Internet Engineering Task Force IETF Tutorials, 24 Mar 2019

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From YouTube: Tutorial: How to Create an Internet-Draft Using XML or Markdown

Description

This tutorial (11:30-12:30 UTC on 24 March 2019) provided an overview of xml2rfc v3 and markdown, two tools available to create an Internet-Draft.

Slides for using xml:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-104-edu-sessf-how-to-create-an-internet-draft-using-xml-or-markdown-xml2rfc/

Slides for using markdown:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/slides-104-edu-sessf-how-to-create-an-internet-draft-using-xml-or-markdown-markdown/

A

Okay, it is 12:30 on the dot, so I'm going to go ahead and get started. I am Karen O'donoghue from the edgy team and we do tutorials currently on Sundays and at other teams at other times during the week. First of all, we there will be a survey at the end of this. We are really seriously interested in your feedback. So please take the survey, we're interested also in additional topics and volunteers for those topics and we're also interested in additional people that would like to help with the edge' team.

A

So if you are at all interested in this space, there's a lot of opportunity, a lot of things that people suggest that we should do that. We just don't have the resources to do so. I would I would love your help and the edgy team mailing list is now an open mailing list.

A

So you can actually just join it and start participating and with that the tutorial for this session, we have one on how to create an internet draft using an XML or a markdown, and we have matt miller to talk about the xml RFC stuff and we have Dan York to talk about the markdown. So thank you and have a good tutorial.

B

Thank you, Karen I'm, hoping everybody can hear me. Alright, alright, so hello, everybody as Karen said I'm matthew, miller and I'm here to talk about how to create a internet draft using xml to RFC.

B

So this tutorial overall we're going to go through we're gonna briefly highlight some of some of the various options that are available, but I'll be talking about xml to IRC and dan will be then be talking about, creating it with markdown and then, even though we'll have a dedicated area for questions at the end feel free to.

B

If you have something particular feel free to, let us know and well we'll try to explain so so the internet, the internet, the the overall process for good publishing your document here is you have your you, have your draft, whether it's working group or internet draft and submit to the isg go through the community process and get to the art to the editor. That's that's how you get things done, but obviously to get started. You need to know what it is that you're, creating and some of your options for how to do.

B

That here are there's obviously xml to RFC that we'll be talking about today, there's an cramdown which Dan will be talking about, but there's also m mark, there's also a few other options, whether it's with pan-pan doc likes in Roth or even a word, template and I believe I think I saw recently. Somebody has an Emacs mode to help out, but today we're talking about XML RC. What is it? Well, it's a tool. That'll generate your own.

B

It drafts that is those nrc's from an XML source file and there's a couple of vocabularies, some of you if you've written them before, if we can get it sense, who's who's written in XML draft before so Wow. Many of us right, so the formal most of you are probably familiar with the version two that there's now upcoming a version. Three, that's RFC, 79, 91, plus some updates that Henrik has been working on.

B

So this will take that XML file and be able to convert it to text or to an HTML PDF, even a fully expanded, and you can. You can either use it today through the website or download it yourself through Python.

B

Some good reasons to use this as it does create it in the right format. With the right boilerplate helps you get the formatting for your entries and be able to include them, and your in your cross references plus, you can get some outputs that are a little bit easier for for for us to read in whether it's HTML or PDF, and it also has some better support this latest. The v3 has support for non ASCII characters and SVG diagrams. So you can do all this with.

B

Obviously you can then pass this around this file around for comments. You got all your metadata in there, so you can. You can extract it back out or find these things and the RSC editor it. It simplifies their life. So now the xml to RFC tool is what you will use once you've written up your your text, in whatever editor you'd like to be able to do that conversion. The v3 is up at at this URL for the experimental version or you can download it again.

B

It's if you familiar with Python, you can pip install XML, RFC and run it with this. The v3 option, then, does all this v3 stuff we're about to talk about, there's place you can file bugs or whether it's the data, try the track tools or an email, or you can reach out to Henrik here. If you've got any particular questions, so the quick starts diet is you can use the tool online?

B

There's there's a couple options we'll be talking about in a bit that help you get started, so you can use the online ticket to get a source source document. There's number of citation libraries that will then help you cuz I mean I, don't think any of us have written something I'm, hope, I'm, not sure, I, pretty sure nobody here is written it completely from scratch, with no references.

B

And then you can use your favorite tool to do the editing and use the XML RFC in order to generate those outputs you can submit to the RFC to the data tracker. Yes,.

B

The what are the citation libraries so we'll go into that in a in a while, but there it's basically a very it's it's all the references you would normally put in a in an RFC for your other documents. It's a nice collection and easy way to use those.

B

Right so so, there's the command line to be able to generate a v3 from an existing v2 or you can use the web service and that will give you the the source XML you can use. Then, with your editor of choice, editing existing one. There are a couple of options to get started. If you have an existing internet draft text format, you can use the the ID 2 XML to do this conversion or there's Webster's a web service to do this, and that will take that format and and give you an XML file.

B

You can start start working from it's better if you've got an existing XML file, the the ID tool does the best to cam, but every once in a while there's some hiccups, so you'll have to go back and maybe clean some things up, make sure some references get correct, there's so there's the XML file. If you've got an XML file, you can do that conversion. If you got a markdown, you can use, you can run cramdown and update, and then you can do whatever updates. You need to do. Fred.

B

B

Do we have a visa.

B

Henrik, do is there I I, don't recall there is one in the. Is there an existing explicit DTD.

C

So that the schema for v3 cannot be expressed as an DTD, it exists as a relax. Ng schema as RNC or orangey files, and it's embedded in the distribution of XML tour of see ice can send either both of those to you separately.

C

If it's a fairly up-to-date editor, it should be able to take in the scheme in that form.

C

So if you're I assume that the follow-up question is because you're, not certain that your editor can handle a relax, ng schema is that right.

C

C

Okay, so if you, if your editor cannot take in the v3 schema, then go in the way you mentioned converting ev2 should work for the for the illustrations. I haven't tested using PNG, so I'm not going to say that it will work, but you'll I would recommend that you find a way and I've looked myself for tools to create SVG's free tools, and there are a number of them. So you shouldn't have to buy anything new, but if you want to work with SVG's, you will have to get some tools to to do it.

C

So you can't expect it to come out of nothing.

B

Right so there is a. There is a slide on this, but generally as long as you've kept them pretty simple and keep them black and white, then the conversion should work. So gradients are going to be a problem if there's really advanced, like essentially embedded images, that'll be a problem, but if they're, if they are paths boxes they they should generally, it should generally convert correctly.

B

B

Yes, so the XML RFC will take some steps to to render it correctly, as as an ascii at least that's why I think I saw and so that you will be in the in the in the internet draft and the HTML will come out with with a rendered image. I, don't recall, I, admit I, don't recall what looking at to see whether it was a PNG that it spat out or an SVG. Most all modern browsers can handle SVG natively.

B

B

All right so some other options for creating this. This XML file is again we'll have Dan, go over cramdown or there's M mark. So, if you're willing to start from from markdown- and there is a a creation, weather wizard- does spit out the the v2 format, so you'll need to go through through the the v2 to v3 conversion mentioned earlier to to work with that. But so there are some tools to help you get started so creating this internet draft obvious. So, as we said, we start with an existing file.

B

You make your your author element for yourself within your within your text. You'll you'll wrap your paragraphs around a tee or text element any any artwork you would put in there. You would wrap with that with an artwork element, source code with the source code element and citations with the NEX ref and we'll go over here soon. What those some details and the citation references, so one of the new things with the v3 format is support for non-ascii for unicode.

B

So here's an example of rendering jinwoo with both his asking information and his in chinese information, and so you could do this.

B

You can put these characters with this XML format and as long as you haven't done any as long as you use the utf-8 encoding for the XML document you can put in in the normal places, you would have put your author name organization, information, your email address, postal address and even reference titles and series information you can put in that Unicode information you can put in the Unicode characters and all of those elements have a heaven, have an ASCII attribute to put in the ASCII text for for rendering out for those that need the ASCII representation.

B

The ASCII representation helps with searching.

B

Not all of our tools are the greatest on on searching across all of Unicode correctly, so that helps with that helps with rendering in some places where you utf-8 may not be universally available. Yet the only other place is whenever you're putting the new the new system does. Allow you to put Unicode just about anywhere.

B

The one requirement is using the the you element that helps validate and be able to put in some additional information, such as you can put in your unicode string and be able to tell it I'd want to spit out I want to out pull move out. Port now put the Unicode representation plus the Unicode code points that would be relevant for that. So for anybody that that could point may, for whatever reason not render at least they still have the representation, just a description of the representation.

B

So you, the you element, is, is brand-new with v3 updates. So it's not in RFC 79 91 itself, but it is in the updates that Henrik has been working on and that so there's some details we can. We can point you towards.

B

So here is an updated author temple, as you can see, there's the normal value, the normal things we've been used to now, surname well, plus surname and full name all our ascii. But with these new ascii l, ascii attributes real put in the the ascii versions of whatever unicode values you have put in.

B

So, as we said, there's support for SVG diagrams here's one generated, probably from like something like plant, you, a mail that can spit out SVG's and, like you said so, you can use them. They need to be black-and-white images and a subset of this SVG tiny profile. They will be included in your HTML and PDF and, as I said, just all all current browsers know how to render these render these there's a couple ways. There's the the X include to actually put it into your internet draft source and ask you our equivalent.

B

You can add that but and one will be generated if, if it's not there, but you can't include it. If you think you can get that formatted better, our se, 79 96 has more tips on making use of SVG's within your within your drafts.

B

So also with the new with that comes up. Is new tech stylings. If you are familiar with semantic hTML, these should be pretty pretty familiar eeehm for italics, strong for bold tt, for your fixed width and seven sup for super and subscript and superscript sand. Here's an example of some renderings.

B

Also, new here is differentiated list type so before you might have been used to putting in lists and key elements in order to render out and having to do some fiddling with attributes. Now, there's differentiation between ordered lists, unordered lists and definition lists, so the or the the owner the ordered list. This is your normal with numbers or with letters.

B

There's also some some additional customization. You can do via that type out attribute on the o, L ul for unordered lists. So this is your normal bulleted lists. If you put empty equals true, then, instead of getting a bullet you will, you will get an indented line with that text and then the definition lists.

B

So often in your terms, if you got expanded definition terms, this is a good way to render here's the name of the term and here's here's the description for it and these elements, similar to as you would find an X in HTML, render out some of the other new elements. We have are a source code so, instead of using artwork, there is now a source code element that has a number of types that it supports.

B

Natively and if on request, I'm sure Henrik can can point us to any any additions there may be if others come up, it's a block quote. This is good for indenting quotes from if you're, quoting certain lines from other documents or other other things good way to put them in. In an aside again incidental texts like a warning, a call out a note gives you some more flexibility, I'm, putting these the things together in your document, so now references.

B

So this is where the citation libraries come in and listed here are a number of the existing citation libraries. If you ever go looking at any one of these, you will find them it's essentially, a directory of of xml files in each of those xml files essentially includes that reference element you would have put in by hand. So these are very handy, especially our cnred drafts actually I believe. All of these are essentially rendered for you, as these drafts are updated.

B

So there's not really a need to go back and keep continuously updating your your references manually in your draft as long as you're using the citation libraries. So here's some examples of making use of these references, so this is where the xref element comes in and you can put a target. As you can see, the targets are pretty much what you would have used.

B

They match what you will find in the citation libraries, so rfcs RFC and the number internet drafts start with I D and the name the draft and the version number at the end, and then I tripolis format and Zepps also have a similar thing. If you're doing anything with X and BP with those reference tags, you can do some customization.

B

So if you prefer to have numbered references instead of the named references, you can do that with the with a ref element and specify some ref sequels now, instead of its default, if you'd rather have names instead of these, if you'd rather have more familiar names rather than RFC numbers or unit draft names, there's a way to put in a display reference element that then you can essentially create an alias from your existing included references and say this now this this is now to this target. Instead of what was in the citation.

B

Also here is, and there's now, support for tables if you are familiar with semantic HTML. The table format here is is very similar and it's way for you to put a table in without having to resort to trying to get the trying to get the the ASCII art work lined up just right.

B

This also gives you better support in HTML and PDF outputs and here's an example of an HTML output, so some some do's and don'ts around this, so rather than hard coding, references and and the xref can be used for references even to your own sections, so you can instead of using instead of saying in section such-and-such of this of my of our of this document, you can put an xref to there yeah. You should also be using xrefs when pointing to other documents again with the X with the XML RFC tool. This will.

B

The output will do all the right things if, especially, if you've ever need to reorganize your document change its change, the outline, possibly you have to update some references. This will take care of those details for you.

B

The other thing is instead of using artwork, we shouldn't be with v3 instead of using artwork for your lists, or your tables. Artwork should just be used for the actual diagrams you're trying to put into your document. Instead, you should be using the the ordered list, honored list or definition lists or the tables table format instead now with all of this, especially for source code and sometimes with even with the artwork there's a need to do. You know if your this is an XML format.

B

Sometimes you need to be able to drop XML in or you need to drop characters that are special to XML C data. This is, if you've already been doing, XML v2, you've probably run into run into this C data is essentially an escape mechanism for XML. It will, then, let you put in anything between that angle bracket C data, a closing square brackets program, it angle bracket. You can put anything in there other than that square brackets program at angle bracket and that will be rendered as it is typed.

B

So you will, instead of seeing instead of you, getting some sort of weird error with an xref like in this example. You would see angle bracket ex-raf, close angle, so now that you've got some idea of what how to put these together, you can start putting your files to work, share the round for comments coop with your with your Co authors or editors or so, especially. If you use a some other code reviewing tool or document reviewing tool, it could be handy to be able to point back to lines.

B

You can upload your XML to the ID submission tool and it will, if you submit just the XML for mote, it should output the correct formats for X for the the text, the HTML, the PDF. Once your draft is approved for publication, the RFC editor would really like your XML format. It helps them get started very quickly and if you've been submitting it through, the data tracker they've already got it, and we said you can use these to render your euro net draft to HTML. So it's maybe possibly more accessible.

B

Some people there's a lot more functionality than we can cover in this tutorial, so you can always go out and try it as I said XML the RFC you can do with pip install read more in 79, 91 and level. It says document Henrik's, updates here and then for SVG's there's 76 79 96, there's frequently asked questions. If something's, not there, you can reach out to Henrik and he'll do his best to answer and there's a quick intro. It goes over this plus some some more details.

B

If you have any questions or suggestions for this part, you can ask now there's also the mailing list and the RFC editor or you can either reach out on that email address or visit them at their desk. This week and as Karen said, there is a survey we'd really like you to be able to take a.

B

D

I've been writing RFC's, at least as long as Freddy has so I can't claim complete ignorance. This process, however it it seems to me from what you've said that as we transition to version 3, if I'm someone who's got good editing tools which are dtt, dependence that, if I create version, 2 and then convert to version 3, as you suggested that I don't get any of the version. 3 features, including the ability to spend a lot of my time these days and internationalisation.

D

The ability is not asking characters which diverse and 2gqt reject so from what used to that I think I do more or less out of luck unless I learn, install and use a completely new set of tools. Is that correct.

B

You absolutely need use of the v3, then, unfortunately, that that is the case right now. Although Henrik he's going back and forth Eric's going to the mic and.

C

Reykjavik Ovitz, so I've been thinking. I, don't know how hard it will be to produce a DTD for tools that can't read. Then you are relax, ng schema, but it should be possible to add most of the new elements in DTD form. I as I said, I, don't know how much work it will be to try to convert a schema to something close that can be expressed this as a DTD, but I will actually make it. Try at that which should help both Fred Dan and John.

C

Keep current tools here.

D

It would be a big help it, so it's also big help for another reason, which is that, insofar as the RFC editor is planning on making the XML for whatever that means, the archival form. The continuing evolution of these new forms is, is potentially quite problematic and, and things which can be expressed with GT DS are, in that sense, probably Laura Kiely stable.

C

I'm Henrique again I'm, not an expert on on schema schema languages.

C

My understanding is that DTD is not used as much as relax, ng D stays, but anyway, I will make it right. One more thing.

C

For the v3 features you will need v3 language, but if you only want the v3 output you're perfectly fine continuing in v2, so you don't don't feel forced into v3 until you actually want to use the v3 features.

D

One additional question: when talking about non ASCII characters, the comment was made about handling utf-8. The difficulty is that properly rendering not ASCII characters, especially for complex scripts, requires a lot more than simply a handful utf-8. It requires specific and sometimes language, specific rendering tools has that been dealt with or are we still pretending that if we can simply put utf-8 up on the screen, reservations.

C

Henrique again, what XML is if the.

D

Question makes no sense: let's have an offline conversation, there's no time no makeup tutorial.

C

Sorry, but shortly what XML tariff RFC does today is to process everything as unicode, so any any conversion to utf-8 happens when the result is output, and I probably can look at whether additional things are needed there, but I need more information. If there is, if there are problems, I need to have them pointed out. Yeah.

D

Your question implies we should have an offline conversation. Thank you.

E

Joe from CDT be sure to check your tools guys and everybody relax ng should be widely supported unless you wrote it yourself, so it may just be pointing to a different schema and playing around like that, at least for the for the document. Definition.

F

So I'm gonna talk now about using markdown to create drafts. Let me ask a first question: how many people have used markdown to create a draft? Okay, how many people use markdown for other stuff, all right in other people? Okay, so basically the question is sort of wire. We talked about markdown and the answer is because, if you look at the text in the screen that text there is probably easier for most people, except for those in this room, okay, to be able to understand alright. So it's that's.

F

What markdown is it's a lightweight formatting language? It's been around for a bit since John, Gruber and Aaron Schwartz and Co created it first there. The goal is that it is a writing format. It's just a text file you're, just going in and writing stuff you've seen it used. Many of you will have seen agendas for working groups that are written in markdown here, etc. It looks something like this. You know using the number sign, hashtag octothorpe. What are we're going to call it for headings? The text you know dashes are bullets. All of that.

F

It's a very simple format like that. You could see how you could do a link. You put Square back. That's around the target text, you put parentheses around the the URL. It's all I mean this is how markdown is you just write this in a text file using any kind of editor or anything like that, and then you work with it. You know in RFC 77-64, which is about using markdown and design guidelines. Has this nice chart which sort of shows where markdown fits in in the formatting of things?

F

There are many different flavors, there's long discussions around John. Why John Gruber did not want markdown standardized in different ways and, as a result, there's a lot of different flavors out there in different forms. We're gonna talk specifically about one of them. You should know there is actually now an I in a registry for markdown variants, which has a number of different registrations inside of there. Rfc 77-64 talks about guidance on markdown, and it provides a good good reading, a good background about what it is.

F

What the tools are, what the pieces are in there to talk about, creating an internet draft you? Actually it's a two-step process. You write your draft in markdown and then you run it through some tool that generates XM, and then it actually goes through the XML to RFC tool. That Matt was just up here. Talking about so you're, just basically doing the first part to go and create the draft or to create the XML file you're using this as a way to get that XML file to use.

F

Now you don't actually have to edit that XML file, you can do everything in markdown. If your draft is, you know, relatively straightforward and not doing super complex things, but you do also. There are people, I know who use markdown as a way to generate the XML files which they then go and edit further using an XML, editor or some form.

F

There are a couple of different markdown tools that are out there: two of the ones that I know a number of people using are the one I'm going to talk about today, cramdown RFC, which is developed by a Karsten Borman who you'll see around here and another one called M mark and actually I just will say, I just discovered before puddings up here that URL slightly wrong. He has a different repo now for where he's doing his updated code, but it's and mark is out there as well.

F

There are two different ways: they differ slightly in the way they provide. The header info and other stuff like that, but they're both out there so cramdown is, is a very simple tool to use. If you've got Ruby on your system or something or you know most operating systems, these days often have it installed in some form, you can just type gem install cramdown, RFC 2629. You might have to have root access or use sudo or something like that to go and install it. But once you do that, then the process is really simple.

F

You create a markdown file it just with whatever text editor you want to use, and you have it. You know end with MD or dot mkd, and then you run this this one simple command: KD, RFC, cramdown, RFC, KD, RFC and then the markdown file name, and that's it. It generates an XML file for you and it generates your text file for you. It has all of the you know appropriate formatting. You can submit directly from those files.

F

You can submit them directly into the data tracker, and this is and that's my tool chain when I'm creating stuff now is I. Just go and I write this file and markdown I do K, DRC and then I just upload those files you you can find more at this URL that's shown for for Carson's repo on github. He did. Let me know that if, for some reason your system does not have utf-8 support in it, it should these days, but if you're, somehow using an older system or something you may have unpredictable things.

F

If you put utf-8 into your markdown file, you just wanted me to let to warn people about that. You also can, if you want to just experiment with this or if your system doesn't support Ruby or something like that, you can also just go and use the the cramdown converter, that's on the tools experimental page. Basically, what you would just do is create your markdown file.

F

You can go to this experimental page, you can upload the file and then it will spit out the XML file, which then you would have to run through XML tar FC, so a little bit easier, in my opinion, to use it locally, but it is also possible to use the online tool it's out there so to work with it. It's based on something a variant of markdown called cramdown, which was developed by a Thomas Lightner.

F

If you want to see all of the syntax, you can go to that URL and it will show you you know all of the various different things you can do inside of the file. You begin your file with these three dashes and in the header uses Y mo. So you would just go and put something like this at the beginning, your title abbreviation all those kinds of things. If you want to incorporate references, you know like, as as Matt was talking about earlier, the syntax is really simple.

F

You just go inside the file and you say for a normative reference. You would just put the curly brace curly, brace exclamation point and in whatever it is, you want to have for the normative reference and in two closed curly braces to do it or to make an informative reference.

F

You would put a question mark instead of that, if you're referencing drafts, you do the same thing, you remove the word draft from the name and you put a capital I capital D dot whatever at the beginning, but you can just put those in there and then the cramdown, the K DRC tool will automatically pull the references and put it into its local cache and just build all that for you, so you don't have to get into doing. X includes or any other different pieces like that.

F

You just put that put it in quite like that.

F

There's a lot of references out there there's a lot of pieces that you can go and find examples that are around there. um I have a tutorial repo that has some examples there. Martin Thompson also has a lengthy get repo that has all sorts of tools for getting started, and he has a variety of different kinds of drafts and features that are there and he works with both the crammed. The crammed down in the EM mark formats, so that was really all I was gonna. Show is talk about it's.

F

It's really that easy and I could talk a little bit more I can show a couple examples of people want, but markdowns a new tool, there's a number of new different tool chains that are being created that let us go and create these drafts. Very simply, you can embed some XML, some HTML inside of the files. If you want to do something more exam, more advanced and I, think that's really it to tell you that there's two RFC's you can look at one is about the repository one's about the design guidelines.

F

Carstens got this this repo up there with his tool. I have a repo with has this slide set and some of the other examples and examples that are out there. There is also a mailing list, RFC markdown, which a number of us are on, and people are very receptive to talking to you about different tools and things that are there and and there's a survey and that's it so questions all right.

G

Hi Alma today so I wish I had this plantation a month ago, before I did my first ID on markdown.

G

My experience is that it's pretty easy I must say you have to make your experiments, but there's one thing that made me suffer a lot was to enter all the references, because if you miss a single space in the reference, when you have to indent everything, if you have one character wrong, the Kramden RFC does not really tell you where exactly it is right. I could not find a way exactly right where to find it so I had 50, plus references. I can tell you.

G

It was very, very long to find exactly where it was so anyway. So, apart from that, yeah I wish I had this plantation before, because I learned a few things. So. Thank you very much. Thanks.

F

Yeah well Karstens here. Actually, if you want to not.

G

H

F

H

F

He's been in the hackathon, if you want to point out that to him he's very receptive to comments and feedback like this I would also say to one of the nice things with markdown. That I've found is that it makes it really.

F

It works really well, when you're, using a git repository to to collaborate with other people, because the insertions and the the diffs the ability to go and work with that is a whole lot easier than when you're working with xml and you wind up having to reflow stuff and things get in different pages and stuff on that line. So there's a comment: there 3g.

I

Oh yeah I think just a good question. You mentioned. There is alternative tool and well you said this is a preferred. Can you see why it's.

F

Not preferred it was a case of I. Just have a few minutes to talk here and so I was just using KD f, KD RFC. Is this a little bit easier in terms of just how you go and reference it? It's got this KD RFC command, it's very simple and mark you have to put a few more command line options on, but I many of my earlier drafts were written using m mark. The differences are not that much really just pick. One cool.

I

And one worsening I'll look at a tie, Anna! Well, it's not a practical registry Marisa and I marked down registering the difference between all these things, like you know, because.

H

I

I do write more down, sometimes I know there is like a basic and there is people try to make it better right, so yeah so yeah embrace extends. So it's that really important. So.

F

Let me back up a question. One thing would be to if you, as far as the tools go cram downs written in Ruby, available there and and Mark is written and go so there's partly a you know: language choice.

F

If you want to look at it or if you want to do anything with that or run it in different forms, they also the to diverge slightly in some of the syntax, like the references, Meek's code uses, I, think square brackets instead of angle braces and so there's a couple little differences inside of there, but it's really a question of which one you want to use that are there for those who want to install tools with out without doing all the install on your own system.

F

Paul Jones has created a docker image of Meeks set of tools, so that was another way to run that one easier. It's just you know you can experiment with either one as far as the registry I'm I was not directly involved with the creation of that or anything around that my understanding was it's created, primarily for other people and tools to be able to have some understanding of what the different variants are. So.

I

That's so today, but it's good to know that if you use one tool chain and switch, your text file wouldn't work. Correct.

F

I

F

Markdown right there's no standard, it's not standardized! You have to pick which variant you're, gonna use.

I

Just like, if you.

F

Use github flavored markdown for something yeah.

I

Mirjana flavors difference index and.

F

Rest also right the basics. They all support. You know john Gruber's original basics, but then they go on from there to do other different pieces, cool.

I

J

To come, I think. Well, we we had a comment, someone saying that you have to reference old. You have to put to all the reference in the header, but I don't think that's necessary. So you just put two brackets and right.

F

It's no in markdown, you don't have to go and put all the references in there. You can just put literal like in here in this example that I've shown here I'm not showing a reference on there. If you scroll down yeah just go down like there and the in this line to do introduction, more information can be found in blah. You can literally just reference the the draft or the RFC right in the text. You do not have to have your list of references. First.

B

F

Okay, Mike Bishop was saying you please it's a more recent addition.

B

G

I have a question as well right.

F

Sebastian we just let you come into the queue, but then you disappeared. So if you want to come back- oh maybe that's you. That's.

E

F

Right we'll get Sebastian here.

F

B

F

Well, so go ahead! Alright.

G

So I saw in the previous presentation that so there is a story moving from a version two to version 3, so I saw a lot of new vocabulary added or changed when we are in cramdown. I guess all of this is taken care of right already or when you produce from crown down to XML.

F

So go ahead: Henrik come on up.

B

C

Far as I know, nobody has adapted any of the markdown tools to work with, with version 3, yet I'm sure that that they will, but no.

C

Let's see, there's someone who has done work, some experimentation with with v3, and he also has a tool so I'm going to send a query, but currently I don't know of a tool that does we between Freud.

G

No, you have to ask two things to Caston one in space and yeah.

F

By my understanding was I think they're looking at you know, but I don't know if they definitely had that support. Yet other questions comments up somebody coming over here and Sebastian if you want to get back in the queue we'd be glad to have your question.

K

Thanks so much for these presentations, the point I wanted to make goes back to the first one when there are questions about SVG and how do you know your SVG is gonna be accepted, there's been a tool created called SVG check, which is for this purpose, which will compare it against the SVG set. That's been defined in RFC 796. This an SVG check is available right now from pi PI, so it's PI pi projects SVG check, but it will eventually be a web service.

K

So you could upload your XML file and I would tell you if your SVG is okay for the subset of tiny SVG, that's accepted or an individual SVG file, and it also attempts to correct your SVG to make it match that profile, and the other thing I was going to say was regarding the previous question. If anyone has updated their markdown tool to use the v3 vocabulary, I think in mark has started the work on that and it's on his is in mark page thanks.

F

Other questions or comments anything else, Oh.

L

F

Sebastian another try.

E

M

B

Here again, does yes, okay,.

F

We even see you yay.

M

I can see you guys did so great frustration, I'm, starting to write, rfcs and I've been playing around with these tools by martin thompson and that cramdown. I was wondering if there's a good reference to all the options and key words and values that, like there's a lot of things like, including snippets and I'm, not sure where to find those does that mention in there.

F

So I guess: there's there's two things one in the syntax of. Let me see where this. So, if you look at.

F

Carson's Carson's repo has some information in there and may have I. Don't know if he's got the exact list of features inside of there. The other piece is in Martin's thing: I put a put a URL down there for some of the features that are in there. That may be, where he's got more of it, there's a couple of other different drafts that that you could take a look at and also quite honestly, if you look at much of I think pretty much all of the drafts written in the quick working group.

F

These days are all.

L

F

Markdown and so in quick, if you look at those like pretty much all of that and I also believe the HDTV Biss working group is mostly all marked down as well. So if you look at those, you could see examples from their actual code of how they've gone and done that. That's also a great example of maybe another thing we could do with adding on some more to some more marked entity, tutorial Docs.

F

All right anything else, Sebastian no.

M

Thank you very much. I'll take a look at that. I guess: I've been looking at all these examples, especially from the dough group.

F

M

There any difference between the.

M

Sorry, I'm not sure what to call it, but you can submit for the extenders track under an area or you can submit an independent stream medic. Is there any difference in the mark count for that I'm. Seeing a lot of the examples from like the quick and HTTP and oh and they're all submitted under working groups? Is there a difference in markdown format that I would like not get from those examples? No.

F

I think the the format would be the same. It would just be in the header what you put for you know the working group for the stream or or whatever the piece would be, and if you want to do it, if you're looking at it for independent stream or something fire, one of us an email, and we can help. You find that if you, if you need to or put it on the RFC markdown list right.

M

N

Thank you sure.

F

Anything else yes question here so.

H

In general, I've been using markdown for all the other purposes, not for the IDE editing. The problem that I faced in general was adding comments to the document and there is no easy way of doing it. You have to use a stabilized XML format to add comments in the markdown itself, so I'm wondering there two questions that I have so in general. In XML we use the comment style, rice.

K

H

Same command style has to be applied in markdown as well. In the.

H

B

Markdown, ultimately, will take me it's a simplified format, but ultimately we'll take your XML or HTML and plop it in work where it can so you can I haven't tried this recently, but I believe I've myself have a markdown draft that I've put in comments using the XML comment brackets. So.

H

Can that be simplified I mean? Is it possible that it looks pretty weird and the other question that I have is.

B

That's fair. That's.

H

Go ahead, the other question that I have is: will those comments, be I mean the cramdown tool? I'm, not I've, not used that sorry to say, but will that tool in Corbett incorporate those comments in the XML as well? Or will it just discard those comments? Well, so.

F

I I, don't know, I think that's a third question for Carsten night he was gonna come actually but he's probably over at the hackathon working on.

B

Something there so check him, yeah III, believe I believe at one point it did I, don't know if it still does yeah. Okay, thank you sure.

F

F

All right, well then, Matt and I'll be around for a few more minutes and please do take the short survey and again, please join either the the RFC markdown list or the XML list. If you're interested in being involved with more of these tools and like we said Karsten Borman, is the author of cramdown he's here, I, don't know whether Meeks here but I've, seen Karsten around anyway and he'd be glad to talk to you about tools all right. Thank you very much.

N

And I'll make bishop I'll point out.

K

N

I'm doing a tutorial specifically on the ID template in the next time slot, and it's downstairs yes,.

F

If you'd like to go there and see how the ID template works with github and other pieces, please go follow Mike and see you down there. Thank you all.

F

F