Add a meeting Rate this page

A

Welcome everyone: it's the 14th of september 2022. This is the jenkins user experience special interest group thanks for being here, topics that I have on the agenda: security reviews, ux improvements, oktoberfest, open, ux, regressions,.

A

Stalled pull requests any other topics, you'd like to be sure we put on the agenda.

B

um

C

I guess you've already got ux improvements. I've got some stuff to show and I think yarn might have something as well. Yeah.

D

Really.

C

Showing off.

D

Some of the prototype stuff.

C

Yeah and I've got some pipeline graph view enhancements to show.

A

All right pipeline graph view.

A

Excellent. Thank you any other items that need to be on the agenda.

A

Okay is the ordering okay, I thought security reviews relatively quick progress check and then focus on ux improvements and we'll try to give ourselves enough time at the end. To talk to the other topics, daniel is that okay, in terms of the ordering open, ux regressions, will be later in the session.

E

Sure, oh, I expected to be quick but yeah sure, okay, great all,.

A

Right, okay, then, so this this section, security reviews for ux pull requests is mostly about asking the group as a whole. How is it going with the security review process? Is it progressing? Okay? Are there any concerns, things that need to be raised, or from vatic and or daniel? Are there things you need to flag to the rest of us about it?.

F

I will especially let daniel talk about that, as I was not participating enough to this point. Okay,.

E

I don't think anything interesting happened here.

A

Great okay, any others who have concerns or topics that we want to discuss in the context of security reviews.

A

Okay,.

C

Next update, the design of notifications seems pending for a couple of for two weeks.

C

The only debates in the pull request currently is about the area. To put it.

C

That's.

B

Not related to.

C

Security, so it's oh.

B

Okay,.

A

It's been over.

C

For two weeks and hasn't been reviewed, god.

A

Okay, so got it sorry, so what that really is is that's that may be an example of a stalled pull request. Good thanks, tim, okay, any others tim.

C

No, I think there was one I chased this morning. They've been waiting for a week, but it looks like it's been reviewed.

E

Okay, so the nullification one also doesn't currently have any approvals. So it's not like we're currently delaying that.

A

ah So it's it's truly stalled in that sense that their general review is needed.

C

One just one part of one part of what needs to go in so.

A

All right, okay, any other topics on security reviews.

A

Okay and vodka, I assume the one that you linked in is for the discussion. Yes, designer notifications, okay got it! Thank you all right, then, let's go to ux improvements. So jan did you want to take on first I'll, stop sharing my screen and let you share. Oh sure, that's.

D

So good awesome, um so what I'll be sharing is the prototype um of a kind of future version of jenkins that uh that would potentially working towards um so hopefully you can see my screen, I'm not really sure what screen you can see.

B

Yes, we.

A

Can see it just great.

D

Awesome um so yeah this is. This is a little prototype of where we potentially want to take jenkins. um So tim and I have been working on this- and this is what we'll be demoing in a couple of weeks time at devops world. um So I gave a little demo of this last week.

D

Well, the last uh last meeting um and we've kind of made several refinements to it since then, so I just thought I'd kind of walk, walk everyone through them and try and get some feedback before we download to a larger audience, and it comes time. um So hopefully you can see the dashboard, um so it looks looks quite similar to what we have at the moment. um Kind of key difference here is that the the navigation bar at the top has moved to the left.

D

um Just so you have more vertical space um and this persists and as you scroll down, so it's always present.

D

um If we go to a project, it's a bit broken at the moment, um but the layout is quite different. What we have at the moment for projects um so instead of I have lots of links on the left. Those those pages have been kind of pulled out into these individual card components.

D

So say, for example, the stage view uh appears at the very top build history. Next to it and as you scroll down, you'll have more information about your the project that you're viewing, for example. So we've got the test, result, trend and stages and kind of empty blocks at the moment, just to fill the space, but we'll film number four devops world and these cards are interactive, so you can full screen them.

D

For example, and that'll show you more information about that block um people build and kind of folds a very similar pattern where we, instead of having a large kind of sidebar, we said display that information all at once on the page, so it's kind of less clicking. Ideally um so the very first thing you'll see is this: this kind of large console pane or card, and it's kind of one less clip to interact with it. um You also have kind of quick actions such as the copy button to copy the log or down.

D

Let's download it again, you can full screen it to get kind of more information and for to fill the space.

D

um That's the kind of pattern that we kind of develop in here really for these pages is this kind of card layout that can kind of flow to different screen sizes. So, if you're on a mobile it'll fit nicely there, if you want an ultra wide little scale to that too, so you'll have lots of lots of information.

D

um So that's the kind of project and build page at the moment um needs a bit of work, but again we'll develop that in the next couple of weeks, um we've got a kind of really basic new project page at the moment, um and the idea behind this is that plugins can integrate with it.

D

So it's kind of taking nutrition from blue ocean in a way, um so you might have kind of um kind of what you call them kind of get instances and they can provide little pieces of ui that can plug into this page. um So if I want to connect to a git repo, I just hit github and I can turn the information and we can go straight from there rather than building a project and doing it. That way, um hopefully makes the kind of process a bit smoother.

D

But again it's a bit work in progress, um and then the last thing that we've been kind of looking at so far is updating the settings page.

D

um So in this instance, rather than having the kind of little card layout that we have at the moment, we've instead adopted a little sidebar, um looks like so really, um and you can kind of just quickly. Click through them um to jump from central interception.

D

um It'll, hopefully be a bit easier to navigate than what we have now. um But.

G

Yeah, that's.

D

That's the kind of current prototype we've got at the moment, um still a work in progress, but if not has any thoughts or ideas, we were all for all days really.

A

So on the on the settings here, the switch from card layout to the wider layout is that is that to give more more space for interactions. Is that tell me about that? One I've I've enjoyed the card layout before so I was I'm a little surprised. This one's switching tell me more about it.

D

Sure um so, for me, um currently, the pages of, of course jenkins that they kind of a lot of the stuff in the pages aren't necessarily related to one another. um So if we could break that out um into kind kill more sections if possible, and that's where I think the kind of sidebar approach would be better, it's easy to kind of flick through various pages rather than having to kind of go back to this main settings, hub kind of call it that just to join for another section um but yeah.

D

It's it's just an idea. For now it's not something that we're necessarily pulling for, but it's just a exploration really.

A

Well- and I love the exploration so the concept conceptually then, on the left hand on the sidebar, there would be at least one row for each of the items. That's currently in managed settings, and some of them would get more than one row.

A

uh Yes,.

B

Yeah yeah yeah.

F

So typically related to the last commander, so you expect to split the configure settings configure system page into multiple sections.

D

um Where would make sense? Yes, um because right now, kind of plugins can put stuff in there as well, um and it can kind of get a bit all over the place. So if you could kind of better organize that that would be ideal, I think.

F

Perhaps a concern that could be raised: there is more about the discoverability of the stuff. When you install a new plugin, it's not always very easy to find where the plugin is putting its configuration. If it's in the security settings the system settings the.

B

Job settings.

F

Or anywhere and looking at the different page, doing a control, f kind of like just searching the page is sometimes pretty useful, especially in a very large instance. So.

C

Just wondering some sort of search here as well, which kind of helps solve that security issue as well, because I think an example is get plug-in recently chain added some feature um I can't remember quite about, but it went on the security page, which was a bit different to other things, and so so it's another place to look for. But you could search find all git configuration by searching or something like that.

B

I know.

C

Jan's been trying to enhance some of the search as well.

A

Certainly, on okay on my android device, I've learned now by hard experience that when I want to do settings I always have to search for it anyway. Likewise on my chromebook, so the concept here might be add a search facility here that lets me search for all of the settings and then find the things that matched him. Is that what you were saying.

B

Yeah yeah.

A

Yeah because I agree, the the example you gave from the git plugin is a is a very recent one. It it intentionally put something in security because it was security related, but all the other configuration things for the git plug-in system-wide are in the system configuration page. So now it's in two places, yeah good.

F

Questioning the search search ability of the plugin is something that the plugin has to change themselves or something that is done automatically at some point. What do you expect.

B

Yeah for search.

F

Yeah, of course,.

C

I'm not sure at this point um so yarns existing search, stuff kind of integrates with more uh components like users builds um other jobs and everything. So it's a I'm sure if you've seen it the pop-out one, which um kind of splits the search results out into different sections. So you can see what sort of thing it is.

C

um So that's that's something that's prototyped at some point and did start exploring the search for the design library as well kind of a similar sort of idea um to this. But like searching all the design library components, you don't have to try and find what you're looking for. um But you need to explore that a bit further.

F

Yeah, typically, if you have a search that is specific to the configuration page, that could be pretty nice, because if you are using the just the generic one, you will get confusion conflict with all the build.

E

And.

F

All the the job and this kind of thing, so that could be just a bit.

A

Yeah this looks so promising. Jan, could you take us back to the home page? I wanted to ask some questions about the cards there. If that's so in I've been using descriptions at the top to hide additional information.

A

I think that in this in envisioned layout, the descriptions are gone to focus instead on on the jobs themselves and their results. Have I understood correctly.

D

Pretty much yeah um if you go back to the dashboard, um we have a little car for the description there, and so I imagine that would kind of have a similar pattern um on the project to build to and just not knock that part up yet.

A

And- and I had a question julie, I believe I think uli hoffner was with us. No, maybe he's not. Here I was wondering if there was experience for. Oh, you are okay with warnings. Ng are there? Are there experiences you've had on this card style layout that that might inform us in terms of hey? What's worked well and what hasn't worked well in terms of concepts and ideas.

G

Yeah the things.

A

I'm.

G

Doing in the oneis plugin is a static page only for the warnings plugin, but this page looks like a dynamic one which uses let's say some kind of widgets from each plugin, like you have on your ios screen, where you can say: okay, I have a widget for two rows and three columns.

G

This looks like this is the idea that we have that plugins can provide widgets for these screens, which have a given width and a given height of what is the intention.

D

Yeah, um that's pretty much it really um in the kind of the idea is that plug-in job is kind of, like you say, provide a widget and they'll sit inside this little card surface um and they can provide new optional controls on the top right as well. So it's always kind of consistent between plugins.

B

Out of curiosity, are you guys using a framework here for the the ux elements or.

D

um No no framework um for this.

A

And so back to uli's question on the sizes there there are some conceptual sizes here then like build history. Is it two by two and stage view is four by two or is? Is that not a concept for you.

D

It is I've just not really kind of had a chance to think that for a year, um but as you can see on this kind of larger size, it doesn't really scale too well, um because a two kind of column widget can't fit in kind of one space. So it's a bit bit weird at the moment. It kind of fits better.

C

Like.

D

That.

C

It's currently just it's large card and regular card. I think at the moment.

A

Okay,.

G

I think we tried something similar with a pull request, dashboard, where we propose a lot of widgets which show the yeah the results of a pull request. How many changes? How is the code coverage of a pull request, etc?

G

And we started with um pixels as yeah, that's width and height, and this was not really good, so I think it would be much better if we have a layout like a grid of 12 by 12 or what else, and then we can have some widgets, which are only small, widgets or large widgets. Well, this would really awesome for plugins to contribute to.

G

This requires a lot of work for the plugins, but I think it's what would it's very helpful for plugins if we can? Currently, we have just a list of blocks which is not really helpful. If this there are so many plugins in one job, so I think it's really good idea to go this way.

G

And one.

C

Thing, I think, would.

G

Be really helpful if I'm not sure this configure button is maybe it's not yet programmed, but it would be helpful if we can select widgets somehow. So it's because some people would like to see the test results. Some other people's would like to be the stage view and some would like to see the build history, but nobody is interested in everything I think so because, typically in a team, you have a project manager who is more interested in some overviews and the deep developers would like to see something totally different.

G

So it would be helpful if we can configure this per user.

A

So, are you envisioning it as a per user thing? I was assuming this was a static page, static definition page like the current jenkins pages young. Oh.

D

I'm thinking it could go either way. Really um I do like the idea of being customizable. um Obviously everyone has different needs. um It'll depend on how much kind of complexity that adds to everything we really have to kind of see how it kind of develops really.

A

Cool, thank you. This is beautiful, there's a really marvelous work and the bar on the left is just the dark bar on the left is just part of the webpage.

D

Yeah, um that's the kind of so on on kind of current jenkins. You've got the build history um and the users they kind of sit there at the moment, um not too sure how useful that is. um I'm kind of seeing this bar is a good place to have kind of permanent links that you kind of frequently want to access or links that kind of span across pages, for example. um So it depends kind of what's useful. um Home or dashboard is useful search kind of pops over the kind of current interface and settings.

D

I guess, is valuable, but the rest I'm not too sure yet.

A

Impressive, any other questions for yon.

A

Anything else you want to show you on before we switch to.

D

I'm not serving oh sorry,.

E

Well, a question about this ui: what parts do you envision to be extensible, because I mean this looks great but as we know, for example, from side panels of jobs and builds, the challenge is to make it work once every plug-in dumps additional links everywhere, because obviously every vendor things their own plugin deserves a spot in the top level navigation. That's shown on every page, um and so this won't be just seven links but more like 50, and how well does it work then.

D

um So for the dashboard I was kind of envisioning this. This kind of sidebar has been extensible um pretty much the same way as it is now. um Plugins can provide their own cards here. For example, um currently kind of secondary sidebar links would appear underneath this kind of overflow button kind of links that aren't important or very rarely used, for example,.

D

So yeah um we'll definitely be ares for plugins for integrating, but I guess it's still an issue. If we kind of go overboard with it, you know.

A

So I interpret that to mean that the the left-hand side will be less extensible. It's less likely that somebody is going to add their own there, because likely will be blocked from doing so. They would be rather added to the three dots on the right. Did. I understand that correctly on.

D

Yeah yeah yeah um any any kind of kind of jenkins wide, spanning links such as settings, which is accessible from every page, um we'll see on the left kind of page. Specific actions will sit in the kind of page frame, whatever you want to call it. I'm.

E

To evaluate this, it would be interesting to know kind of how the existing extension points map to locations on the new ui so, for example, root action if the bar on the left is not extensible at all. um Where do root actions go stuff like that? I think that would be interesting.

E

I similarly on this page, how would you present existing prominent project actions, which is what graphs and such are currently uh implemented with if they show up on the builds main page? um So I think that would be our job's, the main page. So I think that would be interesting. You know existing extension points and where they appear, even if with reduced fidelity, because there's some backwards compatibility requirement there and for it to look really great or integrate really nicely, for example, to have this ex full screen button on the top right of each block.

E

They need to use a new api so that I think that would be very interesting, a very interesting, very important because, obviously we're not starting from scratch right. We have 2000 plugins. We need to take along on this and, if jenkins looks great, if you have zero plugins installed and there's an unusable mess as soon as you have a realistic setup, uh I don't think that would benefit anyone.

D

Yeah, I agree um I'll have to kind of start writing up some kind of docs on this. Really, um oh yeah, um that that's that's the kind of press type, really um sorry.

E

Don't get me wrong, it looks great, um so I like the bar on the left, for example, design, wise and last time when you presented this build view already. I think it looks nice, but um I worry about how all of the plugins that people are already using will integrate with this um in blue ocean. We basically didn't even attempt it and that didn't go well, and so I think, with a ui redesign like this, we need to have a plan to make existing functionalities still be reasonably accessible.

D

For the um pre-existing bring up like ci, which lincoln's.

D

um For the existing kind of project, uh page kind of plug-in integrations, I was imagining we could just kind of wrap them in a kind of basic card at the moment. um So, for example, the test results could be a car charge and then the current states, you could be a card um and that can just say be placed at the bottom, for example.

D

um So it's not that backwards compatibility but say when a plugin developer kind of enhances it for the new design. It might get a more prominent position, for example, it might get access to the new kind of controls and so on. um So it can integrate better. um Just one thing: you want to get kind of get rid of is kind of this idea that plugins can just chuck stuff wherever because it kind of gets a bit on bld um like.

C

Right yeah: let's show you what sunlight, I think.

E

Right um and and you you missed the most important one, could you go back to c.I jenkins? I o to the main page.

D

That was the dashboard.

E

Yep, so where does the we need beer link? Go.

D

So that's.

E

Good to sit.

D

In the fall left shoulder.

E

Okay, so it's extensible after all, okay yeah! We.

D

Need to that one in.

A

Those of us who do not drink beer object to this, but okay.

C

You can have your grape juice mark or orange juice or whatever you want.

B

A couple questions I don't know: if I missed do you guys have a date in mind when you're hoping to have this kind of in users hands or is it kind of tbd.

D

um Yeah, no date really.

B

This.

C

Isn't jenkins at all? This is just a prototype. It's not built on top of jenkins itself,.

B

So is that, like six months here next week, like.

A

No, I I christina. The answer I interpreted was this. Is this? Is a sketch? That's realized, as code.

B

Right.

A

So and tim and jan I I heard no no mention of any date and I wouldn't expect anything right. I mean it's whenever whenever the prototyping looks good and it evolves and continues to evolve and go forward.

A

Yeah: okay, christina sorry back to you.

B

uh No, no, that was.

G

That was.

D

It.

B

Branding or is that something still being um worked through.

D

um Yeah, no decisions around that really. um I had a little jenkins logo there initially, but it just it kind of got a bit corrupted. So I changed it to a home uh symbol, but yeah no thoughts on branding really would be nice to make it more jenkins d. That's a word.

B

And as well as the accessibility piece, because I noticed that there's some like keyboard traps and stuff, so I see if this is a proof of concept, I'll stop. Looking.

B

But it's just something to have top of mind as you're building.

D

Awesome I'll um I'll stop sharing if anyone has any kind of further thoughts or anything dude do give us a ping, um especially next two weeks as we've been demoing it to like an audience in in devops world, and I don't want to get streamed out so would be, would be nice just.

C

Yeah so we'll be at the contributor sub summit on the tuesday and then on the thursday we'll be presenting this at devops world.

A

Yeah looking forward to it thanks very much to both of you grateful that you're traveling to orlando, see you there sorry go ahead, christina.

B

No I'm just curious what next steps would look like after the demo.

C

We'll do some hacking on the plane.

C

We'll see how we get on.

B

Pbd big tbd.

A

Hey tim, you, I think you had the next topic.

C

Yep so I'll share um some of the enhancements to the pipeline graph view. Plugin, that's came in um so um quite a few people would have seen this before um but pipeline. Graphic plugin was a kind of prototype that I did during the ui ux hackathon last haven't really had much time to work on it over the last year since the hackathon itself.

C

um The last there's been a few features introduced since by other contributors, but basically it's a idea about moving blue ocean into classic view into the regular jenkins um and kind of implementing some of the features, hopefully with more of a um extensible approach and without needing basically the custom app that blue ocean is making it a lot easier to develop on and maintain.

C

um So since the initial release, I probably haven't represented that much since then, but um it's had two new features since then one was the um job view and one was a um pipeline logs view as well. um Those are all in kind of semi-broken state. There were some issues and the blue ocean graph wasn't accurately represented, um as it was in the pipeline graph view. Some things just didn't work right from my prototype, um but over the last week we've had a contributor come along and fix all of those issues.

C

Basically um all the graph related issues so currently have currently have no open issues with any um reproduction issues from blue ocean to the graph um and there's also some pipelines that can be represented in the graph that couldn't that blue ocean wasn't able to handle um the only the only open issue related to the graph is now the um parallel pipeline visualization support, um which was the most upvoted issue on blue ocean and was never solved so then that's the only visualization issue still are open. um So let's show you some of the enhancements.

C

So there's a recent one, so issue that was fixed yesterday was um let's go here, show a simple one: um it's taken a deviation from blue ocean where declarative is now showing its synthetic stages um previously and declarative they sh. It was shoehorned into the previous stage. So there's a synthetic stage, integrative scm when a when it does the global checkout for the for the whole agent um that was just randomly put in the first stage um and same with post action.

C

So if you did a post actions across the whole pipeline that was put into the last stage randomly, but that was found a bit confusing, um and so we've just put that in here just to see how it works the benefit. Is you get a actual stage up here at the top, and you can see the checkout in case? That's ever useful.

C

So one thing that I'm working on that's not released at the moment. Is I'm adding node status to stages and steps? So you see here these have got the um tick to say that that step was successful.

C

um So that's all working, I just haven't um created a pr for it, yet um just to show you one where it's failing. I think this one here. So this is a. um This is a build from the slack pug plugins master, build which running on my local machine. So some things aren't quite there. So this is the visualization as in blue ocean. um It's all accurate.

C

um If I go here, you get so that the parallel branch failed. That was the linux. Eight branch failed um in the build stage. um Nested stages don't work properly, so this in theory should be nested under another level, but that doesn't quite work in the log and if you go down here, you'll see that it was the step here that failed and you click on it. You can see the logs, and this is one of those jenkins systems where it failed for a agent connection issue which never appeared in the blue ocean log either.

C

So if I were to go to the playing console, log you'd see um that it's got a stack trace with uh no such method error. That's what it failed with um and the same with blue. So blue ocean wouldn't display that either the same sort of error um because be using similar apis, I guess um but yeah. So that's um the stuff! That's kind of most of this is real, and so the other thing is that it used to be for those who've seen this before say on ci jenkins io.

C

um What there's a few there's, some you I'll just show you the released version. Does it depends on whether they've updated or not.

C

Pipeline graph, so so so yeah this should all be fixed, visualizing, um um so yeah, so they haven't updated it here. But you see that there used to be a couple of ux issues here. One um the step would overflow into the pipeline log area, and the other issue is that you can't really tell the difference between steps as they're pretty much the same. There's no real, clear separation.

C

um So we've added um um kind of this- it's probably a bit more obvious and not dark theme, but there's little separators between each step. uh If I go to here, it's all rounded and highlighted more clearer and the text doesn't overflow anymore.

B

Sorry, daniel.

C

Were you saying something before.

E

uh No okay.

C

So I think so also probably.

E

Probably also helps that's it, so that's it that it's a one column view now, so you have more space.

C

Right, yes, that's. The other thing is that I've um got rid of the side panel um as before. I only had this back to build thing which took up all the space over here, taking up a lot of room for nothing basically um and same here with the graph.

C

um It was moved all this far away over to the right. um So now it's moved to a much better location, um which yeah makes it all work quite a lot better, so something I'm working on which isn't released here is kind of pulling in some of the concepts from um the prototype um that was shown earlier. So, if you see here, this is using the um card design, so it's pulled in a um uh the build display name, um hopefully pull in the for pull request, hopefully pull in a pull request.

C

Title here, probably- um and let's see I pulled in um the card details in the stage- um and you can rebuild it and go to like a configure page um showing that links yeah. So it's going to the right place. This will trigger a new build, but it's not actually.

B

Hooked.

C

Up.

B

Fully, so that's why.

A

Is there a way for me to suppress that card on the right hand, side, sometimes my graphs are are, uh are embarrassingly large so or is? Is that the card that you're, showing with details expected to be yeah? That's going to be there no matter what.

B

um I'm just.

C

Going to think if I've got a big one here joy, I got the packer. I've got the packer images matrix just to see what it looks like. So that's a fairly large one.

C

I'm not sure how big you're thinking.

A

Yeah, so mine worry was more about the horizontal rather than the the vertical the vertical. I think that handles it very very well, there are times when I've got long, long chains that are running.

B

Oh yeah, so.

C

Should I think of any big ones,.

A

And and tim, you don't particularly need to even show it. It looks like this is ready for me to do some experimenting and testing and you'll happily take bug reports. Yeah.

B

Yeah yeah, so let me just.

B

Let's just do my stage post parallel.

A

Live stress testing, I'm very impressed. Tim just tried.

C

I mean labels are in unique, so it doesn't even matter um I'll. Let's run that that should.

B

Cool.

B

So it scrolls.

A

Okay,.

C

So just.

B

Horizontal.

C

Scroll bar.

A

Okay, yeah.

C

Well, I hadn't tried on any long ones but yeah, so that and it would um it would have like yarns. That's if you remember the full screen sort of click, so you could. You could add that and then expand it out fully um but yeah. So this is something that I'm just working on at the moment. I'm not sure, and it's yeah it's. So this isn't a react app, so I'm not sure how extensible or whatnot, but it's kind of just a prototype.

C

I'm working on it, probably just to sit in this plug-in for now and then look at how we can pull things in better in a more extensible way and kind of just as a early look before before bringing this into the main jenkins. It's kind of a good place that we can experiment with some of the sun and a plug-in.

A

No, no, you had mentioned something earlier, that's you, you got me all wound up and happy about build 374. That was on the page. There um you mentioned that might someday, be the description of the pull request so that, instead of trying to remember what pr9 means, it would tell me hey this is this is what pull request. Nine's description was so.

C

We've got that and the prototype at the moment, so this at the top is the jenkins build display name, and then this is the pull request. Title.

A

Okay,.

C

um So we should kind of assume that you'd want both the jenkins to build display, name and the pull request title probably, um and ideally some if you're pulling some like uh well yeah you're, basically just bringing some of the get information a bit more into jenkins, so that you know what it's not pr 370 it's mark did something.

A

Exactly yeah, thank you yeah. I I agree. I think the build number is is good. The build identifier is good, but but I would love to have that pull request there, because I inevitably click through that thing to find out which pull request is this. Thank you.

C

Yeah, so that's kind of trying to pull some of this information a bit cleaner and as well. If I just go to a simpler one um yeah, so it's got like the pr link and there and a nice easy to find place because the existing ci- it's not it's in a giant side panel down here. If it's even here.

A

Yeah, you have to go up one more level to get it to get the github link right and now the github link is there, but it's in the middle.

C

Yeah, it's really hard to find amongst a bunch of stuff unrelated, and is it not really not a poor questlink at all on here or not like a branch I'm sure there.

B

Is yeah.

C

Yeah well, I've got a pull request.

B

So.

C

God I could have sworn there was a poor request link, but I can't even find it so yeah exactly.

C

Cool any questions, any suggestions, anything you'd like to see.

A

So the the the graph improvements are already released so.

C

Yeah they're already related pipeline.

A

Graph view, I should be able to compare it to blue oceans graph, rendering and any surprises I find you'll happily take as big.

C

Yeah file, an issue with just with a simple pipeline: if you see recent one, basically, just don't don't use an agent just basically just put your stages in and put echoes to identify what stage they are or whatever. So, if you see my ones here, they're all um so it'll be something like agent in your agent. None mostly agent, none um and then using echo, not shell, because you don't need an agent just so they run super quick, because it's just about visualization um and a lot of these go into the unit tests as well.

C

So they unit tests will um show the visualization make sure the visualization doesn't regress when changes are made so yeah in any thing, we're interested in um yeah, anything that doesn't match promotion currently, unless there's been decided to deviate. So with these synthetic stages have been pulled up and they've been marked as italics, just to kind of highlight that they're a little bit different they're, not you don't have any control over what they're named or anything they.

C

They are actually prefixed with declarative colon space, which is not really very useful and just takes up a ton of space. So if you look at, I don't know if there's any declarative on cigars, ai.

A

Yeah acceptance test so under infra acceptance tests.

A

I think the uh yeah check agent availability, I think, is declarative, nope nope. Sorry, it's not helping us.

C

Back okay! So anyway, if there.

A

Are declaratives.

C

That, due to a global checkout, you'll get a stage here which says: declarative, checkout sem and basically it strips that, and this implementation same with post actions. It strips that and the reason for it one was it's not helpful and two was it: the label just cut off because you're only allowed like 10 characters or whatever before you're outside here, and you get the dots the same as blue ocean.

C

I think this is probably an example with long labels somewhere not sure welcome to the so it's all the matrix builds.

C

Yeah, so it's these sort of things.

C

Which is not very great and will be good to improve, but just needs to figure out how to make that readable without spamming. It.

E

I mean just doing the values might be a start.

C

Yeah.

E

So there was a suggestion: just linux, chrome,.

B

Yeah.

C

And so there was one suggestion to do matrix brackets um and just making it a lot shorter. Basically,.

C

But yeah just dropping matrix and simplifying it.

B

Yeah not sure.

B

Joe anything else.

A

Looks brilliant tim thank you and thanks to whoever that contributor is that contributed those fixes? That's that's really great.

B

Yeah, that was.

C

Mike gelfand, yes, he did all the back graph fixes. Basically.

B

Just been.

C

Really good and then I've just been yeah working on some of the console view and the um cards.

C

And yeah, I hope to do some more work on it before devops world and probably show this as well.

A

Yeah, thank you that's great.

A

So next topic on our agenda was, let's see, and you should see my screen again. Do you see the agenda yeah? Okay, good next topic I had was hacktoberfest and uxzig and patty. You wanted to bring this topic.

H

Yeah hi, uh I haven't seen you all in quite a while, but um I'm back um so um poppy's is trying to um get more people involved in contributing and seeing the jenkins workspace. And so I have a ui background.

H

So I'm helping with um some of the organization stuff that is happening with oktoberfest for us, and I was hoping that maybe there would be some good um issues that we could maybe get from the group um just to say I I've heard that maybe it's not the best place to be a first time contributor to jenkins. So of course I will take your um your feedback with me, but I was just curious.

H

You know to kind of get the feel of the group to see if it's something that you all had typically participated in as maintainers before or not just trying to get a temperature feel.

A

So so part of me wondered that most of the ui things for me are are beyond a first-time contributor, but with uli. Here I wonder, maybe there are things from his experience with coursework at the university and his environment for warnings, ng and data tables that maybe that is more of a hacktoberfest kind of topic. Uli. Could you absorb hacktoberfest contributions or or did you find them a distraction in years past.

G

Yes, I I tried to use a hackathon last year or oktoberfest last year to get some contributors on the ux side, but this was a real disappointment. I I think I created about 30 issues in the code coverage plug-in and the warnings plug-in, which are only ui related.

G

Some were really easy and some were a little bit more difficult, but actually two issues have been picked, but nobody completed actually any work. So I spent a lot of work to create these issues but yeah I had no output at all, so I thought maybe it's too difficult.

G

The problem is you you, you need your ux experience and you need jenkins experience to understand what's going on, and I think this was the main problem that if you have a ux expert, then you don't have someone who knows what is code coverage and what to show in code coverage. So I'm not sure if it's so helpful.

B

Mm-Hmm she.

G

Does issues.

B

Sorry.

H

Sorry, I just do those issues still exist in that plug-in.

G

um I I think, a lot of them I fix on my own, um and but there are still some here yeah there are some remaining, they are still open and I removed the oktoberfest label, but I can add it again, so I'm fine with it to edit again, but I'm not sure if it's really so helpful.

H

Yeah, I know uh part of what I'm trying to do is get a list so that we have them so that when we're in a group, because we actually have some dedicated time for our community team this year, um as well as with our like design system team- and we have four uh front-end engineers on that team um and so having a list of what we you know is available in the jenkins space.

H

For us to go, try to tackle um might help get better eyes on those tagged issues, but also I realize that it's you know it's it's a it's an ask for a little bit of work for our maintainers, who um are active in this workspace and so definitely want to make sure that we're respectful of that and being helpful and not adding more. You know useless work for you.

B

Yeah sorry.

G

Yeah, but I think it's not so really useless, because uh I I use these issues uh in a for different audience and, for instance, I use them these issues. For my students, that's okay, too, so I just noticed that it was not um really helpful for oktoberfest yeah. So uh what I can do is to review these issues that I have, and I also can add, a lot of new ones, uh a lot of them I can add, so maybe it's helpful and if it's not helpful, it's not.

G

uh The effort is okay to spend, because I can reuse these issues for other projects as well. So.

H

Okay, yeah, I mean that would be great. I know I'm I'm really interested in getting my hands dirty with jenkins. um I would be a first time contributor to jenkins, so I would be super curious to see what those issues are, um but also I can help kind of um mobilize them within our teams.

G

Yeah there are some simple issues just to support our black theme. For instance, there are a lot of things which are not really working yet, so this shouldn't be hard to implement.

G

Even for someone who does not know jenkins, really good, okay, okay, um well,.

B

I think I can.

G

Prepare one in to the next week uh and make a list of these issues and send them to the ux list or to you directly how you prefer it's: okay, yeah.

H

Yeah, that would be great. That would be extremely helpful. Thank you. So much okay.

G

Yeah, I'm fine.

C

Yeah there's a number of open issues on jira, which some of them are probably fine for new contributors, some of them not. So um it's quite a lot of open, ux regressions, which could probably be looked at um apart from that there's. If it's like ex more experienced from engineers, there's pieces of work that getting a bit stalled that could certainly be helped with in certain areas, I'm not sure, there's things like tepee and then there was the jenkins button. Rework that was tried a while ago, which would be nice to revive.

H

Okay, would it be, would it be helpful for me to go through the jira and pull things that I that I think are what you're talking about and post them in the getter to get feedback on if these are ones? That would be good, first-time issues.

C

Yeah, you could also do it on the ux sig repo, with a issue or discussion, um um because getter doesn't really thread so well for ongoing discussion. Okay,.

A

So tim, the ux sig repo, that's can you, could you hook the url to that? I don't have that immediately available. I've put in the chat. I can ah thank you good. I can put it into the page then. If you've got in the chat.

A

Thanks.

H

This is awesome. Thank you. So much.

E

Great, so, to what degree would um adapting plug-ins to recent ui work in core be a viable beginner task for oktoberfest in general, like like I'm thinking of all of these css classes like jenkins, table and jenkins button and stuff, like that, I imagine, there's probably a thousand plugins that might need updating or to what degree do they need to be adapted to those changes.

B

Yep that.

C

Would be good piece of work that would be fairly straightforward, plugins, like lockable resources, um others, it's the most prominent one. I know that's not adapted. There's been a lot, the more common ones have been adapted, um but I'm sure there's plenty of other useful ones to look at.

A

So and daniel, when you say, uh adapting them to the jenkins design library, you specifically mentioned css css changes. I guess tables to divs. If they've not already rem, if they depend on a version after 277, they could remove the workaround.

A

uh I know I'm just I was just working on one yesterday that hasn't yet been adapted, because it's such low volume so tables to divs kind of things. Okay,.

E

More like the general tables like on about jenkins with the dependencies and the versions and the licenses or the plugin manager table, I think there's a change there to make them look a lot different than before.

E

I I haven't thought about this beforehand. So there's probably a bunch of potential changes where the ui yes big table is the old one. I think, and that now needs to be a jenkins table or something right.

G

Yes, another thing would be icons and colors to use the new defaults that we have.

C

Yes, yeah yeah and another project is things like ripping out back to build links and that sort of thing and removing side panels that don't need to be done like so. I didn't actually show it today, but there's a um I did a pull request on the credentials plugin to rework its layout, but um so it basically removes the side panels mostly and moves um any actions from that into the app bar along with a couple other fixes. I think.

A

Okay, so, and and those some some or all of those tim sounded like they might be good first issues or are those yeah. I mean that credentials plug-in layout. Rework, I think, was way beyond a new, a first-time contributor, but icons and colors seems sounds like it could be within reach.

B

Yep.

E

Yeah to a degree, the challenge here is basically identifying plugins that misbehave in some way, not everything is as simple as tim's query for bigtable the keyword, but one of the things is, for example, if you would not have a site panel with links other than you know back to dashboard, then we would change the layout to not have a site panel at all. I think is the current rule and if you know of plugins that do have such pages then very low hanging, fruit kind of improvement is change.

E

The layout of the page, which is basically just one keyword in the layout tag and it'll, look consistent with the current design library rules.

E

I think there are a handful of these changes that we can define very generically, um and then you know if you have your favorite plugin, that few other people are using, and you want to look into whether you probably as as a jenkins user. You probably already know whether that plugin behaves according to these rules or not, and if it doesn't, you can follow, pull requests for it.

A

Good, thank you all right, so patty. I think that addressed your question thanks very much for bringing it any other items on hacktoberfest, so we're now at 14 september. So we're in what the hacktoberfest team calls preptember welcome to prep timber. We're very glad that you're here and hacktoberfest starts october. 1.

A

All right ready for next topic now we're we're just past the hour daniel you had said you open, ux regressions might be brief. Would we like to take two more minutes for open, ux, regressions um and then in the meeting, or do you think it's going to take longer than that? What's your preference, daniel.

E

I think it's pretty quick. It's just me sounding like a broken record.

A

Okay, go ahead.

E

um So yeah uh we have a bunch of ux related regressions and they're, not all trivial, to resolve, as we've seen in some core pull requests. uh Usually the change that causes a problem has been done for a reason and just removing a line of css will not.

E

While it makes the problem go away, it introduces a different problem.

E

So I wanted to raise this to this group that roughly a third of all ux regressions uh filed over the last nine months or so are still open, and I don't think that's a great state, because, while the improvements are nice, if at the same and they look great and everything at the same time, they break people's use cases, um then you know, acceptance of those changes uh goes down right, and so I think it's important for us being able to deliver these changes, especially larger scale.

E

Changes to also address reported regressions uh in a timely manner.

A

Thanks thanks for the highlight well and this ux regressions over time, dashboard I'll put a link to that into the or you've already put it into the page. Haven't you yes good? Thank you.

E

It's basically just a graph for the same query as tim's dashboard. It just highlights not just what's currently open, but how much has been filed and how much of that has been addressed and, as you can see, there's quite the gap, both in absolute terms as well as in relative terms. A third of all file regression still being open is is a lot thank you and it seems to keep growing.

A

Thanks for highlighting any anything else on open, ux, regressions.

C

I would say that in some area, daniel's overstating the impact um like breaking users, credit breaking users, functionality. um I don't think there's any example of things actually broken um other than a password manager fill or something that's been broken for years.

C

There's a few oddities, but um there's nothing that I'm aware of that's actually broken other than so.

C

The only one that users care about is the weather icons, one which we really just need an svg to replace it with that looks nice, and that was done by the cloud-based ux team before they well the cloud-based team that was working on this before they rolled off the last thing that was done was these weather icons and I think we just don't have a good weather icon set, but that's the only one that uses there's more, that users are up and arms about.

C

um Obviously these need fixing, but I think it's kind of overstatement of the regressions.

D

I I do have a branch for the weather icons. um Would it be worth I'm getting that up and getting it reviewed? Even if the icons aren't perfect, I guess we can iterate later um yeah.

C

If they solve the.

D

Kind of issues, the user having.

C

That's the only one there where there's any users complaining. As far as I know,.

C

The rest are oddities that have been picked up and filed um like the sign-in button's gone a little bit extra focused recently for some unrelated change, um but it's not affecting anyone.

A

Thanks tim, any any other comments or any other items on ux regressions.

A

All right, then, I propose we go ahead and end I'll after the recording is archived I'll upload a copy of the recording I'm going to actually put index points into this one so that people can see jump to various points in the demos. Thanks john thanks tim looking forward to seeing everybody at devops world. Thank you very, very much.

B

Too, thank you. Thank.

A

You.
youtube image
From YouTube: Jenkins UX SIG Meeting 14 Sep 2022

Description

Jenkins user experience special interest group 14 Sep 2022.

03:45 - UX prototype - Jan Faracik
30:53 - Pipeline graph view latest fixes and improvements - Tim Jacomb
47:13 - Hacktoberfest and the Jenkins UX SIG - Patti McLetchie
1:00:40 - Open UX regressions - Daniel Beck