Internet Engineering Task Force Interim Meetings, 16 May 2023

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: IETF-ALTO-20230516-1400

Description

ALTO meeting session at IETF
2023/05/16 1400

https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting//proceedings/

A

Can you hear me.

B

A

Yeah I think Jody will take take a minute this time.

A

Okay, probably it's.

A

Okay, thank you. uh Let's move on.

A

Okay, let's uh start actually so welcome to uh this Auto intermediate. This uh I believe this is the force intermedium focus on OK, Google, follow-up of om transport, and my name is Ching Wu and my coaches and.

A

So not aware apply, and probably you know you already get a recorded and for code conduct. Please be applied professional to your uh fellows and also rpr was applying.

A

This is the note aware- and please follow this if you're not already, please release.

A

This is agenda for today's discussion and we'll you know, focus on two uh working good job and for each job, we'll spend 25 minutes and to discuss what is the open issue we we already have and what is the issue we already closed there and at the end we will leave five minutes to discuss the uh whether any you know idea about the security privacy. We can prepare for the next interim.

A

And for since the focus is, you know, om and transport and for the Next Step? Actually we uh post that we need to make sure we resolve all the open issue.

A

Probably uh we encourage the author to prepare the new version other end of this week and we can launch the second working last call for both chapter at the beginning of next next week, but we need a additional reviewer for each chapter or and transport and if you are volunteer, please let us know- and the goal is to finalize this draft negative ready for publication at the first week of the June.

A

So any agenda batch.

A

If no actually has a move on, let's uh have a first topic discussion or the OM Json. The floor is yours.

A

Do you want to share by yourself share a slide.

A

Hello cheers we can hear you. Oh.

C

Okay, so maybe I can just start to share the slides.

C

I'd also replied on the.

C

Yeah so should I just share my screen. Oh.

A

Yeah, you can share your screen or you share a slide.

C

Okay, okay, sure.

A

Yeah we can see now.

C

C

Yeah just uh to make some uh update about other progress on the yeah.

C

uh How the particles document and we had out of the new version to address the working, Black, Card reviews and some other comments issues.

C

So here's the thing about the extra versions and the copy on the GitHub and also the Yamato, is defined by this document.

C

So it's a great summary about the current progress is to so we we already received three different laptop reviews from The, psvr, Young, doctor reviews and the of course directed reviews and was a tsvr. So.

C

This is so this is already so that's not talking is used made by the center so each other already. So we have to get a combination to get the response to him to after some clarifications about the text and for the Ops directory reviews. So all the comments are having very progressed to have been the response to them and to get the conversation for the young data reviews.

C

They almost surprised the comments, the questions we start to Andy and get them for the best feedback and put in the snow object that on the GitHub issues tickets. We we trust some further discussion, so they have to have fun planting issues, so we will discuss it later.

C

Ask for some additional reviews made by working with shares. So without detract the progress down, so you can have the issue ticket and just perhaps there are two open issues to address, but but yeah I think it's not blocking issues, but it's also how these three pending interest is just some. It helps enhancement about the this document. Also, they have to ban individual reviews by Lewis and if you address the comments, so there's a link about the how the GitHub issues so we use databases to check out the common sense of the discussions.

C

So we have three perhaps 31 issues in total and because I'm most awesome, but there's still three open issues. So.

C

We try to discuss it today, so you in this video so for the first one, it's about to list open issues about the characters about the New Testament to the introduced in the new version. So the comments are actually made by Andy uh reviews.

C

So I think we need to clarify some. uh The the semantics and the the imported formats are about some typical. So uh we introduced two new type device, which is a the society and the Roman.

C

So they have the pattern continues, but we don't have any text to clarify why, by the address pattern, content so.

C

Because from some discussions uh uh you don't think we don't find any special reason in the static implementation that.

C

C

So so it doesn't, they are specific reasons that, uh to.

C

But we also want to put it into the discussing so how to say if any working members have some specific reasons, so just think we need the pattern, something if not, we just simply remove it.

A

Okay for the first issue and any comments.

A

Actually, my suggesting you know I I'm, why we need to this uh concentrator for for the pattern, design, yeah, maybe yeah simple solution- is just remove this pattern. I they.

C

Elderly systems.

A

We have comments from.

C

A

C

C

I also come out here, mattress.

A

Matter, can you uh other comments in the in in the chat room.

D

B

Yeah I think yeah. The basic comment here is that we um we don't need to over specify that means that if there is no I would say, link with what we have in the base specs, there is no need to to the constraints as much as what we have here. So my recommendation is that to go, remove the group and remove the the current pattern.

A

A

Richard, do you have additional comments, a.

D

Very quick question is the following: uh even if you remove the pattern, I presume, you still have a type right. So therefore Source ID sub type string and you specify lens, which is from one to Max and then you're gonna have the only same thing. My question is typically when you define these, have things and is, for example, here: let's really look at it, and here for the source. Id is a string from from uh whistling from one to Max, and therefore your own name would also be from 1 to Max.

D

Typically as me as a typical programmer and I will look at okay does really mean that the source ID and your name should be somehow at least related. At least they should be the same lens right.

D

Otherwise one is Max. Second, one also Max should sure the first one be Max one. Second, one will be Max two, and if they are the same Max that's really mean eventually. Maybe your name can become Source ID. So typically you define uh the philosophy. I follow all the time. I think that's a that's one thing I learned by by early days in my career when drawing a working people like pohudak and so on, they always argue essentially is a major part program, language or formal system.

D

Is you use the syntax to come with semantics right?

D

You define the syntax and the syntax trying to convey the semantic here. Do I really get the the reading that the source ID and your name somehow are related. So that's why they have the same moments and if they have the same lens then can you define a single one? So therefore that's a single Max less. Otherwise, why do they have the same less.

C

Let me understand so because the society and donate they had the same so.

C

I I also getting better to use it. A single common tab, design, ER test amateur.

D

uh It depends on how much semantics you want to do right and uh if you think, Source ID and your name are just typical identifier, you use just Define identify and then they all have same lens and then eventually you all do that and I think that's the way it works. Well here at Radio type Define. You want to come with a semantics and that's a different one right so I'm, just only here, I'm just trying to really get today. Why are you in single Source ID and your name?

D

You're gonna have a bunch of other essential types of variables right. You introduce a new type. Why this type? What's relationship between different types, that.

C

So this comments made by the younger reviews in every type you use the module. You need to despise it by this semantic on the description, yeah, so I'm gonna start adding a girl name yeah. Even they have the same encoding format but the the usage of them in the different context. So we have a different Technologies. You need to use a description statement to inside.

D

Sure, even I'm, fine, for example, then I probably I- would Define, for example, Source ID rhodium, clearly as some kind of what they called L value right and left hand side value. They Define some kind of identifier. So therefore problem maximum lens would be, you know, identify a name Max identifier, less and then your name also similar, because you can also have maximum lens from the buffer side right and you can have a variable name. You can have the value which can be longer.

D

You know typical names, you know 32 64, 128 and values, and you know 4K or whatever I'm just trying to really convey as much as many as possible.

B

Yeah yeah, Richard I think the problem we have here is that we don't have any alternative text to put there to constraint. I would say the the semantic not the format of this is to type. So we have two options where we go back to what we have in the formal design. That's simply said that the source, ID and the rule name are just strings, but the problem is that the young doctors and with the um best practices for iOS certified engineering models.

B

They don't like, if you just give the I, would say just the string and then play with that, so that you want to have some constraints and the only constraint for for for these two, given the the I would say, the automotive specification document we have in the alto is that it.

E

Must not be a null strain. That means that we are it's not as minimum.

B

We should you should have one a length of one, the max.

E

F

B

That you will have the same max value between here, the source, ID and the role name. All what it says is that it's can be a language start from one to the maximum of the allowed type and the type is the string. So the question for us here in the um for the working group, whether we should we add something more, which is not today in the in the specifications or can we just simply see that yeah? This is the minimum we can do.

B

We don't know if there are other constraints and then we can leave it for for the future and that's the um the the question we need to answer today. Sure I, remember that we had this discussion last time. In the last interview and the uh we had a homework from from Jensen to uh to justify the rational, why we have the ad pattern and they don't know that we came up with a justification for it, so I think that's.

E

We just need to be a.

B

Pragmatic here and move forward and just remove the the pattern uh maintain the temp. That's that's always better than the the string for the implementation. You can always do a deviation or refinement, and so on and that's that's fine I, don't think I think this deserves to be I would say more discussion that that we have so far for it.

D

Sure sure, my only small suggestion, of course that's totally uh uh according the authors can do, is maybe don't by the way. What's the value of the max really is really the maximum of total string type by itself or Max is.

B

D

C

B

D

Right but a string can be like a 4K right. Do we want a lot of sources.

B

And we are going back to the uh to the question: do we have any limitation in the current in the current specification of the lines? Yes, we know that we have. Some I would say that the string should not be that long, because otherwise we'll be consuming a lot of resources.

B

um If we have any recommended value, we can we can. We can dig it, but I, don't think that we have any random one unless we decide to see this yeah with the. um If we do a makeup parallel with the other attributes, we have in the current specification and we have a maximum for those, let's use the same Max, and then we will have a bounded string value there right, but did we did we did we have this bounded for the others? I, don't think so.

B

I think that the length one to Max is also used for the other ones. If I'm not mistaken, Jensen.

C

Yeah yeah, obviously.

B

I think it's it's the same language we have for the other ones.

D

Okay, it sounds like if I were Implement her all I want to do, for example, uh of course, and that might be go to the details, and sometimes, for example, if it is I'm doing like a very simple password. A young model I probably need to allocated this like a source ID like giant vagina array right, that's kind of like a weird yeah.

C

B

F

B

Yeah yeah, just we get this one before we, uh we decided to to move on it, so we're in charge. What what what would be I would say your uh because.

F

Whatever recommendation.

B

We will do for these two lifts. We should be consistent with the other ones. What we have there, so please, if you can go to the I, would say to the um to the document um and review it part of the second second working classical. That will be a really good to to have more eyes on it.

B

um So, just as a reminder, as she mentioned in the introduction slides, we need at least three reviewers for his documents.

C

B

And the director and also the chairs, so it will be good to have other ones. So if you can commit pleased to to be one of these three reviewers for the UN.

D

This will be really great, okay, great great good idea. I'll do that.

B

Okay, so um for the uh for the minutes, please, if you can just record that we have Richard to be um coming to review the duo in draft during the um the second working platform that will be. uh This will be good. Thank you and thank you Johnny for losing, as we are on it. Can we please have two additional reviewer volunteers for the DUI document.

A

Yes, I think so, thanks Richard.

G

So I think Matt. Are you asking for two more volunteers? Yes,.

B

Yes, we need at least two names so that we can. We are really I, would say good or having three three names and three reviews from fresh eyes, and we are sure confident that the um the second book of last call is really a repeating what what the European roles so, please, if we can have two additional volunteers that will help us move forward.

G

B

G

Could you could you repeat: what's the deadline for this is I think we mentioned at the beginning, um yeah. The is that this is that for the second working group last call yes, yes,.

B

G

G

Yeah so um so we have on one volunteer, which is Richard. We need two more volunteers. I can try my best to to be one of those and any other volunteers.

A

Yeah I also volunteer to review these.

B

I always preferably having one more, which is not working with as a chain piece.

A

B

Thank you thank you, but you can always review. So that's.

A

Maybe a lawyer or Sabine can volunteer.

G

Sabin, how is that for you? Where is that's something.

D

Is a good choice because she knows all these like uh variables and.

D

F

I already reviewed the documents, so I think I'm, not a legend.

G

Yeah the same thing actually so um yeah.

G

So um so Sabine, how is your are you available to do this review.

G

E

Can take this offline.

G

um And come up with uh with two more of yours um for this. Let me take this as an action item. Yeah I'll follow up with a group. Okay,.

B

Thank you. Thank you. Jody.

G

Thank you. Let's proceed.

B

Yeah Jason, please continue.

C

Yeah uh for the second opening Tuesday about the security consideration, so uh this comments also made by uh Mis. So it's actually discussing down the GitHub feature tickets and uh right now we have the early proposal uh about how to revise it uh about two parts like that: uh they need to start a proper uh yeah, some type of so we need to uh set and exam this tension for the authentication, related data, node and Rhino I think all the uh I think is really generally protected by the reusable groupings.

C

It is depart in some other graphs that for some choices defined in this document, so it may be argumented by some other extension modules. So this will introduce some other authentication related data nodes. So we need to be carefully so when they function modules Define this kind of objective nodes, so they need to set the number right as time expression. So imagine this consideration some days, uh new revision and another write about for some writable data notes.

C

So we may have some negative tactics is not that properly at least two examples like the fade interval and pull interval uh depending the data cells that there's a listener. Its operator.

C

C

You've made some uh may lead to some issues of the system performance and the some other text solution, so they definitely some security confusing. Now they.

C

Other characters documents, that's a Japanese universities, so maybe, if they want to play, expresses we can depending configurable threat tools for this conducted notes, but I'm not ready to uh so I think this slide also can be uh related to the the sort of an issues about the notifications that, for.

C

uh For the Concrete Solutions to.

C

Yeah I don't know if the construction is already enough so because the mathematic discussions, answers and other uh actual reviews from the creative.

D

I think Jessica here, you're really talking about two different issues: uh security, authentication, authorization, Are One issues and uh they Integrity or or safety of system, is second issue, so they are really two very two different issues and you might want to separate into I. Don't think they are security considerations. The first one looks likely to be security uh consideration. The second one is more like operational issues right and because second, one really is operational.

D

uh I do have some uh more comments and about the operation, our personal issues, for example the feed interval and put into what I can understand right. For example, whenever you have data type of course, it's a young model essentially is only defined uh the uses, standard, syntax and Define. Something, for example, feeding table cannot be negative one and that doesn't make sense right. So, therefore, all the value must be valid and it cannot should not be zero.

D

What's the meaning of zero or what's the meaning of minus one and so on so I think that's issue number one basically is integrity over value, I know sometimes in real systems. What you do is uh there are two ways, for example, because the feeding table oftentimes, you want this OEM. So therefore you want some kind of unless you, when you discuss about operation issues is you might have a, for example, multiple uh system, multiple or uh entities getting involved.

D

For example, uh one part of management comes from the operator, for example, the you know the the ISP who really controls feed intervals. So therefore they can say that they can set some kind of upper bound and lower bound. You cannot be faster than one millisecond or 100 milliseconds per uh poly interval or cannot be lower and so on, and so, therefore you can put some upper back and then you might have second entity which might really go in and modified variables.

D

So therefore, essentially it is hierarchical policy, but essentially you Define operational or defined in policy. So therefore, the policy will have some kind of hierarchy and higher level policies who might Define, for example, some ring and which constrain the second level of policy. The second level policy can be no set by a separate operator or separate entity or can be really controlled, for example by some kind of dynamic algorithm right. For example, poor interval will be adjusted According to some kind of learning algorithm. So therefore, I think those are the issues.

D

I don't know if you want to go into the discussion and uh you probably, if you really want to do, and you really give up about lower bound or whatever Bond essentially is higher level policy and lower level policy. So this probably makes more sense, but you probably want to clarify what was intended. Just only gave a upper by lower ball, probably not a good right, and what exactly is the correct value of upper lower bound.

C

Okay, so so yeah, you also getting that uh so it's the first flight they start should not be in this security consideration, but we had um some discussion on the operations right and then we can pick up some further. We can have some further discussions on this one.

D

Right because basically interval Point table essential. Sometimes they might be different variables and basically higher level policy is constraint to the scope of second level. So, therefore, you might have separate different variables and control it. So at least that's the way it works, so operational, I, I, just I, would I would suggest right and uh operational and then allow safety so put intervals uh bound. You probably make like, for example, uh controlled by one entity and then, but this one actually should be also tied up with your security policy right.

D

It's an authentication and authorization who can write, which part and upper level can control the lower bound.

B

Just for the context, so what this section is is trying to do is to to identify the um I would say in the um in the young data model, the data nodes that are sensitive. That means that, assuming that you, without making an assumption, how the authorization is done, how the um all the I would say um your system is set up, there may be some meditation. Some vulnerabilities are related to some of the the nodes and just giving you I would say in the chat.

B

The um the uh the overall I would say, Tom plate, which is should be followed by the all the young out designers to call out the um the sensitive data nodes.

B

um So it's it's not I would say it's not practical, just to go and say yes, we don't have any any issue with the with the model, because this is not true, and we cannot just say that yeah we have the um the appropriate I.

E

Would say management system to.

B

To manage the authorization and the um um I would say, correct access and utilization of the nodes right, so the we don't need to be a comprehensive or exhaustive, but only to identified what are critical and the one which is, for example, displayed by um Jensen here is about the the pointer event. It's even if you allow, for example, a range of values. There are still some wind liabilities related to it, because it depends. There is no recommended value that you can set to be safe right.

B

If you set it lower, then you can have more frequency in in pulling your reducers. If you see it high, then you will. You will end up having still data in your in your system and then your all the auto Machinery will be based. So even with a branch we still have a problem. If there is I would say a malicious user who who is accessing to that? To that to that data so in place we have the recommendation to use secure means to access to that.

B

But in the same time, we need to pull out the sensitive I would say, information that that should be protected even or without the use of the um the the I would say. The access control, which is also displayed here by emergency in this slide. So I I, don't know which is currently your proposal for, for the section by introducing the the operational I would say, parameters and so on.

D

A

uh The research additional collaborate actually for this security section we do have you know templates that we can follow young data model security, template and as a medical Library, we just need to you know, focus on young data models that are sensitive. We identified insensitive and provide a you know, additional description.

D

Right yeah, let me take a look at the uh and the the template and then I can give my share my comment in my review: how about that we don't have to okay. Thank you.

B

C

You Richard, thank you, I think. That's good!.

A

Yeah so Jason you can.

C

Maybe you can yeah become, of course, so they uh the laptop issues about the notification, so there's also didn't come out so consider to add some notifications that can be tracked with some threshold of the original animation up there. So right now we foreign.

C

By the some other modules, for example, say alert modules, so maybe we can just reuse them, but uh so we're still checking this data modules to see how to how to really use them. So I also want to uh say some data from the button. So if you had some other suggestion about this.

A

So Richard you have a comments.

D

Create a common question and I'm like I, said actually review a document, but I haven't uh fully. Would I would talk about notification to add for resource limits uh only or you already have notifications for other things as well. For example, you know it doesn't have to be to be a resource limit exceeding it can be. For example, people set a notification value of less than 10 milliseconds and therefore you should be notified. Someone might be doing something then potentially dangerous, so I I will talk about generic notification mechanism, essentially anything somehow.

C

There's some things yeah so so because we see some other notice, for example the other modules. Maybe they already defined a more concrete, more General Solutions about the notifications. So we can use them, for example, that that we'd like to mentioned about the not just the resource limiting also some others.

D

Yeah, for example, if if the auto server crashed or some branches of Auto server, whatever disappeared or a customer, no longer updated or whatever, would you also send a notification in your system.

C

uh Yeah, that's a good question right now. uh I've done this I also server pressure, I'm, not sure. If the Yamato can handle this uh right now we only can handle some open some information resource Christ, but if the the whole server requests.

C

um I think we're very interested if they also still request the uh whether they.

D

F

E

D

Right so typical, for example, if I were going to use the Zookeeper or whatever others Google stuff so oftentimes, the way it works is and I would basically use your model as a way of you know like zookeeper and essentially is I. Have a overall structure and I will link the data uh to to uh to the management om system of individual, for example, I I'm Network, one and I have five. For example, Auto servers and I have one branch or one Whatever brand for every single server.

D

Whenever that server it is connected that Branch will be disappeared and then I said: okay, there's a alarm so therefore I will send notification right. So that's a that's a standard uh connection, oriented design model of Zookeeper. That's exactly whenever this information on refresh and then will the trigger alarm right, trigger essential State, and so therefore you know what happened.

D

Notification mechanism.

A

Maybe probably we should take it through the list. I think we already run on time for this topic.

C

A

Okay, my understanding is for, for the parameter you propose is not a generic is a specific to to some memory resource usage. You put the limit, so let's take it to the list and move to the next topic. Okay,.

G

Could you put this question in the mailing list and then Jensen and others can follow up yeah, okay,.

C

Yeah uh we already have to discuss our issues with example forward instance. We can.

G

Yeah actually yeah connect that with the GitHub ticket yeah make sure it's linked yeah. Thank you great great appreciate that.

C

H

Yep, uh let me see uh yeah I think this is one wait. Do you see the screen.

A

H

uh Yeah, okay, okay, so uh basically, uh today, I'm going to go over the updates uh for the new transport documents since the last uh internal meeting for the working group documents- and uh this is the state uh of the document in before the last interim meeting- and uh uh this is basically the state of the document uh before this intermediate and uh except for the HP Dr review- that we haven't uh really uh going down the detail with Martin for the other documents.

H

uh For the other reviews, we have at least pinned the reviewers and for the Ops uh Dr review and for the TSB art review. We have got confirmation from the authors that they considered. uh The updates has addressed their comments and for the office they are review, I think uh sun has replied uh publicly and but for the tsvr Arts uh I, basically is in the personal email to Bernard and he replied also uh in personal email. So probably we need to ask him to basically respond uh publicly I.

H

Think that's the state for the uh document and uh as a major road blockers here, I think it's still the HP jar review and uh super. So, let's intermediate what has mentioned that there are some basically issues pointed out in the hpdr review, and uh so after the next after the last intermediate we have made some updates I think for some of the comments uh they can be addressed like uh by some editorial changes. For example, we have proposed a list of terms to define the uh uh determines that, so we don't.

H

uh Basically, when we do the specification, we we refine the tones that we, for example, don't use terms such as should be like, and we are using terms, for example, must have the format of uh I. Think that probably would solve the problem or like specification by example, uh issue and also we have a list of terms uh terminal uh defined in a section 2.2 and that's basically uh we'll solve the inconsistency of terms, issue and I.

H

Think knock learning has replied with Martin about the new design uh that we do not need to actually uh Curry one do not need to involve one round of Curry to actually fetch your data, so I think the only remaining issue is uh how to basically, we need to confirm with money whether the proposed solution to use hdv2 answer.

H

Your server push and also uh whether uh and also to justify uh why we want to bond the session to a single processing connection I think that's the only remaining problems until we can make another revision, yep, uh yeah I, think that's. Basically, the current state.

B

Motivation text to explain rational why we wanted to have a single one. Do you confirm that you have this text in the new version or not yet.

H

uh uh I am I, don't think so. uh I probably need to check the document. uh I'm, not sure whether, for example, lakshman or Richard has uh made some updates.

D

No, we don't have this uh yet so we should really uh add this apart, starting exactly.

B

D

Yeah, we really should add it about uh Matt. We send an email to uh Martin Thompson uh times. We want to have a very quick chat with some like uh within the next one today, which is an email, maybe like around half an hour ago a hour ago, and uh after he's also okay, and then we can add a paragraph. Of course it will be more having discuss about why session based it makes sense, it adds complexity, but it is actually awesome.

D

Time can be very good, very good too, but it basically means the connectivity is also associated with essentially semantics.

B

Okay, thank you for this update, recharge.

E

But anyway, so.

B

If you suggestion to be made, please make sure to um yeah to um to ship this by the end of the um of the week, so that we can we can follow the the plan we had for the second book last call and by the way um we also need you, the three volunteers for the this draft as well. uh So people who are who who are on the I would say on the bridge. Please.

B

If you can commit to uh to review this document, that should be a really good to uh to have more eyes on on it because I, we don't have much reviews from the working of yourself rather than the the chairs and the directory viewers. uh So we would appreciate, if you can volunteer to uh to uh to review.

D

Right would be great.

F

A

Sure so we use um we do have time to review this.

A

So any volunteer.

G

Yeah I I can also come here. The um some of you guys already did the review like uh let's mentioned I I, leave these two documents uh prior to the first working Google. Let's call I'm happy to do another. Well, uh it's challenging because it's only a few days. I guess uh margin here and uh but I'll do my best to do a review um yeah. The challenge is the timing.

G

I think it's a little bit tight, especially because there are many things going on uh so um I'm sure the same situation for others um is the timeline strict or can we buy us a little bit more time.

D

B

D

It's okay with you and can we I do know a couple of people who are very good in HTTP? They are not a working group, but can we also coach those other people to review our documents because they're, very good and.

E

B

Yeah, the the more eyes we have. This is really good for for us to be sure and to back up that you're on the the ATF last hole that we have more isolates. So that would be great if you can chase them. Yeah.

D

Okay, okay, I'll ping I'll find one around two people, because they are very good in xcp. They may not be total expert on auto but they're, very good experts in terms of HTTP, which is what we need as well yeah, exactly yeah.

G

Thank you Richard, uh let's coordinate that offline uh and make sure that we have a good good number of reviewers. um So thank you. uh If you want to see me on that Richard and now yeah.

F

It's making sure that we have.

G

Enough enough people, yeah and.

F

D

For the OEM.

G

um We'll do the same: yeah, okay, cool.

A

Okay, thanks Richard thanks uh Judy, to have to find out in here.

B

Okay, so the the teams for the um I would say the authors of both drought, so the next step would be um to wait for the um revised versions, and then we will kick off the um the working class comment next week.

B

Okay, so unless there is in the other ports, we can move to the next Point machine.

A

Yeah, uh maybe let me share the chair, slides okay. We still have some time and I think.

A

For for the next step, we'll prepare, you know another, you know intermediate focus on security and privacy and uh I want to know um anyone have a plan working plan to work on this and any proposal you want to share.

D

I think IU has uh think.

E

D

Oh Louise go ahead.

A

I say: Luis: are you Louis your first.

F

Yes, yes, may there will be to report some security concerns that we have from the integration of Alto for the telephonica CDN, so some ideas that have come to our minds after this integration, so maybe I can report on that.

A

Okay, great thanks Luis are you.

E

So thank you as I sent in the email. So basically, we are now three tentative ideas that we are trying to explore further and we're hoping to receive some feedback and support from the auto members. In order to prioritize, which are your idea is more relevant and how to proceed. The next.

A

Maybe you you can share some of your ideas, further idea on the list to say how this can fit into the auto.

A

D

Yeah I just want to give a very quick update. uh I would like to write, of course, working with ayob and Luis I want to write up a little bit: security and privacy analysis and a little bit design as well, in particular in the context of multi-domain domain, and there are different secured privacy for some networks. They are most uh important for some other ones. For example the CERN and LGC one they're, less they're less. uh You know strict because they're relatively open, openly open public network.

D

So therefore I think I would like to add a little bit that particular multi-doming perspective. I'll, red hap and I'll share with the group.

A

Okay, thank you. Okay,.

A

Okay, we can all hear you.

H

H

Is working on some uh basically, some an algorithm called gradient, boosting which can uh basically generate multiple Maps you based on a single Auto map, and then they will still be able to keep some uh statistical uh features of the original map. But then it can basically uh generate some other values than the true value of the map and I I'm wondering whether this could be a useful case for, uh for example, when the clients may have some privacy issues with the network.

A

Yeah, maybe you can share your use case on the list we can discuss.

H

A

Okay, I I think that's all for today's discussion and so Matt do you have any last word.

B

No I don't know comments on it, so I'm, looking forward to CD I, would say: yeah visited version of the documents and also the structuring of the next entry meeting, because this will fit. The discussion will have only your future of the working group. So please get engaging it. If we want to CDM I would say um more activities in the in the future.

A

Yeah, so thanks to everyone, I think we can conclude this intermitting.

G

Thank you. Thank you. Everyone.

H

Thank you. Everyone bye.

C