►
Description
No description was provided for this meeting.
If this is YOUR meeting, an easy way to fix this is to add a description to your video, wherever mtngs.io found it (probably YouTube).
A
Welcome
to
the
house
standing
committee
on
appropriations
and
revenue.
This
is
meeting
number
six
tuesday
march
1st
10
a.m.
Eastern
time,
annex
room,
149,
usual
rules
apply
one
if
you've
signed
up.
That's
how
you
are
recognized
to
speak
if
you're,
a
non-member
number
two,
if
you're
in
the
room,
make
sure
that
you
have
cell
phones
and
any
other
electronic
devices
turned
to
airplane.
Preferably
silent
is
a
necessity.
A
C
D
B
Representative
hale
here
representative
hart
representative
hatton
president
from
my
annex
office.
Thank
you,
representative,
mccool,
representative
nemes,
representative
palumbo,
here
in
my
annex
office.
Thank
you,
representative
prunty
here
in
the
room
representative,
raymond
here,
representative
riley,
here,
representative
santoro,
representative
tipton,
here
representative
wilner,
here
vice
chair
reed,
here,
chairman
petry,
president.
A
A
A
A
H
A
A
E
Thank
you,
mr
chair,
without
going
too
far
in
the
weeds
I'll
touch
on
the
highlights
of
what
the
bill
accomplishes
and
what
the
committee
sub
does.
In
section
1
of
house
bill,
260
first
defines
a
vacant
property
and
a
retail
market
segment.
It
then
adds
a
requirement
for
when
properties
can
and
cannot
be
considered,
similar
properties
under
the
sales
comparison
approach
section.
One
also
requires
whoever
appraises
a
property
to
meet
the
minimum
standards
of
international
assessment
of
assessing
officers.
E
At
a
conference
with
pva
and
before
the
board
of
assessments,
we
do
have
one
more
change
that
I've
talked
to
and
we've
agreed
to.
That
is
legal
and
that
will
be
come
in
a
form
of
a
house
floor
committee
sub,
and
we
found
a
house
floor
amendment
a
house
floor
amendment
I
apologize
and
on
page
three
section
five.
We
found
the
cleric
error
where
a
word
was
left
out
and
that
was
the
valuation
of
real
property
page
three
on
the
committee
sub.
Yes,
sir,
what.
A
A
E
And
it
says
the
of
real
property.
They
left
the
valuation
out
of
that
and
then
also
that,
as
you
read
down,
it
shall
meet
the
minimum
applicable
applicable
and,
and
it
says
appraisal
that
will
should
be
changed.
A
E
E
A
E
Yes,
sir,
and
there's
one
more
addition
at
the
very
end
of
that,
since
in
an
appeal
process,
they're
only
allowed
to
use
a
licensed
appraiser
that
is
falls
under
use,
pap
standards.
We
felt
it
appropriate
to
to
allow
both
iaao
standards,
the
international
association
of
assessing
officers
or
the
universal
standard
of
appraisal,
practices,
which
is
use
pap.
A
I
A
A
A
I
Thank
you
question
for
the
sponsor
on
the
page
number
one.
G
Thank
you,
representative
gentry.
What
this
is
referring
to
is
when
we
have
a
situation
where
a
property
is
not
owner
occupied,
but
it
was
paid
for
we're
still
always
reverting
back
to
the
consideration
paid
as
a
transaction,
so
not
necessarily
the
rental.
But
what
that
rental
value
represents
in
formulating
the
consideration
when
there
is
a
transaction.
A
All
right
do
you
have
a
follow-up,
and
let
me
just
preface
that
yeah
that
question
with
I
know
stephanie
stiglitz
on
behalf
of
the
kentucky
retail
federation,
is
wanting
to
speak,
so
we're
going
to
transition
to
that.
But
I
wanted
to
catch
your
question
up
front
to
make
sure
we
knew
what
was
in
front
of
us.
I
Okay,
can
I
provide
a
clarifying
question
that
might
help
me
understand
this?
Please.
Let
me
give
an
example
of
my
question.
If
we
pass
this,
would
it
be
possible
to
assess
a
value
on
a
piece
of
property
based
on
another
piece
of
property
that
has
similar
leasing
or
rental
arrangements,
but
there
wasn't
a
sale
of
that
particular
property
that
that
assessment
is
being
based
upon.
G
No,
may
I
still
speak
to
that
when
it
comes
to
set.
This
is
completely
on
the
sales
comparison
approach.
So
always
the
sale
is,
is
the
pivotal
we're
using
an
all
appraisal
in
the
sales
comparison?
It's
properties
that
have
changed
hands.
There
has
been
a
transaction,
so
they
are,
they
could
have
similar
qualities,
whether
it
be
lease
fee
or
leasehold
interest,
or
things
like
that.
But
there
is,
there
still
has
to
be
a
consideration
certificate
on
a
deed,
that's
being
considered.
A
H
H
H
H
The
kentucky
retail
federation
would
like
to
thank
representative
bridges,
and
those
of
you
who've
spent
time
with
us
regarding
this,
but
our
membership
stands
united
and
its
concerns
regarding
house
bill
260
and
the
potential
of
overburdening
retailers
with
higher
property
taxes
through
over-evaluation
of
property,
ultimately
house
bill
260
what
will
up
end
luck's,
long-standing
court
precedent,
shifting
kentucky
from
assessing
the
value
of
the
bricks
sticks
and
dirt
to
including
the
value
of
the
tenant
in
the
building,
leading
to
non-uniform
property,
tax
assessments
and
shifting
the
property
tax
burden
to
retailers
and
other
commercial
properties.
H
From
a
broad
policy
standpoint,
it
is
important
to
note
the
value
retail
brings
to
the
commonwealth.
First
26
of
jobs
in
kentucky
are
supported
by
the
retail
industry.
Retailers
collect
more
than
2.8
billion
dollars
in
sales
taxes
and
pay
kentuckians
more
than
9.3
billion
in
wages
annually.
Retail
is
a
vital
and
growing
sector.
H
H
The
legislation
before
you
today
would
codify
the
goals
of
the
pva.
As
stated
in
this
previously
mentioned
presentation
and
I'd
like
to
take
a
minute
to
explain
our
concerns
and-
and
I'm
going
to
do
so
with
the
knowledge
that
the
sponsor
has
just
said
that
he
has
plans
to
file
the
floor
amendment.
So
if
I
veer
off
a
little
bit,
I
just
want
to
make
that
clear.
H
The
bill
would
restrict
comparable
sales
used
in
the
comparable
sales
approach.
In
our
opinion,
the
valuation
of
real
property
is
fact
intensive
and
trained.
Appraisers
make
adjustments
to
the
sales
of
property
to
make
them
comparable
with
the
subject
property
being
valued.
H
And
we
do
appreciate
the
suggest.
Well,
I
think
we
do.
I
would
have.
I
need
to
consult
with
our
experts
on,
but
based
on
the
comments
that
representative
bridges
made
about,
including
use
pap.
Our
members
sees
pap
as
the
gold
standard
for
appraisals
and
don't
want
it
to
be
restricted
to
to
one
method.
H
Our
members
feel
kentucky
standard
for
assessing
fair
cash.
Value
of
property
should
continue
to
be
based
on
the
actual
brick
sticks
and
dirts.
We
are
concerned
that
prohibiting
property
value
administer
valuation,
administrators
taxpayers
and
their
appraisers
from
using
certain
properties
and
assessor
standards,
which
may
be
changed
now.
I
meant
are
unnecessary
and
will
lead
to
improper
constitutionality,
constitutionally
suspect,
over
assessment
of
real
property
statutorily
requiring
market
segmentation
can
lead
to
issues
for
properties
lacking
readily
available
sales
of
nearby
comparable
properties.
H
Further
many
properties
are
subject
to
deed
restrictions
and
rentals
of
properties
are
not
sales.
All
of
the
concerns
implicated
by
the
proposed
amendments
may
be
addressed
by
good
appraisal
practice.
Hospital
260's
amendments
to
the
sales
comparison
approach
can
be
anticipated
to
result
in
non-uniform
and
unequal
example.
H
Assessments,
for
example,
two
properties
may
be
across
the
street
from
each
other,
but
one
may
be
subject
to
a
long-term
lease
contract
without
the
lease
each
property
may
be
valued
at
a
million
dollars,
but
because
one
property
has
an
annual
lease
contract
income
of
300
000
and
a
cap
rate
of
7.5
percent
based
on
the
quality
of
the
tenant,
the
formula
in
house
bill
260
would
result
an
assessment
of
four
million
dollars,
which
is
400
percent
of
that
of
the
similar
property
across
the
street.
This
is
a
real
concern
for
our
members.
H
We
fear
that
the
bill
will
unintentionally
lead
to
more
assessment,
appeals
and
judicial
challenges,
which
would
be
a
negative
outcome
for
both
businesses
and
pvas.
The
proposed
changes
in
approaches
used
to
in
the
sales
comparison
approach
used
to
determine
the
value
of
commercial
property
can
be
anticipated
to
result
in
a
significant
increase
in
commercial
property
in
assessment.
Appeals.
Excuse
me
further.
I
may
need
reading
glasses
now.
Furthermore,
due
to
house
bill
260's
requirements
for
property
valuation,
those
appeals
will
become
more
complex
and
take
longer
to
resolve
placing
a
greater
burden
on
resources
of
the
pvas.
H
We
would
like
to
take
another
opportunity,
important
broad
policy
point.
Retailers
are
a
critical
component
to
the
local
property
tax
base
based
on
kentucky
law,
krs,
none,
one
260
and
then
to
300.
Retailers
are
not
allowed
to
save
local
industrial
revenue,
bonds
that
local
governments
use
to
as
economic
development
incentives
or
establish
payment
in
lieu
of
taxes.
H
Only
factories
can
receive
this.
Additionally,
at
the
state
level.
Krs
153
34010
includes
a
definition
that
prohibits
retailers
from
receiving
economic
development
incentives
from
the
state.
Finally,
retailers
know
and
understand
that
paying
property
taxes
for
brick
and
mortar
operations
is
a
part
of
doing
business,
but
overpaying
property
taxes
by
retail
businesses
will
jeopardize
the
retail
industry's
vitality
within
the
commonwealth,
including
to
leading
to
closed
retailers,
fewer
available
jobs
and
an
ultima
and,
ultimately,
a
narrower
property
tax
base.
A
Very
good,
thank
you
very
much
and,
as
stated
before,
representative
wilder,
I
had
you
up
next
to
the
list.
J
J
E
E
I
think
this
goes
back
to
on
page
four
ver
verse,
we're
not
in
the
bible.
Are
we
section
c
on
page
four,
the
second
paragraph?
It
refers
to
an
arm's
length,
transaction
and
there's
already
krs
382.135
that
sets
on
a
d
that
when
a
property
is
transferred
in
a
cash
sale
at
an
arm's
length
decision,
the
seller
signs
that
deed
to
transfer
their
interest
in
that
property
to
the
buyer
in
I
think
it
was
1995.
E
E
What
is
failed
to
come
out
is
that
that
is
when
the
local
governments,
the
local
counties
and
cities
are
allowed
to
do
that,
and
they
do
so
quite
often
to
afford
these
retailers
to
come
into
these.
The
retailers
come
in,
they
promise
you
know,
sometimes,
depending
on
the
scope
of
the
project,
hundreds
of
jobs,
the
local
governments
will
get
payroll
taxes
and
property
taxes
which
property
assessment,
values
and
taxes
are
what
supports
the
majority
of
our
local
governments
and
then
a
few
years
later,
such
as
what
happened
in
paducah.
E
They
come
back
and
appeal
that
and
say
no,
that's
really
not
the
cash
value
we
paid
for
that
property
when,
after
all,
there's
already
an
affidavit
signed
and
like
for
my
local
school
systems,
it
would
have
cost
them
approximately
sixty
thousand
dollars
a
year
loss
in
assessments
over
infinity.
You
could
say
now.
One
thing
on
these
also
is
as
as
can
be
argued
in
any
way.
E
There's
a
there's
a
counter
argument
that
if
an
income
approach
increases
the
value
of
property,
it
also
decreases
the
price
value
of
the
property,
and
so
therefore,
if
you've
got
a
vacant
store,
it
should
be,
and
I've
talked
to
the
pvas.
That
value
should
be
lowered.
You
know
it's
a
two-way
street,
it's
not
a
ratchet
that
just
goes
to
one
point
and
stays
so
it's
fluid
properties
are
always
fluid,
and
but
that
that's
where
we
we
stand.
This
is
a
problem
nationwide.
E
It's
happening
in
wisconsin,
indiana,
ohio,
california,
it's
coming
all
over
and
it's
we
we.
I
hope
that
the
kentucky
legislation
is
proactive
in
in
addressing
these
before
they
become
problems
instead
of
being
reactive,
and
this
is
coming
across
the
nation.
There
was
an
instance
in
another
state
where
a
large
retail
organization
had
a
35
million
dollar
project.
E
They
come
in
and
sold
the
local
county
and
city
governments
into
doing
infrastructure,
roads,
sewer
water,
you
name
it
and
and
they
were
promising
two
to
three
hundred
jobs,
payroll
taxes,
property
assessments,
values
is
going
to
do
that
and
it
was
over
30
million
dollars
and
it
was
turned
around
two
years
later
under
their
state
law
and
they
had
that
reduced
to
under
15
million
dollars.
E
And
then
the
local
governments
are
shorted
not
only
on
their
investment
but
they're
also
shorted
on
local
governments,
so
that
that's
just
sort
of
a
a
60
000
foot
view
of
what
we're
looking
at
and
I'm
going
to
turn
it
over
to
andrew.
If
he
you
know,
has
any
other
comments
just
trying
to
keep
it
brief.
G
G
Three
hundred
fifty
thousand
dollars
of
revenue
lost
since
two
thousand
fifteen
warren
county.
Fifty
one
thousand
dollars
just
on
one
property
this
one
year.
So
this
this
problem
is
in
our
commonwealth
and
I
want
to
speak
just
a
little
bit
about
what
was
mentioned
earlier.
We
we
talked
with
the
retail
federation.
They
talked
about
lease
contract
buildings
being
across
the
street.
I
I
want
the
committee
to
know
that
we're
not
amending
the
income
approach
to
valuation,
that's
already
codified
in
krs.
G
If
you
look
at
page
one
of
the
bill
where
we,
where
part
c
is
amended
at
the
bottom
right
above
that
b,
that's
the
discussion.
We
were
having
that's
the
income
approach
when
it
talks
about
lease
values
and
things
like
that.
That's
that's
not
being
amended
here,
we're
talking
about
assessing
properties
for
what
they're
worth
apples
to
apples
if
a
property
sells
because
it's
in
a
depressed
area
or
because
it
can
no
longer
be
a
candy
store,
the
candy
store
that
was
operating
fully
on
january.
1St
should
not
be
a
pr
compared
to
that.
G
A
A
G
To
that
sure,
mr
chairman,
when
it
comes
to
residential
we're,
not
there's
no
darth
of
sales
when
it
comes
to
residential
properties,
I'm
sure
everybody's
aware
how
out
of
control
the
residential
real
estate
market
is
right.
Now
we
don't
have
trouble
when
it
comes
to
to
finding
apples
to
apple
sales,
so
this
is
inclusive
of
residential,
but
it
in
practice
will
never
affect
residential
properties.
Thank.
J
A
G
You
you
may
have
to
talk
to
miss
allen
about
that
representative
bentley,
because
she'll
be
in
charge
of
your
just
jurisdiction,
but
in
in
seriousness,
in
this
situation,
we're
talking
about
sales
comparison,
so
we're
looking
at
what
properties
sold
for.
So
what
what
you
do
as
far
as
your
income
does
not
affect
the
assessment
when
we're
looking
at
sales
comparison
approach,
we're
looking
at
what
the
value
of
the
property
is,
we
don't
want
to
get
confused.
G
The
lease
value
only
comes
into
play
when
it
affects
the
sale
price
of
the
property,
with
what
this
bill
will
change.
So
how
successful
your
business
is
if
you're
owner
occupied,
as
you
describe,
does
not
necessarily
affect
the
sales
price
sales
comparison
approach
to
method
out
to
appraising
real
estate.
F
Could
I
just
have
one
one
statement
to
that,
so
there's
three
approaches
to
value,
so
that's
just
one
approach
to
the
value,
so
your
your
property
being
worth
half
a
million
dollars
may
have
more
to
do
with
your
square
footage
the
size,
the
parking
lot,
the
condition
the
roof
condition,
all
the
things
that
it
might
have.
So
so
the
income
approach
is
just
one
approach
to
value
the
other
two
approaches
which
should
still
be
applied
being
the
market
and
the
cost
approach.
H
So
if,
if
you
may
repeat
your
question,
I
mean
I
I
will
say
I
fully
admit
that
pva
administrator
powell
is
correct,
that
we
understand
that
this
is
not
amending
the
income
approach.
K
Thank
you,
chairman,
petrie,
rich,
a
quick
question
in
regards
to
the
I
a
o
uplate
in
there.
It
says
it
goes
to
the
standards
of
them
does
if
those
standards
change,
does
this
regulation
or
this
law
change
with
it
or
is
it?
Are
you
codifying
what's
currently
what's
currently
now
in
terms
of
valuation.
G
Thank
you,
representative
flynn
fleming.
As
far
as
that
goes,
it's
it's
again
also
remember
that
representative
bridges
and
included
use
pap
to
that
that
language
as
well,
both
of
those
standards
are
revisited
annually
to
to
to
better
improve
appraisal
practices.
G
So
it's
it's
just
like
me
as
an
attorney
when
our
practice
and
procedure
rules
change,
they
may
not
be
codified
but
expected
as
far
as
that
goes.
So,
yes,
that
that
would
change
iw
standards
and
use
pap
standards.
You
know,
there's
conferences
that
that
revisit
issues
every
year.
K
K
E
Yes,
sir,
that's
over
on
the
on
on
the
latter
pages,
where
we,
if
you
krs
statutes
already,
if
you
practice
appraisals,
law
or
real
estate
in
kentucky
to
be
able
to
present
before
a
board
of
appeals
or
in
a
court
of
law.
You
have
to
be
licensed
in
kentucky
so
and
that
that
was
already
in
in
statute.
But
we
clarified
that
more
okay,
so.
K
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
for
your
indulgence,
representatives
and
I
basically
share
ford
out
in
the
east
end.
So
if,
for
some
reason
that
has
to
be
assessed,
is
there
anybody
in
the
state
to
that
would
provide
that's
currently
licensed,
or
they
have
to
bring
somebody
in
to
get
licensed
to
do
that
type
of
evaluation.
E
Well,
the
the
the
current
statute
and
the
and
the
clarification
this
statute
says
that
if
you're
going
to
come
in
and
depending
on
what
what
process
they
are
in
the
appeals
process,
if
they're
an
attorney,
then
they
have
to
be
a
licensed
attorney
in
kentucky.
If
they're
an
appraiser,
they
have
to
be
a
licensed
appraiser
in
kentucky.
A
D
I
K
D
A
F
Explain
my
vote,
mr
chairman,
please
I'm
going
to
vote
yesterday
to
get
it
out
of
committee
and
move
this
thing
forward,
knowing
that
apparently
there's
still
issues
to
be
worked
out
and
they
are
working
on
those.
But
a
yesterday
is
not
a
confirmation
of
a
yes
for
me
on
the
floor.
D
D
D
K
D
K
Thank
you,
representative
bridges.
I
you
got
back
to
me
last
night
and
I
apologize
when
I
get
him
back
to
you.
I've
been
inundated
with
a
particular
bill.
I'm
gonna
pass.
If
you
don't
mind
I'll
talk
to
you
a
little
more
about
this.
I'm
sorry
I'll
I'll
talk
a
little
more
about
this.
I
did
give
some
folks
call
me
up
last
night
about
some
of
their
concerns,
so
I'm
just
gonna
pass.
I
think
it's
gonna
go
go
through
on
the
on
the
floor,
but
I
just
wanna.
J
I'm
gonna
go
yes
to
get
it
on
committee,
but
I
have
serious
questions
about
this.
We
need
to
tighten
it
up.
Thank
you.
I
Explain
my
vote
please
briefly.
Please
I'm
a
pass.
I
don't
like
voting
on
hypotheticals,
but
I
understand
the
intent.
I
support
the
intent,
I'm
a
little
concerned
about
the
language
exactly
specifically
on
page
one
of
being
used
for
other
purposes,
so
I
will
pass
as
of
right
now.
D
F
Briefly
explain,
mr
chairman,
please
I
reached
out
to
a
number
of
my
constituents,
some
of
them
before
some
are
against
it.
I've
not
chewed
into
this
enough.
I've
talked
to
representative
bridges
and
he's
talking
about
it.
How
to
trust
for
the
two
gentlemen
sitting
at
that
table
right
now,
I'm
going
to
vote
yes
get
out
of
committee,
but
I
do
have
a
lot
more
study
on
my
own,
not
any
problem
with
the
gentleman
at
the
table,
but
I
need
to
talk
to
my
constituents
more
about
it,
so
I'm
es
in
committee.
Thank
you.
D
D
Explain
my
vote
quickly
gratefully,
please!
Yes,
but
I'm
like
a
lot
of
others.
I've
I've
got
some
concerns
and
reserves
are
right,
make
different
decisions
later.
Thank
you.
C
D
A
A
A
F
F
Mr
chairman
and
members
of
the
committee
house,
bill
291
is
a
good
government
bill.
The
bill
eliminates
unnecessary
reports
that
will
that
are
currently
required
by
statute
and
will
make
legislative,
an
executive
branch
employees
more
efficient
and
effective.
I.
A
A
A
E
K
D
J
D
D
H
D
D
D
B
A
All
right
house
bill
291
having
received
21,
yes,
votes,
zero,
nay
votes
and
zero
pass
votes
will
be
reported
from
this
committee
with
favorable
expression.
That
same
should
pass
on
the
floor.
Next
up,
we
have
is
hidden
behind
the
poll.
Gonna
find
house
bill,
176
sponsored
by
representative
ken
fleming.
This
is
for
discussion
only
now.
Just
so
everyone
knows.
We
share
committee
members
between
a
and
r
that
meets
at
the
same
time
with
vmap.
A
There
are
certain
ones,
and
I've
said
you
can
leave,
make
sure
that
you're
fulfilling
duties
on
both
sides.
We
know
this
is
discussion
only
it's
important,
so
while
we
put
it
on,
however,
I
also
understand
there's
another
committee
going
on
at
the
same
time
that
has
votes
being
called
with
that
being
said,
representative
ken
fleming,
an
act
relating
to
tax
amnesty
and
declaring
an
emergency
house
bill
176
for
discussion.
Only
if
you'll
introduce
yourself
for
the
record
make
sure
that
you
have
the
microphone
on
green
and
sufficiently
close
to
you.
K
And
I
do
I'm
ken
fleming
state
representative
for
the
eighth
district,
jefferson
county.
K
Okay,
tax
amnesty:
I
just
wanted
to
give
y'all
sort
of
a
background
of
what
this
builds,
what
the
purpose
is
and
how
it's
basically
structured
and
then
and
then
just
open
up
some
of
your
questions
you
might
have
for
it.
Tax
embassy
basically,
is
allowing
individuals
and
businesses
the
opportunity
to,
I
guess,
to
not
be
charged
for
interests
and
penalties
and
so
forth
for
the
most
part,
because
they
did
not
have
not
paid
their
taxes
for
some
for
quite
a
few
years.
K
This
has
been
done
about
every
10
years
for
the
state
and
it's
also
been
done
throughout
the
throughout
the
country
and
basically
just
like
a
business
when
you
have
a
business
and
you
have
to
go
out
and
and
bill
for
for
your
services
that
you
delivered
your
posts,
get
paid
similar
to
taxes,
we
issue
taxes,
people
pay,
taxes
and
so
forth.
We
need
to
deliver
services
and
so
forth.
K
Sometimes
people
don't
pay
for
one
reason,
the
other,
and
so
basically
this
is
sort
of
a
a
process
to
give
people
some
leniency
to
make
up
for
what
they
have
not
paid
for
in
the
past,
whether
it's
in
on
purpose
or
not.
K
But
basically
what
what
it
is
is
is
to
provide
the
opportunity
to
do
that.
This
particular
bill
will
set
up
a
structure
in
order
for
us
to
have
a
tax
embassy
program
that
will
begin
and
have
a
short
window
about
60
days
of
this
year,
and
it
will
go
back
and
look
back
to
like,
I
think
it's
like
october
1st
of
2011
in
order
people
to
catch
up,
to
provide
and
basically
pay
their
taxes,
what
they
did
not
pay.
K
In
the
past,
when
I
talked
to
the
department
of
revenue
there's
around
250
million
dollars
that
that's
a
tax
out
liability,
in
fact
it's
probably
a
little
higher
than
that
given
coven,
and
they
were
not
they
being
the
raven
department
were
not
active
and
going
out
and
and
trying
to
collect
those
past
dues
and
so
forth.
So
it's
probably
a
little
higher
than
that.
Many
states
have
have
done
this,
as,
as
I
mentioned
before,
like
new
jersey,
they
had
a
goal.
This
is
on
2009.
They
had
to
go
around
100
million.
K
They
collected
75
million
dollars.
Michigan
did
this
back
in
2011.,
you
know
they
had
a
goal
of
88,
but
they
collected
76
million
dollars.
So
so,
basically
there
there
is
a
process
in
order
to
go
through
this
now,
I
think,
be
we
being
the
legislators
and
be
holding
to
the
taxpayers
very,
very
sensitive
and
making
sure
that
we
go
through
and
handle
the
collections
of
the
attack,
these
taxes
in
a
very
prudent
sensitive
way,
and
not
to
not
to
cause
any
any
issues
and
so
forth.
K
So
so
what
I
have
in
this
bill
basically
is
going
through
a
procurement
process
in
order
to
have
possibly
an
outside
company
go
through
in
this
process,
but
have
the
revenue
department
right
heard
on
this
process
to
make
sure
that
the
customer
service
and
no
irritation
is,
is
applied
to
to
the
to
the
taxpayers
and
so
forth?
So
this
this
procurement
process
is
included
in
this.
Can
the
revenue
department
can
do
this?
K
Yes,
they
can,
but
in
talking
to
them,
they're
very,
very
short
on
staff,
and
they
have
a
very
dif
they'll
have
a
really
difficult
time
to
provide
that
type
of
a
program.
So
they
they
understood-
and
they
have
done
this
before
in
terms
of
working
with
the
private
sector
and
going
through
going
through
this
this
the
process.
So
that's
what
it
is
in
a
nutshell.
I
hope
I'll
give
you
a
just
a
high
altitude
perspective
of
it
and
I'll
be
happy
to
entertain
any
questions.
Representative.
A
D
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
represent
fleming.
Thank
you
for
bringing
this
forward.
I'm
a
licensed
real
estate
broker
and
it's
not
uncommon
that
we'll
have
a
piece
of
property
that
somebody
owes
a
personal
tax
on
and
there
has
been
a
personal
lien
attached
to
them
recorded
attached
to
any
real
property
they
own.
Is
this
legislation
specific
to
prop
to
individuals
who
have
had
tax
liens
put
on
them,
or
could
this
be
for
any
situation
where
there's
a
tax
lien?
Could
you
elaborate
on
that
all.
K
J
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
This
seems
like
a
really
good
idea
to
me
and
it
sounds
like
other
states
have
successful
in
recovering
revenue
lost
revenue
and
so
other
than
the
department
of
revenue
being
short
staff,
and
you
know
how
do
we
administer
this?
Is
there
any
up
fact
that
you're
hearing
on
this
proposal
and
where
would
that
be
coming
from.
K
The
state
did
go
through
this
process
back
in
20
2011
and
they
collected
around
58
million
dollars
and
going
through
this
process,
and
it
was
like
all
hands
on
deck
in
terms
of
making
this
thing
happen,
and
so
that's
part
of
the
process
and
talking
to
them
that,
given
this
takes
a
lot
of
resources
and
hands
on
deck
and
they're
open
to
have
maybe
entertain
the
process
of
having
an
outside
firm
or
firms
to
come
in
and
handle
that.
K
That's
really
subjective,
but
to
be
honest
with
you,
as
I
mentioned,
it's
250
million
dollars.
That's
that's
been
identified.
That's
out
there
if
you
know
throwing
spaghetti
against
the
wall
and
not
to
not
to
hold
me
to
this,
but
you
know,
if
you
look
at
about
you
know,
50
of
that
it's
125
million,
even
80
million
dollars
you
know
is
you
know,
is
something
that
we
can.
K
We
can
recoup
and
you
know
funnel,
that
to
whatever
you
know,
whatever
program
or
or
issue
that
the
general
assembly
sees
so
they'll,
be
on
that
gain.
C
C
It
seems
to
me
that
when
we
every
10
years
or
every
so
often
have
one
of
these
programs
we're
encouraging
a
non-payment
of
tax,
because
the
feeling
is
well,
I
can
hold
on
to
the
money
now
and
they're
going
to
catch
me
later
on
and
I'll
just
pay
it
without
a
penalty
or
interest.
C
K
Representative
beckler,
I'm
sorry,
but
the
vice
chair
was
asking
me
a
question:
could
you.
K
K
Businesses
and
individuals
should
have
an
obligation
to
pay
their
bills.
Can
that
happen?
Sure
I
mean
they
they
can
play.
They
can
gain
the
system.
I
mean
there's
a
lot
of
game
in
the
system
out
there
and
on
quite
a
few
things,
but
but
it's
just
an
attempt
to
try
to
change
the
behavior
of
individuals
to
start
paying
their
taxes,
so
it
can
cut
both
ways.
A
And
I
will
go
even
further
with
that
one
economic
theory:
you
have
to
assume
you
have
completely
rational
actors
that
do
so
all
of
the
time
we
don't
have
that.
Also
in
economic
theory,
past
five
years
is
a
horizon.
You
cannot
see
so
a
10
or
12
year
horizon
on
tax.
Amnesty
is
further
than
an
economic,
rational
actor
would
even
be
looking
at.
A
K
Mr
chairman,
I
want
to
thank
the
vice
chair
to
come
up
and,
let's
make
sure
I
clarify
something.
I
think
I
answered
representative
tipton,
that
all
taxes,
when
I
say
all
taxes-
basically
state
taxes.
You
know
in
terms
of
property,
tax
and
motor
vehicles
and
so
forth.
You
know
we
need
to
be
conscious
of
those
and
those
shouldn't.
No,
they
won't
be
more
likely
to
be.
A
E
Just
one
one
question,
mr
chair:
would
it
be
possible
to
put
exemptions
in
there
for
those
that's
already
taken
advantage
of
this,
that
they're
no
longer
take
able
to
do
it
later,
which
may
appease
some
of
those
problems
that
we're
seeing
just
say
you
know
once
you
use
that
advantage,
you're
done!
No
more,
so
just
a
just
a
suggestion
or
thought.
Thank
you.
K
You're
correct.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
There
is
some
language
in
there
that
that
pertains
to
people
taking
advantage
of
this
before
and
so
forth.
K
I
need
to
go
back
and
verify
that
that's
in
there
how
how
what
it
reads
so,
but
that's
a
good
point
and
that's
something
definitely
needs
to
be
considered
because
yeah,
you
don't
want
to
have
that,
and
it
goes
again
but
goes
to
the
chairman
what
he
said
as
far
as
people
or
even
represented
bachelor
in
terms
of
people
repeating
so
yeah
once
you
do
it
you're
done
there
is.
K
There
is
a
provision
in
here
as
well
that
if
they
do
find
themselves,
they
want
to
actually
people
that
are
under
civil
or
any
type
of
a
case
they
have
with
the
revenue
they're
not
included
in
this.