Jenkins Governance Meetings, 12 Dec 2022

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From YouTube: Jenkins Governance Meeting December 12, 2022

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Jenkins governance meeting Dec 12, 2022 with topics as noted in the meeting notes archive

A

Welcome everyone: this is 12th of December 2022.. This is the Jenkins governance board meeting thanks for attending today's items that I have on the agenda include news action items, elections, governance board, meeting time and date, CDF Outreach, reboot, CDF topics; I, don't expect Oleg to attend today, so I'm uh hesitant to have all likes here, great, so CDF topics and Community forum.

A

Any other topics that should be on the agenda today.

B

Yeah I sent one update to the governing board, but it's of the record so I definitely don't contribute it to the agenda. Today. Okay,.

A

B

That they have to miss another meeting, but hopefully next time I will join uh for real.

A

No problemo like so are you? Okay? If we drop the CDF topics, item from the agenda for today.

B

For today it's perfectly fine: uh well, there are no big updates right now. So one thing that drink this project is still invited to present at the qec meeting, uh but.

C

Yeah I will Circle.

B

Back once we have to everything and yeah, what's important and what's public, uh that uh yeah steps down from the uh QC chair position. uh So it's just a quick update, uh yeah, it's a rather due to personal reasons, plus due to different expectations so for what this position constitutes, uh but I will remain on the Tucson. So, regarding the theory representation, nothing changes.

A

Okay, great and you'll you'll continue, then, to represent the Jenkins project uh on the TLC.

B

uh To some extent- and you mark- you also uh participate in this meeting quite regularly, so I do not see any practical difference between you and me in this regards and yeah definitely much more involved in Jenkins about me in the moment. Okay, great.

A

Thank you all right thanks, so, like any other topics that need to go on the agenda today before we start the before we start working through the agenda.

A

Okay, then, let's then, let's go ahead.

A

So first item was the news: uh 2.375 was released uh two weeks ago. It looks good positive feedback from lots of places. There's some some active discussion about um oh dear about breadcrumbs breadcrumb, and uh that discussion is happening in the context of weekly, but I think it will be a likely candidate for a back Port into 2.375.2 in early in early January.

A

uh January 2023 and I forget, which day it is I, think it's 11.

A

Any comments on those items.

A

Okay, next one, then, is our action items. So first action item Alex had the action item to assess if we've got active members in as leaders of the as managers or owners of all project, Sig and Community mailing lists Alex anything you want to report there.

D

Yeah I best I, didn't add all of the information there. Basically I was looking for a mailing list on the Jenkins IO website. Until I stumbled over the hardware and Eda Sig mailing list and I figured out, it has been banned by Google because someone posted malicious content and it has been basically unmoderated for a longer time and then I took a quick glance over the other mailing list, most likely language, mailing lists or um platform sick or any other mailing lists that are not frequently used.

D

They are all full of content that I would consider malicious scam and the typical stuff you have in your mails that directly went to the bin, but these main lists, given that they are public, you have the opportunity to report them to Google and if a mailing list, owner or manager does not respond within a few weeks, I don't know Guru reserves the right to get rid of the mailing list, at least for public View and I.

D

Don't think this is a great thing for the Jenkins project to have band made English or anything like that. So I came up with a proposal that mailing lists related to six or to officers are owned, or at least managed by those people. So we have someone in charge who can possibly remove or moderate bad content rather than having a publicly accessible.

A

Thank you so so is that how what do you see as the next steps, then uh a a list of lists that says these lists should be deleted or erased, or what what do you see? Isn't it happening next.

D

Yeah, um for example, the Jenkins user mailing list or the developer mainly lists- are moderated by a few people, but there are like the Eda mailing lists and the language mailing lists are owned by very few people and not necessarily related to the project. Much anymore.

D

For example, the Chinese language, the Chinese mailing list is owned by Rick.

D

Yeah and not like, and not by people who are actually much related to um offers us and such things, so my proposal was I would like to reach out for them and ask them at least the managers or owners if they could at the acting officer, or at least an acting member who's related to the sick, for example, for the platform sick I know, Bruno was very involved in that one, so we could at least add him there or people like that.

D

So we have at least a chance to act if bad things are posted or possibly change, the posting rules have like preview them. Similarly, for the death mailing list.

A

Good, okay and.

C

A

The posting rules to require moderation, at least moderation on first post, seems really good to me. Yeah.

D

I will also see who owns the hardware and Eda mailing list and possibly see if they can remove the harmful content or whatever Google Flags is harmful and see if we can get this list unbanned, even if it's not much used these days, but that doesn't mean it would be banned, at least in my opinion,.

A

Well, so, and I would have no problem with that list being deleted and that's just deleting references to it because it has been inactive for a very long time. So.

A

All right so either go.

E

Ahead, wouldn't that be a better approach to say: why do we need a still mailing lists? So we have our community. We have our GitHub channels, so I really don't need any mailing lists anymore. This is an old concept and we have one for the user interface Design Group, but actually we are not using it. So maybe it's easier to delete them and use some Modern Concepts.

A

Yeah and I think archive is probably healthier than delete, but yeah, but we've got an action already that that Kevin actually is carried uh is has taken from me to Archive the uh toxic mailing list and switch to using communities. So I think uh that feels like a good, a sensible approach.

A

Alex would that work for you, okay,.

D

Yeah, first of all, I need to see who actually owns these mailing lists, but at the Quick Glance cost, okay or Oleg and I think Oliver owns a majority of them, so basically people we can easily reach out to.

A

Great, thank you thanks very much anything else on on that topic. So the next step next steps, then Alex, are continue. Those requests to them and ask that they Grant someone from the grant an active maintainer permissions to the list.

A

A

And then we archive them.

D

Yeah I mean first of all, I would like to get rid of the harmful content and potential everything that is considered right, yes off topic, and then we can like restrict content, posting and say put a topic there and say: hey. We now use community.jenkins.io or anything else, depending which topic the list is about.

A

Good okay so require approval on first post, then archive them and use make sense. Okay,.

A

Did I capture it well enough, there Alex.

D

A

Sounds good to me: okay, anything else on the mailing, this topic.

A

Next topic then whoops next topic, the election nominee and voter badges so Alex. This is when you had noted as well uh help you understand the badges I I apologize that I'm not sure what that that is. Is that a that's? A concept on community.jenkins.io.

D

Yeah I think that was brought up by Gavin last year. At least I think it was him, maybe someone else. If then apologizes um but yeah on discourse, you can add badges to profiles similar to the first to post batch or the first mentioned badge and I.

D

Think the idea from last year was that we at everyone who is in the election 2021 group, a badge that says hey thanks for watching so basically at form of appreciation for everyone who took part in the last year election, but I noticed that we didn't have those patches, so yeah I would go ahead and apply them retroactively. If you want to do that, still.

A

I I'm open to open the discussion, I'm not terribly worried about it, but it would mean we would need to have somebody who has permission to create a new badge.

A

um I think I've probably got as I Mark thinks he has permission to to create those badges, but if not I can certain I could work with Gavin to make it. So if, if that would be something that others think would be a helpful.

A

Comments from others really any any opinion from you. There yeah.

E

I'm just uh um thinking about it, that would mean that everybody who takes part of an election will be yeah flagged in our community I'm, not sure if this is everybody wants, so you normally uh election is some kind of hidden who's participating and now it's not hidden anymore, so I'm not sure. If, for me, it is okay to see it, but I'm not sure if it's everybody is feeling a good with when his name is marked as uh I was part of the changing selection but yeah.

E

Maybe it's an honor, an honor to be there, but I'm, not sure if it's or everybody a good thing so.

C

My opinion is that if you're elected, you should get a badge, but if you were merely a voter or a nominee that seems unnecessary, I.

D

C

A strong reason for that.

E

You know that would be my opinion as well. So if someone is getting voted, that is a good thing and a thing which helps people but if to be a voter, is yeah I'm, not sure it's not so relevant, and it's a lot of effort to look at 20 to 1 to see if these people are still active, so I don't know.

A

I, like I, like the idea of assigning a badge to officers and board members, that's a that's a group of less than ten, so it's that's a manageable size. It's also a a noteworthy thing. Alex would that that meet your your question, your concern. If we, if we said yes, let's go ahead with badges, let's just do it for officers and board members that way on their profile. They can see. Oh yes, this person is an officer or a board member.

D

No, that sounds great to me. Okay,.

A

ah My fingers, okay.

A

A

I've now done something to my page just a moment here we go okay.

A

All right, so uh how about Mark to create or create the badge or discuss with Gavin or request permission from Gavin.

A

Now badge creation is distinct from board member, create permission on community.jenkins.io, right, I. Believe every board member should have permission Alex you have permissions. Are you noted currently as a board member there and have the correct permissions.

D

A

D

It says government sport, member under those people's profiles, yeah.

E

Okay, is it on sorry, I, don't see it on my page, I have a lot of batches, but I have a leader patch I, don't know what this is.

A

Okay, so so, let's, let's put it an additional item, Mark to check that all board members are correctly noted on community.jenkins.io, okay, as members of the board, that's a good! That's a good thing! Yeah.

A

Okay, any other items there on the election badges. So in this case it would just be for 2022.

E

A

All right next topic, then Mark Waite create an empty agenda entry. This week's worked quite well for me, I'll! Do it again, I was that worked very, very well proposal right now is that the next meeting of the board won't be two weeks from now, but it would rather be four weeks from now because the next one two weeks from now will be the 26th of December, and many of us will be out of office between Christmas Day and New Year's Day yeah, that's fine! Okay!

A

Great uh next was the action: how to submit a jenkins.io pull request to combine sub-projects and six haven't started that one yet, but I will that one is I like that, a lot the concept will be working groups and it'll, be a structuring to have a single unified way of presenting those rather than the two distinct, but strangely similar concepts of sub-projects and special interest groups.

A

uh Next was Oleg to propose to Rick to retire the Chinese Jenkins site no report from Oleg Fair next topic, then archive the governance meeting, notes, Gavin and I. Have this action item not started yet uh we do continue to publish the agenda after the meeting on community.jenkins.io I think it would help us to have this now. There is an open question from the infra team.

A

Team asking: where do we want that? Do we want that GitHub repository that repository, whether on infra or on the Jenkins, CI, org and Mark, to include board members in that discussion? I'm not prepared today to have a more detailed discussion of it. Daniel Beck had some concerns about which repository it's in Damien had some opinions, uh I'm open to any of them. I think we we would benefit from a GitHub repository I, don't care which org it's in.

E

Yeah, it doesn't really matter where it is for me.

A

Okay, all right so.

C

I think I think before discussing it, it would be good to have a list of arguments for each position um because I read through that thread, but um I think I saw some arguments in favor of one or the other.

C

That seemed valid to me, but a separate conversation I noticed in that thread was the more General conversation about what belongs in the Jenkins infra organization, and that seemed like an interesting conversation to have, but also a separate one, compared to the question of where do we want this particular repository to go so I think there's really two different topics here. One is: how do we Define the scope of jenkinson from more generally, which is always a difficult question right?

C

It's always difficult to draw the line between Ops and Dev in any organization, but we could we could spend you know days discussing that either in the Jenkins project or in any other organization, but I don't think we should get sidetracked with that discussion with regard to this particular Repository, so that that's a much easier question to answer is: where does this board repository go a much harder question to answer is: where do you draw the line between Dev and Ops, and so I think we should focus on the first question and not necessarily the second question, which is just very difficult to answer.

A

Agreed I like that, so we'll focus. Let's focus that discussion on on specifically which of those two organization repositories we want um there are. There are yeah: let's leave it at that, there's there's even a Jenkins Dash docs org, but I'd.

A

Rather we keep it in Jenkins and for Jenkins CI one of those two good okay, so that one I think the action item stays with me to bring the board members in we'll discuss it in that thread, in the GitHub repository and or in the GitHub I think it was an issue, that's been opened and then we'll go from there.

A

Okay, next anything else on the archive of the meeting notes.

A

Okay next was Kevin to use community.io community.jenkins.io for the Jenkins doc Sig mailing list, so this was Kevin taking an action item from from me Kevin. How are you doing on it? You want some help. There.

F

Yeah yeah I'm um uh I'm very interested in getting that switched over and utilizing community site instead um and I. Think, especially with the idea of uh getting moving away from the mailing list. Having that as kind of a litmus test will be really really helpful in understanding uh what possibilities we have there. So I think we just need to go over it a little bit more, maybe get a better sense of uh what the crucial items from ER, but we can do that in our own one-on-one separately, but um yeah. That's something!

F

I definitely want to make sure that I'm taken care of within uh the next month or so I'm gonna start the year off right. A socks officer, great.

A

Thank you next topic, then, was easy. Cla to be documented at biolag, Olex had was dropped in with us briefly. He'll have to take some he's taking some time off at the moment. uh We'll look forward to him addressing that as we get into the new year and then last item special thanks to Basel the web application server policy.

A

He created the proposed the pull request. It's been reviewed merged, and here it is with three levels stating the current the current pattern. Where level one is, we run automated tests and we really fix things promptly in a timely manner. That's Windstone level, two we'll consider patches for certain specific containers that are based on servlet, API, 4.0 and then level. Three unsupported is things outside of that basil. Anything you wanted to highlight here.

C

No, um uh if there's, if there's any other requests that we get for additional servlet containers, began Tomcat or wildfly.

C

The response that we'd want to give is to add them to this page and also to add them to the test. Suite and the packaging. Repository I haven't heard any requests from people about others, but that would be the response. For example, I, don't know if glass fish is still something that people use or not, but if it is, that's that's the way we would deal with it.

A

Great, thank you yeah, so good good to know that if someone wants to add to level two add documentation and a one or more test cases, one or more tests in the packaging repository thanks for crafting those creating those tests. So those those tests, if I, understand correctly, are based on molecule and use Docker containers to do full installs.

C

Yeah they're they're, not exhaustive, they're, basically just checking that it can boot up to the login screen, which is not a very thorough test. I mean we're not actually building a job or doing anything like that, but it's uh basically the lowest level of testing that we could say.

C

um We could say that it at least could work if it gets to the login screen. So right, very.

A

Good. Thank you anything else on the web application server policy.

A

Okay, next topic, then, was on elections. So um two weeks ago we discussed a proposed change of rules to allow up to two elected board members from a single company and that's being discussed in the Google group. Discussions have gone kind of quiet Uli, any any additional concerns from you or things that you wanted to bring to this meeting.

A

E

Actually, uh everything I think can could think about it. uh I wrote In The Mailing thread, and the interesting thing is that really nobody took part at this discussion from the community or from the Developers so yeah. This indicates that our community is getting uh smaller and smaller and yeah quite interesting that nobody responded from others which are not on the board right now.

C

When you say nobody, are you counting the reply that I wrote two hours after you sent your message? Yeah.

E

Yeah, but you were in the meeting as well, so oh I see so I I thought as a I. Think everybody who was part of the meeting two weeks ago wrote something but nobody else. So this was a little bit disappointing from my perspective, so I would have been better I think if we had a real discussion. So we are still the same people talking about this thing so but yeah, maybe.

C

E

Sign if nobody is against it, so so saying nothing means maybe yeah I'm fine with changing it, but I'm not really sure.

C

Well, I do agree that it would be good to get more voices, but you know that that doesn't really change the points that were made in the arguments in favor against. If, if fewer people are discussing the topic, but the arguments are still valid, I would I wouldn't consider that a a problem.

E

E

Yeah I'm not sure how we can proceed if we should wait a little bit more because it currently it's not really relevant, because the next elections are in one year at least the official ones, and so I'm not sure. If we should give it a little bit longer. I'm.

A

Yeah I I would so as a proposal I think if we were to say at our next board meeting and I'd be happy to post this to the discussion at our next board meeting early January, we plan to bring this to a conclusion to decide yay or an A. Okay. That way people know when we're going to make the decision and I I think it's within the board's ultimate authority to make this decision after it's been discussed and developed in the developer list.

A

Yeah. What does that seem? Okay to you, Lee your comments. It's fine.

A

We conclude the discussion and vote on The Proposal at an export meeting at.

C

A

2023 board meeting.

A

Anyone object to that.

A

Okay, great thanks anything else on elections before we go on to the next topic,.

A

Okay, next topic, then, was governance board meeting time and date. I was a little sluggish here. Five minutes before this meeting was scheduled to start I sent the Google the doodle poll. It's a clickable link, so you can go right here to see it uh well. Maybe here we go yes, so, oh we and we've got responses good. So please respond thanks Basel for responding and encourage others to respond. Please I've sent it I've posted it.

A

On the board meeting list, uh I've sent email directly to individuals, I'm hesitant to put it on the developer list, just because that's a little broader than usual, but I'm open to that. If others feel strongly that we should pull for the whole developer list.

E

You know normally, there are not so many different people here, so I think it's okay to keep the pole small. So we find a good yeah slot, which fits to at least five of us.

E

So it's getting harder, I think if we have a lot of different people from different time zones, so if they want to join, they can or they can propose items without joining so I think it's the best thing to keep it small from my opinion here, great.

A

Let's go with that, then. Thank you. Anything else on governance board meeting.

A

Okay, CDF Outreach reboot. This is more for everyone's information. uh Two days from now, Alyssa Tong and I will be present at the meeting of the continuous delivery foundation's Outreach committee as they get it restarted. uh Alyssa I believe plans to present as the events officer and will look forward to being involved with them more as we do more Outreach and advocacy.

A

Cdf topics, I believe, has already been covered by what Oleg shared as he arrived earlier. Any other CDF topics that anyone wanted to bring.

A

Okay, then last topic was Community Forum. So this is a highlights section and one of the things. The one thing that was on my mind was this: coming Sunday December 18th, the Jenkins artifact repository will be down for up to six hours.

A

uh That's while artif, while jfrog does a migration to upgrade that server to to a different location and a new version Etc. So what we'll do is we'll take the CI servers and to prepare for shutdown so that their jobs stop running and then artifactory will be taken offline. You can read more about it on the Google group and for specific status at time of at time of the outage go to status.jenkins.io, and this this thing announces that coming change.

A

Any questions on that outage.

A

Oh good point by Kevin, so should we do a blog post or is there a blog post? Oh there is a blog post. Kevin I think is what you're telling me here.

F

Very good sorry uh Damien actually created that blog post and I published it uh towards the end of last week. So that's actually uh up and available on the jenkins.io blog as well excellent.

A

Thank you, okay, so we're we're giving ourselves as many ways to to forewarn people that will be down this coming. Sunday we're very grateful to jfrog for what they do for the Jenkins project, any other items from the community Forum that people would like to share or highlight.

A

Okay, any other topics that we need to cover in today's. In today's meeting.

E

um One thing uh I think on the mailing list: we are participating in first time next year, so maybe um it's just good to say that we are or we have a stand there I think, but actually I was not involved, while I think Alyssa was involved about the creation process.

A

So correct yeah, so good good point, advocacy and Outreach um is tracking that stand. There will be a CI, CD Dev room, whereas last year, I believe it was a full day. This time it will I believe be only a half day uh but and as far as I understand that the talks that were there were proposals for that. The the call for proposals has already closed so so we'll look forward to hearing from people and their experiences in that Dev room.

E

A

Now Staffing for the the stand, um Alyssa will coordinate that I believe she and Bruno are coordinating at the Melissa. Tong is coordinating the the staff if you're going to be at fosdum by all means we'd love to have your help. Staffing the table.

A

Thanks for the reminder, Uli any other.

E

Maybe you can write the date, it's I think the fourth and fifth of February.

A

E

A

We'll also, we also plan to participate at the Southern California Linux Expo uh that'll be 20x and I. Think that's in March, so that'll be in Los, Angeles California.

A

We've done that for many many years and frequently we get kosuke himself to come visit. The booth.

A

Any other topics from from the community forums.

A

All right, I think that covers our topics for today, then thanks very much recording should be available on community.jenkins.io within about 24 hours.

A