Istio Technical Oversight Committee, 20 Sep 2021

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: Technical Oversight Committee 2021/09/20

Description

Istio's Technical Oversight Committee for September 20th, 2021.
Topics:
- 2022 Release Schedule review
- Updating Envoy Proxy SHA
- Review ProxyConfig API

A

Okay, what else do we have.

A

Okay, brian, take it away.

B

So might as well start with this, um I put in my two weeks notice that red hat I'm going to a company where I'm not going to be working in stones and my last day is the 24th. So thank you to everyone. It's been awesome um I'll still be on the sdslock. If you need anything or need to reach out or anything um so yeah. Thank you.

A

Okay, oh no! Thank you. um So one fairly obvious question brian is: do you want to remain on the toc.

B

um I'm going to step down from the toc.

A

I just make sure I capture that.

B

A

Oh I'm just going to capture the notes that we need to find a replacement.

B

Okay, on a related note to that, um the third bullet down is just um uh so john wendell has volunteered to be a co-lead for testing release, so the tfc approves that and we've already approved an intestinal release.

A

A

Tsc members, do we want to just vote on that.

A

I I have no objections.

C

D

E

No, since uh john has served also um release managers before right, yeah, no right pictures.

B

Yep for two releases and he's already a maintainer together.

A

Okay, thank you john, and uh you are now the one of the working group leads.

A

uh So, if folks want to can uh consider themselves as candidates for the toc, they should put a comment in the dock.

A

You could also just reach out on slack.

A

I think the probably the best place to do that is the.

A

Toc steering questions.

A

Any anyone any other suggestions about how to go back, go about listing cabinets.

A

A

All right, please schedule.

F

So this is the schedule for next year. I try to find kubecon if I uh see if there's any conflict, but I didn't see any dates for the kubecon, but this is right now the suggested dates or quarterly oops.

A

Sorry, I'm just all right.

A

See that that first slide you wanted shauna.

F

Yes, thank you again. These are the tentative dates and a video various kubecon plant. I didn't find them on the internet, so I don't know them yet. They are very much aligned with how we have this year so around the same dates, and they worked very well for us. So I wanted the approval from the toc.

A

Obviously this is retrospectively looking as opposed to forward looking.

A

You have 113 14, 15 and 16. right.

F

So q1 q2 q3 q4 next year.

F

It's forward sorry.

A

What that's right.

E

A

I'm thinking like what it's just sorry, it threw me off for a second.

F

Yeah, what are you thinking of kubernetes? I thought so too.

A

G

So, since we're doing four and they're doing three we'll eventually catch up and then we'll be okay,.

A

A

There is, there is a question to be had about switching to doing three.

A

And we might switch to doing three in 2022 if we think it makes sense.

F

Do you know you're thinking like from the quarter like the starting of 2022, so I can adjust accordingly or two.

A

No, I mean, I don't think we have a fully fleshed out thought about discount.

E

A

I mean obviously the advantage of four over three is: if we get one more month of development relative to the cost of release right, so we have to there's more engineering time. There's less time spent, you know doing planning presentations in aggregate for the year. um So you know it just shifts the relative investment into more engineering, a little less planning and a little less release execution.

A

And then there's the question of well is: do customers need more than three releases a year.

H

Dustin we we've been talking about um aligning the cve releases with envoy and there's more of a dependency there, but does it make sense to align with envoys um release cadence for this as well they're quarterly right, I don't remember if not mine.

F

They are quarterly, so I think few weeks back, I was trying to align envoy, kubernetes and us. So communities have moved to three and boy haven't, so I wasn't sure what should I suggest.

A

Right um what I don't remember, envoy's support window, how many releases back do they support.

A

Because we, we may have one release a year where we would have to upgrade the version of envoy any patch release. Basically,.

H

A

Feel like it was.

H

Went back like three releases from what I remember from when we did our cde release.

A

That's better than.

H

A

Now that we're n minus one plus six weeks.

A

Right if we went to four months, we'd be very close. Actually right, we'd be five and a half months at n minus one plus six weeks.

A

We would drift by four weeks every quarter every like yeah by four weeks. Every uh release.

A

Which might not be so bad but.

A

And we still can take a new release of envoy in a patch release if we had to.

G

I think we actually don't want to align exactly with onward we'd, rather onway come out a few weeks before, so that we can test it right and so far they are about one month shifted from this in the right direction. So historically they at least used to be kind of give or take two weeks on their release dates. But the past few ones seem to be about exactly one month before re-release, which seems good.

G

B

Was saying unless.

G

Someone from envoy knows any better. I think this sounds like a good schedule.

I

G

I

Was gonna say I know when I looked at this information when I was helping mitch with his document us sliding a few weeks would have been probably better um there when I was looking at envoy, they're they're tagged to start their release, basically the end of the quarter, and it was averaging about 15 to 18 days for them to get a release out. So they would come out about the 15th or the 18th of january, etc.

I

um And so, if we would start our branch cut either then or slightly after then, so that we weren't trying to push a envoy a new envoy after branch cut. That seemed to make more sense to me, but I did like the the staying quarterly, because envoy was quarterly, as as opposed to trying to go to kubernetes.

A

Well, yeah I mean I have. I have no problem with these dates um and I'm I'm not gonna strongly push for three releases a year unless, unless there's there's a large push within the community to do that so which it doesn't sound like there is. So this looks good to me. Shweta yep.

G

A

E

Looks good to me no objection.

D

So I I quickly have a follow-up question where, where where do we publish the tentative dates.

A

I think I don't think we actually publish them externally.

F

Yeah, I was about to say man that we haven't done it, but I think we should yeah.

D

We should yeah like it's your community or some something, that's not a presentation, so I think, like it's still community, where we have some and it's okay to put tentative there yeah. But it's it's useful for someone to search and then just see, what's expected.

F

No, I agree, I mean people reach out to me individually on slack, so I think it totally makes sense to have it out.

A

I mean we have the you know the release history page right it could. It could go within the bottom of that page saying. You know. The tentative upcoming release dates are as follows: yep, that's that's also my book does that work for you, shawna.

F

A

Okay, uh let me just capture that.

F

We may want to, I don't know, update the page by releases and upcoming releases, otherwise it will be odd to say just history and then in the bottom you have upcoming releases, let's not run out.

F

So there was one more bullet um if you want to go to the toc um and if you're done here.

A

Sorry, I'm just capturing the notes. Let me switch back over.

F

F

Okay, um so the other thing which I was really looking for is the one-pager strategy document for 2022 is way overdue. At this point,.

A

I I believe, there's a document with some chicken scratch in it, but uh I would not call it a strategy document right now, then brian, I know you guys have to do something.

G

Yeah yeah: it's an outline form. It's not it's not fleshed out yet.

A

I guess the answer then is uh answer haiti hazy harasses again next week.

F

Can we can, we just add a date for a date, so at least like I, I don't want to push every week, but at least, if I know when are we expecting to complete it.

A

I can I can take a pass this week, so let's say next next week: let's make it do.

F

Okay, thank you.

A

Thanks a lot detail, eric uh young man.

J

uh Yeah, so I put this uh last friday for uh some guidance and help from tulsi, but I think we have found the short term owner to look into this. I think taylor is looking into like fixing the outward crash uh in order to update to the highway dependency.

J

So the remaining item is probably about the long term. Do we want to have some like a rotation of prayer uh so that we don't need to wait for like a two monthses to update to the only uh dependency?

J

We have some kind of plan to update it more frequently.

J

It should be easier to fix cases and identify some like as a root cause, because two months means a lot of like on the changes and it will be harder to fix the test.

A

So is this to take on. This is not trying to take envoy from head right.

J

um I think yeah this is taking away from head, but uh uh that's what we do before we uh like uh after we finish the last release right, we updated the only time from time until it reaches like a next version.

J

I

Eric yeah, I was just basically saying exactly what john put in slack, which is what I had thrown here in the in the dock as well, is we do have a daily job which updates envoy um from head, and it's been blocked for two weeks or for two months. I've put some comments both in the pr asking for help, as well as in the networking slack work group for help.

I

um I know john has tried to point me to some people, um but that's where it's been out there we've known about it for two months. It would be good from my perspective. If, as engman is saying, we have a good point of contact so that somebody can talk to to try to get this freed up quicker.

D

Yeah, so I yeah I I agree like I think I think this this has been known it. It was just lacking an owner um and I think that you chen is well. We should we should check with him, but but he he seems like, like the the natural owner to make sure that this happens and then, of course he could get help from others, but I think we need one person and um that that could be your chain.

A

Well, I think we don't want just one person right. We want a pool of envoy people who we can reach out to when we run into issues like this, so that it can get resolved in a timely fashion.

A

D

Agree but but I think that having like one person responsible.

D

Would be better than like trying to ping several, but but I I I mean I get your point having a pool of people who can help absolutely true.

A

So, who who currently are the list of envoy experts we have in the community other than you, chen and and now taylor are ramping up.

D

Lausanne is there I, I haven't.

A

I think this is something we might need to think about.

D

A

H

A

G

Drama, probably.

D

Yeah runway as well correct, okay,.

A

Well, the bottom list, um but is it uchen- is the has the most expertise by? Is that what we think.

D

So I think we then need to work out who, who, whose responsibility it is as well. Okay,.

A

So this is part of the networking working groups area of ownership.

A

Stephen, is this something you can take up and figure out.

K

A

Can you help out help steven out with that yeah yeah, okay,.

A

Okay, but we are currently working on resolving this right, yes, yeah, so.

D

Like like the comment says, taylor is actively like looking at it and youtube will help okay.

A

And then sam, you want someone to review the proxy config api.

K

Yeah, that's that's pretty much it um pr has been out for like a month. uh I think john and niraj and costume have looked at it, but I just wanted to bring it to tlc um to review either offline or, however,.

A

Yeah, no, that seems pretty important.

A

Brian, you wanna give us a parking gift and uh take a look at this, for you.

I

Yeah, I can do that yeah, okay,.

A

Okay, thanks son uh yeah. We should we obviously that's a pretty significant api for the next release, so we want to get that done. Actually on that topic.

A

Are there other important api reviews right, I'm expecting to see maybe the wasm api and maybe refinements the telemetry api? Is that something we should.

D

Be seeing so so so wasm api is, it is actually kind of on the implementation side. Now there is no. There will be a peer review on the telemetry side. Yes, that that that are expected to be more um more prs for api review yeah. Thank you.

A

So we don't think we're going to need any api changes, so there wasn't stuff, at least at least no.

D

Okay, at least until we get more feedback now yeah are there other apis, so there is potentially some more movement on the rate limit api. Oh yeah, yeah.

A

A

John anything to say about the gateway api.

G

uh There is one big change which is the like: automatically creating the deployment and service from the gateway. uh Well, there's been many big changes on the gateway api side right.

B

G

Revision, but that's not really a source of uh must controversy in east geos very beneficial for us, but there has been some discussion on uh if we should do it, which I think we should where it should live that sort of thing that we should probably resolve. So we can get it merged in and start testing out pretty soon.

A

uh So there, I guess, there's uh gateway semantics with auto, deploy right.

G

A

Any any others that people have.

A

There's nothing in the security side.

A

Young man is there anything you're aware of. There was uh the job routing stuff, correct.

J

Yep, probably I will need to look into the pr.

H

And I think, there's a plan to stabilize some of the or move up the security apis. But it's unclear whether they're going to be any api changes required for that.

A

Yeah, hopefully not because it's a lot easier. If we don't have to that's right.

A

I think okay uh well yeah, let's, uh when is the freeze date for 112?

A

Do you remember off the top of your head.

E

On october, something.

A

Go ahead, custom.

C

Yeah so one thing we discussed in security recently in the context of the new gateway api, which has a different mechanism to attach policies and to to work with other uh configs. We may need to revisit how you know security and probably other api is attached to you know. I know we have workload selector, but that may not be ideal because it doesn't work well for some cases it is sometimes it isn't, but we need to figure out how we harmonize uh the two apis.

A

Yes, I think we well. We certainly need to write. You know, here's how you do it before. Here's, how you do it after kind of examples, and then we can make some decisions about attachment.

C

In particular, since since we no longer select gateways by workload by selected by service and anyway, that's that's an important important thing.

D

A

um Right so there's some tie in with canonical service.

C

As well- yes, that's another yes, okay,.

A

um Okay folks, so obviously we want to get the ap any api changes done by feature freeze, if possible,.

A

Well, apis are features so if they're not done by that point right, then we need exceptions.

F

We're going to have difficulty with the testing because it starts 19th october.

A

Okay, difficulty with testing is an amorphous way to describe your problem. um Yes, I mean certainly bug bashes and things like that or manual. Testing of the api would be problematic um anyway. Just a reminder for folks and uh yeah, please ping the toc.

A

If you need to get reviews out of the way uh is there anything else, people want to talk about, otherwise we can reclaim 25 glorious minutes.

A

Nope, well, I guess with that. uh I just want to say thanks to brian, for everything he's done for the project. I'm glad he's still going to be hanging out on slack. uh It's certainly been a pleasure working with you, brian and uh he's done amazing things for istio, and uh I hope your next adventure is just as exciting.

H

Thank you have fun. Thank you, brian very much. I appreciate all the all the work, sorry to see.

E

You thank you. Thank you, ryan, for being the best for these managers yeah. Thank you so much brian. We will miss you a lot.

B

Thanks, it's been fun I'll, be in slack.

A

Cool all right, well, uh thanks everyone uh and have a great week, see you next monday.

E

Thanks everyone.

A

Bye. Thank you.

A