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From YouTube: School Funding task Force (10-18-21)
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A
Here
today
to
the
fifth
min,
excuse
me,
fifth
meeting
for
the
school
funding
task
force
day
is
monday
october
18th,
and
I
hereby
call
this
a
meeting
to
order.
I
just
would
like
to
remind
everybody
if
you
do
have
a
cell
phone.
If
you
please
turn
that
to
silent
or
vibrate.
That
would
be
greatly
appreciated
this
morning.
A
A
If
you
have
any
question
or
comment
during
the
meeting,
please
indicate
that
in
the
meetings
chat
function
and
a
link
to
today's
meeting
materials
was
sent
to
members
and
they
are
also
available
on
the
task
force
page
on
the
lrc
website.
We
do
have
a
quorum
so
chris,
if
you
would
I'm
going
to
let
you
please
call
the
roll.
A
A
Great
good
to
see
our
co-chair
tipton
and
everyone
else
in
the
audience
this
morning
also
those
participating
as
well
members.
Anybody
have
any
comment.
Any
questions
before
we
get
started
all
right
scene.
None.
Our
first
item
on
the
agenda
today
is
with
the
kentucky
department
of
education
and
during
the
2021
regular
session,
the
general
assembly
passed
house
bill
563,
which
included
a
provision
allowing
non-resident
students
to
be
included
in
a
district's
average
daily
attendance
for
the
purposes
of
receiving
state
seek
funding.
A
The
responsibilities
of
the
task
force
include
receiving
a
report
from
the
kentucky
department
of
education
regarding
recommendations
on
how
local
funds
may
follow
non-resident
students.
Today
we
have
staff
from
kde
that
will
be
available
online
to
provide
an
overview
of
that
report
and,
additionally,
they
are
available
to
respond
to
questions
members
may
have
from
previous
meetings.
There
is
a
copy
of
the
powerpoint
in
all
members
materials
folders,
and
this
also
can
be
found
online
on
the
task
force
website.
A
Jay
and
todd-
thank
you
all
for
being
here
this
morning
and
whichever
one
of
you
all
wishes
to
proceed
first
I'll,
let
you
go
ahead
and
have
the
floor.
D
A
D
Chad,
thank
you.
Okay,
great
thank
you.
So
today
we're
going
to
talk
about
actually
two
different
things
and
it's
a
reasonably
short
presentation
that
we're
going
to
go
through
and
obviously
at
any
time.
You
have
questions
just
let
me
know
so.
This
is
a
preview
of
a
kde
funding
report,
as
senator
wise
mentioned
house,
bill
563
and
I'm
sorry.
D
We
have
a
little
bit
of
an
error
on
this
slide,
but
house
bill
563
required
the
kentucky
department,
education
by
november
1st,
to
submit
a
report
to
talk
about
the
equitable
transfer
of
education
funds,
so
that
funds
can
follow
a
non-resident
student
to
a
school
district
of
enrollment
from
a
school
district
of
residence,
a
significant
difference
there.
The
report
shall
include
recommendations
on
how
the
amount
should
be
calculated
and
what
mechanism
should
actually
move
the
money
itself
or
to
conduct
the
transfer
so
house
bill
405
sort
of
a,
I
guess,
a
similar
bill.
D
In
one
sense,
it
created
the
school
funding
task
force,
but
the
difference
is
is
that
both
of
these
require
kde
to
report
the
same
information
to
some
different
entities,
one
being
lrc
and
the
interim
joint
committee
on
education
and
house
bill
405
sends
it
to
the
school
funding
task
force,
which,
obviously
you
all
are
part
of
so
same
result.
But
this
is
mostly
a
preview
of
some
of
the
stuff
we've
been
working
on
so
under
current
law.
Non-Resident
student
funding,
keras
157
350
permits
districts
to
include
non-resident
students
in
the
average
daily
attendance.
D
D
So
as
the
districts
get
these
non-resident
kids
in
their
school,
the
staff
at
these
schools
will
actually
code
these
students
inside
of
infinite
campus,
which
records
the
where
these
students
are.
So
we
can
always
look
and
see
how
many
non-resident
students
there
are
in
one
district
versus
another
or
in
in
some
cases
you
might
have
a
district
with
agreements
with
six
surrounding
districts
or
something
like
that.
So
it's
not
necessarily
just
internal
to
a
county.
It
can
be
next
door
and
even
several
counties
away.
D
D
D
The
tax
credit
for
private
school
students,
so
average
daily
attendance,
is
also
used
throughout
some
other
mechanisms
that
we
fund
on
seek
funds
is
a
big
obvious
one.
Some
state
formula
grants
are
also
determined
by
average
daily
attendance
as
well,
and
then
some
federal
funds
are
calculated
using
average
daily
attendance.
D
Okay,
so
part
of
this,
the
the
recommendation.
When
we
talk
about
local
tax
revenues,
it's
important
to
understand
what
what's
included
there
for
school
districts.
So
these
are
all
tax
rates
are
going
to
be
set
by
your
local
board
of
education.
D
If
you
own
some
property,
be
it
a
house
car
you're,
going
to
be
paying
a
chunk
of
your
taxes
on
that
tax
bill
go
to
the
schools,
it's
usually
a
significant
portion
of
that
tax
bill
go
to
the
school
districts
and
to
keep
in
mind
the
reason
too,
behind
that
in
some
cases,
as
school
districts
are
the
only
taxing
entity
that
actually
has
a
local
effort
deduction
inside
their
funding
formula.
So
in
a
sense
they
they're
losing
on
the
seek
side.
So
they
have
to
offset
that
through
local
taxes.
D
D
So
if
I'm
campbellsville-
and
I
have
this
tax,
it
would
only
hit
those
residents
who
live
and
work
inside
of
campbellsville
and
then
excise
taxes
are
actually
no
district.
Does
this,
but
it's
a
tax
on
a
tax
liability
for
the
individual,
so
obviously
wouldn't
be
too
popular?
I
would
assume
so
all
these
taxes
are
collected
locally
by
the
school
districts
or
in
one
case
the
department
of
revenue
does
collect
the
utility
taxes
on
behalf
of
districts.
Then
they'll
send
them
a
their
amounts
just
for
I'm
sure
logistical
purposes.
D
It's
much
easier
for
the
department
of
revenue
to
do
that
than
it
is
100
plus
school
districts,
so
tax
collection
rates
will
vary
by
district
most
of
the
time
and
when
the
economy
is
doing,
fine
you'll
see
some
pretty
consistent
collection
rates
throughout
the
state.
However,
we
do
have
areas
that
collection
rates
are
pretty.
You
know
dismal
at
times.
If
we
go
back
several
years
when
the
economy
was
not
doing
so
hot
in
areas
where
unemployment's
high
and
things
like
that,
obviously
people
that
aren't
working,
usually
don't
or
usually
cannot
pay
property
taxes.
D
So
collection
rates
can
be
impacted
by
that,
so
the
kentucky
department
of
revenue-
we
we
don't
ever
really
see
this
money
as
far
as
coming
through
our
door.
We
don't
touch
it.
It
never
kind
of
cycles
through
our
department
or
anything
like
that.
D
So
some
of
the
options
for
we'll
go
through
a
couple
of
these
are
these
four
right
here.
D
A
Quick,
we
have
a
question
from
representative
tipton.
What
I'll
do
if
members?
That's?
Okay,
if
we
have
questions
on
the
particular
slides
as
the
kd
is
going
through
these.
I
just
ask
you
to
to
motion
to
josh,
we'll
take
a
question.
Let
me
go
first,
senator
thomas,
you
don't
care.
Let
me
go
to
representative
tipton,
since
he
was
first
in
line
and
then
we'll
follow
with
senator
thomas.
F
Thank
you,
mr
chair
shea
and
mr
allen
appreciate
you
being
here
today
and
and
my
question.
Actually,
I've
got
two
three
questions,
but
first
question
is
in
regard
to
the
recent
court
decision.
It's
my
understanding
that
the
litigants
in
that
only
file
suit,
based
on
the
occupa,
the
education
opportunity
account
portion.
F
The
actual
litigation
did
not
address
the
portion
of
the
bill
dealing
with
the
transfer
from
one
district
to
another,
non-resident
students,
but
I'm
I'm
reading
differing
opinions.
So
is
it
the
opinion
of
kde
that
the
court
ruling
enjoined
the
entire
house
bill
563
just
for
clarification
before
we
go
further.
E
Thank
you,
representative
tipton,
yes,
you're,
correct
on
on
most
of
the
points
that
you've
made
there
and
I've
also,
I
will
note,
provided
a
full
analysis
to
the
committee
staff
lrc
staff
there,
that
you
can
reference
as
well,
so
it
goes
into
quite
a
bit
of
detail
but
in
short,
you're
correct
that
the
plaintiffs
in
that
suit
only
asked
the
court
to
declare
certain
sections
of
house
bill
563
unconstitutional.
E
E
I
think
there
are
quite
a
few
questions
and
it's
possible
that
the
court
may
enter
something
clarifying
that,
but
until
we
have
that
based
on
the
court's
plain
language
and
its
order,
it
appears
that
the
entirety
of
house
bill
563
was
declared
unconstitutional.
E
A
F
Thank
you,
of
course,
I
think
it's,
it's
obvious.
This
litigation
is
going
to
be
appeal
from
every
everything
that
I
understand
I'm
reading.
So
we
really
don't
know
the
final
outcome
of
this.
It's
also
possible
that
the
supreme
eventually
supreme
court
could
send
to
could
sever
the
portions
and
and
ask
so
I
assume
we're
still
it's
still
a
lot
of
unknowns
here.
F
I
guess
is
my
point
more
of
a
comment
than
a
question,
so
I
appreciate
you
continuing
to
discuss
this
because
it's
very
possible
that
we
still
may
be
dealing
with
this
when
the
final
litigation
is
determined
on
this.
F
Now
I
do
have
a
question
related
to
your
discussion
about
local
funds
and-
and
I
know
that
your
your
portion
here
is
talking
about
so
is
it
going
forward
on
this?
Your
your
interpretation
is
that-
and
I
think
I
would
agree
with
this-
that
no
local
funds
could
transfer
from
one
district
to
another,
but
it
is
a
possibility.
It
could
be
a
mechanism
in
place
that
the
state
shared
the
funds
could
transfer.
E
F
Yeah,
okay,
well
I'll
defer
on
that,
and-
and
this
is
really
related
to
the
oea
report
from
last
week-
and
one
thing
that
I
just
want
clarification
while
I've
got
you
here
is
one
of
the
hypothetical
situations
that
they
gave
us
on.
The
seek
formula
was
increasing
local
support
from
30
to
35
cents.
F
Now,
as
I
understand
that,
essentially
every
district
already
there's
no
district
below,
I
think
42
points
so
many
cents
right
now,
so
all
districts
are
already
levying
that
that
amount
of
tax
rate.
So
essentially
what
happened?
I
want
to
make
sure
I
understand
that,
essentially
in
the
seek
formula,
there's
more
local
support,
so
the
total
seat
calculation
is
greater,
but
without
any
changes
the
state
portion
does
not
change.
Would
not
change.
Am
I
could
you?
Could
you
just
clarify
that
and
make
some
comments
on
that?
So
I
have
a
better
understanding
of.
D
That
recommendation
sure
representative
and
if
I
may,
let
me
back
up
a
little
bit,
make
sure
we're
talking
about
the
same
thing
to
be
clear,
every
district
and
when
we
calculate
their
seek
funding,
we
reduce
30
cents
per
100
of
their
property
assessment.
So
over
time,
if
we
go
back
10
years
and
I'll
pick
on
one
of
your
home
districts,
there,
spencer
county
and
their
assessment,
you
know
their
local
effort.
Just
hypothetically
was
10
million
dollars.
We
would
reduce
that
out
of
funding
and
over
time
assessments
typically
grow.
D
You
know
somewhat
in
most
communities
so
that
local
effort,
maybe
over
10
years,
has
grown
quite
a
bit.
So
as
time
goes
on,
you
know
if
their
assessments
are
growing,
they
will
get
a
larger
deduction
from
that
local
effort.
You
know
that
30
cents
actually
grows,
it's
still
30
cents,
but
the
other
factor
in
that
formula
has
grown.
So
the
amount
is
a
little
higher.
Now
I
think,
to
oea's
hypothetical
about
the
35
cents.
What
that
essentially
does
is
it
provides
just
a
you.
D
So
you'd
actually
be
the
deduction
for
every
district
would
be
a
bit
larger,
and
I
know
I've
looked
through
some
of
their
scenarios
as
well,
so
that
changes
the
dynamic
a
little
bit
between
local
and
state
funding,
because
now
the
locals
would
actually-
and
I
know-
we've
got
a
couple
in
the
room
there-
probably,
but
they
would
have
a
larger
portion
five
cents
more
if
you
will
reduced
from
their
state
funding
just
by
default,
and
you
are
correct
that
every
district
is
in
some
cases
well
above
that
30
cent
minimum,
I'm
not
sure
the
lowest
we've
got
right
now,
but
I'd
say
in
the
40s
somewhere
is
probably
correct.
D
G
G
Okay,
am
I
correct
that,
as
local
effort
increases
due
to
due
to
the
increase
in
property
assessments
and
property
revenues
for
a
county,
the
amount
of
seat
money
goes
down
first,
for
instance,
I'm
thinking
about
fayette
county,
my
home
county
every
year.
Their
seek
amount
goes
down
because
their
property
tax
assessments
go
up
and
the
amount
of
property
taxes
they
collect
go
up.
Am
I
correct
on
that.
D
Yes,
generally
speaking,
that's
exactly
the
case.
So
as
property
assessments
increase
they're
going
to
get
less-
and
I'm
kind
of
you
know
reading
this
in
a
vacuum
that
they're
going
to
get
less
from
the
state
and
they're
but
they'll
be
able
to
generate
more
locally.
So
it's
that
sort
of
seesaw
effect
as
I'm
able
to
collect
more
locally
through
local
taxes
and
local
revenue,
I'm
less
dependent
on
the
state
for
that
state
revenue.
D
There
we
go,
I'm
sorry
about
that.
So
the
considered
options
is
one
is
just
status
quo.
Local
funds
are
not
transfer
or
provided
for
so
we're
talking
about
the
the
real
basics
of
this
are.
How
do
I
think
the
question
boils
down
to
how
do
local
funds?
How
could
they
follow
a
student
from
say,
campbellsville
over
to
taylor,
county
or
from
anderson
to
boyle
county
so
option?
D
One
is
really
just
the
status
quo
right
now
they
don't
that
the
local
tax
dollars
stay
in
the
community
in
which
they're
levied,
if
you
will
so
number
two-
is
the
transfer
of
local
funds
from
a
resident
to
non-resident
district.
This
would
be,
for
example,
from
franklin
to
frankfort
independent.
D
However,
there
are
some
issues
we
believe
with
kentucky
constitution.
Section
180
and
number
three
is
the
adjustment
of
seek
itself.
As
representative
tipton,
you
mentioned
oea's
hypothetical
of
five
cents
more
added
to
that
local
effort-
and
this
is
kind
of
along
those
same
lines-
is
that
one
of
the
options
would
be
to
actually
adjust
seek
itself
to.
You
know
create
a
an
amount
that
would
quote,
follow
the
student
over
to
a
district.
D
So,
in
other
words,
you
would
credit
one
district
where
the
student
was
attending
and
then
deduct
that
amount
from
a
you
know
his
home,
his
or
her
home
district.
If
you
will
so
this,
of
course,
has
some
issues
with
the
general
assembly's
responsibility
to
provide
adequate
funding
number
four.
This
is
a
little
more
complicated
but
a
separate
appropriation,
and
there
are
plenty
of
these
inside
the
the
seek
budget.
There's
some
other
add-ons
if
you
will,
but
this
will
be
equal
to
the
local
per
pupil
revenue
in
the
attending
district.
D
D
There
are
add-ons
for
exceptional
children,
limited
english
students,
free
lunch
students-
things
like
that,
so
this
would
effectively
be
just
another
add-on
if
you
will-
and
it
does
create
sort
of
a
timing
issue,
because
the
way
seek
operates
now
is
we're
looking
at
in
a
normal
year,
not
quite
this
pandemic
period,
but
a
normal
year,
we're
always
looking
backwards
at
student
counts
with
some
rare
exceptions.
So
we're
looking
back
at
last
year's
students
to
pay
for
this
year.
D
So-
and
I
know
mr
borchers
is
the
superintendent
of
borchers-
is
in
there,
so
the
students
that
were
in
his
district
last
year,
I'm
actually
counting
those
in
a
normal
year
again,
not
a
pandemic
year
for
his
funding.
So
when
you're
trying
to
do
this,
students
that
have
left
the
district
there
would
almost
be
a
delay
for
that
money
to
reach
the
new
district,
because
it
you
know
the
the
way
the
students
can
flow
back
and
forth.
D
So
when
we
talk
about
the
the
issue
of
section
180
of
the
kentucky
constitution
and
again,
I'm
no
attorney,
this
should
not
be
construed
as
legal
advice,
but
that's
one
reason:
I've
got
mr
allen
with
me
is
no
tax
levied
and
collected
for
one
purpose
shall
be
devoted
to
another
purpose.
D
The
part
two,
I
think,
the
third
option
we
gave
you
there.
The
responsibility
of
the
general
assembly
that
came
out
of
the
roads
versus
council
for
better
education
and
also
the
reduction
of
a
district
seek
funding,
may
unconstitutionally
shift
the
burden
of
adequate
funding
from
the
general
assembly
to
the
local
school
district.
So
each
of
these
considerations,
with
the
exception
of
status
quo,
we
believe
there
are
some
legal
questions
behind.
H
Mr
riers
robbie
fletcher
lawrence
county,
a
quick
follow-up
question
when
we
were
talking
about
the
change
and
seek
versus
property
value,
is
it
safe
to
say
that
if,
if
a
district
has
a
higher
property
value
and
then
the
seek
funding
decreases,
that
is
not
penny
for
penny
again,
there's
so
many
funding,
add-ons
and
mechanisms.
H
H
D
It
is
not
dollar
for
dollar,
I
think
you're
correct
in
that,
and
that
too
you
know
there
are
cases-
and
we
see
this
as
just
the
nature
of
tax
collections
and
just
the
taxing
process
that
your
assessments,
you
know
as
they
go
up
your
30
cent.
Local
effort
is
being
reduced
out
of
seek
and
in
some
cases,
large,
especially
larger
companies.
D
The
tax
revenue
that
you
get
from
these
larger
companies
may
be
protested.
Their
assessments
could
be
adjusted
and
things
like
that.
But
to
get
to
your
point
in
a
roundabout
way,
absolutely
it's
not
dollar
for
dollar.
H
If
I
may
follow
up
too,
if
we'll
recall
back
to
our
the
oea
report
that
was
given,
if
you
look
at
the
discrepancy
and
equity,
I
think
that's
very
evident
by
the
property
rich
districts
versus
the
property
poor
districts,
if
you
will,
because
there's
a
as
much
as
a
two
thousand,
almost
a
three
thousand
dollar
difference
between
a
quintile
one
and
a
quintile
five.
So
that
would
lend
to
this.
Also
too.
So,
please
remind
remember
when
we
say
that
a
property
value
goes
up
and
a
district
seat
goes
down.
That's
not
dollar
for
dollar.
D
Kde
is
not
really
a
party
to
these
agreements
so
and
I'll
give
you
the
example
that
frankfort
independent
franklin
county
way
back
when
I
was
a
lot
younger,
a
lot,
less
gray,
hair
and
was
a
student
if
they
hit
a
point
where
they've
reached,
for
example,
if
they
have
an
agreement
with
franklin
county,
it
says
you
know
we'll
do
a
you
know,
10
student
swap
and
that's
you
know,
that's
it
so
students
who
don't
aren't
part
of
that.
You
know
the
parents
can
pay
tuition
and
superintendent
borchers.
I
Correct
we
have
a
250
agreement,
but
we've
had
a
lot
of
discussions
in
some
of
the
other
meetings
that
I
think
tuition
could
become
part
of
an
issue
here
with
something
with
federal
funding.
Todd
is,
is
that
am
I
right
on
that.
E
So
there
are
a
lot
of
issues
with
regard
to
tuition.
The
one
that
I'll
highlight
first
is
that
the
rose
decision,
the
supreme
court
decided
back
in
the
late
80s,
which
is
probably
the
most
language
that
we
have
from
the
state
supreme
court
regarding
our
system
of
common
schools
in
the
state
was
very
clear
that
common
schools
must
be
free.
J
Thank
you
senator
wise.
I
just
really
had
a
comment
from
a
school
board
member's
perspective
boards
levy
taxes
to
operate
the
schools
within
their
districts,
and
it
would
be
very
difficult
for
me
to
ask
my
community
to
raise
the
taxes
if
they
thought
that
that
money
was
going
to
be
transferred
to
a
district
outside
of
our
community.
D
Okay
and
sort
of
part,
two
of
this
presentation
is
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
something
that
I
know
oea
may
have
mentioned.
So,
as
I
mentioned
a
couple
of
times,
we
currently
use
average
daily
attendance
as
one
of
the
primary
numbers
we
use
in
our
funding
formula
and
there's
a
there's.
D
A
question
asked
about
average
daily
membership,
so
you've
got
ada,
basically
versus
adm,
and
we're
going
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
differences,
let's
get
into
the
weeds
a
little
bit,
but
we
try
to
keep
it
reasonably
high
level
so
with
ada.
The
generic
example
is,
if
I'm
a
student
and
I'm
there
100
of
the
time
I
generate
1.0
of
ada
a
pretty
simple
idea.
D
So
just
as
a
very
generic
example,
if
you
imagine
a
whole
school
full
of
really
good
students
that
attend
100
of
the
time
that
school
would
generate
full
ada.
However,
as
we
know,
kids
get
sick,
miss
school
and
things
like
that.
So
there's
this
adjusted
average
daily
attendance
and
that's
how
we
really
that's
one
of
the
big
basic
numbers
to
calculate
school
funding.
D
Now,
there's
some
additions
and
subtractions
in
there
to
daily
student
attendance,
and
this
is
what
we're
going
to
pull
into
the
final
seat
calculation
and
our
current
system
that
we
use
to
calculate
all
this.
When
I
say
system,
it's
a
program
that
current
program
stores
all
of
these
numbers
and
that's
eventually
how
we
get
to
your
you
know
your
seek
funding
for
each
district,
so
this
gets
a
little
deeper
into
the
weeds,
but
it
kind
of
gives
you
an
idea
of
how
ada
works.
D
So
we
have
to
remove
non-contract
students
non-resident
students,
as
obviously
as
we
just
talked
about,
we
don't
pay,
seek
funds
for
those
students
and
previously-
and
since
you
know,
we've
got
that
one
year
of
full
kindergarten
funding.
You
know
we
actually
used
to
use
half
of
the
kindergarten
ada
and
I
always
joke
it's
not
because
these
are
very
short,
kids.
It's
just
the
way
it's
been
done
for
years
is
the
kindergarten
funding
was
always
half
now.
D
Obviously,
in
this
last
go
around,
the
general
assembly
allowed
us
to
do
full
kindergarten
funding,
so
that
was
a
huge
huge
deal
so
that
we
adjusted
inside
of
this.
So
instead
of
subtracting
out
half
of
the
kindergarten,
we
left
a
full
kindergarten
in
there.
So
also
there
are
some
over
age
and
underage
students
that
don't
qualify
pursuant
to
a
regulation
and
then
we're
going
to
add
on
virtual
school
and
performance-based
learning
students.
D
So
we're
subtracting
out
one
group
and
then
we
add
in
another
group,
so
there's
some
further
adjustments
for
low
attendance
days
and
then
low
attendance
weather
days
and
then
also
nti,
which
you've
heard
a
lot
more
in
the
last
couple
years,
but
nti
existed
before
then,
of
course
too.
So
these
are
all
adjustments
basically
done
inside
of
another
program.
We
have
to
get
a
district's
ada
for
the
year
and,
as
I
mentioned
earlier,
we're
always
looking
behind
us
so
and
I'll
pick
on
lawrence
county.
D
I'm
going
to
use
his
ada
from
the
prior
year
to
funding
for
the
current
year
in
a
normal
seek
run
not
during
the
pandemic,
of
course,
because
nothing's
quite
normal
there.
So
when
we
talk
about
average
daily
membership,
this
is
a
very
different
concept,
and
so
I've
been
think
14
years
since
I've
been
at
kde,
you
know
it
was
always
ada,
ada,
ada
and
obviously
the
attendance
part
of
that's
an
important
part
of
that
formula.
Now
adm
is
an
enrollment
count.
D
So
if
you
think
of
this
as
a
school
year,
I'm
going
to
start
say,
august
30th
and
get
out
may
30th
there's
this
idea
that
your
average
daily
membership
is
just
the
number
of
enrolled
students
over
a
certain
period
of
time.
So
if
you
have
10
new
students
come
in
and
say
I
don't
know
november,
that
begins
to
be
added
to
your
average.
So
that
long
stretch-
and
we
did
look
at
some
other
states
to
kind
of
see
and
I've
got
a
document.
D
D
D
So
when
we
talk
about
any
change
to
this
type
of
system-
and
you
know
we
talk-
we
think
a
lot
about
transitioning
to
from
88
to
adm.
So
some
of
the
things
we
think
about
is
you
know
the
accuracy
so
with
our
average
daily
attendance,
we
have
attendance
audits.
D
We
have
auditors
that
go
out
and
work
with
districts
throughout
the
year
they
used
to
physically
go
out,
and
some
now
it's
a
little
bit
more
virtual,
but
they
still
go
out
and
literally
go
through
paper
and
look
at
look
at
some
of
the
way
they
code,
students
and
stuff
and
make
sure
it's
accurate.
So
that's
a
very
important
part
of
this
process
is
accuracy,
predictability.
D
So
from
a
district
perspective,
when
you're
budgeting,
obviously
like
any
business,
you've
got
to
look
at
your
revenue
and
what
generates
your
revenue
as
students
so
being
able
to
budget
off
of
your
average
daily
membership
may
be
a
little
bit
different
than
your
average
daily
attendance,
and
as
these
superintendents
in
the
room
will
obviously
tell
you
they
have
to
make
hiring
and
a
lot
of
decisions
based
on
that
budget.
That
will
impact
their
school
district.
D
Going
forward
and
then
also
budget
stability,
so
and
we'll
talk
a
little
more
about
this
in
a
second
about
you
know:
how
do
you
wrap
your
head
around
when
you
change
this
from
ada
to
adm?
That
transition
might
be
a
little
bumpy
for
some
districts,
because,
obviously
right
now,
we've
been
in
this
two-year
window
where
ada's
been
sort
of
frozen.
D
If
you
will
so
one
of
the
things
they
did,
probably
92
or
so
is
they
built
in
a
hold
harmless
provision
and
seek,
and
I
think
we
have
three
districts
or
a
handful
that
qualify
for
that
now,
which
create
a
floor
of
funding
for
those
districts.
So
as
we
transitioned
from
you
know
the
funding
many
many
years
ago,
pre-cara
into
cara
this
floor,
hold
harmless
provision,
was
kind
of
put
in
place
to
keep
these
districts
from.
You
know
kind
of
falling
off
the
cliff.
D
If
you
will
so
that
kind
of
budget
stability,
we
think,
is
pretty
important
because,
as
you
transition
and
we'll
be
very
frank
and
honest
about
it,
you
know
what
we
have
years
and
years
and
years
of
data,
but
obviously
the
way
numbers
behave
to
certain
situations.
Ada,
for
example,
we
know,
is
impacted
by
attendance.
What
impacts
attendance
health
obviously
does
weather
all
kinds
of
things.
As
these
superintendents
will
tell
you,
they
pay
close
attention
to
attendance.
D
We
have
conversations
about
it
all
the
time,
but
average
daily
membership
is
a
little
bit
different
ball
game,
because
attendance
is
not
really
the
factor
it's
about
enrollment,
so
that
transition
from
you
know
what
I
mentioned
earlier
is
prior
year
and
current
year
we
as
a
department
would
have
to
logistically
figure
out.
How
can
we
do
this
sort
of
the
the
least
harmful
way
to
districts?
D
A
Real
quick,
just
a
comment
and
a
question
for
me
in
other
states:
have
you
seen
if
a
if
the
state
has
gone
from
ada
to
adm?
How
long
was
that
transition
to
take
place,
and
I
guess
what
I'm
looking
at
is?
We
will
be
tasked
to
come
up
with
the
recommendations.
A
D
Well
and
and
frankly,
my
opinion
on
that.
Thank
you.
If
it's
a
good
question
senator
wise,
I
think
we
always
would
ask
for
some
breathing
time
to
not
only
communicate
this
to
districts
but
logistically
for
us.
We
have
a
lot
of
systems
and
these
systems
require
a
lot
of
changes
and
testing.
D
So
we
want
to
make
sure
that
that
data
is
what
we
call.
You
know
scrubbed
and
clean,
meaning
it's
accurate.
We
can
very
easily
go
in
and
audit
it
and
we
say
we
got
the
exact
same
result
as
you
did
so,
there's
a
sense
of
comfort
there.
If
you
will
so,
I
would
say
you
know
we're
not
going
to
need
anything
like
three
to
five
years.
D
Obviously
I
think
it's
more
of
a
question
of
you
know
that
a
cycle
of
one
year
and
make
sure
the
districts
are
also
you
know
on
board
as
well
as
far
as
you
know,
their
folks
are
recording
it
correctly
we're
able
to
audit
it
correctly
and
everyone's
on
the
same
page,
basically,
because
at
the
end
of
the
day,
when
you
switch
from
88
to
80
m,
it's
again
just
another
number
in
our
system,
but
we
just
want
to
make
sure
it's
a
very
accurate,
very
universitable
number
and
one
of
the
issues
we
talked
about
is
a
student
and
that
we
don't
think
this
would
be
a
very
frequent
or
very
large
number.
D
But
if
you're
looking
at
current
year
data,
it
becomes
an
issue.
If
a
student
moves
around
a
lot,
you
know
he's
at
home
in
anderson
county
then
goes
to
grandma's
in
boyle
county.
Then
jumps
to
his
uncle's
house
in
garrett
county,
so
he
could
be
theoretically
part
of
three
districts
adm.
Now,
that's
a
that's
a
kind
of
an
extreme
example,
but
it
takes
time
for
these
districts
to
transfer
records
and
to
end
enrollment,
especially
if
this
student
is
sort
of
you
know,
jumping
around
and
not
really
telling
people
I'm
moving
to
the
next
county
over.
D
So
that's
something
our
systems
and
our
systems.
Analysts
would
have
to
figure
out
the
best
way
to
actually
approach
a
problem
like
that.
Does.
A
A
H
Are
we
going
to
approach
this
from
the
point
of
adequacy
or
equity
or
something
in
between
and
the
reason
why
I
say
that
is
this:
if
you
go
to
average
daily
membership,
because
oea's
report
was
centered
on
if
the
educational
budget
is
not
increased
from
the
state
version,
so
that
being
said,
according
to
this
budget,
everybody
seek
base
which
would
drop
down
to
3
699.55
cents
per
student,
so
that
extra
money
is
then
dispersed
among
other
districts.
In
other
words,
equally
equity
would
be,
it
would
be
addressed.
H
H
Now,
if
we
approach
this
from
adequacy
and
just
say,
okay,
we're
going
to
add
on
285.5
million
into
the
state
budget,
then
everybody
should
increase.
So
when
we
say
we're
going
to
average
daily
membership,
unless
there's
extra
funding
put
in
this
is
really
not
going
to
help
all
districts,
it's
going
to
bring
some
down
and
bring
some
up
so
again.
I'd
like
to
whenever
we
talk
about
average,
daily
membership
or
the
other
add-ons
just
remember.
The
difference
between
adequacy
and
equity
equity
is
going
to
have
some
people
that
are
going
to
lose
money.
H
G
I
I
guess,
chairman
wise,
my
question
is
probably
directed
to
to
to
you
as
as
well
as
to
to
che,
but
but
I'll
I'll.
Ask
I'll.
Ask
this
question
to
che
che
I'm
trying
to
find
out
the
the
substantive
difference
between
average
daily
attendance
and
average
daily
membership
and
and
and
I've
been
sitting
here
racking
my
brain
over
this.
But
but
I
guess
the
difference
is
you
could
have.
G
You
could
have
a
a
student
enrolled
in
a
school
district
who
does
not
attend
school
and
yet,
if
you
went
to
average
daily
membership
formula,
the
school
would
still
be
paid
for
that
student
because
he's
an
enrollee
as
opposed
to
average
daily
attendance,
where
the
school
wouldn't
be
paid
for
that
student,
who
was
a
member
of
the
school
district
but
did
not
attend.
Is
that
the
substantive
difference
here.
D
Yeah,
I
believe
so
senator
so
when
we're
talking
about
one
of
the
key
differences-
and
this
is,
I
think,
it's
a
pretty
big
philosophical
change
because
you
know
simply
put
the
average
daily
attendance
that
attendance
being
the
key
word
there.
So
we're
incentivizing
attendance
so-
and
I
know
just
from
experience
of
working
with
districts-
that's
a
you
know.
A
huge
focus
is
making
sure
that
the
students
are
there
now,
with
average
average
daily
membership.
It's
more
like
enrollment
enrollment.
Essentially,
essentially,
is
I
belong
to
that
school
district.
D
You
know
my
name
is
on
their
books.
Basically,
so
if
I'm
there
or
not
with
average
lady
membership
is
not
necessarily
a
factor
now,
nothing
prevents
some
kind
of
other
incentive
for
attendance.
I'm
not
sure
what
it
would
be,
but
you
know
that's
the
difference
between
the
two
is
one
of
them's
really
attendance
driven.
D
So
if
you
and
I
are
both
students
at
the
same
high
school
and
I'm
there
50
of
the
time
and
you're
there
90
of
the
time
that
attendance
is
part
of
that
funding
for
that
school
district,
so
adm
really
changes
that
over
to
just
enrollment.
You
know
we're
both
members
of
that
same
high
school.
Our
attendance
is
irrelevant
in
that
case.
C
Thank
you.
Thank
you
for
your
presentation.
This
is
very
interesting.
I
have
a
couple
things
comments
and
then
kind
of
a
question
for
you
at
the
end,
I
kind
of
lean
towards
adm,
just
because
I
think,
with
the
whole
pandemic
and
what
we've
seen
with
ada,
I
think
encouraging
kids
to
come
to
school
sick,
and
it
is
just
not
a
smart
thing
to
do.
Also.
I
don't
understand
why
we
worry
so
much
about
whether
a
couple
kids
get
counted.
C
That
may
not
be
there
all
the
time,
because
I'm
telling
you
it
costs
a
lot
of
money
to
chase
kids
down
and
we
work
harder
on
the
kids
that
aren't
there.
You
know
driving
out
to
their
houses,
trying
to
get
them
back.
I
mean
it
costs
a
school
district
just
as
much
when
they're
not
there
as
when
they
are
there.
That's
just
that's
just
sort
of
an
opinion
and
experience
thing,
so
I
don't
understand
why
we're
worried,
if
somebody
you
know,
has
somebody
on
enrollment
but
they're.
C
Only
there
50
of
the
time
it
doesn't
matter
because
we're
spending
a
lot
of
time
and
money
on
them
anyway,
kids,
moving
back
and
forth
to
districts
that
costs
districts,
money
and
time
when
kids
are
doing
that.
So
again,
I'm
not
worried
about
k
about
schools
getting
maybe
you
know
100
200,
300
extra
dollars
because
a
kid
moved
and
we
didn't
catch
it
in
time.
Finally,
I
guess
this
is
just
kind
of
a
this
is
my
dream.
C
I
would
like
to
not
worry
so
much
about
ada
and
adm,
but
I
would
like
to
have
seek
brought
up
to
the
cost
of
living
that
it
should
be
at,
and
then
we
just
stop
dickering
about
all
the
smaller
stuff.
If
we
bring
the
cost
seek
up
to
the
cost
of
living
for
the
schools,
then
we
don't
have
meetings
about
adding
school
nurses,
adding
school
psychologists,
adding
school
counselors.
C
That
is,
for
the
district
to
decide
with
their
budget
being
fully
funded
and
at
what
it
should
be
at
sikh
levels
because
seek
is
so
fair
and
it
it
takes
into
account
of
everything
the
quartiles
just
blow
my
mind.
I
don't
I
don't
like
winners
and
losers
in
education,
it's
great
in
football,
but
it's
not
an
education,
so
gosh
I've
been
holding
that
in
for
a
week.
So
thank
you,
chairman
for
your
indulgence.
A
Representative,
I
appreciate
those
comments
very
much,
and
I
ask
also
that
you
please
use
that
as
your
charge
during
the
recommendation
phase
that
we'll
get
to
later
today,
with
your
comments
that
you
made
next
up
representative
tipton.
F
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
a
lot
of
my
comments
are
going
to
echo
what
representative
banta
said.
I
believe
the
the
main
reason
that
this
topic
is
is
being
heavily
considered.
Right
now
is
what
we've
been
facing.
The
last
19
to
20
months
with
coving
schools
are
having
challenges
they're
having
to
make
very
difficult
decisions
about
whether
to
have
school
in
person
or
not,
and-
and
I
think
it's
this
whole-
they
understand
that
their
next
year's
budget
is
based
on
their
attendance
right
now,
so
it
makes
very
difficult
decision
making.
F
Now
we
have
went
in
in
the
regular
session
in
this
recent
special
session
and
made
some
accommodations
where
they
can
use
the
adm
for
1819
or
1920.
But
folks
we
can't
continue
to
do
that
forever.
We
have
to
set
a,
I
think,
it's
important,
that
we
set
an
effective,
adequate
long-range
policy
going
forward
and
as
far
as
going
to
adm,
I
agree
that
the
costs
are
there,
regardless,
whether
or
not
that
student
is
there
in
the
school
in
that
seat
or
not.
The
school
is
having
to
do
that
cost.
F
But-
and
I
also
understand
for
those
out
there
that
might
be
listening,
I
wouldn't
classify
the
seek
formula
as
algebra,
it's
more
like
calculus
and
there's
so
many
factors
into
it.
So
many
things
that
can
impact
it
so
we're
going
to
have
to.
If
we
go
this
route,
we're
going
to
have
to
tread
carefully
and
make
sure
that
has
been
mentioned.
We
do
some
kind
of
a
smoothing
effect
for
those
districts
that
have
lost
attendance
because
you've
got
you've,
got
districts
out
there
that
are
gaining
enrollment.
F
You've
got
districts
that
are
losing
enrollment,
so
whether
it's
hold
harmless,
whether
it's
a
smoothing
effect,
there's
a
lot
of
considerations
to
take,
but
I
certainly
would
hope
this
would
be
one
recommendation.
We
would
make
to
at
least
consider
looking
at
and
see
if
it
is
feasible,
because
we've
got
to
have
an
effective
policy
going
forward,
because
I
don't,
unfortunately,
I
don't
see
kobe
going
away
anytime
soon.
I
Well,
I'd
like
to
thank
representative
tipton
and
representative
banta
for
their
comments,
because
they're
100
correct
the
one
thing
I
just
wanted
to
add,
rep
or
senator
wise
was
that
when
we
do
our
budgeting,
we
do
get
our
ada
funding
but,
as
you
just
said,
we
have
to
plan
as
if
all
those
students
are
there
every
single
day,
so
whether
it's
on
ada
we're
still
planning
as
if
we
have
our
full
membership.
So
I
agree
100.
I
K
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
but
you
knew
better
than
that,
and
actually
I
wasn't
going
to
say
anything
at
this
point,
but
I
just
really
really
want
to
stand
up
and
cheer
for
what
representative
banta
said
and
what
representative
tipton
said
to
follow
that
and
to
superintendent
borcher's
point
I
mean
you
have
to
employ
a
teacher
for
the
entire
classroom.
It
doesn't
matter
how
many
kids
show
up
that
day
and
just
from
kde
standpoint
and
working
with
the
legislature
heading
into
this
recent
special
session.
K
So
much
time
and
energy
was
spent
and
has
been
spent
over
the
last
almost
two
years,
trying
to
figure
out
how
to
count
attendance
rather
than
focusing
on
what
instructional
models
will
help
students
most,
and
I
really
think
that
if
we
can
get
this
right,
a
transition
to
membership
will
allow
us
to
focus
on
what
really
reaches
children
the
best
and
not
about
the
financial
side,
which
is
very
important.
But
it
should
not
be
our
ultimate
goal.
So
I
really
really
appreciate
that
to
representative
banda's
other
point.
K
It
really
sounds
like
we're
talking
about
maybe
more
of
a
resource
model.
We
figure
out.
What
do
we
need
and
then
how
do
we
pay
for
it?
I'm
afraid
that
that
might
be
expensive,
but
a
it
has
to
be
done
and
b,
there's,
probably
no
better
time
to
do
it
right
than
right
now.
So
I'm
excited
about
the
conversation
I
think
we're
having.
So
thank
you.
G
Mr,
let
me
offer
a
dissenting
opinion
on
this
point
and
I
need
to
go
no
farther
than
what
we
did
in
legislature.
Back
in
1915,
I
mean
in
2020
15,
when
we
went
to
a
performance
funding
model
for
higher
education.
G
What
we
said,
then,
is
the
legislature-
and
you
might
remember,
senator
wise
that
was
in
your
second
year
in
your
first
year
as
a
member
of
the
senate,
we
said
that
we
want
to
fund
higher
education
based
upon
state
universities
that
retain
students
and
graduate
students.
In
other
words,
we
want
to
make
sure
that
those
students
come
through
our
state
universities,
pass
classes
on
state
universities
and
graduate
from
state
universities.
G
That's
what
we
want
to
emphasize
and
we
passed
that
as
a
legislature.
Okay,
now
what
we're
saying
today-
and
I
couldn't
I
couldn't
desert-
agree
more
with
representative
and
representative
band.
What
we're
saying
now
that
all
we
want
for
our
public
schools.
K-12
is
for
students
to
say
we're
a
member
okay
when
they
come
to
class,
whether
they
grab
where
they
pass
classes
where
they
graduate
now
becomes
irrelevant.
I
I
think
that
that
practically
is
the
worst
approach
to
take
and
I
think
that's
a
waste
of
taxpayers
money.
G
G
A
Thank
you,
senator
thomas
representative,
bantam.
C
I'm
going
to
owe
senator
thomas
lunch
after
this,
I
think,
but
to
kind
of
disagree
with
you,
oh
and
that's
great,
we're
gonna
agree
to
disagree.
Politely
and
kindly
I
think
teachers
work
harder.
C
It
drives
a
teacher
absolutely
out
of
their
minds
when
kids
are
absent,
teachers
will
call
kids
themselves,
they
get
kids
into
the
building.
It's
more
work
for
a
teacher
when
a
kid
when
a
child
is
absent
than
it
is
when
all
of
them
are
there.
So
I
I
kind
of
see
the
the
system
taking
care
of
itself,
because
the
whole
role
of
a
school
is
to
have
the
kids
there.
C
They
want
them
there
and
they'll
work
very
hard
to
get
them
there
and
they'll
take
care
of
them
when
they're
there
so
just
agreed
politely
degree
to
disagree.
Thank
you.
K
G
You
chuck,
I
am
going
to
disagree
with
you
and
I'll.
Tell
you
why
someone
disagree
with
you.
Okay,
I've
been
a
proponent
since
I
came
to
the
senate.
I've
been
on
this
education
committee,
since
I
got
here
that
that,
if
we
really
want
to
address
issues
like
poverty
and
equity,
we've
got
to
do
some
certain
things.
We've
got
to
fund
early
child
education,
okay,
that
that's
a
first
step.
That's
a
proven
step!
G
If
you
read
the
literature,
you
read
the
literature,
as
the
literature
tells
you
that
to
address
issues
like
poverty
and
race,
you
gotta
have
early
childhood
education,
okay,
and
so
I
think
that's
the
direction
that
we
want
to
go.
Okay,
we
don't
want
we,
we
don't
want
to
use
our
taxpayer
money
to
just
to
enroll
in
child
and
then
the
child
not
come
to
school
and
then
still
fun
didn't
fund
their
education.
That
I
I
tell
you
chuck
that's
a
waste
of
taxpayer
money.
G
A
D
So
on
this
slide,
we've
got
pros
and
cons,
and
I
want
you
to
notice
the
question
mark
because
I
think
there
will
always
be
and
I'm
thinking
of
a
perspective
as
a
person
who
talks
to
school
districts
pretty
frequently
about
you
know
the
way
we
operate
at
school
districts
so
obviously
ada
the
incentive
is
to
boost
attendance,
and
you
know
when
we
talk
about
chronic
absenteeism.
D
You
know
this
is
obviously
one
of
those
things
that
you
know
bothers.
Everybody
truancy
bothers
everybody.
So
I
want
to
be
very
clear,
too
that
and
we'll
talk
about
this
at
the
very
bottom,
but
I
want
to
kind
of
move
that
to
the
top,
because
to
me
this
is
a
very
important
factor,
and
you
know
the
way
we
see
this.
We
we
will
always
have
to
track
attendance
for
security
reasons
alone
and
safety
reasons.
D
You
need
to
know
how
many
students
are
in
your
building
and
which
students
are
where
this
is
even
during
today's
work
that
we
do
during
the
pandemic,
just
our
dpps
or
the
directors
of
people
personnel
are
tracking
where
these
students
are
because,
if
there's
an
incident
or
some
kind
of
problem,
they
need
to
know
where
these
students
are
so
obviously,
I
think
chuck
may
have
talked
about
this
a
little
bit
about
the
you
know:
poverty,
chronic
health
issues,
other
community
related
factors
and
then
ada
also
favors
districts,
obviously
with
higher
attendance
rates.
D
D
So
back
to
this
point
about,
you
still
have
to
have
teachers,
and
I
think
superintendent
borchers
had
mentioned
this.
You
know
districts
have
fixed
costs,
it
doesn't
matter
if
zero
kids
show
up
or
every
one
of
them
they
still
have
facilities.
They've
got
utility
bills,
insurance
you've
got
salaries.
You've
got
to
pay
your
custodian
to
be
there
to
clean
your
teachers,
have
to
teach
you
know
the
school
and
community
nutrition
staff
will
need
to
feed.
D
Now,
if
you
have
a
school
with
90
percent
attendance
and
95
attendance,
these
folks
working
there
are
still
going
to
be
there
and
doing
their
same
job.
It's
just
with
a
few
less
students,
so
that
cost
remains
pretty
much
constant.
No
matter
what
and
we
also
use
ada
to
refer
some
federal
reporting
and
some
other
state
needs
now
adm.
D
Is
you
know
if
you,
if
you
try
to
lay
it
on
the
same
line
as
ada?
Adm
is
a
higher
number
for
districts,
because
that
attendance
factor
and
all
those
adjustments
are,
you
know
taken
out,
so
your
per
pupil
funding
amount
will
appear
lower,
even
though
it
may
be
the
exact
same
dollar
amount
in
aggregate.
D
So
that's
something
to
be
aware
of
this.
Adm
is
a
higher
number
and
there's
some
different
administrative
burdens.
On
the
district
side,
like
I
mentioned
the
the
people
who
actually
track
attendance
and
things
today,
this
would
be
a
change
in
their
world.
Pretty
significant
change
at
that
and
again
to
really
emphasize
we're
always
going
to
have
to
track
attendance.
D
D
So
again,
any
questions
that
you
have
later
don't
hesitate
to
reach
out.
Mr
allen's
information
is
on
here
as
well
as
well
as
mine.
We
thank
you
for
your
time.
Today,
too,
we
really
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
talk
to
you
all
once
again.
A
We
appreciate
both
you
all
thank
you
for
the
presentation
was
excellent
discussion
and
thank
you
for
the
the
time
and
effort
put
into
that
any
questions
for
any
of
the
two
presenters
before
we
go
offline,
co-chair
tipton.
F
Thank
you,
mr
chair,
and
I
believe,
senator
thomas
last
week's
meeting
brought
up
some
comments
about
the
oea
report
and
some
discrepancies
with
the
way
that
kde
has
has
done
certain
things.
I
guess
I
know
you
sent
us
a
written
response
to
that.
Would
you
all
like
to
make
some
public
comments
about
that,
and
I
know
you
gave
some
explanations
and
while
we're
here
use
this
opportunity
to
discuss
that
that
portion,
the
oea
report.
D
Sure,
thank
you,
representative,
tipton
I'll,
just
preface
it
say.
Typically
and
historically,
we've
always
responded
in
writing
to
the
office
of
education,
accountability
and
we
do
the
same
thing
to
the
state
auditor's
office
and
I'll
say
this
respectfully.
We
don't
always
agree
with
the
office
of
education
accountability.
D
We
may
have
a
differing
opinion
on
some
of
their
recommendations
or
findings
if
you
will,
but
we
we
do
agree
and,
as
you'll
note
in
some
of
the
comments
we
made
back,
that
if
mistakes
are
being
made
in
the
formula
our
job,
our
sole
job
is
to
make
sure
that
calculation
is
accurate
to
that
point.
Starting
last
week,
we're
already
moving
to
make
these
changes
immediately
as
quickly
as
we
can
and
we're
going
to.
You
know,
work
very
hard
to
make
sure
these
calculations
are
accurate,
and
that
is
you
know
literally.
D
My
purpose
in
life
is
to
make
sure
these
calculations
are
accurate
for
each
district.
Now
some
of
these
are
not
going
to
be
significant
changes
in
the
formula
that
are
going
to
send
tens
of
millions
more
dollars
toward
one
district
or
anything
like
that.
A
lot
of
this
was
some
loose
ends
that
needed
to
be
a
lot
tighter.
D
We
take
this
advice
under
consideration
and
obviously
it's
our
you
know,
mandate
if
you
will
and
as
well
as
our
responsibility
to
make
sure
this
stuff
is
accurate.
That's
all
there
is
to
it.
So
we
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
speak
to
that
thanks
for
that
opportunity,
representative.
F
Please
proceed.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I
do
have
a
one
specific
question
regarding
your
report
and
and-
and
I
asked
this
because
I
have
filed
br
275
full
day-
kindergarten
going
funding
going
forward,
and
in
that
report
they
stated
that
when
the
funds
were
put
in
the
budget
in
this
fiscal
year
there
was
not
equalization
and
that's
something
the
general
assembly
should
do
going
forward.
Could
you
comment
on
that
about
the
importance
of
that
and
how
that
would
work
and
the
impact
of
that?
Whether
it's
equalized
or
not,.
D
And
which
one
was
this,
this.
D
Okay
sure
so
the
the
process.
This
would
be
a
little
convoluted
but
and
we've
already
started
discussions
with
the
state
budget
director's
office
and
our
process
will
be
going
forward.
You
know
we
will
set
this
statewide
equalization
level
and
when
full
kindergarten
funding
was
added.
D
Our
budget
proposal
had
already
been
sent
to
the
governor's
office.
Obviously
the
governor's
budget
proposal
had
been
you
know
out
and,
and
then
you
all
did
yours,
so
those
students
that
half
of
the
kindergarten
population,
50
of
them
weren't
included
in
that
statewide
equalization
and,
I
believe,
office,
education,
accountability,
kind
of
pointed
it
out
for
a
couple
reasons,
one
is
the
obvious
which
is
well.
The
adjustment
was
never
made
to
that
and
for
accuracy
purposes,
they're
absolutely
correct,
but
in
our
mind
too,
to
be
clear.
D
This
was
it
was
pretty
late
in
the
process
when
that
was
added
so
to
change,
the
equalization
level
would
have
meant
changing
equalizations
for
many
many,
almost
every
school
district.
Basically,
the
the
entire
department
of
education
budget
for
seek
would
have
necessarily
shifted
at
least
a
little
bit,
not
necessarily
a
whole
lot,
but
a
little
bit
anyway.
So
it
will
be
important
going
forward
and
this
will
be
included
in
the
calculation.
We
do
for
the
upcoming
budget
that
these
students
are
included
in
that
statewide.
D
There's
an
average
per
pupil
assessment
calculation
that
we
use
that
sets
that
equalization
level,
so
that
equalization
level
is
in
turn
used
to
determine,
for
example,
how
much
superintendent
borcher's
district
will
get
in
nickel
equalization
tier
one
funding
the
same
for
dr
fletcher
down
there
that
you
know
this
equalization,
but
now
we
will
include
that
full
kindergarten
if
it's
fully
funded
again.
Of
course,
that's
assuming
that
does
that
help
answer
your
question
representative.
Thank
you.
K
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
just
to
follow
up.
I
think,
on
on
what
che
was
explaining.
Is
that
equalization
level,
which
I
think
is
834
thousand
dollars
in
this
biennium,
is
set
during
the
budget
process,
and
that
number
is
essentially
derived
from
the
the
property
assessment
numbers
in
the
first
year.
K
The
biennium
as
forecast
and
the
general
assembly
has
never
changed
that
throughout
the
budget
process,
as
long
as
I've
been
involved
in
it,
so
that
equalization
level
doesn't
change
from
year,
one
to
year
two
of
the
biennium
anyway,
and
so
I
think
what
che
was
saying
and
what
I'm
trying
to
add
to
that
is.
That
is
like
all
things
in
seek.
That
is
a
self-correcting
mechanism
so
going
forward.
If
we
include
all
kindergarten
students-
and
hopefully
br
275-
passes
this
year,
we
all
hope
it
does.
K
A
Thank
you
chuck
see
no
further
questions
or
comments.
Mr
ritter,
mr
allen,
thank
you
all
so
much
and
todd
we
do
have
unanimous
consensus
for
you
to
keep
the
mustache.
I
just
want
you
to
know
from
committee
members.
I.
A
You're
welcome
the
next
and
last
portion
of
our
presentation,
for
today
is
to
do
a
discussion
of
possible
task
force
recommendations.
I
know
we've
got
some
members
in
here.
Who've
been
a
part
of
task
force
and
working
groups
before
some
others
that
have
not
been
remember.
We
have
eight
voting
members
that
made
up
of
legislators.
A
Then
we
have
our
non-voting
attendees,
that
being
those
that
are
from
kde
superintendents
and
kentucky
school
board
association,
but
I
would
like
to
have
this
time
for
us
to
have
a
really
good
in-depth,
just
like
we
had
before
this
and
what
we've
had
in
previous
meetings.
I've
have
some
good
recommendations
as
we
go
forward.
A
Remember
next
month,
we'll
be
meeting
on
november,
the
8th
and
with
that
date
we
will
take
those
recommendations
we
can
vote
on
those
or
we
can
just
submit
those
as
co-chairs
to
lrc
and
to
also
the
leadership
of
both
the
house
and
the
senate.
So
at
this
time
I'm
happy
to
entertain
any
members
that
have
possible
recommendations
we
go
forward.
I
think
the
first
one
we
have
is
representative
bojanowski.
B
All
right,
so
I've
been
uncharacteristically
quiet
during
this
meeting,
but
when,
when
we
went
over
the
oe
the
the
report
last
week,
I
did
make
a
request
for
additional
data,
and
so
definitely
just
on
the
surface
before
I
could
make
any
recommendations.
I'd
want
to
see
an
evaluation
of
the
impact
on
quintiles
that
are
based
on
poverty
and
also
in
an
evaluation
of
special
education
and
at-risk
impact.
That
would
include
federal
funds,
but
that's
on
the
surface.
B
I
think
that
the
big
question
here
is
that
we
need
to
go
back
and
think
about
the
calling
in
rose
in
the
rose
decision
on
adequacy
and
just
a
brief
quote.
A
system
of
common
schools
must
be
adequately
funded
to
achieve
its
goals
and
substantially
uniform
throughout
the
state,
so
that
every
child
in
the
state
is
provided
with
an
equal
opportunity
to
have
an
adequate
education.
B
B
Why
are
twenty
percent
of
the
students
in
quintile
one
special
education
students?
What
is
going
on
societally,
that
is
impacting
our
students
and
that's
very
important
to
try
to
to
meet
the
decision
of
adequacy.
So
while
we
may
not
be
able
to
change
the
societal
impacts
on
education,
we
definitely
fully
need
to
understand
how
those
issues
are
impacting
students
so
that
we
can
make
funding
decisions
that
will
give
every
child
the
opportunity
to
have
an
adequate
education.
B
So
my
recommendation
at
this
point
would
be
before
we
go
and
change
our
seek
formula.
I
think
there
needs
to
be
a
task
force
such
as
this
that
really
digs
into
what
is
adequacy.
How
are
we,
you
know?
How
are
we
doing
with
our
goals
of
public
education
as
we
have
in
statute?
The
eight
eight
goals-
and
it
would
include
a
study
on
why
we
have
so
many
special
education
students-
why
we
have
so
many
at-risk
students
and
what
is
the
research
on
how
we
can
adequately
educate
all
of
our
students?
Thank
you.
C
Yes,
I
would
just
like
to
completely
agree
with
representative
bojanowski.
I
would
like
to
have
all
that
data,
but
in
the
meantime
I
would
like
to
have
the
seek
formula
just
brought
up
to
the
cost
of
living,
not
changing
it,
but
I
would
like
it
to
be
to
be
raised
to
where
it
should
be,
so
that
schools
can
adequately
run
while
we're
doing
all
the
studies
that
you
are
saying,
because
I
think
they're
very
important.
Thank
you.
H
Thank
you,
chairman,
wise,
just
a
few
recommendations
from
a
superintendent's
standpoint
and
talking
with
other
of
our
colleagues,
I
think
two
areas
that
we
really
feel
that,
if
we
could
come
out
of
this
general
session
with
we'd
be
very
happy
with
one
of
them
is
full
day
kindergarten.
That
is
a
tremendous
help
to
all
districts.
The
second
one
is
fully
funding
transportation.
H
I
don't
think
they're
mutually
exclusive,
and
the
reason
for
that
is
if
we
can,
if
we
just
like,
I
said
earlier,
the
oea
report
basically
was
given
in
a
way
of
how
can
we
keep
the
state
funding
as
is
or
the
state
budget,
as
is
and
make
these
changes
for
equity
purposes
such
as
at-risk
students
such
as
rural
districts?
Other
items
like
that?
Well,
basically,
again,
what
we're
doing
is
we're
if
we
don't
add
funding
to
the
general
budget,
then
we're
taking
away
from
some
groups
and
adding
to
others.
H
Now
I
will
tell
you
I'll
be
the
first
to
tell
you
that
lawrence
county
would
benefit
from
all
of
this,
but
instead
of
bringing
other
districts
to
a
lower
rate
or
lower
funding,
I
think
it
would
be
better
to
bring
other
districts
up
and
and
for
example,
these
two.
The
two
examples
I
gave
you
are
adequacy.
H
You
know
basically,
those
are
adequacy,
in
other
words,
that
extra
funding
is
going
to
be
added
and
that
will
bring
everybody
up,
but
as
far
as
the
others,
if
we
do
anything
with
an
add-on
whether
and
even
if
we
go
from
88
to
80m,
I
would
ask
that
the
legislator
would
seriously
consider
some
type
of
hold
harmless.
In
other
words,
we
don't
drop,
a
district
doesn't
drop
below
current
funding
similar
to
what
was
done.
I
think
we
have
two
districts
that
are
in
quintile.
H
Five
lion,
county
and
livingston
county
are
at
a
are
hold
harmless
districts;
in
other
words,
they
don't
drop
below
the
1990
funding
precara.
If
the
same
type
of
thing
would
be
enacted,
and
what
would
happen
is
we
would
bring
our
quintile
five
districts
or
lower
property
districts
up
without
bringing
the
quintile
one
down
now?
Also
too,
if
you'll
notice,
even
with
some
of
those
add-ons,
even
your
quintile
5
would
lose
money,
so
the
formula
itself
doesn't
guarantee
a
low
property
or
low-valued
property
district
from
getting
more
money.
H
A
J
Thank
you
senator
wise.
I
would
echo
my
support
for
full
day
kindergarten
and
fully
funding
transportation
as
well,
but
equity
and
funding
at
school
districts
across
the
commonwealth
from
the
poorest
to
the
wealthiest
districts
was
the
foundation
upon
which
rose
decision
and
care
were
built
in
order
for
the
commonwealth
to
continue
to
increase
equity
and
funding
to
all
districts.
J
I
have
a
few
suggestions
and
they
go
along
with
the
spirit
of
what
representative
bana
talked
about
earlier
about
there
being
no
losers,
I
would
advocate
for
adding
a
foster
child
care
add-on
onto
the
seek
formula,
as
recommended
by
oea
report.
The
estimate
of
the
cost
to
the
state
budget
was
1.2
million
dollars.
It
would
increase
equity
in
funding
across
all
quintiles
and
support
districts.
Efforts
in
educating
students
in
foster
care,
many
of
which
are
actions
specifically
required,
either
by
the
state
or
federal
laws,
but
for
which
there
is
no
specific
funding
set
aside.
J
J
This
adjustment
would
provide
additional
support
to
nearly
all
districts
except
one
and
increase
funding
equity
across
the
commonwealth,
with
the
added
effect
of
increasing
the
amount
of
add-ons
for
at-risk
and
exceptional
children
and
english
language
learners.
With
regard
to
english
language
learners,
the
current
add-on
is
385
dollars,
which
is
far
too
low.
The
factor
for
calculating
that
add-on
needs
to
be
reviewed
and
upwardly,
adjusted
to
more
accurately
reflect
districts,
cost
of
resources
needed
to
educate
english
language
learner
students.
J
Finally,
the
report
from
oea
shows
that
districts
have
done
their
part
since
1990
by
raising
their
local
property
tax
rates
in
an
effort
to
provide
a
quality
education
to
the
children
in
their
community,
but
over
time,
as
the
oea
report
shows
not
all
districts,
I'm
sorry.
It
shows
that
all
districts
serve
more
students
in
poverty
and
more
exceptional
students
and
over
the
time
many
programs
have
been
have
not
seen
their
funding
have
seen
their
funding
be
stagnant
and
as
one
example
in
the
oea
report,
average
teacher
salaries
have
not
grown
over
along
with
inflation.
J
The
time
is
right
for
the
edge
for
the
legislature
to
take
some
steps
to
increase
funding
for
the
state
from
the
state
in
an
equitable
fashion,
to
all
districts
across
the
commonwealth,
and
while
I
have
the
opportunity,
I
just
want
to
say
thank
you
to
you
senator
wise
and
you
representative,
timpton,
for
including
school
board,
members
and
superintendents
in
this
discussion.
I
really
appreciate
it.
Thank.
K
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
I
want
to
echo
ms
page's
thanks
for
including
non-legislators
on
this
panel,
and
I
want
to
point
out,
as
you
said
earlier,
that
we
are
non-voting
members
of
this
panel
and
so
had
we
been
that
motion
on
todd,
allen's
mustache
would
not
have
passed
unanimously.
Not
even
close.
I'm
just
saying
on
those
points.
K
I
want
to
echo
again
the
the
need
for
early
childhood
education
full
day,
kindergarten
transportation,
because
I
think
transportation
is
an
equity
issue,
because
the
districts
that
lose
out
the
most
when
we
don't
fully
fund
transportation
are
those
rural
districts
that
have
a
lot
of
miles
to
travel
and
when
they
lose
population,
they
don't
all
lose
it
in
the
same
community.
It's
it's
evenly
distributed,
and
so
those
buses
still
have
to
run
the
same
piece.
K
I
do
support
the
idea
of
a
foster
care
add-on,
but
I
think
when
we're
looking
at
those
add-ons,
you
know
when
those
were
set
back
in
the
early
90s.
Those
weights
were
set
by
research
and
the
cost
of
the
additional
cost
of
educating
those
students
adequately,
and
so
I
think
the
time
is
ripe
for
us
to
conduct
another
study
or
contract
for
another
study
to
see
what
are
the
actual
costs
of
educating
those
exceptional
students.
K
K
If
you
look
back
at
the
statute,
the
way
the
exceptional
children
was
originally
envisioned,
gifted
and
talented
students
were
part
of
that
cohort
and
we've
moved
those
into
a
separate
bucket
of
money
in
the
large
budget
unit.
But
you
know
that
that
has
not
increased
with
seek
over
time
and
to
that
same
point
you
know-
and
I'm
I'm
sorry
if
I'm
I'm
on
a
soapbox
here,
but
we
tend
to
think
of
when
we're
talking
about
these
quintiles.
K
K
Not
all
students
in
lawrence
county
are
the
same,
not
all
students
in
ludlow
or
jefferson
or
fayette,
or
any
of
them
they're
not
evenly
distributed
those
larger
districts
and
senator
thomas.
You
know
this
as
well
as
anyone
you've
got
brilliant,
gifted
and
talented
students
in
some
of
the
lowest
performing
schools
in
fayette
county
such
as
winburg
and
you've
got
some
very
low
performing
students
in
the
quote:
unquote
best
schools.
K
And
so
you
know,
I
think
we
need
to
stop
thinking
about
educating
districts,
educating
schools
and
more
focused
on
educating
students,
and
I
think
the
sikh
formula
is
geared
toward
that.
So
I
think
that's
one
thing
that
we
can.
We
can
really
look
at,
but
when
we
focus
on
seek,
I
think
we
leave
out
some
of
the
other
items
and
and
I'm
on
board
with
including
more
things
in
seek,
as
can
be
equitably
done.
K
One
of
those
is
we've
sort
of,
I
won't
say,
glossed
over
facilities,
but
facilities
are
a
source
of
huge
inequities
in
this
commonwealth
and
there
is
a
local
component
to
funding
that.
But,
quite
frankly,
there
are
some
districts
that
can't
get
local
support
for
raising
additional
funds
for
facilities
and
at
some
point
we
are
going
to
run
into
the
very
serious
problem
of
having
almost
palaces
in
some
districts
and
crumbling
wpa
era,
buildings
in
other
districts,
and
I
think
we
need
to.
Maybe
one
of
my
recommendations
would
be.
K
We
look
at
a
deeper
dive
into
school
facilities,
maybe
next
year
or
sometime
in
the
near
future
career
tech.
Education
is
another
area
where
we
have
deeply
inequitable
funding
and
that's
not
based
on
the
number
of
students.
That's
not
based
on
the
courses
they
take
it's
based
entirely
on.
Well,
when
did
you
start
your
program?
And
if
you
met
the
cutoff,
they
then
hey
you
get
funding.
K
It's
just
going
to
be
like
toyota
was
in
the
80s
you're
going
to
have
all
of
these
all
this
growth
throughout
the
state
for
those
suppliers,
and
that's
why
we
need
cte
students
throughout
the
state
and
not
just
in
that
one
location
and
the
final
thing
I'll
say
before
I
get
off
my
soapbox
is
when
we're
talking
about
fully
funded
things
talking
about
kindergarten.
Talking
about
fully
funding
transportation.
K
I'd
like
to
see
2019
senate
bill
1
fully
funded.
I
think
we
need
more
mental
health
professionals,
and
that
is
a
huge
equity
issue,
and
I
think
that
goes
back
to
what
representative
banta
said
about
sort
of
that
resource
allocation.
We
need
to
fund
the
things
that
need
to
be
funded,
and
that
is
one
area
that
you
know
back
in
cara.
K
One
of
the
big
things
if
nothing
else
was
friskies-
and
I
think
this
is
the
modern
equivalent
of
friskies-
is
getting
students-
those
supports
that
they
need
so
that
when
they
come
walk
into
the
classroom,
they're
ready
to
learn
and
not
focused
on
all
the
other
issues
that
they're
dealing
with.
I
want
them
focused
on
math
and
reading
and
history
and
science,
and
not
their
home
life
situation
or
thoughts
of
suicide
or
other
mental
problems
that
they
may
be
having
other
behavioral
issues
they
may
be
having.
K
So
that's
a
lot,
but
I
think
I
think
this.
This
task
force
has
made
a
lot
of
effort
to
learn
about
a
lot
of
things
and
it's
we
may
have
bitten
off
more
than
we
can
chew,
but
I
think
nobody's
gonna
fault
us
for
doing
that.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
A
Chuck,
I
can't
thank
you
enough
for
your
comments
and
your
institutional
knowledge
does
not
go
unnoticed
of
how
much
of
an
important
asset
you
are
to
kde
and
as
well
as
the
commonwealth.
So
thank
you
for
each
and
every
one
of
those
comments
that
you
made.
I
could
not
agree
more
about
facilities
if
there's
one
thing
as
a
legislator,
I
think
I
maybe
could
speak
for
all
138
members.
A
We
hear
a
lot
from
our
superintendents
and
our
districts
is
about
facilities
and
I
think
that
always
going
to
be
there,
and
I
do
think
that
maybe
looking
at
that
from
a
task
force
issue
is
something
we've
brought
before
members
of
facilities
commission
in
front
of
education
in
the
interim.
But
I
do
think
that
needs
to
be
something
that
we
look
at
as
well.
Superintendent,
fletcher.
H
I
I
want
to
echo
what
mr
truesdell
said
again
about
facilities
and
everything
from
top
to
bottom
of
what
was
mentioned.
There
is
such
an
inequity
across
our
state
when
it
comes
to
facilities,
but
the
other
reason
why
I
wanted
to
take
this
opportunity
to
thank
members
of
this
group
for
allowing
superintendents
to
be
represented
for
allowing
other
members
from
kde
to
also
to
ksba
or
I'm
sorry,
school
board
association.
H
A
F
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
I'll
echo
those
comments.
I
truly
appreciate
everyone's
participation
in
this
process.
This
is
an
enormous
task
that
we
have
undertaken,
and
I
think
it's
important
for
us
to
understand
that
these
are
issues
we're
not
going
to
resolve
in
the
next
session
totally.
F
F
I
will
point
out
those
are
typically
budget
decisions.
You
mentioned
transportation
statute
already
says
we
fully
fund
transportation,
but
that
hasn't
that's
been
not
withstood
since
2004.,
and
I
think
we
all
understand
the
history
of
some
of
the
financial
economic
difficulties
that
the
state
has
faced,
particularly
the
downturn,
the
economy
in
2008.
F
we've
seen
some
improvement.
I
know
people
in
the
education
community
are
very
much
aware
there
were.
I
think
it
was
from
08
to
maybe
16
the
teachers.
Retirement
system
was
not
fully
funded
from
back
a
little
after
2000
to
about
14
the
krs
system
wasn't
fully
funded.
We've
made
the
commitment
to
do
that.
So
that's
taken
a
lot
of
additional
funds
back
in
the
2020
a
budget
conference
committee.
F
F
We
did
not
know
what
the
financial
outlook
was
going
to
be,
so
some
decisions
were
made
to
basically
hold
tight
to
our
existing
budget.
Now
we're
in
2022.
I
am
relieved
that
the
impact
to
covet
in
the
response
to
the
economy
afterward
has
not
been
as
severe
as
some
of
us
thought
it
might
be.
So
we
are
in
a
unique
situation
to
make
some
very
important
decisions
and
just
like
education,
I
can
already
tell
you.
F
I've
had
many
meeting
requests
from
many
different
entities
requesting
additional
funding
going
into
2022.,
so
we
just
remember
we're
making
recommendations
on
the
mechanism,
but
the
real
discussions
are
going
to
be
when
we
get
into
the
budget
discussion.
So
I
just
want
to
remind
everybody
of
that,
and
I
think
we've
had
a
lot
of
good
comments.
Comments
made
here
and
I'll
certainly
be
considering
them
between
now
and
our
next
meeting.
Thank
everybody
for
their
participation,
co-chair.
A
Tipton,
thank
you.
I
want
to
thank
you
for
your
leadership
on
on
this
task
force.
I
appreciate
always
your
indulgence
you
getting
into
the
issue.
I
appreciate
your
research
you're,
a
very
thoughtful
legislator,
and
I
appreciate
the
time
of
commitment
you've
made
to
this.
I
want
to
thank
all
of
the
other
legislators
that
have
been
participants
in
this,
as
we've
been
charged
to
go
forward,
and
I
also
want
to
thank
all
of
our
non-voting
members.
A
I
think
the
only
way
to
be
effective
in
the
job
that
we
can
do
in
frankfurt
is
to
listen
and
listen
to
all
sides
and
bring
everyone
to
the
table,
and
I
think
that
was
a
charge
that
this
group
has
done
very
well
in
a
very
complex
issue
going
into
becoming
a
legislator.
I
never
knew
the
complexities
of
the
seek
formula
and
I'm
not
for
sure.
A
When
I
leave
his
legislator,
I
will
understand
all
the
complexities
that
seek
formula,
but
I
also
want
to
thank
kde
and
all
of
the
presenters
through
this
entire
process
that
have
brought
this
down
to
a
very
good
common
sense
understanding
for
for
many
of
us-
and
I
cannot
thank
all
the
presenters
and
everyone
we've
had
present
to
us
this
entire
interim.
So
thank
each
and
every
one
of
you,
so
we
will
go
forward
next
month.
On
november
8th,
we
will
take
these
recommendations
under
consideration.