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From YouTube: House Standing Committee on Licensing, Occupations, and Administrative Regulations (3-2-23)-Upon Adj
Description
Meeting will take place sometime upon Adjournment of the House Chambers
A
Okay,
good
afternoon
representative
Matt
Cook,
officially
calling
the
special
called
meeting
of
Licensing
and
occupations
to
order
thank
everyone
for
being
here
today,
as
I
just
stated
a
few
minutes
ago.
This
is
going
to
be
no
standing
in
here,
we're
going
to
keep
the
doors
closed
and
the
highway
is
clear
to
get
out
safety
reasons
we're
going
to
respect
the
rules.
Just
like
we'd
have
on
the
house
floor.
We're
not
going
to
have
any
props
anything
pictures
hanging
on
the
wall.
Etc,
that's
for
all
parties,
overflow
room
as
I
mentioned
before,
is
room
149..
A
Please
silence
your
cell
phone,
so
we
don't
have
any
destruction
disruption.
Sorry
disruption
going
on
as
we
as
our
testifiers
are
up
here.
Presenting
the
format
for
today
is
going
to
run
like
this
we're
going
to
go.
20
minutes
the
bill,
sponsor
allowable
Bill,
sponsor
to
get
up
and
present
we'll
go
20
we'll
allow
the
table
to
bring
his
accompanying
parties
up
with
him
will
allow
allow
them
to
change
seats
once
they're
finished,
we'll
allow
20
minutes
from
the
gray
machine
that
have
signed
up
to
speak.
You'll
have
20
minutes
at
that
point.
A
We'll
stop
I'll,
give
a
very
brief
conclusion
to
the
bill
sponsor
and
team
and
then
we'll
go
into
questions
we'll
do
that
for
roughly
20
or
so
minutes
when
they
start
to
wrap
down.
We
will
vote
I
love
everybody
here,
but
I
don't
want
to
spend
the
night
with
you.
So
that
being
said,
Madam
Secretary,
please
call
the
roll.
A
If
you
all
bring
all
your
team
up
to
the
table
and
go
ahead
and
make
sure
your
green
green
buttons
are
on,
if
everybody
just
go
ahead,
introduce
yourself
for
the
record
before
anybody
starts
and
that
way
we're
all
ready
to
roll
I.
Think
Colonel
Arnett's
coming
up
to
the
table
now
so
for
everybody,
yeah
just
go
across
there
and
introduce
everybody
and
then
we'll
begin.
D
D
D
The
charitable
gaming
industry
has
contributed
and
agreed
to
this
language.
The
state
fair
board
contributed
and
agreed
to
this
language.
The
University
of
Kentucky
contributed
and
agreed
to
this
language
and
for
one
of
the
elephants
in
the
room.
Yes,
the
racetracks
have
seen
and
contributed
to
the
language
they
don't
like
all
of
it,
but
are
not
opposing
the
bill.
No,
it
is
not
Churchill
Downs
bill.
D
Kentucky
has
always
done
an
excellent
job
of
regulating
gaming
and
we
want
to
continue
that
effort
Now
by
outlawing
illegal
gaming
machines
and
explicitly
saying
what
is
and
what
is
not
gambling
and
what
is
and
what's
not
devices
machines
are
gambling
machines
and
which
are
not
before
I
get
into
that
I'm.
Going
to
let
my
guests
introduce
themselves
briefly
and
describe
their
involvement
in
this
process.
D
E
Thank
you
thank
you
and
thank
you
committee
for
having
us
today,
I'm
Ashley,
Watts,
I'm,
president
and
CEO
of
the
Kentucky
Chamber
of
Commerce.
The
chamber,
as
you
all
know,
is
the
state's
largest
Business
Association.
We
have
been
around
for
76
years
here
in
the
Commonwealth
of
Kentucky,
and
what
you
may
not
know
is
that
70
percent
of
our
membership
from
all
across
Kentucky
are
made
up
of
small
businesses
with
a
hundred
employees
or
less
yesterday,
I.
Think
many
of
you
all
met
with
some
of
our
members
from
across
the
Commonwealth.
E
It
was
our
small
business
day
here
at
the
Capitol.
We
had
over
a
hundred
guests
come
here
and
meet
with
you
all
and
let
them
tell
you
a
little
bit
about
their
small
businesses
all
across
Kentucky.
The
chamber
has
made
clear
our
position
to
ban
grain
machines
for
a
number
of
reasons,
but
first
and
foremost
it
was
our
membership
who
requested
that
we
vet
this
bill
and
it
was
our
membership
who
were
in
agreement
in
taking
the
policy
position
of
supporting
the
ban.
E
As
you
all
know,
and
many
of
you
have
gone
through
this
process,
all
of
our
policy
decisions
at
the
Kentucky
chamber
are
driven
by
our
membership.
There's
a
rigorous
process
where
a
member
or
a
legislator
such
as
yourself
asks
us
to
vet
legislation.
It
is
brought
to
a
vote
before
one
of
our
policy
councils
and
then
approved
or
not
approved
by
our
board,
and
they
are
executive
committee.
Our
members
support
Banning
these
machines
because
the
way
in
which
they
have
been
instituted
illegally
without
government
authorization
or
oversight.
E
We
have
made
our
position
on
this
issue
very
transparent,
both
publicly
and
within
our
membership.
To
this
day,
I
have
not
received
one
single
call,
email
or
text
message
for
many
Kentucky
chamber
member
from
across
the
Commonwealth
expressing
their
disagreement
on
our
position.
You
all
know
the
Kentucky
chamber.
We
tackle
big
policy
issues
that
impact
the
state's
economy,
such
as
tax
reform,
unemployment,
insurance
reform
issues
dealing
with
Workforce,
and
you
also
know
that
we
are
unabashed
supporters,
cheerleaders
and
advocates
for
our
signature
Industries.
E
Here
in
Kentucky,
we
have
worked
really
hard
to
become
the
horse
capital
of
the
world,
the
bourbon
capital
of
the
world,
and
we
do
not
want
to
do
anything
that
could
put
this
in
Jeopardy,
and
we
know
that
some
of
these
machines
pose
a
threat
to
the
equine
industry
that
you
all,
as
a
legislature,
have
fought
so
hard
to
protect.
Not
one
single
member
of
the
chamber
decides
what
position
we
take
on
a
given
bill.
You
all
know
it's
a
very
thorough
process
with
a
lot
of
input
going
into
it.
E
This
bill
went
through
the
process
and
we
are
proud
to
support
representative
Kelly
and
timony's
Bill.
So,
on
behalf
of
the
chamber,
the
state's
largest
Business
Association.
We
strongly
urge
members
of
this
committee
to
support
House,
Bill,
594
and
I.
Thank
you
for
allowing
me
the
opportunity
to
speak
today.
Thank
you.
A
F
F
F
G
Good
afternoon,
as
indicated,
I
am
Mark,
gilfoyle
and
I'm
here
to
speak
on
behalf
of
the
kentuckians
against
illegal
gambling.
Our
Coalition
consists
of
the
state's
horse
industry,
charitable
gaming
operators
and
the
four
main
Chambers
of
Commerce
we've
bluntly
stated
that
these
gray
games
are
illegal
and
here's.
Why?
First,
we
think
it's
very
telling
that
the
Kentucky
Fraternal
Order
of
Police
has
ended
its
fundraising
partnership
with
the
great
game
operators
that
speaks
volumes.
G
G
Sadly,
it's
already
happening
here
in
Kentucky
four
weeks
ago,
in
Litchfield
Kentucky
two
men
broke
into
a
convenience
store
overnight,
busted
open
the
gray
machines
and
stole
all
the
cash
they're
known
as
Smash,
and
grab
robberies
in
Pennsylvania
and
they're
very
common
in
Pennsylvania.
So
as
these
machines
proliferate
in
Kentucky
we're
sure
to
see
more
crime
like
that,
we've
warned
that
taxing
and
regulating
really
is
not
an
option.
It
just
won't
work.
G
So
last
November
at
the
interim
committee,
the
gray
machine
operators
were
proposing
that
the
Department
of
Revenue
be
the
regulatory
body.
Now
in
House
Bill
525
the
regulation
bill,
they
want
to
create
a
whole
new
agency
of
state
government.
The
Kentucky
Gaming
Commission
is
more
big
government
really
what
kentuckians
want?
We
don't
think
so,
and
just
how
big
and
heavy-handed
would
such
a
new
branch
of
state
government
have
to
be
to
monitor
tax
and
regulate
many
casinos
in
every
one
of
our
120
counties.
G
We've
warned
that
not
passing
legislation
to
ban
these
machines
will
lead
to
the
largest
expansion
of
gambling
in
the
history
of
Kentucky
gray.
Machine
operators
originally
proposed
to
limit
their
locations
to
locations
where
alcohol
was
sold
and
there
were
8
000
of
those
Statewide
and
up
to
five
machines
per
location.
So
that's
40
000
machines
at
a
minimum
in
their
original
proposal.
Now,
if
you
read
their
bill,
you'll
see
that
they
want
to
place
these
anywhere.
G
The
new
gaming
commission
says
they
can
go
so
how
many
are
we
going
to
have
fifty
thousand
ninety
thousand
there's
ninety
thousand
in
Pennsylvania
or
more
so,
make
no
mistake
unless
you
pass
House
Bill
594
we're
going
to
see
many
casinos
popping
up
on
every
street
corner
across
Kentucky.
These
things
are
going
to
be
woven
into
the
fabric
of
everyday
life.
G
We've
also
warned
Mr
chairman
that
the
six
percent
tax
on
Gross
profits
is
completely
inadequate
and
entirely
out
of
line
with
what
we
see
in
other
states,
typically
30
to
50
percent
on
slot
machines,
but
look
at
the
allocations
that
they
have
in
house
bill.
525.
only
10
percent
go
to
the
State
Police,
which
is
denominated
as
the
enforcement
body
10
of
the
six
percent
tax
for
the
state
police.
G
That's
a
pittance
and
consider
that
the
state
police
don't
even
Patrol
in
the
urban
areas
of
our
state,
Northern
Kentucky,
for
example,
the
state
police
aren't
in
Boon
Kenton
and
Campbell
counties.
So
that's
a
serious
flaw
now
the
part
about
making
sure
that
kids
won't
be
playing
these
games.
The
reality
is
busy
store,
clerks
and
restaurant
staff.
Simply
don't
have
the
time
or
the
attention
to
monitor
forty
thousand
plus
machines
and
over
80
000
locations.
There's
just
no
way
to
keep
effectively
keep
miners
from
playing
these
games.
G
We
shouldn't
be
rewarding
people
who've,
come
in
to
our
state,
with
no
legislative,
Authority,
No,
Authority
whatsoever,
set
up
shop
and
now
come
to
you
and
say
well
just
taxes
and
regulate
us.
It's
not
practical
and,
quite
frankly,
that's
not
the
way
we
do
business
here
in
Kentucky.
We
ask
you
all
to
please
consider
supporting
house
bill
594..
I
I
will
be
brief
because
I
know
you're
on
a
time
crunch.
My
name
is
Shannon
stiglitz
I'm
the
senior
vice
president
of
government
affairs,
with
the
Kentucky
retail
Federation
and,
as
representative
timony
stated,
the
we
are
so
grateful
for
the
opportunity
to
work
closely
with
him
to
ensure
that
the
Chuck
E
Cheese's,
the
Dave
and
Buster's
games
are
protected.
I
We
have
consistently
raised
that
as
a
concern
that
we
wanted
to
make
sure
that
they
would
be
protected
along
with
Esports,
and
so
we
are
grateful
that
that
has
taken
been
taken
care
of
in
the
committee
substitute
I
want
to
thank
the
chairman
and
all
of
those
who
worked
with
us
so
quickly
to
accomplish
that
goal.
Thank
you.
D
D
Thus,
this
legislation
through
this
process
clarifies
what
other
types
of
gaming
and
accompanying
devices
are
legal
under
Kentucky
law.
The
focus
is
on
KRS
chapter
528.010,
which
is
the
definitions
for
all
things:
gambling
and
not
gambling.
First
in
section,
one,
this
bill
defines
a
coin-operated
Amusement
machine.
This
type
of
gaming
machine
includes
the
types
of
games
that
our
state
and
our
county
fairs
and
other
places
such
as
Chuck
E
cheese.
D
It
sits
a
25
limit
per
game,
but
allows
for
Redemption
games
that
allow
a
player
to
aggregate
their
winnings
for
a
larger
prize
such
as
the
PlayStation
on
the
top
of
the
shelf
that
my
kids
always
want
to
win,
but
we
never
do
the
iPad
or
other
larger
teddy
bear.
For
example,
the
winnings
cannot
be
exchanged
for
cash
or
alcoholic
beverages.
D
The
next
thing
Bill
does
is
it
defines
Esports.
This
occurred
at
the
request
of
the
University
of
Kentucky
to
protect
the
multi-million
dollar
facility
at
houses
for
video
games
involving
Athletics.
Next,
this
bill
explicitly
states
that
the
machines
that
operate
the
way
gray
machines
operate
are
illegal.
This
definition,
which
is
exemplary
of
exactly
how
they
work,
is
included
in
the
existing
definition
of
a
gambling
device.
D
D
Finally,
there's
an
amendment
which
removes
the
emergency
Clause
to
allow
ample
time
to
comply,
should
this
bill
become
law.
Now,
let
me
address
the
argument
you
have
all
heard
these
are
games
of
skill,
not
chance
this
weather,
something
is
skill
or
chance
is
about
whether
something
is
a
lottery
in
cases
before
Kentucky
courts.
Interpreting
the
Constitution,
that's
it.
D
This
moniker
is
a
red
herring
and
nothing
more,
but
to
eliminate
any
question
and
to
reinforce
that
it
is
the
legislature
that
decides
what
is
gambling
and
what
is
not.
This
bill
eliminates
any
distinction
between
skill
and
chance.
It
then
defines
the
things
that
are
gambling
and
gambling
devices
and
exempts
those
that
are
not.
Thank
you.
A
A
M
K
Thank
you
chairman,
and
thank
you
members
for
allowing
us
to
to
collectively
speak
out
in
opposition
to
HB
594.
I'm
with
peso
Matic.
We
operate
the
burning
barrel
brand
of
cabinets
in
Kentucky.
We
have
about
2500
terminals
operating
in
the
Commonwealth
KY
Mac
is
also
here.
They
join
us
in
opposition
and
represent
over
400
Kentucky
small
businesses
and
fraternal
clubs,
many
of
them
sitting
behind
me
today.
K
Our
legal
skill
game
servers
an
important
Lifeline
to
small
businesses
and
fraternal
clubs.
They
provide
consistent,
reliable
and
supplemental
revenue
for
these
establishments
at
a
time
they
need
it
most
they're
dealing
with
the
impacts
of
inflation.
I'm
sure
many
of
you
are
hearing
about
the
difficulties
they're
having
with
hiring
it
is
a
real
problem
for
them.
I'm
gonna
allow
Camry
to
BJ
novelty,
to
discuss
the
impact
skill
games
I've
had
on
her
business
and
those
of
her
customers,
but
I
want
to
speak
a
directly
about
the
the
bill.
K
K
The
only
thing
that
is
clear
about
this
bill
is
that
it
solely
intends
to
punish
the
Kentucky
small
businesses,
who
are
seated
behind
me.
I,
ask
yourselves
for
what
for
whom
here's
some
of
the
misinformation
that's
been
spread
about
our
industry
to
help
push
HB
594.,
they
say
skill
games,
don't
want
to
be
regulated
or
pay
an
additional
tax
wrong.
K
We
worked
with
representative
Doane
to
introduce
HB
525,
which
has
been
dumped
into
Bill
Purgatory,
presumably
in
favor
of
this
ban
effort
led
by
Churchill
Downs
that
legislation
would
have
fairly
regulated
taxi
industry.
What
is
true
is
the
HHR
facilities
in
Kentucky
currently
pay
one
of
the
lowest
tax
rates
in
the
nation.
With
map
multiple
tax
write-offs
in
Pennsylvania,
which
was
referenced,
they
pay
54
percent
tax
rate,
I.
K
They
say
that
our
games
are
harming
the
revenues
at
HHR
facilities
in
the
lottery.
That's
that's
not
correct,
and
just
this
week
we've
heard
rumors
that
Churchill
Downs
is
now
claiming
they're
experiencing
Revenue
declines
in
Kentucky
and
their
growth,
which
they're
having
record
growth,
is
in
other
markets.
K
Hhr
and
the
lottery
have
had
high
record
high
revenues.
In
fact,
Churchill
Downs
reaped
over
1.3
billion
in
net
revenue
in
just
nine
months
of
2022.,
their
CEO
Bill
carstandian
himself
spoke
on
the
record
quote.
With
respect
to
our
live
and
historical
racing
segment
and
our
gaming
segment,
we've
delivered
record
first
quarter
Revenue
in
adjusted
ebitda.
We
experience
continued
strong
growth
from
our
Derby
City
gaming
facility
are
Oak
Grove
properties
as
well
as
a
nice
Improvement
at
our
smaller
Newport
racing
and
Gaming
facilities.
K
Churchill's
growth
nationally
is
being
fueled
by
Kentucky
slots.
Here,
that's
a
fact:
they
have
set
our
locations
attract
additional
crime
wrong
with
respect
to
Crime.
Anything
asserted
by
the
other
side
is
anecdotal,
in
fact,
the
the
situation
being
highlighted
here
by
the
picture.
It
looks
like
a
legal
gambling
vices
which
this
bill
does
not
address.
There's
no
funding
in
this
bill.
It's
an
unfunded
mandate
to
clean
up
any
illegal
gambling,
the
only
Bill
that
would
have
done
that
was
HP
525.
K
What's
not
anecdotal
is
the
crime
that
is
occurring
at
HHR
slots
parlors,
which
stand
to
be
given
more
power
and
authority,
while
one
side
references
thefts
which
no
one
condones
I,
think
we
would
all
agree
that
crimes
against
children
are
reprehensible
right
now
we
know
that
crimes
against
children
have
occurred
at
Kentucky,
HHR
facilities
and
Churchill
is
a
long
record
of
established
crimes
at
their
casinos
related
to
kids
being
locked
in
the
cars
in
Kentucky
casinos,
we
have
guns
being
fired
in
facilities.
No
one
is
reporting
about
these
crimes.
K
We
had
to
send
folks
to
the
courthouses
to
find
them
in
other
states.
In
a
real
regulated
environment
established
gaming
companies
are
required
to
publicly
report
those
crimes
to
the
public,
not
in
Kentucky
they,
including
a
board
member
of
the
State
Chamber,
have
said
the
Kentucky
small
businesses
are
not
equipped
to
handle
the
rigors
of
Regulation
to
operate
skill
games.
That
is
also
not
correct.
Small
businesses
navigate
a
lot
and
these
owners
are
Savvy.
K
It's
insulting,
to
say
the
least,
to
insinuate
that
small
businesses
are
too
dumb
or
less
capable
than
their
counterparts
in
Wyoming,
Georgia
Washington
you
see
and
other
jurisdictions
where
they
operate.
Skill
games
in
regulated
environment
to
show
you
how
rigged
the
push
for
this
legislation
to
become
the
Kentucky
Chamber
of
Commerce
has
chosen
to
put
the
interest
of
big
business
partners
like
Churchill
over
the
interest
of
Kentucky
small
businesses
and
your
constituents.
The
reasoning
small
businesses
are
stupid.
K
They
have
said
that
skill
games,
industry
goal
is
to
have
over
40
I
heard
50.
Today,
games,
50,
000
game
terminals
across
the
state,
just
not
correct
and
HB
525
at
a
limited.
The
number
of
terminals
per
location
required
operators
to
apply
for
licenses
as
well
as
certify
their
games,
are
in
fact
games
of
skill
to
illustrate
how
ridiculous
their
talking
point
is.
In
Virginia
a
state
twice
the
size
of
Kentucky.
K
They
had
about
10
000
games,
Statewide
operating
a
regulated
market
that
would
equate
to
closer
to
5
000
games
in
Kentucky,
hardly
the
50
000
that
are
being
alleged
and
then.
Lastly,
despite
overwhelming
evidence
to
the
contrary,
they've
said
our
games
are
illegal.
They
bring
up
Rowan
County.
The
Rowan
County
was
a
organized
pickup
that
we
coordinated
with
the
local
authorities
to
fight
back
against
the
assertions
that
were
illegal
so
to
say
that
that
was
somehow
a
pickup
is
just
not
accurate.
K
In
fact,
if
we
were
illegal,
you
would
think
these
be
picking
up
being
picked
up
everywhere,
and
this
bill
would
be
completely
unnecessary,
so
I'm
going
to
let
Bob
Heller
here
speak
a
little
bit
more
to
the
legal
part
of
this.
But
at
this
point,
I'd
like
to
turn
over
the
presentation
to
camera
Reed
of
BJ
novelty
discussed
the
impact
of
skill
games
on
her
business.
L
Thank
you
Mike,
as
for
being
here
today
and
mostly
for
serving
our
state.
It's
been
a
long
day.
My
name
is
cama
Reed,
my
husband
Jeff
and
I
and
BJ
novelty,
a
company
that
my
father-in-law
founded
here
in
Kentucky
in
1955..
We
are
an
amusement
vending
company
and
we
serve
we're
located
in
Northern
Kentucky,
with
Personnel
in
Louisville
and
in
Lexington,
and
we
serve
counties
all
over
the
state.
L
L
Skill
games
are
just
that
games
that
require
memory,
quickness
and
skill.
They
are
not
slot
machines,
just
as
a
Kentucky's
Lottery's
profits
have
soared
in
the
past
fiscal
year.
Skill
games
will
not
harm
the
slot
machine,
profits
or
beloved
horsing
industry
skill
games
help
small
businesses
like
ours.
We've
hired
six
new
employees
this
past
year.
Something
that's
difficult
to
do.
L
Skill
games
help
small
businesses
in
each
of
your
districts.
Think
of
your
Main
Street
in
your
District
I
am
thankful
for
representative
Dunn
and
representative
Maddox.
For
acknowledging
there
is
room
for
Vitality
on
our
main
streets.
We
can
still
Thrive
and
survive.
Those
storefronts
that
are
closed
can
now
reopen.
L
L
With
its
language,
House
Bill
594
can
jeopardize
bowling
alleys
golf
courses,
basically
any
business
that
offers
leagues
or
tournaments
and
distributes
cash
as
a
reward
for
someone's
skill.
I.
Ask
each
of
us
today
to
understand
that
redefining
words
and
creating
monopolies
is
not
how
either
party
was
formed
to
work
or
how
our
state
really
does
benefit.
L
M
With
you,
late
scratch,
I'm
Bob
hellringer
again
for
the
record
I
represent
prominent
Technologies
I
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
come
here
and
speak
against
house
bill.
594..
First
of
all,
I
want
to
say
how
much
the
horse
racing
industry
means
to
me
personally
I
brought
before
they
were
taken
down.
Some
of
the
pictures
of
my
family
in
Winter
circles
at
various
race
tracks
around
the
country.
My
mother
had
a
stable
of
horses.
She
was
very
successful
and
won
races.
M
I
started
as
a
19
year
old
worker
in
the
publicity
department
at
Miles
Park
I
kept
the
jockey
statistics
I
put
myself
through
Xavier
University,
helped
to
put
myself
through
there
working
as
a
mutual
clerk
at
Turfway,
Park
I
was
in
the
union.
I've
worked
as
a
racing
official
at
tracks.
All
over
the
country,
I've
been
a
Turf
rider
for
blood
horse
magazine
and
other
Publications
I've
been
an
equine
lawyer.
M
I
wrote
an
equine
law
textbook
brought
a
copy
of
it
with
me,
bring
my
own
props
and
I've
written
op-ed
columns
for
The
Courier
Journal
250
in
10
years,
15.
supporting
the
horse
racing
industry.
All
of
them.
This
isn't
about
hurting
or
helping
the
horse
racing
industry.
It's
about
whether
or
not
we're
going
to
give
them
a
monopoly.
How
far
are
we
going
to
go?
How
far
are
you
going
to?
Let
them
go
to
crush
anyone
who
they
think
is
a
possible
competitor,
we're
not
a
competitor.
M
It's
not
the
same
person
that
goes
to
the
racetrack
that
goes
to
the
HHR
facilities.
It's
just
not
the
same.
We
are
not
competition
and
competition.
Racing
is
thriving
in
the
state.
Thriving
purses
are
at
an
all-time
high.
Kentucky
Downs
has
the
highest
persons
in
the
nation.
Are
signature
tracks,
Churchill,
Downs
in
Keeneland,
higher
than
anywhere
I,
think
even
higher
than
Saratoga
Mr
chairman,
so
they're,
not
in
any
trouble
whatsoever,
but
yet
they
want
to
crush
us
to
to
clear
the
way
for
the
Monopoly,
and
we
are
legal.
M
M
Just
you
know.
This
is
a
bad
look.
Folks,
I'll
be
honest
with
you.
The
Republicans
on
the
panel
I
was
here
as
a
lobbyist
and
heard
of
the
speeches
on
the
right
to
work
law.
You
know
people
pledging
their
devotion
and
dedication
to
the
free
enterprise
system
to
open
markets
to
competition.
Okay,
where
are
those
voices
today?
Okay,
this
is
a
bill
to
establish
a
monopoly.
M
It's
a
it's
a
bad
precedent
to
set
we're
going
to
let
Makers
Mark
come
in
here
and
say:
well,
we
need
you
to
pass
a
bill
to
make
any
out-of-state
bourbon
illegal
or
maybe
even
our
competitors.
Why
not?
They
got
a
big
stick
too.
Okay,
you're
going
to
entertain
that
you're
going
to
set
that
kind
of
precedent.
M
I
think
the
main
question
here
today
that
you
have
to
answer
is
whose
side
are
you
on
okay,
I
mean
if
you
pass
this
bill
and
you
run
out
of
our
state
companies
that
have
made
invest
sizable,
Investments
here,
okay,
you
run
them
out.
They
go
back
home
to
Pennsylvania.
Have
you
fixed
them?
Did
you
show
them?
You
know
they
didn't
come
here
and
ask
permission.
Oh
I'm,
so
tired
of
hearing
that
what
kind
of
standard
do
you
require
that
of
any
other
business?
M
Okay,
it's
a
tough
Market
out
there
for
these
convenience
stores,
liquor
stores,
grocery
stores,
small
businesses,
we're
not
in
a
single
chain
we're
all
in
small
business.
That's
who
you're
going
to
hurt?
That's?
Who
you're
going
to
hurt
with
this
bill,
and
the
question
you
have
to
answer
for
yourself
is
whose
side
are
you
on?
M
Because
you
know
what
they're
going
to
remember
these
people?
A
lot
of
them
are
first
generation
Americans,
they
have
dreams,
they've
started
a
business,
we
ought
to
be
thanking
them.
Welcoming
them
and
we
have
we've
got
a
bill.
Mr
Guilfoyle
says
we're
not
regulated
we're
not
taxed.
We've
come
with
a
bill
to
do
that,
and
we
get
criticized
for
that.
M
We
want
to
be
regular.
How
many
times
you
also
have
you
been
there
a
while
how
many
people
have
companies
have
come
here
and
said?
Please,
tax
us,
please
regulate
us!
Please
license
us
we're
willing
to
do
that.
We
want
to
work
with
state
government.
We
don't
want
to
be
runoff
and
crushed
under
the
heel
of
big
business.
N
A
O
O
O
If
they're
saying
now,
they
can't
survive
without
these
machines
and
then
take
a
look
at
your
receipts
before
you
got
the
machines
for
whatever
you
sell,
I,
don't
know
what
each
one
sells
and
then
compared
to
the
receipts
for
that
same
product
now
and
see.
If
there's
how
much
of
a
difference
there
is
and
then
see
if
the
machines
have
actually
made
up
that
difference.
A
Thank
you,
Mr
Cole
appreciate
it.
Okay,
let's
move
to
questions,
so
two
groups
just
be
ready
to
come
forward
and
we'll
identify
which
group
the
questions
directed
to
as
it
comes
representative
bratcher
lets
you
go
first,
okay,
can
you
just
start
off
with
who
your
question
is
to
and
let
them
come
forward.
M
No,
no
sir,
we
have
glad
you
brought
that
up.
Thank
you.
The
our
machines
by
contract
I'm
only
talking
about
my
company
but
I,
must
be
near
the
cash
register
near
the
entrance
or
exit
to
the
stores
they're
watched
continually
by
the
owner
and
the
proprietor.
Okay.
We
do
not
permit
underage
people
to
play
our
games.
C
Are
you
guys
wanting
to
see
one
on
you?
It
was
told
just
earlier
that
you
guys
want
to
see
a
machine
on
every
street
corner.
Is
anybody
speaking
for
that?
Is
anybody
out
there
that
wants
to
see
one
on
every
street
corner
and
now
the
now
the
other,
the
other
group
I,
have
one
question
and
I'll
be
done
very
good.
G
C
C
G
C
P
P
The
thing
that
I
find
kind
of
interesting
about
that
is.
They
now
want
to
be
regulated
because
they
thought
they
were
going
to
be
banned.
They
didn't
seek
to
be
regulated
in
the
beginning
when
they
came
here,
they
asked
every
individual
County
attorney
in
the
state
instead
of
looking
to
the
state
legislature
who
authorizes
gambling
across
the
entire
breadth
and
depth
of
the
Commonwealth
and
I
think
that's
a
flaw
in
the
argument
that
was
made,
but
I
have
a
real
specific
question
and
I'll
start
with
with
their
side
and
I.
P
P
Part
of
Regulation
is
regulating
that,
especially
in
this
machine
format
of
gambling.
Is
we
regulate
by
actually
monitoring
and
looking
into
those
machines
and
doing
studies
into
those
machines
HHR,
for
example,
the
takeout
rate,
the
hold
rate
for
the
company
and
I
think
it's
regulated
in
statute
and
to
be
in
compliance.
Those
machines
cannot
have
over
a
seven
to
eight
percent,
takeout
or
hold
rate.
Could
you
all
tell
me
what
URLs
hold
or
takeout
rate
is
on
your
awesome
machines?
P
K
P
P
Sorry
I
agree,
but
the
economic
study
that
was
done
on
that
several
years
ago
by
Commonwealth
economics
outside
group
studied
that
issue
to
try
to
figure
out
what
the
potential
Revenue
was,
what
the
total
amount
of
the
handle
was
and
they
had
an
estimated
takeout
rate
or
hold
rate
on,
what's
again
a
skill
game,
and
it
was
about
seven
percent.
So
you
have
to
have
a
what
you're
realizing
in
Revenue,
averaged
out
across
your
business
model
as
a
holder,
a
takeout
rate.
K
Q
A
P
Obviously,
they
spent
some
time
on
the
Dave
and
Buster's
issue
and
the
Chuck
E
cheese
issue
and
so
unintended
consequences
or
something
I
think
we're
all
trying
to
make
sure
we
don't
get
into
with
related
to
this.
This
type
of
legislation,
county
fairs,
state
fairs,
local
church
festivals,
things
of
that
nature,
where
you
have
a
duck
pond
game
where
you
have
a
a
a
coin,
bulldozer
game,
those
kinds
of
things.
P
D
H
H
That's
right,
you
know,
I.
We
we've
gone
back
and
forth
about
this
situation
for
a
couple
of
years
now,
I
too
am
for
well
regulated
gambling
in
Kentucky,
I,
I
hate.
The
thought
of
you
know
just
proliferation
of
of
really
anything.
I
think
that
we
need
to
be
really
cautious,
I
I
think
it's.
You
know
on
one
hand
hypocritical
to
vote
for
HHR
and
sports
wagering,
but
those
are
both
regulated.
I
H
So
that's
what
brings
me
back
to
to
my
I
guess
my
point
I,
you
know
I'm
I'm
for
regulating.
We
still
don't
have
a
bill
to
vote
on
that
would
regulate
it.
I've
had
conversations
with
representative,
timoney
and
I
appreciate
that
and
I
appreciate
all
of
your
work
on
this
I
really
do
I
I
know
that
we've
talked
about.
If,
if
we
clean
the
Slate
that
will
come
back
next
year
and
regulate
games,
how
plausible
is
that
I
mean?
Is
Churchill
willing
to
work
with
us
to
do
this.
G
I,
don't
know
that
either
one
of
us
is
in
a
position
to
speak
for
Churchill
Downs,
representative
Moser
I
would
say
that
all
of
the
talk
about
Monopoly
in
this
hyper
focus
on
Churchill
I
think
is
really
misplaced.
It's
like
they
didn't
even
listen
to
Mr
Arnett,
the
veterans
groups,
the
Kentucky
Council
on
churches,
a
lot
of
the
charitable
organizations
that
are
out
there
other
than
veterans
groups.
There
is
a
broad-based
coalition
against
these
machines.
So
it's
really
not
just
a
matter
of
Churchill,
Downs
and
I'm.
Sorry
that
it's
kind
of
come
to
that
I.
H
H
G
R
I
M
My
client
makes
no
apologies
for
they're
in
business
and
we
don't
have
as
many
machines
as
our
competitors
pay
somatic
and
we
want
to
address
that
we're
competing
out
in
the
marketplace,
we're
not
afraid
of
competition,
we
embrace
it
and
so,
but
we
do
need.
There
is
a
bill
introduced
that
we've
been
working
very
hard
on
for
months
back
starting
Last
Summer.
M
If
you
don't
get
together
and
work
on
a
bill,
we
have
no
chance
divided,
and
so
they
agreed
because
they're,
smart
business
people
and
they
said
okay,
and
so
we
worked
on
a
bill
and
you
know
it's
a
start.
It's
got
a
very
high
tax
rate
in
it.
We
believe
it's
got
regulation,
it's
got
licensure,
it's
got
all
the
details
that
we
think
that
state
government
should
have
and
and
we
we
have
come
to
you
we're
being
chastised,
for
we
didn't
do
this
to
start
with.
K
J
I'm
not
very
familiar
with
the
contracts
that
these
small
businesses
have
to
be
agreeable
to.
Can
you
explain
a
little
bit?
Does
it
vary
from
business
to
business?
I'm
just
concerned
that
some
According
to
some
testimony
that
some
small
businesses
will
get
in
and
then
and
not
go
the
way
they
intend
that
there's
just
some
concerns
that
we
would
actually
be
enabling
small
businesses
to
be
taken
advantage
of
so
I'd
like
to
hear
about
contracts.
M
J
No
is
that
standard
practice,
so
there's
no
you're,
there's
no
time
commitment
at
all
to
have
these
in
or
no
agreements
like
that.
Okay,
thank
you
for
that
and
my
second
question
I
I
would
like
to
know
why
they
haven't
why
they
weren't
removed
originally
when
they,
when
they
first
came
in,
why
weren't
they
removed
that
that
question
keeps
coming
up
if
they're
illegal
and
then
why
was
there
no
action
taken
before
they
got
to
the
point
where
they're
well
established
and
money
makers?
Why
didn't
we
address
it
from
the
start?
Thank.
G
You
I
think
that's
a
great
question
and
I'd
answer
that
a
couple
different
ways
I
mean
first
of
all,
Mr
hellringer
mentioned
that
at
least
two
County
attorneys
said.
Don't
you
dare
come
to
our
County
and
he
said
they've
stayed
away
from
those
counties
in
round.
County
Mike
over
here
testified
that
that
was
an
organized
pickup
where
the
sheriff
sees
the
machine
in
an
organized
way.
I,
don't
know
what
that
is.
G
What
I
do
know
is
that
the
owner
of
the
premises
where
the
machine
was
located
is
set
to
be
arraigned
on
April
5th
and
the
Machine
itself
sits
in
an
Evidence
room.
So
there
have
been
prosecutions
out
there.
There
have
been
red
flags
raised
by
some
local
prosecutors,
but
I
do
know
that
leadership
has
been
sent
a
letter
from
the
county
attorney.
Association
saying
give
us
some
guidance.
G
If
a
game
involves
any
element
of
chance-
and
you
didn't
hear
anybody
today
on
the
other
side-
deny
because
they
can't
that
these
gray
games
involve
an
element
of
chance,
that's
gambling
and
unless
it's
been
permitted
as
peer
Mutual,
wagering,
the
lottery
or
charitable
gaming,
all
right,
so
there's
no
Monopoly
here,
there's
there's
three
forms
of
regulated
gaming.
If
it's
not
one
of
those
three
things
it's
illegal
and
to
promote
it
and
Advance,
it
is
a
crime
under
Kentucky
law,
we're
simply
asking
for
the
legislature
to
affirm
that
and
make
it
clear,
vis-a-vis
these
games.
G
K
A
question
I'm,
sorry,
chairman,
do
you
mind?
Can
I
I,
know
you're
sure
on
time
briefly,
thank
you.
I
mean
there's
a
predominant
skill
test.
That
is
just
not
accurate,
it's
in
multiple
States
and
the
wrong
County
thing
again.
That
would
be
if,
if
they're
involved
in
this,
that
would
be
the
equivalent
of
us
knocking
on
their
door
and
saying
hey.
Please
pick
this
up,
so
we
can
have
a
Judicial
opinion
on
it.
So
I
don't
think
they
were
exactly
active
on
this
issue.
They
wanted
to
find
the
truth.
S
Just
no
just
a
half,
just
a
half
first
I
have
I
have
my
first
question
or
I.
Guess
it's
a
comment.
So
I
was
here
in
21
when
HHR
was
illegal
and
we
made
it
legal.
So
this
idea
of
definitions
and
things
that
are
illegal
and
not
we.
We
made
that
decision,
because
the
Supreme
Court
decided
that
it
wasn't
and
we
had
to
go
in
and
legislatively
change
the
definition
to
make
HHR
legal.
S
My
question
is,
and
it
seems
to
mean
that
time
frame
this
push
for
Banning
anything
else
that
is
in
that
same
space
started
coming
from
a
particular
large
conglomerate.
That
is
in
my
district,
and
that's
just
that's
just
a
fact.
I
mean
this
is
just
where
the
push
started.
I
want
to
understand
the
impact
that
this
is
going
to
have
on
small
business,
so
I,
don't
whoever
at
the
table
can
answer
this
for
me,
because
when
we
said
HHR
is
legal
that
is
all
going
to
CDI.
S
K
So
representative
I
can
tell
you
for
us:
on
average,
the
take
home
for
a
small
business
is
25
to
30,
000
annually
and
I
understand,
that's
probably
not
a
lot
to
a
major
company,
but
it's
a
lot
to
these
folks.
I
can
tell
you.
We
were
at
Tom
and
Al's
convenience
and
bait
shop
in
McDaniels
Kentucky.
They
dropped
the
lake
in
McDaniels
there
and
his
peer
doesn't
reach
out
his
doc
doesn't
reach
out
into
the
water
anymore.
He
started
crying
when
we
told
him
this
could
happen
because
his
business
will
close.
S
G
S
K
Opposition
we
had
a
partnership
with
them;
they
they
did
send
us
a
letter.
We
are
proud
of
the
work
we
did
with
the
fop.
We
delivered
them
a
fair
amount
of
Revenue.
We
helped
to
sponsor
a
disaster
relief
truck
when
three
officers
were
shot
last
year.
We
did
not
make
it
public
but
I
guess.
In
light
of
this,
we
will
we
delivered
75
000
25
000
out
of
each
one
of
those
families
directly
through
the
fop
to
get
to
those
families.
A
S
My
again,
my
understanding
of
all
of
this
is
that
this
is
a
space
that
we've
created,
with
whatever
definition
changes
that
we've
had.
We
have
a
player
and
we
have
several
smaller
players.
We
have
carve
outs
here
for
charitable
gaming
for
state
fairs
for
Esports
for
each
certain
retail
establishments,
and
then
we've
got
HHR
on
one
side.
G
G
You
know
the
math
is
very
simple:
if
they're
proposing
up
to
five
machines
at
premises
that
serve
alcohol,
there's
8
000
of
those
times
five
is
forty
thousand.
That's
the
bare
minimum
and
House
Bill
525
even
removes
the
limitation
on
alcohol
sales,
so
they
were
expanding
it
in
the
last
three
four
months
since
they
came
before
the
interim
committee.
Back
in
November
their
bill
now
is
much
broader
than
what
it
was
just
a
few
months
ago.
So
you
know
the
competition
you've
got
the
lottery.
You've
got
charitable
gaming.
You've
got
paramutual
wagering.
M
M
Edmondson
excited
over
there
because
I
support
that
bill.
I
was
the
most
pro-gambling
legislator
there
ever
was
when
I
was
here:
okay,
but
that
bill
is
to
the
total
benefit
of
the
horse
racing
industry.
Okay,
the
horse
racing
commission
administrates,
it
administers
it.
The
the
net
money
goes
to
Pension
funds,
but
the
people
that
running
it
or
the
race
tracks
and
there's
a
lower
tax.
If
you
bet
the
sports
betting
at
the
racetrack.
M
But
I
mean
when
is
an
when
is
enough
enough:
when
is
it
not
a
monopoly?
I
mean
they
want
that
too,
and
again
I'm
all
for
that
industry.
I
love
that
industry
we've
owned
horses,
we've
raced
horses
I've
worked
at
the
tracks,
don't
want
to
do
anything
to
hurt
them
in
any
way,
shape
or
form.
But
this
putting
a
couple
of
bucks
in
a
machine
at
a
gas
station
is
no
threat
to
horse
racing.
They
just
want
to
get
rid
of
somebody
who
might
be
might
be
someday
a
competitor.
Q
Thank
you,
chairman
cook,
so
it's
one
question
for
the
both
parties.
First
of
all,
I
want
to
thank
both
of
both
parties
for
making
us
very
informed
Representatives
when
it
comes
to
making
this
decision.
I
know.
You've
spent
a
lot
of
time
with
us,
so
I
do
want
to
thank
you
for
that,
so
Mr
hellringer
Mr
Bailey,
and
then
that
will
go
to
Mr,
Google,
foil
or
representative
timony.
Q
So
when
I,
when
I
go
down
the
street
in
my
district
and
I'll,
see
a
coffee
shop
or
I'll,
see
you
a
cleaners
or
I'll,
see
an
automotive
dealer,
a
local
mechanic-
and
you
know,
you'll,
see
signs
when
you
buy
from
small
businesses.
You
know
you
support
this
or
when
you
buy
from
small
businesses,
you
support
that
or
when
you
buy
some.
What
exactly?
Q
M
I
think
the
way
it
typically
works
is
people
come
in.
They
tell
us,
we
don't
have
too
many
people
to
come
in
just
to
play
that
it's
it's
a
thing
they
do,
while
they're
in
there
they're
getting
a
lottery
ticket
or
they're,
getting
a
gallon
of
milk
or
paying
for
their
gas
and
they'll.
Take
a
few
minutes
and
and
play
these
like
they
might
buy
a
scratch
off
and
do
that
there
I've
seen
people
doing
that
in
gas
stations
and-
and
they
may
play
a
couple
of
games
and
again
it's
a
game.
K
Q
Q
G
So
when
the
nine
images
stop,
if
there's
two
that
you
could
complete
the
tic-tac-toe
with
you
hit
that
square
with
a
wild
card
and
you
win
oftentimes
when
you
hit
the
play
button
and
the
images
stop,
there's
no
way
to
win
a
tic-tac-toe,
you
lose
now.
That's
chance!
That's
not
skill!
That's
you
hit
the
play
button
and
you
just
lost
so
to
answer
your
question:
what
are
they
buying?
That's,
what
they're
buying
a
chance
to
win.
K
I
need
to
clarify:
that's
not
accurate
and
again,
we've
had
a
lot
of
misstatements
there's
a
secondary
game
that
they
can
play
where
they
win
104
of
their
gameplay
back,
and
that
is
completely
omitted
by
the
other
side
and
don't
take
my
word
for
it.
Take
it
from
every
Court.
That's
actually
looked
at
this
game
and
ruled
it
a
game
of
predominant
chance
or
predominant
skill.
R
This
is
gonna
I
need
some
supposition
for
a
second.
Is
there
any
chance
that,
because
I
would
like
to
see
it
regulated
taxed
and
done
that
if
this
did
not
pass,
and
it
went
one
year
because
I've
been
assured
by
someone
I
respect
greatly,
that
they
would
run
a
bill
to
regulate
it
next
year
and
tax
it
and
do
all
that
would
would
businesses
be
able
to
survive
or
do
without
these
for
the
few
months
that
it
would
take
I.
M
Can
only
speak
for
our
company,
you
pass
a
bill,
a
law
that
bans
them
they're
gone.
Okay,
now
I've
heard
this
undercurrent
of
of
a
clean
slate
and
we're
going
to
ban
you
and
then
then
we're
going
to
bring
you
back
if
you
owned
a
company.
Would
would
you
trust
government
that
that
banned
you
to
now
come.
M
A
J
Callaway
Matt
explain
my
vote.
Please,
yes,
ma'am!
So
I
struggled
with
this
one
because
I
do
see
it
as
a
gray
area.
Otherwise
the
attorneys
wouldn't
have
needed
to
be
contacted,
so
I
do
see
it
as
a
gray
area.
I
disagree
with
that
and
others
did
respect
our
laws
and
stayed
out
because
they
they
saw
it
as
a
great
area.
So
my
vote
today
is
not
because
of
that
I
I.
Just
don't
think
we
would
see
this
again
to
be
able
to
regulate
it
and
I
know
my
constituents
want
it.
T
T
E
U
These
same
corner
stores,
jack
up
the
prices
of
things
for
folks
in
my
community
I
went
the
other
day
for
myself
to
buy
ginger
ale,
a
regular
sized
ginger
ale,
and
it
was
two
dollars
and
eleven
cents,
and
so
I
get
that
there's
small
businesses
that
need
to
thrive,
but
also
some
of
these
small
businesses
are
predatory
to
folks
in
my
community,
so
I
am
going
to
be
a
yes.
I
will
be
continuing
to
have
more
conversations
about
this
and
could
possibly
change
my
vote
on
the
floor.
Thank
you.
F
N
A
S
I'm
going
to
be
a
no
today,
I
again
mentioned
that
I
had
Churchill
in
my
district.
We've
had
this
discussion
before
about
promises
to
come
back
and
regulate,
and
tax
and
I
am
not
interested
in
penalizing
the
small
business
owners
in
my
district
or
the
small
business
owners
in
the
Commonwealth,
especially
those
that
are
sitting
here
today
for
the
sake
of
a
corporation
that
simply
wants
a
larger
share
of
the
pie
so
albino
today.
Thank
you.