Jenkins Cloud Native SIG, 20 May 2020

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From YouTube: Jenkins Cloud Native SIG 2.0 - Kick-off meeting

Description

We are restarting the Cloud Native special interest group in the Jenkins project. At this meeting we discussed the framework for Cloud Native SIG 2.0: topics of interest, founding projects and next steps. We also had a discussion about Jenkins Operator for Kubernetes and External Fingerprint Storage.

* Full agenda and meeting notes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13zeaKgtud5jZ5RqZEh1lrwjDXJRm7j31scPymlrMpfo/edit#heading=h.o039rac74cyu
* Discussion in the mailing list: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/jenkinsci-dev/nuOedyIwfyw
* Chat for discussion: https://gitter.im/jenkinsci/cloud-native-sig

A

Oh big hello, now welcome to the cloud negative special interest group meeting today, isn't mine nineties, and actually we reconvene after one year break in special interest group meetings. So it's a great to see so many people on the call and hopefully we'll have even more participants in the next meetings. So the today's agenda is to actually discuss how we started with special interest group. How do we establish regular meetings and just happen productions and another topic? I put. The agenda is about Jenks, but not separator.

A

So last week we had great milometer by Thomas and we could use this venue to discuss. What could we do to how Jenks kubernetes operators project and how we could adopt more features now there and how we put River changes in upstream? Ok, so, regarding the Google Doc, how we usually handle it?

A

Ok, so we have a heater chart and then this guitar shot. We basically post meeting cleaning and emitting notes every meeting. So you can go here and find that the Google Doc here and also just positive individual thanks to need it. But then we have a chat. We can have all these discussions if needed, so how we usually organize the meetings.

A

Google Doc, we make meeting notes and everyone is welcome to participate. So this document should be open for comments. If you want to add something. Just put it there just begin.

A

Since we have a lot of participants on the call, my suggestion would be to just have Rick introductions and after that, basically, the common agenda, who like to go first I, can go okay, so this.

B

Is Marquis.

A

I know Deb Jenkins own.

B

Everybody for the CDF exhumed that that's actually me my name is Mark II I am I'm, one of the Jenkins Corps maintain errs as well as Summer of Code org admin and lead of the pipeline authoring. Cid I am also a member of the kubernetes org as as well as one of the release managers for all the versions that get released. I'm happy to be here. Thank you so much for bringing this stock into the forefront or like and welcome everybody. Thank.

A

You so I could also do a quick introduction them, so my name is Alec Nassif I'm, one of fetching his Corps maintain yours, I'm, also a jenkees board member and the leader of a few special interest groups. One of them is platform special interest group and when augmented she was running, the previous iteration I was helping to organize the meetings etc and I'm really happy to see this special interest group back because for Jenkins being friendly to users is really important.

A

This wing is a great opportunity to discuss challenges, cutting-edge projects and see how we could help each other and drink is physics around kubernetes or in other forums. So nice to see her over here.

A

Anyone else hi.

C

I'm actually working on one of the projects, which is the external fingerprint, storage and Oleg, is my mentor along with Andre and Mike, so that would be one of the founding projects, I think for external power. This said the external fingerprint storage project so happy to see you all and I'll keep you updated on my progress on that project.

C

A

D

Salad for the prison, that's okay, so my name is a combination. I'm working for Red Hat I'm, the maintainer, with a shared, in behalf of the Jenkins images for open shifts, and also them to make dinner for three plugins that we offer option shift for Jenkins on option shift and a contributor on the Jenkins operator, which is topic for this code. Now.

A

Thank you, yep.

C

So hi I'm Slaton I've been gone, active Dinkins contributor to Jenkins in the past, with Jake, it's community bridge project and I'm, also for a student for the MU Summer of Code, with the Jenkins custom view in service yep. So I'm really excited to be part of this special interest group and help in whatever very possible. So thanks. Everyone for this.

C

E

You so I can't.

A

E

Next, maybe I'm sure Adam from Red Hat, I think Akram said almost everything about what we are doing. You know that and related to Jenkins, so yeah. We are happy to see this community growing a bit both around the the operator. We, we start a bit working on it on our side, happy to conjoin.

E

F

Thank you and hello, I'm Tom off from Vito's lab and I'm. Basically, the guy behind the Yankees ability separator.

A

Okay, thank you. So yeah we have a lot of people who work on nuts rhythm and yeah. This is great. So thanks a lot for joining the meeting. Another potential praetor has its own meeting, but right now we have a few conditions. We need to resolve on our calendars. So it's great to have this additional call. I'll share my screen again, so we can see the agenda and and yeah.

A

You can see that there are some meeting notes and at least feel free to add something if anything is missing, because basically calibrated for a document, I will quickly speak about cognitive to do zero, especially for those who didn't participate in the chest addition. There is a threat in the developer mailing list about it, but with this opponent race at the status, the previous see when we started it was built around Jenkins architecture changes.

A

So if you go here, you can see that there are projects like pluggable storage, also called native Jenkins, which ball down to state laser engines and cancer and other such components. Then there is configuration as code and James Coburn and separator, which was edit there, but at that moment the special interest group was Olivia, not detective. So, although it's formally listed here, I, don't think that they were active discussions at their six vania at that point. So this is what we had in 2018 2019.

A

Some projects got a good progress. For example, people to pluggable storage. You can see that establish force forward so to some extent for loads was delivered also be submitted. Some other jobs and discussed changes in other areas, but yeah that point we needed go further say I mean for quad native Jenkins.

A

We have Jake his father on are another components, but all he still under the development integration support evolved pretty well, but I would say that at the moment configuration is called rather has its own special interest group, it's registered as a sub project within Jenkins, and this has its own meetings every two weeks. The next meeting is tomorrow by the way- and it was pretty well but the game, and this project was quite detached from the special interest group, and we even had the discussion about moving people from special interest group half a year ago.

A

We didn't do the move, but yeah I think that in the current stated, are the deserves to be a special receive, an external separator. Yet people on the call know the current state address. We had a meet-up last week with the summary and thanks to tomash and all other contributors. The project involves actively so it's great to see its valuation, a lot of changes in coming of the next 3d zone, but at right this project last week and it works pretty well.

A

So this is what was the scope of the previous seek and one of the problems why this wasn't detective? What you would like is well. The first reason had that it was hardly focused on their key. Such changes, so pluggable storage drink is father on all of them, presumed major changes within Jenkins, and it was quite difficult to find contributors who were interested in this area.

A

So for new additional DC, my proposal was to switch more on use cases for users and to not necessarily big cloud native, and my proposal is totally focused on making the seek cloud friend and making Jenkins cloud friend a you. Don't have to have the jinkies self cognitive to big benefits from running in the cloud and you get benefits from the public environments. At least that's my approach and I would be happy to discuss later. So what do you think about that? What do you think about the disco or interest for this special address book.

B

You so what I.

A

Am have us one.

B

I'm sorry I'm across morning.

C

It doesn't make sense, but.

C

Like you, you have mentioned immigration allowed me to see. A city looks like Tektronix for how.

A

Yes, oh it's a good question how it would be implemented and I can just describe my personal vision. So jenkees pipeline is basically an engine between Jenkins and even now we have multiple implementations of this engine. For example, when you run with sandbox or result sandbox effectively, you have different pipeline engines under the hood, execute in coffee up your pipeline and there is no local from making this engines extensible and, for example, making dick Tom runner a new engine.

A

So, for example, you would be able to run picked on pipelines but at the same time it all benefits from multi branch pipeline and all the harness around the corner engine which is available in Jenkins.

A

I missed the questions.

A

So the current stated that Jenkins X is a separate project, so Jenkins X is a project under the RL of continuous derivative foundation, actually same as Jenkins and tick. So if you go here, you can find that for innovative projects and one who baited and all of them have well. Basically, they operate in the continuous integration and continuous delivery space.

A

Moreover, there are some high-level abstractions, for example, the CD foundation. There is interoperability special interest group, which specifically dedicated ensure that the ICT services can interact between each other and, for example, for this particular project. Integrating mystic tone and Jenkins X could be a good subject for this see why I put it to the cognitive francisco is because yeah thick tongue and jing sex at all native chassis, the engines.

A

So for me it would be useful to have it in the scope, but you have full disclaimer that right now there is no real effort plant of this direction. If you have contributors, we would have been working on that. If not, then not.

A

So yeah this one yeah, maybe it's an aspirational goal but yeah. I think that in principle it would be really beneficial to Jenkins users and, for example, if you go to the Jenkins roadmap, this is what we are currently building. So this roadmap is a draft, but the result of a section for junk is on both platforms. And here, for example, we have Techtron support, there's something in the future, without no specific dates, and there is no date say they are told. But right now it's another subject for the discussion.

A

But if you are interested to contribute to this project, I think it's something we could discuss the basic readings for sure.

A

Any other comments.

B

B

Can't meet that line.

A

But everybody seems to be muted, okay, no anyway.

A

So here this is a disco and again it's not something like you would be working on all these areas and discussing all these areas at once. It's the scope of interest, so, depending condominiums on the schedule, we can set up topics so, for example, today we discuss jenkees Burnett separator, which is here next.

A

We can take a look at another topic, for example James for America brunettes plug in and go that way, but still basic would be boot umbrella for all these projects, I think.

B

This is a great idea: I, like this, adding this entity to the scope, mm-hmm.

A

So yeah, if you are fine with it I'll, probably after the meeting, maybe either later this week, submit a patch to this page, just a tour just erase for improvements, scope of interest, maybe tweak the projects a bit, but yeah I think that it would be a good start to just start. Your work in this page and the topic which is quite close to areas of interest, is about funding projects because, as we already discussed Tipton, it would be a great initiative in principle, but there is no one going work, but there is.

A

There are some projects which are currently ongoing and we do some collaboration and even now we seek not to promote these projects to happening through builders and resolving obstacles in the Jencks community and I started from preparing a list of projects which are closely related and each currently ongoing.

A

So two topics- Mallis no-brainers for me because they come from the previous iteration of the seek those drinks related, coburn, others and drink is foreigner but yeah. There is a lot of other project which we could discuss and yes, I just to quickly go through that. If everyone is interested.

A

Okay, so yeah the first project in the list I have is project by cement about external fingerprint storage. So we started there as a part of our G soap effort and if you go to the quality 86, but there is a flood of storage page so yeah there is a lot of storage tabs and finger. Prints is here why it's important?

A

Because if you want to do CI a CD, you likely wanted to have a kind of traceability and observability of your artifacts inside Jenkins or outside Jenkins, and if you move outside, especially if you want to build the system on the top of Jenkins having an external storage would be paid and right now we have ongoing discussion, how it would be implemented and maybe meet. You would like to summarize the current plan.

C

Hi, so, basically, under this project, what we are targeting for is first right, we're trying to move we're, trying to add an extension point which can allow, which can allow pool to support external storages. Second, that we are trying to build a reference implementation for Redis at the moment, and third, is that once we can do both these things is that we can actually trace these fingerprints across different Incans instances. So that is the core idea for our project and right now we are only in the first week of it.

C

So as we go on and develop it, we post more updates on this thing. Would you like? Do you have anything else in mind that I should be talking about I.

A

Think it's a good summary. Thank you. Thank.

C

A

What's the pinyin of other participants, doing it pluggable storage and if so, what's happening about this particular topic.

D

After to devote just the, what is it supposed to to be in terms of usage just by I'm reading right now, the great about it? It's about tracking usage of artifacts credentials finders on what? What do we mean by track tracking so.

A

Basically it's in Jenkins, so there is a database called fingerprint storage. Well, this is basically a bunch of files on the file system right now. It's not real video base and the it was a different metadata about arthropods and this metadata is extensible. So, for example, you can trace docker images. You can trace our efforts and finally, just ends up accessible to junkies users to drink these jobs so that they can do something.

A

With this data, for example, you can trace usage of your artifact or of your image container across multiple jobs, if needed or within your delivery pipeline. If you speed it across multiple jobs,.

D

So, let's try to give a simple example. Imagine that I build like a simple java web application and I refer some maven artifacts in my public cement or something like that. The jacobs pipeline will trigger at so point the build of my java application. Will any of my main, even artifacts, for example, will be referenced in the database and would be the same for any thing that I build every every class, for example that I bill or I compiled all right.

A

Yeah, it really depends on the implementation. First facts: when you publish an artifact, it can be automatically added to the fingerprint database and what it means. You have one job which builds your fault, another one which deploys it to a server, for example, new release of your library of your service, and then you can outrace this dependency or another use keys just a stage, and so you can pass your artifacts through environments again trace usage states. They build results with test results within these environments and where it is deity within Jenkins.

A

So you can quickly access what happened with the subsequent ok.

D

What is the fingerprint that is taken? Is it like an md5 or shine.

D

A

Oh yeah I'll probably give def to the code a bit so in Jenkins there is a fingerprint class right hand, side, junkies, core, and this fingerprint class is basically nykeya, which has ID basically md5 at the moment, and it also has an extensible set of fingerprints.

A

So their faces so face, it is basically an extensible object in Jenkins and any plugin any step can put additional information in a fingerprint, so you create an artifact. You have a unique ID and then any instance within Jenkins and put additional details which can contribute to user interface, which can be in to be quiet in the future, and this is basically destruction. So it's it really allows to do everything as long as you have for a unique ID.

A

D

You have an idea of what would be like the default implementation. I mean what which kind of file we'll be tracking just asking because of performance. For example, let's say you have a very naive approach. Approach like I would strike all the classes or all these things that I built during my pipeline, so being a huge amount of CPU to just compute this all the time.

D

Do you have any answer about this right now? What do you think just just, for example, for a simple web application? Let's assume, for example, that I want to know that which any class of all my dependents maven jars I, want to know which one I used so I would like get every jar extracted, get the md5 for every class inside and I will store it in ready or in the file system or whatever. So this could be very type CPU consuming and probably even for bigger application, it would be storage consuming.

D

So what will be the implementation for this? Will it be distributed? Will it be like running inside of the pipeline will be a synchronous or synchronous? Would it add, yeah this kind of questions asking right now so just trying to understand maybe what kind of usage we are we have for this, but I see a lot of data and and CPU cycles, but yeah right now, I, don't know if what kind of use it we can.

C

Have so basically like from what I understand is that so, basically, whenever you want to fingerprint a particular file, that is an extra build step that we do add on our own and fingerprints by default, like they are very small in size, so they don't take a lot of space. I think Jesse ran some tests for those and so I think in fact, from the current implementation. All these fingerprints are, as it is in Jenkins, home right, so they're all ready.

C

It's not a good way to be storing Jenkins, because so fingerprints, because so we are dependent on the storage disk of chickens home, so by taking it out of there into an external. So it's like I think that is an extra step that is much better. That is actually solving a problem and as far as I think the database was like we can configure.

C

So it's a more easy to configure the database, who you know have maybe replica sets or any other such things that we would want so like, maybe maybe I think I, don't know if I answered your question or not, but that would be my take on that.

A

Yep I would all set, but the implementation is yet to be seen now. What we mostly targeting the pluggable storage storage, is offering extensibility px so, for example, what we did for thread manager two years ago, we created extensibility, PA and then, for example, microsoft, asia team. They have experience with working with a user storages and they created a reference implementation.

A

Well, the implementation of the aps for asia same for AWS, etc, but our main problem was to first provide that key technical capability so that users could resolve and the translate your specific use case. It really depends on what you run and how you index finger prints. If you want to index every class any file at all, they can do it in Jenkins, but it comes at a cost, but the drink is won't index it like that by default. So what's your educated choice as a user. If you want to do that.

A

We have JC on the go I.

G

See if there's anything, they should end up, probably not okay, so.

A

Yeah we spent some time on this project. I suggest that we slowly move on and yeah. We could have a special session at the next meeting about the storage, because it's an interesting topic and we could deep dive and that guess it would be really interesting for us meet other participants in this project because we really see the feedback from users so that we can work so other projects which we have on the list. One is changes on kubernetes, so just explain the history right now.

A

We have a lot of stories about running some kubernetes, but basically no documentation gingka at all. No solution pages, no guidelines, nothing and in the documentation sheet. We identified it as a priority project and we start from doing online meters about Jenkins on kubernetes, but we also want to have some documentation to have some solution pages so that we can share this experience and we want to integrate this knowledge and make it accessible in Jenkins, obviously, expertise so cognitive, sick members would be essential if you want to deliver on that.

A

So it's a kind of joint project between two six and hopefully we will have contributors for that. Even during the next week we have here you execute on, and these projects proposed there and what- and here we also have plug-in projects so, for example, Marquis who's. Another poll is a maintainer of kubernetes playing in our parameters, plug-in and basically again, actually measure the six scope and yeah mark you. What do you think about covering these topics? Topic periodically basic meetings, yeah.

B

I would love to do that. Mm-Hmm.

B

A

So yeah exact list of pregnancies yet to be seen, but I think that this area would be really interesting for potential Jenkins users, and we can also see how we could collaborate because, for example, yeah there is drinks but not separate that it uses Cabela's floating in. So probably we could find a lot of collaboration between it is there I will skip Jake asked for now, because it's a subject for longer discussions and yep. So we have 20 minutes left.

A

There should be just a switch to the Jencks kubernetes bellator. Or would you like to discuss at the logo? Because we don't have one.

C

A

Oh yeah, right now: what do you have this fancy icon? It's puts a special offensive when you zoom in or when you post it even Twitter, because it's something like 128 pixels. So my proposal was that let me use existing artwork and the best matching thing is this logo, so I would suggest something like that. But if you have ideas what it could be, I'm happy to discuss them and you probably to put something else.

A

About it, my plan is to actually start mining fist thread about updating it. So if you're having ideas, please share them in this way,.

A

And then sorry for these editors and I think now we can actually switch to the Ginga scuba narrator.

A

So the last week we had a presentation by Thomas all materials already published, so you can find it, for example, if the comments ever load. So here you can find a video recording.

A

Is this presentation and demo, but by Thomas and just second I started getting called Odin also you can find slides, etc, and one of the topics we discussed with so much is what would be the patch medias for they seek to help and how we can generally help the project to move forward, because right now it's a part of the roadmap that is ánotá, Jenkins enhancement proposal, which documents what would be implemented and what needs to be implemented and I. Think it's a good beginning, discuss a way.

A

We could help another to move this proposal forward and to find a gated finish time when we switch to next iterations and the help and other projects.

A

Would you like to talk about the current status and what changes you hear? Yes,.

F

Okay, so the current status for the Jenkins company separator that we managed to Randy Jenkins on top of kubernetes we've bunch of Jenkins plugins, for example, kubernetes plug-in or kubernetes secrets, plugins, which nicely integrate the kubernetes itself.

F

So we use the operator pattern for that. We have some issues with the Jenkins itself, so the in my opinion, then the the most important thing that the Jenkins is application, I, would say stateful. So we have to care about the state.

F

So, with the current Jenkins architecture, we have to making backup of some files from the Jenkins home directory and we have to know about really deep internals. What what, for example, the the that file do, or we have to keep that or just we can skip. We don't know so. This proposal for the plug, like able storage, is very interesting for us, because we can move a storage or state to another place and make the Jenkins provision by the operator be stateless and we can run multiple instances of it and also make the.

F

Hi available because we've current architecture there is, can be one jenkees master and we can spin another Jenkins master without Turing doubt the previous one. So this is the most important I would think. The another issue is that the installing plugins is can be.

F

Can be improved so.

F

There is a tonal Center which only have information that okay, you have Jenkins with version X and you can install those plugins, but there is no such thing like dependency tree or in my opinion, we we need some another API for the plugins. So to give you some use case so from the operator perspective, I want to know if the user, one this plug-in in this Jenkins and after.

F

Making some API calls I can verify that this plug-in won't be installed for the Jenkins and I want to inform you, sir, that sorry, it's not possible because something likes there is no dependency or or it's not supported in your version, and we faces a lot of issues related to that. For example, user put plugin list that want to install the Jenkins. The operator tried to dog download all this plug-in, so it's on on the directory, but after the Jenkins the Jenkins would say: I can run these plugins because I have some kind dependency.

F

So when I we have this some kind of API I think it should be something totally different. It will be very user friendly because we have information that user. This plug-in won't be installing in this Jenkins. So the the state, the plugins.

F

We I would say very heavy user of the Cooper notice plug-in. So III can speak that this plug-in involve very well so yeah. There is a lot of.

F

Diagnostic locks there, so the user have more information what's going on because in kubernetes there can be a lot of issues related to some volumes can be mount or basically it doesn't exist. So this information is it's now available on the lock. So so so that's fine! So it's.

F

You you don't have another person expertise, so you have a little lock, so you will be free. I have more free from supporting running Jenkins at of kubernetes.

F

Yeah and I think that those two things is most important for me. So.

A

If you don't mind, I'll start from installing plugins, because yeah you're totally right, there is no API right now for dependencies, and my question to you was whether you need to eat or whether you need tools like, for example, CLI doesn't make difference for you.

A

Because, for example, we have a project called plug-in installation manager tool, and basically this is a new advanced which supports basically manager and plugins and it'll, contain clothes and pitches is just not available. For example, we and plug-in management scripts within docker, like your updates, via security updates and technically we could integrate dependency tracing here as well.

F

Yes, I saw this project, so it's for sure better that using the install plugins, not a sage, from the Jenkins docker image, but stills still, for example, in some use cases.

F

This still have to download the plug-in first unpack this and read the dependencies from there. If we have a preferred for that will be very the server's which holds the plugins will be more relaxed so yeah. If friends, Jiang himself will benefit from from this kind of new API. Yes,.

A

So right now we have a special plug inside plugins Jenkins ion, and actually this side has two parts: back-end and front-end and back-end part already can supply the CPRS problem that disappears and freely documented example. What you see here these dependencies used to come from the back hand side right now. We have static side, so it's just generated on the run, but still we could expose this API a second needed, so there is a project just second, this project called bug: insight, API, Atticus.

A

So again, it's totally not documented, but in principle it has a PS which might be needed for your use cases and you can deploy it locally it and cut it, can cache the update Center file and provide additional search queries between either in the future, so, for example, plugins and plug-in endpoint at this endpoint it returns a lot of information, but this information includes the dependencies.

F

The question is this: a B ice runs some somewhere over the Internet exposed, so I can just use it or I have to run this in docker or something like that. Yes,.

A

Right now, you would have to run it if needed. We could discuss creating a service for that, but there is one downside of running. It is a service, because this plugin sytp aria gets information from jenkees update, Center and the let's assume you have a custom of lead Center in your company. Then you won't be able to use the same plug insight API. Instead of that, you would have to run your instance and connect to that.

A

So in principle having a public instance, we say the CP area would be doable, but in practice for some cases you will need to have a.

A

F

See so yeah it doesn't arresting so for me, I would try to use that and see what API I can get, what information and test, if that will be enough for for the operator, basically,.

A

Before that, we had some discussions, for example, about having could have ql engine for this component, etc. Later we actually moved on because we just decided that we would rather generate a static plug inside and if you go to this service, its fullest static, now heat transfer behind CDN, so it's also extremely fast and what we do not regret this decision, but still the API services obey if needed. So technically we could add additional functionality. Then.

D

I have question regarding the plugins installation, so, right now with the operator, there is an issue about some a user complaining about. Every time like we will have to start drinking using the operator right now. We will download the plugins that the user would like so in open shipped, for example, we got to do with the option shift image. We got a different approach, which is I, think probably more more fits more with the kubernetes approach and the container image in its ability principle is like we.

D

We built the image with a set of plugin that you use that the user wants, and then this image is stored in the in the container registry, the docker registry.

D

So every time that we want to redeploy the exact same image, we just deployed this image and we don't have to care at every deployment or every startup to redownload in the plugin checking the dependencies and so on. So this one is done. It's done once I wanted you to to share this this you and have some feedback from from the group here to see. If this approach for downloading the plugins on every startup, what is the use case behind this? Is it something that we would like to continue on on communities.

A

It's a subject for continues holy water, so, for example, personally I'm also a big fan of immutable images and yams I mean you can talk to divorce Walt, describing how to do it with Jenkins and Jenkins tools. But there is some use cases where you might want to install plugins on demand. So the first use key is when you have users and like, for example, kubernetes separator user-defined pipeline and if which plugins they eat. So basically you supplied sec, ready and then whatever magic deploys jenkins instance.

A

We set the required set of plugins and execute that, so you will have to install the plugins, but assuming that you have a local update center, it can be done quicker. Another use case is to just rebuilding and provision of all the images, so it might have area, but it really depends.

D

The first scenario I'm not sure to get it properly. So are you talking about the pipeline where we decide to install a specific plugin while we are running the pipeline or before starting the pipelines? Yep.

A

So we mentioned you as usually were able to define not only a pipeline but also to say that I need these plugins for my pipeline and you wouldn't have to go to your junk aside, means to and to ask to install, for example, HTML publish that plug-in or unflagging for what it works.

A

Technically, this use case would make sense so dynamic installation of plugins, which you need, for example, we support this use case and Jenny's fellow runner, again user can define a list of plugins and they get installed automatically. So I don't use this mode, but it's possible.

D

Probably my knowledge about Jenkins here is limited, with. Let's try to follow the HTML publisher example. Just imagine that the user is pipeline on his configuration. He says: I won't actually publisher version, 1, dot, X and the Jenkins version is running already. You one dot, a ok, so it was if you want to kind of upgrade the HTML publisher, plug-in of the running Jenkins instance, and in most of the cases that would require a Jenkins restart right am I. Correct are yes.

A

If you run on the same instance, but for example, he used kubernetes separate area. If you follow Thomas about heavily bility and provisioning instances on demand again, you can provision your tank since dance is very quite set of plugins, so that you can execute this payload now.

D

But in this case we just returned to the same original problem. If it's just about instantiating and not a Jenkins instance from an existing pipeline will be starting a new image, and so we can just consider that this image should have been existing before or we can decide to create this image for subsequent restarts, I mean if we just in the plug-in, we have multiple runs of the plug-in, but will not build again and over again the same image, knowing that we'll be using the same version of the of the plug-in itself inside oh yeah.

D

This is kind of the inception.

D

Probably, as you said, it's like a long debate.

D

Yeah, probably it will come back often because we had this discussion, probably in the past, and some users are coming with it again.

D

Let's, let's put it for further discussion, also because we are probably running out of time and there's other topics.

F

I have a similar question regarding plugins, so from the operator perspective, the user defined the list of plugins. They want to install and operator try to inspect that, but the user want the exactly versions of those plugins and I find the only way to achieve that is to install plugins before starting the Jenkins. With this CR tool or install plugins dodges to the side file and then run in rankings when I trying to install plugins directly from the Jenkins itself.

F

It always installed plugins with the latest version, and the question is why I can specify the previous version of the plug-in when, starting from the junction itself, I.

A

Guess it's a user experience aspect which could be addressed because that's how current drink is plug-in manager works.

F

A

F

This is very, this is very problem for us because we have to restart all the Jenkins to install plugins, but when we have opportunity to install specific direction from the Jenkins API through for the Jenkins API, so opportu can use that you'll be super easy for us. So we've with some kind of scenario we can. We don't need to restart or all Jenkins master.

D

F

Just install a plug is on the fly.

A

Yeah, in some cases it will work. Well, you can install a new plugin dynamically. You cannot update a plug-in in Jenkins, so in order to support that, you just need proper REST API socialize and they could be definitely added I'm, not sure whether we have support for that in the default. Abit Center, but basically it's a small matter of programming. If you want to add the CPS I think it would be totally doable and.

F

A

F

This behavior it comes from the what we got. We from the Download Center I think there is only latest plug-in versions. I back this one year ago, maybe maybe has has changed, but yeah.

G

F

See that the root cause of that is the latest versions in the dublin center. It.

A

Depends on the update center because even in Jenkins we actually have multiple update Central's. So, for example, if you go here here, you have experimental of this Center current update, centers LCS update centers, which provide different sets of plugins, and it will be totally doable to have merchants beat centers and to support versions right inside these files. So yeah you do the right.

A

If you go here, you can see that there is just a link to whatever version, which is latest version supported by this LCS baseline, but if needed, Jenkins could download another version because all versions are still available in archives, so it just makes logical it reeve that and it's not a problem. This particular version. Let's read the problem these dependencies, because you would also need to resolve dependencies and most likely would got in. You will get into conflicts there, so it's doable but require some design. Yes,.

F

I see and when I we've got this new API, we we we even can check if it will be, it can be installed on your Jenkins or not so yeah this.

F

This will be very much more user friendly for fork, burn energy, separator users.

F

A

Could add this appears and if anyone wants to contribute it's something quite rocket science. So in July we basically have two classes update site and a plugin manager, and both these classes already have the EPS for different use cases. So we could just add a drastic area and we also include all dry, run, logic, etc. So, for example,.

A

But yep Oh API solve it will be there and we can take my PS if needed, for use cases and I believe that if I did this feature, for example, pre valid configuration, it's already exist.

A

Well, it's not EPA, it's not quite friendly API because they don't own the forging tunnels, but we can expose API, which would be concerned by sea lions if needed, and we can add, fishes the current rise of the CP is so we could implement.

A

Now somebody could implement. We just need to report this issues and to see whether anybody would be willing to contribute to this area.

A

Thomas, if you would be willing to report issues for that, it would be nice so that we can process the BEM and make the facilitate contributions around that.

F

Yeah sure, how is the process for for creating the issues is the jarate card or github issue jetty.

A

Ticket so Jenkins Cove leave, saying Jenkins, jitter and I mean you don't have plan to move to github wishes, at least in the foreseeable future.

F

Okay, thank you. Okay,.

A

So yeah we already running over time, see- and yes, sorry for that, so my proposal for the next meeting I plan to start another doodle so that we wrote for regular meeting time. I wanted to start from something like meeting every two weeks. Again we will stop topics for particular meetings, so there is no need to participate if you're not interested in topic.

A

Let's say next time we do external, fingerprint storage, so everybody is welcome to participate and then, in two weeks we do drink is further rounded or Jenkins cabinets greater again, so that we will keep running these meetings and inviting interested in particular agenda.

A

Does it sound good to you?

A

Okay, then I will just get it implemented. So yeah thanks to everybody for your time and yeah I will publish the recording of this meeting and if you have any feedback about what topics you would like to consider just put them in their gender document, so they're what they will go on.

A

So I will just put a section for next meeting. So if you want to discuss something, we just you can just propose a change there and we will coordinate what we discussed there.

A

I'm starting the installation.

A

So yeah, that's it for today and thanks a lot so much for shank. They feedback, because yeah I knew about the pluggable storage story. I didn't know about plug-in manager aspects, but it's great to have such insight.

A

Yeah thanks ol. Thank you guys, see you you're.

E

Right buddy see.

A