Internet Engineering Task Force 98, 28 Mar 2017

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From YouTube: IETF98-TRAM-20170328-1450

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TRAM meeting session at IETF98
2017/03/28 1450

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C

A

To disappear soon,.

A

Mike is really close to there is this normal.

D

C

There should be a thing.

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B

E

Is not fond of you either in or out.

B

Alright, let's get started.

C

Okay, everyone: this is tram Christine,.

C

Alright, so we'll art with usual chairs, update next well. Next, we need a minute taker.

C

Well, thank you if we can have a diaper scribe. That would be nice, although is tricked Thank You Jonathan and, as usual, the meeting materials, slides and everything are at this. Url and work happens on the mailing list at this URL and you can subscribe their necks.

C

So the agenda is we'll, do our update and then we have a presentation by mark about Sundays. He will try to get all the open issues resolved and get this working last call, and then we I would like to have a working. A group discussion about turn this to make sure that we are aligned with the latest changes in Sunday's and then the meeting ends. So there's nothing extracurricular on the agenda next, so think of the tram since Berlin things have been moving fast aboard the tram and it doesn't.

C

You know if you just look at the Middle East wing's may seem to be dormant, but you know we've done work, so we have two newer seas: yay.

C

Server discovery: there were a lot of revisions, lots of discussions and the discusses have been addressed and the draft is now in the RFC. That's our cue yay.

C

Stun path, MTU discovery has been revised, there's been a working group last call and the draft will be will be sent to a ESG shortly. We just need to do the work and then stunned. This has been revised three times. There are quite a few change, I wouldn't say major changes, but you know medium changes, medium impact changes, and we want to close the discussion today. We want to finish this and send is the working class call and turn this has been refreshed. This was a minor refresh and works.

C

Don't need to be done to review. The stunned is diff and think if needed, you don't actually know if any work is needed, but I see nodding heads. So what additional work might be needed there to sync was done this I think this is it for the chairs update. So with that mark.

A

Yeah any agenda bash.

A

You have to turn it on I turn it off. We wish a test for you.

A

Yeah, it's a bit unstable. Oh.

F

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F

Hello again next slide, please all right. So last time we presented stunned. This was back in Delhi I thought there was a lot of command. Well, not a lot of comment, but some some comments were made and we with my cursor, gonzalo with just started walking, and then we found yet another egg and then another burger and then adult work and then I said okay. We need to stop to stop. There was something wrong and I need to take a bit more time. To do.

F

Complete analysis was on 80, cm long term credential mechanism, which is one of the thing which which lounge a lot in studies. So unfortunately, it was just right in the middle of my move back to California and a new job, so it took a little bit at the bit of time and I skipped sale.

F

So, finally, I did an ADIZ. It was not an LED son's dundas, it wasn't LEDs on start on ever see. 50 389 and I found a bunch of public much I, some minor of some less. So we talked her talk with food return, which we want to dunk again for his help on all the surveying. Some and then we send a proposal for ELISA was somewhere I can forcibly put the modification in size as early story police. Also so modification so I will go through quickly.

F

We, there was some we said delaesh you when packet was drugged because of an unattached, so instead of having a timeout in this case, we cannot read, wanted a new signal to the upper layer. That said well, you are under attack which got me to close a production a little bit quicker.

F

We made something explicit I mean you could deduce how it works and for the people implemented the white where, but it was not explicitly stated how to to walk about 400 without authentication. My experience is that usually need to explain all the step carefully, so we did that we found some of the should. We did not make sense at all in the document in exam most and some place.

F

We make some small in ink improvement, even ants and the password of warms, and we are. We are trying to peek over into exchange into the oxygens instead of three chosen.

F

We so small modification, which is I, think some case, an improvement in security, which is when you have some dings announced or we're changing the password. If you still out the nonce from the previous time, we are still the bus throughout from the previous time, then you can use it to sign the response instead of sending naked or respond. So it's nice. So you do it or you don't do it, but if you do it, obviously there is a little bit more security than you can add.

F

You cannot before okay, so one of the thing was that and only that it was 401 unauthorized which is kind of incorrect. This is not an authorized. This is an authenticated so which one user text turn is doing user, separate response Cody for an authorized, different beginner and there were some tags. I said you can add an in my message. Integrity and some rest months were clearly. There was no no possibility at all to do this, so we remove the possibility. So this was the first aid with the bishop that was probably dash, 0 9.

F

So next like this, then after fixing like we could at last come back to the issue that that were presented in darlina, so we did at so go suck on the wound up modification on dash ten.

F

So we remove some silly things like the other preserve the 0 in the security orchestrated make sense, because this is a bit sets obviously the horses of meeting in a bit set, except that no be following the recommendation of the working group. We said that the minimum potential size for ni 256 is 16 bytes.

F

We also change the location of the rattle. You have you have two choice which was from the right of from the left, so we align with exist text which I don't remember what is, but this is allowing with what other is doing. So is not surprised too much developer on.

F

We added the visitor section in area 53, 89 learning and instant base that list what all the stern usage should say in the respective FC point. So we add other the fact that not from now astern users should state explicitly is a use truncation on the track.

F

We, this was silly. We remove the truncation from the message integrity. This is an old stuff. We don't need to care about this. This is going out all over the world missing recommendation from well Jonathan. We added a link to the secret out of white subs are cut out two tubes. Also, this is a COC guess thanks.

F

So yes, I think it's an important because it's not easy to find, and finally, this was a response from an email from early during their lean one of the beginning. Is that only sent and we replace the restaurant storage here, 2018 360 125- and we are dated the text accordingly, to explain how to verify the domain name from the certificate on and to verify hit against the the Monday next slide. Please and then we did yet another update, which is dash 11, which is a last one.

F

So I went back for all these things and I am I fixed a little bit more stuff. So first one is kind of abuse is to say that we should use same type of ash marking the subsequent collection that are used. But again we really need to spell it out these things clearly and the last one dress. One is a little bit more, it's a little bit as it was from a suggestion from someone I, don't remember if you think it was in darling, so add to this version.

F

We used what we call the nonce cookie only when we needed it. So the nonce cookies are small cookie that we had in front of the nonce to say we have some additional security properties that you want. We want to use, and there was one at the beginning, which was a possibility to change the password algorithm, and then we added a subtle one, which was to be able to ash username alright. So the problem now is that you have an exponential number and increase of the number of cookie with the itu-r for possibility.

F

You need for cookies well exactly because you don't use this year so instead of doing this on, what we did we did is that we added for which four characters to the coquito between the cookie and the non sir. We are the out there, which is 24 bits when it's connected from base64, which gives us 24 bits of additional security properties that you can choose in in the future.

F

We created the registry for that and we allocated the first to date, so those for and if you want to use password, algorithm and also long dick is, if you want to use user hush, you want to wash your username, so the next step was well. Why don't? We send always the nonce cookie, even before zero value in the bit set to signal that we support and mi to is that we support the new ashmac based on the night sure 250 six.

F

So now you always send the nonce cook cook cook, and so you know immediately.

F

Understand this client knows immediately that the server is also austin disk Ryan and do not have to send both the message: integrity and the message integrity 256 to the server. So we the first the first step- is a little bit simpler for both the client and the server. But now, if you don't use any of the security properties, then you just send a bit set that contain all the other side. This is why we remove it also konser register, so that was always done and this is occur on the current set.

F

So are we are so there is still too small I, don't know they will tell me things that we need to fix, and so, if you come up, the next type is alright. So we talked about this. We talked a lot about this and we decide that something. I would like one. Last.

A

Time so get yourself mark before you go on. We would like really to close these issues right. So, let's focus on closely not just going through and, as you know, it happens in many working groups. So so, please, you know each of the issues. Let's give it a thought and we will only postpone it if there's really need to happen, something else like more information. Otherwise, we would like to really make the decisions today. So.

F

Some something bad happened with shower is just recently.

F

Which kind of make me not coping I as I skipping that we are doing the right things? I am or we had a long dist description, the computer or neither, and we think that the ing, maybe not completely at ease with the things we are doing so and I was thinking about this because I know if some of you went to the security tutorial on Sunday, which by the way was very interesting, and that was one slide. That said to do not do exactly what we are doing so well. So.

F

So they said, use agility, do not use a disc, changer sagittis, so I do not use agility for algorithm. Do not use a beef shank, the algorithm, which is using a protocol which made exams. So the thing is that I went back to the mailing list and everybody more or less a great such as was the right thing to do. Keep it simple for what we are doing all right now it will go off in front of the AV, the aeg. We said. Okay, we said not. Okay, I don't know.

F

I just wanted to our last preemptive.

F

Question which is, do we still want to do this or not, and I would like to add one small thing, so this thing was difficult to design and to do, and the reason is that I could not find a lot of guidance, so those be done attack prevention, saturated by at the IETF, a nice Arabs. Also the literature, Windsor I mean I. I went to a jcm library and Google's crust and there is not people talk about this, but that will explain kind of farm work, how together Madonna attack.

F

So please do to me that's not an area which is really well explained on my lands. In any way we like to put this questioning in front of you. Would we continue this this way? Do we want to charge another thing that make mending things about this? So just after the shower attacking the project, which is part, is the biggest user of shower ashes and the people engaged after to say well thought we should do something I and they are jumping directly from sherwin to shark week. They will be doing shaft 32 62-56.

F

We are doing shots, ooh 256. So are we doing the right thing? Where do you want me to go on up to the end when we we talk about this or we be open? So, um let's see fixing one inch at a time. I think so.

A

I would like to hear from you what you do your mother stood so mark I mean in because the idea is to get a solution. If you put forward a proposal, I think that would work better. My.

F

Proposal is to do nothing and to keep what we have. Okay.

C

F

We are is that we are moving in this draft to shut 256 and we will do an extra after this in six months. That will assign no longer use shawan, which was a plan which was originally in FSC, 53, 889 sol.

G

Gonzalo so the reason that I think that this is an issue is that we've made this decision before right. I mean we decided that we would stick with, shall one so no church I hope not not. We stick. You shall on your students which site was shut it, but the idea here, though, is do we need to revisit that decision, simply to be essentially to prevent with what we think we're anticipating from the iesg.

H

Brandon Williams thump I I, recall the meeting where we came to the conclusion that we should stick with this. My recollection is.

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H

Was in a very, very small minority, I'm the group at the time that that said, we should deal with a bit down, stop and deal with forward agility.

H

But if the argument has it changed, if it's really just you know, that seems okay and I think the argument at the time was well, it's just as much work to add another option type to the stun registry, as it is to add another hash type to some other registry that you would set up and let's wear a be able to piggyback easily on a registry that already exists. So if fundamentally, it might just be a question of you know: registry management, overhead at least I- think that's what the opinion was at the time.

H

My opinion hasn't changed. I still think we should build it into the protocol, but I recognize them in a minority there and I'm not going to you know push that I won't be surprised if security review from out of the iesg, enclosed.

G

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I

Strong clinics I mean so the first thing I mean for what we're using its board for HVAC the end of Shah one, that's not on us, not one. It's not broken for a snack, so I'd also for shot to I. Don't think anybody is saying, and nobody thanks lucky that the care of this one desktop read is a very different design, so it gives more. You know it's you're, less likely to have a break that his belt. In the same time, um I feel like um I, think actually are bits.

I

Our half agility right now, it's pretty good I mean maybe I need to review it at I mean I would have worked through all of this to sort of, say, okay. This is all right until and we have some of the most absurdly to the long-term. Some of the cookies.

F

And we're so remember: we have a jelly key for the password I go so right. We have this idea Doug protection for this. We don't have activity for the message: integrity, SH, which is integrity of the message itself act, and there is.

I

Ignoble I mean I think that why we chose the name of the new thing, yeah its integrity shot. It would be six by saying he could have message integrity and he has already want instead of the finder and for.

F

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F

Yeah yeah, you got the geo jenny teased by genetic diversity by defining a new ticket.

I

And I feel like this I, don't see what we would gain by saying we're going to put those additional bit of sake. What Hatcher algorithm it is in the message: integrity into a mess- integrity active. So just you know, get another registry and get another n bits field. That's take those space and messages. Okay, I think you want.

G

To get to use the mic Marquis, but does it put us in a situation where so now on stun turf, whatever the fourth.

I

Provision is where the next place. Ok, now we're going to.

G

Do shop great this.

I

Is all right, I might find it? Actually, this is X is the purpose of Sun. There was a really nice. What we are was your extra questions so.

G

We doesn't put us in a situation where now we have to come up with a fourth revision. That's going to be okay! Now we want to do chalkley and do essentially we do what well.

I

But why is so again I'm trying to see? What's the?

I

How is that different from saying we're going to define a patch ability by putting it in putting big, you're, still good happy to find hey use this algorithm whatever this is? This is the registry, for that mean I mean maybe I mean if you want to say: okay, here's a lighter-weight template for defining. You know message integrity and it message integrity, your hash algorithm here you know, as you know, a you know, a cut-and-paste register, aveeno Sun attribute registration, and this has the special property that the message integrity towards the end.

I

You know Dorothy Africa de yada yada, maybe having a somewhat more general description of how I message integrity. Whatever it's worth, that's fine, but it doesn't. I think that everyone changed how they look on the wire this team, so it's documented and makes the work for defining a new message. Integrity, shot three or whatever slightly less harm, and that's not unreasonable. I. Think that would have had that more emphasized in the document is their version of 'deck. Exactly and and.

H

I I got to say exactly what Jonathan got to it in the end that if either this is our approach for hash agility, that the thing that name is missing from the document is a clear statement of this in our approach and when you want to add another one. This is what it looks like to get there. That may be what's necessary to convince those the quantity, a hash, agility approach that we actually have that covered ya. Gonna.

F

Do an eligible: that's a tumor good good way to do this yeah. So we have a GD t by doing a new document which happened to be a decent Adam day. It's all I.

H

I think that documentation may need to cover the half negotiation and wear it down as.

F

A lot yes as well yeah, so the idea is: how do you turn this to our vertex? We were already other sections, six security consideration that explicitly explained how to move to the next level. So we have to modify this to explain now on, but how would we fix? Why did you it seems reasonable to me.

J

My mind will be quick, I'm Spencer darkens, the responsible yd somebody invoke the name of the is she doing doing with you perhaps sector like any director. That I think will accept requests for early review. If you all want to go to short-circuit long conversation at IHG evaluation time. That may be a good thing to do. Report. Okay,.

A

So so this is because it has a guillotine plan in the document right now. Yes, I will remove the highlighting yeah.

I

So I feel like for what we've lost the edge.

A

Of you so sorry yeah, yeah yeah. This is yeah. Let me yeah I, don't know they.

A

This was it showing so weird. Actually, postal.

I

A

I

I partner, yeah.

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C

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C

I

C

B

A

It is that, ok, they were done. Yeah.

I

I feel, like yeah I, think that's reason alone. We also will hopefully to make sure that the language run, how you prevent this down for a my 76. Is it's also submission in general, for you know why you would read bit down for future a shock where this as well? Yes,.

F

Question I'm, like suggestion, because she's a very album.

C

Right, so you go bugs away understand. It is that this draft, as it is, doesn't prevent bit down at all and the way to prevent bit down is with a later draft or later RFC. That would say, do not use sha-1 anymore, and then you just go into your server configuration or what whatever?

C

If you refuse to use it.

H

I, I think this this one get given the mechanism as its described here. I I, think protection against pitt downs does require that you have an orderly process of I've got you now I deprecated one then I add another one and you can move forward that way. But if you have a multiplicity that are allowed, it just gets more and more complicated to make sure that you've got everything covered.

I

Yes, Jonathan Ive tonight, I think and but there's no I'm, II nice big down as I understand. It is the case where you know both sides want to use the new hash algorithm, but some attacker in the middle is forcing the good undo it all right, so it by the size doesn't want to use the new one. It's not a bit down shift back, peplum sew as I think that we for mi 56 /, say we have a pretty good story for long-term production of positive of your confidential.

I

I'm not sure how well it currently generalized I think some of it is do you have the binocs, cookie and whatnot, because you don't have your short hair so will I need to look at that again.

F

So for stroke them, what would you say that the eyes people use csdp to explain you.

I

Have a nice tubular styling that you have either SBP or a guest on attorney or I next.

F

Time, I'm signaling we're.

I

So you know Cleveland. Obviously, then these are tickling opponent, receptionist part of the Denver luigi's.

F

Which is not normally longer Mahama, so.

I

The I think those my phone off I will, you know, commits you enough means chair. Sleep dragged me to review this, for understanding. Have a bit done works. Look at that I. Think the long term is really good, so many support basin for come unless enough.

H

Brandon Williams again um isn't.

H

Am I remembering correctly that with the Shah 12 sha-256, the thing that protects against bit down is the the. What are we calling it? The nonce cookie and once we've gone beyond one and everything is delivering the nonce cookie. What will protect against bit down for 256 to sha sha 22 shot three or whatever? If everything is it's a really good fun, probably a new cookie, so probs.

F

We need north of cookie bit soft top cause the additional security so yep. First, we can use a big way yeah, it's a good idea. Yes, you can use a bit, which is where the stunts Terrell all right.

I

F

To think of you so I just don't like.

I

This is some terrific neck system.

D

I

D

Two everything.

I

I, don't know any Latin that.

I

I

And as yeah, but it so I think I think you can have a bit in the field, which means you know: hey I support, trial, three yeah, you know, and if your agenda I support, sorry I expect we expected this carrier chaudhary. If you see it something, that's not Joffrey in here we unhappy yeah.

D

I

Again, that's only that's that's the not so that's only about okay, no.

F

No, it's only long-term Lorenzo short term can be only protected by an external things, because you don't have.

D

F

To learn leadership.

D

Things right, which I.

I

Mean that basically have a total debt forever.

F

So protecting the russian dressing only.

I

That meaning I, hey I, expect you know I support the Sasha already got to this algorithm here. So.

F

We probably need to explain a little bit more in this section how this will work for future reference, so we need to expand as it a Whizzer, not taker or okay, and we will need to have the oh.

F

Yeah, I think the concerns you see that yeah okay, so concentrate. Is that why I cannot call the consumption a little bit, but this game summarized here and the beginning.

A

F

The discussion, my understanding, is that we keep things as they are, so we keep our pseudo activity by letting people write a new specification that will define a new attribute and which sounds the text in the Russia Tiki plan to explain how this will be there and.

F

Yet, and we can define all different, we will probably define a new bit in incidents but registry for this, and though everyone should be okay,.

H

And and I would include in that understanding, Spencer's good comment of passing yeah.

D

H

We document their past sector for early review before we get to the point we.

F

Certainly want to make all the modification we can, this time before the end of this meeting and send everything to clear or view at the AG and tutor working.

A

F

A

We will wait for you to rewrite the dress and before asking for any early review, okay, so everyone opposed to these way forward. Please hum! Ok! So then yeah you can move forward with that by the way when, when mark doesn't remember what we have discussed and he goes to the recordings- everything that you guys are saying outside the mic, you know it would not be captured so I think that would be useful to to try to use the mic okay, so on. Let me go to the next slide.

F

Alright, this is the last one. So, but it's.

D

F

So, but back in Berlin, some things have better, not naturally, this was a only saw the email which was well. You need to do something about a key I, didn't call it stone body.

D

F

We were, we didn't know exactly what to do, but I see did an analysis of all the case. I know what we do, I adopt so lunch with that we gave us some rice and we talked with her Jonathan yesterday. I think about this. So the problem is that the analytics thing is not the stunting. Is the stern usage all right?

F

It's not really stunned by itself, not the mechanism, it's how you use them that start to have issues when, when you reserve the man named, you receive one or more ipv4 advice and one or more ipv6 advice. Smart, so I found three cases, so the first one is more or less everything which is related to it.

D

F

Ipa board doesn't really make sense when it's used with ice or where its use with sea, and the reason for this is that. But let's start with eyes with eyes: we already have a mechanism which is us to select between an ipv6 and ipv4 address why?

F

This is what among other things ice is about you prioritize ipv6, before I ipv4, you check the connectivity automatically give give you what is a current best path so using this, and you don't really have inside eyes when you are well, you can get done and I will explain, but it's kind of difficult to do two of two different algorithm, all right. If we do at IPL eyeballs and we have the first selection, which is done by eyes, and then you have a second algorithm which shows what is the connection to use underneath.

F

So it's kind of a complex fix. But all these thing comes from one thing, which is that when you look at the sea liner or when you look at the conical line, you can put an IP address an ipv4 and ipv6 advice and I piggies 10 advice.

F

Maybe, but you can also put a domain name, all right: its authorized, not by Isis authorized by the PTSD plc to put a domain name here. Not a lot of people use this, but it's still here.

F

So what we would like proposed- and we cannot do this in this place- but there is a friend in ice beasts that are revising eyes and one solution that a lot of people we talked to the thing with business, based solutions to to use the fact that we have ice to to say: when don't do this, you cannot use a domain name inside the Salina and inside the candidate when you are doing ice, because your idea, the mechanism to deuces, so in this case it would solve or public- and we can do this in nice too, because it is a new protocol.

F

Yes, you wanted to say something.

K

Called marketing- and we do some hacks when we wanna and after HTTP practice, where we actually using the URL of England ice, can write. But.

K

J

K

Get back to that then.

L

Schwartz, google so similar to an HTTP proxy in the in the context of return, there's also where, where you're using turn services proxy, there's also a situation where it's, it can be logical to use a domain name as your endpoint identifier and I I tried and failed to get a draft through. That would create a an explicit mode for turn to allocate to allocate a remote endpoint, based on a domain name and I'd like to be able to try that again so I. Hopefully it won't get cut out entirely.

I

um Shot life and I work say is how I said I mean how ice behaviors, not something that is not this working. This problem, ah so I mean and I think this and I think you can come up with. Even if you want to leave. The main name is a you know. You know your local candidate, cetera type, so parative be for a dress. You looked up for of your be four candidates or the v6 letters. He looks ugly, racist and eggs or whatever it's really more complicated mess.

I

It's more nice, but you know I, think that could be probably dealt with effectively treated as multiple remote candidates, but that nice, a problem then so I think doesn't resolve it. No.

F

um I, like this.

F

So the other case is the seat: keeper I, which is much inside ice, but I think this is not an issue because I already know what kind of motor car? What cannot transport the youth. So it is not an issue, so your proposal would be led. The ice people deal with it which by the waist Semin, so we left for town, but we will get to this.

G

Thing's also here, um if we do that, I mean I, figured they're released, need to be some text here around.

G

What ice is going to do so if ice does nothing or they screw it up or what I mean? What impact does that have does here? We.

F

Don't really have to say anything because the ice is H are not defined in system processes. It's we, the only usage. We are busy busy edges out of here. It's a bidder. Yes, we have to say something for this, but no, we don't really have to say anything for eyes. I think.

K

Yeah, oh yeah, there's ice craft, although I steal back Tenace, which actually started out as ice.

K

Ok I have two eyeballs fries and yeah I'm, not that I'm not sure whatever. That covers this problem, but it does.

I

So I didn't after it doesn't but follow. This problem is not drunk lesser. It's not actually that hard. Then if we know it, I think it is Isis problem with a solvable problem. I think you know maybe just hate to say: Musa just need to explain how they do yeah. You.

F

Know we need to be 12, adding the users, stun usage list of things to do and tell us exactly added.

I

Yes, names for any reason: Klingon you do you know. Models are exposed.

F

So do we agree to let the ice people figure out and we don't say anything but what Jonathan said so.

A

Anyone opposed to that way forward.

G

And noe Gonzalez- okay, no not opposed at all, but we should have some sort of important to make sure that we circle back with the ice Cubs that they actually do something. Oh yes,.

F

G

Agree is very solvable.

F

Time she gets off, so we were synchronizing with show us to present to do to say the same thing in the music on south bay. I think so we will have to talk before which so as to say Chandrakala mine, well,.

I

I think Jonathan I mean even if you'd like I said either people wanna keep with domain names, it's solvable problems but I think there's a mic. The other person who the object is chris here, because it's easy s do work to adequately. I stuck, but I don't feel good, actually, okay.

I

So then, I think the other thing we would need to sort of be like again is to make sure that the use of the music requirements mention mrs. list. Ok,.

A

So there's, let's make sure we keep crystal in the dark, actually make sure that three steps and total area as well so that they can actually you know, get the feedback from the iseries working group. Okay,.

G

Gonzalo one of the things that realizes, though, I think the discussion had with sue house for the changes for iced, stp or no longer valid I mean based on what ends know that.

F

Something like yes I will topics with okay all right, so the second line is what we have to do anyway, because this is the stern usage. Well, one of these is described inside this up. There I see and the other one exactly the same, so it's relatively simple there, with I audio from the place where to charge it.

F

The right thing with not discovery that we use binding binding, is an miss it. What it impotent required transaction, which means we can send as many as we want. We are not breaking anything, and we have some use case at Jonathan. Explain to us, it gets yesterday, so it will be 0 actively. A simple walk to add to towards the text to the soul is certainly do the booze Arctic. Unless there is question or.

F

People a question on discussed I.

I

Mean c'mon: technically, you should make sure the colorful sorry director might be headin to make sure to point out that just as you're standing on before doesn't mean you won't get a v6 as your as your discovered address, or vice versa. So because you might be blind a 46 enters.

D

I

But yeah I think it's certainly framing the ice cases. The terminal allocated your candidates for all your interfaces and then let some before in some be six, so you send to the v4 stunts address from before it. It'll be nice to them address in 36 and that's easy and you even want you need to set it from all your interfaces anyway.

I

F

I will not take a way to deal with you talk with you so, but so it remember to do, and so the last one the difficult one is the point, because the problem is that another case in turn is not a dedenne potent collections, HW send navigation requests and you can receive a pot and, and it could be or not an issue. I am I I, don't know so it's a nice progression to the next discussion and we think that this is a term of them and they should think I'll to fix this thing.

F

I I don't know there is some year before some with Simon, but we think that this is anywhere Transfiguration and with the text other to the Stanley's are saying yeah. You need to talk about this and we are covered.

F

Is there any comment on the term use edge or if inglot we should be? What is the proposal exactly? He.

C

Can summarize, it is.

F

To do nothing, I stood just updated. The stern usage saying any usage from now say something about API Bible, and then we add this to the list of things to do: zombies, okay, but yeah. Let's still.

C

Think about what would go and turn this.

G

There's never come so Allen's and people from yeah.

F

So uh I have to I ideas on well. So first thing is that they can design an extensions which is an identifier which is command the to request, and then there is only one allegation on the other side and the one which is not use you can can adjust all those projects on and so located only one time.

A

Also, the discussion and firm: this comes right up. Okay, and it was this is your last light. So, let's.

G

A

This up and we're anything else on Sunday yeah.

G

The last thing is so I think that the summary point of this whole slide is based on allies. Email. Do we want to take on so here? This is essentially summary of what work is involved in making this happy. Eyeballs friend, is this something we want to do take on.

C

G

C

Participant yeah I think it totally makes sense for this to be dependent on the actual usage, because done can be used at the IP layer to discover IP layer properties or it can be used as a communication protocol. For example, when talking to turn server, you don't really care about the family of IP that you're using. So it depends on the under usage.

A

Everybody's happy with that, what the main question is, like you guys, have all the information you need to go off and revise the trap. I think we have everything.

F

And we can do it before the end of the week and center okay, we we all refers to want to a sister. You know.

A

I understand I want to make sure you. You are comfortable with that perfect. So moving on to the next one, which is turn-based actually yeah, we.

E

Could date applies actually so.

A

So yeah, given to all.

C

Right, okay, I was looking at so Simon as a participant. Again. I was looking at section 6.2 in chambers, which explains what the server does when it receives an alligator request and how it detects retransmissions, and so it uses transaction ID and the five tuple. So one option would be to remove the five people from the check. If you receive the same transaction ID on a different five tuple, possibly from somebody else, it's the same transaction. So keep in mind there 96 bits of randomness, they're lost authentication.

C

Yeah, so yes, but authentication, is part of the retransmission detection, yeah.

K

I sort of think I like that, because we also have problems because clients needs to, but if they go down enough, they can't reuse their original local part. Because of this problem because to get the same binding in math and then.

I

Just makes allocate requests which generate a 401 or item butters. Okay, a.

E

I

All your first allocate requests should always generated for a while.

I

I

Kimmy elaborate, basically, you send an allocate request with no authentication information to both the forest, except versus you'll, get a 401 response from one or the other or both at which point you send the one with your dedication fish awesome unless somebody figured a print server to not movies with medication in Todd, restless expect with. Sometimes people do it's.

C

Mandatory internal.

I

Actually, no we're changing that for that. That's because we're jaitley it was mad at her in turn, but I think we're changing it for the biggest topologically equivalent outs on proxy. Basically, if you can enforce this important to educate offers, eight and through you know, network topology or whatever they don't have to have. Ok,.

C

So then, suppose that an enterprise network sets up any caste ranges for both ipv6 and ipv4 and they turn off the communication because they manage the network and you get to allocations. It's not a big problem. Either you just kill one yeah.

I

C

That was my second proposal document that you need. Two kills one yeah.

I

C

If you don't keep it alive, if you just forget about it, it'll die by.

I

Itself you actually, there is a supposed to kill, that's a serious.

C

Yes, yes, refresh.

I

With zero right, yes, what we refresh with zero references there, so I think! Yes, there is, you know, so I think between those things and then the only of course reflecting over over tcp. You can do the standard, tcp happy items, just whatever one ability to be connectors, who.

C

Extremely happy term goals we.

I

Have three different answers for how you how you furball, so a sort of in order part works. Yep.

C

Okay Jonathan: can you volunteer to send texts to the list summarizing this we learned here. Thank you.

B

I

A

Note taker: do you get that, but so the fact that he volunteered okay.

A

Okay, um yeah more things about term base um mark. Do you have anything else.

F

So I still have on my list to do a review for us and to do all of you for a term of the point of view worst undies, so I suffered with Eterna wanna, and this is big. Spec and I I stopped avoiding to develop ER times to be starts. Oh yeah, I finish what I will get back to take from yeah. I will restart my my review and I will send or.

A

Use the next so to be clear, you will review turn this from the point of view of the new standards of the story, because that's exactly what we are concerned about, so you will be sending basically am a complete or view but x. Only from the point of view, escondido.

J

Excellent because that's exactly what we need.

A

Okay, perfect, that's great, but while.

C

We're all in the room is there anything you can. Think of. That would merit discussion well.

F

So I found one thing which I didn't like is a new term base and the problem is that's. Why turn on a few months somewhere? Oh man, I, didn't take it with me. So and I don't remember, because this was few months ago. I didn't find anything very important studies part. So, but it's normal stuff. This is this is aligning the way they are doing things to the way we are we'll fix, a unique, and now you need to use charcoal develops. Not small yeah I mean I'm. Sorry I should have taken this with me.

A

Okay, how do you sort of vision and ebook to take electronic notes just kidding thanks a lot for everyone, and you know I mean we are looking forward to receiving it. Alan and Peter couldn't be here. Unfortunately, that's why I mean it's a bit difficult to drag the discussions, but anyway I think this input. This is what they need. Actually, okay, so anything anything else well, I mean just to be clear, like you were mentioning before, like you know, getting more drugs through and stuff I mean to be clear.

A

We are trying to close this working group. So in that sense, if somebody wants, you know to publish more drugs or things that we should be doing more work, I mean now it would be, but now I mean drop us an email or on the mailing list so that we analyze that, because I mean to be honest at the level of energy is not the best. So so we want to avoid just you know, adding staff and generating drugs that they take.

A

You know years to complete, so so that's where we are, if you don't agree, please I mean talk to us so that we can understand if there's something that that realistic Lee makes sense to to do German. Oh.

I

Yeah something then another word: a number of suggestions are the working group of potential extensions and that time is now, let's get the visions of the first sex up first, but I think there was sort of some thought that you might go back to those things afterwards. There's usually I feel like there's often more energy, for you know a queuing new things and getting old things working well commercially. If there's somebody okay, yeah.

A

It could be not. My concern is exactly I mean energy, so so what I would like to avoid these? Like the chairs? Now we go and try to generate some energy I mean this would be actually people that are ready to spend cycles, and if they are I mean we are more than happy and I mean we would need to talk to Spencer, of course, but yeah.

A

We would be more than happy food to working on the extensions that we were talking about, but but not just artificially, where there's no real interest, so that I think we are all in the same page. Regarding that, yes, that's.

L

Where it's google, we have, we have working groups, for we have our to see. Well still, it seems like we have size. So my as long as as long as it's made clear that the work can continue that basically improvements to turn can happen and that there is a place for them. It doesn't it's not important to me which working group they happen in, but I have at least felt maybe I'm wrong that sometimes a working group closes and and people just say: well, that's it!

L

This standard can no longer be modified unless you go through the whole working group formation.

A

Process so to be clear, I don't care either I mean, let's focus on doing the right thing. If it's you know, ad sponsor is a different working group is to keep this alive. It doesn't matter so just concentrate on my point on is their energy and once there's energy, we will do the magic admin support so that it happens. So exactly these more about whether this something that needs to be done and we will decide, you know how and what and when for.

C

Example, if suppose that could decides to use stunned as a substrate will keep the working group alive.

H

K

It's having real implementations going to add energy. You think, because we have a few things we do with stunning. We would like to document and send to the working good you haven't. We have done that in in the Sun trace regard where we use ICMP messages and get Kiba, and we have working implementation and getting feedback from that. That we would like to share with you good problem. Is that getting that into browsers.

A

Telescopes really I mean right and that's why we're in the idea, because this is kind of networking paradise in that sense, you can talk to people from browsers. You can talk, so it's not really talking to us. We can help, obviously, but the idea is to form a community that you know decides that this is important, so so yeah, that's why we are here. We as everybody.

A

C

All about demonstrating you.

J

Know enthusiasm.

C

And community- and you know critical, mass and right now we're in closer mode and, as you can see from you, the level of activity both in email list and in the room. You know, clothing mode is what you should be in yeah.

K

And I will yep so.

A

The message is: if there's something you believe it's important, please let us know create traction around it, and then we will. We will take it: okay, yeah at summarizing, okay, anything else, any other business before we wrap up okay. So thank you for coming. The meeting is adjourned.

E

A

E

E

Usually I just like to try this.

E