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From YouTube: 2023 House Impeachment Committee (2-2-23)
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A
C
A
So
this
morning,
we're
pleased
to
have
with
us
three
Commonwealth's
attorneys
from
across
the
state
The
Honorable
Brian
Wright,
who
is
the
Commonwealth's
Attorney
for
the
29th
Judicial
Circuit
and
a
constituent
of
mine,
I'm
glad
to
see
him
here
and
thank
him
for
his
service
The
Honorable
Rob,
Sanders,
Commonwealth's
Attorney
for
the
16th
judicial
circuit
and
The
Honorable
Jackie
Steele,
Commonwealth's
Attorney
for
the
27th
judicial
circuit.
If
you
three
would
come
forward,
please
to
the
table.
A
So
each
of
you
would
Raise
Your
Right
hands.
Do
you
solemnly
swear
affirm
that
the
testimony
you're
about
to
give
in
the
matter
the
impeachment
of
Ronnie
goalie
shall
be
the
truth,
the
whole
truth
and
nothing
but
the
truth.
Thank
you
so
much.
If
each
of
you
would
introduce
yourselves
for
the
record
and
then
I
think
it'd
be
appropriate
for
each
of
you
to
give
an
opening
statement
about
your
background,
your
your
time
as
a
Commonwealth
Attorney
and
familiarize
yourself
with
the
committee
a
little
bit
if
you're,
if
you're
willing
to
do
that.
D
Good
morning,
Mr
chairman,
my
name
is
Rob
Sanders
I'm,
the
Commonwealth's
Attorney
for
the
16th
Judicial
Circuit
of
Kentucky,
which
is
Kenton
County
I,
have
been
the
Commonwealth's
Attorney.
Since
my
election
in
2006
took
office,
January
of
2007
Kenton
County
in
the
16th
circuit
is
Kentucky's
third
largest
Circuit
by
population.
We
are
the
second
busiest
Circuit
by
indictment
numbers
for
those
of
you
not
familiar
with
Kenton
County
we're
right
across
the
river
from
Cincinnati
Ohio.
So
we
are
a
major
metropolitan
area
that
gets
real
real
rural
real
fast
as
you
head
south
of
I-275.
E
Good
morning,
chairman
alien
I
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
be
here:
I'm
Brian,
Wright,
I'm,
commless
attorney
for
the
29th
Judicial
Circuit,
which
includes
Adair
in
Casey
counties.
I
started
Prosecuting
in
1998.
As
an
assistant,
Commonwealth's
Attorney
became
a
Commonwealth's
Attorney
elected
in
2002
spent
about
a
little
over
three
and
a
half
years,
or
so
in
private
practice,
from
13
to
early
17
and
resumed
as
Commonwealth's
Attorney
in
March
of
17
by
appointment.
E
So
I've
now
spent
about
20
years
as
a
felony
prosecutor
in
casein,
Adair
County
have
been
special
prosecutor
in
several
counties
throughout
the
state.
We
are
more
of
a
rural
District
as
chairman.
Elliot
is
very
familiar
with
air,
with
our
area
of
the
state,
but
deal
with
all
sorts
of
crimes,
everything
from
from
drug
crimes
that
everybody
deals
with
to
homicize
and
everything
in
between
so
honored
to
be
here
unfortunate
circumstances,
but
but
but
happy
to
to
come
at
the
invitation.
Chairman
Elliott.
Thank
you.
F
Good
morning
chairman,
thank
you
again
for
having
us
here
this
morning.
My
name
is
Jackie
Steele
I'm,
the
Commonwealth
Attorney
for
the
27th
judicial
circuit,
which
is
Laurel
in
Knox
County
Kentucky,
and
to
give
you
some
reference
I'm
about
an
hour
south
of
the
Lexington
right
on
I-75,
which
is
Laurel,
County,
Knox
County,
just
off
the
side
of
that
I'm
about
35
miles
north
of
the
Tennessee
line
on
I-75.
F
I'm
I
would
consider
myself
a
rural
jurisdiction
also
about
a
hundred
thousand
people
between
both
those
counties,
not
as
real
as
Brian
is,
but
definitely
not
as
Metropolitan
as
Rob
is
in
Kenton
County
I've
been
a
prosecutor
since
April
1st
2003.
As
an
assistant
common
attorney,
I
became
the
Commonwealth
Attorney
by
appointment
by
governor
beshear
in
June
of
2008
I've
been
the
elected
home
attorney
since
that
time.
So
I'm,
just
literally
a
couple
days
less
than
two
months
away
from
my
20
years
as
a
felony
prosecutor
to
come
with
Kentucky
thanks.
D
Travis
Mr,
chairman
I,
think
it's
worth
noting
as
well
that
the
three
of
us
are
also
three
of
the
five
elected
members
are
common
with
attorney
representatives
of
the
prosecutor's
advisory
Council
currently
and
at
one
point
or
another,
each
one
of
us
has
served
as
president
of
the
Commonwealth
attorneys,
Association
and
I
currently
serve.
As
the
co-chairman
of
our
legislative
committee
on
the
Commonwealth
attorneys,
Association
and
Brian
is
our
immediate
past
president.
A
Well,
thank
you
very
much
and
I
know.
Gentlemen.
Staff
has
sent
to
you
some
documents.
The
resolution
that
was
filed
for
impeachment
against
Mr
Goldie
the
response
that
he
submitted
to
our
committee.
A
Some
observations
that
you
would
have
based
upon
the
review
of
those
materials
directed
to
Mr
Goldie.
If
you
want
to
speak.
Obviously,
hypothetically,
that's
fine,
as
well
as
to
just
some
general
observations
of
what
you
determined
from
your
review
of
those
materials
and
I
know.
That's
very
open-ended
and
very
broad,
but
I
wanted
to
start
broad
before
I
got
narrow,
I
guess.
E
You
know
we
like,
like
a
lot
of
people,
had
read
the
the
excerpts
that
were
published
in
the
local
in
the
in
the
Statewide
newspapers,
some
of
the
news
coverage
that
this
had
generated
a
few
months,
maybe
nine
months
or
a
year
ago.
E
We
we
were
aware
of
some
of
that,
but
we
had
not
seen
the
entirety
of
the
messages
that
that
that
that
this
committee,
shared
with
us
prior
to
today
and
I,
think
you
know
initial
observations
and
we
haven't
had
an
opportunity
to
independently
investigate
any
of
these
things,
so
we're
taking
them.
E
Having
conversation
about
personal
matters,
having
conversation
about
things
that
were
going
on
in
court,
contact
with
judges
contact
with
with
other
attorneys
on
the
person's
behalf,
that
seems
to
be
outside
the
bounds
of
what
we
as
prosecutors,
normally
engage
in
on
a
day-to-day
practice
in
Prosecuting
cases.
That's
what
jumped
out
at
me
at
first,
if
I
can
be
very
general
and
Broad.
F
If
I
may
follow
up
to
that,
Chris
Brown,
but
let
me
say
this
and
we
as
the
common
alternative
Association,
have
very
limited
power,
and
when
we
find
out
about
these
allegations,
we
were
actually
in
the
process
of
amending
our
rules
and
Constitution,
so
that
we
could
expel
members
for
for
conduct
like
this,
and
there
was
another
member
that
was
we.
We
had
been
aware
of
for
some
period
of
time.
So
the
reason
we
was
amending
these
rules,
those
were
amended.
F
Last
summer
we
had
our
our
fall
conference,
our
Statewide
prosecutors
conference
in
August,
of
which
point
in
time
he
was
expelled
from
our
from
our
association,
which
was
really
the
extent
we
could
do.
Based
on
the
messages
we
saw
at
that
point
in
time,
we
even
thought
it
was
appropriate.
I
can
tell
you
that,
after
reviewing
the
messages
and
totality
of
what
you've
sent
us,
nothing
has
changed
my
mind.
In
fact,
it's
only
gotten
worse.
F
I
want
to
go
and
watch
I
want
to
go,
spend
some
money
that
that
to
me
as
a
as
a
prosecutor,
who
has
been
involved
in
the
drug
court
program
in
the
Commonwealth
Kentucky
since
2003
one
of
my
early
jobs
as
an
assistant
was
the
drug
court
prosecutor
and
Laurel
County
has
had
one
of
the
longest
drug
courts,
I
think
the
second
or
third
longest,
stroke
Court
in
the
state
that
to
me
spoke
volumes
that
he
was
not
interested
in.
F
Seeing
a
participant
success,
but
was
interested
in
covering
it
up
for
his
own
gratification.
F
That
Brian
spoke
with
one
thing:
I
just
wanted
to
share
that
with
you
all
that
really
struck
me
as
a
drug
court
prosecutor,
how
wrong
that
is
as
the
Commonwealth
Attorney,
who
would
who
would
be
sending
those
people
and
know
the
conditions
of
Probation
and
the
conditions
of
the
drug
court
just
how
wrong
that
is.
D
This
isn't
about
prosecutors,
not
having
sin
or
not
having
personal
flaws,
but
whatever
personal
flaws.
A
Commonwealth
Attorney
has
cannot
be
intertwined
with
a
Criminal
defendant,
because
a
criminal
defendant
is
never
on
equal
footing.
It's
never
equal
bargaining
power
and
it's
bound
to
be
coercive
and
I.
Think
anyone
who
reads
through
these
text
messages
can
see
the
coercive
nature
of
that
relationship,
and
you
know
on
the
way
to
Frankfurt
this
morning.
D
When
the
prosecutor
has
the
power
to
put
that
person
in
a
cage,
that's
just
it's,
never
a
bargained
for
exchange
that
is
always
going
to
be
wrong.
It's
not
fair!
Quite
frankly,
we
put
Corrections
Officers
in
prison
for
rape,
third
degree
or
sexual
abuse
first
degree
anytime.
They
have
sexual
relations
with
an
inmate,
no
matter
how
willingly
that
inmate
participated.
It's
still
against
the
law
for
a
Corrections
official
to
engage
in
that
kind
of
Conduct.
In
for
up
to
me,
we
would
include
prosecutors,
public
defenders.
A
Well,
thank
you
for
those
comments.
Has
anyone
ever
been
expelled
from
the
Commonwealth
attorneys
Association
before
to.
D
Your
knowledge,
as
Jackie
said
we
had
to
amend
our
our
association's
constitution
to
all,
because
our
original
Constitution
did
not
allow
for
expulsion
of
members
who
embarrassed
the
rest
of
us.
So
I
was
the
one
that
drafted
the
amended
Constitution
to
allow
for
this
to
happen,
but
that
we
can
tell
no
one
has
ever
been
kicked
out
of
the
Kentucky
Commonwealth
attorneys
Association,
because
we
didn't
even
have
a
constitution
that
allowed
for
it.
Unfortunately,
until
now
and
we've
had
to
expel
two.
A
F
They
can't
I
mean
that
one
of
the
requirements
is
common
Alternatives,
that
you
have
to
have
a
have.
A
law
license
and
you've
had
that
up
for
four
years,
and
when
you
take
one
of
the
requirements
that
you
have
a
law
license
you've
passed
a
Kentucky
bar
a
way.
You
cannot
practice
or
be
the
common
alternative.
These
are
not
we're,
not
administrators
I
guess
be
the
best
way.
To
put
it.
We
just
don't
send
people
to
court.
I
can
tell
you
in
Mr
Goldie's
circuit.
He
didn't
just.
F
He
don't
have
an
army
of
attorneys
that
he
sends
the
court
he's
just
making
sure
courts
are
covered.
That's
we
don't
have
that
luxury.
I
can
tell
you
all
three
of
us
are
in
court.
A
lot.
I
have
court
going
on
right
now,
but
I
have
somebody
I
have
an
assistant
covering
for
me,
because
I
have
some
cases
on
that.
I
took
care
of
prior
to
now,
but
I
would
be
in
court.
Otherwise,
and
if
you
don't
have
a
law
license,
you
cannot
be
in
court.
You
cannot
try
cases.
F
D
D
One
of
the
reasons
our
office
is
so
important
and
in
the
highest
ethical
standards
is
so
important
is
because
the
people
that
come
into
that
courtroom
place
a
lot
of
trust
in
what
the
Commonwealth
Attorney
says
and
what
we
represent
and
the
witnesses
that
we
call
and
the
investigations
that
we
bring
into
the
courtroom
and
if
they
can't
trust
you
to
be
honest
and
forthright,
then
you're
never
going
to
prove
anyone
guilty.
Beyond,
A,
Reasonable,
Doubt,
no
matter
what
the
evidence
is.
E
E
There's
just
no
confidence
there
and
and
the
the
analogy
is
even
more
pronounced
when
it's
a
prosecutor,
once
the
Commonwealth
Attorney
representing
the
Commonwealth
of
Kentucky,
representing
that
jurisdiction
representing
the
victims
advising
police
officers,
if
his
license
to
practice
law
is
temporarily
suspended,
I
don't
see
how
he
can
how
any
prosecutor
without
a
law
license
could
effectively
represent
the
legal
capacity
their
jurisdiction,
the
Commonwealth
advise
police
officers
argue
in
front
of
judges.
I
just
don't
see
how
it
could
be
done
effectively
for
anybody.
G
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
I,
guess
for
those
of
us
that
are
not
in
your
all's,
business
and
career,
so
to
speak.
Can
you
put
it
in
perspective
a
little
bit
more?
Basically,
what
y'all
told
is:
is
your
you've
worked
on
your
bylaws
as
far
as
kind
of
policing
yourself,
so
to
speak
a
little
bit
as
far
as
the
expulsions
and
things
like
that?
Is
there
what
I
guess?
What
is
the
structure
in
place?
G
What
are
the
ramifications,
I
guess
for
what
you
all
are
doing
right
now,
whenever
you
say
expel
what
is
that
limit
and
things
like
that
because,
like
right
now,
you
know
as
far
as
what
we're
looking
at
a
lot
of
things
come
down
to
impeachment,
whether
or
not
the
difference
of
what
those
recommendations
may
or
may
not
be
in
the
whether
or
not
that
person
would
be
able
to
run
for
office
again
and
things
like
that,
so
I
guess
as
far
as
the
law
field
as
a
whole,
what
is
the
structure
in
place
to
prevent
these
things
from
happening
going
forward?
G
D
Very
limited
recourse
against
Commonwealth
Attorney,
there
are
57
judicial
circuits
in
Kentucky.
Obviously
we
have
120
counties.
Some
Commonwealth
attorneys
are
responsible
for
more
than
one
County.
The
Commonwealth
attorneys
do
not
report
contrary
to
what
many
in
the
public
believe
or
assume.
We
don't
report
to
anyone
except
the
folks
that
elected
us.
So
we
don't
have
to
answer
to
the
attorney
general.
We
don't
have
to
answer
to
the
governor.
The
only
people
that
we
do
have
to
answer
to
Is
the
prosecutor's
advisory
Council.
D
The
prosecutor's
advisory
council
is
five
Commonwealth
attorneys,
Five
County
attorneys,
two
citizen
members
and
the
Attorney
General.
The
prosecutor's
advisory
Council
has
control
over
every
Prosecutor's
office's
budget
in
Kentucky.
That's
all
the
Commonwealth
attorneys
and
all
the
County
attorneys
the
re
there,
and
that's
it
there's.
No.
We
can't
suspend
people.
We
can't
discipline
people,
we
can't
censor
people,
we
haven't
been
given
that
Authority.
The
only
thing
we
have
been
given
the
authority
to
do
is
set
policies
which
mostly
are
budgetary
and
then
set
the
budget.
D
So
our
the
prosecutor's
advisory
council's
recourse
against
any
individual
Commonwealth
Attorney.
We
can't
even
suspend
their
salary
now
in
Mr.
Goldie's
case
the
prosecutor's
advisory
Council
voted
that
if
he
didn't
voluntarily
give
it
up
that
we
were
going
to
in
essence,
sue
him
for
to
recoup
the
salary
from
the
day.
His
law
license
is
suspended,
arguing
that
he
is
effectively
vacated
his
office
because
he's
not
doing
the
work
that
and
he
since
then
has
agreed
to
forego
his
salary
effective
yesterday.
D
If
we
didn't
seek
the
back
salary
from
the
day
that
he
was
suspended,
other
than
that
our
only
other
recourse
against
him
or
against
any
other
Commonwealth
Attorney
is
what
we
refer
to
as
the
nuclear
option
and
that's
zeroing
out
their
budget.
However,
that
in
and
of
itself
wouldn't
stop
the
common
want
the
Turning
salary.
It
would
only
stop
the
salaries
of
everybody
else
that
works
in
that
office.
The
secretary's
detectives
victim
Advocates
any
other
prosecutors
that
effectively
shuts
down
the
criminal
justice
system
in
any
circuit.
D
D
It
really
wasn't
a
good
option
for
the
citizens
of
the
21st
circuit
and
he's
got
multiple
counties
that
are
that
are
counting
on
his
office
to
keep
the
justice
system
up
and
running
the
Kentucky
Commonwealth
attorneys
Association
was
comprised
of
the
57
Commonwealth
attorneys
until
we
had
to
expel
to
so
now.
Obviously,
we
only
have
55..
D
We
are
a
more
or
less
a
social
organization,
a
lobbying
organization,
to
some
extent
we
try
and
express
to
all
of
you
what
we
think
is
good
policy
or
what
we
think
is
bad
policy
in
order
to
help
you
effectively
legislate,
however,
other
than
that
we
put
on
training
when
we
expel
them.
It's
mostly
symbolic
because
we
want
the
citizens
of
Kentucky,
the
legislature,
the
governor
everybody,
to
know
what
we
think
about
their
misconduct,
but
it
really
doesn't
the
Commonwealth
attorneys
Association
has
no
disciplinary
Authority
whatsoever.
It
is
strictly
symbolic.
D
F
F
F
As
part
of
the
pack,
we
do
set
the
budget.
The
reason
we
can't
I've
had
this
last
reason.
We
can't
suspend
his
pay
because
he's
a
constitutional
officer.
So
that's
why
there
has
to
be
an
impeachment
of
him.
Pat
can't
would
stop
his
salary.
There
has
to
be
actually
impeachment
to
to
stop
that
or
he
agrees
not
to
pay
it.
F
So
it's
actually
a
three-phase
in
this
case
would
be
three-phase
from
the
association
to
the
suspension
of
salary
by
agreement
of
him
and
then
the
impeachment
is
the
only
way
to
get
him
out
of
the
office.
I
do
want
to
mention
one
thing
you
said
impeachment
May
hinder
his
further
ability
to
run
for
office.
The
the
funny
thing
it's
not
funny,
but
the
thing
is
you
got
to
remember.
If
the
election
was
to
date,
the
filing
was
today
to
run
for
Commonwealth
Attorney
he's
not
qualified
to
run.
A
H
H
I
wanted
to
piggyback
a
little
bit
on
what
representative
miles
was
was
asking
you
in
terms
of
impeachment,
and
you
mentioned
his
law
license
and
he's
not
qualified,
not
eligible
for
anything
right
now
in
five
years,
the
suspension
is
up
in
five
years.
Is
that.
H
E
F
If
I,
if
I,
can
read
from
the
supreme
court
order
under
paragraph
three
I
found
this
very
telling
in
regards
to
what
the
Supreme
Court
thought
of
the
conduct,
it's
a
disciplinary
proceedings
because
Mr
Golden
might
be
initiated
by
the
inquiry.
Commission
presenter,
Supreme
Court
rule
3.16
unless
they've
already
begun,
which
which
they
had
or-
and
this
is
the
important
part,
Goldie
resigns
under
terms
of
disbarment.
That
is
not
temporary.
That's
not
for
a
60
months.
That
is
a
disbarment
that
is
a
complete
disappointment.
You're
not
practicing
on
comic.
D
You're
suspended
for
more
than
six
months,
it's
KBs
his
rules,
the
Kentucky
bar
association's
rules
that
you
have
to
go
back
through
the
character
and
fitness
process
that
every
bar
applicant
goes
through
the
first
time
you
apply
for
a
law
license.
So
even
if
his
suspension
were
up,
he
would
still
have
to
pass
character
and
fitness
tests
in
order
to
get
his
law
license
back.
Okay,.
I
This
one's
working-
thank
you
Mr
chairman.
Thank
you,
gentlemen,
for
coming
appreciate
the
work
that
you
do
on
behalf
of
our
good
State.
She
wants
our
path
of
our
citizens
of
Kentucky
across
the
Commonwealth
read
in
section
100
of
our
constitution,
I
think,
there's
an
argument
to
be
made
that
he
can't
he
couldn't
run
if
he
filed
today.
I
would
take
the
other
position,
which
makes
it
more
urgent
that
we
do
move
forward.
I
think
because
all
he
has
to
do
is
be
licensed.
I
If
you're
suspended
you're
still
licensed,
you
can't
go
into
court
and
practice
law,
but
you
do
still
have
your
license
so
so
I
don't
know
how
court
would
resolve
it,
but
I
don't
think
that
the
issue
is
resolved,
and
so
let
me
ask
this
question.
You
know
the
conduct
that
has
alleged
here
against
against
this
gentleman.
I
Do
you
believe
that
it's
sufficient
in
nature
such
that
we
should
move
forward
in
prohibiting
him
if
we
move
forward
and
impeach
and
remove,
but
should
we
add
the
prohibition
that
he
run
for
office
again
in
the
future
that
he
cannot
run
for
office
again
in
the
future?
Do
you
think
this
conduct
Rises
to
that
level.
D
I
do
I
mean
I,
don't
know
if
you're
allowed
to
prohibit
somebody
from
only
running
for
a
certain
office,
but
I
certainly
don't
think
he
should
ever
be
Commonwealth
Attorney
again
and
I
can't
stress
to
you
enough
that
I
don't
take
this
impeachment
lightly.
Nor
do
I
take
publicly
condemning
another
Commonwealth
Attorney
lightly.
I.
Don't
think
any
of
us
do
in
fact
I,
don't
think
anyone
in
the
Commonwealth
attorneys
Association
took
it
lightly
when
we
expelled
him
from
our
association,
but
from
what
I've
observed.
E
Other
gentlemen,
agree:
well,
I
I.
Definitely
don't
disagree
with
that
and
you
know
the
issue
that
I
have
and,
of
course,
we're
operating
under
the
assumption
that
all
of
this
is
is
accurate
at
face
value
for
what
we
have,
what
we've
seen,
but
but
the
issue
that
I
think
we
all
have
and
I
think
all
the
Commonwealth
trains
have
is
that
there's
so
much
and
Jackie
and
and
Miss
Sanders
have
alluded
to
this
there's
so
much
of
what
we
do
every
day
that
is
left
to
the
prosecutor's
discretion.
E
You
know,
there's
a
lot.
You
all
know
the
statutes
that
are
on
the
books
that
require
certain
things,
but
when
it
comes
to
sentencing,
recommendations,
positions
on
probation
decisions
to
revoke
or
avoid
pre-trial
diversion
or
probation
referrals
to
drug
court.
So
much
of
that
falls
within
our
discretion
that
we
have
to
extra
exercise
judicially
and
appropriately
and
what
I
saw
and
when
I
got
these
messages.
You
know
after
chairman,
Elliott
shared
this
with
us
or
the
the
committee.
E
Did
it
just
showed
a
complete
if
true
lack
of
appropriate
discretion
in
decisions
in
requests
in
statements
in
use
of
his
office?
Use
of
his
position,
if
true,
it
seems
to
me
that
there's
a
an
extremely
compromised
exercise
of
his
discretion,
which
doesn't
lend
itself
to
just
being
rehabilitated
or
cured
or
changed
in
the
future.
So
I
agree.
I
F
F
This
is
a
this
is
egregious
from
the
position
we're
in
and
the
trust
the
community
and
the
citizens
give
us
the
actions
of
what
he's
done
and,
and
things
he's
done,
that
we
saw
in
the
messages
they're
egregious
to
the
point
that
I
do
not
think
I
think
that
should
be
a
portion
of
the
impeachment
not
to
run
prophecy.
I
agree
with
that.
D
And
Brian's,
being
very
fair
in
saying
it's
true,
but
I
would
also
point
out
that
a
lot
of
my
opinion
is
not
only
based
upon
what's
in
the
messages,
but
it
is
based
upon
his
explanations
or
lack
thereof
in
front
of
the
Kentucky
bar
association's
hearing
on
whether
or
not
he
should
be
temporarily
suspended,
that
the
three
of
us
routinely
prosecute
a
variety
of
fences
where
suspects
are
being
interrogated
and
they
try
and
tap
dance
around,
not
lying
by
saying
well,
I,
don't
remember
committing
the
crime
and
some
of
these
crimes
that
these
folks
have
been
accused
of,
whether
it's
child,
molesting
or
murder
or
rape.
D
E
Let
me
say
too,
in
the
response
to
this
body
that
I
read
from
Mr
Goldie,
there's
clearly
an
acknowledgment
of
some
relationship
between
him
and
the
female
defendant.
There's
an
acknowledgment
of
giving
her
money,
which,
which
I
find
disturbing,
there's
an
attempt
to
shift
that
that
these
weren't
requests
for
nude
or
naked
images,
because
those
two
specific
words
weren't
used
and
to
me
when
you
read
the
messages
and
the
entirety.
The
context
makes
that
a
very
disingenuous
response
and
and
seems
to
be
avoiding
the
obvious
by
just
saying.
Well,
I,
didn't
use
two
words.
F
It
followed
up
in
regards
to
what
Rob
said.
I'll
give
you
one
example
when
I
when
I
read
his
response,
one
example
of
what
Rob's
talking
about
as
we
read
these
and
what
we
typically
read
through
and
I.
Don't
the
pages
of
his
are
not
numbered
of
his
response,
but
it's
highlighted
June
5th,
2018
images,
12-13
he's
it
says.
For
example,
he
asked
when
do
I
get
to
see
a
video
when
she
replied
when
do
I
not
have
a
warrant.
F
Those
messages
response
was
actually
on
June
15th,
so
he
is
correct.
It
did
not
occur
on
June
the
5th.
Now
whether
that
was
a
typo
or
somebody
omitted
a
one
he's
CR,
that's
what
he
just
said.
No,
no
such
message
occurred.
He
didn't
try
to
explain
the
message
only
that
they
didn't
happen
on
that
didn't
happen
on
the
fifth.
It
did
not
happen
on
the
fifth
thing.
Those
are
the
things
one
of
the
examples
I'm
telling
you
that,
as
we
read
these,
we
see
the
inconsistencies
or
the
tap
dancing
around
the
issue.
J
Attorney
I
want
to
thank
you
all
for
testimony
today
and
for
the
fact
that
I
mean
we
are
in
at
a
time
where
trust
in
public
officials
at
all
and
institutions
is
at
an
all-time
low
and
I
appreciate
as
an
attorney
and
as
an
attorney
who
believes
in
our
judicial
system
that
that
you
are
policing
your
own,
that
is
impressive
and
it
is
and
I.
Thank
you
for
it.
J
One
of
the
things
you
have
said,
and
it's
and
it's
quite
fair
to
say
if
these
are
real,
they
were
produced
by
Mr
Goldie,
it's
much
of
it,
if
not
all
of
it.
So
my
thought
is
I
wanted
to
go
back
to
what
you
said
about
the
disbarment
I'm,
somehow
missed
the
context
of
that.
Could
you
say
that
again.
J
J
F
Was
testimony
and
temporary
suspending
him?
It
basically
says
in
a
paragraphy
that
disciplinary
proceedings
against
goalie
may
be
initiated
initiated
by
the
inquiry,
which
is
it's
part
of
the
requirement
under
the
kba
commission
percent
Supreme
Court
rule
3.16
unless
already
begun,
unless
they've
already
begun
or
Goldie
resigns
under
terms
of
disbarment.
Okay.
Now,
typically,
what
we'll
see
and
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong
but
you'll
see
unless
there
has
been
an
agreement?
F
Otherwise
or
the
parties
have
reached
an
agreement
as
to
that,
and
it
could
be
anything
from
a
public
reprimand,
a
private
reprimand,
a
30-day
suspension.
They
don't
give
that
option
of
of
reaching
a
resolution
other
than
terms
of
disbarment
I
thought
that
was
very
telling
when
I
read
that
supreme
court
order.
J
So
my
question
is
around
that:
what
if
he
doesn't
resign
with
terms
of
disbarment,
then
they
will
go
forward.
J
So
my
question
is,
if
they
don't
just
bar,
is
that
some
indication
that
they
don't
think
it's
of
such
a
an
egregious
nature
that
he
should
never
come
back?
In
other
words,
if
they
suspend
it
to
come
back
after
five
years?
What
we're
thinking
of
and
considering
is
never
coming
back,
never
being
able
to
come
back
as.
F
I
I,
don't
I,
don't
think
it
would
be
a
fair
comparison
because
of
the
bodies,
their
different
purpose
in
regards
to
what
this
body's
purpose
would
be
for
an
impeachment,
and
what
that
body's
or
inquiry
commission
would
be
for
suspension.
G
G
E
Okay,
can
I
ask
one
point
of
clarification.
Representative
Decker,
you
indicated
that
that
all
these
messages
were
produced
by
Mr
Goldie
I
I
want
to
make
sure
that
I'm
on
the
same
page,
there
was
125
PA
printed
printed
pages
of
what
appear
to
be
I.
Think
it's
Facebook,
Messenger
exchanges
between
him
and
another
lady
did
Mr
Goldie
he's
the
one
that
produced
all
125
pages.
B
A
The
inquiry
Commission
reviewed
in
the
in
the
the
special
commissioner
or
the
yeah,
so
so
you
had
all
the
messages.
A
His
response
did
in
fact
include
some
of
those
messages,
but
but
you
received
all
of
all
of
the
messages.
Okay,
just
just
to
clarify
and.
E
G
E
D
D
Now
it
would
be
a
whole
well
I,
shouldn't,
say
a
whole
different
situation.
I'd
still
have
a
lot
of
questions,
because
I
think
that
these,
what's
in
the
text,
messages
corroborates
the
testimony
given
at
the
bar
Council
hearing
that
the
the
woman
who's
involved
in
this.
It
gives
a
lot
of
credibility
to
what
she
said.
It
corroborates
a
lot
of
what
she
said
if
he
had
remained
silent,
but
once
he
starts
explaining
his
explanations.
Just
are
not
good
and
that's
really
what
is
sort
of
the
icing
on
the
cake.
For
me.
E
D
I
mean
if
he
was
asking
for
money
instead
of
a
video
I'm,
pretty
sure
everybody
here
would
agree
that
that
is
blatantly
unethical
and
probably
against
the
law,
definitely
against
the
law.
So
how
is
a
video
that
is
compromising,
to
say
the
least,
something
that
obviously
she
was
hesitant
did
not
want
to
provide,
yet
he
kept
asking
for
it?
How
is
that
any
less
unethical
than
demanding
or
requesting
U.S
currency.
F
I
think
in
just
to
follow
up
on
Mr
Wright
I
think
when
you
he
read
that
his
response
I
think
there's
one
word
that
I
circled
I'm,
not
sure
how
many
times
through
here
one
word
three
letters
of
o.
You
owe
me
which
that's
his
words,
that's
what
he
chose.
Oh
and
we
all
know
what
the
word
you
owe
me
means
I've,
given
you
something.
You
owe
me
something
back
that
word
alone,
when
I
read
that
and
I
was
in
the
first
40
pages,
I
went
holy
moly,
you
know
this.
F
This
is
crazy
and
the
fact
that
he
sends
this
is
his
defense
on
all
honestly.
We've
all
dealt
with
those
defendants
who
don't
think
they've
done
nothing
wrong
and
I.
Think
that
goes
towards
the
not
running
for
further
office
issue
that
you
all
have
to
look
at.
He
still
refuses
to
understand
that
he
has
done
anything
wrong
and
tries
to
defend
it
with
words.
That
obviously
shows
what
he's
doing
was
wrong.
F
So
I
just
want
to
follow
from
that.
May.
G
May-
and
this
is
in
a
different
category,
but
as
far
as
the
communication
of
him,
basically
representing
her
and
not
being
her
attorney
so
to
speak,
then
his
position,
but
yet
acting
as
her
attorney,
I
guess
or
acting
as
a
good
friend
or
whatever
it
may
be.
Does
that
happen
I
mean?
Is
that
something
that's
common?
Is
that
ever
a
correct
category.
E
I
think
the
best
way
I
can
answer
that
is
there
have
been
times
where
I
may
go
into
court
and
say
judge
this
defendant
is
asking
you
for
probation
and
yes
I.
They
have
been
working.
They've
demonstrated.
You
may
speak
up
on
their
behalf,
but
being
an
advocate
the
way
he
was
for
her,
you
I
think
you
were
struggling
with.
The
word
was
he
was
he
representing
her?
Was
he
advising
her?
He
was
certainly
advocating
for
her
that
that's
that's
just
improper.
It's
unheard
of
to
to
Advocate
outside
of
the
Court.
E
It
seemed
to
me
that
he
was
acting
as
a
liaison
between
her
and
and
the
prosecutor.
There
was
a
special
prosecutor
in
that
case
that
appeared
to
be
and
her
attorney
he
was
actually
taking
the
place
of
her
attorney,
which
which
is
unethical
to
to
have
that
type
of
conversation
with
a
represented
defendant.
E
That
has
counsel
that
that
communication
should
have
gone
through
the
council
if
he
was
involved
at
all
and
once
he
asks
for
a
special
prosecutor
and
I,
don't
know
the
circumstances,
but
clearly
he
asked
for
a
special
prosecutor
once
he
did
that
he's
removed
he's
out
of
that
case
and
he
shouldn't
be
interjecting
himself
into
representing
her
advocating
for
her
going
behind
the
courts
back
to
try
to
get
something
done.
That
should
be
left
to
her
attorney
and
the
council
involved.
In
that
case,
I
don't
want
that
answers
the.
B
D
At
the
same
time,
I
think
it's
also
clear
from
the
Kentucky
bar
association's
findings
that
the
request
for
the
special
prosecutor
didn't
come
until
State
Police
observed
text
messages
from
Mr
Goldie
on
the
defendant's
phone,
and
so
the
police
knew
that
he
was
having
personal
Communications
with
one
of
his
criminal
defendants.
Only
then
was
a
special
prosecutor
requested,
so
I,
don't
I
mean
anytime.
I
am
close
enough
to
a
defendant
or
know
a
defendant.
Well
enough
that
anybody
could
accuse
me
of
doing
them.
Favors!
That's
when
I
request
a
special
prosecutor.
B
D
F
The
the
issue
in
regards
to
court-
the
issue
also
is
we
have
I,
can
tell
you
I
myself
me
and
Brian
talk
about
we're
in
a
much
more
rural
jurisdiction
and
it's
not
uncommon
for
us
to
get
a
phone
call
from
a
defendant.
Now,
90
of
the
time
we
we
know
the
name
or
our
office
staff
know
the
name,
and
they
say
you
got
to
talk
to
your
attorney.
Call
your
attorney
call
your
attorney.
If
they
get
through
to
us,
we
get
a
Facebook
message.
We
ignore
it
or
we
call
your
attorney.
F
The
the
issue
with
the
car
was
a
big
issue.
We
dealt
with
about
five
or
six
years
ago,
maybe
seven
years
ago
now,
in
which
these
storage
units
and
I
can
tell
you
the
background,
the
storage
units
were
charging
the
defendants
to
store
their
vehicle
while
the
prosecution
was
ongoing.
Well,
the
possession
of
drug
case
may
be
ongoing
for
eight
or
nine
months
and
they
were
charging
25
a
day.
You
know
it's
a
two
thousand
dollar
car
they're
wanting
eight
thousand
dollars
in
storage
fee,
so
there
is
some
case
law
and
Mr.
F
Goldie
actually
gave
her
the
case
law
and
those
type
of
things
the
when
I've
had
those
come
up
before
after
a
case
is
resolved
after
there's
no
more
representation,
they're
they're
not
represented
by
an
attorney,
and
my
response
is
still
you
need
to
contact
your
attorney.
They
can
file
a
motion
and
and
I'll
agree
to
it.
I
don't
have
a
problem
with
it
and
that's
the
extent
of
my
representation
into
them
that
I'm
going
to
do
anything
else.
F
I
mean
I'm
not
going
to
do
I'm
agreeable
to
it,
but
your
attorney
has
to
be
the
one
to
file
the
motion.
That's
the
appropriate
way
to
handle
those
things
you
don't
advocate
for
them.
You
don't
do
case
law
research
for
them.
You
don't
contact
the
the
person
holding
the
unit
form
you
don't
contact.
The
judge.
Try
to
get
orders
entered
that.
It
was
just
wrong.
C
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman,
and
thank
you,
gentlemen,
for
coming
to
speak
to
the
committee.
I
wish
to
take
what
you've
discussed
over
the
last
few
answers
and
combine
that
then,
with
the
charge
of
this
committee,
we
have
to
decide
whether
or
not
we
will
issue
articles
of
impeachment
against
Mr
Goldie
when
it
comes
to
issuing
articles
of
impeachment
KRS
62035
says
that
we
shall
state
with
reasonable
certainty
that
a
misdemeanor
in
office
for
which
impeachment
impeachment
is
sought.
C
D
I
think,
there's
more
than
one
I
think
official
misconduct
fits
in
misdemeanors
and
trust
me
I've
thought
a
lot
about
whether
or
not
any
of
these
would
rise
to
the
level
of
felony
offense
because
of
the
the
Dual
prosecution
system
we
have
in
Kentucky.
Obviously,
I
spend
a
lot
more
time.
Looking
at
felonies
and
I
know
the
felony
system
and
what
we
do
if
we
can
find
a
applicable
felony
here
versus
if
it's
only
misdemeanor
offenses,
then
it's
not
within
the
Commonwealth
attorney's
jurisdiction,
and
it
has
to
be
a
county
attorney
that
takes
action.
E
I
think
and
I
think
what
Rob's
talking
about
to
expand
the
law.
Would
you
know
one
of
the
things
that
we
the
phrase
we
deal
with
a
lot
of
pecuniary
interest
and
was
he
getting
something
of
a
financial
or
pecuniary
interest?
And
that's
something
I
think
needs
to
be
broadened
to
include
the
types
of
photographs
videos
that
he
was
demanding
receiving
asking
for
requesting.
You
know:
I,
don't
know
that
in
State
Court
it
it
particularly
fits,
but
I
think
it
should.
If
that
makes
sense.
E
A
C
May
go
ahead.
I
appreciate
that
very
much
and
I
wish
to
clarify
that
the
misdemeanors
that
we
are
charged
with
are
different
than
the
statutory
misdemeanors
that
the
County
Attorney
would
handle.
So
just
to
clarify
that
point,
do
you
believe
that
there
is
enough
misconduct
here
that
there
are
several
different
acts
that
could
be
separately
defined
if
we
were
to
issue
articles
of
impeachment.
D
C
D
Would
you
ever
impeach
a
Commonwealth
Attorney
I
mean
sort
of
killing
someone
or
committing
some
other.
You
know
violent
physical
offense
I
as
far
as
ethics
go.
This
is
about
as
unethical
as
it
gets
and
it's
no
different.
In
fact,
it
might
be
worse
than
taking
cash
from
a
defendant,
and
we
would
all
agree
that
that
was
highly
inappropriate
and
worthy
of
impeachment.
So
if
taking
cash,
bribes
is
worthy
of
impeachment.
F
Well
and
I
think
the
answer
that
the
pecuniary
interest
that
Rob
was
talking
about
I
think
it's
found
also
in
his
messages.
Where
he's
talking
to
her
about
he
had
a
friend
who
was
selling
these
type
things
I
think
there's
where
you
show
the
pecanion
interest,
there's
of
some
value
to
those
but
again
I
agree
with
Robin
I.
Believe
yes,
if
not
now,
when.
J
I
did
and
I
think
I
failed
to
ask
the
question
I
really
was
at
getting
at
is
let's
say
that
the
Kentucky
Bar
Association
does
not
despar.
He
doesn't
resign
in
that
way.
Is
it
your
opinion
and
I
think
the
answer
has
been
said
in
different
ways,
but
that,
regardless
of
what
they
think
about
him
coming
back
to
practice
law,
if
we
make
there
are
grounds
in
your
opinion
that
we
should
say
that
he
should
not
hold
the
public
trust
again
in
public
office.
Regardless
of
of
that
proceeding,
yes,.
E
I
think
the
answer
easily
is
yes
and
let
me
kind
of
make
a
distinction
here.
The
bar
association
talks
about
whether
he
can
practice
law,
whether
he
can
get
out
here
and
be
an
attorney.
Have
people
retain
him
to
do
legal
work
for
him
this
body,
and
what
we're
here
for
is
whether
he
is
fit
to
hold
the
position
of
Commonwealth
attorney
and
I.
Don't
want
to
speak
too
much
out
of
turn,
but
that's
a
position
that
all
of
us
hold
very
near
and
dear
to
our
hearts.
E
We
have
a
lot
of
pride
in
the
Commonwealth's
attorneys
across
the
state
and
specifically
the
position
of
Commonwealth's
Attorney.
It's
not
personal
to
any
of
us.
It's
a
position
that
we
are
fortunate
enough
to
be
able
to
hold,
but
we
hold
it
in
a
high
regard
and
we,
we
believe
or
I,
do
I
think
they
all
do,
believes
that
the
public
holds
the
position
of
Commonwealth's
Attorney
in
a
high
regard,
separate
and
distinct
from
our
position
as
a
practicing
lawyer.
I
think,
because
of
the
work
that
we
do,
the
responsibility
we
take
on.
E
We
have
a
tremendous
sense
of
pride
in
that
office
in
that
position,
and
it's
it's
it's
a
it's
a
job
that
we
we
go
to
work
and
do
every
day
because
of
the
pride
that
we
have
in
that
position,
not
just
as
a
practicing
attorney
but
as
the
felony
elected
prosecutor
for
our
jurisdiction
and
and
that's
why
to
be.
You
know
this.
C
A
That
a
Commonwealth
Attorney
would
contact
another
County
I
think
in
this
case
it
was
Clark
County
to
try
to
intervene
in
that
individual's
case.
This
degree.
E
E
A
lot
of
those
a
lot
of
folks
from
Casey
and
Adair
that
end
up
with
charges
in
my
jurisdiction
in
the
29th
circuit
will
also
have
charges
in
the
11th
or
the
the
40th
or
the
28th
and
I
may
contact
the
prosecutor
over
there
and
say
hey
what
what
are
you
doing
with
this
case,
or
this
defendant
is
doing
well
over
here
or
not
doing
well,
I
have
them
on
bond.
You
have
them
on
probation.
E
You
know
we
may
share
information.
So
that's
not
uncommon.
It's
not
uncommon
for
us
to
be
a
designated
as
a
special
prosecutor
in
another
jurisdiction,
but
in
this
context
advocating
outside
of
the
context
of
of
what
you
would
perceive
as
the
prosecutorial
responsibilities.
Yes,
I
think
that
is
is
unusual
and
I,
don't
want
to
say
unprecedented,
but
it's
close
to
being
unprecedented.
In
my
mind
that
if
that
answers
your
question.
F
I
I
would
echo
or
what
Brian
just
said
and
that
you
know
we
do
talk
to
Common
attorneys
about
charges,
they've
got
or
but
I
can
only
remember
and
I
may
be
wrong.
I
can
only
remember
one
time.
I
was
called
by
a
common
attorney
and
said:
hey
you've
got
a
warrant
on
somebody.
Can
you
get
it
recalled,
and
it
was
because
he
had
a
murder
trial
going,
and
this
individual
was
a
witness
traveling
from
another
state
and
was
afraid
it
was
going
to
pull
and
so
I
actually
looked.
F
It
wasn't
my
warrant,
it
was
a
District
Court
warrant
out
of
our
county
attorney's
office
and
I
called
the
county
attorney
and
got
him
on
board.
Ronnie
Bowen
was
a
common
attorney
who
needed
this.
Witness
coming
out
of
Texas
I
was
afraid
they
were
going
to
get
picked
up
on
somewhere
on
a
Greyhound
bus
as
they
got
him
a
ground
bus
coming
up
and
would
delay
his
trial.
That
that's
the
extent
of
which
we
we
worked
to
get
a
warrant
recalled
so
that
a
witness
could
come
testify
in
her
murder
case.
F
A
D
I
sort
of
used
my
closing
comment
already,
because
I
was
gonna
that
my,
if
not
now,
when
comment
was
going
to
be
what
I
intended
to
close
with,
but
I
would
just
indicate
to
this
committee
that
I
think
that
when
we
voted
to
expel
Mr
Goldie
from
our
association,
the
gravity
of
that
vote
that
our
association
took
I,
think
that
was
our
impeachment
right
there.
D
Maybe
we
wouldn't
have
to
have
hearings
like
this,
but
nevertheless,
where
we
are
where
we
are
and
I
would
just
again
stress
that
none
of
us
want
to
be
in
this
situation.
None
of
us
want
to
have
to
come
testify
in
a
situation
like
this,
but,
most
importantly,
none
of
us
want
this
kind
of
a
situation
to
go
on
in
the
Commonwealth
of
Kentucky.
And
that's
why
we're
here
and
that's?
D
E
In
closing,
I,
say:
I
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
be
here
and
I
agree
with
Rob
this.
It's
tough,
it's
a
tough
decision
for
this
body.
To
make
I
understand
that
you
know,
impeachments
is
a
is
a
drastic
measure
that
should
only
be
reserved
for
very,
very
limited
cases.
We
believe
the
conduct
in
this
case
Rises
to
that
level
and
and
I
it's
tough.
It
is,
and
when
I
saw
these,
you
know
when
representative
Valley
First
contacted
me.
E
You
know
it's
just
it's
a
tough
ask
to
come
up
here
and
say
to
testify
in
before
this
body
as
to
why
one
of
our
fellow
Congress
attorneys
conduct
is.
Is
that
egregious,
but
from
what
I
knew
beforehand,
I
felt
like
it
was,
and
then
these
additional
messages,
the
full
context
of
them
that
I
received
in
preparation
for
this.
It's
clear
that
that
the
conduct
is
that,
egregious
and
and
again,
I
appreciate
appreciate
your
all's
consideration
of
the
matter.
Yes,.
F
Thank
you
all
for
having
us
up
here
today
and
we
do
understand
the
gravity
of
the
decisions
you
all
have
to
make,
and
we
appreciate
that
and
Brian's
right
when
he
contacted
me
and
Rob
about
coming
to
testify.
I
can
tell
you
we
all
three
had
our
hesitation.
F
We
we
all
had
that
moment
of
man,
that
you
know
that
we
wanted
and
then
like
Rob
said,
if,
if
this
doesn't
reach
that
level,
what
does
and
as
Brian
said,
the
respect
that
we
have
for
not
only
our
citizens
in
our
circuits
but
for
the
citizens
of
Commonwealth
and
all
the
other
circuits
and
we
think
they're
all
entitled
or
should
be
entitled
to
Fair
representation
by
Common
attorney,
who
is
not
conducting
himself
in
this
manner
and
is
conducting
himself
above
approach.
That's
why
we're
here
and
we
appreciate
you
all
having
this
business.
A
Well,
thank
you
to
each
of
you
and
we
really
appreciate
your
time
and
your
willingness
to
come
and
testify.
We
know
it's
not
easy,
as
each
of
you
have
pointed
out.
We
thank
you
for
the
great
job
that
you're
doing
your
great
example
of
Commonwealth's
attorneys
across
Kentucky
and
you're,
working
along
with
law
enforcement
to
keep
us
all
safe,
and
we
appreciate
that
very
much
and
we
thank
you
for
the
powerful
testimony
that
you've
that
you've
given
this
morning
is
there
a
motion
to
go
into
executive
session,
we're
an
executive
session.