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A
Everybody
to
the
first
meeting
of
the
Appropriations
and
revenue
committee
for
the
2023
session
of
the
general
assembly,
Madam
Secretary.
Please
call
the
roll.
A
Very
well
there
being
eight
members
present,
we
have
a
Cormac
dealer
constitute
to
conduct
business
for
both
of
you
who
like
to
watch
this
committee
at
home
online
on
a
regular
basis,
you'll
see
a
lot
of
new
faces
from
around
the
Commonwealth
that
we
are
glad
to
welcome.
Today,
a
lot
of
our
freshman
members
have
joined
this
committee
and
and
they're
certainly
a
breath
of
fresh
air
and
new
ideas,
and
we
do
appreciate
having
them
on
board.
A
D
D
The
conditions
laid
out
in
HB
House
Bill
8
from
2002
regular
session,
has
been
met
certified
by
the
executive
branch
resulting
in
the
personal
income
tax
rate
being
reduced
from
five
percent
to
4.5
percent
on
January
1st
2023
second
house
bill
1
codifies
from
implementation
of
the
second
rate
reduction,
which
has
been
certified
by
the
executive
branch
and
will
reduce
the
personal
income
tax
rate
from
4.5
percent
to
four
percent
on
January
1st
2024.
A
E
Thank
you,
and
can
you
hear
me
yes,.
A
E
Okay
and
I
think
that
Senator
Givens,
Senator,
McDaniel
and
Senator
Neal
are
the
only
people
that
are
still
here
from
when
I
was
here,
so
welcome
to
all
the
new
members.
I
look
forward
to
getting
to
know
you,
chairman,
McDaniel
and
members
of
the
anr
committee.
Thanks
for
this
opportunity
to
testify,
my
name
is
Pam
Thomas
and
I'm,
a
senior
fellow
at
the
Kentucky
Center
for
economic
policy.
I
spent
most
of
my
career
staffing.
This
committee
I
started
with
a
r
in
1991
and
I
retired
in
2016..
E
One
of
my
primary
roles
over
all
of
the
years
I
worked
at
lrc,
was
to
help
you
understand
the
policy
implications
of
the
decisions
that
you
make
and
I
really
did
love
my
job,
because
I
felt,
like
I,
was
helping
to
make
a
difference.
I
come
before
you
today
with
a
bat,
with
this
background
to
ask
you
to
reconsider
the
Practical
and
policy
implications
of
continuing
to
move
forward
with
the
additional
to
income
tax
reductions
under
house
bill,
one
from
a
fiscal
standpoint.
Things
are
really
good
right.
Now.
Revenues
are
strong.
E
The
budget
Reserve
trust
fund
is
at
a
record
level,
but
this
is
not.
This
is
also
the
case
for
almost
all
states,
not
just
Kentucky.
The
many
billions
of
federal
pandemic
aides
spurred
a
fast
recovery
and
inflation
is
higher
than
than
it
has
been
in
40
years,
but
those
causes
of
higher
tax
revenues
are
going
are
going
to
come
to
an
end.
Forecasters
don't
predict
the
same
growth
going
forward.
It's
interesting
to
note
that
without
the
income
tax,
we
wouldn't
have
a
significant
budget.
E
But
much
remains
to
be
done.
There's
a
critical
teacher
shortage,
affordable
child
care
isn't
readily
available
in
our
state,
the
Department
of
Juvenile
Justice
and
the
children
it
serves
are
suffering
greatly
because
of
the
inability
to
adequately
staff
facilities
and
much
more
investment
is
needed
to
help
people
in
Eastern
and
Western
Kentucky
to
recover
from
the
floods.
The
list
goes
on
and
the
needs
are
great.
My
concerned
about
the
continued
reduction
of
the
income
tax
rate
is
that
the
formula
on
which
the
cuts
are
based
is
static,
backwards,
facing
and
based
on
a
single
year.
E
It
doesn't
consider
the
future
or
the
content
within
which
revenues
are
raised,
and
recent
elevated
tax
collections
are
temporary
and
will
likely
not
continue,
but
the
cuts
will
be
permanent.
It's
really
hard,
as
you
know,
once
you
cut
something
to
go
back
the
other
day
and
they'll
result.
The
other
way
and
they'll
result
in
a
major
elusive
Revenue.
E
The
general
fund
is
going
to
lose
over
1.2
billion
dollars
annually
when
the
cut
from
five
to
four
percent
fully
phases
in
and
for
scale.
That's
more
than
1.1
billion
that
you
appropriated
to
fund
the
entire
system
of
higher
education.
That's
a
huge
hit
and
for
most
individuals
other
than
those
in
the
top
20
percent.
The
money
they'll
keep
in
in
their
pockets
as
a
result
of
the
cuts
is
small.
E
Kentuckians
who
are
under
the
poverty
line
receive
no
benefit
at
all,
because
they
don't
pay
income
taxes,
but
they
do
pay
a
bigger
portion
of
sales
taxes
as
their
overall
income
than
you
and
I
do
in
their
family
budgets.
The
typical
Kentucky
family,
those
in
the
middle
class,
will
retain
between
38
cents
and
five
dollars
a
week
from
the
rate
reduction
of
five
percent
to
four
percent,
hardly
noticeable
in
day-to-day
life.
So
there's
a
huge
gap
in
the
loss
of
revenues
at
the
state
level
when
compared
to
the
actual
benefit
to
individuals
and
families.
E
What
they're
actually
going
to
have
in
their
pockets-
and
you
know,
there's
not
a
whole
lot
of
room
with
other
taxes
to
make
up
the
Lost
Revenue
when
the
need
arises.
The
only
big
exemption
is
this
in
the
sales
tax
is
for
groceries,
one
of
the
few
exemptions
that
makes
that
tax
less
regressive
and
if
you
tax
groceries
at
the
full
six
percent
rate,
you'd
only
make
up
about
half
of
the
Lost
revenues.
E
E
There
just
simply
aren't
a
lot
of
places
to
go
in
Kentucky,
honestly,
we
don't
have
huge
tourist
spaces
like
Tennessee,
Nevada
and
Florida,
and
we
don't
have
oil
and
gas
like
Texas,
Alaska
and
Wyoming,
and
why
do
I
mention
those
States,
because
those
are
all
states
that
don't
have
an
income
tax,
but
the
reason
that
they
don't
is
because
they
have
other
places
that
they
can
go
that
can
Kentucky
just
doesn't
have
our
economy
is
very
different
from
these
other
states
and
the
differences
are
really
critically
important
to
consider.
I.
E
Think,
if
you
ask
your
constituents,
both
businesses
and
individuals,
what
they
want
expect
from
you
as
Leaders,
who
decide
how
State
dollars
are
spent
I,
think
they'll
tell
you.
They
want
good,
strong,
Public,
Schools
access
to
affordable
child
care,
safe
drinking
water
and
Roads
that
don't
have
potholes
and
they'll
tell
you.
A
Appreciate
it
are
there
any
questions
from
the
committee
at
this
point
all
right,
seeing
none
Madam
Secretary,
please
call
the
roll
oh
hold
on
I
need
a
motion
on
the
bill.
Forgive
me
a
little
rusty
from
Senator,
given
second
by
Senator
Boswell.
F
G
H
I'm,
proud
to
cast
now
vote
I
appreciate
the
work.
That's
gone
into
this
appreciate
the
insights
that
are
offered
by
those
that
have
concerns.
We
we
arrived
at
this
in
a
very
delicate
manner
for
those
that
were
engaged
in
the
conversation.
This
was
not
a
hasty,
a
piece
of
document
that
was
was
proposed.
We
worked
through
lots
of
iterations
to
get
to
the
right
place.
H
I
I
know
that
the
best
intentions
are
behind
this
initiating
the
house
bill.
One.
My
concern
is:
what's
been
expressed
from
that
bench
there
and
I
think
that
if
the
comparisons
that
we
make
use
in
Tennessee
primarily
is
as
a
an
example
of
why
we
should
be
doing
this
in
Kentucky.
I
think
really
does
not
hold
water
at
least
significantly
enough
for
me
to
make
a
decision
to
support
it.
At
this
time,
I
may
change
my
position
when
we
get
to
the
floor,
but
I'm
not
convinced
at
this
time.
A
C
Vote,
I
never
thought
we
would
be
explaining
our
defending
lowering
taxes
to
some
people.
They
talk
about
this
as
a
permanent
tax
cut.
Well,
all
of
the
tax
raises
were
permanent
tax
raises
in,
in
effect,
they're,
actually
only
permanent
until
the
legislature
changes
it
so
I'm
proud
to
lower
taxes
for
working
people
who
always
pay
the
taxes,
the
poor,
as
was
stated,
don't
pay
taxes
they're
in
a
rich,
don't
pay
taxes,
they
pass
it
on
or
avoided.
Somehow
it's
always
the
working
class.
It
pays
so
I'm
proud
to
lower
their
tax.
A
D
A
F
A
And
so
gentlemen,
if
you
guys,
would
please
introduce
yourself
for
the
record
and
proceed
with
your
testimony.
J
J
Mr
chairman,
thank
you
very
much.
This
bill
is
the
culmination
of
a
lot
of
work
over
a
long
period
of
time
and
in
fact,
when
I
was
first
approached
by
it,
it
was
2014
and
I
can
tell
you
that
the
majority
of
the
work
that
was
done
on
this
was
done
on
the
front
end
by
our
veterans
and
I
would
just
like
to
mention
their
names.
Ray
biggerstaff
was
the
first
one
who
came
to
see
me
about
this,
and
but
also
we
had
the
voice.
J
That's
behind
this
for
many
years
before
that
was
Colonel,
Spiller
and
I.
Think
that
we've
talked
about
this.
That,
and
it
would
be,
the
facility
would
be
named
after
him,
but
also
Bill
Lytle,
who
was
involved
in
that
our
Military
Officers
Association
worked
very
hard.
They
did
certificate
of
need
work
on
the
front
end
of
this,
and
we
had
our
leave.
J
Our
first
Hearing
in
the
vmap
committee
was
in
the
interim
of
2014,
if
I'm
not
mistaken,
but
I
can
tell
you
the
guy
sitting
next
to
me
on
the
right,
who
is
the
sponsor
of
this
bill
has
done
yeoman's
work
on
it.
In
fact,
I
think
when
we
had
a
little
scare
about
it,
was
going
to
cost
a
lot
more
than
what
we
originally
estimated
it
was
going
to
cost.
It
was
me
30
million.
The
feds
would
make
up
20
of
that,
and
we
would
have
to
provide
10.
F
J
They
approved
it
at
the
federal
level,
but
we
needed
an
additional
16.8
million.
Something
like
that
money,
and
so
this
guy
right
here
called
every
single
person
in
Washington,
DC,
I,
think
and
more,
and
they
finally
said
okay
you're
approved,
but
you
got
to
come
up
with
the
rest
of
the
money
and
so
what
happened
over
the
period
of
the
interim
this
past
year
was
both
sets
of
leadership
in
the
house
and
the
Senate
agreed
to
fund
this.
J
And
that's
why
we're
here
today
so
I'm
going
to
let
our
sponsor
here
share
anything
that
he'd
like
to
share
and
go
from
there.
Senator.
K
Wilson
has
done
the
hard
work
already
chairman,
McDaniel
members
of
committee,
I
will
just
say
the
the
price
tag
on
this
is
an
additional
16.63
million
dollars.
We
were
over
budget
about
18
million
dollars
totally
total
when
the
the
bids
came
in.
The
federal
government
was
able
to
pick
up
a
10
variance
of
the
amount
that
they
were
supposed
to
pick
up,
but
the
VA
allows
for
no
further
variance
beyond
the
10
percent
in
their
calculation.
K
So
again,
everyone
agreed
during
the
summer
of
this
past
year
that
we
would
fund
this
for
such
a
long,
coveted
project
that
we
have
worked
on
this
general
assembly
for
so
many
years.
First
budget
appropriation
on
this
happened
in
2017
I
believe.
J
K
A
See
General
Boswell.
K
H
Mr
a
brief
moment
of
indulgence
more
of
a
comment
than
a
question
and
colleague,
Mike,
Wilson
and
and
colleague,
Michael
Meredith,
thanks
for
your
leadership
on
this
issue,
Mr
chairman
thanks
for
hearing
this
important
piece
of
legislation
Mike,
my
friend
you
mentioned
Colonel
Spiller
and
I've
got
a
reminisce
for
just
a
moment
and
I
I.
H
Do
this
and
ask
some
Indulgence
Mr
chairman,
because
this
goes
back
to
the
late
1980s
I'm
not
going
to
recount
the
entire
stories
from
that
time
to
now,
but
late
1980s
there's
this
freshman
that
shows
up
at
Western,
Kentucky
University
and
ends
up
working
at
the
Ag
Expo
Center
and
his
name
is
David
Gibbons
and
he
arrives
there
from
the
farm
really
having
spent
very
little
time
in
any
City
the
size
of
Bowling
Green
and
he
Encounters
this
guy
living
there.
As
he's
living
there
at
the
Expo
Center.
H
Is
discovering
a
world
away
from
the
farm
at
the
same
time
he's
discovering
a
Taskmaster
that
shows
up
at
eight
o'clock
every
morning
once
the
Hall's
clean,
the
kitchen's,
clean,
the
restroom's
cleaned
and
it's
it's
kind
of
a
conflict
of
a
couple
of
Worlds
Colonel
Spiller,
though
his
passion
was
truly
the
veterans
and
late
1980s,
and
up
until
he
was
not
able
to
do
it
anymore.
H
I'm
excited
to
to
be
there
as
part
of
the
groundbreaking
and
excited
to
represent
part
of
Warren
County,
as
we
advocate
for
this
issue,
and
there
is
no
one
that
could
name
a
building
in
a
more
worthy
fashion
than
Colonel
Robert
Spiller,
as
it
relates
to
a
veteran's
facility
there
in
Bowling
Green.
Thank
you
thank.
G
K
So
this
is
going
to
be
a
60
bed
facility,
so
there
will
be
up
to
60
at
a
time
in
the
facility,
but
it
will
serve
about
24
counties
in
South,
Central
Kentucky,
where
there's
kind
of
a
donut
hole
of
not
having
one
of
these
facilities
near
to
them.
We
currently
have
five
five
of
these
facilities
across
the
state.
The
latest
was
done
in
Radcliffe
in
2014.
K
Prior
to
that,
you
had
Hazard
Wilmore
Hanson
in
Hopkins,
County,
I
guess
this
will
be
the
fifth
I
I
say
that
and
that
will
take
at
this
point.
I
think
the
state
has
an
allotment
for
about
another
120
beds
in
the
future.
There
is
potential
that
we
could
look
at
additional
30
beds
on
this
facility,
because
that's
what
we
originally
looked
at
before
prices
started
skyrocketing
on
this,
we
lowered
it
from
90
to
60
to
try
to
make
budget.
K
J
And
I
would
just
say
that
there
was
an
audit
that
was
done
by
our
veterans
administration
to
make
sure
where
it
was
going
to
be
placed,
and
it
was
found
that
South
Central
Kentucky,
where
it's
going
to
be
located,
was
their
area
of
most
need.
That
would
have
the
most
veterans.
It
seemed
like
it's
around
40
000
in
that
10
County
region,
something
like
that.
Yeah.
I
A
All
right
very
well:
oh
I
apologize,
Senator,
Deneen.
L
Can
you
hear
me
now,
okay,
here
in
my
district,
at
Fort
Knox,
and
it
is
the
latest
version
of
a
VA
facility
in
the
Carl
beshear
facility
there
I
just
want
to
thank
you
all
for
the
the
heavy
lifting
on
this
and
for
your
due
diligence.
It's
been
a
long
haul
to
service
these
people
that
need
our
help.
L
The
veterans
hold
the
very
dear
place
with
me
and
as
we
go
forward,
it's
just
not
just
the
facilities
that
that
we
need,
but
we
need
to
continue
to
look
as
we
go
forward
with
the
Staffing
of
those
I
know.
Our
our
newest
facility
in
Radcliffe
is
is
one
that
we
continue
to
need
those
staffings
to
fill
those
beds
and
I.
L
Think
what
we'll
find
in
Bowling
Green
is
a
huge
need
and
we'll
have
the
same
situation
that
we
have
there
in
Radcliffe
of
veterans
that
want
to
be
there
and
and
need
that
service.
So
thank
you
for
providing
an
additional
facility
and
all
your
work
that
you've
done
and
and
I
look
forward
to
Future
conversations
that
we
can
have
to
to
further
staff
those
areas.
J
A
A
Absolutely
been
tireless
and
the
veterans
in
the
Bowling
Green
community
are
you
dead
of
gratitude,
and
certainly
Senator
Wilson
has
long
had
your
back
in
this
chamber.
As
things
came
across
and
Senator
Givens
has
developed
an
interest
in
all
things:
Bowling
Green
as
well
I,
know
I.
Think
we've
got
some
Tiff
work
to
work
on
a
little
bit
later
in
this
session.
That's
going
to
be
critical,
critical
to
that
Community
as
well,
but
I
do
want
to
take
the
time
to
congratulate
you,
but
also
to
remark
about
the
nature
of
this.
A
This
is
largely
due
to
some
inflation,
some
construction
costs,
but
they're
very,
very,
very,
very,
very
unique
in
long-term
things
involving
our
relationship
with
the
federal
government
on
this.
So
for
all
those
who
are
currently
licking
their
chops
at
the
idea
of
this
and
and
getting
more
money
for
construction
and
inflation.
I
would
encourage
you
to
take
the
biblical
maximum
and
abandon
all
hope,
because
the
odds
are
not
very
high,
but
that
being
said,
I
do
congratulate
you
both
congratulate
the
Bowling
Green
community
and
with
nine
eye
votes
and
no
nay
votes.