►
From YouTube: IETF112-GAIA-20211108-1200
Description
GAIA meeting session at IETF112
2021/11/08 1200
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/112/proceedings/
B
A
A
A
If
you
know
of
any
contribution
covered
by
patents
or
patent
applications,
you
should
disclose
it
and
not
or
not,
participate
in
the
discussion,
and
I
think
it's
it's
it's
not
well,
and
it
is
well
known
in
all
the
idf
meetings,
and
you
know
that
the
recording
is
made
public
in
fact,
is
broadcasted
on
youtube,
and
this
is
the
police,
private
privacy
policy.
And-
and
you
know,
we
have
to
talk
with
respect
and
there
are
rfcs
about
how
to
how
to
behave.
A
A
And
these
are,
this
is
the
list
of
individual
objectives,
but
I
won't
go
into
detail
here
as
usual:
it's
it's
there.
You
can
look
at
it
later
on
on
the
repository
with
the
slides
and
then
going
to
the
core
of
the
meeting
today,
we
we
scheduled
four
presentations,
one
about
the
white
space
television
in
in
tanzania
from
matagoro
another
about
trouble
of
spectrum
by
from
steve
song
and
a
third
one
from
marco
cenaro
and
then
in
the
last
item.
A
B
D
E
E
E
A
E
B
B
B
B
B
E
Okay,
thank
you
very
much,
jane
and
sorry
for
the
for
the
technical
glitch.
So
this
presentation
was
supposed
to
be
the
last
one
because
it
was
really
a
call
for
you
know
your
ideas
on
how
to
you
know
in
some
way
get
back
to
normal.
So
presentation
is
together
with
kanchana
from
aat
in
in
thailand.
I
don't
know
if
kanchana
was
able
to
to
join
today,
but
the
idea
came
from
a
meeting
we
had
with
with
jane
a
couple
of
months
ago
and
it
was
really
about
standing
touch.
E
So
in
you
know
the
old
days
you
know
pre-coded
we
used
to
meet
each
other
either
at
conferences
or
workshops.
So
you
know
a
couple
of
times.
Every
year
I
had
a
chance
to
meet
jane
somewhere,
or
you
know,
kanchana
somewhere,
or
you
know
other
colleagues
from
the
community
steve
or
matagora,
but
that's
of
course,
not
possible
anymore.
So
we
we
thought
that
I
mean
there
is
this
lack
of
you
know
exchanging
the
latest
news
about
technology
and
about
our
research.
E
E
So
no,
you
know
background
information
or
you
know
telling
the
whole
story.
But
what
is
the
latest
news
in
specific
topics?
In
my
case
it
would
be
internet
of
things
or
machine
learning
on
j
on
the
edge
and
then
having
more
time
for
discussion,
questions
and
answers
and
experience
sharing.
So,
for
example,
you
know
showing
the
labs
showing
the
latest.
You
know
devices
and
discussing
the
latest
research
and
of
course
I
mean
there's
many
more.
You
know
topics
that
can
be
covered.
Jobs
is
number
four
here
and
example.
E
I
had
some
openings
for
a
postdoc
position
and
I
would
have
loved
to
exchange
that
information
with
people
in
the
community
or
you
know
fellowship
internships
projects.
You
know
a
matching
interest
in
you
know
looking
for
funding
together
and
we
listed
here
just
some
of
the
topics
where
we
know
that
you
know
there
has
been
a
lot
going
on
in
the
last
two
years,
but
we
didn't
really
have
the
chance
to
discuss
it
with
colleagues.
E
Satellite
would
be
one,
and
I
don't
know
if
steve
is
here,
but
there
is
a
lot
going
on
in
the
field
of
satellite,
both
from
the
technical
point
of
view,
but
also
from
the
policy
point
of
view
status
of
connectivity
again
lots
going
on
in
the
last
two
years,
and
so
having
you
know,
presentation
about
what
is
the
current
status
in
different
continents
would
be
very
nice,
iot
and
machine
learning
on
the
edge.
That's
me
again
and
I
think
that's
really
promising
for
our
ict
4g
community
spectrum
sharing
and
pv
weight
space.
E
E
B
And
for
those
that
are
new
to
gaia
or
nattonu,
this
would
be
just
a
really
interesting
informal
way
for
us
to
do
a
mashup
and
a
meet
up.
As
marco
is
saying,
and
we've
often,
we
had
a
great
chat
with
kanchana
who,
for
those
of
you
that
haven't
met
her,
she
helped
host
and
do
a
lot
of
the
work
behind
the
scenes
for
the
thailand,
the
bangkok
ietf
a
few
years
ago.
B
She
is
considered
the
I
don't
want
to
say
grandmother
the
mother
of
the
internet
in
thailand
and,
in
addition
to
being
just
a
lovely
human
she's,
really
done
more
to
bring
the
internet
to
thailand
than
just
about
anybody.
We
know-
and
we
worked
closely
with
her
from
our
side
on
to
help
establish
a
neutral
ixp
as
well
with
randy
bush
and
nsrc
and
many
others,
and
it
was
this
typical
internet
community
collaboration
donate
well.
We
got
some
amazing
switches
donated
with
the
help
of
some
of
the
equipment
manufacturers.
B
And
so
this
could
be
a
situation
where,
if
we
had
a
salon,
if
it
were
called
that
or
whatever
we
want
to
call
it
a
meet
up,
a
community
meet
up
in
between
the
gaia
meetings
and
other
that
we'd
be
able
to
hack.
That,
together
I
mean
many
of
you
who
are
on
the
regional
internet
registry
groups
have
also
seen
real
time
on
their
list
serves
real
time,
people
helping
each
other
saying:
hey,
let's
take
it
offline,
I've
had
that
same
problem
with
v4
v6.
B
So
there
you
go
and
yeah
you
could
get
back
to
me
and
leandro
through
the
and
or
marco
I'm
happy
to
have
people
to
contact
you,
marco,
it's
up
to
you
where
we
could
make
sure
we
set
something
up.
That
would
be
more
informal,
we'd,
probably
do
it
by
zoom
just
to
make
it
easier
to
get
to
log
in
onto
the
system.
B
This
cat
is
fascinated
by
the
fact
that
I
have
my
computer
up
anyway,
so
that
was
a
nice
chat
from
marco
who
we
put
our
heads
together
a
couple
months
ago
to
talk
about
the
importance
of
staying
together,
informally
in
an
easy
breezy
way.
For
some
of
you
that
don't
know
me,
we
often
will
have
these
tech
chats
with
folks
just
informally
around
the
planet,
just
to
see
what
people
are
doing
to
keep
us
all
together
during
covet
and
to
keep
innovating.
A
The
best
way
to
start
would
be
to
maybe
organize
one
of
these
meetings,
and
then
people
can
then
all
together
see
how
it
works
and
and
propose
replicating
experience.
But
I
think
the
first
experience
is
is
going
to
be
fundamental
to
to
show
that
that
it
works.
So
if,
if
you
or
anyone
has
has
an
initial
topic
to
to
have
such
a
meeting,
let's,
let's
try.
A
Yes
sounds
like
that.
I
mean
beyond
the
meetings
during
ietf
yeah,
we
have
a
mailing
list
and-
and
we
can
that's
typically
called
an
interim
meeting,
so
we
haven't,
we
can
have
a
meeting
without
having
all
of
us
to
be
registered
into
the
idf
and
only
through
zoom
or
any
other
tool.
That
would
be
easier
to
to
set
up,
and
less
I
mean
you
can
you
can
invite
anyone
and
joining
the
list
is
simply
simply
requesting
it
and
accepting
the
membership.
A
A
D
D
And,
finally,
I
I
I
think
was
2013
when
our
president
signed
the
the
the
president
of
the
nato
republic
of
tanzania
at
that.
Time
was
the
fourth
president,
when
they
signed
an
a
memorandum
of
understanding,
microsoft
on
undertaking
the
the
tv
white
space
in
in
urban
tanzania,
and
at
that
time
they
were
planning
to
connect
few
higher
ending
institutions
and
they
tied
up
device
provision
to,
as
maybe
as
part
of
their
own,
to
hire
an
institution
and
also
access
to
microsoft,
software
z
products
and
in
twitter.
D
D
So
I
decided
to
join
the
indian
institute
of
technology
mumbai
for
six
month
fellowship
and
once
I
came
back
because
the
team
realized
that
I
had
the
right
skills
because,
while
at
india,
I
was
participating
on
the
tv
osw
deployment
in
india
and
we
are
connecting
some
of
the
school
and
rural
in
india.
So
almost
six
six
months
and
once
I
come
back,
the
team
realized
that
I
was
having
the
right
skills.
D
D
We
had
an
online
meeting
with
malcolm
and
elman
from
ictp
ital
and
we
decided
that
we
can
set
up
at
that
time.
I
think
malcolm
proposed
something
like
maybe
community
network,
but
this
was
a
new
term
and
in
tanzania
it
was
actually
a
new
term
to
me,
personal
and
actual
in
in
the
ground,
and
when
we
submitted
to
internet
society
through
the
beyond
the
net
funding,
we
were
able
to
secure
funding
from
the
internet
society
and
afterwards
we,
the
universal
domain,
also
procured
some
of
the
equipment.
D
As
part
of
my
research
and
we
started
the
deployment
in
condor
and
finally,
we
were
able
to
set
up
a
rink.
However,
the
cost
for
bandwidth
was
so
expensive
because
for
mbps
we
were
paid
around.
We
are
paying
around
1000
usd
per
month,
and
on
top
of
that,
we
were
also
paying
the
corrocation
fee,
which
was
around
it
was
around
400
400
usd
because
it
was
seven
seven,
seven
hundred
thousand
tanzania
shootings
so
around
maximum
approximately
to
400
usd.
D
D
D
So
after
two
years
expired,
then
we
were
adapted
by
the
regret
that
we
have
to
switch
off
the
devices
and
at
that
time
we
were
also
hosting
the
fourth
summit
in
africa.
The
first
summit
on
community
network
in
africa,
and
we
tried
to
record
to
request
at
least
two
weeks
the
devices
to
be
on
and
because,
as
part
of
the
the
summit,
we
also
had
the
saitvist
condor.
D
So
the
the
ministry
and
the
rock
the
national
regret
they
were
able
to
allow
to
a
two
weeks
permission
to
switch
on
their
devices
and
after
the
submit,
then
we
were
instructed
to
switch
off
the
devices.
So
since
2009
devices
are
there
in
sight,
but
they
are
off
because
the
regretta
said
tv
white
space
have
not
yet
got
the
regressions,
so
we
are
not
allowed
to
use
the
devices
up
to
the
moment.
D
D
D
The
rent
was
on
on
the
on
the
desk
of
the
prime
minister
and
the
prime
minister
afforded
the
message
to
the
mini
to
the
minister
cabinet
to
the
cabinets,
and
now
people
are
the
the
the
ministers
were
now
running
here
and
there
to
find
why
the
devices
are
off,
who
are
behind
it,
and
it
was
really
at
that
time.
I
remember
it
was
on
may,
and
it
was
really
a
headache
for
me,
because
you
can
imagine
the
minister
phoning
you
that
you
we
need
to
meet
the
permanent
sectors
are
calling
you
that
matagoro.
D
What
is
happening.
The
vice
chancellor,
is
coding,
so
it
was
really
very
hectic,
and
actually
I
was
not
even
aware
what
was
going
on
and
and
finally,
I
was
also
able
to
get
the
access
to
the
message
and
phoned
the
the
guy
who
wrote
that
message.
It
was
actually
just
sending
out
a
message
that
we've
been
defeated
from
the
service
and
photo
entered.
D
D
D
So
after
that
discussion,
you
can
imagine
almost
seven
years
doing
the
same
initiative,
but
the
regulator
was
not
ready
to
listen
what
we
are
trying
to
propose
until
the
message
was
received
to
the
prime
minister.
So
afterwards,
it's
when
the
regretta
came
with
the
blaming
that
we
are
trying
to.
You
know,
report
them
and
something
like
that.
D
But
finally
they
are
able
to
give
us
the
option
that
if
we,
if
you
want
to
use
the
community-based
kind
of
approach,
then
the
community
needs
to
register
a
limited
company
to
the
business
registration
organization,
business
resolution
license
organization
and
then
afterwards
they
have
to
apply
for
the
license
and
then
the
procedure
can
can
go
on
because
they
are
saying
for
them
to
assess
whether
they
give
you
a
license.
They
they
assess
two
things:
they
assess
the
financial
aspects
and
also
the
technical
aspects.
D
So
if
you
go
as
a
not-for-profit
organization,
then
it
is
hard
for
them
to
assess
financial,
because
you
have
already
said
you
are
not
for
profit.
So
afterwards
we
we
struggled,
then
how
do
we
make
it?
Because
if
you
want
to
make
as
a
as
a
limited
company,
that
means
you
have
to
go
through
the
traditional
approach
with
where
most
of
commercial
sp
are
doing
and
and
in
that
way
you
also
get
subjected
to
a
lot
of
tax
that
you
have
to
pay.
D
D
The
the
registered
cooperatives
then
register
a
limited
campaign,
and
afterwards
the
limited
company
on
behalf
of
the
cooperatives
apply
for
their
license.
After
the
license,
then,
after
the
limited
company
got
the
license,
then
they
could
apply
and
they
can
they
can
up.
They
can
operate
in
the
district
level
and
at
the
disclaimer
I
think,
is
something
that
we
can
afford,
because
the
license
fee
is
around
250
usd
and
the
registration
fee
is
50,
50
usd
so
making
a
total
of
300
usd
getting
the
license
as
a
district
trade.
D
But
if
you
go
for
the
notch
of
the
original,
it
got
to
1500
and
if
you
add
up
the
lessons
the
russian
fee,
the
cost
to
go
high.
If
you
go
to
the
nationals,
it's
around
10
000
usd
for
the
license
fee
and
you
must
have
to
pay
for
registration
fee.
So
we
may
not
be
able
to
go
for
the
national,
because
we
we
started
with
only
five
community
networks.
D
So
we
opted
that's
better
for
these
five
communities
to
go
for
for
the
district
level,
because
we
can
at
least
pay
1
100
and
five
hundred
one
one
hundred
and
five
thousand
one
one
thousand
and
five
hundred
usd
for
three.
All
for
this
five
community
network,
and
afterwards,
once
we
we
perform,
then
we
can
now
go
to
maybe
a
national
level.
D
If
we
need,
we
see
is
something
that
is
is
sustainable
and
on
top
of
the
sustainability,
we
are
now
proposing
a
sustainable
business
model
with
80
parameter,
where
we
understand
that
partnership
is
key,
so
we
have
private
public
partnership,
plus
people
and
the
50
parameter.
We
also
adding
up
on
income
generating
activity
that,
because
you
know
commercial
asp
are
running
away
from
rural
community
because
they
may
not
be
afforded
to
pay
for
the
internet
and
other
communication
services.
D
So
that
means
there
is
an
issue
of
our
of
our
of
our
digital
retreats
and
the
the
seventh
one
is
on
the
initial
protocol
content.
So
we
are
trying
to
you
know
if
you
try
to
assess
the
current
telecommunication
ecosystem,
it's
like
very
fragmented
in
term
of
bringing
together
all
those
eight
seven
parameters.
So
what
we
are
trying
to
do
is
to
to
rebuild
the
current
telecommunication
ecosystem
using
the
community
network
cooperative
as
a
way
to
to
bridge
the
the
victories.
D
So
I
can
imagine
if
cooperative
approach
were
were
to
be
adopted
by
the
existing
commercial
mobile
network
operators.
Then
I
understand
even
the
the
issue
of
usage
gap
which
we
are
currently
saying
that,
for
example,
in
tanzania,
the
usage
gap
is
is
very
high.
You
find
people
are
living
with
that
within
the
coverage
gap
within
the
the
infrastructure
coverage,
but
they
are
not
using
the
services
because
you
find
all
these
parameters
are
fragmented.
D
So
we
we
are
trying
to
push
this,
and
maybe
what
is
our
wrong
vision
is
probable.
We
might
reach
a
point
where
we
have
a
big
and
strong
internet
service
provider
which
is
owned
by
cooperatives
in
tanzania,
because
our
target
is
to
connect
at
least
20
million
users
in
10
years
to
come.
So
that's
what
I
thought
I
could
share
and
maybe
who
does
open
up
for
discussion.
Thank
you.
B
When
we
say
non-profit
startup,
we
don't
mean
that
it's
not
a
business-like
entity,
because
I
know
macro
quite
well.
It's
very
business-like
but
you're
you're
trying
to
get
started
and
if
part
of
it
is
the
the
hampered
by
the
licensing,
the
fees.
But
I
think
you're,
seeing
a
change
with
the
regulator.
Am
I
right
and
the
ministry.
It
took
the
prime
minister
to
get
them
to
change
the
spectrum
allocation
and
other
things.
Yes,
is
that
right.
D
D
So
almost
seven
years-
and
I
I
thought
it's
something
just
this
is
simple.
You
know,
but
I
I
I
came
to
realize
that
it's
very
complex
and
if
one
is
not
clever,
you
can
just
turn
up
right
becoming
like
as
an
activist
you
know,
and
an
endless
activity,
because
you,
if
you're,
also
activating
trying
to
to
advocate
for
something
you
also
try
to
to
to
accommodate
the
existing
regulatory
frameworks.
D
D
Wall
street
isp
that
have
already
approached
that,
for
example,
we
had
a
discussion
with
ben
robert
from
liquidity
telcom,
where
he
said
liquid
telcom
is
ready
to
support,
maybe
rural
based
on
not-for-profit
isp,
but
having
the
license
the
the
rigor
license
from
the
from
the
local
regulator.
So
we
have
seen
that
if
we
have,
if
we
now
have
the
license
in
the
district
level,
we
we
have
other
commercial
isp,
but
my
similar
mindset
that
can
support
the
initiative
rather
than
just
trying
to
push
something
that
we
never
got
through.
D
D
So
they
have
already
initiated
the
process
of
registering
these
five
organized
limited
companies,
and
then
they
will
take
care
of
the
of
applying
the
license
on
behalf
of
these
of
these
cooperatives
that
have
already
established
and
afterwards
after
getting
that
license,
then
isp
like
liquid
terkom,
who
are
supporting
isp
in
term
of
warfare.
Bandwidth
sharing,
then
they
are
ready
to
work
with
us,
because
we
are,
we
can
even
get
the
bandwidth
reaching
to
all
these
districts
that
we
we
have
we
have
initiated.
D
So
to
me,
I
see
that
it
is
opening
up
some
doors
and
we
have
already
identified
some
of
the
similar
minded
isp,
who
can
can
tap
on
the
advantage
of
the
wall,
sale
prices
that
they
have
so
that
we
can
sell
the
price
that
is
affordable
with
our
community
in
these
five
established
cooperatives.
Thank
you.
A
B
B
Matagoro
is
the
is
the
ministry
and
or
the
regulator
now
looking
at
tv
white
space
as
viable
and
other
different,
innovative
uses
of
spectrum
for
future
connectivity,
because
this
won't
go
away
and
obviously,
with
kevin
showing
everybody
that
everybody
needs
to
be
connected
even
more
than
normal?
It's
been
the
best
advertising.
I
think
for
a
lot
of
what
we
all
do
in
a
weird
way.
Are
they
rethinking
spectrum
allocation
and
assignment,
not
everything?
D
Yeah,
the
good
thing
is
that
you
know
jane.
I
think
sometimes
noises
help
you
know,
because,
as
because
of
the
noises
that
I've
been
doing
even
very
recently,
the
ministry
secured,
I
think,
was
ozit
a
grants
or
run
from
the
world
bank
on
on
connectivity
and
one
of
the
solutions
they
are
looking
forward
was
a
broadband
overpowering
and
also
the
tv
white
space
technology.
D
So
even
the
minister,
the
the
the
person
in
charge
from
the
ministry
on
on
that
on
that
project
also
approached
me,
and
I
was
part
of
developing
like
something
that
we
could
try
to
take
advantage
of
the
tv
white
space.
So
I
I
see
things
happening,
but
there
are
still
a
few
engineers
who
are
trying
to
give
informations
which
are
not
correct,
like
maybe
some
one
of
them.
D
The
point
that
I
had
when
I
had
a
conversation
with
the
minister
is
that
there
was
an
ad
device
that
tv
white
space
should
be
pended
until
wrc
2023
to
decide
on
the
on
the
direction,
and
one
of
the
discussion
in
is
ctu.
I
was
asking
one
of
the
guy
from
itu
was
responsible
on
the
spectrum
and
standardization,
and
he
said
itu
does
not
have
mandates
on
the
rocco
spectrum
management
so,
but
I
think
they
are
also
praying
like
deranged
techniques
and
something
like
that,
but
we
we
are.
We
are.
D
E
Hey,
thank
you
motorola.
I
have
a
question.
So
what
about
this
spectrum
measurement
remember
in
at
the
beginning
of
this
project,
I
think
you
carried
out
these
spectral
measurements
to
show
how
much
spectrum
was
available
for
tv
white
space.
Has
that
been
useful
to
you
know
start
the
discussion
with
the
regulator.
D
D
So
at
least
we
have
scientific
and
academic
evidence
showing
that
the
spectrum
is
undiutraced
and
in
that
way,
in
most
cases
in
most
of
the
presentation
we
are
doing,
we
also
show
that
this
is
the
situation
and
it
always
isn't
the
discussion.
So
I
think
it
was
very
helpful
and
we
are
trying
to
push
for
that
that
the
there
is
a
huge
gender
utilization
of
the
resources
and
we
should
not
wait
four
years
or
three
years
until
wrc
2003.
D
While
people
are
not
connected
in
rural,
you
can
imagine.
For
example,
if
you
see
for
school
connectivity
you
find
around
like
32
percent
of
secondary
schools
are
only
connected,
and
if
you
go
to
the
primary
school,
it's
only
39,
almost
40
percent
have
connectivity.
So
that
means
we
need
to
have
this
kind
of
complement.
But
I'm
happy
that
they
they
are
now
pushing
that
material.
Okay.
Now
also,
I
apply
again
for
for
the
for
the
academic
reasons
you
get
up,
you
know,
but
I
think
things
are
opening
up.
B
We
also
have
kanchana,
who
can
come
in
via
voice
and
kachana.
You've.
You've
probably
seen
some
of
the
similar
issues
that
matagoro
is
seeing
with
respect
to
spectrum
and
the
mentality
or
sort
of
the
need
to
educate
regulators,
quite
frankly
in
ministries
because
matagord
your
point
about
waiting
until
2023
for
the
world
radio
conference.
No
and
and
that's
such
a
political
conference
it'll
be
a
leo
based
conference,
they'll
be
talking
about
low
earth,
orbiting,
satellites
and
orbital
slots,
and
you
know,
it'll
be
quite
a
show
and
so
an
important
meeting.
F
Hello,
everybody,
I'm
sorry.
I
was
late
yeah.
I
think
my
experience
and
your
experience
is
not
so
much
different,
but
what
I
tried
to
do
was
I
tried
my
best
to
avoid
having
to
deal
with
regulator,
so
I
always
try
to
use
the
wi-fi
and
we
we
were.
We
were
given
an
opportunity
to
test
tv
white
space
and
we
found
that
the
technology
was
okay,
but
the
problem
was
the
equipment.
F
The
vendor
in
this
technology
are
not
ready
to
to
support
us,
so
I
think
for
thailand,
tv
white
space
is
kind
of
you
know,
put
on
the
shelf
from
the
regulator
point
of
view
and
from
our
point
of
view
as
well.
So
from
that
I
experienced
what
happened:
is
our
community
network
with
our
community
network?
We
also
try
to
work
in
the
area
where
you
don't
have
you
don't
have
connective
connectivity
and
provider,
and
what
happened
is
that
after
a
few
years,
the
providers
started
to
come
in.
F
F
You
have
demand
for
online
classrooms,
so
online
learning.
So
we
took
this
opportunity
to
deal
with
the
bangkok
slum
area,
so
this
is
not
a
rural
community
network,
but
in
the
city
community
network.
So
we
immediately
take
this
opportunity
to
build
a
community
in
bangkok
area
and
we
have
already
we
spent
about
three
months
on
this
project
already
and
it's
we
have
very
good
responses
and
the
people
in
the
in
the
community
really
appreciate
our
help.
F
So
we
you
know
with
this
opportunity,
you
can
talk
to
regulators
and
they
are
nice
at
the
moment
because
they
want
to
see
things
moving.
So
everyone
came
to
to
be
our
friend
now
so
I
I
suggest
that
you
try
not
not
fighting
with
regulator
or
government,
try
to
work
around
and
whenever
there's
opportunity
arise,
then
you
can
get
that
understanding.
F
B
F
F
B
It's
the
the
fact
that
certain
areas
that
don't
have
a
certain
income
levels
or
are
very
far
away
rural
remote
many
mobile
operators-
and
this
is
where
we
want
to
be
partners
with
mobile
operators,
because
for
some
of
them
they
don't
get
a
return
on
investment
in
communities
of
5000
and
under
the
roi,
isn't
there.
So
this
is
the
business
case,
and
we've
talked
to
many
and
we've
worked.
We've
talked
to
gsma
and
some
others.
We've
got
to
find
a
way
to
allow
the
smaller
networks.
D
B
Motivation
in
is
kind
of
crazy,
and
so
we
run
into
these.
You
can't
get
through
this
bottleneck,
because
it's
regulatory
and
you
can't
get
through
this
bottleneck,
because
you
have
very
strong
lobbying
arms
and
I'm
not
saying
that
there's
got
to
be
a
way
as
you're
saying
kanchana
wherever
you
are
to
get
through
those
bottoms.
F
I
think
what
what
you
need
to
do
is
to
have
a
working
solution
that
can
convince
them,
so
you
need
to
start
somewhere
and
in
order
to
do
that,
try
to
do
your
best
within
the
the
whatever
they
have
given
you.
So
once
you
start
to
have
a
solution,
then
they
could
see
something
working.
Then
you
can
start,
you
know
convincing
them
and
try
to
talk
to
to
teleport
and
get
them
to
work
with
you.
F
D
D
Yes,
we
we,
we,
because
you
know
I
I
wear.
I
wear
many
hats,
so
I,
when
I
was
doing
this
because
as
an
academic
lecturer
then,
is
quite
easy
because,
as
part
of
my
my
responsibility,
I'm
able
to
do
three
things:
research,
teaching
and
doing
public
services
or
consultants.
So
it's
quite
easy
going
out
as
an
academic
to
ask
for
that.
D
But
if
you
want
to
do
research
on
sustainable
business
model,
then
at
least
you
have
to
have
some
commercial
aspects
out
of
which,
where
there
is
a
limited
capacity
for
the
academic
institution
to
do
that,
that's
why
you
also
need
to
have
maybe
going
out
and
starting
correcting
some
revenue
to
see.
Is
it
sustainable
and
qatar?
You
also
mentioned
something
important.
Like
tv
white
space
vendors,
you
know
even
still
yeah.
F
D
D
So
if
we
have
many
african
countries
having
regression
in
process,
then
there
is
a
must
a
mass
production
of
devices
and
the
price
will
go
down
and
maybe
something
that
I
also
wanted
to
add
up
with
that.
Maybe
for
for
jenny
and
few
other
fellows
who
we
are
trying
to
push
the
concept
of
community
network,
it
is
very
important
that
when
we
are
supporting
community
network,
we
should
try
to
have
a
working
case
in
their
context.
D
That
means,
for
example,
if
we
are
supporting,
maybe
a
community
network
in
drc,
we
should
try
to
analyze
the
regulatory
framework
and
be
a
point
where
this
community
network
can
be
able
to
get
either
a
prototype
or
maybe
just
to
set
up
a
proof
of
concept,
even
if
it's
not
a
kind
of
a
commercial
per
se,
full
commercial
per
se.
But
at
least
in
a
way
they
should
be
able
to
have
a
proof
of
concept
within
the
current
regulatory
framework.
D
D
I
think
that's
something
that
I
normally
give
out
when
someone
reach
out
that
matagoro,
because
most
of
the
people
are
coming
up,
that
we
want
to
set
up
this
and
these
days,
but
what
I
try,
a
device
that
try
to
understand
your
regulatory
frameworks
and
find
a
way
where,
even
before
getting
the
fund
you,
you
have
a
way
that
if
I
have
a
funding,
then
I
can
buy
equipment.
I
can
use
this
technology
and
then
I
can
have
the
first
deployment,
maybe
within
the
first
quarter
of
our
of
the
project.
D
F
F
F
The
same
I
I
am
also
a
professor,
so
I
I
use
this
position
to
to
do
many
things
that
normal
people
are
not
support
can
not
allow
to
do
so
anyway.
The
idea
is
that
you
really
need
to
have
you
know
a
working
working
community
network,
and
then
you
can
convince
a
regulator
or
policy
maker.
So
right
now
we
got
a
lot
of
requests
from
from
government
people
to
visit
our
network,
our
site.
F
So
even
parliamentary
and
yes,
you
know
asking
for
to
visit
our
community
network,
so
you
have
to
start
for
making
something
that
works,
even
though
it's
not
connected
to
the
internet.
You
know
local
community
network
and
have
good
utilization
and
application
within
the
community,
and
that
is
very
important,
something
that
they
can
see.
They
can
really.
They
would
appreciate
what
you're
doing
yeah.
B
B
F
D
B
B
And
both
of
you
know
the
next
person
who
we're
going
to
have
present,
which
is
steve,
sung
one
of
our
great
colleagues
who
wears
many
hats
but
has
been
doing
great
work
on
spectrum
with
apc
and
other
and
we're
going
to
turn
over
the
stage
to
you
steve.
So,
thank
you
very
much
to
bera
and
kanchana
that
was
fabulous
and
steve
over
to
you.
G
Does
that
can
everyone
see
my
screen
all
right,
yeah,
perfect?
Okay,
so
I
mean
I,
I
all
of
the
discussions
so
far,
both
kanchanas
and
matagora's
experience
resonate
with
me
is
this
is
a
access
to
spectrum?
Is
something
I've
been
been
working
on
for
for
a
number
of
years
in
a
variety
of
roles,
so
I'm
a
half-time
policy
advisor
with
a
mozilla
corporation.
I
work
with
the
apc
on
policy
and
regulation
for
community
networks,
and
I've
also
worked
with
nsrc
and
other
institutions
on
on
these
issues.
G
I
think
the
biggest
problem
you
know
we
have
to
contextualize
the
issue
of
spectrum.
It's
not
just
an
academic
issue,
it's
not
just
a
a
kind
of
theoretical
problem.
It's
it's
a
real
problem
we
face
today,
because
what
we
see
is
declining
growth
in
the
spread
of
of
of
internet
infrastructure,
so
there
are
more
and
more
people
getting
connected,
but
they're
getting
connected
at
a
slower
and
slower
rate,
and
that
applies
to
the
internet.
It
also
applies
to
to
mobile
users
in
general,
and
the
reason
why
is
is
pretty
straightforward.
G
G
So
we
we
need
to
you,
know,
think
of
the
different
ways
of
solving
the
problem,
because
current
approaches
are
not
enough.
I
mean
they
have
achieved
remarkable
things,
but
they
are.
They
are
not
enough,
and
I
think
this
has
really
come
home
as
a
result
of
the
pandemic
right.
You
know,
because
you
know
what
we've
learned
from
the
pandemic
is
not
just
the
importance
of
of
connectivity
but
the
importance
of
inclusion,
because
if
you
have
access
to
the
internet
during
the
pandemic,
you
can
survive
a
lockdown.
G
You
know,
in
terms
of
you
know,
being
able
to
access
education.
You
know
continue
to
participate
in
the
in
the
workforce
and
to
stay
abreast
of
of
changes
that
that
are
that
are
affecting
everyone,
whereas
if
you
have
no
access,
all
of
that
you
are
excluded
from
and
as
the
resource
that
is,
the
internet
gets
better
and
better.
You
know
people
without
access
are
falling
further
and
further
behind,
even
by
just
standing
still.
So
it
tells
me
you
know.
G
G
G
G
G
G
G
So
there's
this
kind
of
tension
between
the
two
and
while
mobile
has
been
extremely
successful.
It's
kind
of
a
victim
of
its
own
success,
especially
in
emerging
markets.
So
here's
some
examples
of
of
prices
paid
at
auction
by
operators
in
sub-saharan
africa,
and
you
can
see
that
you
know
the
the
the
sums
paid
are
are
significant.
You
know
I
you
point
out
in
nigeria,
in
19,
2016
mtn
paid
nearly
a
hundred
million
dollars
for
a
spectrum
license
in
2.6
gigahertz,
which
you
know
has
many
consequences.
G
One
is
they
have
to
recruit
that
hundred
million
dollars?
So,
where
are
they
going
to
invest
their
technology?
Well,
they're,
going
to
invest
their
technology
where
they're
most
likely
to
gain
returns
and
which,
which
has
an
impact
on
on
rural
rollout
and-
and
you
know,
regulators
and
governments
recognize
this
to
some
degree
and
have
attempted
you
know:
programs
like
universal
service
funds
to
kind
of
stimulate
the
rural
rural
rollout,
but
it
has
been
a
limited
success
in
in
pushing
that
and
so
the
but
the
real.
G
G
However,
the
barrier
to
you
to
using
these
technologies
has
to
be
compared
against
license
exempt
spectrum.
So
a
wi-fi
you
know
for
a
couple
of
hundred
dollars,
I
can
put
up
a
broadband
link.
That's
you
know
that
is
hundreds
of
megabits
per
second
and
it's
it's
pretty
much
plug
and
play
with
tv
white
space.
There
is
a
geolocation
database
which
must
be
logged
into
by
the
device.
G
So
tv
white
space
has
been
very
frustrating
as
a
technology
in
terms
of
its
uptake
for,
for
those
reasons,
I
think,
if
tv
white
space
is
going
to
succeed,
then
it
has
to
be
compared
to
wi-fi
in
terms
of
regulation.
It
has
to
be
a
as
easy
to
use
as
wi-fi,
and
it
has
to
be
in
the
same
realm
of
affordability.
Because
really
you
know,
if
you
were
thinking
about
deploying
a
tv
white
space
technology
to
get
through
some
foliage
or
to
you
know,
solve
a
an
obstruction
you
have
to
consider.
G
Well,
wouldn't
it
be
easier
just
to
build
another
wi-fi
tower
and
solve
it
that
way,
so
that's
the
bar
that
has
to
be
met,
and
so
I
think
you
know.
For
instance,
regulators
need
to
consider
like
creating
an
incubatory
period
where
there
are
zero
fees
for
the
use
of
tv
white
space
technologies,
and
they
you
know
they.
You
know
a
moratorium
on
on
import
duties
on
tv
white
space
technologies.
It
has
to
be
stimulated.
G
So
imt
stands
for
international
mobile
telecommunications
and
that's
the
that's
the
spectrum
that
the
big
operators
use
so
the
mobile
spectrum.
As
we
know
it
comes
in
many
flavors
now
it
used
to
be.
You
know,
in
the
origin
of
gsm,
there
were
like
two
or
three
bands
and
they
varied
a
little
from
from
region
to
region.
G
But
now
you
know
lte,
for
example,
has
40
bands
that
that
are
possible
to
use
for
lte
services,
which
opens
up
a
range
of
possibilities
and
to
date,
typically
operator
or
regulators,
are
only
releasing
that
via
auction
and
yet
realizing
that
for
many
of
these
licenses
that
they
are
issuing,
the
uptake
in
rural
areas
is,
is
very,
very
low
or
are
non-existent
by
by
operators.
So
there's
this
spectrum,
that's
not
being
used,
and
it's
and
because
of
these
exclusive
used
licenses,
there's
just
no
way
of
accessing
it.
G
So
that's
the
change
we're
seeing
now
and
the
change
that
I
think
you
know
as
civil
society.
We
need
to
have
more
and
more
conversations
with
regulators
about
this
and
and
I'll
just
talk
about
some
some
examples
of
how
this
has
been
done.
So
in
mexico,
in
2016,
the
regulator
set
aside
a
specific
amount
of
imt
spectrum
for
use
by
social
purpose
organizations
for
access
in
underserved
communities
and
by
indigenous
communities.
So
that's
one
way
in
that.
G
G
A
middle
tier
of
licenses,
which
are
ten-year
called
power,
licenses
ten-year
licenses
but
owned
that
apply
to
a
a
much
smaller
geographic
area
and
then
a
third
tier
which
is
the
general
access
which
is
kind
of
wi-fi
like
so
it
it
it.
It
allows
for
a
range
of
different
uses,
but
it's
it's
kind
of
very
unique
to
the
situation
that
the
us
finds
itself
in
and
having
the
us
military
as
the
the
primary
user
and-
and
it
is
a
database
driven
approach.
Much
like
inspired
by
tv
white
space
technologies.
G
A
different
approach
has
been
taken
by
the
united
kingdom
in
issuing
two
different
kinds
of
licenses,
a
local
access
license
and
a
shared
access
license
and
that
addresses
both
like
existing
licenses
and
unused
spectrum
as
well.
So
a
shared
access
license
has
set
aside
spectrum
a
bit
like
mexico
and
said
this
spectrum
will
be
shared
and
we
will
issue
kind
of
licenses
as
and
where
we
see
fit
in
this
band.
G
And
so
this
is
the
frontier
from
my
perspective
and
it's
what
can
really
unlock
access
to
for
small
operators
to
deliver
services
via
lte
and
even
5g,
which
has
you
know,
a
big
impact?
You
know
in
terms
of
the
reach
of
the
of
the
technology
versus
wi-fi
and
also
you
know,
being
able
to
speak
directly
to
to
handsets
so.
That's
it
really.
B
I
want
to
have
one
quick
question:
maybe
I'll
get
the
others
thinking
when
you
say
that
canada
is
taking
a
look
at
following
in
the
footsteps
potentially
of
the
uk,
and
I
couldn't
agree
with
you
more
uk
has
really
done
an
amazing
job.
What
do
you
mean
by
that?
I
know
we
have
proceedings
going
on.
There
are
requests
for
comments.
What
does
that
mean?
B
G
They
are
kind
of
teachable
moments
in
policy
and
regulation,
because
it
is
the
one
moment
where
the
regulator
has
to
listen
to
anyone
who
makes
a
submission
they
have
to
take
into
account
what
you've
said
and
and
demonstrate
that
they
have
taken
it
into
account.
So
if
you
want
to,
you
know,
have
an
impact
in
terms
of
influencing
regulation.
G
Responding
to
these
consultations,
you
know
is
absolutely
critical
because
they
are.
It
is
the
the
moment
when
the
regulator
is
most
open
to
to
input.
So
you
know
seizing
the
day
in
these
consultations
is,
is
key
and
that
can
be
intimidating
right
and
and
hard.
So
I
will
say
that
one
thing
that
that
we've
been
doing-
and
I
say
we
with
my
apc
hat
on-
is-
is
we've
been
capturing.
G
All
of
the
submissions
that
we've
been
making
to
new
regulators
on
a
wiki
and
I'll
put
the
link
to
the
wiki
there.
But
so,
if
you
are,
you
know
if
you
were
in
the
k
in
the
situation
where
there
is
a
consultation
by
the
regulator
on
license
exempt
or
tb
white
space
or
spectrum
sharing,
you
can
look
at
other
submissions
from
civil
society
organizations
and
use
that,
as
kind
of
grist
for
your
thinking
mill
to
to
decide
how
how
to
input.
G
B
F
I
really
did
not
mean
that
we
need
we
shouldn't
ignore
talking
to
regulate,
I
mean
convincing
regulator.
I
think
it's
that
job
of
someone
like
you
to
do
that.
Okay
for
us
inside
the
country.
We
need
to
convince
them
and
show
them
that
we
need.
You
know
we
need
spectrum,
we
need
this
kind
of
thing,
but
we
need
to
show
them
by
working
example
and
for
people
like
yourself
can
convince
them
from
the
outside
from
internationally.
F
D
Yeah,
maybe
steve
you,
you
delivered
a
very
a
very
wonderful
presentation
during
the
first
digital
transformation
with
telnet
and
it
it
sounds
like
the
concept
of
community
network
which
you
mentioned
during
the
conference,
was
a
very
positive
to
the
audience,
and
it's
unfortunate
that
margaret
is
is
no
longer
internet
and
there
is
a,
I
think,
a
new
acting
ceo
and
stefan.
I
think
we
we
need
to
find
a
way
on
how
to
extend
the
discussion.
D
D
So
if
we,
if
we
build
a
good
case,
then
it
will
easing
for
for
us
who
are
pushing
for
alternative
and
complementary
approach
like
community
network
to
take
advantage
of
the
bandwidth
they
have
because
something
staying
there
is
something
no
one
is
using
it.
While
we
are
struggling
in
in
a
rural
area
with
a
lot
of
people
disconnected-
I
maybe
I
could
be
up
to
here
on.
On
top
of
that,
thank
you.
G
Thanks
monica
matagora
yeah,
so
what
what
madagura
is
referring
to
is
I
I
gave
a
talk
to
the
national
research
and
education
network
of
tanzania
a
month
ago,
and
I
talked
about
access
to
the
national
fiber
optic
backbone,
because
I
mean
access
to
spectrum
is
important
and
it
is
key.
But
but
if
you
can't
get
access
to
a
high-speed
backbone,
then
your
spectrum
is
well.
It's
only
a
piece
of
the
solution,
and
in
sub-saharan
africa
the
there
is
a
lot
of
fiber
optic
backbones.
G
In
that,
because
these
national
research
and
education
networks
are
already
operating
national
high-speed
networks,
they
can
extend
that
access
to
to
community
networks
that
that
are
near
them.
I
think
the
the
challenge
is
once
again
one
of
regulation
where
they
have
to
be
allowed
to
do
that.
In
often,
you
know
the
they
are
constrained
in
only
being
able
to
connect
educational
institutions
and
they're
often
constrained
as
well
in
terms
of
how
they
are
licensed,
versus
how
the
commercial
network
operators
are
licenses
licensed.
G
So
in
general,
I
think
there's
this
need
to
from
a
regulatory
point
of
view,
to
recognize
non-profit
operators
and
create
you
know,
a
different
regulatory
environment
for
non-profit
operators,
ranging
all
the
way
from
national
research
and
education
networks
down
to
down
to
small
network
operators,
and
I
think
part
of
that
begins
with
advocacy
for
for
enrons
in
general.
In
that
I
I
find
them
to
be
under
recognized
by
by
ministries
of
education
or
ministries
of
telecommunications.
G
B
I
put
something
quickly
in
the
chat
about
we're
hearing
more
and
more
about
public
access
networks
as
well
and
put
together
by
some
municipalities
where
enron
see
community
networks.
Small
isps
could
use
those
public
access
networks,
but
it
is
a
matter
of
a
getting
them
built
or
be
allowing
more
the
regs
and
rules
to
change
to
allow
for
access
there
on
interconnect.
A
A
Okay,
just
to
say
that
this
is
a
recurrent
topic
and
we
have
like
a
document
that
that
is
from
august
to
2016.
and
and
the
other
topic
is
well,
you
already
introduced
the
internet
meetings.
So
regarding
the
the
document
that
we
published
like
four
years
ago,
I
wanted
to
just
to
to
comment
that
it's
it's
there,
but
I
think
it's
worth
to
do
an
update,
as
this
is
my
impression,
but
I
wanted
to
know
more
about
the
impression
of
others.
A
A
This
is
the
table
of
contents
of
the
of
the
of
that
rfc
and
well
it's
detailed.
It
talks
about
alternative
networks.
There
was
some
discussion
about
how
to
frame
the
space,
for,
let's
say,
non-commercial
operators
and
as
steve
was
presented
before
how
to
throw
a
smaller
stones
into
the
jar
to
fill
in
the
gap,
a
gap
that
is
measured
in
people
unconnected
but
is
not
measured
in
terms
of
business
loss,
because
there
is
no
business,
sometimes
in
those
areas
that
are
not
attractive
for
the
commercial
operators.
A
A
D
E
D
Think
coming
through
the
guys
is
something
that
we
we
would
we
would
we
have
to
do
and
to
me
personal,
I,
because
we
have
been
also
struggling
a
lot
in
africa
to
engage
the
academia
and
other
experts
in
africa,
especially
in
the
contribution
of
the
rfc
and
I
itf
activities.
So
I
think
this
could
be
things
like
a
good
start
for
for
for
the
engagement,
because
if,
if
one
participates
to
such
kind
of
activity,
then
you
understand
on
how
the
request
for
comments
can
be
updated
and
can
be
developed.
D
And
things
like
that.
So
I
know
we
have
been
pushing
that
with
kevin
chegger
from
internet
society
and
then
there
is
progress,
but
the
uptake
is
not
it's
not
yet
there,
because
the
the
participation
of
most
african
academia
on
the
writing
of
rfcs
is
still
very
raw.
So
I
think
I
support
it
because
we
have
some
new
context
to
update
on
the
on
the
on
the
document,
but
second
also
gaining
the
the
the
participation
and
the
active
perspective,
because
I
see
community
network
picking
up
very
very
strongly
in
africa.
D
A
If,
if
helpful,
I
think
people
will
be
willing
to
contribute
effort
so
well
any
comment:
question:
we
can
open
a
thread
of
mail
discussion
in
the
in
the
list
in
the
mailing
list
and
see
what
we
can
do
about
it.
So,
okay.
So
thank
you
very
much.
Thank
you
for
joining
yet
another
remote
online
ietf
meeting.