Internet Engineering Task Force 113, 20 Mar 2022

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From YouTube: IETF113-EMODIR-20220320-1130

Description

EMODIR meeting session at IETF113
2022/03/20 1130

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/113/proceedings/

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Give people a few minutes.

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Hey greg if people turn on their video, do they appear in this room on.

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Okay, oh there's.

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That screen well done.

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Good to know we'll get started in just a minute if you have not yet uh logged in. Please do so that you get on the attendance sheet.

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And if you know how to get to the data tracker and get to the agenda page, you can log into the full client that qr code will get you to the simplified client. But if you'd like to see the chat room, you can log in on your laptop.

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Just giving people a few more minutes to float into the room.

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All right, I think we should probably get started.

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Welcome everybody to ietf 113 and to the newcomers overview and new comers in this sense means. If you haven't been to too many meetings, this is more or less the. How do I get involved and start participating in a meeting and be most effective?

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This is going to be our first hybrid meeting, both in person and remote. So we'll see how this presentation goes. It should be very interesting. I'm pete resnick I've been around in the ietf for quite some time. My gray hair is probably uh indicating as such and I'll try and walk you through this and give you some overview of how participation goes.

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uh There are assorted people in the room and remote who are on our education.

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uh What uh emo education, mentoring and outreach uh group uh if those people can raise their hands and wave about or turn your video on to say, hi uh greg's in the back there there's karen we'll see who turns on their video, who still has their pajamas on um karen, seems fully dressed.

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uh So uh as we go through and later in the week. If you've got questions, please feel free to corner any of the education folks and we'll try to get your questions answered.

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So, let's see, if I can make this thing, work hey there, we go so we're going to go through an introduction and an overview for the newcomers activities.

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We're going to talk about the structure of the ietf, we're going to talk about how the meeting week is going to go supposedly and we'll talk a little bit about resources and people and tools and information that you can get at.

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We're going to try and limit this to stuff. That's immediately useful to you as a an attendee who hasn't been here for too long uh and strategies to make the most of the meeting.

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But we used to do a lot more about the history of the ietf and how to write a standard, we'll leave that for other presentations and discussions and try and keep this a little shorter if you're just coming into the room.

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If you would please go ahead and either log in on the qr code, that's on the screen or if you have access to the agenda log into the meet echo room, because that will put you on the attendees list and if you log into the full version on your laptop you'll, be able to see the chat and things going on in there.

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So this slide and the following one, you will get to see it every session at the ietf. It's basically we call it the notewell because, of course, on the login screen, it says note. Well all of these things. This is a reminder of iatf policies that are in effect and things that you should read up on.

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There's a lot of focus on our patent policies, because people who have corporate interests that have patents care about those very much. But this also applies to um policies that have to do with your behavior with how to interact and uh whether photographs will be taken which they will um and as a participant. You agree to all of these things, there's a set of different policies that you can take a look at.

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They include the standards process, working group processes, the anti-harassment procedures, codes of conduct, copyright, patents, etc. Please do take a look at these if you have any questions, feel free to ask either any of the session chairs or folks in the leadership and we'll talk about who those are. But you are by sitting here and participating agreeing to abide by these policies.

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So there's a bunch of activities that are going to happen this week and we hope that you participate in them we'll go through some more the specifics later in the presentation, but we've got a newcomers overview, which is this will have q a sessions.

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uh The ietf guides program you may be already signed up for to get a mentor to help you out through the week. We'll have some quick connection sessions later we'll talk about those there's newcomers, coffee breaks. There is a newcomers dinner, I believe tomorrow and newcomers feedback sessions. So please do participate in these check. The newcomers webpage and I'll point that out as we go, there are urls throughout this presentation.

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They will be available on the agenda page if you go and click and download the presentation in the meeting materials and we'll point you to all of those.

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So first thing I want to talk about is the structure of the ietf.

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Let's first go to our lovely mission statement, so the mission of the ietf is to make the internet work better by producing high quality, relevant technical documents that influence the way people, design, use and manage the internet. That's from one of our rfcs, so we're trying to produce protocols that make the internet work.

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The ietf is at core a standards, development organization, but it's a little different than most sdos that you may have been involved in in the past. First of all, this is self-selected individual participants. There is no formal membership. You show up here. You show up online.

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If you just go ahead and join one of the mailing lists and start participating by email, you have become a participant in the ietf. The magic has happened, there's no formal signups, so that's a little different than the way most sdos function.

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We are driven mostly by market-based adoption, that is to say, a real standard is one that gets used and our procedures talk in terms of deployment of protocols.

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We're focused on internet technologies, as opposed to others and I'll show you the where we sort of fall in place. um But what's sort of unique about the ietf is how bottom-up we are.

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There's no formal voting in the ietf people don't get votes simply because our membership is individual and not formal. Therefore, how would you know who the constituency is? Who is voting?

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We do hum I'll talk about that a little later, but that's a different sort of weird thing that we do there's no formal government role in the ietf at all and you'll also notice. There are no booth sales presentations sales related activities.

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That sort of thing doesn't go on here, we're here to talk about the technical standards and work on them.

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I see well we'll uh the there are certain slides in here that I had marked as skip on by and uh meat. Echo doesn't recognize that just yet so we'll skip on by it anyway.

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So big picture, these are the different groups that you will be seeing at the ietf. The iesg, the internet engineering steering group is our basic leadership for standardization activity.

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Those are the folks who actually read over and approve the standards and make sure that there is ietf wide consensus on the standards that we produce and under each of them under the iasg. The iesg is made up of area directors, and so there are usually two sometimes one. Sometimes three area directors for each area of the ietf and working groups underneath them separate from the ietf is the irtf. Our research wing, the internet research task force, and there is a steering group of the irtf called the irsg.

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The irsg is made up of the chairs of the different research groups. There will be irsg meetings this week or I I rtf meetings this week that you're welcome to go and participate in uh just like the ietf. They are open participation.

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Irtf work is a little different, structured, a little different and the different kinds of work that they do, but also very interesting, and you might want to dive in there much more academic than the ietf.

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The internet architecture board you'll see is its own little box. The internet architecture board provides architectural oversight to the ietf, but doesn't have a formal role in approving standards, so they're a separate body, and they do some of the uh approving appointments, duties and and liaisons with external organizations, but they are sort of off on their own. They have oversight functions, but not a formal standardization function.

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The other group that you will be interested to know about is the llc the, which is a limited liability corporation for those who are not us based legal people, um the ietf llc is more or less the corporate home. They are the real corporate entity for the ietf, the iab, the irtf, but they simply provide our fiscal and administrative support.

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They also have no role in standardization, but the folks, you see at the secretariat's desk work under the auspices of the llc and I'll point out some of the people that make that up, and then there are the rfc editor in iana, which are separate entities, and we can talk about those in a bit uh let's skip on through here. So we have different areas in the ietf.

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Each of the areas is run by the area. Directors, we've got applications in real time, transport, routing the internet area, operations and management security, and then the general area which focuses on policies and procedures.

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um The area director for the general area is our ietf chair, so he is um the area director who oversees the general area, in addition to his chair duties and the rest of these, each have two or three area directors.

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Let's talk a little bit about consensus so, as I said, there's no voting david clarke, who is one of the researchers who was with the ietf from the beginning. Had this little quote when he gave a presentation, he said we reject kings and presidents and voting. We believe in rough consensus and running code.

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So in the ietf, since we don't vote the chairs or the area, directors will judge rough consensus, which is achieved when all of the issues that are outstanding, that people have brought up have been addressed, not necessarily accommodated, but were convinced that, yes, the issues have been noticed, we understand the answer and we have dealt with it in some way, even if it's to say we're not going to deal with that in the protocol.

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Dissenting opinions always must be heard. Sometimes they're not controlling. Sometimes they are sometimes the chair will say that issue is outstanding, even though a few people disagree, it's important enough that that breaks the rough consensus.

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uh So I mentioned humming earlier. This is an old tradition when chairs wanted to get a sense of the room, but we don't vote. How would you do a straw poll without people raising their hands and counting and people didn't want to get into that? So the tradition was that the chair would say: okay, people in favor of choice hum and the room.

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Some people in the room would and people in favor of choice b hum and you would see which one was louder and that would give you a hint of which direction the conversation was going. um You'll see chairs do that, but of course this isn't a vote. This is just to get a sense of the room so that the discussion can continue. Oh well, more people are humming in favor of choice. A let's discuss that for a while. That seems like there's a you know, a leaning in that direction.

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The session chair in for a working group or the area director when it comes to broader questions or the isg as a whole is responsible for building consensus, and judging that consensus on the working group, mailing list discussion continues. So, decisions that happen in the room are not controlling. The chair must take it back to the working group mailing list for those people who aren't in attendance and make sure that there's true consensus across everybody who's participated, whether in person or online.

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um I wrote rfc 7282 a while back. It's a broad discussion of consensus, a lot of people in the ietf think it's a pretty interesting document. It's well worth the read. It brings up all sorts of weird corner cases about consensus and what we mean in this organization.

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It's just an informational document. It is not one of our procedures, but it'll give you some hint about how some people think about consensus.

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So uh well, we've discussed that already, as I said, there's uh some duplicate slides in here.

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So let's talk about the meeting week and give you an idea of how the week should hopefully go, there's a bunch of different events that will occur in person here. First of all, there are working group sessions, there's about 130 active working groups. Last week counted some of them will be meeting this week, not all of them. We don't have room for that for all of us meeting.

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um There are also birds of a feather sessions. We refer to them as buffs, and these are startup groups. We'll talk about those in a bit. The irtf, as I mentioned, we'll, be meeting there's about 15 research groups total and some of those will be meeting this week.

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There are area-wide sessions where area, directors or chairs that they designate will discuss area-wide issues and the plenaries and some invited talks I'll talk about in a bit the hackathon and the code- sprint um social events. I don't believe we've got any scheduled this week, except for the newcomers and we'll point you to the newcomers page for those there'll be some tutorials. Maybe some I don't think we're doing a deep dive this week with the iab um lunch sessions. I believe the working chairs are meeting, but not much beyond that.

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The lightning talks- the hot rfcs will be meeting this week and there will be some side meetings and I'll point you to where all these things are yeah for the online folks again, this is our first hybrid meeting. Last week there were some newcomers, q and a's for participating online.

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This week during the coffee breaks, the folks who are online can use the gather tool I'll give you a pointer to that in a moment to discuss among themselves the gather tool by the way, if you're in your hotel room or wherever you may be, and you just want to join in and see who's roaming around the halls online.

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uh I actually find it quite fun. It's a good good tool. um The meetings run not 0900 100 until 1600. I believe this week and friday we end around 1400..

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All of the session is linked on the data tracker on the agenda page and the url is up here and there's additional information in the meet echo guide, which is the online participation guide and, of course, the newcomers page which you should become familiar with.

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And again, extra slides, so the biggest part of the meeting week is the working group sessions. uh Most of the work in between meetings is done on mailing lists. There are interims that some working groups have, but the official record of what's going on in the ietf is the mailing list.

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um The face-to-face meetings tend to be focused on solving issues that have not been dealt with or can't be dealt with on the mailing list, contentious issues or whatever.

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That means that for the most part, when you come into a face-to-face meeting, if you haven't read up on or are following what's going on in the mailing list, it's going to be a very confusing encounter because they're going to jump right into open issues, sometimes they'll have presentations on new materials. Sometimes document editors will present about open issues on the document, but they tend to jump right in the sessions are streamed and recorded. So you can go back and take a look at them. If you need to and they'll all be online and.

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Each working group has a charter that they have to live up to. These are negotiated with the area director and the iasg, and so, if there's going to be new work items, they must fit into the charter of the working group. If you have a topic that doesn't fit into the charter, the charter would have to be rewritten, which is a a process, so keep in mind that you may have a great idea for a working group, but it may not fit in the charter of what the working group is currently doing.

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Birds of a feather sessions or buffs usually precede uh the formation of a working group, so these are get togethers to figure out how to form a working group. Quite often, sometimes we have buffs that are for just one shot topics to sort of get an idea of where the topic is going without being working group forming if they're working group forming much of the discussion is how the charter will look and what the working group will be doing.

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People who have an interest in a particular topic area bring a buff proposal to one of the area directors or to the iasg as a whole, and an area director will choose to sponsor a buff.

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These generally meet only once. uh Sometimes, you can have two buff meetings, two meetings in a row, but they are short-lived, very short-lived uh groups.

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The irtf sessions which go on this week are officially under the iab, so the iab um is the oversight board for the irtf. These are research issues as opposed to engineering issues. So quite often these will be things that will not produce standards. Well, they can't produce standards by definition, but they'll look at interesting topics of research.

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We often leave space for the research groups to meet during ietf week. That's uh that allows folks who participate in both to see what's going on and allows engineers to sit in on the research group sessions and see what potential outputs might come for engineering topics.

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These are open meetings when they meet here at the ietf, and if you want to take a look at the rfc that defines how the irtf runs. That's rfc, 7418,.

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We'll also have some area-wide sessions. As I said, these are when the area directors designate that they want to hear general topics, so not specific um working groups on particular engineering topics, but overall what the area is working on where there might be new work where there might be cross-area work, you'll hear about it in some of these area-wide sessions, we'll also have the plenary session.

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uh The plenary session is always amusing to go to that in that one you'll get to meet the iab and iesg up at the front of the room, and they can answer your questions and they'll. Let you know what's going on as well as the llc will have representation.

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If you find that the snacks are not to your liking, you can get up at the microphone and complain to the llc and they will or will not take that into account um and we'll have an invited lunch talk this week. uh It is on the agenda and you can go take a look at that.

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The hackathon and code sprint is actually going on right now, um the code. Well, the code, sprint is the code sprint yesterday or today.

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It's today code yesterday, the code sprint is where volunteers from the ietf help work on the tools that the ietf uses. um So the data tracker and other parts of the website that you see uh the hackathon is little experimental protocols and people trying out implementations and things. That's always lots of fun if you want to get involved in the hackathon or the code sprint.

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uh The uh information on each of those will appear on the meeting page and obviously you're not going to be able to participate right now, but for the next meeting you may want to get involved.

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So, with regard to hackathon, it is free to participate open to everyone. It's collaborative and you're trying to build some tools. Some interesting pieces that go with ietf protocols, um you're going to come up with ideas that might feed back into the working group. So you can say: hey we tried to build this during the hackathon and we should probably update our draft to say that it should go this way. Instead of that we get people from outside the traditional ietf who go to the hackathon folks from uh more developer-centric uh areas.

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University. Folks, we see a lot of teaming up of newcomers with the veterans and uh we generally do these just the weekend before the ietf so right about now. I think I hear noises in the background. I think uh we also get to um uh a hackathon sort of uh presentation ceremony. I don't know, is that this afternoon I love how everybody's seen the agenda excellent and there's the url to take a look at information about the hackathon, like I said, networking and social events not so much this week.

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um One other thing you want to keep an eye out for is this url on public side meetings? There's a wiki page for people who want to talk about topics that aren't on the agenda and we've set aside some space at the ietf, and it will tell you the time and place and the topic that's being discussed, and if you want to set up a side meeting, you can sign up on that wiki page and reserve some space to chat with folks.

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Usually this is a group of people who have said we want to talk about this new issue and you can come and show up for that. The newcomers quick connections which you have to register for will happen at 1600 this afternoon, and I definitely recommend that way. You can talk to some of the folks who've been around a while.

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We've got the hot rfc lightning talks which are going on tonight in grand park hall 2 at 1900, and these are just quick short presentations of topics of interest and there is a newcomers dinner tomorrow at 1900. You do have to register. It is a 25 fee to go to the dinner, to pay for your food, but should be lots of fun. So if you have the chance, please do.

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With regard to working groups and any of the meetings that you're going to be attending, there's some general meeting etiquette. All of this should be relatively obvious, but uh just to remind you, please do read documents that are on the agenda before you go to the working group session. As I said, working groups tend to jump right into it.

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The ietf is, is a notoriously bad place to figure out what's going on by going to a session, there's not a whole lot of tutorial material, so you want to catch up on the reading before you go because chances are, there's not going to be a presentation to catch you up in the session itself. So please do find the meeting materials and read up.

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Obviously we want everybody to behave respectfully and tolerantly toward each other. um Do talk to folks, especially as newcomers walk up to people and engage and listen to folks and be uh uh respectful of opinions and what you're hearing and importantly enjoy yourself.

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Don't try to uh don't don't get too caught up in uh the the serious part. There's a lot of fun that goes on here, too.

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With regard to specific session etiquette, if you are here in person, please make sure to talk into the microphone very clearly and slowly so that people can understand. There are lots of folks who are not native speakers of english and so slowing down and speaking clearly will help them hear you.

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Please do mention your name when you get to the microphone. The minutes takers do like to write down. Who said what so that, if there's a question later, we can come back and say: hey joe, you mentioned this thing at the mic. Could you elaborate so please do say your name. We don't find saying your company or university is terribly important. uh People do, but you don't need to.

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um We normally would pass around these blue papers with the tendon sheets, but since we're hybrid this week, you sign in by logging into the qr code on meat echo that signs a virtual blue sheet, they've always been blue. Don't ask me why I don't know why? Yes,.

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No or if you go onto the mobile device too, yes do one or the other to make sure that you are registered for being here and same thing in each of the rooms. So if you go to the qr code, that brings you to the little finn, meet echo client and that will log you in either. One will get you on the list.

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um Technical comments and questions during working group sessions are welcome and please do bring them up when you have them, and please do also uh try logging in even if you're, in person to the meat echo site so that you can get on the chat and watch the chat go by uh I've been trying to keep an eye on the corner.

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You know in the corner of my screen here, uh karen's doing well to answer questions online for folks who are who are remote, please by way of etiquette, try and practice using the tool ahead of time test. The configuration keep yourself muted, with your video off if you're, not speaking, use a headset, because sometimes echo can be a problem and speak slowly and clearly again.

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So people are able to understand you, um one of the new features of meat echo. If you get on to the full version, is down in the lower right corner. There's a local mute button. It used to be that you would turn on and off your audio and there would be a delay now. You can just locally mute, your mic, which is handy.

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It is much quicker to turn on and off and again. Technical comments always welcome. Even if you're participating remotely and use the jabber meat, echo chat to discuss topics.

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So one of the things that comes up relatively frequently is: how do I bring new work to the ietf?

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um A fair bit of warning about this? uh Bringing new work to the ietf generally requires that you collaborate with other folks. So writing up a document. Even with a friend of yours and saying here it is ietf. Please work on this generally doesn't uh come out very effective. You want to find other people in the ietf from different groups and say: hey. Are you interested in working on this?

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That means, to a certain extent, getting to know people in the ietf before you bring new work so discussing topics with people after sessions and getting to know them. If you have new work to bring that's a good way to get started, uh you can always write an internet draft, even if you haven't gotten too many collaborators yet at least you have a document out there that you can point people to and say hey. This is my idea: have a look internet drafts, anybody can post them.

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They carry no particular weight other than it's just an easy way to publish a document you might want to have what we call euphemistically a bar buff, so you can go to the bar with a few other people and chat about the topic and get out some cocktail, napkins and scribble down different ideas about how you want things to go.

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um We sort of distinguish between real barb offs, where it involves going to the bar and writing things down on cocktail napkins from these side meetings, which are a little more formal when people do presentations, do feel free to talk to the area directors in a particular area. Many of the areas have what they call.

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A dispatch working group which is used to meet up together, bring a new topic and see if the area is interested in forming a working group around the topic or having one of the area, directors sponsor work or having one of the working group sponsor work.

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So the dispatch working groups are very useful for bringing on new work. You can always do a buff proposal, that's a little more complicated, but you can prepare some drafts. Prepare a charter come up with an agenda and then discuss with an area director getting that on the agenda for the next meeting.

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And there's a lovely tutorial which we've got the url at the bottom, including a video of bringing new work to the ietf. Please do have a look at those.

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So let's talk about some resources that you're going to be able to use here in the ietf. First of all, all of the rest of the participants.

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The ietf tends to be a group of engineers who are rather passionate and smart and vocal about the things that they're working on this can be a little intimidating at first people get up to the mic and say no, when you know we've been talking about this forever and we should go this way or that way people get very excited about work.

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Don't worry too much about getting a conversation going with such folks. They'll be glad to talk to you about the topic.

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Don't be shy. It's a hard group to be shy with they're. Very engaging technical excellence is sort of the key point as far as ietf goes we're looking to build the best protocols, and so we tend to frown on wheeling and dealing and I'll give you my protocol. If you, you know, give me yours, etc and so forth um again, please do your homework, bringing up ideas that have been discussed ad nauseum.

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Sometimes people uh aren't very impressed with that. So do read up on the documents, but once you've read up on the documents bring up questions, people want to hear them.

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You'll also notice that a lot of folks have been around here for a very long time, and so there are some close relationships: lots of people hugging in the hall this week. Well those of us with our little green markers on, um but everybody is willing to chat, but sometimes it feels a little hard to break into a conversation after a session meet up with some people in the hallway and chat with them.

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That's a good way to get to know people.

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Don't be shy about walking up to chairs and area directors, everybody should be happy to talk to you about any of the topics in their particular area. There's a list of working group chairs on the website on the data tracker website. By the way the data tracker is sort of our home base.

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That's where all of the documents go. That's where all of the working group charters go a very good resource. You should go hunting around on there and see what's there, so the chairs go to working group chairs. Ask questions about how to get involved in things.

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The area directors are also listed up on the ietf website for both the chairs and the area. Directors. There are photos, you can spot people in the hall, although it's harder with the masks.

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um I one of the folks that I've known for years was almost unrecognizable because they couldn't wear their glasses because they were fogging up and they had the mask on. I was shocked to find out who it was um and lars our ietf chair is always happy to chat. He does tend to run about and have this meeting or that meeting so sometimes he's hard to pin down for too long, but he's rather friendly and perfectly uh happy to chat when he has time.

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You know we'll get back to that point at the bottom, but yeah. If you have concerns about something going on in a working group that doesn't seem right, people misbehaving do bring it up with the chairs or the area directors. We do want to hear about those things and get them solved.

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So the um head of the llc is our executive director, that's jay, it's a good picture. Jay um is jay on site this week. He is so jay takes care of the contracts with the secretariat. He takes care of the contracts with all of our external contractors.

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um Jay is our admin person. You got questions about the administration. Jay is happy to talk about it.

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The secretariat takes care of all of the nuts and bolts of getting the meetings together and the mailing lists and the website uh the registration. You will see those folks floating around all week, go up to the desk, say hi. They are a perfectly friendly bunch and happy to help you with anything that you've got um rfc editor in ayanna.

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Although you'd think that our publication house and the registries would be part of ietf, but they are actually separate bodies contracted out and if you've got questions about publishing rfcs.

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The rfc editor folks are here and registering uh code points and such the iana staff should be around, uh if not in person, at least on the gather space.

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um Oh there's my smiling face so and that's what I look like without a mask on um the ombuds team is here to deal with cases of harassment and other problematic behaviors, um if someone's being rude in a working group session in front of everybody else, and just being you know, disruptive working group chairs take care of that and you can talk to a working group chair if there's a problem, if there's something more serious by way of harassment, that's where the ombuds team comes in, feel free to approach either with a question and we'll refer to the other one, if that's useful, but um if there are any problems with harassment at all, don't worry about bringing it to the uh ombuds team.

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You run out of air with the mask on at some point. um The ombuds team process is completely confidential, so if you've got any concerns, oh I don't really want to bring this up in public. The ombuds team will not bring anything up in public I'm here on site. I believe allison and melinda are both not here this week, um but they will be available by email and online uh feel free.

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Let me know if you've got any concerns and we'll deal with them, uh you will notice on people's badges, all sorts of dots and ribbons and things um they are only somewhat useful, particularly the blue dot for the chairs, because there's a lot of chairs running around and you don't know for which group they may be the chair. So I've got my blue dot for chairing the gen dispatch working group, but uh the nominations committee.

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If you have comments on people who are coming up for nomination, although that's not as relevant this meeting, the steering group, which is the area directors, have yellow dots. Iab has red dots, irsg, uh the pink dots rfc editor people have that teal dot llc people have the black dot and you'll also see these little ribbons. You all probably have a new attendees uh ribbon on your badge.

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I've got my little ombuds team, one they're also fun silly ones, so you know don't think that uh everybody who's got a ribbon is some sort of official designation.

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Some of them just say funny sayings so, um but in any event, oh and the host badge for folks who are sponsoring the meeting, always nice to say thanks to them.

C

um This is probably the one that you will want to save and will be available. As I said out on the website, we've got the newcomers page that has pointers to all of the newcomer sessions and important information you might need. The tao of the ietf is a great guide to not just participation but sort of the history and some of the more interesting bits of ietf lore.

C

The ietf sisters list is for women participants who want to uh talk, there's a mailing list and a blog page and our sisters meeting this week.

C

They are somewhere on the agenda. um The mailing lists for the meeting.

C

Tuesday, 9 a.m for the sisters list. Thank you um and, as far as the meeting mailing lists, those are all out on the meetings website.

C

um Any issues you might have with technical issues can't log in can't get to a particular session, don't know how to get on uh the hotel uh wi-fi.

C

You can ask the issues page and, of course, there's a links page, which has all of these things on it, like, I said, no need to write these down. These will be available with the meeting materials.

C

As I said, the data tracker is sort of your home base. Data tracker has all of the information you need to read documents to see the agenda for the meeting, uh all of the mailing list, information different groups at the ietf, the tools page. Well, you know old pages here. The tools page is slowly being migrated over to data tracker. So there's not too much out there anymore.

C

Data tracker is the place to be meet. Echo is our online meeting participation tool. The meat echo folks are around this week. If you have any trouble with meat echo, you can feel free to corner them and uh you will find in the data tracker information on meat echo and on where the recordings are archived of each of the sessions.

C

There's also some places to try out to test the tool if you're wanting to play with it ahead of time.

C

Gather is great. If you are online, um I I don't know why more people don't use it, but it actually is you get a little icon to run around the rooms with which is, I guess, fun for some people? I don't even care to have my little icon and I don't need that sort of thing, but what happens is if your icon gets next to another person's icon? Your video comes on. You can chat with them and especially when I was online. This was a great tool to go running around the hall and go oh.

C

I need to meet up with my friend alexi he's over there and we would have a little video chat um and I knew he was available because he showed up in the gather. um Please do feel free to use it from here as well chat with some of the online people.

C

There are more of them than there are of us here in the room.

C

um We tend to run our own networks at these meetings. There are some great notorious karen did. You have something sorry.

D

uh Yes, actually I I just wanted to catch before you went through all of this uh there's a the link on that slide is wrong and I didn't send you the updated one. I put it in chat. Oh.

C

D

C

Oh, is it right that's from the uh 108.? Well, you know.

D

Yeah, so my apologies- that that's my fault but meeting.ietf.org has all of the network information of what's available and also tells you where to go to get help so.

C

D

Slide, look at that link.

C

Yes, I'll, try and update the the slides um in any event, uh yeah we tend to run our own networks at these meetings. uh Hotels have had loads of fun over the years where they used to say: oh, don't worry about it, we'll take care of it. We've got a great network here at the hotel and all the ietf's show up and the network collapses within minutes.

C

So there are many hotels around the world that have had probably millions of dollars in free, consulting as we reconfigured all their routers and wireless access points for them, and generally we bring in our own back hall and run the network. Ietf hotel network is usually the one where we hook up to their access points and just plug them into our back hall.

C

So yeah we have a very good network set up here. uh Key one is try to use the ietf uh secure networks, don't use the iatf legacy ones.

C

um Jabber the xmpp protocol, uh we still use to a great extent the meat echo chats are actually a jabber chat. So if you use jabber and you want to get to the ietf meeting rooms, there are pointers on each of the agenda items page to show you how to get in to the chat room or when you're logged in to meet fo. You can just see the chat.

C

Do note that in meet echo the chat window, you there's a little button to separate it out, so you can continue to watch the meeting and the participants and have the chat separate, which is kind of handy and there's a little how-to page on how to use it.

C

Please do participate and there's lots of background discussion during meetings where people don't want to get up to the mic, because it's either a small topic or just some side commentary.

C

It's very useful to read the jabra chat during the meeting and above all, enjoy yourself ietfs, especially once you get to know some of us around. The hallways are really fun times. You can have great technical chats over coffee between sessions, do go ahead and do that.

C

We are all here to help you out. If you have any questions, you'll see lots of us with little smiley faces on our badges. Oh, I don't have my smiley face uh to say that we're perfectly happy to have people just come up and chat. So please do so. um If you have feedback there is a feedback page for this. We do ask you to give us uh some feedback on the survey and we'll open up the mic for any questions uh both online or here in the room, so uh penguin young.

E

C

E

C

E

Honey young from china, mobile and uh nice to see you and uh I have a question to to ask it's about the patent, and when should I public the patent document, because sometimes the patenter is still in application in the process of of application? It's not been uh authorized, so we should publish the should. I inform the working group that there is a potential patent in the document.

C

So the the short answer to the question is as soon as possible and if you read over the patent policy, which is bcp 79 and the rfcs, are there, it describes when you're, when you have to do that, um but it goes through when you are individually aware that this is going to, uh you know, impose on the work and you're participating in a working group. You really have to make a disclosure as soon as you can. We understand that lots of us work for companies that have particular policies on how to do those disclosures.

C

Sometimes lawyers have to do the actual written disclosure, but even during a working group session, you're participating in saying hey just to let you know, I think we're going to be making a formal disclosure soon is useful, but do check out the rules in the bcp. That will give you more details, and you can show your if you have attorneys for your company. You can show them uh what the request is and they'll understand. All the details.

E

Okay. Thank you uh another question. So, what's the consequence of some uh company or some other people use rfc with with patent.

C

Say that again, I'm sorry.

E

So, what's the consequence of other people, what's the problem of other people that use uh rfc with with some patents.

C

I, and what is the problem with people using rfcs.

E

With the patents- yes, yes,.

C

I I'm not sure what you.

E

Mean could you explain, I mean yeah, I mean if rfc is is protected by and how about how other companies will use it.

C

Oh so um at the ietf there is no requirement for a patent holder to actually license the material.

C

That's in the rfc, so we've got um rfcs that have been published, that have patented material in them um and that's between the patent holder and the person who implements the rfc. So, unlike some standards organizations, we do not have a policy that you must give up. uh You know a release to your patents or anything like that. So for us, that's between the patent holder and um the person who's.

B

C

um So that's why we like the disclosures is so that the working group when they're producing their document can make a decision. Oh this has patented materials. Do we want to put this in the standard or not, um but because we participate as individuals?

C

uh You know, unless you personally have knowledge of the patent and want to discuss that in the ietf, which is good.

C

The decision on whether to use the rfc if it's got patent patented material is a discussion between the patent holder and the person doing the implementation again. Okay,.

D

C

Let me be clear just in case there is a question. I am not a lawyer, um and so you do want to consult with the documents in bcp 79 so that you understand what the implications are.

E

Okay, thank you.

C

Of course, um thank you uh hansjorg.

C

If you want to turn on your video, that's appreciated, but you don't have to oh he's you're in the room. Please come up to the microphone.

C

It's hard to tell on here, because you have the little I'm at home icon, because you're logged into the full thing. That's fine! Welcome! Please.

A

Thanks for the confusion, no.

C

A

um So my question is: what is the essential or recommended tooling uh for that week, especially for being on-site, so I saw there is the agenda app, which is now updated? I think it was yes, and um so should I install jabba on my mobile.

C

So um yeah for the chats. um It's probably you can install a jabra client, that's fine, but since most of the work that you're going to be doing is in working group sessions, uh meat echo does have the chat window in it and that's hooked into the jabber. So I would just simply use meat echo during the sessions.

C

You may eventually decide that you want to do a full, jabber client so that you can talk to people between meetings um and and such, but for this week using meat. Echo alone is probably sufficient. Okay, so there's no more stuff, you don't need to use a regular jabber client. um You will notice that the thin client, the one that runs on the mobiles, that just checks you in and allows you to raise your hand, doesn't have the jabber client in there.

C

So if you just want to use it on your phone, you may need to do that to get a jabra client, but if you're going to use the regular jabber on your laptop, uh the regular meet echo on your laptop, that is, uh that will have the jabra built in okay.

A

But also beyond yeah is there anything else? Oh.

C

Or for participation there are no other, uh the gather town, uh so you can talk to other people. Online is the only other tool that we use on a regular basis. I'm trying to think karen. Is there any others that come to mind.

D

uh No there's no others that come to mind, and one thing I did want to mention was there is an effort to migrate away from jabber to a new iatf chat client in the future. So I don't know how much energy I would invest in that separate jabber client.

C

And everything else is just logging into the webpage on the data tracker, looking through the agenda and all that stuff. That will point you in the right direction.

A

Thanks a lot sure.

C

Any other questions as time is winding down. Looking online, don't see anybody in the queue feel free to come up to any of us after the session um karen's online uh greg wood, who is part of the llc, is floating around you'll see. Is he still in the room he was hiding in the back before, um but yes feel free to corner any of us.

C

If you have questions and please do go to uh the q a sessions and well, I guess it's- the coffee breaks this week and and join us for more discussion, but I'm happy to stay after and chat at the back of the room or up here, and thank you for coming uh and and welcome to the iedf uh have fun this week.

D

Welcome have a great meeting.

F

C

Not turn offable.

C

C

Right, you can use either one.

C

Yeah, we're not doing paper blue sheets this time, because this way we'll get everybody from online and.

C

Yep well- and there was some question on whether that was going to work for this session, because it was on the agenda differently, but it does um their their room based on the little qr code. So if you're in the right room at the right time and click it, it will know. Yes.

C

Yeah yeah yeah so far so good, although I can't tell the difference between online and remote, so thankfully york is in the room. Oh okay,.

C

No, you weren't, you were the you know the guinea pig for the mixed queue. So, uh yes, they work. Well, although I have to actually look around the room and not just stare at the stream.

C

C

Nice to see you in person finally.

C

Jump into the sessions and see the mayhem, it's always always amusing. I.

F

Really enjoyed just watching people working.

A

C

Very nice to meet you as well.

C

Did you have a question.

C

ah um Let me pack up my stuff and uh we'll step away from the microphone. I think I know who you are hold on just one. Second, no, no! No.

C