IPFS Pinning Summit 2020, 14 May 2020

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From YouTube: Make Your Home Not Spy On You - Raullen Chai

Description

We’re surrounded by billions of Internet-connected and intelligent devices, which are observing and recording us all the time. The dream of a smart, safe, and efficient future is threatened by intrusive surveillance. Ucam, powered by IoTeX, is the next-gen indoor camera that is user-centric, feature-packed, and fully private. By shifting data ownership from corporations to consumers, Ucam ensures value extracted from data is delivered to their rightful owner. This presentation introduces Ucam’s technology including blockchain identity, decentralized storage (IPFS), and e2e encryption.

Read more about the inaugural IPFS Pinning Summit on the website: https://ipfspinningsummit.com/

For more information on IPFS
- visit the project website: https://ipfs.io
- or follow IPFS on Twitter: https://twitter.com/IPFS

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For more information on Filecoin
- visit the project website: https://filecoin.io
- or follow Filecoin on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Filecoin

Get Filecoin community news and announcements in your inbox, monthly: http://eepurl.com/gbfn1n

A

Some simple facts about me right, so I called my PhD from u Waterloo back in 2012 major Union cartography, like my research, was focused on lied to be cracked. Ography, basically make it feasible for IOT constraint devices. So some of my research has been standardized by nist yeah. You know, after just like a four and half year doing most like academic research. Type stuff. I. Think like an industry is interesting, so I, you know, join Google stay there for half year leading lots of projects. Some of you.

A

Maybe you heard about like HTTP, to certificate transparency like you know, SSL everywhere crime and breach attacks, yeah. Also having found the engineer for the load balancer product like Google Cloud, has right now and then I moved to Hoover stay there before you know a little bit more than one year leading a team to do lots of security privacy regulation stuff.

A

So if your happen to be a blueberry user and don't worry about it, all your data is actually protected by me and my team and my system behind ya, don't worry and then after that, I found the aisle tax right. So that's: where are we right now back in connect 17? So this presentation is about making your home not spying on you I think it's a very interesting like a use case. We were building and also we see like a very strong synergy between IP ifs and file coin. Okay.

A

So let me jump right into this one, so, basically we're surrounded by billions of inter intelligent Internet connected devices so which are observing and recording us all. The time and all the systems are here, information you know from our homes about ourselves is actually getting collected and used. You know by either Google Amazon or like a corporate intermediaries or like a hackers where they can do data bridge. So the dream for smart, safe on the private future is strengthened basically by this intrusive surveillance, which a lot. So we have bad news.

A

Negativity is about this camera, some lots of smart home devices right, so that's a problem and which you fix it. So that's why I found the aisle tax back in 2017 with two other co-founders, so we're in Menlo Park. So you guys so you know, feel free to come by. It was kind of when every office and we have 30 ish. You know top people from from you know: Google uber, Facebook and also top universities, so the girl file tax is basically to build like an open platform for the internet of trusted things we want.

A

You know, power, those smart and connected devices. You know very trusted. Why trust their way and enable like an interaction of these physical things and digital things all together, allow them to change the information you know value and so on. So if you want to take a look, so here is our key hub. Some of the research papers we do have- and here the here is a trader so back to the security-camera business right. So there are basically like a two type of concerns.

A

We are saying right now, so the first one is like a security concerns. It's mostly because the also like your credentials, you know login password. Whatever is located in a very centralized system which might be buggy which might be vulnerable and also users. Input of this password could be very weak that leads to database breach. You know, liquid-liquid your password liquor, your video data, so on and so forth. So that's a security concern.

A

We can't characterize and other one is like a privacy concerns, so that comes with the fact that all your video data is actually hosted by you know Google Amazon and even some of the device manufacturers, so they have the chance to. You know to really look into your data to see what is going on. Why is so interesting? Maybe feed is to the machine learning algorithm. You know to trying to do some magic stuffs.

A

So definitely like not something you will be super interesting it right, so that that's also like a privacy concerns right to fix this. One III think like we have the right technology already. So that's why we partnership with a camera manufacturer actually in Asia, and we together, like we, we have made this few, can basically we design redesign the entire architecture and we, you know, design underlying crypto protocols. So this this device has been like attributed in CES, are this year and also in this innovation work.

A

The whole idea is basically like a you, as owner should own your home data home video data right. Okay, so do you have like a shot very short introduction? Video about you can from the per product perspective.

B

Can't really lets you own your privacy, but you can app supports multiple, you cans, which are all accessible in the Home Dashboard each you cam comes with its own set of controls, so you can customize your experience with two-way audio. 1080P live stream, video and pan tilt and zoom controls. You'll, never miss a thing. You can also set up motion, detection alerts and record video on demand, even while you're on the go. Your motion, detection clips and video recordings across all of your cameras are stored.

B

Privately in your own personal data vault, you can search for old videos based on date and time and also download, and share these videos seamlessly with other users with you cam. You are in full control of your data. You can choose to delete it view it or share it at any time. The you can map not only has great functionality, but it also has great customizability each you cam has granular settings that can be tailored to your lifestyle. For example, you can set motion detection alerts to be active only at specific hours.

B

You can also set. You can to record continuous footage to a local SD card in your settings. You can also see yeah.

A

I think that's that's pretty much about the funk.

A

So yeah, as you can see as a product is a state-of-the-art home camera eight cameras with all the fancy features it should have. But you know behind this camera there are actually four very innovative technologies we have put into so the first one is like a user centric key management, so the main idea here is like have a user to control lots of things. Let me dive down. I have a slide for that, and also because of this user century cooking McKee management control.

A

We can enable entering encryption between the camera and the user and, of course we want to create like a digital tree. That is a very fireball. So that's why we also Barry raise you know. Gip technology and the most importantly is like this storage you know has to be user only right, not anyone else. So that's why I think I reserve this most important important part for the last. Definitely like a we see a very strong synergy between ipfs and the five coin here.

A

So this is like a very high level architecture. How things look like behind the same right, so you have multiple parts. They sit like a user, has app. The app basically serves as a wallet. It accommodates like a private key user generates, and this private key is used used to derive other keys, that terror waits the camera. Then all the camera data actually gets encrypted the moment it gets captured right. So any of the user who have just you know trying the private key can access the data the same as any. You has.

A

A private key can access your Bitcoin once it's. You know. You lost your private key in the everything scrap. So that's that's very enough, and we have done some. You know device management Park on the on the public blockchain and we now use like a third party vendor they provide is p2p service, especially for the camera and the app talking with each other. You know regardless, like a weird assets, maybe a camera within your home network. Those mobile app is in the 45 G network. So this part is still like a from a third party.

A

We are going to kill it. You know yeah more by using like a multi, centralized one, then all the encrypted. You know videos are actually gets uploaded to the remote storage places for long option. Wha we have for the user is like cloud storage like a s3 which is very familiar to a lot of customers, so they are just normal people right, so they don't understand too much about this technology, so they can use cloud if they want, but most importantly is option.

A

Two we do want have this option here for very advanced users or maybe very Travis your users right, but putting their data onto ipfs and file code. So that's that that's why we're having this? This is conversation with the protocol at works yeah. So let me go through like this four pillars, just one by one I'm talking about the storage Park and last so the user centric key management basically means two things right. So the first one is we remove the centralized authentication server from the entire picture, so there's no such a place user.

A

You know password or maybe a password harsh gets stored without username, so user have to you know, click, and it's done something to that service. To get a token back. So we remove that part completely by using like a modern public key cryptography as you like, a challenge, a response type of protocol.

A

So that's that's one and then second one is like I kind of mentioned, so this encrypted key is actually generated in the app and which has been encrypted to use a master key and send to the camera in a p2p fashion, where this master key is any. You know, derived from a user's private key, so, like everything is so protected that any of the camera- and you know app owner- knows this- this key to decrypt the video content. So that's that's the first thing like a user centric.

A

Imagine it because we have such a you know very. You know kind of complete, complicated about this and design for this key exchange protocol. We can enable like entering encryption very easily so that all the encryption are created the same. You know what, usually you have this client to server encryption, meaning like someone sitting in the middle issue, the key to the client you should key to the server. Then they can talk right, but the vulnerability here is this guy sits in the middle.

A

Who can you know decrypt all the communications between these two sets and know what you're talking about, but into an encryption, is different like a gating, a radio of this man in the middle, by having this to just talking enough interactively and also securely. So definitely we have this end-to-end encryption like a baked into lots of parts. So for you can so that's a that's the second one. So the third one is the ID, so I'm not sure how familiar you guys are. You know with the ID I.

A

Just that's why I prepared facing like a two slides to explain what is the ID and how we use it? So if you look at like the trust, the web right, so there are basically two motives. Why is like a PKI? Basically, you have like a try structure where the SIA sits on the route, so everybody trusts to see it right. Then everybody can visit for like a new website. They'd never done before, because the catacombs ways like a certificate in science by a CA that you trust.

A

So this is like a very centralized way, so everybody tries to see a another way to build. Trust is called a web of trust, I think before we have some technology called a PGP, but today we can use the ID to realize a very similar like a type of idea. Basically a trust be Beatrice, see the HRC. So that's a very simple idea of you: hi. We have a trust. So tid is such a technology. It's very simple! So it's just a key value store right. So the key is like a D.

A

Id and value is the ID doc. So how does it the ID look like? So you think we look at this. This string, which is di di. Oh one, two, three, four, five, six you coming with to certain three parts: Y schema, D ID, of course it's D, ID and Y is measured. This is basically I Oh different blocks. Ian's have different kind of prefix, so we reserved IO file tax, but there are other block streams. We can also do the ID and less part is just a mess or specific identifiers could be.

A

You know, cause your public key could be. You know just like a new ID number yeah new, you ID number as well, so how this like the D ID can be. You know, link to our tid doc, which is know like this looks like this. Just food counted off made our information, so it's going through a process called a resolution. So resolution is more much more like a pianist type of idea. It goes through two layers, so the first layer is, you have the string. You go to a service called a universal resolver.

A

It points you to the right blotching right, so you just like I. Oh okay, go to aisle tax collection. If this is sov, okay, it goes to a sovereign blockchain right. So that's layer, 1 layer, 2 is once you land it on their specific blockchain. So you're going to do Micah, you know going to get the ID talk through this identifier. So the block thing we look at this 1 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 9 10 and get you back like the right document yeah.

A

So it's as simple as yes right so by having this, there are full nice properties. Of course it's desexualize because you're, not everybody, can launch a div and reaper can't do it and also it's verifiable I wish to the next slide and now reasonable, because you know it's tied to your private key, it's same as you know, you give the private key of Bitcoin to another guy. That's it's good happen right, resolvable, like I just described so once you have this really dark. You know you look into the dark.

A

You find like an information that might make sense to you, for example. So what's the manufacturer to your idea right who this belongs to you? What's the metadata of this product and mostly importantly, they come up with some idea called a verifiable credential, especially like a credential like a claim, for example, I claim I'm a PhD from your Waterloo right. Then this credential gets signed by you. What do right by the exact like the party? Who can issue this type of proof?

A

Then you carry this all the time with you, you mean like the device and you can prove to people. Okay, I. This device was manufactured. You know by this manufacturer, and this device has insurance basically from this insurance provider. So this all type of thing goes to the d-r-e doc. So this is like a man party for digital train. We are having here so the purpose of of doing the idea in digital training, especially we want to make sure all the attributes. All the information about you can is verifiable in a cryptography way right.

A

So that's why you know. So that's why we have a towel deployed on the block students that manage all the you know: D ID, registration, the registration, lots of things, and we have you can to basically provision this D ID.

A

When the first time gets set up, then we then you can can just request pcs like a verifiable credentials from different parties, one for a manufacturer, one from you know, insurance provider and another one from probably like a storage provider as well right that way, I think we won't make a you can't be heavier or you can vary a test law and verifiable just to fight against some. You know hacks some security issues over there. So that's a search technology.

A

What you have in this small camera and, lastly, I think that will come to light a very interesting part about the storage right. Everybody has a desire to store the data somewhere on. So that's why I like a story to have a very strong requirement so, like the format I won't have here, is like a requirement and asks for the IPF community right and I do have two scenarios. Let me do them one by one. So the first scenario is: basically user will do this, so the camera have a motion detector.

A

It says something's moving, it'll, be records, I, don't know 20 seconds and then upload this encrypted video clip back to the cloud or ipfs. You know secure way and this information stating on the cloud or ipfs can any access and user, of course can grant access to their trust walls. You know family members, friends, you know people who they trust and also this like a fire intention should be. You know: customizable by users, preference for example, like we have 7 days, 14 days and 30 days, like a retention for user to choose for now.

A

The first implementation we use s3. So it different like looks like this, but we are doing like we're actually in parking where it's like a rich trying to see. How can we, you know, also have a very similar concept plot put on the ipfs, so I think I do have three questions right, I would happy to you know, do more interaction after you know and I know this presentation, so the first one is like I recommended setup, so I see like a two or maybe even three type of state hat we could have.

A

So why is like a user have not like a network step storing services, city and home, which runs ipfs software. So by having this, the user can actually have. The video record goes to their local mass, but still he will be able to access a video auto out of her. Maybe him he's like a home network right, because you know IGFs is such a good. You know kind of CDF and type of technology, so that's that's the first one or she was set up like on our own s3 and also running some ipfs.

A

You know you front all this s3 and to serve for the user, or should we just use a pinning service like a pinata, I think I like Kylie, and me we talked about this when we, when we were doing like a Berkeley he'd have like probably two months ago. So that's what right so so so that's that's one thing III need to ask the ipfs community. The second one is authentication possible to get access to files.

A

I have a like a universe rate we explained before, and here is a good point like basically even encrypted this leader data is kind of sensitive and private. So can we build like a permission to overlay on top of like a very open, PGP, ipfs network right so, for example, I any trust this few ipfs nodes who can't you know relay my radio content files, so I can access everywhere yeah?

A

Can we do that? I I don't know the certain one is like the file rent engine, because you know this video data is huge. I can show you a mix slide, which we have an estimation is huge. We don't want like keep the data there forever right. So we want purge your data, maybe seven days 30 days, I, don't know, but the during way like a weekend. If it's a cache, we can, you know sit is TTL with cash to the you know, seven days or 14 days right.

A

Do you have a very similar concept in the IP address network yeah? That's that's a cert! So, moving on to the second scenario, I I want, you know definitely like a new feature. We want build a shareable storage, so the idea is very much like a YouTube or maybe tik-tok, but in you know, in the smart home scenario, basically user decide to share some very funny, video or whatever video publicly. So he will just decrypt everything and put it on.

A

Ipfs then share the cid to like ah you know, or something like with hashtags and other people can retrieve this cid to see the videos you know they are interesting and, of course, I see ipfs as a very interesting like a flow system. That I mean like a code. Wait we'll eventually disappeared, no one cares, but the hot ones will stay, which is good, but women.

A

You know really looking to the side here, I felt like a very challenging things: I I don't have a solution for so the first one is: is this fast enough right so think about it? If you want to use YouTube or maybe keep talk, you definitely you want open, apps app, then you wanna see.

A

Is it like the moving or maybe like a video clips right away, but, like my experience as a ipfs user, is it's very slow for the first time is loaded load out of the content yeah so either in a way like we can do privilege either anyway, like we can improve, like a user experience. I think that's that's a very also interesting topic. We should talk about and the second thing is I know. Ips is very open, so there's no censorship at all.

A

But in this scenario we do use some type of censorship, or maybe filtering may be comparing a control right now, whatever you call it because you say this is like a very family style like an app, you will be probably using with your kids you're in a wife. Your husband is the one you care about, and you don't want some. You know some random content. They just show up in your app, which might be not so user friendly either away like we can do that, not not too sure so, yeah yeah.

A

So that's another ask to the IP address community yeah. You know, despite this, given very like a technical challenges, we will do see like a strong requirement for the storage, as you can cruise. So we have this projection, which is basically like a linear, as with these invested, so each of the UK users will consume roughly one gigabyte of storage for, like a cylinders, rolling store on video. So let's say we have like a one user. He will just use one gigabyte of storage.

A

So if we have one sound, a user, that's 1 TB take a bite off like a storage right, 1 million user, which is not something too hard because we talked with this camera partner like they said you know, one being in newest cameras in the US market. In the past 12 months, the head will consume like a 1 pickup out of storage size.

A

So that's why I do say like like, like the value you know of this ipfs and fire :, especially if you can, you know, provide the centralization at the same time, because if they because the effective and also performant- so that's that's like a huge amount, you can 2.0. Definitely like a we. You can want, is you know about to get out the door? Probably in two three weeks definitely wants and you can't use each of you guys to you know, have a try and give us some feedback, but you can.

A

2.0 is also on the way we want do something very similar, but you know different form factors out door to obey, or maybe implore for officers, and also we want bloomed in some new technologies. We have like a secure element. It's like secured holo wallet. How do we our wallet right, basically a store, the private key in the in the security elements and decentralized networking in Fry's? Another thing we are looking into: we want to remove this PGP layer, which is kind of centralized. Although it's called p2p bus is centralized and certifies confidential computing.

A

We want to enable AI and compute over encrypted data. That's so many things we want to accomplish. You can 2.0 yeah, so the long-term vision right. So we did say like a ipfs and a five coin as the storage layer for IOT Internet of Trust things, which is in the center of the you know, the text stack we're saying here.

A

Let let me like a briefly describe this tech stack, so we do see like a the blockchain as a you know, root of trust sitting down on the on the bottom very button layer, which is something we already have.

A

You know beauty and launched in the past two years and the middleware have it like a three very critical parts and the centralized storage will be one of them and we did say like a fire coin and ifs will be like you know, in a co player for this decentralized storage in the next I, don't know one to three years and other two components we are working on. Why is like a decentralized identity and wise confidential computing and then on the third layer we can talk about. You know two's API is used.

A

It's basically like a presentation layer for the photo button you and then we can be like a you know, trusted data trust devices on the very top. So while we are, you know layering up our technologists, so we want to use UK at the first vertical to tap into and to make it everything work. Then we can do like a horizontal like a scaling yeah.

A

So that's that's pretty much about my presentation. So so here's all my information, though privacy at all right. So if you want to get in touch with me I just you know Kimmy anyway, you like okay, so I'm done and I'm open to any questions.

C

Awesome. Thank you so much for this great presentation.

C

D

Did have a question from Ricardo I'm gonna read it to you, he said so. A lot of deep learning applications use facial recognition. How do you see using this tech as part of your overall architecture? How do you guarantee the privacy and security yeah.

A

That's a very good question. We have think a lot about this one. So that's why computational computing could be something really critical to us, because you know if everything is encrypted, everything is owned by the user. Then there's nobody to make the data computable. No matter the AI, you do Big Data. There is no way right. So that's why that's why we won't do confidential computing as a very critical component here as well, and it will be able to read the encrypted data from this decentralized storage layer and to compute some insights.

A

You know, you know, you know, you know security, fetching and privacy preserving fashion, so the idea is to use like uh some enclaves. Basically intel has arm, has its technology. So it's like a very small, safe box sitting on top on top of your like hardware chip, if you trust Hardware, if you trust unity, oh yeah, definitely something like you can't! You can't do but I know this tongue sounds like you know perfect compared to you know their knowledge approved, but there are some trade-offs.

A

If you want to live their knowledge proof or if you want to multi-party computation, then that's not too practical for lots of applications. We have today right, it's heavy slow is limited, so this teehee type of style of confidential computing. Basically, you have to trust like an achieve manufacturer being away right, but still, if you trust him, if you trust an imperial, for example, you can delegate this task to their chips, so they can compute more powerful and flexible tasks.

A

C

Awesome another question from Causton is our D IDs mature for gaining private data, especially in the data loss recovery scenario? If you have a special flavor of the IDS for IO tax.

A

Yeah but like I said, the ID is actually tied to the private key. The device or the ownership has right. So if you lost your private key, then you lost your identity, but that doesn't matter you can create another D ID is spacing or cost free, so yeah I look on create as many key ideas, new ways.

A

Yeah I, don't think there is a way you know similar as find your password type of feature can be built into the ID. As of now.

C

Awesome I might be useful to go back to the the questions that you had some at risk: immunity as well for people to think about them more, but in cotton had a hand.

E

This is often thank you so much for for sharing this presentation, and it's really great to see the see the use case. Look at the very careful thoughtfulness you put into making a product that you know it is a consumer oriented thing that a lot of people are going to going to use and if they also need the a lot of people, have been kind of the mainstream mainstream world and really rooted in privacy.

E

Being the key use case where like this is like the an amazing you see is because, if web freaking at this right, then like that that's solved like one of the biggest biggest hurdles, you know private video, especially kind of security, camera footage or a home, video and so on is about the most private thing you can get, and so that kind of stuff nailing it and doing it well in web, 3 and and and having that be a success story, can really prove out tons of use cases.

E

It's also really large files and so being able to do this well requires a large amount of data. Storage requires really fast throughput in Connexions and so on. So it's these guys really like. Thank you for putting this protective storage need. I think this is really helpful for for for bidding services, because they can. They can look at this and think about growing helping you grow with this race to where you know, thinking about going from thousands of users to millions of users, it's literally doable.

E

For probably you know, single single painting services are probably in the lower terabyte range at the moment, most most, but but starting to get larger. Also, the faculty network is now you know the test that, on its own, is pushing like around five petabytes without without incentives. Once we have incentives, we'll we'll see how things things change I might my grow to be a lot larger.

E

So this is I think a really good opportunity right now for penny services to to help you get started and especially providing likes fast access and past approval, plus any kind of kind of developer, tooling and developer experience kind of kind of support and then, as as the needs scale, once you start hitting into the to the high pet advisor exercise like that's that's when things like probably become like really useful, and you start like recruiting a lot of the storage in the network, so I think a one question in around this is: do you think that, like you know, I think a lot of the these camera products tend to limit the amount of storage because because so expensive, to store and serve?

E

And so these things will automatically do your video every every seven days? I, don't know the details on how the purchasing works there. In terms of you know what are the price points at which people start storing a lot more, but I. Imagine that if we can drop the price of store significantly here, people would be storing a lot more of this of this day. It's kind of like that that uh it was like coal phenomenon or tin phenomenon, where once the price dropped significantly, a lot of people started buying a lot more of it.

E

A

I do I agree so for now right, so we have a pretty user friendly like a pricing plan here. So we can do like a seven day like a rolling store of the data is just two dollars per month for lots of people. But if you know 500 in once, its lungs can bring down this. You know to one dollar amount: maybe even have a dollar amount, so I think that's amazing. You know lots of people will just be an open brainer for lots of people.

A

E

Agree, yes, yeah, so and so for your questions. Yes, so for this one, yes, I! Think in terms of the recommended setup, I think this this gonna work really really well, you could you could go a few of these different routes.

E

I would recommend starting to work with a pinning service because they they understand I profess, really well, the thing kind of storing it kind of an in production for a while and then see kind of how that goes, and- and you know, there's a bunch of folks here here today- there were a number of crustaceans earlier, encourages you talk to a number of them and kind of evaluate the the offerings and and get a sense of like of with how whether it can meet meet your needs. Also.

E

Imagine that as we as Holcomb gets rolling, we can likely do a bunch at the archiving for for the larger amounts of data and tested out it come up as a pilot pilot pilot use case. One of the key things there is like really making sure that all the encryption stuff works extremely well, because once once it starts going into kind of the Falcon setting where there's miners all over the world- and you know you don't really know many times- you ask why you don't really know.

C

E

Are and what not all of the all the encryption use cases need to be like really really really solid, so yeah look forward to that use cases. Is this fantastic? Thank you so much for corporate presenter. Yes, yes,.

A

Thanks so much for support one yeah I. Think for this, like a very specific discussions, I will talk to talk with with product labs. We are already in talking with few of you guys. I think I have a some very specific ideas around those topics. That's that's should be a very good. You know discussion, yeah,.

E

And for the for the shareable search, I'd recommend definitely talking to textile three-box and others who are working on the kind of the threads I. Think it's a perfect use case for this.

E

There's a presentation o today around how to have these threats and hubs around singular, creating the social use case where you, where you have a number of different data pieces like the video, the comments, the the sharing and so on, and making sure that all of that is kind of encrypted, so that you know all of this is only shared with the parties that you want to. You want to show that swift and all of those data structures can move around through I, throw a fuss now.

E

What kind of to all the folks and I think for everyone attending I, think, like the speaker, BIOS and so on? Can you can reach out to two speakers? Okay,.

A

Very cool, thank you. Thank you and I do see it like that, because I guess it's become like a very open storage system. It poses new challenges to like cartography as we all right, because before that we have two layers for protection wise from system layer, basically acts also, as the people can access the file and then encryption layer.

A

For now this this layer first layer is account basically with any having Cruiser any one layer for particular data, so Hulk how we do that I think that's a challenge also to the crypto research, but that's that's. A very interesting, like I would be very happy to see the paradigm shift like ipfs and Falcone is bringing to the to the community very excited, yeah.

C

I think the closest thing that that I've seen on those lines, pinata I, think that that Ober has written a lot of good good articles about kind of private or I'm, not quite sure what he called them, because they weren't fold private networks on ipfs, but they were kind of sub sub networks or topic based networks where you have you're not using the public IP FS DHT, but you're using a a private DHT for a topic. But you published the private, the private key so that other people interested in that topic can join.

C

If you do would really want to a like a swarm. That only has kind of permission. Folks, like that, that's an interesting place to explore and I can imagine. That's the sort of sort of service that I haven't seen popping up yet in the IP of s network of like either permission gateways or kind of infra private swarms for very sensitive use cases, but the sort of thing that I could see happening more and more. That might support. You know very sensitive things like I, don't know. Private video, yeah, cool and I.

C

Think your your earlier question of should I run my own infrastructure should I use a pinning service or or maybe you had one other option there. It really depends on kind of the tooling that you can get like whether, whether you can kind of do a division of responsibilities and then get more time back to focus on the next set of tools and applications you want to build, or if you want, you know kind of the hands-on customization of of tweaking and optimizing things yourself. I bet there's a lot of people on this call.

C

Who would love to talk to you so hopefully they'll be sending lots of emails to your email and specifically about storing terabytes worth of security. Cam footage yeah.

A

Thanks Larry, we are definitely very open to work with you guys we are small, so we won't focus on the things like we want to focus on, but we definitely like when you need your help on the storage side.