Jenkins Documentation Office Hours, 12 Oct 2020

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From YouTube: 2020 10 12 Docs office hours

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Jenkins Docs office hours Oct 12, 2020. Topics included the Oct 14, 2020 webinar on Hacktoberfest contributions, documentation migration progress, and Docker tutorial fixes and improvements.

A

This as well, oh, oh good young, needs a leak.

B

Yeah, so let me get that for him. uh It is okay,.

B

B

B

B

Let's see, where is the getter channel.

B

Docs, oh no, it's not that's embarrassing. I had prepared the thing to post and then failed to post it 30 minutes ago. I prepared it to post and then failed to post. It. Shame on me finish what you started: okay, so.

B

Embarrassing that's awkward beyond words because it wasn't available until I just posted it. Sorry all right! Sorry about that. Jonathan.

C

Hello, thank you for the link mark. I wasn't find it.

B

I didn't my apologies, I thought I'd. I had failed to press return in getter, so.

C

D

B

In my buffer ready to go, and it had been there for 30 minutes, so, okay, all right, sorry about that so proposed agenda, hacktoberfest progress, oaks, webinar top of the list, oktoberfest progress report doctor for tutorials terminology fixes progress any other things that we would like to put on the agenda.

B

Jonathan, would you like a chance to review wiki wiki migration progress.

C

No, I guess it's definitely. Okay,.

B

Okay, great meg, anything that you want to add.

A

B

This looks good.

A

B

So I've got a slide deck that I've drafted stealing liberally from a deck that oleg nanashev did last year. It looks like this. If you don't, like your picture, propose a change. If you don't like something else, propose a fix. I think those are great pictures by the way yeah well they're, all stolen from twitter, so.

C

B

So so, if you don't like the picture, you're welcome to replace it with a different one. I'd like to be 20 or 30 years younger, but I really don't want teenagers again. So that's a different problem.

E

And give up all that accumulated wisdom now.

B

No, no! No! No! That's that's never assumed right. You go back in time, but you remember everything. So this is the this is the deck and uh I'm reasonably comfortable with the pieces that oleg will present at the start. Here um I assume he'll take 15 or 20 minutes to talk through general contributions.

B

Then jonathan, I put three slides in for you as proposals, one looking at what we looked like in august.

B

All this big loop of things that didn't have any issue and then what we look like today with much much better progress and and then give you a slide to talk about this is how easy it is to use a github issue. You're welcome.

C

That's amazing, so you are already I've done that I'll work. I.

B

Think what no well I! If, if this helps you that's great, you are, you should do your own. You should decide what you want to save, but my thought was. Those are the things that, if, if you want to use those you're welcome to, if not you can put whatever you'd like in.

C

You know it's amazing.

B

D

Exactly how I I print to create some slides great.

B

Okay, so- and you should plan to not spend more than say three to five minutes, because we want to highlight that this was not zero effort. This was this took work for us to get ready for this. We want them to know it's. It's not free that we we, you know it doesn't.

B

It is not no cost for us to do this work to get ready for hacktoberfest, but we've got some good techniques and we think it welcomes them.

C

B

Then vlad yours, I just put a slide in what I think I think the steps are and the demonstration you can choose what you'd like to put in it's all yours, thank you and justin.

F

Migrate, go ahead, just a question mark: do we have any limitation like we need uh hard to stop in one hour or uh or there is some flexibility? What do you think.

B

So we've we've got some flexibility. We generally allow ourselves up to 90 minutes.

B

The audience tends to fade away at about 70 minutes, and so, if we've, if we've reached 60 and haven't yet gotten into questions and answers, what I will do is, I will probably short circuit this migrating plug-in documentation, section and point them to the videos we've already recorded of this same material. So so what I'm talking about here in migrating plug-in documentation is actually not new material. We've recorded it multiple times and I can give them links to it. Whereas running jenkins that I owe look building it locally is something we've not shown them before.

B

So we want to be sure you have time to do that thanks much for clicking.

B

And so I've added I've inserted something about the steps you do in a demonstration, I'll I'll choose a plug-in and migrate. It live because it's it's a good hint and I'm sure oleg will will help as and remind oh. You should do this think about that and we'll have a good dialogue. Those kind of things are always lots of fun. Watching me, type on screen is a little a little spooky sometimes, and then we end.

C

Okay, so the entire session uh will be near for 60 minutes or more then.

B

So the entire session will the the entire session will will will be likely 60 minutes and it might go as much as 75 minutes. It depends if we get question and answer now. If you need to exit early, you are welcome to exit jonathan uh you, you don't have to feel obligated, like you need to give more than that. I know it's the middle of your working day, and so it could be really challenging.

C

Yeah exactly is it because I I support.

B

Thank you yeah, and so don't don't worry about, don't worry about if you need to exit you're welcome to exit at any time, especially if you've, if your employer said hey, we'll give you one hour great. If you can give us the hour, that's wonderful.

C

B

We will make sure that your time slot is within that 60 minutes.

B

Vlad same applies to you right if you've got something where your schedule just won't. Allow you to go beyond an hour oleg, and I can generally handle question and answer after the one hour time, if needed,.

F

Well, it will be seven in the morning my time, so I'm free.

B

At that time, that's that's right there. The work does not usually start in california at seven a.m. That's right! I like that. Okay.

C

All right so so mark uh the idea is, uh for example, you show this live on screen and we just talk.

B

Correct for your portion, that was my assumption. Anyways is I'll, be running the screen and showing and you'll just talk to the topic and I'll. You can tell me when you'd like to advance the next slide or I'll, make my best guess.

C

Oh okay, okay,.

B

Now, if you would like to show a demonstration we could, we could allow that I had assumed your piece likely wouldn't get a demonstration, because you don't have enough. You don't quite have enough time to do an effective demonstration.

C

Yeah, I guess it's enough, just so the graphics, because the sharks, because we talk to people, how we work to prepare the good fist issue for event and for the first contribution. So I guess it's enough.

B

Great all right now, vlad for you you'll actually have to take over screen sharing to do the demonstration so that and and I'll just state, okay, I'm going to stop sharing my screen and glad to let you share yours, so you'll you'll take it over at that time.

B

B

Any any other questions, concerns or topics on the session for.

B

B

All right, then, we can go to our next topic. I think so.

B

If you need to see the outline uh you're welcome to it. It's here uh that that's the out in the skeleton outline that I use to describe it and then the meetup itself is also linked, so that you've been, and if you could on your social media tomorrow promote it. That would be a great help because about 24 hours prior to the meetup, it's really good that each of us has presenters shares on social media. Hey I'll, be presenting this thing so that our audience, our followers are reminded. Oh yeah, that's tomorrow and I'll I'll.

B

Do that tomorrow about this time about this time. Right now,.

C

Okay sounds good.

B

So on the progress report next topic, we've got github issues that, prior to wednesday, I'm going to need to triage some more issues, I'm going to need to review some more issues, because we've made such good progress on the good first issues that jonathan had created for us that we need to get a fresh set, and you see this blue line here. Those are the ones that need uh the second, the review, my review and I'll review and update and, and that way, we'll have a whole new set of new good. First issues.

B

Right now, we're down to. Let's take a look, how many total good first issues? We only have 10 open, good first issues, and I think we started with 25 or more, if I remember correctly, and of these 10, it looks like only one or two are not assigned so we'll before before wednesday's webinar I'll, try to assure that we have another 10 or 15 good first issues in this list, thanks very much jonathan for for creating those issues so that we'd have them to start.

C

Yeah, that's welcome and another interesting point about the that kind of good. First issues uh about the redirect one: it's uh everyone can uh exec to execute them just uh inside of github, so you can edit the file inside the github change, change the content and just submit the pr it's a plus.

B

It is- and I think that's a that is a compelling plus because you don't even have to have a jenkins jenkins account to do this. You don't have to have local ide. You don't have to have local development. There are so many things that that having good github issues makes life much much better, absolutely yeah, so yeah.

C

So maybe in the end it's a a good thing to show to audience too good point.

B

Think of that, let me see the close count.

C

If I remember it's almost 15 uh good fist issues.

D

Almost oh, very good, I was.

B

Just going to do a quick count of the number we've closed in 12 days, yeah.

C

I called hannah, I list them and their previous meeting. It's 14 19 49 issues.

B

49 issues that have been closed.

C

No, I I I them ready for good fist issues. It's uh uh now we're previous sessions. Yes,.

B

Got it okay, 49 new issues created 135 issues open, and I wanted to see the so. Let me just do a fast. Let's see there should be no way to ask: no, I don't see it so anything closed less than 12 days ago. So it's to right here.

B

So it looks like 20 plus.

B

Closed in hacktoberfest excellent.

A

Wow, that's good big victory.

C

Yeah after it's a good to know how many new members send vrs.

B

Right and and that one I've got, I've actually got metrics, and maybe we've got to look at those metrics. That would be fun just to see because we've got metrics.

B

Where do I have the metrics jenkins docsig in this.

B

Document that we maintain this the official sig meeting that we have once a month there is a oh, oh that's right. Here's the easy way to do it. Let's just do a one month view.

B

So in the last one month, we've closed 37 issues, merged 65, pull requests so that a month, that's that's um more than just hacktoberfest, but in the last week we've closed 11, merch, 11, pull requests and close 12 issues so easily 20 plus, and then the graph here just to show that we're also doing a good job at responding to people as they arrive our time between first submission of a pr and first comment from someone other than the author is less than half an hour median less than six hours for eighty-five percent of the pull requests.

C

Congratulations.

B

Bang- and this is a great- this is a great- this is a a fun graph that at times is terrifying, because a year ago it was taking us three weeks to get the 85th percentile and now we're we're down to less than a day and on the yeah. In fact, we haven't been at three days since early 2020s. For about six months, we haven't been above one day to respond. That's good, excellent.

E

Do we know the geography for which people are contributing.

B

uh These this that's a good question for this particular site, because it has a a whole set of attempts to guess who the contributors are and how. I don't know that it has anything about geography, but it's got, for instance, information about companies trying to make a guess as to which piece contributors are coming from which company and and so so it's it's certainly got those kinds of things in it. I don't think I've ever seen anything about geographic location.

E

I was just wondering, I'm thinking that say: submitters in india might have a longer response time, because americans are in bed at the time or something right right. That makes.

B

E

And but those are still pretty.

B

E

B

Yeah and and certainly getting the 85th percent well, what that may hint also is. We need more contributors from from the far east, in particular the indian subcontinent. We know we've got lots of users there, but we're not not getting. We don't see nearly as many contributors and we certainly, for instance, we don't have a mirror site in india, and that would be a logical place to have a jenkins mirror. We've got them in china and in japan.

B

Three in europe. As another example, we don't have anything in south america as a mirror site, and so.

E

B

E

Australia, do we have one in australia.

B

No, not one there either, and so so there are plenty of places where you know what we've got more things. We need to do.

B

So the hacktoberfest progress report. Thank you very much, jonathan thanks for your work, preparing good first issues and it's looking promising the next step is a four or eight hour block for me to review those issues, the new more issues so that we've got a better list of good first issues for the next round.

B

Anything else on progress report.

B

Okay, next topic, then docker for tutorials uh vlad. Tell us how that's going share with us, what you're, what you're, learning and.

F

uh Well, it's uh very interesting, very exciting and I'm learning how to uh well create a customized docker image and make it available in our tutorials, and uh let me share the process how I uh just attempted to fix this issue. It was a long-standing issue that we're using not official docker image in our documentation on our site on jenkins.io, and so I attempted different ways of trying to figure out how to solve this problem and well um found that one way of doing this is by customizing docker image by customizable image.

F

I was running all different tutorials and it was successful uh specifically calling a docker uh statement from pipeline declarative pipeline, so making sure that docker command is available inside.

F

Our image and the next challenge was to make sure that it may be nicely fit inside our documentation which, as we know, trying to use- don't repeat yourself dry principle, so it is only once mentioned, for instance, docker portion and a lot of different reference to that portion from different chapters in recommendations. So it was a challenge- and I uh addressed- I guess this in tutorial section and another request, which I guess well pull request, which is approved but not merged. Yet about um doing this fixed inside installation genders uh chapter.

F

There is also docker chapter inside installing and well for particular reasons. I guess there are two different, uh several different files which uh separate tutorial section and installing gentlemen's, and so I modified both of them a little bit different modifications. Because later I figured out that we're using in many of our well tutorials- and uh you know, materials on jenkins dot io by using blue ocean plugin, and so I thought maybe it makes sense to put blue ocean plugin in the customized docker image which we are referring to and using this technique.

B

And so you did that you cut you. You've actually included the blue ocean plug-in as part of the custom image that they they're taught how to construct.

F

Right, but I put this only in the pull request, which is not yet merged, so it's and actually I'm using that technique, which you showed on our previous uh office hours. Thank you mark for doing this again. This is uh like put in this uh new plugin, not inside plugin.txt, but basically inside the command.

F

So it will be just since we're talking about just one plugin, so we can just put this one plugin inside this new customized docker image. uh Well, this was interesting kind of experience, interesting experiment and I'm glad that this tutorial is merged is merged to the real pull request related to docker image.

F

And, of course there is much more to do. It is, I guess, the final, a lot of different improvements which can be done, uh um for instance, in tutorial where well, I would say our tutorial section is not consistent completely. So it's as with any program.

F

It is unlikely every program it has at least one bike, so there is way for improvement in any section um and well, maybe I'm thinking, maybe um sometime in the future, making video. I liked very much how on blue ocean. We have series of uh two minute videos created by.

G

By personally it was liam liam newman liam jenkins said videos.

F

Yeah and I like them so much they're very brief- they are very instructive, very precise and well, they contain everything what is needed. I use them for my first actually doing my first uh blue ocean based uh jenkins file and uh like making sure that it works in blue plugin, and I well like this very much, and I think you maybe repeat this experience uh the only stuff that these videos are referred only in uh blue ocean section.

F

So this there is some inconsistency and maybe later we can address in our later discussions or do we want to refer to just videos, because we have combination of videos and text, and maybe it should be both um something of those but yeah. It's up to you, go to governance or to decide what what would be the most appropriate and how to address this, um but yeah right now, blue ocean videos, they kind of stand alone because they're uh like not very well of fit in the rest of the documentation.

F

But I liked the content. I, like the presentation very much yeah, well just sharing my thoughts and like what what I like, what about this pigmentation and everything. So that was my experience basically on doing that,.

E

We did develop some training materials sort of based on those videos working with liam at the time a couple of warnings that material. I don't know that he's updated. It is a little bit outdated. I don't think anything in. It is wrong, but I think there's missing things like the oh god. What is it? uh It's there's a version of the snippet generator that works for declarative now.

B

Right so, instead of plenty of right, there are plenty of gaps where we could do. uh We could do more of those one minute or two minute. Videos and and people would likely be delighted with the snippet generator the declarative, the declarative generator, how to use the online help more effectively.

B

Those those three are, I think, hidden treasures that people just don't know exist in jenkins until somebody shows them look. This is how easy it is. You didn't have to go, read six feet of documentation. You didn't have to read long, detailed documentation, you just needed to click here and life was easier, but but we don't, I don't think we've got a jenkins minute for either of those and and yeah that that's a certainly a weakness now vlad I was curious.

B

Did you encounter any any problems in terms of multi-platform, because if I remember you've got windows and possibly mac os, which which places did you use to run the tutorials, as you were developing them?.

F

uh Well, uh before actually publishing well before making this pr, and I'm not sure how you will approve this approach or not. I tested kind of this approach on my mac uh and on windows also on windows machine. So it was not virtual. It was physical, like different hardware, uh where I tested and it worked on both uh like running and again it was more like smoke sanity test. It was not very sophisticated, integrated test which runs for many hours, which your, I guess you are using uh in development.

F

I looked that listing testing you mentioned well, it takes a lot of time, but it was just a small test verified that it works initially for tutorial for people who will try to teach themselves, uh and so after that I posted.

B

Oh excellent yeah, so so you had already verified that it worked on windows and mac and therefore you've, probably already tested windows is commonly the most challenging and mac has some interesting side side notes. Linux is therefore highly likely to already work. Just fine, that's great! Thank you. Yeah.

F

And I was not sure about uh windows because well, docker was not uh just recently implemented on windows, I mean officially because there were usually problems with uh dockerize and different uh things on windows platform, but it worked over there. So I'm glad.

B

That is great, very good.

B

Any other question any questions from anyone else to vlad.

E

um One thing I was going to say is that the training materials are freely available to anybody. There might be stuff there, you can now the the training materials need rework, but there might be things you could steal. That would be useful for you.

B

Oh, thank you so glad you do know which training materials she's referencing, because they are they're. Actually a club beast product, not a jenkins project product but um they're. The courses themselves are available at no charge.

F

uh Well, please correct me meg if I'm wrong, but my understanding that your references are cloud business university and I um attempted to complete. I completed like fundamental courses, three courses on cloud base. um I hadn't passed here, their uh certification exam, uh but but yeah. I I saw these materials of yeah.

E

The class has got good data work, but there's some good slides in there and if you want, if you want to ask your doctor source mark, can we do that under the table.

B

uh I I I always have to ask permission before I give anything away right so source.

E

B

Proprietary things stay proprietary until we get permission otherwise,.

F

Right well, I today, today or yesterday I looked at cloud based documentation and I found that uh cloudbase documented exactly the same approach which I was using while running docker image well very similar. I didn't compare exact uh notation but well. It was encouraging use that well they're using different image, of course, but the way how they run. uh It is very similar, okay, pleased to do another business.

C

Yeah and all knowledge- and you are writing and studying it's related to jenks io- there is in some place there to everyone check or is another site. Where is it published?.

F

uh It was published on our jenkins dot io. We have our tutorial section um on our.

A

C

So the tutorial sections.

D

C

B

C

B

Yes, yes, so I'll I'll embed the link to it, jonathan because it's I think it's quite elegant and it's, for example, build a java app uh here. Let's just do it this way.

C

I believe it's the.

B

Entire using a bill using build tools section- and there are four tutorials that use the uh use, the materials.

C

F

F

And again, this is just for tutorials. I think I mentioned that uh uh like put note, asking people not to use it for production environment, it is just for tutorials to let people get familiar like how to use jenkins inside docker and from there how to use all options of declarative pipelines. Well, all I have tested all just docker options.

B

Thank you any any other topics on docker for docker, for the.

B

F

Well, there is, I think I uh there is inconsistencies I mentioned, didn't mention uh another port in for linux uh tutorials, but mentioned another port in windows, and I'm not sure uh do we need another port just for tutorials. My understanding not, but I thought I saw somewhere. They wanted to mention another port, I'm talking about jlp port, what we usually say just 50 000.

B

Yeah- I I don't know about, I would I don't know if that one is required, but if I recall correctly, when I worked on the python tutorial it because of the one of the utilities it was using, pi py installer.

B

It needed some additional some additional thing that the other tutorials didn't need. But I haven't. I haven't been back to that tutorial in quite a while, so there there may in fact be an extra port needed for that one, I'm not sure on the agent port.

F

To be honest, mark how I tested these implementation, I uh at some point of time- um well probably one or two years ago for to this uh simple java, modern app which we have or it was in different directory- and I extended this and put python stuff inside put different other things, uh some testing frameworks and combined python java, marvin everything inside one and did it multi-branch, and I was using this uh jenkins file in that multi-branch repository.

F

It was mine repository which I used to test this approach, and even with one uh port, it was a key run completely. All tests welcome, I mean yeah all this no test, but entire pipeline was completed successfully, um so excellent.

B

So that that that tells us, then, that the docker in docker technique that you used in the tutorial in the tutorial segments did not require a separate agent port. It was somehow establishing the docker the docker image execution. That's very nice! That's great! So we don't have the complexity of one more port in the command line, one more port to explain why very good.

F

My understanding that it was those agents which are called during declarative pipeline were ephemeral agents and it was communicating using socket connection which we used during running docker. This is my understanding but yeah great.

C

Very good and mark and vlad uh I, I was visiting a link in jinx.io in our site and I sent it in the the chat.

C

So maybe it should be interesting, uh put some link for vlad work on that page because it's specific to work with doctor. I I don't know just to link and page another yeah.

C

Yes, that's a very.

D

Good suggestion.

C

Yeah, yes, because when I I go to tutorials, there is no word docker on title, so I can figure out this specifically about docker or not. So if we link the work in that page specific page about docker, maybe help more the users.

B

Right right yeah, so I like that, because the tutorials are teaching specific techniques like maven and python and node, but they're using docker to do it, and so we we don't. We don't do a lot of highlighting ooh. This is docker, because what we're trying to get them to show them is look. Maven is easy and node is easy, but you're right we should link to. We should remind them that hey. This is also docker.

C

Yeah yeah, I I in the google, if you search about jenkins plus docker, uh that and solutions slash, docker page its show as a result, so to get more visibility for vlad works. Maybe it's good put all the links there.

B

I I like that yeah, that's especially since. Well so I'm on screen you'll see this getting started. Oh no, you don't I'm not sharing my screen. Let me share my screen. I'll show you my uh that solutions page because there's an example. Here it's got the getting started and at the bottom of that is jenkins, plus docker tutorial the tutorials that are in jenkins that I o are actually much better than this jenkins docker tutorial exactly so.

B

We we should just link to hey the maven maven and docker python and docker node.js and docker, and they are they're. Actually, I think superior to this, especially because this one goes to medium.com, which is now a paywall based site. So you you only get to look at a certain number of articles a month before they charge you, whereas if we point to our own documentation, it's it's absolutely.

C

So this link is appointed for medium.

B

It is right so that that jumps that jumps outside of our site.

C

Yes, that pay that page pay wow, it's really problematic. It's really not annoying for us right. Yes,.

B

Anything else on docker tutorials.

F

B

Note: okay, next next topic, then terminology fixes progress. Vlad. Do you want to to share with us how that's going.

F

uh Technology fixes, well, I fixed yeah. Actually uh those are your uh issues and thank you very much. It was so detailed, so precise. You mentioned the files which need to be changed and I uh just attempted to fix it, but there was another person I didn't notice, who was assigned to this issue.

F

uh I guess a couple days ago I tried to fix it on friday, didn't notice that he was assigned, and I like uh well provided comment. Well, there are more issues which we need to fix so like to tell the truth. I was doing this fix regarding um mapping uh master to controller, not mapping but replacing uh master with controller term, which we agreed. I guess sometime ago and uh well did this fix, but I realized that this person wanted to do this at some point of time.

F

So I extended this issue with another set of issues and used your issue kind of template, where you specify different files where we need to modify and then the same with a white list term where we need to well, we agreed to replace whitelist with allow list, for instance, provided different files.

F

um I guess I was referring to developer documentation. There is developer documentation section which has several files, but this was never implemented because I guess uh the pr was merged. Without implementing this, I thought that this person cosigned, who assigned, will be implemented, but it looks like there are different um other circumstances. So um what I'm thinking? I can, for instance, create a separate issue again doing this list and during our presentation on wednesday, we know how to fix it. For instance, this is one option which in case.

B

Well, that's yeah that that's a that would be a good example of hey we're going to we're going to build the jenkins at io site, I'm going to fix one item of terminology and then let's look at it good. I like that yeah.

F

Go ahead well, just mark. I wanted to mention that when we're building the site and uh creating this local docker image for running this site, it takes some time, so I'm just going to show how to do this. The make file, but I think I will not at least not uh build this darker image and citizen bill. They will just run it so like running takes less time than building, because there is not to waste people's audio.

B

Well, and, and if you get to a point where you need where something needs to take some time, I I will happily in involve you in a conversation at that point, asking you questions or doing things that will distract the audience a little bit with with oh, yes, I can answer that question while this is doing its building process.

B

So so just don't be don't be dismayed if, when when something starts, compiling oleg or I or even jonathan interject, and ask you a question hey, could you explain this a little bit while this is building it's it's a good excuse for you to be able to then talk a little bit more about a topic. While the build is proceeding while the whatever whatever process is executing.

F

Thank you mark. Thank you for the for your.

B

Support- and I one of the things that I observed- I did a terminology fix in jenkins core and it was it felt like. I was almost unraveling a ball of string. It felt like I was pulling on one thing and all of a sudden, all sorts of other things popped out. Oh, I have to think about that, and I have to think about that, because the code change that I made was it was only changing master to controller in the slave to agent or the agent to master configuration or access control. Page.

B

I thought oh, that's easy. I can do that in minutes and my I was just absolutely wrong. It was scary how wrong I was because of all the things I had to. Oh, it's also translated and it exists in russian and hungarian and turkish, and I can't do it. I speak none of those languages and and those kinds of things I was reminded.

B

This is non-trivial and it's okay, that it's not trivial. It's a good thing to do and we'll do it one step at a time and keep making progress.

F

Yeah actually without I was not, of course, touching multi-language support, but even with english language uh very well. There is obvious challenge because we need to fix documentation and there is a lot of code which, but you made very important uh observation in in the text of the issue, saying that it is accepted that documentation will be changed first before before the code, and I think it was very valuable and it encouraged me.

B

To start- and that is such a bold statement right because it's usually the other direction, I'm accustomed to documentation always lags code, always there's. Never, I don't remember the last time documentation led code, and, and so this that was a great excuse to say no in this case, we accept that the documentation may actually be better than the code. It's documenting stop complaining.

E

Except you have a problem because when there's something on the screen that says master and you're, referring to it as controller that we have stuff because there's stuff on screens, it still says slave and there's past.

B

And I have a slave and I agree wholeheartedly but I've I I came to the at least the personal resolution that that is not not nearly as fixable a problem as I would hope, because, if someone's using an older jenkins version and looking at current documentation, there's going to be a disconnect anyway, that's true- and so my excuse was I'm documenting for the future.

B

Now, that's that's okay. You should you should do that sounded like marketing or management or both and- and please don't fault me for either of those.

E

B

You do have something.

E

Where people are told about this terminology change, so they know, because they're going to run into old blogs and they're going to run into old developers who still use the old terminology right and right. But we've got.

F

D

E

There for them right, yeah,.

C

We do jonathan, you had a question: go ahead, yeah here in brazil, you you have uh in the past a bad experience, translating official terms, so here we prefer, for example, use the english terms or french and, however, when had they come because when you translate the things lost their context and make no sense so when when, in the case we translate, we put the translations but in front of we put inside parenthesis and the english term.

C

So, oh you, you put a as a link that point for that explication about the context. So we have a bad academic experience. For example, uh the elder the author publish a english book, so the live library just uh take the english and then convert everything for from english to portuguese.

C

So that's a catastrophic because you can't understand how they alter want to say, because that make no sense, so we prefer work in english in this that case,.

B

That, okay and that's, I find that fascinating because I think different different regions or different language language environments have very different experiences on that, because I think the japanese have bias towards and the french, I think, have the same pattern of translate. Everything must always use native word, but you're saying that the brazilian portuguese experience has been best to assure that both words are available, so kubernetes, for instance, when you see their their documentation translated into portuguese they'll use the word controller and and then show the portuguese form.

C

Yeah we prefer use controller uh because, for example, in portuguese control a door can mean several things, so there is no context, for example, uh so literary translations from english make no sense to us, so we prefer, for example, use the english term as a new term, not the literary tradition translating because this.

E

I think even the japanese do some of that they got into it with code because, like we didn't rename um library functions and stuff, we never localized those. So if you're going to open a file, it's open and print is printf and those. So I think so the technical communities very early got used to using the english terms there. So then it extends when you're talking about stuff.

E

I once saw japanese man pages for unix, and this was eons ago when things were pretty primitive and there was a lot you know so there you could just see the character set. There were all sorts of english words on there in the middle of sentences and stuff.

C

For example, just first just example, for example, the word nightmare with we translate to portuguese and it becomes something near of a horse of the night, so I have no sense read nightmare translated for portuguese, so we prefer to use nightmare.

E

Yes, I love it.

B

This is, this is a pony, a pony in darkness. Yes,.

D

That's what nightmare.

A

C

When I have a very.

B

Frightening dream: it's a pony in the darkness, so.

C

For example, is that that, but it's another word, it's different.

B

Okay, that's literal translation is a terrifying thing. That's great!

B

Okay! Thank you. Any any other topics on terminology updates.

F

Well, just add to your point that in case, if we'll be waiting uh until all code will be uh updated with new terminology, then probably uh will be forever and uh will be able to fix documentation, probably next century or something like this. Well, I hope it will be sooner, of course, but uh there is of course incredible point in uh making this updates and documentation and making this note that you read about like it's accepted.

B

Excellent great yeah, thank you and and there's there's an enormous amount of work to do they're both on the code and in the documentation. So we we should just plan to continue discovering those things and fixing.

B

Excellent, thank you. So if you can, if you can both join so vlad and jonathan, if you can both join about 15 minutes prior to the start of the webinar on wednesday, that would be great. It gives us a chance to test that your equipment's working that we've got all the right controls, etc.

B

Then, if you're unavailable to join at that point- and you join just on the hour, we'll still get you in just fine, it's just easier on everybody. If you've come a few minutes arrived a few minutes early.

D

B

All right, that's all that I had anything else.

B

Okay, end of meeting I'll post, the uh the recording in about an hour thanks, everybody.