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From YouTube: Interim Joint Committee on Licensing, Occupations, and Administrative Regulations (7-31-23)
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A
July
meeting
before
we
call
roll
or
anything
else,
first
person
I'd
like
to
welcome
back
Brice,
haven't
been
down
here
with
us
and
we're
just
thrilled
to
have
you
back
in
the
chair
here
and
just
welcoming
back
everybody.
C
D
E
A
Here:
okay:
let's
start
off
with
approval
of
the
June
22nd
meeting
minutes,
it's
our
motion.
Second,
we
have
a
motion.
A
second
all,
those
in
favor
signify
by
saying
aye
motion
carries
minutes
are
approved.
Let's
get
right
into
it,
we're
going
to
start
off
with
alcohol
delivery
and
license
quota,
so
miss
digletts.
If
you'll
approach
the
table
and
you
and
your
guest
kid
please
introduce
yourself
for
the
record
and
the
floor
is
yours.
F
F
Thank
you
so
much
for
the
opportunity
to
speak
with
you
today.
We,
our
first
issue
on
the
agenda,
is
the
issue
of
alcohol
delivery
by
retailers.
F
We
wanted
to
bring
this
forth
because
twofold
as
you
can
imagine,
alcohol
delivery
proliferated
during
the
global
pandemic.
As
I
know,
you're
aware,
since
cocktails
to
go,
was
passed
in
2021
and
through
those
experiences.
What
we
have
learned
and
some
of
the
concerns
that
have
been
raised
by
retailers,
along
with
their
delivery
Partners
is
the
issue
of
a
physical
display
of
signage
on
the
outside
of
the
vehicle,
along
with
the
licensees
license
number,
and
so
it
is
a
two-fold
concern.
F
One
is
retailers,
raise
the
concern
about
a
safety
issue
for
the
driver,
sort
of
acknowledging
that
there's
alcohol
in
this
vehicle,
and
does
that
increase
the
likelihood
of
theft
and,
secondly,
the
issue
of
the
logistics
of
how
retailers
are
utilizing
delivery,
Partners
to
deliver
alcohol
to
the
consumer,
and
so
when
a
third
party
delivery
driver
is
used
many
times.
F
Those
folks
strive
for
multiple
licensees
and
the
requirement
that
they
physically
display
the
licensing
name
and
the
license
number
becomes
complicated
in
the
sense
that
they
are
constantly
changing
those
signs
and
where
they
have
to
be
located
on
the
vehicle
for
the
license
number.
It
requires
a
decal
physically
stuck
to
the
car,
and
so
we
are
here
to
request
some
statutory
changes
and
we
are
working
with.
We
want
to
work
with
you
and
all
of
our
alcohol
Partners
to
ensure
that
we
are
preparing
the
best
consensus
for
a
statute.
F
We
do
have
a
precedent
for
not
requiring
signage
provided
to
you
in
your
packet
is
a
KRS
to.
If
you
look
at
the
very
last
page,
243.081
subsection,
4
States.
This
is
the
allowing
restaurants
and
their
delivery
Partners
to
deliver
cocktails
to
go
essentially
is
I,
think
we
sort
of
informally
called
the
statute,
and
it
just
says,
for
the
purposes
of
this
section,
vehicles
used
for
delivery
shall
be
exempt
from
displaying
the
name
and
license
number
of
the
retail
licensees
selling
the
alcoholic
beverages
being
delivered.
F
So
I
just
wanted
to
provide
that.
As
an
example,
I
know
that
you
like
us
to
have
these
issues
vetted,
and
so
a
couple
of
things
and
I'm
going
to
let
Ahmed
speak
about
the
ability
to
digitally
display
a
license
within
the
vehicle
by
the
driver
in
a
moment,
but
we
have
talked
to
others
in
the
alcohol
industry
and
some
of
the
issues
that
have
been
raised.
Potentially
they
are
ensuring
a
chain
of
custody,
currently
delivery.
F
Network
companies
are
getting
a
transporter's
license,
so
they
should
be
and
that
chain
of
custody
should
be
insured,
but
if
there
is
another
way
to
work
that
out
we're
more
than
happy
to
work
on
that,
and
also
the
issue
of
ensuring
that
the
IDs
are
checked.
Of
course,
the
statute
says
you
can't
sell
alcohol
to
anyone
under
the
age
of
21
and
that
the
packages
have
to
be
marked
that
their
alcohol
and
over
the
age
of
21
by
according
to
the
transporter's
license,
and
so
we
see
that
as
the
law
now.
G
Too
kind,
thank
you
Shannon,
good
morning,
all
again,
my
name
is
Ahmed
young
and
I'm
honored
to
be
here
with
you
this
morning.
Three
words
I
want
to
make
sure
that
I
drill
home
this
morning,
Safe,
secure
and
transparent.
That
is
our
top
priority
to
ensure
that
when
our
drivers
are
in
the
streets,
delivering
food
delivering
groceries,
they're
doing
it
safely
securely
and
in
a
transparent
way,
that
is
in
accordance
with
the
laws
of
the
Commonwealth
of
Kentucky.
G
That
is
our
priority,
and
our
goal
is
to
ensure
that
we're
aligning
with
those
priorities
and
executing
with
excellence,
and
this
recommendation
that
we're
bringing
forth
this
morning
centers
around
those
three
pillars
and
ultimately,
when
it
comes
to
delivery
of
alcohol,
we
want
to
make
sure
that
a
we're
ensuring
that
it's
going
to
the
right
place
by
the
right
people,
that
is
in
accordance
with
the
law
of
this
Commonwealth
and
also
thinking
through
how
do
we
ultimately
execute
with
Fidelity.
G
A
F
Thank
you
very
much
and
I
appreciate
the
chairman
allowing
us
to
be
a
late
addition
on
this
issue.
As
it
has
been
a
developing
issue
for
retailers
in
Lexington,
we
have
a
situation
where
there
are
not
a
adequate
number
of
quota
retail
package
licenses
for
those
who
have
applied
for
licenses.
F
I
know
that
a
quota
retail
package
issue
can
be
a
sensitive
one.
I
want
to
be
clear
that
we
are
not
here
to
request
that
the
quota
be
removed
in
statute,
but
we
did
provide
you
with
a
list
of
the
licensees
in
Lexington
to
show
you
that,
as
the
ability
for
more
retailers,
restaurants
and
other
entities
to
get
a
quota
retail
package
license
has
grown.
F
It's
put
more
Demand
on
the
need
for
quota
retail
package
licenses,
and
so
there
are
many
questions
that
we've
had
to
ask
very
quickly
about
this
situation
and
in
your
packet
we
have
provided
you.
It
is
the
one
pager
that
thank
you
that
talks
about.
If
you
flip
over
to
krs-241069.
F
There
is
a
process
in
place,
so
we
thought
where
a
city
could
request
an
increase
in
the
number
of
quota
retail
package
licenses
if
certain
conditions
allowed.
Unfortunately,
what
we
did
not
understand
but
have
come
to
learn
through
working
with
the
department
for
Alcoholic
Beverage
Control,
is
that
the
only
cities
with
quotas
are
those
that
are
located
in
dry
counties
and
so
Lexington,
because
it
is
merged
government
is
sort
of
in
this
quandary.
F
We
want
to
be
clear,
though,
that,
and
so
we
talked
with
the
Kentucky
League
of
cities,
who
is
amenable
and
willing
to
work
with
us
to
amend
that
part
of
the
statute
to
allow
for
any
City,
County
or
merged
government,
to
increase
to
request
an
increase
in
the
quota
retail
licenses.
F
We
do
think
we
are
very
supportive
of
all
of
those
entities
being
able
to
expand
their
opportunities
to
retail.
Many
of
them
are
our
members,
and
so
we
want
to
continue
to
push
for
opportunities
to
retail.
We
also
see
the
number
of
2300
at
one
license
per
2300
was
established
based
on
what
we
think
of
as
traditional
quota
retail
package
licensees.
F
We
know
that
Lexington
is
going
to
get
more
retailers
who
are
going
to
want
these
licenses,
and
so
we
are
looking.
We
also
know
that
this
is
not
going
to
be
a
problem
that
is
just
unique
to
the
City
of
Lexington,
and
we
know
that,
and
this
demand
is
because
of
we've
got
Barrel
picks
and
the
ability
for
flower
shops
to
do
flowers
and
champagne
and
again
these
are
all
excellent
opportunities
that
we
want
to
protect.
F
I
think
you
know
we
probably
gave
a
few
panic
attacks
when
they
saw
a
quota
retail
package
license
on
the
agenda,
but
we
did
speak
with
them
and
we've
raised
the
promise
that
we
would
work
with
the
legislature
and
we
would
work
with
all
parties
to
ensure
that
we
could
come
to
a
resolution,
and
so
we
have
begun
that
process,
and
that
is
the
issue.
H
Mr
chairman
looks
like
to
me
a
common
sense
approach
to
this
would
be
this
is
package
retail
license
now
think
of
a
package
retail
license,
I,
think
of
a
liquor
store
or
a
store
that
the
primary
function
is
to
sell
alcohol.
We
should
not.
We
should
redefine
what
what
the
like
a
flower
shop
who's,
getting
a
package
license.
We
should
redefine
what
a
package
license
is
and
who
can
get
them.
It
needs
to
be
somebody.
H
That's
their
primary
business
is
to
sell
alcohol,
and
somebody
else
there's
other
licenses
available
to
these
folks
and
if
there's
not,
we
need
to
create
one,
but
we
should
not
do
away
with
our
our
quota
by
somebody
who's
really
not
in
the
alcohol
business.
It's
just
a
it's
just
a
sideline.
That
would
be.
That
would
be
a
common
sense
approach
that
wouldn't
wouldn't
change
a
whole
lot
of
things
so,
and
that
would
help
Lexington
and
probably
some
other
areas
also.
F
We
agree
with
you
that
there
are
a
multitude
of
ways
to
correct
this.
That
would
be
a
very
simple
one,
a
de
minimis
license
for
those
folks
where
it
is
an
ancillary
business
that
these
numbers
were
created
for,
as
you
said,
traditional
retail
package,
what
we
think
of
as
a
liquor
store,
and
so,
if
that
is
the
road,
the
general
assembly
wants
to
go
down
along
with
I
think
the
cities
would
like
to
fix
the
the
city
requesting
statute,
we're
open
to
all
options.
H
Yes,
thank
you
and
I.
Don't
remember
the
bill
number
of
Paul
hornback's
bill
that
allowed
this
very
thing
for
those
who
are
not
in
that's
not
their
primary
business,
to
allow
them
to
to
sell
alcohol
or
bourbon
whatnot.
So
there's
a
solution.
We
just
need
to
get
it
get
taken.
Care
of.
Thank
you.
Mr
chairman
thank.
A
You
any
other
questions.
Okay,
thanks
for
your
testimony
this
morning.
Thank
you,
sir,
for
being
here
Shannon
and
let's
move
on
we're
going
to
go
to
land
surveyors,
while
they're
working
their
way
up
to
the
table.
We
do
have
groups
to
talk
on
this
as
well.
After
the
initial
speakers.
Just
a
quick
rehash
bill
was
filed
last
year
anyway,
through
different
through
different
reasons.
We
we
put
it
aside
where
we
hit
control
to
lead
on
it,
we're
starting
over
so
we're
going
to
talk
about
land
surveyors
and
seeming
shortage.
A
J
A
K
I
I
A
brief
history
of
the
four-year
degree
requirement
in
the
early
2000s,
the
board
of
licensure,
along
with
the
Kentucky
Association
of
professional
surveyors,
the
Kentucky
Society
of
Professional
Engineers
and
the
American
Council
of
engineering
companies
began
the
process
of
trying
to
move
away
from
an
experience.
Only
route
to
becoming
a
surveyor
research
was
done
by
those
groups
and
a
study
was
conducted
and
there
was
a
lot
of
debate
in
2005
by
another
Act
of
the
general
assembly.
I
I
I
Today
we
have
1442
licensed
surveyors:
that's
an
almost
40
percent
increase
from
20
2005
and
a
66
percent
increase
since
2011.,
but
we
still
do
need
more
license
surveyors
in
the
state.
So
far
this
year,
Kentucky
has
34
individuals
registered
to
take
the
first
of
the
national
surveying
exams.
It's
called
the
fundamentals
of
surveying
and
we
have
24
individuals
registered
to
take
the
principles
and
practice
of
surveying
exam.
I
A
two-year
degree
focuses
on
training
practitioners
for
an
industry
standard
and
not
much
more
because
of
the
two-year
constraint.
A
four-year
degree
program
prepares
graduates
for
professional
licensure
in
a
much
broader
way.
The
university
experience
includes
much
deeper
treatment
of
the
soft
skills
like
communication,
professional
responsibility
and
ethics,
societal
awareness,
business
and
financial
consequences
of
land
surveying
practice
and
in
the
awareness
for
the
need
of
lifelong
learning.
I
Our
Pass
rates
on
both
the
national
fundamentals
and
principles
and
practice
surveying
exams
have
more
than
doubled
prior
to
the
degree
requirement
we
had
Pass
rates
in
Kentucky
in
the
30
to
40
percent
pass
range.
We
currently
have
Pass
rates
in
the
70
to
80
percent
pass
rate.
That's
more
than
a
doubling.
I
A
You,
okay
in
just
a
second
I'm,
going
to
ask
John
to
come
up.
I
know
he's
signed
up
to
speak
as
well
on
this
and
what
kicked
this
all
off?
If
you're,
a
farmer,
Bourbon,
County
and
you're,
going
to
get
a
fence
line,
you
know
build
a
new
fence
and
you
want
to
have
it
surveyed,
you're,
looking
at
quite
a
long,
wait
and
quite
expensive
to
get
that
done,
and
that's
kind
of
what
spurred
this-
and
it's
not
just
me,
there's
plenty
of
people
that
can
speak
to
this.
L
Good
morning,
Mr
chairman
good
morning,
committee
members,
I'm
John
Mark
hack,
I'm,
the
chief
strategy
officer
with
Thoroughbred
and
engineering
design
and
construction
management
firm
based
in
Lexington.
We
have
offices
in
Shelbyville
and
London
as
well.
I
want
to
start
by
saying
that
as
an
employer
of
Professional
Land
Surveyors,
we
have
no
interest
in
anything
that
would
denigrate
the
profession.
L
We
are
interested
in
flexibility
in
land
survey
or
licensure
because
of
the
lack
of
professionals
entering
the
the
licensure
process
and
I
want
to
just
quickly
tell
you
what
steps
we've
taken
in
the
recent
past
to
to
address
our
concerns
in
November
of
2021.
We
met
with
the
president
before
we
met
with
anybody
else.
We
met
with
the
president
of
the
Kentucky
Association
of
professional
surveyors
to
raise
our
concerns
to
him
and
offered
our
services
and
helping
to
Market
entry
into
the
profession
in
September
of
2022.
L
L
We
had
an
interim
committee
meeting
that
many
of
you
will
recall
in
2022
to
get
the
conversation
going
and,
in
the
absence
of
other
ideas,
to
expand
what
is
truly
a
noble
and
necessary
profession.
Just
as
an
aside,
nothing
can
happen
in
Land
Development.
Without
the
contributions
of
professional
surveyors.
L
Farm
surveys
can't
happen.
Fencing
in
backyards
for
dogs
can't
happen.
Large-Scale
Economic
Development
projects
can't
happen.
This
is
a
critical
profession
to
the
future
of
the
Commonwealth,
but
in
the
absence
of
other
ideas,
we
pressed
on
with
our
idea
to
offer
an
attorney
an
alternative
path
to
licensure,
so
that
those
students
who
are
either
not
interested
in
a
four-year
college
degree
or
simply
find
it
unaffordable,
could
have
a
pathway
to
entering
the
profession.
L
We
worked
with
representative
Wade
Williams
in
the
2023
session
and
representative
Williams
bill
passed
out
of
the
house,
licensing
and
occupations
committee
on
an
18-0
vote,
and
we
didn't
hear
any
issues
during
that
Committee
hearing
and
I
just
want
to
reiterate
that
what
we
were
proposing
and
what
we
support
is
an
option,
an
additional
pathway,
not
not
not
one
that
would
replace
the
current
pathway
but
an
option
for
young
women
and
men
who
have
an
interest
in
this
Noble
profession
to
enter
into
it
without
the
what
many
see
as
a
burden
of
a
four-year
college
degree.
L
Again,
we
have
no
interest
in
doing
anything
but
promoting
the
the
profession
and-
and
we
look
forward
to
working
with
you,
chairman
cook
and
and
with
Mr
Elliott
Mr
Pedigo
and
the
State
Board,
as
we
move
forward.
Thank.
C
Yes,
yes,
you
say
that
that
why
do
you
need
to
pass
with
a
two-year
or
four-year
or
eight
year
sure
the
pass
rate
would
be
better.
The
longer
you
go
to
school,
but
why
is
there
a
need
for
a
four-year
and
how
about
the
number
that
are
passing?
Another
thing
is:
what
does
a
surveyor
need?
Why
does
a
surveyor
need
soft
skills
Etc
if
they
can
properly
survey
and
produce
a
report.
K
I
can
answer
that
question
I
think
the
education
provides
for
competent
professional,
it
does
provide
for
technical
abilities,
and
any
industry
now
has
a
very
specific
technical
knowledge
base.
Surveying
is
not
the
same
as
20
years
ago,
when
I
started
in
the
industry.
Our
equipment
that
we're
using
now
is
precise.
All
of
it
is
run
by
software
and
Hardware
that
provides
for
precise
measurement
and
not
that
two-year
degree.
Student
could
understand
and
learn
that,
but
it
goes
beyond
just
a
typical
skills.
Training.
K
The
understanding
and
the
technical
knowledge
in
my
opinion
needs
to
be
there
in
a
four-year
degree,
also
the
business
competency,
so
understanding
professional
Contracting,
so
writing
contracts,
the
need
for
liability
insurance,
and
we
have
a
lot
of
surveyors
in
Kentucky.
Now
that
are
one-man,
surveying
licensees
that
are
doing,
surveys
may
not
have
a
contract
set,
may
not
be
insured
for
their
work
and
for
our
new
surveyors
joining
the
professionalism
they
need
to
know.
This
is
how
it
is
to
be
a
professional
surveyor
within.
C
C
L
What
I
will
say
and
are
you
professional
and
Mr
Elliot
I'm,
sorry,
but
what
I
will
say
is
that
the
the
legislative
alternative
that
we
offered
in
the
2023
session
included
a
six-year
apprenticeship
in
addition
to
the
two-year
College
requirement
so
to
the
extent
that
graduates
are
able
to
work
under
qualified
professional
land
servers.
Like
these
three
gentlemen,
it
would
seem
to
me
that
the
kind
of
skill
sets
that
that
Mr
shinaberry
just
mentioned
could
be
attainable
in
the
context
of
that
apprenticeship,
by
working
with
a
professional
license
surveyors
you.
A
Got
a
follow-up
Center
name
it.
You
finished,
you're,
good!
Okay,
all
right!
Thank
you!
Let's
go
representative
Dixon!
Yes,.
M
But
a
more
direct
is:
can
you
kind
of
explain
to
us
in
the
committee
how,
if
an
individual
say
a
high
school
student,
comes
out
of
high
school
and
starts
working
for
a
survey
or
a
construction
company
that
has
surveyors
and
works
under
them
in
a
type
of
apprenticeship
that
the
gentleman
just
stated
gaining
those
professional
skills,
those
soft
skills,
those
skills
that
sometimes
colleges
can't
provide
that
Real
World
experience
that
they
get
with
that
professional
surveyor.
Then
taking
that
course
along
the
way
and
then
being
able
to
pass
the
test.
M
I
If
I
could,
if
I
could
address
it,
representative
Dixon
currently
all
surveyors
have
to
have
the
four-year
degree,
and
they
also
have
to
have
four
years
of
experience
or
an
apprenticeship
under
a
licensed
surveyor
I
became
licensed
at
a
time
where
a
degree
was
not
required.
I
actually
went
back
later
and
obtained
my
degree
after
I
had
my
license.
I
It
depends
on
who
you're
working
for
and
what
their
experience
is,
with
the
four-year
degree
you're
going
to
get
that
base
knowledge,
the
requirements
for
the
public,
speaking
Communications
business
and
just
to
address
Senator
nemus's
question
earlier
for
19
years,
I
was
the
board
investigator
and
almost
every
one
of
the
board's
complaints
was
against
licensed
Land
Surveyors
and
it
rarely
came
down
to
an
issue
of
whether
they
could
survey
properly
or
not.
It
was
how
they
handled
their
business
with
their
clients
or
their
neighbors,
the
clients
Neighbors
billing,
and
things
like
that.
I
M
Just
just
a
quick
follow-up,
I
kind
of
go
with
that
with
with
chairman
cook,
you
know
it
I
think
I,
think
where
you,
where
you
find
yourself
throughout
your
career
and
and
and
those
things
you
know,
college
is
a
great
thing
and
and
I
think
that
sometimes
that
that
that
knowledge,
you
you
obtain
from
that
Real
World
Experience,
can
pay
off
and
I
kind
of
rebuttal.
That
comment
too
I'm
an
individual
who
doesn't
have
a
four-year
degree,
but
but
I
have
found
myself
sitting
in
this
seat
so.
A
All
right,
let's
go
Senator
Higdon.
H
Thank
you,
Mr,
chairman
and
I
guess,
usually,
when
we
run
into
these
type
of
issues,
I'll
like
to
ask
what
are
the,
what
what
do
they
do?
What's
the
requirements
in
Tennessee,
Indiana
Ohio,
are
they
the
are
they
the
same
or
they
allow
for
a
two-year
degree
for
those
for
those
people
in
those
states
to
practice.
I
So
Senator
hignton,
currently
Illinois,
Indiana
and
Ohio
require
a
four-year
degree.
Missouri
does,
but
their
degree
has
to
be
specific
to
a
Missouri
school
I.
Don't
understand
that
West
Virginia
does
not
no
degree.
It's
just
experience
and
Tennessee
is
currently
at
an
experience
only
route.
They
had
a
degree
requirement.
They
dropped
back
for
a
few
years
and
they're
coming
back
to
the
degree.
Maybe
this
year
or
next
year.
I
O
Thank
you.
Most
of
my
question
has
been
addressed.
I
just
want
to
follow
up
on
a
couple
of
issues.
First
of
all,
Don
good
to
see
you
and
it's
been
a
while.
Yes,
sir,
and
kind
of
following
up
on
this,
inter
and
on
this
apprenticeship
situation,
there
have
been
a
lot
of
changes
in
the
industry
over
the
years
from
how
we
go
about
walking
the
field
with
pins
and
everything
to
to
some
of
the
technology
used.
Now.
K
I
can
speak
to
that.
Thank
you
for
the
question.
Senator
Howell
in
my
own
personal
practice,
I
have
three
lsits:
that's
the
land,
surveyor
and
training
that
have
worked
for
me
and
gained
their
land
survey
or
in
training
portion
of
their
licensure
they're
moving
on
to
gain
their
license
here
in
the
next
couple
of
years.
We
are
teaching
them
and
mentoring
them
in
all
the
different
aspects,
but
also
providing
the
training
for
the
new
technology.
K
So
apprenticeship
is
happening
within
surveyors
that
see
it
as
a
priority
for
hiring
students
that
are
interested
in
professional
licensure
track.
We
also
provide
for
tuition
assistance,
so
I
have
three
students
currently
that
are
taking
classes,
they're,
not
lsits,
yet,
but
they're
working
right
now,
some
of
their
work
experience
goes
toward
their
licensure
need
and
they're
going
back
to
get
the
classes.
K
O
Forgive
me
I
think
you
took
one
of
you
touched
on
this
earlier
about
the
public
speaking,
do
you
actually
have
classes
in
a
four-year
degree
program
that
public
speaking
or
speaking,
to
Planning
and
Zoning
105,
or
something
like
that,
and
you
know
one
of
the
things
that
I
think
frustrate
a
lot
of
us?
Is
we
spend
all
this
time
in
college
and
the
expense
that
it
goes
and
there
isn't
a
lot
of
real
world
application
preparation
do
y'all?
Have
you
telling
me
that
you
actually
have
classes
like
that.
I
I
O
A
A
Okay,
we're
gonna
go,
we
got
three
more
signed
up
to
speak
and
then
we're
gonna
move
on.
So
let's
go.
We
got
representative
Meredith,
Senator,
Douglas
and
then
representative
bratcher,
so
representative,
Meredith.
P
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
much
like
representative
cook,
the
chair
of
this
committee
said
I'm
from
one
of
those
counties
where
it's
pretty
hard
to
get
a
land
surveyor.
It
takes
generally
six
to
eight
weeks
at
the
shortest
time
period,
from
the
the
initial
discussion
Contracting
to
actually
get
Services
provided
to
to
our
customers
and
those
those
communities
like
that
and
I
want
to
be
clear,
and
this
is
a
clarification
question.
So
you're
saying
that
in
the
two-year
and
the
four-year
degree,
the
core
competency
for
surveying
is
the
same
same
curriculum.
I
Yeah,
so
representative
Kentucky
only
requires
24
hours
in
the
core
surveying
courses,
most
of
the
four-year
degree
graduates
will
have
30
plus
hours
in
surveying,
but
a
two-year
program
could
have
24
or
our
minimum
requirement.
Okay,.
F
N
I
P
I
would
just
respond.
We
had
the
problem
long
before
the
pandemic.
We
still
have
the
problem
after
the
pandemic.
Obviously
there
was
probably
a
little
bit
of
a
blip
on
the
radar
that
it
was
a
little
bit
more
difficult
during
that
time,
but
it
wasn't
directly
related
to
the
pandemic.
It
was.
It
was
going
on
long
before
that,
but
I
go
back
to
the
whole.
P
And
so,
if
we're
talking
about
the
Core
Curriculum
being
relatively
the
same,
there
are
business
people
every
day
that
start
a
business
that
don't
necessarily
know
exactly
how
to
read
a
contract
or
how
to
write
one.
There
are
people
every
day
that
don't
know
how
to
speak
in
front
of
a
different
group,
and
we
allow
for
that.
So
I
just
think
in
a
profession
where
we
know
there's
a
shortage
of
folks
out
there
and
we
have
long
wait
times
to
serve
our
constituents
and
that
that
profession,
I
think
we
have
to
look
at
alternative
methods.
Q
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
I,
understand
that
there
is
pressure
to
have
more
access
to
save
surveyors
that's
this
is
this
is
not
my
my
area,
I'm,
a
physician,
so
I,
but
I
do
understand.
The
same
thing
occurs
in
medicine
number
one
number,
two
and
I
do
have
a
question.
I'll
get
to
I.
Understand
that
we're
we're
trying
to
sort
of
discern
whether
or
not
we're
some
people
would
argue
technicians
versus
someone
who's
doing
a
standardized.
Q
R
Thank
you,
chairman
cook,
I,
just
think
it's
a
very
challenging
time
to
say
a
four-year
degree
is
your
default.
You
know
Pathways
credentials
experience
so
I,
actually
like
the
bill,
because
it
presented
some
flexibility.
Achieving
the
license.
I
can't
speak
to
it,
how
good
it
was
as
a
surveyor
or
someone
in
the
surveying
business,
but
I
would
like
to
hear
something
other
than
just,
but
you
need
a
four-year
degree.
R
You
need
a
four-year
degree,
because
I
think
it's
a
wonderful
opportunity
for
you
to
come
up
with
a
different
kind
of
pathway
or
a
hybrid
Pathway,
to
get
some
more
surveyors
out
into
the
field.
So
just
a
statement,
not
a
question.
Thank.
A
You
I
think
that's
a
good
statement
to
wrap
this
up.
So,
thank
you,
gentlemen,
appreciate
you
being
here.
We've
got
a
lot
of
work
to
do
on
this.
Thank
you.
Okay.
Let's
move
on
to
veterinarian
Allied
Health
Senator
Webb.
If
you'll
bring
your
guest
up
and
get
seated.
Last
year
we
passed
a
Veterinary,
we
updated
made
the
modern
Veterinary
Practice
Act,
pretty
hefty
undertaking
took
a
lot
of
work
to
get
that
through
part
of
the
prop
part
of
what
was
not
addressed
in.
That
was
our
Allied
professionals.
A
So
this
deals
not
only
equine
dentist,
but
you
can
include
chiropractors,
massage
therapists
Etc,
and
we
had
the
promise
that
we
were
going
to
keep
investigating,
keep
working
with
our
Allied
health
professionals
and
Senator
Webb.
Here
was
with
one
of
them,
which
is
the
equine
dental,
and
if
you
could
introduce
yourself
your
wreck
for
the
record
and
all
your
guests
and
we'll
let
you
begin,
and
we
do
have
some
people
here
to
follow
up.
So
thank
you.
S
And
I'm
Wayne
Needham
I'm
from
Canyon
Texas
presidential
coined
industry,
sorry
and
I
have
the
equine
dental
school
of
Texas
I,
also
run
and
lecture
there
correct.
D
Floor
is
yours.
Thank
you.
I
also
have
folks
that
are
here
on
Walter
Moskowitz
from
Louisville
Jim
coaster
from
Bowling
Green,
Bart
Sissel
from
Eminence,
Haley
Mullins
from
Corbin,
and
a
couple
other
folks
trickled
in
from
paint
lick
and
and
and
from
Lawrenceburg,
so
we're
we're
well
represented
with
the
demographic
and
I
guess
representative
Flannery
I'm,
representing
Far
East
Kentucky.
D
So
we
we're
going
to
talk
about
a
subject
matter
that
where
humankind
has
been
practicing
animal
husbandry
for
thousands
of
years
with
their
equine
partners
and
that's
equine
dentistry
and
I've,
told
my
guests
that
we've
got
some
pretty
good
horsemen
on
this
panel
and
people
who
certainly
are
familiar
with
the
subject
matter.
But
and
as
previously
mentioned,
you
know,
we
worked
really
hard
on
the
veterinary
modernization
act.
D
Some
of
those
folks
are
here
and
you'll
be
hearing
from
them,
but
this
was
a
component
that
didn't
need
extra
attention
and
we're
trying
to
get
the
stakeholders
together
and
come
up
with
a
common
sense
solution
that
doesn't
Prejudice
any
sector
from
high-end
racehorses
to
to
the
trail
horse
or
even
the
wild
herds
that
are
running
in
East
and
West
Kentucky,
because
they
need
and
get
these
Services
too.
D
So
my
job
is
to
protect
the
horse
and
to
make
Health,
Care,
accessible
and
and
rational,
and
you
know
I've
owned
a
few
myself
in
the
day
and
I've
I've
ever
had
a
professional.
Do
my
work
unless
there's
a
problem
and
then
the
people
who
float
my
horse's
teeth
or
my
trainers
or
myself
will
contact
a
veterinarian.
So
this
is
an
animal
husbandry
issue
with
me
and
at
this
time
we've
got
all
these
folks
here
for
questions
and
participation
and
I'm
gonna.
Let
well
I.
Think
Wayne
has
a
presentation
for
y'all.
S
So
thank
you
for
having
me
committee,
chair
and
and
I
helped
with
the
a
lot
of
the
legislative
work
in
Texas
and
so
yeah.
This
environment
makes
me
very
nervous
still
so
forgive
me
if
I
am
but
I
was
asked
to
kind
of
give,
like
maybe
my
sales
pitch
or
an
introduction
of
absolutely
why
horses
need
equine
Dentistry,
so
I'm
going
to
go
through
that
process
with
you.
S
S
They
saw
that
on
Egyptian
on
the
caves
and
stuff,
so
our
our
business,
our
industry
actually
is
is
is
like
4
000
years
old
at
his
latest
date
and
also
another
kind
of
intriguing
thing
is
there
was
books
written
about
our
profession,
the
Simons
of
Athens,
Athens
and
Aristotle,
which
is
kind
of
intriguing
to
me,
wrote
about
us
in
430
and
333
BC,
so
it's
actually
older
than
the
Old
Testament
of
our
Bible,
which
is
kind
of
a
weird.
S
A
weird
thing
to
look
at
this
is
evidence
that
shows
that
there
was
bitware
and
stuff,
and
so
this
is
in
4000
BC,
just
a
little
bit
of
History
I'd
like
to
give
to
you
so
three
to
four
thousand
years
ago,
our
our
business
started
a
couple
of
other
facts
that
we
have
vet
school
started
in
Lyon
France
in
1762
and
then
here
in
the
youthful
United
States
in
1903.
That
was
about
the
first
time
that
our
at
Iowa
State
that
we
had
four
your
vet
school.
S
So
in
1903
about
120
years
ago,
vet
school
started.
So
our
industry
goes
further
past
that
just
kind
of
and
it's
not
something
that
we
like.
We
strictly
promote
the
networking
with
veterinarians
and
we'll
get
to
that
later
in
this
little
this
little
bit,
but
I
just
wanted
to
throw
that
in
as
a
side
note,
I
want
to
go
over
reasons.
S
Why
dentistry
and
that's
the
kind
of
stuff
that'll
get
into
some
better,
looking
pictures
and
different
things,
but
the
reason
that
we
have
dentistry
is
there's
three
different
types
of
teeth:
there's
human
teeth
which
are
short
low,
crowns,
they're,
called
Buna
dot
teeth
and
that
once
they
are
fully
developed
at
whenever
they
are
at
five
six
years
old,
those
teeth
never
grow
any
taller
any
longer.
S
Then
you
have
hip
celedant
teeth
which
are
in
rodents,
rats
and
animals
like
that
they
are
ever
growing
hips
a
DOT
teeth
are
ever
erupting
so
two
years
after
they
get
that
tooth
like
if
you,
if
you
get
two
baby
teeth
in
as
soon
as
two
years
after
that
those
teeth
are
fully
developed
and
they
never
grow
anymore.
So
they
they're
they're
about
three
and
a
half
inches
in
in
length
and
from
that
point
on
they
wear
down
and-
and
then
you
end
up
with
a
very
small
tooth
after
that
tooth.
S
So
a
four-year-old
would
have
a
tooth
like
this,
and
it
makes
up
the
entire
jaw
of
that
horse
and
then,
as
that
tooth
erups
down
and
it's
worn
away,
then
we
then
we
get
to
the
horse
that
has
very
very
little
twos
left.
You
can
see
these
in
these
X-rays
and
different
things
you
can
see.
If
you
look
at
a
horse's
head,
you
don't
realize
at
the
end,
at
a
young
age,
that
their
entire
skull
is
full
of
teeth,
and
it
is
where
that
comes
into
our
problem
is
as
these
teeth
erupt.
S
We
brought
these
horses
in
from
nature
and
in
a
natural
environment.
When
horses
are
grazing
and
in
certain
places
they
they
were
designed
to
maintain
their
own
teeth
when
we
bring
them
into
our
environment
and
we
feed
them
in
stalls
and
with
their
head
in
different
positions,
different
types
of
feed,
then
their
teeth
grow
erratically
very
similar
to
their
feet.
S
I
know
committee
chair
cook
said
he
he
dealt
with
farrier
stuff
in
their
feet,
and
so,
if
you
bring
them
in
in
a
Sandy
their
feet,
do
not
wear
normal
or
wear
the
right
way
at
all.
They
they
actually
mushroom
out
and
I,
had
a
picture
on
my
phone
that
I
should
have
inserted
their
teeth.
Go
crazy,
I
mean
their
feet,
go
crazy.
Their
teeth
do
exactly
the
same
thing
so
because
we
bring
them
into
our
environment
from
outside
of
their
natural
environment.
S
We
we
owe
them
a
duty
to
to
maintain
their
teeth
for
them,
because
they
can't
naturally
do
that
themselves.
This
is
a
picture
of
the
teeth
in
the
back
of
the
mouth
as
they
sit.
What
would
happen
is
we'll
get
back
to
this
picture,
so
this
picture
with
my
mouse
go.
S
The
horses
are
designed
to
chew
laterally,
so
they
grind
their
feed.
We
Mash
our
feet
together,
so
they
have
a
very
their
jaw.
Pattern
would
go
down
out
and
back
to
Center
and
they
grind
it
back
to
Center
when
we
feed
them
the
type
of
really
soft
feeds
that
we
feed
them.
S
They
have
to
chew
vertically
to
get
to
get
that
job
done,
and
these
this
portion,
the
inside
portion
of
the
lowers
and
the
outside
portion
of
the
uppers,
do
not
get
worn
properly
and
they
develop
these
enamel
knife
blades,
basically
razor
blades
that
come
down
through
the
size
of
their
teeth,
so
they're
not
wearing
them.
Naturally,
because
it's
the
type
of
feed
that
they're
chewing
another
thing,
this
would
show
lacerations
in
the
cheeks
of
these
knife
blades.
S
This
is
the
enamel
portion
and
just
in
the
natural
like,
when
you
bring
a
horse
in
from
nature,
you
very
seldom
see
this
happen
in
nature,
but
when
you
bring
them
in
they
chew
with
cuts
in
their
cheeks
as
they
like.
If
you
guys
had
braces
back
here,
you
know
when
you
were
younger.
Those
are
the
types
of
lacerations
that
these
horses
receive.
You
can
see,
that's
that's
a
a
pretty
devastating
laceration
and
that's
normal
everyday
stuff
that
we
see,
because
of
of
horses
not
receiving
regular
dental
care.
S
S
It
would
be
slid
backwards,
and
so
the
the
teeth
begin
to
develop
a
hook
in
the
front,
and
it
physically
blocks
that
that
lower
jaw
and
and
locks
it
in
backwards
that
that
hurts
in
performance
that
hurts
in
mastication,
which
is
chewing
it
hurts
and
all
sorts
of
things.
So
then,
you
begin
to
see
where
this
jaw
here
is
stuck
backwards.
S
The
front
teeth
grow
over
the
front
and
and
then
again
now
that
jaw
is
completely
locked
and
the
horse
can't
self-correct
that
that's
something
that
it
would
take
someone
a
practitioner
to
come
in
there
and
be
able
to
correct
that
as
an
industry.
What
we
did
is
we
studied
a
bunch
of
wild
horses
and
we.
F
S
Out
the
correct
table
angles
of
these
things
and
and
how
these
Mouse
should
look
and
then
our
goal
as
an
industry
is
to
set
these
horses
back
to
how
they
naturally
were
and
then
and
then
teach
people
to
feed
them
in
the
correct
position,
head
position
and
the
right
types
of
feeds
that
go
along
with
the
the
great
feeds
that
we
have
and
allow
these
horses
to
self-maintain.
So
that's
our
goal
as
an
industry
and
that's
how
we
got
educated.
S
You
can
see,
for
instance,
in
this
particular
horse
here
and
I,
actually
started
some
work,
but
this
was
about
a
15
year
old
horse
and
the
way
that
he
chewed
he
had
developed
that
problem
that
I
talked
about.
He
had
his
lower
jaw
stuck
in
the
back
position.
The
upper
tooth
wasn't
worn
properly.
Every
time
this
horse
took
a
bite
of
feed,
he
had
to
chew
a
hole
in
his
jaw
that.
H
A
S
A
S
So
I
will
I'll
try
to
get
through
this
Veterinary
for
currently
Falls
under
veterinary
medicine
in
Kentucky
there
is
a
large
animal
shortage.
I
will
let
someone
else
speak
on
that
since
I'm,
not
from
Kentucky
but
but
hearing
the
the
coffee
table
talk
this
morning,
there's.
F
S
A
quite
a
shortage
in
a
lot
of
counties:
the
lack
of
medical
Veterinary
equine
Dentistry
training
in
the
veterinary
curriculum
speaking
to
veterinarians.
It's
not
in
a
lot
of
the
curriculum
that
they
have,
but
we
want
to
work
absolutely
work
with
veterinarians
and
I
would
like
to
speak
on
that.
If
I
get
time
perform,
Dental
evaluations,
I,
think
I.
My
lecture
is
way
too
long,
so
the
time
it
takes
to
do
this
is
one
important
problem
with
the
veterinarians.
S
Basically,
if
we
set
this
thing
aside
the
vet,
we
want
to
be
the
front
lines
for
the
veterinarians.
If
we
have
a
veterinarian
shortage.
Veterinarians
really
honestly,
don't
like.
If
someone
brings
in
five
horses
to
be
to
be
worked
on,
it
takes
hours
to
do
that
and
they
have
a
trailer
line
out
the
back.
We
want
to
be
the
front
lines.
We
are
the
front
lines
in
a
lot
of
states
where
we
are
well
educated,
we're
trained.
S
We
have
certifications
to
where
we
we
recognize
problems,
and
then
we
bring
these
problems
to
the
veterinarians,
the
veterinarians.
Do
the
the
doctor
type
work.
We
do
the
x-rays,
the
extractions
and
we
are
the
front
lines
that
that
help
to
control
the
issues
that
we
tried
to
speak
about
earlier.
D
Mr,
chairman
and
and
yes
and
I-
think
those
of
us
who
serve
on
many
committees
here
and
probably
heard
a
lot
of
us
talk
about.
There
is
a
shortage.
Just
this
issue,
a
quarter
house
or
quarter
horse
news
says
the
equine.
Veterinarian
shortage
isn't
coming
it's
already
here,
that's
nationally
folks,
we're
not
the
only
state
grappling
with
this,
despite
our
work
with
other
University
vet
schools
and
the
way
we
are
looking
to
incent
and
the
needs
and
and
once
again
I
think
our
demographic
is
very
important
here,
a
large
animal
veterinarians.
D
In
my
neck
of
the
woods
we've
got
some
great
ones,
they're,
they're
kind
of
busy
and-
and
you
know,
rural
practice
doesn't
always
lend
itself
to
a
practice
in
Woodford,
County
or
a
practice
in
even
Bourbon
County,
sometimes
and
and
we've
got
to
make
policy
that
protects
my
ability
as
an
owner
to
do
what
I
want
to
with
that
horse
to
the
extent
of
good
welfare
standards,
going
it
husbandry
standards
and
protect
that
horse
and
I.
D
Think
people
have
done
that
for
hundreds
of
years,
especially
here
in
Kentucky
and
especially
East
Kentucky,
so
I
mean
I
I.
Think
we
look
at
sort
of
like
the
previous
presentation.
Where
are
the
ones
that
are
where
is
the
access
and
and
then
we've
got
to
also
make
policy
to
serve
areas
that
don't
have
large
enough
large
animal
veterinarians,
or
even
guys
like
this,
that
have
gone
and
gotten
certifications
and
had
education?
D
There's
a
generational
experts
in
this
stuff
working
in
the
hollers
of
East
Kentucky
that
that
I've
utilized
myself
I
mean
this
is
something
that
and
like
any
other
husbands
we
practice,
then
you
call
a
veterinarian.
If
there's
something
remarkable,
that's
what
these
folks
do
as
well
and
we've
got
their
clients
here.
We've
got
them
here
and
I
I
want
to
work
with
you,
Mr
chairman
and
and
the
stakeholders,
the
veterinarians
and
and
the
owners
to
to
become
a
system
and
we're
not
the
only
States.
D
That's
done
this
I,
don't
mine's
worked
in
Utah
and
worked
in
other
states
Texas,
and
so
we've
got
some
models
floating
around
that
we're
looking
at
to
try
to
tailor
a
solution
for
the
diverse
demographic
here
in
Kentucky
and
to
so
protect
our
horses
and
to
provide
owners
some
ability
to
to
do
that
without
being
criminalized,
so
that
that's
why
I'm
here
and
we're
we've
got
all
these
folks
here
for
for
questions.
Let's.
A
Before
we
switch
off,
we've
got,
we've
got
two
questions.
Let's
hit
those
representative
Meredith.
P
A
N
Thank
you
chairman.
Thank
you,
Senator.
We
actually
own
one
horse
which
is
enough
and
she
had
her
teeth
cleaned
last
week
and
we
did
sedation
with
her
because
she's
an
anxious
horse,
and
my
understanding
is
that
many
of
the
horses
have
sedation
for
accurate,
good,
dentistry
and
that
only
a
veterinarian
or
the
owner
can
use
sedation.
So
does
that
play
into
your
conversations
at
all.
S
So
how
we
do
that
in
Oklahoma
and
Texas?
Is
we
absolutely
keep
that
relationship
with
a
veterinarian,
so
the
the
horse
and
the
horse
owner
go
through
the
veterinarian,
get
the
prescribed
medication
and-
and
we
either
do
it
at
the
vet
clinic
or
they
bring
that
sedation
and
the
administration
is
done.
So
we
keep
that
relationship
with
the
with
the
sedations
and
the
veterinarian.
We're
not
imposing
on
that
relationship.
All
we're
asking
is
for
legality
for
the
procedure.
D
And
if
I
could
add
to
that,
you
know
of
a
light
having
a
relationship
with
the
men
being
able
to
get
one
to
come
when
you
need
one.
Is
it
two
separate
different
things,
but
the
one
thing
the
veterinary
modernization
act
did
was
provided
Telehealth
option
and
that
Telehealth
option
is
going
to
be
very
beneficial
in
in
resolving
some
of
those
issues.
D
S
In
the
in
the
states
that
we
become
legal
to
to
do
the
procedure,
we
we
don't
touch
the
sedation
laws.
The
sedation
laws
remain
the
same.
The
drug
policies
remain
the.
N
A
Let
me
let
me
follow
up
before
we
change
and
let
the
next
group
come
up
and
speak.
How
many
are
there
vets?
Are
there
dental
schools
in
Kentucky
or
what
are
the
dental
schools
around
here?
Do
we
do?
We
know
that.
E
There's
one
that's
based
in
Virginia
over
the
school
I
would
say
it
rotates
between
some
different
states.
There's
one
in
Texas
and
there's
one
in
Idaho,
okay
and.
A
S
In
Texas
we
did
go
through,
it's
the
only
state
that
goes
through
the
licensing
licensing
procedure,
so
I
have
a
Texas
vet
med
license
same
as
same
as
a
Veterinary,
so
it
takes
certification,
so
they
certify
through
an
association.
And
then
we
take
a
jurisprudence,
examination
with
the
state,
and
then
we
are
regulated
by
the
Texas
vet
board
and
I
have
a
Texas
vet.
Board
license
continue
an
ad
they
require.
So
we
renew
our
license
turn
in
our
continuing
ed
every
year.
Yes,
sir,.
S
So
we
we
are
generally
supervised.
So
when
we
initiate
our
license,
we
get
generally
supervised
by
two.
So
we
have
three
types
of
supervision,
immediate,
General
and
direct
and
we're
generally
supervised.
So
if
we
have
a
problem,
we're
required
to
keep
our
charting
and
we
take
that
that
chart
and
that
to
our
general
supervision
vet.
So
that's
the
type
of
supervision
that
we
have
in
Texas,
so.
S
There's
there's
three
equine
dentists
on
a
committee
that
sit
underneath
the
vet
board
that
are
within
the
vet
board.
So
we
have
a
committee
sit
within,
so
the
vet
board
has
access
to
this
Committee
of
three.
A
D
I've
got
several
States
models
if
you
will
I'm
still
kind
of
dissecting
those,
and
course
I
still
won't
need
to
talk
to
the
vet
board.
We've
had
some
mild
conversations.
Last
year
we
had,
we
were
going
to
come
back
to
this,
so
I
haven't
discussed
it
with
them,
but
I
I
wanted
the
committee
and
I
think
the
chairman
did
to
start
to
be
aware
of
the
issue
and
that
we
were
working
on
it.
D
A
Really
really
appreciate
you
coming
here,
especially
coming
all
the
way
up
from
Texas
and
really
appreciate
that
and
since
there's
several
of
them
coming,
if
you
guys
step
aside
and
Michelle
Shane,
if
you
got
do
you
guys,
I,
don't
know
who's
coming
up,
but
thank
you
let
you
all
come
up
and
thank
you,
sir.
Thank
you
really
appreciate
it.
A
U
Michelle
Shane
executive
director
with
the
board-
thank
you
for
having
us
here
today.
I
just
wanted
to.
Can
you
hear
me?
Okay,
great
I
wanted
to
also
thank
Senator
Webb
for
bringing
this
issue
back
up
before
the
committee,
and
we
did
work
with
her
on
the
house
bill
167
that
just
passed
here
in
2023..
It
was
a
modernization
of
our
veterinary
medicine,
Practice
Act,
and
it
did
affirm
that
equine
Dentistry,
with
a
lot
of
other
practices,
fall
within
the
scope
of
practice
of
veterinary
medicine.
U
U
Equine
Dentistry
is
one
that
we
looked
at
as
well,
and
we
had
formed
a
coalition
to
support
that
that
the
board
would
oversee
licensure
and
those
in
the
community
of
veterinary
medicine
also
supported
something
like
85
percent
to
see
board
have
oversight
under
this
profession
that
that
framework
or
the
Allied
animal
health
professional
permit.
That
framework
now
exists
and
we'd
be
delighted
to
work
with
Senator
Webb
in
this
group
to
bring
that
on
board
and
and
make
that
happen,
so
that
individuals
who
are
now
practicing
in
Kentucky
can
do
so
legally.
U
We
want
to
bring
that
lay
profession,
Under
the
Umbrella
of
public
protection
by
providing
that
legal
path
to
work.
That
being
said,
there
are
some
concerns
that
we
still
need
to
work
out.
Protection
of
the
horse
and
the
public
should
be
at
the
Forefront.
There
needs
to
be
an
Avenue
for
recourse
when
adverse
reactions
and
problems
exist
beyond
the
scope
of
the
equine
dentists
and
of
biggest
import
and
concern.
U
Right
now
to
veterinarians,
too,
is
the
access
to
drugs,
as
you
all
know,
and
have
probably
heard
xylazine
a
Veterinary
drug
primarily
used
in
horses,
is
looking
to
be
scheduled
at
the
federal
level.
So
access
and
transport
of
those
drugs
is
a
critical
component
of
this
issue,
and
I
would
like
to
turn
it
over
to
Dr
Park.
T
Thank
you,
Michelle
she's,
integral
in
the
function
of
the
board
and
the
modernization
of
The
Practice
Act
I
just
wanted
to
say
thank
you
to
all
you
for,
for
our
passage
of
The,
Practice
Act
and
allowing
us
to
come
before
you
last
year,
a
special
thanks
to
representative
cook
and
Senator
Hal
and
Senator
Webb
you're
all
instrumental
in
helping
us,
and
we
really
appreciate
that
as
Michelle
stated
the
board
of
examiners.
The
kbve
has
the
framework
for
the
Allied
Health
professional,
as
we
were
terming
it
and
we
were
willing
to.
T
We
want
to
be
cooperative
and
try
to
solve
this
issue.
There's
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
issues
to
it
and
I.
Don't
know
if
I'm
smart
enough
to
solve
them
all,
but
we've
got
a
lot
of
great
minds
and
I
think
we
need
to
come
together
and
try
to
come
up
with
Solutions
and,
as
Michelle
stated
about
and
I
think
Senator
Bledsoe
stated
you
know.
Sedation
is
one
of
the
big
issues
and
questions
to
do
a
proper
oral
exam
on
a
on
a
horse.
T
It
needs
to
be
sedated
and
that's
one
of
the
keys.
Is
it's
not
just
about
floating
or
grinding
teeth?
It's
about
a
good
oral
exam
and
a
good
diagnosis
of
of
any
issues
that
are
Beyond
grinding.
T
The
points
down,
and
you
know
my
education
was
eight
years
of
four
years,
undergrad
and
four
years
of
Professional
School
and
I'm
as
a
as
a
veterinarian
role
and
as
a
member
of
the
Kentucky
Board
of
Veterinary
examiners,
the
you
know
the
number
one
most
Forefront
is
the
is
the
horse
and
the
animal,
the
well-being,
the
health.
The
number
two
is
the
person
that's
attached
to
it
and
as
a
board
member,
you
know
it's
about
protection
of
the
animal
and
protection
of
the
citizens,
rights
and
and
as
a
practicing
veterinarian.
T
It's
it's
about
the
health
of
the
animal.
So
there's
a
lot
of
a
lot
of
unknowns
and
a
lot
of
questions
to
be
raised,
but
as
a
licensed
veterinarian
in
the
state
of
Kentucky,
I
can't
go
into
West
Virginia
and
flow,
the
horse's
teeth
or
I'm
subject
to
disciplinary
action,
because
I
would
need
to
be
licensed
in
in
Virginia
or
West
Virginia
or
Ohio
or
Tennessee
any
surrounding
State.
And
so
there
needs
to
be
some
regulation.
T
There
needs
to
be
some
accountability
and-
and
you
know
the
old
Sam,
what's
good
for
the
goose
is
good
for
the
gander.
So
you
know
I
think
that
that
there's
there's
got
to
be
some
balance
to
it
and
some
fairness
and
above
all,
protect
the
horse.
U
Like
to
also
finally
point
out
that
with
us
in
the
audience
today,
members
of
the
Kentucky
Veterinary
Medical
association,
their
executive
director,
Deborah
hamiltonback,
Dr,
Philip,
Prater,
Dr,
Ernie
Martinez,
another
equine
vet
and
Dr
Jim
Weber
as
well.
A
K
A
Last
definitely,
oh
and
I'm.
Sorry
we
had
one
person
Rachel
ball.
You
came
all
the
way
from
paint
lick.
Did
you
have
anything
you
want
to
say
you're
good,
thank
you
for
being
here
all
right,
yeah,
all
right.
Let's
move
on
Mr
Mike
Stone,
sir!
If
you'll
come
forward
and
introduce
yourself
for
the
record
look
forward
to
your
testimony.
V
V
How's,
that
okay
I'm
sorry
Mike,
Stone,
executive,
director,
Kentucky
Council
on
problem
gambling,
co-chairman
cook
and
chickel,
and
members
of
the
committee
I,
am
thankful
for
the
opportunity
to
address
the
committee
today
on
behalf
of
the
council,
which
is
a
501c3
non-profit
organization
whose
mission
is
to
increase
awareness
of
problem
gambling,
promote
prevention
and
research
and
advocate
for
the
availability
of
treatment.
Many
of
the
committee
is
familiar
with
the
council
and
its
effort
to
provide
objective
information
about
problem
and
addictive
gambling.
V
The
first
and
foremost
message
I
wish
to
convey
on
behalf
of
the
council
is
gratitude
for
the
general
assembly,
including
language
and
House
Bill
551,
to
establish
a
publicly
funded
problem
and
addicted
gambling
awareness,
education,
prevention
and
treatment
program
in
Kentucky.
The
council
has
advocated
for
such
a
program
for
more
than
20
years.
Kentucky
now
joins
42
other
states
and
districts,
as
well
as
the
rest
of
the
world.
In
recognizing
disordered.
Gambling
is
a
real
public
health
issue.
V
It
is
defined
as
an
addictive
disorder
in
the
American
Psychiatric
association's
Diagnostic
and
statistical
Manual
of
the
mental
disorders.
Fifth
edition
again,
thank
you.
A
publicly
funded
program
to
address
problem
and
addicted
gambling
is
needed.
Research
by
academics
such
as
John
Grant
at
the
University
of
Chicago
Timothy
Fong
at
UCLA
and
Howard
Schaefer
at
Howard
at
Harvard
University
document,
the
addiction.
The
latest
statistics
from
the
survey
firm
ipsos
showed
that
78
percent
of
Kentucky
adults
gambled
over
the
past
year.
That
is
more
than
2.5
million
Kentucky
citizens.
V
Research
conducted
by
Council
board
member
Scott
hunt,
who
is
associate
dean
of
the
College
of
Justice
safety
and
Military
science
at
Eastern,
Kentucky
University
revealed
as
many
as
165
000
Kentucky
adults
exhibit
problem
and
gambling
traits
and
as
many
as
64
000
have
a
gambling
addiction
using
a
median
of
nine
thousand
dollars.
That
academic
Research
indicates
is
the
average
annual
social
cost
per
addicted.
V
Gambler
Kentucky's
addicted
gamblers
cost
576
million
dollars
Additionally
the
Kentucky
incentives
for
prevention
survey
conducted
by
reach
of
Louisville
of
6th,
8th,
10th
and
12th
grade
public
school
students
showed
more
than
26
percent
of
high
school
seniors
gambled
for
money
or
possessions.
During
their
lifetimes,
the
KIPP
survey
indicated
almost
two
percent
of
the
more
than
one
hundred
thousand
respondents
reported
gambling
led
to
financial
problems
or
problems
with
family
work,
school
or
personal
life,
which
are
criteria
for
gambling
addiction.
V
The
council
supports
the
1-800
Gambler
helpline,
which
is
operated
from
River
Valley
Behavioral
Health
in
Owensboro
helpline
calls
and
tax
increase
from
294
in
2018
to
709
in
2020.
True
through
the
first
six
months
of
2023,
calls
are
averaging
more
than
two
per
day
in
Kentucky,
a
stigma
still
is
attached
to
problem
and
addicted
gambling.
People
are
fearful
of
self-identifying
due
to
anticipated,
derision
and
embarrassment.
This
is
why
gambling
addiction
is
in
part
viewed
as
a
hidden
addiction.
V
V
It
is
a
false
narrative
that
awareness
of
problem
and
addicted
gambling
and
providing
services
for
problem
and
addicted
gamblers
will
decrease
gambling
participation,
thus
harming
the
gambling
businesses
and
lowering
the
revenue
accruing
to
the
state
that
has
not
happened
in
any
other
jurisdiction.
Kentucky
gambling
businesses
already
are
working
to
raise
awareness.
Almost
all
are
council
news-paying
members
supporting
awareness
efforts,
gambling
Enterprises
like
Caesars,
which
will
operate
the
new
sports
book,
The
Red
Mile
have
detailed
gambling
policies,
including
a
self-exclusion
policy
that
bans
those
on
the
list
from
going
to
any
Caesar's
property.
V
Indiana
and
Ohio
have
state
similar,
Statewide
self-exclusion
systems.
Such
a
program
is
recommended
for
Kentucky.
The
council
already
has
met
with
representatives
of
the
Department
of
Behavioral
Health,
Developmental
and
intellectual
disabilities,
to
offer
help
in
developing
the
regulations
to
implement
the
problem
gambling
program.
The
council
will
not
administer
nor
be
a
part
of
program
oversight.
That
is
the
role
for
a
public
agency.
Fortunately,
Kentucky
can
adapt
the
many
best
practice
initiatives
from
the
other
states
and
countries
as
it
forms
its
problem
and
addictive
gambling
program.
V
The
council
appreciates
the
Department's
work
in
developing
the
emergency
regulations
for
the
Kentucky
problem.
Gambling
assistance
account
that
were
announced
last
week.
The
council
does
have
some
concerns.
One
is
diversion
of
resources
to
other
addiction,
prevention
and
treatment
programs.
House
Bill
551
did
not
specify
that
the
funds
raised
are
solely
to
address
gambling
problems
and
addictions.
Clearly
that
was
the
General
assembly's
intent,
but
history
from
other
states
shows
funds.
Purportedly
earmarked
for
problem
gambling
Services
were
diverted
to
other
uses.
The
council
asked
for
General
Assembly
oversight
on
this
issue.
V
V
The
council
has
volunteered
to
use
its
accrued
grants
and
donations
to
pay
for
a
week-long
training
of
counselors.
Before
the
public
program's
implementation.
They
then
could
seek
certification
as
gambling
counselors
by
the
international
gambling
counselor
certification
board.
The
last
concern
is
cost
House.
Bill
551
is
projected
to
raise
five
hundred
thousand
dollars
for
problem
in
addicted
gambling
services.
V
The
council
stands
by
the
total
per
capita
number,
because
the
evidence
of
services
that
is
needed
to
be
directed
toward
youth
while
the
funds
realized
from
House
Bill
551,
are
significant
and
will
let
Kentucky
build
a
program.
The
example
of
other
states
is
the
demand
for
services
soon.
Will
eclipse
the
funds
available.
If
and
when
additional
funding
is
directed
to
the
program,
the
council
reiterates
its
long-held
advocacy
that
all
legally
sanctioned
gambling
in
Kentucky
share
in
the
cost
of
the
program.
Gambling
is
an
equal
opportunity,
addiction.
V
A
Thank
you,
Mr
Stone,
and
really
much
really
really
appreciate
you
being
here.
Speaking
on
this,
you
know
we
put
500
000
into
that
with
that
bill
last
year,
as
you
stated,
it's
very
important
that
this
group
is
aware
of
it
and
we
manage
that
properly.
Representative
Meredith,
you
have
a
question.
Thank.
P
You
Mr,
chairman
and
I
just
want
to
just
clarify
a
couple
of
things:
one
and
and
Mike.
Thanks
for
being
here,
we
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
work
with
you
on
this
I
think.
If
you
look
at
the
emergency
regulations
that
the
horse
racing
commission
have
promulgated
so
far,
there
is
a
self-exclusion
language
in
that
regulation,
and
so
that
will
be
a
Statewide
program
in
Kentucky
under
their
regulations
that
have
been
out
in
the
e-regs
and
the
permanent
regs
that
they're
looking
towards
as
well.
P
The
I
certainly
agree
with
you
that
the
intent
in
the
bill
was
to
reserve
that
money
specifically
for
problem
gaming,
except
for
just
the
administrative
cost
of
the
cabinet
managing
the
program,
and
so
we
will
certainly
be
overseeing
that
and
I
also
appreciate
the
the
opportunity
chairman
cook
to
continue
to
work
with
you
on
finding
other
funds
to
go
into
that
from
the
other
forms
of
gaming
that
exist
in
the
state.
P
A
Sir
representative
Gentry.
W
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
I'm
Mike,
thanks
for
being
here
good,
to
see
you
again
and,
as
you
know,
I've
been
a
huge
advocate
for
two
things
in
this
state:
expanded
gaming
and
but
also
a
addicted
gaming
program.
It's
it's
something:
that's
Missing
in
this
state
and
I'm
really
happy.
We
were
able
to
put
that
language
in
551
last
session,
I
also
filed
a
bill
last
session
toward
the
end
of
the
session
House
Bill
486,
and
this
particular
bill
I
knew
it
wasn't
going
to
move.
W
It
was
designed
to
be
an
introductory
discussion
piece
and
it
talked
about
putting
a
pro
problem
gambling
program
in
place.
It
kind
of
mimics
the
state
of
Virginia.
To
my
colleagues,
you
have
a
chance
to
look
at
that
and
I
picked
Virginia
simply
because
it's
an
HHR
State,
it's
a
it's.
A
border
state
I
think
it's
it's.
It
shows
some
of
the
things
that
that
they
are
doing
and
again
it
was.
It
was
an
introductory
discussion
piece,
hopefully
that
that
we
can
use
moving
forward
just
showing
what
one
state
is
doing.
W
As
well
as
other
members
on
in
the
council
to
look
at
what
the
individual
State
programs
are,
that
are
out
there
right
now
and
is
there
any
particular
State,
that's
having
more
success
than
others
that
we
might
look
at.
V
There
are
several
that
have
advanced
programs
as
well
as
our
neighbor
to
the
north.
Canada
has
the
very
evolved
best
practices
for
addressing
problem
and
addicted
gambling
within
the
states.
Massachusetts
Connecticut,
New,
York,
Oregon,
Washington,
State
Oklahoma
all
have
established
programs
with
strong
best
practice
activities.
J
W
It's
it's
just
you.
K
W
This
is
a
real
thing.
There's
Community
cost
to
this.
You
know
we
could
argue
until
we're
blue
in
the
face,
whether
it's
one
percent,
two
percent
five
percent
or
whatever
there's
a
lot
of
research
out
there
there's
a
lot
of
casinos
most
of
the
casino
states
around
this
country,
Embrace.
This
type
of
of.
W
Of
program,
because,
let's
face
it-
and
this,
this
problem
exists
in
in
these
individuals
that
are
more
prone
to
addiction
or
coming
into
the
facilities,
it's
kind
of
a
black
eye
on
on
the
activity.
So
it's
very
common
for
states
to
have
funds
set
aside
how
the
tax
dollars
to
fund
these
services
not
only
from
a
treatment
standpoint,
but
from
a
education
and
prevention
standpoint.
So
please
keep
moving
toward
this
direction.
I'll
do
anything
I
can
to
help
out
anyway.
Thank.