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B
Thank
you
senator
harper
angel
president
traveling.
Thank
you.
Senator
schickel,
senator
southworth
here
in
the
room,
senator
turner,
senator
webb,
senator
westerfield,
senator
wheeler
representative
blanton
president
in
the
room
representative,
bowling
representative
bridges,
representative
burch,
representative
cantrell,
representative
dossett,
representative
dobson,
president
representative
du
plessy,
representative
flannery,
president
in
the
room
representative
fugate
president
representative
johnson,.
B
D
B
You
representative,
chair
smith,
president
and
chair
gooch,
president.
A
Okay,
we
do
have
a
quorum,
we
do
the
authorized
to
do
business.
We
need
to
approve
the
minutes
of
the
last
meeting.
Do
you
have
a
motion.
A
Motion,
second,
all
in
favor
signify
by
saying
aye,
all
opposed
by
like
sign
the
meetings
are
approved.
Well
welcome
everyone
to
what
probably
will
be
the
last
meeting
of
this
interim.
I
I
would
guess,
we've
had
a
lot
of
good
meetings,
and
so
I
see
representative
miles
has
joined
us.
A
But
then
it's
not
like
we're
high
fiving
going
down
the
hall
because
again
everybody
okay,
we
asked
it.
Someone
mute
your
phone.
Okay,
the
first
animal
agenda,
we're
going
to
have
a
kent
chandler
chair
of
the
public
service
commission
is
going
to
talk
about
the
resource
adequacy
in
the
commonwealth
and
the
united
states,
as
I
guess
it
relates
to
electricity,
electricity
grid
and
and
energy
welcome.
Kent.
E
All
right,
as
as
jeremy
gucci
said,
my
name
is
kent.
Chandler,
I'm
the
chairman
of
the
kentucky
public
service
commission
during
this
presentation,
I'm
speaking
for
myself
and
not
on
behalf
of
the
commission
or
any
other
commissioners.
Thank
you
for
allowing
me
to
be
here
today
and
talk
to
you
about
this.
Today's
presentation
is
primarily
related
to
the
interplay
between
utility,
reliability
and
renewables
or
intermittent
resources.
E
E
The
bedrock
of
retail
utility
regulation
in
the
state
is
that
utilities
may
only
charge
rates
that
are
fair,
just
and
reasonable,
and
the
utilities
are
under
an
obligation
to
provide
adequate,
efficient
and
reasonable
service.
Everything
we
talk
about
today
is
underpinned
by
these
two
statutory
directives
according
to
nerc,
which
is
the
north
american
electric
reliability
corporation,
whose
mission
statement
is
to
ensure
the
reliability
of
the
north
american
bulk
power
system.
E
Reliability
is
the
ability
of
the
electricity
system
to
supply
aggregate
electric
power
and
energy
to
meet
the
requirements
of
consumers
at
all
times,
taking
into
account
scheduled
and
unscheduled
outages
of
system
components.
Primarily.
What
I'll
be
discussing
today
is
the
reliability
of
the
bulk
electric
system,
not
necessarily
the
reliability
of
whether
the
lights
turn
on
when
you
flip
the
switch
at
home.
This
will
be
about
are
electrons
available
and
where
and
when
any
guy,
any
single
time
that
they're
demanded.
E
So
who
is
responsible
for
reliable,
ensuring
reliability?
The
lawyer
answer-
and
in
this
case
the
most
correct
one
is
it
depends
in
kentucky.
It
starts
with
the
utility
here
we
depend
primarily
on
vertically
integrated
investor-owned
utilities,
or
we
have
member-owned
cooperatives
who
in
turn
own
generation
and
transmission
cooperatives.
E
These
setups
are
referred
to
as
vertically
integrated
because
they
perform
the
generation,
transmission
and
distribution
functions
within
their
own
companies
or
within
a
tight
structure.
Other
states
and
I've
listed
a
few
here-
have
broken
out
these
functions
amongst
different
non-aligned
companies.
E
Further
in
some
other
states,
customers
can
choose
the
source
of
their
generation
here
in
kentucky,
the
generation
is
chosen
by
the
utility
that
ultimately
provides
a
customer.
The
delivery
service
service
territories
for
utilities
in
kentucky
are
defined,
so
the
utility
serving
customers
in
an
area
are
static
due
to
the
structure
and
monopoly
status
of
utilities.
In
kentucky
by
legislative
directive,
the
public
service
commission
regulates
utilities
in
the
state
in
a
further
attempt
to
ensure
reliability.
E
E
E
These
wholesale
rules
emanate
from
the
federal
energy
regulatory
commission
or
ferc
ferc
is
the
wholesale
gas
and
power
regulator
regulating
interstate
electricity,
while
the
public
service
commission
is
the
retail
regulator
focusing
on
end
use,
regulation
nerc,
the
north
american
electricity
energy
reliability
corporation,
is
granted
authority
to
set
reliability
requirements
by
ferc.
Finally,
ferc
also
regulates
rtos
and
isos.
E
I
didn't
put
them
on
here,
but
rtos
are
regional
transmission
organizations
and
isos
are
independent
system
operators
for
today's
presentation,
I'll
refer
to
both
as
just
rtos
rtos
are
basically
large
accumulation
of
large
accumulations
of
transmission
facilities
that
span
multiple
states
or
regions.
These
rtos
coordinate
transmission
operations
and
generation
dispatch,
as
well
as
operate
wholesale
electricity
markets
for
those
states
that
are
deregulated
or
not
vertically
integrated.
E
E
Here
is
a
map
of
the
united
states
that
shows
the
rtos
plus
texas
ercot.
The
grid
operator
in
texas
is
not
an
rto
and
is
not
regulated
by
ferc,
primarily
because
ercot
does
not
operate
in
interstate
commerce.
Kentucky
has
four
utilities
in
rtos,
kentucky
power,
east
kentucky
power
and
duke
kentucky
help
form
pjm
in
the
east.
E
E
E
E
Coming
back
to
the
integrated
resource
plans
or
irps
that
we
conduct
here
in
kentucky,
these
are
performed
under
requirements
and
psc
regulations
and
include
information
on
load
forecasts,
environmental
compliance
obligations,
generation,
retirement
plans,
transmission
constraints,
new
generation
needs
well
and
new
generation
needs.
Excuse
me
amongst
a
significant
number
of
other
items.
These
are
complicated
plans.
E
E
Interveners
are
able
to
participate
and
extensive
discovery
is
conducted
by
parties
and
commission
staff.
We
have
had
and
intend
on
continue
continue
to
have
evidentiary
hearings
on
these
cases,
as
the
psc
has
become
resource
constrained.
In
the
past
15
years,
reviews
of
irps
have
taken
a
back
seat
to
other
matters
that
have
defined
statutory
time
frames.
E
As
long
as
I'm
at
the
psc
utilities
can
expect
a
greater
focus
on
irps,
given
their
ultimate
importance,
utilities,
don't
necessarily
have
to
strictly
follow
the
plans
they
come
up
with
in
their
irps
as
they
choose
the
resources
to
serve
customers.
But
a
deviation
from
the
irp
ordinarily
demands
a
detailed
explanation.
E
E
Capacity
markets
help
ensure
generators
are
paid
enough
so
that
they
are
available
in
times
of
high
demand,
even
if
they
don't
get
to
make
much
money
throughout
the
year.
Selling
electricity
in
furtherance
of
ensuring
reliability,
both
pjm
and
iso,
have
also
instituted
a
way
to
determine
the
reliability,
contribution
of
intermittent
or
limited
duration
resources.
E
E
Capacity
factor
is
the
amount
of
electricity
produced
by
a
resource
over
a
time
period
as
a
percentage
of
the
total
amount
of
electricity
that
that
facility
could
have
produced
had
it
run
at
full
capacity.
An
easy
example
is
a
10
megawatt
gas
unit
that
runs
24
hours
a
day,
seven
days
a
week
at
10
megawatts
at
a
full
10
megawatts
the
capacity
factor
of
that
facility.
For
that
week
would
be
one
hundred
percent
if
it
ran
at
five
megawatt
output
for
the
entire
week.
E
E
So
in
the
way
past
utility
planters
may
say
well,
solar
has
a
16
capacity
factor
and
wind
has
a
25
capacity
factor.
So
if
we're
going
to
replace
a
coal
plant
with
wind,
we'll
just
use
four
times
as
much
name
plate
wind
as
we
would
cole
that
that's
clearly
flawed,
pjm
and
miso
have
recently
instituted,
though
an
elcc
or
effective
load
carrying
capability
to
replace
this
outdated
capacity
factor
regime
for
limited
duration
resources.
E
This
is
a
much
better
planning
tool
for
intermittent
resources.
Elcc
now
uses
a
resource
types
expected
contribution
to
meet
system
demand
in
order
to
determine
how
much
capacity
to
to
attribute
to
it.
If
you
had
a
fictional
system
that
year
round
had
high
demand
in
the
middle
of
the
night,
but
almost
no
demand
in
the
daytime,
the
elcc
for
solar
would
be
almost
nothing.
E
Compare
that,
however,
to
california
in
the
early
afternoon.
You
have
so
much
solar
that
prices
go
into
the
tank.
Yet
none
of
that
solar
is
available
to
meet
system
demand
in
the
late
afternoon
as
people
return
home.
If
california
used
a
pure
elcc
and
had
a
capacity
market
like
pjm,
few
people
would
build
solar
because
elcc
would
be
in
the
single
digits
and
you
wouldn't
get
any
money
from
those
capacity
payments
effectively.
E
E
Here
are
a
few
things
that
the
public
service,
commission,
retail
regulators
or
even
market
operators
at
the
rtos
can
do
to
adapt
and
help
ensure
reliable
bulk
electric
systems,
one
we
can
make
the
irp
process
better.
We
need
more
information
and
greater
detail
on
system
planning
all
the
way
down
to
the
distribution
system.
E
We
can
also
put
more
focus
on
resources
contribution
to
serving
customers.
If
you
have
a
gas
plant
that
in
high
demand
can't
get
fuel
because
the
local
gas
company
prioritizes
its
own
needs
over
that
generator.
Why
should
that
gas
plant
be
paid
for
capacity
that
it
can't
provide
when
it's
most
needed?
E
We
also
need
to
continue
to
study
the
interaction
between
gas
and
electricity,
especially
giving
the
increasing
trend
of
natural
gas
as
a
fuel
for
electricity.
We
also
need
better
modeling.
We
need
to
be
figuring
out
what
we're
missing,
what
we're
doing
wrong
and
where
our
load
forecasts
have
been
incorrect.
In
the
past.
E
One
thing
I
also
want
to
make
sure
I
mentioned
today
is
is
just
to
talk
about
what
resources
are
available
for
our
utilities
when
they
are
cons,
when
what
can
they
consider
in
order
to
meet
future
needs,
these
could
be
due
to
expanded
growth
or
due
to
other
generation.
Retirements
that
require
replacement.
E
Wind
and
solar
are
increasingly
cheaper
and
cheaper,
but
they're
not
perfect,
and
they
provide
their
own
planning
challenges
here
in
kentucky.
Nuclear
has
never
really
been
seriously
discussed
in
kentucky
as
a
resource
in
the
years
that
I've
been
doing.
This
cost
and
waste
storage
are
two
reasons
why
that
may
change.
E
E
Batteries
could
be
a
game
changer
and
may
work
in
certain
instances.
Today,
with
that
they're,
expensive
and
they're,
relatively
short
duration,
a
few
takeaways
I've
already
mentioned
the
first
one.
The
second
one
here
kentucky
is
getting
the
best
of
both
worlds:
we're
getting
cheap
power
for
markets
on
any
given
day,
but
we're
ensuring
reliability
and
resource
adequacy
as
standalone
entities
and
utilities.
E
On
that
subject,
the
third
item-
some
kentucky
utilities-
have
indicated
a
preference,
intent
or
thought
about
leaning
on
the
markets
for
resource
adequacy.
The
public
service
commission,
at
least
three
times
in
the
past
year,
has
explicitly
said
that
that
was
something
that
we
will
not.
We
are
not
going
to
let
happen
at
least
in
one
of
those
times.
We
said
that
kentucky
utilities,
regardless
of
their
participation
in
a
market,
must
be
planning
to
meet
their
own
customers
needs
with
their
own
resources.
E
Finally,
one
takeaway
is
that
we
have
to
stay
engaged
thorough
proceedings
at
the
public
service
commission
and
involvement
in
the
matters
by
the
psc
at
ferc
and
rto
levels
are
requirements
these
days,
we're
doing
our
best
to
dedicate
commissioner
and
commission
staff
time
to
these
items,
but
we
have
about
half
the
employees
we
had
20
years
ago.
Investor
owned
utilities,
file
rate
cases
about
twice
as
frequent
as
they
used
to
in
the
past
and
ferc
and
rto
matters
are
extremely
involved
and
complicated.
E
E
I
do
have
a
little
bit
of
information
about
what
our
current
resource
mix
is,
whatever
anybody
may
have,
but
I
do
appreciate
the
time
today
to
be
able
to
provide
this
presentation.
E
Yeah,
so
I
don't
have
it
on
nameplate
capacity,
but
I
did
pull
from
the
eia.
The
energy
information
agency
for
2020,
the
electricity
that
was
produced
in
kentucky
across
the
entire
state
for
for
all
sources,
was
about
60,
almost
69
coal,
close
to
eight
percent,
hydroelectric
and
22,
and
a
half
percent
natural
gas
other.
I
never
know
what
other
is,
but
other
petroleum,
solar
thermal
and
photovoltaic
solar,
biomass
and
wood
and
wood
derived
fuels
all
are
below
a
half
a
percent.
Each.
A
Okay,
thank
you,
kent,
one
of
the
things
that
we
we
talked
about
when
you're
talking
about
utilities
kind
of
having
to
project
10
years
out
15
years.
I
think
you
said
that's
right,
you
know,
and
so
some
things
that
are
really
happening.
A
E
Yeah
I'd
be
happy
to
speak
about
that.
That
was
one
of
the
the
takeaways
I
didn't
want
to
get
in
too
much
detail
given
the
time
constraints,
but
but
when
I
was
talking
about
modeling,
especially
load
modeling,
that
that's
one
of
the
key
inputs
and
really
one
of
the
key
unknowns
that
we
don't
know
these
days
right,
what's
going
to
be
the
adoption
of
electric
vehicles
generally
and
then
are
those?
Are
those
electric
vehicle
owners
going
to
have
a
preference
for
charging
at
home
at
night?
E
E
I
think
that,
for
at
least
the
short-term
horizon,
I'd
say
the
five
to
ten
years
we
probably
do
have
adequate
generation
to
meet
the
demands
only
because,
as
as
energy
as
electric
vehicle
adoption
does
come
along,
we're
also
still
seeing
reduction
in
reductions
in
demand
because
all
of
our
appliances,
industrial
production,
they're
all
getting
much
more
energy
efficient,
and
so
as
as
the
demand
is
increasing
on
some
sides,
it's
decreasing
on
others.
E
We,
don't,
though
we
are
not.
Our
utilities
are
not
I'd,
say
ahead
of
the
game,
on
distribution
planning
for
for
electric
vehicles
and-
and
I
think
a
couple
of
the
utilities
have
recently
indicated
that
they're
looking
into
it
one
of
the
things
I
say
that
we
sort
of
get
the
benefit
of
kentucky
is
that
most
of
our
utilities
are
smaller
operating
companies
of
larger
of
utilities
that
have
larger
operations
in
other
states.
E
Thankfully,
most
of
our
utilities
have
had
at
least
in
some
of
their
other
sister
states
have
had
experience
on
this,
where
they
do
have
greater
ev
adoption.
But
it's
really
going
to
hit
on
the
transmission
and
distribution
system
planning,
because,
especially
fast
chargers,
take
a
lot
of
demand
very,
very
quickly
and
it's
pretty
expensive
to
make
those
distribution
upgrades.
A
Okay,
something
else
that
I'm
I'm
looking
at.
You
know
when,
when
you
have
a
utility
and
and
as
you
said
earlier,
a
lot
of
our
their
commerce,
their
customers
are
demanding
more
renewables
into
the
mix
or
whatever,
and
that's
okay
and
the
utility
can
pretty
much
manage
that
because
you
know,
I
think
they
traditionally
had
about
a
15
percent
kind
of
a
variation.
Where
that
you
know
they
were
able
to
meet
the
demand
if
something
happened
and
something
was
offline
within
within
a
certain
percentage,
small
percentage,
15
or
whatever.
A
But
as
you
start
seeing
renewables
that
are
intermittent
sources
that
just
happen
to
be
there
when
they're
there
and
when
those
intermittent
sources
wrap
up
to
30
percent
or
whatever,
then
it.
It
appears
to
me
that
you
know
they
may
have
a
lot
tougher
time,
guaranteeing
that
reliability,
and
is
that
something
that
the
psc
looks
at
when
you're
approving
their
distribution
or
their?
You
know
their
sources,
their
rates,
everything.
E
Yeah
and
it's
not
something
that,
given
the
the
lack
of
penetration
at
this
point
that
we've
had
to
deal
with
directly,
I
think
it's
a
consideration
that
we
have
it.
I
want
to
go
back
to
this
slide
11..
That
was
one
of
the
things
I
mentioned,
the
third
from
the
bottom,
greater
variability
with
reserve
margins,
and
that's
what
you
were
talking
about.
That
reserve
margin
that
cushion
that
all
the
utilities
have
historically,
that
reserve
margin
anywhere
across
the
united
states
has
been
between
I'd,
say,
probably
13
and
25
percent.
E
Some
utilities
are
given
serious
consideration
as
renewables
start
coming
online
and
they're
more
dependent
on
it,
especially
in
a
lot
of
the
other
states
that
that's
been
the
case
of
of
increasing
that
higher
end
reserve
margin
to
make
it
you
know
maybe
26
or
make
it
30
percent
and-
and
that's
really
frankly,
part
of
what
that
irp
is
do
we
do.
E
We
depend
on
certain
types
of
resources
that
are
cheaper
and
just
have
to
have
more
of
them
and
make
that
reserve
margin
larger
or
do
we
depend
on
something
that
may
be
more
expensive,
but
is
more
reliable,
and
so
we
can
actually
lower
that
reserve
margin
and
balancing
those
two
sides
is
really
where
you
start
getting
into
least
cost
resource
planning.
So
that's
certainly
something
that
will
come
up
as
we
move
forward
in
those
integrated
resource
plans.
B
A
A
Okay,
that
woke
everybody
up,
so
if
you
were
sleeping
that
was
for
you,
one
of
the
things
that
I
personally
am
concerned
about
is
that
you
know-
and
we
mentioned,
that
utilities
adding
more
renewables
and
that
sort
of
thing
more
intermittent
sources
into
the
mix,
because
those
utilities
most
of
in
most
cases
are
regulated
by
the
public
service
commission
and
but
what
we're
starting
to
see
in
kentucky
is
a
whole
lot
of
merchant
solar
permits
that
are
that
are
being
asked
for
that's
power,
that's
sold
directly
into
the
grid
to
the
miso
or
pjm
or
whatever,
and
public
service
commission
doesn't
really
have
other
than
the
sighting
boards.
A
You
have,
you
know
a
couple
people
that
might
be
on
the
siding
boards.
You
really
don't
have
oversight
over
that
situation,
and
I'm
wondering
do
you
see
that
as
a
potential
problem
when,
as
that
affects
reliability,
resiliency
and
and
possibly
even
cost,
when
we
have
so
much
merchant
power,
that's
been,
you
know,
asked
for
out
there.
E
Yeah,
so
I
don't
have
a
concern
from
the
perspective
of
reliability.
If,
for
no
other
reason,
then
you
know
separately
from
those
merchant
generations,
all
of
our
utilities
are
doing
their
own
resource
adequacy
in
terms
of
cost
one
of
the
things
that
the
the
sighting
board.
I
know
I've-
probably
I've
already
bored
this
group
with
the
sighting
board
presentation
a
couple
months
ago.
E
E
But
with
that
being
said,
all
of
these
merchant
generators
all
have
to
conduct
facility
studies
and
enter
different
interconnection
studies
with
the
rtos
or
for
lg
eku
directly
with
their
system
planner,
and
they
have
to
pay
the
entirety
of
the
cost
of
system
upgrades
that
are
required
for
interconnecting
that
that
facility.
So
they
they
can't
interconnect.
E
Unless
there
there's
a
study,
that's
done
and
said
you
know,
you're
going
to
cause
I'm
getting
really
into
the
weeds
here,
you're
going
to
cause
a
voltage
violation
on
this
specific
transmission
line,
and
it's
going
to
cost
27
million
dollars
to
to
fix
it.
Unless
that
interconnector
is
willing
to
pay
the
27
million
dollars
to
to
fix
the
problem
that
their
interconnection
is
going
to
cause,
they
don't
they
aren't
allowed
to
interconnect,
and
that
is
a
prerequisite
before
they're
able
to
come
online
and
energize
and
start
providing
that.
E
So
at
this
time,
at
these
sort
of
levels,
I
don't
necessarily
think
that's
a
problem.
The
other
side
of
it
is
I'll
just
real
quickly
for
miso
and
pjm
for
their
interconnection
processes.
I
think
that
they
they
look
at
all
these
different
projects
in
a
serial
manner
right,
so
they
look
at
them
by
group.
So
this
group
came
first
and
we're
going
to
study
those.
E
If,
if
this
group
doesn't
pay
for
that
upgrade,
then
it's
going
to
fall
on
the
shoulders
of
the
next
group
that
impact
that
same
facility,
but
they
also
study
the
second
group
as
saying
okay,
you
fixed
that
one,
but
now
that
you
fix
this
one,
these
people
coming
on
are
going
to
cause
another
problem
and
they're
going
to
have
to
pay.
For
that.
With
all
that
being
said,
I
don't
see
it
as
being
an
issue
for
reliability
for
our
utilities
and
our
customers.
E
Time
frame
for
those,
mostly
those
mid-atlantic
states
that
are
leaning
on
the
market
and
don't
have
their
own
generation.
E
F
Yeah
dude
first,
thank
you
for
your
presentation
and
just
speaking
about
solar,
I
was
curious
how
much
of
the
solar
is
currently
planned
and
pending
there
at
the
siding
board,
and-
and
my
next
question
is
with
that-
how
do
you
plan
on
integrating
that
into
the
system.
E
Yeah,
so
so
the
integration
process
is
what
I
was
talking
about
earlier,
where
those
interconnection
studies
are
completed.
E
So,
even
before
a
citing
board
application
gets
filed
for
a
new
project,
they
file
an
interconnection
interconnection
application
with
either
miso
or
pjam
or
lg
and
eku
or
tva
actually,
and
so
those
independent
system
planners
like
lg
and
eku,
have
to
turn
over
that
types
of
system
planning
to
an
outside
entity.
Someone
that's
independent,
unbiased,
so
those
system
planners
are
looking
at
the
integration
into.
F
I
guess
the
follow-up
just
for
for
me
to
process
it
from
just
a
you
know,
a
senator
and
certainly
not
in
that
field,
but
it
it
sounds
to
me
like
we're.
Not
really
sure.
I
mean
that
how
this
thing's
going
to
go
forward
and
you've
got
to
study
for
it
and
you've
got
other
protocols
to
follow,
but
that
doesn't
seem
like
a
very
clear
path
where
we're
at
so
there's
still
a
lot
of
unknowns.
Is
that
safe
to
say.
E
So
I'll
say
it
this
way
across,
let's
say
the
eastern
interconnect
from
the
rocky
mountains
to
to
to
the
atlantic
ocean
minus
texas,
because
texas
is
always
the
exception
when
it
comes
to
all
these
things.
There
are
massive
backlogs
in
these
generations:
they're
called
generation,
interconnection
queues,
tons
and
tons
of
generators
are
filing
applications.
E
Sometimes
you'll
have
a
single
entity
that
needs
to
sell
and
build
and
sell,
maybe
may
already
have
a
contract
for
it,
but
may
need
to
build
and
sell
100
megawatts
of
solar
they're
gonna
put
in
five
seven
ten
applications
to
figure
out
which
one
of
them
is
the
cheapest.
So
when
you
talk
about
unknowns,
truly
a
very
small
percentage
of
those
things,
those
applications
that
are
filed
are
actually
going
to
move
forward
in
the
planning
process.
So
there
is
a
significant
unknown
there.
F
But
if
I
may
follow,
mr
chairman,
obviously
this
is
a
big
issue
and
there's
so
much
that's
changing
across
kentucky
and
we're
seeing
a
lot
of
developments
in
different
rural
pockets.
F
But
what's
what
I
believe
is
most
important
for
kentucky,
because
we're
so
positioned
to
become
a
tech
giant
in
the
nation
that,
if
our
hash
rate
just
straight
up
talking
about
how
it
works?
If
if
our
hash
rate
is
high
enough,
that
puts
kentucky
out
there
above
other
states,
there'll
be
no
slowing
us
down.
So
the
economic
development
for
kentucky
is
different
in
the
sense
of
that,
because
we
are
a
power
state
like
we
are.
F
We
have
opportunities
that
maybe
texas
or
a
few
other
states
have
but
how
we
handle
that
is
going
to
change
the
entire
scope
of
places
like
eastern
kentucky
western
kentucky
to
where
they
will
become
the
new
tech
giants
of
the
united
states
and
you're
already
seeing
partnerships
with
global
companies
in
these
rural
areas
and
every
bit
of
its
power,
I
mean
I
don't
care
if
you're
talking
about
bitcoin
blockchain,
deutsche
coin
or
whatever
you
want
to
call
it
all.
F
Those
things
are
measurements
of
electricity
of
power
that's
generated,
so
getting
this
thing
right
is
vital,
make
sure
the
public
service
commission
is
is
working
with,
and
it's
fluid
with
our
industries
and
our
utilities
that
they're
able
to
move
forward
at
the
speed
of
business
to
deploy
these.
So
we
don't
lose
them.
F
There's
not
a
lot
out
there
that
can
slow
kentucky
down
unless
we
just
are
not
able
to
provide
it
due
to
regulation
or
because
we've
closed
so
much
down
we're
not
able
to
do
the
affordability.
So
I
say
as
we
go
forward.
We
need
to
be
cautious
about
this,
because
our
future
can
shift
at
this
point
in
a
way.
We've
never
had
that
opportunity
before
sorry
to
be
so
long.
Mr
chairman,
thank
you.
A
Well
and
one
of
the
things
that
to
follow
up
on
that,
when
I
came
here
about
27
years
ago,
kentucky
had
probably
the
second
third
third
lowest
utility
rates
in
the
nation
electricity
rates.
Now
I
don't
think
we're,
even
in
the
top
ten
we're.
You
know
we're
somewhere
pretty
close,
but
I
don't
know
if
you
know
exactly
where
we.
E
Are
not
by
year
by
year,
but
we're
relative
to
everybody
else
we're
doing
we're
doing
fair
doing
fairly
well
on,
on
the
actual
rate,
that's
right
for
for
residential
and
industrial,
certainly
yeah.
A
So
you
know
we
just
want
to
make
sure
that
we
maintain
that
representation
has
a
question.
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
Just
just
a
couple
questions
you
know,
since
the
closing
of
the
coal
powered
plant
in
east
kentucky,
our
people
have
have
experienced
higher
rates
on
their
electric
electricity,
so
question
for
you:
when
kentucky
power
sold
out
or
in
the
process
of
selling
out
to
another
company,
does
the
psc
have
to
approve
that?
Yes,.
E
So
I
was,
I
was
hoping
I
wouldn't
get
this
question
only
because,
oh
because
I
I
do
anticipate
sending
a
letter
to
to
this
committee,
this
interim
committee,
as
well
as
to
the
the
kentucky
power
delegation
sort
of
explaining
what
that
process
will
be.
So
there
are
a
couple
of
things
that
will
have
to
happen.
E
I'd
be
happy
to
talk
about
in
detail,
but
at
a
very
high
level,
kentucky
power
will
have
to
seek
commission
public
service
commission
approval
in
order
to
transfer
their
assets
and
be
sold,
and
they'll
also
have
to
go
to
that
federal
commission
and
get
approval
not
just
for
the
transfer,
but
there
will
also
be
I'm
going
to
be
surprised
if
there's
not
a
half
a
dozen
things
that
they
have
to
request
at
the
federal
level.
In
order
for
that
that
cell
to
go
through
with
that
transfer
to
occur.
B
Okay
from
if
I
made
mr
chairman,
more
questions,
so
if
it
is
approved
and
this
new
company
buys
it
will
they
sell
it
for
a
profit
and
if
they
do
sell
it
for
a
profit,
I'm
sure
or
they
wouldn't
sell
it.
Will
the
customers
absorb
have
to
absorb
that
profit
that
the
company
made
is
the
is
the
customers
who
already
have
had
an
increase
of
pretty
good
percentage
in
a
place
where
we,
our
jobs,
are
not
like
they
should
be?
Are
they
going
to
have
to
absorb
that
difference
in
our
in
our
pay
rates?
B
E
E
A
handful-
let's
say
over
the
past
past
five
or
six
years,
almost
all
of
them
include,
what's
referred
to
you're,
saying
overpay,
an
acquisition
premium,
I'm
unaware-
I
I
just
say
I'm
unaware
of
any
instance
in
which
the
public
service
commission
has
allowed
customers
of
a
sold
electric
utility
to
to
have
to
bear
the
burden
of
that
acquisition
premium.
E
B
That
in
the
past,
when
the
coal
fire
plant
was
shut
down
and
they
acquired
a
natural
gas
generator
over
in
west
virginia,
I
think
it
is
that
I
think
the
customers
had
to
bear
the
burden
of
that
yeah.
B
Because
they
raised
the
rates
or
they
came
to
the
public
service
commission
to
get
a
rate
increase
because
of
their
their
acquisition
of
this
new
generation.
So
you
know
just
speaking
from
east
kentucky,
you
know
they're
about
to
break
the
donkeys
back
down
in
east
kentucky
and
we
can't
afford
our
people
cannot
afford
another
25
or
30
percent
hike
on
our
electrical
rates.
Yeah.
E
I'll
be
the
first
to
tell
you
I'm
unaware
of
any
I'm
aware
of
any
proposed
increase.
That
would
be
the
first
day
unless
somebody
just
forgot
to
tell
me
about
it,
which
I
I
find
hard
to
believe.
I'm
I'm
unaware
of
any
proposing.
Chris,
that's
the
first
thing,
and
I
I
appreciate
the
comments
so
so
kentucky
power
did
retire
in
2012.
They
were,
they
decided
to
retire
the
the
big
sandy
plant
there
in
east
kentucky,
and
they
you
know
the
basis
for
it.
E
I
wasn't
around,
then
the
basis
for
it
was
and
that
the
environmental
compliance
cost
was
going
to
be
more
expensive
than
it
would
be
to
go,
buy
just
a
whole
new
power
plant
and
that's
effectively
what
they
did.
They
went
and
bought
a
half
of
a
power
plant
in
west,
virginia
retired
that
big
sandy
plant
and
then
either
immediately
before
immediately
after
that
refueled,
the
other
big
sandy
plant.
There
was
another
power
plant
at
big
sandy
right
that
they
still
own
and
they
converted
that
to
a
natural
gas
plant.
E
E
F
Yeah,
no,
I
I
just
kind
of
want
to
echo
what
senator
sorry,
what
representative
said
you
know
about
the
the
transition
that's
pending
out
there,
because
it's
not
not
finished
yet,
and
a
great
many
of
our
businesses
and
citizens
are
curious
about
exactly
what's
going
to
happen
as
this
goes
through
and
who
our
new
partner
may
be
and
what
the
fall
out.
But,
but
how
we
got
here
was
the
issue
that
got
us
here
was:
was
money
and
an
amount
of
money
that
was
really
at
the
point
of
not
being
recoverable.
F
So
when
this
deal
transpires,
somebody's
probably
going
to
have
to
eat
that.
I
think
our
concern
is:
is
that
going
to
be
taken
care
of
and
settled
up
inside
this
transaction?
Or
is
the
transaction
going
to
be
taking
place?
And
then
that's
going
to
be
transferred
to
the
general
public
and
the
businesses
to
pick
that
up?
Because
if
it's,
what
I
think
it
is,
I
don't
know,
like
representative,
said
that
well
you're
going
to
be
able
to
absorb
that
realistically
in
the
region
without
tipping
the
scales
of
causing
us
to
lose
new
industry.
F
If
we
honestly,
if
we,
the
government,
could
get
out
of
the
way
and
let
them
do
their
job
over
there,
I
think
that
the
industry
in
kentucky
would
be
twice
probably
what
it
is
now,
but
I
do
caution
us
as
we
go
forward
that
as
that
deal
whatever
happens
with
that,
the
fact
of
tipping
the
scales
there,
with
these
increases
in
utility
could
be
catastrophic
for
new
businesses
that
just
came
in.
A
Thank
you
smith.
I
think
representative
miles
is
online
and
has
a
question.
B
Yes,
thank
you
chairman,
and
thank
you
for
your
presentation.
We've
heard
from
multiple
directions
of
the
psc
is
understaffed.
Right
now,
can
you
address
that
a
little
bit,
because
I
know
everyone
wants
you
all
to
have
quick
turnaround
on
things,
but
do
you
all
have
adequate
staff
to
be
able
to
to
comply
with
quicker
turnarounds.
E
No,
I
I
don't.
I
really.
I
don't
mean
to
be
flippant,
commissioner
or
representative
miles.
I
I
really
don't,
but
I
just
want
to
be
honest.
We
do
not
we
we
do
have.
I
was
speaking
to
a
commissioner
the
other
day
that
actually
had
spent
two
stints
at
the
public
service
commission
as
well,
some
time
on
ferc.
E
Her
comment
to
me
when
she
asked
me
how
many
people
we
had
her
initial
reaction
was
we
had
twice
that
many
when
I
was
there
we
have,
we
don't
necessarily
have
more
cases
than
we
used
to
it's
fairly
flat.
The
complexity
of
cases
is
much
higher
than
it
used
to
be.
I
love
to
come
in
one
time
and
provide
a
presentation
chairman
on
this
issue.
E
E
The
rest
are,
you
know,
doing
different
things
that
that
we
need
day-to-day,
that
that
we
have
that
many
people
to
end
up,
maybe
a
quarter
of
those
work
on
a
rate
case
and
and
three
commissioners
and
we're
supposed
to
you
know,
be
able
to
roll
on
a
30
000
page
case
that
has
to
begin
and
end
within
six
months
from
the
day
that
was
filed.
So
the
the
answer
is
is
is
no,
I
think
if
you
ask
the
investor
on
utilities
and
the
rural
electric
cooperatives,
we
probably
move
too
slow.
E
If
you
ask
the
water
districts,
we
probably
move
a
little
too
fast.
So
I'm
happy
to
make
anybody.
We
can
we
I'm
happy
to
have
the
conversation
on
that,
but
today
we
don't
have
the
current
resources.
We
need
to
do
our
current
work.
That
was
before
all
these
solar
sighting
cases
came.
That
was
before
all
the
arpa
money
and
now
likely
the
infrastructure
money
we'll
be
here
we're
going
to
have
a
lot
of
certificate
of
public
convenience
and
necessities
from
our
rural
water
utilities.
E
Our
our
sewer
utilities
need
to
come
in
and
build
things
after
they
build
it.
They're
going
to
need
to
come
in
and
change
their
rates
we
have
to
up.
You
know,
do
those
as
well
all
at
the
same
time
that
our
investor
owned
utilities
have
rate
cases
two
to
three
times
more
often
than
they
used
to
so
it's
adding
up
and
we
have
less
and
less
people
every
day
and
and
frankly,
if
it
wasn't
for
a
dedicated
staff
of
the
folks
that
we
have.
B
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
I'll,
try
to
make
it
quick.
Thank
you
for
your
presentation.
Chairman
gucci
asked
about
elect
electric
vehicles,
we're
obviously
making
a
big
move
in
that
direction,
and
I
believe
your
answer
is
we're.
We
are
ready
five
years
from
now,
but
what
about
10
years?
From
now?
What
what
suggestions?
You
have
to
be
sure
that
we're
ready
for
a
quick
transition
to
electric
vehicles.
E
Yeah,
so
a
few
of
our
utilities
have
already
started
thinking
about
this,
so
lgdk
you've
already
started
talking
about
electric
vehicles,
so
is
duke
in
northern
kentucky.
I
I
believe
that
aep,
the
the
current
parent
company
of
of
kentucky
power,
I
think,
duke
lg
eku,
have
all
joined
in
on
this
multi-state
effort
to
start
looking
at
electric
vehicle
charging
stations
across
a
wider
territory
start
looking
at
distancing
and
impact.
E
E
Now
that
you're,
adding
these
significant
increases
in
demand
in
discrete
areas
on
the
system,
I'm
a
little
less
worried
about
electric
vehicles
in
terms
of
personal
vehicles,
just
because
you're
gonna
you're,
you
know
where
they're
gonna
be
right
and
you
know
they're
gonna
be
incremental,
but
each
one's
not
gonna
push
you
over
the
top
on
anything.
It's
not
going
to
make
you!
You
know
one
more
addition
is
not
going
to
make.
You
have
to
go
get
a
new
transformer.
E
My
biggest
concern
on
electric
vehicles
is
fleet,
electrification
are
people
like
ups
or
you
know:
garbage
carriers,
delivery
trucks
right
with
people
that
that
stay
within
a
certain
defined
area
that
all
of
a
sudden,
you
have
an
entire
amazon
hub
that
decides
to
electrify
their
their
van
fleet
and
all
of
a
sudden
you're
going
to
have
within
a
year's
time
period
go
from
having
you
know,
whatever
the
building
is
using
as
being
the
demand
of
that
area
to
now
you're
going
to
need
to
charge
40
40
vans
overnight
from
0
to
100.
E
A
Okay,
finally,
I
have
a
a
question.
I
was
senator
smith
and
I
are
on
the
southern
states,
energy
board,
and
I
was
in
the
in
september.
I
was
in
oklahoma
city
and
they
talked
a
lot
about
what
happened
with
last
year
with
the
polar
vortex
that
happened
that
hit
oklahoma
as
well
as
texas.
We're
not
going
to
talk
too
much
about
texas
other
than
to
say
they.
A
They
came
very
close,
as
I've
heard
as
little
as
four
hours,
with
totally
losing
their
entire
electric
grid
and
even
in
a
situation
where
they
just
had
some
blackouts
at
least
200
people
died.
Some
estimates
as
much
as
it
could
have
been
as
many
as
700
people.
So
what
what
can
happen?
It
shows
that
people
can
will
die
when
you
have
those
types
of
brownhouse,
blackouts
and
outages.
A
I
heard
the
governor
of
oklahoma
actually
tell
a
group
of
high
school
kids
that
they
were
within
a
few
hours
there
of
actually
not
being
able
to
watch
tick-tock
videos
for
two
or
three
weeks
and
and
their
minds
were
almost
blown.
It's
like
how
could
something
like
that
happen,
but
but
it
but
it
can,
and
in
the
oklahoma
situation
what
they
told
us.
A
There
is,
of
course,
that
one
time
they
had
a
pretty
good
mix
of
coal,
but
they
have
actually
they
have
a
lot
of
wind
and
they
were
currently
getting
about
40
of
their
electricity
from
wind
and
they
get
about
40
percent
from
natural
gas.
They
were
getting
about
10
percent
from
coal
and
the
other
10
or
so
percent
from
from
others,
and
when
that
fog
happened,
they
had
freezing
fog
that
actually
froze
the
windmills
up
to
where
they
would
not
turn.
A
And
then
you
had
situations
where
the
gas
a
lot
of
the
gas
wellheads
froze
up
and
that
10
of
their
capacity
that
they
had
from
coal
was
able
to
ramp
up
to
50
about
53
and
actually
save
them
and
prevent
them
from
losing
their
entire
grid
and
that
sort
of
thing.
But
my
question
is
when
we
are
allowing
all
these
other
sources
to
be
bought
first,
we're
demanding
that
when
they
are
available
that
they're
bought
that's
taking,
I
guess
money
away
from
some
of
the
other
systems.
A
D
E
Yeah,
so
I
I
don't
want
to
pretend
like.
I
have
all
the
all
the
answers,
I'll
I'm
going
to
pretend
like.
I
have
all
the
answers,
but
I
really
don't
so.
One
of
the
things
that
would
have
helped
is
a
capacity
market
is
paying
somebody
enough
to
stay
open,
even
if
they're
not
selling
electricity
on
any
given
day
spp,
which
is
on
the
other
side
of
mike's
miso.
Another
rto
I'll
go
to
that
map
here
in
a
second
spp
does
not
have
a
capacity
market,
pj
m
and
iso.
E
Both
do
miso
was
sending
power
to
spp.
Pjm
was
sending
power
to
myso,
so
they
could
then
send
it
to
spp
pjm
pgm
exported
an
extra
13
000
megawatts
at
any
given
time
to
miso,
so
they
could
then
send
more
thousand
megawatts
to
spp
the
the
fact
that
you.
E
In
these
rto
areas,
you
need
to
have
either
great
markets
or
state
regulators
that
are
are
staying
up.
You're
you
are
having
in
some
of
these
markets,
particularly
miso
you're,
having
states
that
think
in
the
short
term,
it's
cheaper
if
we
just
lean
on
the
market
for
resource
adequacy,
almost
every
single
jurisdiction,
every
state
and
miso
is
vertically
integrated
in
kentucky,
but
most
of
not
most
some
of
their
utilities.
E
Some
of
their
states
are
just
saying
as
long
as
we
can
meet
the
minimum
for
miso,
that's
good
enough
and
and
to
me,
it's
really
trying
to
do
it
on
the
cheap
in
the
short
term,
and
I
think
ultimately,
it
does
lead
to
reliability
issues
in
the
long
term.
I've
heavily
involved.
I
try
to
stay
very
involved
in
pjm
issues.
Pjm,
as
a
management
has
no
interest
in
letting
the
the
generation
that
they
know
is
required
for
reliability
to
retire
and
not
have
reliability
generation
come
on
behind
it.
A
Well-
and
I
agree
with
you,
but
I
think
that
means
that
we
have
to
understand,
and
actually
you
know
realize
how
important
it
is
and,
as
you
say,
possibly
invest
in
keeping
those
markets
open,
because
even
if
we
shut
those
down,
as
you
said,
you
know
a
lot
of
them-
they're
they're,
not
you
know
they
still
have
years
of
life
expectancy
left.
They
have
legacy
costs
and
we'll
be
paying
that
legacy
costs.
If
we
were
to
shut
them
down
and
then
we
wouldn't
have
the
reliability.
A
So
let's
go
ahead
and
pay
that
now
to
make
sure
that
they're
able
to
operate
even
when
they're,
not
selling
electricity.
I
think
that's
where
we
have
to
go,
and
I
certainly
agree
with
that
and
thank
you
so
much
for
your
presentation.
Today.
It's
been
very
informative
and
I
think,
as
you
can
see
from
the
questions
in
the
committee,
we
were
we're
very
much
interested
in
in
your
presentation
and
and
we
appreciate
it
thanks.
Thank
you
all
for
having
me
yes,
sir.
A
We
I
want
to
recognize.
We
have
a
new
committee
member
today
and
it's
just
the
prettiest
girl
on
the
committee.
So
anyway,
sir
smith,
would
you
introduce
your
our.
F
Newest
committee
member,
yes,
our
new
committee
member,
is
kipling,
keats
and
she's
here
today,
keeping
keeping
an
eye
on
everybody
there
to
make
sure
that
we
get
good
power
rates
in
kentucky
right,
kevin.
A
Okay,
next,
the
next
item
on
the
agenda
is
advanced
notification
of
natural
gas
transmission,
pipeline
location,
and
we
have
representative
dj
johnson
bob
babbage
and
are
here
to
enlighten
us.
A
I
assume
that
we
may
be
having
a
bill
just
or
some
discussion
in
in
when
the
session
comes
up.
C
A
Oh,
and
there
is
packet
in
your
and
a
draft
in
in
your
in
your
members
folders.
Thank
you.
Introduce
yourself
for
the
record.
Please
and
you're
can
proceed.
C
B
A
C
Well,
we'll
do
that
so
again.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
I
want
to
thank
the
committee
for
the
opportunity
to
come
before
you
and
discuss
some
legislation
that
we
are
preparing
to
deal
with
a
concern
about
advanced
notification
of
transmission
pipelines
and
their
locations
and
we're
going
to
work
on
the
technical
stuff.
Here.
We've
got
a
couple
of
slides
for
you,
but
we
won't
take
real
long
about
that.
C
So
more
specifically,
what
we're
here
to
talk
about
is
the
challenges
that
are
growing
as
a
new
development,
both
residential
and
commercial,
expand
out
into
areas
that
were
once
open
fields
effectively
and
which
is
where
we
put
pipeline
transmission
lines
so
that
we
can
be
away
from
developments
and
communities
but
at
the
same
time
serve
those
communities
and
as
development
grows,
we're
getting
closer
and
closer
to
those
pipelines,
and
that's
what
this
bill
is
going
to
address
is
the
notification
process.
C
When
that
happens,
I
will
say
this:
this
is
not
a
standalone
effort
in
kentucky
tennessee
last
year
passed
a
bill
very
similar,
almost
identical
to
the
language
we
have
in
the
the
bill
that
we
will
propose
unanimously.
So
it
was
not
a
a
you
know,
very,
very
contradictory
bill
and,
at
the
same
time,
ohio
is
working
on
the
same
language
that
working
on
right
now
that
we're
working
on
right
now.
So
this
is
not
just
a
local
situation.
It's
a
it's
a
regional
concern.
In
fact
it's
a
national
concern.
C
This
is
the
transmission
pipeline
map
for
the
country
itself,
and
this
shows
the
state
of
kentucky
and
if
you
look
at
this,
basically,
if
you
think
about
from
sources
down
in
central
south
parts
of
the
country,
texas,
louisiana
up
to
the
northeast,
where
there's
a
high
demand,
you
can't
get
there
without
going
through
us.
Basically
and
that's
what
these
maps
are
showing
kentucky
is
a
major
conduit
for
that
path.
C
This
shows
just
a
little
bit
more
of
a
regional
inside
the
state,
central
kentucky,
here's
an
idea
of
the
pipelines
and,
if
you
think
about
the
communities
in
those
areas,
as
we
look
at
these
maps,
you'll
see
that
these
pipelines
really
do
impact
almost
every
community
in
the
state
here
we're
looking
at
eastern
kentucky,
probably
our
most
condensed.
C
C
So
when
that
happens,
the
pipelines
are
actually
identified
by
category
by
level
and
it's
based
upon
the
population
density,
and
it
involves
safety
and
operation
and
maintenance
and
that
sort
of
things
so,
as
pipelines
were
put
in
previously,
they
were
put
in
very
low
density
areas.
But
as
expansion
is
happening,
those
little
density
areas
are
becoming
high
density
areas
and
it's
requiring
pipeline
operators
to
modify
their
pipelines,
modify
their
maintenance.
C
Their
operations
procedures
based
upon
what
level
a
category
they're
in
at
that
moment,
so
those
categories
change
their
operations,
change
and
often
what
happens
is
that
a
developer
or
a
land
owner
will
come
up
with
a
new
use
for
a
particular
piece
of
land,
that's
close
to
a
pipeline,
and
they
are
required
to
to
notify
the
pipe
line
transmission
owner
the
operator
when
they're
doing
that,
but
there's
no
real
formalized
process
for
exactly
when
that
should
happen
and
how
it
should
happen.
C
And
this
bill
basically
in
its
in
its
summation,
is
an
effort
to
identify
procedures
that
involve
the
landowners
and
the
and
the
developers
with
planning
commissions
and
the
pipeline
owners,
so
that
they're
all
going
to
talk
together
and
talk
as
early
as
possible,
so
that
we
can
identify
maybe
potential
issues
with
what
the
pipeline
is
going
to
have
to
do
to
modify
or
if
you
flip
it.
The
other
way.
C
What
developers
would
like
to
know
about
a
pipeline
that
they're
thinking
about
developing
into
that
area?
That
might
be
a
safety
concern
that
they
wouldn't
have
otherwise
known
about.
So
this
bill,
very
specifically,
is
about
communications.
It's
about
advanced
notification
as
early
as
possible
in
the
process.
C
And
I
think,
without
getting
into
the
specifics
of
the
bill
by
language,
I'm
just
going
to
say
that
that's
what
this
bill
does.
It
provides
process
for
landowners
and
developers
to
to
talk
with
planning
commissions
and
in
turn
talking
with
pipeline
owners.
It
requires
the
pipeline
owners
to
be
talking
to
the
developers,
and
all
of
this
happens
at
an
earlier
point
than
it's
happening
these
days,
and
I
will
just
defer
to
bob
at
this
point.
Is
there
anything
I
haven't
covered
about
it,
or
did
I
hit
the
big
points?
F
Sir
I'd
like
to
thank
mr
herman
for
drafting
this,
for
you
and
just
the
excellent
work
lrc
has
done
and
appreciate
the
effort
you've
made
over
the
course
of
the
last
year
to
address
this
issue.
It
is
important
and
it's
something
we
can
do
especially
learning
from
tennessee
and
now
watching
the
ohio
process
as
well.
All
three
of
these
states
are
doing
essentially
the
same
thing.
C
B
I
answered
either
what
what
if
there's
a
dispute
or
some
an
issue
arises
that
they
can't
agree
or
the
talking
doesn't
come
out
well,.
B
Good
afternoon,
everyone
aaron
thompson
with
tc
energy,
with
our
state
government
and
community
relations
department
from
greenhouse
county.
So
one
of
senator
webb's
constituents
the
way
that
the
bill
actually
works
is
there
just
is
a
provision
in
there
whenever
it's
actually
submitted
to
the
regional
planning
commission,
just
to
say
that
that
communication.
B
A
Well,
thank
you.
We
look
forward
to
hearing
this
bill.
I'm
sure
it'll
come
before
this
committee
during
the
sessions.
C
I
will
finish,
mr
chairman,
with
this,
that
this
is
a
work
in
progress.
We
think
we've
got
good
language
again,
it's
the
same
language,
that's
being
done
in
tennessee
and
ohio,
but
at
the
same
time
we're
open
to
conversations.
We
wanna
make
sure
that
it's
the
best
possible
bill
we
can
get,
it
hasn't
been
filed
yet
so,
if
there's
any
input
anyone
would
like
to
provide
to
us,
we
would
be
glad
to
hear
from
you.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
Thank
you,
members
of
the
committee.
Okay,
thank
you.
A
D
A
Members
of
the
committee-
okay,
thank
you.
I
think.
Maybe
the
committee
had
sent
you
some
questions
or
something
or
or
you
have
a
presentation
for
us,
but.
D
A
D
D
Permitting
programs
are
in
large
part,
they're,
not
paint
by
numbers,
but
they
certainly
have
rails
within
which
all
the
participants
need
to
need
to
stay
and
so
to
a
degree.
They
are.
They
are
sort
of
established
programs,
but
there
are
specific
cases
and
specific
permits
that
might
in
particular
be
more
complicated
than
others.
D
When
I
look
at
the
data
that
I
got
from
the
division
of
water,
when
we're
looking
at
energy
related
permits,
we
don't
have
any
permits
that
are
outside
of
our
review
time
frames
as
we
supply
to
your
committee,
also
in
when
it
comes
to
cold
related
water
permits.
We
do
have
one
permit.
That
is
significantly
beyond
the
review.
Time
frames,
that's
very
complicated
permit
where
there
are
a
couple
of
other
permits
that
need
to
be
requested
and
obtained
prior
to
a
water
quality
permit
being
issued.
D
It's
there's
some
details
to
that
one,
and
I
would
certainly,
if
there's
any
particular
interest
on
anyone
anyone's
behalf
in
the
on
the
committee.
I'd
be
more
than
glad
to
have
a
detailed
conversation
about
that
particular
permit.
But
of
those
several
permits
we
have,
we
have
that
one
that
exceeds
regulatory
time
frames.
We
had
one
that
was
two
days
over
regulatory
time
frames,
but
we
just
sent
out
a
public
notice
on
a
draft
permit.
D
So
you
know
lots
of
questions.
We
get
lots
of
questions.
The
reality
of
it
is
is
in
the
agency.
We
do
a
lot
of
things
other
than
issue
permits,
but
permits
by
and
large
are
seen
as
the
product
that
we
we
have
to
produce
and
we're
very
we're
very
cognizant
of
that.
D
We
work
very
hard
to
do
that
and
I
think
by
and
large,
based
on
the
information
we've
forwarded,
you
we're
we're
keeping
pace
with
our
workload
on
energy
related
coal
permits
or
energy
related
permits,
and
coal
permits,
as
we
are,
the
other
significant
amount
of
industrial
wastewater
permits
that
we
we
review.
Basically,
what
the
agency's
overall
priority
here
or
responsibility
is,
is
that
we
are
an
authorized
state
under
the
clean
water
act
epa
oversees
our
program.
D
It
also
requires
a
core
permit,
a
404
permit,
which
is
sometimes
a
very
lengthy
process
to
get
that
permit
and
a
water
quality
state
water
quality
certification
to
go
along
with
it.
So
again,
that's
pretty
much
my
understanding
of
some
of
the
questions
the
committee
may
have
had
and
I'd
be
glad
to
try
to
clarify
anything.
I
might
have
said
that's
not
clear
or
answer
any
any
related
questions.
F
F
You
know,
if
you're
going
to
build
a
house
or
a
building
or
develop
something
you've
got
a
list
of
people
you
have
to
go
through
to
do
it
and
you've
got
a
timeline
well
in
coal
and
other
industries.
Here,
a
lot
of
times,
there's
not
a
timeline,
but
here's
just
one
that
that
I
think
should
concern
most.
F
They
put
it
on
public
notice
september
2021.
Nearly
two
years
later,
this
delay
has
cost
this
particular
company
thousands
of
dollars
because
they
have
to
monitor,
have
lab
fees
the
excessive
time
that
they
have
to
do
in
the
monitoring.
That
would
not
have
been
necessary
if
the
permit
had
been
renewed
in
a
timely
manner
as
it
should
have
been.
This
is
still
not
issued,
because
now
the
epa
has
requested
an
extension
to
review
it
after
two
years.
F
These
this
group
is
ready
to
move
two
ponds
that
they
finished
in
this
area
mining
two
years
ago
and
they're
ready
to
do
their
stuff.
It's
us
that
hadn't
been
able
to
get
it
done,
but
the
dnr
will
not
approve
the
pawn
removal
request,
because
now
the
division
of
water
has
issued
has
not
issued
the
kdes
renewal,
so
the
permit
expired
on
431
2020,
and
this
is
not
a
typo.
F
The
new
kds
permit
application
that
I'm
talking
about
has
been
submitted
since
late
of
may
2021
and
all
the
fees
were
paid
in
early
june
and
there's
not
even
been
a
reviewer
assigned
to
it.
Now
this
is
the
type
of
stuff
that
causes
kentucky.
You
know
to
take
a
pause
and
wonder
you
know
why.
Now,
three
years
ago,
we
put
a
bill
in
front
of
this
committee
to
to.
F
Agency
and
others
to
give
us
a
standard
of
practice,
something
that
we
could
show
industry.
We
want
you
guys
to
do
the
job.
We
want
you
to
do
it
by
law
and
you
follow
these
steps
and
you'll
be
able
to
get
your
permit
in
a
timely
manner.
I,
as
a
business
person
and
as
a
senator,
can
I
get
my
mind
around
that
and
I've
got
other
ones
now.
F
I
know
that
they're
talking
about
a
backlog
and
can't
get
things
done,
but
I've
been
here
long
enough
to
remember
when
we
asked
the
coal
companies
to
pony
up
more
money
and
fees,
so
we
could
hire
more
workers
to
go
over
there
to
do
more
404
permits
and
my
question
is,
I
don't
have
any
coal
mines
left?
We
closed
almost
800
coal
mines
in
three
years
and
we've
got
more
employees
than
we've
ever
had
and
we're
having
a
backlog.
F
D
Senator
smith,
I'd
be
senator
smith.
I'm
sorry!
If
I
interrupted
I'll
please,
I
would
be
more
than
glad
to
have
a
conversation
with
you
about
specific
permits
that
that
you're
having
issues
and
concerns
with
I'd,
be
more
than
glad
to
do
that,
because
I
do
understand
the
necessity
for
timeliness
and
obtaining
permits
that
you
need
to
conduct
business.
F
The
change
we've
been
here
since
there
we,
you
know,
used
to
have
scopo
small
co-operators
association
because
they
had
we
had
so
many
small
coal
mines
in
there
that
they
had
a
group
and-
and
even
I
think,
had
an
office
in
lexington-
and
I
remember
this
and
then
I
remember
how
many
employees
were
over
there,
then
the
work
we
had
and
now
we're
down
to
I'm
not
sure
how
many
coal
mines
I've
got.
F
I
think
I've
got
three
active
ones
in
my
area
and
these
guys
are
fighting
there's
a
little
bit
of
a
coal
boom
going
on
right
now,
and
we've
got
a
real
opportunity
for
people
to
pick
up
jobs
that
are
good
paying
jobs
and
these
companies
can't
even
get
their
renewables
now.
I
know
there's
a
lot
of
reasons
for
this
or
that,
but
I
can
tell
you
we
need
answers.
We
need.
F
We
need
to
do
a
better
decision
process
so
that
we
are
able
to
help
companies
and
foster
a
better
environment
for
these
people
to
be
able
to
keep
these
people
employed
and
take
advantage
of
this
cold
boom
and
I've
looked
through
this
I've
been
here
for
almost
20
years,
and
this
right
here
makes
no
sense
to
me.
I've
got
a
couple
other
ones,
but
it's
a
shell
game.
A
lot
of
the
newer
members
don't
realize
the
shell
game
of
how
they
stack
these
down
and
wait
for
one
agency
to
do
it.
F
Then
you'll
drag
your
feet
on
these
other
ones.
So
if
you,
if
your
policy
really
wasn't
pro
energy,
you
can
use
this
structure
to
drag
a
company
out
to
where
you
either
break
them
or
make
it
so
expensive.
That's
not
worth
mining
the
property.
Now,
I'm
not
saying
that's
what
happens
here,
but
it's
it's!
It's
happened
in
the
past
before,
but
we
really
need.
F
This
committee
needs
to
be
very
serious
about
putting
forth
laws
that
make
this
stuff
streamlined,
that
these
companies
can
mine
and
know
that
if
they're
doing
their
stuff
and
they're
paying
their
fees
that
they
don't
have
to
wait
two
years
and
still
not
even
have
a
reviewer.
F
So
I'm
asking
you
to
to
to
help
us
come
up
with
some
kind
of
a
solution.
I'm
asking
you
to
report
back
this
committee.
We
can
talk
about
the
details
of
these
hypothetically,
but
I
would
like
for
somebody
to
explain
to
me
how
this
has
happened
several
times
and
we're
going
to
look
at
laws
that
stop
this
from
happening.
These
people
spend
a
lot
of
money
in
this
state
and
we
need
to
be
able
to
tell
them
if
you're,
a
legitimate,
good
faith
player
you're
paying
your
bills.
F
You
don't
have
the
violations,
you
can
get
your
permit
in
six
months
or
you
can
get
your
permit
in
three
months
like
other
industries.
This
has
gone
on
too
long,
and
I
really
really
encourage
this
committee
to
give
this
industry
a
timeline
like
we
do
other
industries.
Thank
you.
A
Well,
I
would
hope
that
in
some
of
the
specific
instances
that
senator
smith
and
if
I
have
some
that
we
will
reach
out
to
you
personally
and
and
and
look
at
these,
but
I
know
that
you
know
we
want
to
make
sure
that
kentucky
is
a
business
friendly
state
and
you
know
there
are
there
are
times.
A
I
know
that
I've
passed
laws
and
and
then,
for
whatever
reason
you
know,
someone
in
in
the
in
one
of
the
cabinets
would
just
kind
of
drag
those
things
out
to
the
point
where
the
law
ended
up.
Having
no
effect,
because
you
know
I
had
one
case
where
we
passed
a
law
that
would
actually
give
incentives
for
power
plants
to
build
on
a
coal
mine
site.
We
did
that
in
2000
and
and
we
applied
for
peabody
energy
platform
permit
in
kentucky
right.
A
That
law
was
passed
and
six
months
later,
they
were
running
into
more
and
more
problems,
and
six
months
later,
peabody
applied
for
a
permanent
in
illinois
to
build
a
prairie
state
power
plant
and,
of
course
the
one
in
kentucky
was
called
therabread
and
finally,
they
gave
up
on
the
on
the
building.
The
plant
in
kentucky-
and
they
built
the
one
in
illinois
and
and
that
plant
in
illinois
was
selling
power
to
two
kentucky
cities,
paducah
and
princeton.
A
D
I
mean
representative:
can
I
make
one
statement
please,
sir?
I
want
to
make
sure
that
the
committee
understands
that,
within
the
department
of
environment
protection,
we
are
a
technical
program,
there's
also
policy
and
legal
concerns
with
everything
we
do,
but
there
is
no
shape
form
or
fashion,
at
least
on
part
of
the
department
of
environmental
protection,
any
concerted
efforts
to
slow
down
or
backlog
permits.
I
know
that
there's
frustration.
I
know
that
it's
a
very
convoluted
process
and
I
I
would
really
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
hear
more
details
about
particular
permits.
A
Okay,
we
would
certainly
would
welcome
that
and
senator
smith
may
have
the
follow-up
comment.
Yeah.
F
No,
I
appreciate
the
offer
for
that,
and
I
would
I
would
encourage
you
to
maybe
look
at
where,
where
you
see
chances
for
us
to
improve
the
speed
of
deployment
for
this
you've
been
around
this
stuff,
you
can
see
how
things
can
get
lost,
how
things
can
get
one
of
the
cases
in
here
when
we
called
over
to
find
out
why
it
not
been
issued
because
it
had
been
paid.
I
I'm
not
kidding
you.
F
The
lady
told
me
that
she
didn't
realize
it
was
on
her
desk
and
she
found
it
was
on
her
desk.
It
had
been
paid
and
she'd
get
right
to
it.
It
had
been
sitting
there
for
two
months
now,
that's
that's
the
type
of
stuff
that
is
frustrating
for
us,
we're
senators
and
representatives.
We
understand
bureaucracy,
probably
as
good
as
about
anybody,
but
but
we
need
to
do
better
here.
We
need
to
have
a
a
timeline,
and
so
you
can
help
us
do
that.
You
know
the
inside
the
industry.
F
We
know
the
legislative
process
between
the
two
of
us.
We
ought
to
be
able
to
tell
these
people.
You
can
get
this
in
30
days
and
if
you
can't,
we
should
be
able
to
quantify
why
they
can't,
but
it
would
help
the
members
if
you
want
to
give
us
a
timeline
or
how
it
lays
out
to
help
all
the
members
understand
the
processes
that
it
goes
through.
F
We
welcome
you
to
bring
that
to
us
for
for
our
next
meeting
or
the
very
first
meeting
we
have
as
the
general
assembly
convenes,
but
we
have
got
to
come
up
with
some
formula
that
makes
sense
in
this
industry
in
our
lifetime.
There's
not
been
one
that
I
can
find,
but
I
think
they
deserve
it,
just
like
the
construction
industry
or
the
automobile
industry
or
anybody
else.
We
need
to
give
this
timeline
some
numbers,
but
thank
you
and
I
welcome
your
input
on
that.
F
D
A
A
A
So
if
anybody
wants
to
go
online
and
look
at
that,
it
doesn't
require
any
access
on
this
committee
and
then
there
are
some
administrative
regulations.
Most
of
these,
I
think
all
of
them
apply
to
fish
and
wildlife.
A
A
lot
of
them
are
just
renewals
that
they
have
to
do
so
often,
if
they
don't
renew
them
these
regulations,
then
they,
then
they-
I
guess
sunset
or
whatever
some
have
had
some
minor
corrections,
the
one
that
is
probably
the
one
that
is
a
little
bit
bigger,
is
kr
zero,
zero
one
colon
one,
five,
two
two
and
that's
a
proposed
resolution
talking
about
the
harvest
and
cell
of
asian
carp
and
for
most
of
you
in
west
kentucky
know.
A
Asian
carp
is
a
really
serious
problem,
and
so
anyway,
these
these
don't
require
any
actions.
But
I
wanted
to
make
the
members
aware
that
these
are
on
the
committee
and
and
will
go
into
effect
today.
So
any
questions
on
any
of
them
sing.
None!
Okay,
I
think.
Finally,
before
we
adjourn
representative
wesley,
I
think
wants
to
make
some
comments
to
the
committee.
Yes,.
B
Sir,
thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I
would
like
to
address
someone
that's
here
right
now
and
I
believe
in
honoring
people,
and
so
we
have
a
special
person,
that's
here
today
and
we
would
just
like
to
address
and
how
proud
we
are
of
them
and
and
the
service
that
they
have
gave
not
only
on
this
committee
but
also
their
district.
B
I
have
a
little
list
that
I'd
like
to
read,
mr
chairman.
If
that's
all
right
sure
this
person
there
their
insurance
agent,
they
belong
to
the
providence
baptist
church.
They
used
to
be
the
mayor
in
their
city,
they've,
been
on
this
council
for
26
years
or
as
a
representative
I
should
say-
and
I'm
not
going
to
read
all
this
because
it's
like
a
book
what
they
have
in
their
life
of
their
past
history,
but
we
have
a
small
gift
that
we
would
just
like
to
show
our
appreciation
to
them.
B
B
So
this
is,
this
is
just
a
small
gift
that
we
got
you,
and
so
we
just
wanted
to
show
our
appreciation
to
you
and
thank
you.
A
Thank
you.
Thank
you
so
much
I
wow
I'm
kind
of
speechless.
I
think
that's
why
you
did
that
so
you'd.
Finally
catch
me
speechless,
but
thank
you.
I
appreciate
that
so
very
much
all
right
appreciate
it
and
I'll
open
it
in
a
minute.
Oh,
but
we
all
have.
We
have
something
else.
I
want
to
announce
today
too,
and
it's
kind
of
kind
of
I'm
kind
of
sad.
A
This
person
has
worked
for
this
committee
for
a
long
time
has
done
a
great
job
as
one
as
a
csa,
and
most
of
you
know,
janine
coy.
She,
I
think,
is
leaving
us
and
she's
going
to
go
to
the
and
be
the
csa
of
the
economic
development
committee.
So
we
are
so
sorry
that
you're
going
to
be
leaving
us,
but
I'm
on
that
other
committee,
so
I'm
I'm
sure
I'll
look
forward
to
working
with
you
there.
So,
let's
give
that's
right,
so
you
can't
get
away.
That's
right.
A
B
No
sir,
I
would
like
to
say
that
chairman
has
been
a
state
representative
for
26
years.
I
believe
yeah
is
that
correct,
yeah.