Internet Engineering Task Force Interim Meetings, 29 Mar 2022

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From YouTube: IETF-CELLAR-20220329-1900

Description

CELLAR meeting session at IETF
2022/03/29 1900

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting//proceedings/

A

Can your hair meet.

B

B

Good afternoon.

C

B

Michael said michael said he was coming along. um I did see. I did see him in person last week, so uh this is. uh That was a rare treat I'm here. He is not a hologram hi, michael hello,.

C

How's life: um no, I just got back yesterday.

C

Oh no we'll talk.

D

I'm just still I'm just still, um you know jet lag. That's all.

B

ah Excellent uh that that that that most people recover from eventually uh me too.

E

Talking about like thanksgiving.

B

So um for me to try to come up with something useful to do with my time. um Why? Yes,.

D

Why didn't isn't the link? There should be a hedge dog? Okay. Now there is there is there is now okay, it didn't didn't connect. I guess I had to log in first or something.

B

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry.

D

It's weird that it worked that way.

B

Yeah my my favorite thing with the weirdness uh from last week was me going to europe and finding all the websites I use every day suddenly needed my consent to uh do things.

B

You gotta lo, you gotta, love private, you gotta love privacy in america,.

F

They only do that in europe.

B

ha ha I helped them.

D

B

D

American websites can't be bothered to comply, so they um um a lot of them. Just don't allow um access from europe oh perfect, including the us government websites, uh apparently.

B

D

Anyway, apparently including the vaccination websites, that you need to download your form, so you can get back to the united states.

F

Hi very handy indeed,.

B

So so, are you telling me you're, you're jet lagged from flying home this past weekend or jet lagged from flying there? Two weeks ago I uh returned yesterday.

D

B

D

B

D

Basically, I mean there's only so many direct flights um to montreal and I didn't want to take an indirect flight because of.

D

The uh concern about the rules being different in different places and um and if I, while there was a direct flight on saturday, um it would be a direct flight which would then arrive in in montreal and I'd be unable to get back to ottawa uh because there isn't a train on saturday that late.

D

So I just like. Well just not do that. Oh my name is twice.

F

In the hedgehog.

B

Oh sorry, I'm asleep.

D

So, which heads.

B

It's been ugly, I'm using our normal one. I believe.

D

Well, okay, so you're using our normal one, as opposed to the one that's linked into the meat echo. What is the normal one? Can you put it in chat.

B

B

And I should be able to remember how to do chat uh because we were practicing just last week.

D

Notes, virtual okay, I got it.

B

Yeah uh now, since we're having this conversation, uh where does this one think.

D

Yeah, I put a link into it, pointing to the other one.

B

Are those not the same.

B

Oh, I'm sorry, you put a link in where.

D

So, in the one that's pointed to by, if you click on the note taking tool.

D

Right right, click on the note taking tool uh icon and you load it. You get a different hedge dock than the one you're using. So I just put a link to the one we're using in there.

D

Oh and the other hedgehog.

B

ah Excellent, we'll we'll figure this stuff out by next year at the latest.

B

And I'm not missing anybody christian, ah I think christian is a jabber user who has been logged in since we used uh our jabber room since uh for the uh meet echo or sorry for the uh media media over quick side meeting like in last summer.

B

Of course, they of course being a side meeting, they didn't have any place to take notes. So I did, I stupidly, did the right thing.

B

Anyway, um I've got about seven. After uh do we have a quorum to get started.

A

They didn't mention they would not come so I don't know if they're coming or not.

B

So you does anybody, think we need to be waiting or are we waiting for somebody critical.

F

David put in a item for the agenda. I suppose he there's something he wants to talk about. Don't know whether we should wait for that.

B

Why don't I reply to his email, real, quick and just say.

B

B

B

As he and he has not joined.

F

B

Okay, I'm hitting I'm hitting I'm hitting send in the email I just I just didn't want to have him joined while I was typing okay, so we may be doing.

B

Here's two items.

G

A

G

B

We can a little bit garbled, but not, but not bad.

A

And there's some equal.

B

And I'm putting I'm putting question marks uh at the front of these uh that he had asked for, and we will know to skip past those if he has not joined um okay, great.

B

Cool, so are we calling the meeting door? I guess and.

B

B

In the right place- and we have some attendees, so that's good uh draft meeting draft meeting minutes are from actually from february, because we had a very small group of people who were able to find the meeting last month. um Does anybody need to review those?

B

I believe they were posted to the mailing list.

A

I think it's okay.

B

Cool uh we'll do this no objections.

B

Excellent, our work group um documents that yeah that should probably be document status here then uh our our document status uh has not changed, um because I think several of the documents were waiting on things that we were going to talk about last month, um so that and then we're still waiting for uh ffv1-2.

B

Before we send anything to uh dispatch and we're still waiting for matraska to finish up before uh before, we do anything with a ebml updates on draft. um This is roughly the agenda that I had.

B

Come up with very quickly before, just before the uh just before the uh meeting, uh so that's kind of where we are now um so one of our one of our topics, which we've talked about uh from time to time on the mailing list um was whether flac should be uh standards track or informational, and uh I would like for us to go ahead and uh nail that down.

B

I'm not sure that I I I'm not sure that we've had a chance to close on that on the mailing list or sorry on in a uh an interim meeting.

B

So um where I think we are on this is that we were trying to figure out whether we were going to change the uh whether flack was informational or standards track at the last at the last meeting, and we talked we've talked about it a bit, but where I think we are right now is that we have decided not to uh change it to informational unless we needed to.

B

Does that sound about right with people.

D

I think that we need to merge the pull request from walton that fixed with to be founders track. The document right, sell, yeah.

B

So we just do need to push the push that pr yeah does anybody? Does anybody have the a body shares? Have a uh have a pr number handy.

F

B

Okay, great uh so we can say um close close for now.

B

um And thank thank you all for the discussion about that. That is actually something that sort of matters, especially with a document like flac, um see if we are skipping down to pushing uh matraska-09 and submitting it for a review to the higher powers, which is the best uh agenda item. I think I've ever typed in this working group did we have any discussion for that.

B

This was from an email.

B

Basically, suggesting this from.

A

B

A

uh Basically yeah, I finished all the merging everything I could resolving all the issues that were left about some, not very important things. There's only one issue left, that's unrelated, so I think it's okay to publish version nine. I was actually going to do it like two weeks ago, but the window to send xml5 was close for some reason.

A

So I waited. I did some other things and actually noticed some issues when generating the the code from the xml file we generate so our that was more fixes and now it's ready and it's compatible with everything that exists.

B

Cool, so we're ready to uh push that one.

A

Yes, so we can tag the version 9 and send the xml files on the whatever place. We send the documents.

C

A

I've never done it. They've did it before so.

B

If you, if you have any problems, give us a buzz um actually, if you want to do that on the call.

D

So the submissions, the submissions get closed. The submission system gets closed for two weeks prior to an ietf meeting, so we just which was last week. So that's why it was closed for most of march, but it opened again a week ago, like the beginning of the meeting it opens again, which is initially people were weird, but it's because people want to be able to do revisions based upon the the meetings that happen um immediately um so yeah.

D

So just be aware, you know we can let you know there's when the meetings are um but yeah, um so you actually should be able to. I think, with the make file there. I think you can do, there's a make submit or make publish or you can upload. You can just use a web interface to upload it to the data tracker.

A

D

I first I need.

A

To tag on github and from there it actually generates the xml file, which I just get it from there. Yeah.

B

A

I don't know if it's possible to create tags from the.

A

B

uh The only the only instructions I've ever seen about that we're doing it uh in uh in github and github and uh unix, or something the command line. Interface.

A

Yeah well I'll just do it with my usual software yeah sure do we should we also type codec and chat tags as well.

B

Well, let me let me let me ask one more question on this one and then uh go down to kodak and tags. um Michael.

B

This this document has not has not been through working group last call yet is that right.

D

You're talking about no all right, no, we have not done general working group last call on it. No.

B

Okay, so the higher power is our working group. Let's call I will. I will write that down. uh That's.

D

The next step, I think, that yeah, I think that we're we're there yeah.

B

um Because um seller has a uh in matraska, I have a uh fan club outside the ietf. uh Do we should we be announcing that uh anyplace? Besides the mailing list.

A

B

And that was that was a question.

A

Are you want, I don't know, uh should we send something to the mailing list or.

B

No, no, I'm not you're you're you're, fine right now, I'm just I'm just asking the next steps. So this next step is, we would say: uh has anybody in the working group got anything that they need to say about this draft before we request publication and send it to the area directors so yeah? So what I'm asking is?

B

Is there a reachable community that we should send a note to about that and you could just forward uh our last call now uh our working group last call email to them and say this. You know this is these are the dates, and this is when it's happening and stuff like that.

A

Well, as they said in the chat we can send on the metro schedule mailing list, although it's mostly dead, uh the fm pack developer list, which is the opposite of dead, it's way too busy. So it might be unnoticed and yeah. I don't know where else.

A

F

I think uh sending to the fm ffmpeg list would be fine but yeah, as you say, it's way too hot. Perhaps people will notice.

A

A

A

Did we lose people.

F

I think I think something happened with spencer.

H

I heard you steve, but spencer, number spencer,.

A

I almost don't understand anything you guys are saying, because I have horrible eco, like half a second, I get even what I say back and everything you say is twice.

D

Most of us are on mute, so that can only usually happen if someone's on not using a headset and is not not on mute so with with everyone, muted you're getting echo, then it's probably not. It's probably. I think it's.

A

More like a bug, because it's very precise, it's not like faded or anything, it's really clear, but it's twice and I have headphones reload.

A

I already changed to the ipad because the audio on my laptop was not working and it just did that.

A

A

A

I have no echo, but maybe you don't hear me now.

H

D

G

Okay, so what else we can.

D

Do here we lost spencer, quincy.

G

If shifted like uh three oak tufts down- oh that's even.

D

B

Mr came back muted, of course. I'm sorry, maybe.

G

I can reload.

A

B

No, no uh is anybody else. Hearing uh echoes.

D

B

Okay, cool so, and that that was uh just is it was that jerome.

H

B

Was it who was hearing the echoes? I'm sorry.

H

Steve was her.

B

Steve okay, thank you.

B

Cool um so where we, where we were on that, was uh me asking if um it was appropriate to do a working group. Last call for more than two weeks since we're asking for help outside the idf.

B

Michael does that sound right, so you say that again, please um we're doing working group last call which could be two weeks but we're asking for help outside the ietf.

D

Yeah, I think we should probably set it to four weeks just uh because of the the pace of things, um and um we should probably send a reminder after two weeks um and we might want to link a little bit because we're going to post this message outside the itf we might want to.

D

Post to something that says what this actually means right,.

B

B

And uh so okay sounds good, so, okay, um and so I think that takes us down to codec and tags.

F

And spencer, your screen is now isn't shared. You said the problem, was it intentional.

B

uh No, let me let me share something soon, as I remember how yes um this and uh yes, I guess I really want to share a screen, and I wanted to share that screen. Yes, okay, cool, okay, so that takes us down to uh codec and tags.

B

And there were a couple of there were a couple remarks about that uh further down in the thread about proper references to the renamed element and asv3 codec and tags have the new tw twdb2 tag?

B

um Does that do either? One of those points mean anything about needing to apply updates before publishing, codec and tags.

B

H

B

Yeah, you, uh oh no, I'm sorry go ahead.

H

Yeah, just no, I I I am not in position to to speak. So maybe the issue is steve steve. If you are still there yeah me.

F

B

uh He's showing offline, how weird.

B

I managed to totally nuke things and I don't quite know how I did that, but we'll talk have that conversation another time. um Okay,.

H

So we need him to to go back for answering this question.

B

Okay, let me ask, let me ask uh that question so the go ahead. I'm sorry.

H

No he's back: okay.

B

C

Steve, yes, so.

B

So uh I was looking at the first line and the minutes under published codec and tags, and I was asking if those items that were listed on that first bullet have a. uh If those are anything about updates that need to be applied before we would put out 008.

B

Steve are you hearing me okay,.

A

Okay, you missed the beginning. I have no way so it's okay! Well, it's perfect, perfect! Very well! So it's still there, but it's better.

B

Similar almost perfect, so did you hear the question uh whether we need to apply any more updates before we publish dash 8 for codec and tags.

A

I think the main issues is that they might expire soon, otherwise, there's very little changes since last time yeah. So we can't wait.

B

Well, uh there's.

A

B

Michael, would you like, would you like for them to be updated before they expire, or do you think it matters.

D

um If it's just a matter of a couple days, then just don't worry about it. um If it's, uh but I I mean I don't want to wait longer than that, I mean.

D

So don't don't don't.

E

D

Rushing's sake, but um let's not wait more than a week or something it makes it really hard for people to review documents when they're not there.

B

Also, true um is: is there any so if we're doing I, I guess, let me ask the other question: if we're doing working group last call on matraska, um will anybody want to refer to these documents during working group? Last call.

D

uh It would be better if they were all available, so people can see how things fit together, even if they're not looking at them.

B

Okay- uh and we are so I it would be so I think the right thing to do is to uh submit an update before they expire or soon after they expire, uh and I was just looking at the dates, but they they were something like you know, they're, something like the 10th of the month. You know of april, or something like that, and so you know the next week or so, and we are not working group less calling these two yet right or we haven't talked about it.

A

No, no! It's very. uh Why not very early but okay.

B

Okay, uh yeah, then definitely you could do that anytime. uh So we'll just we'll just publish these uh dash, eight, so they'll be available for uh metroscore reviewers.

B

A

Oh yeah, I think it went through.

B

H

um Can we go back to the mp4 registry sure.

B

um We put the little question marks out there. It's just just so. We remember.

H

That they must leave, but we I can talk about that also, so we we have a registration in the mp4 side, so there is an official registration.

H

So we would like to to add the codec id in the ffv-1 specification, so it would be a narrator okay.

E

H

Do we proceed about that and uh by the way I see that for avi we didn't say a codec id2?

H

There is no official support, so there is no official registration list for avi, but we use ffv1 codec id since the beginning in avi, and it is not in in the specification so maybe also to able to put that in the arata.

B

H

So what is the procedure to in order to to have a the error? There.

B

um You can either you can either send a note to uh the mailing list and ask me or michael to do it uh or go to the rc uh rc editor's website and uh and uh submit you know, submit there um either either either. One is fine with us and if you do it on the rc editor website for a working group document, um I we should get notification from that.

D

Yeah and if you send it what's all we're going to do, is go to the editor's website and submit it. So oh yeah.

C

H

So I I don't get it uh so we we upload a new version or no, we upload a difference or no.

D

We yeah, so um let me share my screen. There, spencer.

B

I am not sharing my screen anymore.

B

D

uh Yes, um so what happens? Is you go to the rrc editor website and you click on errata and it asks you for which one, for instance, I know this one has errata and um and then you you see what happens and so effectively what you're doing is you're entering a bunch of things and it says section says blah blah blah. It says this and it should say that and that's really yeah.

E

D

That's the only only uh part, so if you this was on um which, which rfc again.

D

This is on which one 87 94.- oh yes, 87.94,.

D

So you search for that now: 87 94.

B

This one's a 9043 isn't.

H

It ffv1 no, it's yes, f51 yeah.

B

Four three: four.

H

Yeah, sorry, nine, zero, four, four all right.

B

Yeah put it in for the right put it in for the right doc too. So.

H

B

We we just go to the fc.

H

Editor website and select errata and we suggest a narrator.

B

D

Yeah, okay, so you do 9043, there's nothing! You click on report, new errata, 904., three report, new errata, okay, uh report, new errata, and then you get a form to fill out. Basically, okay, okay, um sometimes there's an error in one of the formats. Only so you'd pick that you'd say which one, but it's probably just going to be text, and so technical errata means that we've made something. We said something wrong: okay, editorial means: we've typed something wrong.

C

Right so, okay.

H

It is not wrong, it is an addition, but uh yeah. It is.

D

Technical, that's technology; okay, a.

H

Technical machine, we forgot to say something then.

D

It's technical, so yeah.

H

D

In this case, you'd say original text and I would just put the text around what it is that you're trying to say and then corrected text. Just add that add whatever text you need into that piece and that's it and then there's the stupidest cap.

H

Okay, uh so what we do first, we will send a pull request on the ffv one web github repository, so it is accepted by everyone and then I uh we sent the errata either day. For me, okay, yeah.

B

Exactly and same same thing on the other one yeah.

D

Okay, I need to leave now. I have to go. Do some stuff for my kid before a store. Sto closes.

D

But um sorry about that, I'm gonna be off now: okay, cool.

C

Have a good one be safe, all right, bye,.

B

All right, okay, and uh so can I say, steve- is going to uh will enter errata.

B

And if that turns out to be the wrong thing to do, please let us know and we'll we'll fix it.

A

I did submit three documents and I will send a review to the mailing list. Okay, request for review.

B

Okay, excellent, perfect.

F

B

F

A related ques question more or less um flock isn't in the mp4 registry as well. Should the process be the same, so publish rfc, request addition to the mp4 registry and then publish in errata, or should we do that differently because flag isn't published yet flak.

H

Is not published, so we put it in specification directly yeah, as we did.

B

H

B

So so go ahead! I'm sorry.

H

If you check the uh ffv1 matrix ffv1 specification, I will send a link.

H

There is something about how to to store the format of a stream inside the container, so we can add such kind of text in flag also.

F

Yes, okay, but the uh this was specifically about the id one. Wasn't this the ffv.

H

uh Issue for ffv1 we have of mp4 registration.

E

H

Is better but for avi, for example, there is no public registration, so we just force it to everyone. So what we can do for flack is just to say: okay, everyone use this uh flak kodak id. So let's do, let's make it public in the specification. Okay, um we can see uh with mp4 registration. It is a long process because they are not responsible.

H

They don't respond immediately, but we can try to do the same thing.

H

For flak, but what we did for ffv1 asking for a public support from apple, because it is apple who managed to manage his register.

H

But first we we can still uh put that in the flag specification, as we did for everyone in matroska.

F

H

F

Car there is already an issue for uh what does it say, document mappings into containers, and there is already a working container, that's being it has been implemented in firefox and probably others I I think, ff and pack as well.

F

H

Is already a mapping, but well we can make it more or less official in the specification we do yes.

B

Okay, excellent and uh mike, am I capturing that correctly in the notes which you all might know if you're looking at the notes, but if you're not, then it would look like this.

H

I I found some links in the chat about what we do, what we did for ffv1 in metroska and then uh from mp4.

B

H

So there is no flag registration, but we will ask to the uh mp4 registration to to register a flag or kodak id.

B

B

Perfect um and so I'm just cutting and pasting that into the into the uh not there.

B

Cutting pasting out of the chat is a little bit weird, sometimes.

B

Equals yes and see: okay, perfect um and.

B

Lastly, I think that.

B

We've still got.

B

Do we lose dave.

H

Dave, that's not too quick.

H

Sorry, he needed it to leave. So it's no more! Okay!.

B

Okay, yeah so we'll we'll. uh We can leave this one for the next for next month. Right.

B

Here's his second action.

B

Okay- and um that gets us through all of our special agent items- and we still have 14 minutes, left just to uh help me out a little bit here. uh So we would not be having matraska discussion until uh after the end of working with last call at this point or are people gonna keep working on stuff.

A

Probably starting working on the codec or tags, maybe tags okay shorter to to do.

A

By the way, since I missed some of the talking the working group email, do you send it or do I have to send it wait, certainly.

B

Yeah, the chairs, the chairs, would send that. I think that's actually. I think that's actually built into the data tracker that the chairs see. So you know you can just let you know you so.

B

Let me open that, while we're still here well we're all here here, so I will not get uh terribly lost uh and forget things, so I've got a batroska-9 and excellent um cool, so I will. uh I will figure out what to do with that. Okay, but thank you, but thank you. Thank you guys for that excellent uh it'll take a little poking around with that. That's what they that's, what they pay us for, of course, right, um I'm kidding!

B

So um is there anything that we need to talk about on flack on this call.

B

Anymore, morgan.

F

Not sure there are a few issues, there are a few there's. There are two new issues: I've posted earlier today um that need a little discussion, but I'm not sure whether the working group should discuss in this or general people on the flock mailing list.

F

um I found two shortcomings in the flux specification points where the specification says. Nothing and various implementations have done things in a certain way.

F

And I think those need to be solved before the specification is finished, uh but there are the technical. So I I don't know uh who should decide on this.

B

The working group should have consensus right.

F

Yeah, I guess so. I guess.

B

No, I I promise you um I I only. I only laugh because I'm still jet-lagged um so can you give me the issue numbers for the notes? Yes,.

F

That's 145 and 146.

B

Perfect. Thank you. Okay,.

B

Cool and is there anything we need to say about the ffv1v4.

H

Oh, we can't keep it there's. No news, no update.

B

We have, we have the expression. No news is good news in english.

B

C

Not this time so I'll just leave, there's no news. Okay,.

H

C

H

Update or you can say, no update, okay.

C

H

B

E

Other questions will be needed for for this topic.

E

For for the ffv1 version, four, I think we need.

F

A

E

Time to discuss some.

A

E

In which we wish to go.

B

Okay, excellent: is there any other business.

A

H

B

You say going once going twice.

F

A

B

Excellent and uh if I'm not hearing any other things, we need to talk about right now. Thank you all for your uh diligence and hard work, and uh thank you for putting up for with me after the meat echo disaster in february, uh we're doing better, um and uh I look forward to seeing you all in april.

B

Okay, thank you all.

F

B

A good day, you, too, make good choices. I always forgot.