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From YouTube: Joint Meeting w/ IJC on Natural Resources and Energy and IJC on Agriculture (9/15/21) - REUPLOAD
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B
B
B
Thank
you,
representative,
duplessy
representative
flannery,
president
and
district.
Thank
you,
representative,
fugate,
president
in
the
room
representative
johnson
president
of
13th,
thank
you,
representative,
kirk,
mccormick,
president
from
the
93rd
district.
Thank
you,
representative,
marzian
present
in
my
district.
Thank
you
representative
miles
present
in
the
room
representative,
gibbons
prunty,
president
from
the
15th
district.
Thank
you,
representative,
scott
representative,
president,
in
district
41..
B
C
F
D
F
G
F
A
J
Thank
you
very
much
and
thank
you
to
the
chairs
and
the
co-chairs
and
committee
members
for
having
us
today
to
talk
about
large-scale,
solar
and
land
use,
and
we
have
quite
a
few
bullet
points
to
go
over
we're
going
to
kind
of
go
a
little
bit
fast,
but
we'll
hang
around
in
case
the
committee
members
have
any
have
any
questions
for
us,
so
I
will
introduce
kenya
stump
who's.
Also
going
to
be
talking
about
some
of
these
slides
with
me.
J
Kenya
is
our
executive
director
of
the
office
of
energy
policy
in
the
cabinet.
So
you
might
ask
yourself,
you
know
why
is
kentucky
suited
for
large-scale
solar
and
I
will
just
say
that
you
know
that
that,
while
the
cost
of
installing
solar
is
declining
and
making
that
more
attractive,
kentucky
is
very
well
situated
to
have
access
to
two
wholesale
electricity
markets,
pjm
and
myso,
and
we
have
a
very
robust
and
reliable
transmission
infrastructure.
J
Mine
lands,
and
we
have
a
tool
that
we'll
talk
a
little
bit
about
which
can
help
developers
do
that,
and
I
guess
the
one
of
the
biggest
reasons
that
we're
seeing
a
lot
of
interest
and
a
lot
of
development
activity
in
kentucky
is
because
there's
a
corporate
demand
for
renewable
electricity.
I
think
economic
development
and
that
corporate
demand
will
continue
to
be
primary
movers
toward
encouraging
solar
development
in
kentucky
and,
if
there's
anything
that
you
take
away
from
our
presentation
today.
J
J
It's
a
decision
between
the
farmer
and
the
developer,
but
it
is
possible
and
we're
seeing
this
a
little
bit
in
kentucky
right
now
to
to
graze
livestock.
Specifically,
sheep
is
what
we're
seeing,
but
it
is
also
possible
to
graze
cattle
and
we're
also
seeing
some
interest
in
planting
row
crops
among
a
solar
development.
I
think
the
latest
questions
we've
got
have
to
do
with
growing
rye.
J
I
Thank
you
secretary
and
thank
you
committee
members
for
inviting
us
to
speak
today
a
little
bit
about
the
kentucky
office
of
energy
policy.
Our
mission
at
the
oep
is
like
is
what
we
call
ourselves
is.
We
support
the
utilization
of
all
of
kentucky's
resources
for
the
betterment
of
the
commonwealth,
while
protecting
and
improving
the
environment.
I
A
little
bit
of
flavor
for
for
what
we
do
just
so,
you
can
see
how
we
work
across
all
of
our
energy
resources.
Today,
we
are
here
to
talk
about
solar,
we'll
touch
on
our
solar
toolkit
and
our
solar
site
suitability
tool.
However,
many
of
you
know
we
are
a
long
partner
in
the
production
of
our
colfax
reports.
I
We
do
our
kentucky
energy
profile
and
every
other
year
we
support
the
southern
states
energy
board
with
their
regional
state
profiles
as
well
as
well,
where
we
handle
the
data
analysis
for
the
southern
states.
We
also
with
the
help
of
our
regulated
utility
partners.
Every
year
we
track
what
we
call
our
distributed:
energy
resources,
mainly
solar
resources
on
rooftops
and
some
smaller
ground-mounted
arrays.
However,
our
distributed
energy
resources
encompass
some
small
wind,
hydro
and
biomass
as
well.
I
I
We
do
remain
resource
neutral
and
provide
information
to
all
stakeholders,
ranging
from
citizens,
policy
makers,
solar
developers
and
anyone
else
who
may
who
may
have
questions
for
us
on
any
of
kentucky's
energy
resources.
So,
let's
get
into
large-scale
solar
in
kentucky
right
now.
The
large-scale
solar
that
we
see-
and
it's
barely
large
scale,
is
that
with
our
regulated
utilities,
overall,
renewable
generating
technologies
account
for
eight
percent
of
kentucky's
total
net
electricity
generation.
The
largest
share
of
that
comes
from
our
hydroelectric
resources,
which
some
of
those
date
back
to
1925
and
are
still
operating
today.
I
Currently,
you
will
hear
a
little
bit
more
from
the
public
service
commission.
We
have
28
merchant
solar
projects
pending
in
front
of
the
kentucky
electric
generation
transmission,
siding
board.
Those
28
projects
represent
a
little
over
3
000
megawatts.
So
recalling
back
the
last
slide,
our
total
capacity
in
kentucky
is
a
little
over
18
000
megawatts.
I
As
committee
members
are
well
aware.
In
kentucky,
we
have
over
12
million
acres
of
land
and
farm
use.
Our
total
land
area
is
somewhere
a
little
bit
over
25
million
acres
of
land
in
kentucky
total,
so
that
30
000
acres
right
now,
if
it
were
all
targeted
to
agricultural
land,
would
impact
around
0.23
percent
of
our
agricultural
land
and
to
put
that
30
000
acres
into
perspective,
a
little
bit
more,
we
can
look
at
what
other
pressures
are
putting
pressure
on
our
agricultural
land.
I
Many
of
you
are
familiar
with
the
crp
program
where
that
program:
incentivizes
farmers
to
enroll
their
land
in
the
crp
program,
take
it
out
of
agricultural
production
and
to
implement
conservation
practices
such
as
planting
native
grasses
or
species,
and
in
return
for
signing
up
in
the
crp
program.
Those
farmers
are
paid
a
a
rental
payment
for
those
acreage
acreages
that
they
place
in
conservation.
I
That's
a
little
bit
of
flavor
of
how
that
30,
000
acres
that
are
proposed
for
solar
development
compared
to
some
other
programs
that
that
look
to
our
agricultural
lands
as
well.
Inevitably-
and
I'm
sure
today,
I
may
get
that
question.
We
are
asked
to
look
into
the
future
for
a
variety
of
technologies
to
say
what
what
does
the
growth
look
like
in
kentucky?
I
I
If
we
look
at
those
cued
projects,
so
these
are
projects
that
may
not
be
in
front
of
the
public
server
or
the
citing
board
yet
because
they're
waiting
to
look
at
what
does
their
interconnection
look
like?
But
if
we
look
at
those
projects
sitting
in
the
wholesale
markets
that
are
located
here
in
kentucky,
that
number
can
maybe
estimate
a
potential
and
that's
around
12
000
megawatts.
I
If
you
take
out
those
that
have
been
withdrawn
or
are
no
longer
active,
if
those
were
to
look
to
our
agricultural
lands
and
no
other
option
to
look
at
our
brown
fields
or
reclaim
mine
lands
you're,
looking
at
a
potential
impact
of
0.9
of
our
over
12
million
acres
of
agricultural
lands,
that
number
also
tracks
well.
Another
way
that
we
look
at
future
scenarios
is
through
modeling
work
through
the
national
laboratories.
I
A
D
I
There
is
the
tax
credit
for
solar
development.
There
is,
to
my
knowledge,
not
not
a
production
tax
credit
like
there
had
been
on
the
wind
projects
so
right
now,
there's
just
a
commercial
tax
credit
at
the
federal
level
and
that
tax
credit
is
projected
to
increasingly
decline
over
time
unless
federal
federal
action
is
taken
to
to
modify
that
tax
credit.
That's
the
only
federal
incentive
that
I'm
aware
of
most
projects.
All
renewable
projects
also
have
modified
accelerated
depreciation
as
well,
and
we
can
provide
some
more
information
on
that.
I
That's
a
very
good
question,
so
construction
is
your
main
source
of
jobs
for
these
projects
long
term.
These
projects
are
not
known
to
have
long-term
job
impacts,
meaning
it
usually
takes
anywhere
from
three
to
six
people
to
maintain
and
operate
a
solar
array
long
time.
So
there
are
really
no,
in
my
opinion,
and
it's
just
kenya,
not
the
office
of
energy
policy.
But
what
we
see
from
labor
statistics
is
the
operation
and
maintenance
of
large
scale.
Solar
is
not
a
major
source
source
of
employment.
A
We
we
do
have
my
co-chairman,
senator
carpenter,
on
on
the
line
as
well.
Just
have
him
text
me
whether
he's
in
his
annex
office
or
in
his
district,
and
we
only
have
time
for
one
final
question
from
representative
bowlin
and
then
can
you
you're
going
to
have
five
minutes
to
complete
your
presentation.
Thank
you.
I
sure
can.
I
B
Thank
you
I'll,
be
brief.
Thank
you,
senator
wheeler
for
those
questions
being
from
coal
country
myself.
Definitely
sharing
those
concerns,
but
a
broader
concern
outside
of
those
is,
is
pricing.
Energy
pricing
in
kentucky
we're
very
lucky
to
have
a
very
good
utility
rates
both
for
homeowners,
our
constituents
and
also
our
utility-
are
you,
for
you
know.
B
Our
commercial
utility
rate
is
very
favorable
in
recruiting
businesses
to
the
state,
and
I
realized
that
you
know
as
we
make
this
transition
in
the
time
we're
in
right
now
as
we
go
towards
you
know,
as
there's
incentives
from
the
federal
level
to
go
more
towards
green
energy,
and
you
start
phasing
out
coal
natural
gas
wherever
they
choose
to
depo
whatever
direction
they
choose
to
point
us
in
what
does?
What
are
we
looking
at
for
our
pricing
for
our
people
and
just
for
the
recruitment
of
businesses?
Thank
you.
I
I
can
respond
to
that
and
secretary
gibbon
if
you'd
like
to
respond
as
well
on
the
utility
side,
any
large-scale
project
that
would
have
rate
payer
impact
would
be
addressed
through
the
psc
and
the
filing
there,
where
the
cost
to
the
consumer,
as
well
as
any
benefits
to
the
consumer,
would
be
evaluated
as
we
mentioned
earlier.
The
only
reason
we
are
seeing
solar
develop.
I
I
So
it's
not
just
about
price
as
we're
looking
at
solar
growth
in
the
state,
we're
also
balancing
its
impact
to
our
grid
impact
to
the
customers
and
any
potential
impacts
that
we
have
to
reliability
to
our
system
as
well,
and
that's
also
a
concern
that
is
addressed
in
the
wholesale
markets
and
to
chairman
gooch.
I
will
take
my
five
minutes
now
and
proceed
on
so
that
we
can
stay
on
schedule.
I
So
while
I
have
five
minutes
remaining,
I
would
just
like
to
point
out.
This
is
a
map
that,
where
we
modeled
the
solar,
what
we
call
site
potential
in
the
state,
the
dark,
dark
green
areas
mean
those
areas
have
land
characteristics
that
would
be
favorable
for
solar
and
the
orange
dots
or
the
siding
board
cases.
It's
no
surprise
that
the
orange
dots
also
land
on
those
dark
green
areas.
I
If
you
do
zoom
into
martin
county,
it
does
land
on
an
area
out
there
as
well.
So
this
also
can
be
useful
for
determining
if
your
county,
district
or
region
could
be
a
solar
site,
suitability
hotspot
for
lack
of
a
better
word
briefly,
solar
project
timelines.
It's
not
a
one
two
three
year
project
it
spans
over
a
six
year,
development
project
and
chairman
chandler-
can
touch
on
that
as
well
installation
options.
This
is
a
typical
installation
option
that
we
see
it's
either
grass
or
gravel
this.
Actually,
the
one
to
the
left
is
a
utility
project.
I
During
its
construction
phase,
secretary
goodman
mentioned,
we
do
have
other
options.
Louisville
gas
and
electric
ku
currently
has
an
agrovoltaic
dual
use
project
in
mercer
county.
Where
they're
looking
at
pollinators
and
committee
members
are
more
than
aware
that
pollinators
contribute,
I
believe
latest
statistics
show
they.
They
contribute
over
34
billion
dollars
to
the
nation's
economy
as
they're
supporting
our
food
production
systems.
I
So
this
is
a
great
project
in
mercer
county
as
well
as
you
can
see
the
bees
there
as
well.
We
have
a
utility
that
also
incorporates
bees
into
their
project
as
well.
The
cattle
there
on
the
right
is
not
a
kentucky
project.
However,
we
do
have
a
similar
one
at
morehead
state
university
in
their
beef
unit,
where
they
have
a
very
small
array
similar
to
this,
and
they
have
and
they're
looking
at
how
the
cattle
move
and
use
the
array
and
how
it
impacts
the
cattle
there
at
morehead
state
university.
I
We
do
have
a
solar
tool
kit,
we
couldn't
go
through
everything
today,
but
we
do
provide
decommissioning
resources
as
well
as
information
from
the
national
agricultural
law
center
and
other
resources,
as
it
relates
to
land
use
decisions
specific
to
farms.
In
our
state
secretary
goodman
mentioned,
we
are
trying
as
best
we
can
to
help
developers
look
for
reclaimed
mine
sites.
I
This
is
a
tool
where
we
can
model
the
state
and
look
for
our
reclaimed.
Mine
lands
that
could
be
suitable
for
solar
projects,
therefore
putting
less
pressure
on
our
agricultural
lands.
And
finally,
many
of
you
are
familiar.
The
national
conference
of
state
legislators
has
a
very
useful
solar
policy
toolkit
and
I
would
point
you
to
their
panel
recycling
and
decommissioning
resources
where
they
do
list
state
actions
as
it
relates
to
recycling
and
decommissioning.
The
latest
has
been
in
the
news
as
north
carolina's
concerted
effort
to
do
more
with
decommissioning.
I
I
The
university
of
kentucky
and
partnership
with
lexmark
are
exploring
critical
material
recovery
from
electronics
and
that
partnership
is
evolving.
Now
to
include
the
critical
material
recovery
from
solar
panels
as
well,
so
I
can
provide
that
resource
to
the
committee
members
after
the
presentation
today,
but
that
is
a
local
commercialization
technology.
That's
looking
to
address
panel
recycling
and
decommissioning
in
the
state
and
chairman.
That
is
all
we
have
today,
for
you
we'll
be
happy
to
follow
up
with
any
questions
or
resources
that
you
may
have.
A
Okay,
thank
you,
and
would
I
just
ask
any
members
to
direct
any
questions
they
have
to
to
the
cabinet
moving
around
along
next,
we
have
senator.
I
mean
we
have
kent
kent
chandler,
who's,
chairman
of
the
public
service
commission,
to
talk
about
merchant,
solar,
siding
and
electric
generation
and
transmission
siding
boards.
Welcome
ken.
H
H
H
I'm
gonna
dedicate
only
a
portion
of
my
a
lot
of
time
to
the
presentation.
I
don't
want
to
hold
things
up,
so
I'm
going
to
talk
fast.
Last
night,
I
decided
to
write
everything
down
so
that,
instead
of
hemming
and
hauling
up
here
about
my
arms
I'll
get
straight
to
the
point
as
fast
as
I
can
I'm
happy
to
answer
any
questions
during
after
the
presentation
following
the
ijc
or
any
other
time.
Please
just
let
me
know.
H
H
H
A
couple
of
important
items
for
today's
presentation,
I'll
be
talking
about
solar
electricity
generation
generation
capacity,
as
ms
stump
was
discussing,
is
discussed
in
terms
of
megawatts
presented
by
mw.
To
put
that
into
ordinary
terms.
The
production
capacity
of
one
megawatt
can
power
about
700
ordinary
homes.
H
H
I
also
briefly
touch
on
irbs
or
industrial
revenue
bonds,
and
in
this
context,
these
irbs
ordinarily
have
pilot
or
payment
in
lieu
of
tax
agreements
by
merely
stating
what
pilot
stands
for
I've
exhausted
my
knowledge
of
irbs,
I'm
sure
many
of
you
know
more
about
it,
and
there
are
certainly
people
that
are
more
educated
than
me.
Nevertheless,
they
do
touch
on
this
subject:
decommissioning
most,
if
not
all,
of
the
solar
leases
that
I've
seen
have
some
sort
of
requirement
that
the
solar
developer
will
decommission
the
facility
after
its
useful
life.
H
There
are
different
requirements
in
each
lease,
but
when
I
mention
decommissioning
I
mean
the
complete
removal
of
the
facilities,
even
facilities
buried
underground,
except
for
major
earth
moving
and
roads
that
were
created
through
the
operation
of
the
project.
Finally,
the
sighting
board,
referring
to
it
as
a
single
board,
is
a
misnomer.
H
H
A
citing
board
review
looks
at
the
impact
of
the
proposed
facility,
including
noise
and
visual
implications,
the
economic
impact
and
the
impact
on
property
values.
As
I
mentioned
earlier,
this
is
not
a
single
board
when
a
project
is
proposed,
the
counties
or
county
it
is
going
to
be
located
in
dictate.
Some
of
the
members
for
the
citing
board
for
that
project.
H
When
the
governor
appoints
a
local
member,
then
the
governor
appoints
one
local
member
and
another
local
member
is
added,
depending
on
the
specific
circumstances.
If
there
is
no
planning
and
zoning
in
a
county
and
the
facility
is
proposed
to
be
located
in
the
county
and
not
within
a
city,
it's
the
judge
executive.
That
is
the
seventh
member.
If
it's
located
to
be
in
a
city,
it's
the
mayor
of
the
city
and
if
it's
located
in
a
county
and
the
county
has
planning
and
zoning
it's
the
chair
of
the
planning
and
zoning
commission.
H
If
it's
located
in
two
or
more
counties,
the
judge
executives
themselves
choose
amongst
each
other
and
indicate
to
the
citing
board,
who
will
participate
within
30
days
of
the
filing
of
the
application.
If
the
judges
can't
come
up
with
a
decision
in
time
or
people
are
fighting
over
it
or
if
they
get
forget
about
it,
the
law
defaults
that
the
governor
will
appoint.
One
of
those
judge
executives.
H
Here
are-
and
I
think
these
are
consistent
with
ms
stumps
slides-
are
some
of
the
projects
that
have
already
filed
applications
or
have
filed
notices
that
they
will
file
applications
within
six
months.
There
are
28
projects
on
this
map,
ranging,
I
believe,
from
40
megawatts
to
250
megawatts
in
size.
This
map
is
as
of
the
end
of
august.
H
H
Before
an
application
is
ever
filed
with
the
sighting
board.
The
applicant
must
take
a
number
of
steps,
including
conducting
a
local
public
meeting
and
other
public
outreach
and
education
filing
a
notice
with
the
citing
board
that
includes
information
about
the
project
found
and
filing
a
public
notice
to
the
general
public
in
a
newspaper
and
sending
direct
mail
to
bordering
landowners,
informing
them
all
about
the
location
and
general
description
of
the
project.
H
After
the
application
is
filed,
the
two
ad
hoc
members
become
part
of
the
citing
board.
An
application
fee
is
paid
and
the
application
is
processed
under
a
set
procedural
schedule
I
put
on
here
what
the
ordinary
procedure
is
just
to
go
through
it,
the
sighting
board
and
the
sighting
board
staff
set
deadlines
for
motions
to
intervene,
the
sighting
board
and
its
staff
conduct
at
least
two
rounds
of
discovery
on
the
application.
H
The
citing
board
in
each
one
of
these
cases
employs
its
own
individual
consultant,
the
cost
of
which
is
paid
for
by
the
applicant
that
consultant
files.
A
report
into
the
record.
The
applicant
has
an
opportunity
to
respond
to
the
report
and
of
the
eight
cases
we've
educated
today
to
date.
Six
of
those
have
had
hearings.
H
An
application
to
the
citing
board
has
to
address
using
a
site
assessment
report,
the
location
and
impact
of
the
project,
including
the
impact
on
roads,
other
properties
and
neighbors,
as
well
as
the
economic
impact.
There
are
other
items
that
must
be
included
in
the
site
assessment
report,
but,
as
you
all
can
tell
from
these
last
two
slides,
there's
a
lot
so
I'll.
H
Not
only
will
they
receive
payments
for
those,
but
they'll
also
receive
the
county
will
receive
payment
in
lieu
of
taxes.
There
has
been
as
part
of
some
of
those
mock
or
draft
pilot
agreements
and
inclusion
there
for
an
increase
or
a
specific
amount
of
school
taxes
to
be
paid
over
a
certain
amount
of
time
and
the
impact
on
property
taxes.
As
I
understand
it
is
effectively
when
land
that
was
previously
receiving
the
ag
tax
credit
or
the
the
ag
exemption.
H
We've
also
dealt
with
noise.
We've
entered
in
we've,
we've
required
mitigation
requirement.
We've
had
mitigation
requirements
regarding
noise
abatement,
including
a
requirement
that,
if
they're,
if
they're
tamping
the
metal
poles
that
the
solar
facilities
are
located
on
within
a
certain
distance
of
homes,
that
they
either
they
do
something.
We've
we've
provided
a
little
bit
of
flexibility,
but
they
do
something
to
minimize
the
impact
of
that
construction.
Noise
on
local
homes.
H
H
Some
of
the
other
applicants
actually
throughout
the
process
have
actually
agreed
to
move
some
of
their
solar
panels
to
mitigate
some
view,
shed
issues.
One
of
the
issues
we
found.
We,
we
went
from
zero
to
a
hundred
well
or
zero
to
twenty
eight
on
these
projects.
The
public
public
service
commission
did,
I
would
say
these
are
some
of
the
more
complicated
cases
we
deal
with
and
over
the
last
year
and
a
half.
H
H
We've
also
in
some
of
the
the
recent
orders,
we
think
that
we've
gotten
pretty
consistent
a
couple
across
the
the
major
mitigation
best
practices,
we've
gotten
pretty
consistent
across
our
noise
mitigation,
our
decommissioning
requirements,
our
setbacks
and
the
view
shed
mitigation.
I
think
that
a
person
applying
today
could
look
at
those
past
cases
and
pretty
much
know
what
is
expected
of
the
of
the
applicant
henderson
and
madison
county
both
have
fairly
good
practices
in
place.
H
I
believe
this
is
going
from
memory
that
henderson
has
an
ordinance
in
place.
That's
that
I
thought
was
actually
very
helpful
and
madison
county
has
a
pretty
stringent
conditional
use
permit.
I
know
that
judge,
schneider
and
judge
taylor
would
be
happy
to
share
that
with
with
anybody
who's
interested.
H
That
chairman
is
all
the
formal
presentation
I
have,
but
if,
if
you
don't
mind,
I
do
have
one
thing
I
didn't
have
a
slide
on
and
I'm
speaking
only
for
myself
on
this,
I
think
that
there
are
two
significant
changes
to
the
statutes
that
I
believe
the
legislature
can
make.
That
would
help
things.
The
first
has
two
parts:
one
would
be
a
requirement
as
part
of
the
application
to
pro
that
the
applicant
provide
an
explicit
decommissioning
plan
up
front.
H
H
The
consultant,
the
board
employees
in
each
case
would
have
an
opportunity
to
review
and
respond
to
the
plan
related
to
this
would
be
in
addition
to
the
statute
that
basically
says
the
legislature
thinks
that
the
citing
board,
when
deemed
necessary
and
advisable,
should
require
a
decommissioning
bond
filed
in
the
county's
name
to
carry
out
the
decommissioning
plan.
In
the
event,
the
project
owner
doesn't
decommission
it
itself.
The
second
item
and
change
I
would
offer
offer
as
I
believe,
a
good
change
is
an
expansion
of
the
current
requirement
regarding
transfers.
H
The
current
statute
just
requires
the
person
with
an
approved
citing
certificate
to
get
citing
board
approval
if
they
transfer
rights
and
obligations
under
the
certificate.
However,
the
project
applicants
who
seek
the
certificates
for
these
projects
are
llc's.
Arguably,
these
llc's
could
be
bought
and
sold
dozens
of
times
without
requiring
citing
board
approval.
H
A
small
change
that
looks
like
the
requirements
that
utilities
have
were
psc
approval
for
any
change
of
control
whatsoever
is
necessary,
would
ensure
that
the
people
who
ultimately
own
and
operate
these
facilities
do
so
in
the
public
interest
and
for
the
benefit
of
the
communities
they're
located
and
to
ensure
that
they
are
good
stewards
of
the
environment.
I'm
happy
to
work
with
anyone
or
provide
any
proposed
text
that
anybody
would
like.
Thank
you
very
much
chairman.
A
Thank
you,
commissioner.
Let
me
just
say
that
that
was
some
really
good
information.
It
was
very
factual,
was
presented
in
a
way
that
I
think
it's
easy
for
the
committee
to
understand
it,
and
I
appreciate
it
because
I
think
we
we
definitely
needed
that.
I
had
one
question
to
you:
really.
It
seems
that
the
own
in
a
merchant
plan,
as
far
as
merchant
solar,
the
only
time
the
public
service
commission
is
really
involved,
seems
to
be
in
the
citing
process.
A
H
That
that
these
are
either
participating
via
a
bilateral
contract
with
somebody
where
somebody
has
agreed
to
pay
them
a
specific
amount
to
be
an
off-taker
or
those
merchant
facilities
are
participating
in
the
major
markets
like
miso
and
pjm,
where,
if
they
make
money,
they
make
money
and
if
they
don't,
they
they're
putting
they're
putting
their
equity
on
the
line
in
order
to
dissipate
in
a
competitive
market.
Okay,.
A
You
know
people
that
you
that
you
regulate
and
someone
needs
to
be
in
charge,
and
I
think
the
public
service
commission
does
a
good
job
of
that.
Someone
needs
to
be
in
charge
of
making
sure
that
the
decisions
are
being
made,
aren't
adversely
affecting
our
ratepayers
here
in
kentucky
and
don't
necessarily
want
you
to
comment
on
the
day.
But
I
do
want
you
to
come
back
and-
and
let
us
have
that
conversation
in
the
future
yeah.
H
And
just
if
you
could
chairman
and
and
not
so
much
on
rates,
but
certainly
on
reliability,
exactly
a
lot
of
states-
and
I
say
a
lot
probably
about
a
dozen-
maybe
18
states
in
the
united
states
have
turned
over
what's
deemed
resource
adequacy
to
these
people
who
run
the
markets
right.
So
the
district
of
columbia
maryland
the
people
who
ensure
they
have
resource
adequacy
is
pjm.
H
We
have
not
turned
over
any
of
our
utilities
to
a
market
operator
to
determine
resource
adequacy.
The
public
service
commission
ensures
that
each
one
of
our
utilities
that
we
regulate
have
adequate
research
resources
to
ensure
reliability.
They
may
also
participate
in
a
market
but
they're
participating
in
the
market
in
order
to
make
money
for
the
benefit
of
their
customers,
not
necessarily
to
ensure
the
lights
stay
on.
That's
still
firmly
under
our
jurisdiction.
A
F
So
I
assume
from
what
you
said
that
the
sighting
board
and
public
service
commission
are
concerned
that
the
business
structure
of
most
of
the
solar
out
there
is
that
it
is
with
an
llc
and
the
one
that
is
getting
the
permit
is
not
the
one
that's
actually
generating
the
electricity
that
it's
going
to
file
through
two
or
three
hands.
First.
Is
that
what
I'm
hearing.
H
F
H
Yeah,
so
up
to
date,
six
of
the
orders,
the
mitigation
measures
that
have
included
by
the
siding
boards
have
required
bonding,
in
addition
to
the
it
being
in
the
name
of
the
folks
who
own
the
land,
also
in
the
county's
name
and
in
doing
so,
we've
required
that
they
review
that
every
five
years
that
that
the
person
who
reviews
it
is
a
competent
engineer
that
has
you
know,
experience
in
in
this
exact
they're
people.
That
apparently
do
this,
that
this
is
what
they
do.
H
They
determine
what
the
cost
of
decommissioning
are
and
that
they
not
only
notify
the
citing
board
that
they
reviewed
it
and
what
the
new
cost
they
believe
and
the
new
cost
of
decommissioning,
and
thus
the
new
cost
of
the
bond
or
the
amount
of
the
bond
will
be.
They
also
have
to
provide
notice
to
the
fiscal
court,
and
we
thought
that
that
was
important,
especially
since
they're
going
to
be
including
the
county's
name,
because
fiscal
courts
are
going
to
change
over
20
years.
H
I
doubt
that
the
county,
attorneys
or
any
member
of
the
fiscal
court
will
be
there
when
these
things
are
decommissioned.
I
think
it's
good
to
just
give
them
a
recurring
notice
that
not
only
will
you
all
have
the
opportunity
to
pull
from
this,
if
you
need
it,
but
it's
being
updated
and
it's
being
looked
at
and
here's
the
new
obligations.
A
K
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
you
answered
my
key
question
on
industrial
bonds.
I'd
heard
this
was
happening,
but
I
wasn't
sure
so
it
it
appears
that
kentucky's
about
to
be
heavily
invested
in
the
renewable
energy
sector
with
these
industrial
bonds,
so
the
taxpayer
of
taxpayers
of
kentucky
are
backing
these
industrial
bonds,
whether
they're
state
county,
local
bonds.
H
Yeah,
so
I
I
I
don't
mean
to
be
flipping.
I
really
wasn't
joking
when
I
said
I
don't
know
anything
other
than
what
I
said
about
irbs
and
I'm
I'm
sorry,
I'm
going
back
through
we've
had
maybe
12
or
14
hearings
at
this
point
on
these
projects.
I
think
that
I'm
and
I
don't
even
I
think
that
maybe
martin
county
may
be
the
only
one
that
I'm
aware
of
that
has
actually
even
signed
the
irbs.
I've
had
judges.
Tell
me
you
know
they
say
they
want
an
rb,
but
we're
not
going
to.
H
B
H
H
I
don't
know
okay,
I
know
I
know
how
they've
been
brought
up
in
the
context
of
these
cases,
but
it's
really
not
squarely
in
the
middle
of
of
what
the
statute
you
know
requires
us
to
look
into,
and
it's
kind
of
mentioned
offhand,
but
I
thought
it
would
be
important
for
the
folks
here
to
to
hear
it.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
A
C
Fine,
can
you
hear
me
okay?
Yes,
we
can
go
ahead,
wonderful,
it
it's
a
pleasure
to
be
here.
I
appreciate
you
allowing
us
to
do
this
remotely.
I
am
in
my
my
home
in
louisville.
I
there's
two
documents
that
I
sent
to
staff
that
should
be
in
your
all's
folders
and
I'm
not
going
to
read
them,
and
I
just
want
to
let
you
know
what
they
are.
One
of
them
is
a
paper
that
we
did
on
the
relationship
of
local
zoning
and
planning
with
the
state
siting
board.
C
The
chairman
chandler
did
an
excellent
job
in
describing
the
sighting
board
process
and,
looking
back
I,
I
was
privileged
to
be
part
of
the
the
drafting
of
that
statute.
Back
then,
of
course,
it
wasn't
solar
facilities,
it
was
enron
and
some
other
companies
that
were
coming
into
kentucky
looking
to
cite
mostly
natural
gas
peaking
plants,
because
the
deregulation
of
energy
in
some
other
states-
and
they
were
similarly
going
to
construct
facilities
and
then
wheel-
that
power
to
other
places,
mostly
in
solar's
case
states
that
have
solar
or
renewable
mandates.
C
They
need
to
understand
the
scope
of
the
plans,
the
the
you
know,
the
who
the
company
is,
who
their
principles
are,
there's
any
number
of
things,
but
the
public
should
never
be
an
afterthought
and
they
have
been
in
a
couple
of
cases
and
people
are
justifiably
pretty
upset
about
it.
The
other
thing
we
tried
to
do
at
the
council.
C
So
we
did
a
model
ordinance
and
a
copy
that
ordinance
is,
is
in
your
your
files
and
I'm
just
going
to
hit
really
quickly
the
the
high
points
of
both
of
the
the
papers
and
and
the
issues
for
consideration.
Regarding
the
intersection
of
zoning
and
the
sighting
boards.
The
first
issue
which
chairman
chandler
talked
about
was
setbacks.
We
think
it's
important
that
local
communities
have
a
voice
through
their
zoning
and
planning
in
determining
what
setbacks
from
property
lines
and
what
setbacks
from
different
types
of
land
uses
are
appropriate.
C
The
second
issue
is
the
sighting
board
only
covers
10
megawatt
projects
and
above
and
when
you're,
typically
looking
at
5
to
10
acres
being
utilized
per
megawatt
for
a
solar,
a
ground-mounted
solar
array,
you
can
chew
up
a
lot
of
land
before
you
reach
that
10
megawatt
level.
So
we
think
it's
important
that
that
issues
of
that
are
important
to
the
local
community,
whether
you're
going
to
allow
development
on
prime
or
productive
farmland.
C
What
sort
of
restraints
you're
going
to
put
on
on
that?
We
think
it's
important
from
that.
You
know
one
megawatt
up
to
the
9.9
megawatt
that
you
have
local
participation
through
the
zoning
process
and
you
have
a
process
that
both
informs
the
community
and
informs
the
developer.
These
are
the
rules
of
the
road.
C
But,
as
you
know,
you
can
do
a
lot
of
damage
to
a
piece
of
property
before
you
ever
start
actually
constructing,
and
so
we
suggested
that
local
communities
may
want
to
consider
that
before
you
break
ground,
you
have
to
have
your
zoning
change.
You
have
to
have
a
plan
for
sedimentation
for
erosion
control,
for
your
roads,
for
all
of
the
different
physical
aspects
of
citing
a
utility
scale
array.
The
fourth
is
public
notice.
C
There
is,
if
we're
looking
at
tweaks
for
the
signing
board
statute,
and
I
agree
with
every
one
of
the
ones
that
chairman
chandler
recommended.
I
think
those
are
good,
positive
tweaks
and
I
think
that
a
statute
after
20
years
is
probably
in
need
of
some
updating.
One
of
the
issues
is
we
we
put
into
the
sighting
board
statute
that
you
have
to
provide
a
public
hearing
when
you
are
thinking
about
leasing
or
buying
property,
if
you're
a
developer.
C
The
problem
is
that
is
on
demand.
So
if
you
don't
have
to
have
a
meeting
that
early
in
the
process,
unless
it's
requested
by
a
local
government
official
well,
the
problem
is
local
government
officials
not
going
to
necessarily
know
that
you're
out
there
trying
to
get
a
lease
from
property,
and
so
there
may
be
some
well
we've
suggested
as
local
communities
adopt
either
a
freestanding
ordinance
or,
as
part
of
their
zoning
ordinance
that
you
will
hold
that
hearing.
C
That's
required
under
the
sighting
board
statute
at
the
time
that
you
begin
to
look
at
acquiring
property
and
you
will
provide
notice
to
the
local
fiscal
court
when
you
come
into
the
community
and
and
intend
to
engage
in
that
activity.
That
way,
you
can
make
sure
that
early
in
the
process,
there's
public
airing
of
what
the
plans
are
and
the
ability
to
get
some
public
feedback,
as
well
as
local
government
feedback.
C
The
last
couple
of
points
I
want
to
make
regarding
the
model
ordinance,
one
of
the
things
we
did
in
the
ordinance
was
to
say
you
know
this
is
this
is
intended
to
be
a
template
that
will
be
adjusted
by
each
community
and
each
community
needs
that
flexibility
to
be
able
to
tailor
any
zoning
ordinance
to
meet
their
needs
right.
One
size
fits
all,
just
simply
does
not
work.
It's
not
appropriate.
That's
one
of
the
reasons.
C
A
lot
of
communities
historically
didn't
favor,
adopting
zoning
and
planning
is
because
it
simply
was
not
appropriate
to
the
community's
needs
to
their,
and
so
one
of
the
issues
for
local
communities
is.
Do
you
have
the
planning
commission
do
a
review,
or
do
you
have
the
board
of
adjustment?
Do
you
have
a
conditional
use
permit,
which
is
an
overlay
on
existing
zoning,
or
do
you
actually
do
re-zoning
and
we
we
suggested
a
conditional
use
permit
process,
but
we
made
clear
in
the
model
ordinance
that
it's
again
it's
the
community's
decision.
C
The
question
of
what
types
of
solar
arrays
are
appropriate
in
what
zones
is
a
second
threshold
issue
for
local
communities.
As
we
mentioned,
setbacks
are
a
third,
the
sort
of
screening
or
a
visual
buffer
that
you're
going
to
create
between
certain
types
of
land
uses
and
solar
rays
is
another
issue.
How
you
address
farmland,
protection
and
farmland.
Preservation
is
again
a
community
level
decision
and
we
provided
some
resources
there.
C
The
national
farmland
trust
has
looked
at
trying
to
minimize
the
conflict
between
agricultural
uses
and
solar
rays,
while
also
respecting
the
the
rights
of
the
individual
landowners
to
determine
what
they
are
going
to
do
with
their
own
property.
Final
issue
is,
is
one
that
I
think
that
chairman
hornback
has
mentioned
one
that
chairman
chandler
mentioned.
C
So
we
believe
that
having
a
bond
or
a
surety
of
some
kind,
that
is
sufficient
to
assure
that
if
the
party
defaults,
that,
though,
that
the
a
third
party
can
be
hired
to
come
in
and
do
the
the
decommissioning
is
essential,
we
recommended
a
seven-year
review.
A
five-year
review,
as
chairman
hornback
mentioned,
would
be
a
a
good
point
as
well.
C
We
looked
at
other
states,
including
north
carolina,
what
they
were
requiring,
but
a
periodic
review
and
a
periodic
updating
is
essential,
and
we
we
suggested
that
as
part
of
the
zoning
ordinance
we're
glad
to
see
that
the
different
sighting
boards
have
been
recommended
that,
as
a
matter
of
of
course,
and
we
think
that
a
statutory
change
to
make
that
an
explicit
requirement
and
to
set
up
the
terms
and
conditions
for
periodic
review.
It's
a
very
good
idea.
A
G
So
I
think
that's
the
analogy
in
this
whole
coal
miner's
head
was:
is
a
the
two
acre
permanent
loophole.
We
do
not
need
that
in
this
expansion
of
our
energy
portfolio,
so
I'd
be
willing
to
help
work
on
that.
I'm
interested
in
that
and
and
farmland
protection
agriculture
use
is,
is
naturally
very
important
as
well
so,
but
I
appreciate
these
concerns
and
I
think
the
committee
needs
to
take
these
to
heart.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
A
L
L
L
The
bottom
line
for
us
is
that
county
level
decision
making
continues
to
be
a
critical
component
of
this
issue,
because
what
works
best
for
say,
perry
county
may
not
work
best
for
graves
county
and
that
needs
to
be
a
local
decision.
That's
been
made,
and
everything
else
has
already
been
said
in
my
remarks.
I'll
leave
it
at
that
and
try
to
answer
any
questions.
Chairman.
M
Sure,
thank
you
very
much.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
Thanks
for
inviting
me
my
name
is
allison
davis.
I
am
the
hb
price,
professor
of
agricultural
economics,
at
the
university
of
kentucky
and
the
executive
director
of
sedec,
which
is
a
center
dedicated
to
community
and
economic
development
for
the
commonwealth.
M
So
my
background
is
economic
and
community
development,
not
production
agriculture,
but
over
the
last
15
years
I
have
been
working
in
economic
development.
In
fact
I
left
this
meeting
because
we're
doing
our
our
training
for
our
new
economic
developers
across
the
state,
so
I
have
facilitated
countless
land
use
discussions
that
revolve
around.
You
know
the
optimal
use
of
a
mix
of
residential
commercial
ag
and
industrial
development.
M
So
the
discussion
around
utility
scale,
solar
farming
emerged
in
my
office.
I
guess
a
couple
years
ago
I
received
several
requests
for
technical
assistance
around
helping
to
facilitate
local
conversations,
and
you
know
I
am
only
one
of
me.
So
it's
hard
to
do
that,
so
instead
I
decided
to
pull
together
a
document
that
highlights
some
of
the
community
considerations
around
utility
skill
farming,
solar
farming,
and
so
I
heard
a
little
bit
of
the
previous
testimony.
M
M
M
M
I
have
been
asked
to
review
countless
contracts
and-
and
I
obviously
will
not
do
so
so
I
just
wanted
to
mention
a
few
of
the
considerations
I
think
are
important
and
the
first
one,
which
is
the
one
I
get
called
in
the
most
for,
is
the
importance
of
prioritizing
lands
of
marginal
use
for
utility
scale,
solar
farming
to
limit
impacts
to
food
production.
I
think
through
covid,
through
the
expansion
population.
M
This
is
a
continuous
conversation
about
ensuring
we
are
have
food
to
feed
our
people
and
that
land
that
is
on
excellent
soil
is
also
the
most
valuable
to
our
developers
and,
as
a
result,
that's
an
oftentimes
where
they
go
to
first,
because
it's
the
least
expensive
for
construction,
because
it's
flat
and
it's
often
slopes
the
south-
doesn't
have
a
lot
of
trees.
Doesn't
have
a
lot
of
obstacles,
so
it's
great
location,
and
you
know
we
believe
I'm
certainly.
I
represent
the
college
of
agriculture.
M
M
M
Most
importantly
talking
about
the
decommissioning
of
the
land.
I
know
we've
spent
a
lot
of
time
talking
about
that.
That
has
been
the
number
one
issue
that
I
have
seen
when
I've
looked
at
places
across
the
country
is
that
that
was
not
carefully
stipulated
and
that
the
landowner
would
likely
have
had
to
deal
with
that
burden
or
the
community
have
to
deal
with
that
burden,
and
I
think
it
seems
like
there's
very
we're
much
more
diligent
here
to
ensure
that
those
contracts
will
preserve
preserve
the
land.
M
Who
is
signing
a
contract,
the
age
of
60,
who
will
be
85
at
that
age?
Who
may
or
may
not
still
be
around
to
decide
how
that
land
is
going
to
be
used?
And
so
we
are
pushing
very
much
that
if
a
landowner
decides
to
go
push
for
a
contract
that
there
is
a
clear
succession
plan
in
place
when
they
do
that.
M
M
It
requires
a
lot
of
community
input
and
engagement
and
understanding
and
transparency
and
having
the
the
time
to
think
about
this
proactively,
as
opposed
to
what
we
have
seen
is
sort
of
like
the
swiss
cheesing
of
thinking
about
these
developments
has
real
long-term
consequences,
and
so
just
like,
and
I
I
think
the
woman
from
caico
is
saying
there
are
57
places
that
have
to
do
comprehensive
land
use
planning.
This
has
to
be
part
of
this,
and
so
I
know
in
clark
county.
M
M
You
know
both
the
positive
and
the
negative
consequences
has
been
critical,
so
I
don't
want
to
be
duplicative
of
what
others
have
said,
but
I
thought
it
would
be
useful
to
just
kind
of
highlight
some
of
the
findings
from
that
report.
That
again,
are
just
a
culmination
of
what
others
have
found
across
the
country
and
I'm
happy
to
answer
any
questions
you
might
have.
F
M
We
all
want
to
have
new
economic
opportunities
and
we
all
want
to
preserve
the
aesthetics
of
our
place.
There's
nothing
like
kentucky.
So
there
is
a
real
tension
and
you
know,
as
an
economist,
I
believe
that
there
is
some
type
of
market
for
preserving
those
lands
that
are
most
valuable,
while
also
providing
new
economic
opportunities,
so
that
we
can
continue
to
thrive
here.
So
you
know,
we've
talked
about
something
like
a
pdr
program,
the
pace
program,
something
that
you
know
has
provides
opportunity
if
those
lands
get
converted
into
other
uses.
M
I
think
is
certainly
worth
the
time
now
I
mean
this.
Is
we
get
I
get
asked
on
a
regular
basis?
I
just
can't
do
it
now
to
to
be
able
to
provide
to
these
small
communities
the
economic
impact
of
the
agricultural
sector.
I've
been
asked
by
probably
15
to
20
recently,
so
they
can
make
the
case
that
agriculture
contributes
to
their
local
economy
in
a
similar
way
as
manufacturing
or
healthcare
or
the
service
sector.
So
you
know
something
that
we
can
continue
to.
F
Well,
thank
you,
dr
davis
appreciate
you
being
with
us
today
and,
if
you're
looking
at
something
to
compare
that
to,
if
you
look
at
the
economic
impact
of
agriculture,
look
at
south
central
kentucky
and
what
happened
when
the
green
roof
or
reservoir
came
in
there,
and
they
did
that
large
crp
program
and
how
towns
closed
down
after
agriculture
was
pretty
much
gone
production
agriculture.
So
thank
you
for
being
with
us
today.
F
N
N
Great,
thank
you,
as
I
was
saying,
my
name
is:
will
mayer
I'm
the
executive
director
of
clark
coalition,
a
land
use,
advocacy
organization,
promoting
smart
growth,
sustainable
economic
development
and
government
transparency
in
winchester
clark
county?
We
formed
in
may
of
2020
to
address
the
industrial
solar
issue,
and
since
that
time
we
have
brought
to
bear
a
great
deal
of
research,
including
dr
davis's,
and
that
of
other
subject
matter.
N
Experts
from
land
use,
attorneys
and
property
appraisers
to
provide
greater
insight
into
this
very
complex
issue
of
industrial-scale
solar
I'll
go
through
this
quickly
as
it's
covered
before,
but
I
think
it's
very
important
to
understand
the
scope
of
what's
being
proposed
in
our
state.
Ms
stumpf
earlier
alluded
to
the
projects
before
the
sighting
board,
but
I'd
like
to
inform
you
of
the
projects
that
are
in
the
queues
for
interconnection
in
pjm
and
miso.
So
right
now
those
total
over
a
hundred
proposed
industrial
scale
projects
in
kentucky
totaling
about
11
000
megawatts
for
comparison.
N
That's
nearly
three
times
larger
than
the
installed
solar
capacity
in
the
state
of
nevada.
This
is
going
on
or
it's
proposed
in
47
counties
in
kentucky.
So
over
a
third
of
our
counties
have
these
projects
proposed
and
to
put
into
perspective
the
number
of
panels
we're
talking
about.
This
is
anywhere
from
25
to
60
million
plus
solar
panels.
This
is
based
on
data.
N
That's
been
submitted
to
the
kentucky
state
siting
board,
so
it's
a
very
significant
issue
in
terms
of
decommissioning
and
recycling,
and
it's
one
that
we
need
to
be
addressing
now,
which
previous
speakers
have
spoken
to,
but
I'd
like
to
continue
to
provide
insight
into
that.
The
image
on
this
slide
is
from
the
pjm
website.
It's
where
you
can
go
to
look
up
different
projects,
and
I
would
encourage
everyone
here
after
we
leave
to
look
up
your
county
and
to
see
what's
being
proposed
there
or
see
what's
being
proposed
in
neighboring
counties.
N
I
think
there's
a
significant
lack
of
understanding
of
the
issues
surrounding
industrial
scale,
solar
development.
These
include
everything
from
citing
to
leases
to
financing
industrial
revenue.
Bonding
was
touched
on
earlier,
and
I
can
speak
a
little
bit
more
to
that,
as
well
as
pilot
payments
facility
ownership.
Mr
chandler
touched
on
the
developers.
N
I
think
in
his
initial
comment
mentioned,
that
developers
would
be
responsible
for
decommissioning,
but
in
fact
it's
really
the
eventual
owners
of
the
projects
who
will
be
responsible
and
that,
as
you
are
aware,
could
change
hands
several
times
the
result
of
our
current
status
and
coupled
with
a
very
generous
federal
tax
credit,
which
is
now
at
26
percent.
To
comment
on
mrs
stump's
earlier
comment
on
that
it
was
initiated
in
2006
and
it's
been
extended
three
times
most
recently
in
december
of
2020.
N
So
while
it
is
slated
technically
to
to
devolve
after
a
couple
years,
the
federal
government
has
not
shown
a
proclivity
to
do
that.
So
the
result
of
this
situation,
of
the
lack
of
understanding
of
the
issues
and
this
federal
tax
policy
and
framework
is
that
it
incentivizes,
frankly
very
aggressive
commercial,
solar
developers
to
come
to
our
local
municipalities
and
change
our
laws
and
ordinances
to
permit
their
developments.
In
fact,
this
is
how
most
solar
ordinances
are
now
being
developed
in
our
state.
They
are
written
by
solar
developers.
N
N
We
need
a
thorough
investigation
of
this
issue
of
these
issues
in
order
to
balance
the
short
and
long-term
impacts,
just
a
couple
briefly
of
the
issues
that
are
to
be
considered:
environmental,
everything
from
water,
runoff
erosion,
contamination,
the
inclusion
of
toxic
heavy
metals
in
the
panels,
I'll
touch
briefly
on
reclamation.
A
2017
study
by
north
carolina
state
university
articulated
the
cost
of
reclamation,
which
is
separate
from
decommissioning,
but
it
estimated
that
cost
to
be
seventeen
hundred
and
eighty
dollars
per
acre.
N
So
this
is
a
very
significant
cost
that
is
currently
not
being
accounted
for
by
the
developers,
but
we
need
to
be
thinking
about
as
a
state.
The
economic
impacts
vary
tremendously
by
location,
as
you
heard
earlier,
these
solar
projects
typically
do
not
result
in
many
long-term
permanent
jobs.
However,
compared
to
agriculture,
particularly
on
prime
soils,
that
accounts
for
significant
employment,
in
our
case
in
clark
county,
nearly
one
in
ten
jobs
in
our
county
are
directly
attributable
to
the
agricultural
sector.
N
That
sector
represents
a
197
million
dollar
annual
economic
impact
to
our
community,
so
weighing
the
trade-offs
of
solar
development
and
agriculture
are
extremely
important
to
make
sure
that
kentuckians
aren't
on
the
losing
end.
The
fiscal
considerations
there's
a
lot
of
talk
about
tax
revenue
and
pilot
payments,
but
this
is
not
very
well
understood.
N
This
is
evidenced
in
solar
facilities
around
the
country.
There
are,
over
nine
cases,
case
studies
where
this
has
been
identified,
and
I
would
point
out
that
these
same
independent
studies
are
conducted
by
some
of
the
appraisers
who've,
been
retained
by
the
kentucky
state,
siting
board
so
lot
to
think
about
there
and
then
quality
of
life.
The
importance
of
view
sheds,
as
dr
davis
touched
on
earlier
people
in
our
rural
areas,
pay
a
premium
for
lots
and
for
homes
and
frankly,
these
homes
are
key
to
our
ability
to
attract
a
knowledge-based
workforce.
N
N
Frankly,
we
have
made
mistakes
in
the
past,
but
moving
forward.
We
have
an
opportunity
to
ensure
that
kentucky's
natural
resources
are
not
extracted
for
the
benefit
of
outside
interest,
while
kentucky
taxpayers
and
voters
bear
the
costs
to
ensure
that
county
governments
are
not
incurring
liability
that
they
cannot
afford.
N
A
recent
harvard
business
review
study
indicated
that
the
cost
to
recycle
a
single
solar
panel
is
between
20
and
30
dollars,
whereas
the
cost
to
dispose
of
it
in
a
landfill
is
one
to
two
dollars
to
prevent
our
state
from
becoming
a
dumping
ground
for
solar
waste.
We
need
to
make
smart
policy
decisions
now.
N
Code
enforcement,
while
typically
left
to
local
municipalities,
has
been
an
issue
in
other
states,
notably
in
virginia
where
local
county
governments,
frankly
don't
have
the
resources
to
monitor
and
regulate
large
installations,
such
as
industrial
solar
complexes
path
forward,
as
others
have
stated
today,
I
think
it's
imperative
that
we
maintain
local
control
of
citing
decisions.
Local
communities
are
best
suited
to
address
the
unique
land
issues
that
they
face.
N
We
should
also
encourage
comprehensive
planning
to
weigh
the
costs
and
benefits,
as
well
as
the
short
and
long-term
impacts.
I
think
that
there
is
a
role
to
incentivize
industrial,
solar
development
in
economically
depressed
areas,
and
I
would
encourage
the
members
of
this
committee
to
look
into
that.
N
Preserving
our
economic
engines
of
high-value
farmland,
while
I'm
not
here
to
advocate
for
any
specific
legislation.
I
would
draw
your
attention
to
the
fact
that
in
2019,
the
state
of
oregon
severely
restricted
industrial-scale
solar
development
throughout
the
willamette
valley.
That's
an
agricultural
area
of
about
3.6
million
acres
that
it
designated
as
high
value
farmland
by
comparison,
the
inner
bluegrass
region
is
only
a
third
of
the
size.
So
I
share
that
just
as
food
for
thought,
and
I
would
remind
you
that
industrial
scale,
solar,
is
not
the
only
solar
game
in
town.
N
Prime
farmland
is
important
in
that
it's
it's
feeds
our
population.
It
serves
to
sequester
carbon
as
a
carbon
sink,
and
if
we
can
appropriately
develop
systems
to
localize
food
production
and
networks
to
distribute
it,
we
have
an
opportunity
to
really
reduce
our
carbon
footprint
in
a
significant
way
which
benefits
all
of
us.
So
I'm
happy
to
take
any
questions
that
you
may
have
as
well.
As
answer
any
follow-up
questions
after
today's
hearing,
thank
you.
F
G
While
she's
doing
that,
I
don't
have,
I
don't
have
powerpoint,
so
I
thought
I
was
sharing
the
time
with
will.
So
this
is
great.
I've
got
a
little
bit,
maybe
maybe
one
or
two
more
minutes
myself,
but
I
just
want
to
introduce
myself.
I
am
julie
burton
I'm,
the
vice
president
and
co-director
of
citizens,
voice
of
mason
county.
Some
of
you
might
remember
when
we
were
here
even
in
14
about
the
wind
turbine.
G
Some
of
you
might
remember
our
beloved
joe
peffer,
who
was
our
county
judge
executive
and
unfortunately,
he
passed
away
in
the
night
of
the
first
day
we
were
gonna
have
our
first
zoom
meeting
over
over
solar.
So
you
know
that
that
affected
a
lot
of
this
and
and
luckily
his
sons
got
involved
and
a
lot
of
us
have
gotten
back
together
and
talked
about
this
researched.
G
It
heavily
people
losing
sleep
nights
of
sleep
loss
to
really
learn,
what's
really
going
on
behind
the
scenes
and
how
much
this
is
really
going
to
cost
to
decommission
and
so
forth.
I
mean
I've
got
some
numbers
here,
they're
from
new
york.
I
mean
up
in
the
millions
and
millions
of
dollars
to
decommission,
and
I
want
to
ditto
just
everything
that
will
said.
I
mean
we.
We
have
some
of
the
same
people
that
we're
working
with,
and
I
just
want
to
share
just
a
couple
of
short
anecdotes
from
some
of
our
meetings.
G
Okay,
if
you
can
make
it
brief,
yeah
sure
yeah
we
meet
at
like
one
of
the
local
guys,
a
nice
barn.
We
have
room
to
set
tables
and
everything
and
people
say
things
like
I'm
gonna
be
surrounded
by
three
on
three
sides
and
they've
talked
about
numbers
like
30
feet
from
the
property
line,
50
feet
from
the
road
I
mean
those
are
just
all
up
in
the
air
right
now.
Our
county
and
mason
county
kentucky
is
just
on
the
first
draft
of
the
ordinance,
but
you
know
numbers
being
thrown
out
like
that.
G
Make
the
public
curious
about
all
this
and
it's
just
a
big
concern,
and
I
want
to
thank
you
all
for
everything
that
you're
doing
to
regulate
it
and
make
this
good
for
farmland,
because
it's
all
about
food
production,
we
don't
want
to
lose
our
farmland
that
we
need
in
the
future
for
food
production
to
something
that
you
know
might
not
be
beneficial
to
the
most
of
us.
Thank
you
very
much.
Thank.
O
O
So
savion,
as
I
said,
we're
utility
scale,
storage
developer.
We
do
not
own
and
operate
the
assets.
We
do
all
of
the
work
to
get
the
local
agreements
in
place
with
communities
to
do
the
interconnection
work
with
the
utility
we'll
negotiate
off,
take
agreements
with
fortune,
500
companies
that
have
interest
in
this
in
this
space
and
then
when
the
project
is
ready
to
be
constructed.
O
So
I'm
here
today
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
our
work
in
kentucky
where
we
have
over
900
megawatts
in
development
that
equates
to
about
1.2
billion
dollars
of
capital
investment,
we're
looking
to
make
in
the
state
in
the
next
three
to
five
years,
including
the
martin
county
project,
senator
that
was
talked
about
earlier
related
to
industrial
revenue,
bonds
and
I'd
be
happy
to
attempt
to
answer
questions
as
a
non-tax
attorney.
On
that
front,
I
want
to
address
land
use,
which
I
know
has
been
beat
a
little
bit
up
today.
O
O
It's
about
20
percent
of
all
projects
in
the
pj
mq
that
get
to
the
final
part
of
being
built.
So
if
you
take
all
of
that
into
account
we're
looking
at
around
.2
percent
of
all
prime
farmland
in
kentucky
that
we
could
potentially
see
developed
in
the
next
five
to
ten
years,
so
from
our
perspective,
we
we
like
to
think
that
we
can
operate
harmoniously
with
the
agricultural
community
and
that
we
don't
see
ourselves
in
any
way
as
a
threat
to
the
overall
ag
community,
but
rather
as
an
accent
to
the
existing
landscape.
O
So
second,
I
do
want
to
talk
about
brownfields.
The
martin
county
project
that
we
have
talked
about
slightly
is
actually
pretty
far
along.
That
project
is
about
ready.
In
two
weeks.
It
will
have
a
local
hearing
with
the
citing
board.
It's
the
the
mandate,
the
the
statutory
mandate
for
a
decision
in
that
project
is
november.
So
we're
looking
to
be
in
construction
for
that
project
by
2022..
O
We
are
now
going
to
be
in
a
position
where
we
have
entered
into
an
industrial
revenue
bond
with
the
with
the
county,
who
was
very
happy
to
see
us
step
in
and
make
that
land
productive
once
again,
and
we
will
pay
that
community
300
000
a
year
for
30
years
of
production
for
land
that
was
previously
going
unused.
So
we're
very
proud
of
that
project
and
we're
looking
forward
to
being
able
to
talk
about
who
the
company
is
that's
going
to
ultimately
own
and
operate
that.
O
I
have
been
told
by
my
development
team
that
I'm
not
allowed
to
talk
about
that.
Yet,
unfortunately,
but
hopefully
in
the
coming
months,
I'll
be
able
to
share
some
exciting
news
on
that
front,
we
did
apply
for
a
grant
through
the
abandoned
mine
land
program
that
exists
here
in
the
state
of
kentucky.
My
understanding
is
that
we
were
not
approved
for
that
grant.
O
It's
it's
fairly
competitive
and
if
there
is
any
interest
from
this
committee
or
from
legislators
generally
to
talk
about
ways
to
incentivize
further
development
on
brownfields,
I
would
love
to
talk
about
that.
I
think
in
my
mind,
it
looks
like
maybe
adding
additional
dollars
to
the
abandoned
mine
land
program,
because
the
the
number
one
problem
with
developing
fields
or
abandoned
mines
is
they
cost
more.
O
So
this
is
a
highly
highly
competitive
industry
and
therefore
developing
on
a
brownfield
unless
it's
just
a
perfect
spot
with
access
to
transmission,
that's
incredibly
affordable,
it's
going
to
be
cost
prohibitive
compared
to
traditional,
green
fielding
or
or
developing
on
agricultural
lands.
So
we
would.
I
would
love
to
welcome
that
conversation
about
ways
to
push
developers
to
a
different
type
of
land.
Although
you
know,
as
I
stated,
we
don't
see
ourselves
as
an
industry
as
a
threat
to
agricultural
development,
but
anyways.
O
It
creates
financial
obligations
that
are
then
you
know
that
you
can
hold
the
company
accountable
to
them.
It
creates
standards
for
what
salvage
value
can
and
can't
be
counted,
and
how?
How
frequently
you
have
to
update
that
salvage
value
which,
pertinent
to
your
question
before
senator
hornback,
is
every
five
years
by
an
independent
third
party,
and
you
know
if
that,
if,
for
some
reason
the
value
of
salvage
goes
up
or
down
or
the
the
amount
of
of
decommissioning
money
goes
up,
we
are
required
as
a
company
or
whoever
owns.
O
It
is
required
to
top
up
that
bond
to
make
sure
that
there
is
zero
chance
of
a
rusty
solar
field
getting
abandoned
at
some
point
in
the
future.
So
there
are
a
whole
host
of
issues
related
to
decommissioning
that
I
believe,
as
an
industry
and
as
several
states
with
lots
of
solar
in
them
now
have
resolved.
O
So
recreating
the
wheel,
isn't
something
that
that
the
state
of
kentucky
will
be
required
to
do
and
again
senate
bill.
760,
we
think,
is
great
one
of
the
things
that
I'll
say
that
savion
does,
that
is
beginning
to
be
an
industry
standard.
Is
our
decommissioning?
Standards
are
not
tied
to
the
permit
they're,
not
tied
to
the
owner.
O
They
are
tied
to
the
lease
itself
and
so
the
landowner,
no
matter
how
many
landowners
we
have
or
or
who
eventually
owns
the
land,
that
land
itself
has
decommissioning
requirements
attached
to
it,
and
that
is
going
to
be.
I
think,
that's
an
important
step
to
bringing
trust
and
transparency
to
the
communities
where
we're
developing
and
development
only
moves
at
the
speed
of
trust.
F
Mark
thank
you
for
being
here
today
and
you've
been
more
than
helpful
to
me
in
the
past
and
meeting
with
me
and
and
talking
to
me
about
other
things,
and
you
know
what
we're
here
for
today
is
try
to
find
that
balance
and
make
sure
that
that
we
do
achieve
that
with
with
agriculture
or
land
use
and
and
and
for
solar
too.
So,
thank
you
and
I
hope
you
can
stick
around.
We
are
going
to
wait
until
everybody
is
done,
presenting
to
go
through
questions.
Yes,
thank
you.
Thank
you
mark.
F
E
E
E
So
one
of
the
the
things
that
is
so
great
about
these
solar
facilities
being
located
in
your
communities,
is
that
the
benefits
from
these
projects
also
flow
into
your
communities.
So
it
is
the
economic
impacts.
It's
those
construction
jobs
and
the
construction
of
a
utility
scale.
Solar
facility
can
last
a
couple
of
years
and
then
you've
got
all
the
supply
chain
benefits
associated
with
it.
E
E
So
if
you
think
of
how
many
megawatts
we're
talking
about
today-
and
you
do
that
multiplication,
it's
not
a
small
number,
it's
not
quite
the
same
as
a
coal-fired
facility,
but
at
the
same
time
it
is
high-paying
electrical
jobs,
communications,
computer
science.
I
just
spoke
with
a
graduate
student
at
kentucky
state
university,
the
other
day
in
computer
science
and
she's
really
interested
in
working
for
these
types
of
facilities.
E
So
we
did
talk
too
about.
Why
are
we
in
very
specific
areas,
and
it
really
all
does
flow
back
to
looking
at
the
transmission
assets
in
those
specific
areas,
so
we're
looking
at
the
transmission
and
then
we're
looking
at
the
capacity
on
those
transmission
lines?
I
have
a
lot
of
conversations
with
folks
in
communities
that
they
do
have
understandable
concerns
that
there
might
be
panels
everywhere
in
a
county,
but
the
truth
of
the
matter
is:
there's
only
so
much
capacity
on
a
single
line
and
to
build.
You
know
much
more.
E
That
would
cost
too
much,
so
there
might
be
only
opportunity
for
one,
maybe
two
projects
to
come
into
an
area
just
based
on
those
transmission
assets
alone.
So
I
like
to
point
that
out
too
there's
also
been.
I
know.
Tomm
fitzgerald
specifically
made
some
really
good
comments
about
getting
the
community
involved,
getting
them
knowledgeable
about
solar
and
what
the
project's
going
to
look
like
and
how
how
this
can
impact
the
the
surrounding
community.
E
So
I
like
to
speak
to
that
because
I
really
do
find
that's
that's
gene
x's
soft
spot
if
you
will
or
really
what
we
try
to
be
as
a
community
focused
solar
developer.
So
a
large
part
of
my
job
is
just
getting
out
there
and
we
host
events
to
educate
folks
on
solar,
but
sometimes
people
don't
come
to
you.
E
It's
a
new
technology
that
land
that
they're
used
to
it's
been
in
their
family
for
generations
and
we're
talking
about
a
potential
change
to
it.
That's
a
scary
thing:
I'm
from
indiana,
we
don't
like
change,
and
so
I
get
that
and
and
we
we
do
so
we
try
to
have
this
as
public
facing
as
possible,
but
at
the
same
time
I
hope
folks
do
understand
you
know.
Surely,
in
each
of
your
districts,
you've
worked
with
amazing
economic
development
opportunities
and
sometimes
the
developers
are
saying.
E
Unfortunately,
we
can't
come
out
with
all
of
the
details
yet
because
we're
still
trying
to
select
our
site
or
figure
out
what
this
facility
might
look
like.
It's
a
very
similar
process
for
us
as
well,
where
we
might
have
interested
landowners.
We
might
have
an
interconnection
position,
but
we
don't
know
what
your
ordinance
is
going
to
look
like
yet
for
setbacks
and
so
or
we
don't
have
all
of
the
land
in
an
area.
E
E
So
there's
there's
details
like
that
that
we
we
really
do
love
to
be
able
to
bring
out
once
that
opportunity
is
had,
but
in
the
meantime,
having
small
group
discussions
participating
in
public
hearings
presenting
to
fiscal
courts
to
be
able
to
speak
to
these,
because
we
are
also
in
agreement
that
this
should
be.
This
is
a
local
decision,
it's
it's
something
that's
happening
locally
in
the
counties
and
so
we're
we're
very
happy
to
be
able
to
have
those
conversations
with
folks.
E
I
think
one
of
the
last
things
I
wanted
to
touch
on
which
isn't
necessarily
my
my
speaking
point
but
senator
west.
If
I
may
address
your
your
comment
on
the
irb,
because
it's
a
good
one
and
that's
a
really
kind
of
complex
process,
I
understand
that
it's
because
of
the
the
commonwealth's
constitution
that
a
locality
can't
necessarily
offer
a
direct
tax
abatement,
but
so
it
has
to
go
through
this
industrial
industrial
revenue
process.
But
it's
not
a
general
obligation
bond,
so
the
issuer,
the
county,
would
not
be
on
the
hook
for
the
bond.
E
Rather
it's
the
revenue
streams
of
the
project
that
that
would
be
paying
for
these
industrial
revenue
bonds.
So
I
I'm
happy
to
talk
about
that
more.
We
have
legal
counsel
that
can
definitely
speak
to
that
more
that's
here
locally
and
deals
with
that,
a
lot
not
only
with
solar
but
has
experience
doing
that
with
a
lot
of
factories
and
other
manufacturing
facilities
that
have
used
them,
but
I
think
really.
E
I
just
wanted
to
outline
that
there
are
ways
to
harmonize
these
projects
with
their
communities
and
that
it
is
important
to
be
out
there
speaking
with
people.
We're
trying
to
do
both
and
we
think
that
the
result
of
such
will
allow
for
these
economic
benefits,
for
the
landowners,
for
the
communities
to
flow
back
into
the
commonwealth
and
for
you
all
to
take
care.
E
I
encourage
you
to
read
that
it
really
tells
his
story,
his
family's
story,
in
this
case,
each
of
our
landowners
has
a
very
specific
reason
for
entering
into
a
lease
with
us,
and
you
know
we
encourage
them
to
get
legal
representation
and
very
much
vet
these
these
agreements
and
we
try
to
provide
them
with
educational
resources,
but
they
also
go
their
own
routes
to
to
educate
themselves
as
well.
So
you
know
it's
common
for
we.
We
have
older
folks
that
want
to
preserve
this
for
their
families.
In
the
long
term.
E
F
K
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
and
also
the
members
of
the
committee.
I
realize
I'm
the
last
presenter-
and
I
know
a
lot
has
been
said,
and
so
I
want
to
just
touch
on
some
points
that
I
feel
like
have
not
been.
You
know
well
set
up
to
now.
My
name
is
betsy
engelking.
I
am
the
vp
of
policy
and
strategy
for
national
grid
renewables.
K
National
grid
renewables
adopted
a
policy
of
a
farmer-friendly
development,
and
this
meant
not
just
that
we
consulted
the
farmers
about
where
things
should
go,
but
that
we
also
invested
deeply
in
the
community.
We
leave
a
legacy
in
our
communities,
a
charitable
fund
for
20
years,
as
the
project
operates
at
200
per
megawatt
per
year
and
that's
run
by
a
non-profit
board
in
the
community.
All
we
do
is
fund
it.
They
decide
how
to
spend
it.
K
We've
had
people,
invest
in
volunteer,
firefighter
equipment,
grain
rescue
equipment,
ball
fields,
a
community
center
for
one
small
town
in
north
dakota
and
and
it's
ways
that
we,
you
know,
give
back
to
the
community
as
we
develop.
But
I
think
one
of
the
important
things
that
you
know
hasn't
really
come
up
here
is
that
developers
are
private
investors
that
are
bringing
investment
into
the
states
and
making
agreements
with
landowners
who
want
us
there.
K
Unlike
utilities,
we
don't
have
eminent
domain
authority.
We
can't
build
on
any
land
where
somebody
isn't
willing
to
allow
us
to
have
the
land
to
build
the
solar
project,
and
you
know-
and
we
value
those
relationships
and
we
value
our
relationships
in
those
communities,
because
without
them
there
is
no
there's
no
business
for
a
developer
and.
K
As
a
result,
we
work
very
very
hard
to
make
our
presence
known
in
communities
to
we.
We
don't
necessarily
hold
a
public
hearing
before
we
start
acquiring
land,
but
we
usually
do
hold
an
information
meeting
and
we
send
notice
out
and
we
bring
people
in
and
and
we
let
them
know
we're
interested
in
developing
and
what
are
your
concerns
and
you
know
who
might
be
interested
before
we
even
start
going
out
and
signing
up
land.
K
K
K
After
the
project's
done,
we
lift
the
poles
up
and
the
panels,
and-
and
we
just
take
it
all
away
whatever
we're
doing
with
it,
we
make
sure
that
any
electrical
is
buried
deep
enough,
that
it
does
not
disrupt
agriculture
processes,
and
you
know
really.
I
think,
one
of
the
important
things
about
farmers
that
we
do
business
with.
K
In
order
to
develop
an
energy
project,
you
know
and
farm
the
sun
or
farm
the
wind,
as
that
might
be,
is
valuable
to
them.
It
can
allow
them
to
continue
farming,
the
rest
of
their
property
to
keep
the
farm
and
the
family
to
do
some
things
like
that,
and
so
I
think
that's
an
important
aspect
that
I'd
like
you
to
think
about.
K
As
you
look
at
people
who
are
bringing
investment
into
kentucky,
leaving
tax
revenues
and
jobs-
and
you
know
working
very
hard
to
be
compatible
with
the
community
with
the
neighbors
to
develop
responsibly
and
to
not
try
to
overrun
the
state,
which
is,
I
think,
what
is
sometimes
intimated
that
we're
doing,
but
it
isn't
really
happening.
So
I
appreciate
your
time
and
we
will
stand
for
questions.
I
think
all
three
of
us
last
three
speakers
would
like
to
join
together
for.
F
You
know
a
comment
and
that
I'd
like
to
make
and
emily.
I
know
you
said
it
and
and
some
others
had
too,
but
you
talked
about
the
the
expense
or
the
cost
of
generating
electric
through
solar.
Now
it
has
less
than
it
was
through.
Other
methods
is
that
because
of
federal
tax
credits
and
those
things
I
mean
you're
figuring
all
that
in
there.
So
is
that
the
reason
and
what,
if,
if
it
were
not
for
that,
would
that
be
different.
K
F
K
You
know
we
don't
stand
apart
with
investment
tax
credits,
you
know,
there's
lots
of
benefits
for
coal
and
for
nuclear
and
other
places,
so
we're
not
the
sole
people
who
are
having
some
benefits
from
federal
incentives
that
buy
down
some
of
the
cost.
But
if
you
look
at
a
lazard
study-
and
I
can
I'd
be
happy
to
provide
you
with
a
study
when
they
actually
look
at
the
unsubsidized
costs
of
every
kind
of
energy
tech,
you
know
energy
electricity,
generating
technology
on
a
levelized
cost
basis,
so
on
a
per
megawatt
hour
basis.
K
K
When
you
start
talking
about
replacing
facilities,
and
so
I
think
that
it
is
fair
that
if
you
look
at
all
of
this
on
an
unsubsidized
basis
and
irrespective
of
what
kinds
of
credits
that
are
being
received,
we're
still
seeing
those
much
lower
costs,
and
one
of
the
reasons
for
that
just
so
you
understand.
Why
is
because
we
don't
pay
for
fuel,
so
fuel
is
one
of
the
most
variable
costs
in
the
life
of
a
generation
project.
K
F
Well,
my
one
final
comment:
I
don't
think
we've
got
any
other
question.
My
one
final
comment,
because
we
look
forward
to
working
with
you
all
and
members,
I'd
like
to
remind
you
that
we
did
spend
over
two
hours
in
this
meeting
today,
because
it
is
a
very
important
issue
and
it's
an
issue
that
needs
to
be
settled
this
year.
So
it's
not
one
that
can
introduce
something
this
year
and
then
wait
a
year
to
unsettle
it.
It's
something
that's
pertinent
right
now,
but
it's
something
that's
going
to
be
a
part
of
kentucky's
future
too.
F
So
what
it's
working
with
mark
chandler,
but
it's
working
with
these
folks
here
you
know
we
need
to
come
to
resolve
and
what
works
for
kentucky,
because
a
lot
of
other
states
have
done
this.
So
I
look
forward
to
working
with
you,
I'm
sure,
with
chairman
gooch,
with
chairman
smith,
with
chairman
heath
and
all
of
us
look
forward
to
working
with
you
all,
because
it
is
part
of
agriculture.
F
It
is
part
of
natural
resources
and
we
need
to
get
this
figured
out
and
I'm
sure
we
can
be
able
to
do
that
because
you
all
have
been
great
to
work
with
so
far.
So
with
that,
I'm
going
to
turn
it
over
to
representative
gooch.
To
any
final
comments
you
might
have
and
for
you
to
adjourn
the
meeting
when
you
get
get
ready.
A
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
all
for
being
here.
I
I
think
that
for
some
of
us
it's
it's
a
hard
sell
to
to
believe
that
that
the
subsidies
are
are
even
I
mean
everything
that
I've
seen.
Is
that
it's
not,
and
and
not
only
the
substances
for
the
particular
purchases
or
installations
or
whatever?
But
when
you
look
at
the
substances
that
have
gone
into
research.
A
Clearly
in
this
country
we
we
we
push
our
research
in
areas
that
we
we
want
to,
and
and
were
we
more
free
market
in
that
research?
I
think
that
there
might
be
some
other
research
that
could
have
helped
some
of
the
existing
industries
very
much
more.
But
again,
thank
you
for
being
here.
I
I
do
want
to
say
to
the
members
that
we
do
have
one
other
item
on
the
it
was
on
the
agenda.
There
was
some
regulations
from
fish
and
wildlife
and
there's
no
action
required
on
those.