Internet Engineering Task Force 99, 19 Jul 2017

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From YouTube: IETF99-PLENARY-20170719-1710

Description

PLENARY meeting session at IETF99
2017/07/19 1710

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/99/proceedings/

A

Set it off and there's a new net no.12 for this meeting, so we had a new RFC published and that's 81-79, so that's like updated. So please take a look, and you know the expected to like memorize all of this right now, but please take a look at our C's to understand what your requirements are.

A

So welcome to beautiful Prague I just want to take a few minutes to batch the agenda. First of all, as you all notice, I'm not Alyssa, so alyssa is having a baby right now, so I'm standing in for her from the ASG and so I just want to pose the agenda is the same agenda posted on the website just want to bash it like in case anybody wanted to add anything.

A

So if you had a chance to look if you line up at the mic, if you have any questions with the agenda.

A

Going once twice gone, thank you, okay. So first of all, I would like to thank our hosts, its Comcast NBC, Universal and Czech Nick. So I would like to give them a few minutes to come and talk about it and I'll, just like segue onto them. So first Andre or Glenn.

B

So I'm gonna attempt to give the shortest host speech ever I simply wanna say. Thank you very much to the ITF for Alana's to be part of your world. You guys do great work. You work really hard. We've got 20 years of history, producing what makes the internet work and we're very happy to be able to support the ITF through beginner hosts and that's it.

A

And I can tell you that Andres thing is not the shortest speech of the penury.

C

Thank you very much, I, don't think I can beat his speech. You know it was amazing, but as usual I don't want to tell something about her great company. We are and I prepared something again silly about chicks, just to entertain you for a minute. So I have a rich short note about the language, because you know you are here for the first time some of you traveling with ietf, and you will be here in the next two years.

C

So maybe you considered, maybe that if you are here so often, you should learn some of the some of the language here. The local language and- and this short presentation is to discourage you doing that really concentrate on infinite standards. It's much much more useful for the human race, so Czech language according to u.s. foreign service institute. This is in the rank of the second most difficult languages in the world to learn which I really doubt you know, because I grew up in the Czech Republic I.

C

You know my parents are chicks, so I learnt quite a lot and then I had to spend eight years in elementary school. Just to really drill the chick grammar I'm, still not very good in that, so it's really very complicated language. Even for us and I'm still, you know trying to find some some new things of other language and I still need to ask some people how something is written in in the proper shape. Why is there? Actually it's? It's quite interesting story.

C

Czech language is not really natural language. Nobody in chicken gun it used to be dominant language, but still the result of German many many parts of this country's poor, German 400 for some centuries actually- and at one point it was it wasn't at the end of the war in the middle of cylinder, 17th century, we almost very important battle, which was very close here in pact, and the chick kingdom was attached to Austrian Empire and an Austrian system.

C

I know that those without King James they speak German actually, and so they wanted to german eyes us and they were very successful in that and in the sort of end of the 18th century. Almost nobody spoke check, but ever a group of scientists who decided to kind of revive this. This strange language and because nobody really spent proper check the time so they they decided to take that as a basis of a language of bible.

C

It was the bible was 250 years all the time, and you probably know that those holly books aren't definitely not written with the most recent most modern language. So basically they took us a basis for the for the language as something that was three hundred years old, and you know in those three hundred years old many languages were simplified. So that's why this grammar is really horrible, very old, and you can maybe phrase it that the language kept its ancient beauty.

C

Of course, not all words are in bibles, so many words were created after that, either from other Slavic languages. So really they are really artificial. So that's why this language is really complicated. Some critic says that this language has no rules that we use. You know words without vowels, that we we don't use those things. That's actually not true. We have five basic vowels.

C

And short in one phone and and two double house over now, but still, if you look at some of the you know words in in Czech, you will see that they are not nothing from that group. That's because we a little bit extended the definition of vowels and we edit two of them.

C

You know some people use it as a constant, not like wolves but consonants, but really proper laws are an L and law in Czech language and with those vowels you can create beautiful sentences like, for example. This this sentence is not particularly useful honestly, but it's beautiful in proto check is stretch breasts. Chris, Kirk, I undo underline the walls you can. You can train it for the next meeting and and we can have some contests- you know who's, you know pronounce it better with interesting greetings. I. This is a break. This is informal greeting.

C

You can tell the time the friends it's for greeting and farewell, and this is particularly interesting. It's our way and I took that you know a quote from Wikipedia, so that might be. It must be true. It's a signal. Word used to go to a ship or boat. If you look at the map of this country,.

C

It's a landlocked country right. All the rivers go outside the country. We are kind of the roof. They did. They go to different seas, so we are kind of roof from the water perspective, so they are known like big rivers. Nothing like that, and we choose this signalling words to say hello to you, which is really required made amazing. So God knows why we I don't know another greeting which is very popular, is master and it's a short version of master and our admin develops for the success of national theater.

C

So whenever you say you, you know, you wish a good luck to some very special building. You could see it actually at the Essbase party, it was behind the charles bridge. Look like this: it's a beautiful building, but if you ask any common check, nobody thinks about the National Theatre I'll, just tell you yeah, that's the you know over subsidized institution within a building with below the new roof. You know and it's they do have any really strange feeling towards that. But every time they agreed friends they they.

C

You know which success this institutions- and this is my favorite sentence- you can see it when, for example, kid goes to school. Some, you know important important exam and the model does in long bus, which basically means break your neck. You know she really wishes him to be killed, which is kind of veer. I, think you have a saying in English break a leg right so, but there are a little bit more violent.

C

And last last thing, which is funny: you can interest, really matters in the car in this country. We are I, think second in the world in car production per capita. So everything what's good for God interest is good for Czech Republic, the most, but more turbulent is Checotah. It's a lot brand. Every each third card is Dakota in this country and really chicks love it. You know they know how to fix it out. You know everything, so you would expect that if this don't, this is the most successful car brain here that it has.

C

The watch program must have some good meaning right, something very positive and to translate this well. It's not easy, actually, there's a lot of meanings in English, but honestly none of them is positive.

C

So if you, the taxi driver, will take you in oscoda car, please don't forget that it might mean damage harm injury based of something and something like that. So this is all our brain try to image this in your country, and it was really everything I want you to tell you so now. I hope you understand that Czech language and the way we work with the Czech language is really complicated. Honestly English is fine here and again. Thank you for coming. It's your first time in Prague and I know we will return in two years.

A

So, thank you very much to our hosts and as a sign of our appreciation now I'd like to present them a black.

A

So I want to provide a shot update from the iesg, so there's also a long a bit that I don't want to do here for obvious reasons, and that's like loaded on the preceding side, and it's also linked from our webpages. So take a look at it, starting off I'll start off with the participant statistics, so the numbers are like kind of like you know, ramping up like very slowly till the meeting, and now we got like a pretty good ramp up in the last few days. So this is current until this morning.

A

Right so, and so we crossed 1200 attendees so about like 200 of them are like first-time attendees, and so that's like very good. So we are attracting a lot of new people and so ninety six as a comparison in Berlin, had 14 32. So it's like a smaller number, but we are still in good shape. So, and so we have people from 61 countries attending this meeting, and the breakup is here so I. Don't think you can actually see the countries here, but they're. Actually, the continents are they're right next to the percentages.

A

So if you take a look at your laptops and look at them or look at it after you're going to see it, and so we updated some RFC's like thats related to process, so we updated the I on a consideration. So this is something that's very important to all of us because, like whenever we want an allocation from Ayana. We have to some policies and those have been updated and that's like VCB 26, so you can take a look at it and we also updated the intellectual property rights and idea of technology.

A

So this something I showed you in the North world. So that's like RFC 81 79. So that's like BCP 79 as well, and we also had this like long-standing thing like whether uppercase must is the same as a lowercase must or not, and everything. So we be arguing this to death or a while. So we have that's now settled so take a look at our C 8174 and you're okay and we're also starting this initiated. Like it's been going on for a bit like you know, Leslie's been driving it, and so this is a $2.00.

A

So this is like how do we change the administrative side of the idea to figure out like what's the current funding right here from how you can organize yourself? And there was a discussion session yesterday and you can actually join the mailing list and to figure out like what's happening out there and and so some people I mean always saying right, like the ITF website, looks like it's from 1980s or 90s like depending on how charitable you are. So this mean, like some work, going on to revamp it to bring it to this century.

A

So I don't know if it's like current, but it's at least in this century. So this like a better left side up and you can go check it out right now. It's like you, have your laptop's open. What, if you do and take a look at it, and and we really want your feedback, so see what what you think and like what works for you, what doesn't work for you? So that's going to help like Ross who's, driving this as a manager to like make the site better for us.

A

You can provide comments using github using like issues over there or like if you want the old-fashioned way, send an email to people, and these are the things I talked about. So there's like a whole bunch of things on the website and just go. Take a look at them and send us a note whenever you have any questions or you bring it up at the open mic. If you do so, I just want to special call-out for running code of the ATF, so we are like based on rough consensus, running code.

A

So there's like bunch of things. We do here, that's running code and so I just want to do a special color to dance just to give them the recognition they deserve. So the one of them is the hackathon. So this hackathon like was one of the biggest hackathons ever so, if not the biggest hackathon ever so we almost had like 200 people like and like almost 20 projects, and it was like fantastic, so I had go there as a judge and it like the quality of stuff that is done.

A

There was phenomenal, like what people can do in two days if they sit together and think so we had like a lot of work and it's very difficult to judge they're all like very high quality things. I, don't want you to read them right now likely than later, but like we had some awards, so some of them are like serious Awards and some of them are like just like something that piqued our interest like so could be like a university project or like a new name and stuff like that.

A

So some of them are like you know, semi, that's, let's call it like pulling the leg right like, but that's something we want Anchorage. So we don't want to have like a too serious feel into this right, but it's like really serious work and- and some of these projects are going to have demos at the bits and bytes tomorrow. So like please, drop in and see what they've done and the other thing is the code sprint, and this is like people doing code for us.

A

So if you go to like the data tracker like or like tools stars, this is like volunteers to spend the time doing like work for us so like whenever something goes wrong. They're always there. Whenever we need a new functionality, they are always there. They make all our life easier. So I like to thank them, I saw so thanks to all the people who attended the hackathon and the code, strength.

A

Yeah I had this fantastic seven-hour meeting that day, Thank You us Ted before you go I just want to do like one small update.

A

So I just want to color this, like one thing, so those is mail sent to the IETF mailing list, and this is about like incremental deployment of ipv6 right so like how do we get to like run with v6 and there's like a draft? That's out there, and the proponents had proposed an experiment for this meeting, but it kind of came in a bit late for that to happen. But we are considering like doing an experiment for Singapore.

A

So like expect like a bit more details on it and if you want to help people test this, like you, can join the IETF nat64 SSID here, either now or like sometime in the future, prefer sometime in the future, because the plenary usually like has like bad Wi-Fi and don't think it's because of ipv6. So do it's sometime tomorrow or day after so we can get some numbers and we can see some bugs.

A

So now, after dead thanks.

D

Howdy, this is just a preview of things you might want to talk to us about at the open mic. As you notice, the ID report, which we make before each ITF meeting is online a couple of items from it. There are a couple of things going on with the RFC editor. The independent series editor Neville Bromley, is stepping down a next year and so there's an ongoing search for a new independent series editor to serve as successor.

D

If you have comments on that, there's a mailing list you can reach out to we're also in the process of developing the statement of work for the RFC series editor. That statement of work is also out for community comment. Please send comments to the invisible address on your screen or the one noted in the actual IAB report. I also wanted to call out that the call for papers on the workshop and internet naming systems has been updated with new dates.

D

A number of people commented to us that the original drapes conflicted with a workshop being held in Berlin, as well as with DNS or AARC, so those have changed now to October, 10th and 11th. The other is kind of the regular work of the IAB appointments to the CTA CCG and our zerk some RFC's. There will be a prize for anybody who can take the titles of each of these for our seas and turn them into a limerick in time for the IAB open.

D

Mike a few minutes like we also made a statement on special use names, actually, just at the close of the last meeting and a couple of liaisons to external bodies, one to I can to talk about it's IDN implementation, guideline and another to the Unicode consortium. To talk about one of their technical represent technical committee recommendations.

D

Leslie before I said done. I want to to make two personal thank-yous, one on behalf of Elissa. She invited jörg Eric and Leonel to come and talk about 3gpp and 5g and on Tuesday at lunch they did a great job of that. I would like to express our joint thanks for that and one a very personal one to Daniel Rosen of the host team, as well as to Stephanie and Alexa, as folks may or may not know.

D

One of our eighty members, Lee Howard, was stricken earlier today with an illness and is in hospital preparing for an appendicitis operation and that team has been taking great care of him and his son will and we really really appreciate their efforts on his behalf. Thank You.

A

E

So Laurie will recognize this light because I just don't from last idea, but since I'm up here anyway, I thought I would mention on behalf of the Ombuds team and the ice ice, our leadership in general that we have some documents that have been been through some consensus and some processes. The bid to consensus for a code of conduct for professional behavior at the idea, an anti-harassment policy to support everybody's civil behavior towards each other, a BCP, RFC, seven, seven, seven, six and I lived a CLE.

E

Fourth and Pete Resnick are your Ombuds team and if you do have issues, please feel free to talk to us. You can find us easily because we have these very vehement neon green tags on our and they go really well with the orange this time. So that's that.

E

Okay, so, um and also the IRT F, chair, change, hats and very quick update just a couple of minutes. I want to thank our hosts and Prague and I suppose summertime, because I'm not sure when it last happened, but every single IRT F research group is meeting at this ITF.

E

So that is a great turnout of research and and those news we had a new proposed research that has started out research group. The idea the IRT F's process is to give proposed research groups a year to run and see if they're going to try to pan out and be useful and so path. Aware. Networking research group met this earlier in the afternoon. The minutes, if you look at the minutes or the materials you'll, see a history of this topic at the IETF.

E

But this is the first time we've tackled it in the IRT F, and it may be that this will be its time and the by the way. Thank you to the the nation we're in I'm big fan of the play, Rossum's Universal, robots and thought that was a good eye. Our TF picture. It's it's one of the great plays of and I'll have to take the challenge to try to breathe it in check. Okay and then a couple. Other things happen retrospectively.

E

Looking at the right, we have a a applied networking research workshop on Saturday and there were lots of really interesting papers and there and discussion- and you could just peruse all that at your leisure and coming up still tomorrow afternoon or the the next to of the a and RP awardees they're going to be great talk. So come join us tomorrow afternoon and thank you.

A

F

G

Up first, okay, I guess: I'm up; first, that's a here! Oh that works. Thank you and that's the end of my report.

G

Maybe we should start over okay, so I really complement and thank our hosts. Are our global hosts, Comcast NBC Universal fabulous job, what a great social that was and all the work that CZ nick has done so jason, glenn andres and your team's fabulous. Thank you very much. It's such a pleasure.

G

It's such a pleasure to come back to Prague and have family here waiting for us with the cz Nick. Thank you.

G

I want to recognize. The Hilton has sponsor for the Welcome Reception yeah they're part of our multi-year agreement with Hilton is that the sponsor they're welcome receptions when we have a meeting at Hilton and thank you very much. Michael is probably not here general manager, but it was well done. Gold Sponsor for this meeting is Akamai. They were also the gold sponsor for Russia cago connectivity is provided by t-mobile and dial Telecom, and thank you bits and bytes. Tomorrow.

G

Night is a tomorrow night via tomorrow, night and fifth-generation a10, comcast, Huawei, cz, Nick and Marvel, and so you don't want to miss that sponsorships again so mm this meeting. Attendance.

F

G

Down about 150 below forecast sponsorships are down 200 thousand below forecast, and so the trend isn't good over the last year year and a half now and something as I go look into preparing the 2018 budget, the things that I have to consider going forward. So it's gonna, be rather tough, I think, but we have a new sponsorship. Point-Of-Contact Joe, ably Joey you here you, you you're, not here Joe, probably I'm, sure he's talking to a future host and actually a global host I hope. Anyway. This is how you can reach Joe.

G

There are fabulous opportunities available for a Singapore. The Welcome Reception is still available. We have there's only one platinum sponsor for Singapore and that's available. We have a gold sponsor, but this one more left. So, if you're interested please get in touch with Joe I, also like to think that code sprinters.

G

These are folks who, every time we have a meeting they're there to prepare the community useful tools and and Henrik and Robert and Russ and and all those folks, thanks left for your work here- are the NOC team volunteers led by Jim Martin for the Vols, and he could see about 12 folks, their line, speed those names, Pryor, look familiar and I cursed, meet echo I, remove dissipation services, folks great job and thanks an awful lot for what you've done.

G

Thursday we have a Tech Talk. This is the typical host Tech, Talk and and I think it's been mentioned a little bit, maybe already Glenn Dean is going to host this. It's going to be the moderator and we have from Drexel and Cisco and BBC three panelists. So this is I think this is an interesting topic at some point in time. We're going to reach a tipping point and cable, not cable, cable, television.

G

It's going to shift I, think my view of the world is just streaming over the Internet and that's going to upset an awful lot of things. I think this is. This is Liz Lee's.

H

um Yes, so we have a detailed report as well and I would urge you to go and actually read it in detail. I do want to go over a few highlights here, just make sure, to the extent possible everyone's aware of things, so we have an outgoing Oakland IOC member who will be saying beyond the end of this meeting, but Ray has told us that he is retiring. The fact of October 31st 2017 and the IOC is certainly very appreciative of Ray's efforts.

H

Ray's, you probably already know, was our first IAD, and so we will look forward to doing something a little more formal in Singapore when we have when Ray has actually retired and in so on and so forth, and so naturally, we are looking for an interim IAD I, say naturally, because her BC p101, we have formed a committee to to actually go look for a person to replace ray to succeed, ray that won't be a replacement.

H

We're looking for an interim person specifically because the I acid, to find our work that is going on, may change the shape of what the job requirements actually are. So we want somebody who can carry us through the next 12 to 18 months, but we beyond that, we will see what we need. So at any rate the you can find the job description and the requirements at that link.

H

If you know anyone who would be a reasonably good fit, do please encourage them to apply we'd like to have a large body of candidates to select from I want them to highlight. The registration for IAT f-100 will open on Friday at 1530 c EST. If you're not sure what 1530 c EST is. There is a helpful link to time and date.

H

Thank you, Ray, but editing rated announcement will be made at that time so that you can go ahead and be so enthusiastic with your experience here at this meeting, you'll go ahead and register for ITF. 100 meetings were to have them I think we had started this discussion back in at IETF 98, but as hopefully, by now you all know. We have decided to move next summer's meeting next month from northern North hemisphere, summers meeting from San Francisco to Montreal, and we have moved it one week earlier.

H

I love the details of what went into that thinking and why it's one week earlier are in the information in the announcement. So please do read that, and certainly, if you have any questions, the IOC will be up here a little bit later for all the mic and that's it. Thank you.

I

F

Hello, my name is Karl rajma and chair of ITF trust I'm, going to give a quick update about the trust. So, as most of you know, Trust is basically a vault keeping ITF property safe. If you need to read more, please check the website contrast seas or the nine IOC members.

F

This is by definition, I think from BCP 101 we have one outgoing trustee array is leaving us at 31st of October is the last of original trustees who have continuously served on the trust and I would really like to thank him because I know he was instrumental in actually setting up the trust and making sure it's a very distillation. Thank you. A muttering.

F

This is basically our plate. The good thing about Trust is we want to stability, for trust from this updates is better I, know, diamond transfer update. This is a process initiated after I know transition. It was agreed that ITF trust holds the iron I appear, including enough diamond name. The process has been for mentioned multiple times. There has been a lot of communications towards both I can communities and ITF committee. It's in almost end of the process, but there are many steps to follow. Finally, after then, it's done.

F

The iron Adama name will be transferred to ITF trust. I teach at trademark, I was recently updated, I guess for ten years, and also in line with it work of IOC to trust. Administrative and accounting support now have separate contract contracts, which was requested by Isaac, so admin contract is already in place and accounting support. We start the first of September, and this is my last slide. Financials, nothing out of ordinary space. Occasional stuff trust doesn't have that it's just for basically basic basic operations, keeping trademarks and things like that, and basically that's it.

F

A

Thanks Callie Peter, can you come up.

J

So this is just a quick update on the NomCom for 2017 2018. After a little bit of fun last week, getting our members selected, we have all of the members now confirmed and seated we have ten voting members for liaison members. This time we added an ia or C liaison up your chair.

K

J

We have Lucy as the pasture and very treasured advisor, and our nominal schedule looks like this. We will be announcing the detailed schedule just a little later this month and have a car for nominations that will probably start sometime in August. We are discussing at the current time exactly what our schedule is going to look like, because we may try something different midterm steps based on the existing schedule are to call for feedback starting in October and interviews, as usual will be held at the November meeting.

J

Unless we change how we do things, we expect to finish up in December if we're lucky, otherwise, probably January's more realistic, particularly, we don't have any special cases like last year. That's it.

A

So I'd like to welcome our next host for the next meeting for the Singapore meeting. So that's Sisko, so Ben I was like here to give us a preview.

L

All right, so let me see well yang models.

L

Sorrow faster, easy all right. That being said on the end of Cisco, I want to welcome to the next idea the idea of 100 quite a number in decimal actually in binary. Well, that's interesting! Now location is Singapore. We would like to welcome you. If you remember the week start on Saturday, we got a great hackathon this week more than 20 people would like to see you again, the hackathon. That's a great adventure to do running code, so a location, Singapore I'm trying to convince you to come.

L

So yes, there will be a social, the social we'll be at the sea aquarium not running all the arguments that I have right.

L

The next one I have for you is that if it convinced yet I even have the money of the social event there I'll check is mine actually, and there is like the catch of the day. Not sure I didn't mean it aquarium we'll see, but what I checked I mean coming button to social yesterday were in order addition to have some I click drink, but that I care. But you know there are drinks over there as well.

L

Beers and wine and etc so again, I won't take much of your time, but on the other of Cisco, we're happy to hold the next ITF meeting in Singapore, so see you. There.

A

And next like, we would like to recognize somebody special, so I, don't know if it's a surprise for them. I hope it is so we didn't put the name in there, but you're gonna find out in a minute Russ and Michelle.

M

Police, would you come out.

G

So, while she's walking up I'll start talking about her, so Elyse has been for the past seven years serving the internet community first as the I can, by spreadin Triana services and as the prep, the president for public technical identifiers, which most of us refer to as the post-transition Ana.

G

So some major milestones have happened while she's been in this role, the last ip4 address block was given out to the rars launching the DNS root zone management system in managing the transition of after the NTIA contract expired, but she did a lot before going to Ana as well. She's been in the internet planning group she's was a chair and co-founder for Nanog she's been involved in the federal engineering planning group and she's been a member of the IEP.

G

So we wanted to say thank you over little gift and a little plaque. Lula plaque says Elise gerich for many years of dedicated service to the Internet community, July 2017, so we're inspired by the dedicated service for many many years appreciate the contributions you've made for so many years and we're just grateful for the smooth transition that happened. So thank you very much and we wish you the best.

G

N

Really am surprised quite touched. Thank you. I know many of you and my hair is this gray as some of yours, so this is it. This is a real honor and it's been wonderful to be part of this community I feel like I'm stepping down with a good group of folks Ray's leaving, but Lucy's told me, she's, retired, steve croccerz, uh stepping down from the ican chair and, of course, he's been a longtime I ATF, a member and I I, see so many good friends out in the audience.

N

Just thank you. It's really really thoughtful to be remembered, like this I appreciate it thanks very much.

A

So we're getting ready for the open, mikes.

A

So does anybody have questions for the IAB I? Just don't want to make them walk up for no questions. I.

A

Can try any questions for the IAB everybody happy with the architecture of the Internet.

A

Okay, hum that's getting knowledge.

A

Okay, I guess: that's a no.

A

Anybody have questions for the IOC.

A

Okay, IOC: can you please get up on stage.

H

O

H

Sorry sorry I confused myself out of order here we should introduce ourselves first, it's the point.

P

Of us being up.

H

Here so you know who we are um Tobias. Would you like to start Tobias.

Q

Ioc rebuild.

F

Your ie D Carla x bar you see Lester.

H

De Ville I was he chair.

R

Try again blueburger NomCom appointed.

F

For workers for left-wing ELISA.

S

Yes, clonidine.

O

Aisaka pointed.

H

Thank you. Please go ahead.

O

Hi so previously in summer meetings we would hear about the what, with the location about of the November meeting of the next year, so do we know we're going to meet in November of 2018 and.

H

So we let people know where we're gonna meet as we have something to announce as in when we have contract in hand, and things are sorted so I will say that we are not at a point where we have a contract in hand, and things are sorted for November of 2018 ray. Did you want to add anything.

G

Just that contracting for a meeting in Asia is complex, so it is in Asia. It is.

O

G

And yes, yes, it's in Asia, yeah.

O

Because we noticed that there was a switch between America and Europe next year, just.

G

In the time, so the Prague is 104 and 105 is what Montreal yeah.

G

K

G

We just don't know yet either.

H

All right, thank you anything else. um That's fine I will say something that that I said Suresh Suresh when he came up here, I think it's important for the groups to come up here. So you can see who we are. Apart from seeing the dots on our badge in case, you suddenly feel motivated to throw a rotten tomato or otherwise engage, but alright, thank you. Oh a crescent question approaches Randi, ready.

T

Push I J I just want to compliment the ILC on being coming much more open about the hotel thing. I remember when it used to be dead. Silence and I understand your constraint of not wanting to announce while you're still negotiating a contract, but knowing.

P

In advance and.

T

Not having these magic secrets is helpful. Thank.

U

H

We are trying to learn. Okay. Thank you very much.

R

John Ike, so you announced when ietf reg opens for Singapore. Do we know when Hotel red your points for Singapore.

G

Same time, that'll.

R

Be exciting good.

G

H

Speed of the ITF network to try to and.

G

It's scheduled at a time in which it's it's people will not be in bid. They can actually make a reservation yeah it. So it's like 10 o'clock, 11 o'clock and in Beijing for example. So if you still a chance.

H

Not seeing any motion on the floor, anybody else see any motion on the floor. I'm not missing anyone this time. Alright. Thank you very much.

A

Okay, let's leave had a point, so even if you have no questions for a week and I am E, please come up on stage.

D

Finally, your opportunity to win the Limerick contest emerges.

A

Okay, you can see in the back this culture bit: okay,.

D

Don't lead Suresh, they don't have questions. This is gonna, be very fast, so the two people who could not be with us here tonight, Lee Howard, as you heard earlier, is in the hospital and we also have our beloved Joe Hildebrand who's in the jabber room appropriate. Given his background in the development of the jabber protocol, but was not available to be with us in person ardently you carry for.

D

Young, you also missed ELISA she's, also in the jabber room. Although God knows why, because she's unclear liquids and waiting for a baby, but if those of you want to want to give a quick cheer outs to ELISA, she will hear you at the moment if you want to give a quick clap for her good luck.

O

Yup Eric not mark today's.

A

Christian Otto AV, Bryant rental, Susanne, wolf.

R

R

The mark Nottingham.

S

Normal vinegar.

E

Allison mansion headed Flanagan, rse.

D

So now that you actually see us have any of you developed questions, limericks or commentary for the IAB.

U

V

U

A bottle of red wine Limerick.

F

V

I need a lost word, so this is a channels. You know questions at the mic. That's bizarre! All these people have gone through the bar. Are they a happy and gay or drinking babe beer by the train? Or is this thing at the mic? Just a I need a rhyme word. There.

D

Well, it's it's a remarkable effort. Thank you a lot, but there was a constraint actually to win the prize that you had to work in the titles of the RFC's into it, which would you apparently missed completely, but we'll we'll work on your rhyme word and I'll ask the IV to go ahead and step down, since obviously, people are happy with us.

W

I'll go ahead and say that if anyone's got questions about the RFC format, I did a brief presentation. If the working group chairs lunch, it's recorded, you can look at it. It was great better than cats. You could see it again and again, thanks.

A

Ed there so Heather's report is also on the plenary proceeding, so you can take a look at it is gee. Can you please come up on stage.

A

Is anybody not here raise your hand, okay,.

I

Yeah so let's start a lifter hi.

A

Spencer can I set off for the introductions start with introductions.

D

Spencer Dawkins transport area director and part of the pallet of VI ESG, a.

L

Little Thunder rolling good walk those operations and management Kathleen.

M

Moriarty security, Erica.

X

Scoreless security, Debra.

E

Barone guard rowdy.

F

Chatter, dia Beecher Adam.

O

Roche art, Alex of art, suresh, krisshnan, Internet, Ben,.

Y

Campbell art Terry.

P

Madison Internet area, Warren, Kumari opps me.

Z

A cool event transporting oh.

AA

Yeah Atlas routing.

A

So any questions limericks.

V

Since you asked I now have the rhyme word? Okay, no questions at the mic. That's bizarre! Are all these people off to the bar? Are they happy and gay or a drinking beer by the tray, or are they watching this thing from afar.

A

Yeah laughs you still down in the price because you didn't use the titles yeah. Okay, so I don't know who came first like John.

U

Or Michael I'm sorry.

L

AB

Don't I'm I'm wondering how seriously the iesg believes that they or the ietf should be about remote participation? It seems to me that we've reached a bit of a juncture in which the media echo facilities, while anything could always use improvement that the Medeco facilities are good enough, that that they're not an impediment to to remote participation, as as evidence I might be on a city or talk with you.

AB

But but there are a number of things, including ongoing confusion, about whether it's better to use this technique or or typing into jabber how the jabber scribes are prioritized on a number of other issues which would ultimately go to to how serious the iesg is about enabling remote participation as as full participation in the IETF versus something that is sort of supplementary to to person. Participation will always be second class and I'd like to understand a little bit better. Where the is. She falls along that set of dimensions, Thanks.

A

May I go first.

Z

So we're discussing this a lot because it's important to ask but I think we have some agreement that also the face-to-face meetings are important say we don't think that we will reach a future very soon where we don't have any face-to-face meetings anymore, I, don't think it the notion of having it like a second-class citizen. Is it's what we are thinking, so we continuously try to improve the experience, but it's kind of also a testing face. So any feedback is very welcome.

AB

Yeah I wasn't suggesting a face to face news, should be abolished or not become primary, although I'm aware that others have suggested that, but but it seems to me we're in a stage where, if the remote participation is going to work, it's gonna require more attention from from the isg and working group chairs to to details. Like you, management, then, then has sometimes been the case in the past, at least with some working groups.

A

Yep thanks John alia next and then Kathleen.

AA

AA

Obviously, in the IHF has been investing in remote participation for quite some time and improving it, as you say to the point where it's really possible, the big red buttons I believe, are a favorite of many working group chairs. In order to add people to the list, I think that having the jabber as a backup has proved extremely useful and other circumstances and I mean continue and I'm, certainly very interested in hearing feedback on where the challenges are.

AA

We've talked about the idea of experimenting with hybrid cues, but the question is how to do that in a practical fashion that doesn't detract to significantly from those who are here physically.

A

Leslie, would you like to talk on the same point all right.

H

Yeah I just have a follow-up question for John. Okay,.

A

Go ahead like a whole Kathleen for a second thank.

H

You no because in some of the discussions around remote participation etc, there's a question about well how about those hallways and I know that a lot of people come to IDF meetings. Well, we've always valued, basically being involved in more than just one working group and people who come also very much value. The hallway conversations, the fact that you are coming and being part of a discussion with you know the people who understand how this internet thing works. So my question to John is now that you've participated in a number of meetings remotely.

H

How do you feel about your experience and the ability to obtain any of that sort of interaction or oh.

AB

I'm I'm, probably a bad person to ask and the reason why is probably part of the answer to the question: you've really got almost three populations of remote participants. Those who are active in the IETF have been to meetings and are participating remotely for some meetings and for this one that category includes me.

AB

It presumably includes a lesson: she's still listening and Joe, and and and some others who are clearly experienced with the IETF and and clearly have been to a lot of meetings and and well I missed the hallway conversations, I'm, probably less disabled by that than a than the other than the hypothetical newcomer or the other two categories, because if I want to reach out to somebody specific I reach out on a specific topic, I particularly know who to reach out to and and know how to find them.

AB

If someone is in more of a never participated in person or less experienced or both kinds of categories, the the presence of the beatings and the socials and the and the hallway conversations are are invaluable, if only because they don't have the level connection with the with the community. That I are the other people I mentioned have so as I say there. There are two separate questions at least two separate questions there and uh and I did around long enough that I'm not suitable for answering at least one of them.

AB

Thanks and I know. If that answers your question. Yeah.

M

So I agree with John and I have been remote for two meetings and was really glad to have that access, so I was not able to come while pregnant by doctor's orders and then I was on leave right. So I had a very good experience with my remote access but, like John, said I'm very familiar with all the people and I think it's a great capability.

M

You know I was able to follow along with sessions even when I had to you know, there's one case where my session got dropped from meet echo and I'm knowledgeable enough on all how old tools work. So exactly it reconnected, real quick, so I do think we're at a place where this is good for newcomer they're, gonna miss out on culture as well and some context so I, even newcomers that come to the room have a hard time getting adjusted to our culture. I can't imagine what it's like for a remote attendee.

M

So that's a bit of an adjustment and I have one more point: it's something so I guess I will. Let us get closer to dinner.

F

D

So it seems like to me that the is yeah John. It seems like to me that the IAS G does have work to do on this, but I want to invite the community to be thinking about this, and not just looking at us wondering what we're thinking we have been talking on a few mailing lists. We, the community, have been talking on a few mailing lists about a topic. That's come up a number of times which was gee.

D

Should you know what do we do with remote participants, eligibility for NomCom and that's the conversation in the community is having had at periodically kind of fits and starts for for a while and we kind of know what that conversation looks like. Even if we don't know quite what to do about it.

D

I met with Peter and with Lucy, let's dive, I guess and the the current and past NomCom chairs, I talking to them about NomCom process kinds of things, and one of the things that Lucy was dealing with was that she had a.

D

Plausible nominee willing nominee for at least one position last year or me on the in leadership, and it's not totally obvious what the NomCom is supposed to do to get feedback in that situation, but there's nothing in the BCPs that gives them any guidance at all.

D

So I think that we've got I think that we've got work to do as a community, because that's a longer that that's a conversation that the isg can't have an isolation on either one of those so I think you know I think if I understood your point John is that we've gotten past the technical? Can you connect to the video stream level of support for more participants, but we're kind of like saying what does the next level look like and how serious are we about going there?

D

I, don't I, don't think that's going to be a leap to hyperspace, but I think it's a conversation that will that will conclude more quickly. If we start it more quickly. All.

A

Right thanks Spencer, so so the one thing I want to add John is that, like some of us at least on the iesg, we thought about is very seriously how'd. It look like to have a fully virtual meeting we're like nobody's present. We had some brainstorming and Danny orcas like written up a draft and it'll be good. If, like you know, he gets like comments on it and see like kinda.

A

What's missing, what's the things like you want, and it would be like really good to prepare if there's an eventualities where you had to do something like that or do it as an experiment, so I think that will be really good. If more people look at it and for comments Kathleen, you wanna make a follow point on that. I.

M

Do yeah we have people that are willing to actively work on that it would help quite a bit because some of the iesg we tried and we found that we were short on cycles. So you know if we did the design team or something on it. That might be useful, but we need people with cycles who have energy to put into it. Perfect. Thank you and I, so I.

A

Know Sean was online neck, then Miguel so I don't know who came from.

AB

John, are you done yeah two very quick article first Kathleen I'm, certainly willing to actively work on this I've tried actively working on in the past and Espenson knows.

AB

We've tried looking at some of these things, including the now kind of eligibility questions since long before he was on the is G ah and that's the group of questions I'm most worried about not only the NomCom eligibility but the but things we tied in on common eligibility, which we have nothing do with it, and a number of these other things about how much participation we intend to allow and ultimately questions about what that means about fairness.

AB

There are also some questions about training for people mostly going to be remote that we might be working on if we're serious enough, or we might continue to let drift and assume that people don't come to meetings every once in a while are just never going to get it there for relevant enough to aren't for us to invest resources on, but that's the range of questions I'm interested in and I'm certainly don't work on it thanks very much.

AB

A

P

Shawn go hi.

AC

All right, so in the vein that can you hear me all yes, yeah, okay, great in the vein that you know, John was mentioning about remote participation. I found that in the times when I can't attend personally, that remote has been getting increasingly better and useful, as illustrated today.

AC

But one thing that I want to bring up for the iesg and the ITF as a whole to consider is adding the ability to do consensus, checking by virtual hums and hands, because in this ITF meeting, as well as the most more recent ones, when I've done virtually I've wanted to hum one way or the other. But if I type that in the jabber chat room it would or if I try to get in line to the mic, then it D anonymizes my opinion, as well as the opinions of other.

AC

You know people who want to hum one way or another. So that's probably an example of one of several sets of features to improve remote participation, but having it so that virtual participants can hum, along with a hum button and a hum meter to make and measure virtual hums would be great and then also a show of hands because, frequently in meetings, we ask how many people have read the draft and we it would be nice to be able to indicate that. Thank you, yeah Thank, You Shawn.

Z

A

Z

I mean I'm looking at the media team in the background, but there is a button already and it should be anonymous. So I think that sorry, there there's no button for showing hands, but that doesn't have to be an immune is say, I think we're there already. Oh okay,.

AC

Z

Guess I wanna see.

AC

It in my in my.

A

So I I had Mikhail Tobias, Phil and Elliot. Okay, thanks Shawn. Are you done or do you want to see anything.

P

E

A

It thank you. Okay, okay,.

AD

Miguel go Michael, abramson, so I think the current set of tools here is so I'm a very frequent jabber scribe. So the combination of having someone typing who's speaking because that's really hard to tell because people speak really quickly um gives you the whole the slides, the video feed the jabber room. All in one go, it's very good for documenting, um then so I don't know if we can get the jabber in real time on this screen.

AD

This kind of screen that we're seeing here with the pac-man thingy, because that might help actually, because sometimes people are discussing stuff there and that that might help in real time then I think since I do like five or eight jabbers describe sessions a week. I know it is that different working groups have different maturity in different way. They handle the Java room. So that's probably more a thing to work on than the actual tools themselves. It's how you used it and there's also the problem of do people have the cameras enabled this is microphone.

AD

Working like the majority of people using the tools and how it's set up on their devices is something that people need to work on. I, don't think the tools themselves are the majority of problem until we get like holodeck. It's not gonna. Give you a better what right now, it's the level of technologists limiting and how people use Thank.

A

You Spencer, you.

D

Just wanted to reply to that really quickly, because I think it's a good observation. Two things one is to remind us that raising hands is not is more valuable than just voting. I. Think that's I! Think that's really good and I. Think the the other thing is the number of times that I have a chair door.

D

Working great well I have a chair to working group since 2010, but even back then we would ask a quite you know the question and try to take a job, a home involving Jabbar, and then somebody will look the other room. You know a minute or two later and say now, which one did they hum for so I think you know you're, saying the okay, the immediate feedback, where it's like that pops up in a meaningful ray and not just me, typing home with a whole lot of Em's energy everywhere.

D

It was a really good observation. Thank you for that. Thank.

A

Spencer: okay, a novice to be.

Q

Asked on room I will see, but speaking.

A

P

Q

I think we've come quite a long way. I still remember like three years ago. I did the first IETF trust, chair, presentation, remotely and I. Think after that we could see like quite a huge improvement of the things I want to mention that I mean these things do cost money, and at the beginning it was quite a significant cost per head of remote attendee. So it's very nice that we now have a very large number of attendees that kind of drives the price to cost price price per head down. I.

Q

Think what I'm like building on what John said the guidance I'm seeking is, if you want to make this fully functional equal to local attendee experience, we could probably pull in a lot more money to make this better. Otherwise, we are probably constrained by the budgets that we have, and this is something that the IOC cannot decide. That is something that the iesg would need to give guidance to say: yes, like push more push more or something, or you are happy with current speed of development of that remote attendee experience.

Q

So that is something you would need to give guidance against. Thank.

A

I

I wanted a different topic, so, in the same.

AD

But it's quick Kathleen! This is Elliott. There Kathleen mentioned that. There's the need for help in terms of trying to figure out how to go about doing a remote. Only meeting I think it would be helpful if there were some parameters around that. In terms of what questions you want answered, and you know if I think we know some of the questions are quite obvious, but if you guys can put out a note about that in terms of how you'd like to structure that maybe to get some volunteers so.

A

Those are affiliate, like I, think we can send out the pointer to the draft like it says, like initial thoughts like actually quite a bit like off initial thought in there. So what I'm saying Suresh is.

AD

Ask ask the community for what what you want and see how we respond sounds.

A

But thank you develop.

M

That draft further after I mean we've worked on it quite a bit and it's really a very thorough draft, but it's hit most points if we miss something and other sections needs to be filled in so the author of the draft is over there, so I'll.

A

Let him chime in send.

B

Dan you work in by author, the draft it was the guy who said who sort of said. Okay I'll write some notes around this, and it became a bigger thing, but just to be clear about what what Suresh is talking about was.

B

The idea is G had a what was called the many couches design team, which was thinking about what, if we were all connecting into the meeting from many different couches, and they had a number of people who are involved in in remote activities in the past involved with that group, and it looked at what would this look like and and put together a list sort of? What are the main issues teasing out?

B

Those kind of things I think that the general sense out of that group was that it was very hard to imagine what a fully virtualized.

B

And the piece of their so I'll send a pointer to the ninety nine attendees for that, but I would also just say to answer a sort of Elliott's question: I'm, not sure where that discussion should go and I would throw it to you folks. As far as saying where's the right place to have that there's other groups meeting venue, be me: there's places where that could happen.

B

But just saying it is out there and if people want to comment and also if somebody else wants to take on that draft, I'm certainly willing to pass the pen. Okay, Elliot go next sure.

AA

Just to amplify it briefly on some of the scenarios, the design team as well and we covered- and the draft talks about and part of this is what's the community interest, there's a wide range from disaster recovery center, our errors, you know a major disaster hits where we would have had the site, and now we wanted need to have some type of virtual meaning to having partial you know. Virtual meetings involving lots of different working groups, perhaps between plenaries, physical physical face-to-face, is that we have three times a year on.

AA

So there's a number of different types of scenarios, and we decide I think mostly decided to focus on replicating the formal working group structure and thinking an interim thinking about replicating the formal aspects of the meeting, not coholic conversations, and we could really use help. Thank you. Thank you.

A

Are you on the same topic, or only.

AE

Tangentially, okay,.

A

Okay, Phil Goff, okay,.

I

So Phil Han, Baker I, think I believe that it should not require degree in nuclear physics to use the Internet and one of the problems that I'm having is I'm fairly aggressive in deploying stuff in my house, and so what my hundred IP addresses in use and one of the rules that I have is that I only install consumer stuff and I only follow the information available to the consumer.

I

My network doesn't work and I cannot debug it and there isn't any tool that I can see in the consumer space that allows me to work out what's going on in my network, and it seems to me that at the moment we have a very inward facing culture of okay, the rest of the world are going to all become geeks and they're, going to work out how to do this stuff and they're going to work out how to packet sniff their networks on one hand and then the other one is that well they're going to put this stuff together.

I

It's just work and in between we have this area of well, it's not working, and nobody will tell me why and I don't even know which of those boxes in my network is the one that is generating infinite number of packets and spamming the network and causing it to fail and I think that this is a challenge that we need to take on board in one.

I

In the TLS session we had a an enterprise network coming along with an issue to do with management of enterprise networks, and that's a sort of input that we've had many times, because you know enterprises they have people whose job it is to do this stuff and I. Don't think that we've got it for consumers and I.

I

Don't think that anybody is really taking their needs seriously and if you want to sell all these Internet of Things devices to people, you know if people buy Internet of Things device number 101 and their network falls over they're not going to be able to buy number hundred and two. So it's a problem. That's got to be solved somewhere thanks for.

A

Okay, anybody wants to take this.

I

Z

Is a researcher and I can say this is a hard problem. It's a hard problem to find the problems, it's a hard problem to come to tile the customer.

Z

What the problem is- and this is like in the crime and your setup is like a really high bar, because when your car's broken, you also don't try to repair yourself right, say we I think we need to educate more experts in this area and, yes, we need some guidance, give some guidance you, but I'm also not sure what the request for the I use, G and the IETF is here well. Actually, when.

I

I have my car I can plug in the ODB to device, and it will actually tell me what the fault codes are. I think that if people could start looking at the protocols that are coming across asking.

P

I

Do we know when these systems have gone wrong? How do we debug this network? This is something that needs to be folded into all these oh yeah. Maybe this is something actually I brought up with the IAB instead, but I think that it is something that the IETF community needs to get a hold of thanks.

A

For earlier than me, so.

AA

Just briefly I've been happening, there are more participation from some of the public interest groups, certainly there's a side meeting about it and we are seeing some more participation for those of you who remember Dallas and the van that was going by with Symes trying to encourage handling better use of spam phone calls and so on. And the IETF does get some interaction and we are really open to hearing about new work.

AA

But you know the community and those who are connected in need to be coming with some ideas and thinking about the space, because I certainly agree that there could be a lot of better operations and management guidance for home networks.

F

Absolutely I Spencer go before me.

D

Yeah I'd like to thank Phil for inviting the IB back to the stage so I didn't have to, but I think I think I think his question about that does point out that this is gonna, be a multi-dimensional chi or a multi-level kind of kind of problem that we would would be looking at that there you. There are probably things that we need to do in the IETF.

D

There are probably things that we need to do in the IRT F and there are probably things that we need to do with the eye with the IAB that I, you know if we could get to the point where people knew whether to call their cable provider or Facebook when Facebook wasn't working. You know who to complain to I think that would be like you know the leap to hyperspace right now or the invention of fire.

D

L

Binaca, so the issue is consumers is that you know from time to time, because you you work in the internet. You are asked by the neighbors, the family and everybody to to be that the point of contact now, one of Eagle, the shop was one of those person. The only thing that counts the price right, I've, never seen one of those project product which says I'm easily debuggable right. It is one of the issue that we're facing here from an operational point of view.

L

Yes, there are plenty of things that we should be doing, but the other day, mainly it's a price thing. That's why I'm secure the IOT world because nobody's asking what about the lifecycle of an IOT device right right now the market is about. Ok, you buy it and whatever doesn't work just right away by anyone. So there is a cost issue there as well. Ok,.

A

M

Be really quick so with the IOT worker groups we have, we don't have many vendors implementing and what happens is in the vertical spaces. There's.

P

M

Groups that take up our standards and do the work, this kind of thing documentation as it gets applied. The products might better fit into groups where the implementers are.

A

Ok, I just wanted to say to Phil: there is tools that exist. It doesn't come from the idea, but this is to a God metalizer, which is like extremely good. It comes from my CSI from Berkeley, so it's pretty awesome so, but I do understand where you're coming from and I do think we can help a bit more. So please go ahead. Welcome.

AE

To the IDF Thank You Erica from the / Technology Fund, um um in light of the discussion about like remote participation and lowering the barrier to participation, I wanted to express my slight disappointment as a newcomer now, but the lack of translation at the idea I understand that there might be an interest in keeping English the working language, but that does not mean that the language barrier could not be lower it out here in events and also for the work in between I think the Internet is a global network and it should be managed in a group with a global mindset.

AE

Thank you. Thank.

A

You yeah thanks a lot Michael. You go next hi.

AD

Michael Richardson, so we have three routing a DS and is it four or five art? Eighty? Seventy three three three now, oh.

B

Yeah three: okay.

AD

So we got rid of one okay, so um have you all reduced it to less than a 50% job? And can we fire a few more of you then or how's it going? That's what I want to know. We're gonna have smaller iesg, more happy iesg. What's how's that working tell us who.

P

Wants to go first: okay, men.

Y

Go first so I think when we talk about say, reducing our load to 50%. We create a tension there between making it, so the new iadies can come on board and have their load be 50 percent birth is reducing the total number of these, which makes the load go back up right now, I think we've been looking more at the former one, which is to make the position more accessible by cutting down the commitment to it.

Y

Now, as far as speaking for art, which has three abs, our load has been somewhat cyclical and it may be a little down now so maybe next year, this time we should be talking about that.

P

A

P

So many documents.

AF

AA

We really like high-quality documents, so I say for routing. Is you know all three of the routing ages are doing? This are basically full-time, because there is that level of workload, and we do think that there will be a non-trivial number of working groups finishing up in the next. You know 18 months or so, but we're not there yet and so we'll have to see what happens and what exciting new work folks are bringing in to make that kind of a decision.

AA

But it is definitely it's a trade-off between how much bandwidth the isg has for strategy and steering discussions. So if you want us to spend as the iesg thinking about things like NomCom and remote participation and oh by the way, there's you know why ask the 2.0 we're going on and how can we organize our meetings better?

AA

That requires bandwidth from the is and if you have lower the number of ADEs to the point that all we can do is well the stuff that keeps us from getting in trouble, which is to say processing documents in general working groups. Then you won't get that steering so there's a real trade-off and a balance between making the position more accessible and having the isg actually able to steer thanks.

A

D

So I was I'm, a transport area director and you'll notice that that's one of the areas that only has two IDs now, even though I wrote the RFC ello in three but I'm, not bitter, but.

D

But seriously so Mary and I are sitting and transported about something like some number of like 15 to 25 hours of a week, and you know so roughly half time, depending on who's counting and we're really trying to keep to that. Even if you're some week, we had more time.

D

So we kept by add more time just to make sure that we, you know what we're telling people in the next NomCom cycle is true, I'm not seeing that we could go much below what my wife and I are doing now, at least at least on in transport and I. Think that aleus observation that, what's most likely to suffer first, is anything it's anything strategic, because there is darn little on the bi-weekly, formal telecast of strategic. So that's a hamster treadmill for 15 people. Basically, I think that this is.

D

This is forcing us to learn how to involve more people. I think the transfer area review team, I think I think the reviews coming out of the transport area I haven't been as good in a long time as they are now, and that's because, where we found three former area directors to be a triage team, we didn't have that before. So we're learning we're learning how to do the job where we're not massively. You know, booked up all the time.

D

We'd also like to be able to talk to the members of the community and see what they think. But that's that's the view from in transport thanks.

I

Man, sir there's.

A

Nobody else like I would like to say something as well, so as a primary myself, I'll give a big plus one to what Ben said. So the idea is to reduce a lot of the ad so that it becomes accessible to more people. So if I had to be here, full-time I would be here so I think one of the things that helps. If you are like it's accessible to more people, you get a bigger pool for of people to select from, and that's what you're trying to shoot for.

A

So any reduction in Lourdes is like you know, per ad, and it also helps a little bit with like load sharing. So like this time so and like you know, I might go away for a bit on a day, job stuff or, like you know, Teddy might go away. So it kind of really helps that, like the number of ADEs is not reduced. So just a point, one.

P

Yeah and I just wanted to say you know: I started this ops ID fairly recently and I started with it being basically a full-time job, but one very quickly learns. You know how to authorize this, which puts out as important but I mainly want to say, is. Thank you very much tool that I wrecked at folk. It makes life so much easier to know where to focus etc, and it's becoming manager.

I

AG

Tim Chang hmm there just came back to the earlier discussion about virtual meetings, like I, can't quite see how you would get away from having the the regular physical meetings we have I. Think Michiko is absolutely fantastic tool. The fact that we're now getting recordings appearing almost immediately after the sessions finished is fantastic but I don't see, for example, how you have a large working group or a plenary happening over me to echo I, don't think it's the right tool for that kind of thing.

AG

Things like the hackathon Akande, you kind of have to be there to to get that buzz and benefit from it or last night's new, fantastic social is I, don't know how you'd have a virtual social now to be interesting. Okay, I wonder what whether we can, though, use the the virtual tools to do more interim meetings. I was looking at the data tracker.

AG

It seems we now do 15 or 20 interim meetings between meetings, whereas five years ago it's two or three so do the people here think we should be encouraging or do the eighties up there I think their chairs should be trying to organize more meetings.

AG

Maybe during the meetings I'm here think of a topic for their working group sale, focus an interim meeting on and take the pressure off having the three meetings a year of all the drafts get updated three times a year and maybe strands spread the workload out by doing more virtual interim stuff. Okay,.

A

Thanks Spencer Benoit Ilia, so.

D

If I'm, remembering correctly and people on the on they're putting up here, would correct me if I was wrong, the way we got the mini couches design team was about five minutes after the peak Zika virus care.

P

D

Bornus areas, so it's important for us to remember that we're not talking about situations that we can choose, whether that happens or not. We are already moving IETF meetings around because of travel bans. If those become reciprocal, we could end up with a virtual meet a large virtual meeting very, very quickly.

D

It's important for us to remember that if you say, if you say me, gecko is awesome, but it's not the right answer. You may pray won't be right, but it's going to be important for us to figure out what right answers. Look like I, don't think. That's really important to remember.

L

D

L

Tim I agree with you. We have to realize that the work is in different stages at different point time: I don't see how we could organize above virtually it's not to be very difficult. We need to have this whole way, conversation between people who believe they have the same language that we didn't get dumped now in. Whenever you have a working group, then there is like the first iterations there, but at the point in time where we've got like a wiki with open issues, this is the perfect timing to do interim meetings.

L

It could be all vertical. I have some of our working groups who are not meeting physically, but they have inter meetings and they do good work and I'm pushing them for more interim meeting to go faster, which is a different problem.

AA

Yeah, yes, so I was going backwards on here, points absolutely pushing for virtue in terms when they make sense, but there's also a trade-off there, because you force time zone synchronicity on them, and that has an impact as well. So I think you know if you could have focused discussion on the mailing list.

AA

That's really great, but also have the virtual interims there's an impact, because people have to devote more resources to actually participating from the virtual in a preparation for the virtual meetings, and it's my sense so far is that's sustainable when you're pushing virtual interims for a little while, but then the particular working group may tire out of it. Certainly I was pushing pretty hard for a while, and we got some of them without constant push. It does slow down.

AA

So yes, of course, the more people actually do work, the more work we get done and the faster it gets done on the social aspects and interaction aspects right.

AA

This is the challenge there and we're talking in many couches about how to handle something that might look like a virtual meeting, which would not be necessarily intentionally created right, a disaster sort of thing, but if we're trying to do something intentionally, one of the points that Simon, who deals with medical stuff med, is to stop thinking about replicating what we have in the physical space to think about what sorts of interactions are natural in the virtual space, whether that's you know various you know snapchats or hangouts, or you there's a lot of different interaction, things that could be available and some of those you know here.

AA

We sort of wander around looking for a good table to sit at in order to have a conversation or stand for six hours right here in a virtual space. It might be much easier to pop up a discussion and have a sign saying come talk to us if you're interested in so there's different things, one could do, but it requires thinking outside the box. But then another piece- and this is more on the outreach side, which is we have a bad tendency.

AA

I know I'm certainly have been guilty of it in the past I'm, not actually interacting with the IETF FERS, who are local to us to have interactions to pull our colleagues in to the social and professional network so that they might come and be involved in the IETF and we've been doing some experiments with that, calling it IETF local communities, there's various drafts, but we've been doing it at Yale in Boston for a year penguin. So there are ways that we can help bind pieces of.

AA

The IETF you know knows right to continue to connect in and I think we have to be pretty creative on a number of these fronts.

K

Go ahead: okay,.

S

They are McDonough edges, so we have a problem with some of the documents that we are creating and how we are creating them, and this goes particularly for the RFC's, the RCS work. Okay, so we are doing more and more software interfaces, software api's. We are trying to put them for an RFC process that RFC process is just too slow because the vendors will not implement an RFC and essentially in a model I'm talking about young models until it's being an RC and when it's, when you have an RFC, then you're realizing.

S

What is the problem with it? You note model and you are trying to see how you can iterate fastly for a model which is essentially a software interface, and it just takes too long. So for like a basic routing model, it took us six years to get one version now that people will start slowly implementing it. So from the day when it was created until it was implemented by a vendor, it passed seven years and that model might not be right.

S

So we have to come up with a new idea how we can iterate through the models that we are proposing faster and that also vendors will start implementing them, because then we cannot with. If we wait for the vendors implement an RFC, we will not be able to put all those model together, because there are already some discrepancies in the existing models where it's not easy to put them together. Okay,.

A

So I know Bono has an answer just for you with semantic questioning is not the answer.

Y

L

Y

S

Versioning is not for that. We need something you know faster, that the RFC call it RFC light hadn't or something that we, when you have a working group last call, instead of making for the working last call say, do an agreement and push it out as an RFC call it. You know a different type of an RFC that can be that we can create in a year maybe five RFC's on the same model and.

P

There will be obsoleting.

S

Each other, because we have to start implementing that and this how we will find out if it work or doesn't work so.

L

I believe that, specifically in my area, we have to learn toward differently. If I speak about routing or security, we need the full spec. It must be perfect in the world of automation in apps, we need to be tr8 faster, as I keep telling in ops. It's a dream to believe in that we will have the perfect model day, one right, so we need to update those. You were in the ops meeting where I presenting that we should be working from github right.

L

We should be having the pull request directly on those models and we should have the semantic versioning and from time to time, we should have an RFC. Why to explain how to use those models and I agree that we need this process. We've been I, believe kind of failing in the ITF, because we want to have those model perfect when I see, for example, one document routing that speaks about type death and you want to have in their lab well every single tied death, I'm thinking it is crazy.

L

Can we have one RFC every three months and whenever we know about new type, that we update, that I agree with you that we have to work with automation from software were somehow. Let me try to make sure I push on this correctly compared to some of the models where people work from gates have been open source and just say, we did version two and by the way we made a mistake, if not version three and we learn ends rushing for.

L

So what we're doing with this young catalog is trying to get all the metadata for those young models that give us a scorecard telling. This is the one of the industries focusing on and there are implementations and we learn from that.

L

Whether you have to.

S

Float a purple solution: I, don't have a good solution, I've been thinking about it and when trying to figure out how to do that. But one of the thing is that we all have to tell two hours. You know essentially employers. We have to start doing some of those software interfaces sooner because otherwise it will not go anywhere. They are this. You know some of the models that are already out there they're supposed to be working together once you start putting them together, they are not working. I know some of them.

S

They are not working today.

S

Okay- and it's in this adage, not just a question for the ops area, because the routing area- you know the transport area, everybody is producing, you know the models and unless we have, you know something across them.

A

You volunteering to help bean or yeah. Okay, I am thank you, Eckerd Analia, yeah,.

X

So I guess a person on a plus one with them. I was saying they do some really nice work with this github cvetic versioning, metaphor yang and I'm, hoping that they're in a pilot and we'll be able to adopt it across the ITF. um Their thing is one thing: your furnace e and other working groups, especially ones they're, really active like TLS and quick and HTTP is people are starting to implement specific implementation drafts.

X

They say this is the version run all implement and there's like firma and so you'll see substantial amounts of field of implementations on specific IDs, even though they're pre, RC and I think that would be much easier if we had the stuff that I was doing, but it's something we're already doing so it's a matter. People have to understand that you're gonna have to get implementation experience before you shut, and if that requires a certain woman. Mr. live with us, but I was saying we made a mistake and now we're gonna do this one.

AA

So I can beat me to pointing out what HTTP is doing right or was doing with different versions, but actually I. Think there's three points I'd like to make one is, you may think about it as just we're trying to get these models out and get it folks to implement them?

AA

It's going very slow, we're trying to get them perfect, but there's a large amount of technical negotiation, because for a very long time we have had protocols where the implementations and what the CLI looks like management, interface and interactions have diverged drastically and there can be really different abstractions, and so there are some things where it's much easier. Bgp has a lot of similarities, but even so there are a lot of vendor specificity and there's a big tension between how much do you standardize and what level and how useful the models are.

AA

So I hear you and I know it's been frustrating as one question I have is you know, is there a good way that we could encourage more interoperability? Events where there's sufficient.

AA

Industry, energy and impetus to motivate the actual implementation, as opposed to people sitting on the sides and say well when it's ready, of course, I'm sure we'll want it, but they don't need it quite yet, and the second thing that I'd, like you to think about, is how do we manage it going forward because I'm sure it's gonna shock nobody to know that we keep adding things to BGP and OSPF and is is and all of our other. You know dearly beloved protocols, and once we have gang models, how do we have augmentations?

AA

How do you have AG men tations for the extensions as we do them? So we don't get too much discrepancy, but we still give the flexibility for the vendor variation and features that we know are necessary in the marketplace. So.

S

One of the thing is was often happening during the working group. Last call. It tends to be significant changes in the structure. You think you're coming to an end. Let's Rhys pin it up from the beginning, and this is a problem because the vendors will say until it's stable. We don't want to implement it, so we have to say somehow: okay, if we really call it the working group last call and you're saying this- is the structure that it is put it out: seed, implementation and come back.

S

So it's changing so many times dramatically in the working group last call so.

AA

I there are two things we ask. First of all, of course, is we need more reviews. We need more people reviewing these documents, we need more people reviewing all of our documents and that's part of them. What happens is working with last call. Cert is a forcing function, it would be good job, maybe maybe we could have some interoperability pieces, but where there has to be the interest enforce. The second thing, I'd ask is, please make the clear distinction between presentation, layer aspects and the models like the enemy.

AA

Okay, like the nmda guide, like so there's a big distinction between presentation layer and what are the actual abstractions that are being done, uses.

S

AA

S

You use it, you.

AA

The bottles may look like the structures varying, but if the abstractions that are inside and how you have to handle it is it's a presentation layer, it's annoying, but it's not the same type of radical change that you're discussing.

A

Okay, John go ahead. Yeah I want me to throw up the slide that you sent me I presented it for you, yeah.

AH

Give me one second to resist germs. A ski actually have something on this topic, and then you know I'm going with the other one. You know I've interacted with both Benoit and Illya. One thing that you guys ought to think about the kind of extension of Benoit's comment about the github and yep clear rating. One of the things that we've looked at internally is we've looked at this notion where we can virtualize a nota me. You know testing right.

AH

So if you had a situation where and I'm gonna kind of resist a little bit kind of the more reviewers thing right, because sometimes you just need writing code. You need to see what is gonna do in the real world in real life may not be production, but there's no substitute for that. I can tell you from personal experience, so one of the things that might be worth considering is you know, as an extension of what Benoit said.

AH

Can you take some of this work drafts models code that goes with them and have a virtualized environment of you know some of those popular operating. You know operating systems that you can actually give it a dry run through right. We've done that a lot, and it really you know if you're, if you're looking for acceleration that's one way right ya know is that you know so. I mean and I mean you'll need some vendor support for that or I mean, and frankly it's in many cases you have open source applications that you can.

AH

You can use for that. It's not that hard today, right.

A

L

I fully agree with that, and we discussed that together some time ago and we're slowly but surely going in that direction because that's important. So yes, thanks.

AH

Rescue so I switch topics where it is I, get it yeah. I, don't know if this is the extension of this conversation or all right.

B

This is back to a previous conversation. Okay,.

A

Go ahead time, I'll go to John after Sam.

B

Wyler I want to go back to interim meetings, been more I, appreciate your interest in in pushing these I want to see us normalize using more virtual interims. You know theories the time zone issue I want to see you the is GA and us in the community asking our working group cheers hey. What can we make progress on in a virtual interim, encouraging virtual interims experiment with the timezone problem?

B

You know, maybe we have a rotating schedule of shifting eight hours every time we do one at a exactly well, we can experiment same thing with the technology. If we need queue management, we can invent this technology. This is not hard.

B

There may be process things. You may need to relax the rules on how far in advance you need to approve a virtual interim, make it regular eyes. So we're going to do one every other week and we don't need to approve every one and, if you're laying around say we can have whatever, but but let's embrace trying the new technology and see if we work better using it. Yeah yeah I got so.

AA

Yes, we completely agree. That's why the is GS issued a statement about this I. Remember a year or two ago saying you don't have doesn't need to be posters far ahead. You know we can post for a series of them and so on, because we absolutely are encouraged.

AA

Obviously it depends on the area and the area director and the energy with which one enforces the concept, but absolutely I.

M

Think you know, many of us are encouraging them, but it depends on the working group. It doesn't it's not really necessary for all working groups and then, in terms of playing with the time schedules will say. Teep is the one it's not a working group, but they had AB off at the last session and they're working towards a working group.

M

They have done a pretty good job of trying to alternate the times, and you know you get varied attendance as a result when it's in the middle of the night for some so but it has been rotated and things go out on the list and minutes go out on the list and people who couldn't intend to have used that as their source of catching back up. So we are trying benoît.

L

And we've been doing that. Actually it's not that we want to formalize and have like every two weeks, but mainly this is the reverse: I'm, always asking the church. What can I do to help, for example, in net, not at some point in time we had like bi-weekly inter mailings, because you have to fix a couple of issues. You want issues by issues there, so I fingers is very efficient and we should continue this. Thank.

A

You thank you Thanks w, don't talk on the same topic.

Q

Because dots working group co-chair so we actually do practice. Interim meetings like once between each saw about six weeks after an ITF six weeks before, and we found them very good. Inflection points and I would say the bureaucratic overhead of posting agenda requesting it is is really not that much I'm, not sure whether we could go to it be weekly intermediate.

Q

Thank there's enough energy, but we found it particularly useful, like keeping it and having these milestones by which, like different drafts, are kind of crystallized again, so I think from my side for every six weeks. The current mechanism is totally fine for be weekly on I'm, not sure, but I don't see a strong need, at least in our working group, for that Thank.

P

You Warren, so yeah I participated in a number of interims recently and one of the things that makes them really nice is that people are actually interested in the topic. That's going to be discussed, show up and generally you know, they've read the drafts and stuff, so they seem to be much more effective. What I, mainly want to said is just a reminder that if participants want a virtual interim, you know suggest it to your chair, I find it hasn't, occurred to them and it's very easy to set up so that we can get progress.

P

AH

John right so Suresh, one of the things that you and I talked about was and I you apologize, I missed the first few minutes of the meeting. I had a work obligation. I understand that you shared some information about the v6. Only incremental ITF discussion we've been having. What can you summarize where we landed I mean obviously during the plenary here. It's it's still the same way. It's been all week, which you know we kind of expected, but um and and I believe. Your comment earlier was kind of one-way.

AH

So is there any this any any thoughts on where we stand for the rest of this week and perhaps Friday 100 so.

A

So what I said was, like you know: I requested people to try the nat64 SSID tomorrow and day after, and we're going to be forthcoming with information for Singapore on how we want to go about with the experiment coming up.

AH

Well, we publish that information. How far we do. You expect me to publish that information Friday at 100 I would.

A

Say a month before at least the meeting itself, at least before the meeting. If you start now, it's awesome super thanks. Chris yeah, good.

K

Evening, well, this afternoon, I was asked to split a draft into two more draft to the tech we are more of see published and we are consuming a lot of those RFC numbers and I was wondering what do we do to prevent the tender the RFC 10,000 Berg.

AI

Christian I think what to do is wrap.

A

Okay, Heather: you want to go before everybody else.

W

No not particularly but I will Heather finding an RFC. We are very aware the RFC 10,000 problem. um If you do some math, given we do about 350 documents a year, we got a couple years to figure it out. We have this other small project, that's sort of getting us right now. It's about the RFC format. I, don't know! If anyone's heard of that one.

W

So, um yes, we're aware that we will be working on it. We have spent some programmer time on it already I'm, not particularly concerned about fixing it before well before it becomes an issue. Thank.

A

You, okay, thank you. Nobody else! Okay, I thought I saw Bob Brisco at the mic, but he seems to have vanished so I think it's okay, so going once going twice going twice. Thank you very much. So we give you back half an hour of your life to do.

A

That's it folks, party's over other bodies, getting started.

I

AJ