Jenkins Google Summer of Code Office Hours, 24 Mar 2022

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From YouTube: GSoC Office Hours [EMEA] - March 24, 2022

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GSoC Office Hours [EMEA] - March 24, 2022

A

A

Is it recording.

B

A

Okay, because I don't have the visual clue here um good evening, good afternoon, good morning, everybody. So this is the uh so-called emea g-sock uh office hour meeting where we meet to.

A

Discuss any open questions doubts that we have related to the jenkins google summer of codes.

A

I believe we have two topics for uh today: first, a general one that we have every time on the agenda. It is any questions from potential contributors, questions going on and uh more specifically, are there any questions about creating and publishing a preliminary contribution proposals so, to start just to know um the the who we're dealing with so around the table. We have chris, who is one of the org admin very active he's located in hong kong time zone.

A

We have mark who joined, who is in the mountain region of the united states so early morning for him good morning mark and then so I am uh jean-marc mason uh and I'm located in brussels, uh belgium and I'm an org admin.

A

So we have uh three other attendees in the group, so we have uh jihan uh just to locate uh so you're, probably in india, and give us a couple of words.

C

Who, where so, I am in india, and I am from maharashtra- I am currently a college campus in indore, which is in madhya pradesh state.

A

Okay and uh you intend to submit a proposal.

C

uh Yes, you could expect the draft within a day or two, I'm almost done with that. Okay.

A

Good uh just going around the table, we have also adita aditya. So I I'm sorry if I butchered the the names of first names. I try my best and I hope at the end of the summer, I'll get it right go ahead.

D

No no problem, john I'm added there. I was a google summer of code student last year, so this year I've volunteered to be a mentor for one of the projects. um This is my first official google summer of code jenkins meeting that I've joined and uh yeah I'll be happy to answer any questions that any contributors have so I'll also be willing to do uh some reviews of the proposal and from our governments and mark uh I'll, uh because you have to help me and guide me. How can I help others better? That's why.

A

Very good, very nice to to meet you virtually and uh thank you for uh um helping us uh in this adventure and working together. We we have also uh diraj uh yeah diraj uh on the call.

A

uh Now I fear I have okay. Can you talk raj.

E

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You're, not the one attending the course.

E

uh I didn't get you sorry, no.

A

E

A

Who planned to attend uh the the meeting but was just going to listen because he was attending uh a course at the same time, so go ahead rash? Who are you? Where are you and what is your interest.

E

Sure so I'm d rich and I am currently working with red hat as associate software quality engineer and I'm working from navi mumbai, which is in india, and why I'm here is because I wanted to you know just I'm interested in one of the g-socks project called plug-in health score and another one for screen, shot. Automation, and uh just here discuss about that.

E

And yes, that's the main thing and also to listen about what others have to offer here as well. So thanks for the opportunity.

A

Okay, great thank you for for joining and thank you for your interest. Drunch, we'll I at the end, I will get it right. Okay, and I see we have the last uh uh attendee here. I think it's it's said giving gong. So do you hear us, and could you tell us who you are?

A

Where are you located and what is your interest.

A

You mean, I, I fear you either. You did not understand us or you're unmute or unable to talk.

A

Okay never mind you can chime in and eventually join with, with the chat. Welcome aboard. Thank you for free interest, uh uh old, okay, I'll I'll move on on the discussion. I will jump for the the second agenda and item and then open up the discussion so from what I've seen.

A

uh People don't have issues or find out a way to create and publish preliminary contribution uh proposals. So are there questions on that subject's difficulties or any doubts on that subject?.

F

So, john mark, I am delighted that we've had several already posts to community.jenkins.org io with their google doc and now I'm a little embarrassed. I haven't done the reviews yet so I haven't. I've got to get started on the reviews, but but I've seen that they've been posted and that's good. That's really really good.

A

I really appreciate that yeah I wanted, and this was in fact the first thing I wanted to say, but thank you for chiming in on on that mark, so we have already a couple uh they're good and it there is also a confirmation that it's worthwhile to share these presentations so that we have a first look at them. So I started looking at several of them.

A

I encourage everybody around the table here to read them and do comments either a contributor or mentor read the documents and any fresh eye on it will help the people to make a better and stronger proposal. So it starts to look good.

A

A general comment that I have seeing it from from the outside, be careful on the structure of your document, so it will make the document more easily to more easy to read and more powerful, so take care. Otherwise continue like that and encourage everybody to to review. Add comment: if you're not familiar when you have a google doc document, there is on the right, a small uh plus. um No, I am editor from that document here. It does not work. There's a small plus point that will appear when you select.

B

Something yeah.

A

There and now this is a french-speaking browser. I apologize for that. So when you click here, you can open up here a small window where you type your comment related uh to uh the the text that you highlighted. So this is the way to comment and say something uh on a given document.

A

Other questions related to creating these documents to publish them or whatever.

A

So I believe that currently there are no pending questions. I've seen the people managing and going ahead quite well. So it's very pleasing: don't hesitate to post questions on uh either community jenkins, dot, io or on the getter channels. Ask and we're now in a very important process where we need to steer ideas and get creativity going.

A

So that was an important point I wanted to do so now. I open up the discussion.

A

Any questions comments, doubts on any subject.

F

So I see that dhiraj has put a question into the document that I might offer as a as a candidate to use a technique. So dear roger's question was: how do we do data collection phase in a scalable way for the plug-in health score idea?

F

I wonder if we ought to use a technique with the plug-in health score idea, similar to what we just tried with automated maintenance of git caches.

F

What I did was I hosted a one-hour brainstorming session around that around that project idea. Automated maintenance would get caches and we had four or five of us chris stern joined and two or three candidates joined, we recorded it and it gave us a chance to talk about all sorts of things in that one hour doing a brainstorming session. I wonder dhiraj. Would you be interested in that kind of a one-hour brainstorming session with the people who are doing plug-in health score idea, similar to what what was done with the git caches idea?.

A

Garage, if you want to speak, don't forget to unmute.

F

That's okay, just to type the answer too, or or maybe what I should offer is, let me let we could discuss it in the getter channel. If, if that feels interesting, I felt I felt personally that the brainstorming session we did was quite useful.

F

It was useful to me, as a git maintainer, to think about what should this be, and I think the the potential contributors the potential participants found it useful as well, because it let them offer their ideas and get suggestions and have good conversations about what does this mean, and what does that mean? So we we did a one-hour exercise around that document.

F

A

So I I second that idea, I'm going to uh repeat it on the getter channel and get that organized, because I think it's a good proposal.

F

So so, chris any insights from you there in terms of, were there things we should do differently in that brainstorming exercise or that we, I know you were there and you were an active participant thanks very much for being so.

D

F

B

I think maybe we could structure it a little bit more. So it's like prepare some kind of like um specific topics, sub topics to discuss before.

A

Okay good point: how do we gather subtopics by questions on the getter or.

B

Yeah because I see some like quite a lot of questions asked on gita, especially about the automated magnets, get caches.

A

So make a summary of them as a starting structure for the brainstorm.

B

um It's like yeah.

A

Okay, it sounds like a good proposal.

A

A

Other questions topics to discuss, don't forget that we we do particular uh we. We have particular attention uh that we record these sessions so that everybody can either go back to what has been said uh or watch it if he was not able to attend because of time zones or availability.

C

Are there other? I had a question about the document template so that we have a section that says that note. The dates and gsa timelines take precedence over this document and there is timeline with the details of that provided.

C

So I was wondering whether that is just for our information or do we have to fill in stuff with that so because we have a proposed schedule, that's a different headline, a different heading in in that we have the writer's schedule. So I was wondering what that headline. What the above section was about.

A

uh The line was poor, so I'm going to try to rephrase it, but it will probably be uh wrong. So the the question was about uh the the contributors proposed timeline to to do his project.

A

So could he come with an other proposal than the one than the default one presented in the document? Did I rephrase that correctly or can you.

C

No actually, I is it is my voice clear now.

F

C

Okay, so I meant to say that uh above the proposed schedule section uh there is there are some points related to which phase has to do with what so, what what is expected from that there are some open-ended questions. Also in that paragraph, so I was wondering what that was about. So are you supposed to answer those questions, or is that just for providing us some insight into creating the proposed schedule? Writing under the proposed schedule, heading.

A

Okay, I'm going to.

B

Can somebody start answering? Well, I think those are just suggestions. You can come up with like other questions and ask them yourselves like if, if you think they help us to um like to like see how your timing is gonna be like right.

A

This is what I uh wanted to say: where's the document.

B

F

Bullet item three use the project proposal template, I think, in application steps. Yes there. It is.

A

Okay, so uh what is so? I I give it my uh my shot, so where is it is this?

A

B

Section you're, referring.

A

Yeah: okay, yes,.

A

Some of these dates are fixed deadlines, so these we cannot move because they're set by google uh other uh phases and the content uh of it. So so what you're putting in what phase and so or if you need to plan a holiday or something like that. This is the place where you would mention it so to come back to the initial question.

A

This is for information rephrase it. So um uh this is just for guidance uh and and come with. Your own proposal have a look also to how the others uh filled in uh the the their proposal. The temporary proposal now how they did, but this is just a reminder of what we're expecting so the start is fixed coding begins, which is june 3rd 13th.

A

There is the intermediate evaluation, but I think this can. I need to look at the the exact rules. This can be shifted around and the the end, the final evolution evaluation on beginning of september.

A

These are fixed, but this is just for a reminder, so you don't need to repeat all that. This is just say there what's important for you. For instance, I need to leave for two weeks because.

A

I don't know going to marry or whatever.

A

Well I have important examples. Does that answer your question.

C

Yeah, so actually, the reason why I had was, I looked at a couple of couple proposals and other one by roshi kesh, in that this section was absent so from the node, the bold line to the proper schedule, the content between it was absent. So doing perhaps if that is just for our reference.

A

So in this template these are placeholders or there are a lot of placeholders in it and give you hints, there's no need to keep them if there is no edit a value just leave it as a reminder or the title.

A

But you need to add your own information because we're going to read this chunk, for instance, if everybody leaves it we're going to read that 15 or 20 times, and- and there is no added value put there, what is critical for your or important for your proposal.

F

So so I I would argue that the start date is important right, even though it's it's standard, the end date is important. The the of assessments, I think, there's a midpoint assessment right.

B

F

And those are important because those are given by google and absolutely include those but then refine, as john mark said, with your own dates down to like a week by week. If you can compose your project into week by week, plan yeah what we want to see.

A

Is I'm going to start with that? I expect it to take that amount of effort and time. Then I will do that or that we see the structure and how you're going to attack your your project.

A

This is what we want to see.

A

Right. Thank you.

A

A

Other questions comments.

E

Yes, just wanted to add one thing, so, first of all, I'm really sorry. For last time when mark was answering- and I was disconnected into network issues- so sorry for that- and uh yes uh mark replied with the suggestion to host a one hour- brainstorming session. So that's really helpful. So I have some questions so and I am in the process of making the proposal, so I would need to first of all write them down in a centralized place. Then I will be taking them those questions to the brainstorming session.

E

So that way it would be more um organized. So so, thanks for the idea, I'll ask the mentors on the get a channel for the timings and, whenever they're available just to require that.

A

uh Another technique you can use is eventually, if you have many questions, is create a small google doc document and link that document into the getter channel, so that we have a list that we can work, but getter is perfect. So this is lightweight and just ask we're going to copy them. But if you come with 20 questions and you need drawings and so we'll start a small document- and this can be the base for for that- I plan to move quickly.

A

uh I'm going to ask on giter also what is the appropriate time zone for it uh will probably be around this time so that china in india is, is well served. Hearing from the.

B

A

But I'm going to check that out.

E

Awesome. Thank you so much.

F

Good, so dhiraj we've got a few minutes here if you've got questions you want to answer. Ask now. John mark is one of the candidate mentors for plug-in health score. So you are certainly welcome to ask them now as well. Don't don't be shy about asking a question now.

E

Yes sure so um so the data, I'm sorry about the background noise dogs are crazy here, so about the data collection phase, it's mainly I've noticed that the main thing there is to scrape the palm.xml file of each plugin and collect what the current value they have and try to compare it with. What is the expected latest value that they should be having and accordingly try to find out and maybe calculate the score.

E

So that's what I was able to understand so correct me if I'm wrong so.

A

You're 100 on it.

E

Awesome, thank you.

E

So the one way I try to do it is by using regex and trying to traverse the whole xml structure of the palm.xml and just try to get the value of, let's say, jenkins, base version, and then I compare it with the latest, the two recommended ones and if so, that's the whole process, I'm following for a few, a few of them, and uh I'm like wondering like: where would we be storing these things, because eventually we want to uh display them on, let's say, plugins site uh whenever a user clicks on a score of a they want to know like how?

E

Why is this plugin? Has this much score? Where are the improvements so there we need to list right uh uh just this. This things needs to be improved so that data will be uh displayed on ui from some database. So can we can you give me some like basic rough idea on that.

A

um You know mark do.

F

You want me to rephrase this the question statement or well. Actually I was gonna. I was gonna invalidate one of the assumptions. Yeah are you? Okay? If I.

A

Go ahead and be.

F

So bold as to invalidate an assumption so dhiraj we we really like static websites and because we really like static websites- and I mean we really really really really like static websites. So.

A

F

Experience right, hard experience, plugins.jenkins.io is actually a static website, and so so it's generated by reading all sorts of data sources, but ultimately the thing that's that's generated is written to disk and used as a static website, and so so the the data capture, the data collection thing is actually not time critical that it must be lightning fast to respond with answers to to queries, because, yes, if it's, if it's painfully slow, it will slow down the generation of the site, but not the rendering of the site to the user who's reading, because the site that's rendered to the user is static.

F

So it's using fixed pages that were generated based on the results of those queries. So in terms of does it need to be a particularly scalable way to query? I don't think so we can. We can store in a standard database and we could store in in plain text files. If that makes sense. Does that? Does that address your question by by skipping the question or have I misunderstood.

E

Yes, it does. uh It gives me some things to think about and go forward with that. So uh another question on that like to collect the data for each plugin, I have let's say I have written some functions which check the value current values of it. So let's say if you want to check the current the current, not the current.

B

E

I want to run the maven update version parent the command so as suggested by you mark like weeks ago. I should able to first of all run it and then try to see what is the difference uh between the versions and before that. I'm really sorry, like the my questions are organized because I should have written written them down somewhere. But what I'm trying to say here is for each plugin. How do I run commands for it like?

E

Should I do a git clone and then run the maven commands and try to see what is the difference that this command is created and, accordingly rate the plugin, but doing great git clone on all of them would be little difficult time consuming.

F

The simple approach that you suggested is the one I would use. Initially I admitted yes, it assumes you've got high bandwidth, it assumes you and you probably want to do small mock-ups with a relatively few plugins, rather than starting with all all 1800, but but I, the simple approach you described is one that I would use now. There are ways with the github apis to query the contents of files. So you can you could if all you needed was the content of the palm.xml file.

F

You could query that yeah, but but if you need to actually perform a compilation, then you really need the source code for that and the git clone is a simple way to do it. Yeah.

A

I would I would go uh first with the cloning path and using the the github api is optimization so trying to find out ways where you don't need to clone, because this can be expensive uh for for some some projects. But I would use that that process if it works with the git clone in a second iteration. You can look at how can I optimize and when time, if, if the complete process turns out to be too expensive, no one on 1 800 plugins, but it's an interesting dimension.

A

But uh I would use that that method.

E

Yes, that makes sense. Okay, so I'll go with first of all brute force. That's maybe you can say that way so get clone and then try to optimize it later with github apis. So thanks a lot.

A

D

Okay yeah, I was asking mark that uh for the second iteration of the health plug-in like the same case is discussing, I was asking mark whether it is possible to use some api for a jfrog artifact, for instance, because all plugins would be available there right. So we can somehow get the metadata from there. So we can skip cloning as well as reading through github.

F

Have a good point there that well and there it's a good point and there are compromises that you're choosing one versus the other, so the the plugins.jenkins.io site actually does read palm.xml files from artifactory. The limitation is what that's showing. You is only released versions and sometimes plugins have evolved quite a bit since their last released version, and what you want to answer is not the health of the last released version. You want to know the health of the tip of the current primary branch, so so absolutely repose.

F

That jenkins repo.jenkinsci.org is a good place to read, released information. Good point mark this point could be challenged.

A

uh Are we going to take the health of a given release or the health? Is it uh for the plug-in as a.

F

A

F

I think that's a that's an open question and I'm willing to have that we've sort of run out of time, but I'd love to have that conversation because I think that's a worthwhile conversation and it highlights an interesting question. Yeah.

A

It's it's a functional uh question worthwhile to to discuss and this strategy can be different here with we're running out of time here I thank you for the question and interactions I thank you mark for for chiming in and and giving uh your all these details.

A

uh One action point that I take on me is to get the uh brainstorm session about plug-in health going and want to organize it as soon as possible uh and- and the aim is somewhere in next week to have that going. So I will start the process on gitter asap.

A

Okay, thank you very much. Everybody don't hesitate.

A

Recommendations, read other people's temporary proposals and honestly comment them. We all learn from the process, everybody being mentors.

A

People that did contributors second thing: we organize brainstorm if there is a need or interest for other brainstorm sessions. Just let us know, and uh we want uh to have as much help as you can as you can and uh see you all, either online or during the next meeting, then I wish you a nice rest of the day to everybody.

E

Thank you. Everyone bye.

D

Okay, all right, thank you. Buyers.