►
From YouTube: Jakarta EE Community Call | 2019-06-12
Description
The Jakarta EE Community call is a monthly meetup via Zoom that drives community conversation and provides a space for participants to ask questions on topics of interest in an Ask Me Anything (AMA) format.
// AGENDA
1) Jakarta EE 8 release
- High-level overview of the progress and plans (Ed Bratt/ Dmitry Kornilov )
- PMC / Projects Update (Ivar Grimstad)
- Progress on specification name changes/specification scope definitions
- Call for action for the community - copyright license agreements (Wayne Beaton)
- TCK process update (Scott Stark )
- Update re. transitioning from javax namespace to the Jakarta namespace (David Blevins)
- Summary of input from the community
- Summary of 2019 developer survey (Mike DeNicola)
- EclipseCon Europe - Call for Papers & Community Day (Paul White)
- Open discussion and questions
/// JOIN THE CALL
To join the next community call click the link to add it to your calendar: https://calendar.google.com/calendar/embed?src=eclipse-foundation.org_3281qms6riu4kdf354jn5idon0%40group.calendar.google.com&ctz=America%2FNew_York
//// GET SOCIAL!
Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/user/EclipseFdn
Follow us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/JakartaEE
Like us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/JakartaEE/
Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/groups/13597...
Tag us: #JakartaEE
A
Okay,
so
we're
at
the
top
of
the
hour,
so
I
suggest
we
slowly
get
into
the
coal,
so
everyone
out
there.
Thank
you
for
joining
this
is
the
June
update,
call
for
Jakarta
enthusiasts
we're
to
have
you
on
the
call
and,
as
always,
we
will
place
the
recording
and
all
the
materials
that
were
using
on
this
call
at
the
community
folder
and
yeah
we're
ready
to
to
go
ahead
and
start.
A
A
B
Seems
to
be
off
the
bottom
there,
but
okay,
so
I
just
wanted
to
give
a
quick
overview
about
the
high-level
goals
for
this
jacquard
ee8
release.
It's
not
my
intent
to
undersell
this
I'm.
Just
trying
to
give
everybody
a
you
know
a
feel
for
what
what
it
is
we're
actually
delivering,
and
what
are
the
tasks
that
you
know
the
top
level
things
that
we're
working
on?
B
B
We'll
release
those
two
am
a
tweet
when
we
released
the
the
Eclipse
GlassFish
5.1,
so
eclipse,
GlassFish
5.1
was
tested
and
E
as
sort
of
as
listed
as
a
certified,
compatible
Java
EE
eight
application
server
and
we're
basically
going
to
use
that
as
the
sort
of
the
keystone
for
a
a
confirmation
that
all
of
the
TCK
is
all
the
rest
of
the
material
that
would
verify
compliance
is
identical
to
what
we
had
in
Java,
EE
8,
but
contributed
licensed
and
approved
and
ratified.
I.
B
Then,
then,
all
of
the
new
Jaccard
EE
specifications,
the
specification
process,
the
TCK
requirements,
etcetera.
So
in
some
ways,
if
you
think
about
this
in
terms
of
its
functionality,
so
it's
really
just
a
licensing,
change,
licensing
and
branding,
and
it
said
effectively
that
will
complete
all
of
the
all
of
the
contribution
and
at
least
from
well.
It
should
complete
all
the
contributions
for
Java,
EE
8
and
the
Willum
will
be
able
to
sort
of
leapfrog
off
that
and
move
firmly
and
rapidly
into
a
the
delivery
of.
B
You
know
the
next
next
functional
updates
for
Jakarta
e8,
so
each
specification
will
be
ratified
by
the
jacquard
ee8.
The
char
de
processes,
the
specifications
themselves-
probably
many
of
you
know
this
there'll-
be
a
specification
document,
an
API
release,
a
TCK,
and
then
we
will
verify
that
everything
tests
out
and
meets
the
compatibility
requirements
for
the
Jakarta
release
process.
B
For
those
of
you
who
don't
know
you
know
will
be,
there
are
sort
of
two
guiding
documents
that
will
be
following.
There's
the
Eclipse
Foundation
specification
process.
You
might
see
that
abbreviated
EF
SP
from
time
to
time
and
then
Wayne's
Act
we
written
up
a
blog.
That
says
you
know
it's
sort
of
a
RiRi
at
rewrites
that
in
a
you
know,
what
does
this
mean
to
me
and
a
step-by-step?
You
know
process
so
and
then
the
last
then
building
on
that.
B
C
C
C
C
C
C
B
C
B
Me
too
horrible
concussions,
free,
artiste,
first
Jakarta,
really
there
will
back
to
block
and
the
work
is
a
his
name.
You
know
and
new
potential
to
be
with
Burke
we're
trialing
through
lease
process.
There,
the
specification
is
ballot
being
for
their
I,
I,
think
they're
sitting
reviews
so
the
weekend
the
create
occasions
are
part
of
Java
will
be,
will
be
released
and
ready
to
go.
B
B
What's
in
the
TCK,
the
TCK
itself,
collection
of
documentation
exclude
lists,
and
you
know-
and
basically
this
is
originally.
This
was
a
standalone
I
guess
required
part
of
each
API,
but
most
of
us
didn't
get
to
look
at
those
because
they
were
licensed
by
Oracle
now
they're
available,
open
source,
the
tzk
project
is
open
source
and
all
the
TCK
jobs
are
currently
well
most
of
the
tzk
jobs
are
currently
combined
in
ace.
You
know
in
Eclipse,
Eclipse
operated,
Jenkins
server.
So
there's
a
lot
of
information
here.
B
B
B
So
just
some
quick
questions
that
I
came
up
with
right,
so
we
are
using
the
same
TCC
case
to
we're
using
these
jacquard
ET
CK's
to
validate
that
all
of
the
released
API
jars
are
are
proven
with
that
were
proven
to
be
a
compatible
couple
of
questions
that
have
come
up
can
components
generate
an
update.
Release
in
this
in
this
engine
are
d8
as
long
as
they
still
pass
the
the
jacquard,
e8t,
CK's
and
or
cts.
That's
fine
people
have
asked
if
there's
going
to
be
a
new
GlassFish
release,
I,
don't
think.
B
Currently
the
GlassFish
team
has
some
has
put
up
to
put
together
a
plan
for
that.
If
it
decides
to
do
that,
we
could
release
any
new
GlassFish,
but
that's
not
a
must-have
for
this
particular
project.
So
essentially,
if
project
teams
want
to
make
releases,
we
can
try
to
accommodate
that
in
the
relief
schedule.
But
our
goal
is
verify
the
tcks
work
verifies
the
tcks
pass,
what
they
you
know
in
the
same
way
that
they
have
before
well.
Sometimes
people
will
ask:
how
can
I
help
there's
a
lot
of
ways
we
can?
B
We
could
use
you
know
we
could
use
community
help,
there's
a
lot
of
text
that
needs
to
be
updated
for
things
like
switching
over
from
how
to
you
know
how
did
Oracle
provide
support
to?
How
are
we
going?
You
know
what
should
anybody
who
wants
to
use
it
any
of
the
tcks
or
any
any
of
the
binary
material?
How
are
they
going
to
get
support?
B
Switching
over
of
things
to
point
to
the
jacquard
EEE
branded
documents
or
the
required
documents,
you
can
just
join
star
the
github
projects
and
watch
them
if
you,
if
you're
interested
and
jump
in
and
provide
feedback,
I
think
a
lot
of
people
tend
to
think.
Oh
I'm,
not
a
developer.
I
can't
you
know,
I
can't
really
help
them,
but
if
you're
interested,
if
you've
got
time,
we're
ready
to
sign
you
up.
So
that's
it
for
the
sort
of
the
summary
of
this,
but
I
did
want
to
talk
a
little.
C
C
D
Through
this,
oh
it's
great,
this
is
little
plate.
It
up
Jeff
create
a
little
cup.
The
ee8
must
be
released
before
check
out
the
live
stream,
which
is
10th
of
September
and
definitely
before
Oracle
hold
on.
So
we
have
two
main
reboots
here.
We
have
creation
renews
for
the
project
and
we
have
final
release
video
which
takes
a
lot
of
time
which
takes
a
month.
We
skipped
actually
all
of
the
reviews,
because
if
we
had
reviews,
then
we
won't
fit
into
time.
D
We
have
reviews
a
marked
orange
on
on
the
spreadsheet,
so
the
current
date
is
today
is
twelve
of
June
right.
It's
highlighted
smart
here,
so
we
are
at
the
middle
of
basically.
The
second
batch
of
creation
reviews
should
start
today
and
we
will
have
another
big
to
complete
creation
of
restructuring
review
in
order
to
create
specification
project.
D
The
second
task
nonce
next
task
is
created
based
specification
documents.
We
can
start
doing
that
then
specification
projects
actually
created
and
we
have
freebies
for
that.
These
supposed
to
be
not
really
complicated
tasks,
and
hopefully
it
will
be
completed
on
time.
At
the
same
time,
we
should
start
on
baking,
Java
Docs,
update,
Java
Docs
includes
removing
all
DCP
stuff
from
readme
files
and
Java
Docs
and
put
in
correct
information
about
the
clips
just
there
and
changing
links
and
this
kind
of
stuff.
D
D
It
means
that
each
project
has
to
create
a
Jenkins
job
which
runs
standalone
TC
case
for
this
particular
api's.
We
need
to
make
sure
that
updated
API,
then
we're
not
going
to
be
binary.
Updates
that
are
going
to
be
Java.
Doc's
need
be
hundreds,
but
anyway
we
need
some
confirmation
that
it
passes
the
new
TC
case,
and
this
task
can
be
a
little
bit
complicated.
We
were
working
with
my
folks
to
make
a
special,
not
a
special
one
drop
which
can
be
used
as
a
template
for
other
projects.
D
C
B
The
crucial
dates
are,
we
will
have
release
candidate
tcks
available
the
week
of
the
15th
of
July
and
then
our
the
the
next
crucial
deadline
is.
We
want
to
have
all
the
specifications
on
ballot
or
starting
their
ballot
the
week
of
the
July
22nd,
that's
to
accommodate
the
30-day
ballot
review
period,
and
then
that
gives
us
effectively
a
week
to
get
everything
buttoned
up
before
the
week
of
the
10th
right.
C
B
So
those
are
those
are
the
dates.
We've
been
circulating
this
at
the
through
the
committee's,
but
you
know
we
wanted
to
let
the
yep
thanks
Tanya
we
wanted
to
let
the
community
know
that
those
are
the
dates.
We're
working
on
Demetri
I
think
we
were
getting
a
hook,
you
wanna
is
there
anything
else?
You
wanted
to
say
no.
B
D
A
C
E
As
you
see
it's
only
a
couple
of
project
lists
that
we
need
to
find
mice
on
the
name.
So
if
anybody
has
any
inputs
or
any
strong
opinions
about
the
names
just
comment
on
these
issues
for
the
scope
statements
that
we
need
for
Shikari
a
is
a
little
bit
the
status
terrorism,
just
as
good
so
I
think
this
is
pretty
accurate.
E
E
As
soon
as
the
names
and
the
scope
statements
are
are
ready
and
approved
by
a
committee,
we
are
initiating
the
restructuring
reviews
and,
as
you
see,
we've
started
the
review
of
five
of
these
projects.
So
as
soon
as
we
get
the
names
over
and
we
can
batch
this
through
the
the
process,
we
will
be
getting
all
this
fixed
projects
up
and
running.
E
F
Great,
so
I
thought
I
would
just
kind
of
actually
a
lot
of
what
ed
said
and
a
little
bit
of
what
the
Ivar
said
is
actually
in
here,
but
I
figured
I
would
go
through
it
quickly
anyway,
our
next
step.
What
we're
working
on
right
now
is
to
take
all
of
these
eclipse
project
for
projects
that
we
pre.
We
created
these
projects
all
contain
things
like
tcks
and
api's,
and
and
in
a
couple
of
cases,
implementations
of
specifications.
F
None
of
them
actually
include
specification
documents
presently.
So
what
we're
going
to
do
is
we're
gonna.
Take
these
Eclipse
projects,
we're
going
to
take
the
new
name
and
the
new
scope
that
statement
that
Ivar
just
spoke
about
we're
gonna
run
it
through
the
release
restrike
forming
a
restructuring
review
which
I've
represented
I
think
rather
cleverly
as
a
transmogrifier
I'm,
hoping
people
get
the
reference
and
then
magically.
F
We
wind
up
with
a
specification
project
at
the
end
of
this
restructuring
review,
there's
a
little
bit
of
work
for
me
to
do
here
in
terms
of
updating
project,
metadata,
updating
the
the
nature
of
these
projects
and
making
sure
that
we
have
everything
set
up
properly
for
specification
projects,
but
basically
it's
a
kind
of
a
magical
event.
That
trends
transforms
these
projects
into
the
right
state.
F
Now,
as
Ivar
pointed
out,
we
do
have
a
github
board
set
up
to
to
track
the
work
that's
being
done
here
and
as
I
gather
the
information
or
as
I
see
that
the
information
is
available
from
the
the
project
teams
regarding
project
names
and
scopes,
I'm,
creating
an
issue
issue
in
this
board
and
that
issue
is
being
created
in
the
in
a
github
repository
that
belongs
to
the
project.
So,
for
example,
I
will
create
a
an
issue
regarding
converting
the
platform
jacquard
ee
platform
project
in
the
Jakarta
EE
platforms,
git
repository
now.
F
So,
basically,
we're
going
to
take
all
of
these
projects
and
we're
going
to
convert
them
into
specification
projects
and
I
thought
I'd.
Just
give
a
couple
of
examples
of
what
this
will
how
this
will
manifest.
What
we
have
now,
for
example,
is
the
Eclipse
project
for
servlet
will
become
Jakarta
servlet
the
vacation
documents
themselves,
which
is
what
Kenya
actually
asked
me
to
speak
about
right
now.
The
specification
documents
associated
with
all
of
these
specifications
are
under
age.
F
Acp
license
there's
a
variety
of
different
licenses,
but
basically
they
are
not
under
licenses
that
we
can
use
in
an
open
source
specification
development
context.
An
additional
wrinkle
is
that,
while
they're
there
they're
under
this
license,
they
are
also,
in
many
cases,
potentially
owned
by
a
variety
of
copyright
holders.
Essentially,
anybody
who
was
on
an
expert
group
associated
with
a
specification
jsr
could
potentially
own
copyright
in
these
documents
and
in
order
to
change
a
license
into
a
form
that
we
can
use,
we
need
their
input
their
permission
to
do
so.
F
So,
with
this
in
mind,
we
have
created
a
an
agreement
to
and
have
started
a
process
of,
sending
this
agreement
out
to
the
people
who
we
believe
might
hold
an
interest
in
these
specification
documents.
If
you
have
received
one
of
these,
it
would
be
very
helpful
to
us
and
the
entire
community
that's
forming
around
Jakarta
EE
that
you
sign
this
and
return
it
to
the
Eclipse
Foundation.
F
So
I'm
just
going
to
repeat
myself,
the
ask
is,
if
you
receive
a
request
for
this,
could
you
please
respond?
If
you
have
any
questions
or
concerns,
please
make
those
known:
we've
had
a
few
people
ask
some
really
interesting
questions
which
I'm
going
to
move
into
an
FAQ
because
they're
great
questions,
if
you're
not
sure,
please
ask
and
we're
happy
to
help
you
work
through
this.
F
So
once
I
have
all
of
that
copyright
holder
approval,
we
can't
a
the
specification
documents,
source
form
which
thank
you
very
much
to
our
good
friends
over
at
Oracle.
They
have
taken
all
of
the
specification
documents
that
that
they
have
they
had
in
their
possession
and
converted
them
from
various
formats,
including
framemaker
and
and
tech
and
Microsoft
Word
and
all
sorts
of
different
formats,
and
have
converted
them
into
ASCII
docx
format.
F
Most
of
our
projects
are
EPL
2.0,
some
of
them
use
I
think
there's
a
couple
of
using
apache
2
but
anyway,
so
it's
basically
go
from
existing
license
to
project
licenses.
What
I
intend
here
once
we
have
these
specifications
in
the
repository
transferred
over
to
the
project
teams,
we're
going
to
ask
those
project
teams
to
engage
to
update
these
specification
documents
to
replace
uses
of
trademark
names
that
were
not
we're
not
going
to.
We
have
to
be
very
mindful
of
other
people's
Mark's.
F
At
this
point
we
require
that
the
project
teams
not
made
substantial
changes.
The
Jakarta
ee8
specifications
need
to
be
function,
ordinated
made
to
be
in
parity
with
the
the
Jakarta
or
sorry,
the
Java
EE
8
specifications.
So
no
changes
to
the
specifications
please
just
kind
of
again
work
out
the
formatting
and
the
trademark
issues.
Please,
and
we
will
again
continue
to
work
with
the
project
teams
to
ensure
that
this
happens
as
smoothly
as
possible.
F
There
will
be
one
final
transmogrification
at
the
end
once
we're
all
done
and
we
have
specifications
and
we
have
specification
documents.
All
of
the
projects
will
engage
in
release
review
with
this
release
review.
The
specification
document
will
change
its
license
to
the
Eclipse
Foundation
specification
license,
and
it
is
the
version
of
this
document
that
is
distributed
under
the
Eclipse
Foundation
specification
license
that
vendors
will
use
to
create
their
implementations
and
I.
Just
this
is
a
picture
I've
I've
displayed
before
you
know.
F
The
final
specification
is
the
composition
of
all
of
these
different
artifacts,
a
specification
document
under
the
specification
license,
the
TCK
will
also
transmogrify
and
there
will
be
an
eclipse
foundation.
Tck
licensed
version
of
the
TIA,
of
that
the
technical
artifacts
would
be
API
generally
and
then
some
number
of
one
or
more
compatible
implementations
will
be
referenced
as
part
of
that
final
specification
and
with
that
I
believe
I've
come
under
the
ten
minutes
allocated
to
me
and
I
turn
it
back
over
to
you.
Thank
you
so
much
thanks.
A
For
you,
I
just
put
in
the
chat
and
I
will
say
it
out
loud.
The
questions
are
welcome
in
the
chat
we
just
have
tons
of
material
to
cover
and
we
want
to
make
sure
we
get
through
it
so,
but
we
also
get
to
your
questions
either
at
the
end
on
or
we
will
follow
up
later
on.
So
next
we
have
Scott
Starck
to
talk
to
us
about
the
TCP
process
and
update
on
that
front.
Scott.
Are
you
around
yep.
C
G
G
We
also
define
the
mechanism
by
which
a
TCK
is
ratified.
May
he
made
approved
via
the
specification
committee
and
then
have
the
EFT
el
binary,
signed
and
promoted
to
the
Dakota
EE
website
that
issue
that
bugzilla
issue
that
M
reference.
There
is
the
current
issue
that
we
hope
have
open
with
the
webmaster
on
how
exactly
that
process
is
going
to
be
done
for
the
TCK
processes.
So
next,
like
Tonya.
G
We
defined
the
TCK
challenge
process
whereby
someone
can
an
implementer
can
challenge
a
test
using
the
issue
tracker
for
the
specification
project.
We
define
the
an
equivalent
process
via
which
an
implementation
can
come
and
claim
compatibility
and
then
gain
access
to
the
branding,
rights
and
promotion
via
the
website.
Then
we
defined
an
escalation
process
for
Appeals
and
grievances.
So
if
there's
any
issues
with
the
handling
of
a
TCK
challenge-
or
you
know
any
any
aspect
of
the
TCK
process
or
compatibility
testing
how
you
handle
that's
been
defined
and,
lastly,.
D
G
Like
please
the
last
two
points
that
are
under
discussion,
but
aren't
necessarily
gaming
factors
for
blocking
the
upcoming
to
credit.
You
eight
really
saw
her
defining
what
the
requirements
are
around.
How
compatible
products
need
to
be
kept
in
sync
with
TCK
releases
as
well
as
how
do
we
add
tests
throughout
the
lifecycle
of
a
TCK,
for
example,
to
improve
coverage
without
necessarily
imposing
an
additional
burden
on
implementers
relative
to
non
update
of
the
specification?
So
that's
that's
where
we
are,
as
of
today.
C
G
It's
it's
in
a
Google
Doc,
so
I'm
not
sure
it's
probably
only
available
the
specification.
Can
we
get
this
point?
Okay,
the
component
that
affects
the
TCK
user
guide
in
the
various
projects
we'll
be
rolling
out
to
those
as
soon
as
we
ratify
that
which
should
be
within
the
next
couple
of
weeks
and
then
obviously
producing
a
PDF
for
that
as
well.
Okay,.
C
And
if
I
wanted
to
know
about
the
timelines,
do
you
think
that
specification
committee
will
send
to
the
community?
Not
the
working
group
to
the
community
forum
and
update
with
you
know,
potential
deadlines,
I.
Think
a
level
of
transparency
on
the
process,
as
you
have
specified
without
providing
dates,
might
be
helpful
to
bring
those
who
want
to
contribute
your
code
and
maintenance
to
be
formed
and
participates
via
peer
review
and
everything
else
that
goes
into
TCK
waters.
A
C
C
A
H
This
is
Paul
sorry
I
jumped
in,
but
just
so
everyone
on
the
call
understands.
We
understand,
there's
a
lot
coming
here
from
as
a
from
a
firehose
the
fact
that
we
only
have
an
hour-
and
we
want
to
touch
each
of
these
topics,
because
we
think
each
of
the
topics
is
important
to
the
community.
We
understand
there's
through
the
many
questions
related
to
each
of
these,
and
so
hopefully
what
will
happen
is
the
questions
are
either
on
the
chat
or
perhaps
even
better
afterwards.
H
C
C
I
I
That's
it.
Thank
you.
So,
at
any
rate,
the
top
three
community
priorities
for
Jakarta
Yi
turn
out
to
be
better
support
for
micro
services
native
integration
with
Ruben.
It's
both
I
was
actually
tied
as
being
the
number
one
with
61%
stating
them
as
the
priority,
and
then
the
product
quality
reference,
implementation
and
37%,
which
is
actually
quite
a
bit
below
that.
I
The
native
cloud
native
is
critically
important.
Today,
32%
of
the
developers
are
currently
building
cloud
native
architectures
and
in
Earth
and
another
30%
plant
to
do
so
within
the
next
12
months.
The
number
of
java
applications
running
in
the
cloud
is
projected
to
increase
significantly
over
the
next
two
years
and
with
more
than
60
percent
of
java
applications
in
the
cloud
in
two
years.
I
Micro-Services
is
the
leading
architecture
for
implementing
java
systems
in
the
cloud
with
43
percent
of
the
respondents,
citing
that
is
their
choice
of
architecture
java,
ee
8
adoption
has
picked
up
and
it
currently
stands
at
37
percent,
which
is
up
quite
a
bit
from
last
year.
When
we
did
the
survey
in
2018,
it
was
only
21
percent.
I
Java
EE
7
is
44
percent.
Is
the
version
most
deployed
in
production?
I
can't
see
the
bottom
of
this
okay
I
got
it
with
with
Johnny
six
coming
in
third
Java
11
uses
it
surged,
and
it
looks
as
though
people
are
leapfrogging
Java,
nine
and
ten,
while
Java
8
adoption
has
remained
steady
at
about
84
percent
spring
and
spring
boot
continued
to
dominate
as
the
leading
framework
for
building
cloud
native
applications.
I
I
I
I
The
financial
services
and
education
56%
of
the
the
respondents
surveyed
are
located
in
Europe
by
Europe.
It's
actually
a
Mia
Europe
Middle
East
and
Africa
18%
were
from
the
asia-pacific
13%
we're
from
North
America
and
13%
from
the
Caribbean
and
Latin
America.
So
that's
not
surprising,
since
Europe
is
the
Europeans
I
think
leading
the
way
in
terms
of
enterprise
Java.
I
A
I
Just
let
me
just
add
one
thing:
I
meant
to
do
this,
but
Mike
I
want
to
quote
Mike
Milankovitch,
who
said
what's
most
interesting
is
to
see
the
acceleration
and
the
adoption
of
java
in
new
cloud
native
architecture
which
clearly
clearly
the
future
of
Jakarta
EE
is
cloud
native,
and
that
was
a
quote
from
Mike
malinka
there's.
None
on
this
call.
J
A
J
That's
what
I
figured
we
have
another
topic
after
this
right,
so
let's
leave
room
for
that.
Okay,
so
this
is
just
a
high-level
summary
of
where
we
had
we
had
over
300
plus
emails
in
response
to
the
call
to
join
the
discussion,
which
is
great.
The
list
subscription
on
the
jacquard
ee
platform.
Dev
is
in
the
hundreds
now
when
it
like
50
before
we
started,
and
so
that's
just
an
amazing
start
to
our
community.
J
This
issue,
even
though
it's
very
tricky,
has
done
a
great
job
of
seating,
the
Jakarta
dev
list
with
participants,
which
is
what
we
need
ultimately
in
the
long
term.
So
that's
a
very
good
thing
in
terms
of
where
we're
at
I
would
say
in
the
community,
there's
a
slight
lean
towards
BIGBANG,
maybe
even
a
strong
lead.
J
There's
in
the
steering
kuta
news
specification
committee
that
still
a
split
and
some
people
are
not
necessarily
some
people
are
confident
and
some
people
want
more
data,
and
so
ultimately
you
know
we
established
a
deadline
of
June
9th,
and
that
was
really
just
for
okay.
We
need
a
month
of
open
conversation,
but
we
can
figure
out
what
is
the
next
step,
and
so
at
this
moment
the
next
step
is
basically
going
to
be
to
collect
more
data
around
a
couple
specific
points.
J
So
the
the
the
two
primary
areas
where
we
want
to
collect
the
data
and
the
first
one
being
most
important
is
want
to
do
some
prototyping
around
compatibility
to
prove
up
these
tools
to
see
what
they
can
do.
We
also
want
to
do
some
work
to
analyze
the
dependency
graphs
between
different
specifications.
So
here's
why
these
are
really
really
important.
J
One
prototype
and
compatibility,
BIGBANG
or
incremental
are
completely
impossible
proposals
without
the
compatibility
being
proven.
We
knew
that
going
into
the
proposals,
but
that
still
seems
to
be
a
comfort
factor
for
people
who
are
voting
or
leaning
towards
an
incremental
side
of
the
fence
that
if
the
tools
were
proving
to
be
stronger,
their
appetite
for
being
more
aggressive
would
be
higher
and
so
I
think
the
thing
one
of
the
major
things
preventing
kind
of
a
unanimous
decision
is
proving
out
these
compatibility
capabilities.
J
When
we
look
at
the
timeline
of
when
we
can
do
this,
we
don't
think
it's
soon
and
so
spending
some
time
working
on
the
compatibility
at
this
moment
is
probably
the
smartest
thing
that
we
can
do
for
our
industry.
At
the
moment,
your
work
is
encouraged.
There
I'll
show
you
how
you
can
help
or
talk
about
how
to
basically
come
to
the
jacquard
e-platform
project,
we're
not
doing
to
be
able
to
work
in
that
project,
but
we
do
want
to
enable
that,
via
that
project,
the
other
one
is
an
ad
analyzing
the
dependencies.
J
I
did
a
big
push
on
that
last
night
and
I'll
really
like
to
show
you
some
of
that
early
data,
but
ultimately,
what
we
need
to
figure
out
is
if
we
changed
the
most
popular
specs,
say:
CDI
jax-rs,
you
know
being
validation
these
types
of
things.
What
is
the
downstream
effect
of,
though,
of
that
change,
and
so,
if
you
want
to
take
a
screenshot,
this
is
the
one
to
take
a
screenshot
of
because
it
has
the
link
to
the
github
URL.
So
please
do
record
that
URL.
J
So
you
can
join
the
conversation
there,
because,
ultimately,
what
we're
trying
to
do
is
curate
as
much
data
as
we
possibly
can,
because
you
know
no
human
can
summarize
300
plus
emails
eloquently
right.
That
would
be
a
several
hour
presentation
so
effectively.
We're
trying
to
do
is
get
very,
very
data-driven.
So,
some
days
after
we
started
the
conversation
in
the
public,
we
started
collecting
day
here
in
the
jacquard
ee
platform
github
project,
all
of
it
is
in
the
subdirectory
namespace
and
I
want
to
point
on
a
couple
key
documents.
J
One
is
there's
been
a
lot
of
fun
or
just
you
know,
misinformation
that
all
Java
X
is
affected.
It
is
not,
and
so
this
is
a
curated
list
of
Java
X
packages
which
are
in
Java
SE
and
absolutely
not
effective.
So
the
Java
SE
team
has
taken
a
look
at
this
list
for
accuracy.
It's
had
several
eyes
on
it,
it's
been
curated
and
you
can
rely
on
it.
Okay,
so
these
packages
are
absolutely
not
effective.
All
right
now
in
terms
of
this
is
the
code
that
is
actually
under
the
umbrella
of
jacquard
EEE.
J
These
are
the
classes
that
are
affected,
so
if
this
is
a
text
file,
so
if
you'd
like
to
start
writing
tooling,
to
take
a
look
at
these
classes,
you
can
do
so.
So
this
is
a
curated
list
of
classes
which
do
which
are
effects.
This
is
not
even
generic
like
package.
This
is
the
full
list
of
classes.
So
this
is
the
scope
of
our
of
what
we're
worried
about
and
no
no
greater
than
this
list.
J
Okay,
the
most
important
thing
at
this
moment,
though,
is
you
know
or
not
the
most
important
things,
so
the
dependencies
between
these
two
various
projects
is
an
important
factor
that
I
mentioned.
So
we
have
begun
to
start
curating
data
here
we
do
need
more
eyes
and
ears
and
and
and
brains
and
hands
on
this
data
and
to
help
collect
data.
J
So
last
night
I
went
ahead
and
did
the
hard
work
of
basically
writing
a
tool
that
used
SM
to
parse
all
the
bytecode
of
all
the
classes
under
our
control
and
do
just
basically
a
dump,
a
JSON
dump
of
each
class
and
its
dependencies
right
miss
if
I
can
find
one
that
has
something
right.
So
here
we
go
Java
eggs,
batch
property,
references,
Enterprise,
non-binding,
that's
a
CDI
class
okay,
so
we
need
help
basically
figuring
out
if
we
were
to
change,
say
CDI,
one
of
the
specs
that
are
affected
immediately
and
transitively.
J
J
But
the
reason
for
that
is,
some
of
them
contain
pride
dependencies
which
are
not
should
not
be
in
that
jar.
For
example,
the
EJB
jar
contains
jax-ws
dependencies,
and
so
it's
these
things
need
to
be
cleaned
up.
But
please
do
take
a
look
at
this
particular
document.
Look
at
the
documents
associated
with
that
help
create
some
tools
to
do
some
analysis
on
what
exact
scope
of
changes
and
help
us
figure
out.
What
is
the
actual
Delta
between
the
incremental
and
BIGBANG?
J
Also,
if
you
have
any
compatibility
tools
that
you're
working
on
or
like
to
start
come
here,
do
a
PR
to
this
document
and
simply
list
your
tool.
We
need
like
twelve
on
this
page,
and
so
you
know
we
I'm
gonna,
see
the
time,
but
I
would
just
basically
say
at
this
stage.
We
want
many
projects,
doing
attempts
at
compatible
backwards,
compatibility
in
terms
of
bytecode,
upgrading
and
so
on
so
forth,
and
then
will
consolidate
onto
one
or
two
once
they've
given
themselves.
So
this
is
a
most
specific
way.
J
A
J
H
Stuff
thanks
David
thanks
everyone,
so,
as
Tonya
said,
I'm,
Paul,
white
and
one
of
the
things
that
I
have
the
pleasure
of
doing
is
overseeing
eclipse
con,
York
and
and
I
wanted
to
call
this
out
for
the
community.
We
participate
and
run
into
each
other
at
a
lot
of
events
right
around
the
globe,
be
a
dev
ox
or
or
whatever,
and
those
are
great
places
for
us
to
well
attend
meet
folks
who
are
using
this
and
whatnot
the
Eclipse.
H
Con
Europe
is
a
place
where
we
come
together,
as
as
our
own,
in
this
case
Jakarta
community,
and
it's
an
opportunity
to
work
on
things
that
matter
to
share
ideas
and
to
make
sure
that
we
are
advancing
the
community.
So
this
is.
This
is
the
one
time
of
year
where
we
get
together
as
the
as
the
Jakarta
community
as
part
of
the
Eclipse
community.
So
there
is
a
dedicated
track
for
cloud
native
Java,
which
is
is
all
about
Jakarta,
ee
micro
profile
and
and
all
of
the
other
related
technologies.
H
And
so
we
strongly
encourage
everyone
to
present
to
participate
first
and
foremost
by
submitting
a
talk
right.
So
the
deadline,
the
early
bird
deadline
for
this
is
June
30th
and
the
early
bird.
What
that
means
is
we
select
a
a
handful
of
the
talks
ahead
of
time
and
promote
them
heavily
so
get
your
talking
and
early.
If
it's
selected,
then
you
will
actually
get
extra,
promote
promotion
associated
with
it,
but
the
overall
call
for
papers.
H
It
runs
through
July
15,
so
as
I
say,
I
strongly
encourage
everyone
to
jump
in
with
the
talk
you
know
talking
about
the
various
issues
that
we
have
been
trying
to
move
both
forward
car
de8
out
and
then
going
forward,
but
the
other
part
of
this
that
I
don't
have
necessarily
a
slide
for,
but
is
all
the
events
that
are
going
around
eclipse
Khan.
You
are
related
to
this
topic,
so
there
is
a
community
day
on
Monday.
H
That
is
where
we
hope
to
it's
a
wide-open
program
at
this
point,
so
get
involved
in
actually
shaping
what
that
day
looks
like.
There
also
is
a
community
evening
on
the
Tuesday
evening
and
we're
actually
arranging
for
a
hackathon,
which
really
is
just
a
name
where
we're
trying
to
introduce
folks
new
to
this
community
to
participate.
H
So
it's
a
place
for
for
mentoring
for
building
relationships,
and
so
we
that's
a
new
idea
that
we
really
want
to
build
on
and
we're
hoping
that
folks
who
are
engaged
here
will
actually
play
a
leading
role
and
with
more
to
be
said,
check
out
the
program.
But
but
that's
just
a
highlight
on
it.
Thanks,
Tanya,
okay,.
A
So
we
are
just
about
to
hit
the
top
of
the
hour.
I
would
like
to
I
think
all
the
questions
posted
in
the
chat
were
answered.
If
you
have
any
follow-up
questions,
please
get
in
touch
and
of
course,
I
am
sure
that
you
already
have
the
calendar
community
calendar,
and
you
know
that,
when
is
our
next
meeting
scheduled
in
the
meanwhile,
follow
us
on
Twitter,
Facebook
Linkedin
and
get
involved
in
all
of
the
aspects
of
the
jacquard
EEE.
So
thanks,
everyone,
and
with
this
I,
will
close
the
call
and
we'll
be
in
touch.