►
From YouTube: IETF113-GAIA-20220322-0900
Description
GAIA meeting session at IETF113
2022/03/22 0900
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/113/proceedings/
B
C
A
We'll
get
started
everyone
in
just
about
two
minutes
in
the
meantime,
if
you
haven't
taken
advantage
of
looking
through
the
no
well,
please
do
I
won't
read
through
it.
I
made
that
mistake
the
first
time
in
the
first
meeting
I
was
in
some
people
were
amused
by
that,
but
please
note
the
new
note
well
and
the
agendas
in
the
meeting
materials,
leandra,
navarro
and
jane
coffin.
That's
me
are
the
co-chairs
of
gaia.
A
Many
of
us
were
have
either
been
involved
in
the
standard
side
of
the
house,
in
building
networks
and
building
communities
and
funding
to
sustain
networks
as
well,
and
some
of
the
speakers
today
are
going
to
be
talking
to
you
about
actual
hacks
actual
things
that
they're
doing
with
networks,
considerations
to
think
about
for
building
out
new
networks
with
leandro
and
the
environmental
sustainability
related
issues.
A
Machuchi
will
be
talking
about
sustainability
for
community
networks
and
we'll
have
the
resilience
of
the
internet
and
ukraine
from
vesna
who's
with
rypncc,
a
good
colleague
of
many
of
ours
and
the
decentralized
and
federated
communication
services
and
disaster
zones
from
dmitry
vitiliev
leandro.
I
don't
need
to
speak
too
much
longer.
I've
introduced
the
fact
that
we
have
a
good
agenda
in
the
data
tracker.
We've
got.
A
So
you
have
more
q,
a
no
worries
and
if
we've
got
time
afterwards,
we'll
we'll
just
entertain
more
questions,
because
we
have
a
really
great
group
of
experts
with
us
here
today
and
I
will
try
and
speak
more
slowly.
I
noticed
in
some
of
the
traffic
from
the
list,
but
it
was
important
that
we
all
say
our
names
slowly,
I'm
jane
coffin.
A
My
co-chair
liandro
navarro,
will
introduce
himself
a
bit
more
what
he
does
and
for
each
of
the
speakers
please
introduce
who
you
are
slowly
when
you
speak
and
where
you
come
from,
you
know
not
only
geographically,
but
what
organization
you
work
with,
if
you
like,
I
mean
we're
all
hint
here
as
individuals,
but
some
people
like
to
know
who
you're
working
with
anyway
leandra
over
to
you.
B
Thank
you
jane.
I
hope
you
can
see
the
the
agenda
in
the
stream,
so
this
is
the
list
of
the
five
presentations
we
had
scheduled
for
today.
Before
we
start,
is
anyone
willing
to
take
notes
during
the
meeting
any
volunteer
can
say
so
in
in
the
chat?
B
Okay:
okay,
thank
you
very
much
so
regarding
presentations,
dimitri
told
me
that
he
might
arrive
a
bit
late
because
he's
in
the
u.s
and
the
time
is
tight
and
I
don't
see
mark
brigier.
B
In
the
list,
so
maybe
we
might
need
to
skip
the
second
presentation
so
well.
The
first
presentation
is
it's
mine.
It's
a
warm-up
presentation,
it's
based
on
on
something
that
I
that
I
already
presented
a
couple
of
years
ago,
but
I
wanted
just
to
revisit
the
topic
a
little
bit.
B
B
Well,
you
know
there
are
billions
of
ict
devices
on
the
users
and
in
the
network,
and
to
what
extent
can
we
afford
that
growth
and
because
our
working
group
is
about
internet
for
all,
all
means
a
lot
of
devices
in
the
end
and
and
imagine
about
the
energy
spent
and
materials
spent
on
on
all
what
we
do
in
the
on
the
internet?
B
It
used
to
be
that
the
internet
is
was
a
solution
to
the
problems
of
excessive
footprint,
but
the
internet
itself
is
also
nowadays
becoming
bigger
and
bigger,
and
climate
change
is
something
that
we
have
to
do
right.
Only.
We
only
have
one
opportunity,
because
we
only
have
one
word
and
and
then
well
the
carbonization
that
so-called
like
that,
the
reduction
of
emissions,
the
reduction
of
material
impact
on
on
the
on
our
infrastructure,
requires
solutions
on
time
and
that
that
is
either
evolutionary
or
revolutionary.
B
This
this
graph
doesn't
come
from
us.
It
comes
from
itu,
but
they've
done
a
work
to
translate
the
ipcc
temperature
trajectories
of
climate
change
into
what
is
the
requirement
for
the
ict
sector
and
the
ict
sector
is
growing
and
you
see
the
blue
line
from
2015
to
2030
it's
growing
in
terms
of
emissions,
but
to
comply
with
the
1.5
degrees
of
temperature,
climate
change
increase.
Let's
say
we
have
to
not
continue
increasing
but
radically
going
the
opposite
direction
of
reducing
about
half
of
the
emissions
from
2015.
B
So
this
is
connected
to
keeping
climate
change
to
1.5
degrees,
which
means
no
no
severe
effects
on
on
climate,
and
this
is
going
to
happen
soon,
in
fact,
because
because
there
are
reports
that
says
that
to
meet
this
deadline
on
2030,
we
need
to
by
2015
20
20
2025.
B
We
we
need
to
pick
on
and
start
decreasing
by
that
year,
and
this
is
in
only
nine
or
ten
ietf
meetings.
So
we
have
to
do
something
so
that
by
by
in
10
ift
meetings,
we
we
not
only
have
ideas,
but
also
we
have
solutions
for
the
problem
that
are
already
delivering
impacts
with
actions.
B
Electricity
is
one
is
one
aspect.
I
found
another
reference
on
literature
that
says
that
ict
technology
overall
might
be
consuming
about
50
more
than
50
percent
of
global
electricity
and
and
and
contribute
to
the
total,
a
total
of
about
23
of
greenhouse
gas
emissions.
B
It's
surprising
to
me,
but
this
is
reported
in
a
publication.
At
least
we
have
to
take
into
into
account
if
you
look
at
the
contribution
of
of
the
internet
and
of
the
user
devices
to
greenhouse
gas
emissions.
Do
you
see
that
manufacturing?
I
mean
production
has
a
big
impact.
B
A
huge
impact
use
of
the
device
itself
doesn't
have
too
much,
but
of
course,
if
you
add
to
it-
and
this
is
just
the
device-
but
if
you
look
at
the
overall
consumption,
the
use
phase
consists
on
a
part
on
on
the
device
itself,
but
also
we
are
using
servers
on
the
internet.
We
are
using
the
network,
the
mobile
network
and
the
ip
network
and
therefore
the
total,
among
the
total
amount
about
half
of
it,
is
connected
to
network
to
the
enable
infrastructure.
B
So
the
question
is:
I'm
not
coming
with
a
solution,
I'm
just
coming
with
a
problem.
What
can
we
do?
Can
we
do
anything
to
really
prepare
for
a
peak
on
2025
or
to
meet
the
expectations
for
the
2030?
B
B
Maybe
we
need
to
go
back
to
fidonet
or
we
need
to
come
up
with
a
new
ipv7
or
something
or
some
other
proposals
about
radically
new
network
architectures,
and
there
are
the
typical
ingredients
that
we
know
from
from
protocol
design
about
saving
data,
saving
transfers,
optimizing
protocols,
reducing
the
payloads
of
messages
tweaking
timers
and
and
so
forth,
but
this
is
more
like
evolutionary.
Of
course
I
mentioned
that
in
the
previous
meeting
two
years
ago.
B
B
So
I
wanted
to
I
wanted
to
collect
ideas
here.
You
have
a
link
I
this
is
very
long,
but
here
you
have
a
short
url
which
redirects
to
the
preference
to
the
previous
one
in
which
you
can
you
can
add
your
own
ideas
about
what
we
can
do.
I
won't
explain
my
own
ideas.
These
are
in
the
slide,
but
I
want
you
to
really
come
up
with
a
proposal
and-
and
in
fact
this
can
be
interactive.
B
If
you,
if
you
just
go
to
the
page,
to
the
url
that
I
mentioned
you
can,
you
can
add
things
you
would
like
to
to
keep
I'm
joking
here
like
keeping
snmp.
Well,
it's
an
example
or
something
that
shouldn't
be
should
be
there
anyway.
B
Radically
just
like
quickly
associative
examples
and
then,
of
course
you
can.
You
can
type
your
own
card
like
this,
and
you
can
also,
instead
of
creating
a
new
card,
you
can
always
like
add
an
extra
point
to
one
of
the
notes
that
are
already
there
so
and
then
well.
It
has
a
plus
one
boat,
okay,
so
this
is.
This
is
my
proposal
that
we
collectively
despite
we,
so
we
don't
have
a
breakfast
place
where
we
can
sit
together
and
discuss.
B
So,
let's
try
to
use
this
board
to
collect
ideas
about
how
can
we
try
or
not
try
to
to
meet
this
this
environmental
challenge
because,
as
I
said
at
the
beginning,
there
is
about
the
internet
for
all,
but
to
have
an
internet
for
all
means.
We
have
to
make
sure
that
it's
also
for
the
planet
and
and
our
infrastructures
are
intensive
in
materials
in
energy
in
devices
which
are
more
or
less
durable.
Of
course
we
can
as
humans
use
it
less,
but
but
there
are
new
applications
in
the
original
talk
about.
D
B
So
we
can
yeah,
we
can
come
up
even
with
more
frugal
protocols,
but
but
more
frugal
implementations
means
more
opportunities
to
connect
more
people
and
then
providing
access
to
more
people
means
a
rebound
effect
of
well
having
more
units
of
this
more
efficient
device
that,
in
the
end,
might
have
a
the
opposite
effect
that
we
try
and
well.
We
have
to
decide
if
we
want
to
give
give
up
on
this
or,
let's
say
revolt
and
from
irtf.
B
D
B
So
that's
my
my
cry,
let's
say
to
to
focus
on
environmental
and
the
environmental
challenge,
because,
as
I
said
before
it,
we
only
have
one
opportunity
to
to
make
it
or
fail.
F
Okay,
I'm
michael
vetzel
am
I
up.
May
I
speak
okay.
Thank
you
very
much
for
this.
I
very
much
agree
that
this
is
important,
work
and
important
to
do.
I.
I
only
disagree
with
one
of
the
tiny
notes
that
you
have
already
put
there,
which
says
quick
versus
green.
F
I
think
that.
Well,
it's
not
just
thinking.
I
did
a
test
on
what
happens
with
with
wi-fi
devices,
and
it's
clear
I
mean
up
to
now
still
most
mobile
phones.
They
implement
a
relatively
simple
power
saving
scheme
where
you
would
or
other
wi-fi
devices
where
you
would
simply
after
a
couple
hundred
milliseconds
after
activity
go
into
sleep
mode.
F
So
I
did
simple
tests
with
you
know:
different
initial
window
values
and
using
a
window
of
10
instead
of
two
or
four
in
the
case
where
you
don't
have
any
packet
loss,
because
it's
not
always
better
right,
you
can
cut
energy
usage
by
something
in
the
order
of
twenty
thirty
percent,
so
it
doesn't
have
to
be
a
trade-off,
and
I
think
this
view
of
performance
versus
versus
being
green
as
a
trade-off,
I
think,
is,
is
what
partially
harms
activity
in
this
area
right,
because
I
don't
turn
on
power
saving
mode
on
my
phone,
because
it
hurts
my
performance
right,
as
I
I
think,
trying
to
combine
these.
B
Yeah,
thank
you
for
your
view.
I
I
tried
to
be
controversial
but
yeah.
I
agree
with
you
that
people
is
not
willing
to
degrade
significantly
their
performance
and
if
there
are
other
ways
we
must
follow
them.
I
know
I
mean
the
comment
of
quick
is:
can
be
quick
in
terms
of
fast
or
quick,
the
you
know
the
application
layer
http
just
like
yeah
but
yeah.
Thank
you.
G
Yes,
thank
you.
Thank
you
andrew.
This
is
such
a
wonderful
topic
very
dear
to
my
heart
and
I'm
so
glad
that
you
have
brought
it
up
so
as
somebody
from
ripe
ncc.
G
I
would
like
to
invite
you
to
speak
about
this
at
the
ripe
meeting,
which
is
coming
up
in
may
in
berlin,
and
we
also
have
a
sig
com
proposal
for
the
green
tech
internet
workshop,
and
if
you
would
love
like
to
be
our
speaker
there
or
participant,
we
will
send
you
an
invite
together
with
university
of
amsterdam,
colleagues
and
now,
not
speaking
as
a
ripening
employee,
but
as
a
planet
citizen.
B
You
would
say
you
would
go
for
evolution
with
r,
isn't
it.
B
Yeah
the
difficulty
is
always
like.
I
would
also
go
in
that
direction,
simply
because
evolution
sounds
like
it's.
It's
about
changing
the
growth,
not
simply
changing
the
sign
of
the
greece,
but
that
we
have
to
find
ways
to
to
make
it
work.
I
see
david
feel
free
to
speak.
H
Hi
david
oliver,
I
see
on
the
cambridge
university
bitcoin
electricity
consumption
index
that
last
year,
bitcoin
consumed
137
terawatts
of
electricity
about
one
percent
of
the
global
electricity
bill.
So
I
wonder
if
working
in
the
margins
on
this
is
something
working
on
something
on
cryptocurrency
algorithms
is
vastly
more
important
than
working
on
the
margins
on
what
we're
doing
on
devices.
B
Yeah,
I
agree
with
you
that
there
are
big
contributors
and
and
sounds
like
consensus.
Algorithms
in
in
bitcoin
and
and
cryptocurrency
have
a
margin
for
improvement,
a
huge
margin,
but
anyway,
I
think
it's
not
about
choosing
one,
let's
say
topic
and
focus
on
it
only,
but
we
have
to
identify
all
sources
for
savings,
probably
and
find
out
how
they
contribute
to
the
total
reduction
but
yeah
yeah.
A
good,
very
good
point.
B
C
C
C
In
the
chat
about
software
efficiency,
normally
we
build
software.
Without
regard
about
the
efficiency,
I
mean,
how
long
is
our
code,
how
how
times
it
trans
on
the
cpu
and
so
on,
and
this
is
really
a
substantial
problem
and
I'm
not
sure,
but
I
think
that
the
distributed
distributed
version
of
the
things
could
be
better,
but
not
always
we
we
have
to
take
to
keep
an
eye
on
this
on
that.
C
Well,
this
is
all
my
my
comments.
Thank
you
very
much.
B
Thank
you
so
much
yeah.
I
suppose
that
when,
when
people
work
on
iot
systems,
they
are
fully
of
the
limitations
of
the
device
energy
I
mean,
and
battery
power
and
cpu
power,
but
on
the
general
in
general,
without
I
mean
outside
the
iot
world,
we
assume
that
if
we
develop
software
hardware
will
will
come
and
provide
us
the
resources
to
do
so.
There
is
more
and
more
complexity
in
the
code.
B
That's
we
mean
that
hardware
can
manage
without
our
networks
can
manage
with
that,
and
if
we
think
that
climate
and
global
warming
is
it's
a
it's
a
boundary,
then
of
course
we
we
are
more
in
the
iot
mindset
than
in
the
in
the
future.
Hardware
will
provide
us
whatever
we
need,
whatever
we
propose
in
in
the
protocols
and
yeah.
I
agree
with
you
that
current
blockchain
systems
are
based
on
on
a
competition
to
consuming
energy
translated
to
cpu
power.
Well,
it
sounds
like
this
is
not
viable
or
it's
not
scalable.
B
We
cannot
say
that
this
model
of
computing
transactions
would
work
for
everyone
in
the
world.
If
everyone
would
we're
using
cryptocurrencies
for
every
monetary
transaction
in
our
planet.
Well
simply,
there
will
be
no
planet
already,
so
we
have
to
find
other
ways
to
provide
it
for
all,
which
is
the
topic
of
our
working
group.
B
Okay,
so
I
think
I
just
can
you
please
give
us
like
ideas
about
what
how
we
can
translate?
What
is
the
space
of
the
possible?
What
is
the
space
of
the
feasible,
so
we
can,
in
future
discussions
talk
about
concrete
proposals
that
might
help
to
get
there
or
close
to
there.
A
A
Muchuki's
presentation
is
on
sustainability
for
community
networks
mitsuki.
If
you're
ready,
we'll
give
you
20
minutes
for
your
prez
and
then
we'll
have
q
and
a
after.
E
We
can
hear
you,
okay,
all
right,
good!
Thank
you
and
good
morning,
good
afternoon
and
good
evening,
depending
on
where
you
are,
my
name
is
amichi
kimangi
from
the
internet
society,
and
today
I
would
like
to
cover
a
topic
that
has
been
is
increasingly
becoming
of
interest
to
us,
based
on
some
of
the
work
that
we
do
with
respect
to
making
community
networks
sustainable.
E
E
E
Traditional
business
models
that
are
used
to
connect
people
around
the
world
tend
not
to
scale
enough
to
connect
those
in
rural,
remote
and
underserved
areas,
and,
as
we've
seen
in
the
last
two
years,
there's
been
a
major
highlighting
of
the
connectivity
gap,
especially
when
situations
require
people
to
try
and
transition
to
using
connectivity
as
a
way
of
keeping
life
going
on
when
under
circumstances
such
as
lockdowns
and
so
on,
and
we've
seen
the
impact
that
has
had,
especially
in
emerging
markets
where
people
don't
have
access
at
home
and
so
usage
has
gone
down
and
we've
had.
E
E
So
community
networks
are
one
of
those
complementary
solutions
that
have
emerged
and
is
making
an
impact
with
respect
to
how
they
operate
because
they
are
built
by
and
for
the
communities
that
they
serve.
So
they
have
a
bottom-up
approach.
E
They
are
complementary
in
that
they
basically
are
built
in
locations
where
the
economics
for
the
traditional
operators
don't
really
work
well,
and
so
they
complement
where
traditional
operators
are
unable
to
go
for
various
reasons
and
also
they
largely
rely
on
the
community
and
the
local
champions
that
exist
in
those
areas
to
try
and
make
them
sort
of
be
more
resilient
to
the
challenges
that
the
traditional
business
most
deals
are
likely
to
face,
and
so
the
bottom
up
approach
tends
to
building
those
resiliency
factors
that
are
needed
to
make
them
sustainable
in
their
respective
environments.
E
E
First,
they
will
suddenly
vary
in
sizes
depending
on
the
the
community
they
are
trying
to
serve.
They
could
be
as
big
as
50
000
subscribers
or
more
like
wifi
in
in
in
barcelona,
and
it
could
be
as
few
as
50
people
in
a
very
small
village.
E
They
also
have
different
setups
in
terms
of
the
technology
that
they
use
largely
dependent
on
what
issues
they
are
trying
to
solve
for
the
community
that
they
serve
and
they
also
are
driven
by
or
the
reasons
of
being
established
will
vary
depending
on
what
they're
trying
to
solve.
For
so
some
of
them
will
be
trying
to
provide
alternative,
most
more
affordable
connectivity
solutions.
E
There
could
be
other
options
like
4g
and
so
on,
which
could
be
out
of
the
reach
of
the
people
that
are
in
the
in
the
area
and
so
they're
looking
for
something
alternative
or
complementary,
and
they
are
looking
for
more
less
autonomy
or
more
autonomy.
Sorry,
and
also
looking
to
gain
better
access,
based
on
what
is
available.
We've
seen
situations
where
they
only
have
3g,
but
it's
not
reliable.
E
People
have
to
go
to
certain
locations
in
the
area
to
just
get
access.
And
finally,
of
course,
they
also
designed
based
on
what
the
community
perceives
to
be
the
most
useful
structure
from
a
governance
perspective
that
will
work
for
them.
E
So
all
community
networks
are
basically
not
identical
because
of
these
factors
and
they,
but
they're
generally
underpinned
if
you
could
go
to
the
next
line
by
a
number
of
pillars
of
key
things
that
are
important
to
them.
First,
for
community
networks
to
emerge,
they
suddenly
need
an
enabling
regulatory
and
policy
framework,
and,
if
that
doesn't
exist,
it
becomes
harder
for
them
to
emerge.
E
E
E
So
if
we
go
to
the
next
slide,
we'll
look
at
the
challenges
that
community
networks
face
and
we've
tried
to
categorize
this
into
three
areas:
the
financial,
technical
and
regulatory,
the
financial
component
being
pretty
much
focused
on
the
ability
for
community
networks
to
bootstrap
from
the
beginning
to
be
able
to
operate
sustainably
and
also
be
able
to
grow
once
they
are
sustainable.
E
E
On
the
technical
side,
it's
pretty
much
about
the
technology
or
the
technical
know-how
that
they
have
the
expertise
that
they
have,
and
also
the
tools
and
software
sets
available
for
them
to
be
able
to
run,
manage
the
network
and
provide
a
good
quality
level
of
service
and
being
able
to
do
so
at
a
low
cost
and
finally,
on
the
regulatory
side
is
being
able
to
access
the
spectrum
or
that
they
need
or
the
resources
that
they
need
to
run
the
network,
but
also
having
an
environment
that
actually
allows
them
to
thrive
and
grow.
E
So
for
the
next
part,
I
want
to
focus
on
one
area
out
of
this
three
areas
under
technical,
which
is
the
open
source
solutions
that
are
really
important,
because
if
we
go
on
to
the
next
slide,
you
will
see
that
there
are
quite
a
number
of
tools
that
exist
open
source.
The
networks
have
actually
used
over
time
to
manage
the
network
to
provide
which
actually
enables
the
network
operators
to
provide
good
quality
services.
E
But
we
see
that
most
of
the
open
source
tools
that
are
mature,
stable
and
well
developed
tend
to
fall
in
one
category
which
were
on
the
network
management
side.
E
However,
when
we
go
to
the
authentication
and
accounting
side
or
the
billing
side,
then
we
start
seeing
some
sort
of
limitations
in
terms
of
the
tools
that
are
available,
open
source
tools
that
are
available,
especially
when
you're
looking
from
the
graphical
user
interface
side
to
sort
of
support.
Some
of
the
back-end
tools
that
already
exist.
An
example
here
is
that
we've
had
something
like
free
radius,
which
has
been
widely
deployed
across
many
service
provider
networks.
E
It's
very
stable,
very
reliable.
But
then,
when
you
look
at
the
front-end
tools
that
exist
to
manage
free
radius,
then
you
start
seeing
a
limitation
a
lot
of
them
going
to
the
commercial
or
the
I'll
say,
the
commercial
side
of
things
and
they're
not
entirely
cost
friendly.
If
I
could
put
it
that
way,
when
you're
looking
at
a
community
network's
perspective,
part
of
the
challenge
with
community
networks
is
that
the
areas
that
they
serve
may
not
have
the
scale
in
terms
of
number
of
users
to
be
able
to.
E
You
know,
be
able
to
turn
on
profitability
or
be
able
to
have
surpluses
within
a
very
short
time
turnaround
time,
and
so,
where
commercial
products
will
sort
of
easily
support
that
business
model.
The
community
network
model
does
tend
to
rely
on
a
lot
of
donations
and
grants,
and
so
on,
so
the
model
is
quite
different.
E
So
if
we
go
on
to
the
next
slide,
we've
tried
to
understand
why
it's
important.
Oh
sorry,
I
think
we
missed
a
slide
there.
E
So,
yes
to
understand
why
billing
solutions
are
important
for
cns,
of
course,
not
just
for
authentication
and
getting
people
connected,
but
for
them
to
be
able
to
generate
revenue
to
scale
their
growth
so
that
they
can
expand
the
network
to
cover
more
people
and
also
go
be
improve
their
sustainability
and
reduce
their
dependence
on
grants
and
donations,
which
is
basically
one
of
the
main
sources
of
which
they
used
to
deploy
the
initial
phase
of
the
community
network.
E
So
what
are
the
things
that
we've
been
trying
to
look
for
in
our
us
building
solution
for
community
networks?
So
we've
tried
to
highlight
a
couple
of
items
in
the
next
slide
and
those
items
that
are
key
or
seem
to
be
important
for
community
networks
is
support
for
the
main
protocols
that
are
used
radius,
ppoe,
l2tp
and
hotspots.
E
They
are
suddenly
looking
for
a
simplified
graphical
user
interface.
Some
of
the
tools
that
exist
do
require
a
high
level
of
knowledge
on
assessment
administration
from
medium
to
advanced
level.
E
Ease
of
deployment
basically
is
also
another
thing.
That's
needed,
and
also
the
deployment
on
low
powered
hardware.
Most
community
networks,
especially
those
in
rural
and
underserved
areas,
tend
to
deal
with
power
issues,
and
so
a
lot
of
the
equipment
are
low
powered
devices.
So
anything
that
can
be
deployed
on
a
simple
as
a
raspberry,
pi
or
something
similar
in
terms
of
a
low
power
device.
E
We
had
a
session
earlier
this
year
with
a
number
of
community
networks,
and
the
session
was
about
billing
solutions,
and
most
of
some
of
the
questions
that
they
ask
is
what
are
the
available
open
source
solutions
that
they
could
easily
take
on
and
deploy,
but
they
will
develop
commercial
ones
of
some
that
have
a
gradual
growth
path,
but
the
costing
model
is
suddenly
out
of
reach
for
the
current
set
of
community
networks
that
we
are
working
with.
So
we
are
certainly
looking
for
options
that
we
can
recommend
to
them.
E
And
if
you
go
on
to
the
next
slide,
you'll
see
that
we
still
have
lots
of
new
and
existing
community
networks.
We
would
like
to
support
this
year,
certainly
more
over
the
coming
years,
and
so
we'll
suddenly
be
interested
to
see.
What's
out
there
what's
available
what
you've
had
new
so
that
we
can
integrate
this
as
well.
E
If
it
does
require
training
to
be
able
to
integrate
that
into
the
training
that
we
are
offering
and
and
also
work
with
various
stakeholders,
to
make
sure
that
this
is
an
element
that
we're
able
to
address
and
make
sure
that
community
networks
are
able
to
thrive
and
grow.
So
I'll
stop
there.
And
if
you
do
have
comments,
I'm
happy
to
take
them
and
any
suggestions
that
you
or
recommendations
that
you
can
offer.
B
I
Okay,
can
you
hear
me
yeah,
yeah,
okay,
so
community
networks
were
pretty
well
were
a
big
hope
in
europe
in
the
2000s
and
the
dynamic
seems
to
have
died
out,
so
they
still
exist,
but
there
are
no
further
developments.
I
attribute
that
to
the
availability
of
cheap
cellular
internet.
I
D
E
Enabling
we
are
seeing
them
coming
up
and
so
through
the
activities
that
we
do
in
our
engagements
with
them.
These
are
now
becoming
the
questions
that
they
are
asking
so
that
networking
tools,
network
monitoring
tools
are
available,
but
the
billing
solution
tools
are
a
bit
of
a
challenge
for
them.
E
It's
part
of
skill
issue,
but
also
looking
at
where
they
are.
They
may
not
be
able
to
retain
highly
skilled,
systematic
means
in
rural
areas,
because
the
moment
you
develop
their
skills,
they
lose
the
people
to
bigger
networks
that
are
able
to
pay
more,
and
so
we're
suddenly
looking
for
tools
that
will
be
able
to
be
low
in
terms
of
their
skill
level
requirements
not
high
level
just
medium
to
low
to
medium
skill
level,
to
be
able
to
operate
and
maintain
those
kind
of
systems.
A
I
joined
this
year
yeah
and
just
to
support
what
machu
ki
saying
julius,
there's
quite
a
lot
of
been
a
resurgence
in
the
work
and
community
and
municipal
networks
around
the
world.
A
I
work
in
that
space
as
well
and
we're
seeing
actually
an
interesting
resurgence
in
the
united
states
believe
it
or
not,
with
municipal
networks,
open
source,
open
access
networks,
muni
networks,
there's
been
an
interesting
there's,
a
political
dynamic.
Here
too,
of
course,
where
some
places
don't
allow
musical
networks.
So
you
have
to
work
with
electrical
co-ops,
so
the
term
and
that's
in
the
u.s
in
17
of
the
50
states,
there's
been
a
lobbying
force
in
some
of
the
industry
that
went
against
community
networks
and
municipal
networks,
but
you're.
A
Tribal
communities
in
the
united
states
didn't
have
access
to
spectrum
right
for
many
many
years
on
their
own
terms
and
their
own
licensing
mechanisms.
So
you're
seeing
changes.
Brazil
liberalized
the
entire
six
gigahertz
band
to
be
unlicensed
so
that
there
could
be
more
network
activity
at
that
local
level
to
have
more
networks
come
in.
These
are
not
insignificant
networks.
A
In
any
event,
there's
lots
out
there
and
there's
some
new
work
being
done
on
on
the
business
models,
so
to
point
out
the
focus
that
was
talking
about
on
the
costs
and
how
to
look
at
different
business
models
and
for
sustainability
factors.
So
stay
tuned.
There's
a
lot
of
good
data
out
there
on
the
resurgence
in
muni
and
community
and
other
small
networks.
I
guess
you
could
call
them
non-traditional
operators.
B
Thank
you
jane.
I'm
also
on
thecube
also
to
comment
about
this
topic,
but
I
think
the
importance
of
focusing
on
community
networks
is
that
there
must
be
other
business
models
than
the
operator
model.
The
for
profit
model,
because
simply
there
are
places
where
there
is
no
economic
margin
for
to
attract
the
operator
models.
But
it
there
is
already
a
lot
of
social
margin
to
benefit
the
community
from
connectivity
and
then,
if
there
is
a
way
that
that
a
community,
a
collective
can
get
connectivity
when
individual
connectivity
is
not
viable.
B
That
is
in
the
core
of
community
networks
and
in
fact
it
is
sometimes
mentioned
as
very
big.
But
it
is
started
and
it
continues
to
be
a
federation
of
local
initiatives.
B
Backhoe
connection,
so
so
this
collective
connectivity
is
it's
it's
an
important
element
and
what
michoud
mentioned
it's
in
general,
the
the
tragedy
of
the
of
free
open
software.
Sometimes
they
call
it
software
commons
and
then
in
community
networks.
B
There
are
interesting
examples
like
libre,
router
or
libra
server
in
which
well,
there
is
a
struggle
to
find
funds
to
keep
the
developers
and
and
benefit
many
communities
that
without
that
software
and
those
tools,
they
will
not
be
able
to
really
set
up
a
viable
sustainable
network,
both
in
technology,
wise
and
also
in
economic
terms.
E
Thank
you,
leandra
and
jean
those
are
really
good
points
that
you've
made
and
we'll
keep
looking
and
discussing
various
forums,
but
in
case
you
hear,
our
contacts
of
the
people
who
are
working
on
these
projects
are
on
the
screen,
so
feel
free
to
send
us
a
note
and
we'll
follow
up
with
you.
Thank
you.
B
G
Hi,
so
I'm
happy
to
be
here,
I'm
vesna.
I
work
for
rypncc
as
a
community
builder.
G
Yes,
so
yeah
next
slide,
so
this
presentation
is
going
to
well
normally,
it's
the
the
content
is
mostly
about
the
traditional
internet
and
the
infrastructure,
but
my
focus
will
be
on
people,
because
this
is
who
is
mostly
impacted
with
the
war
which
is
going
on
in
ukraine.
G
G
And
I'm
speaking
here
on
behalf
of
my
colleagues
who
had
done
a
lot
of
work
in
documenting
what
is
happening
with
the
networks
in
ukraine,
you
can
see
here
their
photos,
emile
aban
is
a
data
scientist
and
here
he's
pictured
as
measuring
the
internet.
G
He
couldn't
be
here
today
because
he's
working
on
the
next
analysis,
which
will
be
about
the
impact
or
like
how
does
the
russian
internet
infrastructure
is
weathering
the
the
war
and
and
also
because
his
two
sons
are
having
their
birthday
party
today,
so
he
prioritized
small
humans
to
being
online
with
us,
but
I
can
bring
all
the
questions
that
you
have
and
that
I
cannot
answer.
I
can
bring
them
to
him
and
the
the
second
co-author
of
this
work
is
alex.
G
G
So
the
all
the
information
and
the
links
and
the
graphs
you
can
find
in
the
articles,
the
my
talk
today
will
mostly
be
about
the
most
recent
article,
which
is
about
the
resilience
of
the
internet.
So
actually
looking
at
the
infrastructure
after
the
three
weeks
of
the
war,
and
then
there
will
be
a
little
bit
about
the
outages
which
is
described
in
the
previous
article,
which
was
about
the
beginning
of
the
war.
G
If
you
are
curious
about
how
the
internet
used
to
look
like
in
2019,
then
there
are
also
slides
from
alex
that
he
gave
at
another
conference,
and
you
can
also
access
them
through
here,
and
my
work
was
about
the
resilience
of
the
networkers
during
the
covet
pandemic,
and
it
is
still
very
relevant
that
we
need
to
take
care
of
each
other
and
take
care
of
our
needs
of
our
physical
health,
mental
health
and
human
connections,
and
not
only
making
sure
that
the
network
connections
are
working
next.
G
So
the
elements
that
I'm
going
to
cover
in
a
little
bit
more
detail,
so
the
first
of
all,
as
I
said,
the
human
connections
and
dedication
of
the
network
operators
in
ukraine
and
their
courage
and
perseverance
in
staying
in
the
country
and
doing
their
work
and
fixing
the
infrastructure.
G
Then
the
two
next
elements
are
the
decentralization
of
their
market
of
the
internet
service
providers
and
then
a
presence
of
large
amount
of
internet
exchange
points.
Then
there
was.
There
is
also
something
that
we
didn't
cover
too
much.
But
you
can
see
it
also
following
this
link,
which
is
the
interconnection
of
ukraine
as
a
country
to
the
transit
providers,
and
that
has
been
measured
by
the
internet
health
report,
a
project
that
is
independent
from
the
ripe
ncc.
G
G
So
this
graph
shows
this
graph
is
actually
based
on
the
ripe
atlas
and
a
short
introduction
to
what
the
ripe
atlas
is.
This
is
a
measurement
project
that
is
now
older
than
10
years
by
the
ripe
ncc.
It
consists
of
10
000
and
more
hardware
devices
and
in
the
last
three
years
also
software
probes.
G
The
hardware
devices
are
hosted
in
the
people's
houses
and
data
centers,
so
at
the
edges
of
the
network
and
also
close
to
the
infrastructure,
and
they
do
continuous
pings
trace
routes,
dns
lookups
and
few
other
measurements
towards
root,
name
servers,
and
we
collect
this
data
and
publish
it
as
an
open
data
that
anybody
can
analyze,
and
we
also
do
a
lot
of
analysis
ourselves
and
also
all
the
hosts
that
are
providing
the
connectivity
and
electricity
to
these
small
devices
in
their
locations.
G
They
can
use
the
other
10
000
probes
to
perform
their
own
measurements,
and
that
also
adds
to
the
open
data.
So
this
is
a
great
project.
However,
it
has
its
limitations
because
it's
only
measuring
where,
like
the
lowest
layers
of
the
infrastructure
and
because
we
don't
do
the
http
measurement,
so
we
don't
measure
the
web.
We
really
measure
only
the
internet,
connectivity
and
so
at
some
point,
emil
created
this
kind
of
overlay.
G
So
on
this
circle,
he
visualizes
only
the
companies
that
have
more
than
one
percent
of
the
user
base
within
that
country.
So
here
you
can
see
that
that
actually
only
visualizes
45
of
all
the
companies,
which
means
there
is
another
55
percent,
which
is
not
visualized,
which
are
really
really
small
providers,
and
so
the
the
strong,
the
the
green
ones
are
where
we
do
have
ripatis
probes
and
the
other
ones
we
actually
don't
have
covered.
And
so
this
is
a
call
for
the
people
from
other
countries
to
actually
deploy
these
devices.
G
If
you
are
interested
in
the
measurements
about
your
own
country,
and
so
this
is
like
a
technical
side,
but
then
he
also
looked
into
the
economy
and
the
market
and
he
looked
into
something
called
hh
index,
which
stands
for
two
very
difficult
names
which
I'm
not
going
to
pronounce
and
so
based
on
this
index.
Ukraine
is
the
fourth
in
the
world,
so
there
is
very
little
market
concentration.
G
In
other
words,
the
the
market
is
very,
very
decentralized,
so
that
makes
it
very
resilient,
because
if
one
provider
is
impacted,
then
the
the
traffic
can
move
to
the
all
the
other
providers,
and
so
this
sounds
like
really
great,
but
still
it
makes
me
really
sad
to
think
that
this
resilience
had
to
be
tested
and
that
these
providers
are
still
going
offline
because
of
the
war.
So
it's
really
hard
to
talk
about
this
in
this
kind
of
cold
technological
terms,
while
that
actually
means
that
there
are
people
there
being
hurt.
G
Okay,
so
this
is
also
super
interesting.
I
didn't
know
this
about
ukraine
before
we
started
doing
this
analysis,
and
that
is
that
they
have
19
internet
exchange
points.
G
So
that's
a
really
a
very
large
number
and
that
those
are
the
internet
exchange
points
registered
in
the
peering
db.
However,
ipotless
only
sees
13
of
them,
and
so
we
have
this
other
project
that
emil
created,
which
is
ixp
country,
jedi,
and
so
again
this
is
a
probe
mesh
and
it
shows
the
paths
and
it
shows
like
do
they
traverse
an
internet
exchange
point
and
do
they
stay
within
a
country.
G
So
that's
a
different
visualization
which
you
can
find
if
you
follow
on
the
slides,
and
so
there
is
13
of
them
and
they're
all
differently,
color
coded,
so
you
can
see
that
there
is
quite
a
like
diversity
of
colors
on
this
graph,
and
so
that
means
also
there
isn't
one
dominant
internet
exchange
point
like
all
of
them
are
very
much
in
use
and
they
provide
a
lot
of
interconnectivity
and
oh
okay.
The
the
last
part
of
the
slide
is,
is
a
mistake,
so
ignore
that
so
can
we
go
to
the
next
one.
G
Yeah,
so
now
we
go
to
the
a
little
bit
less
positive
outcomes
of
of
our
analysis,
so
you
could
see
the
damage
that
that
the
at
the
beginning
of
the
war
the
infrastructure
had
experienced,
and
so
this
is
one
of
the
providers,
and
this
is
like
we
have
had
15
probes
there
and
then
a
lot
of
them
got
disconnected
and
slowly
went
up
after
a
while
and
yeah
you
can.
G
You
can
read
more
details
and
see
it
for
yourself
if
you
follow
the
links
in
the
article
which
is
in
this
page
and
the
next
slide,
please
so
again,
the
bottom
slide
shows
or
the
decrease
over
time
of
the
number
of
connected
probes.
G
But,
as
I
said,
we
are
mostly
focused
on
the
on
the
physical
infrastructure
and
so
for
the
mobile
connectivity.
We
have
portrait
data
from
cloudflare
and
you
could
also
see
there
that
the
people,
when
they
started
moving
away
from
their
houses
traveling
as
escaping
as
refugees
or
just
yeah
the
houses
got
destroyed.
Then
connectivity
moved
more
to
the
mobile
connections
next
slide.
Please.
G
Yes,
so
there
was
other
people
reporting
on
what
is
happening
in
in
ukraine
and
again
this
is
more
of
a
human
aspect,
so
they
were
julian.
Oliver
commented
on
emil's
article
on
twitter
that
it
it
takes
diversity
and
solidarity
to
to
keep
the
internet
up
and
running,
and
then
there
are
other
people
who
are
situated
in
ukraine
who
who
share
the
photos
of
how
the
physical
infrastructure
is
being
repaired
and
how
the
competitors
help
each
other.
G
So
it's
yeah,
it's
more
than
the
market
forces
that
that
make
these
people
want
to
keep
their
customers
connected.
G
It
is
yeah
they're
understanding
how
important
the
internet
is
in
the
in
the
lives
of
people
to
stay
connected
to
their
families
and
to
receive
the
news,
so
they
are
helping
each
other,
even
if
they
are
competitors
in
a
commercial
sense.
G
And
I
think
I
have
only
two
more
slides,
so
this
is
an
initiative
created
by
nog
alliance
network
operators,
group
group.
G
They
started
collecting
equipment
and
and
and
monetary
donations
to
help
the
network
operators
in
ukraine
and
they
got
in
touch
with
them,
so
they
are
really
knowing
specifically,
which
equipment
which
tools
are
needed
and
where
and
so
shipping
them
from
western
europe
towards
the
border
and
then
being
met
there
with
the
operators
in
the
country
and
yeah
distributing
the
equipment
which
which
has
been
damaged.
G
So
if
you
would
like
to
help-
and
you
are
a
techie-
you
can
yeah,
you
can
check
it
out
how
this
works
and
if
you
are
interested
in
some
other
way
of
helping
like
with
more
like
community
building
and
humanitarian
help
in
amsterdam
and
in
holland.
We
have
a
lot
of
initiatives,
so
you
can
get
in
touch
with
me.
G
On
the
other
hand,
I
really
have
to
get
out
of
this
frame
of
mind
of
like
charity
and
help
in
that
sense,
because,
as
you
can
see
on
the
quote
on
the
next
slide,
it's
not
about
being
like
getting
there
and
helping
it's
about
mutual
aid
and
solidarity,
because
our
our
liberation,
our
revolution
as
alejandro
said,
depends
on
all
of
us
being
helping
each
other.
G
A
Now,
how
do
people
get
sorry
to
jump
the
cube.
H
A
G
A
Thank
you
so
much
and
the
nugs
for
networkers.
Do
you
have
a
link
for
to
the
team
there
I'll.
D
D
Okay,
so
in
other
words,
how
closely
did
the
ixps
themselves
collaborate
versus
you
know
in
cases
where
individual
isps
are
connected
to
multiple
exchanges
here
in
india,
it's
very
common
for
even
a
small
to
medium
isp
to
sometimes
have
two
different
hearings
with
two
different
ixps,
but
the
ixp's
themselves
don't
seem
to
have
as
much
interest
in
peering
across
their
you
know,
infrastructure.
D
G
G
D
Only
exception
here
in
india
is
we
have
a
a
state
sponsored
or
government-sponsored
isp
group
called
nixi.
The
national,
inter
exchange
of
india,
which
has
you
know,
plans
to
bring
up
at
least
a
dozen
inter
exchange
points,
and
all
of
them
are
interconnected,
though
they
don't
have
as
much
penetration
and
connectivity
with
local
isps
as
the
commercial
ix
points
do.
D
G
I
believe
that
there
isn't.
I
think,
that
these
are
all
like
individual
ixps
and
if
you
okay,
I
will,
I
will
put
this
link
in
there
so
like
jedi.tribe.net
there,
you
can
actually
go
and
see
in
more
detail
the
names
of
all
of
these
isps
and
also
a
different
visualization.
G
This
one
yeah
shows
like
them
each
one
individually,
but
then
we
have
another
one
which
shows
how
the
what
is
the
percentage
of
all
the
probes
that
go
through
any
ixp,
but
note
what
you're
asking
for,
because
I
think
that
is
not
usually
the
case
like
how
do
they
connect
to
each
other?
G
G
I
want
to
say
for
the
people
who
are
in
person
at
itf,
my
colleague
tees
is
also
there,
although
he's
waving.
So
if
you
have
any
questions
for
anybody
in
the
ripe
ncc,
please
approach
him
and
then
we'll
talk
to
him
when
he
comes
back
to
amsterdam.
B
Thank
you
very
much
so
having
no
one
in
the
in
the
place
in
the
queue
and
no
no
one
in
the
queue
in
in
mythical.
We
can
thank
you
again
and
and
move
to
the
next
presentation.
B
So
into
the
program
we
had
one
more
presentation
from
dmitry,
but
I
haven't
oh
yeah.
I
I
see
you
there
dmitry
you
are
connected,
so
you
can
unmute
yourself
and
let
us
know
if
you
are
planning
to
share
your
screen
or
or
I
can
do
it
for
you.
A
A
B
So
in
the
meanwhile,
if
anyone
has
any
general
comment
about
any
of
the
presentations,
we
had
today
feel
free
to
queue
and
comment.
B
B
A
Dimitri,
can
you
hear
us,
can
you
unmute
so
we
know
that
you're
there
we
see
you
in
the
queue
I
mean
in
the
participants
list.
B
B
Well,
as
I
said,
while
we
wait
any
general
comment.
B
Any
announcement,
perhaps
I
saw
the
hrpc
people
in
in
in
the
audience.
Maybe
you
can
you
can
give
us
a
teaser
about
what's
gonna
be
discussed
just
tomorrow.
At
the
same
time,
I
think
in
the
hrpc
working
group.
J
Hey
leandro,
hey
jane
thanks
for
that
yeah
tomorrow,
hrpc
is
meeting
in
the
first
session.
We
have
two
speakers.
The
first
is
from
erickson
john
matson
is
going
to
talk
about
the
5g
standard,
but
is
focusing
on
the
privacy,
lawful
access
surveillance
issues
with
specification,
which
should
be
quite
interesting.
The
second
speaker
is
from
witness,
which
is
a
ngo
based
in
new
york.
It's
been
around
for
30
plus
years,
that
does
media
alternative
media
activism
and
they
are
presenting
on
the
c2pa
standard.
J
I'm
not
going
to
remember
the
acronym
at
this
stage
in
the
morning,
but
c2pa
is
an
effort.
It's
an
association
coalition
effort
led
by
adobe
to
at
sort
of
a
bare
minimum
update,
exif
data
for
images,
but
at
you
know
the
ideal
is
actually
to
create
some
manifest.
J
I
guess
documentation
of
where
images
originate.
So
it's
about
trust
in
media
sources.
So
that'll
also
be
interesting
because
it's
a
you
know,
as
as
we
know
from
certificate
authorities,
and
things
like
that.
Trust
in
the
digital
landscape
is
hard
and
doesn't
always
mean
what
we
think
it
means.
So
those
are
the
two
and
then,
of
course,
we
have
our
work
items
for
the
group,
we'll
be
talking
about
guidelines
for
reviewers
and
authors
of
internet
drafts
and
the
ietf
and
the
irtf
on
human
rights
protocol
considerations
and
how
they
can
action.
J
So
for
those
who
miss
the
end
area
presentation,
you
can
come
to
hrpc
and
I
imagine
that
the
quality
of
the
discussion
on
can
censorship,
be
a
good
thing.
Question
mark
will
be
an
interesting
one
for
sure.
Thanks
a
lot
for
that
plug,
we
hope
to
see
you
there
and
thanks
for
hosting
today's
meeting.
It's
been
really
interesting.
B
E
C
K
B
B
To
share
and
I'm
granting
several.
D
K
E
B
No
I'm
gonna
reload,
my
page
in
case
because
I
clicked
on
on
grant
several
times.
A
A
Can
you
enter
dimitri?
Can
you
introduce
yourself
just
briefly
so
folks
know
who
you
are.
K
Okay,
so
hello,
everybody
good
morning
like
it
is
here
good
afternoon
good
evening.
My
name
is
dmitry
vitalia,
I'm
the
founding
director
of
an
organization
called
equality.
K
Feel
free
to
start
yes,
okay,
thank
you.
So,
just
very
briefly,
some
of
the
qualities
projects
include
ddos
mitigation
infrastructure
such
as
deflect
and
technology
to
circumvent
internet
censorship,
such
as
the
sino
project
and
the
suno
project,
uses
decentralized.
Networking
is
built
on
return
protocols
and
allows
people
not
only
to
request
content,
which
may
otherwise
be
censored
in
a
particular
network,
but
thereafter
it
allows
people
to
share
this
content
with
each
other
peer-to-peer
and
I'm
talking
about
this
project,
because
it
has
a
relevance
to
the
presentation
later
on.
K
K
This
school
has
worked
with
local
media
and
various
types
of
civil
society
for
many
years
now,
and
was
one
of
the
reasons
why
the
organization,
myself
personally,
were
interested
in
what
was
happening
in
ukraine
during
the
last
several
years.
K
K
And
it
felt
that
remotely
in
expectation
of
what
was
to
come,
we
imagined
a
battlefield
scenario
whereby
a
prolonged
period
of
invasion
would
lead
to
destruction
of
also
destruction
of
internet
infrastructure.
K
Most
people
who
I
spoke
with
were
also
concerned
by
the
possible
risk
of
certain
disconnections.
However,
internet
service
providers
were
quite
confident
that
the
variety
of
connectivity
should
be
sufficient
to
withstand
most
attempts
against
the
network.
K
However,
what
was
quite
obvious
when
studying
the
network
in
ukraine
was
that
quite
a
lot
of
reliance
was
built
on
certain
ixps
being
available
being
online,
particularly
in
kiev,
and
also
when
you
live.
K
And
unfortunately,
this
did
happen
and
it's
continuing
to
happen
in
various
towns
and
cities
of
ukraine.
K
Open
source
solutions
and
decentralized
communications,
what
we
knew
is
that.
K
K
K
Now
this
was
actually
a
little
bit
harder
than
I
expected,
and
I
think
we
find
this
more
and
more
in
countries
around
the
world
where
not
only
connectivity,
but
a
lot
of
the
data
centers
are
concentrated
in
a
few
big
cities
in
a
few
sort
of
central
points
around
the
country.
I
think
it
was
kind
of
similar
situation
in
ukraine,
even
though
there
were
several
thousand
isps
providing
last
leg.
Connectivity.
K
And
web
browsing
tools,
one
of
our
tools
as
well
cno,
which
allows
people
to
access
web
content
that
is
stored
in
a
distributed
cache
among
others,
we're
also
hoping
to
add
so
decentralized
and
federated
social
media
tools
and
other
chat
messaging
in
the
near
future.
K
K
K
K
Now,
as
we
were
developing
and
growing
the
service
it
had
appeared,
or
it
had
become
apparent
that
the
invading
forces
russia
was
also
clamping
down
on
its
own
network,
but
trying
to
control
the
information,
the
propaganda
it
was
feeding
to
its
own
citizens.
There
was
no
war
and
that
there
was
no
heavy
bombing
and
destruction
of
life.
K
Now,
in
order
to
do
this,
they
had
begun
to
implement
what
is
called
the
sovereign
internet.
K
Nobody
really
knew
where
the
complete
disconnection
was
possible,
but
what
we're
seeing
now
is
that
not
and
other
various
bodies
are
moving
slowly,
maybe
not
so
slowly,
but
surely
towards
this
goal
already
with
a
huge
amount
of
international
resources,
including
you
know,
all
of
meta,
facebook,
instagram,
twitter
and
many
other
services
being
blocked
for
access
from
within
russia
and
in
reverse,
we've
seen
quite
a
large
number
of
network
carriers
and
various
platforms
blocking
access
to
russians
as
well.
So
we
kind
of
see
this
disconnection
on
both
sides
of
the
border.
K
K
We
do
want
to
show
an
example
of
how
this
can
be
done
and
hope
that
people
interested
in
doing
this
can
replicate
these
services
can
stand
up
more
federated
instances,
either
connected
to
this
one,
technically
speaking
or
branding
wise
or
completely
separate.
K
K
So,
in
summary,
as
I
was
telling
the
andrew
we're
not
really
inventing
any
new
technology
here,
that
was
the
point
of
our
intervention.
We
had
to
move
very
quickly
and
we
had
to
deploy
existing
services.
K
And
we
want
to
kind
of
plant
the
seed
that
another
internet
is
possible.
We
want
to
plant
the
seed
not
only
with
the
tech
community
who
already
understands
this,
but
with
average
users,
which
is
why
we
have
created
the
sort
of
index
page
a
way
to.
K
We're
looking
for
all
sorts
of
technical
contributions
of
people
who
are
interested,
the
code
is
open,
the
project
is
open
and
unfortunately,
the
times
have
propelled
this
type
of
technology
into
something
which
is
becoming
not
only
relevant,
but
maybe
else.
B
Thank
you
so
much
amitri,
it's
not
only
that
another
internet
is
possible,
but
it
it
seems
to
work
and
and
it's
helping
people
to
communities
affected
by
the
war.
I
K
Well,
russia,
the
primary
body.
K
I
K
I
mean
I'm
aware
of
that
happening
periodically
in
the
past
and,
as
I
was
trying
to
say
that
not
also
develops
mandates
for
isps
to
implement
various
types
of
blocking
on
the
provided
infrastructure.
K
I
K
Why
mean
look
I'll
just
answer
briefly?
Maybe
not
exactly
all
methods
of
circumventing
existing
blockages
are
also
being
eliminated
at
the
moment,
so,
whether
they're
going
after
doh
or
other
methods
of
bittorrent
connectivity
in
order
to
implement
a
severn
network,
you
have
to
eliminate
all
methods
of
getting
around
your
blockages.
So
this
probably
an
extenuation
of
that.
D
I
was
just
saying,
probably
when
you're
talking
of
a
massive
amount
of
udp
blocking
it's
probably
also
targeted
at
protocols
like
fire
guard,
which
is
becoming
you
know
the
vpn
platform
of
choice
for
a
large
number
of
vpn
providers.
You
know
because
of
its
reasonably
light
footprint
and
I've
actually
seen
cases
where
he's
on
the
corporate
side,
not
on
the
sovereign
side,
but
many
corporate
firewall
systems
now
explicitly
tend
to
filter
and
block
out
udp
traffic
to
prevent
fire
guard
sessions
from
being
a
vector
to
filtrate
information.
D
B
Okay,
so
if
there
are
no
other
questions,
thank
you
so
much
for
all
the
presentations
today.
You
know
that
there
is
a
mailing
list.
If
you
want
to
discuss
further,
I
left
that
idea
board.
If
you
want
to
provide
some
ideas
about
how
to
make
the
internet
environmentally
friendly
or
to
contribute
to
it.
Of
course,
it's
not
many
other
areas
where
it
can
be.
B
There
are
many
areas
of
of
improvement,
of
course,
but
ours
is
the
internet.
Well,
I
I
don't
know
if
jane,
you
want
to
say
some
closing
words.
B
A
A
comment
from
yeah
just
to
quick,
ask
dmitry:
if
people
wanted
to
contact
you,
could
you
pop
a
way
to
do
that
into
the
chat
really
interesting
presentations
today,
and
I
think
it
it
speaks
to
the
importance
of
this
is
a
personal
perspective.
Obviously
bottom-up
ixp
development,
more
data,
centers
dimitria
or
you
know,
and
just
more
connectivity
in
general,
and
so
just
thank
you
to
leandro,
to
vesna,
to
machuki,
to
dimitri
and
to
everyone
that
has
contributed
in
the
chat,
we're
keen
to
keep
promoting
a
global
internet
for
all.
A
And
so,
if
we
rasheed
do
you
do
you
have
a
comment
before
we
close.
A
A
D
Yeah,
so
I
was
wondering
if
you
have
the
time
under
any
other
business.
At
the
end,
I
thought
I
would
like
to
bring
up
a
small
introduction
to
the
n50
project,
because
that's
very
closely
aligned
with
the
goals
of
this
working
group
and
it's
a
project
that
I'm
actively
involved
with
promoting
digital
connectivity
and
literacy
for
the
remaining
50
percent
of
the
world's
population
that
is
either
under
served
or
under
you
know,
literate
in
terms
of
being
connected
with
the
global
commons
via
the
internet.
A
We
we
may
not
have
enough
time
for
you
rajiv,
so
I
wonder
if
it's
possible,
do
you
have
a
presentation
you
could
pop
into
the
gaia
chat
and
we
could
try
and
hold
another
online
gaia
in
between
this?
I.
A
D
Believe
that
this
is
something
that
might
make
sense
to
maybe
push
forward
to
one
one.
Fourth,
you
know
I'm
happy
to
plan
that
out,
because
we're
actually
shortly
in
the
process
of
going
live
at
a
pilot
site
in
sub-saharan
africa
in
zambia.
So
we
should
actually
have
some
real
community
engagement
statistics
to
present
by
the
next
meeting,
if
you
believe
that's
appropriate.
A
Absolutely
it
would
be
great,
so
could
we
kindly
ask
you
to
help
us
so
that.
D
You
know,
hopefully,
target
a
presentation
for
the
next
meeting
excellent,
but
I've
already
put
the
link
in
the
chat.
So
if
anyone's
interested,
please
do
go,
have
a
look
at
it.
It
is
a
pretty
large
initiative,
I
think,
spearheaded
mostly
by
intel.
They
are
the
ones
who
are
kind
of
driving
this
at
the
moment
up
through,
though,
there's
involvement
from
tell
and
geeks
without
frontiers
and
a.
B
A
Okay,
we
would
be
more
than
happy
to
have
you
speak
at
the
next
gaia
and
leandra
and
I'll
work
with
you
on
how
to
do
that.
You
can
join
quite
easily
and
if
you
need
to
you,
can
just
email
either
of
us.
I'm
yeah.
A
Awesome-
and
there
are
quite
a
few
people
in
that
mailing
list
who
do
some
work
in
sub-saharan
and
around
the
planet,
so
you'll
find
a
really
receptive
audience,
and
that
would
be
great
great.
A
Okay
again,
thank
you
to
everyone
and
thank
you
for
the
active
participation
from
the
audience.
Thank
you
to
everyone
in
the
room.
Thank
you
to
colin,
who
has
been
humoring
us
and
helping
us
go
from
what
we
thought.
Some
of
us
could
be
there
in
vienna,
but
we're.
I
think
we
did
a
wonderful
job
and
thank
you
to
meet
echo
the
team
for
all
of
their
help.
A
We
couldn't
do
this
without
you
and
thank
you
very
much
to
the
ietf
secretariat
and
everyone
who's
working
hard
behind
the
scenes,
because
we
know
this
is
the
first
time
we've
had
a
hybrid
event
and
it
seemed
to
have
gone
really
well,
at
least
from
my
side,
watching
from
this
end,
leandro
anything
else
from
your
side.
B
No,
I
subscribe
every
every
single
word
and
a
pleasure
to
meet
you
all
and
share
all
our
concerns
and
solutions
and
challenges
and
see
you
see
you
soon
face
to
face.
Hopefully.
A
Yes
and
help
us
contribute
on
the
gaia
list
and
if
necessary,
we
could
stand
up
an
informal
vid
session
if
people
want
it,
but
anyway,
thank
you
so
much
to
everybody
and
have
a
good
rest
of
the
ietf
for
those
on
the
ground
and
those
participating
remotely
and
a
plug
for
the
hrpc.
The
mallory's
group
that
will
be
meeting
soon
enough.