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From YouTube: IETF95-TUTORIAL-UnwrittenRulesOfTheIETF-20160403-1100
Description
TUTORIAL meeting session at IETF95
Unwr/it/te 2016
A
B
B
A
C
A
B
There's
a
drinking
party
that
happens
on
one
of
the
nights
of
the
idea.
It's
kind
of
it,
a
tradition,
as
you
might
expect
in
a
group
like
this,
and
he
thought
well.
I
never
got
an
invitation
to
that
party,
and
so
maybe
I'm
not
in
the
inner
circle,
and
that's
why
my
draft
doesn't
proceed
well,
you
know,
I
actually
fell
asleep
and
forgot
to
go
to
the
drinking
party
and
so
I.
B
Don't
think
that
has
anything
to
do
with
why
your
draft
procedure
or
not
so
the
reason,
that's
the
reason
that
I
started
doing
this
presentation
is
really
start
conversation
with
some
of
the
old-timers
and
also
to
to
talk
to
the
new
about
really.
What
are
we
doing
here
anyway,
and
now
some
of
it
is.
B
Thanks
and
some
of
it
is
what
you
might
call
aspirational,
what
aspirational
means
is
that
we
want
things
to
be
fair
in
the
world
and
we
want
to
all
speak
the
truth
at
all
times.
Those
are
our
values,
and
sometimes
we
fall
short.
So
what
I'm
going
to
talk
about
is
how
I
feel
number
of
other
people
think
we
should
be
at
the
IDF
and
what
I
ETF
is
for,
and
how
can
you,
especially
as
new
people,
become
a
to
learn
to
understand
this
very
unique
environment?
B
B
If
you
want
to
so,
let's
first
talk
about
what
the
heck
we're
doing
here
anyway
and
I'm
going
to
take
something
from
fred
baker,
who's,
one
of
the
former
chairs
of
the
IETF.
What
he
said
is
we
are
here
to
solve
problems
in
the
internet.
What
a
lot
of
people
might
think
is
well
what
the
IETF
does
is
produce
RFC's
and
so
we're
here
to
produce
rfcs.
B
Well,
yes,
yes,
in
the
end
at
some
point,
one
would
like
to
have
standards,
but
it's
all
much
more
complicated
than
that.
What
can
happen
is
that
somebody
sees
a
pro
and
they
even
maybe
start
hallway
conversations
about
a
problem.
Maybe
then
it
goes
to
a
barb
off
and
then
a
working
group
has
started
and
in
the
end
things
come
out
it's
much
more
nuanced
than
we
produce
RFC's.
B
In
fact,
I've
had
some
people
gauge
the
set
I'm
going
to
gauge
the
value
of
my
efforts
by
how
many
rfcs
my
company
or
my
country
can
create
and
and
to
me,
I
think
that
that's
quite
misguided,
because
it
may
be
much
better
to
have
more
line
in
one
RFC,
which
is
a
seminal
idea.
Then
ten
rfcs,
which
are
never
adopted
by
anyone
and
which
are
not
well
well,
particularly
well
thought
out.
B
The
shared
vision
is
to
make
the
internet
the
best
that
it
can
be
going
forth.
Oh
okay,
when
you
talk
about
evolution
I
when
you
have
in
nature,
nature
and
evolution
creates
new
functions,
and
so
you
adapt
to
the
environment
and
slowly
you
become
a
better
organism.
How
can
anybody
do
that
for
the
Internet?
Well,
we
have
to
do
that.
We
have
to
help
the
internet
adapt
to
its
environment.
How
do
you
do
that?
You
do
that
with
constant
innovation.
B
That's
why
the
whole
idea
of
innovation
and
collaboration
is
such
a
very
important
part
of
being
at
the
IETF
and,
of
course,
I
personally
think
that
the
Internet
has
provided
a
forum
for
much
of
the
world
to
come
together
and
be
a
participant.
It's
a
disruptive
idea
in
the
world
and
I
think
probably
all
agree
on
the
value
of
free
and
open
communication,
and
if
that's,
what
we're
supporting
that's
a
very,
very
important
thing
to
do,
and
you
can
see
why
we
all
have
to
collaborate.
B
If
you
just
look
at
things
like
electrical
systems,
every
time
you
go
to
some
different
country,
there's
a
different
electrical
system
that
has
to
be
plugged
into
you
have
to
think
about
what
adapter
with
someone.
If
the
internet
worked
like
that,
was
it
good.
It
couldn't
work
like
that,
and
so
we
have
to
work
together.
And
so
that's
why
I
say
it's
a
very,
very
important
thing.
B
Do
this
don't
do
as
I
said,
I
want
to
give
you
the
the
overall
picture.
Okay,
on
the
other
hand,
if
you're
doing
something
that
supports
the
core
vision
of
the
IETF,
which
is
again
collaboration
and
innovation
in
support
of
the
internet,
then
even
if
what
you're
doing
is
quite
radical
within
the
sense
that
it's
never
been
done
before.
You'll
get
a
lot
of
support
and
I
can
speak
to
that.
B
Ok,
so
the
IETF
is
not
just
an
RFC
male,
of
course.
In
the
end,
you
want
to
have
something
that
is
written,
and
that
is
a
standard
in
the
end,
whether
that
happens
in
two
months
three
months,
five
years,
that's
a
different
story.
You
may
also
be
involved
in
commenting
on
somebody
else's
work
to
make
that
better.
That
is
wonderful.
That's
what
we
need.
B
It
may
be
somebody
else's
idea
that
you're
helping
to
improve
that's
called
teamwork
and
collaboration,
it's
very,
very
valuable,
so
what
people
feel
is
that
I'm
going
to
write
an
RFC,
and
that
gives
me
prestige
and
importance.
I
want
that.
You
know
all
these
new
things
after
my
name.
Well,
the
real
prestige
is
actually
solving
the
problem.
You
know
to
solve
the
problem
of
security
on
the
internet,
the
transport
layers,
that's
the
actual
problem,
that's
the
prestige
and,
as
I
say,
that's
the
shared
vision.
B
Okay,
so
you
may
say
that
the
IETF
has
faults
and
I
can
point
out
to
you
if
500
false,
that
the
IETF
has,
but
one
of
the
things
that
it
also
has
it
tries
to
fix
them.
You
can
it.
You
have
open
communication
where
people
try
to
fix
the
fault
and
if
you
think,
there's
something
wrong
speak
up.
Let's
see
if
we
can
fix
it.
I
think
that's
very,
very
important,
but
do
not
forget
that
a
very
small
number
of
people
have
created
and
continue
to
create
the
innovation
that
supports
the
Internet.
B
I
was
joking
around
with
somebody
at
the
last
IETF
at
them
at
the
Welcome
Party
and-
and
you
know
he
said
you
know
what,
if
somebody
put
a
bomb
right
here
and
blew
up
the
the
welcome
party
for
the
IETF
in
six
months,
a
great
deal
if
the
innovation
on
the
internet
would
stop.
That's
true,
that's
true.
A
very
small
number
of
people
have
supported
what
we
know,
as
this
very
important
thing
called
the
internet
and
how
it's
because,
and
one
of
the
reasons
why
it
works.
B
That
way
is
because
of
unspoken
rules
of
the
IETF
one
of
the
very
first
things
somebody
told
me
when
I
came
to
the
IETF
and
I
wanted
to
see
how
to
make
my
way.
He
said
you
know
the
IETF
is
a
community
you
give
back
to
the
community
and
they
will
give
back
to
you.
Don't
just
think
about
what
you
want
and
and
I
took
that
very,
very
much
to
heart
and
I.
B
B
He
lived
in
a
time
when
people
did
not
talk
openly
in
Russia
about
what
was
going
on
in
the
political
system,
and
so
people
were
afraid
to
talk,
and
so
one
day
in
his
group
he
talked
openly
in
his
apartment
with
with
his
friends
about
exactly
what
he
felt
and
the
next
day
he
found
the
solution
to
a
physics
problem
that
he
had
been
working
about
on,
and
so
it
it
seems
very
odd
it.
What
does
trust
have
to
do
with
physics,
and
what
does
trust
and
safety
have
to
do
with
computer
systems?
B
Well,
it
does.
If
I,
don't
know
how
I
don't
think
any
of
us
know
how,
but
that
feeling
of
trust
and
community
makes
it
possible
to
do
innovation
in
a
way
that
I,
don't
think
any
of
us
knew
how
and
and
I
would
love
to
hear
some
of
the
old-timers
talk
to
this
too
I
know
in
my
own
startup.
We
have
a
lot
of
trust
with
each
other,
we're
very
vulnerable
about
what
we
know,
what
we
don't
know,
and
it
allows
us
to
do
a
lot
of
innovation.
B
So,
let's
talk
concretely
about
some
of
the
values
of
the
IETF.
Well,
what
are
these
values?
Do
your
own
work,
the
IETF
very
much.
How
do
I
say
believes
in
having
your
own
thoughts
it?
They
may
be
half-formed.
They
may
not
be
completely
the
the
final
thing,
but
do
your
own
work
and
I'm
in
a
show
I
talk
to
you
about
doing
your
own
work
and
and
even
if
it's
kooky
or
weird,
do
it.
Try
it
and
yeah
and
learn
from
others
take
feedback.
Then
the
next
thing
do
really
good
work.
B
That's
very
very
important!
It
sounds
like
what.
Why
would
somebody
even
have
to
say
that
to
me?
Well,
I'm
going
to
show
you
examples
of
where
people
did
not
do
their
own
work.
Nor
did
they
do
really
good
work.
If
people
are
not,
how
do
I
said
people
know
people
know
when
you
know
what
you're
talking
about
when
you
spent
a
bunch
of
time.
Thinking
about
the
packet
flow
in
a
particular
area,
where
you
know
exactly
what
these
dis
flow?
B
Yes
and
what
the
problem
is,
people
can
tell,
they
can
tell
do
really
good
work,
and
I
just
I'm
going
to
give
you
a
methodology
for
how
you
might
do
really
good
work
and-
and
you
will
get
a
lot
of
respect-
have
it
work
in
reality.
That
means
it
doesn't
it
shouldn't
just
be
a
theoretical
construct?
This
is
something
people
are
going
to
put
on
their
real
networks.
B
So
if
you
can
have
running
code,
that's
very,
very
good
and
important,
or
if
you
can
have
a
real
example,
even
prototype
code
to
start
with
very
very
important
haven't
worked
for
everybody.
That's
one
of
the
big
important
things
about
being
here
is
you'll
get
you'll,
get
feedback,
sorry
from
all
over
the
world
about
whether
this
particular
thing
works
for
them
or
not,
and
that's
very,
very
important
to
see,
because
you
may
have
your
own
viewpoint,
but
you
don't
think
how
is
it
going
to
work
in
Latin
air?
B
How
is
it
going
to
work
in
India,
and
so
when
others
tell
you,
that's
very
important
and
work
with
others
for
the
good
as
a
community?
It's
a
as
I
say
that
that's
a
we've
talked
about
that.
A
bunch
already
be
honest
again,
as
I
said
sometimes
I
feel
like
I
felt,
like
you
know
what
am
I
everybody's
mother
I
mean
this
seems
like
things
that
you
tell
your
your
children,
but.
B
It
but
so
much
of
the
time
is
now,
as
I
said,
I'm
going
to
give
you
example
after
example,
where
it's
so
not
true,
and
it's
like
I
kind
of
feel
like.
Why
do
I
even
have
to
say
this,
but
I,
but
but
because
of
my
experience
with
IETF
and
the
mentoring
program,
I'm
you're
saying
it
is,
don't
don't
lie
because
people
will
find
you
out
and
then
your
name
is
ruined.
You
know,
people
will
tell
you
be
transparent.
What
transparent
means
is
just
is
don't
try
to
hide
things.
B
Don't
if
you,
if
you
have
results
that
are
like
eighty
percent
just
say
it's.
Eighty
percent,
don't
think.
Oh,
it's
a
little
bit
less
than
a
hundred
percent.
Wait
I,
think
I
mean
just
sit
and
then
say
what
didn't
work.
What
did
work?
We're
equal
I'll
talk
about
that
some
more.
This
is
a
non
hierarchical
organization.
Having
said
that,
I
mean
there
are,
of
course
you
know
working
group,
chairs,
area
directors
and
so
on,
but
by
and
large
everybody's
opinion
should
be
equal
to
everybody
else's.
B
Of
course,
some
people
know
more,
and
so
their
opinion
is
to
be
more
highly
regarded,
but
just
because
you
think
somebody
is
older
than
you
or
for
women.
If
somebody
is
a
man
and
or
vice
versa,
if
their
opinion
is
not
better
necessarily,
but
for
those
things
you
know,
if
they
know
more,
oh,
yes,
then,
then
their
opinion
is
better
so
and
the
other
thing
is
care.
People
can
tell
when
you
don't
care
about
what
you
do
they
can
tell,
and
this
is
a
very,
very
hard
area.
B
It
takes
a
lot
of
effort
and
if
you
don't
actually
love
what
you're
doing,
it's
gonna
be
very,
very
hard
to
stay
in
it
for
the
long
term.
Okay,
this
is
exactly
what
I
tell
my
teenage
daughter.
You
shall
pick
something
Tilly
love,
because
it's
going
to
take
you
a
long
time
and
people
can
tell
because
most
a
lot
of
people
most
people
here
they
love
what
they
do
and
they
can
tell
when
you
don't
and
then
the
last
thing
I'm
going
to
talk
about
a
bench
don't
be
afraid
to
be
a
kook.
B
This
is
a
kook
is
for
the
non-english
speaker
as
a
weirdo,
don't
be
afraid
to
be
a
very
out
there.
You
know
somebody
that
people
go.
People
laugh
at
because
their
ideas
seem
so
silly,
don't
be
afraid
to
have
silly
ideas,
don't
be
afraid
to
have
bad
ideas,
because
you
know
what
it's
only
after
having
a
lot
of
bad
ideas
and
having
fixed
them
that
you
get
to
have
some
good
ideas.
I'm
a
product
developer.
I
cannot
tell
you
how
many
unsuccessful
products
I've.
Had
you
just
I'll?
Stop
there?
B
Ok,
ok!
This
isn't
an
interesting.
Do
not
do
this
kind
of
a
thing.
There
is
a
group
and
they
they
took
their
work
from
somebody
who
had
IPR
on
it.
It
was,
and
it's
okay
IPR
means
they
had
a
somebody
else,
had
a
patent
on
a
particular
idea.
It's
it's
okay
to
do
that,
but
you
have
to
give
credit.
You
say
this
person
has
a
patent
on
this,
and
ideally
you
ask
them
to
co-author,
and
so
then
it's
very
good
that
they
co-author
with
you.
They
did
this.
People
didn't
do
that.
B
B
You
won't
and
what
happens
then
is
when
these
people
present
nobody
says
anything
I,
don't
know
whether
they
get
agenda
time,
but
everybody
is
very
quiet,
and
this
is
very
not
quiet
group,
if
you're
meeting
and
you're
presenting
something
and
everybody
is
very
quiet-
either
either
you're
saying
something
everybody
really
gets
it
and
and
really
agrees
with
you,
which
you
hope
or
they're
like
I'm,
not
I'm,
not
wasting
my
time
doing
this.
It's
very
that's
a
very
it's
very
nice,
a
it.
B
You
don't
want
to
be
in
the
position
where
nobody's
commenting
on
your
work
and
a
lot
of
times
when
people
don't
comment
on
your
work
is
because
you've
broken
some
kind
of
rule
do
really
good
work
and
again,
as
I
say,
why
would
I
say
you
know
not
talking
two
teenagers?
There
is
a
group,
a
person
annum
I
in
three
four
or
five
different
meetings
of
the
same
working
group.
They
present
very
close
to
the
same
draft.
B
It
was
obvious
that
very
little
thought
and
work
had
been
put
into
that
draft
and-
and
they
keep
doing
it
over
and
over
again,
and
one
of
the
things
is
like
when
there
are
people
that
you
know
to
be
experts
and
some
people,
you
know
to
be
there
called
icons
of
the
IETF
you
people,
I
know
some
of
these
people.
They
have
sometimes
have
long
gray
beards
and
if
one
of
those
people
stands
up
and
says
to
you,
I
suggest
that
there's
a
fundamental
flaw
in
your
work.
B
If
somebody
says
that
to
me,
I
sink
into
the
ground
engine
in
horrified.
Shame
that
somebody
of
that
stature
would
say
something
like
that
to
me
in
a
working
group.
So
do
you
try
to
make
sure
that
that
does
not
happen?
And
if
they're
kind
enough
to
say
something
like
that
to
you
redo
every
single
bit
of
that
work
and
then
talk
to
them
afterwards
say
what
fundamental
flaw?
What
is
it
that
I'm
doing
so
wrong?
They
won't
if
these
people
are
often
extremely
kind,
they
will
lay
it
out.
B
B
Okay,
so
now,
how
do
you
do
really
good
work?
Well,
it
takes
a
lot
of
time.
You
have
to
put
the
work
into
it
and
it's
a
lot
of
different
things.
Its
work
and
commitment,
and
some
people
have
around
here,
have
what
30
40
years
of
work
on
real
networks.
I
mean
I've
been
I,
fell
in
love
with
networks
over
30
years
ago,
and
you
know
that
means
a
lot
of
people
have
a
real,
hands-on
experience
working
with
this
kind
of
stuff.
So
my
personal
opinion
is
to
get
very
much
hands-on
experience.
B
Look
at
packets,
studying,
look
at
the
protocols,
read
the
drafts
and
see
if
you
can
completely
understand,
what's
going
on
it,
try
to
get
in
group
whenever
we're
writing
a
new
draft.
We
have
a
group
and
we
meet
weekly
and
to
see
exactly
what's
going
on,
and
it
would
be
great
if
we
do
this
for
people
just
to
review
drafts
2,
I'm
considering
that
starting
part
of
that
as
a
part
of
the
mentoring
program.
You
know
some
groups
to
study
and
we
can
do
it
in
between
drafts.
B
You
know
for
different
working
groups
and,
let's
just
go
through
because
one
of
the
things
that
happens
is
that
often
times
people
think
I
am
very
smart,
I'm
smartest
person
in
my
company-
oh
maybe
I'm,
even
genius,
okay,
fine,
but
I-
can
tell
you
from
real
life
results
that
a
team,
a
collaboration
of
people
with
even
average
intelligence,
can
often
beat
a
solitary
genius
because
they
have
different
points
of
view.
They
can
correct
each
other.
They
can
support
each
other.
B
It's
a
very,
very
important
thing
to
have
collaboration
next,
get
feedback,
get
feedback
from
other
people
in
every
group.
You'll
find
two
three
four
five
inner
circle.
The
expert
people
go
to
them
and
say:
look
tell
me
honestly.
What
do
you
think
of
this
when,
when
we
were
first
starting
out
on
our
draft
I
would
make
an
appointment?
You
know
half
an
hour
with
each
person
at
the
IDF
and
just
say,
don't
be
afraid
of
hurting.
B
My
feelings
tell
me
exactly
what's
wrong
and
actually
the
people
you
really
want
to
talk
to
if
somebody
stands
up
and
starts
ripping
your
draft
up
in
the
meeting
great
great
take
them
aside.
So
you
know
what
let's
have
half
an
hour.
You
know
you
tell
me
exactly
what
it
is
you
think
is
wrong,
and
then
you
know
what
listen
go
back
and
fix
it
go
back
and
fix
it.
You
know
it
just
will
make
your
work
that
that
much
better
to
do
that
feedback
is
invaluable.
B
So
here
here's
a
possible
paths
and
you
know
what
there's
a
draft
too
there's
an
internet
draft
that
I
wrote
that
you
know
that
has
lots
of
these
things.
You
know
right
in
there.
Oh,
so
so
go
through
the
process.
See
about
so
does
your
idea
really
fit
into
the
working
group?
One
of
the
things
I've
seen
is
that
you
may
have
a
really
good
idea.
B
What
you're
in
the
wrong
working
group
or
the
working
group
is
going
down
a
particular
direction
and
their
focus
is
not
really
what
you
know
what
you
want
to
do
so
talk
it
over
with
them
and
they
people
can
be
swayed
to
you
know
I.
I
know
I've
certainly
met.
You
know
been
able
to
do.
That
is
to
sway
the
working
group
a
little
bit.
They
say:
okay,
okay,
yeah
yeah,
just
your
idea
does
fit
in
it
fits
in
this
way.
So
that's
very
good
again
get
a
team.
B
B
Who
will
be
happy
to
help
you
do
that
or
help
you
help
you
present
in
front
of
an
audience
the
bet,
the
more
people
really
understand
what
you're
doing
the
better
reaction.
Oh,
that
you'll,
have
do
it
more
than
once.
Maybe
do
it
first
in
your
local
language?
You
know
that
way.
It's
easy
to
understand
that.
Will
you
get
your
ideas
done
and
you
know
I
wish
the
world
was
different.
I
wish
we
didn't
present
in
English
out
of
the
time.
I,
don't
know
what
to
say.
You
know.
B
Yesterday
I
was
at
a
get
together
and
the
Spanish
people
were
presenting
some
of
the
things
in
spanish
and
I
caught.
Maybe
one
word
out
of
10,
so
you
know
I
don't
know
what
to
say.
I'm
sorry,
that's
that's,
but
that's
the
rules.
You
know
that's
how
we're
living
right
now
and
then
ask
ask
the
experienced
people
to
review.
This
is
what
I
mean
by
doing
your
homework.
B
You
know
go
in
there
and
if
people
know
this
person
has
done
their
homework
better
than
anybody
else,
then
then
you're
liable
to
get
a
real
good
hearing
again.
This
is
something
I
tell
my
daughter.
You
know,
I
may
not
be
the
smartest
person
in
the
room,
but
I
will
outwork
anybody.
You
know,
that's
the
you
know,
I
work
wit
nights
weekends.
If
I
have
to
I'm
going
to
outwork
people,
and
so
then
that's
so
then
you
know
you
manage
to
get
something
done.
B
Again,
honesty
and
trust
are
very
important.
Try
not
to
be
seen
as
having
a
private
agenda
and
now
ok,
this
is
quote
unquote.
It's
an
aspirational.
I
totally
know
that
there
are
people
who
are
coming
in
and
they
want
to
do
something
that
their
company
wants.
Yeah,
okay,
I
get
it
I,
know
that
I
know
that,
but
but
sometimes
what
the
company
wants
is
for
the
best
of
the
internet.
B
So
great,
wonderful,
sometimes
not
so
much,
though
not
so
much
and
but
I
will
say
that
if
you're
seen
as
the
kind
of
person
we
call
them
chills,
you
know
somebody
who
just
talks
about
what
the
company
want,
rather
than
your
own
personal
technical,
considered
opinion
people.
Will
people
who'll
know
that
people
will
know
that,
and
people
will
take
your
word
for
exactly
that,
especially
when
you
change
when
you
go
to
a
different
company
and
all
of
a
sudden
now
you're
saying
something
very
different
is
like
what
okay
anyway.
B
So
it's
very
in
this
group
and
it's
very
important
that
your
scene
is
what
you
see
is
what
you
get.
That
means
when
you
say
something
is
what
you
truly
believe.
They
may
not
agree
with
you,
it's
totally
fine,
not
to
agree,
but
it's
not
like
this
is
a
very
interesting
group
is
like
some
is
like.
If
you
were
in
a
group
where
you're
doing
a
lot
of
diplomacy,
you
can
count
on
that.
What
you're
saying
is
not
at
all
what
you
believe:
it's,
maybe
what
your
country
believes
or
what
you
have
to
say.
B
This
is
not
that
kind
of
group,
if
you
mean,
and
people
get
into
problems
that
way
and
life,
for
example,
this
this
whole
presentation,
it's
what
I
believe
people
may
agree.
People
may
disagree,
but
it's
what
I
believe
to
be
true
and
and
and
and
then
people
have
respect
for
that.
This
leads
into
something
else.
There's
a
lot
of
people
who
feel
that
I
etfs
are
very
rude.
B
Sometimes
that
can
be
true
and
I
certainly
been
on
the
on
the
receiving
side,
as
well
as,
unfortunately,
the
giving
side
of
being
extremely
blunt
about
what
I
thought
about
somebody's
idea
and
have
had
the
other
way
to
wear
and
sometimes
I
know
when
somebody
meals
it
when
you've
been
saying
something
and
immediately
they
see
the
exact
flaw
in
everything
that
you've
been
saying
and
you've
been
working
on
this,
for
you
know
six
months
and
they
they
nail
you
in
one
sentence:
you're
like
whoa,
and
sometimes
your
immediate
reaction
is
to
be.
Oh.
B
No,
that's
not
true,
but
you
have
to
be
yeah,
be
careful,
be
careful
and
it
listen,
listen
and
the
other
way
to
what
again,
if
you
think
about
why
we're
here,
we're
here
to
do
extremely
good
engineering
to
support
the
core
vision
which
is
innovation
on
the
internet.
So
it's
okay,
it's
okay!
If
somebody
nails
you
finds
the
flop,
will
then
fix
it
fix
it,
make
it
better
it
trying
to
get
that
person
to
work
with
you.
Maybe
and
saying:
will
you
be
co-author
it,
but
the
honesty
is
very
important.
B
Having
said
that,
as
in
this
session,
remember
you're
being
recorded
and
people
will
people
all
over
the
world
can
can
hear
what
you're
saying
so
that's
be.
It's
I
know
sometimes
in
a
heated
exchange
and
again,
I've
certainly
been
guilty
of
that.
You
say
things
that
may
be
a
little
more
harshly
than
than
you
might
want
to
do,
but
remember
it's
going
to
be
especially
things
like
email
exchanges,
it's
going
to
be
there
so
so
try
to
be
careful.
Try
to
be
polite.
B
B
I
think
we've
kind
of
chatted
about
this
off
ted,
some
people
about
people
who
had
the
three
value
binary
field
like
what
you
know:
oh
well,
the
two
bit
of
a
0
0,
1
and
hot,
but
but
the
kind
of
person
who
can
think
of
a
third
value
of
a
binary
field
they
may
go
on
in
the
future.
Just
do
something
very,
very
interesting
and
important.
Don't
just
laugh
at
people
and
don't
be
afraid,
don't
be
afraid
of
being
the
one
that
gets
laughed
at.
B
I
can't
tell
you
how
many
people
laugh
at
me,
I
mean
it's
just.
You
have
to
have
a
little
bit
of
a
thick
skin
if
you
truly
believe
in
it
work
on
the
idea
and
develop
it
in
in
India
we
had,
there
was
a
mathematician,
Srinivasa,
Ramanujan
and-
and
he
was
at
it
was
what's
called
an
autodidact.
He
taught
himself,
he
was
in
a
very
small
town
in
southern
India.
He
redeveloped
many
many
of
the
seminal
of
theorems
and
proofs
for
the
higher
mathematics
and
he
came
from
a
small
village.
Nobody
taught
him.
B
B
So
now,
one
of
the
other
things
that
I
hear
people
talking
about
is
called
the
old
boys
club.
This
is
again
like
with
the
young
man
who
said
well,
I
didn't
get
invited
to
this
drinking
party
and
I'm,
not
an
old
boy,
and
that's
why
my
draft
doesn't
go.
You
know
it's
all
these
people
who
know
each
other
and
they've
known
each
other
for
a
long
time.
B
Well,
you
know
what
I
mean
I'm
going
to
speak
as
somebody
who's,
not
a
boy
nor
that
old
and
and
I
managed
to
get
drafts
past
when
they're
when
they're
good.
It's
not
it's
about
again.
It's
it
really
is
about
the
kind
of
work
you
do
it's
not
about
whether
you
go
out
to
drinking
parties,
whether
you're,
a
man
or
whatever.
You
know
it's
not
about
that.
B
It
feels
like
an
old
boys
club,
but
you
know
what,
if,
if
you
do
a
lot
of
the
things
that
I've
said,
it
won't
take
long
before
you're
part
of
the
old
boys
club
too,
and
the
other
thing
ISM
is
about
respect
for
others
and
and
how
people
and
having
their
approval
to
one
of
the
things
that
I'm
going
to
say.
Is
you
know
it?
B
This
takes
a
lot
of
work
and
a
lot
of
times
when
you
do
really
good
work
and
one
of
the
icons
are
one
of
the
experts
or
people
that
you
respect.
They
tell
you
very
good
that
was
that
was
I
mean
things
like
people
saying
very
good
work
does
not
come,
get
that
often
at
the
IETF
they'll,
just
not
say
anything
and,
and
then
that's
good,
but
when
somebody
actually
says
very
good
job,
especially
if
it's
one
of
the
icons
you're
like
well.
Thank
you.
Thank
you
right.
B
C
C
B
B
So
it
talked
a
little
bit
about
this
integrity.
Flip-Flopping.
Your
opinion
should
be
your
opinion.
I
may
not
agree
with
you
and
it's
totally.
Okay,
but
I
should
know
that
that's
European
yeah.
This
is
something
again
is
like.
Can
you
disagree
with
people
of
course,
of
course,
but
I
know
some
people?
Some
companies
even
have
a
policy
that
you're.
B
You
should
not
disagree
with
the
senior
people
of
your
company
in
public
boy
to
me
is
like
what
kind
of
integrity
is
that
my
daughter
disagrees
with
me
loudly
and
all
the
time,
and
sometimes
she's
right.
You
know
it's
is
OK
is
OK
to
discipline
the
the
other
constant
one
type
out.
A
little
bit
is
called
anti
fragile.
You
guys
and
I
may
know.
If
you
have
a
garden
that
sometimes
there's
weeds,
you
try
and
cut
the
top
down
in
five
more
come
up.
That's
what
we
should
be.
B
We
calm,
dandelions,
you
know,
is
don't
be
cut
down
so
easily.
Don't
let
one
bad
word
from
somebody.
Take
you
down.
You
know
rise
up
again,
make
some
people
when
they
have
stress
they
actually
thrive
and
grow.
Be
that
kind
of
person
be
a
weed
because
we're
working
for
the
truth
we're
working
for
the
good
engineering-
it's
not
about
if
you
set
it
or
not,
leave
your
ego
at
the
door.
B
So
I'm
going
to
talk
about
some
we're
running
a
little
bit
out
of
times,
I'm
going
to
talk
about
some
cultural
issues
and
logical
fallacies,
sometimes
and
people
say
its
authority,
the
right
this
person
says
it,
so
it
has
to
be
right.
Well,
maybe
maybe
not
you
know
in
engineering,
you
can
actually
prove
that
that
it's
it's
good
or
not.
You
know
I
has
nothing
to
do
with
it.
Some
cultures
are
very
traditional
and
that's
fine
is
fine,
just
because
you've
always
done
it.
B
B
Of
course,
don't
just
come
for
ya
for
humming
sake,
yeah
of
course,
defend.
Yeah.
Now
we'll
talk
about
some
cultural
things.
I
come
from
an
Asian
culture
that
values
group
harmony,
nothing
wrong
with
that
group.
Harmony
is
very
good.
Group
effort
is
very
good.
Having
said
that,
it's
okay
not
to
be
part
of
a
group.
Sometimes
it's
okay
to
disagree
again.
You
have
some
have
a
reason.
Yeah
not
there
are
cultures
that
respect
their
elders.
B
B
Some
some
cultures
have
a
high
structure.
They
say
this
is
how
we
are.
We
have
a
system
and
it's
some
many
ways
to
look
at
it
cast
Confucian.
You
know
you
have
a
structure
and
there's
nothing
wrong
with
that.
Again,
it's
very
non-western,
but
there
is
a
huge
amount
of
safety
in
instructor.
It's
very
peaceful
as
I,
say,
I
come
from
an
Asian
culture.
High
structure
is,
can
be
very,
very
there's
a
grounding.
B
B
There
are
cultures
that
value
individual
achievement,
very
good,
very
fine
to
have
individual
achievement.
Having
said
that,
it
doesn't
mean
don't
collaborate,
some
people
who
value
that
you
have
to
get
the
opinion
of
the
group,
it's
very
hard
for
some
individualistic
cultures,
to
think
that
the
group
can
no
more
than
them
and
oftentimes.
The
group
will
know
more
than
you.
Oh.
B
The
other
thing
about
individualistic
cultures
is
sometimes
it's
okay
to
be
very
aggressive
in
the
point
of
in
proposing
your
ideas.
That
can
be
very
hard
that
can
feel
very
harsh
to
people
who
come
from
more
group
oriented
cultures
so,
as
I
say
we're
all
we're
all
in
this
together
week.
If
we
mean
we
can't
add
electrical
sockets
that
don't
work,
we've
got
to
work
with
each
other,
and
so
we
need
to
think
about
our
how
we're
with
each
other
and
and
being
that
aggressive,
sometimes
means
people
are
not
hearing.
B
B
B
Collaboration
and
listening
to
others,
that's
him.
We've
talked
a
lot
about
this
sorry
that
I
had
their
wanna
go
faster.
These
last
ones,
if
you
make
a
mistake,
then
admit
that
and
you
can
see,
there's
an
example
of
a
slide
from
an
email
from
somebody
who's,
a
very,
very
strong
contributor
and-
and
he
said
very
maturely,
I
I
reacted
to
what
you
said.
I'm
sorry
I
was
wrong.
B
That
that
keeps
the
flow
going,
don't
be
afraid,
don't
be
afraid
to
say,
I
made
a
mistake
or
don't
be
afraid
to
say
I'm,
going
to
revise
what
I
do
be
a
team
player.
That
means,
if
you
don't
need
agenda
time
like
right
now,
there's
I
get
I
had
10.
I
have
10
minutes
on
an
agenda
I.
Don't
me
I
only
need
five,
so
I'm
going
to
give
it
back,
give
it
back
and
then
went
another
time
when
you
need
it.
People
will
give
it
to
you.
B
So
so
don't
don't
ask
for
more
than
you
need
this
there's
notable
notable
results
of
collab
eration
and
you
can
see
some
of
the
people
who
helped
write.
This
presentation
too,
and
I
know
ralph
said
you
know
he
says
of
dhcp-
is
a
incredible
effort
and
collaboration
for
him.
So
many
other
wonderful
things
have
come
out
as
a
result
of
collaboration.
I
really
encourage.
B
Did
you
and
don't
gain
the
system?
Don't
you
know
people
will
again
people
will
remember
you
it's
a
small
community.
You
know
don't
try
to
get
all
your
friends
to
say
sure.
I
support
this
draft
when
they've
never
participated
on
the
list
before
people
know
that
they'll
see
your
quick
again,
but
on
the
other
hand,
if
you
ask
the
inner
circle
to
comment
on
what
you're
doing
that's
actually
a
very,
very
good
thing
ask
these
people.
B
B
If
you
do
bad
work,
you
can
blame
it
on
all
kinds
of
other
things,
but
it
could
be
just
your
bad
work
so
going
out
drinking,
doesn't
matter
I
don't
like
to
drink,
but
having
said
that,
some
of
the
social
aspects,
that
probably
matter,
is
don't
don't
just
hug
cuddle
in
your
own
little
group
and
talk
to
don't
talking
out
and
talk
to
nobody
else.
Try
to
just
meet
people
try
to
go
out
with
them.
It
makes
it
easier
to
trust.
B
B
There's
this
is
something
you
can
look
up
even
on
Wikipedia,
it's
called
a
collaborative
innovation
network
and
some
people
feel
that
this
is
what
the
IETF
is
is
a
is
a
network
or
around
ethical
principles,
trust
and
self-organization,
where
the
knowledge
is
accessible
to
everyone
and
there's
intellectual
of
internal
honesty
and
transparency.
They
call
that
in
the
social
science
world
they
call
that
a
coin,
and
there
are
people
who
feel
that
the
ietf
is
an
example
of
this
kind
of
network.
I.
B
Think
there's
a
lot
of
truth
to
that
that
this
could
be
very
much
how
we
are
now
is
this
very
idealistic
sure
this
is.
This
is
aspirational.
Yes,
I
know
that
sometimes
there
are
very
aggressive
people,
people
who
push
the
agenda
of
their
own
companies
to
the
detriment
of
everything
else.
You
know
people
who
don't
listen
to
others.
B
But
it's
worth
trying
again
what
we're
trying
to
do
is
innovation
for
the
Internet.
So
if
the
IETF
doesn't
approach
being
a
meritocracy
and
doesn't
approach
having
the
best
solutions
and
now
it's
all
going
to
fall
apart
and
it
doesn't
and
it
hasn't
fallen
apart,
so
do
we're
doing
something
right
now.
It's
not
perfect.
It's
not
perfect,
but
I
think
it's
approaching
the
the
right
way
and
a
lot
of
why
is
because
of
the
values
and
the
beliefs
of
of
the
IETF.
B
Anyway,
I
my
email
is
in
the
front
I
wish
we
had
more
time
for
discussion,
do
do
email
me
or
catch
me
around
and
I'd
love
to
talk
to
you,
if
you
guys
have
comments
on
it
that
the
draft
is
out.
If
you
want
to
help
do
more
on
the
draft.
If
you
have
opinions,
would
love
to
hear
as
I
said
this,
it's
a
living
document.
So
thank
you
all
very
much
and.