Jenkins Documentation Office Hours, 21 Aug 2020

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From YouTube: 2020 08 21 Google Season of Docs startup for Jenkins on Kubernetes

Description

Jenkins project community bonding meeting with Zainab Abubakar, Kristin Whetstone, Oleg Nenashev, and Mark Waite discussing and planning the community bonding phase and greater details for Google Season of Docs in Jenkins.

Jenkins on Kubernetes is the project. Planning in greater detail will be discussed at the next Jenkins Docs SIG meeting, Friday Aug 28, 2020

A

Could turn on the recording so that we've got a record of it as well all right so topics, um let's see so, we've got community bonding.

A

For the next for about a month right.

B

A

And then project for, I believe, it's 11 or 12 weeks for basically three months, uh and so I assume that the first question is: how do we achieve community bonding? How do we make sure that that's successful and then go from there?

A

What other topics should we put on the list.

C

Well, yeah: I can just put common topics address in a google summer of code, so firstly, it's communication channels. So it's a meetings mailing, please, if needed chats, then another important topic is actually stakeholders so getting as many contributors as possible.

C

Also, of course, knowledge transfers when needed. Getting permissions and required infrastructure.

C

Planning of the project.

C

Last but not least, actually socializing the project.

C

So yeah these are main things we are doing during community bonding. I might have missed something but yeah. There is definitely a lot of work during community morning and this is actually brings up to. The first question I would like to discuss is about availability.

C

So yeah during community funding, everybody has different capacities. Some people have vacations. Of course. uh In your case, uh he also uh just got announcement about google season of dogs, so, of course we need to adjust our plan, the uh the main assumption in google uh summer, of course, and same for g-sort, but we are not available, full-time or anywhere close during their community bonding.

C

At the same time, we want it to happen smoothly, so it's important to have communications and to ensure that we can find a proper meetings and meeting times that we know about each other's availability. So, for example, I can go ahead. I can say that in the beginning of september I disappeared for two weeks because I go on vacation.

C

Yeah, so it's yeah just two weeks, so it's just an example and if somebody else has such major commitments or major unavailability plans, you could share them.

A

Yeah- and I should just alert that I'm I'm mark is primary jenkins in for a right for the for a while here in for support, therefore tends to be distracted by that, uh so I may not have particularly during community bonding. I may not be as responsive as I'd like to be, but I'm I'm not on vacation just at risk of heavy load, all right so, and that is.

A

Any you said you were moving that you're changing location that probably will affect your availability. Are there other things where you'd like to note during the period up until september, 13.

D

um No aside, the fact that next week, from monday to sunday, though I'll be available, but not as much as I would like, because I'm traveling around the pit. But if there is anything I'll be available.

A

Yeah yeah it's and it is perfectly fine, particularly during community bonding right oleg. Can you help me be sure I understand I think community bonding is intended. Is it's okay that it's not the same level of time? Investment as during the project phase during the project phase, it's relatively heavier than community bonding community bonding is the.

C

Getting started.

A

C

It's expected at the same time, yeah to have the project efficient community bonding has to happen because yeah I've been participating in gsoc for five years by now, and basically, community bonding is the phase when the majority of projects fail, even if the failure effectively happens later, so we still need to organize it. At the same time, many communications can actually happen and synchronously so yeah commonly our recommendation for projects is to do as many discussions as possible in many increase, etc.

C

uh Historically, still projects tend to use chats more but, for example, chats are also kind of asynchronous, and you don't have to have a meeting to discuss everything, so it would be one of the ways to actually ensure that we can move forward but yeah. As mark said, uh it's expected that we have less availability.

A

Great okay, so you mentioned communication channels. Xenob is getter accessible to you. Is that a workable communication channel for you as a getter getter for chat.

B

A

Okay, so I'm going to paste a um a url to the getter chat for the docs. I think that maybe it's a low enough uh low enough volume, a low enough traffic channel that I think we could reasonably use it well do has that, as your experience hinted, that that would work or should we do a dedicated channel for um for google season of docs.

C

It depends on how intensive it is so again, this is the first time you participate in a google season of dogs but yeah. I would start from a single channel, at least for community bonding, and if we see that it doesn't work, we can move out in jsoc. The most of uh projects actually have separate channels, um but again documentation. 6 channel, firstly, is quite active, but at the same time it's not something like you have them once of them.

C

Two messages could be there, so I think it could be sustainable and for me, at least for sure, it's not to use the docs one.

B

I wouldn't mind you even also having things in the getter chat, because it would kind of pull in other people. Who might you know, be interested or have be able to review or have other comments so just keeping it open. For so many people who'd be interested.

A

Now now is there a is there a getter chat, that's focused on kubernetes, or is that a slack channel I mean is we could consider doing the theming this instead around kubernetes rather than around docs? In that sense,.

C

Okay, so one thing that uh there is a dedicated channel for jenkins in kubernetes luck, so this one of the options we could consider at the same time, so kubernetes lock isn't managed by jenkins community, and it means that if you need any changes and integrations, it might be difficult plus. That channel is actually quite active.

A

ah Okay, so we would be easily we could more easily get lost in that channel, be overwhelmed by volume.

C

Yeah but it's uh something worth exploring at least it's definitely a good place to be for contributors.

C

Because most likely, this channel could be used to facilitate feedback, for example, one of the things we could do during community bonding uh contracting stakeholders etc. We could launch a kind of survey to see what actually users expect from documentation.

C

What are the key areas and for such options, yeah using existing community channels is a good thing to do.

A

ah Right: okay, that's I like that so survey the community, the kubernetes slack channel. uh We may not then use it for detailed communication with each other, but that's a great place to get.

C

Excellent okay: it can be a great place, for example, for getting feedback or maybe asking some questions, because here there is a lot of benefits experts there. So again it's uh it's, definitely a channel where we should be at the same time, whether it's a main channel.

C

Personally, I wouldn't vote for that. But again during community bonding, we can review options and make an indicated choice because, right now we don't have enough data to say.

C

A

Any now you had noted stakeholders any guidance there, oleg in terms of stakeholders and.

C

Should you finish with communication channels? Oh yes, yes, please go ahead because we haven't discussed meetings ah so yeah for meetings how we usually approach in jsoc. We recommend the teams to have two meetings per week during the coding implementation phase and we recommend to start setting up these meetings during community bonding for gsoc. I'm not sure what would be the currents.

C

I think that it makes sense to just utilize existing uh documentation seek meetings where possible. For example, we are not sure about mark's office house but office hours at something like 10 pm, utc on monday site yeah. Obviously I can't participate there, uh I'm not sure about using that, because when they similar time zone, but it really depends on personal availability but yeah, we can definitely find slots and my recommendation would be to target weekly meetings, maybe not the next week, if you're moving but a week after it makes sense to start having meetings.

D

But I'm sorry, I just wanted to confirm on the meeting times there's um meetings that happen on mondays- um that's um very late, so I might not be. It might not be consistent for me because sometimes here, I'm awake, but sometimes I'm already at sleep, because I think it's around like 12 a.m.

D

They're about here.

A

Suggestion was that we consider either a thursday thursday midday your time or a some other day or we could. We can do absolutely that monday session is not expected that you would attend because it is so late. It's that's very much a north america north of an america's center thing and it's after the working day in most of the americas.

A

So it's intentionally very, very late and we know it's impossible for europe and for africa. So so absolutely you're right. You are not expected to attend monday.

C

Yeah need to do is to actually maybe create a doodle for the weekly.

A

Slot I like that, let me do that.

C

C

Another important meeting we need to discuss is documentation seek meeting. So I guess the next meeting is this friday right.

C

uh Do you plan to do it mark.

A

I plan to cancel it for this week or just to call it that we're our week. Our weekly office hours are sufficient so, but we could hold it if it would help.

A

Past attendance has been lighter than the office hours, and so I'm I'm more prone to cancel the that friday morning, one friday a month and continue the weekly office hours at zenob. Would you be available this friday? Would that work for you? It would be friday at let's see is which, which time zone are you in xenob.

D

A

Gmt, plus one okay, so same time zone as you are oleg right, your gmt plus one.

C

Yeah plus two like this.

A

Okay, all right, so let me do a quick look at the calendar. I think.

C

So it was unknown utc vertical correctly.

A

Yeah, so it is, it would start at this at the same time as this meeting did today on friday,.

D

Okay, that's that's.

C

A

Okay, well so then, so then, and are you? Are you of it you're available that at that time seen up so we could just use that time as one of our meetings.

C

A

All right, great yeah.

C

So one thing about that is that so, if you do it this week, then yeah we can announce the project in the menus, et cetera, invite people, but I'm not sure that we will have a lot of training on such short notice.

C

So maybe maybe one of the options is not doing it tomorrow, but doing it next week.

A

And and sorry, oh, like I misspoke, it is actually scheduled for next week all right, so my my mistake so zenob, I assume it's. Okay. Are you available next friday at at this time.

D

Yes, I will okay.

A

Sorry about that oleg it was next friday at so so that's the scheduled time. It's on the 28th of august 2020.

C

Actually, it will be me who is unavailable because I have devops vote recording at this time: ah okay, no, but yeah. If I finish early, I will join.

C

A

And zenob, if you find that that time well, we'll do the doodle poll to find a time, but that friday, friday time works great for me and and we'll we'll do the poll to see if we can find a point where weekly meetings will work.

C

Okay, so speaking of that yeah, we really need to start contacting stakeholders earlier. One of the ways is to actually announce the project, so I still have an option open action. I can't announce it in jenkins social media because well, I was waiting for google to fix the json site, but yeah. More importantly, we should rather known city and basic and in the junkies developer market list and yeah, maybe in cloud native, seek as well, because it's highly likely that you will get some contributors out of there.

C

So yeah, my question is: who would have something wise to do the announcements.

C

I could do that.

A

So let let me take the announcement piece. Oleg um okay, I was I was going to proffer, one more, which I would love to have a blog post, introducing um herself and the project and would think we would beg zenob for that. But I can do the announcements.

A

So the when we say jenkins social media- that's really uh twitter linkedin. uh Should we do something on the facebook account as well? I don't remember if we've got access.

C

Yeah I have access to there, but yeah facebook is dormant right now. Okay, basically we can do it later: okay, but yeah anyway yeah. So the announcement is intended to facilitate okay. So it's not to break about the project, but actually to invite people to join right.

C

And yet guess blog post would be not about the same.

C

But yeah blockbuster it's a bit flexible. You can do multiple things.

A

Well, and would it be acceptable if zenob also used the blog post? Maybe it's a maybe it will confuse things but to introduce she codes, africa. I think that's! That's such a such a cool concept that hey I'm zenob and I'm I'm here, but I'm also involved in other things and.

D

Yeah, that sounds great.

C

Benefit was already covered to some extent in the cd foundation blog post, but yeah. I believe that the content could be duplicated.

C

Has published a blog, which it wasn't too much about? uh She calls africa but yeah. I agree that it's perfectly fine to advertise other.

C

B

Oh good, okay,.

C

Okay, and also, we need to announce it in the developer. Man at least oh right yep, because yeah developer magnet list is basically the main, the central, uh magnificent contributors.

C

I would rather say that the name is a bit obsolete because yeah, the name with uh yeah. Basically, we have developers, we use it for all kinds of governance, matters etc. So it's basically jenkins central, um but yeah. You haven't never renamed.

A

It yeah it's anything, anything that isn't specifically a user question tends to end up there right now.

C

Our governance.

A

All we talk about documentation there yeah.

C

You're right, so it's basically something you contribute that increased and not all contributors are developers.

C

Okay. So uh what tails.

A

There was, was it torsten walter um as a as a possible coach or or an orientation session? Is that in this section or should we consider that part of knowledge transfer.

C

It's basically contacting maintainers and key stakeholders so yeah in the community. We have a number of contributors who are active in kubernetes related components. There are also external companies, for example, helen charts are currently external and torsten basically works on a helm chart but yeah. We could contact these contributors directly and to invite them to participate in particular areas, etc.

C

Okay, so we actually going to be over time a bit.

A

Yeah, let's do a check.

B

A

You have a heart set.

B

I do I have a hard stop at 9 30, so.

C

I have 13 minutes more okay,.

B

And of course, I have.

A

Yeah, I have 30 minutes more z. Knob. Are you available for additional time or should we schedule do we need to schedule another time when we could meet.

D

No, let's continue. Okay.

A

Okay, sorry kristen! Thank you for being here. Thank you. The notes are available to you and the recording will be posted a little later.

B

All right, great thanks and welcome to knob. Thank you.

A

B

See you all later.

C

Bye, okay, so what else about the stakeholders um yeah? I think that it's.

C

Yeah, you need to spend some time uh to build the full list. Do you want to do it now.

A

No, no, we can gather it later.

A

A

C

A

Oleg, it may be better that you do it rather than me, I'm not sure I I'm confident I do not know which are the key contributors in that area, and your experience with cloud native sig will help a bunch.

C

Okay, yeah: I will do that but yeah anyway for us it can be gradle. So it's not like. We need everyone to be contacted next week, because at least my vision for the project is that we would actually need to start from setting up a skeleton on the stretch for the communication, and we would proceed to specific topics after that. But again it's my division and it's subject for discussion, but I'm not sure whether you want to discuss it today or next week, but yeah. I think that.

C

We don't have to contact everyone overnight.

B

A

Anything else on stakeholders and onboarding contributors.

C

I guess for now it should be okay, somewhat related. It would be great to have a project page on the jenkins side, so pretty much similarly to how we do for.

C

Gsoc yeah, as in gsoc gsot, has two pages, so one is final report, which is likely a kind of blog post and another one is just project page, which could be a reference to this page and yeah. I believe that we could update docs, seek documentation and other locations to reference this project, because, yes, it will make it more discoverable, so separately, yeah the project, naturally maps to junkies roadmap. We have a jenkinson kubernetes item there. I have jenkins on kubernetes and documentation, seek projects list, so you can just crush this reference. It.

A

And that seems so is that one that it feels like zenob should handle the blog, that's a good place.

A

It may get her more familiar to work with the project to try to create the project page, but then again it may also be a an uncomfortable or a a daunting task. Do you have a sense? Is that something I should do or xenobs should do.

C

um It shouldn't be a big deal to create. I.

D

Think I think I can create the project page also.

C

D

I'll just ask for the ideas: if any.

C

All right yeah, so we have a root page for gsod, so you can just create something under this root. Okay,.

B

A

And see now, if you have already contributed to the jenkins, I o um site multiple times. So that's great okay. So it's not that there's any any ode. How do we? How do I operate with this you're already comfortable with that great okay?

A

A

Anything else on stakeholders and onboarding contributors.

C

Okay, that's fine! For now um they will likely need to talk about it a bit more once we see how many stakeholders we have, because this project may go in different directions, so one way is basically doing all the documentation compiling on documentation, uh separate ways to facilitating the things and helping others. So, for example, uh just ensuring that there is documentation, structure, helping colors to contribute particular feeds of the materials.

C

Yes celebrating a lot of documentation, but at the same time rather making it a group effort in the community but yeah, we will be able to make this decision on the approach. Once we see how many contributors are actually interested great.

A

All right knowledge transfer, then.

C

A

I like the idea of a skeleton of the document, socialized um zenob, have you had experience in the past with kubernetes.

D

A

Now, in terms of one of the things I was assuming was a session with torsten and others would be a good knowledge transfer.

C

Yeah, it would be, though, again I'm not sure what it has to happen during community bonding, because um it's about health charts so yeah there are two options: do it and during community bonding, I will do it when we actually start working on this area.

A

Right a good point: it's perfectly okay, that during the project phase from september onward that lots of work happens there, okay, yeah, so.

C

Still, if you do it in uh durian community morning phase and plus one, and if you prefer this approach, we can actually do that or we can schedule it. Let's see yeah, I'm not sure. Where would it be according to the project one but yeah most likely it will be closer to the second part of the project.

C

So what would be your preference there.

D

I think I love to have the sessions the sharing sessions.

C

D

Sorry, do you ask questions on the sessions.

C

Yes, so when do you prefer to have them are doing community bonding yeah.

D

During community bonding.

C

C

So then we could right.

A

Yeah, the and the one challenge there is we're in august, and many people are on vacation in august. So there's a risk. It won't make it during community bonding. But knowing that it's preferred, we can try to try to get those scheduled and planned.

C

Yeah, I can uh discuss it with some but yeah. I think that it would be rather beginning of september, and it means that somebody else would need to host it because it's not like, I cannot host it during the vacation.

C

I actually would be happy to do so, but at the same time I can't commit on any internet quality.

A

Well- and I I like I, that's when I would love the excuse personally- to host it, because then I could listen and learn while torsten and zenob are discussing.

C

Okay, so, okay, so I guess I can take action item to actually kick off the discussion, but yeah then I can transfer it to you so that you can continue and set the lead. Okay.

C

And yeah, I guess we need a similar on kubernetes plugin.

C

So then your plan.

A

So does your? Does your plan start with or have a key component of using the kubernetes plug-in, and I assume it does.

D

C

Yes, because a natural evolution is that we start from kubernetes plug-in then jenkins to kubernetes.

C

So for that we had a knowledge transfer by mark jackson in may. Well, it was online meetup, but it's quite straightforward. This foundation implementation then yeah. You can present two helm, charts and, for example, jenkins kubernetes, separator.

C

And yeah also a lot of other plugins like kubernetes cd plugin, so yeah, I'm just.

C

So basically, it boils down to two areas. uh One is sorry.

C

All right, yeah so.

A

Should I repeat it, I think I think it was just background noise on cnab's microphone, so I think you can go ahead.

C

Or like yeah, so again we still need to plan uh how we approach to the documentation, how we structure that but yeah generally there are two main parts: one is running jenkins and kubernetes.

C

Another one is more user side is actually running payloads and junkies pipelines in kubernetes or, let's say, deploying applications for kubernetes. So there are basically two components of the documentation and we can do knowledge transfers separately. We can split it. Two phases.

C

C

So, for example, we could meet next week and spend time specifically on actually reviewing the plan, because, yes, an app already has a great plan in the application. So we should use it as a base together.

C

But again we could discuss what would be the main deliverables etc, because it would be important for community bonding and it's important that when we start the implementation, we actually have some vision where we want to.

A

Be I I like that that would that would allow us to let if that's okay, xena with you, the doc sig meeting next week, would be almost entirely focused on uh discussing and reviewing refining the plan that you've already assembled as part of the the application to google season of docs? Would that be okay with you.

D

D

A

C

A

Now permissions and infra- uh oh like that, was one that I was concerned about. Can you give some insights or suggestions.

C

There, okay, so for permissions most likely, we don't need special permissions right now, because yeah there is jenkins io website and unless we decide to create a media site for kubernetes documentation.

C

So if we just target putting the documentation on jenkins ion, there is no need in special permissions.

C

For infrastructure is a it's a bit more different because for infrastructure yeah, one of the ways is to actually run everything in mini cube on this similar service locally, but yeah. It's most likely that you will have to at least run some components uh during your project.

C

So that's why I wonder whether we should consider having access to cluster or whether we find this deployments in.

A

Minicube and I would assume that she'll need cluster access for just the nature of the the surprises that I expect to come, or the things that are more complicated than will work with just mini cube.

C

Well, for me, it's firstly, a part of the plan because, let's say we want to write a section about how to run jenkins in aks. Okay, then you have. We need to have a eks account, but if you want to just proofread guidelines for kubernetes plugin, most likely you can get away with mini queue.

C

So that's why I'm not sure whether we have answered now, but this is definitely a question you will need to answer during the community bonding phase, because if you want to provision infrastructure somewhere for testing, then it implies some costs and it means that we need to secure budgeting for that, etc.

C

So we have our budgets in the jenkins project, but it really depends on what we need to deploy and how? What do we have other options so yeah? That's why it's rather preferable to do different community bonding because it may take a few weeks.

C

If you do it, when we need it, then there is a high risk of the project being.

B

A

A

Dnap does that make sense to you you're comfortable with that that next friday will we would love to have a discussion and include that topic in the discussion.

D

C

Yeah, so I guess we went through here items and except socializing the project but yeah within the basically country stakeholder outreach which we discussed before is smallest, covers it for now right.

C

um So any other topics you see missing for the community bonding.

A

None that I see zinab any from you.

D

um None from mine.

D

Not from my end.

A

Great yeah, thank you. Super.

C

So if you see something uh just let's discuss synchronously so again, uh the main objective is to basically ensure that you have everything you need to start the project and that we prepare the environment, that we are comfortable with what we are doing and we empower to do what we need. So again, if you see anything, just bring it up, no need to wait until the next meeting.

C

C

Hopefully we will be able to resolve many things in synchronously.

A

Great excellent that covers all the topics that that I had hoped and far beyond well done. Thank you, zenob. Any other topics, you'd like to add before we close before we conclude.

D

No, I think I'm good.

A

All right, thank you. Then I will. I will go ahead. Let's we'll end the meeting and I'll upload the recording uh and the notes. You should have a link to them. If you do not, I will certainly post a link to these notes uh in the uh in the chat, yeah.

C

So, regardless recording, actually, there are two options: firstly, we upload it and make it public like we do by default for project meetings, or we can actually just keep it unlisted.

C

So, basically both ways work and for me, whatever works, any preferences.

A

I've I've liked public, but I'm okay with unlisted unlisted, will still allow zinab to review at any time. And anyone who has the link to review it so yeah either is great.

D

It is great for me to public on this stage. Both are comfortable with me.

A

Okay, so if, if you're not if you're not uncomfortable with public, I'm biased towards public myself, so I I would tend to upload it public. So, let's just assume I'll go ahead. Public.

C

Okay, that's fine.

A

All right thanks, everybody. Thank you very much and we will meet next friday at this same time, so, eight days from now and discuss further and we'll have interactive, chats and conversations either in chat or the mailing list between now and then thanks xena. Thank you for joining.

D

Thank you thanks mark.

C

Looking forward to work with you in the next several months.

B

C

Here all right.