►
From YouTube: IETF115-GENDISPATCH-20221108-1500
Description
GENDISPATCH meeting session at IETF115
2022/11/08 1500
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/115/proceedings/
B
C
B
C
A
D
All
right,
hello,
hello,
welcome
to
gen
dispatch.
Please
grab
a
seat,
we're
ready
to
get
started.
We're
excited
to
have
so
many
of
you
in
the
room
physically
and
for
those
of
you
joining
virtually
as
well.
Hopefully
you
can
all
see
slides
if
you're
joining
virtually
my
name
is
Kirsty
Payne
I'm,
one
of
the
co-chairs
of
gen
dispatch
and
I'm
here
with
Michael,
okay
and
we're
here
for
our
first
joint
in
person,
gen
dispatch
session
very
exciting
times.
D
D
We
have,
of
course
the
note
well,
which
you
will
have
seen
many
times
during
the
ITF
so
far,
but
please
note
well.
This
is
a
reminder
that
by
participating
in
the
iitf,
you
agree
to
follow
the
processes
and
policies
you
will
have
agreed
to
this
when
you
signed
up.
So
please
note
it
note
it
well
and
read
all
of
these
very
helpful,
informative
BCPS.
If
you
need
any
advice,
talk
to
working
group
chairs
or
the
ads,
so
some
meeting
tips.
D
Hopefully,
this
is
not
new
if
you've
been
in
sessions
all
week,
but
we'd
like
to
go
over
it
for
in-person
participants.
Please
make
sure
that
you
sign
into
the
session
using
the
meets
Echo
lights
client
from
the
data
tracker.
This
creates
an
attendance
list
of
who
is
here,
provides
a
record
but
also
allows
you
to
join
the
queue.
So
please
know
if
you
stand
up
and
you
get
in
the
queue
but
you're
not
joining
the
queue
on
meet
Echo.
D
We
won't
call
your
name
if
you
have
technical
difficulties
joining
different
question,
but
please
join
on
the
meets
Echo
lights,
clients
and
then
get
up
to
the
mic.
Afterwards,
keep
your
audio
and
your
video
off
if
you're,
using
the
on-site
version.
Otherwise
you'll
appear
up
here,
nice
and
big
and
for
those
remote
participants,
please
make
sure
your
audio
and
your
video
is
off
unless
you
are
sharing
or
presenting,
and
we
recommend
you
use
a
headset
okay.
D
These
are
some
resources,
just
linked
off
the
data
tracker,
where
you
can
find
how
you
can
participate
fully
in
today's
session,
so
welcome
again
to
agendaspatch
this
hybrid
meeting.
It's
great
to
be
here.
We're
excited
and
for
the
agenda
today
we
just
have
one
item:
the
relationship
between
the
ietf
and
its
trust.
So
we
have
some
time
to
bash
this
agenda.
D
E
Thank
you
and
I
will
take
full
advantage
of
the
clause
in
the
meeting.
Others.
Let
me
take
off
the
mask
as
active
speaker
and
thanks
to
all
of
you
for
wearing
yours,
while
you're
not
actively
speaking
first
of
all.
So
what
I'm
going
to
talk
about
here
on
is
is
without
any
Dotson
as
an
individual
participant,
but
but
while
I
still
sort
of
have
a
ad
hat.
Thank
you
Mata
for
taking
up
the
chair
role.
He
replaced
Pete
Resnick,
whose
new
role
in
the.
What
did
you
take
on?
E
Thank
you
for
not
knowing
is
yes
the
right
answer.
So
thanks
for
stopping
I
had
a
really
good
pool
of
volunteers
to
select
from
I
noted
everybody's
name
that
I
didn't
pick
for
for
Gen
dispatch.
So
you
might
expect
me
to
hit
you
up
if
I
have
future
roles
to
fill
and
I
will
pass
your
name
along
to
other
80s,
so
so
just
so
that
you're
warned,
but,
as
I
said
this,
this
document
sort
of
it's
a
zero
zero.
E
It's
a
short
one
came
actually
out
of
sort
of
me
doing
a
bit
of
research
that
was
sort
of
motivated
by
the
trust
restructuring
proposal
that
that
was
announced
a
while
ago
and
the
consultation
that
they
had
and
also
I,
while
I
send
it
to
the
Gen
dispatch
list
to
get
a
discussion
started.
I
didn't
actually
request
time
here.
E
So
the
only
the
only
reason
I
realized
that
I
was
on
the
agenda,
was
that
I
looked
at
the
agenda
to
see
if
there
was
one
and
I
realized,
oh
and
but
that
by
then
it
was
too
late
for
us
to
do
anything
about
it
and
I.
Just
decided.
I'm
gonna
make
some
slides
I'm
going
to
present
anyway,
but
I
thought
it
was
a
bit
premature
to
even
talk
about
this
without
having
a
bit
more
email
discussion
first.
But
but
here
we
are
so
that's
the
caveat.
E
E
E
Why
isn't
there
a
document
like
I
think
it
was
Joel
who
wrote
I
want
to
say
87
29,
so
8729
is
a
document
written
from
the
perspective
of
the
ITF
as
an
informational
document
describing
the
expectations
that
the
ITF
has
for
the
trust
in
terms
of
the
licensing
under
which
it
makes
the
assets
available
and
when
I
first
saw
the
title.
I
was
like
this
is
exactly
the
document.
E
It
was
basically
a
one-to-one
Personnel
overlap
between
the
trust
and
what
would
now
be
considered.
The
iitf,
LLC
and
ayasa
2
basically
completely
changed
this
model,
where
all
trustees
are
now
independently
appointed
by
the
isg
isoc
and
mostly
the
nomcom
right,
but
there's
no
overlap
anymore
and
there
weren't,
even
any
formal
Liaisons
or
something
like
that.
Therefore,
and
I
think
this
is
an
oversight.
E
But
nobody
really
paid
attention
to
this
during
ayasa
too,
because
there
were
other
things
that
were
more
important,
but
I
think
it's
sort
of
something
that
we
might
want
to
revisit
sort
of,
probably
informally,
between
the
trust
and
the
LLC
to
see
if
we
can
inform
ourselves
better
anyway.
So
that's
a
lot
about
where
this
comes
from
right.
The
high
level
point
is
nothing's
on
fire
next
slide.
Please
sort
of
sort
of
this
is
my
impression
of
what
I
believe
the
relationship
is
I've.
E
The
document
is
written
as
if
this
was
ITF
consensus.
It's
not
right.
This
is
an
individual,
zero.
Zero
and
the
questions
are,
you
know,
is
my
understanding
or
my
belief
here
like
in
the
rough
or
is
it
shared
and
and
independently
of
that,
it's
like.
Is
it
even
useful
to
write
this
down
in
some
form?
E
So
the
the
iitf
community
and
the
ITF
LLC
as
the
representative
can't
give
directions
to
the
trust
by
Design
right
but
I
would
say
operationally
right
their
part
because
they
hold
the
assets
that
we
require
on
and
also
like
I.
Don't
know.
If
morally,
is
the
right
word
here
as
a
non-native
speaker,
but
you
know
the
trustees
come
from
the
IDF
community,
pretty
much
all
of
them
do.
I
stock
appointees
I
would
count
as
ITF
community
in
a
wider
sense
as
well
right
so
they're
they
are
appointed
by
us.
E
They
come
from
us
and
therefore,
in
my
view,
they
should
sort
of
morally
want
to
reflect
the
expectations
that
the
ITF
Community
has
on
how
the
trust
operates
unless
it
sort
of
goes
against
the
purpose
of
the
trust
right,
so
that
comes
first,
and
so
that
means
to
me
at
least
that
the
itaf
community
should
have
an
ability
to
express
the
desires
we
have
about.
The
trust
and
I
would
expect
sort
of
an
openness
on
the
trust
side,
to
sort
of
be
open
to
those
expectations.
E
Right
and
and
sort
of
the
community
should
have
sort
of
some
measures
to
secure
this
relationship
going
forward.
This
is
where
the
restructuring
might
come
in,
but
it
also
the
flip
side
of
this
is
right.
This
is
our
trust.
It
holds
our
assets
and,
for
example,
that
means
we
need
a
fund
it
adequately.
So
we
can
do
the
job
well,
right
and,
and
the
people
you
know,
have
adequate
indemnification
in
terms
of
insurance
and
other
means
right.
This
is
sort
of
a
flip
side
of
this
thing.
Next
slide.
E
The
most
I
must
say
is
that
the
foundational
documents
say
that
the
trust
should
publish
or
must
publish,
I
forget
what
the
word
says,
and
this
is
a
quote
right:
procedures
for
the
management
of
the
assets
and
because
you
know
the
purpose
of
the
trust
is
to
hold
the
assets
and
to
manage
them
and
to
license
them
out
freely
right
and
so
to
me.
This
is
sort
of
this.
E
Having
these
procedures
publicly
documented,
and
we
can
argue
about
the
level
of
detail-
that's
required
I
think
it's
sort
of
a
key
requirement
for
having
some
operational
transparency
and
and
I
don't
want
to.
We
don't
have
that
at
the
moment.
At
least
we
don't
have
it
in
a
way
that
I
would
call
this
right.
There's
a
lengthy
FAQ,
there's
a
lot
of
other
material
in
the
Trust
website,
but
but
nothing
that
I
would,
you
know,
could
see
having
that
headline,
and
this
is
not
the
fault
of
the
current
trust
right.
E
The
trust
has
been
around
for
a
long
time.
This
should
have
actually
been
published
with
the
creation
of
the
trust.
It's
part
of
the
founding
agreement.
It's
just
never
been
done
and
I
think
that
sort
of
makes
it
a
little
bit
difficult,
because
if
we
had
that
right,
that
would
have
probably
been
the
document
that
I
had
read
and
I
said
an
understanding
of
what
the
expectations
should
have
been
on
my
side
next
slide
right.
E
E
Maybe
you
know
presenting
or
emailing
our
information
a
bit
more
freely
and
and
that
email
is
cheap,
right
and
I.
Think
you
know
I've
discussed
this
a
bit
with
parts
of
the
trust
and
often
there's
nothing
to
report
right,
and
we
can
have
an
argument
about
whether
sending
an
email
that
says
nothing
new
over
here
is
really
all
that
useful.
E
Maybe
of
the
French
opinion
that
that's
still
useful,
so
I
know
nothing
is
going
on
and
likewise
right,
the
LLC
office
hours
that
I
go
to
as
a
as
a
board
member.
Rarely
people
show
up
so
it
often
feels
like
you
know.
Why
do
we
have
them?
I
still
think
it's
important
to
schedule
them
just
in
case
right
and
I
think
that
I
want
to
suggest
that
the
Trust
might
do
the
same
thing
next
slide.
E
E
It's
currently
an
individual
document
from
from
me
and
Russ,
right
and
and
but
the
questions
are,
this
is
even
useful
document
to
try
to
produce,
you
know
is,
is
the
in
and
if
it
is
right,
it's
a
current
document,
the
current
content,
even
a
good
starting
point,
or
if
you
know
we
want
to
have
a
document
like
this,
should
it
start
from
somewhere
else
and
the
thing
I
didn't
put
on.
There
is
right.
You
know,
I
can
say
how
many
times
I
want
that
I'm.
You
know
doing
this
as
an
individual.
E
G
Keeping
in
mind
that
I
am
no
longer
a
trustee,
it's
about
halfway
through
the
process
they
have
filed
the
incorporation
papers
with
the
state
of
Delaware.
There
is
some
minor
glitch
where
the
state
of
Delaware
says.
No
trust
is
a
magic
word,
so
you
have
to
call
yourself
the
ietf
intellectual
property
Corporation
or
something
like
that,
and
so
the
next
step
is
to
go
to
the
IRS
and
re
and
reconstitute
the
tax
exemption,
which
is
which
is
administratively
straightforward,
but
they're
totally
backed
up
and
then
once
they
do.
C
H
H
E
Ask
your
clarification
followers,
so
so
you
saying
that
do
you,
so
this
tries
to
set
the
expectations
from
the
ITF
Community
perspective.
Do
you
think
this
should
be
broader
and
talk
about
expectations
of
other
stakeholders
that
have
their
Assets
in
the
trust,
because
that
would
be,
for
example,
the
Ayana
right.
H
So
I
think
your
document
isn't
as
clear
about
that
scope,
as
you
may
think.
It
is
if,
and
the
first
suggestion
to
have
it-
be
the
trust
that
runs
this,
although
it's
bearing
tying
a
burden
to
their
backs,
they
may
not
want
means
that
they
could
open
it
up
to
the
full
set
of
stakeholders
if
they
wanted
to.
If,
if
you
want
to
limit
it
to
the
ihf's
expectations,
some
of
your
document
has
to
go
so,
for
example,
you
currently
have
in
your
document
that
you
think
the
ietf
ought
to
be
the
one.
H
E
That
sort
of
I
think
because
the
the
I,
the
trust
is,
is
mostly
holding
the
iitf
IPR
and
it's
it's
calling
itself
the
iitf
trust
for
probably
for
that
reason,
and
in
the
Ayana
assets
were
added
sort
of
as
an
afterthought
in
the
wrinkle
of
the
you
know,
this
better
than
I
do
yeah,
but
I
think
therefore
right.
It's
the
ITF
community's
sort
of
obligation
to
fund
it
and
and
if
the
trust
requires
a
diversity
of
funding
to
land
in
their
accounts.
That
is
fully
fine
and
understood.
H
So
let
me
let
me
go
back
to
the
very
beginning
and
say
I'm
not
wearing
any
hats,
because
that
lets
me
put
on
a
hat
for
a
moment.
I
have
in
previous
Jobs,
been
one
of
the
people
who
went
and
got
money
from
my
company
to
give
to
the
trust
and
there
I
don't
think
there
was
any
confusion
about
which
one
was
the
trust
or
which
one
was
ietf
the
standards
development
organization,
but
partially
because
there
were
somebody
sitting
there
to
explain
it
to
them.
H
So
if
your
argument
is
that
members
of
the
ietf
community
ought
to
do
that,
I'm
totally
in
agreement
with
you,
that's
not
how
I
read
your
document
right
now
and
I
think
the
dispatch
problem
we're
trying
to
deal
with
is
who
has
to
answer
that
question
and
I
think
the
community
that
has
to
answer
that
question
is
big
enough.
That
I
would
not
argue
for
ad
sponsored
I
would
say
either
the
trust
needs
to
do
it
as
across
stakeholders
or
if
the
ITF
needs
to
do
it
for
itself.
H
What
it
can
say
is,
and
we
encourage
any
member
of
the
iitf
community.
Who's
got
some
Pocket
Change
to
to
put
that
pocket
change
to
a
good
cause
by
helping
out
the
trust
and
contributing
to
their
public
support.
That's
a
cool
thing
for
us
to
do
for
a
a
related
organization,
but
we
have
to
do
it
recognizing
that
it
is
an
independent
organization
and
must
remain
so.
E
E
You
understand
the
difference
as
we
go
further
from
the
ietf
I'm,
not
sure
this
is
true
and
I
also
think
that
the
community
expressed
that
they
expect
the
ITF
LLC
fundraiser
to
fundraise
for
the
broader
ITF
and
we
you
know,
I
mean
this
is
a
discussion
that
we
have
differences
of
opinion
on
and
that's
reasonable.
But
yes,
it's
a
it's
a
wrinkle
in
this,
where
it's
my
opinion
and
if
that's
not
carried
by
the
community,
it
will
need
to
change.
H
E
The
public
support
yes.
Well,
maybe
my
I
try
to
be
subtle
in
my
rewarding,
but
so
I
I
believe
it
is
on
the
IHF
LLC
or
the
iitf
community
to
orchestrate
a
stream
of
funding
that
arrives
at
the
trust
in
a
way
that
lets
them
pass
the
test.
And
if
that
means
it
needs
to
go
there
directly,
that's
what
it
means
right,
but
it
is
still
I
think
the
obligation
of
the
iitf
LLC
to
make
that
happen.
So
it
doesn't
interfere
with
the
broader
fundraising
that
we
do
for
the
organization
and
for
the
meetings
Okay.
H
I
I'm
just
going
to
go
back
to
the
dispatch
question,
because
there's
a
long
line
here,
I
think
this.
This
level
of
Rat
holding
right
away
indicates
to
me
you
you
need
a
a
working
group
or
an
ITF
trust
mailing
list
for
those
of
us
who
actually
want
to
go
play
with
the
rats
to
go
talk
in
that
doing
it
in
any
existing
list
is
probably
not
going
to
work.
Thank.
G
I
am
back
yeah
and
again
I'm,
not
a
trustee,
but
I
was
a
trustee
for
six
years
and
when
I
look
at
this
document,
I
see
a
lot
of.
It
is
perfectly
fine
like,
and
it's
just
it's
sort
of
minor
administrative
oversights
that
are
easy
to
fix,
like
the
reason
that
there
is
no
expense
reimbursement
policy.
Is
that
they've
never
reimbursed
in
expense,
so
yeah,
but
that's
easy
to
fix.
Some
of
it
is
just
weird
like
the
thing
about
the
high
security
module
is
there
is
no
high
security
module
it
never
wasn't.
G
So
the
point
of
3978
and
the
point
of
the
trust
is
basically
we
have
this
foul
swamp
here
and
then
we
built
a
dyke,
okay
and
everything.
Since
we
built
the
dike
since
3978
everything
since
then,
we
have
the
rights
and
the
rights
are
what
the
rights
are.
What
the
rfcs
say,
you
know
an
hrfc
you
apply.
Correct
applies,
okay,
members
of
stuff.
G
Before
that,
as
Joel
said,
we
made
some
effort
to
go
back
to
Old
authors
and
and
have
them
give
his
licenses,
and
we
have
since
discovered
that
the
that
our
executive
director
was
kind
of
sloppy
about
that,
and
it
would
make
sense
to
go
back
to
the
people.
We
can
still
find
and
say:
could
you
could
you
redo
redo
those
licenses?
But
beyond
that
I
mean
like.
G
G
No,
we
did
write
it
down
it's
in
the
it's
in
the
rfcs,
okay,
but
I.
Think
yeah
a
non-normative,
descriptive
document
about
how
this
allowed
I
mean
we're
the
only
sdo
in
the
world
where
you
can
show
up
and
write
and
write
text
that
ends
up
in
a
standards
document
everywhere
else.
You
need
to
sign
contracts
and
have
your
lawyers,
lawyers
approve
it.
So
I
think
you
know
so.
G
My
advice
is
this
is
fixable
with
advice
that
has
sort
of
sort
of
to
separate
the
the
fix
the
process
stuff
versus
stay
away
from
stuff
that
could
get
us
into
legal
trouble
and
then
a
separate
thing
could
be
used.
I
think
would
be
useful
to
say
how
how
our
process
enables
the
ietf
to
work
in
its
unique
way.
G
E
Of
the
trust
that
we
have,
the
the
the
process
is
very
streamlined,
there's
an
automatic
intake
and
an
automatic
copyright
that
goes
back,
and
so
that
is
all
great
yeah
right.
The
the
I
think
sort
of
it
might
be
sort
of
a
misunderstanding
of
my
part,
but
when
I
read
the
words
asset
registry,
so
what
I
think
we
have
at
the
moment
is
an
asset
type
registry.
E
But
it's
not
an
actual
register
where
you
see
what
is
in
it,
but
then
I
had
a
discussion
earlier
with
some
other
trustees,
where,
like
I,
asked
for
like
as
examples
where
the
badges
right
and
it
turns
out
that
the
the
list
of
badges
is
actually
on
an
ietf.org
website,
and
if
that
is
the,
if
that
is
the
register,
that
the
trust
is
using
to
keep
track
of
the
badges.
That
should
be
reflected
by
the
trust
so
that
the
ITF
knows
that
you
are
charging
us
with
keeping
that
list
current,
and
we
will
do
so.
I
G
E
That
is,
that
is
a
fun
thing
and
and
I
fully
agree
that
the
the
trust
has
immensely
improved
over
the
last
few
years.
Right
and
maybe
I
should
have
said
that
in
a
document
but
I
will
say
it
now
right,
I'm
I'm,
not
at
all
saying
that
the
trajectory
hasn't
been
incredibly
good
going.
You
know
forward
from
the
last
few
years
right
point
of
order.
Yep.
G
I
hear
you
know,
and
and
I
think
we
need
this
other
document.
That
is,
you
know.
I
would
not
call
it
iatf
licenses
For
Dummies,
but
something
like
that,
would
you
call
it
operational
guidelines
for
Asset
Management
yeah?
Well,
the
only
reason
I
couldn't
use
for
dummies
is
I.
Don't
think
my
I,
don't
think
my
publisher
would
license
me.
The
trademark
Leslie.
K
Leslie
Daigle
and
in
the
delightful
position
of
not
wearing
any
hats,
not
having
any
hats
to
wear
at
this
point,
however,
comma,
the
less
slightly
less
delightful
position
of
not
only
having
been
on
the
trust
when
it
was
first
formed,
but
also
knowing
why
it
was
created
so
on
and
so
forth.
The
but
the
the
thing
that
I
wanted
to
say
was
largely
I
agree
with
Ted's
points.
K
So
if
you
want
to
move
forward
with
this
document,
I
think
it
is
absolutely
100,
within
the
scope
for
the
ietf
to
be
discussing
a
document
about
what
the
ietf
needs
from
the
management
of
its
of
the
the
material
it's
handled
by
its
trust,
I
think
anything
that
that
is
an
opinion
or
a
perspective
on
how
it's
operating
is
out.
We.
This
is
not
the
venue
to
have
those
discussions,
and
you
know
you
need
a
litmus
test.
Would
you
be
standing
here
saying?
K
K
E
L
I
guess
I
don't
have
to
announce
my
name
now
right
this,
so
even
before
the
discussion
that
the
car
at
the
mic
before
I
looked
at
the
document
and
the
title
and
I'm
like
no.
This
really
needs
a
working
group
to
actually
that's
the
mechanism
by
which
we
really
get
ITF
consensus
and
the
other
arguments
that
people
have
made
Ted
Leslie
and
someone
John
reinforce
that
opinion.
So
yeah,
let's
spin
up
a
working
group
under
gen
I,
don't
care
so.
E
J
E
M
I'm
Glenn,
Dean
and
I
am
the
current
ITF
trust
chair,
and
that
puts
me
into
a
weird
position
of
seeing
the
inside
and
the
outside
and
but
a
couple
points.
First
of
all,
one
of
the
points
you
made
was:
we
don't
do
office
hours
that
has
been
fixed
in
itf150.
We
have
office
hours,
they
are
Thursday
at
1
to
2
p.m.
Please
show
up
I
used
to
do
office
hours
when
I
was
on
the
LLC.
M
M
It's
we've
had
a
grand
history,
you
know
a
lot
of
people,
don't
realize
the
trust
was
created
in
2005
and
because
you
know
we've
had
people
come
and
go
through
the
ioc
and
a
lot
of
other
people.
There's
a
lot
of
Trustees
have
been
out
there
and
we
got
a
grand
tradition
of
people
being
part
of
the
community
and
helping
there
I
wanted
to
clarify
one
thing.
You
said
Lars
and
you
said
that
the
trust
holds
assets
like
or
it
holds
like
pictures
and
stuff.
Technically,
we
don't
actually
hold
the
pictures.
M
They're
managed
by
whoever.
Just
like
the
data
tracker
manages
all
the
drafts.
We
hold
the
rights
to
them,
not
the
assets,
so
we're
not
in
charge
with
of
physically,
storing
or
making
available
the
assets,
we're
in
charge
of
holding
the
rights
and
then
managing
the
licenses
by
which
those
assets
are
used
legally.
J
Picture
has
a
different
appointment.
He
mentioned
this
morning.
Kathleen
is
not
here,
so
Stefan
Wenger,
currently
still
sitting
trusty
for
the
isg
one
request
here.
That
would
be
I.
Think
it's
inadequate,
as
it
was
already
pointed
out,
to
go
too
deep
into
the
content
of
this
document.
If
we
were
I
would
recuse
myself,
because
this
document,
unfortunately,
and
certainly
without
bad
intentions,
includes
statements
where
I
would
be
uncomfortable
to
comment
in
public
on
because
of
the
personal
liability
I
have
being
a
trustee
yeah.
J
There
is
stuff
in
there
that
sharp
lawyer
could
perhaps
interpret
as
me
not
doing
my
job,
and
that
would
not
be
something.
I
would
want
to
comment
on
at
all
right.
So
please,
foreign,
let's
not
continue
substantial
this
discussion
about
this
thing.
As
for
the
real
question
here,
what
we
are
to
do
with
this
document
I
would
suggest
this
or
to
be
fairly
heavyweight.
If
you
really
want
to
continue
with
it
a.
N
J
Heavyweight
meaning
working
group-
perhaps
something
like
that,
perhaps
with
official
liaison
over
to
the
other
stakeholders
in
the
in
the
trust
that
are
not
part
of
the
iitf
organization,
even
if
they
are
informal
channels
and
I
know
that
this
is
not
the
way
the
ITF
normally
works,
but
in
this
particular
case,
I
would
rather
suggest
doing
something
rather
heavy
weight.
The
alternative
is
not
to
do
anything
about
it
and,
quite
frankly,
we're
not
we're
not
deaf
yeah.
J
This
document
is
there
right
and
we
listen
to
it
and
frankly,
when
I
was
appointed,
the
advice
that
I
got
is
the
isg
doesn't
want
to
see
project
reports,
progress
reports,
don't
send
us
anything,
don't
waste
time
on
the
plenaries.
Don't
do
all
that
stuff
right
now.
We
have
now
a
different
story.
That's
fine!
We
can
adjust
to
it.
J
E
J
I
Sorry
I
didn't
read
this
when
you
sent
it
to
me
before
that's
number
one.
What
I
know
number
two
is
that
I
think
so.
I
agree
with
the
people
who
have
said
I
think
you
need
a
working
group
for
this.
Also,
sorry
and
but
part
of
the
reason
also
is
because
I
think
the
Ina
IPR
agreement
requires
actual
formal
communication
through
the
ccg,
because
this
would
touch
on
things
that
are
implicated
by
that
agreement.
That's
just
my
opinion.
I
Having
been
involved
in
the
drafting
of
that
agreement,
so
I
I
just
think
it's
for
the
purposes
of
maintaining
good
relations
with
the
communities
involved
in
the
other
assets.
I
think
you
would
want
it
to
be
kind
of
buttoned
up
process
and
not
like
let's
hand
it
to
somebody
and
do
it
a
d
sponsored
I,
think
and
I
guess.
I
This
is
maybe
just
the
last
thing
is
that
I
think
part
of
the
some
of
the
things
that
you
point
out
reflect
a
long-standing
greater
need
for
more
administrative
support
for
the
iitf,
trust
and
I.
Think
that
maybe
it's
not
lacking
anymore,
but
it
was
for
many
years
of
its
existence
and
and
that's
I,
think
we're
seeing
the
vestiges
of
some
of
that
sort
of
under
investment.
I
And
you
know
I
was
one
of
the
people
who
really
thought
that
having
the
trust
assets
moved
to
the
ITF
LLC
would
that
that
would
have
kind
of
killed
two
birds
with
one
stone
and
it's
it's
too
bad
that
we're
not
going
down
that
path.
I
also,
it
would
have
also
you
wouldn't
have
had
to
think
about
the
funding
problem
either.
I
But
now
you
do
so
that
that's
just
an
observation
that
you
know
it's
good
to
get
the
communities
requirements
documented,
but
having
the
operational
processes
which
are
documented
separately
and
and
manifest
separately
in
the
trust
itself.
I
think
is
actually
the
more,
not
necessarily
the
more
important
piece
but
an
equally
important
piece
of
fixing.
Some
of
the
issues
that
you
identified
thank.
E
O
Hi
so
I'm
I'm,
one
of
the
I,
think
many
former
trustees
here
too
I
think
I
agreed
a
lot
with
what
Leslie
said
that
you
know
if
this
is
a
communication
from
the
IHF
to
the
trust
about
what
it
needs
and
perhaps
isn't
getting
now,
or
it
thinks
something
like
that.
I
think
that's
good,
but
I'm
I'm,
not
sure.
If
this
having
the
itaf
tell
the
trust
it
needs
to
do
things
differently
would
be
the
right
thing,
I
think
that
will
get
very
complicated
really
quickly.
O
M
Either
glendeen
again
I
just
wanted
to
just
for
people
in
the
room
just
to
know,
we've
talked
a
lot
about
the
funding
thing
and
it's
not
like
we're
ignoring
it,
we're
having
active
conversations
between
the
trust
and
the
LLC
we're
trying
to
figure
it
out.
We
got
tax
lawyers
looking
at
things.
People
who
know
these
rules
very
really
well
are
advising
all
of
us
and
we're
trying
to
figure
it
out.
M
So
I
think
that's
a
really
good
sign
that
we're
working
well
together,
because
you
know
we
identified
there's
a
concern
and
a
worry
and
we're
working
together,
but
I
will
say:
I
I
do
think
that
we
did
suffer
greatly
during
covet
because
you
know
if
you,
if
you
look
at
the
Timeline,
we
did
iasa
all
the
new
Isa
sort
of
restructuring
really
took
place.
March
2019.,
we
had
you
know
one
meeting
where
we
all
got
recognized:
hey
we're
all
going
to
do
hats.
M
We
had
two
meetings
that
we
sort
of
said:
okay,
we're
wearing
the
Hat,
we're
interact
with
everybody,
and
then
we
had
no
more
in-person
meetings
and
I.
Think
that
we're
some
rough
edges
there
got
created
just
because
we
couldn't
see
each
other
and
one
of
the
things
I
found
really
helpful
this
week.
This
is
because
I
was
in
my
hotel
room
sick
with
covid
at
itf-14.
I
didn't
get
to
see
anybody,
even
though
I
was
at
the
ITF
Hotel.
It's
really
been
wonderful.
M
E
I
agree,
and
also
the
the
I
mentioned
before
this.
This
is
I'll,
be
structuring
that
there's
no
Personnel
overlap
anymore.
Kovit
certainly
magnified
the
impact
of
that
because
we
couldn't
even
like
meet
each
other
in
the
bar
like
it.
There
was
always
an
informal
way
to
chat
that
was
sort
of
taken
out,
and
then
you
know,
everybody
was
scrambling
to
just
get
their
work
done
in
their
immediate
circle,
like
in
the
ISU
or
the
LLC
board,
or
the
trust
right,
and
you
can't
really
take
on
social
chats
over
Zoom.
M
You
can't
and
I
also
like
highly
there's
another
point.
I
want
to
make
and
I
forgot
sorry,
which
was
one
of
the
things
that
happened
in
iso2.
Is
the
IAD
world
went
away
because
we
now
have
a
different
role
for
that,
but
the
idea
used
to
be
on
the
trust
and
they
used
to
provide
a
lot
of
administrative
support
and,
as
the
trust
chair,
one
of
my
first
challenges
was
gee.
How
much
of
this
work
am
I
going
to
take
on
and
how
much
of
this
work
can
I?
E
E
E
K
So
my
previous
comments
were
addressed
to
you
on
the
topic
of
this
particular
document
that
I
felt
I
wanted
to
reinforce
some
points
in
the
context
of
your
role
as
the
ITF
chair
and
anything.
The
ITF
May
care
to
take
on
is
work.
I.
Think
the
discussion
about
whether
or
not
there's
a
light
working
group
or
a
heavy
working
group
is
really
teetering
on
the
edge
of
whether
people
are
going
to
talk
about
what
the
ietf
needs
to
have
from
whatever
manages
its
trust
assets
versus
If.
People
really
want
to
dig
in.
K
K
E
So
doesn't
there's
nothing
about
restructuring
in
this
right
and
the
the
financial
thing
I
left
at
a
very
high
level,
specifically
because
I
I
basically
think
it
is
the
intention
of
the
ITF
community
that
we
want
to
see
our
trust
well,
funded,
right
and,
and
that
is
sort
of
the
you
know.
The
expectations,
not
only
the
expectation
that
the
community
has
on
the
trust.
But
it's
also
on
the
LLC
as
the
financial
and
legal
yeah.
K
K
C
Yeah
I'm
listening
to
this
conversation,
and
there
was
a
lot
of
times
there
was
this
word
informal
communication
and
it's
great.
We
should
all
sit
together
in
a
bar
and
drink
a
beer
and
like
make
sure
we
like
one
Community
but
I'm,
actually
I,
don't
want
to
rely
on
that
and
that's
what
what
has
shown
over
the
last
two
or
three
years
that
if
we
don't
have
these
informal
channels,
there's
something
missing.
So
that's
my
take
away
from
this
conversation.
C
So
this-
and
this
document
is,
is
a
is
an
outcome
out
of
this
problem
and
the
problem
I
think,
as
you
said,
existed
since
we
restructured
everything
else
and
forgot.
Maybe
some
angle
there,
so
I
I
think
I
would
like
a
work
in
group
to
work
on
on
that
problem,
not
only
for
your
document,
but
it's
maybe
a
slightly
broader
problem,
and
it's
not
like
it's
not
necessarily,
it's
not
like
how
they
trust
organize
itself.
E
But
as
somebody
who's
getting
increasingly
convinced
that
the
working
group
would
be
burning
a
lot
of
energy
and
and
maybe
come
up
with
something
so
I'm
wondering
if
a
pragmatic
solution
would
be
to
establish
some
form
of
informal
liaison
which
which
we
can
do
right,
we
just
need
to
agree
to
do
it.
And
we
don't
need
to
change
any
documents
to
do
that.
And.
C
C
E
When
the
LLC,
for
example,
could
just
state
that
we're
you
know
we're
charging
somebody
with
with
observing
the
the
trust
right
and
the
trust
could
do
the
opposite,
and
that
would
sort
of
be
something
like
a
liaison
right
where
you
have
people
that
sort
of
are
invited
to
the
meetings
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
Alyssa.
I
I
just
had
a
question
about
the
point
that
Stefan
raised
and
and
Leslie
pointed
to
around
the
personal
liability
of
the
trustees,
because
when
Stefan
was
talking
about
it,
I
was
assuming.
This
is
something
that
would
resolve
itself
with
the
incorporation
in
Delaware
and
therefore,
should
you
Charter
a
working
group
and
have
discussion
about
this.
After
that
point,
the
trustees
should
feel
completely
comfortable
participating
as
members
of
the
community,
but
then,
unless
it
was
talking
about
it,
it
sounded
like
that
wouldn't
be
the
case.
So
I
was
wanting
clarification
around
that.
J
You
that
yeah,
we
can
buy
insurance
in
that
case,
which
otherwise
we
can't
that
doesn't
that
doesn't
allow
us
just
to
be
careless
right,
of
course.
But
yes,
so
so
clearly,
my
personal
Comfort
level
will
go
up
by
several
notches.
The
second,
where
the
non-profit
Corporation
is
actually
active,
yeah
not
with
that
it
started,
but
that
that
basically
I
can
I
can
say
that
I
have
withdrawn
from
the
trust
and
not
a
trust
anymore,
or
that
whatever
I
say.
J
If
you
have
to
keep
the
Trust
on
the
books
for
a
few
years,
just
just
for
for
whatever
weird
reason
we
can
do
that
and
I
can
sit
there,
but
that
whatever
I
say
I,
don't
say
as
a
trust
is,
but
as
a
director
of
the
of
the
corporation.
So
sorry
for
jumping
the
cube,
I,
don't
I
think
that
may
have
been
have
been
helpful.
I
D
L
N
Jason
loving
good,
with
my
actual
sort
of
virtual
LC,
chair
hat
on
just
for
the
avoidance
of
any
doubt
like
if
people
think
that
this
draft
in
some
way
reflects
a
conflict
between
the
trust
and
the
LLC,
that's
not
the
case,
in
fact
we're
taking
advantage
of
the
fact
that
Glenn
is
not
sick.
This
week.
J
J
One
thing
before
we
start
another
right
and
that
one
thing
that's
going
on
and
has
been
going
on
for
a
year
is,
is
this:
is
this
restructuring
that's
well
on
its
way
that
will
be
finished
at
some
point
and
then
we
can
start
another
construction,
but
unless
someone
really
thinks
that
the
two
things
are
directly
interrelated,
which
is
not
what
I
heard
here,
let's
finish
one
project
first
before
we
tackle
the
next.
Thank
you
thanks.
D
Yeah
so
well,
I've
definitely
had
a
lot
of
interest
from
the
community
thanks
everyone
for
your
questions,
participation,
it
sounds
like
there's
a
call
generally
that
this
shouldn't
be
done
by
ad
solely
and
if
he
goes
forward,
would
need
a
working
group,
some
discussion,
or
else
the
document
can
change
in
either
case.
The
document
needs
a
revision
to
be
clear
on
what
is
and
isn't
out
of
scope
if
you
wanted
to
take
it
forward.
That's.
E
What
I
had
I
think
I
mean
this
was
helpful.
Thank
you
for
forcing
me
to
show
slides,
so
so
my
sort
of
takeaway
is
that
I
will
basically
let
this
live
for
a
while
and
and
so,
and
you
might
expect
I'm
around
all
week.
If
you
want
to
talk
to
me
about
any
of
this,
please
feel
free
I'll,
be
at
the
reception
tonight,
for
example
hanging
out
and
looking
at
art,
and
we
can
chat
personally
I.
E
Do
this
I,
probably
shouldn't,
have
read
the
written
the
document,
but
it
I
happen
to
have
notes
so
I'm,
basically
sort
of
letting
this
live
for
a
while,
so
that
we
can
all
like
have
a
think
or
something
and
chat
for
a
little
bit,
and
then
we
can
figure
out
if
there's
energy
to
do
something
or
if
not
doing
anything,
is
also
a
fine
thing
we'll
see.
But
thanks
for
the
feedback
and
I'll
see
you
of
course,.
M
L
M
D
Great
well,
thank
you
very
much
for
coming
to
present
and,
like
you
say,
a
good,
forcing
function
to
give
you
time
on
the
agenda
that
did
move
forward
considerably
faster
than
the
time
it
would
have
taken
on
the
mailing
list.
So
would
you
say
thanks
to
everyone
that
gave
your
opinion
and
your
view
thanks
for
keeping
the
conversation
productive
as
well,
and
we
do
have
some
Flex
time
and
time
for
any
other
business.
If
there's
anything,
anyone
would
like
to
bring
to
you
the
mic.
E
E
One
point
that
was
brought
up
during
this
last
call
discussion
that
there's
a
significant
number
of
people-
I
would
say
you
know
not
a
few,
but
but
quite
many
that
suggested
that
BCP
83
and
maybe
the
broader
moderation
mechanisms
and
process
that
we
use
in
the
iitf
for
our
participation
channels
need
a
rethink
right,
and
so,
if,
if
people
have
energy
to
take
that
on,
this
would
be
something
that
would
be
dispatched
here.
Right.
E
I
would
encourage
that
we,
if
we
start
that
we
start
with
a
bunch
of
people
that
maybe
met
in
a
bar
or
somewhere
else,
come
with
a
I
want
to
say
fully
fleshed
out
proposal,
but
at
least
something
that
can
be
read-
and
you
know
discussed
about
to
some
detail
rather
than
like
starting
with
an
email
or
something
like
that.
So
thank
you.
P
D
Great
secret:
well,
there
you
go,
that's
an
offer
from
Bron
he'll
be
in
the
bar
okay,
so
we're
five
minutes
left.
We
just
say
thank
you
thanks
again
to
Martin
for
co-chairing
and
to
Pete
for
all
your
service.
We
we
miss
you
up
here,
but
I
think
Martin
did
a
great
job
the
first
time.
So
thank
you
for
sharing
and
we'll
just
let
you
go
enjoy
your
break
thanks.
Everyone.