►
From YouTube: IETF-EODIR-20230920-1500
Description
EODIR interim meeting session
2023/09/20 1500
https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/eodir/meetings/
B
B
A
A
B
A
A
A
We
have
a
pretty
informal
agenda
for
today,
mostly
for
brainstorming
feel
free
to
join
the
video.
If
you
like,
we've
traditionally
done
these
on
Zoom,
so
you
could
kind
of
have
the
whole
Gallery
in
because
these
are
more
like
a
Roundtable
discussions.
Then
you're,
then
a
standard
working
group,
but
we
have
switched
over
to
meet
Echo
as
part
of
IHF
infrastructure.
So
with
that,
the
first
agenda
item
is
introductions.
A
B
B
A
So
I
will
start
with
introductions
for
two
reasons:
one
I'm
Karen
O'donoghue
I'm,
one
of
the
co-leads
of
the
education
and
Outreach
directorate.
The
other
thing
I
did
want
to
point
out.
I
haven't
posted
this
on
the
mailing
list
yet,
but
I
am
no
longer
with
the
internet.
Society
I
do
plan,
at
least
in
the
near
term,
to
continue
doing
my
doing
this
type.
These
types
of
activities
in
the
ietf
but
I
haven't
posted
update
contact
information,
those
kinds
of
things
yet
but
I,
just
kind
of
wanted.
A
C
Hi
everyone
I'm
truth
along
with
Karen
and
Greg
I'm,
your
eodar
chair
I'm,
also
on
the
IAB
and
in
the
IB
recently
I've
also
become
the
Outreach
coordinator
for
the
IAB
and
thinking
about
the
Outreach
from
the
leadership
role.
Of
course,
that
works
very
well
with
the
eodir
Outreach
Charter
as
well.
So
we
will
continue
to
coordinate
between
the
two
activities
and
happy
to
be
here,
hoping
for
a
very
good
discussion
today.
A
F
D
A
H
A
A
All
right
with
that,
we
will
move
on
the.
The
second
item
is
activity
reviews
and
updates
we're
gonna
go.
We
didn't
solicit
these
in
advance.
We
were
going
to
let
folks
speak
to
them
more
dynamically,
I
guess,
I
would
say,
and
because
I
know
that
she's
got
everything
completely
in
order.
I
don't
know
Michelle
if
you
want
to
start
with
newcomer
like
what
are
the
you
know,
overarching
if
you
have
any
newcomer
updates
to
give
us
new
participant
new
participant
updates.
F
Self-Sensitive,
can
you
hear
me
now?
Yes,
we
are
underway
with
all
of
the
new
participant
activity
planning
for
118..
We
hope
to
have
all
of
the
usual
sessions
the
overview,
the
quick
connections,
the
social
event
for
new
participants
in
I,
isg,
IAB
leadership
on
Thursday
I
am
in
the
process
of
scheduling,
which
is
quite
important
for
new
participants.
F
Are
the
test
meet
Echo
sessions
prior
to
the
ietf
meeting,
so
we're
going
to
be
doing
those
two
weeks
prior
to
ietf
118
gives
new
participants
a
chance
to
test
out,
need
Echo
understand
how
it
works,
since
it's
such
a
big
part
of
the
way
we
work
and
also
gives
them
an
opportunity
to
ask
questions
so
starting
next
week,
we'll
be
doing
a
lot
of
the
messaging
instead
of
signed
up
for
the
meeting
and
I.
Think
that's
probably
a
good
brief
update
to
start
us
off
with
any
questions.
For
me.
E
I
I
know
you
try
really
hard
to
educate
people
on
this,
but
I
would
say
it's
worth
constantly
trying
with
the
working
group
chairs
and
in
particular
the
irtf
chairs,
some
of
whom
seem
to
be
routinely
surprised
at
every
meeting.
That
meteco
is
being
used,
let
alone
how
it
might
work
so
yeah
as
I
appreciate
it's
a
tough
task
but
persevering
that
I
think
would
be
beneficial
for
them
and
therefore
other
participants.
If,
if
you
can
possibly
get
their
interest.
F
B
So
we
are
going
to
be
making
a
special
effort
to
encourage
chairs
to
try
out
mediko,
at
least
once
before
the
meeting
begins,
and
the
difference
is
that
chairs
can
schedule
their
own,
basically
their
own
test
sessions
in
mediko,
which
is
actually
a
better
way
for
terrorists.
To
do
it,
because,
then,
when
they
do
that
the
they
actually
get
to
play
the
role
of
chair
in
the
session,
which
allows
them
to
try
out
all
the
different
tools
So.
B
The
plan
is
to
make
a
special
effort
to
reach
out,
as
you
said,
especially
to
research
group
chairs,
and
to
provide
a
short
little
script
for
them
to
follow,
so
that
they
can
be
more
familiar
with
all
the
features
so
yeah.
So
it's
a
good
point:
Outreach
is
sometimes
to
people
you
already
know
and
we'll
definitely
be
doing
that
for
118.
A
You
know
there
is
something
I
struggled
with
last
time
that
I
knew
there
was
a
way
to
do.
I
knew
I
had
done
it
before
and
I
couldn't
remember
where
it
was
so
I
was
wondering.
Is
there
a
I
mean
this
time
it'll
be
different
because
there's
a
new
interface,
so
there's
a
lot
of
things
that
change,
but
sometimes
like.
There's
like
a
few
new
features.
Is
there
a
summary
somewhere
that
we
put
out
that
says
this
is
what's
changed
since
last
time,
yeah
we.
B
Do
that
every
minute?
I
think
that
the
issue
for
me
anyway
is
trying
to
because
people
feel
my
impression
is
that
people
feel
very
comfortable
doing
video
conferencing
because
they
do
it
pretty
much
every
day.
Now
most
people
do
in
in
their
day
jobs,
and
they
underestimate
the
need
to
re-familiarize
themselves
with
the
meat
Echo
tool,
and
so
they
don't
so.
B
The
challenge,
I
think
is
simply
impress
upon
people
the
fact
that
if
they
spend
15
minutes
of
their
own
time
spend
getting
re-familiarized
with
medeco,
they
will
save
15
minutes
of
their
entire
working
group's
time
when
it
comes
to
getting
the
meeting
going
at
during
the
itaf
meeting,
and
they
will
look
better
and
live
longer
because
they
have
spent
those
15
minutes.
Something
like
that.
A
Yeah
that
that's
that's
probably
true,
I
also
think
that,
like
you,
know,
I
think,
like
the
the
case,
I
had
I
needed
to
swap
out
a
set
of
slides.
It's
last
minute,
so
I
had
uploaded
all
my
slides
I
had
done
all
of
the
things
that
I
would
have
done
in
a
practice
session,
but
I
needed
to
get
those
slides,
refreshed
and
I
knew.
There
was
a
way
to
do
it
and
it
I,
just
yeah
I
think
we
need
to
keep
our
messages
positive.
A
A
So
this
is
that
anything
else
on
on
new
participants,
Michelle
nope,
do
you
have
I
was
curious,
I,
don't
know
if
you
have,
if
you
published
it
somewhere
that
the
number
of
new
participants
we
had
last
time
or
with
there
was
these
statistics
that
were
flying
around
and
I.
Don't
know
if
you
have
something
there.
A
A
A
The
sorry
I'm
doing
two
things
at
once.
Speaking
of
chairing
anyway,
there
will
be
a
working
group,
transform
I,
don't
really
have
much
more
to
say
than
that.
We
don't
have
a
key
topic
this
time
so
but
we're
back.
We
have
sort
of
an
ad
hoc
list
of
things
we
could
be
talking
about,
but
we
haven't
really
narrowed
in
what
we
want
to
do.
I
think
we
want
to
make
better
use
of
the
time
than
we
currently
are.
A
C
C
So
that's
the
plan.
We
will
most
likely
have
some
kind
of
update
from
that
event
during
the
ITF
week
and
we
can
discuss
this
and
have
a
look
back
on
how
to
improve
this
kind
of
activities
as
well
in
future.
So
that's
the
plan
with
respect
to
the
immediate
Outreach
and
I'm
sure
Greg
would
have
some
data
with
respect
to
what's
happening
in
Prague
and
another
thing
is
like
Brisbane
is
a
new
area.
So
again
we
like
we
discussed
last
time.
We
are
exploring
various
Outreach
activities
that
we
can
do
there.
A
Okay,
the
one
other
Outreach
item,
I'll
mention
again
I,
don't
represent
the
internet
Society,
but
there
will
be
a
policy
maker
program
being
organized
for
Prague
last
I
heard
Ryan
Polk,
who
some
of
you
have
met
was
not
going
to
be
there,
but
Carl
goneberg
and
a
couple
others
will
be
there.
I
can
send
you
contact
information
if
you
want,
or
you
can
reach
out
to
Olaf
kulpman
and
I.
Just
put
my
email
in
the
chat
for
that.
A
B
Yeah
one
one,
just
this
hasn't
been
generally
announced
because
we
just
finalized
details,
but
it
will
be
shared
shortly.
The
there
will
be
an
ietf
chairs
training
live
sessions
this
this
year,
it'll
be
based
on
the
curriculum
that
we
developed
over
the
last
two
years
and
has
been
pretty
well
received.
B
B
C
A
I
I
H
A
H
Kitchen
yeah
yeah,
no
I
guess
this
may
be
a
very
basic
question,
but
I
think
I
saw
that
there
isn't
a
kind
of
host
for
the
the
upcoming
Prague
meeting
and
I.
Guess.
I
was
wondering
whether
that
there
is
any
link
there
to
any
of
the
kind
of
diversity
and
inclusion
kind
of
sponsorship
funding
or
if
it's
like
kind
of
two
separate
parts,
and
there
isn't
a
kind
of
link
there
or
or
kind
of
any
effect
from
the
lack
of
hosts
on
any
of
the
kind
of
diversity
and
inclusion
sponsored
initiatives.
I
Thanks
and
anyone
else
should
feel
free
to
chime
in
as
well.
That's
right,
we
don't
have
a
host
for
118..
My
understanding
is,
however,
that
we
have
several
diversity
and
inclusivity
sponsors.
So
the
good
news
is
things
like
you
know
the
child
care
support
and
other
things
will
continue
thanks
to
that
kind
of
funding
which
is
great,
and
so
you
know
in
terms
of
the
efforts
already
underway.
I,
don't
know
that
the
host
not
having
a
host
for
118
will
be
detrimental
in
that
sense.
I
I
think
you'll
see
it
in
other
ways.
You
know
it's.
There
are
perks
that
we
throw
in
that
are
made
possible
during
the
meeting
because
of
having
a
host
and
the
financial
resources
they
bring.
Some
of
those
may
not
be
available,
but
I,
don't
I,
don't
know
that
that
funding
would
be
detrimental
to
things
like
travel
grants
or
dni
efforts
already
underway,
because
we'd
have
different
sponsors.
For
that.
I
You
know,
you'll
feel
you'll,
probably
notice
a
difference
in
not
having
that
extra
resources.
In
terms
of
you
know
the
shiny
fun
things
that
we
can
do
they're.
You
know
cash
bars
versus
open
bars.
Things
like
that,
but
no
I,
don't
I,
don't
know
that
there's
a
direct
correlation
between
our
dni
efforts
and
and
having
a
host
I
don't
know.
Does
anyone
else
want
to
weigh
in
on
that.
B
Yeah
I'll
just
say
things:
programs
like
sisters
and
some
of
the
some
of
the
other
programs
that
are
typically
part
of
it
are
dni.
Efforts
aren't
tied
to
specific
meeting
hosting.
So
we
don't
have
a
host
for
ietf
118
at
this
point,
but
we
do
still
have
expect
to
have
all
the
dni
programs
and
other
kinds
of
programs
that
are
fall
under
that
yeah.
E
C
So
I
think
Jay
was
telling
me
that
there
were
some
conversations
but
yeah.
This
might
be
too
early,
but
Andrew.
If
you
have
any
connects,
feel
free
to
reach
out
to
me
and
Jake
and
as
well
as
Greg
and
let's
see
if
we
can
do
something
more
better.
We
were
discussing
some
things
with
the
AP
Nick
folks
as
well.
So
one
interesting
thing
that
I
heard
from
some
folks
in
the
AP
Nick
is
though
they
are
based
in
Brisbane.
C
They
sometimes
feel
like
you
know,
AP
Nick
is
Asia
Pacific
and
if
the
meeting
is
much
more
in
Southeast,
Asia
or
somewhere
new,
they
are
much
more
comfortable
rather
than
when
it
is
very
much
based
in
Brisbane,
so,
which
was
kind
of
surprising.
I
was
not
expecting
that
answer,
but
yeah,
that's
how
things
works
and
how
but
yeah
do
connect
us
I,
think
more
people
that
we
know
and
also
not
just
with
respect
to
host
and
other
things,
but
even
with
respect
to
outreach
and
lot
other
things,
they
can
definitely
help.
H
A
All
right
so
I
think
what
we're
gonna
do
in
the
process
of
all
of
this
conversation,
we
sort
of
combined
items
two
and
three
so
I
think
we're
going
to
move
right
on
to
four
and
agenda
items.
Four
and
five
both
sort
of
came
out
of
discussions
at
the
the
plenary
I.
We
had
hoped
that
one
of
the
persons
who
asked
to
have
this
on
on
one
of
these
on
here
was
going
to
be
here
today,
but
he
was
unavailable.
A
E
E
So
apart
from
the
obvious
sort
of
diversity
measures,
the
gender
ethnicity
Etc,
all
which
is
important,
yeah
and
absolutely
it's
a
whole
lot
better
on
those
sort
of
measures
to
me,
I
think
the
fundamental
one
is
diversity
of
thought
which,
in
my
view,
is
sadly
lacking
in
the
community,
because
there's
not
enough
difference
of
background
of
people
in
terms
of
things
that
they
do
and
communities
that
they
come
from.
So
you
mentioned
about
the
sort
of
you
know:
igf
and
the
multi-stakeholder
model.
That's
obviously
prevalent
there.
E
In
my
opinion,
this
is
where
people
can
jump
on
me
and
disagree.
It's
completely
lacking
in
the
ITF
and
that's
a
major
problem,
because
you
get
better
standards
with
a
more
diverse
Community,
yeah
I've
said
before
I
think
a
lack
of
the
end
user
Community
is
a
huge
flaw
and
needs
to
be
fixed
because
we're
making
standards
that
the
end
user
Community
might
care
little
about
or
might
think,
are
completely
ridiculous
and
we
don't
always
bother
to
ask
them
so.
D
Push
back
a
little
bit
on
that,
because
you
have
a
specific
item
in
mind
right
and
that
is
currently
very
much
a
minority
view
of
the
IDF
and
saying
that
you're
not
going
to
push
a
diversity
system
in
general
with.
Basically
your
hobby
horse
is
a
little
bit
disingenical
I
think
we
we
do
actually
try
to
let
everybody
speak
in
mind
and
the
diversity
issues
really
about
getting
new
groups
of
you
know.
B
E
So,
to
expand
a
little
without
trying
to
go
too
far.
Yes,
that's
part
of
it,
but
it's
also.
You
know
if
you
have
a
bunch
of
people
from
different
geographies,
I,
think
yeah
by
the
way,
I
think
that's
really
important
to
improve
the
geographic
diversity,
but
if
you've
got
a
bunch
of
I
I'll
pick
on
a
company
just
at
random.
E
E
Yeah
I've
seen
videos
of
of
companies
talking
about
diversity
and
they
show
that
their
gender
diversity
their
board
is
exactly
50,
50.
fantastic.
But
then,
when
you
hear
the
individual
speak,
it's
like
you,
you've
got
say
15
clones,
so
yeah
well
done,
but
you've
got
no
diversity
of
thought.
So
you
need
to
have
those
different
backgrounds,
those
different
experiences,
not
just
the
sort
of
traditional
axes.
C
Okay,
just
Andrew
one
Turning
Point
spacely
from
somebody
who,
who
is
from
a
region
where
we
don't
see
anyone
or
less
people
I.
Think,
like
you
know,
I,
would
kind
of
argue
that
that's
not
all
people
working
for
the
same
company
have
the
same
background
and
we
are
also
end
users
at
the
end
of
the
day.
So
we
do
bring
in
those
experiences
as
well
when
we
come
and
participate
in
the
ITF
and
in
ITF
as
we
say
that
we
wear
multiple
hats
and
that's
true.
C
Sometimes
I
am
representing
my
organizations
or
my
country,
or
even
ITF
and
IV
in
service.
So
it's
not
as
black
and
white
but
I.
Nobody
can
say
that,
like
you
know,
more
diversity
is
bad.
That's
never
going
to
be
a
thing.
Of
course.
We
would
like
more
and
more
diversity,
but
I
I
would
not
call
it
so
black
and
white.
Maybe.
E
I
was
deliberately
exaggerating
to
sort
of
might
make
a
point,
but
that
that's
fair
and
in
case
I
didn't
answer.
Greg's
Point
yeah,
the
different
sort
of
roles,
I
think,
is
also
important.
So
you
mentioned
Network
operators,
yeah
I,
think
that
would
be
useful,
I
think
end
user
companies.
You
know
think
of
Enterprises
I've,
said
before
I
think
having
some
cisos
involved
the
thing
about
Paul's
area.
It
would
be
really
useful
to
give
us
a
practitioner
view
on
on
on
on
security
practices.
It
will
be
helpful
and
so
on
yeah.
A
I
think,
to
some
extent
the
you
know
the
different
backgrounds,
the
different
roles
that
you
come
from
does
play
A,
Part
I,
don't
know
how
I
think
we're
driven
heavily
right
now
to
to
measure
things
and
to
measure
and
to
get
numbers
and
I.
Think
that's
where
it's
a
little
bit
more
challenging
to
get
numbers
I
mean
you.
A
A
You
know
vertical
area
of
the
tech
industry,
it's
really
sort
of
like
the
lower
half
and
then
there's
like
the
web,
and
all
of
these
things
that
are
above
it
and
I
feel
like.
If
you
look
at
at
the
the
genders
that
tend
to
migrate
towards
Hardware
design
versus
the
ones
that
tend
to
migrate
towards
of
I
mean
this
is
rash.
Generalizations
that
I
I've
been
on
an
industrial
Advisory
board
for
electrical
engineering
department
for
years
and
years
and
years,
and
we
keep
discussing
this
and
they're.
A
I
think
we're
being
a
tad
on
I
know.
This
is
terribly
unpopulated,
so
I
think
we're
being
a
tad
unfair
by
just
comparing
the
gender
diversity
of
the
ietf
with
the
tech
industry,
because
I
think
I
think
if
you
combine
IEEE
and
ietf
and
w3c
took
that
set
of
people,
and
then
you
compare
them
to
tech
industry,
then
maybe
you
get
a
better
representation
of
the
industry.
A
Is
it
is,
it
is
skewed,
but
you
know
I
I've
been
doing
time,
synchronization
stuff
in
the
IEEE
for
years
and
I
can
tell
you
like
the
time.
Synchronization
group
is
almost
exclusively
male
and
it's
it's
a
nice,
it's
a
it
has
I
won't
say
it
has
none
of
the
cultural
issues
of
the
IHF,
but
it
had
it's
a
it's.
A
warm
friendly,
welcoming
group
of
people.
D
A
A
small
community,
but
it's
just
there's
not
that
many
women
doing
that
work,
and
so,
if
there's
not
that
many
women
doing
that
work,
it's
hard
to
get
them
to
participate
in
the
standards
to
develop
it.
So
anyway,
we
are
at
a
quarter.
Two
so
Greg
asks
in
the
chat.
People
have
suggestions
about
the
particular
accesses
that
we
haven't
talked
about
yet
I
I
think
we've
talked
about
a
couple
of
them,
I,
don't
know
if
I
think
they've
been
mentioned
in
various
places,
so.
A
J
For
example,
if
you
know
the
developing
of
protocols
is
yes,
as
you
said
mostly,
it's
that's.
You
know
sequestered
almost
in
about
by
gender,
but
you
know
if
you,
if,
if,
for
example,
the
ITF
were
to
do
more
things
like-
and
this
is
where
you
bring
in
the
users-
the
impact
of
of
the
protocol
that
we're
developing
the
impact
of
the
architectural,
you
know
modalities
and
methods
and
directions,
we're
taking
and
and
having
people
do,
that
kind
of
sort
of
second
order.
J
Work
than
you
might
see
it
broader,
I
think
the
other
thing
it's
funny,
I,
don't
think
of
the
ietf
as
a
multi-stakeholder
organization,
because
multi-stakeholder
usually
means
multi-stakeholder,
groupism,
I,
I,
think
of
the
ietf.
Basically
it's
in
any
stakeholder
group
and
and
in
that
you
basically
find
that
when
your
stakeholder
mix
is
based
on
grouping
of
peoples
which
iatf
pretty
much
assiduously
avoids
unless
it's
by
area,
you
know
it's
hard,
then
to
reach
out
for
a
few
more
of
those
reach
out
for
a
few
more
of
those.
J
J
So
that
was
probably
my
intent
ly
and
and
not
to
talk
about
other
things
and
but
but
it's
also
when
doing
specific
outreaches
boy,
we
could
really
use
an
expert
from
such
and
such
it
happens
in
I.
Cannot
when
we're
dealing
with
you
know,
script,
usage
and
and
language
usage
and
and
domain
names
with
different
scripts,
then
we
can
say:
oh,
we
really
need
someone
that
knows
that
script
can
we
go
find
one
and
and
and
pull
them
in
and
so
I
don't
know.
J
If
there's
a
direct
correlation
in
ITF,
you
know
mentioned
having
used
it
or
used
to
have
one
way
back
when,
but
that
didn't
seem
to
to
to
last
into
into
current
days.
So
I
I
think
you
can
and
I
think
you
are
I
mean
I
I
have
been
since
I
got
less
involved
with
ietf
than
I
had
been.
You
know
in
my
pre-history
and
you
sort
of
take
a
look
and
say
wow.
It
is
a
lot
more
diverse
now
than
10
years
ago.
So
there
is
that
sort
of
progressive
each
year.
J
It
doesn't
look
like
it
gets
any
better,
but
you,
if
you
take
sort
of
a
bigger,
hop
and
I'll
stop
now
so,
but
thank
you.
I
really
really
just
wanted
to
listen
and
say
figure
out
how
far
you
all
had,
gotten
and
and
and
so
on.
It's
I'm
still
ATF,
but
I
haven't
spent
much
time
there
in
the
last
six
years.
A
Yeah
I
do
think
you're
right
about
the
kind
of
work
that
we
do
and
I
remember
years
ago
there
was
discussions
about
apis
and
folks
are
like
well,
the
ietf
doesn't
do
apis,
I
mean
I,
think
that's
sort
of
like
one
of
those
areas
where,
if
your
work
is
this,
then
you're
just
drawing
the
people
that
are
doing
that
work,
but
that's
appropriate
as
well.
Go
ahead.
Somebody
who
just
joined
the
queue
Glee
Lee
Berkeley
I.
I
Think
you
know
talking
about
tasks,
I'm
wondering
if
you
know
we,
we
spend
a
lot
of
time
looking
at
this
sort
of
the
big
picture,
but
the
the
comment
about
you
know
taking
the
tasks
and
stealing
them
it
made
me
think
you
know.
Maybe
we
need
to
bring
this
down
to
the
micro
level
a
little
bit
and
if
we
want
to
move
the
needle
think
about
some
very
specific
tasks
that
that
could
that
are
obtainable
and
doable
and
not
so
complex
and
stressful
and
time
consuming.
I
So
it
just
does
a
little
example
in
looking
for
sponsorship
and
Partnerships
for
Brisbane,
Stephanie
and
I
have
been
talking
with
norelle
Clark
at
the
Australian
internet
Association
they
have
a
sister's
program.
So
as
that
talk
continues,
one
of
the
things
we
mentioned
to
our
passing
was
at
some
point.
We
love
to
look
up
your
sister's
group
with
our
sisters
group
just
to
get
people
talking,
that's
a
pretty
easy
task,
but
it's
one
that
that
that
in
theory,
maybe
it
can
make
some
connects.
I
That
way,
and
if
we
have
some
success,
then
right
we
continue
it
and
if
we
find
that
it's
not
moving
the
needle
enough
or
it's
not
being
well
received
or
whatever
the
dynamic
is,
then
maybe
we
stop.
But
but
maybe
maybe
in
looking
at
the
big
picture.
We
could
also
just
try
some
micro
tasks
to
see
if
it
if
it
gets
us
anywhere.
A
C
C
We
specifically
said
that,
yes,
we
are
doing
an
educational
Outreach,
but
I
would
want
to
make
sure
that
there
are
enough
women
participants
in
the
classrooms
and
even
as
the
speakers
and
the
same
thing,
what
you
are
suggesting
with
respect
to
the
geographical
route
reach
in
Australia,
we
can
continue
to
think
in
different
access
and
bring
diversity
across
all
groups,
so
it
shouldn't
be.
Look
at.
This
is
geographic
diversity.
This
is
gender
diversity,
no
they're
all
interlinked,
and
we
should
try
to
do
them
together.
Thanks.
D
Yeah
I
just
also
want
to
comment
on
the
fact
that
for
working
group
chairs
it
actually
over
the
birth
people
are
really
trying
to
make
them
more
diverse.
Both
the
ads
have
putting
in
efforts
but
even
chairs
themselves.
I
have
chairs
who
say
like
I
would
like
to
resign
from
this
working
group.
So
once
you
find
a
diverse
chair,
let
me
know,
and
then
I
will
resign.
So
they're
they're
also
trying
to
actually
really
steer
this
and
help
in
in
trying
to
to
get
our
chairs
to
be
much
more
diverse.
D
Iphone
have
a
working
group
that
might
be
closing
down.
That
has
a
diverse
chair
and
I
really
want
to
try
and
keep
that
chair
in
another
working
group,
but
but
we're
at
the
you
know
the
top
of
the
Pyramid
of
like
all
these
previous
selections
and
biases.
That
have
happened
right
and
it's
really.
It's
really
hard
for
us
on
our
own
to
change
that,
and
we.
H
Guess
linking
that
to
to
Drew
what
you
were
saying
about
the
kind
of
ietf
session
at
the
igf
coming
up
and
and
I
sat
in
on
the
the
IHF
kind
of
presentation
at
ripe
earlier
this
year
with
the
kind
of
network
operator,
community
and
I.
Think
that,
like
I
guess,
that
could
be
a
really
useful
data
point
in
terms
of
seeing
how
those
communities
kind
of
perceive
the
ietf
and
kind
of
any
potential
challenges
that
they
see
in
being
more
fully
involved
and
and
making
sure
that
that
is
fed
back.
C
Yeah,
but
that's
excellent
idea,
in
fact,
as
a
part
of
iib
Outreach
coordinator,
this
is
one
of
the
action
item
that
I
have
kept
for
myself,
that,
after
the
events,
we
try
to
do
a
little
bit
of
measurement
right
now,
it's
anecdotal.
We
decided
that,
let's
start
with
anecdotal
data,
that
what
feedback
that
we
get
out
of
the
event
and
at
the
latest
stage,
once
we
have
something
we
can
maybe
think
about
doing,
surveys
and
and,
of
course,
fitting
into
what
works
well
in
the
community
that
we
are
going
into.
C
B
Just
to
say
that
I
think
this
is
a
persistent
challenge
for
the
ITF,
which
is
to
get
to
understand
what
people
who
are
not
in
the
ITF
are
perceiving
or
thinking
about
the
ITF.
So
this
is
definitely
something
that
comes
up
as
a
general
case.
One
of
the
things
that
we
did
when
we
redesigned
the
ITF
website
was
actually
this
was
about
six
or
seven
years
ago.
B
Now
is
we
we
did
interviews
of
people
who
were
non-participants
and
who
were
not
even
potential
participants,
but
just
non-participants.
They
were
never
going
to
participate
and
we
got
some
really
interesting
insights,
and
that
might
be
something
we
consider
doing
in
in
another
Forum
to
help
us
understand
how
the
ITF
is
perceived
outside
of
the
people
who
already
come
to
the
ITF.
E
Andrew
two
brief
points.
One
is
since
I've
got
to
mention
it,
but
when
we
didn't
really
have
time
in
the
last
meeting,
I
think
there's
a
lot
of
really
good
learning
points
in
occurring.
Cath's,
Beth's,
PhD
thesis
on
the
culture
of
the
ITF,
which
at
least
bear
reading
and
thinking
about
on
on
the
general
cultural
sort
of
issues,
and
she
does
touch
on
some
things
which
affect
diversity
as
well.
E
It
was
about
the
right
plane
length
to
to
read
the
report
and
then,
secondly,
just
to
agree
with
Merrick's
Point.
You
know
in
the
spirit
of
I,
do
believe
you
get
what
you
measure.
Jay
gives
really
excellent
presentation
at
the
ITF
plenary
which
tells
us
about
you
know
various
things
bring
out
some
of
the
data
that
the
the
LLC
team
collect
and
we
generally
the
community
ignores
even
though
they
studiously
connect.
E
It
I
wonder
if
they
could
be
encouraged
to
maybe
expand
this
presentation
slightly
to
show
the
Trends
on
some
of
whatever
we
agree
are
the
right
diversity
measures.
You
know,
how
are
we
doing
on
diversity
measures
say
over
five
years,
improving
or
getting
worse
and
so
on.
Yeah
geography,
Etc
because
of
the
average
point,
was
really
well
made
that
it's
a
lot
better
now
than
it
was
I'm
sure,
that's
true
and
perhaps
looking
at
the
are
we
at
least
heading
in
the
direction
in
the
right
direction.
A
A
I
think
we
would
I'd
strongly
encourage
people
to
think
about
it
and
post
to
the
mailing
list.
Also
I,
don't
I
think
it
was
Lee
Berkeley
who
said
somebody
said
the
term.
It
was
like
micro
efforts
or
micro,
something
but
like
little
small
things
that
we
could
try
and
do
so
I
think
any
suggestions
for
those
would
be
great.
I
would
also
like
to
remind
folks
that
the
eodar
is
is
about
coordinating
activities
that
other
folks
are
doing.
So
it's
not.
A
It
would
be
really
helpful
if
you
were
to
come
here
and
say:
I
have
an
idea.
We
should
do
this,
and
I
am
happy
to
do
it.
So
so
that'll
help
us
with
that
part
of
it,
and
the
final
thing
I
really
did
want
to
reinforce
what
Aubry
said
about
it.
I
do
think
the
ietf
is
is,
is
better
both
culturally
and
and
from
A
diversity
perspective.
A
Now
than
it
was
10
years
ago
and
I
think
we're
as
we're
getting
more
and
more
aware
of
it,
we
are
talking
about
it
more
and
it
a
lot
of
conversations
are
of
the
nature
of
the
sky
is
falling
and,
oh,
my
goodness
it's
it's
it's
you
know:
everything's
Falling,
In,
Pieces,
but
I
do
think
we're
improving
I
think
we
just
need
to
continue
that
Improvement
and
it's
not
going
to
change
overnight
so
be
nice
to
each
other.
That's
the
first
step
in
in
improving
the
culture.