►
From YouTube: IETF 108 Plenary
Description
The plenary session from IETF 108.
A
A
When
we
have
the
open
mic
sessions,
we'll
be
running
the
queue
as
normal
from
same
same
process
as
the
group
sessions,
please
only
send
audio
when
you're
recognized
in
the
queue
and
then
turn
it
off
when
you're
finished
and
state
your
name
and
affiliation
when
you're
recognized
and
we
strongly
recommend
a
headset.
If
you
have
one,
you
can
check
out
the
participant
meeting
guide
for
more
details
next
slide.
Please.
A
So
our
agenda
for
today
we'll
have
brief,
welcome
and
appreciation,
and
then
some
updates
from
myself
from
myria
for
the
iab
column,
for
the
irtf,
barbara,
for
the
nom-com
and
jay
and
jason,
will
provide
an
ietf
llc
update
next
slide.
Please
and
then
we'll
have
the
three
open
microphone
sessions
first
for
the
administration,
llc
then
for
the
ihg
and
finally
for
the
iab
next,
so
first,
I
just
wanted
to
say
a
huge
thank
you
to
our
meeting
host
erickson.
A
This
is
not
obviously
our
typical
meeting
and
we've
been
incredibly
thankful
to
have
the
ongoing
support
of
erickson,
even
though
we
couldn't
all
get
together
in
madrid
this
time
and
it's
just
been
great
to
have
their
their
continued
support,
even
though
we
had
to
change
format
so
big
thanks
to
erickson
for
serving
as
our
host
and
for
for
being
one
of
our
global
hosts.
A
A
A
large
number
of
people
who
came
together
to
provide
us
with
the
tools
that
we
needed
in
order
to
be
able
to
meet
in
this
this
format
and
make
everything,
work
and
and
be
just
incredibly
responsive
to
the
many
corner
cases
and
detailed
needs
that
our
community
has.
So
it's
it's
been
a
great
effort.
Thank
you
very
much
next.
A
A
A
Next,
so
here
at
itf
108,
we
have
1051
on-site
participants,
that's
some
people
who
have
registered
for
the
meeting.
A
Last
week
we
ran
the
hackathon,
mostly
asynchronously,
and
we
had
295
hackathon
registrations,
so
both
of
those
numbers
are
are
pretty
close
to
what
we
normally
get
for
an
in-person
meeting,
which
is
nice
because
of
the
nature
of
this
meeting
that
we
still
have
people
who
can
register
during
the
week
and
show
up-
and
we
didn't
want
to
give
only
a
partial
attendance
report.
We
will
be
publishing
the
detailed
attendance
statistics
after
the
meeting
is
over.
A
A
B
A
Okay,
sorry,
I
was
just
silently
had
my
audio
and
video
revoked,
so
so
for
reporting
issues
in
real
time
with
respect
to
meat
echo.
Oh
thanks,
you
can
use
the
tickets
email
address
and
those
will
be
tracked
and
there's
a
there's,
a
url
on
our
on
our
reporting
page,
where
you
can
go
see
all
the
tickets
and
for
jabra
there's
the
mtd
at
ietf.org
address.
So
that's
like
if
you're
having
difficulty
during
the
meeting,
please
file
a
ticket
and
you
will
get
a
response
if
you,
oh,
let's
stick
on
short-term
planning
yeah.
A
So
if
you
have
more
longer
term
feature
requests
for
the
platform,
please
take
those
to
tools.
Discuss,
there's
already
robust
discussion
over
there
about
features
that
people
would
like
to
see
things
that
people
don't
like
and
so
on.
Please
be
respectful,
but
share
your
your
feedback
about
the
tools
on
tools,
discuss
and
that's
anything
to
do
with
the
mean
echo
platform
or
the
data
tracker
integration
for
other
planning
aspects
for
ietf
109.
A
We
have
we're
planning
to
use
the
same
assessment
criteria
that
we
used
last
time
to
make
a
decision
about
whether
we
can
run
the
meeting
in
person
versus
online
and
planning
to
use
the
same
meeting
fee
structure
as
well,
but
these
are
open
for
consultation
right
now.
So
if
you
have
input
about
those
choices,
please
send
that
to
manycatches.etf.org
and
we'll
take
the
feedback
in
and
adjust.
A
A
How
do
we
decide
about
making
in-person
meeting
cancellations?
How
do
we
plan
for
certain
high-level
aspects
of
the
meeting
if
we
do
take
it
fully
online,
we'll
be
talking
about
functional
technology
requirements,
the
meeting
fees,
the
cadence
of
meetings,
all
of
that
good
stuff?
A
So
if
this
is
something
that
you're
interested
in
again,
if
this
is
a
place
where
you
have,
you
know
constructive
suggestions
for
what
we
should
do
or
what
the
guidelines
should
say
that
can
guide
the
isg
and
the
ietf
llc
as
we
do
the
meeting
planning,
then
please
join
the
mailing
list.
Write
a
draft
come
to
the
meeting
which
is
happening
on
on
friday,
this
friday
at
11
utc.
A
We
also
have
an
activity
going
on
where
the
current
focus
of
the
discussion
is
in
the
gen
dispatch
working
group,
and
this
relates
to
nom-com
eligibility
updates
in
part
motivated
by
the
fact
that
our
current
eligibility
criteria
rely
on
in-person
meetings
and
that's
obviously
creating
difficulties.
A
So
we
we
put
in
sort
of
a
short-term
fix
for
this,
the
nom-com
cycle
this
year,
but
we
need
something
that
is
more
long-lasting
that
can
deal
with
the
the
2020
year,
which
is
obviously
shaping
up
to
be
quite
different
from
from
every
other
year.
So
if
that's
something
that
is
of
interest
to
you,
please
read
the
draft
and
come
to
the
gen
dispatch
meeting,
which
will
be
tomorrow
at
1300.
Utc
next
slide,
please.
A
So
this
we
circulated
to
the
itf
mailing
list
yesterday,
but
I
wanted
to
get
it
in
front
of
people
because
it
has
a
has
a
new
deadline
in
it.
So
we're
changing
the
process
a
little
bit
for
birds
of
a
feather
request.
We're
experimenting.
C
A
Change
in
process
in
this
next
cycle.
So
what
we're
asking
is
that
by
september
18th
that
we
want
to
hear
from
buff
proponents
in
the
ihd
would
like
to
hear
from
boss
proponents.
If
you're
planning
to
propose
a
buff,
you
don't
have
to
have
your
complete
proposal
done
by
september
18th,
but
please
send
email
to
the
ihg
and
post
an
entry
in
the
buff
wiki
by
that
date.
A
If
you
are
even
thinking
about
proposing
a
buff
and
then
we're
going
to
take
the
two
weeks
after
that
to
have
the
ads
work
with
the
proponents
to
refine
their
proposals.
What
we
found
in
past
cycles
is
that
we're
really
time
crunched
between
the
the
deadline
when
we
ask
for
the
complete
proposals
and
when
we
have
to
approve
or
decline
them
for
scheduling
purposes,
so
we're
trying
to
give
ourselves
a
little
bit
more
time
to
work
with
the
community
to
make
the
proposals
better
and
and
hopefully
get
more
high
quality
buffs
scheduled.
A
So
we're
going
to
take
two
weeks
to
do
that
and
then
october
2
is
the
deadline
for
complete
requests
to
be
posted
to
the
boss,
fookie
and
that's
the
same
deadline
that
was
previously
announced
in
the
important
dates
and
we'll
take
a
week
to
to
figure
out
which
ones
we
approve
for
scheduling.
A
So
that's
a
bit
of
a
change,
and
hopefully
the
extra
time
will
help
us
have
better
buff
sleep
next
time.
Next
slide,
please
so!
There's
more
information
covered
online
we've
had
two
appeals
in
the
last
cycle.
You
can
go,
read
both
the
appeals
and
the
response
text
and
there's
lots
more
reports
from
many
of
the
other
groups
involved
in
the
ietf
that
you
can
find
on
the
meeting
materials
page
and
we
post
semi-regular,
updates
to
the
itf
blog
as
well
next,
and
I
will
turn
it
over
to
miria
for
the
iab
update.
B
Evening,
given
this
give
it
such
a
time
for
some
people,
I
will
keep
it
very
brief.
If
we
go
to
the
next
slide,
yeah,
that's
kind
of
the
same
slate,
so
one
word
yeah,
so
we
already
submitted
the
iab
report
with
all
the
reporting
on
the
more
administrative
tasks
to
the
proceedings
of
this
meeting.
B
So
you
can
just
go
there
and
have
a
look
and
read
everything,
but
this
I
would
like
to
use
the
opportunity
to
also
cover
some
of
the
new
and
ongoing
things
we
are
doing
in
the
idea-
and
this
is
three
things:
the
iboga
meeting
we
held
yesterday
already
and
some
upcoming
program
proposal
workshop
and
quick
thanks
to
everybody
who
serves
as
an
appointee.
Let's
go
on
the
next
slide.
B
Yes,
so
yesterday
we
had
a
new
thing,
which
is
called
the
ib
open
meeting.
It
already
happened
yesterday
you
can
watch
the
recordings,
but
the
idea
here
really
was
just
to
provide
an
for
our
forum
for
more
interaction
with
the
community
from
like
two
angles.
B
One
thing
is:
we
want
to
provide
information
to
the
community
about
the
things
we
are
doing
right
now
in
the
iab,
focusing
on
the
technical
and
architecture
work
we
do
in
the
iab
and
then
we
would
also
like
to
use
this
form
to
get
input
from
the
community
on
the
work
we
are
doing
and
have
some
more
interactive
communication.
Then
we
could
have
my
mailing
store
somewhere
else.
B
So
what
we
had
yesterday
was
discussing
a
couple
of
ib
drafts
or
one
actually
having
workshops
and
programs.
B
You
can
check
the
agenda
and
if
you
have
any
feedback
on
this
session,
please
send
it
directly
to
us
to
the
ib
at
ib
ib
at
ib.org,
or
you
can
also
use
the
architecture
discuss
list
for
any
public
discussion
with
the
community
and
with
us.
Of
course,
we
also
just,
I
believe.
Generally,
people
found
this
positive,
but
I'm
happy
to
hear
more
feedback
next
slide,
then
about
some
ongoing
offered
efforts.
B
So
that's
one
thing
you
want
to
know
about
maybe-
and
the
other
thing
is
a
quick
announcement
for
a
workshop.
We
are
planning
for
november.
This
workshop
will
be
virtual
and
it's
covering
things
we
we
want
to
discuss
based
on
the
on
the
crisis.
We've
been
seeing
right
now,
where
we
see
like
this
increase
in
network
traffic.
E
Hi,
my
name
is
colin
perkins.
I'm
the
irdf
should
go
to
the
next
slide.
Please,
okay,
next
one,
please,
okay,
so
the
isf
is
the
the
research
arm
of
the
ietf
is
here
to
do
research
rather
than
develop
standards.
E
The
rtf
is
organized
as
a
set
of
research
groups
that
the
slide
lists
the
sets
of
active
research
groups.
We
have
those
in
blue
are
meeting
this
week.
I
think
the
most
of
them
are
already
only
the
the
computation
and
network
group
is
still
sweet,
but
but
do
look
out
for
the
meetings
and
and
pleased
to
participate
if
you're
not
familiar
with
the
way
that
irtf
works
and
how
it
differs
from
the
etf.
E
We
also
have
rfc
7418,
which
talks
about
the
differences
between
the
organizations
and
a
primer
for
the
etf
participants.
Next
slide,
please.
E
E
This
is
an
academic
research
workshop
that
we
organize
in
conjunction
with
acm
sitcom
this
year.
It's
happening
tomorrow
and
friday,
co-located
with
with
the
itf
I'm
running,
alongside
all
the
the
ietf
and
iff
meetings,
the
chair
of
the
workshop
miria
and
ryland
this
year.
They've
done
a
really
good
job
and
to
give
a
really
interesting
program.
E
If
you
look
at
the
the
url
on
the
slide,
you'll
find
all
the
papers
links
to
all
the
papers
on
on
that
website
papers
are
all
available.
You
can
access
in
the
acm
digital
library,
and
I
would
very
much
encourage
you
to
have
a
look,
read
the
papers
and
consider
joining
the
sessions
later
in
the
week
next
slide.
Please.
E
The
applied
networking
research
process
is
something
we
do
in
conjunction
with
the
internet
society,
with
sponsorship
from
comcast
and
nbc
universal,
and
it's
awarded
for
recent
results
in
applied
networking
research
that
are
relevant
potentially
for
transitioning
into
ship
products
and
related
standards
efforts.
E
There
were
three:
a
rp
prize-winning
talks
yesterday
from
banno
talking
about
her
work
on
developing
a
taxonomy
of
internet
likeness
cherry
talking
about
dns
over
encryption,
with
some
measurements
of
dns
over
tls
and
dns
over
https
and
from
igma
talking
about
traffic
engineering
and
steering
hyper
giant
traffic
looks
three
really
nice
talks.
I'd
encourage
you
to
watch
the
recordings
which
are
on
the
ietf
youtube
channel.
E
In
addition,
the
nominations
for
the
arp
awards
for
2021
will
open
in
just
a
few
weeks.
On
the
1st
of
september,
a
nomination
deadline
is
22nd
of
november
immediately
after
the
itf1
owning
meeting.
E
If
you've
read
any
good
applied
networking
research
papers
recently,
I
would
very
much
encourage
you
to
nominate
the
the
url
on
the
website.
We'll
have
details
from
the
first
of
november.
A
A
F
Okay
thanks,
so
the
nomcom
has
started
its
work
next
slide.
Please
we
had
our
first
call
last
week
and
this
is
who
the
seated
members
are.
We
had
some
fun
with
our
seating.
You
know
we
did
have
a
couple
of
challenges
come
through,
which
I
have
survived.
Thankfully,
and
if
you
have
further
questions
about
that,
you
can
always
go
on
to
the
ietf
list.
F
You
know
in
your
spare
time
and
and
when
you
just
want
to
have
a
little
fun
and
read
all
about
that,
but
I
think
this
is
going
to
be
a
fabulous
group
of
people,
I'm
really
thrilled
that
all
these
people
are
on
the
nom-com
this
year.
F
They
just
keep
growing,
although
I
think
it
right
now
it's
the
same
as
what
victor
had
last
year,
but
it
is
certainly
quite
a
few
and
we
are
going
to
be
starting
our
meetings
next
week
to
get
things
going
with
questionnaires
and
making
sure
we
understand
what
all
the
the
expectations
are
for
each
of
these
seats,
and
you
know
this
week,
I've
been
meeting
with
people
during
nom-com
office
hours.
So
next
slide,
please.
F
So
what
one
of
the
things
we
did
do
during
our
first
meeting
is
that
our
schedule?
There
are
a
couple
of
dates.
I
really
want
to
highlight
for
people
on
the
call
of
number
for
nominations.
We
are
expecting
to
have
start
on
august
25th,
with
questionnaires
available
on
september
1st.
F
Now
the
interviews
and
the
office
hours
I'd
like
to
call
your
attention
to
those
dates.
There
are
two
weeks
set
now
for
the
nominee
interviews.
We
intend
to
spread
them
across
the
two
weeks
prior
to
ietf
109,
whatever
format
or
wherever,
however,
that
one
may
be
held,
we
will
be
holding
the
interviews.
The
two
weeks
before
we
do
realize.
One
of
those
weeks
is
a
vacation,
a
common
vacation
week
for
many
people,
but
that's
why
we
have
two
weeks
so
hopefully
that
will
meet
people's
needs.
F
We
will
be
having
interview
slots
that
are
throughout
the
24-hour
day
period.
F
Our
nom-com
members
are
from
a
wide
range
of
time
zones
themselves,
and
so
we're
going
to
try
to
have
interview
slots
where
both
the
nom
com,
interviewer
and
the
nominee
are
awake
at
the
same
time,
and
we
think
this
is
completely
doable
in
our
new
view
virtual
world,
and
we
expect
to
be
doing
our
interviews
by
webex
the
office
hours
and
request.
For
you
know,
private
office
hours
during
that
period
of
time
is
going
to
actually
be
three
weeks.
F
F
F
Yes,
we
were
randomly
selected,
but
we
are
your
randomly
selected
group
of
people
and
we
really
need
to
represent
the
community
and
the
way
we
can
best
represent
the
community
as
we
if
we
hear
from
the
community
and
if
the
community
members
actually
stand-
and
you
know
even
if
you're
going
up
against
an
incumbent.
I
have
to
say
you
know
myself
that
just
the
experience
of
standing
as
a
nominee
is
incredible.
F
F
F
So
here's
some
information
about
us.
I
don't
want
to
be
some
aloof,
ietf
nom-com.
We
are
not
aloof.
We
are
your
nom-com
and
you
know
again.
I
can't
stress
strongly
enough
that
we
really
need
for
you
to
come
and
talk
to
us.
The
data
tracker
is
where
I'm
going
to
be
trying
to
keep
the
nom
com
2020
page
up
to
date,
with
information
about.
What's
going
on
with
us,
the
our
schedule
is
there
all
of
the
people
are
there.
We
currently
have
one
office
hour
still
for
this
week.
F
I
set
three
our
first
office
hour
was
we
actually
had
several
people
come
by
and
provide
some
input
as
to
qualities
they
would
like
to
see
in
some
of
the
positions.
You
know
that
they
would
like
the
nom-com
to
consider
when,
when
screening
candidates
and
things
like
that-
and
we
had
people
asking
questions
about
numcom
and
what
it
takes
and
things
and
and
such,
and
so
we've
got
the
one
office
hour
left
on
thursday.
F
I
did
try
to
set
the
three
office
hours
at
various
times
of
the
day
so
that
they
were
spread
widely
apart,
so
that
people
from
various
regions
again,
I
really
want
to
try
to
be
inclusive
and
to
be
able
to
represent
the
entire
ietf
community
and
if
you
need
more
from
your
nom
com,
just
drop
me
a
note.
F
You
know:
there's
the
numcom
I've
been
hanging
out
and
gather
and
I've
been
having
various
random
conversations
where
people
you
know,
even
though
it's
not
office
hours
when
they
find
me
there,
some
of
them
bend
my
ear
about
nom
com,
and
that
is
fine.
So
just
talk
to
me,
people,
okay
and
I've-
already
mentioned
about
the
109
office
hours.
So
next
slide,
I
think,
is
my
thank
you.
Oh
yeah
right.
So
let's
make
this
it's
a
special
year
already,
but
let's
try
and
put
a
positive
spin
on
it.
F
Let's
see
how
we
can
make
it
special
in
a
way
that
really
makes
things
better.
I
would
love
to
see
more
nominees
and
more
feedback
and
I'd
really
love
to
see
more
diversity
in
what
we
have
coming
at
us.
From
the
nominees
being
diverse
from
the
feedback
coming
from
people
all
around,
just
I
want
to
hear
from
you
one
way
or
another.
Thank
you
everybody.
I
appreciate.
G
Hello
everyone,
so
my
name
is
jay
daly,
I'm
the
ietf
executive
director,
I'm
going
to
do
first,
half
of
the
ietf
administration,
llc
presentation
with
the
llc
board,
chair,
jason,
living
good
doing
the
second
part
next
slide,
please
and
next
slide
again.
So,
first
of
all,
I'd
like
to
thank
the
itf
108
host
ericsson-
it's
been
very
it.
G
For
that
next
slide,
please,
we've
had
akamai
as
our
silver
sponsor,
who
have
been
very
good
again
carrying
on
their
sponsorship
with
us,
and
I
can
continue
their
hackathon
sponsorship
we're
at
the
stage
now,
where
all
our
sponsors
recognize
the
value
that
they
get
from
an
online
meeting
compared
to
new
personal
meetings,
so
we're
managing
to
roll
quite
well
with
our
sponsors
through
to
this
meeting
now
next
slide,
please,
and
for
this
particular
meeting
we
had
two
new
sets
of
sponsors.
G
Firstly,
the
fee
waiver
sponsors,
google,
fastly
and
future
way,
so
thanks
to
them,
who've
enabled
us
to
pay
for
large
numbers
of
the
free
notebook
waivers
which
we'll
be
talking
about
in
a
minute
and
for
google
cloud
developer
relations,
who
have
sponsored
the
google
cloud
service
that
we're
using
that
meet.
Echo
is
currently
running
in
so
thank
you
to
those
of
you
as
well.
Next
slide,
please,
our
equipment
sponsors
give
extraordinary
generously
to
us,
cisco
and
juniper.
Thank
you
very
much
for
that.
G
It's
always
very
nice
to
have
new
equipment
come
every
three
years
to
maintain
things
next
slide.
Please,
and
so
there
are
two
local
sponsors
from
madrid
who
I
want
to
thank,
who
put
an
enormous
amount
of
work
in,
even
though
we
haven't
used
them
now,
the
ipv6
company
or
geordi,
as
many
of
you
know
and
cult
who
were
putting
circuits
in
for
us
and
things.
So.
Thank
you
both
very
much,
even
though
we
didn't
use
you,
you
put
a
lot
of
work
in
and
we
recognize
that
next
slide.
Please.
G
So
I'm
not
going
to
read
out
all
of
the
names,
but
I
thought
it
was
important
for
you
to
see
just
how
many
people
are
involved
in
this
both
on
the
volunteer
side
here
on
this
slide
and
not
next
slide
in
terms
of
staff
and
contractors.
So
thank
you
very
much
to
all
of
these
people.
G
G
So
ietf
109
is
currently
planned
for
bangkok
and
that
will
be
hosted
by
cisco.
Thank
you
very
much.
As
alyssa
has
explained
earlier,
we
have
a
process
underway
to
determine
whether
or
not
that
can
carry
on
as
an
in-person
meeting
or
whether
we
need
to
switch
that
to
an
online
meeting.
G
We
will
find
out
about
that
as
people
give
us
feedback
and
as
then
we
didn't
do
the
assessment
in
late
august
next
slide.
Please.
G
And
finally,
I
want
to
thank
all
of
our
global
hosts
who
so
for
those
of
you
who
don't
know
a
global
host
signs
up
to
a
multi-year
contract
with
us
six
or
nine
years.
They
give
us
money
every
year
throughout
that
and
they
host
a
number
of
meetings
as
part
of
that,
and
they
have
been
very
helpful
in
well,
we
get
enormous
amount
of
funding
from
them.
We
couldn't
run
the
meetings
without
them.
So
thank
you
to
cisco,
comcast,
nbc,
universal
ericsson,
huawei,
juniper
and
nokia.
G
Thank
you
next
slide.
Please.
So
here
are
our
future
meeting
locations
and
venues.
We
have
itf
109
coming
up
next
in
bangkok,
as
mentioned
march
next
year,
is
itf
110
in
prague,
then
san
francisco,
which
is
a
a
re-scheduled
meeting
from
a
previous
meeting
and
then
112
in
madrid,
which
is
where
we're
rescheduling
this
meeting
to
we're
keeping
113
open
in
case.
G
We
need
to
shift
bangkok
to
there
and
then
we
have
philadelphia
in
for
114,
and
if
you
are
interested
in
sponsoring
a
meeting,
then
please
contact
us
and
open
up
your
checkbooks
fantastic
next
slide,
please.
G
So
these
are
the
registration
numbers.
As
of
yesterday,
when
we're
preparing
the
slides
so
they're,
not
as
up-to-date
as
the
ones
alyssa
gave
you
and
they're
broken
down
by
the
type
of
ticket
that
we
have,
and
you
can
see
the
budget
that
we
have
there
as
well.
So,
for
example,
we
had
we
budgeted
for
500
early
birds
and
we
had
485
so
the
it's
roughly
within
line
with
our
budgeting.
G
Here,
we've
exceeded
the
number
of
registered
slightly
so,
which
is
very
pleasing,
but
it's
good
news
for
us
in
terms
of
the
financial
viability
of
an
online
meeting
that
has
worked
out
very
well
next
slide.
G
Please
now,
as
a
bit
of
transparency,
I've
put
in
here
some
details
about
the
things
that
I'm
doing
as
the
itf
executive
director
and
you
probably
guess
much
of
my
work
has
been
on
number
two
on
this:
manage
the
impact
of
code
19
and
switch
to
a
fully
online
meeting,
I'm
still
relatively
new,
and
I
still
don't
get
out
to
meet
any
of
you
because
we're
all
in
isolated
countries,
and
so
the
community
engagement
support,
is
still
a
big
part
of
my
work
here
and
there
are
some
other
things
that
I'm
working
on
there.
G
So
that's
for
me
and
I'm
going
to
head
over
to
jason
for
the
next
numbers.
It
feels
like
we've
still
got
a
very
large
number
of
people
participating.
So
this
is
it's
not
as
though
we've
lost
anything
by
people
switching
to
fee
waivers
or
anything
like
that,
and
it's
been
fine
to
administer
brilliant,
reasonably
straightforward
and
we
haven't
done
any
form
of
checking
or
analysis
to
see.
If
anybody
has
could
have
done
something
else.
We've
just
accepted
people
on
their
word,
for
it.
H
Yeah
and
I
think
it'll
be
interesting
as
we
do
the
post-meeting
survey
particularly
to
see
if
there
are
any
questions
that
might
be
interesting,
especially,
are
those
new
participants.
Are
they
new
to
the
itf
and
so
on?
So
thanks
other
questions
from.
I
G
I'll
pick
that
up
then
jason,
it's
a
good
question
jim.
So
our
our
assessment
process
is
effective
to
step
one
where
we
determine
whether
or
not
it's
viable
for
the
meeting
to
go
ahead
and
then
the
iesg
determines
whether
there
are
sufficient
numbers
for
people
to
go
ahead.
I
haven't
done
extensive
work.
G
Well
any
work,
particularly
on
what
the
numbers
would
be
if
we
went
ahead
with
an
in-person
meeting,
yet
that's
part
of
the
assessment
process
that
I
do
at
the
end
of
august
and
that's
when
I
would
have
a
better
answer
for
that
question
because
that's
when
we
look
at
travel
bans
and
various
other
things
like
that,.
I
G
H
Yeah
thanks
you
but
jim.
You
know
good
point
about
employer
travel.
You
know.
I
know
many
companies
that
send
itf
participants
to
meetings
have
travel
restrictions
in
place,
so
that
may
be
a
factor
and
of
course
we're
seeing
a
lot
of
resurgence
globally.
H
So
we'll
see,
looks
like
we've
got
another
person
in
queue.
J
Fantastic,
it's
it's
also
related
to
ief
109,
just
really
two
quick
points
which
first
is
just
adding
to
jim's
point
at
the
moment.
I'm
concerned
about
the
availability
of
travel
insurance.
J
So
even
if
it's
possible
to
go
if
I
think
it
might
be
quite
challenging
to
get
travel
insurance,
which
I
think
will
be
an
issue
for
some
of
us
and
also
I've
noticed,
as
I'm
sure
you
have
that
we're
starting
to
see
some
pretty
big
high-profile
events
for
early
next
year.
Moving
to
virtual,
you
would
have
seen
that
I'm
sure
the
notice
about
ces
in
january
going
to
be
virtual.
So
I
personally,
I
think
the
the
practicalities
of
doing
face-to-face
events
in
november
are
extremely
questionable.
H
Very
good
point:
thanks
for
the
input,
looks
like
we've
got
another
person
in
the
queue.
K
H
K
I
I
do
love
this
meet
echo
tool,
though
really
my
question
is:
let's
assume
maybe
we
have.
We
have
uncertainty
about
different
people's
travel,
or
maybe
some
people
just
really
liked
the
really
intensive
online.
Can
we
consider?
Maybe
you
already
have
said
this,
having
a
full-on
meetup
me
that
go
presence
that
empowers
the
remote
people
as
well
as
in
person.
G
Yeah,
I
think
that
is
probably
tied
up
into
the
work
going
on
in
shmoo
about
what
people
want
for
online
meetings,
even
though
it's
related
to
in
person.
I'm
not
I'm,
not.
I'm
not
convinced
that
it's
sensible
for
us
in
the
llc
to
go
ahead
and
start
making
some
decisions
about
the
meeting
process
in
that
way
or
the
meeting
experience
in
that
way.
That's
something
more
for
the
isg
and
others
to
do,
and
that's
the
the
process
currently
is
to
go
through
that.
So
tweaks
and
other
things.
Yes.
L
H
Just
to
to
add
to
that
I
mean,
I
think
it's
certainly
the
case
whether
you
look
at
our
online
meeting
tools
or
other
online
collaboration
tools.
I
think
everyone's
expectations
as
a
result
of
working
remotely
from
the
pandemic
have
really
increased
quite
a
bit,
and
so
you
know
it's
important
for
us
to
step
up
our
tooling,
and
I
do
want
to
make
a
mention
here
of
the
meat
echo
team.
I
mean
that
the
work
that
they've
done
has
been
phenomenal
and
you
know
really
really
appreciate.
H
You
know
the
quick
development
and
turn
around
on
a
lot
of
the
features.
So
really
nice
work.
A
Please,
please
go
home
yeah,
so
I'm
just
going
to
say
allison
that
there's
like
a
really
wide
array
of
opinions
about
this
question,
which
is
just
to
reinforce
what
she
said
like
why
the
schmute
process
is
so
important,
like
there's
people
who
never
want
to
have
a
plenary
meeting
again
and
then
all
the
way
to
like
you
know,
emphasizing
the
face
to
face
and
sort
of
the
the
model
that
we
were
going
with
before
and
everything
in
between.
A
So
we
really
need
to
kind
of
try
to
coalesce
around
what
the
model
or
models
is
that
the
bulk
of
the
community
is
interested
in
because
in
in
the
absence
of
that,
we
just
have
to
like
make
a
guess
or
make
a
choice
one
way
or
the
other.
Without
you
know,
having
a
good
sense
of
what
the
community
wants.
H
Queue
doesn't
look
like
it,
so
I
think
thank
you
very
much
appreciate
your
time
for
the
llc
q.
A
period
move
on
to
the
next.
A
A
All
right
thanks,
so
the
next
one
is
going
to
be
the
iesg
and
we're
going
to
do
a
quick
round
of
introductions.
Just
so
people
can
hear
our
voices
and
and
see
our
faces,
hopefully
so
alvaro
go.
A
E
A
Yes,
I'm
I
apologize
if
I
didn't
actually
respond
to
your
email,
because
that
is
being
actively
investigated,
we're
trying
to
figure
out
what
the
problem
is
on
our
side,
so.
R
A
T
Next,
hello
there,
so
I
noticed
a
thread
on
the
ietf
list.
That's
gotten
kind
of
long.
I
don't
know
if
anyone
else
has
noticed
that
thread.
So
a
couple
of
quick
things.
First,
john,
I
think
made
a
comment
on
the
list
that
the
last
minute
nature
of
the
iasg
statement
was
probably.
K
T
And
a
request
that
folks
who
are
participating
in
that
thread
take
a
beat
and
remain
a
little
calm.
It's
it's
a
controversial
topic.
It's
bound
to
get
snippy,
and
so
people
need
to
be
a
little
more
empathetic
with
others
and
maybe
talk
to
folks
offline
and
not
assume
that
they're
just
being
idiots.
T
We've
heard
this
and
here's
what
we've
heard
of
the
conversation,
because
without
that
people
have
a
tendency
to
repeat
themselves
and
repeat
themselves
and
it's
become
non-useful
and
for
some
folks
unreadable,
and
I
hope
that
we
could
get
that
in
the
future.
T
A
Pete-
and
I
think
that
was
pete
resnick
for
for
people
who
couldn't
discern,
if
you
can
say
your
name
when
you
come
to
the
mic,
that's
that's
helpful,
so
I'll
just
give
my
own
response
and
let
other
people
chime
in.
But
from
my
perspective
I
haven't
seen
the
message
about
the
statement
being
last
minute,
but
I
frankly
think
it's
like
decades
overdue.
So
I
don't
find
it
to
be
last
minute
at
all.
A
We
should
have
done
it
a
lot
a
long
time
ago
and
it
wasn't
really
in
relation
to
the
meeting.
T
Just
to
comment
on
that
alyssa,
it
wasn't
a
question
of
whether
it
should
have
been
done
sooner
or
later,
but
more
that
three
days
before
the
ietf
meeting
made
it
such
that
it
sort
of
blew
up,
and
there
was
a
lot
of
other
things
going
on,
not
not
that
it
shouldn't
have
been
as
soon
as
possible.
That's
exactly
right
it.
T
It
is
that
it's
quite
a
bit
too
late,
but
just
that
timing,
it
right
near
the
meeting
was,
was
tricky
and
made
the
conversation
and
I
think,
iasg
involvement
in
that
conversation
harder.
That's
all.
A
Okay,
I
mean
I,
I
still.
I
feel
that
people
maybe
need
to
reread
the
statement,
because
the
first
paragraph
is
like
a
statement
of
what
the
ihg
believes,
and
I
understand
that
there's
like
lots
of
effort
to
try
to
influence
us
about
what
we
believe,
but
it's
just
a
statement
of
belief
and
if
people
wanted
to
comment
on
that,
that's
that's
you
know
their
prerogative,
but
it
wasn't
necessarily
like
inviting
us
to
comment
back.
A
It's
just
a
statement
of
our
belief
and
the
second
paragraph
talks
about
like
welcoming
you
know
further
discussion
in
the
community
in
a
you
know,
in
the
structured
way
that
we
have
it
towards
the
draft
in
gen
dispatch.
A
So
I
can
appreciate
that
there's
nothing
that
we
can
do
to
prevent
people
from
starting
a
threat
on
ietf
at
iatf.
A
Q
A
J
I
would
apologize,
but
I
just
want
to
go
back
to
the
point
that
pete
made
the
timing
of
pushing
out
that
statement.
Just
literally
just
a
handful
of
days
before
an
ietf
meeting
was
especially
unhelpful,
given
it
was
quite
predictable.
The
volume
of
responses
it
generated,
which
meant
that
the
volume
of
the
noise
coming
from
the
various
mailing
lists
quickly
became
unmanageable.
J
U
I
think
it's
going
to
be
a
noise
fest,
no
matter
when
it
happens
and
having
it
just
when
people's
minds
are
focused
on
the
itf
and
publications
of
documents,
it
seems
reasonable
to
me
yeah,
it's
going
to
be
unfortunate.
Whenever
it
is.
I
speak
from
experience
thanks.
C
Yeah,
just
as
a
jabber
scribe,
there's
a
couple
of
there's
two
questions.
I
see
in
the
in
the
chat
room.
The
most
recent
one
is
the
rfc
editor
has
a
long
backlog
who
will
fix
that,
and
there
was
a
previous
one
that
I've
lost
in
the
chat.
But
it
was
a
question
about
the
nom-com.
Are
all
the
incumbents
running
again.
C
The
generally,
the
by
the
time,
the
requests
go
out
for
volunteers
for
the
nom-com
selected
positions.
C
Some
of
us
have
declared
whether
we'll
be
standing
again
or
not,
and
the
non-com
chair
will
announce
that
with
the
solicitation
of
volunteers,
sometimes
people
sometimes
incumbents
decide
after
people
have
started
to
put
their
names
in,
but
generally
the
nom-com
chair
lets
the
community
know
as
soon
as
the
the
incumbents
have
declared
whether
they'll
be
standing
again
and
I'll
say.
For
me.
I
do
not
intend
to
stand
for
art
a.d
again
and
I
hope
the
art
area
will
put
forth
a
number
of
good
candidates,
including
the
ones
who
stood
last
time.
A
Thanks
barry
so
to
the
first
question:
there's
a
few
compounding
factors
that
have
affected
the
the
length
of
the
rfc
editor's
queue.
The
main
one
that's
still
in
play
right
now
is
something
called
cluster
238,
which
is
the
group
of
40
or
so
documents
that
are
defining
the
webrtc
protocol
suite
and
have
a
web
of
interdependencies
that
have
caused
them
to
all
hit.
The
publication
queue
at
once
so
about
half
of
those
are
finished
with
off
48
and
about
half
of
them
still
need
to
complete
off
48.
A
So
hopefully,
when
that
cluster
is
done
well,
certainly
like
the
length
of
the
queue
in
terms
of
the
number
of
documents
will
be
dramatically
shortened
when
all
of
those
are
finished,
I
think
optimistically
within
by
the
end
of
the
year,
let's
say
so.
That
will
be
a
significant
help.
The
other
thing,
that's
you
know,
ongoing.
A
That's
affecting
the
the
time
in
queue
is
the
transition
to
the
v3
rfc
format,
which
which
started
in
october
of
last
year,
and
I
think
mo
the
bulk
of
the
issues
that
surfaced
with
the
transition
have
been
ironed
out.
But
I
think
if
john
levine
is
with
us,
he
can
he
can
give
more
of
an
update
when
the
iab
comes
on,
but
we're
getting
to
the
place
where
we
at
least
know
the
the
length
of
time
that
editing
a
v3
page
of
a
document
takes.
A
L
Okay,
sorry
I'd
like
to
recommend
that
draft
authors
run
their
text
through
a
tool
like
grammarly
or
hemingway
or
prowritingaid
to
get
it
in
pretty
good
shape,
while
it's
being
reviewed
so
that
way,
the
poor
rfc
editor
won't
have
to.
You
know,
go
crazy
with
grammatical
stuff
that
could
have
been
taken
care
of
by
a
piece
of
software,
and
it
might
even
be
a
good
idea
if
the
iesg
would
recommend
some
tools
that
get
to
a
style
that
they
like
to
see.
F
I
just
wanted
to
say
briefly
that
independent
of
whether
or
not
any
of
these
wonderful
people
decide
to
run
again.
F
Well,
maybe
it
would
help
if
I
put
my
microphone
in
front
of
my
mouth.
Thank
you
alyssa.
So,
as
the
nom-com
chair,
I
would
just
like
to
you
know,
encourage
that
independent
of
whether
any
of
these
wonderful
people
will
be
running
again
for
the
iesg.
I
would
love
to
see
people
running
against
them.
Competition
in
things
like
this
is
really
a
good
thing.
F
I
think
it
encourages
us
all
to
be
our
better
selves
and
to
try
to
do
better,
and
so
I
don't
think
people
should
ask
whether
or
not
somebody
else
is
running
before
they
put
their
name
in
the
hat
and
even
if
they
don't
get
the
position
again,
the
experience
is
really
good
to
have
so
thanks.
W
Yes,
I'm
job
describing
for
kathleen
who
asks,
if
anything
is
being
done
to
increase
the
rate
of
output
for
the
iesgq
for
publication.
She
asked
80
review
expectations,
understanding
that
holding
documents
up
holds
up
real
work,
progress,
etc,
and
I
guess
john
also
said
that
some
of
the
rfc
editor
questions
will
happen
in
the
ieb
part.
That
was
asked.
N
Yeah,
so
I
I
know
that,
at
least
for
me,
the
queue
of
documents
for
ad
review
is
getting
pretty
long
and
we
have
been
trying
to
do
some
things
to
speed
that
up.
I
was
able
to
request
that
my
isg
colleagues
take
over
a
few
of
the
documents
that
were
sent
to
me
pretty
shortly
after
they
were
sent
to
me
to
sort
of
short
circuit,
my
very
long
queue
and
get
it
to
someone
who
could
handle
it.
A
lot
quicker
that
seems
to
have
been
pretty
effective.
N
So
I
think
we're
gonna
keep
in
mind
the
ability
to
do
that
in
the
future.
We
have
a
standing
item
on
our
informal
pillow
chats
to
ask
if
there's
any
documents
that
we
should
switch
around,
and
you
know
again
speaking
only
for
myself,
I
expect
to
be
making
better
progress
with
my
own
cue
in
the
coming
months.
C
It's
really
helpful
for
the
document
shepherds
to
keep
up
on
this
also
and
if
we
are
not
responding
quickly
enough,
that's
part
of
what
the
document
shepards
are
supposed
to
be
doing
is
ping
us
and
ask
what
the
delay
is.
If
there's
anything
you
can
do
to
help
us,
and
sometimes
just
the
reminder,
is
what
we
need
to
push
it
up
in
our
queue
and
and
get
it.
A
Q
A
V
You're
muted,
but
I'm
gonna
assume
that
it's
working
david's,
kanaz
google,
just
on
the
topic
of
lengthy
reviews
with
the
isg,
I
would
just
like
to
offer
a
suggestion
for
isg
members.
We
have
I've
had
experience
with
a
bunch
of
documents
where
we've
gotten
like
very
long
and
thorough
review
from
the
isg,
which
is
great
and
helpful,
but
I'm
thinking-
maybe
it
is
not
in
the
best
interest
of
the
ihg
to
spend
so
much
time
on
editorial
comments
on
documents.
V
In
particular,
I've
had
instances
where
one
ad
made
edit
ver,
like
acknowledged
editorial
comments.
I
made
the
changes
and
then
another
ad
met
editorial
comments
that
directly
contradicted
those
changes.
All
that
to
say,
I
think
there
is
value
in
having
the
isg.
You
know,
review
the
documents
and
make
sure,
like
you
know,
for
example,
it
has
valid
security,
but
let's
maybe
shorten
the
reviews
and
not
like
nitpick
everything
editorially.
We
have
the
rfc
editor.
That
can
do
this.
Just
a
thought.
A
N
Ahead,
I'm
not
sure
warren
was
also
trying
to
speak
up
as
well,
but
just
my
own
response
to
david
is
that
I
have
actually
asked
the
rfc
editor
directly,
maybe
a
year
or
two
ago,
about
what
their
stance
is
on
getting
on.
N
I
do
want
to
reiterate
that
you
know
the
isg
ballots
have
a
comment
section
which
is
usually
present
on
most
of
the
things
you
could
email
about.
There's
also,
sometimes
the
discuss
section,
of
course,
which
has
the
blocking
comments,
but
the
comment
section
on
the
ballot
is
explicitly
non-blocking
comments
and
by
putting
remarks
in
there
we're
sort
of
saying
we
are
okay.
N
If
you
completely
ignore
this
some
of
them,
we
may
really
want
you
to
pay
attention
to
and
do
something
in
response
to,
but
if
you
completely
ignore
them
or
you're
not
supposed
to
get
put
out
or
anything
because
of
it,
it
is,
after
all,
just
a
comment.
Q
Yeah,
this
is
warren,
I
mean,
ideally,
things
like
editorial
nets
would
be
caught
in
working
group,
last
call
or
ietf
last
call
or
before
it
hits
the
isg,
but
you
know
I
know
that
my
adhd
ocd
won't
really.
Let
me
just
ignore
a
bunch
of
typos
editorial
things
without
mentioning
them,
but,
as
ben
said
you
know,
most
of
them
do
just
end
up
in
the
comments
section
unless
it's
something
which
is
a
significant
enough
issue
to
be
a
discuss.
Q
There
is
also
the
fact
that
the
rfc
editor
has
a
lot
of
work
to
do
and
there's
a
definite
cost
with
it.
If
we
can
make
the
document
not
have
27
typos
before
it
hits
them,
I
think
that
that's
always
helpful
right.
That's
not
actually
what
exactly
we're
talking
about,
but
there
are
a
lot
of
documents
that
show
up
just
with
monster
big
typos
or
you
know
basically
unreadable
sorry,
I'm
sounding
grumpy.
A
O
So
david,
I
just
wanted
to
acknowledge.
Absolutely
I
mean
one
of
the
things
that
we,
as
the
isd
can
do
better.
A
better
job
on
is
making
sure
that
we
don't
duplicate
feedback,
whether
it
comes
in
discuss
form
or
in
comments,
if
there's
nothing
new
to
add
so
this
is,
I
think,
an
artifact
that
different
isu
members
have
different
workflows
about
whether
they
read
other
people's
comments,
then
they
provide
theirs
or
where
their
starting
point
is,
but
we
can
try
harder
at
that.
That's
fair
thanks.
P
X
Yeah,
yes,
google
bars
are
moving
mark
not
again,
so
I
want
to
follow
on
to
the
last
discussion
ben.
You
said
you,
you
talked
to
the
rfc
editor.
I'd,
encourage
you
to
talk
to
authors,
the
experience
of
an
author,
putting
it
a
document
together
going
through
working
group.
Last
call
then
going
through
ietf.
Last
call
then
going
through
the
rfc.
X
It's
not
really
a
great
experience,
especially
when
the
feedback
comes
in
a
huge
slab
of
an
email
where
you
have
to
go
and
find
the
right
part
of
the
document
to
edit
and
then
affect
that
edit
and
then
go
through
the
whole
thing,
at
least
with
the
rfc
editor,
it's
much
more
automated
and
they
do
the
work
for
you.
I'd
really
encourage
you
to
think
about
what
the
editor
experi
experience
is
here,
especially
since
so
many
working
groups
are
using
more
modern
tools
like
github
and
you
could
give
them
a
pull
request.
Y
X
Example
and
and
the
statement
that
you
know
comments
can
be
ignored.
Yes,
we
I've
heard
that
said
a
number
of
times.
I've
been
working
in
the
itf
now
for
20
years
and
I
still
don't
feel
like.
I
cannot
ignore
comments
from
an
aed
it
just
to
a
new
author
that
just
won't
even
enter
their
mind.
So
I
really
encourage
the
isg
to
think
about
how
the
time
spent
here,
if
we're
really
doing
this
to
save
time
and
money
from
the
rfc
editor,
then
there's
something
really
broken
going
on
and
I
hope
that's
not.
N
N
N
It's
not
really
an
attempt
to
save
the
money
or
time
from
the
rpc
staff.
It's
more
that
I
have
this
problem
where
I
notice
things
and
by
the
time
I've
noticed
the
thing
and
gotten
past
it,
while
I'm
just
reading
for
my
own
comprehension,
the
incremental
time
to
note
it
and
get
it
fixed
is
not
very
much
for
me,
but
I
will
definitely
try
and
consider
the
effect
on
the
authors
in
the
future.
Q
Yeah
this
is
lauren,
I
guess
I'll
largely
just
follow
in
from
what
bob
vincent
once
I've
noticed
in
it.
It's
really
really
hard
not
to
not
to
comment
on
it
and
just
leave
it
live,
but
also
you
might
be
making
a
generalization
there
mark.
I
recently
published
a
document
and
I
got
a
bunch
of
editorial
comments
back
during
isg
review
and
I
thought
they
were
really
helpful
and
friendly.
Q
You
know
I
went
through,
I
integrated
them
almost
always
there's
other
stuff
one
has
to
integrate
after
the
iesg
review,
and
so,
while
I
had
the
document
open
going
through
and
fixing
the
typos
that
I
accidentally
left
in
changing
things
like
dns
revolver
to
dns
resolver,
I
think
was
really
helpful
and
it's
the
sort
of
thing
that
the
rsc
editor
might
miss.
I'd
rather
fix
things
like
that.
While
I've
got
the
document
open
then
end
up
having
narata
because
of
a.
Y
I
wouldn't
reinforce
a
lot
of
what,
what
mark
said
and
and
to
repeat
a
comment
which
has
been
made
in
the
chat,
which
is
that,
when
it's
coming
from
the
isg
trading
comments
that
show
up
in
the
post-glass
call
process,
as
just
comments
ignoring
and
ignoring
them,
is
hard
for
very
experienced
participants
and
probably
impossible
for
newcomers.
Y
But
what
I
wanted
to
say
was
to
make
a
big
suggestion
for
the
ist
to
think
about
25
years
ago,
when
I
was
on
the
is
probably
too
long
for
anybody
else
to
remember.
Y
We
used
to
view
the
isg
catching
problems
which
survived
working
groups
and
last
calls
and
now
document
shepherds
in
between
working
groups.
Last
calls
when
something
got
that
far
and
no
comments
were
arranged
and
the
isg
hadn't
noticed
them.
We
treat
it
as
a
process.
Failure
not
something
to
screen
at
somebody
about,
but
something
to
think
about
what
could
have
been
done
differently,
which
would
have
prevented
the
isg
from
needing
to
catch
and
deal
with
those
comments.
Y
Y
A
re-examination
of
what
caused
the
document
to
get
to
the
isg
in
the
shape
in
which
the
isg
feels
like
they
need
to
make
a
serious
protest.
And
that
applies
equally
well
to
editorial
issues,
to
language
which
we
no
longer
approve
of
and
should
not
have
approved
of
20
years
ago,
or
whether
it's
a
technical
problem.
Just
just
a
suggestion
for
you
to
collectively
think
about.
T
Z
No,
I
I
I'm
not
sure
if
I
needed
to
be
called
or
I
was
moved
to
the
talking
queue.
So
sorry,
yes,
please
begin.
A
Z
So
we
we,
we
have
a
discussion
about.
You
know
the
the
length
of
the
meet
echo
time
slots
on
the
working
group
chairs
mailing
list
and
given
how
they,
I
think,
really
the
time
management
and
how
you
know
the
working
group
chairs
surf
at
the
demand
of
the
isg.
Z
I
think,
would
be
good
for
the
isg
to
start
thinking
about
how,
in
future
virtual
meetings
were,
you
know
managing
the
time
there
right
now
it
was
starting
from
starts
on
the
clock,
ends
on
the
clock
and
then
basically,
people
started
to
argue
for
five
more
minutes,
and
I
think
I'm
I'm
voting
on
the
side
of
having
a
lot
more
leeway
on
that.
That
working
group
chairs
can
ask
you
know
if
people
can
stay
over.
Z
I
mean
it's
not
as
if
the
next
working
group
rushes
in
but
attendees
can
easily
say
no,
we've
got
a
conflict
or
we
don't
have
a
conflict
right.
So
I
think
we
have
a
lot
more
flexibility
nowadays,
but
we're
actually
in
the
tooling
side,
rather
going
the
opposite
way.
So
would
be
great
if,
if
I
isg
could
get
involved,
given
how
it's
probably
good
part
of
your
responsibility
to
manage
that.
A
Yeah
thanks.
I
agree.
I
think
this
is
a
place.
We
can
make
a
lot
of
improvement.
I
do
think
you
know
having
the
the
start
times
fairly.
Strict
is
important
in
terms
of
making
sure
that
everybody
who
wants
to
get
to
a
session
can
get
to
it.
So
I
don't
think
we
want
the
sessions
to
bleed
into
each
other.
Even
if
there's
you
know
a
core
group
who
can
keep
talking,
that's
a
little
bit
exclusionary
towards
people
who
have
another
commitment,
but
yeah.
A
The
the
lead
times
on
other
side
is
is
something
we
need
to
work
on,
and
I
don't
know
I
mean
I
think
we
have
the
feedback
from
the
on
the
working
group
chairs
list
it's
possible.
We
might
add
something
to
the
meeting
survey
just
to
get
a
sense
from
people
of
what
they're
looking
for
so.
Z
Z
Like
when
rooms
are
open
that
people
come
in,
obviously
there
is
no
official
program,
but
all
the
you
know
site
discussion
before
and
then,
if
we
can
stay
afterwards,
at
least
until
you
know,
the
next
meeting
is
officially
scheduled
right
when
their
breaks
and
otherwise
right
there
is
a
total
miss
of
using
the
same
tooling
to
having
ad
hoc.
Z
A
A
Okay,
it
looks
like
sam
is
having
some
difficulty
so
we'll
come
back
to
you
sam.
If
we
can,
if
you
can
get
it
sorted
out
and
we'll
move
on
to.
A
A
Seems
like
we're
having
same
similar
permission
issue
with
ted,
perhaps
people
all
I
see
is
people
like
appearing
and
disappearing
from
the
queue.
AA
It's
finally
working,
it
looks
like
yes,
I
want
to
go
back
to
document
editing,
as
I
think
about
my
own
rfcs.
AA
And
so,
if
authors
don't
want
that
sort
of
editing
to
happen
or
those
sort
of
comments
to
come
in
at
last
call
or
during
isg
review,
my
suggestion
is
that
they
or
their
working
groups
send
us
better
documents
and
do
a
stronger
editing
pass
at
the
working
group.
Even
if
it
means
assigning
an
additional
person
to
edit
the.
AB
All
right,
so
so
at
the
in
the
in-person
meetings,
our
meetings
have
always
been
in.
You
know,
quanta
of
half
hour
so
hour
hour
and
a
half
two
hours
we've
in
this
meeting.
It
was
50
50
minutes
or
100
minutes
instead,
and
I
feel
like
especially
given
the
friction
of
av
troubles.
That's
a
little
tight.
My
group
didn't
need
a
full.
AB
You
know
wouldn't
need
a
full
hour
and
a
half,
so
I
thought
well,
I
guess
I'll
have
to
do
50
minutes,
but
it's
turned
out
to
be
sort
of
tight
for
me.
So
I
think
that
going
forward,
assuming
we're
still
going
to
do
virtual
half
hour
quanta
in
my
opinion,
rather
than
25
minute
quanto,
would
work
better.
Just
as
a
my
personal
opinion.
A
C
A
Okay,
I
guess
if
this
is
about
the
terminology,
draft
maybe
send
an
email
to
gen
dispatch
and-
and
we
can
try
to
follow
it
up
then
did
you
have.
N
Yeah,
if
I
understood
the
question
correctly,
it
was
to
say
that
whenever
we
have
a
new
technology
draft
in
front
of
us,
we
should
take
a
close
look
to
see
if
it
is
defining
new
terms
that
are
not
needed,
that
there
are
existing
terms
that
could
be
used
and
work
just
fine.
I
think
that's
a
perfectly
reasonable
point.
N
We
should
not
define
new
terms
just
because
we
can
and
limit
that
to
just
when
there's
a
particular
need
for
it.
N
A
Isg
no
okay,
john,
is
next.
Y
Y
If
an
ietf
last
call
is
meaningful,
then
people
should
be
reading
these
documents
that
I
had
during
last
call
and
raising
these
terminology
objections
long
before
it
falls
on
the
isg
to
notice
these
things
sort
them
out.
So
I
I
think
we're
we're
putting
too
much
responsibility
in
the
isg,
which
is
making
things
too
burdensome
and
is
best
increasing
stress
on
authors
relative
to
catching
these
things
earlier
and
dealing
with
during
the
normal
course
of
document
development.
N
Y
Especially
for
working
group
documents,
if
it
looks
like
that
those
documents
got
into
last
call
without
adequate
review
and
then
got
no
review
on
the
last
call.
I
would
expect
the
responsibility
director
to
bounce
that
document
before
it
even
goes
into
isd
review.
Now,
that's
an
answer
to
a
little
different
question.
But,
yes,
I
think
we're.
Y
I
think
we
we
are
taking
the
whole
community
is
taking
a
iatf
last
call
much
less
seriously
than
we
did
even
a
decade
ago.
Much
was
a
decade
or
two
and
a
half
and-
and
I
think
we
need
to
try
to
figure
out
a
way
to
emulate
that,
and
if
the
community
doesn't
care
enough
about
a
document
to
carefully
review
it,
then
we
don't
have
ietf
consensus
for
that
document,
no
matter
what
iesg
reviews
or
other
rituals
we
go
to,
and
we
really
need
to
start
taking
that
problem
seriously.
N
Y
A
C
Whether
you
called
on
me-
but
here
I
am
anyway-
this
is
barry
liba,
john,
the
back
when
dinosaurs
roamed,
the
internet.
We
had
people
who
were
we
had
many
fewer
documents
going
into
last
call.
We
had
people
who
were
more
broadly
scoped,
more
people
who
were
more
broadly
scoped.
We
have
a
much
more
focused
group
of
people
now
and
I
think
it
has
been
difficult
to
get
a
lot
of
last
call
comments.
C
C
We
hope
that
most
of
the
work
will
be
done
in
the
working
groups
and
that
last
call
will
surface
a
relatively
small
number
of
comments
that
gives
us
the
cross
area
review,
but
it
is
a
very
difficult
problem
and
I'd
love
to
see
much
more
interaction,
much
more
engagement
in
the
community
with
last
call.
So
I
agree
with
that
part.
Y
Yeah,
I
I
I
don't
think
I
disagree
with
anything
you've
said
and
it's
speaking
as
one
of
the
residual
dinosaurs,
but
at
the
same
time,
when
we
make
very
broad
claims
for
iatf
consensus
that
presumes
an
informed
review
somewhere
and
and
to
the
extent
of
which
we're
not
getting
it.
Y
We're
we're
risking
the
ihs,
digest
credibility
as
well
as
again
putting
far
more
pressure
on
the
isgs
members
to
act
as
as
as
as
overall
supervisors
of
the
technical
quality
of
work,
which
we
can't
reasonably
expect
all
of
them
to
understand
all
the
time,
and
we
need
to
figure
out
a
way
to
work
on
that.
A
little
bit.
Q
Yep
yep,
so
I
mean
there's
not
very
much,
I
can
say
other
than
just
to
agree
with
barry
and
john.
The
problem
is
from
looking
at
our
consensus
processes.
There's
a
you
know.
You
have
to
make
sure
that
all
of
the
outstanding
comments
are
addressed.
There's
very
little.
Q
That
says
that
there
has
to
be
a
good,
strong
show
of
support
or
how
one
judges
that
level
of
support
actually
recently
went
through
to
try
and
find
you
know
a
document
that
says
you
need
at
least
n
people
saying
that
this
is
a
good
idea
or
you
know
very
strong
levels
of
support,
and
I
couldn't
find
that
document
in
order
to
point
so
a
if
somebody
has
that
that
would
be
really
helpful
and
b.
Q
Maybe
we
need
to
change
our
world
view
so,
instead
of
it's
not
there's
consensus
when
you've
addressed
all
of
the
outstanding
comments
and
everybody's
know,
you
know
everybody
stopped
complaining
to.
We
need
much
stronger
shows
of
support
from
a
working
group
before
the
chairs
are
sort
of
willing
to
send
the
document
forward
and
more
you
know,
a
lack
of
comments
in
ietf
last
call
does
not
mean
that
there's
consensus,
it
either
means
that
nobody's
read
the
document,
or
maybe
everybody
fully
agrees,
but
that
seems
unlikely.
Q
A
S
Thanks
the
techo
meetings
have
been
going
really
well,
and
I've
been
really
impressed
with
them.
Just
a
quick
question
about
the
the
virtual
hum:
is
there
like
a
minimum
number
of
people
that
need
to
participate
or
minimum
volume
or
and
also
how
are
people
finding
it
in
general,
because
I've
there's
been
a
couple
where
people
are
not
quite
sure
what
to
do
thanks.
P
P
P
P
A
Okay,
I
think
we
lost
martin
and
perhaps
what
he
was
saying
is
that
there's
no
hums
it
will
show
up
as
niente.
So
there's
you
know,
there's
a
bucket
that
captures
very
low
or
no
humming,
and
if
you
have
feedback
about
the
tool,
please
send
it
to
tools
discuss
at
ietf.
That's
where
we're
having
discussion
about
it
and
I
think
opinions
vary.
So
please
bring
yours
to
the
tools
discussion
list
and
we
will
move
on
to
tourists.
Z
There
was
a
with
with
respect
to
the
last
call
right,
I
think.
Maybe
it's
also
an
issue.
The
document
shepards
and
the
working
group
chairs
may
be
trying
to
initiate
before
the
end
of
the
last
call
cross.
You
know
reviewing
wherever
there
might
be
feeling
of
the
most
useful
additional
feedback
or
even
earlier
than
the
last
call,
and
I
think
maybe
that
needs
to
be
exercised
more
from
my
own
experience,
and
I
I
thinking
I'm
too
blamed
there
as
well,
not
doing
that
enough.
Q
I
think
one
of
the
problems
is
that
their
authors
push
really
strongly
for
their
doctor
to
go
to
working
group
call
and
the
chairs
are
willing
to
push
back
for
a
while.
But
after
you
know,
five
or
six
or
seven
times,
but
my
document's
ready
for
working
group
last
call
nobody's
read
it,
but
my
documents
ready
for
working
group
last
call
but
nobody's
read
it
eventually.
Q
It
just
becomes
easier
for
the
working
group
chairs
to
say:
okay,
whatever,
let's
just
push
this
up
to
the
isg,
and
I
don't
really
know
how
we
can
fight
that.
I
mean
chairs
or
volunteers
at
some
point
after
they've
been
shouted
at
enough
times
by
authors,
it
just
becomes
easier
to
say
all
right.
Whatever
you
know,
I
will
kick
this
up
to
someone
else
and
make
it
their
problem.
Q
I
think
the
only
legitimate
way
to
try
and
fix
that
is
for
everybody
who
participates
to
either
be
willing
to
read
and
comments
or
drafts,
even
if
they
don't
find
them
interesting
or
to
provide
support
to
the
chairs.
When
the
chairs
say
no
author
x
has
said
17
times
now
that
they
think
the
document
has
consensus,
can
people
please
read
it
and
comment?
Q
So
I
think
this
is
sort
of
a
problem
that
lies
with.
All
of
us
chairs
need
support
as
well.
If
authors
are
pushing
on
errors
and
you're
a
working
group
participant,
please
feel
free
to
sort
of
help.
The
chair
push
back,
obviously
not
all
of
them
need
it,
but
sometimes
it
is
helpful.
Z
You
know
try
to
ask
strongly
for
review
from
expert
in
these
other
working
groups
on
the
specific
parts
that
could
have
sped
up
the
process
right,
because
so
it's
it's
really
all
in
I,
I
isg
and
I
triple
e
review,
that
this
is
all
back
loaded
right
and
I'm
just
saying
that
we
could
attempt
to
have
these
out
of
working
group
reviews
earlier
on
right,
because
I
think
you're
right
that
there
will
not
be
more
review
from
the
working
group
itself.
Z
Q
Yeah
and
just
to
be
clear,
I
wasn't
actually
commenting
on
on
any
specific
draft
just
to
yeah.
A
Okay,
thanks
phil
yeah.
AC
I
was
just
gonna
address
john's
point
earlier.
Yes,
things
were
different
25
years
ago,
and
so
was
the
were
the
drafts
that
we're
producing
then,
and
since
then,
we've
got
strong
security
requirements
that
have
to
be
passed.
Strongness,
iona
requirements,
we've
put
a
whole
set
of
requirements
on
the
qual
that
have
improved
the
quality
of
the
drafts,
but
the
other
thing
that
we've
done-
that's
probably
changed
the
process.
AC
Is
there
a
lot
of
cases
where
you
need
to
get
a
registration
and
we've
made
rfc
required
or
documentation
required,
which
ends
up
being
well?
It's
got
to
be
an
rfc
and
when
we
discuss
things
like
making
internet
drafts
permanent,
etc,
and
when
we
have
that
whole
rsc
process,
one
of
the
things
that
I
don't
think
was
really
clearly
addressed.
AC
There
was
that,
if
you're
going
to
make
the
threshold
an
rfc
is
required,
because
that's
the
only
thing
that
is
permanent,
then
what
you
end
up
doing
is
forcing
a
lot
of
stuff
to
go
through
the
isg
that
perhaps
never
needed
to
go
through
there
in
the
first
place,
because
all
that
somebody
wanted
was
a
code
point
for
their
idea
that
maybe,
if
it
just,
we
gave
them
the
code
point
and
they
went
away
and
it
died
afterwards.
Wouldn't
have
bothered
anybody.
A
A
A
B
Q
D
There
I'm
john
levine,
I'm
the
acting
rfc
sort
of
series,
editor.
B
B
B
D
Just
apropos
of
some
of
the
questions
that
were
asked
in
the
last
round
about
slow
documents,
I
don't
have
a
whole
lot
to
add
to
a
list
than
other
people
said:
cluster
238,
totally
screwed
up
our
schedule,
because
essentially
45
documents
were
basically
thrown
into
a
bucket
over
the
past
four
years
and
then
dropped
back
into
the
queue
all
at
the
same
time,
which
caused
a
huge
backlog.
D
In
the
past
couple
of
months,
the
the
the
production
people
have
been
working
diligently,
they're,
mostly
all
in
and
off
38
or
better
off,
48
or
better,
and
it
seems
likely
that
most
of
them
will
be
published
by
next
month.
Beyond
that,
the
switch
to
the
switch
to
xml
documents
was
very
disruptive.
I
mean
partly.
It
meant
that
that
everybody
had
to
learn
new
tools.
Apparently
it
means
we
now
have
new
permanent
jobs.
D
We
have
to
do
and
in
particular
in
the
v3
xml
it's
full
of
semantic
tagging,
which
is
great,
but
it
means
that
somebody
actually
has
to
do
the
semantic
tagging
and
if
the
authors
don't
do
it,
which
at
this
point
many
are
not,
the
rpc
has
to
go
through
and
do
the
semantic
tagging
too
and
there's
some
I'm
attempting
to
look
at.
How
can
we
make
our
tools?
But
here
let
me
take
this
off.
How
can
we
make
our
tools
better
and
also
you
know?
D
Can
we
encourage
people
to
submit
stuff
in
v3
with
the
tags
pretty
much
in
place,
which
will
save
a
fair
amount
of
time
and
on
the
also
on
the
back
end,
I
know
a
lot
of
people
want
to
use
github
for
authority
and
other
stuff.
We
have
an
experiment
doing
that
none
of
us
are.
None
of
us
are
opposed
to
it.
D
We're
just
worried
that
using
github
can
suggest,
subject
people
to
an
enormous
blizzard
of
of
comments
and
remarks
and
pull
requests
and
issues
and
stuff,
and
we're
trying
to
figure
out
how
to
do
this
in
a
disciplined
way,
so
that
the
so
that
the
editors
get
the
notices
get
the
notices
they
need
to
respond
to
without
having
to
wade
through
a
lot
of
stuff
that
they
don't
the
current
pro
the
current
experiment
looks
really
promising,
but
I
think
we
we
have
a
fair
amount
of
work
to
do
and
just
finally,
just
in
my
personal
viewpoint,
I
think
I
would
want
to
be
willing
to
push
back
a
little
more
when
a
document
shows
up
that
really
needs
a
lot
of
work
that
I
want
to.
D
I
would
like
the
rfc
editor,
whoever
turns
out
to
be
to
you
know
to
continue
to
have
the
the
realistic
authority
to
say
this
document
needs
to
go
back
and
have
more
work
from
the
working
group
before
it's
ready
to
edit,
just
because
you
know
that
it's
it's
not
well
enough
written
or
any.
You
know,
there's
too
much
obvious
changes
that
it
needs.
So
we
have
plenty
of
work
to
do
and
I
look
forward
to
doing
it
all
with
you.
B
Reporting,
we
still
have
the
opportunity
for
questions
for
the
ib.