►
From YouTube: Cardano Monthly Update - December 2020
Description
Join your hosts Tim Harrison & Aparna Jue for our last monthly show of 2020, where we bring you the freshest news on Cardano, a bit of a look ahead to 2021 and a bit of a look back on the year that was!
(0:00) Welcome to the December monthly product update with Aparna Jue and Tim Harrison
(1:51) IOHK’s Chief technical officerRomain Pellerin and director of operations Gerard Moroney reflect on the milestones reached in 2020.
(11:15) Darko Mijic, Filip Dimitrijevic, and Sebastian Guillemot give an update on the progress made in Daedalus and Yoroi in 2020.
(23:44) Dor Garbash highlights achievements from Project Catalyst and shows a sneak peek into on-chain governance in 2021.
(32:35) Vukasin Vukoje, Michael Peyton Jones, and Dimitris Poulopoulos preview Goguen developments for 2021.
(38:07) Vukasin Vukoje demonstrates the new KEVM devnet, launched today.
(41:37) Sandro Coretti-Drayton unpacks side chains and the Hydra Protocol.
(50:32) Romain Pellerin dives into Nervos Network with Kevin Wang.
(1:00:33) Jon Woodard of Wolfram Research talks about the new partnership between Wolfram and IOHK.
(1:08:00) Aparna Jue and Jon Woodward talk product\market fit of oracles in blockchain.
(1:15:26) Brandon Smith Of Bondly introduces the value add of their new partnership with IOHK.
(1:27:27) Rod Alexander gets an update from John O’Connor about the development of African operations.
(1:38:43) Aparna Jue and Tim Harrison give their highlights for 2020.
You can also access the show via the Crowdcast platform https://www.crowdcast.io/e/december-cardano
A
Hello
and
welcome
everybody
to
our
holiday
special
show.
I
apologize
in
advance
for
the
guitar.
I
won't
wear
it
for
the
whole
thing
you
don't
have
to
put
up
with
me
now.
Some
people
have
an
elf
on
a
shelf,
but
I've
got
a
santa
on
ashore,
but
anyway,
with
that
bad
gag,
let's
kick
things
straight
off.
I
think
welcome
everybody
to
the
last
show
of
the
year.
It's
great
to
have
you
here.
We've
got
some
great
updates
for
you
today,
we'll
go
through
a
bunch
of
stuff.
A
B
A
And
then
closing
off
the
show.
We've
got
a
little
bit
of
an
update
on
africa
now
to
be
clear,
we're
not
going
to
be
making
announcements
on
the
show
today,
but
we
have
got
an
exclusive
interview
with
john
o'connor,
our
head
of
african
operations,
to
tell
us
about
all
the
work
that's
been
going
on
this
year
and
perhaps
some
of
the
things
to
look
forward
to
in
2021.
A
So
let's
kick
things
off
now:
we've
delivered
a
lot
this
year
a
lot
has
gone
on
and
a
lot
has
changed
internally.
That's
enabled
us
to
deliver
on
those
those
objectives,
so
we
thought
we'd
introduce
a
few
people.
Who've
been
working
behind
the
scenes
who
you
might
not
have
seen
so
much
of
this
year,
but
perhaps
should
have
seen
more
of
so.
Maybe
let's
go
to
that
clip
now.
B
So
welcome,
roman
and
jair,
our
cto
and
head
of
operations
to
the
show.
These
guys
are
the
behind
the
scenes
ensuring
that
we
have
smooth
operations
and
continually
improving
our
delivery
process.
I
did
want
to
celebrate
the
fact
that,
a
year
ago,
last
holiday
season,
we
were
a
totally
different
company.
We
looked
totally
different.
We
acted
totally
different.
We
were
focused
on
the
great
research
and
the
great
engineering,
but
we
hadn't
really
productized
it
very
well
or
delivered
on
schedule
in
a
scheduled
manner.
B
C
To
have
worked
out
all
along
this
year
and
deliver
the
key
key
milestones
so
chile
and
all
the
various
improvements
we
we've
done
for
the
user
experience.
You
know
designing
the
the
staple
operators
with
the
stakeholder
operator,
the
the
ux
about
managing
a
stake
pool
and
how
we
can
improve
our
protocol
was
was
key.
C
I
think,
on
the
second
part
of
the
year.
We
we
also
built
you
know
the
essentials
tools
for
releasing
the
milestones
in
2021,
like
the
the
integration
of
scripts
like
token
locking,
for
example,
the
multi-asset
standard
to
launch
next
year,
the
the
native
tokens,
the
fact
that
we
are
specifying
the
eu
txo
integration
in
the
node
to
support
protest
integration
next
year,
the
catalyst
project
for
the
treasury
system,
the
privilege
prototype
for
the
the
update
system.
A
The
volume
of
github
prs,
for
example,
is
just
one
outward
indication
of
all
the
busy
work.
That's
been
going
on
remain,
but
yeah,
maybe
from
an
operational
point
of
view.
Probably
also
unrecognizable
is
the
predictability
of
our
software
releases
compared
to
a
year
ago.
What's
happened
there
and
how
have
we?
How
have
we
got
to
this
point?.
D
Well,
I
think
what
we
we've
gone
from
is
a
mode
where
we're
trying
to
plan
very
accurately
huge
releases
further
into
the
future,
and
we
we've
adopted
a
a
truly,
more
agile
approach,
where
we
release
small
increments.
Very
often
that
has
a
number
of
benefits
in
terms
of
we,
the
small
things
we
put
out,
we
can
get
regular
feedback
and
that
helps
to
improve
our
software.
D
I
think
we're
also
pragmatic
about
the
fact
that
there
are
things
in
the
in
the
short
term.
We
can
predict
well
and
things
that
are
further
away
is
not
going
to
be
as
easy
to
predict
and
and
we
we
we've
been
setting
expectations
with
with
all
of
our
stakeholders
what
we
can
do
and
when
I
think
that
has
been
evidence
in
the
fact
that
you
know
the
the
the
alleged
release
and
the
hard
fork.
We're.
D
Probably
I
think
within
within
two
weeks
of
when
we
predicted
that
that
would
happen
and
and
we're
we're
all
very
pleased
with
that-
that's
had
a
consequent
impact
on
on
the
the
happiness
of
our
team.
I
think
we
have
a
happier
team
right
now.
Our
management
are
better
able
to.
You,
know,
trust
the
figures
that
we're
giving
them
and
our
community
know.
What's
what's
what
to
expect
and
when
so
it's
been
good.
D
B
A
And
nervous,
of
course,
we're
also
featuring
on
the
tonight
shiraman,
you
had
a
word
with
them
for
us,
so
thank
you
for
that.
We'll
get
that
separately,
but
yeah,
maybe
just
to
close
off
we've
talked
about
improvements
in
predictability
and
tracking
development
velocity
in
some
of
these
areas.
What.
D
We
have
a
lot
of
new
products
coming
out
and
a
lot
of
new
features
which
which
is
very
intensive
in
terms
of
engaging
with
the
community
and
for
us
engaging
with
the
community,
is
the
most
important
thing
to
get
that
feedback.
So
we
know
we're
doing
the
right
thing
so.
Release
managers
are
going
to
help
us
to
to
better
hear
what
the
voice
of
our
customers
and
to
feed
that
back
into
our
product
team.
D
C
Yeah,
what
I
can
add
on
on
that
is
that
we
we
have
a
good
predictability
now
two
quarters,
I
would
say
of
predictability
and
the
fact
that
we
organize
ourselves
better
will
help
us
digesting
the
the
key
milestones
that
are
ahead
right:
launching
the
native
tokens,
the
smart
contract
layer,
the
different
languages
on
top
of
office
and
and
empowering
the
community
with
with
decentralized
governance.
I
mean
there's
a
lot
on
the
table
right
now,.
A
Okay,
so
thanks
to
jer
and
rama
for
for
that
update
there
I
mean
this
show
upon
is
very
much
about
celebrating
the
year,
which
at
times
has
been
very
difficult
for
a
lot
of
people.
Let's
not
forget
that,
and
we've
still
got
some
challenges
ahead
of
us,
but
I
think
we've
in
terms
of
a
project
and
in
terms
of
the
community.
We've
come
a
really
long
way.
This
year
now
another
product,
that's
developed
a
lot
over
the
course
of
the
last
year,
of
course,
is
deadless.
A
A
F
We
had
tremendous
progress.
This
year
tim,
there
were
more
than
40
dead
house
releases,
which
is
more
than
all
previous
years.
Combined
I'll,
probably
highlight
four
things
in
particular:
the
byron
reboot
shelley
release
and
refinement
of
shelley
features.
Automatic
updates
and
hardware
wallets
this
year
started
with
bayern
reboot
a
series
of
daedalus
1.x
releases.
F
F
It
also
unlocked
advancements
in
reliability
and
performance
for
dedos.
This
also
meant
a
significant
reduction
in
connection
issues
and
significant
speed
improvements
for
blockchain,
synchronization
and
wallet
restoration,
dedus
also
gained
the
ability
to
manage
wallets
while
blockchain
is
still
synchronizing.
F
Sure
tim
daedalus
differs
from
the
rest
of
cardano
wallets
on
the
market
by
being
a
full
node
wallet.
Fullnode
provides
fully
trustless
operation
and
maximum
security
and
privacy,
because
datalose
independently
validates
every
transaction
in
the
history
of
the
cardano
blockchain.
It
does
not
rely
on
any
third-party
servers
or
services.
F
So
shelley
was
a
moment
in
itself
when
it
went
live,
but
of
course
it
has
also
driven
many
of
the
improvements
we've
made
through
the
year.
The
first
release
was
a
real
big
bang
release,
since
we
needed
to
release
all
call
shelley
features
at
once
for
the
shelley
era.
To
start,
we
got
shelley
activation
countdown
stake,
pools
delegation
and
earning
rewards
with
shelley.
We
also
got
new
shelley
wallets
with
greatly
improved
security
and
enhanced
underlying
cryptography.
F
We
have
continued
improving
shelley
features
by
continuously
improving
the
ranking
system
and
the
delegation
user
experience.
We
have
learned
that
some
users
prefer
comparing
stake,
pool
parameters
instead
of
seeing
the
ranking
in
the
tile
view.
Detours
240
also
brought
potential
rewards
estimation
and
the
new
sortable
view
for
stake
pools.
F
This
was
something
that
many
members
of
the
community
have
been
asking
for,
and
we
have
edited
with
database
230,
taking
away
the
need
for
manually
downloading
data's
installers
from
the
deadlifts
website.
Every
time
you
update
instead
of
this
device
automatically
downloads
and
installs
the
update
and
you
get
alerted
by
the
news
feed
another
really
handy
feature.
F
Yes,
indeed,
this
was
a
complex
project,
so
we
are
very
pleased
to
have
it
in
this
year.
So
data
lose
three
zero.
Zero
release
brought
ledger
nano
s
ledger
nano
x
and
resource
model.
T
support
to
data
loss
ada
held
on
hardware
vaults,
can
now
be
delegated
with
datalose
hardware
wallets,
provide
cold
storage
for
private
keys,
combining
this
with
the
full
node
properties
mentioned
before,
make
details
the
most
secure,
cardano
wallet
on
the
market
and
2020
the
most
significant
year
for
datalose.
F
A
G
That's
true
team.
Indeed.
Yes
I
have,
and
if
I
may
say
it
has
been
a
pleasure
to
work
with
these
vendors
and
partners.
So
far
so
far
we
have
been
mostly
working
on
the
stake,
pool
operator
and
donor
features
to
enable
the
people
that
maintain
our
network
treasure
and
ledger
support
to
increase
the
level
of
security.
You
know
which
is
no
small
concern.
I
mean
just
look
at
all
the
real
life
examples.
G
You
know
another
media
about
the
hacks
so
on,
and
so
on
so
far,
we've
added
the
futures
for
state
co-operatives
to
pledge
using
their
hardware
devices
and
very
soon
at
the
beginning
of
january.
I
hope
we
will
have
the
app
that
will
enable
creating
and
retiring
staples
as
well.
This
is
just
for
ledger
on
just
to
be
more
precise.
G
We
are
also
currently
coordinating
and
communicating
the
you
know
the
releasing
of
this
new
firmware
versions,
because
it's
not
even
released
with
both
ledger
and
trezor,
but
we
need
to
keep
in
mind
that
you
know
hardware.
Suppliers
have
their
own
roadmaps
and
priorities,
so
we
just
a
little
bit
of
patience.
You
know
to
have
it
released.
Finally,.
A
G
Well,
our
value
proposition
as
a
project
in
whole
includes
you
know,
security
and
interoperability.
We
have
worked
a
lot
this
year
to
include
this
specific
user
persona
into
how
we
plan
you
know.
Hence
our
reasoning
to
work
on
horizon
above
and
beyond.
Just
the
integration
park
part
sorry,
one
of
these
things,
if
you
want
to
and
you're
currently
exploring
options
on,
is
the
hybrid
wallet
which
charles
mentioned
before
this
is,
in
short
term,
just
a
wallet
that
combines
hot
and
cold
environments.
You
know
for
improved
convenience.
G
Besides
that
we
want
to
release
multisig
support
on
hardware
wallets
as
well.
You
know
and
token
locking
to
support
catalyst
as
an
app.
You
know
for
the
voting
process,
and
now
that
cocaine
is
rolling
out,
we
want
to
hear
it.
You're
talking,
support
and
hardware
wallets
as
well.
You
know
to
have
the
full
circle,
the
full
package,
if
you
wanted.
A
So
darko
one
of
the
things
that
that
you
haven't
mentioned,
but
I
know
we've
seen
a
lot
of
conversations
this
year
around-
is
the
deadliest
flight
program,
which
is,
of
course,
the
main
net
pre-release
wallet
program
that
previews
the
features
for
the
power
users.
Any
further
plans
for
deadlifts
flight
in
2021.
F
Dead
lose
flight
is
a
main
at
wallet,
but
ultimately
it's
a
test
program.
It
was
set
up
to
engage
the
community
in
testing
processes
and
that's
both
testing
improvements
and
squashing
bugs
the
flight
program
was
the
key
to
the
success
of
that
olds.
We
are
grateful
for
everyone
who
have
participated
and
helped
us
identify
and
fix
the
issues.
A
So
darko
the
the
flight
program
is
obviously
just
one
way
that
the
community
and
users
have
been
able
to
contribute
to
the
the
evolution.
The
development
of
deadlifts,
another
more
direct
way,
of
course,
is
with
with
feedback,
and
we
we
put
out
a
survey
in
november.
I
understand:
how
are
you
going
to
be
using
the
results
of
this
survey
to
affect
the
development
roadmap
for
deadlifts.
F
Most
recently,
our
team
is
bringing
even
more
voice
of
the
community.
In
with
the
survey,
we
had
an
amazing
response,
more
than
five
thousand
responses
from
deadlocks
users
and
around
100
from
the
state
pool
operators.
We
are
in
the
process
of
analyzing
it
to
help
the
deadliest
product
improvements
and
to
guide
the
2021
roadmap.
F
There
are
many
interesting
things
coming
to
dedolus
in
2021
we
will
introduce
decentralized
identity
and
many
features
stemming
from
having
the
on-chain
identity.
For
example,
spos
will
be
able
to
link
all
of
their
pools
with
their
own
chain
identity
and
by
doing
so
avoid
staple
ticker,
takeover
or
spoofing.
F
Next
multi-signature
wallets
will
bring
the
ultimate
security
to
deadlocks
by
requiring
multiple
signatures
from
a
single
person
or
from
a
group
of
people
with
multiple
hardware
wallets.
To
make
a
transaction
then
go
gen
features.
You
will
be
able
to
forge
native
tokens
and
transact
with
native
tokens
on
cardano.
F
Smart
contracts
will
bring
defy
to
cardano
and
significantly
increase
cardano's
utility
fund
tree
catalyst.
Voting
will
unlock
even
more
funding
for
community-led
initiatives
and
d5
solutions
on
cardano
new
paper
wallets
will
bring
the
security
of
pgp
encryption
combined
with
the
convenience
of
the
qr
codes
and
finally,
stake
pool
owner
and
staple
operator
features
will
enable
managing
pledge
and
stake
pulls
through
deadlocks.
All
of
this
with
the
security
of
the
ledger
hardware
wall
devices
with
private
keys,
stored
safely
and
always
offline.
I
Hey
everyone.
I
just
want
to
give
a
brief
update
on
the
work
we're
doing
at
emergo
for
the
upcoming
hard
forks.
So
we
have
a
rust
library,
that's
used
by
many
exchanges
and
wallets,
and
this
library
has
already
been
updated
for
the
allegro
hard
fork
and
is
mostly
ready
for
the
mario
kart
for
work,
as
ihk
makes.
The
final
changes
to
the
mary's
specification,
we'll
just
tweak
aaron
library
to
get
working.
That
means
that,
in
the
background,
we're
also
working
to
update
the
uto
extension
and
uterine
mobile
to
have
multi-access
support.
I
So
I'm
really
excited
about
this
upcoming
feature.
Obviously
we're
working
with
our
partners
to
deliver
all
the
other
features
that
aren't
strictly
related
to
hard
forks,
like
multi-account
support
for
hardware,
wallets
and
multi-sig
support,
but
these
are
kind
of
secondary
features
and
their
primary
focus
right
now
is
on
on
the
fireforks
and
any
extra
time
we
have.
We
spend
on
these
other
features
that
the
community
really
wants
and
we're
hoping
to
get
released
sometime
early
next
year.
B
That's
a
really
nice
update
from
darko,
philip
and
from
sebastian
on
the
status
of
the
wallets
and
the
hardware
wallet
piece.
I
do
want
to
mention
that
a
lot
of
the
user-facing
products
that
we
have
we
have
been
working
very
very
hard
to
bring
the
community
voice
even
more
into
the
product,
design
and
development
than
we
have
in
the
past
and
highlighting
the
fact
that
darko
ben
ben,
from
your
team,
tim
and
also
mike
from
the
user
experience
team,
have
done
a
great
job
with
that
survey,
which
we
got
like
over
5000.
Something
responses
to.
B
So
we
are
collating
those
responses
and
taking
a
look
at
that
in
an
ideation
session
format
and
we're
going
to
add
into
the
roadmap
the
improvements
from
that
feedback,
and
we
will
share
a
lot
of
that
progress
with
the
audiences
and
with
our
show,
within
our
show,
as
we
go
forward
so
really
exciting
news
on
that
one
so
jumping
from
deadlifts
to
another
product,
that's
incredibly
user-facing
and
led
by
a
very
user-facing
product
manager.
Indoor,
so
he's
got
some
great
statistic:
updates
for
us
on
fun,
2
and
what's
in
store
for
2021.
B
J
Sure
yeah
I'd
love
to
I
mean
I
think
I
think
beyond
that.
If
you
know
before
I
even
jump
into
the
statistics
and
the
numbers,
I
just
want
to
say
that
it's
kind
of
like
a
tour
de
force
of
the
cardano
community,
seeing
the
level
of
involvement
and
engagement
and
seeing
how
any
sort
of
challenge
any
sort
of
expectations
we
through
to
this
community.
J
J
Okay,
so
now
back
to
the
statistics.
Okay,
so
we
had,
we
just
finished
the
snapshot
for
too
we
have
more
than
1700
registered
wallets.
This
is
I
mean
I
you
know
I'm
I'm.
This
is
like
history
in
the
making.
Okay,
I
was
saying
I
was
said
before
the
registration
that
we're
gonna
make
history,
and
now
now
I
can
say
for
sure
we're
making
history,
because
this
is
bigger
than
any
other
innovation
decentralized
innovation
fund.
J
You
know
you
look
at
the
actual
innovation,
memberships
of
around
4
thousand
members
on
a
d
scale,
80
80,
proposing
teams
we
had
more,
but
this
is
like
the
the
amount
that
are
actually
on
the
ballot
80,
proposing
teams
with
with
amazing
proposals
and
around
100
community
advisors,
so
that
members
from
the
community
took
time
to
to
go
and
review
and
give
their
give
their
assessment
on
on
this
proposal.
So
what
we're
seeing
here
is
we're
on
the
verge
of
of
of
something
really
big
and
we're
starting
to
realize
the
potential.
A
J
For
sure
for
sure
the
next,
for
me,
the
for
me
next
year
is
is
all
about
rapid
deployment
and
predictability,
and
so
we
can
continue
to
increase
our
capacity
to
experiment.
Okay.
So
last
year
our
team
will
launch
three
funds
fund
zero
fund.
One
fund
two
next
year,
we're
going
to
triple
that
capacity.
We're
going
to
launch
nine
funds
every
six
weeks,
we're
gonna,
deploy
out
the
it's
kind
of
like
I'm
like
excited
and
scared
at
the
same
time,
but
mostly
excited
because
now
we
got
fun
to
out
of
the
door.
J
It
feels
it
feels
very
reachable.
We're
gonna
move
from
a
quarter
million
dollar
round
of
funding
like
fantu,
gradually
carefully
into
multi-million
dollar
rounds.
This
is
going
to
help
us
launch
an
ecosystem
of
depths
and
and
what's
important,
is
this
ecosystem
is
not
you
know,
there's
no,
like
two
investors
there
that
are
like
distributing
the
money.
You
know
there's
not
like
a
small
group
of
people.
This
is
like
this.
J
Let's
see,
I
think
and
and
we're
building
the
infrastructure
for
decentralization
for
further
decentralization
and-
and
you
know
it's
gonna
gonna
take
some
time.
I
think
I
think
what
we,
what
what
we're
gonna
see
is
that
the
the
actual
impact
and
the
innovation
and
what
this
community
produces
is
going
to
outpace.
A
J
Things
I'm
excited
okay,
so
so
one
thing
I'm
really
excited
is
we're
going
to
launch
a
cohort.
The
catalyst
cohorts
will
will
start
starting
from
fun
too,
from
the
winners
of
the
fun
too.
This
is
basically
it's
kind
of
like
modeled,
after
let's
say,
like
accelerators,
okay,
accelerators
and
incubators,
so
we're
gonna
take
all
the
teams
that
are
that
that
want
the
votes
and
we're
gonna
nurture
them.
J
We're
gonna
help
them
they're,
going
to
we're
going
to
make
them
meet
each
other
and
and
and
synergize,
and
do
things
together
and
give
each
other
support
we're
going
to
give
them
some
professional
support,
as
they
need
we're
going
to
help
them,
remove,
blockers
and
and
we're
setting
up
this
foundation.
So
this
court,
every
six
weeks,
is
just
gonna,
grow
and
grow
and
and
we're
creating
this.
This
amazing
bottom-up
network
of
of
innovators,
so
I'm
really
excited
about
that.
There
there
are.
J
J
A
A
A
So
please
do
make
sure
you
do
that
and
even
if
you
haven't,
go
and
take
a
look
at
the
idea,
scale
platform
see
all
the
great
ideas
there
enjoy
reading
through
those
and
of
course
we
have
fun
three
coming
up
to
look
forward
to
in
2021
as
well.
So
please
do
get
involved
with
that
aparna.
So
gogan
I
mean
gogans
have
been
a
massive
focus
both
in
terms
of
our
development
role
out,
but
also
in
terms
of
the
show
for
the
last
few
months.
But
perhaps
we've
got
a
few
updates.
B
Yes,
it's
a
little
bit
of
a
short
update.
However,
it's
it's
very
it's
very
to
the
point.
We've
got
demetrius
from
the
operations
side.
Look
from
my
team
on
the
product
side
and
michael
payton
jones
from
the
technology
side
is
the
lead
and
they're
going
to
walk
us
through
the
program
and
a
little
more
on
plutus
and
some
native
tokens.
So
it's
it's
a
good
update.
So,
let's,
let's
go
ahead
straight
into
that.
B
K
K
We're
gonna
have
the
pluto
foundation,
release,
which
is
a
big
one,
and
also
we're
working
in
parallel
with
the
bluetooth
simplification
team.
That's
working
on
the
bluetooth
application,
refresh,
that's
scheduled
for
january.
If
all
goes
well
and
then
we
are
also
releasing
the
first
version
of
the
pluto's
application
framework,
which
is
another
great
milestone
for
us.
And
last
but
not
least,
we
have
also
the
marlow
releases
that
are
coming
up
in
line
with
the
bluetooth
application
framework.
So
a
busy
year
coming
up
too.
A
So
so
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
pluto's
in
there
and
we'll
have
michael
from
the
pluto's
team
joining
us
very
shortly
as
well.
But
before
we
do,
perhaps
you
can
just
talk
through
the
native
asset
pre-production
environment,
which
demetrius
mentioned
there.
How's
that
been
going
so
tell
us
a
little
bit
about
the
experience
that
people
can
get
at
the
moment
and
how
that's
going
to
evolve
over
the
months
ahead.
L
Yes
sure
so
the
pre-production
environment
allows
users
to
mean
tokens
custom
tokens
that
they
define
trundle
cli.
Basically
with
a
couple
of
commands,
they
can
define
the
the
custom
token
they
want
and
we
are
seeing
a
lot
of
activity
on
that.
Even
though
the
experience
is
not
great
because
that's
more
a
technical
tool
and
very
few
people
can
actually
have
the
expertise
to
to
use
such
a
tool.
A
L
B
L
Yeah
so
for
well,
the
last
couple
of
days
were
very
intensive
and
we
made
a
great
deal
of
progress
and
we
are
very
confident
that
that
the
avm
integration
is
going
to
be
finalized
soon
much
more
confident
than
five
days
ago.
So
things
are
looking
great
and
yeah.
We
expect
to
have
something
very
soon
and
in
fact
we
are
currently
sharing
what
we
have
with
the
partners
that
are
working
with
us
so
that
they
can
start
building.
On
top
of
that
which
gives
an
idea
of
their
ability
of
that.
A
M
So
2021
is
obviously
a
big
year
for
us
we're
finally
going
to
land
the
stuff
that
we've
been
working
on
for
for
ages,
which
is
great,
and
I'm
really
happy
about,
and
so
at
this
point
the
main
focuses
are
on
tidying
up.
The
last
loose
ends:
improving
performance,
tidying
up
details
with
with
the
cost
model.
M
Obviously
this
is
only
the
start
of
what's
hopefully
going
to
be
a
long
and
fruitful
relationship
with
the
developer
community
and
we've
got
a
lot
of
tools
to
offer
them
to
help
them
get
started.
Writing
things,
but
there's
plenty
more
to
do
and
we're
looking
forward
to
that
becoming
a
more
of
a
dialogue
with
an
actual
community
of
developers.
A
L
So
the
first
thing
I
did
is
I
cloned
the
mallet
triple
and
manage
repo.
I
have
a
folder
with
a
smart
contract
that
I'm
going
to
use.
The
smart
contract
is
a
simple
counter
that
is
using
solidity.
Eight,
let's
check
it
out,
as
you
can
see
here,
it's
using
solidity,
eight
and
it's
the
implementation
of
a
simple
contour.
L
L
L
L
A
A
So
partner
we've
talked
about
gogan,
we
talked
about
shelley
basho
basho
is
next
on
the
menu
right,
we'll
be
kicking
off
the
development
phase
in
2021
for
basho.
So
let's
talk
about
that
for
a
little
while
shall
we
I
mean
first
of
all,
let's
run
a
clip.
I
spoke
to
sandro
who's,
one
of
the
key
researchers
behind
the
protocol
to
learn
a
little
bit
more
about
that
and
then
maybe
a
partner
and
you-
and
I
can
just
talk
a
little
bit
more
about
the
practicalities
of
delivery
for
that.
So
let's
go
to
that
clip.
A
G
So
when
you
hear
about
blockchain
protocols,
two
terms
that
will
pop
up
often
are
layer
one
and
layer,
two
solutions.
Now,
when
people
talk
about
layer
one,
they
talk
about
the
consensus
protocol
itself
in
the
case
of
cardano,
that
would
be
uroboros,
whereas
layer,
two
protocols,
they
run
on
top
of
the
consensus
layer
on
top
of
layer,
one
and
hydra
is
a
layer
two
protocol.
G
G
A
G
One
thing
that
we
don't
do
in
hydra
is
measure
performance
in
terms
of
transactions
per
second
or
tps.
Why
is
that?
We
think
that
there
are
some
serious
issues
with
the
tps
measure.
One
of
them
is
that
transactions
often
don't
have
the
same
size,
that
is
some
transactions,
may
be
purely
payments
and
therefore
are
relatively
small
and
relatively
easy
to
process,
whereas
other
transactions
may
include
the
execution
of
a
complex,
smart
contract
and
consequently
take
a
very
long
time
to
process.
G
Furthermore,
if
you
determine
the
tps
of
a
particular
protocol
at
the
end,
you
always
end
up
having
the
the
hardware
and
the
network
that
was
used
for
the
for
performing
the
measurements
built
in
sort
of
into
your
final
tps
software.
So
therefore,
tps
is
a
very
poor
indicator
of
protocol
quality.
In
fact,
you
could
design
a
very
bad
protocol
and
run
it
over
a
very
good
network
and
it
might
still
perform
well
and
therefore
not
the
tps
number
doesn't
give
you
a
lot
of
insight.
A
G
Is,
as
we
already
mentioned,
is
suite
of
several
protocols
that
give
you
different
flavors
of
multi-party
state
channels.
One
such
flavor
is
the
head
protocol,
which
also
inspires
the
name
of
the
entire
hydra
suite.
The
head
protocol
is
run
by
nodes
that
are
always
online.
Examples
of
such
notes
are
stake,
pools.
They
are
always
online.
They
they
are
responsible
for
running
the
main
channel
anyway.
G
So
these
always
online
notes
they
they
can
run
a
a
head
which,
as
we
said
before,
is
evolve
a
substate
of
the
ledger
off
chain
that
the
guarantee
is
that,
if
I
participate
in
this
protocol,
I
cannot
lose
money
as
long
as
I'm
online,
even
when
the
other
participants
cheat
or
and
don't
follow
the
protocol.
A
great
advantage
of
this
head
protocol
is
that
it
in
the
optimizat
where
all
head
members
follow
the
protocol.
It
is
very,
very
fast
and
the
transaction
rate
can
be
very
high.
G
The
scenario
here
is
that
there's
one
always
online
operator
and
an
arbitrary
number
of
low
availability,
clients
and
the
guarantees
here
are
that
clients
cannot
lose
money.
Even
when
they
are
offline
for
extended
periods
of
time,
and
even
if
the
operator
misbehaves
and
doesn't
follow
the
protocol
again
when
the
operator
behaves,
the
tail
can
also
very
quickly
confirm
and
process
transactions
and
at
a
very
high
rate,
just
like
the
head
protocol.
A
So
palmer
it's
it's
great
to
start
to
see
something
that
we've
spoken
about
on
a
theoretical
basis
and
a
research
basis
for
so
long
starting
to
come
to
fruition
in
terms
of
being
developed
into
an
actual
deplorable
piece
of
code,
but
maybe
upon
you
can
just
tell
us
a
little
bit
more
about
that
process
and,
of
course,
scalability
and
transactional
capability
is
what
this
is
all
about.
Really,
isn't
it.
B
B
So
one
thing
we're
seeing
in
the
blockchain
space
are
transactions
that
are
needed
for
applications
around
payments
or
even
just
general,
back
and
forth
for
other
applications.
They
can
tend
to
become
very
expensive
costs
can
get
out
of
hand
and
especially
the
more
decentralized
network
the
more
transaction
fees
could
increase.
B
I
mean
the
lightning
lightning
network
on
bitcoin
is
very
close,
so
the
what
they
do
in
terms
of
payments,
but
then
hydra
doesn't
necessarily
compete
with
that.
It
augments
that
whole
process
and
what
it
can
do
is
look
at.
We
can
now
start
to
look
at
decentralized
exchanges,
for
example,
as
how
we
can
get
that
on
to
to
the
chain-
and
charles
has
been
talking
about
this
from
a
vision
perspective.
B
We
can
start
to
do
that
once
hydra
is
fully
realized
and
put
onto
the
cardano
chain
as
an
addition,
additional
improvement
to
scalability
and
performance,
the
other
one
is
oracles
right.
It's
their
oracle
solutions
and
decentralized
oracle
solutions,
anything
that
has
to
do
with
cross-chain
communications
or
sidechain
communications
and
improving
the
way
those
happen
from
a
speed
and
a
and
a
cost
perspective.
B
A
Great
thank
you,
yeah,
we're
all
looking
forward
to
seeing
that
that
project
progress.
Maybe
let's
switch
to
some
use
cases.
Now
now
this
week
a
number
of
you
may
have
seen
some
partner
announcements.
We
announced
bondly,
we
announced
nervous
and
we
also
announced
a
very
exciting
new
partnership
with
wolf
from
blockchain
labs.
So
we'll
run
a
few
clips.
Now
back
to
back,
we
asked
roman
to
talk
to
the
guys
at
nervos.
A
N
Yeah
nervous
network
is
a
public
blockchain
with
a
smart
contract,
a
smart
contract
platform
and
it's
a
proof
of
work
and
proof
of
work
based
and
also
we
use
from
ledger
structure.
We
use
something
called
the
cell
model,
which
is
very
similar
to
which
is
a
generalized
utxo
model,
and
so
for
for
us.
We
started
the
project
in
early
in
january
2018,
so
it's
been
more
than
two
years
and
our
team
started
with
you
know,
working
with
the
ethereum
ecosystem
and
community.
N
So
one
of
our
co-founders
was
a
core
researcher
and
developer
for
for
ethereum,
and
then
you
know
some
of
the
other
founders
did
various.
You
know
community
building
and
then
you
know,
mining
pools,
engineering,
for
you
know
the
the
largest
ethereum
wallet
cto
for
the
largest
wallet
so
yeah,
so
we
came
together
in
2018
and
we
wanted
to
build
a
blockchain.
That's
that
we
believe
solved
many
of
the
ethereum's
problems.
N
N
One
is
you
know
whenever
you
need
a
very
cheap
layer,
two
solutions.
For
example,
you
know
instant
payment
and
you
know
payment
channels
and
things
like
that.
We
have
solutions
that
optimize
for
those
and
then,
when
you
need,
you
know
when
you
need
a
sort
of
mainstream
user
adoption.
I
think
we
also
have
advantages,
because
we're
able
to
do
you
know
what's
equivalent
of
account
abstraction
in
ethereum.
N
We
call
that
you
know
abstract
cell
model,
which
is
you
know
we
can
go
to
that
the
technical
terms,
and
so
it
allows
both
integration
with
other
blockchains,
really
really
easy,
as
well
as
onboarding
new
users
and
especially
mainstream
users,
without
having
you
know,
without
having
to
installing
new
wallets
and
basically
meeting
where
users
are,
and
the
third
thing
is
the
economic
model.
I
think
this
is
for
the
long
term.
We
have
economic
model
that
built
specifically
for
store
value
right
for
store
of
what
we
call
store
of
assets.
N
C
N
Yeah,
I
think
proof
of
stake
and
proof
of
work.
That's
just
one.
You
know
one
one
feature
of
a
blockchain
right,
so
how
to
do
civil
business
and
I
think
fundamentally,
I
think
both
cardano
and
nervous
choose
the
utah
expo
model.
I
think
that's
really
interesting
and
there
are
very
few
smart
contract
capable
platforms
that
are
choosing
utex.
So
I
think
this
is
you
know
where
we
want
to.
We
want
to
work
together
and
yeah.
We're
definitely
going
to
you
know:
do
research
efforts
and
collaborate
in
this
area
so.
C
N
You
know
of
your
research
and
also,
I
think-
and
this
is
how
we
got
to
meet
together
this
time
again.
Is
we
read
one
of
your
papers
talking
about
the
utex
model
and
programming
and
then
and
then
we
reach
out,
because
we
also
had
a
lot
of
research
and
engineering
effort
in
this
area.
So
I
think
it
would
be
good
to
join
force
and
yeah
share
the
research
efforts.
C
N
Sort
of
you
know
cannot
foresee
how
the
contract
is.
Contract
will
be
used
by
other
contracts,
and
you
know
the
way
they
program.
There
is
a
specification
called
reentrancy,
but
but
the
way
they
program,
the
contract
allows
sort
of
unexpected
use
users
to
sort
of
drain
the
the
pool
of
of
the
assets
right
and
that's
because
the
reason
that
could
happen
is
because
the
user
who
deposits
assets
into
a
smart
contract,
basically
let
the
smart
contract
to
to
be
in
custody
of
their
assets.
N
That's
the
property
of
account
model
words
utxo
model,
just
like
bitcoin.
You
have
full
control
of
your
assets
right.
So
this
is,
you
know,
a
concept
we
call
the
variable
assets,
and
so
every
your
assets
is
truly
your
control,
because
only
you
can
unlock
it.
So
I
think
it
would
be
different
for
a
contract,
a
diva
application
to
building
the
xo
model
that
even
a
security
you
know.
C
N
N
You
know
recipes
for
developers
to
build
apps
based
on
this
and
you
know.
Hopefully
we
can
demonstrate
the
superiority
of
utxo
model,
both
in
terms
of
developer
experience
security.
We
also
talk
about
performance
a
little
bit
a
lot
of
parallel
processing
so
that
we
can
highlight
the
the
utxo
model,
so
people
can
see
the
advantage
and
attract
more
researchers
into
this
area.
C
A
H
Great
so
wolfram
research,
I'm
really
excited
to
be
here
and
just
more
about
wolfram
research.
We've
been
around
for
about
30
years
now,
we're
led
by
our
founder
and
ceo
stephen
wolfram.
He
actually
founded
wolfram
research
in
1988,
and
it's
still
pretty
amazing,
because
it's
still
like
directed
by
a
lot
of
his
own
interests,
I
think
steven
has
done
a
bunch
of
stuff
in
the
past
with
cardano,
which
is
also
interesting.
Just
to
give
you
a
little
bit
of
background,
perhaps
about
wolf
and
research.
H
Our
flagship
product
is
mathematica
and
maybe
the
best
way
to
think
about
mathematica
as
a
product
is
that
it
uses
wolfram
language,
which
is
our
programming
language
within
the
mathematica
development
environment,
and
we
use
a
notebook
interface.
We
actually
pioneered
this
interface,
so
it's
really
cool
to
see
that
notebooks
have
really
caught
fire
in
this
past,
I
would
say
like
five
or
so
years,
but
you
can
also
use
wolfram
language
in
ides,
like
visual
studio
and
other
things
that
are
out
there.
H
H
H
We
kind
of
had
this
demand
from
users
from
summer
school
researchers
and
then
also
from
big
fans
of
bitcoin
inside
of
wolfram,
so
right
around,
maybe
2014
and
2015..
So
it's
like
we
got
demand
from
all
of
these
areas
and
over
time
we
decided
to
put
all
of
these
efforts
that
were
kind
of
going
on
within
the
company
into
one
subsidiary,
and
that
became
wolfram,
blockchain
labs
and
wolfram
blockchain
labs
is
really
the
the
entity
that
then
interacts
with
other
companies
in
the
decentralized
or
or
blockchain
space.
H
Like
iohk
and
like
cardano
and
the
cardinal
community,
and
at
wbl,
we
really
have
four
areas
that
we
work
on
with
dlts
one.
We
do
blockchain
integrations.
That's
really
our
core
area,
where
a
lot
of
the
other
things
that
we
do
depend
on
that
integration
with
a
blockchain,
computational
facts
where,
as
you
can
imagine
like
as
we
move
forward
with
this
computable
future
and
with
smart
contracts,
we're
really
harnessing
near
the
the
decade
plus
of
work
that
we've
done
with
wolfram
alpha
to
provide
compensational
facts.
H
There
then
analytics
again
another
strength
of
wolfram,
using
that
with
the
data
that
we've
made
computable
with
blockchain
integrations,
and
here
we
can
use
really
the
power
of
wolfram
language.
As
far
as
like
all
these
machine
learning
tools
and
visualization
tools
and
use
that
on
computable
blockchain
data
and
then
lastly,
an
area-
that's
I
think,
near
and
dear
to
both
wolfram,
and
then
I
think
the
cardano
community,
as
well
as
we
work
on
a
lot
of
education
and
the
education
work,
that
we
do
kind
of
cuts
across
the
three
other
areas
that
I
mentioned.
A
So
john,
you
mentioned
that
we've
known
each
other
for
quite
a
while,
as
companies
stephen
of
course
has
presented
at
a
couple
of
our
summits
he
presented
at
the
shelley
summit
and
back
in
miami
in
2019
as
well,
so
some
of
our
community
may
be
familiar
with
him
from
that.
If
from
nothing
else,
what
are
we
here
to
talk
about
today?
How
has
our
relationship
kind
of
developed
over
those
last
two
or
three
years,
and
what
can
we
share
today?.
H
Yeah
I
mean,
like
you,
mentioned
the
iohk
summit
in
miami
florida,
which
just
seems
like
a
lifetime
ago
in
many
ways,
because
it's
like
life
has
changed.
I
think
so
much
but
it.
But
I
mean
that
was
great
to
have
like
that.
That
meeting
in
person
and
now
like
put
faces
to
names
with
the
increased
communication
that
we've
had.
So
that's
really
good
and
I
think
steven
having
a
chance
to
talk
about
computational
intelligence
and
making
really
computing
ubiquitous.
B
That's
awesome,
john.
I
just
want
to
say
it's
really:
it's
really
an
honor
to
bring
wolfram
in
to
our
show
and
also
to
introduce
them
to
our
community
and
our
audience,
and
there
are
a
lot
of
similarities
between
how
we
approach
innovation.
So
just
for
the
audience's
sake,
please
go
check
out
wolfram,
you
know:
do
you
go
to
their
website
check
out
the
innovation
that
they've
put
out?
It's
it's
very
impressive
and
you'll
get
a
sense
for
why
we
are
so
interested
in
partnering
with
wolfram
as
well
now
cardano's.
B
Next
big
step
is
really
about
the
utility
of
the
platform.
The
blockchain
is
one
thing,
but
it's
really
about
utilizing
it
for
real
world
applications
for
the
decentralized
future
that
you
were.
You
were
just
speaking
about,
and
the
era
is
called
gogan
and
that's
the
smart
contracting
era.
So
one
of
the
critical
infrastructure
pieces
for
us
is
around
oracles
or
integrations
into
into
other
systems.
So
I've
got
a
two-part
question
for
you,
john
on
this.
One
first
is
just
concept
of
oracle's
like:
where
do
you
see
the
best
product
market
fit?
B
H
Right,
so
that's
not
only
as
a
two-part
question:
that's
always
like!
Oh
okay,
but
let's,
let's,
let's
dive
into
it.
I
think
one
is
that
when
you
look
at
wolfram
as
a
company
we've
been
in
this
space
of
computational
intelligence
and
computational
knowledge
for
a
decade
plus
like
before
almost
I
think,
wolf
from
alpha
itself
started
as
like
a
skunk
works
project
in
maybe
2004..
H
We've
been
at
this
for
really
quite
some
time
and
I
think
when
it
comes
to
oracles
and
thinking
about
this
data,
authoritative
content,
kind
of
canonical
information,
that's
out
there,
both
from
a
data
perspective
and
then
algorithmic
perspective
that
we
have
all
this
experience
in
dealing
with
that.
And
so,
as
we
push
for
this
idea
of,
I
think
computational
intelligence.
A
So
john
also
one
of
the
great
strengths,
one
of
the
great
assets
of
course
of
from
over
years,
or
so
that
you've
been
working.
Is
this
curated
database?
Perhaps
you
can
tell
us
just
a
little
bit
more
about
some
of
the
ways
that
we're
going
to
work
together
with
cardano
to
try
and
integrate
some
of
that
intelligence.
Some
of
that
data
into
the
into
the
platform.
H
Yeah,
absolutely
so,
just
to
back
up
a
little
bit,
I
think
one
when
it
comes
to
wolfe
from
alpha.
We've
been
around
again
for
like
quite
some
time
and-
and
we
think
about
this
data
question
in
a
way
of
thinking
about
like
rather
than
scraping
the
web,
and
this
is
where
wolfram
alpha
really
became
this
paradigm
shifting
project
again
like
it's,
it's
it's
hard
for
me
to
think
about
it.
H
In
this
perspective,
it
makes
me
feel
much
older
but
a
decade
ago,
and
actually
five
years
before
that,
because
it
started
in
2004,
but
thinking
about
authoritative
data
sources,
rather
than
thinking
about
scraping
the
web
for
information
that
you
assume
to
be
correct,
and
so
that
put
us
in
this
wonderful
position.
You
know
a
decade
plus
later
to
approach
these
problems,
thinking
about
authoritative
content,
rather
than
just
anything
that
that's
kind
of
out
there,
but
then
going
further
than
that.
H
We've
actually
made
this
data
computable,
so
there's
a
layer
of
metadata
around
the
data.
So
when
it
comes
to
machines,
machines
actually
know
what
the
data
is
about
and
that's
a
very
different
perspective
than
just
raw
pieces
of
data
that
that
are
that
are
out
there.
So
it's
kind
of
like
we've,
made
this
knowledge-based
language
that
machines
are
able
to
interact
in,
and
people
can
read
really
well
as
as
well.
H
So
that's
a
very
different
perspective
and
a
very
different
idea
than
lots
of
other
programming
languages
that
are
out
there
and
lots
of
other
approaches
to
data.
That's
out
there.
So
I
think
going
back
to
aparna's
question
about,
and
I
guess
your
question
as
well
tim
about.
You
know
how
the
the
potential
uses
it
makes
it
so
that
these
things
can
be
integrated
across
the
board
when
it
comes
to
the
smart
contracts
and
providing
computational
facts.
H
So
one
of
the
things
that
really
strikes
me
most
about
cardano
and
charles
is
thinking
about
this
computational
feature
and
thinking
about.
Cardano
is
really
this
global
financial
operating
system,
and
I
think
that's
really
striking
one,
because
there's
so
much
that
can
be
done
when
thinking
about
things
and
technologies
as
being
disruptive-
and
I
think
that's
kind
of
from
like
the
way.
H
We
not
only
have
the
authoritative
computable
data,
but
then
we
also
have
algorithmic
information,
so
both
computable
data
when
it
comes
to
that
financial
information
and
useful
data
there,
but
then
also
algorithmic
content
and
we've
been
doing
that
since
stephen
founded
warform
research
in
in
1988.
As
far
as
like
that
algorithmic
content.
So
I
think
it's
really
interesting
when
it
comes
to
bringing
that
to
the
cardinal
community.
A
A
I
Sure
so
the
role
bondly
is
we're
an
interoperable,
transparent
and
portable
e-commerce
solution.
So
we
really
consider
ourselves
like
the
next
generation
of
how
people
will
be
doing
commerce
with
each
other.
Our
focus
we're
similar
to
paypal,
in
that
we
have
a
tremendous
amount
of
financial
services
that
are
great
for
vendors,
we're
similar
to
stripe,
in
that
we
integrate
very
easily
into
any
ecommerce
platform
that
you
have,
but
ultimately
we're
completely
smart
contract
driven.
So
all
the
benefits
of
being
with
cryptocurrency,
meaning
like
things
like
cross-border
payments.
I
So
that's
what
we're
really
geared
around
the
idea
from
this
and
really
the
inspiration
for
this
comes
from
the
past
15
years
that
I've
been
in
financial
services
and
seeing
that
no
other
platform
really
had
there's
this
scope
and
breadth
to
be
able
to
do
this.
So
it's
only
something
we
can
do
within
the
cryptocurrency
area.
That
allows
us
to
really
make
a
platform
like
this.
A
Now
the
word
defy
is
one:
that's
banded
around
a
little
bit,
I
suppose,
and
anybody
who's
done
a
little
bit
of
research
after
the
announcement
will
have
seen
your
name
attached
to
that
kind
of
movement.
I
suppose,
but
it's
a
lot
more
than
that,
isn't
it?
What
are
some
of
the
real
kind
of
use
cases
that
you're
going
to
be
enabling
here.
I
Yeah
so
I'd
say
like
I'd,
say:
ada
is
one
of
the
original
d5
products
right
so,
like
the
the
term
itself
has
sort
of
like
become
a
popular
catchphrase,
but
I'd
say:
cardano's
been
in
this
business
since
you
guys
launched-
and
I
was
part
of
the
original-
a
part
of
the
original
group
that
you
know
invested.
So
I
would
say
that
right
now
we're
at
a
really
important
inflection
point
with
how
crypto's
working
and
that
it's
really
inspired
by
several
of
the
quote.
I
D5
products
that
came
out
last
year
that
really
sort
of
paved
the
way
of
people
trusting
smart
contracts
more
to
handle
more
financial
functions,
but
this
pivot
will
will
change
even
more.
More
importantly,
next
year
with
you
know,
more
the
gogan
elements
being
released
and
smart
contracts
coming
out
on
cardano,
where
we
can
implement
things
like
you
know,
peer-to-peer
trades,
you
know
new
loan
products,
new
insurance
products,
so
this
will
all
come
to
it,
and
bondly
represents
an
important
part
of
that
story.
A
I
So
yeah,
as
I
mentioned,
you
know,
our
whole
team
is
a
huge
fan
of
the
project.
You
know
from
day
one
really
and
the
ideas
that
are
similar
to
bondly
and
carano
are
really
simple,
so
number
one.
We
we
feel
that
you
know
cardano
and
iohk
has
always
been
focused
on
making
bringing
people
from
unbanked
status,
to
bank
status
right
being
able
to
use
the
blockchain
to
effectively
pull
people
into
the
digital
economy.
I
So
that's
really
why
we're?
You
know
excited
working
with
you
and
yes,
we
are
an
interoperable
platform.
So
our
are
we
we're
going
to
be
featured.
Our
our
toolkit
will
be
featured
on
many
different
chains,
but
we
feel
that
we're
just
here
mostly
for
our
customers.
Ultimately,
so
it's
really
about
the
type
of
value
that
each
layer
one
can
provide.
We
want
to
maximize
that
for
the
customers
that
we
have
on
each
chain.
I
That's
true
yeah,
so
we
we're
more
like
a
value
maximalist
and
a
low
transaction
fee
maximalist.
I
would
say
so.
We
have
a
lot
of
maximalization,
but
it's
definitely
not
on
a
a
later
one.
We're
just
happy
to
have
more
people
join
us
right.
It's
more!
It's
more
about
growing
the
overall
economy,
which
is
another
thing
we
like
about
cardano.
Is
your
approach
to
really
making
blockchain
easier
for
people
and
easier
for
businesses
to
join.
A
I
Yeah,
so
so
during
the
process
of
the
past
year
and
a
half
that
we've
been
working
on
this
in
stealth
mode,
what
we've
done
is
not
only
just
built
the
technology,
but
we
also
built
the
business
so
in
progress
we
have
about
15
different
mous.
Some
signed
or
in
progress
are
being
signed
with
customers
who
are
looking
for
the
capabilities
that
the
bondly
family
of
products
can
provide.
I
So
when
it
comes
to
cardano,
we
definitely
see
room
for
our
first
product,
which
is
called
b,
swap
our
bond
swap
to
be
offered
natively
on
the
chain
to
trade
assets
from
an
otc
pool
standpoint.
So
this
means
that
other
projects,
including
us,
that
join
the
cardano
family,
will
be
able
you'll
be
able
to
buy
and
trade
the
fungible
assets
there.
So
that's
that's.
Definitely
one
aspect,
the
other
one
that,
I
think
is
is
really
a
clear
value.
I
Add
is
using
the
the
new
non-fungible
tokens
that
gogan
will
will
create
and
having
that
as
part
of
our
other
platform
called
be
protect,
so
be
protect,
is
actually
our
e-commerce
platform.
So
we
see
that
many
of
our
enterprise
customers
that
we're
signing
signing
deals
with
may
want
the
opportunity
to
be
able
to
create
assets
on
the
cardano
blockchain
and
then
use
be
protect
or
bond,
protect
as
the
way
to
to
buy
and
sell
those
assets
directly.
I
A
B
Yes,
absolutely
go
again,
you
know
the
protocol
level
stuff
is,
is
wonderful,
so
we're
doing
with
plutus
we're
doing
with
interoperability
with
the
devnets
and
the
pre-production
environments,
but
it's
who's
going
to
use
them
and
how
they're
going
to
use
them.
That
really
matter,
and
that's
where
these
partners
are
helping
us
exponentially
get
to
that
capability.
B
A
And
that's
a
good
link
to
our
next
item.
We
mentioned
this
at
the
outset
of
the
show
we
asked
rod,
alexander
our
media
director,
to
sit
down
with
john
o'connor
who's,
our
director
of
african
operations,
no
announcements
just
yet,
but
I
think
an
exciting
2021
africa
is
very
definitely
on
the
horizon.
So
let's
maybe
go
to
that
clip
now.
E
O
So
when
you're
dealing
with
often
systems
which
are
paper-based,
which
are
often
they've,
been
served
for
waste
and
abuse,
these
are
the
kind
of
systems
right
which
we're
looking
to
replace
with
blockchain
technology,
which
can
offer
some
advantages
there,
and
you
know
we
often
hear
about
this
concept
of
leapfrogging
here,
which
is
you
know
if
you're,
starting
from
a
position
where
you've
got
you
know,
non-digital
deeds,
you've
got
paper-based
systems.
When
you
talk
about
adoption
of
blockchain,
you
know
you're
skipping
over
a
lot
of
the
steps
which
countries
like
you
know.
O
And
absolutely,
but
also
you
know,
the
benefit
is
greater.
So
to
give
the
example,
which
I
reference
there
of
property
deeds
in
the
uk,
I
think
you've
got.
You
know
about
three
thousand
people
who
work
in
a
government
office
which
works
solely
over
land,
titles
and
management
of
land,
titles
and
issuance
of
land
titles,
and
this
system
is
a
legacy
system
right.
It's
based
mostly
on
paper
and
audited
records,
but
the
system
works
very
well.
O
So,
when
you're
trying
to
pitch
within
the
uk
example
that
hey,
we
should
move
to
a
blockchain
based
system,
you
know:
what's
the
incremental
benefit,
it
already
works.
Well,
so,
as
a
result,
I
think
there's
much
less
incentive
for
a
country
like
the
uk
to
move
towards
a
system
than,
for
instance,
in
some
of
the
countries
which
you
know.
I
work
in
where
you
don't
have
that
functional
system
so
you're,
starting
from
a
position
of
we
need
something
and
we
need
something
which
is
great
and
works
to
be
able
to
give
people.
E
The
fact
that
there
are
few
embedded
legacy
infrastructure
systems
in
most
countries
in
sub-saharan
and
africa
is
also
short,
while
it's
an
opportunity
in
terms
of
adoption
of
blockchain
blockchain-based
systems.
Surely
it's
also
a
challenge,
and
there
are
lots
of
day-to-day
challenges
that
you've
had
to
deal
with
in
your
work
and
the
team's
work
in
africa
yeah?
What
are
those
challenges.
O
Yeah,
I
think
that
you
know
when
I
moved
here.
Data
was
incredibly
expensive
and
I
think
you
know
the
comment
about
working
in
the
country
which
doesn't
have
reliable
infant
internet
infrastructure
is
a
fair
one,
but
what's
the
internet?
Reliability
is
not
quite
what
it
is
in
the
uk.
Fundamentally,
the
bigger
issue
is
actually
the
price
of
data.
So
if
you're
trying
to
use
a
build
systems
which
you're
gonna
have
to
have
an
internet
uplink
having
incredibly
expensive
data,
is
a
real
challenge.
O
Over
the
sort
of
three
years
I've
been
here,
data
prices
have,
I
think,
you
know,
fallen
by
sort
of
75
percent,
so
we're
seeing
improvements
on
a
lot
of
the
issues.
But
still
you
know,
you've
got
low.
Smartphone
penetration
you've
got
reliability
issues.
Sometimes
the
internet
goes
out
for
two
weeks,
but
despite
all
of
these
things,
I'm
seeing
incredible
improvements.
You
know
over
the
three
years,
as
they
say,
there's
been
great
strides
in
a
lot
of
these
issues.
E
Okay-
and
there
are
obviously
opportunities
in
africa-
it's
not
unusual
to
see
companies
from
the
more
developed
areas
of
the
world
going
into
africa
and
countries
in
the
developing
world
and
attempting
what
I
tend
to
refer
to
as
technology
push.
They
know
they
have
great
technology
and
they
attempt
to
foster
upon
nations
to
solve
their
to
solve
their
their
problems.
E
O
So
I
think
that's
a
really
good
question.
You
know
I
can
say
that
we're
not
immune
from
this
ourselves.
When
I
moved
here,
I
was
very
interested
in
looking
for
opportunities
around
payments
about
using
cardano
as
a
payment
network
and
then
eventually
using
smart
contracts
to
be
able
to
add
value
there
and
what
I
discovered
is
actually
before
payment.
You
really
need
to
think
about
identity.
O
The
identity
is
the
fundamental
problem
which
needs
to
be
solved
before
you
can
unlock
that
value
of
payments
without
identity
without
kyt
you
lose
a
lot
of
the
value
of
financial
transactions,
and
also
you
have
to
limit
the
size
of
a
financial
transaction.
You
know
you
can't
have
people
sending
across
millions
of
dollars
to
each
other
without
knowing
who
you
are
either
side
of
that
transaction.
O
So
you
know
by
starting
with
identity.
I
think
we
found
that
there's
a
whole
bunch
of
use
cases
in
agriculture
in
education
in
you
know,
titling
that
really
require
a
robust,
cheap
and
scalable
identity
solution,
and
I
think
that
we've
seen
a
lot
of
appetite
actually
for
our
tala
prism
product
based
on
that
sensitivity
and
building
a
product
that
actually
works
for
the
markets
which
which
I'm
in.
O
I
think
the
starting
point
is,
you
know:
we've
spent
two
years
or
two
and
a
bit
years
here,
working
in
output
to
get
to
product
readiness.
You
know
shelley
was
an
important
staging
post.
After
that
we're
going
to
have
pluto's
and
smart
contracts.
We
now
have
an
identity
solution,
and
this
really
wasn't
the
case
if
we're
looking
even
a
year
ago,
so
as
a
company
we're
starting
to
move
towards
having
products
which
are
sort
of
ready
right
now,
rather
than
ready
in
a
year
already
in
two
years.
O
So
we
spent
a
lot
of
time
out
here
and
in
other
countries
in
tanzania
in
uganda,
in
south
africa,
building
up
relationships
and
building
up
credibility.
But
you
know:
not
only
are
we
a
tech
outfit
with
developers,
but
we
have
a
research
driven
scientific
approach
and
we
build
the
type
of
systems
which
are
robust
enough
donation
states
to
use.
F
E
Seen
in
african
countries,
either
at
governmental
level
or
on
the
level
of
people
themselves,
my
experience
is
that
people
in
countries
often
tend
to
be
a
step
ahead
of
governments
in
terms
of
a
desire
for
appetite
and
so
on.
But
what
have
you
seen
on
part
of
both
governments
and
the
people
in
the
countries
where
you
worked
in
africa?.
O
So
I
think,
there's
a
big
thing
happening
across
the
continent,
which
is
the
desire
to
create
a
single
identity
for
each
person.
You've
seen
robust
initiatives
in
kenya
and
south
africa
about
basically
giving
every
single
person
the
equivalent
of
the
social
security
number,
which
then
references
a
digital
id
which
can
then
be
used
for
them
to
be
able
to
do.
You
know,
applications
for
loan
provision
and
voter
registration
and
a
whole
bunch
of
other
services
which
in
many
countries
have
been
done
on
a
very
localized,
very
regional
level.
O
So
you
know
within
the
jp
example.
If
you
were
to
be
within
one
region
of
the
country,
you
might
have
a
different
identity
document
from
if
you
were
in
the
other,
you
might
have
different
standards.
One
might
be
paper
on
cardboard,
the
other
might
be
princeton
plastic,
so
we're
seeing
these
initiatives
now,
where
every
single
person,
every
single
ethiopian,
will
be
issued
with
a
unique
number
which
will
be
associated
with
the
digital
id.
So
this
is
very
common.
O
Now
it's
happening
all
across
the
continent
in
the
desire
to
standardize
normalize
identity
and
then,
of
course,
gain
the
benefits
that
flow
through.
That,
in
terms
of
a
lot
of
the
financial
services
that
I
mentioned
in
terms
of
people,
you
know
the
thing
which
a
lot
of
people
don't
recognize
is
you
know
africa
is
the
home
of
mobile
money.
Ethiopia
is
maybe
a
little
bit
later
towards
that
trend,
but
and
pesa,
which
was
started
in
kenya.
O
80
of
all
transactions
within
the
kenyan
economy
run
through
a
mobile
money
solution
when
you're
talking
about
digital
wallets,
there's
more
digital
wallets
in
the
african
continent
than
there
are
in
any
others.
So
you've
got
huge
demands
here
for
innovative
technologies
which
solve
basic
problems
in
payment
and
identity,
both
from
a
government
and
also
on
a
on
a
personal
level
and.
E
O
Yeah
absolutely
so
you
know
the
atari
solution
is
one
I've
discussed
at
length
with
many
stakeholders
here
in
ethiopia,
both
government
and
private
sector.
You
know
we're
in
late
days,
late
stage,
discussions
with
you
know
three
different
parties,
all
four
multi-million
user
deals
on
the
otala
framework,
so
the
appetite
for
this
product,
I
would
say,
is
incredibly
strong
and
going
forward
into
next
year.
You
know
I'm
hoping
that
we
can
onboard
millions,
if
not
more,
of
users
towards
this
framework.
E
O
Yeah,
I
think
this
is
this
is
an
interesting
one.
So,
as
I
say,
I
knew
payments
was
a
huge
thing
on
the
continent.
I
knew
how
quickly
mobile
money
had
penetrated
the
kenyan
market,
so
when,
of
course
I
moved
here,
I
was,
I
was
pretty
confident
that
we'd
see
traction
on
those
payments
products
and,
of
course,
you
get
into
the
complexities
and
the
reality
of
the
country
you're.
In
so
on.
A
regulatory
perspective,
payment
isn't
really
an
attractive
sector
for
us
here.
O
It's
reserved
for
local
companies
in
order
to
apply
for
the
license.
There's
a
number
of
restrictions-
and
these
are
these
are
realities
which
not
just
us,
but
many
companies
deal
with
you've
got
safaricom
trying
to
enter
the
market
for
a
new
telco
license
there
and
they're
running
to
exactly
the
same
challenges.
O
You
know
we
want
to
do
telco,
but
we
know
the
values
in
payments,
but
we're
not
being
allowed
to
do
payments
so
you've
got
to
navigate
these
complexities
and
frankly,
learn
a
lot
about
the
regulatory
side
and
also
the
the
cultural
side
as
well
before
you
can
really
come
up
with
appropriate
products.
So
yeah
I've
been
I've
been
maybe
a
little
surprised
by
some
of
the
the
products
and
the
demand
that
I
see.
But
you
know
that's
also
the
benefit
of
setting
up
a
team
here
and
living
here
is
that
you
can.
O
E
O
So
I
think
the
first
thing
to
say
is
that
it
really
is
not
a
short
road.
You
know
we're
starting
off
with
building
a
very
fundamental
network
infrastructure
which
allows
a
set
of
capabilities,
but
smart
contracts
alone
are
not
enough
to
build
a
loan
platform
to
offer
farmers
credit
in
europe
or
in
kenya.
So
it's
the
building
block
that
we
need.
We
need
a
smart
contract,
scripting
language.
We
need
a
way
to
be
able
to
transfer
value,
but
still
you've
got
to
work
to
build
even
some
of
the
boring
stuff.
O
So
regulatory
reporting
tools
to
be
able
to
have
licenses
within
the
country
and
connecting
up
capital
from
you
know
the
us
or
the
uk
towards
these
markets.
There's
a
whole
bunch
of
stuff
which
isn't
super
exciting,
isn't
super
interesting,
but
you
need
to
do
to
actually
create
the
value
that
we
discuss.
O
So
I
think
that
when
we
talk
about
the
timeline
you
know
for
me
and
for
us,
I
think
that
our
real
focus
next
year
should
be
on
the
scaling
usage
of
the
identity
product
working
on
some
real
insignificant
pilots
to
start
to
move
into
the
financial
inclusion,
space
and
loan
provision
and
insurance
provision
and
then
taking
those
lessons
within
maybe
a
particular
country
or
two
and
then
scaling
that
out
into
a
product
which
can
be
used
in
more
countries.
So
it's
a
multi-year
roadmap,
but
you
know
that's:
okay.
O
I
think
that
there's
a
lot
of
value
in
these
technologies
and
if
you
can
get
it
right,
you
know
if
you
can
connect
up
capital
more
fluidly
across
the
world
and
enable
loan
and
insurance
provision
at
lower
cost
and
more
efficiently.
You
know
these
are
trillion
dollar
markets,
so
I
don't
think
you
need
to
do
it
all
in
a
year,
but
you
need
to
be
on
the
right
path.
E
That's
great
john
john,
listen!
It's
been
great
talking
to
you
and
getting
a
real
insight
into
the
day-to-day
realities
and
challenges
and
opportunities
in
ethiopia
and
elsewhere
across
the
african
continent
and
from
what
you
say.
It
sounds
as
if
you'll
be
joining
the
product
show
again
in
the
near
future.
Hopefully
with
news
of
some
product
adoption.
A
A
It's
been
a
difficult
year
for
many
people
and
at
times
a
difficult
year
for
for
us
as
well,
but
I
think
really
the
the
strength
of
the
project,
the
strength
of
the
community
and
the
momentum,
I
think,
has
really
carried
many
of
us
through
what
has
been
that
difficult
yeah,
but
maybe
just
to
quickly.
Ask
you
upon.
What's
been
your
highlight
of
2020.
B
Wow,
I've
got
quite
a
few,
but
I'm
just
gonna
probably
go
to
one
the
team.
You
know
we
have
an
incredible
team
of
people
that
have
seen
this
project
from
research
and
heavy
heavy
engineering
to
actually
productizing
and
delivering
so
being
able
to
get
that
product
market
fit
and
putting
it
out
there.
That's
that's
a
really
proud
moment
for
for
any
blockchain
project,
and
I
think
we've
been
doing
a
spectacular
job
at
that
adoption.
Wise
I'll,
just
take
talk
to
one
more
adoption-wise.
This
is
the
time
you
know.
B
A
A
The
health
and
happiness
of
the
stakeholder
community
is
really
what
drives
network
success
here.
So
really
a
massive
shout
out
to
everybody.
Who's
been
involved
in
that
process,
but,
of
course,
also
the
wider
community.
It's
been
fantastic,
seeing
some
of
the
individual
stories
of
some
of
those
stake,
pool
operators
over
the
course
of
the
year,
seeing
them
start
with
a
handful
of
twitter
followers
and
building
their
own
communities
around
their
pools.
For
example,
that's
been
hugely
fascinating
and
and
great
to
see,
but
of
course
things
are
going
to
get
even
better
next
year.
A
As
you
say,
it's
about
adoption
we'll
have
whole
new
people
coming
into
our
community,
we'll
have
a
brand
new
developer
community
coming
in
from
other
blockchains
and
also
from
kind
of
the
wider,
the
wider
development
world.
So
we've
only
just
started
boy.
Oh
boy,
it's
been
a
ride,
but
I
do
need
a
holiday
and
I
need
to
take
this
hat
off
very
very
soon.
So,
let's
maybe
just
close
the
show
off
now
now
you've
had
our
reflections
here.
A
Aparna
and
I
are
two
of
the
more
public
faces
of
the
project,
but
there's
so
many
people
behind
the
scenes.
Who've
been
working
so
hard
as
well
to
bring
this
all
out
in
2020.,
so
we've
actually
created
a
little
bit
of
a
film
which
will
be
premiering
over
the
holiday
period,
so
follow
our
social
channels
for
that
dom
who's.
Behind
the
scenes
helping
us
run.
The
show
today
has
created
a
nice
little
video
featuring
some
of
the
voices
and
some
of
the
thoughts
looking
back
at
2020
looking
forwards
at
2021.