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A
And
ask
the
clerk
to
call
the
roll.
Please
we're
going
to
first
call
the
house
committee
and
we'll
call
the
roll
for
the
senate
committee.
D
A
Okay,
now
would
turn
it
over
to
my
co-chairman,
Senator
Smith,
to
call
the
role
for
the
Senate
okay.
A
You
I
certainly
want
to
thank
everyone
for
coming
out
to
the
meeting
our
committee
members
I
know
that
during
this
recess
you
have
a
lot
of
other
things
to
do
before
getting
ready
for
the
regular
session,
but
I
think
we
had
some
issues
that
had
happened
in
Kentucky.
That
I
don't
think
it
ever
happened
before
and
in
a
way
that
affected
our
citizens
and
I
felt
like
that.
A
We
needed
to
have
this
meeting
just
to
get
some
answers
and
and
to
try
to
ensure
that
it,
especially
since
it
was
predicted
that
it
could
happen,
and
it's
predicted
that
it
might
in
the
future
happen
again,
and
we
certainly
don't
want
it
to
be
the
norm,
and
so
I
wanted
to
have
this
committee
meeting
before
I
start
though
I
would
like
to
introduce.
We
have
several
new
members
that
are
new
to
the
committee
on
the
house
and
the
Senate
side
I'd
like
to
inter
introduce
those
we
have
representative
Jerry
Bowman.
A
We
have
representative
Lindsey
Burke,
representative
Beverly,
Chester
Burton,
representative
Al,
Gentry,
representative
Daniel,
grossberg,
representative
Bobby,
McCool,
representative
Tom,
Smith
and
representative
Wade
Williams
did
I
miss
any
house.
Members
that
are
new
to
the
committee.
I
certainly
want
to
welcome
you
and
Senator
Smith.
Would
you
like
to
welcome
some
of
the
new
or
announce
the
new
members
of
the
Senate?
A
G
I
think
we
of
course,
we're
proud
of
all
of
our
our
members,
but
we're
going
to
give
a
special
shout
out
to
Senator
Williams
I
was
looking
for
him
here,
Senator
William
there
you
are
welcome
to
our
our
committee.
It
looks
like
you're
going
to
get
a
to
get
baptized
by
fire,
as
we
say
at
home
to
get
to
welcome
us
today.
So
welcome
to
our
committee.
A
Okay,
thank
you,
and
we
have
some
people
in
the
audience
that
I
would
like
to
recognize
I'm
pleased
to
see
that
Miss
Michelle
Bloodworth
is
in
the
audience
today
and
she's
the
president
and
CEO
of
America's
power.
Her
organization
represents
coal-fired
electricity
and
Supply
chains
that
support
the
coal
Fleet
Americans
power
has
worked
to
educate
operators,
public
utility,
Commissioners,
Federal
regulators
and
agencies
and
Congress
that
the
current
pace
of
the
grid
transition
is
a
threat
to
grid
reliability.
I'm
also
glad
to
have
a
couple
of
my
County
judges.
A
Today
we
have
from
Union
County,
Judge,
Adam,
Onan
and
then
also
from
Webster
County.
We
have
judge
Steve
Henry,
so
we're
certainly
glad
that
they
were
coming
over
today
and
have
we
have
talked
and
the
events
that
happened
affected
them
and
their
constituents
as
well,
and
so
we
know
that
they're
very
interested
in
getting
some
answers,
as
we
all
are
Senator
Smith.
Do
you
have
a
comment
or
anything
that
you'd
like
to
make
just.
G
Briefly
to
let
everyone
know,
we
appreciate
you
taking
out
time
today
out
of
your
schedule
to
be
here.
We
think
it's
certainly
a
worthy
topic
that
a
lot
of
people
are
concerned
about,
including
myself.
So
we
appreciate
your
engagement.
G
We
appreciate
each
of
the
individuals
they'll
be
coming
forward
today
to
to
speak
and
testify
on
this
issue
in
front
of
us
and
look
forward
to
coming
out
of
this
meeting
today
with
a
pretty
good
resolution
and
a
pathway
forward
to
give
the
citizens
of
the
Commonwealth
some
comfort
in
knowing
that
we
have
put
measures
in
place
to
address
this
from
happening
to
them
again.
A
Okay,
thank
you.
As
I
said
earlier,
we
had
heard
last
year
testimony
from
the
person
that
was
over
the
my
soul.
A
Of
course,
Kentucky
has
served
by
pjm
and
also
Michael
ISO
as
far
as
grid
operators
and-
and
we
were
told
then
that
they
were
expecting
some
blackouts
in
the
Miso
area,
didn't
think
necessarily
that
it
would
be
Kentucky,
but
it
was
Kentucky
and
for
someone
who's
been
here
starting
my
29th
year
when
I
look
back
when
I
first
came
here
about
93
percent
of
Kentucky's
power,
electricity
was
generated
from
coal
were
probably
pretty
close
now
to
70
percent,
maybe
just
a
little
under
70
percent.
A
At
that
time
we
had
probably
the
second
lowest
utility
rates
in
the
in
the
nation.
Certainly
we
were
the
probably
the
lowest
east
of
the
Mississippi
River
today.
That
is
not
necessarily
the
case.
A
We
still
are
competitive,
probably
in
the
top
10,
but
the
rates
have
risen
quite
a
bit,
and
so
the
changes
that
have
happened
have
mostly
happened,
not
because
of
decisions
that
we
made
here
in
the
Kentucky
Journal
assembly,
but
were
that
are
coming
from
Washington
D.C,
and
we
feel
that
that
when
you
have
issues
that
have
been
predicted
as
far
as
brownouts
blackouts
or
whatever,
and
it's
predicted
that
those
may
continue
into
the
future
may
possibly
become
the
norm,
then
we
we
have
to
look
and
say,
okay,
what
do
we
need
to
change?
A
What
what
things
do
we
need
to
look
at?
If
what
can
the
general
assembly
do
to
protect
the
citizens
of
Kentucky
and
because
you
know
the
it's
one
thing
for
us
to
have
a
utility
that
has
to
cut
some
people
off
for
a
very
short
period
of
time
in
order
to
manage
the
grid
so
that
we
don't
lose
the
entire
grid?
A
But
if
we
actually
do
lose
at
some
point,
the
entire
grid,
as
it
happened
in
Texas,
were
you
know,
lots
of
people
died
as
a
result
of
that,
and
we
certainly
want
to
make
sure
that
nothing
like
that
happens
in
Kentucky.
If
it's
going
to,
if
it's
being
it
fits
within
our
power
to
to
do
something
about
it.
So
we're
going
to
start
today's
meeting
with
a
presentation
from.
C
Good
afternoon
and
thank
you
for
for
having
us
today-
I'm
I
am
Buzz
Backstrom
and
Jeff
sanderson's
here
as
well.
I
want
to
start
by
giving
you
all
a
an
overview
of
our
company.
Boardwalk
pipelines
is
a
storage
and
transportation
company
and
we
we
provide
those
Services
customers
procure
gas
and
put
it
in
our
pipelines
and
we
move
it
to
markets.
Texas
Gas
transmission,
Corporation
is,
is
the
company
that
we'll
be
talking
about
today.
That
is
the
the
pipeline
that
runs
through
Kentucky
that
serves
markets
and
and
we've
served
many
we've
served.
C
We've
been
in
this
market
since
the
the
late
1940s,
our
company
was
formed
in
the
in
the
1940s,
and
it
was
a
by
merger
between
Kentucky,
Natural,
Gas
and
and
Memphis
natural
gas.
So
we
we've
been
in
the
area
for
a
long
time.
We
have
a
large
presence
in
Owensboro.
We
have
200
employees
Boys
in
Owensboro
in
our
headquarters
there,
and
we
have
a
300
employees
in
our
in
our
Owensboro
office.
We're
going
to
talk
today
about
some
of
the
events
that
took
place:
December
23rd
through
the
25th
on
our
system.
C
But
again
we
have
been
providing
reliable
service
through
to
to
in-use
markets
in
Kentucky
for
for
many
decades,
but
this
is
a
map
of
our
system.
Again,
this
is
the
Texas
Gas
system
and
we
have
6
000
miles
of
pipeline
and
1500
of
that
is
in
Kentucky.
We
also
have
a
a
storage
complex,
mostly
located
in
Kentucky,
an
underground
storage
facility
that
we'll
talk
a
little
about
a
little
later.
Our
supply
comes
from
different
directions
on
our
pipe.
C
We
are
a
bi-directional
pipeline,
meaning
that
we
can
flow
from
south
to
North
or
North
to
South.
We
we,
our
supply,
comes
from
from
as
far
south
as
the
Gulf
Coast.
We
are
connected
to
all
of
the
Mid-Continent
shell
or
Mid-Continent
basins,
so
we
have
Supply
coming
in
from
the
south.
We
have
Supply
coming
in
our
system
from
the
middle,
and
then
we
also
have
Supply
coming
in
from
the
very
north
end
of
our
system
at
Lebanon
Ohio,
and
that
that
Supply
comes
from
the
Utica
and
Marcellus
basins.
C
C
We
provide
a
myriad
of
services
to
our
customers
and
and
we'll
talk
a
little
bit
about
that
in
a
minute.
I
do
want
to
talk
about
who
our
end
users
are.
We
have
really
three
types
of
end
users
on
Texas
Gas,
we
obviously
local
distribution
companies,
the
LG
E's
of
the
world,
the
the
atmoses
of
the
world,
many
Municipal
Utilities,
19
ldc's
in
Kentucky.
C
We
also
serve
19
power
plants,
directly,
seven
of
which
are
in
Kentucky
and
four
of
which
are
are
to
to
companies
that
are
represented
here
today,
at
LG,
dku
and
and
TVA,
and
then
the
third
segment
of
our
end
user
markets
are
our
industrial
customers.
Again
we
have
a
long
history
of
of
providing
reliable
service
to
those
markets.
Ldc's
again
goes
back
to
the
to
the
1940s
1950s,
the
Trimble
County
power
plant
that
that
KU
has
we've
been
serving
that
load
for
20
years.
C
There
are
really
two
types
of
services
that
pipelines
provide,
firm
and
interruptible.
A
firm
service
is
where
a
customer
pays
us
a
fixed
fee
to
reserve
capacity
in
our
Pipeline,
and
then
they
call
on
it
when
they
need
it.
There
are
also
interruptible
customers,
that's
by
Nature.
C
It
is
an
interruptible
service,
it's
available
when
when
capacity
is
underutilized
or
unsubscribed,
but
firm
customers
have
priority
over
interruptible
service
and
then
the
third
type
of
service,
which
is
a
premium
service
on
our
system,
is
a
combination
of
gas,
transportation
and
storage,
whereas
a
customer
doesn't
have
to
buy
every
molecule
they're
going
to
need.
For
that
day.
C
There
is
a
storage
complex
again,
we'll
talk
just
a
minute
about
where
that
is,
but
they
can
draw
gas
out
of
our
storage
complex
when
they
need
it
on
on
certain
days,
lgeku
and
TVA
both
subscribe
to
those
Services,
those
no
notice
Services.
We
consider
it
a
premium
service
and
a
service
really
designed
not
only
for
local
utility
companies
but
also
power
plants
as
well.
C
I
mentioned
our
facilities
in
Kentucky
highlighted
here.
Are
one
you'll
see
one
star
that
slaughters
Kentucky?
That
is
a
very
critical
compressor
station
that
we
have
on
our
system
that
Jeff
will
be
speaking
to
momentarily.
We
talked
about
our
storage
complex.
It's
we
we
have.
The
majority
of
our
storage
is
in
Kentucky.
We
have
a
Dixie
field
in
Henderson
County.
Our
Hansen
field
is
in
Hopkins
County
and
our
largest
complex
is
our
Midland
storage
complex
in
Muhlenberg
County.
We
also
have
denoted
here
Cane,
Run
and
Trimble
power
plants.
C
Those
are
the
LG
KU
plants
that
we
serve
and
that
that
will
will
be
focusing
on
in
our
discussion
today
and
with
that
I'm,
going
to
turn
it
over
to
Jeff
Sanderson
to
talk
about
the
events
of
of
the
winter
storm
and
then
some
of
the
measures
we're
taking
going
forward.
Yes,.
D
Good
afternoon
and
sorry
good
afternoon
and
I
will
be
talking
mainly
about
this,
the
issue
we
had
at
the
Slaughter's
compressor
station,
but
first
I
did
want
to
show
this
slide,
and
this
really
shows
the
force
of
the
storm
that
came
in
and
it
was
mentioned.
It
was
a
predicted
storm.
It
was
something
that
we
had
prepared
for
and
I'll
go
through
that
in
just
a
few
moments,
but
the
big
thing
was,
you
know
we
saw
about
a
50
degree.
D
D
You
can
see
this
storm
that
this
on
the
graph
shows
in
the
blue
was
the
storm
Elliott
that
we
had
back
in
December
and
the
the
the
Orange
shows
the
2014
teen
event,
and
then
the
purple
shows
the
winter
storm
Yuri
that
was
mentioned
earlier
today,
so
I
would
say
that
I've
been
in
the
business
for
42
years
with
the
natural
gas
transmission
I
worked
in
the
operations
of
it.
D
I've
worked
through
the
the
coldest
days,
the
coldest
nights,
the
hottest
days
and
the
hottest
nights,
and
this
was
the
most
forceful
that
came
in
in
one
afternoon
that
we
had
seen
we.
You
know
we
did
a
lot
of
Preparatory
work,
getting
ready
for
it,
and
you
know
our
facilities.
We
did
several
days
before
trying
to
get
ready
for
this
storm,
but
in
my
42
years
I
had
more
disruption
to
me.
D
You
know
we
worked
through
the
nights,
making
sure
that
our
customers
were
held
up
with
pressure
as
well
as
possible,
but
we
did
have
a
blip
with
a
pressure
issue
and
I
will
talk
a
little
bit
about
it.
These
temperatures
here
I
will
mention
these
are
from
our
Hardinsburg
compressor
station,
which
is
in
Breckenridge
County.
This
is
just
a
few
miles
from
the
Slaughter's
compressor
station
that
I'll
be
talking
about
so
next
slide.
Please
buzz
so
just
just
a
few
things.
D
So
you
know
we
typically
from
when
a
storm
comes
in
there's
several
things
that
we
do.
One
thing
that
that's
not
mentioned
on
here:
we
always
get
together
with
our
customers
before
the
winter
season
comes
in.
You
know
the
commercial
group,
the
operations
group
we
get
together
talk
about
how
we
can
work
together,
be
reliable,
any
kind
of
thing,
any
kind
of
Maintenance
that
we
might
have.
D
We
discuss
what
the
what
the
winter
looks
like,
but
before
this
storm
and
before
any
storm
that
comes
in,
we
do
take
some
special
steps
to
make
sure
that
we're
winterizing
our
equipment-
and
this
means
you
know-
we're
adding
extra
tarps,
we're
adding
heat
tape,
heat
Trace,
we're
adding
heat
bulbs,
draining
our
low
Point
drains
and
actually
starting
our
equipment
that
might
be
used
during
the
the
time
of
the
high
demand.
So
another
thing
we
do
is
make
sure
that
we
pressurize
the
system
to
the
max
I
mean
we've
got.
D
You
know,
there's
a
lot
of
gas
on
our
system.
Bus
pointed
out
the
storage
that
we
have.
So
we
have
a
lot
of
access
to
gas.
D
The
gas
was
there,
the
gas
was
there,
the
equipment
was
there,
so
we
got
to
make
sure
we
get
it
to
the
right
spots
and,
as
Buzz
mentioned,
we're
a
transportation
companies,
so
we're
hauling
it
and
if
the,
if
it's
an
issue
with
the
truck
it's
an
issue
with
getting
the
gas
there,
so
we
want
to
make
sure
our
equipment's
ready
to
go,
and
then
we
also
mention
here
that
we
do
man
our
critical
compressor
stations
when
a
storm
like
this
is
coming
in.
D
So
you
know
we
felt
like
we
were
ready
for
it.
We
had
things
prepared,
but
the
afternoon
when
it
started
falling
out,
we
did
all
the
pressure
that
we
had
built
up.
There
was
a
need,
so,
on
the
morning
of
December
23rd,
our
gas
control
center
called
and
said.
We
need
to
get
some
more
horsepower
on
our
Slaughter's
compressor
station,
so
we
immediately
started
trying
to
put
the
horsepower
on
and
we
ran
into
icing
situations,
not
with
our
pipeline,
not
with
our
horsepower,
but
within
some
of
our
small
equipment.
D
There
was
one
control
valve
an
eight
inch
control
valve
that
has
to
get
a
permissive
start
to
to
be
able
to
start
this
unit,
and
there
was
ice
in
the
and
the
tubing
lines
and
there
was
Ice.
That
was
also
in
our
controller
that
operated
the
valve.
So
we
worked
through
that
day.
We
worked
into
the
night
trying
to
get
this
thought
out.
We
would
thaw
one
thing
after
the
other
and
it
was.
D
Finally,
we
had
a
little
bit
of
damage
to
the
controls
of
this
particular
valve
so
and,
like
I
said
it
wasn't
the
turbine,
it
wasn't
the
the
pipeline.
It
was
this
control
equipment
that
we
had
so
into
the
night.
That
night
on
the
on
it'd
be
the
early
morning
24th
we
actually
were
able
to
get
horsepower
on
and
start
our
deliveries
back
in
the
next.
So
some
steps
that
we've
taken
there's
some
kind
of
immediate
steps,
because
you
know
we
could
have
a
storm
like
this.
Come
in.
D
You
know
a
few
weeks
from
now,
so
the
winter's
not
over,
we
did
have
you
know
some
cold
weather
come
in
this
week.
You
know
some
of
our
locations.
You
know
the
Tennessee
Mississippi
and
even
up
in
Kentucky,
as
our
pipeline
goes
all
the
way
up
to
Lebanon.
You
know
we
saw
some
teens
and
we
have
seen
some
ice
on
much
of
our
system
this
week.
It
was
not
not
a
blip
on
our
system,
but
there's
some
media
immediate
steps
that
we
are
taking.
D
We're
making
sure
that
a
valve
like
this,
this
particular
critical
valve
has
more
than
just
heat,
trace
and
tarps.
We're
getting
shelters
spec
for
this.
That
would
typically
be
for
shelters
that
would
be
in
the
North
or
Northeast
temperatures
where
they're
seeing
below
zero
routinely.
So
we're
going
to
equip
our
stations.
D
We've
done
a
survey
from
top
to
bottom,
the
stations
that
we
need
to
add
some
a
critical
protection
for
this
one
or
two
days
out
of
five
years
years
and
that's
kind
of
what
we
looked
at
with
the
with
the
force
of
this
storm.
This
was
such
an
unusual
event
we're
looking
like
what
can
we
put
in
place
that
would
be
above
and
beyond
so
we're
working
to
do
that,
we're
fabricating
and
installing
these
structures
and
making
sure
that
we're
ready
in
case
another
event
comes
in
like
this,
but
I
would
mention
you
know.
D
Buzz
talked
about
reliability
and
reliability
is
something
that
is
super
super
important
to
us,
because
the
customers
want
the
gas
when
they
need
the
gas
and
we
we
hang
our
hat
on
it
and
I
mean
it's
something
that
we
take
very
seriously
and
if
there's
something
like
this,
that
pops
up,
you
know
we
don't
want
to
be
reactionary.
We
want
to
be
ahead
of
it.
So
we
learned
from
this
event.
Like
I
said
you
know,
events
in
the
past,
we
didn't
have
this
type
of
freezing
in
our
control
valves.
Was
it
because
of
the
windshield?
D
Was
it
because
of
precipitation?
Was
it
a
combination
of
all
of
it?
The
fact
that
it
came
in
in
one
afternoon-
and
we
saw
such
drops-
that's
what
it
all
points
to
in
our
system.
Typically,
all
of
our
customers
talk
about
the
reliability
that
we
have
from
top
to
bottom,
from
from
South
Texas
to
Lebanon
Ohio
talk
about
the
reliability
we
have
so
it's
something
we
take
very
serious
and
this
is
and
when
you
have
one
eight
inch
control
valve
that
impacts
KU.
D
With
the
pressure
issue
like
that,
it
was
disappointing
to
us
and
I
would
say
it
was
not
only
disappointing,
but
it
was
a
surprise
to
us
because
we
felt
like
we
had
the
steps
in
place.
The
measures
in
place
to
do
it,
but
it
did
show
us
a
a
weak
spot
and
we're
taking
every
effort
to
address
that
going
forward.
A
Let
me
there's
I,
have
a
couple
questions
and
let
me
say
first
before
we
start
that
the
reason
for
us
to
have
this
committee
here
really
doing
the
same
things
you're
already
doing
you're
already
trying
to
find
out.
You
know
what
happened
and
what
can
we
do
to
prevent
it?
And
we
appreciate
that
and
certainly
we
appreciate
all
of
the
folks
out
there
that
are
our
utility
providers.
A
You
have
some
really
great
employees
that
are
out
in
whether
that
most
of
us
certainly
wouldn't
want
to
be
out
in,
and
so
you
know,
the
purpose
of
hearing
is
not
to
you
know,
point
out
anybody
or
whatever
we're
just
trying
to
find
some
answers
and-
and
you
know,
I
know
that
you're
already
working
on
those
and-
and
we
appreciate
that.
But
let
me
ask
you
a
a
question.
A
You
know
I,
understand
that
on
your
system,
probably
the
only
people
that
would
actually
pay
extra
to
be
a
premium
customer
would
probably
be
electric
utility
generators.
Is
that
correct.
C
A
Okay,
so
yeah
I
see
where
they
would
probably
do
that
too.
Someone
like
an
Atmos
or
a
municipal
or
whatever,
whatever
and
I
guess
in
some
points
they
would
probably
even
maybe
purchase
some
power
to
be
put
into
storage
in
the
summer
months
or
whatever,
when
it's
normally
available.
I
would
guess
that's.
A
I
think
it's
something
that
you
know.
We
definitely
need
to
take
advantage
of.
When
we
have
the
storage
there
there
I
guess
what
I'm
wondering
is
you
mentioned
was:
was
it
only
this
one
power
plant
that
was
hooked
up
to
this
particular
line
that
I.
D
May
have
missed
that
now:
we've
we've
actually
and
and
Buzz
we've
talked
about
we've
got.
We've
actually
got
multiple
lines
that
go
through
Kentucky
from
26
inch
to
36
inch.
So
there's
multiple
lines
going
through
and
but
I
don't
think
you
mentioned
about
the
number
of
plants
that
we
have
actually
on
our
system,
plus
Kentucky
yeah.
C
A
A
Should
we
look
at
and
I
I
know
that
it's
very
difficult
to
get
pipelines
built
because
you
know
we
have
a
federal
government
that
doesn't
seem
to
like
pipelines,
even
though
I
think
that
it's
probably
the
probably
the
safest,
cheapest
way
to
transport,
natural
gas
and
other
petroleum
products.
But.
D
And
and
I'll
start
with
it,
but
you
may
want
to
jump
in,
but
as
mentioned
this,
this
this
particular
incident
that
happened
I
mean
the
gas
was
there
I
mean
there
was
you
know
with
our
storage,
particularly
where
our
storage
is
located.
It
works
great
for
this
particular
area,
because
we
have
you
know
a
vast
amount
of
gas
underground
stored,
ready
to
go
and
we
and
we
can
get
it.
It
comes
off
of
a
lateral
comes
over
to
our
Mainline
system.
D
There,
it
Slaughters,
which
pushes
it
back
up
this
way,
so
the
gas
was
there.
The
gas
was
there
waiting
to
be
hauled,
I
mean
it
was
a
big
pile
of
gas
sitting
there
and
it
was.
We
had
the
horsepower
to
do
it.
It
was
just
in
this
particular
event:
I
mean
we
and
I
guess.
Your
question
is:
did
you
over
subscribe?
This?
Did
you
oversell
this?
D
You
know
a
boot
ruptured
on
the
on
the
regulator,
so
we
had
to
repair
all
of
that,
but
once
we
got
that
complete
and
we
got
the
unit
back
on,
then
we
were
able
to
start
hauling
the
gas
out
of
storage
and
bringing
it
back
to
the
North
in
our
system
and
in
a
multiple
pipeline
set
up.
C
We,
when
a
new
potential
new
facility
presents
itself,
we
go
through
a
a
a
detailed
planning
stage
to
look
at
our
facilities
and
then
at
facilities
that
are
needed
to
provide
that
that
reliable
service
to
that
plant,
like
we
do
the
others,
and
so
it's
a
it's
a
we
don't
do
it
speculatively.
We
we
look
at
a
specific
project
and
we
will
Design
our
facilities
to
to
facilitate
that
service.
A
Is
there
anyone
else?
That's
looking
at
that
to
determine
you
know.
Maybe
we,
you
know
a
power
plant
will
be
a
Public,
Service
Commission
or
someone
else
that
says
you
know
that
shouldn't
be
built
because
you
probably
can't
get
the
firm
Supply
that
you
is
necessary
to
to,
especially
if
you're,
replacing
some
other
unit,
whether
it
be
a
coal
plant
or
something
else
that
was
definitely
there
to
you,
know
Supply
the
need
as
anyone
else
or
is
that
just
a
decision
that's
made
pretty
much
by
your
company
from.
C
Our
perspective,
we
have
to
get
a
certificate
of
public
need
from
the
Federal
Energy
Regulatory
Commission
and
then
on
a
state
level.
A
utility
would
would
certainly
go
through
the
Public
Service
Commission
I'll.
Let
them
speak
to
that,
but
yeah
yeah
we
do
have
to
get
a
certificate
of
public
need.
Okay,.
F
You
Mr
chairman
for
recognizing
me
and
thank
you,
gentlemen,
for
coming
out
this
afternoon
to
talk
with
us.
One
thing
I'd
just
like
to
ask
if
you
could
maybe
educate
me
a
little
bit
on
the
process,
but
it
looks
a
lot
similar
to
the
situation
in
Houston,
not
too
many
years
ago,
where
we
had,
they
had
massive
blackouts
and
it
was
cut.
You
know:
cold
weather
related
had
a
unique
set
of
weather
related
issues
which
I
think
you
know
we
can
see
kind
of
similarities
with
this
one.
F
Could
you
walk
me
through
and
I'm,
not
saying
I
believe
that
that
natural
gas,
you
know,
does
a
good
job
of
Distributing.
You
know
everything,
but
what
my
question
is
I
guess
is:
are
there
unique
weaknesses
associated
with
natural
gas,
especially
in
the
cold
weather,
I,
understand
it
has
moisture
in
it
could
get
in
valves
whatever
it
may
be?
Could
you
you
kind
of
help
me
with
that
and
understand
that
yeah.
D
Weakness,
yeah
and
I,
wouldn't
call
it
a
weakness
and
I'll
go
back
to
you
know
the
winter
storm
Yuri
that
we
had
through
Texas
and
I
was
I
was
down
there,
part
of
that
our
system
performed
very,
very
well.
We
had
we
had
no
equipment
issues,
we
had
no
restrictions
on
our
part,
you
know
to
get
into
it
a
little
deeper.
D
You
know
there
were
some
renewable
issues
that
came
up
some
renewable
energy
that
came
up
issues,
but
as
far
as
our
our
transportation
service,
we
were,
our
equipment
was
fully
up
up
to
where
it
should
have
been.
Our
deliveries
were
fully
where
they
should
have
been.
To
your
point
about
the
the
moisture.
You
know
that
that
is
a
spot,
that
you
have
to
take
special
precautions,
because
you
know
one
valve
can
stop.
You
know
pressure
and
I
will
say
on
the
this
event
that
we're
talking
about
was
KU
it.
D
It
wasn't
like
you
know,
we
did
have
pressure,
but
not
enough
pressure
to
keep
them
fully
up
to
where
they
needed
to
be.
So
that
was
a
lack
of
pressure,
but
you
know
I
would
say
that
natural
gas,
our
turbines
are
are
set
to
run.
Our
reciprocating
compressors
are
set
to
run
well
below
zero
they're
designed
for
that
type
of
operation.
These
particular
units
that
we
have
they've
got
them
all
across
the
United
States
all
across
Alaska
Canada.
D
These
units
are
very
reliable,
but
when
you
have
a
piece
of
auxiliary
equipment
like
this,
that
was
the
surprise,
and
so
you've
got
to
not
only
winterize
your
equipment.
You've
got
to
winterize
some
of
the
auxiliary
equipment
like
a
control
valve,
so
I
would
say
and,
like
I
said,
I've
been
in
it
42
years.
H
D
G
Yeah
I'll
keep
it
I'll,
keep
it
brief,
but
you
know:
I
was
looking
at
a
a
quote
by
Michael
Weber
who's
with
Texas
University
of
Texas
in
Austin,
and
he
had
made
a
interview
at
presented,
an
interview
with
Bloomberg,
and
he
said
through
the
variability
of
wind
and
solar,
are
well
known
and
discussed
a
lot.
These
freezes
also
show
the
flimsiness
of
the
gas
system
in
reference
to
the
Energy
Systems,
Across,
America
and
I
think
that
we
are
seeing
a
gap
here.
G
There's
there's
a
lot
of
failure,
that's
happening
out
there
and
we
are
leaning
farther
and
farther
out
on
this
Branch
and
we're
seeing
that
that
some
of
these
Technologies
are
not
ready
for
us
to
do
that
now.
Some
are,
and
a
lot
of
this
can
be
infrastructure
issues
that
we
need
to
have
more
pipelines.
G
That
we
need
to
Kentucky
is
a
very
wealthy
State
when
it
comes
to
natural
resources,
and
it
is
not
in
our
best
interest
to
March
down
this
failed
federal
policy
of
over
regulation
and
blocking
pipelines
and
and
putting
us
into
a
situation
where
it
is
now
the
normal
operating
procedure
for
utilities
to
have
rotating
blackouts
or
brownouts.
They
have
to
do
this
now,
just
think
about
this
in
the
United
States
of
America,
and
this
time
we're
we're
all
of
us
up
here.
G
Our
entire
lives
for
connections
with
our
families
and
work
and
everything
are
all
electronic
and
depend
on
Power,
and
we
have
found
ourselves
power
poor,
where
we
are
telling
companies
in
Kentucky
that
you're
going
to
be
without
power.
But
the
good
news
is
we'll.
Let
you
tell
us
when
now
how
many
Amazons
and
how
many
big
companies
are
going
to
come
running
here
when
we
don't
have
power,
and
it
should
be
a
shock
to
nobody
if
you've
got
an
industrial
park
or
you
or
a
community.
G
We
are
literally
shooting
ourselves
in
a
head
when
I
can
throw
a
rock
from
anywhere
from
my
house
in
Hazard
and
hit
coal,
oil
or
gas,
or
some
sort
of
a
natural
resource
that
can
be
made
available
for
us
to
stop
this
nonsense.
We
need
to
double
down
on
our
industry.
I
appreciate
what
you
do.
I
mean
it
is
a
tremendous
investment
to
go
out
there
and
be
on
the
ground
in
Boots
and
do
hard
work.
G
It's
not
easy
and
you
you
spend
many
afternoons
standing
on
tired
legs
still
working,
and
we
appreciate
that
we
need
to
have
the
backbone
to
back
you
and
stand
up
to
the
the
federal
over
regulation
and
help
you
get
the
pipelines
that
you
need
to
have
put
into
place
so
that
if
one
regulator
fails,
you
have
four
more
waiting.
So
we
don't
have
death
on
the
end
that
line
or
somebody
freezing
to
death
in
the
household
with
somebody,
that's
disabled
and
two
or
three
children
that
are
sick.
G
We
can
do
better
than
that,
but
I
saw
you
know
some
of
the
comments
here
that
that
are
very
concerning
to
me,
but
you
had
said
about
I.
Think
Jeff
that
you
have
it.
You
had
the
product,
you
just
have
to
get
it
to
the
right
spot
right
and
so
to
me.
G
That's
an
infrastructure
issue,
that's
a
logistic
problem
that
we
can
help
with
and
and
when
I
say,
help
I'm
talking
about
helping
get
the
the
permitting
and
all
the
tape
out
of
the
way
that
causes
a
project
that
could
be
done
in
a
hundred
to
two
or
three
hundred
days
and
a
reasonable
price
to
turning
into
a
15-year
14
million
dollar
boondoggle.
That's
no
longer
in
anybody's
best
interest
to
do
it
and
there's
no
way
to
absorb
that
cost
back
in
there.
G
That's
not
going
to
make
everybody
in
this
room,
pay
more
for
something
that
should
be
reliable
and
affordable,
and
so
I
think
that
we
really
need
to
think
about
what
Kentucky
can
bring
to
the
table.
This
is
Texas
New,
Jersey,
Indiana,
there's
you
can
pick
a
state
and
I
will
show
your
problem
with
a
system
that
is
failing
because
they're
chasing
a
federal
policy
by
mandate,
that's
failing
them,
so
I
think
what
I
see
here
and
there'll
be
a
lot
more
testimony.
G
D
You
one
comment
on
that.
So
I
would
say
you
know
when
we
talk
about
Texas
I,
think
it
all
goes
back
to
to
where
the
the
end
user
nominates
their
gas
from.
So
you
know
what
source
are
they
getting
it
from
and
in
the
Kentucky
issue
you
know,
I
mean
the
Texas
issue.
You
know,
there's
multiple
places
you
can
get
gas
just
like
on
our
system.
We've
got
we're
tied
to
production.
You
know
pretty
much
all
over
the
United
States.
D
We
can
get
gas
from
a
lot
of
different
sources,
but
where
does
the
customer
buy
their
gas
form
for
us
to
transport
it?
So
that's,
that's
a
key
part
of
it,
but
I
think
the
the
Super
Key
part
of
it
here.
What
we're
talking
about
is
the
storage
because
out
here
again,
you're
not
you're
not
held
by
production.
A
lot
of
what
Texas
problems
was:
was
production
oriented,
but
if
it's
in
storage
you
know
it's
they're
earmarked
now
going
back
you
we
had
it
in
storage,
but
you
know.
D
Was
it
one
valve
one
device
to
kept?
You?
Was
it
a
flat
tire
on
that
particular
truck
that
kept
it
from
making
that
delivery
that
day,
that's
kind
of
what
we're
looking
at?
So
you
know
you
just
got
to
make
sure
you
got
new
tires
on.
You've
got
the
very
best
tires
on
because
you're
going
to
be
transporting,
but
you
make
a
really
good
point
about
the
the
fact
that
you
know
where
you
Source
your
gas
from.
E
G
Mr
chairman
I
just
want
to
follow
up
as
a
pilot,
one
of
the
things
that
I
always
keep
in
the
back
of
my
mind
when
I'm
flying
is
what's
called
two
mistakes.
High
I
want
to
be
high
enough
that
I
can
make
two
mistakes
and
still
will
come
out
of
it
same
thing
with
this
system.
G
Here
we
need
to
be
thinking
about
storage
and
the
other
aspects
to
go
into
getting
this
product
to
turn
the
electricity
to
the
gasifier,
get
it
going
and
that
can
be
coupled
with
having
coal
when
things
already
on
site,
to
making
sure
that
those
stockpiles
are
available.
Where,
if
something
fails,
we
are
two
mistakes:
high
that
there
will
not
be
somebody
at
the
end
of
that
line
and
a
family.
You
know
huddled
together
for
some
sort
of
an
outdoor.
G
The
heating
buddy
in
their
house,
with
just
a
terrible
situation
to
be
in
I
mean
I
in
my
area,
every
single
winter.
As
soon
as
the
first
coal
snap
happens
down
in
Eastern
Kentucky,
some
house
trailer
burns
up
with
some
woman.
Who's
worked
two
jobs
and
three
or
four
children
there,
and
it
happens
every
single
year
of
my
life
and
when
we
get
down
there's
some
old,
kerosene,
heater
or
some
substandard,
something
they
put
in
an
old
house.
I
G
A
Thank
you,
gentlemen.
Thank
you
so
much
for
being
here
and
taking
the
time
to
to
testify
today.
Next
we're
going
to
have
the
presentation
about
the
planned
electric
service
outages
resulting
in
the
December,
2022
Winter's
weather,
and
it's
going
to
be
TBA
and
I.
Think
Aaron
Melinda
senior
vice
president
and
Dan
Pratt
I
think.
J
So
the
Tennessee
Valley
Authority
was
established
in
1933
with
the
primary
mission
of
improving
standards
of
living
for
the
folks
that
live
in
the
valley.
We
serve
a
seven
State
Region
14
local
power
companies
right
here
in
the
great
Commonwealth
of
Kentucky.
So
we
take
that
mission
that
was
established
in
33
very
seriously
today
as
well.
J
We
have
three
components
of
that
mission:
energy,
low-cost,
reliable
energy
to
our
constituents
environment.
We
manage
a
large
river
system
and
about
290
000
acres
of
land
and
public
property
and
economic
development,
probably
the
real
Mission,
which
is
creating
jobs
and
capital
investment
in
the
areas
that
we
live
through
those
three
E's
we
have
established
a
fleet,
so
our
Fleet
is
for.
First
we
we
operate
the
third
largest
nuclear
Fleet
in
the
nation.
J
J
So
foundational
to
our
mission
are
those
underlying
assets
and
imperative.
To
our
mission.
Is
economic
development
and
enticing
Industries
into
the
valley
that
stimulate
jobs
and
capital
investment,
so
I'm
here
today
to
talk
about
winter
storm,
Elliott
I'm,
going
to
talk
about
the
events
as
they
occurred,
the
facts
as
we
know
them,
and
the
actions
that
we've
taken
to
ensure
that
this
type
of
event
does
not
occur
again.
J
J
J
So
we,
through
the
years,
have
established
a
practice
of
25
percent
of
reserves
as
we
go
into
events
to
mitigate
those
risks,
so
I'm
going
to
talk
through
each
of
those
first
weather.
What
you
can
see
here
on
the
map
is
the
morning
of
the
23rd.
This
is
the
weather
system
that
sat
across
the
Eastern
United
States.
If
you
can
see
them,
the
numbers
give
you
an
indication
of
deviation
from
normal.
J
So
you
can
see
in
the
valley
region,
in
particular
in
the
Kentucky
Region,
about
38
degrees,
from
what
we
would
expect
normal
to
be
in
this
December
time
frame
important
here
we
did
not
set
any
record
low
temperatures,
so
this
wasn't
a
record
low
temperature
kind
of
event.
They
were
extreme
lows,
but
our
our
operational
assets
have
functioned
properly
at
these
temperatures
in
the
past.
J
What
was
unique
about
this
weather
event
was
the
rapid
drop
in
temperature,
so
from
a
100
to
o600
on
the
23rd,
we
went
from
a
system
average
temperature
of
45
degrees
to
5
degrees,
the
change
in
weather.
So
again,
across
that
same
time
period
we
went
from
cool
and
raining
to
very
cold
and
very
windy,
and
then
the
third
which
you
can
see
from
this
illustration,
the
breadth
of
this
system
and
and
that
really
matters
when
you
think
about
all
of
our
systems
in
the
Eastern
interconnect
are
connected.
J
So
we
have
the
opportunity
to
lean
on
our
peers
in
extreme
events,
bring
power
in
sell
power
out
as
our
as
our
neighbors
need
it,
and
the
breadth
of
this
system
had
an
impact
on
that
so
weather
first
second
talked
about
consumer
demand
and
I.
Think
this
one,
you
know
is
actually
a
bit
surprised
when
I
saw
what
an
anomaly
this
was
in
consumer
demand,
I'll
Orient
you
to
the
slide
here
on
the
y-axis.
We
have
total
megawatts
that
we
serve
across
the
system
across
the
bottom.
J
You
can
see
it
goes
from
the
first
of
December
to
the
15th
of
January,
and
each
of
the
different
colored
lines
represent
the
actual
consumer
demand
that
we've
seen
across
that
period
in
the
last
10
years,
and
you
know
what
jumps
out
clearly
is
The
Orange
Box.
This
is
the
demand
during
that
December,
23rd
and
24th
period.
J
J
J
Some
change
in
consumer
demand
that
we
had
not
anticipated,
and
then
some
of
this
led
to
the
third
component
that
we
keep
reserves
in
place
for
and
that's
availability
of
generation,
so
outlined
in
blue
here-
is
the
territory
that
we
serve
in
the
Tennessee
Valley.
Each
of
the
highlighted
icons
is
a
power
plant
that
we
lost
some
availability
to.
During
this
event,
due
to
freezing
related
issues,
you
can
see
a
number
of
icons
out
there
that
aren't
highlighted
those
are
the
other
plants
on
our
system.
J
This
is
just
a
view
that
illustrates
the
impact
that
this
system
had
on
the
entire
Eastern
United
States,
so
some
some
different
colors
here,
the
the
light
yellow
sort
of
cross
Mid-America.
This
is
the
Southwest
power
pool
and
ercot,
which
serves
Texas
some
slightly
higher
temperatures
in
this
area.
But
those
areas
experience
challenges
to
that
25
percent
of
dessert
reserves
that
I
mentioned
in
the
Miso
system.
They
were
utilizing
some
of
their
reserves
during
this
event,
but
had
not
fully
depleted
them
in
the
pjm
system
to
our
North.
J
They
had
fully
depleted
their
reserves
and
had
called
back
some
sales
that
had
they
had
made
to
us,
which
is
fully
within
their
rights,
but
we
had
purchased
power
from
them
in
order
to
try
to
cover
the
peak,
especially
on
that
second
day
and
because
the
cold
had
set
across
their
system
in
a
similar
fashion
and
affected
their
generation
in
a
similar
fashion.
They
called
those
sales
back.
You
can
see
TVA
and
then
to
our
East,
primarily
the
Carolinas,
which
is
served
by
Duke
dominion
and
Santee
Cooper.
J
J
So,
following
the
event
we
had
identified
through
our
plan
operators,
240
actions
that
came
out
of
those
power
plant
losses
due
to
freezing
issues.
As
of
last
week,
100
of
those
actions
have
been
completed
so
similar
to
the
previous
presentation,
additional
heat,
Trace
insulation,
more
robust
structures
that
have
been
put
in
place.
These
are
near-term
actions
that
we've
taken
that
ensure
that
if
we
had
this
type
of
event
next
week,
it
would
not
occur
in
a
similar
fashion.
We
are
in
the
after
action
review
now
working
on
what
are
the
longer
term
actions.
J
So
you
know
the
the
term
we've
been
using.
We
need
to
Minnesota
proof
some
of
these
plants,
which
has
some
engineering
implications
that
we've
got
to
think
through
thoroughly,
because
if
you
Minnesota
proof
of
plant,
you
got
to
think
about
how
it
operates
in
the
summer
as
well.
So,
working
through
that
engineering
is
going
to
take
a
little
bit
more
time,
but
that's
certainly
the
direction
that
we're
moving
so
that
we
can
ensure
this
doesn't
occur.
J
Couple
important
pieces
of
this
we've
involved
our
customers
in
this
after
action
review,
so
they
are
formally
involved.
We've
also
established
what
we're
calling
a
blue
ribbon
panel.
That's
compromised
of
some
industry
experts,
Joy
ditto,
who
is
the
CEO
of
American
Public
Power
Association
Mike
Howard
who's,
the
former
CEO
of
epri,
which
is
a
research
group,
that's
recognized
in
the
industry
and
former
Senator
Bob
Corker.
J
J
So
that
is
the
end
of
my
prepared
remarks,
certainly
open
to.
A
Questions,
let
me
stop
you
here
and
I've
got
about
five
members
that
have
want
to
ask
some
questions
and
then
we'll
allow
them
to
ask
and
then
I
will
proceed.
So
I
think
representing
miles
has
a
question.
K
K
We
are
not
ready
to
transition
to
reliable,
affordable
energy
in
other
sources
that
are
being
forced
from
the
federal
level,
so
I
have
visits
raw's
plan
as
far
as
your
nuclear
and
and
some
of
those
items,
but
as
far
as
this
specific
issue
that
we're
looking
at
today
is
a
huge
concern,
and
can
you
all
elaborate
on
how
the
federal
government,
or
even
at
the
state
level
for
that
matter,
if
there
is
a
stumbling
block,
whether
it
be
your
financial
investment
opportunities,
whatever
that
may
be,
that
is
preventing
us
to
make
sure
that
we
have
affordable,
sustainable
moving
forward.
K
We
can't
depend
on
a
on
a
valve.
We
can't
depend
on
we're
going
to
have
to
have
something
in
place,
because
that
is
what
we
we're.
I
mean
it's
obvious
and
I,
and
you
would
not
be
in
front
of
this
committee
unless
December
had
happened.
I
think
you're
very
well
aware
of
that.
So
can
you
all
elaborate
on
what's
standing
in
the
way.
J
Yeah,
certainly,
and
and
certainly
concur
with
your
sentiment
on
the
need
to
be
disciplined
and
deliberate
as
we
move
through
any
transition,
and
so
one
thing
I'll
point
out
there.
There
are
two
drivers
to
some
transition
in
energy
right
now,
right
one
driver
is:
we
have
some
aging
power
plants
that
we
our
end
of
life.
J
We've
got
to
work
them
off
the
system
and
we've
got
to
figure
out
what
are
the
most
reliable
ways
to
replace
those
power
plants,
and
then
there
is
a
growing
market
demand
for
sustainable
products,
so
I'll
say
the
way
we
view
this
at
TVA.
Is
you
know
back
to
energy
security?
We've
got
to
have
a
diverse
mix
of
assets.
J
We
have
consumer
demand
that
is
interested
in
sustainable
products.
So
let's
do
that
in
conjunction
with
the
existing
Fleet
of
assets
that
we
have
that
are
designed
to
maintain
first
reliability,
resiliency
affordability
and
then
meet
market
demand
in
terms
of
sustainability.
So
I
I,
don't
believe,
there's
anything
in
our
way
right
now
of
doing
this
effectively
other
than
being
very
disciplined
and
deliberate
and
making
sure
that
we
are
keeping
those
priorities
in
those
orders.
A
H
Meals,
thank
you.
Mr
chairman.
My
question
was
also
for
the
previous
presenters
as
well,
but
I
do
have
two
questions
you
met.
You
mentioned
about
the
the
facilities
that
went
offline
that
had
problems.
What
was
the
energy
mix
of
those
nuclear
coal
renewable?
So
what
was
the
mixture
on
those
and
did
any
particular
one,
whether
the
storm
better
or
worse,.
J
Yeah,
so
we
had
about
7
000
megawatts
of
generation
that
went
offline,
2,
600
megawatts
of
that
was
coal
generation
and
the
balance
of
it
was
natural
gas
generation.
J
You
know
as
a
the
other
side
of
that
nuclear
100
available
through
this
event,
Hydro
100
available
through
this
event
and
many
of
the
newer
natural
gas
plants
100
available.
Through
this
event,
the
primary
driver
on
both
losses
of
generation
were
freezing
the
issues
on
sensing
lines
and
what
we
had
previously
established
as
the
design
criteria
for
how
these
plants
operated
wasn't
sufficient
for
that
rapid
drop
in
temperature.
So
it's
heating
was
in
place.
H
Right
and
just
to
follow
up
your
answer
to
representative
miles,
you
said:
there's
a
growing
market
demand
for
Renewables
I.
Guess
you
really
think
that's
a
growing
market
demand
or
a
growing
political
demand.
J
So
I'll
tell
you
from
our
perspective:
we
are
building
Renewables
to
meet
a
market
demand.
You
know
we,
we
have
a
growing
number
of
industrial
customers,
commercial
customers
and
even
residential
customers
that
are
asking
for
some
of
these
remote
renewable
products
and
programs.
So
what
we
are
doing
on
our
system
to
build
out
Renewables
is
not
to
meet
any
kind
of
federal
or
state
standard.
It's
for
the
purpose
of
serving
those
Market
needs.
A
Me
follow
up
on
that
you,
you
say
that
there's
a
huge
demand
from
the
market
out
there
as
far
as
large
companies
or
whatever,
and-
and
that
may
be
true,
but
why
do
you
think
that
it's
in
the
best
interest
of
the
ratepayers
of
Kentucky
to
pay
for
that
now?
These
large
corporations
want
to
invest
in
wind
and
solar
half
at
it?
A
That's
between
you
and
your
stockholders,
but
why
should
TVA
customers
pay
because
you
feel,
like
you,
have
to
provide
someone
in
Industry
who's,
not
willing
to
pay
themselves?
They
want
you
to
make
that
investment,
and
then
they
want
you
to
pass
that
on
to
your
customers.
Why
does
TVA
feel,
like
that's
part
of
your
of
your
mission
statement,.
J
That
is
not
a
part
of
our
mission
statement.
I
couldn't
agree
with
you
more.
We
are
not
putting
a
single
renewable
on
the
system
that
has
a
premium
that
is
not
being
paid
by
one
of
those
Industrials
or
commercials
or
residential
customers.
So
anything
that
we're
putting
on
the
system.
They
are
paying
the
cost
above
what
a
normal
piece
of
generation
for
us
to
build.
Would-Be,
we
are
not
putting
this
On
The
Backs
the
native
rate
payers,
as.
A
They
should
thank
you,
representative,
Smith,.
I
I
But
it
really
bothers
me
in
the
last
few
months,
when
I
read
about
more
power
plants,
coal
generated
power
plants
being
shut
down,
and
then
we
hear
today
that
we
have
issues,
but
nobody
yet
has
said
in
the
next
six
months
a
year.
This
is
our
game
plan
to
get
to
where
we
need
to
be
as
far
as
electorate
and
the
grid.
But
yet
we
keep
keep
hearing
about
all
these
things
that
we're
going
to
keep
plugging
into
it,
such
as
cars
and
more
renewable
energies
and
I'm.
I
It
sickens
me
to
think
about
our
future
of
getting
away
from
the
fossil,
and
mostly
in
my
district
in
my
area,
and
that's
not
having
a
say
in
it,
that
we
can't
come
here
and
say
anything
so
in
researching
for
the
committee
meeting
today,
I've
seen
that
you
were
in
the
nuclear
side,
and
so
I
came
up
with
a
a
question
that
I
had
for
you
to
kind
of
get
you
to
elaborate
on
it.
I
That'll
give
you
a
chance
to
tell
us
what
would
you
consider
to
be
the
most
reasonable
and
effective
base
load
power
for
the
future
that
would
consider
carbon
be
considered
carbon
neutral
and
then
asking
that
it
kind
of
alludes
to
what
the
chairman
brought
up
in
the
the
last
discussion,
and
that
is
what
is
your
future
plans
as
far
as
building
out?
What
can
we
expect
here
in
Kentucky
to
since
they've
already
threw
the
knife
at
us
in
the
coal?
I
What
is
your
game
plan
to
give
us
a
cost,
efficient
electorate
to
replace
it
with,
and
not
just
tell
us
that
we're
going
to
have
to
all
start
putting
windmills
up.
I
mean
what
is
the
tva's
game
and
I
respect
your
company
very
much
they're,
they're,
very
effective
in
my
area
been
there
for
years
and
I
appreciate
you,
but
I
want
to
hear
your
perspective
on
what
your
game
plan
is
for
in
what
your
business
model
looks
like
in
replacing
what
we're
losing,
and
that
is
the
fossil
end
of
it.
J
Yep,
certainly
so
I'll
I'll
be
very
brief,
but
a
bit
of
history
that
leads
us
to
now
so
in
our
industry,
across
the
industry
and
I'll
speak
specifically
for
TVA
period
of
time
from
2010
to
2020
that
we
effectively
had
zero
growth.
During
that
period
of
time
we
Consolidated
some
assets.
We
worked
on
our
balance
sheet.
We
reduced
our
debt
coming
into
the
pandemic.
We
saw
about
a
1.5
percent
drop
in
sales
year.
Two
of
the
pandemic.
J
We
saw
a
two
two
percent
increase
in
sales
year:
three,
a
three
percent
increase
in
sales,
which
I
think
leads
specifically
to
the
comment
that
you
made.
We
are
seeing
electrification
happening
right
before
our
eyes
and
I.
Think
it's
going
to
happen
more,
so
our
plan
for
ensuring
reliable,
resilient,
affordable,
sustainable
Fleet
is
what
you
will
see
from
us
as
building
a
significant
amount
of
natural
gas
between
now
and
the
end
of
the
decade.
Right
now
we
are
working
on
our
Clinch
River
Site.
J
So
it's
a
site,
that's
been
permitted
for
a
new
nuclear
facility,
referred
to
as
a
small
modular
reactor.
A
small
modular
reactor
is
smaller
in
footprint
to
a
traditional
nuclear
site
and
has
a
great
deal
of
innovation
in
the
construction,
and
that's
really
important,
because
probably
what
you've
seen
or
what
you've
read
about
in
nuclear
construction
is,
there
tends
to
be
overruns.
There
tends
to
be
scheduled
delays.
This
innovation
in
the
construction
piece
is
what
we
see
is
integral
to
Reviving,
The,
Nuclear
industry
and,
specifically
to
your
first
question.
J
Long-Term
nuclear
has
to
be
a
huge
component
to
serve
the
customers
that
we
serve.
It's
it's
region
specific,
so
you
talk
about
re
regions
out
west.
You
talk
about
regions
to
the
north.
They
may
have
different
solutions,
but
for
our
region
to
support
heavy
industry
and
the
businesses
and
jobs
that
we
have
we're
going
to
need
nuclear
in
our
future.
L
This
is
for
either
one
of
you
so
feel.
Free
to
jump
in
whoever's
got
the
answer.
The
chairman
sort
of
asked
part
of
one
of
the
questions
that
I
had
here
I.
If
the
market
is
what's
driving
your
decision,
making
I'm
not
sure
what
part
of
the
market
told
you
shutting
down.
Coal
was
the
best
way
to
get
it.
What
you
need,
because
it
sounds
like
based
on
my
conversations
with
your
staff
before
now
and
and
your
testimony
today,
you
underestimated
the
demand
and
then
you
didn't
have
enough
Headroom.
L
J
Average
power
sales
probably
would
be
in
the
50
per
megawatt
hour
range.
We
were
getting
up
into
the
hundred
and
fifty
dollar
a
megawatt
hour
range.
J
L
I
I
wasn't
aware
of
the
Blue
Ribbon
panel
that
you've
got
I'd.
Ask
you
to
put
somebody
from
Muhlenberg
County
on
it
or
pick
another
rural
County,
a
homeowner,
a
rate
payer
or
someone
from
the
Fiscal
Court
I'm
glad
you've
got
the
the
Learned
experts.
You've
got
but
I
think
it'd
be
wise
for
TVA
to
hear
from
people
that
you
actually
affected.
L
I
wanted
to
know,
and
I
still
don't
have
an
answer.
This
question
whether
or
not
TVA
can
even
honor
its
its
obligation
to
provide
Power
because
demand
isn't
going
to
go
down.
You've
explained
it
away
today
and
I'm
going
to
say
this.
You
didn't
put
it
in
these
words,
but
all
I
heard
was
was
blaming
the
the
circumstance
and
blaming
rate
payers
and
heat
pumps
that
they've
installed
for
unexpectedly
high
demand,
but
it
makes
me
worried
about
whether
or
not
TVA
can
even
provide
power
down
the
road.
L
I'm
42
I,
don't
remember
a
time
when
we've
ever
had
rolling
blackouts,
but
I
was,
in
my
attic,
babysitting
a
torpedo
shop
heater
on
my
vinyl
drain
line
on
my
HVAC
system,
which
was
frozen
solid,
which
was
plugged
into
the
wall.
The
torpedo
heater
was
when
everything
went
out.
That's
how
I
learned
about
the
rolling
blackouts
that
you
all
apparently
had
in
the
in
the
manual
for
some
time.
L
I
guess
I'm
worried
about
whether
or
not
you
can
provide
power
down
the
road,
especially
since
you
continue
to
close
colon.
If
I'm,
not
mistaken,
I
think
the
TVA
Network
your
system
is
about
to
shut
down
more
coal
producing
plants
in
the
next
year
or
two.
L
Why
do
we
keep
shutting
down
coal
a
b?
You
didn't
mention
one
thing:
Mr
Melda,
not
one
time
why
you
didn't
communicate
or
why
tape,
not
you,
but
TVA
didn't
communicate
with
rate
payers.
All
of
us
who
pay
the
bill.
Why
rolling
blackouts
was
even
an
option
on
the
table?
Why
was
that
even
contemplated
as
a
potential
thing
we
might
need
to
rely
on
three?
Are
we
going
to
start
seeing
blackouts
more
often
and
four?
What
would
it
take
to
turn
coal
plants
back
on
what
what's
required
for
TVA
to
reverse
course?
J
Okay,
so
first
I'll
talk
about
the
shutdown
of
coal.
That's
gone
on
thus
far
and
and
I
mentioned
it
in
the
last
answer
through
that
period
that
we
had
effectively
zero
sales
growth,
the
2010
through
2020,
we
were
consolidating
assets,
the
oldest
assets
that
we
have
on
the
system
are
the
coal
assets.
So
several
of
those
got
shut
down
and
I
I
will
say
so.
J
More
about
it,
so
we
we
have
reduced
Some
Coal
plants
during
that
period
of
time
we
are
building
these
natural
gas
plants.
So
that's,
what's
filling
in
the
need
that
we're
seeing
in
the
increased
consumption
on
the
communication
side,
I
I
will
I
will
say
we
failed
at
that
we
could
have
done
a
much
better
job
of
communicating.
The
fact
is,
this
is
the
the
first
time
that
we've
ever
in
our
history
needed
to
use
these
curtailments
at
the
distribution
level.
Internally,
we
drill
on
them.
J
We
drill
on
them
with
our
local
power
companies.
You
know,
we
know
that
they're
there,
as
a
last
step
that
you
take
before
you
go
kind
of
deeper
into
curtailment
process,
but
we
had
not
done
a
good
job
of
communicating
that
and
didn't
have
a
good
communication
system
in
place
real
time
such
that
we
could
give
folks
notice
that
this
was
coming.
So
that
is
absolutely
something
that's
in
the
after
action
review
that
we
have
to
solve
and
you
want
to
hit
the
one.
M
Yeah
just
add
one
thing
mainly
to
your
comment
on
the
Blue
Ribbon
panel,
so
I
did
want
to
emphasize
I
think
Mr
Melton
mentioned
it
before
we
do
have
10
of
our
local
power
companies,
including
a
representative
Penny
from
Pennyrile
recc
from
Kentucky
and
two
of
the
associations
that
represent
all
local
power
companies
that
are
directly
serve
customers
and
they're,
actually
on
the
working
group
of
that
of
the
after
action
review.
So
we
want
to
make
sure
that
representation
of
those
even
closer
to
the
end
use
customer
is
is
certainly
part
of
that.
M
M
Is
there
a
way
to
get
better
preparation,
better
advance
notice,
better
real-time
Communications
during
an
event,
so
as
as
Aaron
just
said
that
that's
very
much
part
of
the
after
action
review
and
I'll
just
end
by
saying
again
our
appreciation
to
the
15
local
power
companies
that
serve
Kentucky
in
the
153
that
represent
that
cover
the
the
seven
state
region,
because
they
were
essential
to
executing
on
a
portion
of
our
emergency
load
curtailment
program
that
had
actually
never
been
exercised
before
without
their
support.
M
J
And
I
think
the
last
question
was
on
returning
coal
to
service.
So
in
the
event
that
you
have
a
coal
facility
that
has
been
retired,
formally
retired
from
a
TVA
standpoint,
it
would
take
two
different
actions.
It
would
take
a
board
action
to
authorize
taking
that
out
of
retirement.
The
second
action
that
you'd
have
to
go
through
is
an
environmental
action.
That's
called
a
new
source
review,
so
you
effectively
have
to
assume
that
this
is
a
new
plant
that
you're
putting
back
on
you'd
have
to
get
air
water
and
waste
permits
for
that
unit.
Again,.
A
Yeah
and
let's
say
new
source
of
view
is
the
reason
you
couldn't
make
upgrades
to
that
plan.
In
the
first
place,
it's
all
part
of
the
federal
government,
any
more
questions
Senator.
Thank
you.
Okay,
thank
you.
Senator
Smith
and
then
representative
Blanton.
G
Yeah
and
I'll
be
quick.
We
we
have
a
lot
of
members
that
have
asked
you
know
how
we
got
here
and
I'll.
G
Tell
you
just
like
chairman
Goot
said
I
mean
this
came
about
by
the
federal
government,
cap
and
trade,
getting
very
aggressive
and
punishing
our
utilities
for
every
megawatt
Power
generated
by
coal,
and
so
it
was
a
showdown
of
legal
fees
and
being
constantly
bombarded
with
threats
from
the
federal
government,
almost
at
every
angle,
until
the
utilities
had
to
cave
in
and
start
following
a
policy
in
order
to
keep
under
the
radar
of
having
the
feds
drop.
The
hammer
on
you
and
that's
how
we
got
here.
G
That's
how
the
Big
Sandy
got
closed
out
there
when
it
didn't
make
good
sense.
But
how
do
you
force
people
into
buying
something?
That's
not
doesn't
make
sense
for
them
to
purchase
it?
Well,
you
have
to
drive
the
cost
of
everything
else
up,
so
so
they
drove
the
cost
of
coal
up
and
even
still
at
the
Henry
Hub.
They
couldn't
drive
it
under
because
it
was
so
competitive,
so
they
had
to
kill
it
all
together.
So
they
made
a
lot
of
these
power
companies
retire.
G
These
fleets
and
now
what's
happening,
is
look
what's
happening
in
Germany
right
now
and
you're
very
aware
and
I
know
they
have
doubled
down
they're,
not
going
to
wind
up
being
energy
poor.
They
have
figured
out
that
the
countries
with
power
right
now
and
I
mean
affordable
power.
Are
the
countries
that
are
going
to
be
ruling
and
making
the
decisions
in
the
next
20
years
going
forward
same
thing
with
Great
Britain,
they
opened
the
first
mine
back
on
over
100
years
and
they're
doubling
down
on
coal.
Kentucky
should
be
no
different.
G
We
should
be
doubling
down
on
something
we
know
has
historically
worked
for
us.
The
power
rates
in
our
lifetime
have
been.
You
know,
anywhere
between
two
to
four
to
six
cents
per
kilowatt
hour,
some
of
the
most
effective
in
the
country
and
right
now
for
most
industrial
parks,
it's
between
18
to
22
cents
per
kilowatt
hour
and
above
how
many
Industries
out
there
can
absorb
any
tech
industry
that
can
possibly
stand
to
pay
higher
than
Hawaii
or
Alaska
or
New
York
and
then
Kentucky.
So
it's
a
disaster.
G
A
policy
that's
been
affected
by
the
government,
pushing
a
policy
on
the
utilities
and
the
utilities
being
forced
to
retire
things
that
don't
make
a
lot
of
sense
for
them,
but
you
have
to
do
that
or
you
get
regulated
out
of
business.
So
for
those
of
you
that
that
have
not
been
here
that
long,
that's
exactly
how
we
got
here
and
the
cap
and
trade
game
and
the
punishments
that
go
with
it,
try
to
destroy
something
that
was
very
effective
and
efficient
and
reliable
and
I
mean
I'm
I'm.
G
G
You're
gonna
have
six
months
of
power
going
to
these
families
and
they're
going
to
have
heat
and
they're
going
to
have
their
air
conditionings
work
when
they
need
it
and
you're
not
going
to
have
rolling
brownouts
and
blackouts,
that's
just
the
truth
of
it
and
we
never
had
those
in
Kentucky
when
I
grew
up,
we
had
a
lot
of
power
and
a
lot
of
it
when
we
needed
it
and
now
I'm
paying
more
than
I've
ever
paid
in
my
lifetime
and
can't
even
get
it.
That's
all
I
have
to
say:
okay.
A
Thank
you.
We've
we've
got
representative
Blanton,
Johnson,
Gentry,
Burke,
white
and
Turner,
so
I'm
going
to
let
them
ask
questions
and
then
we'll
go
to
Mr
Pratt.
That's
about
all.
We
have
time
for
so
represent
Blanton.
N
O
N
Pretty
much
one
answer:
responses
reliable,
most
reliable
Co,
Renewables,
Nicole
cost
efficient,
cold
renewals.
N
N
But
you're
going
more
towards
Renewables
away
from
coal.
That's
more
cost
efficient,
it's
more
reliable!
That's!
Contrary
to
your
mission
statement.
It's
not
you
all!
I'm,
not
blaming
TVA!
Okay!
I!
Want
you
to
understand.
This
is
a
nationwide
thing,
something
I
never
thought
we
would
see
in
Kentucky
brown
outs
blackouts.
N
N
To
start
writing,
calling
you
all
to
show
where
their
support
lies,
because
apparently
that
plays
a
role
in
ural's
decision
making
and
I
think
you're
going
to
find
that
most
of
your
customers
aren't
about
the
Renewables
they're
about
when
that
temperature
does
drop
to
be
able
to
have
heat
because
their
elderly
parents
need
to
be
cared
for,
their
children
need
heat.
This
is
not
the
worst
weather
we've
had
in
Kentucky
by
far
by
far,
but
this
has
become
one
of
the
most
tragic
situations
that
we
as
humans
have
put
ourselves
in.
N
We
have
put
ourselves
in
this
position,
make
no
mistake
about
it,
because
we've
listened
to
certain
people
and
those
people
who
don't
agree
with
those
people.
We've
purposely
shut
them
out.
We
shut
them
down.
We
begin
to
call
them
names
to
say
that
they're,
not
coal
availability,
that's
not
true
at
all.
You
come
to
my
region,
East
Kentucky.
The
reason
coal
is
not
being
mind
is
not
because
it's
not
available
it's
because
our
federal
government
and
in
some
means
over
the
years
our
state
government
has
forced
so
many
regulations
on
the
coal
industry.
N
It's
made
impossible
for
them
to
mine
coal,
they've
made
impossible
and
that's
driven
up
the
cost.
We've
driven
up
the
rate
cost
for
people.
We
talk
about
his
government,
how
we
want
to
help
poor
people
all
the
time,
but
we
turn
around.
We
give
monopolies
to
utilities
to
let
them
charge
whatever
they
want,
so
they
can
listen
to
those
who
are
crying
the
loudest.
N
P
Well,
I
guess
I'll,
just
ditto
what
you
just
heard.
That
was
a
lot
of
my
question,
but
I
will
ask
this
with
these
customers
who
were
demanding
slash
requesting
whatever
term
you
want
to
use
that
you
go
to
Renewables
and
are
paying
for
it
I'd
like
some
more
details
on
that
I'd
like
to
know
who
they
are
and
what
your
responses
have
been
to
those
requests.
P
P
Yes,
sir,
and
then
very
quickly,
Mr
chairman
I
leader
miles,
asked
the
question
of
what
roadblocks
you
see
in
the
way
that
we
might
be
able
to
help
with
I
would
like
the
gentleman
from
Texas
Gas
Buzz
Jeff,
if
you
guys
could
at
some
point
either
if
we
have
time
before
you
adjourn
or
after
adjournment
answer
that
same
question
for
us,
if
you
could,
you
know
we
can.
However,
we
can
get
it
done.
Thank
you.
Mr
chairman.
Q
Thank
you
Mr
chair,
thanks
guys
for
being
here,
and
this
is
my
first
day
on
this
committee.
It's
had
no
idea.
I
was
going
to
get
into
a
natural
gas
and
coal
fight
here.
Q
Just
a
couple
of
simple
questions
just
overview.
Your
presentation,
if
you
don't
mind,
I
listened
to
both
of
of
the
presenters
today
and
there
seemed
to
be
a
lot
of
talking
about
the
the
weather
system
that
came
in,
and
not
necessarily
the
temperature,
but
the
strength
and
intensity
of
the
storm
is
that
something
that
happens
very
often
here.
I
guess
that's
a
pretty
rare
event.
Q
Q
Okay
seems
to
be
getting
a
lot
more
common.
These
days,
these
intense
storms
that
we're
dealing
with
we
dealt
with
F4
tornadoes
in
Western
Kentucky
that
stayed
on
the
ground
forever.
We
dealt
with
floods
that
are
outrageous
in
East
Kentucky,
it's
hard
to
turn
on
television
set
in
the
last
within
30
days,
and
we're
talking
about
fires
and
wildfires
and
droughts
and
and
everything
else
that
is
so
excessive.
Q
We
haven't
seen
we're
dealing
with
with
things
that
we
haven't
dealt
with
in
a
really
long
time
or
ever
ever,
and
things
are
changing,
there's
a
reason
we're
trying
to
move
to
away
from
more
fossil
fuels.
Q
Perhaps
it
should
be
started
by
scientists-
maybe
even
a
geologist,
not
many
of
us
around
here,
but
I'll
give
that
thought.
But
my
simple
question
to
you
and
I'll
be
done
I'm.
Sorry
here.
If
the
same
type
of
storm
happened
in
three
weeks,
should
we
expect
the
same
kind
of
result
or
is
there
anything
you've
learned
or
any
changes
that
you've
made?
That
may
have
minimized
that
from
happening
again
like
like
we've
seen.
J
Yeah,
so
I
can
tell
you
that
immediately
following
the
event
after
the
plants
were
secured,
the
plant
Personnel
went
through
and
listed
all
of
their
lessons,
learned
all
the
actions
that
they
took
to
try
to
mitigate
some
of
the
circumstances
we
captured
all
of
those
had
247
actions
that
were
generated.
All
of
those
actions
are
complete
to
date.
So
mitigation
has
been
put
in
place
to
absolutely
minimize
the
potential
that
this
could
happen
tomorrow.
Q
So
what
I'm
hearing
is
you
guys
have
done
what
you
can
do,
at
least
from
a
short-term
standpoint,
do
do
we
have
any
infrastructure
issues
in
your
opinion
that
need
to
be
addressed
moving
forward
because
we're
going
to
get
these
storms
more
often
I.
Q
Know
that
yeah,
can
you
speak
on
that
at
all
I.
J
Can
yeah
so,
as
you
said,
short-term
actions
have
been
taken,
so
temporary
things
have
been
put
in
place
to
mitigate
the
specific
event
that
we
saw
for
extreme
events
in
general.
This
is
part
of
this
actor
after
action.
Review
for
us
is
looking
at
the
underlying
engineering
design
basis
that
these
plants
were
constructed
under
and
determining
do
we
have
the
right
breadth
of
potential
situations
identified
that
could
occur
and
that
the
design
be
changed
such
that
we
can
be
more
robust
in
the
future.
So
that's
the
longer
term
action.
R
Thank
you
chairman,
and
thank
you,
gentlemen,
for
coming
to
speak
before
the
committee
today.
I
I
will
be
brief.
I
have
two
questions
that
relate
to
the
specific
event
relating
to
the
storm.
The
first
is
when
I
look
at
the
map
that
you've
provided
of
negative
impacts
to
the
electric
supply.
R
J
R
And
then
it
looks
like
a
large
percentage.
More
than
50
percent
of
the
natural
gas
plants
is
that
right,
yeah.
R
J
R
J
R
Okay,
my
last
thing,
I'd,
just
like
to
say,
is
I
believe
that
you
have
lots
of
customers
who
are
asking
for
renewable
I'm.
Sure
that
that's
true
and
Kentucky
is
you
know,
we're
a
cold
friendly
State.
It's
a
major
resource
here,
so
it's
quite
possible
that
you're
going
to
hear
very
varied
opinions,
but
I
just
wanted
to
say
that
I
believe
you
and
my
constituents
in
the
75th
District
they're,
absolutely
the
kind
of
people
who
are
saying
we
want
more
renewable
energy.
So
thank
you
very
much.
R
G
G
We
had
four
cents
per
kilowatt
raids
in
the
70s
in
there
with
some
of
the
worst
storms
that
have
ever
hit
our
region,
and
we
never
were
at
without
power
like
what
we're
seeing
now
so
for
whatever
this
new
committee.
We're
going
to
put
scientists
on
stuff,
like
that,
you
don't
have
a
scientists
to
have
lived
through
the
70s
and
remember
what
our
power
grid
looked
like.
Then.
G
A
O
Yes,
sir,
thank
you
Mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
all
for
being
here.
I
toured
the
Kentucky
Power
plant
in
Louisa
the
other
day
and
they
was
went
from
100
coal
to
Natural
Gas
and
took
the
coal
production
section
out.
Is
it
feeds
more
practical
to
keep
Co
available
with
some
of
these
plants
and
not
do
away
with
them,
but
keep
them
on
a
standby
or
keep
them
where
they
can
be
activated
again
instead
of
going
to
nuclear
or
some
other
type
of
energy?
O
Is
it
even
practical
to
do
that?
But
you
know
like
Louise
is
sitting
right
there
at
the
heart
of
the
coal
country
and
to
me
it
would
make
sense
to
keep
that
in
place
and
maybe
be
able
to
use
that,
along
with
natural
gas
or
if
that's
even
possible,.
O
Keep
coal
as
a
standby
with
natural
gas.
O
And
would
that
be
cost
prohibitive
or.
O
J
So
there's
different
Technologies
in
the
the
the
thermal
component
that
takes
you,
know
Coal
Energy
and
turns
it
into
steam
versus
the
component
that
turns
natural
gas
energy
into
steam.
Those
are
separate
components,
so
you'd
have
you'd,
have
to
have
you'd
set
up
some
sort
of
scenario
where
you
had
multiple
components
and
that's
where
the
cost
difference
would
come
in.
Okay,.
A
Sir,
thank
you
Senator
Turner.
S
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman.
Thank
you
gentleman
for
being
here,
I,
don't
care
who
answers
whoever's
appropriate
as
I
understand
it.
The
sole
basis
for
shutting
down
the
cold
Temple
was
based
upon
tva's
decision
to
look
at
their
records
and
say:
well,
we
don't
have
an
increase
in
request
for
usage,
so
that
justifies
us
reducing
our
assets.
Basically,
by
doing
something
is
that
what
you
said
earlier
is
I
understood
it?
S
Yes,
so
if
I
ask
you
to
go
back
to
before
the
77
winner
that
we
had,
it
was
the
terrible
one
here
when
I
was
in
law
school
from
then
up
to
look
at
your
records
that
it
would
show
sometime
that
you've
done
something
like
that
to
justify
doing
away
with
assets
just
not
looking
out
for
changes
in
the
future.
Even
though
we
see
that
the
winners
are
worse,
the
storms
are
worse
now
and
have
been
for
the
last
10
years.
S
S
Really
what
my
real
question
is,
but
if
you
go
back
to
77
and
look
at
your
records,
did
you
do
that
then?
Or
did
you
expect
that
you're
going
to
have
a
change
in
the
weather?
It
was
going
to
increase
that
whether
people
needed
it
at
that
time
or
not
just
like
what
we're
having
now
in
this
bad
weather,
all
over
I
remember
what
was
it
out,
Minnesota
that
One
Soul
coal
plants,
what
saved
that
state
from
getting
froze
up
some
years
ago?
Don't
you
all
ever
plan
for
something
like
that.
S
Well,
but
tearing
down
a
plant
ain't
that
just
the
opposite,
because
now
look
what
happened?
You
did
blackouts
brownouts
if
you
want
to
call
them,
but
you
shut
electricity
down
to
people
without
notice
as
I
understand
it,
whether
they
had
a
heart
machine
hooked
up
to
them
or
a
lung
transplants
that
they
were
breathing
death,
didn't
mean
anything
to
you
all.
It
was
them
dollars
that
you
wanted
to
shut
that
plan
down.
S
S
S
J
I
think
there's
a
mix
it'd
probably
be
better
answered
by
the
gas
companies,
but
before
TVA
we
have
some
storage
facilities
that
sit
in
the
valley
footprint
that
are
not
tva-owned,
but
we
essentially
rent
capacity
in
those
storage
facilities.
But.
S
J
S
J
S
J
S
A
Of
that,
let
me
it's
about
to
get
close
to
cross-examination,
so
I
got
one
more
one.
Q
A
Quick
question
because
I've
got
representative
fugit
and
Webb
and
then
we've
got
to
get
KU
up
here
to
testify.
S
J
We
we
have
five
facilities
on
the
system
that
have
some
planning
dates.
We've
only
announced
one
coal
facility,
which
is
the
Cumberland
coal
facility.
There
are
two
units
there.
We've
announced
intention
to
shut
down
one
of
those
units
and
build
a
natural
gas
plant
there
and.
J
S
A
You
representative,
Fugate.
T
T
U
A
That
is
that,
because
of
111
B
of
the
Clean
Air
Act,
where
they
regulated
that
any
new
co-farted
power
plants
could
only
emit
as
bad
as
much
carbon
as
what
you
could
get
from
a
natural
gas
facility.
That.
T
T
So
you
go
back
to
reliability.
You
know
I
grew
up
in
the
70s
and
80s
in
the
hollers
of
East
Kentucky
and
we
had
a
cold,
a
cold
furnace
in
the
basement
of
our
house,
my
papaw's
house,
and
have
we
had
solar
panels?
Papaw
couldn't
have
made
the
sunshine
he
couldn't
have
made
the
wind
to
blow
but
he'd,
say
son,
go
down
there
and
throw
another,
throw
another
shovel
full
of
coal
in
the
stove
and
no
matter
how
cold
it
got
at
papaw's
house.
T
She
had
to
raise
the
windows
up
because
he
kept
him
so
hot
since
those
days
since
those
days,
I,
pastored
Church
in
Hazard
now
and
I've
got
people
in
our
in
our
church
in
their
70s
that
leaving
a
single
wide
mobile
home.
They
draw
652
dollars
a
month
and
last
month
their
electric
bill
was
468.
Dollars
is
because
of
no
doubt
because
of
the
federal
regulations
that
were
put
on
the
coal
fire
plant
now
I,
don't
know
about
District
75,
but
I
know
about
District
84.
T
and
we
enjoyed
low
electrical
rates
and,
and
it's
not
an
attack
on
you-
I
mean
you
as
men
of
TVA
and
just
Kentucky,
Power
American,
Electric
Power
and
the
power
companies
that
that
we
we
had
the
opportunities
to
enjoy
cheaper
electrical
rates
because
of
coal
and
I.
Don't
know
that
I'll
ever
hush
about
talking
about
the
reliability
of
coal,
because
it
would
make
sense
that,
if
a
fire,
if
a
coal-fired
Generation
Plant,
was
there,
you
can't
make
the
sunshine
and
you
can't
make
the
wind
blow.
T
But
you
can
always
throw
another
scoop
of
coal
in
that
coal-fired
Generation
Plant
and
it
would
take
care
of
of
the
people
that
that
you
serve
in
our
areas.
This
country
was
built
on
Common,
Sense
ideas
and
Common,
Sense
work,
ethics
and
common
sense.
It
done,
went
and
flew
out
the
window
in
this
country
and
it'd
be
good
if
we
could
go
back
to
Common,
Sense
kind
of
living.
Thank
you.
Mr
chairman
Senator,.
A
U
Brief
comment
and
kind
of
a
question
but
I'm
just
an
old
coal
miner
that
bought
a
new
diesel
truck,
so
I
guess
I'm
a
dinosaur
I
did
live
through
77.78
I
see
you
know,
there's
other
former
coal
miners
in
this
audience,
judge
Henry
being
one
and
and
several
of
us
up
here,
but
I
also
have
a
couple
energy
degrees
and.
U
It
amazes
me:
you
know
the
shift
that
we
have
seen
the
reason
I
like
my
diesel
fuel.
U
In
my
truck
it
was
an
electric
truck
with
your
brownouts
and
your
blackouts
as
we
shift
more
to
electric
vehicles,
which
also
I've
been
on
this
committee
for
about
25
years,
and
we
get
a
lot
of
presentations
about
grit,
the
grid
and
grid
reliability
and
the
attacks,
potential
attacks
and
the
insecurity
of
our
grid
and
as
we
shift
towards
a
more
electric-based
Mobility
I'm
very
concerned
as
a
rural
American.
U
How
I'm
going
to
do
that
and
I
sit
here
and
I?
Listen,
look
at
these
patterns
and
the
weather
weather
patterns
that
we
all
have
to
acknowledge,
have
changed
and
are
changing
and
it
it
worries
me
I
mean
these
brownouts
of
blackouts
would
certainly
affect
that
charging
station
that
aren't
even
built
in
my
area
yet
would
if
they
were
built,
would
they
not.
A
M
I'll
I'll
keep
it
even
more
brief
than
that
likely
because
I
I
know,
Mr
Melda
came
to
talk
about
the
operations
of
TVA,
and
hopefully
we
answered
the
questions
that
have
been
answered
so
I'll,
just
in
closing,
say
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
be
here.
Thank
you
for
the
partnership
in
Kentucky.
Thank
you
to
the
local
power
companies.
We
work
with
across
the
valley,
but
certainly
here,
because
ultimately
they
played
an
important
role
in
this
as
well
and
I
I.
Think
so.
M
The
comment
about,
obviously
it
was
not
our
goal-
is
to
keep
the
power
on
100
of
the
time
we
were
unable
to
do
that,
but
we
were
able
to
act
more
surgically
in
the
way
we
interrupted
power
because
of
the
the
partnership
with
our
local
power
companies.
So
the
way
it's
worked
was
our
request
of
them
in
order
to
know
to
execute
their
pre-planned
rolling
blackout.
So
we
do
hope
that
was
done
in
in
the
most
methodical
way
possible,
where
there's
a
lot
to
learn
from
that
and
there's
a
lot
to
improve.
M
Most
of
the
local
power
companies
are
looking
at
different
ways.
That
load
could
be
interrupted
if
it
were
needed
to
be
so
again.
Just
the
partnership,
I
think
worked
very
well
there
and
then,
as
far
as
I
just
stress
that
tva's
initial
form
of
power
production
was
the
ultimate
renewable
in
Hydra
right
and
then
we
grew
into
coal
into
gas,
into
nuclear
and
into
Renewables
and
ultimately
going
forward.
It
will
take
each
and
every
one
of
those
pieces.
M
A
balanced
portfolio
is
definitely
the
best
and
most
resilient
way
to
address
all
the
different
economic
and
reliability
drivers,
as
we
run
the
system
and
make
the
most
prudent
Investments
for
the
long
term,
so
I'll
Echo.
What
Aaron
Mr
meld
is
already
sad.
Is
that
so,
as
we
go
forward,
we
will
balance
reliability,
resilience,
affordability
and
sustainability,
not
only
to
ensure
that
the
power
remains
on
today,
but
that
it
remains
on
to
to
Spur
and
to
enable
growth
within
Kentucky
and
throughout
the
valley.
So
it's
our
pleasure
to
be
here,
and
we
appreciate
it.
A
Thank
you,
gentlemen,
and
let
me
say
that
there's
no
question
a
lot
of
people
in
this
country
have
power
in
rural
areas,
because
of
TVA
and
and
because
so
many
other
independent
folks
would
not
have
built
there
because
of
the
rate
of
return,
and
so
you've
done
a
great
work.
A
I
just
hope
that
you
get
back
to
your
mission
statement,
I
mean
when
we
look
at
the
fact
that
since
2009
and
that's
pretty
much
the
start
of
the
Obama
Administration
in
this
in
this
country,
we've
closed
over
300
co-fired
power
plant
or
about
40
percent
of
the
of
the
coal
fired
generation
and
we're
looking
to
close
an
additional
50
percent
or
so
between
now
and
2040
I.
Don't
consider
10
coal
as
a
balance.
I
really
don't,
and
that's
certainly
also
don't
see
coal
as
strictly
a
a
backup
power
or
a
peaking
power.
A
Because
it's
something
designed
to
run.
You
know
24
7,
8,
9
5
90
capacity,
so
it
has
to
have
a
much
bigger
percentage
than
that,
and
so
I
think
that
what
this
nation
is
doing
is
unsustainable
and
and
I
do
feel
that
there
was
a
time
after
night
2009.
The
tva's
mission
seemed
to
change
to
implement
the
Obama's,
clean
power
plant
and
I
I.
Just
think.
That's
exactly
what
happened.
I
think
the
proof
said
the
pudding,
but
that
wasn't
y'all's
decisions
you're
much
too
young
to
have
been
part
of
that.
So
I
do.
A
Next,
we're
going
to
hear
from
LG,
dku
and
Lonnie
Miller
and
and
your
this
other
gentleman,
that's
with
you
having
introduced
himself
he's
been
seen
around
the
capitol
a
couple
of
times.
Thank.
E
You
chairman
I'm
David
frybert,
with
LG
e
and
KU
and
yeah
for
you
and
committee
members.
We
do
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
give
you
our
look
back.
First,
look
back
on
the
events
and
and
the
challenges
and
the
the
things
we've
undertaken
and
I
have
to
my
left,
Lonnie
Beller,
who
is
our
chief
operating
officer
in
for
time,
I'll
just
ask
Lonnie
to
start
what
he's
going
to
share
with.
V
V
First
time
in
their
history,
we've
had
to
do
that
and
although
it
did
affect
a
relatively
small
percentage
of
our
customers,
we
share
share
Gooch's
sentiment
that
this
should
never
happen
again
and
most
definitely
shouldn't
be
something
that
occurs
on
a
routine
basis.
So
if
we
jump
right
into
the
presentation,
I
thought
I'd
start
off
just
talking
about
how
we
think
about
planning
and
looking
and
at
our
system
and
how
we
plan
for
our
system.
V
I
won't
go
through
all
the
components
you
can
see
the
slides
you
can
have
the
slides,
but
you
start
off
with
the
planning
to
do
in
advance
right
what
you
do:
5
10
15
20
years
in
advance
of
these
events,
then
you
talk
about
your
fuel
supply.
Those
are
long-term
decisions.
Also
what
type
of
fuel
contracts
do
we
enter
into?
We
want
some
fuel
diversity
right.
We
want
on-site
inventory,
we've
heard
a
lot
about
that.
Where
are
you
getting
that
fuel
from?
Is
there
diversity
there
and
if
we're
transporting
that
fuel
is
it?
V
Is
it
diversity
in
that
transport?
Are
we
too
dependent
upon
One
Transport
path,
whether
it
be
gas
or
coal?
Do
we
have
that
gas
transportation
that
Texas
Gas
talked
about?
Do
we
have
the
storage
necessary
and
then
we
think
about
our
plant
operations?
You
can
read
those
comments
there.
How
are
we
maintaining
that
plan?
Is
that
plant
going
to
be
ready?
We've
heard
a
lot
of
comments
today,
this
it
was
cold,
but
it's
been
colder
right,
I
always
say
in
my
career
36
years,
I've
seen
minus
22
degrees
and
plus
105
degrees.
V
So
you
you
have
to
be
ready
for
everything
in
Kentucky,
and
that
is
what
we
work
hard
to
do
every
day
so
again,
moving
quickly,
were
we
ready
for
the
storm?
We
were
ready
for
the
storm.
We
did
all
the
things
that
were
on
the
prior
page.
We
managed
our
assets,
we
think
very
aggressively
ready
for
the
event
you
can
see
here.
We
implemented
our
cold
weather
operation
plans
that
we
have
across
our
Fleet
coal-fired
and
gas
fire
plants.
V
We
bought
the
right
gas,
we
brought
the
right
coal
and
we
brought
our
units
online
and
kept
them
running
before
the
cold
weather
got
here.
While
it
was
a
cold
weather
event,
the
forecast
showed
that
it
was
going
to
get
cold
and
it
was
going
to
get
cold
quickly.
So
we
managed
through
that
and
briefly,
when
we
were
setting
on
the
morning
of
12
23,
we
knew
it
was
cold.
It
was
minus
five
minus
eight
degrees.
Through
our
service
territory.
We
were
sitting
there
thinking
we
would
have
25
percent
more
generation
than
we
had
load.
V
That's
what
our
thoughts
were
at
the
beginning,
beginning
of
that
day,
and
we
have
an
obligation
to
serve
the
million
customers
that
depend
on
us
every
day
for
energy.
We
also
have
an
obligation
to
the
grid.
That's
been
mentioned
here
today.
If
there
are
challenges
in
our
area
to
meeting
load,
we
can't
just
take
power
from
the
grid
that
we
didn't
pay
for
because
it
represents
a
regional
stability
issue.
V
So
I'll
jump
right
into
what
happened
here
again
to
move
quickly.
This
is
a
bit
of
a
complicated
graph,
but
this
on
the
time
and
the
bottom
starts
out
at
5
30
in
the
morning
on
12
23
and
goes
to
11
p.m.
On
that
date
and
I
will
cut
to
the
Chase
and
give
you
the
answer.
Our
load
here
is
the
blue
line
that
you
can
see
running
through
the
the
middle
of
the
graph.
That
was
our
load.
V
That's
what
our
customers
used
on
our
system,
if
it
weren't
for
the
Texas
gas
pressure
issue
that
Texas
Gas
spoke
to,
we
would
have
had
generation
that
represent
is
represented
by
that
dotted
dash
line
at
the
very
top
of
the
graph,
the
net
generation,
including
lost
Generations
from
Texas
gas
supply.
So
we
wouldn't
be
sitting
here.
Having
that
conversation,
if
we
had
the
pressure
again,
the
gas
was
there
as
we've
discussed,
but
we
did
not
have
the
pressure
to
run
our
generating
units.
V
I
will
say
we
operated
our
local
Distribution
Company
in
Louisville
served
350
000
customers
with
gas
that
day,
so
that's
proof
that
the
molecules
were
there.
The
commodity
gas
was
there,
but
when
you
it
comes
to
generating
units,
you
have
to
have
the
pressure,
in
addition
to
the
molecules
and
the
pressure
just
wasn't
there
and
it's
the
graphic
here
shows
we
lost
900
megawatts
of
generation.
When
we
went
into
the
event
that
number
was
about
850,
it
grew
to
950
and
then
curtailed
throughout
the
day.
V
In
terms
of
the
interruptions
we
did
have
that's
represented
at
scale
on
the
the
right
Axis
and
we
had
to
shed
load
in
the
order
of
317
megawatts
relatively
small
percentage
of
our
customer
base,
roughly
less
than
five
percent
and
the
bulk
of
those
interruptions
lasted
around
an
hour
and
a
half
the
whole
event
from
the
start
to
the
very
single
last
customer
came
online,
lasted
four
hours
and
13
minutes,
but
the
bulk
of
the
interruptions
were
in
that
first
hour
and
a
half
and
so
again
to
move
quickly
summarizing
again
we
had
a
low
gas
pressure
event
in
our
trenal
County
turbines.
V
We've
been
operating
those
since
2002
not
had
an
issue.
We
had
that
same
issue
at
our
Cane
Run
combined
cycle
gas
plant.
We
combined
in
those
two
plants
we
have
about
1900
megawatts
and
I
just
stated
about
half
of
that
was
unavailable
so
that
just
to
be
clear,
the
machines
were
there,
they
were
running.
All
we
had
to
do
is
effectively
turn
them
up.
V
If
we
had
the
pressure-
and
we
are
working
closely
with
Texas
guests-
that
we've
been
a
customer
there's
on
the
LDC
for
many
many
years
and
since
2002
on
the
generating
side
and
we're
not
resting.
Even
though
we
didn't
have
significant
cold
weather
issues
at
our
plants,
we're
doing
the
same
thing
that
TVA
did
and
every
event
we
go
through.
We
look
at
what
we
could
do
better
and
how
we
could
serve
our
customers
better.
V
So
that
was
a
really
quick
run
through,
but
I
wanted
to
go
quickly
in
respect
of
everybody's
time
and
allow
times
for
questions.
Okay,
Senator,
Mills,.
H
A
H
Gentlemen,
I'm
up
here,
I
appreciate
the
presentation.
Can
you
speak
to
the
closures
that
you've
submitted
to
PSC
is?
Is
that
correct
that
you've,
you
have
a
plant
or
two
that's
possibly
being
closed?
Yes,.
V
Yes,
we
have
it
filing
with
the
Public
Service
Commission
and
due
to
environmental
regulations,
as
we've
talked
about
here
today
and
aging
plant,
we
do
have
one
plant
that
is
getting
significantly
near
the
end
of
its
useful
life.
We
would
plan
to
close
one
unit
at
our
ew
Brown
plant,
which
would
be
the
last
coal
unit
remaining
there
in
Mercer
County,
and
we
would
close
two
units
at
our
Mill
Creek
Plant,
which
is
in
Jefferson
County
and
then
one
unit
in
jent
and
near
Carrollton,
at
our
gent
station.
H
Just
follow
up:
are
there
any?
Are
there
any
incentives
like
Renewables
get
from
the
federal
government?
Are
there
any
incentives
that
would
allow
you
to
rehab
a
plant
like
the
one
that
you're
thinking
about
closing
down?
That
would
help
keep
that
online
for
10
or
20
years?
Is
there
any
possibility
of
keeping
those
online
financially
to
start
with.
V
Well,
in
terms
of
incentives,
I'm
unaware
of
any
incentives
to
continue
operating
coal
that
are
provided
by
the
government
as
we've
talked
about,
there
are
incentives
on
the
renewable
side
in
terms
of
what's
financially
viable,
our
filing
lays
out
in
in
excruciating
detail.
What
we
believe
is
the
right
mix
of
resources.
How
we
best
can
comply
with
those
environmental
regulations
and
serve
our
customers
at
the
lowest
cost.
H
So
it's
it's
a
it's.
A
regulatory
like
we've
said
all
all
today:
it's
a
regulatory
environment
and
not
a
financial
environment.
In
the
past,
we've
asked
questions
of
utilities,
power
power
plants.
If
they
could
stay
on
and
we
would
we
would
get
the
answer.
You
know
it's
just
too
expensive
to
to
keep
burning
coal.
The
truth
is:
is
that
there's
too
much
regulatory
problems
too
many
federal
regulations
that
keep
that
from
happening?
It's
not
a
financial
issue.
Is
that
correct
the.
V
Regulatory
constraints
turn
into
a
financial
implication
is
the
way
to
look
at
it.
They
do
require
retrofits
additional
new
equipment
on
units
and
that
adds
to
the
expense
of
operating
co-planet.
H
And
then,
finally,
what
is
the
what
would
be
the
mix
to
replace
these
power
plants
when
you
take
them
offline?
What
will
be
the
30-year
plan
to
replace
those.
V
So
our
current
plan
to
replace
the
capacity
if
you
want
to
think
about
that
way,
would
be
two
new
combined
cycle
units,
one
at
our
ew
Brown
plant,
where
the
coal
unit
is
being
retired
in
one
at
our
Mill
Creek
Station.
We
also
would
be
looking
to
add
solar.
That
would
not
be
for
capacity.
It
would
be
more
to
manage
price
risk
that
we
have
in
cost
of
fuel,
whether
that
be
natural,
gas
or
coal,
and
then
we're
also
asking
to
learn
more
about
Battery
Technology,
a
battery
planet
or
ew
Brown
plant
do.
H
You
know
if
batteries
have
trouble
with
with
bad
weather,
can
batteries
freeze
up.
V
Most
definitely
we
have
been
running
a
test
at
our
ew
brown,
with
a
relatively
small
battery.
It's
a
large
battery,
but
in
utility
sense
relatively
small.
So
we
have
lots
of
data
on
the
degradation
that
we
see
during
the
coal
and
the
requirement
to
keep
the
batteries
heated
so
that
they
will
produce
energy.
They
do.
A
You
know
I,
think
that
you've
heard
enough
from
the
committee
to
realize
that
most
people
own
the
committee
and
not
everyone-
obviously,
but
probably
a
majority
of
the
committee-
are
going
to
be
hard
to
be
convinced
that
part
of
the
reasons
that
we
had
the
shortages
is
because
of
the
retirement
of
coal-fired
power
plants.
I
mean
it's
just
not
gonna,
nothing
you're
going
to
say
is
going
to
convince
us.
A
Otherwise,
you
know
this
closure
was
just
two
weeks
before
the
announcement
of
the
ew
Brown
The
Mill
Creek
Station,
that's
about
2,
000,
megawatts
of
power.
I.
Think
we're
really
concerned
is
that
if
we
couldn't
meet
the
demand
now
we
see
this
huge
shift
that
everyone's
talking
about
to
electric
vehicles
and
everything
I've
seen
is
that
we
we're
going
to
require
it
probably
30
percent,
more
generation
and
30
percent,
more
infrastructure
of
transmission
or
whatever.
A
V
And
that
is
something
that
we
look
at
constantly
is:
what
is
that
pace
of
change
that
we
expect
to
see?
We
know
with
electric
vehicles
coming
on
the
system,
that's
nighttime
load,
but
it
is
energy.
It's
base
load,
energy.
It
comes
at
the
night
time
when
solar
won't
be
there,
and
so
we
factor
that
into
our
forecasts
and
and
update
those
constantly.
It's
a
challenge
that
we
know
we
need
to
be
prepared
to
meet.
A
Well,
I
think
that
I'm
going
to
speak
for
myself
here,
not
not
the
committee,
but
I-
am
really
concerned
about
utilities
being
able
to
announce
a
closure
of
one
particular
fuel
source.
Specifically
we're
talking
about
coal
and.
A
When
we
look
at
what
are
you
replacing
that
with
you
know,
you
cannot
replace
base
load
24-hour
a
day
seven
days
a
week?
85
percent
capacity
was
something
that's
intermittent
at
17
percent
and
and
I
I.
If
there's
anything
that
just
general
assembly
can
do
to
make
sure
that
before
the
Public
Service
Commission
approves
that
type
of
switch
where
you're
switching
that's
what's
been
happening,
we're
switching
fuels
from
one
particular
Source
to
another.
I
think
we.
V
Yes,
I
I,
agree
and,
and
that's
why
our
plan
does
have
base
load
capacity
to
to
balance
that
out,
and
we
do
a
lot
of
work
to
ensure
that
that
system
will
be
robust
going
forward
and
meet.
Those
demands.
S
V
Yeah,
that
would
be
a
significant
event.
We
would
lose
Gas
Service
to
our
power
plants,
which
would
impact
our
ability
to
generate
electricity
and
in
our
system
we
would
lose
gas
to
the
bulk
of
our
gas
customers
on
the
local,
Distribution,
Company,
and
so
I
can't
really
give
you
an
estimate
how
long
it
obviously
depends
on
how
much
customers
are
using
at
that
time.
We
still
have
5
000
megawatts
of
cold
capacity
operating
on
our
system
today.
V
So
if
we
had
a
gas
Interruption
on
the
electric
side
and
demand
were
below
that
level
or
if
it
were
above
that
level,
if
we
could
purchase
power
from
our
neighbors,
we
could
retain
the
system
reliability.
So
it's
very
specific
to
the
situation
as
to
how
long
we
could,
in
your
words,
you
know
withstand
that
type
of
event.
S
Well,
based
that
question,
I
was
in
standing
in
Louisville
one
time
and
going
in
and
the
building
started
shaking
and
it
was
a
small
earthquake.
So
if
we
got
an
earthquake
going
south,
it
took
out
hundreds
of
miles
of
the
gas
line
that
shut
down
for
weeks
or
months.
Could
you
tell
us
what
that
would
do
to
your
industry
to
be
able
to
produce
electricity?
If
you
tear
down
all
the
coal
plants,
you
talk
about
you're,
going
to
do
yeah.
V
S
V
We
work
with
Transportation
safety
administration
on
security
of
the
pipeline
system.
That
is
the
federal
agency
in
charge
of
that.
So
that
would
be
the
extent
of
of
our
working
with
them
to
ensure
that
as
safe
as
our
pipeline
infrastructure
can
be
is
what
we
end
up
with.
A
There
there
are
all
types
of
threats
out
there:
cyber
security,
those
impulse
impulses.
What
do
you
call
those
emps
that
could
take
out
our
you
know?
A
lot
of
you
know
power
as
well
as
other
things
and
I
know.
You
can't
really
plan
for
everything,
but
I
think
what
we're
reason
for
having
this
meeting
is
that
we
have
seen
that
we've
had
a
shift
in
recent
years
to
different
types
of
fuel,
specifically
fuel,
shifting
and
and
and
that
has
caused
rates
to
go
up.
A
That's
cause
reliability
concerns
and
we
felt
like
this
meeting
was
timely
because
of
an
event
that
happened
that
we
had
never
seen
in
Kentucky
before,
and
you
know,
the
purpose
of
this
meeting
was
to
to
ask
you
folks
to
come
in
and
kind
of
explain
what
happened
and
and
what
you
plan
to
do
to
make
sure
that
doesn't
happen
again
and
and
we're
here
to
to
tell
you
that
you
know
anything
that
this
General
Assembly
can
do
to
make
sure
that
it
doesn't
happen
as
if
it's
because
of
Regulation
representative
Williams.
P
W
I'm
sorry
I
had
to
step
out
for
a
little
bit
but
I'm
concerned.
I
know
you
have
a
gigawatt
facility
at
gent
up
there,
and
somebody
said,
while
I
was
out
that
you
had
said
if
we're
going
to
be
out
of
coal
plants,
but
we
have
a
power
in
the
near
future
or
what
I
think
is
the
near
future.
There's
a
lot
of
heavy
industries
that
depend
upon
that
gig.
What
are
your
plans
for
that
plan?.
H
V
There
are
four
units
at
the
Gent
station,
roughly
the
all
the
same
size,
500
megawatts
each
and
we
would
plan
to
retire
one
of
those
four
coal
units
that,
due
to
an
environmental
regulation,
the
other
three
units
have
a
pollution
piece
of
pollution
control
equipment,
we've
already
invested
in
in
the
past,
and
that
unit
does
not.
And
so
we
would
retire
that
in
the
2027-2028
time
frame
and
then
on
our
interconnected
system.
V
As
I
mentioned
before,
we
would
add
two
new
base
load
units,
one
in
our
ew
Brown
station,
which
is
south
of
Lexington
and
Mercer
County,
and
then
one
in
Jefferson
County
at
our
Mill
Creek
Station
and
with
our
transmission
system.
We'll
still
be
able
to
provide
that
industry
along
that
42
Corridor,
which
we're
very
much
aware,
are
strong
users
of
electricity,
and
they
also
need
that
strong
source
of
electricity
physically
close,
and
we
fully
appreciate.
W
V
We
Nas
is
are
currently
our
largest
customer
I,
say
that,
because
Ford
will
take
that
over
in
the
next
few
years
at
the
the
facility
in
Hardin
County.
But
they
are
our
largest
customer
and
we
coordinate
closely
with
them.
So.
W
Obviously,
I'm
a
bit
skeptical
that
if
you
even
take
out
one
of
those
plants
that
that
really
is
serving
Kentucky
and
the
customers
well,
I
would
like
to
look
at
what
it
would
take
to
investment
that
we
keep
that
unit
open
and
provide
that
and
bring
these
other
plants
online,
because
we
need
more
power
overall
in
Kentucky,
we
don't
need
to
be
taking
that
one
plant
out
that's
going
to
be
used
right
there
and
bring
in
power
from
other
places
in
Kentucky.
So
that's
my
concern.
A
Yeah,
let
me
let
me
say
that
in
in
round
2000,
the
plans
were
all
showing
that
we
were
probably
looking
at
100
building
150
new
coal-fired
power
plants
in
this
country.
Now
now
we
know
that
what
happened
was
the
recession
in
2008
or
whatever
demand
went
down
and
almost
none
of
those
were
built,
but
not
only
they
would
not
build
those
plants.
We've
already
closed
down.
A
40
percent
of
our
cold
Fleet
with
plants
to
shut
down
another
50
percent
by
2040
to
the
point
where
we're
not
going
to
have
you
know
hardly
any
coal
and
that's
that's
that's
people's
goals,
but
everyone
that
I'm
seeing
is
saying
that
you
know
we
can't
replace
it
with
what
we're
trying
to
replace
it
with
it
doesn't
work
except
in
someone's
mind,
I
mean
it's
fantasy
and
I'm
really
concerned.
A
When
you
have
a
president
that
just
said
that
climate
change
was
the
biggest
existential
threat
to
our
planet
into
Humanity,
probably
even
more
than
the
nuclear
weapons
I
mean.
That
is
the
type
of
lunacy
that
I
don't
I.
Don't
that
person
doesn't
need
to
be
making
policy
decisions
for
this
country
so
especially
someone
who
can't
recognize
and
distinguish
between
the
Salvation
Army
and
the
Secret
Service,
so
just
just
Senator
Smith.
Do
you
have
any
yeah.
G
I
I
mean
we'll
wrap
up.
I
know
this
thing
has
gone
long
and
we
appreciate
everyone's
patience.
I
just
have
a
couple
quick
questions.
A
fluidized
bed
I've
heard
some
conversation
here
today
about
what
can
and
cannot
be.
You
know
used
whether
you
could
switch
from
coal
to
other
forms
of
of
fuel
sources,
but
my
understanding
is:
that's.
That's
not
that
big
of
a
deal
I
mean
can't
you
you
could
put
lignite
and
a
fluid
eye
is
bad
if
I'm
not
mistaken
or
even
a
combined
cycle.
G
If
you
wanted
to
I
mean
so
I,
don't
think
that's
a
complete
I,
don't
want
to
say
dishonest,
but
these
new
technologies
are
designed
to
shift
between
fuels
relatively
quickly
for
the
exact
purpose
we're
talking
about
so
that
if
you
needed
to
go
from
one
to
the
next
that
that
new
technology
is
there,
so
it
wouldn't
be
a
big
deal
to
switch
from
coal
to
another
fuel
source
like
what
was
said
earlier.
Is
that
correct.
G
Right
at
that
point,
it
comes
down
to
the
Federal
Regulation
telling
you,
which
gets
my
second
Point
make
this
quick
you're
looking
at
closing
down
this
this
other
unit
that
you've
got
not
because
that
it's
not
effective,
but
you
were
saying
because
you're
having
environmental
issue
with
it,
so
the
federal
government's
gonna
they're
gonna
give
you
guys
to
take
you
to
Woodshed.
G
If
you
don't
get
this
thing
closed
relatively
soon,
a
better
fact,
if
you
close
it
earlier
they'll
reward,
you
is
that
not
correct
you'll
get
some
incentives
there
and
you're
going
to
pay
for
every
kilowatt
or
megawatt.
You
generate
out
of
there.
After
a
certain
point,
if
you
don't
close,
it
is
that
the
truth.
V
With
respect
to
the
rule
that's
affecting
some
of
our
plant,
we
won't
be
able
to
operate
it.
Actually,
it
will
go
from,
as
you
just
stated,
a
penalty
if
you
will
not
having
enough
allowances
to
cover
the
emissions
to
a
rule
that
says
you
cannot
operate
unless
you're
below
a
certain
emissions
level
and
without
new
pollution
control
equipment.
We
couldn't
even
operate
the
unit
and.
G
G
Another
branch
of
the
federal
government
you're
going
to
do
pretty
much
what
they
tell
you
to
do
or
they're
going
to
punish
you
to
the
point
that
there's
no
more
your
your
investors
are
not
going
to
be
there.
You
kind
of
have
to
dance
to
the
tune
of
that.
So
I
want
our
members
to
understand
a
lot
of
these
decisions
that
are
made
have
nothing
to
do
with
the
price.
G
To
call
the
efficiency
of
the
effectiveness
of
their
reliability
has
got
to
do
with
the
fact
that
you'll
get
punished
if
you
don't
and
reward
it.
If
you're
able
to
close
these
things
earlier,
because
we
have
a
misguided
federal
policy,
that's
failing
California
Texas,
all
across
the
place.
At
a
time
when
you
talk
about
a
threat,
a
federal
threat,
I'm
more
worried
about
the
federal
government.
G
Closing
down
the
utilities
and
I
am
a
terrorist
I
mean
we've
got
more
concerns
out
there
that
are
legit
than
what
we're
dealing
with
and
Germany
and
France
and
Great
Britain
and
the
other
countries
out.
There
are
doubling
down
on
this
technology
because
they
understand
that
being
energy,
poor
and
the
next
decade
will
destroy
your
economy
in
a
way
we've
never
seen
before.
So
that's
just
my
two
cents,
I!
Don't
want
you
all
to
leave.
Thinking
we're
giving
you
a
spanking
I!
G
Think
you
should
leave
this
plan
open
and
I
think
you
should
leave
it
open
because
we
just
got
a
glimpse
of.
What's
going
to
happen
without
having
something
that
with
everything
else
fails
you
will
be
able
to
that
plant
will
run
now,
the
the
they
may
get
regulated
and
you
can
do
a
lot
of
stuff
out
there,
but
if
a
hospital
had
to
have
it,
you
know
that
plant's
going
to
provide
it
so
I
think
there
has
to
be
something
weighted
in
the
scale
of
what
we
know
actually
works.
G
You
could
put
six
months
to
a
year
to
three
years
of
product
on
that
lot
at
that
site
and
know
exactly
you
have
fuel
every
single
day,
like
representative
fugit,
said
about
his
Pap
off
shoveling
that
stoker
coal
in
there,
but
what's
important,
is
that
we
deserve
that
our
hospitals
and
our
families
and
people
here
that
have
worked
in
this
industry.
Our
whole
life
deserve
that
kind
of
reliability
and
affordability,
but
I
just
don't
want
you
guys
to
think
we're
hammering
you.
We
know
that
you're
getting
hit
from
both
sides,
but
hopefully
on
this.
G
If
we
can
help,
you
all
do
what
happened
to
us
in
Eastern
Kentucky
when
they
closed
Big
Sandy
down
now
we're
paying
this
rider
for
the
rest
of
our
life
for
something
that
right
now,
I
bet
they
wish
they
had
that
power
right
to
get
it
down.
But
anyhow,
we
don't
want
to
see
you
guys
make
the
same
mistake
that
happened
to
us
in
Eastern
Kentucky.
Thank
thank
you.
Mr.
A
X
Right
just
briefly,
Mr
chairman
and
this
kind
of
piggybacks
a
little
bit
on
Senator
Smith's
questions.
I
mean
to
what
extent
are
your
revenue
streams
based
upon
direct
subsidies
for
these
types
of
renewable
energies
from
the
federal
government?
I
mean?
Is
that
a
part
of
your
bottom
line
that
you
factor
into
these
types
of
decisions.
V
You
know
currently
nine
we
have
very
root
a
few
Renewables
and
in
the
future
we
will
take
advantage
of
the
tax
credits.
I
think
is
what
you're
you're
speaking
to
whether
they
come
into
form
of
what
we
call
a
production,
tax
credit
or
invest
investment
taxes.
X
Right
you're
going
to
be
replacing
I,
guess,
units
and
and
jobs
in
your
bottom
line,
with
tax
credits
that
I
guess
we're
all
going
to
have
to
pay
for.
On
top
of
our
power
bills,.
V
X
A
A
Okay
committee
members,
there
are
some
proposed
regulations:
administrative
regs,
from
Fish
and
Wildlife
they're
on
here
they're.
They
require
no
action
of
this
committee.
But
if
someone
has
a
question
about
one
I'm
more
than
happy
to
get.
A
Okay,
all
right,
thank
you.
The
Motions
adjourned.