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From YouTube: Business Meeting for Tuesday, June 14, 2022
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B
Good
morning,
all
right,
I'm
dwight
king,
I'm,
chair
of
the
kansas
corporation
commission,
I'm
joined
this
morning
by
fellow
commissioner,
susan
duffy
and
andrew
french.
At
this
time.
I
will
call
to
order
this
meeting
in
the
kansas
corporation
commission
on
this
tuesday
june
14
2022.
commissioners.
The
first
manners
up
for
our
consideration
this
morning
are
17
items
on
the
consent
agenda.
B
B
A
A
B
B
We
have
one
noticed
item
this
morning
at
the
request
of
the
sierra
club.
This
morning
we
have
a
presentation
to
the
commission
regarding
svp
ordering
elcc
and
reverse
adequacy
in
kansas.
Our
presenter
this
morning
is
ty
gorman,
who
is
the
kansas
campaign
representative
for
the
sierra
club
good
morning
time.
B
D
D
D
A
D
Well,
first
just
want
to
take
this
time
since
I'm
we're
waiting
here.
I
want
to
thank
you
very
much
for
having
me
here
today,
as
chair
keen
said,
I'm
tight,
gorman,
the
kansas
representative
for
the
sierra
club
and
then
beyond
coal
campaign,
especially
and
I
we
represent
tens
of
thousands
of
kansans
who
support
an
equitable
transition
from
coal
to
clean
energy
by
2030
in
order
to
meet
affordability,
reliability,
health
and
climate
goals.
D
The
elcc
calculations
depend
on
the
type
of
renewable
technology
being
studied
patterns
in
electric
usage
and
the
type
and
quantity
of
other
resources
already
on
the
grid,
but
ultimately
it
just
measures
whether
it
can
prevent
electricity
shortages
in
any
given
time.
So
implementing
the
eocc
properly
would
allow
kansas
to
include
generations
of
resources
from
many
different
owners
in
our
capacity
modeling
and
and
give
value
for
that
capacity
to
those
owners.
D
It
would
allow
us
to
ramp
up
solar
storage
and
other
grid.
Reliability
needs
faster
and
cheaper
than
the
utility
could
do
it
on
its
own.
So
that's
a
quick
overview
of
elcc.
The
other
one
I
want
to
discuss
is
for
order
2222.,
that
one
removes
barriers
from
customer
side,
energy
resources
and
it
creates
opportunities
for
increased
grid,
reliability
and
economic
value
for
customers
through
clean
energy
like
demand,
response,
storage
and
renewables,
and
a
variety
of
other
customer
side
of
the
meter
applications,
especially
those
that
can
be
aggregated.
D
D
A
D
So,
just
a
quick
look
at
the
status
of
where
these
rules
are
right.
Now
in
spp
for
the
elcc
spp
provided
a
some
some
details
of
our
filing
a
few
months
ago,
and
that
filing
was
rejected.
They
asked
questions
from
ferc
and
they'll
be
providing
a
new
filing
in
the
future.
The
2222s
just
received
comments
on
june,
9th
and
and
protests
on
their
filing
of
how
they're
attempting
to
comply
with
order
2222..
D
So
we'll
go
over
here.
You
know
what
those
two
are
missing
in
the
next
few
slides,
we'll
look
at
how
that
affects,
or
what
kind
of
reliability,
affordability
and
energy
burden
issues
these
bills
affect,
and
look
at
how
the
kcc
can
incorporate
and
distribute
energy
resources
and
the
lcc
accreditation
kansas
markets.
D
So
you
know
basically
we
want
to
get
our
communities
the
benefits
of
customer
side
generation
and
distributed
energy
resources
and
wholesale
markets.
That's
the
purpose
of
these
rules
and
the
spp
is
slow
to
move
towards
successful
implementation
of
the
rules.
Utilities
are
still
struggling
to
see
how
they
can
best
meet
profit
targets
under
these
new
technologies
and
they're
in
this
new
paradigm
and
of
distributed
energy.
D
B
D
No
sbp
has
met
the
deadlines
and
then
so
then
there
was
a
a
comment
reply
period
and
then
ferc
replied
to
the
elcc
deadline.
Spp
met
the
2222
deadline
and
then
that
will
be
consideration
of
the
protests
and
comments
that
were
just
received
and
then
a
reply
from
ferc
on
that.
So
just
moving
through
the
process,
but
no
so
so
far
haven't
met.
The
the
spp
hasn't
met.
What
the
orders
require,
but
they're
moving
through
that
process.
E
D
C
D
To
my
understanding,
all
the
rtos
in
the
country,
other
than
mizo
and
spp
so
far
have
have
met
that
met
the
order.
I
haven't
myself
gone
through
each
of
their
filings
to
see
which
is
best
from
our
point
of
view,
but
I
think
that
I
would
look
to
if
I
were
trying
to
figure
out
how
this
would
play
out
here.
D
D
Thanks
the
some
of
the
things
that
are
missing
from
order
2222
is,
they
have
very
restricted
geographic
areas
from
which
they
can
draw
distributed.
Energy
resource
aggregations,
there's
really
kind
of
some
barriers
being
put
up
within
the
spp
filing
that
we
don't
think,
have
any
need
to
be
there
and
will
make
the
cost
and
efficacy
of
these
resources
go
down.
So
they
need
to
expand
their
geographic
reach
for
aggregations
that
they
allow
in
spp.
They
should
remove
also
that
this
very
burdensome
metering
and
telemetry
requirements.
D
So
far,
there's
this
kind
of
byzantine
process.
Where
there's
I
mean,
there's
a
68
timeline
required
in
the
rule,
but
it's
a
something
that
can
expire
and
if
the
utility
doesn't
have
time
to
or
incentive
to
to
put
the
distributed
resource
on
the
grid.
It
can
just
reply
that
it
doesn't
see
that
that
resource
is
safe
or
doesn't
isn't
able
to
complete
that
kind
of
assessment
and
the
resource
isn't
on
the
grid,
and
so
there's
really
just
not
a
great
process.
D
D
So
that's
most
of
what
are
some
some
of
our
major
issues
with
that
filing
the
participants
in
the
regional
market
are
are
already,
I
think,
speaking
with
utilities
and
with
the
kcc.
Possibly
some
of
these
aggregators
so
encourage
more
communication
like
that
and
and
spps
filing
gives
leeway
to
kcc
and
evergy
to
work
on
these
barriers,
develop
reliable,
low
cost,
flexible
load
from
behind
the
meter
resources
ahead
of
the
to
begin
working
through
these
issues
ahead
of
the
2025
deadline.
D
D
They
have
a
four
hour
continuous
runtime
requirement
that
ignores
some
realities
of
how
storage
can
cycle
and
continue
to
provide
effective
generation
over
you
know
much
longer
than
that
period
and
or
within
shorter
increments
than
that
period
and
finding
finally,
the
value
to
their
the
elcc's
value
to
resources
based
on
the
is
based
on
the
utility
relationship
with
that
resource
owner,
and
that
is
discriminatory
as
well.
The
utility
controlling
that
relationship
to
the
extent
that
it
doesn't
that.
B
D
D
E
B
Sure
that's
very
helpful.
I
I
think
what
you're
what
I'm
hearing
you
say
is
the
process
is
quite
deliberative
and
I
take
it
that
that
that
plays
into
an
attempt
to
really
engage
in
a
genuine
back
and
forth
to
try
to
determine
the
extent
of
deficiencies
and
whether
they're
present
is
that
fair
conclusion.
D
Yes,
thank
you.
Thank
you
both
very
much
and
so
we'll
exactly
in
what
terry
just
said,
we'll
continue
to
work
on
these
issues,
they're
on
the
right
here
on
the
discriminoid,
discriminatory
treatment
of
clean
technologies
and
to
get
their
full
capacity
value,
and
we
can
look
a
little
bit
at
in
the
next
slide
at
why
that
is
important
for
affordability
and
then
reliability
after
that
within
the
kansas
context.
D
A
This
is
jeff
mclennan.
Sorry.
Could
you
sort
of
reconcile
for
me?
You
know,
I
think
you.
You
said
that
that,
like
some
of
the
issues
that
svp
is
or
I'm
sorry
perk
is
addressing
it's
discriminatory
in
nature.
But
how
do
you
reconcile
the
perceived
discriminatory
nature
of
some
of
those
issues
versus
reliability
in
the
sense
that
you
know,
storage
still
has
some
issues
right,
there's
still
fires
associated
with
battery
storage.
A
D
C
C
My
concern
is
that
we
have
multiple
ders,
you
know
and
and
various
places,
just
the
and
we
become
reliant
on
them,
that
the
the
cyber
security
aspect
of
of
of
trying
to
protect
those
and
and
ensuring
their
reliability
are.
Are
we
at
that
point
where
I
to
me,
that's
why
I
think
some
of
this
information
perhaps
is
important
so
that
the
utility
can
really
weigh
the
security
of
that
resource
out
there.
D
Yeah
thanks
for
the
question
commissioner
duffy
not
not
not
being
a
security
expert,
myself
or
knowing
too
much
about
the
cyber
security
aspects
that
utilities
have
to
invest
in
at
that
level.
I
can
just
tell
you
that
three
experts
that
I've
read
on
this
have
been
pretty
clear:
that
the
single
point
of
failure
versus
the
distributed
energy
resources
in
that
dynamic
distributed
energy
resources
are
much
more
reliable
from
that
perspective,
because
you
know
if
the
cyber
security
is
compromised
on
a
very
necessary
fossil
plant,
then
that
is
or
cuts
off
some.
D
D
A
D
D
So
that's
where
we're
coming
from
there.
We
look
at
the
cost
of
the
of
building
that
plant
and
versus
the
cost
of
building
these
clean
energy
resources
and
that's
and
then
added
to
that.
We
have
the
you
know
the
climate
and
health
impacts
of
the
gas
plant,
but
also
the
price
spikes
that
aren't
included
in
our
analysis
from
fuel.
D
B
D
D
Well,
that's
a
that's
a
big
question.
I
mean
I
can't
say
that
I'm
an
expert
on
that
I'd
be
happy
to
get
a
full,
we'll
run
down
a
meeting
on
that
in
the
future
with
you.
But
you
know.
I
know
that
during
the
winter
storm,
for
example,
as
far
as
the
price
spikes
go,
the
the
producers
and
the
pipelines
had
conflicts
and
and
production
issues
that
would
cause
such
extreme
price
spikes
and
those
haven't.
As
far
as
all
the
analysis,
I've
seen
been
solved
across
those
two
sectors.
D
B
That's,
I
think,
that's
a
very
fair
answer.
It
wasn't
I'm
not
trying
to
mousetrap
you
here,
but
I
guess
I
guess
I
I
would
rhetorically
wonder
if
a
major
underlying
reason
isn't
the
under
investment
in
expiration
and
production,
for
whatever
reasons,
whether
it's
historically
low
gas
prices
that
have
discouraged
exploration
so
that
it
can
meet
higher
demand
in
a
post-covet
environment
or
whatever
I'm
saying
that.
B
D
All
right,
thank
you,
chuck
keane
yeah.
This
slide
here
gets
at
that
a
little
bit
a
quick
look
at
the
quantities
of
clean
energy.
We
need
to
replace
kansas
coal
plants,
and
these
clean
energy
portfolios
are
meant
to
exactly
replicate
the
rampability,
the
capacity
in
extreme
weather
over
you
know
over
the
whole
year
of
extreme
weather
that
we've
modeled
out.
D
D
D
D
I
also
mentioned
that
winter
storm
yuri
in
those
spp
reports
showed
that
even
in
that
extreme
weather
as
well,
renewables
were
meeting
their
expected
capacity,
which
is
what
this
particular
chart
will
be
measuring
with
all
this
solar
during
that
crisis.
Well,
of
course,
gas
catastrophically
failed
and
coal
performed
below
20
of
its
expected
capacity
during
that
extreme
weather
event.
So,
just
from
a
liability
standpoint
to
plug
the
clean
energy
that
we
can
ramp
up
faster
with
the
lcc
and
order
2222.
D
B
So
what
you're
suggesting
is
that
over
the
because
of
the
increased
investment
in
the
various
types
of
renewables
that
will
compensate
in
effect
or,
let's
assume,
a
worst-case
basis
where
battery
storage
technology
remains
flat
throughout
the
entire
period
going
into
2030.
Notwithstanding
that,
the
the
the
increased
investment
in
these
in
in
these
kinds
of
resources
would
compensate
for
that,
because
if
I
rephrase
that
correctly.
D
I
think
so
I
mean
I
would
say
that
it's
not
increased
investment,
since
all
these
resources
are
cheaper,
but
it's
increased
name
plate
capacity,
so
you'd
have
a
big
increase
in
the
amount
of
nameplate
energy
that
we're
installing
versus
the
coal
plant,
and
the
capacity
value
of
each
of
the
intermediate
or
intermittent
technologies
are,
of
course,
rated
lower
than
that
goal
so
yeah.
All
these
together
can
meet
those
demands,
even
if
one
of
them
goes
flat
or
if
you
know
extreme
weather
comes.
B
D
B
B
D
Yeah,
I
don't
have
a
number
for
you
right
now.
It
totally
depends,
of
course,
on
location,
and
you
know
how
it's
implemented
and
if
it's
implemented,
for
example,
in
through
inverter
resources,
that
impact
would
be
negligible
if
it's
put
way
out
in
the
in
the
drier
part
of
kansas
and
has
to
have
new
lines
well.
That
would
be
that
they'd
only
do
that,
because
it
would
be
the
cheaper
version
of
the
the
resource
sighting.
I
would
assume
so
yeah.
B
I
appreciate
the
the
one
of
the
major
impetuses
for
the
question
is
not
only
the
the
the
rate
impact
to
to
kansas
rate
payers,
potentially
from
the
capital
expenditure
build-outs
that
might
be
required,
but
also
the
the
the
pace
at
which
that
might
be
required
to
to
to
to
occur
in
accommodating
such
a
a
reduced
as
going
out
to
2030,
rather
than
40
and
beyond.
It's
a
reduced
time
frame
within
which
to
accomplish
the
goals.
D
I
would
say
that
you
know
solar
can
be
built
much
much
closer
to
load
than
than
the
wind
has
been
in
the
past.
The
transmission
costs
don't
need
to
be
as
high
for
the
solar
technology
and
they
can
be
built
all
over
where
the
jeffrey
energy
center
stands
right
now
and
produce
a
big
chunk
of
that
that
energy,
that's
that
we
list
out
there
and
but
yeah,
but
that
kind
of
analysis
is
really
helping.
D
D
E
Through
these,
if
I
may
ty,
this
is
sherry
albrecht.
I
noticed
that
this
slide
relies
pretty
heavily
on
solar
resources,
and
you
make
reference
in
the
title
of
this
slide
that
you're
that
shortens
the
timeline
there
is
there.
It
is
an
issue
with
spp's
generation
interconnection
queue,
and
so
I'm
just
curious
to
what
timeline
for
solar.
You
anticipate
with
this
slide.
E
I'm
not
sure
that
it
does
entirely.
Are
you
suggesting
that
kansas
separate,
and
apart
from
it
from
the
utility
participation
at
spp,
could
be
implementing
its
own
elc
accreditation
processes
in
its
own
order?
2222
processes,
ahead
of
ahead
of
what
ferc
is,
would
authorize
with
regard
to
each
of
those.
D
No,
no,
I
was
referring
I'll
address
this
also
in
the
in
the
recommendations
at
the
end,
to
basically
calls
from
svp
during
their
working
group
meetings
for
regulators
and
utilities
to
to
get
involved
and
begin
working
through
all
of
the
authority,
issues
that
need
to
be
around
incentive
structures
and
and
the
best
way
to
move
forward.
With
a
transition
like
this
and
and
then,
of
course,
the
ferc
implementation
of
the
of
the
ruling
would
be
would
have
to
come
before.
D
D
D
I
would
say
that
to
get
to
894
megawatts
over
the
next
few
years,
we'd
have
to
increase
the
energy
efficiency
proposals
that
have
been
made
by
energy
so
far,
quite
a
bit
and
we're
hoping
that
does
happen
over
the
next
few
years
to
to
triple
the
type
of
self-investment
that
they're
looking
at
now
in
energy
efficiency
and
demand
side
resources,
but
that
that
isn't
that
particular
like
roll
out
ramp
up
or
not.
But
you
know,
the
roll
out
of
the
programs
are
not
quantified
within
this
slide.
D
Thank
you
all
right.
Well,
we
can
jump
through
these
other
slides.
I
just
wanted
to
mention
also
in
the
context
of
the
lcc
in
2222,
that
the
both
those
rules
can
have
an
effect
on
and
be
beneficial
for
the
energy
burden
issue.
That's
so
near
and
dear
to
sierra
club's
heart
that
we
have
brought
to
you
many
times,
just
a
quick
refresher
here.
D
D
I'd
say
all
of
our
advocacy
work
is,
is
focused
on
there's
just
those
issues,
and
I
couldn't
agree
more
with
you
on
on
that
with
landlords.
Specifically,
you
know
we're
working
in
the
in
the
efficiency
docket,
so
I
won't
bring
that
stuff
up
necessarily
here,
but
but
a
lot
of
our
focus
is
certainly
on
low
income
and
renter
communities
within
the
energy
efficiency
context,
at
all
times,
and
and
also
working
with
our
partners
in
the
in
the
docket
and
outside
of
it
to
to
advocate
for.
D
So
it's
there's
a
whole
suite
of
innovative
programs
that
are
around
the
country
and
would
love
to
continue
to
work
on
that
and
part
of
the
way
to
work
on
that
is
within
the
energy
efficiency,
docket
and
the
utility
programs.
That's
a
good
good
part
of
the
energy
efficiency
needs
that
we
have
and
we
should
push
and
increase
that
as
much
as
we
can
as
far
as
the
investment,
but
and
on
the
other
side.
D
A
D
D
Great
thanks
so
much-
and
this
just
shows
you
know
by
census-
tract
these-
are
majority
black
census,
tracts
that
have
energy
expenditure
four
to
five
times
higher
than
they
should
be
and
and
and
then
their
white
colleagues
are
paying.
For
you
know
for
much
lower
income
groups,
elc
and
2022
implementation
can
lower
prices
and
work
well.
With
other
demand
side
programs
to
reduce
energy
burden,
raise
household
income
in
in
black
and
latino
census
tracts
all
right.
D
I
think
we
can
go
to
the
next
one
there
just
won't.
I
won't
go
over
all
this
text,
but
I
know
last
when
we've
spoken
in
the
past,
it's
been
good
to
to
pull
some
utility
programs
or
to
some
other
states
as
examples
of
the
kind
of
implementation
that
I'm
talking
about-
and
I
know
you
know
kansas
can
look
to
other
experiences
around
the
country.
D
I
split
these
into
kind
of
the
best
practice
states
over
there,
hawaii
and
new
york,
and
some
california
and
oregon
utilities
are
doing
comprehensive
programs,
but
then
I
also
wanted
to
put
some
some
more
some
more
conservative
states
that
have
programs
that
are
implementing
these
types
of
distributed.
Energy
resources-
I
won't
go
into
it
anymore
than
that
unless
there
are
questions-
and
I
can
do
more
research
and
work
with
folks
to
to
dig
into
the
details
of
these
at
your
request,
you
can
go
to
the
next
slide
if
you're
able
thank
you.
D
D
So
the
some
of
the
thorny
issues
I
mentioned
earlier
that
we
can
start
working
on
now
are
listed
out
here
on
the
blue
side
and
then
on
the
white
side.
There
getting
this
getting
the
rules
as
stated,
and
the
implications
of
them
sort
of
put
into
the
planning
work
that
we
do
in
the
state
is
a
very
important
step
here.
D
If
we're
not
going
to
look
at
what
the
future
is
definitely
going
to
hold
for
us,
the
energy
future
and
then-
and
we
don't
plan
for
that
until
the
rules
are-
you
know,
kind
of
forced
in
on
us-
then
that'll
give
us
a
disadvantage
and
hurt
what
we
heard
her
customers,
affordability
and
reliability
needs
that
we
could
have
been
building
towards.
In
the
meantime,.
A
D
Kansas
can
get
a
head
start
on
the
customer
benefits
from
those
ferc
rules
by
working
with
the
utility
now
and
spp
to
find
the
right
incentive
structures
and
incorporate
these
customer
side.
Resources
into
evergy's
planning
and
modeling
processes
now
develop
the
relationships
that
are
needed
to
implement
through
these
distributed
energy
resources
and
equitable
transition
away
from
coal
and
towards
new,
clean,
affordable,
reliable
resources
where
we
can
can
work
with
each
other
and
reduce
the
burden
on
our
communities
and
I'll
leave
it
there
and
answer
any
questions
again.
A
B
A
Times,
commissioner,
french-
I
I
don't
necessarily
have
a
question,
but
I
I
just
wanted
to
thank
you
for
all
the
information.
I
know
I
didn't
ask
a
lot
of
questions
this
morning
and-
and
please
don't
take
that
as
a
lack
of
interest
in
the
concepts
I
I
am
definitely
in
learn
mode
on
all
of
this
right
now,
and
these
are
this.
Transition
is
happening
and
we're
all
trying
to
figure
out
what
the
most
reliable
and
affordable
way
to
make
it
happen
is.
A
I
agree
with
a
lot
of
what
you're
saying
that
we've
got
to
reduce
the
energy
burden,
especially
on
disadvantaged
and
low-income
communities,
and
so
that
is
part
of
the
package
as
well
as
far
as
accreditation
goes.
You
know
I
do.
I
agree
that
we
need
to
appropriately
accredit
our
clean
energy
resources,
because
those
are
kansas,
energy
resources
and
we
want
to
get
full
credit
for
that.
A
At
the
same
time
to
me,
I
don't
know
if
it's
the
bigger
bigger
concern,
but
maybe
the
more
pressing
concern
is
making
sure
we
appropriately
accredit
our
traditional
resources.
I
think
that's
maybe
where
we
saw
our
shortfall
during
winter
storm,
jury
and
so
starting
to
apply
some
more
performance,
accreditation
metrics
to
traditional
resources,
I
think,
will
be
helpful
and
and
potentially
also
valuing
the
availability
of
those
resources
we're
starting
to
find
out
which
ones
were
and
were
not
available,
and
if
we
can
compensate
resources
for
being
available.
A
C
And
if
I
could
add
my
two
cents
worth,
I
think
it's
valuable
that
we
hear
from
the
sierra
club
and
on
not
just
this
issue
but
other
issues.
I
think
it's
important
for
me
as
an
individual
commissioner,
but
also
as
the
commission
as
a
whole
and
staff,
to
hear
your
your
thoughts,
your
modeling,
what
you
you
guys
have
done
as
it
relates
to
kansas
and
getting
that
other
perspective.
C
I
do
I
I
would
agree
with
what
commissioner
french
said.
These
changes
are
coming
and
how
well
we
implement
them
is
extremely
important.
I
believe
that
storm
yuri
will
continue
to
be
a
petri
dish
that
we
can
use
to
model
the
worst
what-if
situation
and
the
fact
that
it
really
did
happen.
I
think
again
a
learning
experience
for
all
of
us
on
all
our
types
of
generation
and
how
well
they
performed
as
we
head
into
the
summer
months
of
a
summer.
That's
already
good
grief,
it's
just
sweating
hot
out
there.
C
B
No,
you
didn't
I
I
talked
over.
You
know
I
didn't
mean
to
I
apologize.
Thank
you
very
much
ty
for
being
here.
I
want
to
thank
as
well.
I
appreciate
jeff
and
commissioner
albrecht
for
their
contributions
to
this
it
it's
always
instructed,
even
when
we
have
more
thoughts
that
are
being
advanced
in
the
public
arena
here
that
especially
informed
ones
and
that's
certainly
true
of
both
jeff
and
sherry.
I
think
with
that
tai
will
thank
you
once
again
and
please
don't
be
a
stranger
all.