►
Description
A roundtable discussion with creators building ownable metaverses. Hosted by Matt Hoerl from the Mona.
A
B
Hi
everyone,
I'm,
frictillions
and
I've,
been
building
pretty
much
I
started
metaverse
building
about
a
year
ago,
during
the
first
moment
build-a-thon,
and
that
Adventure
has
been
has
made
me
and
a
lover
of
World
building
and
obviously
the
community
as
well.
These
two
here
have
influenced
me
a
hell
of
a
lot
and
it's
just
been
an
adventure
of
the
whole
process.
I
just
did
a
little
presentation
recently,
all
about
it
called
the
Builder's
Journey.
B
C
C
I
got
in
Matt
sent
me
an
email
about
a
year
ago,
inviting
me
to
join
the
build-a-thon
file
coin
forum,
build-a-thon,
which
I
got
involved
in
and
ended
up
winning
and
have
since
just
kept
building
worlds
with
Mona
and
yeah.
That's
that's
my
background.
In
building,
3D
I
have
more
of
a
background
in
level
design
than
environment
building.
So
that's
a
bit
more
about
the
kind
of
the
journey
through
the
3D
space.
C
D
I
was
one
of
the
few
cases
where
the
algorithm
actually
did
me.
A
favor
and
Mona's
competition
came
up
and
I
was
going
through
a
phase
of
sort
of
moving
through
trying
to
finish
projects
rather
than
just
learn
constantly
so
I
decided
to
jump
in
I
usually
come
from
a
character
background,
so
I've
done
a
lot
of
characters
in
my
time
and
a
lot
of
the
techniques
there,
with
optimizing
characters
to
work
in
games
being
from
20
years
years
ago,
to
now
kind
of
carried
across
with
designing
spaces.
A
Well,
so
glad
you're
here
together
on
stage
here
and
you
know
Matt
you
mentioned
some-
you
know
kind
of
technical
challenges
as
it
relates
to
kind
of
building
in
these
worlds.
So
we'd
love
to
kind
of
start
with
you
and
kind
of
go
down
on.
You
know
what
are
some
of
those
the
biggest
challenges
you're
facing
as
you're.
You
know,
building
these
these
worlds
and
what
do
you
think
for
those
who
are
maybe
less
experienced
Builders?
D
It's
it's
an
interesting
space
because,
like
I
always
get
questions
from
other
builders
saying
how
do
I
do
this,
but
this
is
a
thousand
questions
to
answer
and
especially
in
any
any
platform
that
you're
building
for
VR
web
browser,
client-based
Cloud.
Everyone
has
a
different
answer
to
that
question.
D
At
the
end,
so
designing
to
that,
with
the
knowledge
that
you
have
and
then
learning
the
things
to
get
you
to
the
goal
that
you
want
is
kind
of
the
trick,
but
also
the
process
and
a
lot
of
it
does
include
the
feels
that
come
along
with
it.
But
the
rewards
equally,
if
not
more
rewarding
in
the
end
result
when
it
actually
works.
So
it's
really
good
when
you
get
that
sort
of
40
frames
a
second
at
a
really
nice
space.
C
Yeah
so
I
guess
what
you
said,
then
that
was
really
interesting
about
finding
the
balance
between
kind
of
performance
and
the
the
quality
of
the
space.
So
for
me,
I
find
that
very
difficult
to
to
like
get
that
balance
right,
especially
coming
from
a
background
where
you
know
so
working
on
video
games
where
you've
got
like
very
high
budgets
for
things.
You're
building
like
custom
applications,
you're
not
building
for
a
browser,
I
think
that
makes
it
makes
a
difference.
C
So
finding
the
balance
is,
is
kind
of
like
a
fine
art,
I
think
but
yeah.
So
I.
Think
in
terms
of
that,
for
me
I'm
trying
to
find
the
way
to
push
the
the
space
and
keep
doing
new
stuff.
That's
one
of
the
biggest
challenges,
but
actually
I
think
that
you
can
do
really
cool
stuff
quite
easily
within
the
tools
that
we
have
and
all
the
tools
are
free
and
you
can
quickly
upload
your
stuff
to
a
web
page
and
run
around
quite
fast.
C
So
for
a
new
Builder
I
think
I
would
just
say:
yeah
go
and
do
it
you
can
get
blender
or
you
can
even
buy
assets
or
download
free
assets
and
drop
them
into
Unity,
which
is
also
free,
and
then
you
can
get
the
Mona
tools
which
are
also
free
and
before
you
know
it,
you've
got
a
3D
space
which
you
can
spend
time
in
with
your
friends.
I
think
that
would
be
my
advice
to
to
new
users.
Well,.
A
And
Natalie
you
started
kind
of
really
really
kind
of
fresh
and
when
you
came
into
3D
and
you
had
this
persistence
to
dive
on
in
and
just
build
and
that's
kind
of
expanded
across
the
metaverse
going
into
your
work
with
the
central
land
and
elsewhere,
as
Matt
had
mentioned
kind
of
as
a
new
Builder
coming
in
there's
a
lot
of
intimidation
of
like
oh
I'm,
I'm,
not
good
enough
to
build
in
the
metaverse
or
I
I
hit.
This
block
tell
us
a
little
bit
about.
A
B
And
I
think
I
mean
that's
kind
of
like
what
my
current
role
at
Mona,
which
is
so
much
fun
because
a
lot
of
times
I
think
new
Builders
have
to
understand.
Sometimes
you
have
to
take
a
step
back
to
take
a
step
forward.
So
a
lot
of
it's
like
it
isn't
that
you're,
starting
at
zero
a
lot
of
times
you
have
to
come
in
way
below
zero,
to
build
up
the
knowledge
base
to
even
understand
what
blender
is
or
Unity
or
what
Mona
is
doing.
So
it's
like
helping
them
understand.
B
That's
like
part
of
the
process
and
that's
just
been
a
big
part
for
me.
That's
helped
me.
It's
like
it's.
Okay,
like
I,
don't
know
exactly
in
the
beginning
what
this
was
and
the
willingness
to
just
dive
in
reach
out
to
the
community
and
also
again,
that's
it's
great,
that's
kind
of
my
role,
Now,
to
create
engaging
like
actually
like
experiences
that
help
Builders
come
in
and
be
like.
B
We
did
ideation
Workshop,
just
some
people
don't
even
know
what
to
do
so,
like
creating
experiences
like
that,
and
also
bonding
with
the
community
which
we're
all
there
to
help,
which
is
the
best
part
to
me.
So
having
that
connection
to
the
community,
knowing
that
all
of
us
are
here
to
help
not
just
Mona
people,
but
all
the
builders
that
are
part
of
it
is
really
really
helpful,
and
also
just
knowing
that,
it's
again
back
to
that
failure,
I
think
it's
okay
to
fail
and
and
and
build
up
your
knowledge.
A
A
C
So
people
are
looking
at
that
saying.
Well,
why
would
I
be
in
this
space
or
what
is
interesting
for
me
in
in
the
metaverse,
and
they
see
that
as
the
example
so
I,
don't
really
blame
them
for
feeling
that
that
way,
actually
and
I
think
it's
on
us
really
to
kind
of
dispel
that
that
skepticism
and
then
that
cynicism
by
building
experiences
which
are
equally
or
better
than
games.
C
Basically,
so
people
have
a
high
expectation
and
we
have
to
really
meet
that
and
I
think
we're
getting
there
and
there's
a
lot
of
teething
problems.
But
I
think
that
in
time
we
will
make
it
to
the
same
level
and
then
go
beyond
because
I
feel
the
potential
in
this
space
is
far
beyond
what
there
is
in
the
in
the
gaming
industry.
A
And
so
all
you
I
guess
kind
of
as
creators
coming
into
this,
and-
and
you
know
there
at
least
we
from
what
we've
observed.
Is
that
there's
this
new
level
of
Freedom
as
a
Creator
to
come
in
and
kind
of
create
an
unconstrained
and
in
a
lot
of
the
worlds
that
we're
seeing
from
you
and
the
thousands
of
creators
building
with
Mona?
A
C
A
A
D
D
D
B
No
I
mean
I
just
see
it
like
coming
from
a
background
in
stem
education
is
just
another
tool
in
your
toolbox.
You
know
it's
like.
Every
technology
is
always
evolving
and
it's
just
another
really
fun
ideation
tool.
You
know
and
exploring
to
a
lot
of
people
I've
been
seeing
them
using
AI
in
general
to
just
like
start
the
creativity
process
you
know
and
and
see
where
it
goes
from
there,
but
I
I'm
at
heart,
I,
love,
building
and
creating
myself.
So
it's
not
like
yeah,
it's
great,
that
it
can
do
it's
like.
B
Okay,
I'm
gonna
do
this,
you
know,
but
it's
just
a
good
way
to
start
start.
The
process
and
yeah
I
am
curious
to
see.
I
want
I
definitely
want
to
explore
and
play
with
it,
but
it's
just
going
to
be
another
tool.
You
know
it's
it's
really
about
the
process
and
all
these
amazing
tools
that
allow
us
to
create
so
much
that,
like
just
20
years
ago,
you
couldn't
do
any
of
this
without
a
huge
team.
C
C
I
just
wanted
to
I
totally
agree
with
you.
I
think
I
see
it
as
a
tool
as
well.
For
me,
I've,
just
I've
been
using
it
as
part
of
my
process
so
far,
just
as
a
like
a
concepting
tool
like
just
put
some
ideas
and
get
some
reference,
I
think
even
in
like
simple
form,
it's
it's
really
useful
and
it
enables
you
to
do
things
that
you
just
wouldn't
be
able
to
do
before
without
like
concept,
artists
or
or
like
a
whole
team
of
people.
C
So
so
yeah,
it's
just
it's
facilitating
tool
for
building
better
stuff,
I
think
and
it's
going
to
get
more
sophisticated
and
we'll
be
able
to
do
bigger
and
better
things
with
it,
which
is
kind
of
scary,
because
you
know
the
idea
that
you
can
just
generate
something
that
would
take
us
months
like
in
seconds.
Well,
then
you
can
make
something
even
bigger
right.
D
Yeah
it's
it's
kind
of
interesting
because,
like
AI
allows
us
to
do
stuff
really
quick
and
one
of
them
is
not
optimized
assets.
So
it's
part
of
the
process
that
a
lot
of
different
places
are
coming
into
the
game
development
space
being
in
metaversal
wherever
else,
and
there
is
that
step
of
okay.
We
need
to
take
this
amazing
asset
and
put
it
in
a
way
that
allows
the
browser
to
make
it
look
good
and
run
well,
and
there
are
a
lot
of
steps
that
are
available
to
do
that.
D
So
it's
quite
difficult
to
say
this
is
this
is
how
you
do
it
when
you
get
from
so
many
different
people,
so
coming
from
Rhino
and
Revit
AutoCAD,
these
all
do
not
care
about
poly
counts
at
all,
so
teaching
these
people
how
to
optimize
those
assets
is
different
from
coming
from
say
if
you're,
a
cinematographer
or
a
sculptor,
because
there's
more
curves
involved
and
they're
just
that
one
thing
alone
will
change
the
answer.
A
lot
in
regards
to
how
you
do
it.
B
It's
also
a
fun
design
challenge.
Low
poly
is
fun
to
make,
and
it's
just
it'll
improve.
You
know
just
doing
little
workshops
on
that
is
going
to
make
you
view
how
you
create
things
differently.
So
that's
how
I
approach
it
it's
like,
even
though
it's
not
going
to
necessarily
look
super
pixelated,
it's
still
going
to
be
a
fun
way
that
you're
like
okay
I,
can
implement
it
like
you
were
talking
about
far
away
objects
or
how
you
can
Implement
in
part
of
your
design.
At
least
you
know,
that's
fun
way
to
look
at
it.
Yeah.
D
A
You
mentioned
the
design
kind
of
process
or
good
design
kind
of
thinking
around
this
and
the
collaboration,
the
kind
of
collaboration
with
others
when
creating
some
of
these
more
expansive,
larger
worlds,
Matt
does
design.
You
recently
did
a
collaboration
with
coldie
on
this
and
talk
a
little
bit
about
that
kind
of
collaborative
process
and
Spirits
when
working
with
a
kind
of
a
incredible
top
tier
at
more
traditional
or
nft
artists.
A
C
C
The
the
real
Joy
of
it
is
that
he
like
he
sees
that
this
space
is,
is
exciting
and
interesting
and
that
he
wants
to
be
part
of
it,
and
so
he's
prepared
to
give
the
space
to
create
something,
really
cool
that
maybe
others
might
not
be
able
to
so
he's
he's
kind
of
he
wants
to
Pioneer
in
this
space
because
he
sees
the
value
of
that
and
I.
Think
that
that's
that's
like
for
me
perfect.
As
a
builder,
because
it
gives
me
license
to
build
stuff
that
other
people
probably
wouldn't
wouldn't
consider.
A
Well,
and
and
in
all
of
your
worlds,
that
you
all
have
created
at
this
point
over
the
kind
of
over
the
past
year,
you've
got
to
experience.
Others
explore
your
worlds
for
the
first
time
and
tell
us
about
a
time
when
you
know
I,
guess
a
memorable
experience.
You
had
with
someone
else
like
interacting
with
your
your
space,
either
for
the
full
first
time
or
entering
into
a
world
you
created.
B
Mine
worlds
are
kind
of
crazy
fractal
world,
so
people
are
usually
like
what
the
hell
is
this.
So
that's
been
my
it's
actually
great
because,
usually
like
I
come
from
again
traditional
working
in
Visual,
Arts,
centers
and
teaching
Digital
Arts,
but
also
like
always
having
to
design
and
do
things
that
other
people
wanted
so
like
these
worlds.
That
I
built
were
I
wanted
to
recreate
my
sketches
and
just
I.
B
Just
let
myself
allow
myself
to
do
that
and
like
it's
seen
by
when
people
explore
it
they're,
just
like
this
crazy,
fractal
kind
of
like
the
in
between
Order
and
Chaos
kind
of
Worlds,
and
that
to
me
just
like
just
there
on
not
able
to
understand
it
is
I'm
on
the
right
path.
That's
where
I
want
to
be
it's
a
fun
experience.
Then
they
just
run
around
and
like
the
Bliss
of
like
just
having
people
explore
and
try
to
find.
B
The
pull-ups
I
hid
that
only
one
person
I've
ever
found,
one
of
and
they're
all
still
hidden
in
there
and
yeah.
So
that
part
to
me
is
just
it's
just
fun
and
I've
had
like
different.
You
know
spaces
where
we've
explored
it
and
it's
just
it's
just
fun
to
see
how
they
engage
in
it
and
where
they
go
to
you
know,
usually
it's
that
highest
spot
search.
B
You
know,
even
if
it's
not
a
staircase
they'll
find
a
way
and
or
I
did
I
did
a
world
where
it's
really
deep
down
and
just
can
keep
going
down
so
either
way.
But
yeah,
it's
just
been
a
fun
experience
watching
people
see
where
they
go
and
observing
in
that
sense,
and
just
that
initial
reaction
is
just
a
blast
and
fun
to
do.
C
D
I
think
I
think
for
me,
though.
The
weird
one
that
sticks
to
my
mind
is
telling
my
mum
how
to
use
my
space,
but
just
like
the
concept
of
w
is
forward.
A
is
left
like
all
these
sort
of
things,
but
she
figured
it
out
and,
like
my
mother's,
never
been
a
gamer
she's
like
I've,
been
a
gamer
from
the
beginning,
and
she
just
didn't
understand
it
from
the
like
a
colleague,
her
vision,
I
think
it
was
so
yeah
just
running
mum
through
this
is
what
I'm
doing
now.
D
This
is
where
I'm
going
and
trying
to
teach
her
how
to
use
it
over
the
Internet.
It
was
just
kind
of
like
a
really
sweet
experience
of
yeah.
This
is
a
thing
you
can
do
now
and
she
was
like
oh
wow.
It
was
like
really
really
weird,
so
there
were
have
been
definitely
situations
where
it's
like.
Oh
that's,
really
cool,
but
this
is
the
one
that's
like
this
is.
This
is
the
experience
that
I've
got
I.
B
Do
I
have
to
add
to
that
I
have
shown
it
to
my
14
year
old
son
and
my
nieces,
who
are
the
Roblox
generation
they're
like
Yep
this
they
are
very
native
to
it.
They
get
it
instantly.
They're
like
okay,
another
weird
creation,
they're
running
around
that
has
been
my
favorite
experience,
showing
kids
my
world
because
I
get
it
like.
C
B
A
C
For
me,
I
I
guess
I:
try
not
to
try
not
to
make
things
complicated
to
my
parents,
but
I
guess
it
helps
that
I
had
a
background
in
games.
I
can
just
say
it's
it's
something
similar
to
games,
but
I
guess
for
people
who
don't
know
like
creating
a
a
3D
environment.
A
virtual
world
I
would
go
along
those
lines
and
see
see
what
the
reaction
is.
B
Yeah
or
I
go
to
like
real
world
events
like
it's
like
burning
man,
but
in
digital
space,
or
you
know
something
along
those
lines.
A
lot
of
Festival
goers
are.
It
is
like
a
giant
Festival
of
creation
or
a
Dreamscape
or
Vivid
dream
in
people.
Most
people
experience
some
kind
of
dream.
So
in
many
ways
it's
like
that.
D
So
I
think
the
fact
that
the
metaverse
is
coming
in
from
a
sort
of
a
different
angle,
which
is
more
social,
more
event
based
is,
is
quite
an
interesting
approach
to
being
able
to
communicate
with
these
other
industries.
That
I
think
are
getting
a
lot
of
value
out
of
it
and
being
able
to
expand
their
view
into
I.
Don't
know
just
cool
stuff,
to
be
honest,
so
I'm
really
looking
forward
to
seeing
what
the
under
Industries
bring
to
the
gaming
space
without
knowing
they're
doing
that.
So
that's
cool.
B
Yeah
I
was
just
I
was
at
hackathon
recently
and
that's
what
pretty
much
we
did.
We
created
a
space
that
was
the
recreation
of
the
environment
of
a
pygmy
rabbit.
You
know,
so
it
was
like
how
can
you
use
these
spaces
as
educational
components
and
everything's
downloadable
create
the
mobile
metaverse
out
of
it,
and
then
I
mean
the
whole
yeah
group
that
we
presented
to
or,
like
you
know
afterwards,
we're
really
fascinated
with
how
they
could
apply
it
to
their
whatever
use
case
or
whatever
project
they
had.
A
And
it's
you
know
inherently
social,
these
experiences,
if
you,
as
you
all
mentioned,
with
those
interactions
in
the
world,
whether
it's
a
a
kind
of
a
a
concert-like
Club
experience
or
something
kind
of
I,
also
more
kind
of
low-key
or
or
like
that,
but
I
guess
over
the
next
year
as
the
kind
of
the
scale
of
these
worlds
expands
and
the
infrastructure
improves
to
support
thousands
upon
thousands
of
participants.
You
know
you
mentioned
kind
of
those
Burning
Man
type
experiences.
A
C
So
I
I
think
going
back
to
my
point
earlier.
I
want
to
see
metaverse
spaces,
which
kind
of
push
the
the
boundaries
a
bit
so
I
want
to
see
things
which
do
things
better
in
the
metaverse
than
can
be
done
anywhere
else,
and
so
that
I
think
is
like
the
main
potential
of
this
space
and
I
hope
that
that
comes
and
that's
what
I'm
working
on
so
stuff
that
can
really
enhance
our
lives
and
and
give
us
greater
capabilities
than
we
would
have
just
in
our
everyday
realities.
B
D
I
think
I'm
going
to
be
different
actually
because,
like
I,
want
to
show
and
I
was
talking
about
how
other
people
are
coming
into
the
space
I'd
like
to
see
more,
like
even
personal
or
private
experiences,
where
you
can
go
and
experience,
poetry
or
singing
or
I
have
this
random
parody
of
Welcome
to
the
internet
that
I'm
trying
to
do
so.
People
can
sort
of
run
in
and
just
experience,
some
bad
version
of
something.
That's
amazing,
but
I
think
education.
D
So
education
is
a
big
thing
for
me
with
the
information
that
we
have
access
to
now,
being
able
to
teach
that
to
kids
to
even
old
people
like
this
stuff.
I'm
learning
about
atoms
in
comparison
while
and
in
high
school
is
like
that's,
that's
different
things
have
changed
and
I
would
like
to
learn
that
in
a
cool
way.
So.
B
Yeah,
but
also
like
along
those
lines
like
collaborative
World,
building
with
different
software
like
when
better
guys
and
I
did
a
collab
in
gravity
sketch.
We
were
like
giggling
like
for
an
hour
like
it
was
the
coolest
thing
ever
and
I'm,
like
more
of
that
too,
like
how
to
build
these
worlds
together
in
fun.
Crazy.
That's
when,
like
really
cool
ideas
happen
you
know.
So
that's
another
thing.
That's.