IPFS Helia (IPFS JS) Demo Days, 7 Feb 2023

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From YouTube: Helia IPFS JS - Demo Day 1

Description

The first demo of Helia, a new IPFS implementation written in JS.

Source code for Helia: https://github.com/ipfs/helia
More on Helia: https://blog.ipfs.tech/state-of-ipfs-in-js/
Sign up for future sessions: https://lu.ma/helia

A

Elliot: cool. all right. welcome everyone to the first helia demo, day.

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Elliot: and I will turn it over to alex.

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B

Alex: yeah., so I will get started. so hello and welcome to the hailio demo day.

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We're gonna go through alex:, where we are., we want to be. and and yeah, it's gonna be awesome.. It's gonna be some demos. hopefully.. It's not gonna work.

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Awesome. alex: so to introduce myself,, I'm alex. for cds. I making brain on the internet.

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Alex: I maintain just the pdp. and and.

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Alex:, taking on the new alex: process, implementation, called he.

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Alex:, so we can just alex: have a little about a section where we kind of talk about like kind of the design goals,, and you know what we want to.. We want to differentiate from the other.

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Alex: js. ip., addresses.

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alex: there'll be some demos in this and q. and a at the end. it's going to go off now,. So it's going to be quite quick to go as well.

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Alex:, so what is it? so he here is a replacement for joe.. So if you fast, that's the end goal,, we want it to be smaller, more lightweight,, more.

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Alex: or better. just basically apply the learnings of of the last,. However long it's been.

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Alex: 5 years or so of of.

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Alex: and come up with something that's kind of web native.

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Alex: ergonomic, observable, and basically try and scratch all the edges that people have had those nasty which is going to talk to for.

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Alex: to annoy you about using.

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Alex:, you want to be faster, and we want to.. We want people to be able to get up to speed quickly.

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Alex: and be able to, you know, get on with solving the interesting problems that they have.

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Alex:, not the not the boring problem.

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Alex:, so what is it? so alex:? The idea behind it? Is.

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Alex:, let's try not to do too much. one of the things about.

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Alex:, the json of us api's. it stands is it's kind of a kitchen sync kind of cattle.. Everything is in there.

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Alex:, which makes it really hard to do things like expose bits over the network.

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Alex: and just generally do anything., there's quite a lot to get your head around.

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Alex: before you can actually do anything, useful.

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alex:, which is,, which is definitely a problem., so so the idea is,, you have a very,, very simple., api.

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Alex:, so the way I'm going out at the moment is this is just a block. Store.

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Which is a an interface that you can use to put and get blocks.

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Alex: and it's back by bitswap.! So if it's not in your local bits,, what if it's not in your local blocks, or then it will go to the network and try to.

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Alex: that., this block that you're off to,, and so that would involve a whole bunch of different strategies.

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Alex:, so that's what goes into.

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alex:, yeah, it'll. Ask you your directly connected peers if they have the blocks.

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Alex: or you know, it'll do a dhc query to try and find providers to the block. style, those providers and then retrieve them.

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Alex:, that's the block store.. So there's the data store,, which is how you store.

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Alex: non-block data., so that's kind of application-specific stuff., so like ips records and dst provider, records, and.

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Alex:, you know and j. surface uses to all the current state as the mfs and that kind of thing.

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Alex:, so the day story is required to enable these more advanced kind of network protocols.

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Alex: and pinning., so really we want pinning so that we can do garbage collection because you don't want to have.

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Alex: blocks hanging around forever,, just eating storage forever., so we need some way of.

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Alex: of removing the blocks that are in use,, and so we need some way of indicating which blocks are in use.. So we need to be able to pin that.

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Alex: and I'm the pizza to. alex:, so one of the one of the things about that,, you know., you can see that.

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Alex: lip. he was extracted from ipfs in the a whole bunch of the api's from the peter p. are duplicated in ipf.

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Alex: which,, you know, for obvious reasons, is not the most efficient way of doing things that you know, in terms of maintenance and developer time.

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Alex:, so it will expose the loop to the keynote itself.

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Alex: this is like historically,. This has been difficult, because a lot of the api's and the p. are bi-directional.

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Alex: they have, you know, full duplex in both directions,, which means that you can be sending and receiving data at the same time. and the rpc. mechanism. That's chosen to do that was http.

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Alex:, which is, you can't actually do that with the fetch api.

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Alex: so it's been impossible to kind of really.

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Alex: like. give remote users the full power of the pp node without running it. Yourself.

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Alex:, but with this api like., we can do this because.

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Alex:, we're not tied to having. http is the transport for our pc.

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Alex:, so we can expose the full loop to p mode on the helium node.

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Alex:, which then means that we don't need to do things. Like.

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alex: replicate the pubs up api, for example, and replicate the dht. api.. You can just use the p to p,, which is good because it removes a bit of the magic.

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Alex: and it's spaces, people to kind of the low, level workings of itself.

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Alex: and people can learn more about how these things are put. Together.

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Alex: yeah., so I talked about the block., so alex: yeah, pen and garbage collection,, the peter p. you., so we're going to expose.. So it's gonna be amazing.. We're running remote, practical streams over our pc. I'm:, very excited.

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Alex: yeah. so alex: these are the goals., so we want it to be lightweight and easy to use., but we want. We want to be able to compose.

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Alex: the tools out of like simple primitives and build like,, give people simple tools to work with, and that then build complicated things rather than start with a complicated thing and expecting people to understand it and be able to use it. well.

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Alex: so a quick demo.

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Alex:, so I'm going to just share.

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Alex: okay,, so here we go.

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Alex:, so this is alex: alien. alex:. I hope this is big enough. Until we can see it.

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Alex:, so I've just set up a quick block store and a quick data store.. So this is just memory. Data, stores and memory blocks to be held in memory., there's no nothing's being on the file system.

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Alex: create a pizza p. notes.. This is all just standard.

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Alex: from the psp., so alex: we've got. we're listening to the tcp. address:. We have a tcp. transport.. We have noise for connection encryption. We have yamx, for as a as a streaml.

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Alex: I've just turned off alex: not, and relay because I'm on a very flaky network.

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Alex:, I'm also double not in..

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Alex:, I can't use them, not at the moment, anyways.

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Alex:, so what I'm going to do is I'm going to.

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Alex: I'm. I'm going to create a helium.

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Alex: pass on the p. to p. I pass in the block store. I pass in the datas law.

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Alex: and then I just wait here in.

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Alex:, so info is alex: under like the id command.

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Alex: take a minute. there, we go!

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alex:, it started and made.

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alex: and it's printed out all the info, and you see I've got an agent version of helia.

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Alex: I'm listening on these multi others. alex: right?.

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Alex:, nothing useful has happened so far,, though., alex: and you'll notice that alex: the and the api that I talked about.. It was a block stores and tastes, stores and l. p. to p., but there is no file system, operations.

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Alex:, how can I actually fast with my file system operations that doesn't make any sense.

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Alex: wow! alex: because they're not going to be part of the.

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Alex: the idea here- is. alex:, instead of having alex: unix fs, be the blessed file system, api.

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Alex: to allow people to come up with their own file system, api's.

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Alex: so we spent ages trying to get unix to be 2 out of the tool.. We never quite made it.

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Alex:, meanwhile, the fishing lot came along and invented, when a first, which actually solves a lot of the problems that we wanted to solve. With, you know. sp:, 2.,.

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Alex:, so it would be great to be able to empower people to do that kind of thing.

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Alex: but not feel like,, you know., so this is like this blessed version of the file system, that that we will only have a support that we're somehow hostile to,. You know, innovation from third parties, because we absolutely are not.

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Alex:, we really want to see people building amazing stuff on top of the stack.. I think it harms it to to.

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Alex: make it seem as if there's one good way of doing things,, and then everything has a second.

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Alex: the long way away, saying,, you have to import a different module. If you want to do an excess operation.

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Alex:, so this is heedia unix effects., so I use that right. Well.

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Alex: you just associate it.

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Alex: unix the first and pass in the helium note.. So now.

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Alex:, the the unix,, the first module has access to a network block store data, store, lp:, all that stuff.

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Alex:, so we can alex: create,, so we can just import something simply.

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Alex:, don't don't get too hung up on the api.

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Alex:, it's very much a work in progress.

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Alex: there we go,, so I've got the id outfit alex: info output, and then I've got the cid of this thing that I've added.

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Alex: oh, fun!.

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Alex:, it works.

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Alex: so alex: I from that you can see some of the.

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Alex: some of the full process behind this., so we wanna.

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Alex: I just to kind of to recap.. We want to have heia, be a really simple.

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Alex: very bad bones: alex: gateway to doing networks, operations.

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Alex: with blocks.

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Alex: and then you can build other things on top of that., so you're gonna build the unix fs layer, out.

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Alex: and I would love someone to build the winfs layer, out.

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Alex: kind of taking the same same approach where you just take the helium node, and then you can have these operations, because, you know,, I was thinking like,. Could we like have some kind of abstract interface of all file system, operations.

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Alex: and then have these different things implemented and whatever., and the answer is obviously, no, no,, you can't,, because then you can't actually innovate,, because the only.

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Alex: the only operations you'll be able to support the ones in the interface.

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Alex:, so you need to be able to free people to to have whatever alex: api they want to have for their own file system.

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alex:, I mean, any way to do that is to remove any kind of assumption of what it's going to be like, and just give them like what we.. What we do know is that they're going to be blocks, involved, and they're going to be transferred across the network, and they're, going to be c. ids so operate on that level, and that everyone else kind of.

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Alex: do the right thing after that.

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Elliot: cool yeah, that that sounds great, very composable,, very flexible.

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Elliot: alex., I'm wondering if you could reiterate you kind of touched on this already,, but we re reiterate a little bit on how building helia compares with. if we were to try to do a huge refactor of gs, ipfs.. I've kind of heard couple of folks wondering like.

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Elliot: I, you know,, could just ipfs be refactored to try to accomplish the same goals.

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Alex:, can we say it's a question for the q. a. please?.

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Elliot: sure. yeah, we'll do that.

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Alex: thank you., so what else? so observability?, so one of the things that we hear repeatedly, is that it's really hard to know. What's going on.

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Alex: with, you know, behind the scenes in the so one of the.

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Alex: one of the one of the like advice is a massively complicated system with lots of moving parts.

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Alex: and it's completely understandable that it's it's very hard to to diagnose problems.

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Alex: and I think we do a bad job of how to expose that kind of stuff.

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Alex: I alex: I was going to do just another quick demo of just.

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A a very simple.

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Alex: very simple thing., so this is gonna, be on the command line.. I have a 1 million windows, open.

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Alex: is the console.

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Alex:, so all right.

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Alex:, so I'm in alex: there we go,, so I can stop.

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Alex:, we'll start a heated demon.

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Alex: actually., so I'm going to do first., I'm going to remove.

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I'm going to remove the alex: to use a dot, a directory,, so you would it nicest out there.

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Alex:, it's no longer in dot, helia or or j.

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Alex:, it's actually going to try and look up the native place for storing up location, specific files on the operating system, which, on my mac,, have mostly library in my home, directory, anyway, so..

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Alex: and we can start.

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Alex: no,, I didn't get to share another one.

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To take my wife.

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Alex:, so I can do because healia is, is the command.

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Alex: and because all these things are separate,, so there's a there's, a separate unix of us.

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Alex:, so the he,, a binary itself, doesn't shit with the inx ofs support,. You have to install a separate one.. So if you wanted to units the best operations.

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Alex: the same way that you install a an ipns one to the ipns operations.

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Alex:, so you're only going to get things that you want, which makes you less vulnerable to supply chain attacks and and all this kind of thing.

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Alex: anyway,, so I can do it, you know. so first add package to jason.

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Alex: jason., so there we go.. So it's for a a.

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Alex:, it's been about a a did.

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Alex:, I can do things like, I can stop the cid,, and so they will tell me what.

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Alex: they'll tell me some some information about about the did. So.

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Alex:, it's not observable just yet.

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Alex: already. explain.

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Alex: you see, now it's it's, it's a little f from block store.. So this is.

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Alex: again, like don't get folks on the api., the fact is that we can now get some information out of.

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What's going on, so alex:, it's looking for the block, and it's looked in the block store, and it's in the block store,. So it's going to fetch the block from the block.. So at the moment this is a very simple kind of like.. It's just kind of a piece of concept.

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Alex: or just like events that you get.

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Alex:, where she can then like, print out or create an ui for it, or,. You know, give the users and feedback.

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Alex:, so if I go back to alex:, if I so, if I instead do a different cod., so I'm just gonna change the last character of the c. id. So I'm not gonna. Have this block anymore.

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Alex: and we can see what happens when I try that, so.

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Alex:, it's not in the box or so it should affect it from pittsburgh.

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Alex: out of it to find providers.

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alex: sorry, the fashion brooks, are always added to the want. this,, and it's also on a dht. query to find providers. now I'll see if on to them.

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Alex: not gonna work. alex:, because I just change the last character.. But if I do.

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Alex: so,, that's the that's the very famous empty directory, c. id. So it's somebody on the network should have this did.

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Alex: and then saying so, there we go.

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alex:, so alex:, it's gone to fashion and pick, swap alex: it's it's done. A dhc. create to find providers. it's added to the on this,, and then it's actually. The block has come in from the on. there's actually 2 peers that have supplied this block. To me.

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Alex: to my, to the to the connected node., so this has gone over our pc. to the running versus running the background.

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Alex: and it's given me some feedback on what he's going.

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Alex:, hopefully like. hopefully,. I want to build this out a bit more, because quite as you, you want to be,, you want to pay more information., so you want to know. What's going on? the dht. query, like,? What peers have you connected to like?? Who have they directed to you?? You to,, you know,, did the query? Terminate successfully? has a timed out, etc., etc., but, like adding this in.

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Alex: will require threading like progress event, listeners throughout the entire step.

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Alex:, so I just kind of I just I'm at the desktop level to kind of show the kind of observability that that we can get that we don't have at the moment.

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Alex:, that's the demo.

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And then what's what's next. so.

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Alex:, these are the kind of things that we need. Some help with.

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Alex: so there's a alex:. I put a a long issue on the helium repo about pinning.

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Kind of the challenges that we have with the previous pending implementations, and how.

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Alex:, how we want to change them,, make them better.

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Alex:, multiple and alex:, and that kind of thing,, because there, you know, there there are people crying out for better pending performance, mostly. gc:. Like I could. by js,, I have a switch to use the data still for all the pinning metadata, and it is way faster than it was previously..

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Alex: but garbage collection never got the same treatment., so you still have to do an awful lot of dag operations to do garbage collection.. So you know. so some thoughts on that and the he repo about how to make that faster.

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Alex: also. yeah., so all the file system says you saw your next to the same thing.

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Alex: when,, if there should be its own thing, and then anything else like any other experimental file systems that people want to try and.

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Alex: use. alex: yeah,, I can ask., so we need an ip address implementation, which will mostly involve ripping the guts out of the js. I,, professor on the fixing, the bugs in it.

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Alex: but again,, it should be a a separate thing that you can then, like, chain.

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Alex:, the output of things together., that's it to resolve, and I can, as name a published, might be an estimate.

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Alex: yeah, now. q. and a.

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Alex: and why don't? we just well,, I mean.

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Alex: good question., it's alex:, quite a large beast.

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alex: and there's a lot of.

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Alex:, what we like. ideally,, you know,, you want to.! You want to have like smaller building blocks.

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Alex: and a lot of people do interesting things to them.

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alex:. So then it's a question of what alex:? What features do you keep, and what features do you not keep.

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Alex: like., I think,, if you,, if you distill everything down to just.

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Alex:, the network,, the block store,, the data store and the p. to p.. Then you've got like this.

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Alex:, the very minimal set of features that you need to to actually build a useful networks. Application.

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Daniel norman: go ahead with the question.

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alex: sure. alex: okay, sure. well,, it's actually daniel norman:, 3. I'll start with the quickest, easiest one unix of us when you were showing that in the cli was that actually connecting to the damon just wanted to make sure.

D

Daniel norman: okay,, because usually you need to basically inject it., some kind of like kelly, instance, right?. That's the idea that you've, like inverted the control.

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Daniel norman: okay, cool. exactly., so all the all the units for separations run on the client.

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Alex: and then it's just alex:, I basically treat him. he as a remote install.

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Daniel norman: I see. and I'm curious., could you use like,, maybe reiterate or elaborate a bit on the differences between the block store and the data store, and and how that might like.

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Daniel norman: these,, using like what what implications to these differences, also have for running in the browser.

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Alex:, so what's the the differences. so they're, both tools, like both the key value, stores.

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Alex:, the differences., the block store, you put c ids in, and you get you and a rays out.

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Alex:, the data store, you put keys, in.

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alex:, which is a it's just, a string fundamentally,, and then you get you and a raise out.

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Alex: the difference,, as far as he is concerned,, is that the block stores, network.

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Alex:, so if the, if the key isn't there for the block store,, it will go to the network and try and fetch the block. Store.

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Alex: but the key has to be a cid alex: for the data. still,. The key is an arbitrary string which you can use to like, do any application, specific data,, but it's not network.. So it's just for like config and.

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Alex: storage,, like a general purpose.

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Daniel norman: okay,, gotcha. and finally,. What does it broadly look like for the web? Like?? Would.

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Daniel norman: would this also be able to run in a web browser?.

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Alex: yeah. obviously, yeah, of course.

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Alex: yeah, it's so. so., so using the same, it was before like,. It still has the same challenges, like from the networking level.. It has the same challenges like it's still impossible to dial tcp: listeners from the browser.

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Alex: but that, like the solutions to those problems, they're gonna, come at the lip p to p. Level, which, like conceptually, I think, is, is a lower level concern than than helia and and kind of the file system.. Api is like.. Here is an application built on top of.

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Alex: no piece of pay. alex: and the p. is going to solve the networking. Part. healer is going to solve the you like the application.

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Alex: primitive kind of paul.

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Daniel norman: thank you.

E

Steve loeppky: thanks a lot, alex, for showing.. I'm curious. If there's a.

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Steve loeppky: kind of killer example or demo, that in future you hope to be able to show with with helia.

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Steve loeppky:, like functionality that can now be built on top.

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Steve loeppky: you mean that wasn't impressive.. I wasn't trying to say what you you you're doing great job, showing what's underneath the covers. but like. Are there.

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You steve loeppky: is it?. Is it a chat app?? Is it something like steve loeppky: that that you're excited for people to be able to do, or to maybe even be able to showcase what.

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Alex:, you said it., then, to do list., I'm looking forward to the to do. This. demo.

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Alex: yeah,, I don't know, like I think.

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Alex: it's. alex: thanks to me. alex:, you know alex: the people finding it easy to pick it up and run with it.

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Alex:, like I think I was going to be the the acet.

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In terms of like applications,, like specific applications.,.

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Alex: I mean it's whatever you would build it like. it has,. I think.

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Steve loeppky:, and so I guess to that end, steve loeppky:, I I assume, converting over the current js. ips examples.

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Steve loeppky: would be a a good way to show that that was the the things are working with helia, and also to show it. being used in more ways..

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Alex: is that is that a fair statement?, okay,, absolutely., yeah,, absolutely., and and also examples of how to do things like one of the most useful things about all the existing microfs examples. There, and people are like. I can't get it to work with x, bundler, or you know, why.

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Alex:, you know application, server, or whatever.

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alex: and you're like. oh,. Here's the example of being paste.

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Alex:, I'm off you go. alex:, like the good news, is that most of the.

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Alex: things that are applicable to in that sense will be applicable to heelia as well.

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Alex: because it's still using it's still using esm., you know it's all., it's all very similar on on that there.

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Alex:, I think the big winner of all of this is not having to comprehend.

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Alex: the api to alex: become productive.. That's why I hope anyone.

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Steve loeppky:, cool., okay, and thanks. I was like last thing.. So is there a potential call to arms for people to start.

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Steve loeppky: copying or converting the existing examples to helia.

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Alex: yeah., so there's a pr. open at the moment against helio,, which is the initial implementation.

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Alex: because alex: kind of alex: yeah,, it's my to the initial implementation,. As you know, it's, it's it's it's.

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Alex: the block, store and stuff, and once that's merged in,. Then it becomes a lot more.

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Alex: stable,, and so once once that's merged., so it's got the same. The same gated release set up as l. p. to p. and.

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Alex: there'll be a next. the tag published as soon as that.

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Alex: that gets me in. and so yeah, people can jump on.

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Alex: trying to integrate with things that way as well.

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Alex:, like alex:, I wanna, I want to release it.

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alex:. They also in q. 2.

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Alex: so that might mean,, I don't know, like merging that pr. on stage.

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Alex:, I'm hoping it was alex: so., you know, alex: people can use the next tag until then, and then we can like, let the api settle properly, and that so I'm hoping.

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Alex:, like the nice thing, as well as it,, because the api,, because he, the v one,, will just be the block store,. The data store, pinning and.

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Alex: and the p twop, and those,, if you guys, are going to change.

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alex:, so we can at least be one of that and then have like you. next.. The first get to be 27, like, really quick., but yeah, still be one..

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Any other question.

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Alex: oh, there was one oscar. yeah.. I saw a message from familiar to saying,. What's the 4 things that people can do right now to help out.

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Alex:, so I think, like wish listing things like what was the stuff you hate?.

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Alex:, what are the things you just like,? What are the things you like?? You know.? What.

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Alex:, what would you like to see like?? This is kind of what I've.

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Alex: well,. I would like to see how the alex: and next generation I your first note.

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Alex:, like things we can't fix in this or things like that., the network connectivity like that will come. That will come through the p. to p.

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Alex:, but in terms of like high level apis,- and you know, to kind of like enable experimentation and, and that kind of thing like well feel free to dm me on whatever platform.

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Alex:, if you don't want to look at an issue or anything.

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alex: and I will collate an anonymized. and so for.

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Alex: also reviews like people can poke around the.

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Alex:, the pr. that's open right now that will be handy like it's there's a lot there.

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Alex:, so I'm not expecting anyone to like. have to go through the whole thing. but like, if you know just a few files here and there like just pick.. So it's a mon, a repo. So like pick one of the packages., if you wanted to. just look at the code in that.

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Alex:, it's something like don't feel that you have to review everything.

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Steve loeppky:, great thanks. and so,. If someone is fine to make public their their wish list,, they should just open an issue in the helia repo.

B

Yeah. yeah,, I think so.

E

Steve loeppky: a. and and when do you think we will be able to tell? j. ip. users that we're not involved in maintaining. and we're putting all of our effort into helium..

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Alex:, I think when we have the mix of us layer.

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Alex: like when I see all the the operations that you can do with in terms of unix.

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Alex:, you know. add cap,, not so much. get because get is basically a tarball.

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Alex:, like the get., come on. alex:, yeah, she's, the obviously api returns,, which she then.

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Alex: the things like adding directories to existing dags. and you know,, adding files to tags, and that kind of stuff,, like all those things that people use. the object. Api for.

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Should be alex: like a high level of that., looks like a file system. api:, so there should be like it's basically like the mfs.

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Alex: yeah, the way that you can just create a directory in the nfls.. But, like you just the time like a cid of the update in the room and the updated that.

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Alex: and that kind of thing like there's no need to alex: keep the cid hanging around as you do with them the first.. But of course you could have your own implementation right.. You just stick the cid in the day.. It's still under the main key.

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Alex: and then you have your mfs.

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alex:, but like, yeah,, that kind of thing.. So when, when there's more parity with existing,, I.

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Alex: like., I I think there there shouldn't be any operation, that's impossible, with.. He.

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Alex:, like everything that j., you should be able to do with.. He here as well.

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Alex:, like that, like ideally,, there would just only be one way to do it, instead of like 7 ways to do it.

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Alex: all right, and no more questions., then I will.

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You all this time of close.

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Alex: no,, thank you for coming everyone.. There will be another one of these in in a few weeks. Time. keep an eye out for meeting. invite.

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Alex: so yeah, I'm available to me.. Whenever you want to talk about anything there's, concerns, groups and dreams. thank you. yeah,. The thanks. I was. and I also say, like, if,, as others get involved, we'd love to build you a space for others to be able to show off.

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Steve loeppky: their work around helia,, either on top of it or in on the internal.. So this isn't intended. obviously, alex will keep plugging way, here,, which is fantastic., but this isn't intended to be an alex-only demo.. But thank you for spearheading it, alex.

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Alex potsides: absolutely., I want to see the cool stuff people build.. That makes me the most excited.. I definitely want to see it.