►
From YouTube: IETF-CELLAR-20220628-1900
Description
CELLAR meeting session at IETF
2022/06/28 1900
https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting//proceedings/
C
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A
It's
it's
mostly
to
set
expectations.
My
feeling
is,
if
you
said
to
me,
hey.
I
think
that
we're
gonna
finish
the
document
by
the
end
of
the
summer,
then
I'd
be
like
wow.
That's
pretty
actually
close
to
the
milestone.
So
you
know
that's
totally.
That
makes
sense,
if
you
say
say
well,
it's
going
to
be
the
end
of
the
year
before
we
finish
it,
then
I
would
update
the
my
milestone
just
to
set
expectations
right.
A
A
Yeah
martin,
do
you
do
you
need
I
mean
I'd,
be
totally
happy
to
spend
all
of
the
august
call
on
flack
issues
if
that's
required
or
important,
but
you
tell
us
right
it.
Maybe
you
don't
need
a
call,
maybe
you
don't
need
in
person
time
to
to
resolve
them,
but
if
that
you
know
if
the
day
before
you
say
that's
the
case,
then
we
can
totally
do
that.
C
C
A
A
There's
a
ripe
meeting
in
belgrade
that
I
will
likely
go
to
part
or
most
of
that
week
and
then
there's
a
net
dev,
which
is
totally
unrelated
to
anything.
You
might
have
heard
of
it's
a
linux
networking
stack
meeting
in
lisbon
that
they
scheduled
that
week,
but
my
plan
actually
was
to
show
off
on
friday
in
amsterdam.
E
A
A
So
my
intention
is
to
be
there
anyway
on
the
friday,
which
is
the
28th
and-
and
maybe
that
means
I'm
arriving
on
thursday
night
or
maybe
it's
friday
morning
early,
but
I
don't
know
yet.
I
haven't
made
any
I
haven't
made
any
I'd
rather
take
the
train
from
belgrade,
but
it's
a
two-day
event
to
do
that
so
and
they're
not
running
they're,
not
crossing
the
borders,
yet
they
don't
know
how
to
cross
borders
with
kovid
yet
again
yeah.
A
A
A
Yeah,
the
the
net
dev
was
usually
supposed
to
be
the
week
before
ietf
and
then
they
moved
it
two
weeks
before
ietf
and
it
was
supposed,
then
I
don't
know,
I
reminded
them
of
this
fact,
and
they
said,
oh,
I
think
we
screwed
up
but
anyway,
whatever
there,
you
go
all
right.
So,
let's
get
on
to
the
substantive
issues.
So
the
status
was
that
I'm
the
document
shepherd
and
what
I
did
is.
A
I
don't
think
I
have
any
problems
with
the
document
as
a
technical
specification
for
the
protocol
right
and
that
wasn't
my
goal
to
object
on
that.
All
I'm
really
trying
to
get
at
in
this
review
was
to
identify
things
that
are
going
to
be
problems
for
the
other
reviewers
and
the
isg
in
their
reading
of
it,
and
so
I
wrote
those
things
down
steve
I
think,
has
done
80
of
it
and
then
you
sent
an
email
a
couple
days
ago
with
some
of
the
issues
and
I'd
like
to
walk
through.
F
B
F
F
F
A
A
F
A
A
14
term,
both
of
them
are,
they
mean
the
same
thing.
They
mean
the
same
thing
and,
and
you
can
use
recommended
or
should
it
really
doesn't
matter
there,
but
what
I'm
saying
is
they
don't
have
any
there's?
No,
we
wouldn't
argue
whether
it
should
be
recommended,
or
should
they
mean
the
same
thing,
and
so
what
I'm
trying
to
say
is
that
if
you
write
should
or
recommended,
then
that
means
that
there's
some
scenario
in
which
maybe
there's
an
exception
right,
yeah.
A
All
the
time
too,
where
I
want
to
make
my
document
kind
of
future
proof
against
someone
deciding
something
something
new,
and
so
I
want
to
write,
should
all
the
time
and
I'm
almost
pretty
sure
that
it's
almost
all
the
time
that
that,
unless
you
can
document
an
exception,
you
should
you
must
write.
Must
you
should
write?
Must
so
that's
all
I'm
trying
to
say
this
is
one
of
those
things
where
the
reviewers
will
go
through
and
they
will
ask
you
know
what
are
the
exceptions
to
the
shoulds,
and
so
that's
it.
A
So
so
anyway,
in
this
case,
we're
talking
about
meta,
seek,
it
cannot
be
a
must
because
it's
not
usable
in
a
live
stream.
So
I
think
that's
all
right
I
mean:
if
medicine
is
you
should
use
or
medica
is
recommended
unless
it's
a
live
stream
stream,
and
I
think
that's
just
fine-
you
can
also
have
conditional
musts
where
you
say
the
same
thing
right,
but.
A
And
and
usually
it
it's
usually
that
it
works
just
fine
that
way.
If
you
include,
if,
if
you
are
going
to
drive
a
car,
you
must
have
a
driver's
license.
That's
a
completely
reasonable
thing
to
say
right,
because
it's
not
optional.
There's
no
case
in
which
you
can't
you
can
drive
a
car
and
not
have
a
driver's
license.
It's
that
the!
If
you
don't
need
to
drive
a
car,
then
you
don't
need
a
driver's
license
right.
So
there's
a
there.
A
F
The
problem
is
that
we
also
supposed
to
describe
what
exists
now.
I'm
not
sure
the
library
is
actually
write
one
because
it's
I
mean
you
can
use
a
file
without
one,
it's
just
a
nice
thing
to
have.
So,
basically,
if
we
say
must
we
it's
like
making
all
these
files
invalid,
even
though
they're
quite
valid.
F
A
F
You
have
some
files
with
just
chapters
and
or
maybe
tags
so
you
don't
you
usually
make
tastic
is
useful
when
you
have
large
files
when
you
need
to
know
exactly
where
at
the
end
of
the
file
you
need
to
seek.
But
if
your
file
is
small,
it's
not
that
much
too
sick
to
actually
find
it
right,
especially
you
have
just
chapters
and
tags,
it's
very
easy
to
seek.
F
F
D
The
isg
ought
to
hold
you
up
to
say
what
does
it
mean
to
be
tolerant?
You
know
yeah
what
what
what
what's
the
recommended?
What's
the
recommended
action
that
you
would
take
if
you
realize
that
you're
looking
at
a
if
you're
looking
at
something
that
is
not
conforming
to
the
specifications
that
we've
got,
you
know.
E
If
it
was
content
made
produced
by
the
archive
as
the
result
of
reformatting,
then
then
maybe
true,
but
if
it
was
like,
if
we
were
trying
to
receive
material
like,
for
instance,
if
we're
trying
to
read
a
live,
matraska
stream
to
store
it
and
it
doesn't
have
medic,
because
that's
one
reason
why
it's
not
you
know
it
doesn't
need
to
be
used.
So
we'd
want
to
store
the
data,
as
is
so
like
I
don't
know,
there
are
a
lot
of
instances
where
we
wouldn't
intentionally
want
to
manipulate
a
file.
A
A
No,
I
mean
like-
let's
let's
say
I
I'm
thinking
about
you
know
I
don't
know,
I'm
thinking
about
archive.org,
which
I
know
more
about
than
anything
else,
but
somebody
brings
a
a
recording
of
something
and
it
was
recorded
lot
from
a
live
stream
or
from
a
legacy
recording
device,
or
you
know
converted
from
betamax
right
and
they
say
here
archive,
please
you
know,
keep
it
and
it's
not.
You
know
it's
not
it's
not
new.
E
Yeah
I
mean
it
depends
on
context
like
some
archives
might
be
in
a
situation
where
they
have
to
show
that
they're,
preserving
a
bit
exact
copy
of
the
original.
That
there's
been
no
manipulation
to
what
they
received,
but
yeah.
Some
might
want
the
additional
features
and
flexibility
by
re-wrapping.
It.
E
A
A
Two
copies:
I
guess
I'm
trying
to
I'm
trying
to
think
about.
Do
we
have
to
have
a
definition
of
what
is
what
was
the
word
I
used
before
not
legacy,
but
the
opposite
one
spencer
conformance
conformant.
Do
we
have
to
have
a
word
that
says,
there's
some
conformance
level
or
something
or
doesn't
matter
or
maybe
this
is
something
we
would
come
back
to
and
say
this
is
the
experience
we
have
later
on.
E
A
You
know
absence
of
x
right
because
it
doesn't
always
exist
or
there
are
some
contexts
in
which
it
won't
won't
be
there
and
that's
all
I'm
trying.
I
can't
think
I
can
actually
say
which
ones
should
be,
which
which
ones
must
be
which,
but
all
that's
all
I'm
trying
to
say
is
that
that's
the
kind
of
language.
I
think
that
we
need
to
make
sure
that
we
have
that
will
make
our
reviewers
happier
about
understanding
it,
because
they're
going
to
be
in
the
same
situation.
A
F
I
want
just
before,
but
subject
before
you
suggested,
that
we
have
a
general
recommendation:
how
to
create
files
somewhere
in
the
file,
and
I
already
created
one
merge
request
for
that
and
pretty
much
the
end
of
the
document.
If
you
want
to
create
useful
things
in
microscope,
you
should
do
this
or
that
maybe
the
metastic
could
be
one
of
them
as
well.
It
could
be
moved
there
explaining
why
you
should
do
it
and
like
it's
really
a
good
thing
to
do,
even
though.
A
F
F
A
F
G
A
Yeah,
so
I'm
I'm
not
actually
trying
to
limit
it
to
block
group
or
simple
block
elements.
I
think
I
was
trying
to
parse
the
the
fact
that
the
block
group
and
the
simple
block
elements
can
are
are
each
there
may
be
zero
or
there
may
be
one
of
them
or
more
of
them
right
yeah.
That
was
all
I
was
trying
to
get
at
is.
Is
that
the?
I
think
that
the
numbers
that
a
cluster
element
that
contains
zero
block
groups
and
zero
simple
block
elements
is
not
valid.
A
F
G
A
F
Yeah
we
already
had
some
similar
texts
in
other
places.
It's
just
that
that
piece
of
text
was
different,
so
I
just
copied
what
was
already
said
elsewhere
and
so
that's
merge
request,
a
pull
request,
608
and
basically
now
it
says
the
timestamp
element
should
be
the
first
element
in
the
cluster.
It
belongs
to
or
the
second.
If
that
cluster
contains
a
checksum
element.
A
H
A
F
Know
that
it's
all
generated
from
yeah
the
problem
is
that
it's
it's
the
markdown
to
xml
translation,
the
format
that
we're
using
allows
us
to
have
that
kind
of
formatting.
With
these
elements,
this
value,
that
kind
of
thing,
but
once
you
try
to
do
something
funky,
it's
not
possible.
Otherwise,
that's
to
be
a
table
and
then
it
would
look
bulkier.
I
think
so.
I
did
shrink
some
lines.
F
C
C
A
A
Oh
yeah,
because
a
lot
of
them,
some
of
them
had
sections
had
usage
notes
and
some
of
them
had
rationale
in
the
area
in
the
in
the
definitions,
and
I
was
trying
to
understand
whether
we
were
putting
them
in
the
right
places
all
the
time.
I
think
that's
the
the
real
thing
in
some
cases,
maybe
we
weren't
just
a
sex
yeah.
F
F
A
A
A
A
Sorry
about
that
yeah,
so
I
was
trying
to
yeah.
I
got
what
you're
saying
so,
I'm
just
trying
to
make
sure
that
my
problem
with
having
two
two
boxes
that
we
is,
is
that
we
don't
it's
making
sure
that
we
basically
just
always
know
that
we're
using.
Why
are
we
using
this
box
versus
that
box?
That's
all
and
yeah.
H
A
F
A
So
that's
really
good,
I
think
that's
an
improvement
block
label.
You
did
this.
What
was
some
other?
Oh
yes,
I
think
this
is
a
good
change
from,
rather
than
calling
it
ihf
element,
let's
call
it
a
bcp-47,
which
is,
I
think,
the
right
reference,
and
otherwise
it
looks
kind
of
weird
in
the
ietf,
because
we
wouldn't
know
what
it
was.
A
F
A
F
A
A
F
A
F
Well,
it
depends
by
use
these
elements
because
that's
exactly
what
webmd
they
didn't,
they
took
what
existed
and
used
it.
They
just
expanded
it
and
they
use
some
values
and
say
this
is
with
that
value.
You
do
that
someone
could
just
come
and
create
their
own
system
based
on
the
few
fields
we
have.
If
what
you
mean
is
you
have
ctr?
Yes,
cbs,
I
think,
and
if
I
have
this
value,
how
do
I
do
it
right
now?
We
only
describe
the
one
that
is
found
on
webm
there's
another
version
that
is
possible.
F
F
G
A
A
sentence
in
that
says
that
detailed,
a
detailed
description
of
how
to
do
this
for
modern
algorithms
is
the
subject
of
future
work:
okay,
okay
and-
and
I
hope
that
gets
rid
of
the
problem
right.
Otherwise
we're
going
to
have
the
security
people
basically
saying.
Oh
hang
on
here,
you
can't
use
static
keys.
You
can't
do
this.
You
can't
do
that.
Oh,
what's
the
key
agreement
protocol,
why
are
you
using
rsa
and
weddes
and
blah
blah
blah
blah
and
reality?
A
Is
we're
not
trying
to
come
up
with
a
a
video
encryption
system
here
at
all?
It's
not
our
goal,
we're
simply
documenting
that
these
containers
do
exist
and
if
you
see
them
you
know
they're,
it's
not
bogus,
but
it
is
part
of
essentially
a
legacy
system.
As
what
I'm
trying
to
say
and
legacy
is
anything
that's
not
really
well
documented.
It
doesn't
have
to
be
old
right,
so,
okay,
so,
okay,
so
then
we
had
there.
A
F
F
A
Thing
so,
in
other
words,
we
don't
need
another
ietf
rfc,
you
could,
you
know,
ask
for
it.
Some
other
way.
First
come
first
served
et
cetera
whatever.
Then
we
don't
need
to
have
an
eye
on
it.
Then
we
do.
Then
we
need
to
have
an
iana
registry
because
we
need
to
say
what
the
rules
are,
but
if
they're
mostly
just
like
elements
of
you
know,
you
say
fields
of
a
thing
and
if
we
did
come
along,
we
would
have
to
write
a
new
document.
Anyway,
then
that's
fine.
We
just
leave
them
that
way.
F
C
A
C
A
D
A
Came
along
with
a
new
needed,
a
new
value
you'd
actually
have
to
go
and
define
a
whole
bunch
of
other
stuff.
So
actually
you
have
to
write
a
new
document
and
it
would
have
to
update
this
one
and
the
problems
of
adding
new
values
is
not
you
know
the
biggest
problem
right.
It
would
just
so
you
just
have
to
update
it,
and
you
know-
maybe
maybe
at
some
point
I
just
don't
think
I
I
I
as
I
was
saying.