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From YouTube: IETF99-WGCHAIRS-20170719-1200
Description
WGCHAIRS meeting session at IETF99
2017/07/19 1200
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/99/proceedings/
A
Buddy
to
the
working
group
chairs
forum
at
IH-
f
99
next
slide,
so
this
is
transitioned
over
time.
It's
now
on
me
deco.
It's
now
an
official
part
of
the
agenda,
so
I
am
officially
also
putting
up
the
note
well
because
we
are
still
in
the
IETF,
but
the
intention
is
still
for
this
to
be
a
working
group
chairs,
discussion,
forum,
kind
of
thing
next
slide.
Our
agenda
for
today,
Heather
is
going
to
provide
us
an
update
on
the
RFC
format.
A
A
B
B
So
the
first
time
I
came
to
a
working
group
chairs.
Lunch
was
about
two
years
into
the
project
and
there
were
folks
that
still
had
no
idea.
I
was
changing
anything
and
started
to
lecture
me
on
the
needs
for
things
like
SVG
and
non
ASCII
characters
and
I
smile,
and
not
it
yeah.
You
think
so
great
a
reason
I'm
presenting
again
today
is
because
it's
it's
becoming
less
than
vaporware
and
a
fine
idea
in
my
own
head.
B
We
actually
have
tools,
not
all
the
tools,
and
these
these
are
things
that
are
still
requiring
some
testing
and
I
hope
that
you
all
will
be
able
to
help
with
that.
So
we're
gonna
talk
about
with
a
really
annoying
flicker
a
little
bit
about
the
project
status.
What
tools
are
sort
of
in
use?
What
tools
are
in
testing
other
things
that
we're
looking
at
and
then
the
overall
course
of
the
project.
So
the
first
tool
I
want
to
talk
about
is
ID
2
XML.
B
B
B
So
the
source
code
is
available
at
the
link
at
the
bottom
of
the
page.
It's
also
available,
if
you're
more
used
to
working
through
the
web
interface.
The
xml
RFC
experimental
page
has
this
as
well
as
the
some
of
the
work
going
on
in
the
the
v2
to
v3
converter,
so
xml
to
RFC
version,
2.7
point
o.
If
any
of
you
read
the
release,
notes
you'll
see
that
this
particular
version
of
xml
to
RFC
does
v2
to
v3.
B
B
We're
talking
about
the
the
ongoing
list
of
tools
that
will
make
v3
a
reality
and
we're
talking
about
shifting
things
around
a
little
bit
so
that
we
at
least
have
something
that
can
consume
this
and
enable
testing.
There
is
I
think
one
tool
set
out
in
the
community
put
together
by
Julian
rush
key
that
can
do
some
of
this
work
consume
v3
spit
out
the
three
output,
which
is
which
is
great,
but
for
solid
testing.
Of
course
you
need
you
need
more
than
that.
You
need
more
than
just
this
one
example.
B
B
B
So
one
of
the
things
we
thought
is
if
we
started
taking
examples
now
of
of
internet
drafts
with
non
ASCII
characters
and
sending
it
through
the
RFC
production
centers
tool
existing
toolset.
We
would
see
okay.
What
what
do
we
already
have
that
needs
to
change,
and
there
is
quite
a
bit.
The
database
itself
needs
to
change
when
it
it
was
originally
configured
as
a
latin-1
database.
Well,
that's
not
going
to
work
with
utf-8
characters,
so
so
we're
talking
ground-floor
on
up
in
terms
of
the
changes
that
have
to
happen.
B
There
are
a
couple
of
tools
that
are
used
today
that
are
fundamentally
necessary
for
producing
RFC's.
That
will
have
to
be
if,
if
we
want
to
publish
anything
with
non
ASCII
characters
right
now,
these
tools
will
have
to
be
updated
and
then
thrown
away
because
they're
not
going
to
be
used
in
the
v3
world.
B
The
precis
drafts
are
particularly
near
and
dear
to
my
heart,
given
that
they're
kind
of
why
I
think
the
non
ASCII
character
stuff
is
just
so
fundamentally
critical
to
to
the
RFC
series
and
moving
forward
getting
off
our
names
right
is
important.
Getting
the
actual
technical
standard
itself
inspect
readable.
It's
really
kind
of
I
think
a
useful
thing
for
us
to
be
able
to
do,
and
those
drafts
are
I
believe
in
last
call
right
now,
so
the
sooner
I'll
be
able
to
publish
non
ASCII
characters,
the
happier
I'll
be
we
did
have
some
questions
about.
B
There
are
other
checkers
that
are
used,
the
mid
check
or
yang
checker.
A
B
and
F
found
out
this
week
that
the
mid
checker
will
be
fine,
because,
while
you
can't
use
non
ASCII
characters
there
anyway,
the
Yankee
is
compliant
no
problem
a
B
and
F.
That's
gonna
need
some
work,
I,
don't
know
how
many
people
have
gone
up
to
Bill,
Fenner
and
said
so.
Phil
bought
this
AV
enough
checker
and
associated
document
this
week
and
he's
like
wait.
No,
that
was
15
years
ago,
stop
but
I
think
enough.
B
People
have
started
poking
it
and
that
those
brain
cells
are
starting
to
come
to
the
floor
and
we'll
see
some
changes
on
that
one.
The
SVG
checker
I,
don't
have
that
available
for
testing.
Yet
Sean
Leonard
is
the
one
behind
that
and
hopes.
We
hope
to
have
something
ready
for
ITF.
100
I've
heard
tell
that
there
are
some
working
groups
that
have
SVG
files,
that
they
are
ready,
willing
and
able
to
start
throwing
at
this
when
we
have
it.
B
There
are
more
tools
on
the
list.
If
you
remember
the
first
slide
that
actually
had
content,
it
has
the
tools
wiki.
That
gives
you
sort
of
the
the
rough
outline
of
plan
of
what
tools
were
having
an
in
what
order,
roughly
what
what
range
of
dates
we
expect
to
have
them
available.
So
that
includes
this
list
of
what
are
the
other
tools
that
we're
talking
about
rewriting
idean.
B
It's
actually
getting
those
PDF,
a3
and
HTML
outputs,
as
well
as
the
new
text
output,
doing
a
kind
of
difference,
anity
checking
with
RFC
lint,
the
SVG
checker,
taking
that
ID
to
XML,
as
I
said
now,
it
spits
out
v2.
It
will
need
to
be
updated
to
do
v3
that
that
made
logical
sense
under
the
cover.
So
it's
not
as
crazy
as
you
might
think.
B
So
that's
where
things
stand
definitely
will
need
community
assistance.
The
RSC
production
Center
are
known
to
be
detailed,
oriented
folks,
otherwise
we
wouldn't
be
able
to
get
through
some
of
the
drafts
that
you
all
send
us,
but
this
is
a
lot
to
be
tested.
You
have
far
more
use
cases
than
actually
end
up
submitted
to
us.
We
need
your
help
in
the
testing
as
as
these
things
come
along,
there
is
a
mailing
list
that
has
been
revived
to
focus
purely
on
v3
tool:
testing.
That's
the
XML
to
our
C
dev
list.
I.
B
Think
the
last
time
that
list
was
actually
used
was
like
in
2013
or
2014,
or
something
like
that.
I'd
sent
a
note
to
the
list,
saying
we're
about
to
revive
it,
which
I'm
sure
surprised
any
number
of
people
who
said.
Oh,
my
god,
I'm
still
on
this
list,
but
the
list
is
open
for
your
subscription.
If
you
want
to
sit
in
lurk
chime
in
it's
always
very
much
appreciated
and
just
for
reference
I,
don't
expect
you
to
read
that,
but
it's
in
the
slides
for
you
later.
B
If
you
want
to
just
double
check
what
RFC's
are
even
talking
about
the
define
the
format,
this
is
the
list.
Obviously
it's
not
a
smallest
and
the
design
team
that
put
it
together
did
an
epic
job
in
thinking
all
it
through
and
just
about,
no
not
just
about
every
pretty
much
every
one
of
those
documents
has
to
go
through
this
process,
because
this
is
what
we
think
was
supposed
to
be,
and
then
we're
gonna
see
what
reality
does
to
our
beautiful
shining
ivory
tower
and
then
fix
the
documents
to
match
reality.
B
C
B
C
E
Right
so
I'm
sent
a
question
and
I
noticed
in
the
your
your
RFC
about
the
use
of
utf-8
and
or
Unicode
in
RFC's.
The
text
version
did
not
include
any
Unicode
Isetta
limitation
for
the
current
tools,
or
is
that
the
intended
okay?
So
the
intention
is
eventually
the
text
versions
would
also
be
utf-8.
Just
you
can't
do
that
yet
right
that.
B
F
B
F
G
G
H
B
I
A
And
while
Greg
is
getting
situated,
I
heard
somebody
ask
at
the
beginning
of
this.
If
there
was
materials
part
of
the
making,
the
working
group
chairs
forum
official
on
me
to
echo-
and
all
of
that
is,
we
do
actually
have
materials
up
as
part
of
the
materials
page
now
I
think
the
agenda
link
is
now
working.
A
So
we
are
thankful
for
the
changes,
we've
gotten
and
still
trying
to
figure
out,
because
this
is
not
really
like
a
working
group
and
so
that
the
way
it
was
designed
to
fit
into
data
tracker
doesn't
quite
align
so
we're
you
know
we
keep
changing
the
requirements
underneath
them
and
saying
oh
well.
We
really
want
this
shiny
thing
over
here
after
they've,
provided
us
the
shiny
thing
over
there
so
anyway,
so
the
materials
are
up
there
somewhere,
you
can
find
them
go
ahead.
Greg
do.
J
Yeah,
so
my
name
is
Greg.
Wood
I've
been
working
on
a
few
things,
including
trying
to
get
a
revamped
dub-dub-dub,
IT,
org,
sort
of
front
pay
or
front
door
of
the
for
the
ITF
in
place.
How
many
people
know
that
there's
a
an
effort
to
make
that
happen?
Excellent
I,
don't
think
I
beat
Heather,
but
that
was
a
good,
so
I'm
gonna
do
a
real,
quick.
J
It's
gonna
be
pretty
brief,
but
I'm
gonna
do
a
real,
quick
recap
of
how
we
got
to
today,
because
I
know
folks
have
heard
it
before,
but
I
think
it's
important
to
remember
talk
a
little
bit
about
where
things
are
going
and
then
answer
any
questions
or
take
any
feedback.
Folks
have
so
just
a
long
time
ago,
in
a
galaxy
far
away
far
far
away,
there
was
a
scope
of
work
that
was
shared
with
the
idea
mailing
list.
There's
input
taken
and
the
scope
of
work
was
Shabazz
was
led
to
the
actual
project
plan.
J
So
we
went
out
and
talked
to
a
lot
of
folks
from
those
various
groups.
Got
input
created
a
design
document
out
of
that
and
started
implementing
it
with
with
a
vendor
that
was
selected,
I'll,
say
in
in
parallel.
What's
happened,
I
think
the
data
tracker
has
evolved
quite
a
bit
and
changed
so
we
tried
to
line
line
things
up
with
that.
J
Skipping
ahead
last
ITF
meeting
ITF
98,
there
was
sort
of
a
soft
launch
preview
where
we
had
sort
of
office
hours
and
to
feedback
from
folks
we
adapted
the
the
draft
site
based
on
that
feedback
and
continued
working
on
it,
and
just
before
this
meeting
started,
Russ
sent
a
note
to
the
ITF
lists
and
hey
you
can
go.
Take
a
look
at
beta
about
ITF
dot,
org
poke
around.
Let
us
know
what
you
think:
it's
still
work-in-progress,
so
we
definitely
wanted
to
share
it
early
and
get
and
get
input
and
we've
gotten
some
input.
J
J
You
know,
but
of
course
it
needs
to
work
for
for
all
Dion
audiences,
including
current
participants
and
and
potential
participants,
so
I
think
that's
the
quick
rundown,
oh
I
should
say
that
feedback.
There
are
a
couple
of
ways
and
Russ
in
his
note
mentioned
that
there's
a
email,
alias
thing
called
webmaster
daityas
org,
there's
a
github
issue
tracker
that
we're
using
to
track
issues
and
people
could
some
issues
there,
and
so
we
are.
We
are
checking
that
and
there
are
still
office
hours
during
the
meeting
this
week
so
Friday
morning.
J
K
Hi
Tim
Chan,
you
probably
remember
my
email
right,
yeah
I,
think
what
we're
gonna
have
to
come
to
is
the
realization.
Now
that
ITF
dot
org
is
basically
the
place
that
non
participants
will
go
to
to
find
stuff.
I
kind
of
accept
that
it's
the
way
that
modern
web
pages
look
I
like
the
fact
that
it's
it
works
well
in
responsive
mode
on
a
phone.
So
it's
still
quite
presentable.
There
I
think
the
realization
is
those
participants
we're
going
to
have
to.
Basically
the
data
tracker
will
be
our
landing
page.
K
I
think
the
important
thing
is
to
make
sure
that
the
important
thing
is
to
make
sure
that
everything
on
the
data
tracker,
and
particularly
the
left-hand
pane,
is
captured
from
the
existing
IETF
home
page,
which
is
where
I
think
a
lot
of
us
maybe
still
go
to
do
common
things
like
a
submission
of
drafts,
etc.
So
it's
kind
of
like
the
corporate
front
page
as
opposed
to
this
sort
of
intranet,
which
is
what
the
data
tracker
and
the
excellent
tools
pages
I.
K
Think
that's
my
interpretation
of
it
and
it's
it's
kind
of
okay,
I'm
sure
I'll
get
used
to
it,
and
it's
just
like
a
female
doctor
who
I'll
get
used
to
that
as
well.
So
it's
all!
Ok,
I!
Think
it's
just
a
bit.
You
know
once
you've
seen
something
and
being
familiar
with
it
for
so
long.
It's
just
a
bit
of
a
shock.
I
think
yeah
it'll
be
a
shock
to
the
doctor
as
well,
when
he
regenerates
something
that
as
well.
J
Yeah
I'll,
say
I
think
one
of
the
things
we
heard
for
sure
at
the
last
IETF
meeting
was
that
people
came
to
dub-dub-dub
the
IETF,
that
org
idea
of
participants
came
and
what
they
used
was
meeting
registration
and
the
left
hand
set
of
links.
I
won't
call
it
navigation
because
it
isn't
actually
navigation
to
the
dev
site.
It's
a
set
of
links
to
resources
that
are
commonly
used
so
I,
don't
know
if
it'll
work
on
that.
J
But
if
you
hit
the
the
tools
menu
item
up
there
and
that's
something
new
you'll
see
that
there's
a
drop
down
link
to
some
of
the
commonly
used
things
right
and
if
you
click
on
Tools
itself,
that
takes
you
to
a
page
which
is
still
being
refined.
That
has
essentially
a
replication
of
links
that
are
currently
on
this
on
the
left
side.
Yeah
I,
understand
and
the
scrolling
is,
for
example,
is
a
really
is
really
good
point.
So
it's
something
that's
a
great
example
of
feedback
that
we
need
to
address.
Thanks
hi.
E
C
C
J
J
Yeah
I'll
say
that
one
of
the
questions
has
been
so.
Why
do
you
have
this
here?
That's
not
going
it's
not
a
question,
but
you
know
like
this
is
not
the
thing
that
you
would
have
on
your
front
page
once
you
find
a
production,
and
maybe
a
clarification
is
that
we
wanted
to
have
something
up
there
that
definitely
put
this
site
in
context
about
where
it
is
now.
It's
not
the
front
of
home
page,
so
don't
think
of
it
as
such,
but.
J
Once
once
it
goes
into
production,
we'll
have
images
of
from
the
hackathon
or
people
having
discussions
or
perhaps
images
relating
to
current
current
blog
post
there's
a
recent
blog
post
by
I'm
gonna
forget
it,
but
it
was
basically
about
automated
calling
capabilities
for
vehicles
and
it
was
there's
a
RFC
few
RFC's
that
were
published,
and
then
the
authors
of
the
RFC's
wrote
a
blog
post
explaining
them
so
again,
keeping
in
the
idea
that
it's
the
work
of
the
ITF,
that's
really
really
important,
but
some
people
need
help
understanding.
What
that
work
is
hi.
L
Greg
Allison
Lincoln
I
RTF
chair,
I'm
I,
just
want
I,
also
want
to
thank
you.
You've
been
very
communicative
and
very
clear
to
various
the
stakeholders.
I
knew
about
including
myself.
When
you
put
images
up,
will
so
I've
been
through
a
number
of
corporate
type
things
I
know
we're
not
going
to
get
close
to
corporate,
but
well
you
have
a
panel
of
folks
who
kind
of
I
test
them
to
make
sure
that
that
you
know
you're,
aware
of
different
paths,
reactions
of
different.
J
Yeah
I
think
I
think
that's.
That
is
definitely
the
plan.
It's
something
that
I
know
Alissa
is
interested
in
is
making
sure
that
there
are
there's
the
opportunity
to
have
these
kinds
of
things,
sort
of
reviewed
with
more
eyeballs
and
maybe
not
solve
issues
but
highlight
issues
to
say,
hey.
You
know,
you
really
should
think
about
that
and
go
talk
to
that
person
to
figure
it
out
so
yeah.
That's
definitely
part
of
the
plan.
Thank
you.
A
A
A
Much
better,
so
what
I
wanted
to
know
we
used
to
do
tutorials.
We
did
full
day
not
full
day.
We
did
full
hour
tutorials
and
then
we
migrated
to
this
open
forum
format,
and
you
know
we
have
covered
a
number
of
the
fairly
obvious
topics
thus
far
and
so
I'm
trying
to
solicit
a
little
bit
of
input
on
where
we
want
to
go
with
this
particular
forum.
I
have
a
couple
of
topics
for
next
time,
but
I'm
wondering
what
the
best
way
to
solicit
input
going
forward
on
the
MIS.
A
A
One
of
them-
and
it
was
most
mostly
because
we
wanted
a
little
bit
more
time
to
properly
prepare
it
before
this
one
is
what
are
the
implications
of
the
you
know
whether
the
change
is,
what
are
the
differences
between
the
new
IPR
RFC
and
the
old
one,
based
on
the
that
I
mean
obviously
I.
Never
you
have
probably
seen
the
blog
would
have
come
out
another
one
and
she's,
not
in
here
so
I'm,
not
gonna,
put
her
on
the
spot
has
to
had
to
do
with
interactions
with
the
the
Secretariat
like.
A
A
A
Wasn't
I
know
the
last
I
saw
panel
that
I
organized
we
did
a
survey
out
of
that
and
I
actually
I
add
one
of
the
questions.
One
of
the
responses-
I
added
was
I'm
only
here
for
the
free
lunch,
but
people
don't
tend
to
answer
that
very
honestly,
I'll
have
to
say
I
guess:
I
could
do
that.
How
many
people
are
here
only
for
the
free
lunch
I've
got
to
say
if
you're
here
only
for
the
free
lunch
and
beautiful
Prague
in
this
rather
dark
conference
right
then
there's
something
wrong.
A
It's
beautiful
and
sunny
and
there's
good
food
outside
all
right.
So
some
what
I'd
like
to
do
is
sort
of
open
up
the
floor
for
suggestions
for
future
topics
and
then
also
encourage
you
eventually
to
go
to
the
wiki.
So
I
would
like
a
brainstorming
session
on
what
you
all
would
like
to
hear
or
what
you
would
like
to
discuss
and
I
think
we're
stick.
A
N
Is
Barry
liebe
and
I'm
gonna
push
back
on
what
you
just
said:
I
actually
liked
it
when
we
had
one
or
maybe
two
topics
that
filled
the
time,
rather
than
here's
a
list
of
things
that
we
want
to
chat
about
for
five
minutes,
each
or
10
minutes
each
or
whatever,
I.
Don't
have
particular
suggestions
right
now
for
topics,
but
I
will
know
that
over,
but
I
thought
we
did
really
well.
When
we
said
the
topic,
this
time
is
going
to
be
X
I
like
that.
Okay.
O
Robert
sparks
I'm
going
to
agree
with
Barry,
for
if
we
continue
in
the
format
where
we're
all
sitting
in
chairs
and
staring
at
someone
in
the
front
of
the
rim,
I
would
suggest
that
we
consider
having
this
session
in
the
lounge
with
a
bunch
of
tables
and
breakouts
around
topics
where
smaller
groups
of
us
can
talk
about
the
smaller
topics
that
we're
more
interested.
In
so.
A
Something
like
an
open
space
type
of
activity
that
would
be
really
interesting
and,
of
course,
I
immediately
jump
to
the
logistics
challenges
of
that.
But
that's
a
very
interesting
idea:
I
mean
we
currently
have
a
lounge.
This
time
we
have
a
lounge
that
might
accommodate
that,
but
we'd
have
to
think
about
it.
A
So
let
me
do
it
just
a
general
poll
of
the
room,
then
of
when
we
were
doing
tutorials
people
were
complaining
that
some
of
them
were
that
they,
some
of
them
needed
to
be
more
hands-on
and
that
people
just
didn't
want
to
sit
and
listen
to
a
presentation
for
an
hour
in
the
middle
of
the
week.
So
how
many
would
prefer?
A
P
Topics
that
require
an
hour-
and
it's
okay
for
us
to
do
that,
but
I
really
like
the
idea
for
the
working
good
chairs
to
be
able
to
have
conversations
that
are
more
structured
in
the
working
group
to
be
R
nights,
but
but
not
classroom,
style.
I.
Think
that
you
know
I
think
what
Robert
was
talking
about
was
somewhere
in
the
middle
and
I.
Think
that's
a
good
default.
If
you
don't
have
something.
That's
you
know
like
tutorial
material
I,.
N
My
comment
dovetails
with
what
Spencer
just
said:
we
don't
have,
because
we
pick
a
topic
for
the
day
doesn't
mean
it
has
to
be
a
lecture
and
we've
had
some
of
the
topic
for
the
day.
Things
in
the
past
have
been
more
interactive,
with
sort
of
a
brief
introduction,
and
then
let's
talk
about
it
and
that
that
really
is
the
kind
I
like
best
and
I
like
Roberts
idea,
but
I
would
be
loath
to
tell
everybody
they
have
to
leave
the
lounge,
because
the
working
group
chairs
are
coming
in
I.
A
O
O
Could
we
get
people
to
come
talk
about
kinds
of
tutorials,
in
particular
tutorials
that
aren't
about
tools?
It's
obvious
to
me,
just
because
of
where
I
spend
a
lot
of
my
volunteer
time.
That
having
tutorials
around
tools
is
something
that,
when
a
new
tool
comes
around
a
dead
obvious
thing
to
do
are
their
tutorials
that
we
know
that
we
can
run
on
things
that
aren't
tools.
It
would
be
useful,
I.
N
Got
a
topic
maybe
having
one
be
a
quick
introduction
from
a
few
chairs
of
things
that
they've
done
in
their
working
groups
to
manage
their
working
groups.
That
they've
found
to
be
particularly
effective
and
then
turn
that
into
a
general
discussion
among
the
chairs
of
what
sorts
of
problems
I
have
with
my
working
group.
How
I've
solved
them.
What's
worked
in
what
hasn't
general
sort
of
working
group
management
session.
N
O
I'll
add
to
the
list
that
I
asked
about
the
thing
to
thing.
Research
group
in
Chicago
tried
a
set
a
breakout
session.
This
was
slowly
inspired
the
suggestion
that
I
made
about
how
we
might
approach
doing
doing
this
session.
I
wonder
if
having
somebody
from
thing
to
thing,
rgp
run
a
description
on
how
to
do
one
of
these
breakout
style
sessions.
R
Braun
gondwana
s
a
new
chair
and
person
new
to
the
ITF.
My
needs
are
probably
quite
different
to
someone
like
Barry
who's,
been
here
for
quite
a
lot
longer
just
to
to
pick
on
you
Barry,
with
your
additional
things
yeah
for
me,
certainly
understanding
more
about
being
a
chair
and
understanding
more
about
the
process
is
something
that's
really
quite
valuable.
I
wonder
whether
everyone
in
the
room
has
the
same
needs
or
whether
it's
worth
having
different
focuses
different
years
for
my
first
year,
obviously
or
second
year.
It's
all
quite
new
I
think.
A
There
is
a
couple
of
different
categories:
I
think
there's
the
new
chairs
that
are
trying
to
glean
all
the
information
they
can
about
running
a
working
group,
I
think
there's
also,
you
know,
reminders
and
you
know
refreshers
for
existing
chairs
things
about
processes
that
they
might
have
gotten
a
little
bit
slack
about
or
that
they
might
never
have
actually
paid
attention
to,
and
then
the
the
I
think.
The
third
thing
is,
though,
that
what
Barry's
talking
about
the
you
know
the
sharing,
how
you
deal
with
various
issues?
A
N
On
Robert,
how
many
of
you
as
chairs,
have
tried
running
your
working
group
sessions,
at
least
sometimes
as
a
multiple
breakouts,
where
people
already
did
our
ari
is
the
only
one
it
seems
so
up.
We
have
a
couple.
Yeah
I
think
it
would
be
interesting
to
have
a
session
discussing
that
and
seeing
if
that
would
work
for
more
working
group
sessions,
rather
than
our
usual
model
of
somebody
up
at
the
front
of
the
room.
Reading
slides.
S
Bernie
volts
as
one
possible
suggestion
for
a
topic
it
might
be
to
ask
the
iesg
you
know:
do
they
have
something
that
they
want
to
talk
to
the
working
group
chairs
about
to
help
ease
their
process
or
things
that
they're
seeing
on
a
regular
basis?
That
would
be
beneficial
for
us
to
be
aware
of
in
our
review
and
in
our
work.
S
You
know
to
advance
documents
you
know,
so
that
would
be
an
opportunity
for
the
ISP
occasionally
to
come
in
and
talk
to
the
working
group
chairs
about
issues
that
they're
seeing
or
concerns
they
might
have
or
areas
that
they're.
You
know
going
to
focus
a
little
bit
more
on
in
terms
of
when
they
do
their
their
reviews
and
documents.
T
Or
acara,
and
so
yeah,
we
had
that
you
Gago
thinking
our
two
breakout
sessions
and
just
wanted
to
share
some
experience
on
that.
So
I
think
a
lot
of
parts
been
fund
very
useful.
It's
very
different
style.
We
usually
run
very
loyal
discussions,
etc.
Some
things
you
really
need
the
rescued
facilitators
with
no
takers,
because
those
are
always,
of
course,
it's
hard
to
come
by,
but
and
also
the
logistics
of
the
room.
T
So
you
need
to
be
people
to
have
close
enough
to
each
other,
but
all
in
all
those
very
good
experience
and
we're
planning
to
take
one
of
those
later
on.
You
want
to
try
it.
It
depends,
of
course,
what
kind
of
discusses
you're
having,
but
maybe
for
the
for
this
kind
of
discuss.
What
we
having
here
definitely
worth
trying,
and
if
people
want
to
discuss
me
more
details
of
some
of
our
experiences,
we
can
have
a
break
on
that
someday
thanks.
U
Rich
sauce,
I
think
one
thing
that
we
should
make
explicit
in
the
planning
is
that
we
we
want
to
grow
them
the
leadership
pipeline,
so
that
people
like
Barry,
you
should
probably
be
bored
almost
at
every
one
of
these
lunches
and
happen
and
and
meet
half
of
them.
You
know,
and
other
people
like
find
something
useful
out
of
every
single
one
and
that
we
should
not
feed.
We
should
definitely
have
deliberate
repetition
because.
V
So
hi
Natasha
rainy
and
so
just
a
second,
the
new
chair,
section,
I,
don't
know
if
it
should
be
the
whole
the
whole
the
whole
time,
but
at
least
a
bit
for
newbies
would
be
really
great,
like
I
chair
two
groups,
but
I
could
still
do
in
some
of
that
that
little
bit
so
yeah.
Some
more
of
that
would
be
fantastic.
V
W
Can
I
insert
myself
yeah
we
used
to
have
on
the
Sunday
after
and
the
tutorials
anymore
overall,
a
tutorial
session
used
to
have
sessions
on
how
to
run
a
working
group
and
now
how
to
be
more
efficient
working
group
chair
things
like
that,
more
procedural
experience
exchange
and
tutorials.
We
haven't
done
that
in
a
while,
because
it
was
kind
of
replaced
by
this.
But
would
this
be
something
that
we
should
consider
doing
again
as
a
tutorial
on
Sunday
afternoon?
Maybe
a
bit
more
structurally
than
having
discussions
here.
M
It's
a
plus
one
from
me:
I,
don't
think
it
has
to
be
sorry,
Rick,
Taylor
I,
don't
think
it
has
to
be
every
every
IETF,
because
okay
I
can
take
over
as
a
working
group.
Chair
survive
one
or
two
meetings,
leaning
on
my
co-chair
and
then
maybe
one
in
three
would
seem
fairly
viable
I.
Imagine
those
metrics
on
how
many
new
chairs
have
come
in
and
sort
of
try
and
catch
that
wave
every
soft
and
would
be
worthwhile
so.
A
W
A
X
Sunday
working
group
chair
tutorial,
I
I,
remember
going
to
my
first
one
and
I
thought
it
was
just
a
really
great
up
and
the
best
part
was
my
co-chair.
Who've
been
doing
it
for
about.
Seven
years,
came
with
me
and
having
some
actual
chairs
there,
who
you
could
interact
with
and
ask
questions
of
and
get
down
into,
questions
details
if
you
haven't
especially
haven't
want
to
work
running
working
group.
Yet
it
was
valuable
and
I
think
in
the
past,
when
we
ran
these,
we
opened
it
up
to
perspective
working
groups.
Yes,.
X
We
would
absolutely
need
to
do
that
this
time,
just
to
get
enough
numbers
to
do
that
and
I
think
we
want
to
encourage
if
we
go
this
way.
We
want
to
encourage
some
number
of
existing
working
group
chairs
to
go
and
then
go
right
from
that
three
o'clock
to
four
o'clock
session
right
to
the
newcomers
or
something
like
that:
I
think
that
would
work.
Okay,.
H
Rosen
I'm
gonna
change
the
subject,
so
oh
it's
fun,
so
I'm
gonna
riff
a
little
bit
on
this.
This
idea
of
sessions
that
are
breakout
and
suggest
that
a
good
subject
for
this
thing
would
be
an
interactive
brainstorming
session
on
alternate
ways
to
run
a
meeting
so
that
we
would
surface
ideas
like
that,
like
the
breakout
session.
But
there
might
be
many
other
ideas
that
we
could
do,
and
one
thing
I
would
add
to
that.
Is
there
isn't
any
reason
it
has
to
take
the
whole
slot
right?
H
A
D
Niels
H
RPC
I
have
a
problem
for
which
I
do
not
have
a
solution,
and
that
is
that
the
hackathon
is
growing
at
a
frightening
pace,
which
is
which
is,
which
is
a
great
thing,
but
it
coincides
with
our
newcomers
work
and
when
Charles
asked
at
the
hackathon
how
many
people
attack
us
on
worse,
first-time
IET
efforts?
It
was
a
huge
number
of
hands
getting
up
going
up.
So
that
means
that
we're
having
the
same
target
group,
which
is
bad,
so
we
might
consider
doing
some
stuff,
maybe
other
times
during
the
week.
D
O
Robert
sparks
while
people
are
absorbing
that
I've
had
the
idea
a
few
times
this
week,
I've
been
talking
to
a
few
folks
about
it.
I
am
increasingly
of
the
opinion
that
what
is
happening
at
the
hackathon
is
at
least
as
if
not
more
important
than
what
is
happening
in
many
of
the
working
group
sessions.
O
O
O
We
haven't
had
anyone
yet
come
to
the
mic
to
talk
about
while
I'm
working
in
my
working
group-
and
here
is
hard
thing-
X-
that
I'm
having
to
to
deal
with
I'll
pony
up
an
example,
hard
thing
X
that
I'm
just
pulling
out
of
a
hat
I.
Don't
have
this
problem
right
now,
but
sometimes
you
have
to
replace
working
group
document
editors
and
the
current
editors
don't
want
to
be
replaced.
O
A
O
A
M
Taylor
again
can
I
just
say
a
plus
one
for
the
current
format.
I
actually
quite
liked
it.
If
you
look
at
what
we're
doing
now,
we've
had
a
couple
of
presentations
on
you
know,
quick
to
the
point
presentations
about
a
couple
of
things
which
are
relevant.
You
know
the
website
is
changing
and
RFC
formats
changing
its
kind
of
stuff.
We
need
to
know
as
chairs
and
then
we've
got
a
good
open
mic,
a
lot
of
good
ideas,
we're
discussing
how
things
can
change
over
time.
M
Y
Y
Then
what
I
actually
came
to
the
mic
for
was
talking
about
Sunday
tutorials
for
the
chairs
or
potential
new
chairs,
or
that
sort
of
thing-
and
this
is
I-
think
Barry
is
the
one
who
told
me
the
second
hand
that
we
did
one
of
those
not
too
long
ago
a
couple
years
ago.
Something
like
that,
and
there
was
a
several.
Y
So
if
that
sort
of
thing
could
be,
he
announced
well
in
advance
when
we
plan
to
do
it,
perhaps
with
some
outreach
to
specifically
targeted
people.
That
would
probably
be
helpful.
On
the
other
hand,
the
potential
conflicts
with
weekend
time
might
suggest.
We
do
it
some
other
time
in
the
week
anyway,
right.
A
N
Know
what
Ben
was
talking
about
was
specifically
the
tutorial
I
did
on
separating
document
shepherding
and
I
think
it
might
have
been
the
last
Prague
meeting,
but
yeah
I
asked
people
in
the
room.
How
many
of
you
are
or
will
be
document
shepherds
and
no
one
raised
their
hands.
So
I
don't
know
who
was
in
there
and
why
and
they
were,
they
were
engaged
and
interested,
but
they
weren't
the
people.
I
was
hoping
to
get
in
there.
T
A
few
comments
are
first
on
the
combining
breakouts
and
and
restyle.
That's
that
usually
works
exactly
well.
Usually,
if
you
want
to
have
breakouts,
you
want
to
start
with
an
oriental
dinner
first
to
set
the
stage
and,
in
the
end,
to
wrap
up
across
all
the
different
breakout
so
that
it
makes
a
lot
of
sense.
They
don't
the
comment
of
getting
best
practices.
How
to
handle
a
hard
situation,
sounds
very
good.
I
think
one
common
theme
across
many
working
groups
how
to
get
stuff
working
faster
because
of
various
reasons.
You
know
kind
of
okay.
T
If
this
then
do
that
and
here's
a
few
ways
to
do
that
and
then
on
the
time
allocations
that
weekend
before
the
IETF
is
getting
extremely
crowded,
I
don't
have
solution
for
that,
except
for
maybe
from
Singapore
things
in
our
teas
can
start
on
Friday
before
the
idea.
Sorry
about
that,
but
yeah
maybe
want
to
work
on
some
guidelines
on
like
how
do
we
actually
make
the
weekend
also
work
better.
Okay,.
P
Mr.
Dawkins,
so
we
probably
need
a
section
of
this
meeting
where
people
can
stand
up
and
say:
I
agree
with
Robert
sparks,
but
he
he
may.
He
may
have
been
thinking
this
all
by
himself,
but
he
talked
about.
He
talked
about
the
the
lounge
thing
and
we've
talked
about
the
hard
problem
thing
and
thinking
that
the
breaking
lounge
with
breakouts
I
shouldn't
space
on
a
topic
that
that
were
those
two
things
would
work
together.
Really
well
so
I
mean
like
the
is
G.
P
As
we
said,
the
is
G
is
thinking
about
this,
so
we're
doing
experiments
almost
every
IETF
cycle,
if
you're
paying
attention.
So
this
is
something
that
matters
a
lot
to
us
and
we
really
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
listen
to
other
people
who
have
what
twenty
times
as
many
brain
cells
as
we
do
just
just
mathematically,
because
coming
up
with
things
will
work
for
the
community.
Is
it's
a
hard
problem
all.
Q
Charles
Cole
Robert
also
mentioned
about
the
the
hackathon
and
and
thoughts
about
that,
and
you
know
when
we
first
brought
that
it
was.
It
was
certainly
an
experiment
right
and
just
giving
some
leeway
to
do
it
now.
People
are
getting
used
to
it,
but
it
is
growing
and
now
they
just
eat
up
people's
time,
but
it
also
costs
more
to
run
it
so
just
the
feed
people.
So
it
is
something
that
I'm
glad
you
know.
Robert
mentioned
it
and
that
people
will
start
thinking
about
it.
I've
also
worked
with
the
Secretariat
of
bid.
Q
Q
They
could
ask
for
space
where
their
team
could
work
on
coding
stuff,
that's
not
to
be
a
hackathon,
but
really
not
so
much
about
this
about
getting
the
space
but
more
about
getting
people's
calendars
and
their
times
synced
up
just
to
see
if
that
was
helpful
and
if
there
was
demand
for
it.
So
that
is
some
type
of
experiment
we're
thinking
of
doing.
If
you
have
thoughts
about
it,
come
see
me
I'm,
happy
to
hear
what
you
think
might
make
it
work
better,
so
that
you
know
when
we
do.
N
N
Okay,
most
of
you
do
know
so
then
I
guess
I
just
that
they're
gonna
try
it
again.
There
were.
There
are
none
that
way
this
time,
because
there
weren't
enough
requests
but
they're
going
to
try
it
again
in
Singapore,
really
think
about
whether
you're
working
group
could
benefit
from
that
kind
of
layout
to
generate
more
discussion
and
less
presentation.
All.
P
Did
not
get
loads
of
comments
from
people
from
participants
about
the
u-shaped
experiment
last
time
since
we're
thinking
about
doing
that
fixing
the
stuff
we
heard
about
last
time
if
there
was
stuff
that
was
broken
last
time
that
you
thought
about,
but
haven't
said
or
even
asked
your
working
groups
if
they
were
in
one
of
those
rooms.
Please
tell
us
because
we
would
like
to
be
smarter
rather
than
dumber
I'm.
Z
D
I'd
like
to
also
ask
advice
from
other
working
group
chairs
on
scheduling
conflicts
and
when
to
ask
for
rescheduling
and
what
is
the
best
approach
for
that
so
now
we're
Friday
morning
against
quick,
it's
gonna
be
fun,
but
so
what?
Where
and
how
is?
Should
you
be
using
the
rescheduling
and
doing
the
conflicts
that
probably
people
have
some
advice
and
guidance
on
that?
D
Q
N
A
All
right,
so
we
have
four
minutes
left.
This
has
been
a
very
helpful
conversation.
I
will
post
a
note
to
the
working
group
chairs
mailing
list,
like
I,
said:
I've
set
up
a
wiki
page,
where
I'm
going
to
try
and
curate
ideas
for
sessions
going
forward
and
any
other
comments
that
you
have
and
so
that
we
can
also
on
that
same
page
is
a
list
of
tutorials.
We
had
a
tutorial
this
time.
Generally,
we
have
to
talk.
We
have
obviously
the
newcomers
tutorial.
A
We
have
tutorials
that
are
about
IETF
process
and
tools,
and
we
have
ones
that
are
about.
You
know
new
technologies
that
are
in
the
IETF,
like
the
quick
one.
We
had
last
time
DNS
privacy
and
we
also
have
tutorials
about
technology,
that's
coming
from
outside
of
the
IETF,
and
this
time
we
had
a
tutorial
that
was
requested
by
a
group
of
people
that
wanted
to
get
better
exposure
to
something
that
they
want
to
bring
into
the
IETF.
And
that
was
the
t
p--
tutorial
and
we
obviously
have
limited.
A
You
know
a
limited
number
of
resources
and
slots
that
we
can
put
tutorials
in,
but
any
thoughts
about.
I,
don't
want
to
think
in
tutorials,
just
in
terms
of
process
and
tools
and
and
that
kind
of
thing
I
think
we
also
have
an
opportunity
to
to
introduce
new
technologies
or
to
better
socialize
technologies
that
were
or
technical
concepts
that
we're
working
on
ourselves.
So
I
strongly
encourage
people
to
either
mail.
The
working
group
chairs
mailing
list
or
to
contribute
to
the
wiki
and
the
dialogue
will
continue,
we'll
see
what
we'll
do
next
time.