Jenkins Google Summer of Code Office Hours, 2 Jan 2020

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From YouTube: Platform SIG 2020 01 02

Description

Jenkins Platform Special Interest Group meeting January 2, 2020. The "New Years" edition. Topics include AdoptOpenJDK hotspot, AdoptOpenJDK OpenJ9, Docker agent image renaming, Windows installer, docker image platform support adding CentOS 8 and Ubuntu 18, and Google Summer of Code 2020 project idea gathering and refinement.

A

This computer hi everyone I'm mark, wait old, magnin, ahsha and I are here with the platform special interest group meeting, thanks for being here, I'm going to start sharing my screen and let's look at the agenda.

A

So welcome to the new year edition of the platform special interest group, we're gonna really.

B

Into Christmas mode we can the humble participants, that's.

A

Right there are many of us: that's that's, okay, it's it's the day after the New Year's holiday. So we'll talk about open action items, give a report on the adopt open, JDK proposed transition and that project the adopt open, JDK, open, j9 image progress. If Alex Earle joins us, we may talk about Windows installer. We may need to skip it. Then we've got a general topic on broadening platform support and google Summer of Code 2020 project ideas, discussion that Oleg has agreed to lead any other topics we need to add or like and.

B

I, don't think so. I still need to catch up to use all the stories because yeah it was busy drinkin smokin other things. Well,.

A

And I I'm reminded- let me put an action item here- mark create an epic because really we've I like that, we're using JIRA as a way to track those things and they they justify an epic, because there are multiple tasks fighting and especially this hot spot transition or open, adopt open, JDK transitional in progress. So.

B

That you know play picks actually recruited one additional topic: okay, renaming the agent docker images. Oh oh.

A

Yes, yes, let's be right! I'm gonna insert that right here, so renaming.

B

A

Ssh, you say the agent docker images.

B

Exact them, so it's a part of for Jenkins, 48:42, 8610 I'll, add a link to the agenda: okay, yeah, so I spent some time, repaint Windows agents and disabled agents, plugins and finally, I'm ready to work on the images great.

A

All right so noted excellent, any other topics before we actually start working through the agenda topics, I.

A

Don't know so, okay, all right so on open action items, I apologize I still have the open item to create a jet for docker operating system, support and platform selection rules, two weeks and two weeks and I'll report on it again. Oh, like you, still got the item for a jet for Windows support policy. Now maybe I like there, the the governance, the next governance meeting. Is it one week from now two weeks from now.

B

Two weeks, it's son generally, if you cancel okay.

A

So next governance meeting, so so it would be really. This is a good time for me to create a jab, because then it's a category, it's a catalyst for a discussion in the governance meeting in about to eat. Good, okay, yeah.

B

We have pocket edge on the older game, but yeah okay, at least having these topics would be nice, though yeah one of the things is the job process, so that governance meeting, which it doesn't have say, budget, protest right right now. The job process is based on media file, not on the governance above okay, so for discussion. I would rather to just using comedian kissed, and if you need to sign off then yes, Dominus meeting like we did, for example, for web browsers last week last month,.

A

Okay, so discuss in the railing list.

A

I will do that. Thank you and I'm gonna put this these notes under the one that I've got it's the longest live action item I think I've ever had in my life, so I got to get on Thanks.

A

All right, we also had an action item on the windows installer code and signing it with Olivier.

A

Have you had any word on any progress from the continuous delivery foundation or whoever it is that needs to resolve our code? Signing questions non.

B

Progress I'm about king in them, but my head: basically, it's a Christmas break, so I wouldn't expect anything to happen to the next week right. Okay, all.

A

Right, thank you. Now, I am proud to know. One action item has been done. I for sure can confirm that I've been now been added as a darker maintainer Oleg. You are also a doctor maintainer right all.

B

Right so what we get a couple of weeks ago, we created a new hip, hop team which basically streamlined support for all filtered images. So all the kit images are currently managed by a single team, including Alex, Oh, Marc Nico, what the law geeky and maybe, if you are the contributors, so basically usual suspects from who used to make images before and it is regarding look at hard permissions. Basically, maintenance do not need them, but it so. The syncing.

A

B

Well, I would say that they might be required, for example, if you want to introduce a new platform and other things, but they are not quite in general, because we have continually before images, however, release Turks.

A

Right, and so if the end is that, for my information, is the continuous delivery using the trusted CI now.

B

So all the agent images again released from docker hub at the moment, Jenkins I kiss- you must I- mean master image. These cities, like trusted, say.

A

Right, okay, and that that is where the official master image was the long ago story about our needing to have much faster response time from in order to generate that master image in case of security. Fixes, for instance, trusted see basically.

B

The same problem applies to agents. Why you know get into a move for agent builds to trust. The CIA is mostly because of the access, because nobody from pod from seek and from doctor containers had access to trusted. Ci our big situation changed any recruit, reconsider it, but we it requires a my fault. Okay, yeah. You generally need to build the entire pipeline.

A

Okay, so I'll make another trusted, see I, also like the raster image right. Okay,.

B

It's not probably I think it should because I mean in that place to security concerns when we executed minutes for the mounting images- and we had a lot of issues to that before so I would rather complicated build the pipeline for images.

B

A

Is that one where an epic epic would be beneficial on moving the agent image generation process in the trusted? Cr I think.

B

There was a jitter task for that, I'm, not sure about it. So if you create an action item for me, I will try to find it out. Okay, because we definitely discussed it again when we were doing Java 11 support work because we hit all the same issue spent gather.

B

We are not sure whether it's an epic and we needed some epic I'm, not sure whether we have contributors father did for me day time now: okay, yep one thing which may require a spread on this topic is Windows images. Because, right now we didn't ship official images for Windows.

B

We have Jenkins file which basically publishes later on jank is for well, it's really a Chanel instance for doctor images. But if you want to ship official images, then we trust this guy, because in the current state of vodka, drink I wouldn't have to look at how to load images. I'm windows images, ah okay, so so I was issued so so.

A

Just to be sure, I understood what you're saying when we and I assume the day will come when we want the publish windows image in darker rise windows, you want to publish with them now we.

B

A

Alright and the thing that is needed, there is trusted CI work, not work on docker hub right. So look at how justice and support in between those images- and that part surprises me, because the adopt open, JDK, open, j9 folks noted that docker hub now supports series 390 and Oh Power PC 64 le. So the.

B

Big builds or platforms as you can publish a platform.

B

Which I mention.

A

ah Okay and and that I don't know the distinction of that, alright. So, but nonetheless, in any case, we would we we need the control that trusted. Ci gives us of publishing our own. Our own images right.

B

Actually, we also need to stop sending images at some point, because right now, Allegiant beam images are not signed and there is additional metadata, which is added to images and right now, I will try to consider our images as untrusted and official guide and by dr. that you shouldn't build building trust in which a Samba could help anyway,.

A

Okay, so so the other, the other thing, let me make a note of that. We need to build image, build. We need to sign images after building them. Well,.

B

We do not need to do that, but it would be definitely an improvement for some categories.

A

Of users, okay, so we should sign images after after building them for trust, security, etc, and that again is needs, certificates, etc. On trusted see, I will say that we.

B

Are not trusted sale likely, it will be another reduce environment, so use a work environment for jinkies images, I'm, sorry for Jenkins code and once it's ready almost like you have to deliver the peptide to that instance. Okay, so my understanding that it won't be a trusted CI anymore, once the project is completed.

A

Got it so so all right there we go all right so did I. Did that? Does that state it reasonably? Well then yeah.

B

I think the documentation I spent some time to write documentation for this environment in this number. The second link.

B

Perfect all right at least I try to share the link but doesn't get wasted.

A

I'm getting in the way there we go yeah.

B

A

B

Something sugars, my ear, lift up ideas, excellent all right. Thank.

A

You mm-hmm so next topic are ready to go to next topic from the action items. So next was the adopt open, JDK hotspot transition progress report. I've got the action item to create an epoch and I'll. Let me make a note of that.

A

There we go so the Victor Victor, Martinez and I had gathered some rough notes on that transition process and talked through them, and it feels like it felt like to us there's a lot of work involved in making that transition, but it's worthwhile.

A

My idea was to take this as as I guess, a baseline for a jet proposing the change is that the right, the right approach to because it's it's bigger than a single pull request? As far as I can tell it's.

B

Definitely bigger, firstly, because it involves mountain of inkmaster. It also involves agents if you want to complete the transition, so it's at least five to six selfies. It all is involved. Secondly, all kinds of various pipeline and testing questions in the equation and also the transition approach, because you can just add more configurations. In such case it can be a bit relaxed, but if you want to change the default configuration, then it becomes quite complicated and then I'll show what they are all in tension. Do we want to change in the default, but.

A

My initial thought was that we should change the default to insulate ourselves more effectively from operating system vendors breaking their jdk. However, that's there that's trading one form of breakage for another right. If we get an imperfect set of packages inside the Debian image, for instance- and it's not the same as the old packages and some user depends on it- they'll be broken, so I'm open to open to either it's just. It felt like if we just add a new one.

A

We have an even larger collection, then of docker images that we support and I'm not feeling especially strong that, oh, that that's the right approach, your your insights. What do you think I mean.

B

I'm trying to suggest replacing open, GDK views, ibuprofen GT key- if you do so, it has to be jab, that's for Shawn. It has to be signed off and the community, that's for sure and timing-wise it's better to do it after we finish code release, automation, right.

A

Right and I think that, given the amount of work involved, there is no way it could be done before core release. Automation is done, there's just there's too much to do in terms of new testing worrying about have we have we determined the correct set of things that we need to include and does adopt open JDK have the correct operating system definition for what we need right, yeah.

B

You can still introduce the image itself at any moment, so we can change the default, maybe say in several months, but right now become a token creations. Okay. So if you want to start affiliation, it would be a good step. I, don't promise that you will get a lot of adoption, but yeah we invested some time in order to make changes more visible. For example, we have change logs, follow images. Now you can also go announcement on social media. We can post a blog so that we start the revelation.

B

Yeah I don't expect any major issues with adopt open, G, D key to be honest, but yeah. If you can make be mature earlier. Let's do it all right.

A

Yeah so in the epic, then it feels like captured rough notes as as tasks in the epic, so that we've got them there and can probably see its progress great. Thank you. One.

B

Thing which was smashing here that say, say all logic: defense I'm a doctor open indicate even now so, music agar stopped testing actually having base images on the top of adopting open sticky. It makes it in Muslims at the moment. Well,.

A

And and I'm using adopt open, JDK everywhere in my CI environment I does I install it as a separate, separate component and it runs everything. Jade Java, 8, Java 11, so I have not done anything beyond Java 11, but I've I've been very pleased with the results I've seen.

A

Excellent okay.

A

Thanks: okay, anything else on the adopt open, JDK, hot spot topic.

B

Mm nope, okay,.

A

Next one then adopt openjdk new image progress report. So again, this one gets an action for me to create this. One is just a new image right. There is no problem. It is not a proposal to change the default image to use open j9. That's just too large a change.

A

We have a pull request already proposing. We just need to do review of that pull request, get Alex the experiments, running user feedback, etc. I.

B

Think we can do it along. This puts put images right.

A

B

It was my opinion this little quest but yeah as long as we don't defy the default image. I believe that we have a lot of freedom.

A

Great excellent, thank you. Okay next topic was renaming the agent darker images, so is there something that you would like to share with share with the group in terms of that one Oleg and I? So basically, they seem like.

B

Kado stories, so we have absolutely for a terminology, and this terminology still exists. You know official document images fishy, so we have Ford okay, Jenkins fresh slate, which in case Russia s SH they find janky /g no piss wave. So the suggestion on the table is to finally get rid of all of them.

B

The problem is that is basically visibility, because docker hub doesn't support dynamic languages, and it means that if yet, if you want to do solely removal, most also statistics of stars, but the rest should be fine.

A

Okay, so, and so, but if we is the idea that we would actually abandon the main maintenance of Jenkins out, can / slave or is it rather that it would? There would just be a new image called agent and it would be maintained in parallel with, with the old name, a new name, both being published as releases.

B

Yeah I think it will be two images at least for a while, so we did a mutation as a part of Jenkins to do zero. We introduced in Jenkins organization before that we had a junkie CI and at that point we just recreated that there be images. So why didn't the renaming before is because in docker hub basically auto built was all in feature and if you wanted to disable the auto Beals, you had to recreate a better physiologist.

B

That's why we didn't rename these images at that point, but right now we can do that and even into the plant, not to trust the CIO to release the environment later. But if we can just disable auto builds. So it's a lesser of concern at the moment and they were intended to practically it's a bit changed even before they have a pipeline change changes.

B

Okay and historically, we need to rename ink once there is a blog post by batiste matters which describes the process. So we will do announcements, we will be placate the old images and maybe in several months with top for updating them. That's it. Oh.

B

Yeah well we'll look at hopper I, build city images automatically. It's not something. We care about, I mean.

B

Yeah, at least practically it creates additional workload and additional cost for dogged, and we much appreciated but a sponsorship. But technically we can just copy and paste intimidations.

A

Okay, so so the non-supportive rename it darker hub is not not a big deal. It's just. We've got to run our process. Yeah.

B

Well, we don't even have to run our process. You can duplicate the pipeline's on docker hub. It's just doubled some on top four bills, I see well. Technically, we can just update a bit repository. We create concreting you repository, for example, for slave images. We just extend additional base images mark everything is duplicated put documentation, but it implies a lot of legwork so yeah. If there is a consensus that we want to do that, yeah I can do that. Okay, not this month, but yeah. We.

A

Can start client it right right this? This is another one of those that that I assume needs. We need discussion and, like you said, we need a promotion actively notifying people, blog posts, etc that hey here's. This change coming we're really getting rid of this we're doing more work to get rid of this obsolete terminology. Yep.

B

You may just say it just think it has to happen. No because it's visible, it's been consumed everywhere, if you like great quite some time, strange changes, for example, and kubernetes plug-in and other plugins, which document usage a all these images yeah something we can do right. Okay,.

B

But notice and dog leggings I definitely thing I think is that I'm directly, but.

A

All right anything else on renaming the darker agent.

A

Windows installer with slide, not here, I assume. We just make a quick note that it's blocked waiting awaiting code signing and progress.

A

Then we've got broadening platform support, just to note that, yes, we have PRS proposing CentOS, eight and I think this was actually proposing. Centos eight replacing CentOS 7 I've got to double check that ought to look at the PR mm-hm. We have a proposal to add an Ubuntu image and then notes from previous meetings on the capabilities that are available to do. Platform builds in other projects in case we need them.

A

Alright last topic: google Summer of Code; oh, they yep.

B

So I'm not sure whether we have enough people to discuss this topic here, but they that you're looking for men, d'oeuvres we're looking for project ideas. Last year we did several projects which were related to platform seek, for example, plug-in installation manager, and so hopefully, next year you also have some projects and doing like all contributors to participate and at the proposed by ideas. So Marc resolutely proposed here idea is really to give plugin.

B

But if somebody wants to work under get packaging, for example, on whatever other topic related support, is they can be something we could do.

A

A so I saw that you had noted the concern or your noted in the mailing list about the proposal startup process I would have assumed that I was supposed to start them by opening conversations in the mailing list, but I think you write a correct observation that the platforms there, that the g-shot mailing list is a pretty narrow group. Can you give some more insights on, should I be hoisting? These conversations into the Jenkins developers group for technical.

B

The excuse, so one of the reasons is because Jae Seok is my name pleased for Jaso coordination. What for technical discussions? Another reason that google Summer of Code is just one of the outreach programs we have. We also have community bridge. We have outreach, we may have expect in our programs, like Alibaba Summer of Code early summer, who knows so by keeping discussions in the developer. My name is Christina. Keep your chance open.

B

A

Great all right so I will I will launch future discussions there that those are good places to do. It takes mm-hmm.

B

And well I just made the proposal because he followed the process I'm just proposed to change it. The process of it well.

A

And I like that, actually I think that's that's a good insight. I would I would love to have more feedback and you're, certainly right that there are many, many more readers of the Jenkins developers mailing list than the Jenkins g-shock project mailing with us, so yeah. That makes very good sense. Yeah.

B

They've gotten project ideas actually had two project ideas in mind once few: the Java versions, because we didn't know that Jenkins doesn't fully work on Java 15.

B

So it could be an opportunity to have edge a sub-project to focusing on huge operations.

A

So and thirteen has actually officially released little right, but it's not an LTS and I thought. I'd understood that they'd said that 14 is not necessarily an LTS either yeah.

B

Yeah somewhat I heard the seven pins will be the next LTS okay, but yeah, even if it's not obvious, if my worth investing and ability.

A

Right right for yeah safety for an eventual, because we can predict that there is an LDS coming right. Whatever version they choose, there will be one and it will have well as an example. They they. They warned us at Java. Eleven, hey we're going to turn off certain things. They then had to back off, but I would guess the next LTS they're not going to back off and those what were they there's still a number of messages we get about. Al I'm, embarrassed to admit it: I, don't in reflective Fluxus.

A

Yes, yes, illegal, reflective access messages that that those- maybe they had warned in eleven hey we're gonna make these hard stop and they backed off from that. But now in the next LTS, whatever it is, they may say no, those are hard stop and we need to get those fixed well before that thing releases. Well, it's yet to be seen. Oh.

B

But yeah at least exploring these options, so would be nice yeah. So if contributors are interested to lead this project, I think it would fire really well, there may be another side of this.

B

Single discussion is about a girl, vm and other native prints tonight images, because if we had a native image for Jenkins, it would be so I need a prototype watching this file run it at some point, but the agendas for low tunnel is quite specific, but if we put find their ways to actually visit, for example, for changes agents to speed them up, if you could improve classification docker images, then it would be really feasible. Project helpful.

A

For the community, oh, can you give me some orientation and growl DM? It really compiles to native code. It.

B

Depends on how you can figure that, because, basically, by the way, Emma supports native images which are basically compiled and pitched including Java, or they can just do any dynamic stuff which is much less efficient but much more compatible.

A

Okay, but so that that would be if we, if it went all the way to native image. Esepcially then I'm, sitting on in an AMD 64 box and it's running native AMD, a 64 code not through the Java, not through the Java, just-in-time, compiler, yeah,.

B

Something like that, okay, so basically it's one of the stories which we need to consider. We want to make Jenkins cloud native at some point, because Java is not efficient in called native application and so on and so on. It's improved its improving Coco's, but if we take out projects like travel like Quercus, they provide a lot of additional features which help use Java in contingent environments right. Okay, so it worthless in this case I'm. Sorry. What together.

A

B

B

It's upon us quark was like cuartos Oh quark.

A

Acai, it's like that right, yep.

B

A

B

It's not something: okay, yeah that'd be specifically but yeah. If we have people interested, for example, if you could facilitate it through red heart, because the heart is one of the main contributors of quark was at the moment yeah, we could definitely have for this project.

B

Though it might be over complicated for a jaesuk student but we'll see, okay, I was able to run jigs for Donovan Quercus, just to maybe couple of weeks which.

A

Is really to me quite surprising, because, with all of the all of the things that all of the things that were such a challenge in Java 11 in the Java 11 transition, I would have assumed those plus many many more would be a challenge in something trying to run a native image. That's that's really encouraging. Well jinx.

B

Has it so not one? Yes, because you know what you are going to run there. The plug-in ecosystem is pretty used there. Well, you can run plugins in classic way, but just doesn't make any sense. So in my case, with unhooked everything to clean dependencies and then compile to this- and that's made him for him.

B

Okay, all right yeah, he doesn't address deployment options because Cuates cannot split image 12 so that you can then deploy course as quickly and other cool things. But in my case it was just a big block for native image, which worked.

A

Thank you all right anything else that we need to discuss there with regard to google Summer of Code.

B

Yeah would copy all set I think stuffed up time as a project. Okay,.

A

Mm-Hmm, Ellen and I know we attack. There's there had been earlier projects and they're already on the list. Aren't they for log storage, for external log storage and walks.

B

That I should know we have fingerprint storage. That's a great.

A

B

But ya know so today it's going to proceed, ECM, it's in the draft and basically, if you want to deliver on that, we need potential members.

A

Okay, so external fingerprint storage is there and there was the external storage project that had been attempted for external job storage of retro logs.

B

Now we have such project yeah. Okay, we were discussing them. Basically, the bottom down to lack of Mentors got.

A

It all right, thank you.

A

Okay, any other topics, code, 2020,.

B

So yeah, if somebody has any ideas in mind, please submit these ideas and the projects could be quite complex. So it's not that we are looking for new turf and the issues top builders are this year. For example, we delivered features like like an installation manager. We deliver ticket LaBranche source, which are major features. Important packaging is community and let's do all the same movies here. I.

A

Like that I like that very much thanks monkey.

B

So I love a said. This look again next to me.

A

Great all right, thank you. That's all that I had anything more from you only.

B

mmm Nothing from me all.

A

Right then, let's call it done. I will stop sharing archive recording it's called the meeting done thanks. Everybody.