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From YouTube: Cardano Monthly Update - September 2020
Description
Tune in for the latest edition of our monthly show, where we bring you all the freshest news on Cardano development and all the latest news from the ecosystem. Join your hosts Tim Harrison & Aparna Jue to hear updates from across the ecosystem!
If you are a developer interested in learning more about building on Cardano, please get in touch via these forms:
Marlowe: https://input-output.typeform.com/to/mZgCnEKD
Plutus: https://input-output.typeform.com/to/F3zrU7ij
Timestamps
0:01 Opening discussion.
04:56 Parameters update, which includes a discussion of game theory, network evolution and changes to crucial settings.
16:14 Daedalus Update featuring new releases and news about hardware wallets\multi-delegation.
25:21 Update on metadata news including a technical overview, Atala collaboration, and the future of international adoption of Cardano.
37:30 Project Catalyst update including news about upcoming funds and the response from Catalyst participants.
50:00 The Goguen developer experience, onboarding new builders, and marketing initiatives.
1:22:10 Marlowe update to introduce Marlowe and Plutus and highlight our key partnership with Actus
1:30:00 The emerging discussion of native-assets on Cardano and the ERC20 convertor.
1:44:00 Building the developer experience with John Hughes from QuviQ,
1:59:30 Charles Hoskinson in conversation with Ben Goertzel about the recent announcement with Cardano and SingularityNET.
A
A
B
B
Yes-
and
you
know
in
in-
and
this
is
specifically
for
gogan
right
so
gogen-
there
is
a
lot
of
wen
gogan,
but
it's
more
so
I'd
like
to
focus
on
the
what
is
gogen
and
and
the.
Why
are
we
doing
gogan
and
even
the
how?
Because
these
are
the
things
that
are
going
to
make
this
product
successful
in
the
long
term?
So
gogan
has
multiple
areas,
multiple
parts
and
it's
not
just
gogan
that
we're
working
on
you
know.
We've
got
a
lot
going
on
with
voltaire,
as
you
guys
have
been
seeing.
B
Two
and
a
half
thousand
people
have
signed
up
for
for
project
catalyst,
so
great
success
there
for
fun
too,
and
then
there's
also
things
in
the
identity
portion.
There's
experiences
that
we're
doing
with
shelley
for
delegators
and
stake
pool
operators.
There's
deadless
updates.
I
mean
there's
quite
a
bit:
partnerships
and
marketing
and
everything
that
we're
going
on
under
the
hood.
So
yes,
lots
of
moving
parts.
You
got
that
right,
so
gogan.
A
B
Yeah,
so
technically,
there
are
three
phases
right,
so
there's
well
in
a
way,
there's
almost
four
there's
the
metadata
piece
that
starts
first,
it's
a
little
bit
of
shelly,
but
we'll
talk
we'll
talk
about
that
in
the
show.
Then
there's
the
multi-asset
ledger
piece
before
before
you
get
into
the
actual
monetary
policies
with
plutus
and
then
there's
another
piece
that
that
is
kind
of
out
there
in
terms
of
usability
from
an
application
standpoint
and
that's
marlow,
and
what
we're
doing
with
marlow
and
we'll
talk
about
that
in
this
show
as
well.
B
However,
it's
it's
not
just
that
from
a
tech
technology
standpoint
or
what
we're
launching
from
a
product
standpoint.
It's
also
about
how
we're
doing
it
so,
for
example,
there's
the
developer
onboarding
and
the
marketing
angle
like
how
do
we
get
developers
onto
the
the
platform?
What
are
we
working
on
with
the
cf
to
allow
for
that?
Then
there's
a
developer
experience
piece.
B
B
For
example,
erc20
there's
going
to
be
some
discussion
around
that
during
the
show
testing
platforms,
testing
frameworks,
how
do
we
provide
robust
testing
tools
for
for
developers
to
code
and
then
finally,
utility
in
terms
of
the
developers
that
are
not
haskellers
or
that?
Are
that
don't
want
to
go
that
way
and
more,
you
know
more
use
case
oriented
so
whether
it's
financial
contracts
or
whether
it's
a
certain
other
type
of
a
thing,
maybe
a
low
code,
easier
method
of
being
able
to
put
smart
contracts
together
that
portion
as
well
so
user
experience.
A
Okay,
so
before
we
get
into
that,
maybe
let's
just
touch
on
shelly
and
give
a
little
bit
of
an
update
on
where
we
are
there,
because
of
course,
it's
not
over
yet
shelley
is
still
continuing
to
evolve,
still
continuing
to
improve
and
be
optimized
and
and
we've
kind
of
been
looking
at
it
from
a
couple
of
different
angles.
Haven't
we
about
how
we
kind
of
move
that
experience
forwards.
B
Yes,
and
from
that,
it's
all
about
the
user.
So
from
a
product
management
standpoint
we
focus
on
the
user
in
the
market
and
for
shelley,
it's
about
stake,
pool
operators
that
are
running
the
network
and
it's
about
delegators
that
are
delegating
on
the
network.
So
those
are
the
two
experiences
that
we're
focused
on.
A
And
obviously,
we've
seen
remarkable
growth
in
stateful
operators
and
the
community
around
that
since
july,
and
that's
a
significant
part
of
how
we
need
to
evolve
the
network.
So
let's
maybe
start
with
talking
a
little
bit
about
that.
So
I
actually
caught
up
with
some
of
the
members
of
the
team
who
are
currently
looking
at
that
stake,
pool
operator
experience,
particularly
around
the
area
of
parameters
and
where
we
go
with
that
to
support
the
ecosystem
longer
term.
So
we're
going
to
show
a
clip
now,
there's
a
much
longer
interview.
C
In
bitcoin,
the
problem
is
that
people
I
mean
if
they
just
care
about
maximizing
their
profit,
they
tend
to
flock
into
pools
and
and
somehow
the
bigger
pool
becomes,
the
the
less
overhead
there
is
with
the
cost.
So
so
the
pools
tend
to
become
bigger
and
bigger
and
which
is
the
opposite
of
decentralization,
because
we
end
up
with
a
few
very
powerful
tools
pools.
C
So
we
try
to
as
katarina
explained
design
the
system
so
that
that
doesn't
happen
in
cardano
and
for
that
one
very
important
parameter.
Is
this
k
parameter
so
the
the
ideal
number
of
pools
we
want,
which
at
the
moment
is
set
at
150?
But
there's
debate
about
changing
that,
and
so
the
idea
is
that
once
a
pool
reaches
this,
this
limit
of
one
over
150
in
our
case
then
the
rewards,
then
it
doesn't
get
more
rewards
and
so
people
pools
can
become
bigger
can
can
become
larger.
C
So
there
is
no
hard
limit,
so
it's
not
forbidden
by
the
protocol,
but
just
the
rewards
don't
grow
anymore
if
a
pool
becomes
too
large.
So
if
players
are
or
delegators
are
indeed
rational,
then
they
wouldn't
delegate
to
a
pool
if
it
becomes
too
large,
because
then
everybody
gets
less
profits.
So
that's.
C
Exactly
exactly
so,
if
a
pool
I
mean
basically,
the
best
situation
is.
If
a
pool
is
exactly
saturated,
then
the
rewards
are
highest.
But
if
it
grows
beyond
that,
then
because
the
pool
rewards
don't
increase
any
longer,
but
it's
more
and
more
people
that
share
this
capped
amount
of
rewards.
Then
everybody
every
individual
delegator
would
get
less.
So
it's
important
that
they
keep
an
eye
on
it
and
if
a
pool
is
too
large,
they
should
delegate
to
a
smaller
pool
and.
A
C
Right
I
mean
I
talked
about
the
the
cave,
so
the
saturation
point
basically
determines
how
large
a
pool
can
grow
until
it
doesn't
get
more
rewards,
and
that
of
course
creates
a
problem
that
somebody
could
be
very
sneaky
and
say:
okay,
but
I
want
to
have
a
bigger
pool.
So
I
just
create
two
pools,
and
I
pretend
that
I'm
somebody
else
I
mean
I
don't
tell
anybody
that
it's
both
pools
belong
to
me.
C
I
mean
it's
just
an
ip
address
or
some
public
key,
so
people
don't
know,
and
I
could
just
set
up
lots
and
lots
of
pools
and
let
all
of
them
grow
to
to
this
saturation
points.
And
then
people
would
think
everything
is
perfectly
decentralized
lots
of
small
pools,
but
in
reality
I
own
all
of
them
and
that's
called
a
civil
attack,
and
that
is
critical.
I
mean
we
have
to
think
of
how
to
prevent
that
and
that's
where
another
important
parameter
comes
in.
C
The
hope
is
that
if
somebody
does
that-
and
we
can't
prevent
that,
but
if
somebody
does
that
those
pools
will
be
less
attractive
to
the
community
and
then
delegators
won't
delegate
to
those
pools.
So
that's
this
a0
parameter
that
determines
how
high
this
influence
is
between
your
own.
This
pledge
delegating
to
your
own
pool
and
the
rewards.
A
Let's
bring
in
colin
now
because,
as
you
say,
lars
this
there's
a
lot
of
things
to
consider,
there's
enormous
complexity
behind
the
scenes
with
it
comes
that
flexibility
and
that
adaptability,
but
it
is
challenging
getting
to
a
point
that
keeps
keeps
all
parts
of
the
ecosystem
happy.
I
guess
big
discussions
also
around
the
change
in
some
of
the
key
parameters
like
the
k
parameter,
which
ultimately
will
affect
basically
how
different
pools
do,
respectively,
whether
the
larger
pools
tend
to
dominate
whether
you
get
a
much
more
even
spread
across
the
network.
A
D
Well,
in
terms
of
the
long-term
direction,
that's
largely
set
by
our
researchers
so
that
we're
kind
of
working
within
that
as
a
constraint
and
then
coming
out
with
a
plan.
So
if
you
can
imagine
a
road
trip,
we're
going,
you
know
the
the
research
might
say
we're
going
to
edinburgh
and
our
product
team
builds
us
a
tour
bus
and
I'm
kind
of
google
maps.
Saying
turn
left
here
and
in
terms
of
our
current
thinking,
I
think
we're
going
to
have
a
couple
changes.
One
of
them
is
our
own
staking
pools.
D
I
think
one
of
the
challenges
when
we
talk
about
things
like
a
nash,
equilibrium
or
a
long-term
stable
model,
is
that
transition
process
of
how
do
pools,
initially
attract
delegation
and
build
up.
You
know
a
business
and
a
brand
and
a
franchise,
and
that
may
be
challenging
in
an
environment
where
you
can't
necessarily
directly
reach
out
and
contact
your
customers,
for
example,
in
the
staking
business
that
it's
there's
a
degree
of,
maybe
not
anonymity,
but
but
maybe
sudan
amenity
in
there,
where
it
makes
kind
of
managing
a
brand
challenging.
D
D
But
again
this
is
one
where
doing
this
in
a
way
that's
safe.
Obviously,
we
have
security
concerns
over
how
we
manage
our
own
funds,
whether
they're
on
hardware
wallets
and
there's
just
a
limit
in
somebody
punching
the
codes
in.
So
we
have
to
think
about
how
those
kind
of
things
work
and
managing
that
process,
and
this
is
in
many
ways
very
similar
to
what
other
pool
operators
deal
with,
who
are
also
trying
to
come
out
with
a
business
plan
and
manage
their
funds
and
and
look
at
how
these
changes
are
affecting
them.
D
So
we've
been
quite
involved
in
providing
feedback
and
we
work
very
closely
with
many
of
the
other
stake
pool
operators.
I
know
I've
been
attending
many
of
the
calls
recently
and
getting
more
involved
in
that
community
because
they
share
many
of
the
same
concerns
we
do
on
how
we're
going
to
make
this
work.
A
E
So
the
current
pool
leaders
may
be
going
to
avoid
the
competition
and
they
don't
want
a
new
pool
to
register,
maybe
because,
if
a
new
pool
has
a
very
good
characteristic
can
be
competitive
and
like
maybe
this
could
make
them
lower
their
margin
and
so
on.
So
we
would
like
to
to
find
then
a
decent
solution
mechanism,
a
mechanism
that
will
incentivize
the
pool
operators
to
include
the
such
transactions
and,
of
course,
in
this
case,
if
there
is
like
just
one
pool
that
is,
for
example,
honest
follows
on
always
the
instruction.
E
Then
this
transaction
will
be
added,
but
given
that
in
our
model
incentives
we
we
we
consider
all
that
all
the
users
are
rational.
We
don't
consider
that
they
follow
the
protocol
if
this
does
not
maximize
their
profit.
We
have
like
to
solve
this
without
assuming
that
a
pool
will
add
these
transactions,
and
we
are
in
the
process
like
to
to
find
this
and
decision
mechanism
and
like
to
solve.
A
So
thanks
there
to
katarina
lars
and
to
colin
for
their
time,
as
I
say,
there's
a
link
to
a
longer
version
of
that
video
over
on
youtube.
If
you
want
to
have
a
bit
of
a
deep
dive
into
the
complexities
and
the
flexibility
of
setting
parameters,
to
kind
of
encourage
the
growth
of
the
network
and
that
that
balancing
that
we
talked
about
so,
let's
maybe
move
now
back
to
the
delegation
experience
upon.
Of
course,
central
to
that
is
is
deadless.
B
So
it's
it's
deadless
and
it's
also
the
hardware
wallets
I
mean
there's,
there's
an
ecosystem
of
how
people
delegate
and
from
where
they
delegate
and
we've
done
a
few
focus
groups
with
stake,
pool
operators
even
on
on
how
to
even
get
into
the
multiple
delegation.
You
know
one
to
end
portion
of
things
which
which
seem
quite
normal
for
for
how
people
want
to
delegate
in
the
future,
and
we've
been
working
very
hard
with
vacuum
labs
on
that.
F
My
name
is
philip
and
I
started
working
for
ihk.
Well,
it's
almost
two
months
since
then.
To
be
honest,
so
I'm
really
glad
to
be
here.
I'm
a
business
analyst
for
wallets.
You
know
daedalus
and
the
backhand
address
yeah
helping
out
here
and
there
as
much
as
I
can.
I've
been
in
the
blockchain
industry
for
a
couple
over
a
couple
of
years
now
already
working
on
various
both
public
and
private
blockchains.
F
A
So
phil
tonight
we're
we're
talking
about
a
few
aspects
of
the
overall
shelley
experience
and
how
we're
evolving
that
and,
of
course,
for
for
delegators
the
the
wallet
interface.
The
deadliest
interface
is
a
is
a
crucial
part
of
that.
So
perhaps
you
can
just
give
us
a
bit
of
a
run
through
about
some
of
the
areas
we
can
expect
to
see
some
changes
and
some
improvements
soon.
A
F
Course,
one
of
the
biggest
changes
that
we
are
introducing
is
that
you
know
so
far.
The
ranking
of
stake
pools
has
been
according
to
the
latest
epoch,
but
from
our
next
upcoming
update
will
we
want
to
provide
you
with
a
more
let's
say,
real-time
experience,
so
we
are
actually
using
live
stake
to
rank
the
stake
polls
right
now,
so
you
should
see
an
improvement
in
that
part
within
the
next
update.
Basically,.
B
Yeah,
that's
actually
a
great
feature
for
for
for
our
state
pool
rankings,
because
that
was
one
of
the
more
controversial
topics
if
you
can
may
about
how
we're
actually
putting
these
rankings
together
and
and
as
you
can
tell
we're
constantly
trying
to
to
fiddle
with
with
the
inputs
and
the
outputs
to
make
that
a
much
better
ranking
experience
for
delegators
to
choose
from
so
here's.
The
other
thing,
though,
we're
also
doing
something
that
I
know
everybody's
been
excited
about
and
that's
the
automatic
updates
right.
Phillip,
yes,.
F
That's
true,
so
it's
been
one
of
the
bigger
pains,
let's
say
indeed
the
loss,
at
least
from
my
point
of
view
as
a
user.
So
right
now
we
will
have
a
new
user
experience
for
updates.
So
once
you
once
we
roll
out
the
next
flight
release,
you
will
see
a
new
type
of
notifications
which
is
going
to
be
marked
with
a
small
green
dot.
F
You
know
in
the
sidebar
and
unfortunately
not
unfortunately,
of
course,
but
for
the
first
update
you
will
have
to
do
it
manually
and
then
every
next
one,
you
know
will
be
done
automatically
in
a
way.
So
the
the
updates
will
be
rolled
out
automatically,
but
you
will
be
prompted
if
you
are
on
mac
and
on
windows.
You'll
be
prompted
to
quit
and
restart
with
the
loose
you
know,
and
if
you're
on
a
linux
operational
system,
then
you
will
be
able
to
update
well
completely
automatically.
A
So
I
understand
the
fight
the
flight
release.
I
understand
there's
going
to
be
two
releases
in
very
quick
succession.
Ultimately,
the
first
one
contains
the
code.
That's
going
to
provide
the
functionality
and
then
the
second
one,
if
you
like,
is,
is
the
test
of
it
and
then
once
all
that's
done
we're
in
business
precisely.
F
B
That's
right,
so
I
was
just
going
to
say:
darko
is
actually
sick
and
he's
out
today,
but
he's
putting
together
a
video
that's
going
to
accompany
the
release.
That's
that's
upcoming
for
the
flights
that
everybody's
going
to
see,
and
the
other
big
thing
I
wanted
to
talk
about
was
smash.
I
know
there's
been
some
discussions
in
the
community
forum
about
what
we
are
doing
with
that
it
is
in
beta,
because
smash
is
actually
in
a
service.
It's
a
policy,
and
it's
also
a
feature
in
my
opinion.
B
So
there's
a
lot
that
underlines
how
we
would
list
and
de-list
certain
tickers
and
and
how
we
would
help
brand
building
for
stick
pool
operators.
So
that's
something
else.
That's
coming
out
in
in
our
release
and
we'll
have
some
introductory
guidelines
and
and
how
stake
pool
operators
can
actually
go
about,
utilizing
it
or
putting
or
getting
onto
a
d-list
or
getting
onto
a
green
list
or
we'll
we'll
explain
more
of
that
in
another
video
as
well.
B
So
we're
we're
going
to
be
rolling
that
also
in
out
in
flight
this
week,
correct,
okay
and
then
for
the
community.
Philip
has
actually
been
our
product.
Lead
for
hardware
wallets,
along
with
being
the
business
analyst
for
douglas
and
address
data,
so
he's
got
a
lot
on
his
plate
and
we've
been
working
exclusively
with
the
vacuum
labs
on
the
hardware,
wallet
support
with
ledger
and
trezor.
So
philip,
why
don't
you
give
our
audience
kind
of
an
update
on
where
we
are
with
that?
And
what's
next.
F
Sure,
thanks
aparna,
so
this
is
one
big
feature.
We
have
been
planning
for
a
couple
of
months
right
now.
We
want
to
provide
an
option
for
our
staple
operators
and
stakeholders,
of
course,
to
delegate
and
basically
pledge
their.
You
know,
stake
more
secure
using
hardware.
So
hardware
is
more
more
precisely
legend
trezor,
so
we've
been
working
with
vacuum
labs
for
a
bit
more
than
a
month.
F
Now,
in
you
know,
providing
this
experience
to
them,
and
also
one
big
chunk
of
that
work
also
is
the
ability
to
delegate
to
multiple
pools
so
from
one
wallet
to
mult
to
multiples
more
than
one
pool,
so
we
we
hope
that
that
those
let's
say
features
will
also
be
released
in
the
next
couple
of
months.
They
are
pretty
big.
F
We
unfortunately,
we
also,
you
know,
depend
on
religious
guide,
but
we
have
a
great
relationship
with
them
and
I
have
no
doubt
that
it
will
be
ruled
out
without
many
problems
for
sports,
like
that,
if
we
said
any,
that
would
be.
You
know
an
ideal
world,
but
let's
say
that
you
know
without
many
problems,
so
hopefully
we'll
have
it
all
soon.
That
will
support
it.
We
in
one
of
the
next
releases
by
the
end
of
the
year-
I
hope
as
well
for
sure.
B
Yeah,
that's
a
great
point
and
tim.
You
know
that's
one
of
the
things
you
and
I
were
talking
about.
How
do
we
get
more
focused
focus
groups
if
you
may
running
community
events
around
delegators
and
state
pool
operators?
The
delegation
piece:
that's
a
huge
piece
from
hardware
wallets
we're
going
to
we're
going
to
try
to
redo
that
also
one-to-one
parity
in
dead
list
as
much
as
possible.
B
So
we
have
a
delegation
center
of
some
sort
there
and
we're
doing
the
same
things
around
catalyst,
and
I
know
I'm
bringing
in
some
of
the
other
aspects
here,
but
daedalus
is
going
to
be
one
of
those
products
that
can
evolve
to
take
a
couple
of
these
centers
for
stake,
pool
operators
and
delegators
in
general.
So
that's!
This
is
one
of
the
first
pieces.
So
thank
you,
phillip,
for
managing
that
and
now
doing
a
good
job
and
we're
looking
forward
to
seeing
that
in
the
product.
B
All
right,
so
we
just
caught
up
with
phillip
on
the
deadlift
segment,
so
going
into
another
aspect
of
shelley
that
we
were
focusing
on,
but
we
needed
to
have
before
we
went
into
gogan.
It's
it's
around
metadata
and
metadata
also
enables
cardano
to
start
looking
at
itself
as
a
utility
platform
for
partnerships
and
for
commercial
applications
and
and
proof
of
concepts
and
all
the
exciting
stuff
that
makes
it
usable
in
the
future.
A
A
G
So
they
eventually
it
was
supported
officially
with
op
return,
which
allowed
you
to
add
80
or
40
bytes
of
data
onto
the
blockchain
and
there
it
would
stay.
So
we
fast
forward
to
sort
of
our
third
generation
blockchain
and
the
principle
is
the
same.
You
can
add
data
and
have
it
permanently
available
on
the
blockchain.
So
it's
a
permanent
attestation
of
the
data,
and
so
you
can
do
that
in
a
couple
of
ways.
You
can
add
the
data
directly
or
for
very
large
amounts
of
data.
G
You
can
create
a
merkle
tree
out
of
this
data
and
put
the
root
hash
of
the
merkle
tree
onto
the
blockchain.
So
then,
you
can
offer
proofs
that
that
data
existed
at
a
specific
point
in
time
in
the
past
and
and
those
proofs
will
will
stand
up
to
scrutiny
and
so
there's
a
lot
of
different
sort
of
use
cases.
G
People
are
very
imaginative
about
this,
but
probably
the
one
that's
most
widely
talked
about
is
is
supply
chain,
and
I
I
find
that
one
quite
interesting,
because
if
you
have
like
a
multiple,
if
you
have
multiple
different
authorities,
who
sort
of
have
orthogonal
interests
like
customs
clearance
and
suppliers
and
delivery,
people
and
they're
all
providing
attestations
that
are
interlinked
on
a
binary
level,
then
you're
creating
a
picture
of
a
supply
chain.
That's
that's
very,
very
hard
to
argue
with.
G
The
size
of
the
transaction
data,
or
rather
the
size
of
the
metadata
that
you're
able
to
put
on
the
blockchain,
is
significantly
more
than
what
the
the
guys
had
to
work
with
in
the
beginning.
So
you
can
use
all
of
the
transaction
size
which
is
currently
about
16k
minus
the
size
of
the
rest
of
the
transaction,
which
is
the
utxos,
the
inputs
and
the
outputs.
So
roughly
you
can
depend
on
about
8k
bytes
that
you
can
place
on
the
on
the
blockchain
at
any
time
and
so
in
the
professional
services
group.
G
A
So
alan,
I
think
you've
got
a
good
got
a
demo.
You
can
show
us
in
a
moment,
maybe
just
while
you're
setting
that
up
janelle.
Let's
turn
to
you
for
a
moment,
so
alan
mentioned
use
cases
you've
been
busy
developing
a
tala
all
the
suited
products
there.
Since
we
heard
about
it
at
the
summit.
Perhaps
you
want
to
give
us
a
bit
of
an
update
and
how
that
fits
in
with
metadata.
A
H
Sure,
hi
tim
hi,
everyone
yeah,
the
telesuite,
is
progressing
really
well
as
you,
as
you
mentioned,
we're
currently
focusing
on
completing
the
cardana
integration.
So
for
that
metadata
was
the
missing
functionality.
We've
got
that
now
from
a
prism
perspective.
At
least
the
team
is
aiming
to
be
ready.
With
that
integration
sort
of
mid
to
to
end
october.
H
H
You
also
have
schemas
and
credential
definitions
so
for
the
different
types
of
credentials
you
create
like
certificates
and
birth
records
and
so
on.
Those
schemas
are
stored
on
the
blockchain,
but
none
of
the
personal
identifiable
information
stored
on
the
blockchain.
We
also
have
revocation
registries.
So
if
someone
that
say
a
university
issues
a
certificate
and
they
decide
to
revoke
it,
you
need
to
have
a
place
where
you
know
everyone
has
one
version
of
the
truth,
and
so
we're
also
using
metadata
for
that.
H
So
if
the
university
needs
to
revoke
a
credential,
that's
recorded-
and
you
know,
the
rest
of
the
applications
can
then
know
that
particular
status.
You
know
when
it
relates
to
the
other
two
atala
products,
so
tyler
trace
and
natalia
scan
they're,
also
using
metadata
to
record
tamper-proof
supply
chain
records.
A
G
You
provide
the
depth
that
you
want
the
transaction
to
be
buried
under
so
for
finality.
You
may
want
buried
under
10
transactions
under
two
sorry
under
10
blocks
or
two
blocks,
so
you
specify
that
here
your
client
id
basically
indicates
which
wallet
that
you
that
you
want
to
use
and
then
the
transaction
id
is
for
is
for
failures
and
restarts
where
you
already
have
a
transaction
id.
But
let
me
just
shoot
over
and
show
you
the
the
code
which
was
going
to
call
this.
G
So
this
is
a
simple
scala
client
and
it
generates
the
client
from
that
proto
that
we
just
looked
at,
and
it's
important
to
note
that
there
are
client
generators
for
all
the
languages.
So
there
are
client
generators
for
python.
There
are
client
generators
for
javascript
and
so
on.
So
you
can
put
this.
G
You
can
use
this
service
from
any
of
those
supported
languages.
So
this
is
a
very
simple
client,
but
it's
written
in
scala.
You
create
your
client
here.
You
create
a
simple
map
of
test
metadata
and
then
you
submit
the
request
to
the
service
and
for
every
response
in
the
stream.
You
just
literally
print
it
out
and
then
and
wait
for
the
result.
So,
let's
fire
it
up.
G
So
now
the
state
has
switched
to
in
ledger-
and
this
here
specifies
the
number
of
blocks
that
this
transaction
is
buried
under.
So
currently
it's
buried
under
zero
blocks,
and
then
you
also
have
some
information
around
the
block
that
it
went
into
and
so
on
and
I'll
just
show
that
the
the
number
of
blocks
that
we're
waiting
for
to
be
buried
under
is
two
as
specified
here
in
the
request.
A
H
G
So
really,
if
you
want
to
get
in
touch
and
and
use
this,
you
can
email
us
at
enterprise.solutions
at
iohk.ioh.
I
can
also
talk
about
a
a
jar
that
wraps
the
the
cardano
wallet
back
end
api,
which
this
this
depends
on
just
for
fun.
Just
to
let
you
know,
this
is
now
finished
and
you
can
see
that
it's
buried
under
it's
buried
under
two
blocks,
and
so
that
is
now
successfully
on
the
blockchain
you
can.
You
can
retrieve
it
it's
on
the
it's
on
the
testnet
blockchain.
G
You
can
retrieve
it
through
the
through
the
txid,
but
as
part
of
the
development
of
this,
we
also
developed
a
scala
stroke
java
wrapper
a
jar
that
will
wrap
the
rest
api
that
the
cardano
node
uses.
So
it
allows
you
to
do
all
the
things
like
check
the
network,
information
post,
a
transaction
and
and
also,
of
course,
post
post
metadata.
So
we
expect
to
release
that,
probably
possibly
this
week-
probably
probably
next
week.
A
H
H
So
once
we
got
this
demo
ready
for
the
georgian
government,
I
would
love
to
also
show
that
to
the
community
to
see
the
progress
we've
made-
and
you
know
would
like
to
also
progress
with
the
georgian
government
or
full-blown
pilot
and
yeah,
as
mentioned
there's
a
few
others
in
in
the
works
testing
out
different
ways
and
that
the
community
and
businesses
will
be
able
to
to
work
with
us
as
a
team.
So
we'll
share
a
few
more
more
of
those
details
in
the
october
update.
H
B
Okay,
so
decentralized
governance
is
another
one
of
those
areas
that
we
are.
We
are
forwarding
with
full
momentum,
while
we're
doing
everything
else,
and
just
last
week
we
launched
fun
2
with
project
catalyst,
which
has
been
quite
an
exciting
trajectory
so
far
and
tim
you
caught
up
with
our
main
guy
door
around
this
yeah.
I.
A
Mean
first
of
all,
we've
had
a
fantastic
response
to
the
to
the
program.
So
far,
it's
a
little
over
a
week
into
fun
too,
and
there's
been
remarkable
response
really
so
yeah
I
caught
up
with
door
and
also
two
of
the
community
members,
james
and
maria
who
were
part
of
fun
one
which
of
course
was
the
the
prototyping
I
suppose
of
the
summer,
which
has
allowed
us
to
to
move
so
quickly
on
this
area.
So
let's
have
a
look
at
that
now.
A
So
door,
james
maria
thanks
very
much
for
for
joining
us
on
the
show.
Today
it's
been
it's
been
a
busy
week
in
project
catalyst,
central
hasn't
it
it's
not
only
fun
one
still
going
on,
but
the
launch
of
fun
too,
just
over
a
week
on
now
door.
Perhaps
we
just
want
to
start.
You
want
to
give
us
a
little
bit
of
a
little
bit
of
an
intro
to
where
we
are
and
what
we've
achieved
in
just
one
week.
I
Yeah
sure
you
know
I'm
gonna,
I'm
gonna
share
my
screen.
Yeah,
it's
been,
it's
been
an
amazing
week
and
I'm
really
excited
with
with
all
the
involvement.
So,
as
you
can
see,
we
basically
5x
what
what
was
our
initial
expectations
for
the
first
week
of
front
two,
we
were
expecting
people
to
share,
maybe
100
perspectives.
I
We
got
to
516.
and
we
got
more
than
2000
comments,
and
here
this
number
says
1860
members.
But
right
now
we
have
a
lot
like
more
than
2
000
people
registered
in
id
scale,
and
we
also
have
like
around
more
than
500
people
on
our
announcement
announcement
channel
around
200
people
in
the
chat
I
think
in
almost
like
200
people,
maybe
even
more
in
the
community,
started
discord
channel.
I
We
can
see
that
we
had
contributions
from
55
countries
around
the
world.
We
are
truly
global
global
organization
and
we're
basically
one
of
the
most
diverse
and
large
decentralized
innovation
funds
in
the
blockchain
space,
and
we
did
it
in
one
week.
Another
another
thing
is
we
surveyed
the
users
like
who
you
know?
Who
are
you
guys,
the
community
and
and
just
looking
at
these
numbers?
You
can
you
can
really
see
the
the
potential
and
what
we
can
do
together
like
we
have.
I
You
know
more
than
you
know
more
than
617
entrepreneurs,
more
than
413
developers,
250
stackable
operators,
124
teachers,
one
122
marketing
professionals,
80
community
managers.
Can
you
imagine
what
we
can
achieve
together
if
we
just
work
together
and
coordinate
and
learn
how
to
make
smart
decisions?
I
A
J
G
Thanks
tim,
my
name
is
james.
I
am
a
teacher
I've.
I
first
got
interested
in
cardano
back
in
2017.
Like
a
lot
of
people,
I
saw
charles's
video
and
from
day
one.
The
idea
of
smart
contracts
is
really
where
my
interest
started.
I
was
like
wow
that
that
idea
is
going
to
change
the
world,
so
it's
really
exciting
to
be
here
and
see
it
rolling
out
in
real
time.
A
J
I
loved
our
leadership,
he's
always
there
for
you.
Always
I
love,
I
always
say
I
am
sitting
on
the
shoulder
of
giants.
Everyone.
There
is
a
giant,
they
have
experience
in
business,
they
have
experience
in
life,
they
will
hold
you
by
the
hand
and
lead
you
the
way
you
want
to
go.
I
have
my
meters
on
the
train,
you
know
come
from
work
and
but
they,
if
I
have
any
doubts-
and
I
have
any
questions-
they'll
be
there,
for
you-
is
the
really
meaning
of
community.
A
So,
maria,
actually
being
part
of
that
kind
of
initial
cohort,
that
initial
group
you've
almost
taken
on
an
additional
responsibility
for
yourself.
What
what
advice
would
you
give
to
some
of
the
people
who
are
now
coming
through
who've,
been
in
the
experience
for
a
week
with
with
fun
one?
What
what
experience
would
you
share
with
them,
particularly.
J
G
A
I
Yeah
so
we
entered,
we
have
entered
the
idea
submission
stage
so
that
started
wednesday
and
it's
going
to
end
on
wednesday
at
basically
12
noon,
pst
time,
pacific
central
time,
and
that
and
that
so
that's
like
your
final
chance
to
submit
your
proposal
and
basically
take
part
in
this
community
driven
incubation
process
that
helps
you
make
an
awesome
proposal
and
another
thing
you
can
see
is
we
have
so
already.
We
have
56
submissions
in
the
system
and
we
already
have
probably
more
than
100
requests
for
for
help.
I
A
I
A
A
I
Yeah,
definitely
it's
going
to
be
a
particularly
exciting
town
hall,
because
we're
going
to
double
down
and
talk
about
a
voting
registration.
How
do
you
register
to
vote?
How
do
you
actually
exercise
your
your
power
as
a
member
of
the
cardano
community
to
to
make
these
funding
decisions
and
we're
going
to
talk
about
the
new
phase
about
the
refinement
phase
and
how
we're
going
to
help
the
proposers
make
the
best
proposals
possible
and
support
them?
I
A
James
maria,
thank
you
and
yeah
good
luck
with
everything.
In
fact,
why
don't
we
give
you
a
chance?
We've
got.
We've
got
a
minute
left.
Why
don't
we
give
you
30
seconds
each
let's
hear
about
your
individual
ideas
as
well.
If
you
fancy
giving
us
just
a
quick
30
second
pitch
I'll
I'll
set
my
timer
james,
do
you
want
to
go
first.
G
These
education
materials
are
going
to
lead
us
towards
community
implementation,
so
just
projects
that
get
cardano
into
the
hands
of
end
users,
people
who
might
not
be
interested
in
the
tech
but
who
who
really
want
to
see
what
the
new
tech
can
do.
So
my
goal
is
to
make
people
say:
wow
how'd
you
do
that.
And
can
you
tell
me
more.
J
A
Maria
thank
you
and
good
luck
with
that,
and
also
good
luck
to
everybody
else.
Who's
put
an
idea
forwards
on
the
platform
if
people
want
to
go
and
look
at
that,
it's
the
idea,
scale
platform,
so
we're
sharing
the
link
now,
so
you
can
go
and
have
a
look
at
some
of
the
ideas
that
have
been
submitted.
Maybe
it
will
inspire
some
of
you
to
get
involved
as
well,
but
meanwhile
maria
james
and,
of
course,
door.
Thank
you
very
much
and
we'll
see
you
again
soon.
A
Okay,
so
project
catalyst,
a
hive
of
activity
and
creativity
and
indeed
future
development
for
cardano.
And
of
course,
we
talked
at
the
outset
of
the
show
aparna
about
that
developer
experience
and
how
that
was
part
of
the
the
overall
gogan
rollout
and
core
part
of
the
experience
for
for
a
developer
community.
So
you
caught
up
with
mariam
from
the
cf
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
that.
Didn't
you.
B
B
Miriam
thanks
for
joining
us
on
today's
show.
Community
miriam
is
the
marketing
leader
for
the
cf
and
she
is
joining
us
today
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
gogen's
marketing
and
what
the
cf
is
doing
in
terms
of
gogan,
developer,
acquisition
and
onboarding,
and
some
of
the
work
that's
already
being
put
out
by
the
cf
team.
B
So
we're
really
happy
to
have
this
collaboration
with
the
cf
and
we're
hoping
to
bring
a
lot
more
people
from
the
cf
into
the
show,
just
as
especially
as
we
go
through
gogan
and
voltaire,
and
so
on
and
so
forth.
So
I'm
excited
to
have
maryam
on
the
show
so
miriam
for
anybody
that
doesn't
know
you,
because
you've
already
kind
of
been
introduced
through
the
cf
side,
but
for
for
our
viewership,
just
a
quick
hello
and
what
you
do,
and
why
are
you
excited
to
be
working
on
this.
K
Thanks
a
partner
I
appreciate
being
on
the
show
today,
a
my
name
is
miriam.
I've
been
working
in
marketing
for
about
17
years
now,
so
it's
been
a
minute.
I
focus
very
heavily
on
healthcare
and
healthcare
database
management,
especially
in
my
past
roles,
so
very
much
on
the
technology
side,
doing
product
marketing
and
corporate
marketing
for
various
companies
across
the
healthcare
platform,
and
then
I
joined
consensus
than
joining
the
cf
it's
been
since
may
is
so.
K
The
transition
to
blockchain
has
definitely
been
interesting,
but
there's
a
lot
of,
I
think,
parallel
ideas
and
continuations
of
theories
of
how
data
should
be
managed
and
how
you
know.
Data
should
be
not
just
across
to
person
or
you
know,
company
to
company,
but
how
data
needs
to
be
treated
as
an
entire
system
and
how
we
have
to
look
at
it
as
an
entire
platform
versus
you
know
what
my
needs
are
versus
what
your
needs
are.
B
Right,
I
mean
there's
a
lot
of
work
on
on
your
side
on
the
cardana
foundation,
side
for
the
adoption
and
the
marketing
of
the
platform
itself,
and
you
know
we
just
kind
of
finished
up
with
shelley.
So
that's
it's
somewhat
brand
new,
but
gogan
opens
up
a
whole
new
opportunity
right
in
terms
of
the
utility
of
the
platform.
B
So
when
it
comes
to
a
user
acquisition
bit,
for
example,
the
community
acquisition
and
then
the
marketing
of
that
to
be
able
to
push
gogan
and
then
cardano's
name
out
in
the
market,
you
have
been
working
and
I've
seen
some
of
the
work.
That's
been
great,
you
know
this
collaboration
has
been
great,
but
you've
been
working
on
a
road
map
and
milestones
and
being
able
to
do
this
for
user
acquisition.
K
K
You
know
the
community
is
made
up
of
a
broad
spectrum
of
them,
we're
trying
to
identify
those
existing
in
our
community,
but
also
draw
in
new
developers
into
our
ecosystem
from
there
we're
also
working
on
building
a
developer
portal.
This
is
going
to
be
sort
of
a
one-stop
shop
for
our
developers.
You
know
we
want
them
to
be
able
to
come
in
first
of
all,
be
able
on
board
and
get
training
on
gogan
flutus
marlow.
You
know
everything
that
they
really
need
to
know
to
get
up
and
running
easily.
K
We
want
to
make
that
process
as
easy
and
comfortable
as
possible
for
our
deaths.
The
other
part
of
it
is
to
be
able
to
collaborate
and
contribute.
So
you
know
there
are
so
many
great
projects
happening
within
the
community.
We
want
people
to
be
able
to
showcase
these
projects.
You
know
to
be
able
to
source
other
people
to
come
in
and
collaborate
with
them.
You
know
networking
opportunities,
but
also
not
just
with
each
other,
but
the
community
at
large.
K
So
you
know
what
are
the
major
things
having
job
boards
having
a
place
to
come
in
and
share
your
profile
and
who
you
are
and
really
creating
a
dynamic
and,
I
would
say,
two-way
or
more
relationship
across
the
community
itself.
So
it's
not
just
us
pushing
out
materials.
It's
not
just
us
stating
you
know,
here's
what
you
need.
It's
the
community
also
contributing
and
collaborating
with
us
and
with
each
other.
B
That's
that's
really
exciting
and
it's
a
very
dynamic
portal-
and
you
know
I've
talked
a
little
bit
about
you
in
the
past
about
this
vision
that
you're
trying
to
achieve
with
this
so
for
for
our
audience
today.
When
can
they
start
playing
around
with
this
or
when
they
can?
Can
they
start
seeing
some
development
around
this
rollout.
K
K
You
know
we
want
to
keep
that
relationship
going
while
we're
building
up
the
portal
and
their
answers
to
that
form
will
also
help
us
really
decide
which
you
know,
features
to
focus
on
heavily
at
first,
so
it
is
going
to
be
a
phased
rollout.
We
plan
on
launching
you
know
early
2021,
so
you
know
people
will
have
access
to
all
the
onboarding
materials,
some
of
the
collaboration
parts
and
then
you
know,
towards
the
end
of
the
first
quarter.
They'll
be
able
to
have
the
full
access
of
the
site.
B
K
Yes,
I
mean
we
listen
on
all
of
our
socials,
so
if
you're
on
any
of
our
social
media,
please
by
all
means
submit
your
ideas
there.
You
can
email
us
at
marketing
at
cardanofoundation.com,
the
entire
marketing
team
receives
that
you
know
just
to
sort
of
elaborate
on
how
much
focus
we're
really
putting
on
this
developer
community.
K
When
I
joined
the
cardano
foundation,
pr
and
marketing
were
first
aligned,
as
one
team
with
my
coming
on
marketing
was
to
become
its
own
department
and
on
monday
we
will
be
having
our
fourth
team
member,
so
we're
growing
quite
rapidly.
Considering
besides,
you
know
in
this
the
short
amount
of
time,
so
we're
really
putting
a
heavy
focus
on
providing
the
community
the
marketing
materials
that
they
really
need
and
the
content
that
they
need,
and
so
we
want
that
feedback.
K
B
Out,
that's
great,
and
and
yes
absolutely,
the
team
is
growing
pretty
quickly
and
you're
segmenting
it.
You
know,
as
the
need
comes
in
it
grows
really,
but
there's
one
more
thing
right.
So,
on
top
of
the
marketing
and
the
developer,
onboarding
there's
also
the
partnership
angle
of
it
and
miriam
you
you.
I
know
we
don't
have
the
partnership
people
here,
but
there
are
partnerships
that
are
being
worked
on
at
the
cf
that
we
can
share
more.
K
Yes,
we
have
a
team
dedicated
specifically
to
partnerships.
We
also
have
a
new
head
of
growth
coming
in
to
really
oversee
a
growing.
The
community
across
various
platforms
and
partnerships
is
a
very
big
part
of
that.
So
you
know
ava,
who
we've
been
announcing
across
all
of
our
socials
the
past
little
while
she'll
be
joining
us
in
less
than
a
week,
and
you
know
she's
already
hit
the
ground
running.
We've
had
a
bunch
of
calls
on
how
to
proceed
and
projects
to
work
on.
K
B
Share
all
that,
that's
right,
jeremy,
we'll
definitely
bring
jeremy
on
the
show
next
month
as
well,
because
we've
got
some
exciting
partnerships
to
discuss
during
that
time.
So,
thanks
miriam,
I
appreciate
that
it
sounds
like
you
guys
are,
are
really
you're
rolling
quickly
and
that's
you
in
the
direction
with
us
on
gogan.
So
we
are
pretty
excited
about
this
collaboration
with
the
foundation.
B
A
So
thanks
for
staying
with
us,
everybody,
a
bumper
show
as
we
said,
but
we've
still
got
lots
more
to
go.
Remember
we're
streaming,
live
on
youtube
and
we're
here
right
now
on
crowdcast,
but
we'll
put
some
links
in
after
the
event.
So
if
you
want
to
deep
dive
into
some
of
the
specific
areas
that
are
most
interesting
to
you,
you
can
go
straight
in
there.
So
that
was
great
upon
her
to
hear
about
the
developer,
experience
from
a
portal
perspective
and
an
information
perspective
and
how
we're
going
to
be
making
that
available.
B
Absolutely
and
you
know-
and
I
caught
up
with
marlowe
because
their
playground
is-
is
one
of
the
things
that's
a
little
more
advanced
and
marlowe
is
a
domain
specific
language
and
we'll
talk
a
little
bit
more
about
that
with
simon
mike
and
trithy.
Who
are
the
leads
for
marlow
the
piece
about
marla
that
I
really
like
is
it
has
a
ton
of
potential
for
the
domain
specific
world.
B
So
wherever
contracts
are
going
to
become
a
part
of
the
natural
order
of
the
blockchain
financial
areas
for
defy
legal
areas,
for
example,
it
could
even
flow
into
real
estate
and
there's
so
many
applications,
and
so
many
ways.
This
can
go
so
marlo's,
interesting
and
and
love
to
share
some
more
with
you
and
and
in
this
show,
as
well
as
in
the
upcoming
shows
as
well.
So,
let's,
let's
take
a
look
at
simon
mike
and
schritzy.
L
B
Hi,
I'm
really
excited
to
have
you
guys
on
the
show
today,
so
for
the
community.
Gogan
is
technically
about
the
multi-asset
ledger
and
the
smart
contract
capability.
However,
from
a
market
endpoint,
it's
really
around
platform
utility,
that's
that's
the
that's!
The
main
goal:
byron
and
shelly
gave
a
gave
cardano
the
foundations
to
build
this
usability,
which,
to
me
is
is
kind
of
a
clear
indicator
of
platform.
Liability
in
the
long
term
and
plutus
in
in
terms
of
the
gogan
era,
brings
that
to
cardano
by
allowing
the
decentralized
app
ecosystem
to
flourish.
B
M
All
right,
so
I'm
simon
thompson,
I'm
the
tech
lead
on
marlow,
I
it's
with
pablo
lamello
we
developed
marlow
and
we've
been
working
with
a
bigger
team
since
then
to
bring
all
the
all
the
features
that
we
have
and
what
we'll
be
doing
today
is
showing
you,
the
marlow
playground,
and
I
think
that's
one
of
the
things
that
I
I'm
most
excited
about.
Building
this
language,
but
then
putting
it
in
a
form
where
we
can
get
it
in
front
of
the
cabana
community
and
get
your
feedback
on
what
we're
doing.
B
We
we
like
to
figure
out
what
it
the
product
is.
Who
is
it
for
you
know
why
is
this
important
for
us
and
and
truthy
has
done
a
good
job
of
putting
that
canvas
together
so
shruti?
Let's
start
with
that
brass
tax,
let's
go
to
marla.
What
is
marlo?
Who
is
it
for?
Why
does
it
matter?
Give
give
the
community
a
little
insight
into
that.
L
Yeah,
let
me
tell
you
a
little
bit
about
the
history
of
marlowe
as
well.
Marlo
actually
started
three
years
ago
when
charles
and
simon
got
together
and
realized
that
functional
programming
languages
are
actually
really
good
fit
for
application
and
finance
and
to
build
that
financial
instruments,
because
they
are
so
strict
and
that
you
are
able
to
test
and
formally
verify
contracts
very
easily.
L
That
brings
about
a
ton
of
security
to
smart
contracts
and
as
a
result
of
that,
we're
able
to
have
much
more
secure,
as
well
as
complete
smart
contracts,
and
in
regards
to
that,
we
have
a
three-pronged
strategy
for
merlot:
we're
rolling
out
a
marlo
oss,
the
open
source
version
for
developers
and
as
well
as
smaller
for
enterprise,
which
is
the
enterprise
product.
That's
going
to
build
out,
customized
use
cases
for
enterprises
as
well
as
mall
of
end
users,
product
which
really
aims
to
drive
adoption
on
cardano
network.
B
Great
thanks,
yes,
so
marlo
as
we'll
talk
a
little
bit
more
about
the
strategy
and
the
community
will
hear
about
this
through
subsequent
shows
as
well,
but
we
really
had
to
take
a
step
back
from
what
marla
was
originally
intended
for
and
widen,
widen
it
so
that
because
because
it's
actually
capable
of
doing
so
much
more
than
just
the
financial
piece,
there's
a
lot
more.
That
can
come
into
play
here,
which
is
one
thing:
that's
really
exciting
about
the
product.
B
M
M
So
you
have
the
language
you
program,
the
contracts
in
language,
that
financial
expert
or
somebody
who
knows
enough
about
finance,
will
understand
so
you're
thinking
in
terms
of
payments
of
time,
evolving
of
users,
making
choices
they're
being
intervention
coming
from
outside
the
contract
like
an
oracle.
But
those
are
things
which
are
in
the
world
of
finance
they're,
not
about
while
loops
or
about
interrupts
or
whatever.
So
the
hard
way.
You
don't
see
the
software,
you
don't
see,
you
just
think
in
terms
of
the
contract
itself,
and
I
think
this
is
something
that
people
have.
M
You
can
see
these
through
the
development
of
computing
over
the
last
30
years
or
so
that
there's
been
a
whole
trend
for
doing
this
kind
of
thing
in
cad
and
in
finance
as
well,
and
this
is
one
reason
we
wanted
to
look
at
finance,
particularly
on
blockchain,
because
they've
been
very
successful,
domains
specific
languages
in
the
financial
sector.
Before
that,
so
we
see
it's
a
very
good
place
to
try
a
dsl,
but
also
it's
like
the
canary
in
the
coal
mine,
for
what
a
dsl
might
look
like
on
blockchain.
B
You
know
that's
a
great
point,
and
you
know
when
you're
talking
about
finance
itself,
since
marlow
was
specific
to
the
financial
contract
space
you're
talking
about
years
of
contracts
that
are
written
in
traditional
systems
and
legacy
systems
and
and
how
people
are
doing
it
today
status
quo.
So
what
would
you
simon
and
shiroti
as
well
say,
is
the
biggest
differentiator
about
marlow
when
it
comes
to
comparing
and
contrasting
against
systems
like
that.
M
M
M
A
contract
can't
keep
your
money
forever
and
you
can
read
that
off
from
the
you
can
read
off
how
long
the
contract
will
live
just
just
from
the
way
it's
written.
So
there's
no
trickery
there,
whereas
reading
in
general,
something
written
in
in
solidity,
say
it's
much
harder.
I
mean
it's
not
possible
in
general
to
give
that
guarantee
and
it's
much
harder
to
see
if
a
solidity
contract
would
give
you
that
kind
of
that
kind
of
guarantee.
M
So
some
things
are
ruled
out
what
we
can
also
do,
because
it's
a
simpler
language,
we
can
do
things
like
static
analysis.
We
can,
without
running
the
contract,
work
out
all
the
different
ways
that
contract
could
behave
and
check,
for
example,
that
it
won't
make
a
failed
payment
on
any
of
those
possible
execution
paths.
So
we
can
give
very
strong
guarantees
of
contract
will
always
terminate.
It
will
always
do
what
it
should
do
and
it
will
always
make
full
payments,
for
example,
and
that
you
just
don't
get
with
a
general
general
programming
language.
L
You
know
also
from
a
more
business
perspective.
I
would
like
to
also
allude
to
the
fact
that
how
marlow
is
able
to
solve
certain
problems
which
are
uniquely
solved
by
blockchain,
and
this
is
only
able
to
do
able
to
be
possible
because
of
the
fact
that
we
are
able
to
express
these
financial
instruments
on
something
that
will
operate
on
blockchain.
L
So
there
are
certain
problems
in
the
financial
industry
that
will
be
uniquely
solved
or
made
more
efficient
or
less
expensive,
using
the
blockchain
and
with
milo
we're
able
to
replicate
financial
instruments,
especially
with
d5
these
days
being
quite
popular
and
be
able
to.
You
know,
run
those
contracts,
as
well
as
create
entire
financial
instruments
and
have
and
explore
all
the
efficiencies
of
that
and
with
regards
to
how
we
want
to
use
marlo
to
also
facilitate
adoption
on
cardano.
L
Is
we
really
want
to
explore
how
we
can
broaden
our
usb
user
base
and
to
achieve
that?
We
want
to
bring
in
developers
that
are
not
just
haskell
developers,
but
we
want
to
expand
beyond
haskell
developers
to
also
people
who
only
might
know
javascript
and
be
able
to
have
them
develop
smart
contracts
on
our
javascript
editor,
as
well
as
our
other
editors
that
we
have
using
blockly
for
visual
programming
on
the
playground.
B
And
that's
huge
right
truthy,
I
mean,
if
you
think
about
it,
like
our
our
mission
statement
with
with
cardano
itself,
is
around
the
economic
inclusion
and
an
identity
for
all
in
a
way,
so
this
particular
product
in
finance
and
being
able
to
do
this
and
bring
in
the
type
of
users
we're
wanting
to
adopt
onto
the
platform.
It
definitely
allows
for
that
for
that
propagation
of
that
mission
statement.
B
So
this
is
this
is
definitely
a
special
product
for
for
our
portfolio,
and
you
know,
speaking
of
that,
when
we're
rolling
out
marlow
for,
for
example,
you
know,
goku
is
not
just
a
plutus
or
just
marlo.
It's
kind
of
a
collection
of
these,
of
these
smart
contracting
capabilities
and
it
hasn't
been
sequential
and
like,
like
we've
talked
about
in
the
beginning
of
the
show,
and
all
that
we
work
on
voltaire,
we
work
on
gogan.
B
We
work
on
different
aspects
of
blockchain
infrastructure
as
well,
so
it's
not
one
after
the
other
in
terms
of
a
rollout
to
the
to
the
community.
So
marlow
also
has
a
rollout
strategy
and
it
has
been
working
in
parallel
with
the
plutus
and
working
in
parallel
with
some
of
the
other
components
of
cardano,
so
sriti.
Why
don't
you
talk
about
the
strategy
for
the
royal
strategy
for
marla,
you
kind
of
alluded
a
little
bit
to
how
we're
segmenting
the
product
itself,
but
how
are
we
looking
at
it
from
a
rollout
and
a
community
engagement
aspect.
G
L
Regards
to
that,
we
are
looking
to
do
a
lot
more
developer
engagement
and
seeing
how
we
can
actually
build
out
a
really
flushed
out
smart
contract
library
in
a
way
that
will
be
useful
to
end
users
as
well,
and
with
regards
to
that,
we
also
have
marvel
for
enterprises,
and
this
product
is
really
meant
for
more
traditional
finance
and
we
are
doing
if
we're
in
the
very
early
exploratory
stages
for
marvel
for
enterprises
and
we're
looking
for
people
to
talk
to,
we
want.
We
want
some
subject
matter
experts
to
really
start
a
dialogue
around.
L
Let
us
know
the
features
that
they
like
and
the
features
they
would
like
to
see,
improvements
on
and
for
marvel
for
enterprises.
We're
also
looking
for
subject
matter,
experts
with
whom
we
can
start
dialogues
around
for
what
they
are
looking
for
in
certain
financial
instruments
that
they
want
to
be
seen
built
on
the
blockchain.
H
Yeah,
I
think
yes,
I've
been
meeting
with
the
milo
team
very
regularly
and
we've.
We
found
some
some
problems
with
the
interface
that
the
way
it's
growing,
that
the
you
couldn't
create
a
a
really
optimal
workflow,
so
I'll
shut.
It
I'll
show
you
what
I've
done.
This
is
the
amazing
miralo
logo.
So
we
have
our
new.
We
have
a
new
product.
It's
it's
got
its
own
little
brand.
It's
it's
it's
quite
nice,
it's
purple
and
blue.
But
milo
is
it's.
It's
amazing,
simplicity.
Okay.
H
I
said
that
before
and
we
are
trying
to
remove
the
how
to
the
elite.
The
label,
for
you
need
to
know
millions
of
lines
of
code
to
to
do
this
stuff.
It's
it's
not
true,
anymore,
we're
making
as
simple
as
possible
to
try
and
bring
everyone
into
this
ecosystem.
So
there's
our
logo,
beautiful
so
like
say,
I'm
a
ux
designer
and
I
I
drew
that
this
is
you
know
if
anyone
wants
to
have
a
copy
of
this,
probably
on
github.
This
is
the
flow.
H
This
is
how
the
marlow
playground
works.
So
this
is
these.
You
know
it's
not
all
that
interesting.
But
that's!
That's
the
bare
bones
of
it.
If
currently,
this
is
the
the
alpha
version
of
it
that
you
people
can
use,
and
it's
going
to
so
so
it's
going
to
change
to
a
simpler,
a
simpler
workflow,
and
to
do
that,
I
whip
up
these
wireframes
and
analyze
the
as
much
as
I
can,
and
so
this
is
a
this
is
a
wireframe
for
the
haskell
editor.
H
So
if
you
go
back
really
quickly
without
boring,
you
too
much
the
the
the
editor
has
three
languages
in
it.
If
you
can
write
currently
as
we're
going
to
introduce
it,
the
very
the
first
next
person
you'll
see
you
can
write
in
haskell,
you
can
write
directly
in
marlow
or
you
can
write
in
a
visual
black
language
called
blackly,
which
is
sort
of
a
standardized
thing.
I
I'm
not
sure
who
makes
it
it's
an
open
source,
visual
programming,
language
which
I'll
show
you
in
a
minute
anyways.
H
All
three
of
those
are
more
or
less
equal.
You
can
start
in
any
one
of
them,
the
only
difference
being
that
haskell
has
to
be
compiled
to
marlow
before
it
can
run.
But
it's
a
it's
a
very,
very
minor
step,
so
that's
like
the
playground
is
it
it
existed
now
and,
and
that
would
work
frame,
and
this
is
this-
is
now
the
screenshot,
the
design
of
the
of
the
milo
editor.
So
it's
it's
made
it's
simplified
and
sorry.
This
is
the
haskell
editor.
This
is
this.
H
H
This
is
basically
a
drag
and
drop
interface
where
this
is
a
screenshot,
so
I
can't
show
you
how
it
works,
but
you
drag
bits
of
of
blocks
out
here
and
those
represent
code
when
you,
when
you
like
what
you're
doing
and
it
it
actually,
you
can
actually
run
this
when
you
like
what
you're
doing
you
can
generate
it
generate
milo
from
it
directly
and
also
you
can
you.
Can
you
can
write
your
contract
in
blackly
and
then
you
can
go
to
the
milo
editor?
H
N
H
Like
and
what
you
know
and
further
on
there
we
are
this
is
this
is
an
example
page.
So
this
is
not.
This
is
not
a
real
code,
but
this
is
a
mock-up
of
of
our
demo
files.
We're
going
to
have
lots
of
demo
files
on
different
types
of
financial
products
like
we
have
escrow
loans,
zero,
coupon
bonds
options
swap
guaranteed
bonds.
H
I
don't
know
a
lot
about
finance,
I'm
learning,
but
there
will
be
a
lot
if
you
know
about
finance
there'll
be
a
lot
of
things
for
you
to
experiment
with
play
with
and
and
hopefully
you
know,
write
your
own
and
share
them.
Put
them
on
github
make
more
open
source
documents,
you
know,
whatever
that's
pretty
cool,
but
what's
really
really
cool
is
next
page.
H
Is
we're
going
to
expand
to
use
the
world's
most
popular
and
some
sometimes
maligned
javascript
language
which,
which
is
like
I
mean,
runs
on
over
several
billion
devices?
If
you
want,
but
obviously
you
milo
doesn't
run
on
several
different
billing
devices,
but
you'll
be
able
to
write
your
contract
in
javascript
and
it
will
be
a
smart
contract
and
will
it'll
have
all
the
the
ability
to
check
to
see
if
your
contract
is
working
with
our
static
analysis,
that's
built
in
so
javascript
will
will
be
your
source
milo.
H
It
will
generate
the
domain
specific
language
of
milo
and
milo
being
being
our
language
that
we
develop,
especially
for
this
can
be
checked
for
errors.
So
you
don't
go
and
you
know
well,
spend
all
your
money
or
lose
it
and
that's
what
really
exciting
and
that
that
won't
be
too
far
off
we're
working
working
on
that
quite
diligently
and
that's
it
for
my
screen.
Sharing
I'll
stop.
B
N
B
L
B
Playground
so
for
those
that
are
not
familiar
with
how
it
currently
works,
please
go
get
familiar
with
it.
If
that
interests
you
and
then
what
mike's
showing
you
is
some
of
the
improvements
that
we're
doing
to
make
it
even
more
of
a
of
a
factor
here
and
a
lot
of
this
is
going
to
come
out
in
an
alpha
phase,
as
truthy's
mentioned
at
the
end
of
october.
So
we're
really
excited
so,
for
the
next
show
we'll
have
a
lot
more
to
talk
about
in
terms
of
this
particular
product,
so
really
good
work.
B
You
guys
on
this
excited
about
all
right,
so
marlo
one
thing:
we
can't
talk
about
gogen
without
our
partnerships,
so
a
lot
of
partnerships
come
into
play
with
both
plutus
and
with
marlow.
When
it
comes
to
adoption
it
comes
to
building
it
comes
to
validating
it.
There's
a
lot
of
things,
marketing
even
right,
there's,
there's
so
much
that
goes
into
it.
B
One
of
the
big
partnerships
that
we
are
looking
at
is
actus
and
simon's
been
leading
a
lot
of
those
discussions
with
the
actis
team
and
also
support
for
how
we
put
our
contracts
in
the
actus
format.
So
that
it's
adopted
across
a
variety
of
industries
in
the
future,
so
with
that
simon,
why
don't
you
give
us
an
update
on
actus?
What
is
it,
why
is
it
important
same
type
of
spiel
and
also
where
we
are
with
it.
M
Yeah
yeah,
certainly
so
I
think
what
the
actor's
foundation
people
wanted
to
do
is
is
they've
realized
that
there
are
there,
aren't
that
many
contracts
dif
fundamentally
different
contracts
out
there
in
the
world,
and
they
reckon
there
are
about
32
different
kinds.
It's
a
shame,
it
isn't
42,
but
they
reckon
about
32
different
contracts
out
there
in
the
world
what
they
built
with
that
taxonomy
of
these,
and
they
built
a
very
clear
mathematical
description
of
how
these
things
work.
M
And
so
we
thought
what
better
than
to
take
that
standard
and
to
implement
it
inside
marlon,
and
I
think,
working
with
actors
as
partners
has
been
valuable
for
both
of
us.
We've
had
this
fantastic
application
area
to
look
at,
but
we've
also
found
that
with
as
with
any
standard,
there
are
some
things
which
there
are
little
ambiguities
in
there,
and
sometimes
there
are
things
that
have
just
typos
have
come
in,
so
we've
been
able
to
debug
the
standard
that
the
the
actors
people
have
built.
M
So
I
think
for
us
it's
a
great
it's
a
great
benchmark
for
the
work
we're
doing,
and
it's
a
and
working
with
the
actors
foundation
through
the
cardano
foundation.
We
we're
able
to
to
put
our
technology
in
front
of
a
whole
lot
of
key
players
in
this
area.
So
I
think
it's
been
a
it's
a
it's
been
a
benefit
in
both
directions.
M
In
fact,
what
we're
doing
at
the
moment
we're
just
working
on
a
way
that
we
can
test
our
implementation
against
another
partial
implementation,
that's
out
there
in
java
and
being
able
to
set
these
two
against
each
other,
with
both
implementations
will
gain
in
in
in
security.
So
that's
that's
a
really
good
thing
and
in
fact-
and
if
I
will
talk
about
this
in
a
second
but
yeah
that
starts
it
for
me
on
practice.
B
L
M
So
what
we've
said,
though,
the
wyoming
hackathon
it's
an
interesting,
because
everything's
gone
online,
it's
no
longer
get
people
in
the
room
and
and
get
them
to
hack
away
for
48
hours.
It's
a
one
month,
hackathon,
which
has
a
number
of
challenges
and
iohk's
a
sponsor,
and
we
put
in
this
challenge
for
cardano
of
taking
an
aspect
of
our
implementation
actors
and
taking
that
to
the
next
level.
M
It
might
be
using
our
experimental,
javascript
version
of
marlow
and
and
building
contracts,
in
that
it
might
be
building
a
mock-up
of
a
standalone
app
that
uses
that
uses
the
actors
contracts.
So
there's
a
whole
range
of
things.
It
might
extend
another
experimental
feature
of
of
the
playground,
which
is
the
actors
lab.
B
Sounds
good,
I'm
sure
many
of
you
are
interested
in
that
and
just
to
wrap
up
this
segment
on
marlowe.
You
know
we
talked
about
what
marlow
is.
Why
why
it's
important
the
partnerships,
what
we're
doing
on
the
playgrounds-
and
I
just
want
to
bring
it
back
to
the
whole
voice
of
community
piece
or
voc
voice
of
customer
community
user?
B
We
are
doing
a
lot
more
you'll
see
a
lot
more
focus
groups
that
are
happening
around
all
of
it,
from
shelley
to
the
wallet
to
and
deadlifts
and
into
atlas
and
to
into
catalysts,
especially
and
we're
also
bringing
that
into
marlow
so
schritti.
What
are
we
specifically
doing
in
tomorrow?
What
are
we
asking
the
community,
because
there's
some
clear
asks
that
you'd
like
to
to
hand
out
here
for
recruiting
people?
Okay?
Why
don't
you
let's
leave
with
that.
L
Yeah,
so
with
regards
to
our
community
voice
of
customer
piece,
we're
really
looking
to
get
some
insight
around
what
kinds
of
industries
and
user
groups
we're
able
to
bring
even
within
the
sub
industries
within
finance.
We
really
want
to
be
seeing
what
kind
of
insurance,
or
maybe
asset,
management
or
representing
derivatives
or
stock
options.
So
all
of
those
different
things
we
want
to
be
creating
financial
instruments,
as
well
as
user
groups
around
those,
and
particularly
I'm
very
focused
in
the
near
term.
L
For
this
rollout,
I'm
focused
on
getting
a
group
of
pioneers
that
are
able
to
test
out
this
marlow
playground
and
really
getting
a
feedback
around
what
features
they
like.
What
kind
of
improvements
they
would
like
to
see
on
the
playground
and
get
their
hands
on
something
that
is
really
very
much
in
flight.
L
But
we
would
love
to
hear
the
feedback
of
people
who
are
actually
going
to
end
up
using
this
kind
of
a
product,
and
so
that's
one
area
where
I'm
looking
for
certain
types
of
developers
also
people
familiar
with
the
financial
industries,
perhaps
like
financial
contract
managers
and
so
on
and
with
regards
to
model
for
enterprise.
That
is
another
area
where
we're
looking
for
a
little
bit
more
folks
to
give
us
a
sort
of
advisory
and
informal
dialogue.
L
B
B
All
right,
so
you
just
heard
about
marlow,
and
there
was
quite
a
lot
of
information
jam-packed
in
that
session,
and
it's
really
exciting
to
know
that
we
will
have,
at
the
end
of
october,
a
playground
for
people
and
developers
to
come
to
and
check
out
marlo's
functionality
and
especially
around
the
javascript
piece.
That's
that's
a
great
addition
to
the
roadmap
by
the
team,
and
we
are
we
are.
B
You
know
we're
quite
excited
to
share
that,
and
on
top
of
that,
the
partnerships
with
actus
so
making
marlo
like
I
talked
about
earlier
on
more
of
a
utility
play
for
the
domain
specific
pieces,
so
the
actus
partnership
and
working
with
actus
to
get
there
is
going
to
help
that
along
and
tim,
we
we
you
know
just
to
pivot.
We
also
talked
to
nebosha
and
vicasan
about
plutus.
A
That's
right,
and
obviously
plutus
is
one
of
the
other
kind
of
core
components
of
gogan,
which
also
splits
into
two
from
the
pluto's
foundation,
offering
one
level
of
functionality
evolving
into
the
pluto's
application
framework.
So
let's
go
to
that
clip
and
learn
a
bit
more
about
that,
and
also
about
the
erc20
converter,
which
I
think
is
also
another
exciting
new
development.
A
O
It's
taking
some
time
to
make
sure
we've,
given
the
community
the
best
possible
foundation
to
be
able
to
do
this,
and
we
wanted
to
set
them
up
to
be
successful
in
doing
this
and
with
gogan.
We
are
taking
it
a
step
further
and
we
are
enabling
the
community
to
not
just
operate,
but
also
to
join
us
in
building
an
ecosystem
of
financial
and
social
services.
O
O
Yes,
we
want
to
be
very
careful
when
we
integrate
proteus
and
multi-asset
later
into
the
existing
platform
design
brought
about
by
shelley,
along
with
the
fact
that
we
are
making
kadan
one
of
the
first
proof
of
stake
and
utxo
based
smart
contracts
enabled
platforms.
We
also
need
to
approach
this
with
due
care
to
make
sure
that
it's
done
right,
but
we
believe
this
extra
effort
is
in
line
with
our
goal
of
being
the
most
scientifically
sound
solution
in
distributed,
ledger
and
smart
contracts.
Technology.
B
All
right
thanks
snap,
so
for
the
for
gogen,
the
very
first
functionality
we
need
to
enable
is
the
multi-asset
ledger
and
that
in
turn
provides
native
token
functionality
so
verkasen
for
for
the
community.
Can
you
explain
what
these
native
tokens
are?
How
do
they
compare
to
erc20
and
also
go
into
some
of
the
use
cases
just
to
bring
back
the
usability
aspect
to
native
tokens,
so
the
audience
can
understand.
P
P
Additionally,
since
this
is
basically
the
same
as
a
native
document
or
other,
it
means
that
the
friction
when
you
want
to
integrate
that
in
the
exchange
or
any
third
party
integration
is
basically
the
same
asada,
meaning
that
any
exchange
that
wants
to
list
such
a
token.
They
can
basically
do
the
same
thing
they
did
for
other,
with
just
a
flag
on
which
reduces
the
technical
complexity.
By
a
lot.
B
P
Yeah,
so
what
we
try
to
do
with
the
native
tokens
is
basically
include
all
the
functionality
that
you
would
take
us
granted
on
each
room
that
was
implemented
mostly
by
the
community,
but
have
that
done
natively.
So
by
doing
that,
basically,
what
we
managed
to
do
is
increase
the
efficiency
in
which
we
manage
those
transfers
and
by
doing
that,
we
increase
the
the
throughput
of
transactions
that
can
be
super
on
the
network,
allowing
our
users
basically
to
think
about
use
cases
that
were
prohibitedly
expensive
before
nabocha.
A
O
Well,
pluto's
is
a
general
purpose:
programming
language
for
developing
decentralized
applications
on
cardano
and
in
the
cardano
network.
It's
basically
a
subset
of
hospital
and
functions
much
in
the
same
way
as
haskell,
and
we
can
reuse
much
of
the
haskell
developer
toolchain
for
composing
and
developing
and
designing
our
produce
applications.
O
Been
developed
by
a
scientific
academic
community
over
a
number
of
decades
already
and
it's
a
very
stable
language.
That's
used
for
developing
high
assurance
applications
in
finance
or
in
flight
security
or
similar
business
domains,
and
it
obviously
has
advantages
over
languages
that
were
developed
recently,
which
still
suffer
maybe
from
some
of
the
childhood
diseases.
O
A
O
A
O
Yes,
so
the
proteus
foundation,
as
I
mentioned,
brings
this
programmability
to
the
caldano
network
and
with
the
brutus
application
framework.
We
are
taking
it
step
further
and
we
are
giving
the
developers
all
the
tools
that
they
need
to
to
improve
the
developer
experience
in
implementing
decentralized
applications
on
cardana
and
those
tools
would
include
test
automation
and
also
simulation
of
pluto's
application
execution
in
an
emulated
environment.
B
Yeah
thanks
now,
I
think
that's
a
pretty
good
understanding
of
like,
what's
under
the
hood,
there's
a
lot
in
the
architecture
of
gogan
and
plutus,
specifically
to
get
us
to
this
smart
contract
functionality
with
the
value
proposition
that
we
spoke
about
earlier
on.
But
let's
go
back
to
the
developer
experience
in
the
onboarding
side.
You
know
it's
exciting
to
hear
that
developers
will
be
able
to
get
to
do
these
things
in
stages
in
terms
of
a
rollout.
O
So
pluto's
playground
is
basically
a
web
development
environment
for
people
to
try
out
development
of
decentralized
applications
with
bluetooth.
It
requires
no
setup
being
at
the
web
development
environment,
and
this
will
give
early
exposure
to
to
to
let's
say
early
adopters
of
pluto's,
and
it
will
allow
them
to
author
their
first
lines
of
process
code.
It
will
allow
them
to
study
reference
implementation,
it
will
allow
them
access
to
early
developer
documentation
and
they
will
be
able
to
execute
produce
code
in
an
emulated
environment
and
test
how
it
would
actually
work.
O
B
Yeah,
that's
great,
so
some
of
you
would
have
known
mike
susco
from
the
last
show
that
we
introduced
in
a
segment
and
he's
also
working
on
the
marlow
playground,
but
mike
being
the
product.
Ux
manager
he's
also
going
to
be
working
on
the
plus
playground
to
get
us
this.
To
get
us
this
experience
going
and
to
have
this
back
and
forth
feedback
from
the
community
and
from
our
developer
community
and
how
we
go
about
building
it.
So
we're
very
excited
about
this.
B
This
playground
piece
and
more
to
come
on
that
so
to
just
wrap
up
the
segment
on
plutus.
There
is
another
project
that
we
are
working
on
and
this
one
promotes
interoperability,
but
also
provides
a
frictionless
way
for
developers
to
be
able
to
brought
be
brought
onto
this
current
platform
onto
the
gogan
ecosystem
and
vocation
actually
is
working
as
the
lead
on
this
particular
project,
and
it
has
to
do
with
the
rc20.
So
look
share
more
details
with
our
audience
about
this.
I'm
sure
that
they're
going
to
be
excited
to
hear.
P
Yeah
so
with
native
tokens,
we
already
reduced
the
barrier
to
entry
by
a
great
degree,
but
we
wanted
to
go
a
step
firm.
We
wanted
to
make
it
even
more
convenient
to
create
tokens
on
cardano,
and
we
mainly
wanted
to
focus
on
the
people
that
already
have
some
tokens
on
the
term,
so
we
made
something
that
we
call
the
erc20
converter.
Basically,
these
tools
allows
the
users
to
migrate
all
the
users
they
have
on
the
source
network.
A
So,
thank
you
guys
for
that.
Now,
we've
we've
touched
on
partnerships
already
today
upon
around
the
context
of
transactional
metadata.
But
of
course
another
critical
partnership
that's
being
developed
is
with
people
are
going
to
help
improve
the
developer
experience,
and
I
think
you,
you
had
a
conversation
earlier
this
week
around
that.
B
B
I
love
doing
that
piece,
so
I
did
catch
up
with
john
hughes
who's,
the
co-inventor
of
quick
check,
that's
something
that
we
already
use
and
looking
to
partner
with
him
to
build
something
very
similar
for
plutus.
That's
going
to
help
with
the
developer
experience.
So
let's
take
a
look
at
that:
well,
community.
It's
very
exciting
today
for
me
to
introduce
someone
who
doesn't
really
need
much
introduction
in
the
haskell
space
and
in
the
functional
programming
space,
but
I
am
very
honored
to
be
bringing
john
hughes
onto
the
show.
B
N
N
I
could
so
productive
compared
to
the
languages
that
I
was
used
to.
I
was
using
a
before
that
a
forerunner
to
see
which
I
wrote
a
lot
of
code
in
and
after
I
learned
the
first
functional
programming
languages,
then
going
back
to
the
old
way.
It
just
felt
like
wading
knee
deep
through
porridge,
and
so
I
was
in
love
and
I've
been
in
love
with
functional
programming
ever
since.
N
So
I
think
you
were
interested
in
how
quick
check
came
to
be,
and
that
was
actually
round
about
2000.
Well
late,
90s
and
I've
been
doing
something
very
important
for
some
research
project.
I've
been
working
very
hard
and
I
can't
at
all
remember
what
it
was.
But
the
day
came
when
I
had
finished
I'd
met
my
deadline
and
I
had
nothing
to
do
for
a
little
while,
and
I
just
had
some
idea
about
properties
and
testing.
N
I
thought
I'll
just
try
that
out,
and
so
I
I
made
a
little
prototype
kuhn
classen.
My
co-inventor
came
into
my
my
door
and
said
what
you're
doing
I
said,
I'm
having
a
bit
of
fun
and
here's
what
I'm
up
to
and
next
day
he
made
a
new
version
and
then
we
swapped
code
to
and
fro,
and
we
had
the
first
version
of
quick
check
running
in
about
a
week
and
we
did
it
purely
for
fun.
We
didn't
have
research
funding
for
it
or
anything
of
that
sort.
N
It
was
just
that
we
were,
we
thought
would
be
cool,
and
I
think
that
is
one
reason
why
property-based
testing
is
fun.
That
was
its
first
purpose,
but
it's
funny
to
to
test
our
code
and
so
that
that
was
great.
We
wrote
a
paper,
we
won
a
reward
that
was
fine,
but
some
years
later,
then
our
funding
agency.
I
was
leading
a
large
research
project
and
we
showed
what
we
were
doing.
N
B
Right,
I
I
feel
the
same
way.
I
always
feel
like
customer-led
and
innovation
and
is
is
some
of
the
most
amazing
stuff
that
comes
out
of
it.
That's
a
really
interesting
story.
I
actually
didn't
know
that.
That's
that's
pretty
neat
so
cubic
has
now
you
know
it's
it's
progressed.
Quick
check
is
just
one
one
product
that
you
do.
There's
lots
of
other
services
that
that
cubic
provides
as
well
right,
john
yeah.
N
It
turns
out
that
it's
a
very
different
way
of
thinking,
and
so
quite
a
lot
of
our
businesses
in
helping
people
see
how
to
how
to
employ
property
based
testing
effectively,
and
that
was
where
we
came
in
to
work
with
iohk.
For
the
first
time,
ihk
were
already
using
the
haskell
version
of
quick
check
and
we
looked
at
the
code
and
well,
it
wasn't
using
it
the
best
effect.
N
B
We
do
and
we
have
a
lot
of
fans
as
well.
It's
a
quick
check
is
one
of
the
things
that
we
actually
put
in
as
a
value
proposition
for
for
our
product,
because
we
made
the
bet
to
to
actually
build
this
on
haskell
and
in
terms
of
blockchain.
You
know
in
terms
of
blockchain
velocity
haskell
is
a
little
bit
slower
for
us
just
because
we
make
sure
we
do
the
testing
right
the
entire
way.
I
know
you
have
a
different
approach.
B
B
We
take
our
time
and
test
it,
but
eventually,
when
you
do
see
some
lower
level
bugs
or
anything
that
comes
up
in
the
software
forensically,
the
team
is
so
quick
at
figuring
out
where
this
is
and
then
how
to
move
forward.
Is
that
is
that
kind
of
what
you
were.
You
know
we
had
this
discussion
a
little
earlier
today
about
going
fast
with
with
functional
programming
and
quick
check,
and
all
that.
N
Yes
see
you,
of
course
you
can
hack
haskell
code
together
quickly,
just
as
you
can
in
any
programming
language,
but
it
won't
necessarily
that's
not
necessarily
the
right
thing
to
do.
The
nice
thing
about
cultural
programming
is
that
it
lets
you
think
about
the
behavior
and
the
properties
of
your
code
much
more
easily
and
express
them
as
quick
check
tests,
and
when
you
do
that
and
when
you're
generating
tests,
instead
of
just
trying
to
come
up
with
examples,
then
it's
amazing
how
you
find
deep,
deep
mistakes.
I
mean
I
I
have.
N
I
give
a
talk
sometimes
about
some
of
the
bugs
we
found
and
the
kind
of
thing
that
quickjack
just
shows
us
is
well
in
the
first
product
at
erickson
that
we
tested
it.
It
was
for
connecting
a
phone
call.
Okay,
it
customers,
one
by
one.
It
turned
out.
You
add
the
first
caller,
then
you
add
the
second
now
the
call's
in
progress,
but
then
you
can
remove
a
caller,
usually
you'd,
remove
both
of
them,
but
actually
once
you've
removed
one.
N
N
That
does
that,
because
it's
just
such
a
weird
combination,
but
that
was
the
smallest
combination
that
crashed
the
code
and
there
you
know
code
very
often
when
there's
a
mistaking
code,
it
very
often
needs
something
moderately
complicated
to
provoke
it.
We
found
so
many
bugs
that
nobody
would
ever
write
in
a
test
suite
because
you
look
at
it
and
you
think
why
would
you
test
that
right,
yeah?
N
B
N
B
Yes,
exactly
and
so
that
I'm
sold
right,
so
we
we
had.
We
went
through
this
exercise,
shelly's
been
out
for
two
months
now
and
that's
what
we've
been
finding
so
anytime.
There
has
been
a
smaller
bug
or
improvement
that
we
needed
to
make
the
team's
so
quick
on
being
able
to
diagnose
it
and
fix
it.
It's
quite
amazing
actually,
so
that
attests
to
what
the
suite
that
we're
using.
B
So
you
know,
given
that
cardano
is
kind
of
bet
itself
on
on
haskell
plutus,
which
is
a
part
of
our
gogan
era,
and
the
smart
contracts
era
is
also
haskell
derivative
in
a
way
it's
built
on
upon
haskell
and
just
for
just
for
the
members
of
the
community.
In
our
audience
we
have
approached
john
and
kubick
about
partnering
with
us
to
do
the
same
thing
for
pollutus
contracts
that
will
be
available
as
a
tool
set
for
our
developers,
and
you
know
we're
still
in
the
in
the
early
stages
of
figuring
this
out
john.
B
N
We've
all
read
about
cases
with
with
thefts
of
millions
of
tokens
and,
of
course
nobody
wants
that
to
happen
just
because
they
made
a
a
small
mistake
in
a
smart
contract,
and
this
is
the
kind
of
place
where,
where
property-based
testing
can
really
deliver
a
lot
of
value,
because
it's
just
gonna
show
the
mistakes
and
contracts
like
that
right
and
now
exactly
how
we're
going
to
do
it.
We
have
to
work
that
out.
N
Of
course,
we
had
a
nice
meeting
yesterday
with
the
development
team
and
sounds
as
though
the
basics
of
the
way
that
the
contracts
work
is
rather
similar
to
other
cases
that
we've
looked
at
in
the
past.
So
I
think
the
ideas
that
we've
been
developing
in
the
last
decade
we're
going
to
be
able
to
deploy
them
here
and
hopefully
make
something
that
really
makes
a
difference
to
the
reliability
and
the
quality
of
smart
contracts
that
people
deploy,
and
I
think
that's
that's
a
very
exciting
thing
to
work
with.
B
The
premier
experts
on
this,
and
so
bringing
that
experience
into
plutus
to
our
developer
community
is
something
that
I
am
looking
forward
to
our
companies
looking
forward
to
and
we'll
share
more
with
you
guys
as
we
go
forward
and
get
a
little
more
advanced
and
what
this
looks
like
and
how
this
shapes
up,
but
giving
you
a
sneak
peek
into
into
what
we're
doing
for
a
developer
community
on
testing.
So
john.
Thank
you
so
much
for
appearing
on
the
show.
B
A
So
aparna,
that's
nearly
it
a
truly
bumper
show
we
hope
there's
some
of
you
who
are
still
with
us
watching
live.
Thank
you,
as
I
say,
there'll
be
time
stamps
coming
up
in
the
show
recording.
So
you
can
deep
dive
into
some
of
the
sections.
As
you
wish
now,
look
we'd
have
loved
to
have
packed
even
more
in
today,
we'd
love
to
talk
more
about
the
haskell
developers,
who
are
literally
just
graduating
from
the
haskell
course
we've
been
running
in
mongolia.
A
We'd,
also
love
to
have
told
you
more
about
the
activities
at
the
wyoming
hackathon.
Some
of
the
activities
we've
been
doing
there
and
we'll
continue
to
do
throughout
october,
including
two
exciting
developer
challenges,
but
we'll
have
to
tell
you
more
about
that
through
other
channels.
Maybe
let's
just
play
out
today
with
another
piece
of
content
which
we'd
like
to
share
with
you
in
full
soon,
but
charles
was
in
wyoming,
and
he
sat
down
with
our
friend
ben
from
singularity.net
and
let's
maybe
just
play
out
with
that
clip.
R
Yeah,
what
there's
a
number
of
things
that
excite
me
about
about
cardano
and
so
the
simplest
thing
that
we
can
get
from
porting
singularity
net
to
cardano,
by
which
we
mean
initially
putting
a
significant
chunk
of
singularity
and
agi
tokens
onto
cardano.
So
what
what
I
want
to
do
is
make
singularity
net
platform
infrastructure
multi-chain,
and
we
had
that
in
our
minds
from
the
very
beginning.
D
H
R
Maybe
maybe
it
will
be
optimal
for
it
to
be
all
on
some
other
blockchain,
but
for
starters,
you
want
to
make
singular
in
your
infrastructure
multi-chain.
So
some
of
the
agi
tokens
supply
remains
on
ethereum
and
some
migrates
to
to
cardano
and
then
how
much
remains
on
ethereum
and
how
much
goes
to
cardano.
H
R
R
For
your
customers-
and
these
are
both
moving
targets
right
like
right
at
this
exact
moment,
ethereum
is
very,
very
frustrating
to
deal
with
right,
like
it's
insanely,
slow
and
expensive,
to
do
simple
things,
but
I
mean
that's
a
moving
target.
There's
ethereum
2.0!
It
may
be
that
it
becomes
great
great
at
at
something.
I
don't.
I
don't
want
to
write
it
off
right
that
so
I
think
the
simplest
thing
that
we
can
get
from
moving
a
big
chunk
of
singularity
under
cardano
is
just
a
less
inefficient
and
overpriced.
R
Blockchain
infrastructure
right-
and
I
mean
that's
obviously-
is-
is
critical
to
us,
creating
a
singularity
net
that
that
fulfills
our
goals
and
and
becomes
a
decentralized
intelligence
system.
I
mean
the
the
whole
process
of
designing
singularity
infrastructure
was
a
matter
of
trying
to
artfully
work
around
the
slowness
and
expensiveness
of
of
of
ethereum,
which
has
just
gotten
gotten
worse
and
worse,
but
there's
limits
to
how
much
you
can
do
there
right.
So
we
we
need
a
faster,
cheaper,
blockchain
cardano.
R
I
I
think
can
be
that,
but
there
are
other
things
that
that
could
be
that
also
right.
So
I
think,
there's
also
deeper
aspects
of
the
cardano
vision
and
infrastructure
that
are
interesting
to
me
and
that
synergize,
with
with
our
with
our
singularity
net
code
now
and
with
our
singularity
aspirations
going
going
forward.
So
I
think
that
there's
a
big
focus
on
formal
verification
in
in
the
cardano
world
and
as
a
mathematician.
That's
that's
very
interesting
to
me
right
like
I
would.
R
I
would
love
to
see
automated
theory
improvers
running
in
singularitynet
and
leveraging
the
singularity
and
decentralized
ai
network.
I'd
love
to
see
these
decentralized
ai-based,
automated
theorem
provers
put
to
work.
You
know
verifying
smart
contracts
running
on
cardano
and
and
helping
verify
cardano
infrastructure
code
right.
So
there's
obviously,
there's
there's
a
number
of
steps
to
to
get
to
where
this
is
really
being
done,
like
on
the
on
a
efficient
and
large-scale
basis.
But
it's
it's
it's
some,
it's
fairly
clear!
How
one
would
do
that?
Q
So
when
we
look
to
the
future,
we
say:
okay,
well,
we've
built
a
great
blockchain,
but
what
ancillary
technology
do
we
need
to
put
into
this
system
for
it
to
be
useful
at
a
global
scale?
For
many
different
utilities
we
say:
okay,
should
we
do
heavy
investment
in
homomorphic
encryption
or
into
zero
knowledge
proofs
or
to
multi-party
computation?
Whatever
we
look
to
our
partners
and
we
say
well,
what
do
you
guys
need?
Where
do
you
want
to
go?
Q
What
type
of
marketplaces
do
you
want
to
be
involved
in
and
how
can
we
help
build
this
technology
together
and
make
that
consumable
infrastructure
to
grow
with
you?
One
of
the
other
things
about
cardano,
that's
not
as
well
known
at
the
moment,
but
it's
a
huge
pillar
of
the
project
is,
is
the
volterra
component
of
the
project.
Q
So
the
problem
I
just
gave
as
an
example
where
I'd
say
I
have
a
challenge,
something
like
I
want
to
codify
all
of
u.s
law
in
a
way
that
machines
can
operate
and
give
me
meaningful
answers
about.
Well,
then,
there's
a
discussion
of
well
how
to
do
that.
How
much
does
it
cost?
How
many
companies
need
to
be
evolved
and
so
forth?
And
this
is
really
the
crux
of
the
voltaire
framework.
Q
It's
a
collection
of
tools
to
help
that
process
along
to
go
from
an
unstructured,
open
challenge
to
an
actual
plan
of
attack
with
funding
behind
it.
So,
for
example,
singularity
nets,
future
evolutions
or
open
cog.
Future
evolutions
can
actually
run
through
this
process
and
get
funding
for
it.
So
as
your
application
evolves,
not
only
does
it
provide
use
in
utility.
If
you
make
a
good
argument
of
how
enhancing
that
use
and
utilities
beneficial
to
the
cardano
ecosystem,
you
can
now
get
funding
for
it.
Q
Q
So
I
guess
the
question
I
I
have
for
you
is
given
that
we
have
these
capabilities
and
you
know
we're
working
together.
What
would
be
the
most
successful
collaboration,
your
mind?
If
you
had
to
say
you
made
the
decision
come
to
cardano,
and
you
look
back
at
that
decision
five
years
and
in
the
future,
what
types
of
things
had
to
have
happened
for
you
to
say
that
that
was
a
good
decision,
a
successful
collaboration
in
your
mind,
so
that.
R
I
R
Is
the
closest
thing
to
my
heart
as
a
as
a
researcher,
so
I
mean
if,
if
our
technology
developments
aligned
so
that
through
integrating
singularity
net
with
cardano,
you
know,
coupled
with
our
ongoing
work
on
opencog
hyperon,
if
that
came
out
so
that
we
could
create
agi
on
this
decentralized
platform,
I
mean
that
then
hey.
Then
then
I
don't
care.
If
we
got
the
other
goals
done.
R
I
mean
then,
of
course,
of
course,
of
course,
that
will
be
a
tremendous
financial
windfall
for
everyone.
Who's
contributed,
but
it
also
obsoletes
much
of
the
current
money
economy
also
right,
so
that
substantial
progress
toward
agi
is
a
foremost
thing.
In
my
mind,
the
the
other
thing
that's
highly
critical
and
that
obviously
ties
into
that
is
getting
real
traction
in
the
world
for
decentralized
ai
I
mean
now.
R
Almost
all
ai
is
done
within
a
few
large
tech
companies
and
working
closely
with
with
some
government
agencies
and
the
vision
of
singularitynet,
as
well
as
other
projects
in
in
the
in
the
blockchain
meets
ai
space.
I
mean
the
vision
is
that
most
ai
developers
and
most
ai
users
don't
need
to
deal
with
big
tech
companies
right.
R
The
division
is
that
most
ais
should
be
done
in
a
more
peer-to-peer
way
with
individual
developers
or
small
groups,
creating
ai
agents
that
cooperate
with
each
other
and
and
serve
users
who
access
ai
through
this
decentralized
network.
Now
right
now
we're
starting
to
get
a
little
traction
on
singularitynet,
but
it's
a
teeny,
teeny,
tiny
sliver
of
what
big
tech
is
doing
right.
So
I
mean
we
need
to
get
meaningful
traction
so
that
at
least
a
non-trivial
plurality
of
the
world's
ai
processing
is
being
done
in
the
decentralized
ecosystem
rather
than
by
by
big
tech.
R
Q
An
example
of
when
people
say
cardano
needs
partners,
cardona
needs
projects,
it's
not
the
quantity
of
projects,
matters,
it's
the
quality
of
the
projects
and
what
they
seek
to
do
and
what
these
projects
do
to
the
platforms
that
they're
hosted
on.
So
I
for
me
to
answer
the
question
that
I
asked
you
what's
my
hope
out
of
the
partnership
and
the
growth
of
this
over
the
next
three
to
five
years.
Q
Your
needs
force
very
difficult
business
and
technical
requirements
on
the
capabilities
of
cardano
as
a
platform,
and
there's
no
reason
to
go
and
pursue
these
unless
there's
a
commercial
partner,
a
platform,
an
application
that
wants
that
much
like
cryptokitties
kind
of
forces.
The
discussion
of
scalability
on
ethereum.
Similarly,
singularitynet
forces
significantly
more
involved
requirements
on
us,
so
it
makes
our
system
better.
It
makes
me
a
better
ceo.
Q
R
A
very
important
way
of
looking
at
them-
and
I
think
in
in
singularitynet
as
well,
people
in
our
community
are
constantly
asking
me
well
ethereum's,
too
slow,
ethereum's
too
expensive.
Won't
you
move
on
to
a
faster
blockchain
and,
of
course,
there's
something
there's
something
to
that.
On
the
other
hand,
it's
it's
a
very
narrow
way
of
looking
at
it
exactly
right
and
what
we
need
is
not
just
a
faster
blockchain.
R
Q
Q
Exactly
and
I
cannot
wait
to
have
these
conversations
throughout
the
years,
especially
as
we
get
into
data
privacy
and
how
to
mine
that
well,
there's
never
enough
time.
Thank
you,
everyone
for
listening.
This
has
been
an
interview
with
ben
and
charles
talking
a
bit
about
singularitynet
and
cardano
and
some
great
ideas,
and
I
hope
to
do
many
more
of
these
with
many
other
partners.
Thanks
for
a
great
conversation.