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A
A
A
All
right,
well,
I
say,
welcome
to
each
of
you,
but
we
have
a
couple
members
that
have
asked
to
be
recognized
representatives
giving
pranty
I'm
going
to
turn
it
over
to
you
for
a
second.
I
think
you
have
a
special
guest.
B
Yes,
I
do
where'd,
he
go
here,
mr
chase
whitehouse.
He
just
graduated
from
mumber
county
high
school
he's
getting
ready
to
head
to
american
university
in
washington,
d.c
and
with
a
major
in
international
studies
and
a
focus
on
american
foreign
policy
and
national
security,
and
he
just
he's
interested
in
nuclear
energy.
So
that's
glad
to
have
him
with
him
today.
A
We
also
have
a
special
guest
joining
us
today.
Who's
been
had
had
quite
a
busy
time
of
it.
Richard
white
is,
is
with
us
and
wanted
to
welcome
you
back
to
the
committee
and
glad
to
have
you
back
with
us
there.
A
C
Yes,
chairman,
I'm
glad
to
be
back
here
and
I
sure
appreciate
all
the
prayers
from
everybody.
C
I
don't
know
where
she
went,
but
batteries-
oh
there
you
are.
I
may
have
her
come
up
here.
If
you
all
don't
care
cause,
I
could.
A
D
No
thank
you
it's
great
to
be
back
with
the
end
of
starting
the
interim.
We
have
a
lot
of
issues
that
are
going
to
be
coming
up
late.
Next,
I
think
we
all
in
this
country
are
seeing
what
failed
energy
policy
really
produces
as
far
as
high
gas
prices,
high
inflation
and
that
sort
of
thing,
and
I
think,
we're
really
concerned
that
my
soul
has
actually
announced
that
they
are
expecting
some
blackouts
and
brownouts
this
year
because
of
a
lack
of
power,
reliable
power.
D
Now
that
we're
looking
to
take,
I
think
about
12
and
a
half
gigawatts
of
coal-fired
electricity
off
the
grid,
and
that's
that's
that's
taking
us
down
a
road
that
we've
never
been
before,
and
certainly
this
committee
is
going
to
be
looking
at
some
of
those
issues
and
and
and
hopefully
trying
to
prepare
our
citizens,
but
also
doing
all
that
we
can
to
prevent
that
those
those
terrible
things
from
happening.
So
thank
you,
mr
chairman.
D
A
Good,
mr
chairman,
gooch,
thank
you
for
those
comments.
Representative
hugett
had
an
event
with
his
church
and
could
not
make
it
so
I
just
want
to
duly
note
that
he's
checked
in
with
us
and
he'll
be
following
the
minutes
of
the
meetings.
If
you
do
have
something
that
comes
up
over
the
summer
and
can't
make
it
please
let
us,
as
chairman
know,
so
we
can
make
sure
that
the
people
know
where
you
are.
If
you
can't
be
here
this
time,
I'd
like
to
ask
the
clerk
to
call
the
role.
A
Here
all
right
looks
like
we
have
a
quorum
at
this
time,
we'll
go
ahead
and
get
straight
into
our
meetings.
We
have.
The
first
is
emerging
trends
in
the
energy
markets
and
I
think
co
chairman
gooch,
had
had
kind
of
given
you
a
pretty
good,
kick
off
of
what
concerns
this
committee
and
why
we're
going
to
be
looking
more
into
this
this
summer
because,
as
he
duly
commented,
we're
into
sort
of
new
territory
here,
what
we're
seeing
with
energy
in
the
united
states.
So
at
this
time
we
have
dr
rodney
andrews.
A
E
There
you
go
all
right
thanks,
so
I'll
get
right
into
what
are
going
to
be
the
major
concerns
for
the
energy
markets
right
now,
the
biggest
one
being
that
it's
uncertainty,
particularly
in
petroleum
and
natural
gas,
both
pricing
and
supply
going
into
the
next
two
years,
and
I
do
want
to
make
a
point
of
pointing
out
that
this
is
not
completely
due
to
russia
and
ukraine.
E
For
what
we're
seeing
this
just
gives
you
a
whole
bunch
of
highlights
just
taken
in
the
last
two
or
three
days
of
headlines
about
the
prices
of
natural
gas
and
oil,
and
what
you
can
see
is
that
you
know
the
many
of
the
banks
are
upgrading
what
they
think
the
price
is
going
to
be
over
the
next
24
months.
Natural
gas
is
at
a
13-year
high
and
we're
expecting
a
hot
summer.
E
As
representative
gooch
said,
you
know
there
are
concerns
with
with
blackouts
certainly
rolling
brownouts
through
much
of
the
west,
and
you
can
see
that
you
know
the
costs
from
the
daily
highlight.
This
was
from
tuesday,
you
know
we're
well
over
120
dollars
a
barrel
for
both
brent
and
west
texas,
intermediate
crude
oil,
natural
gas
is
at
the
highest,
it's
been
and
that's
being
reflected
in
the
prices
of
gasoline
and
diesel
as
well.
E
Why
is
a
range
of
factors?
E
The
the
biggest
drivers
right
now
on
price
are,
in
the
short
term,
sanctions
on
russia's
oil
production,
which
is
causing
issues
in
europe
which
is
causing
us
to
export
more
hydrocarbons
because
of
the
price
opec
is
playing
games
they're,
basically
announcing
that
there's
going
to
be
lower
demand
so
that
they
are
not
increasing
their
production,
which
is
just
a
roundabout
way
of
saying
we're
going
to
keep
prices
high
and
then
the
other
one
which
is
very
much
domestic,
is
the
rate
at
which
the
oil
and
gas
producers
actually
increase
their
own
production.
E
E
I
will
point
out
that
it
is
less
than
it
was
in
2008
now,
if
you
remember
what
happened
right
around
2008,
that's
also
not
that
encouraging,
but
it
is
even
in
real
dollars-
is
quite
a
bit
lower.
The
energy
information
agency
is
forecasting
that
that's
going
to
remain
110
to
120
a
barrel
for
the
remainder
of
2022,
with
forecasts
that
it's
going
to
fall
off
below
100
as
we
get
into
2023
in
a
lot
of
that
will
be
adjustments
right
now.
E
E
Gasoline
and
diesel
prices
really
are
reflecting
what
are
called
the
refining
margins
or
the
wholesale
margin,
and
that's
the
difference
in
the
price
for
wholesale
gasoline
sold
to
essentially
the
price
of
brent
crude
oil
right
now.
That
margin
is
about
a
dollar
and
17
a
gallon.
It's
expected
to
drop
off
to
a
more
normal.
C
C
E
The
price
right
there
that
is
elevated
because
of
that
wholesale
margin,
and
so
they're
forecasting
this
the
gasoline
prices
to
begin
to
to
ease
down
as
low
as
425
they're,
not
projecting
below
four
in
the
near
term
and
diesel
is
following
that
trend,
but
it's
about
a
dollar
above
gasoline
right
now.
E
E
Unfortunately,
the
orange
line.
There
is
the
actual
volumes
that
estimates
based
on,
so
you
can
see
that
once
you
get
out
a
year,
it's
a
it's
a
pretty
weak
prediction,
but
it
is
fairly
consistent
across
most
of
the
markets
in
most
of
the
agencies
that
do
this.
E
The
the
good
news
is
that
crude
oil
production
is
up
from
where
it
was
and
it
is
predicted
to
increase
significantly
in
the
coming
year
as
we
get
into
2023.
E
Most
of
that
is
lower
48,
which
also
helps
with
price,
but,
as
you
can
see
from
the
bright
red,
obvious
arrow,
I
put
there
a
huge
issue
for
us
right
now
is:
our
inventories
are
extremely
low.
We're
down
57
million
barrels
compared
to
this
time
last
year,
so
there's
not
a
whole
lot
of
flex
in
the
market,
and
one
of
the
issues
is
that
this
is
the
time
of
year,
where
normally
you
do
maintenance
on
refineries,
so
they're
at
sort
of
their
low
and
this
year
we're
actually
having
to
operate
those
at
like
90.
E
So
that's
fine.
If
we
can
do
it
as
long
as
we
don't
run
into
some
problem
and
we
could
lose
you
know,
and
then
we
lose
a
refinery
for
whatever
reason:
gasoline
distillates,
just
everything
else.
The
blue
line.
E
There
is
the
retail
price,
and
you
can
see
again
predictions
are
that
it's
going
to
drop,
come
down
to
the
four
dollar
range,
perhaps
a
bit
lower
the
the
little
cartoon
there
is
just
sort
of
showing
how
the
the
price
of
gasoline
is
derived
and
about
60
percent
of
is
that
is
the
crude
costs.
So
that's
the
one
that
we
can
look
at
the
futures
there.
You
know
the
top
of
that
is
taxes
and
those
are
fairly
stable.
E
E
That's
where
that
marketing
margin
is
increasing
and
pushing
up
there,
so
you've
got
the
crude
oil
pros
price
going
up,
and
then
you
have
on
top
of
that,
these,
these
margins
that
need
to
come
down
and
part
of
that
again,
you
can
see
in
the
lower
graph
there
with
the
red
arrow
is
the
that,
besides
having
a
deficit
in
crude
storage
inventories,
we
also
have
a
very
significant
deficit
compared
to
past
years
and
the
amount
of
gasoline
we
have
in
inventory,
and
so
that
can
cause
issues
when
something
gets
tight.
E
There's
not
a
whole
lot
that
can
can
lighten
that,
and
so
that
will
cause
price
to
go
up.
There's
a
great
deal
of
sort
of
back
and
forth
in
in
people
who
do
modeling
in
this
area
about
where
in
what's
again,
what's
the
u.s
price,
where
we'll
start
seeing
a
change
in
behavior
and
use
of
gasoline-
and
it's
generally,
you
know
the
the
quick
and
easy
one
is
five
dollars.
E
When
you
get
close
to
five
you'll,
see
people
stop
traveling
you'll,
see
people
start
changing
the
type
of
cars
they
buy.
Now,
there's
that
option
to
go
to
electrical
vehicles
in
some
areas,
but
you
know
we're
we're
right
on
the
edge
of
where
is
this
going
to
really
start
having
long-term
impacts?
E
Natural
gas
may
be
the
more
concerning
issue
there.
The
prices
there
are
rising
again,
because
inventories
are
the
lowest
they've
been
below
five
year.
In
the
five
year
average,
we
are
seeing
a
very
steady
demand
for
liquefied
natural
gas
exports.
E
I
think,
in
the
past,
I've
mentioned
to
this
committee
a
concern
with
the
number
of
permits
we
were
giving
to
build
lng
export
terminals.
We
are
now
seeing
that
that
is
exasperated
by
the
fact
that
europe
is
trying
to
or
is
getting
cut
off
from
russian
gas.
E
E
Our
inventories
at
five
year
low
we
had
about
two
trillion
cubic
feet:
that's
15
percent
below
the
five-year
average,
so
we're
just
short
that
amount
of
gas
in
the
system
right
now
we're
projecting
eia
projects
that
that's
going
to
get
a
bit
better
to
nine
percent,
but
that's
still
not
great
when
we
think
about
having
instability
in
this
market,
particularly
with
the
things
that
are
going
on
in
europe.
E
U.S
production,
however,
is
forecast
to
increase
in
the
remainder
of
2022,
with
further
increases
in
2023,
which,
hopefully,
if
we
maintain
steady
on
our
exports,
will
help
relieve
the
issues
with
gas
and
domestically
demand
is
increasing
or
steady
about
85
billion
cubic
feet
a
day,
but
11
to
12
of
that
is
exported.
E
Electric
power
you
know
used
continues
very
strong.
That
is
a
big
factor
of
that
is
coal,
plant
closures,
the
need
to
back
up
renewables,
and
you
know
again
the
difficulty
in
switching
from
gas
to
coal.
One
of
the
issues
that
it's
difficult
to
switch
from
gas
to
coal
is
because
we've
closed
those
plants,
and
you
can't
just
turn
one
back
on
the
price
is
going
to
remain
strong
for
natural
gas,
probably
through
mid-2023
right
now.
E
We're
talking
about
8.7
million
bt
per
million
btu
through
towards
the
end
of
this
year
should
lighten
hopefully,
after
that
that
8.7
is
interesting,
because
it's
9.2
yesterday,
the
the
the
hope
is
that-
or
the
prediction
I
should
say
is
that
it
will
continue
to
drop
down
to
about
the
five.
E
So
we're
not
going
to
get
back
down
below
three,
but
a
more
reasonable
number
around
five,
and
that's
probably
where
the
settle
will
be,
but
the
timing
remains
uncertain
as
we
go
further
out,
and
some
of
that
is
international
uncertainty
as
well
marketed
natural
gas
production
is.
This
is
the
predictions
for
it
to
increase
compared
to
where
we
are
now.
E
That's
quite
likely
just
because
the
dynamics
in
the
market
there,
and
what
we're
seeing
again
is
a
lot
of
this
production
is
not
traditional
sources.
This
is
again
in
the
shale
plays.
We
are
pretty
dependent
on
that,
which
means
it's
a
little
tighter
on
the
economics
of
it
comparatively
to
say
gulf
coast.
E
What
you
can
see,
if
you
look
at
the
large
graph
there
right
at
where
that
history
projection
line,
is
you
can
see
that
we're
on
this
fairly
steep
increase
in
exports?
Right
now,
it's
unclear
how
long
or
short
term
that's
going
to
be
before
it
flattens
out,
and
that's
mostly
because,
as
you
can
see
there
on
the
right,
exports
to
europe
are
going
up
dramatically
and
that's
not
going
to
change
in
the
near
term
simply
because
of
the
loss
of
russian
gas
going
into
that
market.
E
But
you
can
also
see
that
the
majority
of
the
gain
there
is
in
the
eastern
gas
fields
and
the
shales
natural
gas
prices
are,
as
I
said,
likely
to
hang
where
they
are
now
and
begin
to
ease
as
we
get
into
the
end
of
2022
into
early
2023
and
those
the
numbers
that
we
were
giving
were
talking.
E
The
other
thing
there
is
that
we
are
seeing
both
china
and
india
buying
more
from
russia,
so
that
may
actually
lighten
a
little
bit
of
some
of
the
demand
due
to
china
and
then
the
the
bottom
graph
is
really
that
that's
very
much
the
long-term
projection,
so
it's
very
uncertain,
but
what
you
can
see
is
that
the
projection
is
for
it
to
again
the
price
to
come
down.
E
Unfortunately,
there
is
also
a
great
deal
of
uncertainty,
as
you
can
tell
from
the
fact
that
there's
that
huge
upper
limit
on
the
estimate-
that's
very
unlikely,
to
happen.
However,
cole
we're
we're
seeing
a
forecast
for
increase
in
production
and
again
this
is
for
the
places
that
can
switch
to
coal
switching
to
coal
and
that
is
being
picked
up
by
western
coal,
primarily
and
then
it's
projected
into
going
into
next
year.
E
Hopefully,
as
natural
gas
prices
come
down,
unfortunately,
you'll
see
then
a
lightning
in
the
the
demand
for
coal
as
well,
and
those
losses
are
probably
going
to
be
from
the
appalachian
and
interior
basins
simply
because
the
economic
costs
for
that
coal
what's
causing
all
this.
E
E
That's
also
projected
to
continue,
although
that
is
likely
to
level
in
in
the
next
couple
of
years.
E
The
a
big
factor
in
coal
demand
is
replenishing.
The
power
sector
inventories
are
quite
low
and
also
high
prices
in
export.
You
know
when
germany
turned
off
its
nuclear
plants
and
switched
to
gas,
and
now
the
russians
are
turning
off
their
gas
they're.
Looking
back
to
coal
to
stabilize
their
electric
markets,
which
means
the
export
value
is
very
high
coal
consumption
again
there
is,
is
projected
to
come
down.
E
More
importantly,
right
now
is,
as
you
can
see,
from
the
the
blue
arrow
on
the
right,
the
draw
the
difference
between
our
average
inventories
and
where
we
are
today
we're
very
short
on
inventory
that
is
causing
issues
as
we
head
into
the
high
heating
days,
where
there's
more
demand
for
electricity.
E
E
When
we
look
at
electric
power,
this
is
very
general.
This
is
not
specific
to
kentucky.
We
see
again.
We
expect
that
consumption
is
going
to
continue
to
increase
predict,
particularly
over
like
2020,
and
that's
projected
to
be
a
slight
increase
in
both
2022
and
2023,
and
that,
with
all
the
other
factors
we've
talked
about.
Also,
then
leads
to
a
projection
that
you
know
the
the
residential
price
is
going
to
stay
the
same
or
have
some
volatility
not
wildly,
but
also
not
dropping
mid-range
trends.
E
We
are
seeing
very
rapid
decreases
in
the
cost
of
solar
energy.
The
just
in
the
cost
of
the
actual
capital
cost
of
installation
has
come
down
dramatically.
We
will
probably
continue
to
see
installation
of
solar
into
the
grid.
That's
fine!
As
far
as
it
goes,
however,
we
still
have
the
lack
of
storage
to
offset
that
being
intermittent
and
where
that
causes
pressures
on
the
cost
of
electricity.
E
Is
that
then
means
you're
again
falling
black
on
natural
gas
as
the
backup
that
can
be
turned
on
and
off
quickly
enough
to
deal
with
that
change,
and
so
that
can
the
low
cost
in
renewables
may
actually
cause
more
issues
and
uncertainty
in
that
market.
Interest
in
nuclear,
however,
does
continue
to
expand.
E
You
know
it
is
sort
of
the
rel
viewed
as
the
reliable,
carbon-free
base
load
that
can
offset
the
the
volatility
in
renewables.
If
we
are
looking
at
decarbonizing,
our
electric
power,
that's
going
to
be
a
bigger
issue.
Obviously,
if
we
choose
to
move
to
primarily
an
electric
transport
system,
demand
for
electricity
is
going
to
go
up,
it
has
to
come
from
somewhere,
and
so
that
will
stress
current
generation
capacity
and
that
will
need
to
be
handled.
E
Nuclear
is
viewed
there
as
a
as
a
quite
viable
option
in
that
it's
quite
it's
sustainable
long
term,
it's
low
carbon
or
no
carbon,
and
it
provides
a
base
load.
One
of
the
drivers
there.
As
well
is
the
newer
version
of
nuclear,
whether
it's
more
modern,
large-scale
plants
or
what's
gaining
a
lot
of
traction
are
small
modular
reactors.
E
These
are
manufacturable,
which
means
they
don't
have
to
be
completely
constructed
on
site
saving
the
economics
both
in
capital
and
in
installation,
and
we
are
seeing
large
growth
in
federal
investment
looking
at
continued
technology,
development
and
improvement
for
nuclear.
E
As
I
mentioned,
with
the
small
modular
reactors,
the
nuclear
regulatory
commission
has
approved
a
new
scale
powers,
smr
design,
which
means
it
can
be
implemented
and
the
cartoon
there
is
of
the
first
planned
installation.
It
would
be
12
of
their
units
installed
at
idaho
national
lab
to
run
the
local
power
grid
there.
E
So
just
summarizing
this
to
to
kind
of
put
it
all
in
one
spot.
Gasoline
and
diesel
costs
will
likely
ease
somewhat,
but
they're
going
to
remain
at
that
four
dollar
a
gallon
at
least
until
early
2023,
and
could
go
further.
It
is
a
downward
adjustment
that
is
expected,
however,
so
it
would
be
surprising
if
they
don't
lice
lighten.
G
E
There's
some
other
major
interruption.
Natural
gas
pricing
is
likely
to
remain
at
or
above
current
prices
as
we
get
into
the
first
quarter
of
2023,
but
the
settle
is
expected
to
be
near
five
dollars
for
gas.
Coal
probably
remains
at
its
current
demand
and
current
pricing,
but
again
that's
going
to
depend
on
how
exports
go
and
whether
we
can
make
up
the
inventory.
E
E
A
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
to
what
extent
is
the
inability
to
switch
from
gas
back
to
coal
being
driven
by?
I
guess
bureaucratic
policies
coming
out
of
washington
that
are
anti-coal.
E
C
A
E
If
it's
been
closed
long
enough
and
so
getting
those
kinds
of
funds,
if
you're
you
know
looking
to
federal
loan
agencies,
like
you
see
with
rural
co-ops,
it's
very
difficult
to
get
that
get
that
money.
B
Brief
follow-up,
mr
chairman,
and
is
that
due
to,
I
guess,
for
lack
of
a
better
term
bulk
policies
and
certain
banking
institutions
that
do
not
want
to
support
anything
but
green
energy
policies.
E
It
it's
more
hesitancy
in
those
markets
and
that
they're
concerned
that
if
they
invest
into
coal
and
then
we
go
back
to
something
like
the
clean
power
plan
where
those
plants
will
be
put
out,
they're
not
going
to
recoup
their
investment.
So
it
is
a
concern
about
federal
policy,
but
it's
not
necessarily
a
currently
enacted
policy.
It's
the
fear
of
a
future
policy.
B
And
just
briefly,
you
know,
I
lived
in
germany
for
a
year
very
clean
recycled,
focused
place
and
so
they're
actually
looking
to
switch
back
towards
coal.
At
this
point,
and
yet
we
in
the
united
states
are
having
policies
out
of
washington
that
would
discourage
such
such
activities.
E
That
is
a
pretty
reasonable
statement.
The
germany
had
moved
to
nuclear
and
then
with
change
in
its
government.
It,
you
know
about
six
seven
years
ago,
decided
to
back
away
from
nuclear
power
more
just
because
of
their
their
desire
to
go
green.
What
that
resulted
in
was
them
becoming
reliant
on
russian
gas
because
they
had
replaced
coal
with
nuclear.
E
Then
they
were
backing.
Then
they
had
brought
coal
back
on.
Then
they
decided
to
back
away
from
coal.
Then
they
went
to
gas
and
now
they're
sort
of
out
of
options,
and
so
they're.
Looking
at
how
to
you
know
if
they're
going
to
be
reliable,
at
least
for
the
amount
of
time
that
would
take
them
to
move
to.
E
You
know
a
much
higher
proportion
of
renewables
in
their
mix.
They're
they're,
lacking
base
load
now.
D
Dr
andrews,
I
think
that
there's
no
question
that
the
badly
administration
is
least
talking
about
forcing
companies
through
the
sec
and
and
to
actually
talk
about
when
they
make
investments
in
coal
or
they
they're
doing
these
other
things
that
they
have
to
provide
environmental
costs
and
other
things.
So
I
mean
I
I
would.
I
would
argue
that
there
there
are
policies
from
washington
that
is
causing
a
reluctance
for
power
for
the
banking
industry
in
the
finance
industry
to
loan
money
to
these
coal
plants.
E
Yes,
I
I
think
that's
that's
true.
I
think
the
the
the
largest
hesitancy
is
no
one
is
going
to
bankroll
a
new
plant
because
they're,
you
know
it's
too
unstable,
as
you
said
that
it's
becoming
more
and
more
complicated
the
capital
markets
don't
want
that
risk
simply
because
if
you
get
closed
they
lose
the
three
or
four
billion
dollars
they
put
into
it.
E
So
you
are
correct
that
many
of
those
policies
and
what
they're
doing
through
the
financial
markets
are
pushing
the
the
investors
away
from
any
investments
in
coal.
D
D
But
I
think
that
there
hasn't
been
a
new
refinery
built
in
this
country
since
the
mid
70s,
I
think
and
and
we're
about
to
get
to
the
point
where,
even
if
we
were
to
ramp
up
production
of
those
fuels
and
even
transport
it
through
the
pipelines
that
have
been
killed
by
this
administration,
whether
or
not
we
really
could
seriously
ramp
up
our
own
production
of
gas
and
diesel
and
motor
fuels.
E
The
it
is
a
concern,
as
I
mentioned,
you
know,
we're
we're
in
where
you
would
normally
be
doing
maintenance
and
we're
having
to
run
at
90
capacities.
So
if
we
have
a
refinery
go
down,
that
is
certainly
going
to
push
very
much
upward
on
the
prices
of
distillates.
E
We
have
not
built
a
new
refinery.
We
have
expanded
refineries
in
that
time
period,
so
we
do
have
refining
capacity
for
current
demand,
but,
as
you
know,
when
you're
at
90,
95
utilization,
there's
no
cushion
and
and
so
effectively,
we
are
running
up
against
running
out,
as
it
were,
of
that
capacity,
and
you
know
another
another
issue
that
goes
along
with.
E
That,
however,
is
that
we
export
refined
products,
we
export
gasoline,
we
export
natural
gas
liquids,
and
so
those
are
things
that
could
be
going
into
the
u.s
market
that
essentially
are
taking
away
from
domestic
refining,
because
we're
doing
that
we're
using
refining
capacity
to
do
it
and
then
we're
then
we're
exporting
so
there's
some
makeup
that
could
be
done
there
as
well.
A
Yeah
just
to
follow
up,
I
do
think
there
is
some
some
of
our
folks
in
congress
that
sort
of
have
a
bit
of
a
detachment
with
this.
You
recently
had
a
democrat
congresswoman
say
that
these
prices
would
force
families
into
buying
much
more
efficient
electrical
vehicles,
and
it
won't,
I
think
some
people
can,
but
I
think,
for
the
majority
people
that
are
already
struggling
pay.
A
These
bills
will
simply
cut
back
on
groceries
or
cut
back
on
other
things,
as
opposed
to
going
out
buying
a
35,
000
electric
car,
maybe
a
27
000
electric
car,
but
I
think
it
makes
it
tougher
and
an
undue
burden
on
a
lot
of
working
families
that
are
already
seeing
30
percent
cost
of
their
groceries
inflation.
To
probably
more
that
this
is
not
going
to
encourage
them
to
say
this
is
our
time
to
go,
get
a
hybrid
car.
A
I
think
it's
just
going
to
make
it
much
more
difficult
on
families
that
are
already
having
a
tough
time,
but
that's
my
own
opinion,
but
we
do
have
several
other
members.
We
have
three
other
members
that
have
questions
on
this.
We
also
have
kent
chandler.
That's
going
to
speak
next,
so
just
wanted
to
cue
everyone
in
of
our
time
and
that
there
will
be
a
lot
of
other
information
in
front
of
you.
But
next
is
representative
johnson.
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I
did
have
an
original
question,
but,
as
usual
chairman
cooch
is
one
step
ahead
and
asked
my
question,
but
I
will
follow
up.
I
do
have
a
follow-up
question
with
the
statement
that
the
chairman
just
made,
and
this
is
almost
simplistic,
but
what?
What
are
the
energy
sources
that
generate
the
electricity
for
electric
powered
vehicles.
E
E
When
I
mentioned
that
you
know
solar
is
cheap
and
we'll
see
more
installation.
You
have
to
remember
that
that's
marginal,
it's
two
percent
changes
in
long
term.
We're
not
going
to
be
solar
anytime
soon,
as
or
renewables
as
the
dominant
one.
If
the
price
of
gas
goes
up
to
25.
E
Like
is
that
worst
case
scenario,
you
might
see
a
lot
of
change
there,
but
right
now
the
mix
is
going
to
be
fossil
nuclear
and
then
renewables,
and
if
we're
switching
our
transportation
over
to
electric,
primarily
that
will
stress
all
of
that,
and
quite
honestly,
my
view
is
that
we
do
not
have
the
the
storage
capacity
currently
to
put
much
more
over
a
couple,
more
percent
of
renewables
into
the
grid
at
the
moment,
without
really
causing
issues
with
stability.
B
Thank
you
for
that
answer.
Quick
follow-up
comment.
I
would
just
I
just
wanted
to
point
out
that
for
those
who
think
that
electric
vehicles
is
the
answer
to
all
of
our
energy
problems,
those
electric
vehicles
have
to
get
electricity
from
somewhere
and
that
somewhere
are
the
very
same
sources
that
we're
curtailing.
Now
with
our
federal
policies,
and
that's
got
to
change,
we
need
to
pay
attention
to
what
the
people
are
going
through.
We
need
to
get
back
to
what
we
know
works,
which
is
an
all-of-the-above
answer
for
our
production
and
refinement
facilities.
B
C
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
a
quick
comment
and
then
a
question
for
dr
andrews.
Thank
you,
dr
andrews,
for
being
here
and
and
for
your
presentation.
Sadly,
I
don't
see
any
media
outlets
here.
They
tend
to
not
want
to
cover
facts.
You
know
one
of
the
things
that
you've
dispelled
for
us
here
today,
something
that
the
current
president
and
his
minions
in
the
fake
news
agenda
are
saying.
Well,
our
gas
prices
are
all
because
of
the
war
with
russia
and
ukraine.
We
know,
that's
not
true.
C
You've
said
that's
not
the
only
cause
of
the
gas
prices
being
where
they
are.
We
know
that
because
the
gas
prices
begin
they
inflate
prior
to
the
war
ever
beginning
over
there.
So
that's
that's
one
thing.
I
want
to
point
out
and
again
sadly,
no
media
here
to
cover
that
they
don't
want
the
people
to
be
well
informed.
They
want
them
to
be
informed
on
the
things
they
want
them
to
believe.
C
Secondly,
I
want
to
talk
about
our
energy
sectors.
Our
utilities
are
our
coal
fire
plants,
that's
disappearing
across
this
country
and,
and
part
of
that
goes
back
into
the
misinformation.
C
As
a
matter
of
fact,
I've
listened
to
one
expert
that
tells
us
that
we
are
actually
getting
more
of
our
pollution
is
coming
from
china
through
the
gulf
stream
into
the
united
states
and
what
we're
producing
ourselves.
So
why
aren't
we
sticking
with
our
coal
fire
plants
that
is
a
reliable
source
of
energy?
It's
a
cheaper
source
of
energy.
You
know
we
talk
about
these,
these
electric
vehicles.
C
If
we
went
all
electric
right
now,
we
couldn't
provide
the
electricity
to
charge
all
those
vehicles-
okay.
Well,
we
may
do
away
with
the
coal
mines,
but
we're
still
building
roads.
Show
me
a
dozer
big
enough
that
can
push
the
dirt
and
has
a
battery
capacity
that
will
run
that
dozer
to
do
the
job.
We
have
now
it
doesn't
exist.
C
Unfortunately,
people
are
living
in
a
utopia,
and
my
question
is
how
long
before
this
bur
bubble
is
going
to
burst
and
people's
going
to
realize
we've
got
to
be
dependent
like
we
originally
were
on
our
fossils
and
stop
being
so
blindly
following
after
this
renewable
stuff.
That's
just
not
there!
Yet
I'm
not
saying
it
won't
get
there
eventually,
but
it's
certainly
not
there.
Yet.
E
The
I
think,
probably
the
the
thing
that
can
put
some
perspective
on
that
is
estimates
for
us
to
begin
to
see
any
substantial
battery
storage
going
into
the
grid.
So
what
we
would
expect
to
be
seeing
not
hydra,
not
pumped
hydro,
which
we
do
now
and
all
that
we're
between
10
and
15
years
away
from
that
to
begin
to
be
a
substantial.
E
It's
sunny
14
hours
a
day
and
you
don't
have
a
whole
lot
of
change
throughout
the
year
and
you're
willing
to
pay
the
the
prices
for
natural
gas.
But,
through
you
know
the
remainder
of
the
economy.
We
we
can't
move
much
beyond
a
few
more
percent
until
we
do
run
up
against
what
you're
saying
and
if
we
totally
electrify
transport,
that's
one
third,
more
power
that
would
have
to
come
from
electricity,
that's
not
likely
to
happen.
E
So
we
we
are.
You
know
at
a
point
where
we
can't
just
suddenly
turn
a
switch.
The
estimates
of
doing
that
of
going
to
all
renewables
are
around
four
to
seven
trillion
dollars.
E
So
you
know
when,
when
they
would
say
that
we
need
an
apollo
program
for
energy,
the
apollo
program
costs
less
than
a
trillion
dollars
and
we're
talking
five
times
that
to
seven
times
that,
if
we
just
abandon
what
we're
doing
now,.
A
I
A
Want
to
add
that
when
you,
when
people
don't
have
access
to
power-
and
I
saw
this
in
my
time
in
china
when
you
when
they
began
to
shut
off
the
power
and
brown
down
to
get
ready
for
the
games
for
the
us
olympics,
I
think
they
thought
that
would
help
them
by
cleaning
up
and
making
it
look
better.
But
you
know
what
happened.
Everybody
that
I
went
to
visit
took
me
back
in
some
part
of
their
property
and
showed
me
their
brand
new
caterpillar
generators
that
they
had.
A
So
what
they
created
was
a
a
toxic
solution.
Pollution
rate
that
they'd
never
seen
before
it
triggered
a
point.
What
was
called
crazy
bad
and
the
programming
network
there
for
how
bad
the
air
quality
was.
So
when,
when
you
have
a
country
like
the
united
states
who,
when
we
don't
start
having
these
brownouts
and
people
start
losing
power,
a
lot
of
people
are
not
going
to
accept
that
they're
going
to
go
out,
they're
going
to
have
their
j
they're
going
to
have
power.
A
What
will
happen
and
you'd
mentioned
earlier
about
banks
and
people
don't
want
to
do
the
the
funding
for
these
fossil
plants,
because
the
risk-
and
I
want
to
clear
that
up,
not
because
the
risk
of
the
technology
of
the
fossil
fuel
risk
of
the
banana
republic
atmosphere.
That's
in
the
united
states
right
now
that
you
may
have
a
president
come
in
that
could
disrupt
the
policy
and
cause
you
to
lose.
A
Your
investment,
which
is
what's
happened
to
many
of
our
investors
years
ago
in
venezuela
and
a
lot
of
other
countries
that
they
invested
and
built
out
to
have
a
entire
new
regime
come
in
and
just
take
all
your
your
investment
and
and
destroy
it.
So
now
we're
at
a
point
where
you
almost
have
to
have
this
sort
of
banana
republic
insurance
to
be
a
energy
investor
in
the
united
states,
which
is
which
is
sad.
But
I
think
it's
a
unique
point.
I
think
that
that
we
are
very
capable.
A
I
think
we
have
the
technology
and
the
type
of
people
to
solve
the
problem.
You
said
the
apollo
problem
or
expenses
for
that
I
saw
where
elon
musk
had
spent
less
on
one
of
his
rockets
than
what
nasa
spent
on
their
christmas
party.
I
think
what
we
need
is
more
people
like
elon
musk,
to
be
able
to
do
stuff
that
we
used
to
do
here
in
this
country.
The
greatest
generation
built
buildings
and
did
stuff
because
they
didn't
have
amp
shed
a
lot
of
these
other,
and
I
was
really
unempty.
A
They
didn't
have
all
the
government
bureaucracy
in
their
way
and
they
were
able
to
do
great
things,
and
I
think
that
we
have
got
the
mindset
in
our
colleges
and
our
schools
of
people
that
are
like
elon
musk
that
can
challenge
these
numbers
and
can
do
things
much
cheaper,
much
more
affordable.
If
we
would
simply
get
out
of
their
way
and
let
a
lot
of
these
people
challenge
the
system
the
way
it
is
right
now,
so
I
feel
we've
got
capable
people
in
our
universities
and
our
businesses
that
can
help
us
solve
the
energy
problem.
A
If
the
government
would
often
step
out
of
their
way
or
quit
regulating
them
or
get
our
hand
off
the
scale
for
trying
to
decide
on
what
we
think
is
best
instead
of
letting
the
market
and
the
engineers
and
the
people
that
understand
this
stuff
really
be
turned
loose
at
the
genius
that
makes
america
great.
So
again,
that's
my
soapbox
for
now,
but
I
will
turn
it
over
to
representative
prunty
who's.
Our
last
question
on
this.
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
for
your
work.
I
deeply
respect
it
on
page
three.
It
was
of
the
handout
you
were
talking
about.
You
kept
saying.
The
crude
oil
inventories
were
way
down.
My
dad
was
a
pipe
fitter
for
39
years,
so
I
kind
of
catch
just
my
interest.
I'm
just
wondering
why
I
didn't
hear
the
why,
in
your
presentation,.
E
E
That
didn't
just
impact
europe
itself,
but
it
also
impacted
the
the
global
flows,
because
you
had
redirection
into
different
places.
You
had
places
that
were
putting
oil
into
europe
rather
than
other
places,
and
so
that
just
has
dropped.
Those
inventories
and
part
of
that
is
that
normally
we
would
be
refilling
them
through
the
lower
travel
months.
So
what
would
normally
be
like
q1?
E
You
would
be
be
refilling
inventories,
and
we
didn't
do
that
because
we
were
exporting
it.
Okay,.
A
Good,
dr
andrews,
thank
you
very
much
for
your
time.
We
appreciate
you
joining
us
at
this
time
we're
going
to
move
straight
on
to
kent
chandler.
I
think
kent's
online
with
us
ken
thank
you
for
holding,
and
we
appreciate
you
taking
time
out
to
be
with
us
today.
I
know
you're
you're,
currently
out
of
the
state,
I
think,
trying
to
have
some
family
time.
So
we
appreciate
you
sharing
that
with
us
and
we'll
turn
it
straight
over
to
you.
A
F
I
appreciate
you
having
me
chairman:
can
you
all
see
my
presentation.
A
F
Okay,
great
all
right,
so
in
the
future.
I
just
request
chairman
that
maybe
I
can
go
after
dr
andrews
one
of
these
days.
It's
a
it's
a
tough
tough
presentation
to
follow,
but
thanks
for
having
me,
you
had
requested
me
to
come
today.
I
think
to
follow
up
on
some
of
the
information
that
dr
andrews
provided
and
kind
of
give
a
insight
into
what
is
what
is
the
information
that
he
provided?
F
What
kind
of
impact
does
that
have
on
utility
regulation
on
our
in-use
utility
customers
here
in
the
state
so
I'll
skip
through?
Most
of
you
all
know,
what
the
public
service
commission
is:
we're
a
three-member
commission,
independent
commission,
that's
tucked
into
the
energy
and
environment
cabinet
for
administrative
purposes.
F
We
regulate
utilities
in
the
state,
with
the
exception
of
municipal
utilities
and
those
distribution,
cooperatives
that
receive
power
from
the
tennessee
valley
authority
and
the
only
jurisdiction
that
we
have
over
municipal
utilities
are
for
wholesale
rates
that
they
charge
water
wholesale
rates
they
charge
to
utilities
we
do
regulate
and
and
those
systems
for
gas
safety,
so
at
a
at
a
fairly
high
level,
we'll
get
into
some
details
in
a
minute.
But
these
trends
and
issues
and
impacts
that
dr
andrews
was
discussing.
F
I
would
say
obviously
impact
everyday
rates,
how
they
impact
those
rates
in
the
short
term
and
long
term
are
through
a
few
of
the
items
that
we
deal
with
at
the
commission.
The
first
is
the
fuel
adjustment
clause,
which
I'm
sure
most
you
are
aware
of,
especially
over
the
last
six
to
nine
months
that
the
fuel
adjustment
cause
charges
on
on
customers,
bills
have
certainly
increased
as
wholesale
power
costs
and
fuel
costs
have
increased,
integrated
resource
plans.
We
conduct
these.
F
These
are
triannual
reviews
of
utilities,
current
resources
to
serve
customers
and
what
their
plans
are
in
the
future
for
those
resources,
certificates
of
public
convenience
and
necessity.
Those
are
certificates
that
utilities
must
receive
prior
to
extending
service
or
at
a
basic
level
before
they
build
power
plants
and
significant
transmission
facilities,
and
then,
of
course,
rate
cases
and
I'll
discuss
the
first
three.
Today
the
fuel
adjustment
clause
regulation
has
been
in
effect
for
more
than
40
years.
F
Prior
to
the
regulation,
there
was
a
fuel
adjustment
clause
that
utilities
had
all
the
way
back
into
the
1950s,
but
those
fuel
adjustment
clause
mechanisms
were
just
in
embedded
in
the
utilities,
tariffs
that
include
the
charges
that
they're
allowed
to
pass
through.
In
the
1970s
there
was
significant
volatility
and
fuel
costs,
so
the
commission
looked
at
just
not
taking
those
facs
those
fuel
adjustment
clauses
out
of
the
tariff
but
sort
of
codifying
them
in
regulation
to
provide-
I
guess,
more
guard
rails
on
how
those
costs
will
be
reviewed
and
regulated.
F
So
the
fuel
adjustment
clause
at
a
high
level
allows
jurisdictional
utilities
to
reflect
the
incremental
or
detrimental
cost
of
purchase,
power
and
fuel.
So
each
month
the
electric
utility
that
has
you
know
generating
facilities
will
have
incurred
some
level
of
fuel
costs,
whether
that
be
fuel,
oil
or
oil,
distillate
or
natural
gas
or
coal,
and
in
a
subsequent
month
they're
allowed
to
pass
that
cost
through
to
customers.
F
Just
to
give
you
all
an
idea,
kentucky
utilities
had
about
1.6
billion
dollars
in
retail
sales
in
2021,
and
in
that
year
they
incurred
about
500
million
dollars
worth
of
fuel
costs.
So
you're,
looking
at
about
a
third
of
the
cost
and
since
rates
are
cost-based
you're
looking
at
about
a
third
of
ku's
costs
in
2021,
were
exclusively
related
to
fuel,
but
fuel
expenses
can
can
fluctuate
wildly
we've
kind
of
been
lucky.
F
I
guess
I
say
since
the
late
2000s
early,
you
know,
probably
the
last
10
or
15
years
that
fuel
prices
have
have
not
been
volatile
that
especially
natural
gas
prices
have
have
really
been.
If
there
is
any
volatility
it
was
to
the
downside.
That's
not
necessarily
been
the
case
of
the
last
year
for
a
number
of
the
reasons
that
dr
andrews
mentioned.
F
F
You
know
historic
experience
on
what
fuel
costs
are
and
whether
or
not
current
fuel
costs
are
below
or
above
that
amount
will
determine
whether
the
kilowatt
hour
surcharge
is
a
positive
or
a
negative
credit.
So
utilities
are
required
to
fully
document
all
their
fuel
costs.
It
is
a
significant
undertaking
for
each
utility
and
the
reason
for
that
is
because
we
at
the
public
service
commission
review
all
that
documentation.
F
I'll
say,
improperly
conducted
their
fuel
procurement
if
either
of
those
are
the
case
either
in
the
six
month
or
the
two
year
reviews
the
public
service
commission
under
the
field
adjustment
calls,
can
disallow
recovery
of
costs
and
refund
that
to
customers,
so
integrated
resource
plans
are-
and
this
is
my
best
way
of
describing
them
without
putting
the
regulation
down,
but
these
plans,
the
regulation
for
the
plans
prescribes
rules
and
regular
reporting
to
the
commission
for
its
review
of
load
forecasts
and
resource
plans
of
electric
utilities
that
show
how
they're
going
to
meet
future
demand
with
an
adequate,
reliable
supply
of
power
within
their
service
territories.
F
It's
a
significant
amount
of
information
that
goes
into
these
a
lot
of
data,
historical
projected
usage
information
on
the
cost
of
resources
in
the
past.
How
much
it's
expected
to
run
how
much,
how
much
those
resources
are
expected
to
cost
to
run
in
the
future
and
then
whether
or
not
those
the
systems
are
performing?
F
Well,
whether
or
not
you
know,
a
power
plant
is
running
at
only
20
capacity,
because
it's
broken
all
the
time
or
you
know
whether
it's
running
all
the
time,
because
it's
really
really
efficient,
very
cheap
irps
include
a
summary
of
planned
resource
acquisition
or
builds
new
power
plants
that
may
or
may
not
be
necessary
and
transmission
improvements
that
can
deliver
electricity
to
certain
areas
or
provide
for
additional
reliability.
F
It
really
the
output
of
an
integrated
resource
plan
is
only
as
good
as
the
input
of
data
used
in
creating
that
plan.
So
when
you're,
looking
at
what
your
expectations
are
around
fuel
costs,
o
m
expenses,
environmental
and
operational
costs
all
of
these,
and
what
data
is
used,
can
play
a
huge
role
in
what
the
plans
actually
recommend
going
forward
for
for
serving
customers,
so
certificates
of
public
convenience
necessity.
F
F
The
burden
of
proof
lies
with
the
utility,
and
it
has
to
show
that
that
there's
a
need
for
the
proposed
facility
and
an
absence
of
wasteful
duplication.
F
The
utility
has
to
indicate
that
it's
reviewed
all
reasonable
options,
as
well
as
various
including
various
types
of
new
facilities,
for
instance,
if
it's
power
plant
and
it
has
to
be
the
least
cost
most
reasonable
outcome.
So
if
you're
looking
at
saying
one
power
plant
has
has
met
the
end
of
its
useful
life
and
it
needs
to
be
replaced,
this
review
will
not
just
look
at
least
costs
in
and
of
itself.
F
It
will
take
into
consideration
things
like
risk
if,
if
a
natural
gas
facility
is
expected
to
be
the
least
cost
resource
in
year
one,
but
the
expectation
is
that
natural
gas
costs
or
natural
gas
prices
will
increase
significantly
more
than
the
other
inputs
into
the
other
types
of
resources.
Another
resource
that
may
be
more
expensive
might
actually
be
chosen
just
because
of
that
increased
risk
of
of
that
fuel
input.
F
So
a
couple
of
considerations
here
again
plant
retirements
end
of
useful
life,
sometimes
it's
more
expensive,
and
this
is
usually
the
reason
that
power
plants
retires,
because
the
cost
of
continuing
to
operate
the
power
plant
is
actually
more
expensive
than
replacing
the
generation
with
something
else.
F
F
One
of
the
reasons
that
most
of
our
power
plants
have
retired
over
the
last-
let's
say
15
20
years
have
been
because
of
current
or
anticipated
environmental
regulations,
whether
or
not
they
can
cost
effectively
employ
some
sort
of
environmental
mitigation
and
if
they
can't
send
their
retirement
and
some
sort
of
replacement,
the
technical
viability
and
cause
of
emerging
technologies.
I
know
you
will
hear
some
about
nuclear
today
that
certainly,
as
dr
andrews
noted,
becoming
a
bit
more
pertinent
conversation
these
days.
F
If,
if
the
only
option
for
nuclear
is
an
ap1000
unit
such
as
the
one
southern
company
is
building
in
georgia,
which
is
about
2300
megawatts
at
a
cost
of
approximately
30
billion
dollars,
none
of
our
utilities-
maybe
none
of
our
utilities
combined,
could
afford
to
build
those.
But
if
we're
talking
about
units
that
cost
something
like
700
million
or
a
billion
dollars
that
that
may
be
more
in
the
realm
of
possibility
and
then
you,
you
also
have
different
other
other
considerations,
purchase
power
versus
steel
on
the
ground.
F
As
I
noted
in
my
last
presentation,
I
think
in
front
of
this
committee
in
the
fall
last
fall.
I
have
an
interest,
at
least
as
long
as
I'm
on
the
commission
that
our
utilities
have
enough
generating
capacity
to
meet
their
internal
demand.
I
I
don't
have
any
anticipation
of
of
our
utilities
being
able
to
lean
on
markets
and
be
subject
more
to
market
forces
than
they
even
are
today.
F
F
Again,
wind
is
hard
to
site
in
kentucky,
given
our
our
topography,
solar,
although
it
has
been
certainly
there's
a
lot
of
interest
in
doing
solar
in
kentucky.
But,
as
dr
andrews
noted
it
solar
is
about
providing
at
this
point
cheap
electricity,
it's
not
necessarily
being
able.
You
can't
really
depend
on
it
for
providing
reliability
in
all
hours
or
that
capacity.
That's
required
all
the
time.
Nuclear
again
you
all.
There
are
people
smarter,
but
know
more
about
nuclear
than
I
do.
F
They'll
be
able
to
talk
to
you
about
that
today,
but
it's
certainly
an
emerging
conversation,
cole,
going
back
to
senator
wheeler's
question.
It's
just
it's
pretty
much
impossible
to
finance.
Even
if
you
can
meet
in
environmental
regulations,
natural
gas
is
often
the
most
is
the
least
cost
resource
in
in
terms
of
generation
modeling,
but
again,
there's
a
significant
amount
of
risk
around
the
volatility
of
fuel
because
it
can't
be
stored
like
coal.
F
Can
you
can't
have
60
days
of
fuel
for
a
natural
gas
plant,
like
you,
can
60
days
of
fuel
of
a
coal
plant
sitting
the
side
of
it,
and
it's
also
harder
every
year
to
site
infrastructure
and-
and
you
have
to
ask
yourself
how
long
with
with
outstanding
or
the
possibility
of
environmental
regulations?
How
long
will
those
natural
gas
plants
actually
be
around
and
again
batteries?
You
know
dr
andrews
is
talking
about
chemical
batteries
or
a
number
of
years
off.
F
I
think
there's
even
more
interest
today
than
ever
in
things
like
hydro
batteries,
pumped
pumped
hydro
or
loot,
hydro
batteries
that
that
have
been
out
there
for
decades
now
and
operating
successfully
for
decades
and
again,
hydrogen
not
yet
proven
to
be
cost
effective.
But
it's
certainly
again
going
back
to
nuclear
at
the
forefront
of
emerging
conversations,
and
then
I
just
included
this
for
everybody's
benefit.
F
F
My
expectation
is
that
the
coal
percentage
is
going
to
be
higher
and
the
natural
gas
percentage
is
going
to
be
lower
and
for
no
other
reason,
then
the
reason
the
natural
gas
production
was
so
high
over
the
past
decade,
but
certainly
in
the
past
year
is
because
of
the
two
or
three
dollar
gas,
whereas
it's
it
was
nine
yesterday,
the
day
before,
but
it's
a
little
over
eight
and
a
half
now
so
again,
chairman
smith,
thanks
for
having
me
I'm
happy
to
talk
to
anybody
answer
any
questions
today
or
certainly
respond
to
anybody
after
the
fact
or
any
written
questions,
people
may
have
down
the
road.
A
B
Mr
chandler,
one
of
the
common
questions
and
concerns
I
receive
from
constituents
involves
broadband,
and
I
know
the
psc
is
taking
a
new
role
in
that,
and
the
general
assembly
has
appropriated
significant
sums
for
broadband
deployment.
Could
you
give
some
insight
on
what
your
agency's
role
is
in
broadband
and
the
deployment
thereof.
F
Yeah,
it's
fairly
limited,
so
we
were
given
the
the
only
role.
Well,
let
me
take
a
step
back.
The
the
two
primary
roles
of
the
public
service
commission
would
play
is
well.
The
second
one
was
admitted
in
this
last
journal
last
session
of
the
general
assembly.
The
first
one
is
that
the
public
service
commission
is
designated
to
operate,
as
I
believe
it's
the
fcc's
designee
for
determining
of
the
opportunity
for
certain
broadband
providers
to
take
from
the
federal
universal
service
fund
that
provides
monthly
assistance
for
for
broadband.
F
It's
it's
kind
of
an
in
the
weeds
issue,
but
it's
for
low-income
customers
and
their
ability
to
provide
either
cellular
assistance
or
broadband
assistant.
So
that's
the
first
small
role
that
we
play
in
authorizing
those
certain
telecommunications
providers
to
take
from
the
universal
service
fund.
The
second
is
limited
to
electoral
distribution
cooperatives.
F
The
public
service
commission
regulates
distribution
cooperatives
that
do
not
get
their
power
from
the
tennessee
valley
authority,
full
rate
and
service
regulation
based
on
house
bill
320
from
the
2021
general
assembly.
F
The
electric
utilities
could
the
electric
distribution
distribution
cooperatives
could
create
subsidiaries
affiliated
subsidiaries
that
could
provide
broadband
and
that
there
were
a
couple
roles
that
the
public
service
commission
could
play,
whether
it
was
to
allow
the
electric
utility
to
borrow
money
and
use
that
to
help
fund
the
affiliate
that
does
broadband
or
even
allow
the
utility
to
build
out
a
fiber
network
and
then
lease
the
excess
capacity
to
that
affiliate.
There
was
a
bill
in
the
last
general
assembly
that
narrowed
the
commission's
regulation
over
that.
F
So
now
the
commission
only
needs
to
provide
one
of
those
certificates
of
public
to
me
as
a
necessity
for
the
utility
to
build
out
a
fiber
network
for
electric
purposes.
But
if
the
as
I
read
the
law,
if
the
electric
utility,
the
electric
distribution
cooperative,
is
going
to
build
a
fiber
network
exclusively
for
broadband
purposes
and
won't
be
using
them
for
electric
purposes
that
a
cpcn
may
not
be
necessary.
B
Brief
follow-up
was
the
public
service
commission
involved
in
any.
F
Yeah,
so
we
have
a
case
in
front
of
us
that
that
was
initiated
last
year
and
is
submitted
to
the
commission
for
a
decision
from
kenergy.
In
order
for
them
to
provide
build
out
a
fiber
network
in
a
cpc
and
for
a
fiber
network
and
provide.
F
To
lease
that
at
least
that
access
to
an
affiliate
for
that
affiliate
to
be
able
to
provide
broadband
service,
so
that's
in
front
of
us
now
awaiting
a
decision
separate
from
that
house.
Bill
320
for
the
2021
session
required
that
the
public
service
commission,
promulgate
regulations
regarding
poll
attachments
and
those
poll
attachments.
F
It
was
about,
I
don't
know,
maybe
four
or
five
dozen
pages
of
brand
new
poll
attachment
regulations
and
we
specifically
defined
what
a
broadband
provider
was,
and
I
think
that
that
was
I'll,
say
well
received
by
both
electric
utilities
and
broadband
providers
for
for
putting
more
on
paper.
I
guess
in
terms
of
what
the
expectations
are
moving
forward
around
pull
attachment
poll
attachments,
especially
broadband
pull
attachments.
A
A
A
A
And
we
have
senator
carol,
you
have
two
other
guests:
that'll
be
joining
us
via
remote.
Is
that
correct
that
cracked
excuse
me.
J
Mr
chairman,
real
quickly,
I'm
just
going
to
set
the
stage
for
this,
I'm
going
to
step
away
to
allow
our
guests
as
much
time
as
possible
if
we
do
have
time
at
the
end,
I'll
close
it
out
this
meeting,
and
these
folks
being
here
is
a
result
of
conversations
that
began
last
year,
initiated
by
a
young
man
named
julian
colvin.
J
J
We
didn't
really
take
too
seriously
in
the
beginning,
but
once
we
talked
to
him,
I
was
sold
a
very
impressive
young
man
from
central
kentucky
who
has
an
interest
in
nuclear
energy
and
is
doing
what
he
can
from
his
position
to
further
that
within
the
commonwealth
we
ended
up
in
a
conversation
with
christine
king
with
the
idaho
national
lab
and
she
will
be
presenting
and
some
other
things
have
spawned
out
of
that.
This
is
the
first
step
in
an
effort
to
educate
the
legislature
on
advanced
technologies
and
nuclear
energy.
J
We
lifted
the
nuclear
moratorium
in
kentucky
a
few
years
ago
with
the
leeper
act,
my
predecessor,
who
worked
many
years
in
that
effort,
and
sometimes
it
happens
for
no
reason
things
just
break
loose
and
we
were
able
to
get
that
bill
passed
right
now.
This
is
the
first
step,
we're
looking
on
bringing
a
large-scale
nuclear
seminar
to
kentucky
and
hopefully
to
develop
some
type
of
association
with
one
of
these
entities,
perhaps
today
that
we'll
be
presenting
to
have
a
an
entity
within
the
commonwealth,
that
is
pushing
nuclear
energy.
J
So
that's
one
of
the
steps
that
we're
doing
and
then
we're
also
working
with
christine
king
in
an
effort
to
get
funding
to
do
a
study
within
the
commonwealth
related
to
the
feasibility
of
nuclear
energy.
So
a
lot
going
on,
we
didn't
do
much
for
several
years
after
the
moratorium
was
lifted
simply
because
of
the
prices
of
gas
and
and
those
being
so
inexpensive,
and
there
was
no
need
for
the
competition.
J
I'm
convinced
that
nuclear
is
the
the
baseload
energy
of
the
future
in
this
country
and
it's
exciting
the
technology
that
is
being
developed
at
this
time
and-
and
these
folks
will
tell
you
a
lot
more
about
that
and
mr
chairman
I'll
step
away
and
if
we.
A
H
Okay
good
afternoon-
and
my
name
is
bob
dc-
I'm
the
senior
vice
president
with
tennessee
valley
authority,
and
I
want
to
thank
you
all
for
having
us
here
today.
H
Tva
in
the
state
of
kentucky
we've
been,
we've
had
a
great
partnership
over
the
last
many
many
years
and
friendship,
and
we
look
forward
to
continuing
that
and
I'd
like
to
introduce
my
cohort
here.
G
H
I
think
listening
to
a
lot
of
the
comments
from
dr
andrews
is
a
great
lead
into
tva's
new
nuclear
program
that
we're
about
to
undertake
a
little
bit
about
myself.
I
introduced
myself.
I've
been
with
the
tennessee
valley
authority
for
15
years.
I've
done
a
lot
of
work
up
here
in
kentucky.
I
have
done
a
lot
of
maintenance
and
modification
work
on
our
coal
fleet.
H
I
have
built
the
new
natural
gas
combined
cycle
plants
out
at
the
paradise
plant.
I
have
been
involved
with
a
lot
of
the
tornado
recoveries
that
happened
this
past
year
out
in
the
western
part
of
the
state,
so
very
familiar
with
the
state
of
kentucky,
and
now
I'm
focused
here
on
the
new
nuclear
program
at
tva.
H
H
H
A
good
example
is
next
week
in
the
tennessee
valley
authority
region,
we're
looking
at
probably
peak
days
of
30
000
megawatts
proud
to
say
that
tva
does
have
the
generation
and
the
capacity
to
be
able
to
serve
that
30
000
megawatts
of
power
that
will
be
needed
for
the
tennessee
valley
authority.
So
as
we
continue
to
grow.
H
If
you
look
at
this
first
slide
here,
it
really
talks.
A
lot
about
what
dr
angels
had
talked
about.
The
blue
line
is
a
the
growth.
We
have
a
lot
of
growth
within
the
tennessee
valley
authority
and
we're
also
challenged
with
reducing
our
carbon.
Now
our
carbon,
we
have
reduced
our
carbon
over
63
percent
since
2005
to
2020,
and
we
do
have
aggressive
goals
to
continue
to
reduce
carbon
and
that
is
through
plant
retirements
and
also
adding
on
renewables.
H
However,
when
we
reduce
our
carbon
footprint,
we
can
get
to
a
point
about
80
percent
by
2035
by
2035
to
get
to
being
carbon
free
by
2050.
That
last
20
percent
is
our
biggest
challenge,
so
we're
out
here
exploring
the
different
technologies
that
are
available.
We're
looking
at
small
modular
nuclear
reactors
we're
looking
at
our
hydro
fleet.
What
can
we
do
more
with
our
hydro
fleet,
whether
it's
additional
pump
storage?
H
H
So
tva's
nuclear
power
and
construction
expertise,
we
do
have
the
third
largest
fleet
in
the
united
states,
tva's
watch
bar
unit
2,
which
is
the
nation's
first
new
nuclear
power
generation
in
20
years
that
entered
into
commercial
operations
in
2016.
H
H
So
we're
here
today
for
talk
a
little
bit
about
small
module
reactors.
We
we
have
a
site
called
the
clinch
river
nuclear
project.
It's
down
in
oak
ridge,
tennessee.
This
cartoon
here
on
the
screen
depicts
a
the
size
of
a
small
modular
reactor
you
could
probably
fit
in
in
a
football
field.
It's
a
very
passive
plant.
The
technology
that
we're
looking
at
is
is
they
called
the
ge
hitachi,
it's
a
x
300,
but
it's
just
technology
that
we're
continuing
to
explore.
We
have
not
made
a
full
commitment
on
it.
However.
H
We
believe
it
is
probably
the
best
available
technology.
That's
out
there
in
the
market.
Today,
I'm
gonna
have
joe
if
you'd
like
to
speak
a
little
bit
about
it.
Joe
joe
did
a
lot
of
the
technology
selection
for
us
as
we
looked
it
out
there.
But
again
we
haven't
made
our
commitment
yet,
but
this
is
one
of
the
ones
that
tva
has
taken
very
serious.
G
Yeah,
certainly
thanks
bob,
so
tva
has
been
actively
looking
at
advanced
nuclear
technologies.
Even
while
we
were.
A
G
G
Looking
for
something
that
would
be
fit
within,
the
transmission
system
needs
more
able
to
follow,
load,
maybe
more
able
to
adapt
to
renewables
and
and
be
complementary
to
those,
and
in
doing
that,
we
looked
at
over
a
dozen
different
technologies
from
variations
of
the
current
generations
of
light
water
cooled
reactors
to
many
of
the
innovative
designs
that
are
being
funded
by
the
federal
government
and
private
investment.
G
And,
as
I
mentioned,
we
looked
at
over
a
dozen
of
those,
and
our
perspective
was
that
if
we
wanted
to
move
ahead
with
the
next
generation
on
the
system,
we
wanted
to
look
at
technologies
that
had
the
least
least
technology
risk.
The
least
financial
risk,
at
least
construction
project
risk.
And
out
of
that
was
our
conclusion,
as
bob
alluded
to
that
a
variation
of
a
an
existing
light
water
reactor,
the
ge
product
that
bob
mentioned
was
our
near-term
focus.
A
And
I'm
sorry,
just
a
quick
question
are
you
did?
Did
you?
Are
you
all
using
thorium
reactors?
Is
that
what
your
current
technology
is
or
I
I
was
listening
to
see
which
one
you'd
actually
chose
and
I'm
sorry
chairman
gooch
has
notified
me
that
he's
got
another
beating,
so
I
might
have
missed
that
part.
H
Okay,
excellent,
so
we
have,
we
have
an
early
site
permit
and
to
begin
on
the
process
of
putting
a
small
module
reactor
down.
You
have
to
first
go
for
an
early
site.
Permit
that
can
take
a
number
of
years.
H
Tva
has
the
first
early
site
permit
in
the
united
states
today
and
it's
located
down
at
our
clinton
river
facility,
which
is
in
oak
ridge
tennessee
that
site
it
was
a
site
of
a
former
tva
nuclear
plant,
a
breeder.
It
was
called
a
clinch
breeder
reactor
that
tva
abandoned
back
in
the
1980s
when
we
abandoned
quite
a
few
other
nuclear
plants
that
were
under
construction.
H
H
In
order
for
us
to
do
that,
we
had
to
do
a
programmatic
environmental
impact
statement,
and
that
impact
statement
is
where
we
look
at
the
site.
We
look
at
what
technology
could
be
placed
there
and
the
impacts
it
could
have
to
the
environment,
so
we're
in
the
process
of
doing
that
impact
statement
now
and
we'll
be
releasing
that
sometime.
This
fall.
H
In
order
to
a
little
bit
about,
how
do
you
get
there
to
put
a
actually
get
a
small
module
reactor
well
through
the
process,
we're
in
what
we
call
our
decision?
Gate
number
one
you'll
see
that
it's
on
the
left-hand
side
of
the
screen-
and
this
is
where
we
look
into
the
design,
the
type
of
a
design
that
will
select
the
licensing.
H
We
have
to
gather
a
lot
of
information,
a
lot
of
studies,
seismic
hydrology,
different
evaluations
that
are
out
there.
We
put
it
together
in
a
package
to
get
ready
to
submit
what
we
would
need,
call
a
construction
permit,
application
to
the
nrc
and
then
we're
also
in
the
estimating
we're
looking
at.
How
much
is
this
going
to
cost?
Can
we
do
it?
We
look
at
supply
chain.
We
look
at
scheduling
one
of
the
things
before
we
go
forward
with
what
we
call
decision.
H
Gate
2,
we'll
have
to
go
back
to
the
tva
board
of
directors
and
say:
we've
done
extensive
studies
on
this
site.
We
looked
at
the
cost.
You
know.
Is
this
cost
effective?
We've
looked
at
the
technology
selection?
Is
this
the
right
technology
for
us
to
move
forward
with
now
the
the
cost
may
be,
may
may
not
be
cost
effective
for
us
to
move
forward,
or
it
could
so
we
have
a
decision
gate
at
that
point.
H
We
have
an
off
ramp
or
we
could
delay
the
project,
but
in
order
for
us
to
move
forward,
if
we
were
to
submit
a
construction
permit
application
at
design
gate
2,
I
always
tell
everyone
before
we
could
put
a
shovel
in
the
ground
if
we're
going
to
build
a
small
module
reactor
it's
about
four
years
from
today.
So
it's
it's
a
bit
of
a
long
process
because
of
the
regulatory
process
that
we
have
to
follow.
The
planning
and
the
studying
that
we
have
to
do.
H
This
just
can't
be
another
nuclear
project
that
runs
over
budget
or
behind
schedule.
This
is
a
project
that,
if
we're
going
to
do
it
we're
going
to
make
a
commitment
to
it
that
it's
going
to
we
have
it
well
laid
out
that
we
can
meet
the
cost,
that
we
can
meet
the
schedule
and
we
have
selected
the
right
technology
that
that
concludes
our
presentation.
A
Appreciate
the
senator
carol
working
this
out-
and
this
has
had
a
very
rich
history
in
the
state
of
kentucky,
as
he
mentioned
earlier,
senator
leiper
had
petitioned
for
many
years
to
be
able
to
get
this
voted
out
of
the
senate.
I
think
it
was
not
until
2008
that
it
was
finally
taken
up
to
move
out,
but
he
was
just
an
ardent
supporter
of
the
technology
and
I'd
say
he
still
is
so.
I
appreciate
senator
carroll,
picking
it
up
and
carrying
it
in
his
tenure,
so
very,
very
important
issue.
A
I
think
it's
probably
on
people's
radar
more
now
because
of
the
spikes
and
their
utilities
and
what
they're
seeing
happen
with
the
energy
grid
and
across
this
country.
So
I
think
it's
got
a
lot
of
attention
right
now.
I
think
people
are
looking
at
it.
We
appreciate
you
coming
forward
to
share
more
information
in
front
of
our
committee,
so
at
this
time
we'll
see
if
we
have
any
representative
gibbons
prunty
has
their
first
question.
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
all
for
your
presentation.
As
you
know,
I
represent
mielberg
county
where
paradise
is
and
we
had
units
one
for
the
gas
plants
recycle
and
the
plans
for
the
more
we
have
more
than
a
football
field
there.
So
I
mean
I'm
still
an
advocate
for
coal
to
be
in
the
mix
for
the
keep
the
cost
down
with
the
consumer.
But
can
you
talk
about
the
safety
of
the
waste
and
get
rid
of
the
waste
and
that
sort
of
thing
with
the
small
modules.
H
G
Certainly,
with
regard
to
the
waste,
the
the
waste
for
the
technology
that
we're
looking
at
is
spent
fuel
specifically
is
is
similar
to
the
forms
that
the
the
current
reactors
use
and
and
at
at
one
level,
there's
no
federal
solution,
that's
currently
in
place,
but
there
are
interim
solutions
where
that
all
of
the
existing
92
operating
reactors
use,
which
is
temporary
on-site
storage.
So
our
perspective
is
that
would
be
a
a
viable
storage
mechanism
and
approach
to
dealing
with
any
spent
fuel
that
from
smrs
it's
safe
to
be
stored
on
site.
G
B
Well,
a
free
follow-up:
what
are
what
are
temporary?
I
mean
how
long's
temporary
on-site
storage.
What
does
that
mean.
G
The
the
designs
that
are
currently
used
for
store
and
spent
fuel
are
licensed
for
20
years
at
a
time
I
think
some
in
there
or
in
their
second
20-year
period,
but
there's
no
particular
reason
why
they
couldn't
be
stored
for
decades
until
there's
a
federal
solution.
Okay,
safely
on
site,
okay,.
H
D
G
One
of
the
the
elements
from
a
financial
standpoint
that
were
were
challenged
with
is
the
deployment
of
a
first
of
a
kind
reactor.
So
if,
if
we
we
look
at
the
projects
in
south
carolina
and
and
georgia,
those
ran
into
project
challenges
that
that
strained
them
financially
and
that,
but
they
were
first
of
a
kind
deployments
of
that
ap
1000
technology.
So
that
is
something
that,
as
bob
alluded
to
which
we're
planning
the
project.
H
G
Need
to
make
sure
that
we
are
very
careful
that
we
don't
put
that
financial
first
of
a
kind
risk
unduly
on
the
ratepayers.
So
our
perspective
is
that
there's
a
partnership
that
would
be
warranted.
It
could
be
a
could
be
a
private
one,
but
more
likely
a
federal
partnership
for
the
first
of
a
kind
financial
assist
to
get
the
the
projects
moving.
A
Very
good
bob,
I
have
a
question.
A
You
know
we,
I've
supported
nuclear,
the
votes
that
have
come
up
here
before
I
do
think
it's
a
feasible
option
for
us
as
we
look
at
the
future
of
it,
but
there's
still
a
lot
of
people
that
are
concerned
about,
like
the
nuclear
meltdown,
they've
seen
all
the
stuff
the
tv
shows
and
and
all
the
the
scary
stuff
that's
out
there,
but
but
when
you
really
dive
into
it,
that's
not
necessarily
the
truth
of
it,
and
I
wonder
if
you
could
share
with
members
here
that
may
have.
A
This
is
their
first
time
on
this
committee
and
their
first
time
to
be.
You
know,
hearing
about
nuclear
to
look
at
going
forward
and
kind
of
assure
them
with
what
the
safety
protocols
are.
What
what
realistically
is
other
than
inside
the
hollywood
aspect
of
the
the
nuclear
meltdown
of
what
the
safety
protocols
actually
really
are.
H
Well,
I'm
going
to
I'm
going
to
ask
joe
to
speak
to
that
and
the
reason
why
I'm
going
to
ask
joe
to
speak
to
that
now.
I've
worked
in
nuclear
for
20
20
plus
years,
and
it
is.
It
is
very
safe
but
joe
prior
to
joe
coming
to
the
tennessee
valley
authority
in
his
early
careers.
He
was
a
on
a
naval
nuclear
carrier
and
he
was
also
spent
time
with
the
nuclear
regulatory
commission
where
he
was
part
of
the
other
side
that
evaluated
the
safety.
Joe.
G
Thanks
bob,
the
the
approach
to
to
safety
in
the
u.s
is
to
take,
what's
called
a
a
layered
approach
or
a
defense
in
depth
approach
and
and
to
make
sure
that
there
are
by
design
and
by
operation
layers
of
safety
that
are
between
the
fuel
itself
and
any
hazard
that
it
may
represent,
and
members
of
the
public.
And
so
it's
that's
the
fundamental
approach
to
safety,
and
I
can
I
can
touch
on
those
barriers.
G
The
the
view
for
small
modular
reactors
and
advanced
reactors
is
to
take
that
four
layer
concept
which
is
demonstrated
to
be
safe
in
the
united
states
and
make
it
even
safer.
That
is
so.
That's
the
the
philosophical
approach
to
safety
in
this
country
and
moving
forward
into
small
modular
reactors.
I
can
take
further
questions,
but
that's
at
a
high
level.
A
No-
and
I
appreciate
it,
just
that's
one
of
the
things
that
often
gets
lobbed
at
the
industry
and
when
you
you
dive
into
that,
and
actually
look
at
that,
you'll
find
that
there's
there's
a
lot
of
protocols,
there's
a
lot
of
fail
safes
built
into
it
in
our
nuclear
reactors,
for
our
submarine
fleet
used
daily
by
many
of
our
naval
officers
and
without
incident.
But
I
just
wanted
to
point
that
out
because
we
have
a
lot
of
new
members
on
this
committee.
A
B
It
pretty
much
answered
my
question.
I
know
that
there
is
from
the
general
public.
There
is
a
lot
of
concern
about
health
risk
to
nuclear
energy
and
if
you
want
to
elaborate
any
more
on
it,
but
your
response
to
the
chairman's
question
kind
of
answered
a
lot
of
that,
but
I
do
know
that
there
is
a
tremendous
amount
of
fear
among
the
general
public
when
it
comes
to
nuclear
energy.
G
And
I
might
add
to
that
I
mentioned
the
the
four
barriers
or
the
four
layered-
that's
kind
of
the
approach
to
safety
from
an
event
from
a
a
specific
accident
event,
but-
and-
and
that's
we've
not
had
that
in
a
way
that
in
this
country,
that's
affected
the
health
and
safety
of
the
public.
In
addition
to
that,
there
are
recurring
studies
on
what
are
the
health
effects
in
the
environments
around
these
plants.
So
that's
that's
looked
at
and
those
studies
have
over
the
years
demonstrated
there's.
J
Chairman,
we
still
have
one
presenter,
christine
king,
that
is
online
and
your
question
on
on
the
safety
and
that's
kind
of
where
the
new
technology
comes
into
play
and
that's
really
part
of
the
efforts.
The
major
part
of
the
efforts
that
we're
going
to
be
making
over
the
months
to
come
is
to
educate
all
of
us
within
the
legislature
on
the
newer
technology
and
the
safety
aspects
of
that
and
christine
king
is
is
online
and
she
can,
I
think,
she's,
going
to
talk
a
little
bit
more
about
the
newer
technologies.
A
I
Okay,
great
so,
first
of
all,
I'd
like
to
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
talk
with
you
today
and,
and
I'm
hoping
that
this
is
the
first
of
a
few
conversations
we
have
so
I'm
the
director
for
the
gateway
for
accelerated
innovation
in
nuclear,
and
this
is
an
initiative
from
the
department
of
energy
and
our
main
goal
is
to
facilitate
public-private
partnerships
across
the
national
labs
to
further
the
vision
of
these
private
companies
that
are
either
sustaining
our
existing
nuclear
fleet
or
designing
and
commercializing
new
nuclear
technologies.
I
A
little
bit
about
me,
I'm
a
chemical
engineer
from
nc
state.
I
was
the
one
that
took
a
little
chance
on
julian
colvin
in
a
in
a
chat.
He
was
wanting
to
know
more
about
advanced
reactors
and
we
started
talking.
I
I
have
worked
in
the
commercial
nuclear
fleet
for
over
25
years
prior
to
taking
this
role
actually
in
march,
during
our
visit
at
oak
ridge,
we
actually
walked
down
the
cliff
the
clinch
river
site
with
dan
stout
who's
since
retired
from
tva,
but
it
was
really
interesting
to
walk
down
a
site
and
think
about
early.
What
early
nuclear
projects
look
like?
I
That's
your
decision,
but
I
want
to
ensure
that
you
have
the
information
and
the
resources
you
need
to
consider
nuclear
technologies,
so
the
doe
and
the
national
labs
are
committing
to
understanding
your
needs
and
your
questions
as
we
work
on
de-risking
these
future
commercial
nuclear
projects,
and
that's
why
I
actually
came
into
this
job.
I
I
wanted
to
talk
a
little
bit
today
about
how
you
might
consider
a
feasibility
study
around
advanced
nuclear
in
kentucky.
That's
been
a
lot
of
our
conversation
between
myself
and
senator
carroll.
You
know
you
could
look
at
this
through
several
different
lenses.
First
of
all,
you
could
do
a
technical
evaluation.
Looking
at
different
reactor
designs,
you
could
do
that
at
a
higher
level.
I
Looking
at
the
generic
aspects
of
a
design
against
your
specific
objectives
that
could
be
done
by
a
specific
owner
operator
like
tda,
you
could
progress
that
evaluation
into
looking
at
specific
designs
and
or
developers.
These
assessments
include
kind
of
a
review
of
the
capability
kind
of
think
what
it
will
do
when
the
design
is
complete
and
maturity.
Where
is
the
design
today,
and
what
is
the
level
of
effort
necessary
to
get
that
design
ready
to
build?
I
You
can
include
cost
and
construction
criteria,
as
well
as
exclusionary
factors
like
we
definitely
don't
want
designs
that
leak
that
do
the
following.
I
Maybe
that
is
we're
not
interested
in
building
a
1000
megawatt,
vocal
size
plant
or
maybe
there's
factors
that
I
would
prefer
not
to
maybe
not
to
have
something
that
has
a
large
footprint,
but
maybe
that's
okay,
so
that's
kind
of
exclusionary
and
avoidance
factors
and
the
electric
power
research
institute
actually
has
they're
developing
a
guide
to
help
that
type
of
technical
evaluation
which
would
be
available
to
the
utilities
in
in
kentucky
through
that
membership.
I
The
technical
evaluation
also
could
be
look
looked
at
it
in
terms
of
integrating
into
the
current
electric
electricity
system.
You
have
how
you
consider
the
preservation
of
the
existing
assets.
You
have
what
that
transition
might
look
like
maximize
the
future,
renewable
use
and
potentially
repurposing
coal
stations
with
advanced
nuclear
think
like
smrs
or
mid
or
other
mid-sized
nuclear
units
which
are
similarly
sized
to
the
to
the
coal
units
and
also
have
a
similar
temperature
and
pressure
profile
from
a
market
evaluation.
I
That's
mindful
of
those
lessons
learned
this
year,
gaine
has
been
working
with
the
office
of
energy
policy
with
director
kenya
stump
hosting
some
webinars
talking
about
future
energy
planning.
We
have
a
workshop
coming
up
on
june
29th
with
the
utilities
across
the
state
to
talk
about
feasibility
studies
and
what
those
important
elements
might
be
for
kentucky.
I
The
workshop
actually
begins
with
perspectives
from
three
utilities
that
have
announced
advanced
nuclear
plans
and
two
utilities
who
are
hosting
the
advanced
nuclear
demonstration
projects
along
the
way
I'm
going
to
go
out
on
a
limb
on
behalf
of
kenya,
but
if
you're
interested
in
the
workshop,
I'm
sure
we'd
be
glad
to
have
your
voice
in
the
room
and
again
being
mindful
of
the
time.
I
I'm
going
to
end
my
remarks
here
and
I
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
talk
today.
A
Very
good,
we
appreciate
you
joining
us
and
your
comments
are
duly
noted.
This
time
I
see
senator
carol
is
there?
Are
we,
let's
make
sure
we
we
have
everybody?
Is
there
anyone
else?
Okay,
yes
david!
I
just
noticed
you
the
table.
Sorry
about
that.
We're
glad
to
have
you
at
the
table,
and
I
understand
you
have
some
comments.
So
we
yield
you
david.
K
There
you
go
good
afternoon,
chairman
smith,
and
the
other
members
of
the
committee
I'll
keep
I'm
going
to
shorten
my
comments.
Given
the
the
time
constraints.
Again,
I
represent
the
united
states
nuclear
industry
council,
we're
leading
advocate
for
american
advanced
nuclear
energy
technologies.
K
We
represent
more
than
80
companies
engaged
in
nuclear
innovation
and
supply
chain
development,
including
technology
developers,
manufacturers,
construction
engineers,
key
utility
movers
and
service
providers.
I
want
to
thank
you
all
for
the
opportunity
to
testify
today
and
for
holding
this
important
hearing.
As
we
all
know,
climate
change
has
garnered
significant
attention
at
every
level
of
government
in
the
private
sector.
K
While
there
is
no
one
thing,
policy
makers
can
do
to
solve
this
challenge.
Accelerating
the
global
deployment
of
cutting-edge
american
nuclear
technologies
is
important
to
driving
down
carbon
dioxide
emissions,
while
meeting
the
world's
glo
growing
clean
energy
needs
without
a
larger
share
of
nuclear
power
from
both
existing
and
advanced
reactors.
These
pledges
are
less
likely
to
succeed
and
will
certainly
be
more
expensive
as
more
countries
and
corporate
entities
commit
to
trying
to
get
to
net
zero
carbon
dioxide
emissions.
K
Thankfully,
on
the
national
level,
the
united
states
congress
has
recognized
the
importance
of
nuclear
energy
from
both
a
clean
energy
and
competitiveness
perspective
on
a
bipartisan
basis.
In
the
115th
116th
and
117th
congresses,
legislation
has
been
passed
that
makes
america's
nuclear
industry
stronger.
K
The
I'm
just
going
to
skip
ahead
because,
again,
I
know
we're
running
short
on
time.
We're
currently
seeing
a
flurry
of
next
generation
advanced
nuclear
reactor
technology
companies
out
there,
including
oklo
bw,
xt,
x,
energy,
terrapower,
ge,
hitachi,
kairos,
new
scale,
and
many
more
and
they're
all
on
the
cusp
of
being
ready
to
build
these
new
technologies
in
this
decade.
K
Advanced
reactors
fall
in
a
variety
of
sizes
and
categories.
You've
heard
some
of
the
discussion
on
that
today,
including
microreactors
of
less
than
10
megawatts
electric
all
the
way
to
module
small
modular
reactors
with
individual
modules
having
outputs
ranging
up
to
300
megawatts
electric.
These
designs
comprise
both
light
water
reactor
designs,
which
are
the
current
fleet.
That's
out
there
right
now.
K
The
larger
reactors,
as
well
as
designs,
include
high
temperature
gas,
cooled
reactors,
molten
salt
reactors
and
fast
reactors,
while
different
designs
have
varying
timetables
given
their
design,
maturity
and
licensing
schedule
with
the
nuclear
regulatory
commission.
There
are
multiple
advanced
reactor
designs
that
could
and
in
fact,
probably
will
be
deployed
later
this
decade.
K
We
are
truly
at
an
exciting
time
for
the
american
nuclear
industry.
Nuclear
power
has
re-emerged
as
a
smart,
reliable
power
source
and
an
integral
part
of
global
emissions
reductions.
Efforts
a
flurry
of
next
generation
nuclear
reactor
companies
are
all
on
the
cusp
of
building
reactors
in
the
next
decade.
K
These
technologies
will
provide
clean,
reliable
power
and
create
jobs
in
the
local
communities,
but
they
also
offer
additional
benefits
relative
to
traditional
reactors.
Advanced
reactors
are
smaller,
which
allows
them
to
be
sited
in
new
locations.
They
can
operate
flexibly
to
complement
renewable
energy,
they
are
walk
away
safe
and
they
can
decarbonize
industries
beyond
just
the
power
sector.
K
I'm
encouraged
by
this
committee's
serious
consideration
of
the
role
advanced
nuclear
technology
can
play
in
meeting
kentucky's
future
energy
needs,
and
we
at
the
united
states
nuclear
industry
council
stand
ready
to
support
you
as
a
resource,
as
you
continue
your
evaluations
and
considerations.
So
thank
you
for
having
me
today
dave.
A
So,
for
example,
if
there
was
a
power
outage
or
something
happen
in
the
region
that
the
pot,
the
plug
itself,
will
melt
because
it's
not
getting
refrigeration,
therefore
flooding
the
the
cooling
towers
and
shuts
itself
off
kind
of
like
flipping
the
old
lamp
for
a
coleman,
lantern
snuffing
it
out,
but
just
looking
at
some
of
the
cell
say
precautions
that
I
was
not
made
aware
of
before.
But
but
what
is
the
the
is
that?
Is
it
two
separate
technologies
with
the
thorium
and
the
molten
salt,
or
are
those
a
combined
technology?
A
K
They
can
be
thorium
offers
the
opportunity
to
fuel
different
designs,
it's
a
different
fuel
cycle,
but
it
has
the
opportunity
to
offer
different
designs
and.
K
A
A
Life
for
it
is
that
is
that
one
of
the
things
that
they're
talking
about
as
far
as
the
utility
for
a
plan
of.
K
Its
nature-
or
I
I
think
there
are
many
different
considerations
between
the
uranium
and
the
thorium
fuel
cycle,
the
including
the
the
the
abundance
of
the
element
in
nature
itself,
yeah.
So,
but
I
will
say
one
of
the
things
we
we
have
been.
The
council
has
been
talking
with
a
number
of
entities
here
in
kentucky
about
trying
to
support
and
a
host
or
co-host
a
seminar,
an
educational
event
in
kentucky
where
we
can
bring
more
details
on
these
different
technologies.
K
A
Committee
holds
dear
that
it's
it's
one
of
our
great
responsibilities
to
look
at
all
of
these
and
not
just
talk
about,
but
to
truly
take
a
look
at
it
and
devote
the
type
of
time
that
having
this
seat
up
here
deserves
so
that
we
do
find
out
what's
best
for
the
ratepayers
out
there
and
the
people
on
the
other
side
of
this
equation.
So
I
appreciate
attendance
from
all
of
our
members
today.
If
I
have
no
other
questions,
I
see
I'll
yield
to
senator
carroll
to
go
and
wrap
us
up.
Mr.
J
Chairman
I
appreciate
it
and
I
thank
all
of
you
all
for
sticking
around
to
hear
this
and
it's
it.
I
know
this
is
controversial
with
a
lot
of
people,
but
all
I
ask
for
you
all
is
to
keep
an
open
mind
and
and
take
a
look
at
the
new
technology
and
understand
that
it
is
much
safer
and
there's
there's
take
out
there's
technology
in
the
works
now
that
that's
not
prepared
to
even
announce.
J
So
it's
it's
going
to
be
a
a
supply
of
base
load
that
is
dependable.
It's
carbon
free,
it's
something
that
can
be
pop
bipartisan
in
our
efforts
to
support
it
in
our
commonwealth.
Our
strength
for
economic
development
has
always
been
inexpensive
sources
of
power.
None
of
us
like
it
that
the
coal
industry
is
declining.
We
wish
it
wasn't
that
way,
but
that's
the
reality
and
and
the
future
is
uncertain
in
that
area.
J
But
we
know
that
we're
we're
looking
towards
other
baseload
supplies,
and
we
know
that
nuclear
is
that
dependable
source
that
that
will
move
this
state
forward.
We
have
to
be
careful
that
we
don't
get
behind
and
I'm
afraid
that's
where
we're
headed,
that
we're
going
to
let
other
states
get
in
front
of
us
and
as
far
as
economic
development,
with
low-cost
power
they're
going
to
clean
our
clock
in
that
area
and
and
we
need
to
move
forward
and
that's
what
the
efforts
are
about
now
and
we'll
continue
to
do
that.
J
We,
you
know,
we
hope,
to
work
with
the
industry
council
to
to
get
a
somewhat
of
a
an
organization
built
in
kentucky
to
start
supporting
that
I
haven't
approached
the
executive
branch.
Yet
I
know
that
if
I'm
not
mistaken,
christine
and
her
folks
have
spoken
with
the
executive
branch
about
the
possibilities
in
the
future,
but
I
think
it
can
be
a
bipartisan
effort
and
I
think
it's
something
we
can't
agree
on.
Safety
has
always
been
the
big
issue
and
I
know
senator
webb.
That's
something
you've
had
a
lot
of
concerns
about.
J
You
know
at
home,
we're
used
to
nuclear.
We
had
the
gaseous
diffusion
plant
corey
hicks,
who
I've
been
communicating
with
works
with
the
four
rivers,
nuclear
partnership,
they're
they're,
the
contractor
that
is
cleaning
up
that
site.
Now
we
have
spent
fuel
on
site
we're
trying
to
attract
a
laser
enrichment
company
to
come
in
to
re-enrich
the
spent
fuel
that
we
have
on
site
in
paducah.
J
So
our
community,
our
part
of
the
state,
embraces
nuclear,
and
we
hope
that
it's
some
day
within
the
next
decade
that
we
were
able
to
attract
a
a
company,
hopefully
tva,
would
be
the
obvious
first
choice
to
maybe
build
a
reactor,
a
small
modular
reactor
within
paducah
at
that
site,
so
that's
kind
of
where
we
are
but
jobs,
inexpensive,
power,
dependable
power,
carbon-free
economic
development.
It
meets
all
the
things
that
we
need
in
this
commonwealth.
So
all
I
ask,
is
you
please
keep
an
open
mind
as
we
move
forward?
J
Mr
chairman,
thank
you
so
much
for
indulging
us
through
this
effort,
and
I
want
to
thank
all
of
our
guests
that
came
and
traveled
long
distances
to
be
here
today
to
to
bring
this
information.
Jeff
harmon
with
senate
staff,
helping
coordinate
this
and
mr
chairman,
your
committee
staff,
for
for
helping
put
all
this
together,
I'm
very
grateful
for
all
the
efforts.
Thank
you,
sir.
All.
A
Right
very
good,
so,
do
I
have
a
motion
to
adjourn
all
those
in
favor
of
the
sign
of
I
we
stand
adjourned.
Thank
you
all.