►
Description
When data is created on IPFS, who is responsible for maintaining that data? In this talk, Pinata co-founder and CEO Kyle Tut dives into data permanence and discusses how to keep the data behind a CID alive.
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A
A
and
we
actually
got
our
start
with
a
pinning
service,
because
my
co-founder
matt
and
I
were
building
blockchain
applications,
mostly
in
the
ethereum
space
in
2017
2018,
and
you
know,
we
quickly
realized
that
a
lot
of
data
storage
needed
to
take
place
on
ipfs
and
we
were
running
our
own
nodes
at
the
time,
and
so
we
ended
up
just
deciding
you
know.
Probably
other
people
have
similar
problems
as
us,
so
we'll
just
start
spinning
up
ipfs
nodes
and
seeing
if
people
would
be
willing
to
to
pin
on
top
of
them.
A
A
We
really
focus
on
being
easy.
So
if
you
go
to
our
service,
we're
pretty
lightweight
and
simple.
Our
api
is
easy.
Our
user
interface
is
extremely
easy,
not
too
complicated.
We
don't
add
too
much
to
it.
We
make
sure
that
we
are
trying
to
be
as
fast
as
possible
and
then
reliable
as
well
and
just
trying
to
be
up
and
getting
across
the
network
as
quickly
as
possible.
With
these
pins
is
basically
our
our
main
goals
and
main
strategy
as
running
as
a
pinning
service.
A
A
A
It
gets
really
really
expensive
really
really
quickly,
and
so
this
is
where
there's
the
off
chain
storage
portion
of
nfts,
and
so
the
main
problem
that
nfts
are
running
into
right
now
is
the
fact
that
the
majority
of
the
people
that
are
creating
these
nfts
are
using
traditional
web
2
infrastructure.
So
a
lot
of
these
people,
whether
they're
digital
artists
or
game
creators
or
whatever
the
situation,
may
be
believe
that,
because
they
have
a
nft
that
is
sitting
on
a
blockchain
that
they're
securing
the
asset
more
than
they
traditionally
would.
A
However,
there's
you
know,
there's
a
problem
with
that,
and
that
is
the
fact
that
they're
using
urls
to
reference
the
data
underneath.
So
as
you
can
see
on
my
screen
here,
let's
say
we
have
a
a
png
image.
That's
the
digital
asset
that
was
created
by
an
artist
and
it's
this
grayscale
pinata
image
right
here
that
creates
a
link
and
a
url,
and
they
usually
embed
that
into
the
nft.
A
So
luckily
we
have
ipfs
to
come
to
the
rescue
with
content,
addressable
data,
where
we're
addressing
the
data
based
on
the
data
itself
and
is
obviously
commonly
referred
to
as
content,
ids
or
cids
or
hashes.
However,
you
want
to
put
it
and
with
that,
it
kind
of
changes
the
paradigm
and
it
introduces
security
and
verifiability
to
the
off
chain
asset
of
the
nft
itself.
A
So
you
can
see
here
we
have
the
cid
of
this
grayscale
pinata
and
that
is
grayscale
pinata
and
you
embed
that
in
the
nft
and
then,
if
that
asset
were
to
ever
change,
obviously
the
cid
would
change
itself.
So,
as
a
buyer
or
seller
doesn't
really
matter
of
an
nft,
you
can
prove
that
the
asset
is
what
it's
supposed
to
be
again
just
to
reiterate.
Over
and
over
again
with
the
url
system,
you
can
change
the
underlying
asset
and
the
url
stays
the
same
with
cids.
A
That's
not
true.
If
the
asset
changes,
the
cid
changes
and
that's
kind
of
the
paradigm
shift
that
a
lot
of
people
in
the
nft
space
are
still
learning,
but
as
soon
as
they
grasp
that
concept,
it
becomes
very,
very
powerful
for
them
now
jumping
into
the
next
problem
that
we've
been
running
into-
and
I
think
is,
is
very
interesting
for
a
lot
of
people
that
are
running
pinning
services
or
any
kind
of
service
using
ipfs
is
the
question
of
who
pays
for
the
off
chain
data.
A
So
typically,
what
happens
is
applications
come
to
us
and
they
will
say
or
a
digital
artist.
Whatever
the
situation
is,
and
they
will
say,
hey,
I
want
to
mint
nfts
and
I
want
the
off
chain
data
associated
with
it
to
be
on
ipfs
through
pinata,
and
I
want
it
to
persist
forever
and
I
I
don't
want
to
pay,
for.
A
It
is
usually
where
we
end
up
going
in
that
conversation
and
that's
a
very
difficult
conversation
that
we've
ran
into
for
over
a
year
now
is
kind
of
trying
to
like
make
our
way
through
what
is
really
being
asked
by
the
the
user
there.
What
they
want
as
an
app
developer
versus
what
their
customers
might
want,
that
are
buying
the
tokens,
and
so
I've
been
framing
this
as
a
simple
concept
of
is
da
vinci
responsible
for
the
mona
lisa.
A
The
painting
is
something
like
over
500
years
old
and
the
the
person
that
or
the
body
that
takes
care
of
that
painting
today
is
the
louvre
museum
right,
and
that
makes
a
lot
of
sense
in
the
way
physical
assets
are
transferred.
It
would
be
kind
of
weird,
if
you
think
about
it,
that
da
vinci
would
have
to
think
about
pre-funding,
the
mona
lisa
for
over
500
years
to
exist
and
not
transfer
those
costs
to
somebody
else.
A
You
know
the
buyer
immediately
becomes
responsible
for
the
data
now
this
is
kind
of
an
extreme
view
and
isn't
very
buyer
friendly.
It's
certainly
seller
friendly,
but
you
can
imagine,
you
might
say:
hey.
You
have
seven
days
to
figure
out
whether
or
not
you're
actually
going
to
pin
the
the
off
chain
asset,
that's
on
ipfs,
and
you
could
simply
you
know,
use
pinata
or
any
other
printing
service
to
actually
pin
that
asset.
A
The
other
way
to
think
about
it
is
something
we
just
called
warranties
and
if
anybody
has
once
we're
through
this
point,
if
anybody
has
better
ideas
of
what
to
name
this
kind
of
concept
of
as
is
versus
warranties,
totally
open
to
it,
but
with
warranties,
the
seller
actually
defines
how
long
they
will
maintain
the
the
data
on
ipfs
and
so
with
the
digital
artist.
They
might
say,
hey.
A
This
is
a
very
simple
way
to
think
about
it,
but
you
could
also
have
an
instance
in
that,
where
you
know
the
the
creator
sells
the
piece
of
art.
They
say
it's
three
years
that
new
buyer
only
holds
it
for
a
year
and
then
they
pass
it
on
to
the
next
person
and
conveniently
because
you
know
that
cid
isn't
changing
or
if
it
does
change.
You
know
it.
You
can
trust
the
data
itself
and
ensure
that
the
data
hasn't
changed.
A
Another
example
would
actually
be
with
something
like
gaming,
so
there's
a
lot
of
games
out
there
that
are
using
nfts
to
represent
game
assets,
whether
it's
a
you
know,
a
shield
or
any
piece
of
clothing.
Any
kind
of
gaming
assay
you
can
think
of
is
represented
also
with
an
nft
on
a
blockchain,
the
game
company
might
say:
hey.
A
Right
now,
they're
pretty
relatively
cheap
to
post,
but
once
the
data
sets
get
large
that
are
being
transferred
by
tokens,
it
becomes,
you
know
pretty
important,
and
so
what
we
think
would
help
out
in
the
nft
space
was,
is
just
define.
Who
is
responsible?
Is
it
the
creator?
Is
it
the
digital
artist
that
should
be
responsible
for
the
cost
of
hosting
or
pinning
that
content
forever?
Is
it
the
platform,
so
there's
platforms
out
there
like
open
c
or
super
rare
mint
base?
A
I
think
or
mintable
something
like
that,
where
they
they
partner
with
creators
and
mint
this
content,
should
they
be
responsible
for
the
content
forever
or
should
the
buyer
be
responsible
for
it?
And
you
know
it's
not
one
or
the
other.
It's
definitely
a
spectrum
of
when
it
can
transfer
over
between
creator
platform.
Buyer.
It
could
be
all
three
right.
Obviously,
with
ipfs
the
creator
could
pin
it.
A
The
platform
could
pin
it
and
the
buyer
can
pin
it
and
it's
you
know,
super
redundant,
it's
really
up
to
up
to
them,
and
one
other
way
to
think
about.
It
is,
if
you
think
about
how
you
know
we
buy
things
on
physical
assets
on
ebay.
Let's
say
you
know
you
have
to
you:
buy
a
car
on
ebay,
there's
a
negotiation
that
happens
between
the
buyer
and
the
seller
of
hey.
I
bought
this
car,
I'm
in
nebraska
and
you're
in
california.
A
A
So
how
do
you
transfer
this
responsibility?
Well,
with
pinata,
it's
pretty
simple:
we
have
a
pin
by
hash
function.
You
can
just
go
to
that.
Nft
find
the
the
cid
or
the
hash,
take
it
and
then
pin
it,
and
then
you
can
ensure
that
it's
obviously
pinned
for
as
long
as
you
own
the
own,
the
token
and
you
should
be
incentivized
to
actually
want
to
care
about
whatever
that
asset
is
and
to
wrap
it
up.
So
why
is
this
important?
Well,
it
reduces
friction.
A
A
You
know
they
they
aren't
always
responsible
for
it.
They
don't
have
to
think
about.
You
know
how
are
they
going
to
ensure
this
being
around
forever?
They
can.
They
can
pass
to
the
past
that
to
the
next
person
and
and
make
sure
that
they
get
get
it
as
long
as
they
kind
of
predetermine.
What
actually
needs
to
happen,
so
it
reduces
friction
on
the
the
blockchain
side,
the
token
side.
A
But
then
it
also
reduces
friction
on
the
ipfs
side
and
allows
ipfs
to
have
another
kind
of
market
that
it
can
go
after
to
you
know,
obviously
increase
the
usage
of
ipfs
and
ipfs.
Is
is
really
well
positioned
for
this,
obviously,
because
of
the
content,
addressable
data
and
your
ability
to
verify
and
secure
the
data
itself
with
the
cids.
So
that's
that's
always
all
I
got
happy
pinning
and
would
love
to
take
any
any
questions.
B
This
is
awesome,
kyle,
you've,
clearly
inspired
a
ton
of
people
in
the
chat
you're
blowing
everyone's
minds
about,
like
awesome,
integrations
around
dynamically
detecting
and
persisting
nfts
in
your
account,
either
through
the
the
marketplace
where
you're,
storing
these
nfts
or
your
wallet
or
other
ways
of
dynamically
doing
that
have
you
have.
You
talked
with
any
of
the
folks
in
in
kind
of
that
space
about
these
sorts
of
default
integrations
for.
A
A
However,
not
everybody
goes
through
the
platforms
and,
as
I
mentioned
as
soon
as
the
data
sets
start
getting
bigger
and
bigger
and
bigger
that
are
being
exchanged,
they
might
not
want
to
subsidize
this,
but
so
they
haven't
ran
into
the
problem.
The
way
we
have
that's
kind
of
a
a
curse,
I
guess
of
pinata
is
since
we've
always
been
charging
people.
A
A
They
understand
that
their
their
hard
working
data
set
their
asset,
whatever
they're,
creating
digital
artwork
can
change
on
them,
and
that's
not
good
for
business
essentially
for
them,
especially
as
if
you
think
about
them
as
content
creators
that
kind
of
undermines
what
they're
actually
selling.
So
that's,
where
ipfs
really
comes
in
and
and
saves
the
day
for
them.
B
A
Much
so
yeah
we
have
a
blog
post
from
like
two
years
ago,
where
we
touch
on
that,
and
how
do
you
share
actually
pinning
costs
and
that's
something
that
certainly
we
feel
is
going
to
happen.
We
haven't
quite
figured
out
how
to
make
it
happen
yet,
but
it
has
been
in
our
minds
for
over
two
years
of
how
do
you
make
that
happen?
A
We
get
the
question
a
lot
with
dows,
but
you
can
even
see
it
you
could.
You
could
expand
that
up
to
enterprise,
you
know,
corporations
they
may
not
actually
want
to
fully
pay
for
something
and
if
they
can
split
that
cost
with
other
organizations,
that's
pretty
powerful
and
I
was
actually
at
a
meet
up
recently
where
a
cloud
provider
because
of
blockchain
had
to
totally
change
their
their
pricing
to
allow
for
sharing
of
infrastructure
costs
between
different
organizations.
A
Yeah,
absolutely
I
mean,
as
long
as
you
can
have
a
content,
addressable
piece
of
data
that
works
perfectly
fine
and
you're
still
going
to
have
the
same
exact
problem.
Even
you
know,
filecoin
will
definitely
lower
the
price,
but
there's
still
going
to
be
that
kind
of
tension
between
the
buyer
and
the
seller
of
of
who's
actually
responsible
for
the
data,
so
you'll
be
able
to
definitely
use
filecoin
in
this
situation.
B
D
Bless
you
with
speaking
okay,
perfect
guys,
yeah
I'd,
say
the
biggest.
The
biggest
problem
is
just
kind
of
been
like
playing
on
the
the
bleeding
edge
of
something
so
ipfs
has
been.
You
know
you
guys
have
been
seeing
30x
growth
every
year.
You
know,
we've
been
seeing
similar
kind
of
along
that
same
trajectory.
D
The
the
biggest
challenges
I
just
working
with
large
data
sets.
I
think
garbage
collection
is
one.
I've
talked
a
lot
with
your
team
about
serving
data
has
actually
been
fairly
easy.
I
saw
that
mentioned
by
one.
The
gateways
do
a
pretty
good
job
of
that,
so
props
to
your
team,
for
that
tooling,
make
lives
easier
better,
as
in
for
providers.
D
I
I'd
say
that
the
the
initial
ones
would
probably
be
like
content
tracking.
So
you
know
how
you
know:
how
are
how
is
your
data
being
served?
How
many
times
is
a
piece
of
data
being
served?
You
know
where
is
it
going?
That
kind
of
stuff
has
been
something
we've
been
thinking
about
doing
ourselves,
but
just
haven't
really
quite
got
the
bandwidth
for
yet.
B
B
We
need
something
that
helps
us
validate
we're,
making
it
better
and
actually
lets
us
run
all
these
benchmarks.
I
can
imagine
the
exact
same
thing
is
from
a
pending
service
perspective,
where
you
want
that
those
analytics
like
the
logging,
the
metrics,
that
you
can
look
at
your
service
and
optimize
and
quantify
the
performance
you're,
offering
your
users.
A
So
we
haven't
interacted
with
the
buyers
that
much
specifically
just
the
creators,
but
we
don't
really
see
it
as
our
responsibility
to
insert
ourselves
into
that
negotiation.
They
can
figure
out
whether
the
seller's
responsible
or
the
buyers
are
responsible
or
the
exchange
in
between
is
responsible.
We're
not
too
concerned
about
that
conversation.
A
The
only
thing
we
are
concerned
about
is
making
sure
people
understand
what's
actually
happening
and
setting
up
the
framework
to
you
know
start
that
conversation,
because
the
friction
that
we
want
to
reduce
is
how
difficult
it
is
for
those
those
buyers
and
sellers
to
actually
interact
around
making
sure
that
the
data
will
exist
so
to
us.
We
haven't
interacted
with
the
buyers.
You
know
we
probably
will
in
the
future,
but
to
us
it's
not.
You
know
a
huge
thing
that
we
want
to
actually
focus
on.
B
Awesome
yeah,
I
will
say,
like
I
remember,
going
to
my
my
three
box
wallet
and
it
was
like
there
were
the
the
ens
domains
that
I
purchased.
I
was
like,
oh
great,
like
these
appear
here
by
default.
You
could
also
imagine
every
every
file
or
transaction
that
I've
committed
like
I
would.
I
have
a
an
interest
and
those
being
persisted.
B
Having
really
easy
plug-ins
to
you
know
with
my
local
pinning
service
account
make
sure
all
of
that
continues
existing
without
a
lot
of
work
on
my
part,
make
my
life
a
ton,
easier,
yep,
all
right,
one,
more
question
in
the
chat
and
then
we
will
transition
over
to
chain
safe.
How
are
folks
seeing
the
main
dap
use
cases
evolve.
Things
like
storing
front
ends
nfts.
What
kind
of
dapps
are
being
stored,
storing
end
user
data?
What
are
what
are
people
seeing
open
question
too?
A
Yeah,
I
mean
the
majority
of
the
use.
Cases
are
just
making
sure
that
they
have
proof
of
what
that
data
looked
like
or
has
looked
like
in
the
past,
so
whether
it's
a
small
piece
of
data
or
a
large
piece
of
data,
they
have
that
cid
record
somewhere
and
can
prove
it.
And
this
is
big
in
supply
chain
cases.