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From YouTube: Unemployment Insurance Reform Task Force
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A
We
will
meet
several
times
over
the
interim
and
are
required
to
submit
any
findings
and
recommendations
to
the
legislative
research
commission
by
december,
2nd
2021,
I'm
going
to
ask
sasha
to
call
the
roll.
I
ask
each
member
when
answering
the
role
to
indicate
in
their
response
whether
they
are
here
in
the
room
or
here
remotely
legislative
members.
If
you
are
remote,
please
let
us
know
if
you
are
in
your
annex
office
or
participating
from
your
district
sasha.
Please
call
the
roll.
D
B
B
G
A
Present
in
the
room
for
those
of
you
participating
remotely,
our
committee
staff
is
monitoring
the
chat
function
in
the
zoom
application.
Please
indicate
in
the
check
chat
box.
If
you
have
a
question
or
want
to
make
a
comment,
if
you
are
speaking
remotely,
please
keep
your
microphone
muted
until
you
are
going
to
speak,
co-chair
nemas,
anything
that
you
would
like
to
say
before
we
begin
our
presenters.
G
G
This
is
a
a
very
personal
and
emotional
issue,
so
we
want
to
try
to
keep
it
as
professional
as
we
can,
so
we
can
do
the
best
for
kentucky.
Thank
you.
A
A
A
All
right
and
then
after
they
are
finished
with
their
presentation,
we
will
have
secretary
roberts,
director,
hoskinson
and
director
eves
come
forward,
and
I
think
we
might
have
some
questions
from
from
our
presenters
as
well
as
members
of
the
committee
on
that.
I'm
going
to
ask
each
of
the
three
of
you
to
introduce
yourselves
for
the
record
and
after
you've
done
so
kate,
you
can
go
ahead
and
begin
your.
B
Yes,
hi,
I'm
courtney
meador,
I'm
the
hr
director
with
halton's
food
group.
We
have
partnered
with
george
mcfarland
and
his
team
for
many
many
years
and
they
handle
all
aspects
of
our
unemployment
claims,
and
so
I've
asked
him
to
speak
on
our
behalf
today.
As
he's
truly
the
one
that
has
experienced
the
the
brunt
of
the
unemployment
claims
and
the
fraud
for
our
company.
H
Thank
you
and
thank
you
chairman
again.
I'm
kate
shanks
vice
president
of
public
affairs
for
the
kentucky
chamber
of
commerce.
I
know
my
mic
wasn't
on
so
for
those
that
are
virtually
participating,
but
thank
you
for
allowing
us
to
speak
on
this
really
important
topic.
I
am
no
stranger
to
unemployment
insurance.
I
know
you
all
have
heard
from
me.
H
Often,
you
heard
from
me
throughout
session
on
this
topic
dealing
with
the
challenges
of
unemployment
insurance
as
they
affect
businesses,
was
one
of
our
top
agenda
items
for
the
2021
session,
and
I
have
to
start
by
thanking
you
all
for
really
tackling
this
issue
head
on
the
funds
that
you
appropriated
to
help
us
pay
off
our
federal
loan.
That
was
huge
for
us
that
helps
us
avoid
federal
interest
and
penalties,
and
it
helps
us
start
to
dig
out
of
the
you
know:
1.1
1.2
billion
dollar
hole
that
was
created
during
the
pandemic.
H
Of
course,
chairman
house
bill
413.
That
legislation
was
important
in
recognizing
the
ui
tax,
the
unemployment
insurance
tax.
It
would
have
hit
employers
this
year,
putting
a
freeze
on
that
as
we
continue
to
work
through
these
policies,
and
then
we
also
supported
senate
bill
7,
which
senator
gibbons
brought
forward
that
dealt
with
the
waiver
callback
funds
as
well
as
starting
to
tackle
fraud,
and
that's
what
we're
here
to
talk
about
with
you
all
today.
H
This
is
a
very
important
issue
for
the
business
community
and
unfortunately,
we
are
continuing
to
get
it
with
fraudulent
claims.
I
was
passing
by
my
cfo
last
week
and
he
was
on
the
phone
reporting
to
our
hr
director
that
we
had
gotten
another
fraudulent
claim,
so
this
is
affecting
all
of
us.
I
think
I
think,
if
you
talk
to
most
businesses,
they
will
tell
you
that
they've
had
hits
in
this
particular
situation.
I
think
benefits
had
actually
been
paid
out.
H
We
hadn't
had
a
chance
to
appeal,
and
so
there
were,
there
were
clearly
some
challenges
that
we
were
dealing
with
and
it
wasn't
the
first
one
and
I
think
that
really
reflects
what
businesses
as
a
whole
are
experiencing.
H
I
will
say
that
this
is
not
a
kentucky
specific
problem,
nor
is
it
a
pandemic.
Specific
problem,
and
actually
in
the
in
the
first
12
months
of
the
pandemic,
the
u.s
department
of
labor
estimated
that
at
least
63
billion
was
paid
out
in
improper
and
fraudulent
claims,
and
this
is
more
than
double
about
30
billion
paid
out
in
2019,
so
before
the
pandemic
hit.
So
this
is
a
problem
that
we
have
been
dealing
with
in
the
system,
and
this
is
a
problem
that
is
not
specific
to
kentucky
it's
nationwide.
H
We
do
hope
that
the
problem
is
getting
better
and
is
resolving.
I
know
the
cabinet
has
put
some
protocols
in
place
and
hopefully
we're
seeing
the
fraudulent
claims
on
the
decline,
but
we
want
to
just
make
sure
that
employers
are
doing
all
they
can
to
properly
report.
The
claims
that-
and
we
believe
this
to
be
the
case-
their
experience
rating
isn't
impacted
by
these
fraudulent
claims
and
that
they're
taking
all
the
steps
they
need
to
take
to
make
sure
they're,
notifying
the
cabinet
and
doing
whatever
is
expected
of
them
to
protect
themselves.
H
We
also
want
to
better
understand
that
when
a
claim
is
paid
out,
you
know
how.
How
does
that
impact
the
trust
fund?
Does
it
impact
the
trust
fund,
trust
fund
balance,
and
where
do
those
funds
come
from?
Of
course,
I'll
go
ahead
and
point
out.
Typically,
it
is
just
employers
that
pay
into
the
unemployment
insurance
trust
fund.
I
know
this.
Last
year
we
got
federal
money
to
pay
down
the
loan,
but
in
a
typical
environment
in
a
typical
situation,
it
is
just
employers
that
are
paying
in.
H
So
if
claims
are
being
paid
out
fraudulently,
then
it
it's
easy
for
me
to
get
to
the
point
that
employers
are
paying.
Those
that's
coming
out
of
their
pockets,
ultimately,
is
what
our
understanding
is,
and
then
also
I
do.
I
do
want
to
point
out
too
that
this
is
something
that
we've
been
working
on
for
a
while.
H
We
supported
legislation
a
couple
of
years
ago
to
start
the
process
of
replacing
what
is
our
unemployment
insurance
system?
I
guess
portal
is
the
right
way
to
describe
it.
We
supported
a
bill
that
would
actually
siphon
off
a
little
bit
of
the
ui
tax
funds
that
employers
are
paying
in
to
redesign
and
rebuild
the
actual
system,
because
we
recognize
that
there
were
some
shortcomings
and
we
know
that,
in
addition
to
individuals
that
are
using
the
system
to
make
claims,
employers
are
in
there
as
well,
but
there's
not
a
lot
of
information.
H
Employers
can
get
from
the
system,
there's
not
a
lot
of
ways
for
them
to
interact
and-
and
I
know
george
can
speak
more
to
these
details
if
you're
interested,
but
just
how
you
go
about
reporting
a
fraudulent
claim.
Is
there
any
way
to
actually
flag
a
claim
quickly?
That's
been
that
is
a
fraudulent
or
potentially
fraudulent
claim
the
appeals
process.
H
So
there's
a
lot
of
just
just
different
layers
of
the
system
that
we
have
been
sort
of
peeling
back,
to
figure
out
how
we
can
make
improvements,
not
only
for
the
claimant
but
the
employer's
perspective.
That's
utilizing
the
system
as
well,
so
we
are
eager
and
co-chaired.
My
nemesis,
I
appreciate
your
comments.
We
agree
that
we
want
to
roll
up
our
sleeves
and
figure
out
how
we
can
get
to
some
solutions.
H
H
We
want
to
be
as
helpful
as
possible
because
we
know
this
is
an
important
issue
for
the
business
community
going
forward,
and
you
know
these
fraudulent
claims
they
have
to
stop
and
we
have
to
find
ways
to
stop,
and
we
want
to
be
a
partner
in
that,
but
I
did
want
to
bring
with
me
the
these
a
couple
of
experts
that
can
talk
more
specifically
about
their
experiences.
I
know
that
that's
valuable
for
these
task
forces
so
with
me
today
are
my
colleagues
from
houchins
they've
introduced
themselves.
H
Courtney
matters
hr
director
with
houchin's
food
group
and
george
mcfarland
who's
going
to
work,
who
works
closely
on
ui
for
the
houchins
group
and
george
is
going
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
their
specific
experience
with
these
claims
and
so
chairman.
If
it's,
okay
with
you,
I'd
like
to
turn
it
over
to
george,
to
go
ahead
and
provide
some
comments
as
well.
I
I
want
to
commend
the
cabinet
and
its
workers
for
the
hard
work
that
they
have
put
in
in
trying
to
make
sure
that
not
only
are
the
claimants
being
served,
but
the
employers
are
at
the
same
time
that
their
needs
are
being
addressed,
and
I
think
it's
a
tough
task
for
all
of
us,
as
we've
dealt
with
the
pandemic,
to
try
to
work
through
some
of
the
difficulties
that
we've
had
over
the
last
year
and
a
half
I've
been
working
in
unemployment
compensation.
Since
I
left
college,
I
left
college
in
19.
I
Well,
I
don't
tell
how
old
I
am,
but
I
left
college
a
long
time
ago
and
I
have
not
had
an
experience
that
we've
had
over
the
last
year
and
a
half
with
unemployment
compensation.
Since
then,
when
I
left
college,
we
had
a
high
unemployment
rate
at
that
time,
and
we
had.
I
I
worked
for
the
state
of
illinois
and
we
had
the
commissioner
from
the
state
come
into
our
central
office
downtown
chicago,
and
these
words
is
what-
and
this
is
what
he
said
to
to
us
in
trying
to
deal
with
the
excess
of
unemployment
compensation
that
we
were
dealing
with,
and
he
simply
said,
pay
everybody
well.
That
is
how
I
felt
during
this
recent
pandemic.
I
We
have
had
an
onslaught
of
unemployment
claims
like
I
have
never
seen
under
normal
circumstances.
We
may
have
with
the
number
of
companies
that
we
represent.
We
may
have
30
to
40
unemployment
claims
during
the
course
of
a
day.
However,
during
this
recent
pandemic
we
were
receiving
as
many
as
four
to
500
unemployment
claims
a
day
it
was
overwhelming.
I
I
They
have
provided
us
a
link
for
a
number
of
unemployment
claims
that
we
believe
were
fraudulent
claims
and
we
have
used
that
tremendously
to
take
advantage
of
some
of
the
overwhelming
claims
that
we've
received.
However,
there
have
been
ongoing
issues
with
that
because,
as
you
know
this
this
experience
or
it
affects
our
experience
rating
system,
and
we
have
great
concern
over
that.
I
Now
I
have
a
couple
of
things
here
that
I
I
want
to
bring
out
one
of
them
that
or
one
of
the
problems
that
we're
having
as
far
as
the
fraudulent
claims
are
concerned,
is
that
on
not
only
are
we
asked
to
provide
separation
information
on
on
many
of
the
claims
that
have
come
in,
but
we're
asked
to
provide
timely
separation
on
these
fraudulent
claims
and
it
has
created
a
hardship
not
only
for
the
for
the
customers
that
we
serve
now
at
houchins
and
other
companies,
but
it
has
created
a
hardship
on
our
staff.
I
I
The
time
that
it
takes
to
process
an
unemployment
claim
is
longer
than
one
person
might
even
imagine.
Not
only
are
we
to
provide
detailed
separation
information,
but
again
that's
creation.
Information
must
be
provided
in
a
timely
fashion,
and
that
has
been
a
real
challenge
for
us
now.
One
of
the
things
that
is
going
on
with
many
of
these
unemployment
claims,
especially
these
fraudulent
claims,
is
what
we
call
phishing
emails
or
email
scams.
I
These
are
situations
where
a
common
unemployment,
insurance
scam
involves
phishing
emails,
and
it's
designed
like
it
is
designed
to
look
like
a
reputable
claim.
They
are
wrong.
They
are
simply
trying
to
find
or
get
information
from
individuals,
so
they
can
use
that
to
gain
monetary
advantage
of
them.
That
is
a
problem
I
wish
we
could
look
closely
on
how
to
deal
with
that.
There's
debit
and
direct
deposit
scams
that
people
use
to
provide
direct
information
on
their
debit
cards
or
their
credit
cards.
I
Their
fake
call
scams
their
job
seeker
scams.
There
are
many
scams
that
are
going
on
out
there
that
we
simply
are
not
ready
to
deal
with
and
again
I
don't
want
to
point
the
finger
at
anyone,
but
I
I
think
it
would
be
fair
to
say
and
and
if
I'm
wrong,
I
I
I
stand
accused,
but
I
think
it
would
be
fair
to
say
that
our
current
unemployment
system
is
outdated.
I
What
we
are
what
I
hope
we
are
able
to
address
here
in
the
next
few
meetings,
is
how
or
the
most
effective
way
to
update
our
system
so
that
the
scammers
and
the
fraudulent
fraudulent
claimers
will
not
be
able
to
take
advantage
of
the
system
and
other
people
who
are
trying
to
receive
unemployment
in
a
in
a
legitimate
fashion.
Thank
you
so
much
for
allowing
me
to
present
that
and
I
and
I
turn
it
back
over
to
our
to
our
leader.
H
Thank
you,
george
and
I'll
just
comment
that
you
know
the
speed
with
which
you
all
need
to
respond
to
these
claims.
The
number
of
claims
that
you
have
to
respond
to
and
also
something
I
think
that
is
important-
that
you
brought
up
about.
If,
if
we
can
all
agree
that
we
need
to
make
improvements
to
the
system,
how
quickly
can
we
do
that?
I
think
there's
probably
some
logistical
challenges
in
actually
designing
and
implementing
the
system.
I'm
looking
forward
to
hearing
from
the
cabinet
on
that.
H
But
how
quickly
can
we
do
that
and
are
there
any
safeguards
additional
safeguards
we
can
put
in
place
until
then?
You
know,
ultimately,
I
think
the
goal
is
for
kentucky
to
be
known
as
a
as
a
state
with
a
really
tough
system
to
hack
or
to
take
advantage
of,
and
you
know
if
this-
if
this
is
such
a
big
problem
nationally,
you
have
to
expect
that
there's
all
sorts
of
folks
out
there
that
are
taking
advantage.
H
It's
it's
probably
organized
in
some
way
to
do
that,
and
it
would
be
the
best
scenario
for
us
to
have
a
system.
That's
just
really
concrete
and
very
difficult
to
manipulate.
So
that's
what
we're
interested
in,
participating
in
and
learning
more
about
and
happy
to
answer
any
questions
that
you
all
might
have.
A
Mr
mcfarlane,
I
I
have
one
question
initially.
I
want
to
start
with
just
to
get
some
clarification
from
from
you.
You
commented
earlier
about
the
time
that
is
required
to
thank
you,
the
time
that
is
required
to
respond
to
an
unemployment
claim
on
the
business
side.
Can
you
give
us
just
a
general
rundown
as
to
how
much
time
that
that
requires
and
what
is
involved
in
responding
to
a
request
that
comes
to
you.
I
Sure
I'll
be
glad
to.
Generally
speaking,
we
have
in
the
state
of
kentucky,
for
example,
10
days
to
respond
by
mail
12
days
to
respond
electronically.
I
During
that
period,
when
a
claimant
files
a
claim,
they
will
file
the
claim
online
or
through
their
unemployment
office,
local
unemployment
office.
I
And
that
claim-
and
let
me
let
me
step
back
for
just
a
moment
and
and
again
this
is
I
I
don't
want
to
sound
like
I'm
griping,
but
some
of
you
may
or
may
not
know
that
we've
had
an
issue
on
going
with
our
postal
system
for
the
last
year
as
well.
I
I
When
we
receive
an
unemployment
claim,
we
have
to
provide
separation
information
on
that
claimant,
who
has
filed
the
claim
that
requires
that
we
get
information
from
our
from
many
of
our
workers,
for,
for
example,
in
the
state
of
kentucky
and
how
housing
works
is
that
we
have
payroll
clerks
in
which
we
receive
information
from
each
employee
that
has
separated
from
the
company
is
or
will
receive
a
a
final
notice
of
separation.
I
On
that
final
notice
of
the
separation,
there
is
information
as
to
why
that
person
has
separated
from
the
company
that
process
can
take
a
day
or
two
days.
But
when
that
information
is
provided
to
us,
then
there
is
a
form
that
we
have
to
fill
out
for
the
state.
That
requires
us
to
provide
detailed
information.
If
it
is
a
last
employer,
not
a
baseball
reporter
employer,
then
we
have
to
provide
detailed
information
that
detailed
information
can
take
up
to
an
hour,
sometimes
two
hours
to
gain
all
the
information
that
we
need.
I
In
order
for
the
examiner
to
properly
adjudicate
the
claim
after
we
provide
that
information
back
to
the
employer,
then
they
in
turn
will
adjudicate
the
claim
and
provide
a
determination
as
to
whether
or
not
that
claim
is
going
to
be
eligible
for
benefits
now
under
normal
circumstances,
it
might
take
three
to
four
or
five
days,
depending
on
the
amount
of
information
that
is
needed
in
order
to
adjudicate
the
claim.
However,
during
the
process
or
doing
the
pandemic,
we
simply
didn't
have
time
to
do
them.
I
That
hearing
process
is
another
long
encounter
where
we
have
to
meet
with
the
claimant,
meet
with
a
hearing
officer
and
one
of
us
will
represent
our
employer.
We
have
to
provide
witnesses
for
the
employer,
and
that
is
a
two
three
four
week
process.
So
it
is
another
area.
Where
is
a
lot
of
lag
is
going
on
and
we
have
to
try
to
provide
as
much
information
as
we
possibly
can
to
answer
your
question
directly
under
normal
circumstances.
I
It
might
take
six
or
seven
days
in
order
to
properly
provide
separation,
information
back
to
the
state
agency,
but
as
a
result
of
the
postal
system
being
the
way
it
is
that
information
is
taking
more
than
10
days
or
two
weeks
and
we're
having
to
deal
with
the
ramifications
of
providing
late
separation
information.
I
Now
the
state
of
kentucky
has
been
helpful
and
that
they
have
given
us
a
little
extra
time,
but
in
many
cases
they
have
gone
ahead
and
paid
the
individual
and
who
should
not
have
been
paid,
and
then
that
creates
another
whole
set
of
problems.
B
Thank
you,
mr
chair,
thank
you,
mr
mcfarland,
for
providing
your
perspective
on
this.
B
H
And
I
think
that's
a
great
question
and
we
get.
I
can
speak
for
the
chamber
of
commerce
as
a
as
an
organization.
We
get
constant
education
and
updates
from
our
I.t
director
and
are
very
careful
about
those
phishing
scams,
but
they
get
through
and
we
we
hear
about
it
in
some
of
these
even
high
profile
cases
where
there
are
attacks
on
business,
and
so
I
think
that
is
a
bigger,
broader
conversation.
Perhaps
chairman
pratt
and
your
committee,
that's
something
we
can
talk
about
as
well,
but
I
mean
it's
definitely
a
concern.
H
I
would
say,
though,
in
the
cases
that
we've
had
at
the
chamber,
where
we
suddenly
get
these
letters
if
the
benefits
have
been
paid
out,
I
mean
I,
I
can't
trace
that
to
a
phishing
scam.
Specifically,
I
mean
I,
I
think
that
these
these
these
fraudsters
are
probably
pretty
sophisticated
in
how
they're
going
about
getting
it.
I've
had
ceos
of
major
corporations.
H
Get
these
and
clearly
you
can
see
the
ceo
is
still
employed.
There
I
mean
it's,
you
know
it's,
it's
not
necessarily
a
you
know,
entry
level,
employee
that
you
know
isn't
on
the
internet
or
isn't
on
the
website.
Sometimes
it's
these
high
profile
positions.
So
it's
I
don't
know
enough
about
how
they're
getting
in
to
figure
out
how
to
solve
it
from
a
cyber
attack,
but
at
the
chamber
we
do
have
policy.
A
C
Alvarado,
thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
thank
you
all
for
your
presentations.
Are
you
aware
of
any
maybe
this?
This
goes
for
mr
mcfarland
as
well,
and
any
data
breaches
that
you've
all
had
within
your
organization
that
may
have
caused
this.
Or
are
you
guys
aware
of
any
that
you've
had
with
any
of
your
members
of
the
chamber
that
have
had
throughout
the
state.
H
I
We
have
not,
I
know
the
state
agencies,
the
unemployment
agencies
have
gone
through
the
process
in
the
last
year
for
examples
in
the
state
of
georgia,
in
the
state
of
kentucky
in
the
state
of
colorado
and
I'm
sorry
missouri
in
which
we
we
have
businesses.
I
They
have
gone
to
gone
through
the
process
of
providing
or
cutting
down
as
much
information
as
they
can.
For
example,
they
used
to
provide
an
entire
social
security
number.
Now
they
provide
only
the
last
four
digits
and
that
has
to
help
with
some
of
it.
However,
it
has
not
solved
all
of
the
problem,
so
no,
but
I
am
not
aware
of
any
data
breaches
that
any
of
the
companies
have
had.
C
Also,
I
guess
a
follow-up
to
that.
You
mentioned
about
having
four
to
five
hundred
claims
you
would
having
to
deal
with
on
a
daily
basis.
C
Roughly
how
many
you
know
extra
people
would
you
have?
Could
you
have
used
on
a
given
day
to
help
process
those
claims,
if
you
would
I
mean,
would
it
have
been?
If
you
had,
I
mean
you're,
probably
going
to
say
any
amount
of
people,
but
let's
say
if
you
would
have
had
20
50
100
people.
Could
you
have
kept
up
with
that
kind
of
volume.
I
To
address
the
the
number
of
claims
that
we
were
getting
on
a
daily
basis
in
order
to
properly
process
those
claims
on
a
timely
basis,
we
needed
at
least
I
would
say,
40
people.
Thank
you.
C
C
And
and
the
reason
I
asked
by
the
data
breaches,
I
know
we
had
two
within
state
government
during
this
process,
one
that
was
unreported
for
five
weeks.
You
know
I
I'm
self-employed
so
and
I'm
very
careful
about
my
data.
Nothing
has
gone
out.
I've
had
no
data
breaches
at
home,
yet
I
got
a
fraudulent
later
letter.
Mr
chairman,
someone
had
applied
under
my
name.
C
It's
just
a
matter
of
following
those
laws,
I
think,
is
important
and
also
I
know,
we've
had
an
opportunity
and
I'll
be
curious
here
from
the
cabinet
here
in
a
few
moments
in
terms
of
having
the
kind
of
personnel
and
assistance
with
that
to
be
able
to
process
those
claims.
I
appreciate
that
in
private
business,
but
thank
you
all
for
that.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
F
Actually,
representative
senator
abrala
still
saw
my
thunder
there.
I
don't
think
it's
on
the
business
community
side.
I
think
it's
at
the
state
state
level,
because
again
we
had
those
security
breaches.
I
hope
mr
roberts
addressed
that
when
he
speaks
to
us,
because
I
don't
think
we've
got
employees
that
got
fraudulent
letters
and
got
claims
filed
against
them
and
I
guarantee
you
we
did
not
get
hacked.
So
I
think
it's
on
the
state
level
hopefully
he'll
address
that
when
he
tells
us
about
this.
F
A
Any
other
questions
for
members
of
the
committee
all
right
at
this
time
I
would
like,
for
I
saw
secretary
roberts
earlier.
Oh
we've
got
this
large
pole
here,
stopping
me
from
seeing
you
secretary
roberts.
If
you
want
to
come
forward
director,
hoskinson
and
director
eaves
legislative
director,
if
you
all
will
come
forward.
A
Mr
secretary,
I
think
you're.
This
may
be
your
last
appearance
before
yes,
chairman
weber,
I
think
this.
J
A
Very
good,
so
I
think
we
we
may
have
some
questions
here.
I
have
several
myself,
so
let
me
begin
I'll,
just
as
I
wrote
them
down
I'll
share
some
and
then
we
can
talk
about
those
and
if
other
members
have
please
flag
sasha
that
you'd
like
to
speak.
So
the
first
question
I
have
is
when
a
fraudulent
claim
is
paid
out,
benefits
have
been
played
paid
out.
Is
the
employer
account
charged
for
that?
What's
the
process
for
clearing
that
up.
J
J
house
bill
413,
chairman
weber,
that
you
sponsored
also
provided
that
protection
that
that
there's
nothing
being
charged
to
employers,
whether
it's
a
fraudulent
account
or
whether
it's
a
legitimate
that
comes
out
of
the
pooled
account.
So
an
employer
is
not
going
to
have
a
negative
impact
by
virtue
of
either
one
of
those
circumstances.
A
Very
good,
thank
you
for
that
clarification.
I
just
wanted
to
get
that
out
there
in
the
discussion,
so
so
one
of
the
the
issues
that
surfaced
with
mr
mcfarland
was
speaking,
and
I
think,
if
we
did
a
poll
of
this
room,
we'd
all
agree
that
we've
we've
experienced
problems
with
the
u.s
mail.
A
Can.
Can
you
give
me
a
pro
the
breakdown
of
the
process
that
you
have
when
these
letters
go
out
to
businesses
or
to
employ
employees
or
folks
that
have
claims
that
have
been
filed?
What's
your
mail
process
and
are
you
working
on
any
remedy
to
help
with
the
the
time
frame?
Is
there?
How
do
we
solve
the
task.
J
If
I
can,
let
me
defer,
my
expert
for
ui
is
actually
to
my
left
and
let
me
refer
to
executive
director
hoskinson's
to
kind
of
address
that.
K
K
Remember
that
ru,
our
unemployment
insurance
process
is
meant
to
make
sure
that
it's
equitable
all
the
way
through
the
process.
So
from
the
time
an
individual
files,
a
claim
to
the
time
we
determine
the
separation
and
make
sure
that
it
is
an
correct
information
and
or
to
give
us
a
determination
and
then
to
decide
whether
or
not
somebody
is
going
to
appeal
that
determination.
It's
on
both
sides
of
the
house.
K
We
review
those.
I
read
cases
every
weekend,
so
do
these
members
and
then,
if
again
somebody
wants
to
appeal
that
decision.
They
have
a
right
to
go
into
the
court
system
to
do
so,
I
will
tell
you,
as
a
commission
during
this
time
in
the
pandemic,
we've
been
very
conscious
of
trying
to
be
aware
of
the
mail
system
and
the
time
going
through
and
not
having
that
as
something
that
holds
somebody
all
the
way
through
to
their
claim.
K
F
J
Well,
the
data
breach
that
happened
in
2020,
we
believe,
was
very
limited,
a
standpoint
of
where
an
individual
saw
a
very
limited
amount
of
information,
and
even
when
we
had
the
attack
and
I'll
also
ask
buddy
to
address
this
back
in
in
march
and
april.
When
we
saw
this
this
massive
attack
on
on
claims,
we
cannot
determine
or
appear
that
there
was
any
kind
of
data
breach
from
data
from
within
most
of
what's
what's
available
out
there
on
the
dark
web.
J
Is
there
maybe
a
data
breach
with
a
credit
card
company
or
some
other
company
where
there's
data,
but
we
cannot.
We
could
not
determine
that
there
was
any
kind
of
data
breach
from
within
ui
of
any
any
magnitude
there
may
have
been
like.
I
said
there
was
individual
circumstances
where
information
on
an
individual
was
available
where
another
individual
saw
that
that
data,
but
we
cannot
determine
there's
been
any
kind
of
massive
data
breach.
K
So
I
can
go
into
a
little
bit
if
you
would
like
to
what
happened
earlier
in
this
spring,
so
the
secretary
is
very
much
right
and
so
is
kate
when
she
talks
about
organized
activity.
That
is
very
real.
I
testified
back
in
late
february,
early
march
and
kate
gave
the
number
earlier
63
billion.
We
look
in
this
country
to
see
105
billion
dollars
being
fraud
during
this
pandemic
time
frame.
K
That's
what
we
ultimately
look
to
see
happen
across
this
country,
that's
the
number,
and
so
when
we
started
watching
and
started
seeing
as
far
as
in
terms
of
what
happened
in
the
late
winter,
we
started
seeing
chat
about
attacks.
That's
when
we
took
the
system
down
in
february
and
then
put
up
the
chat,
bot,
the
recaptcha
I
was
trying
to
think
of
the
term.
I
apologize
the
recapture
in
order
to
do
the
first
level
of
that.
K
We
then
determined
again
that
we
needed
to
do
some
more
work
and
then,
if
you
remember,
we
did
take
the
system
down
for
about
four
or
five
days
that
time
frame
was
to
go
in
and
really
put
down.
The
system
put
in
a
new
front
door,
interface
change
the
pin
code
system
because
we
had
a
four
digit
pin
and,
to
be
quite
honest
with
you,
people
had
gotten
very
laxed
with
using
something
that
was
very
similar
and
that
would
be
taking
their
last
four
digits
of
their
social
security
number
and
using
their
four-digit
pen.
K
When
we
stood
that
back
up,
we
put
in
some
more
complex
pin
registration
process.
There
are
now
tokens
just
like
if
you
were
to
go
out
to
your
bank
and
get
information
you're
going
to
get
an
email
back
to
get
verification
before
you
can
go
back
in
the
system
and
we
made
every
person
go
back
in
and
register.
K
We
sent
that
out
to
everybody
that
would
have
had
a
claim
in
the
past
20
years
to
go
back
in
and
re-register
their
accounts,
because
we
know
that,
as
the
secretary
was
saying,
information
has
been
being
lifted
off
of
the
dark
web.
We
also
know
very
easily
that
I
think
was
mentioned
here
by
one
of
the
one
of
you
all
on
the
task
force
about
individuals,
copying
emails
or
copying
websites.
It
has
not
been
uncommon
across
this
country
for
ui
websites
to
be
copied
and
one
thing
be
changed.
One
area
be
changed.
K
It
is
not
enough
for
you
to
notice
that
it's
not
the
real
thing
same
thing
with
emails
that
they're
able
to
go
in
and
do
that.
So
we
are
working
diligently
in
keeping
with
rit
staff
to
try
to
see
what
we
see
coming
through
the
fraudulent
activity,
and
we
will
say
that
the
pandemic
unemployment
insurance,
the
pua,
is
where
we
saw
most
of
the
fraud
coming
through
one
more.
F
I've
got
quite
this
type
of
personal
experience.
On
421
of
last
year
we
had
employee
lily,
walk
off
the
job
site,
never
called
us,
never
came
back
reason.
He
didn't
come
back
long
story,
but
he
may
have
wind
up
incarcerated,
but
on
6
22
we
were
notified.
I
have
it
in
front
of
me
that
he
was
john
unemployed
that
he'd
filed
for
unemployment.
F
F
How
can
that
happen,
and
do
we
know
whether
or
not
we
finally
wind
up?
Did
we
get
credited
for
that?
Again?
We
never
got
any
follow-up
on
that,
and
I
know
that
when
we
got
it
again,
I
know
she
followed
her
twice.
She
absol.
Let
me
tell
you
she
was
absolutely
jumping
up
down
in
her
seat.
How
can
this
person
do?
This
walked
off
the
job
site,
didn't
even
bother
calling
us
or
show
back
after
work,
but
he
drew
unemployment
benefits.
How
do
we
know
what
happened
with
that.
K
Well,
sir,
what
I
will
tell
you
is,
I
would
need
to
look
at
that
individual
case
to
know
exactly
the
particulars
of
that.
I
can't
speak
to
the
generalities
of
that
term
and
again
remember
we
were
in
the
part
of
the
pandemic
and
there
was
different
criteria
for
how
one
could
be
separated
from
a
job
and
just
like
senator
alvarado
mentioned
how
many
people
did
would
george
need
to
be
able
to
fulfill
those
400
insurance
claims.
We
too
are
in
the
same
situation.
K
J
We'll
do
thank
you,
representative
pratt.
I
think
it's
very
possible
just
because
of
the
staff,
the
overwhelming
numbers,
the
things
like
that
could
easily
could
have
slipped
through.
There's
no
doubt
about
that,
and
those
are
the
kind
of
things
where
we
continue
trying
to
hire
more
staff
and
trying
to
address
so
that
we
are
responding
quicker
to
employers
when
they
have
appealed,
and
obviously,
at
some
point
I
don't
know
where
that's
got
lost
in
the
shuffle
when
you
write
provide
that
to
buddy
and
he'll.
Follow
up
on
that.
C
C
Can
you
answer
me?
Why,
then,
when
our
house
and
senate
leadership
approached
the
administration
offered
all
of
our
secretarial
staff
for
lrc,
roughly
80,
to
100
employees,
to
assist
with
this
process,
we
were
told
we
don't
need
them.
We
don't
want
the
help.
Thank
you,
but
we
don't
need
them.
Is
there
a
reason
why
you
didn't
welcome
the
help
of
the
legislature
during
that
time,
because
80-100
employees?
Admittedly
we
have
staff
that
get
these
calls
every
day
we
get
emails
every
day
ms
eves
gets
communications
from
us
every
day.
C
Saying
please
help
all
of
our
constituents.
Our
staff
are
becoming
experts
in
unemployment,
insurance
and
our
secretaries,
who
are
handling
this
issue
every
day.
We
offer
them
to
the
to
the
cabinet,
to
the
administration,
saying
we'll
be
happy
to
provide
you.
The
assistance
to
get
you
more
state
employees
who
are
already
vetted
ahead
of
time
are
prepared
to
help
you
do
that
we
were
rejected.
Is
there
a
reason
why
we
were
rejected
to
provide
that
help
for
people
for
your
for
your
cabinet.
K
Sir,
I
I
don't
have
that
knowledge.
As
far
as
that
goes,
I
know
what
I
do
every
day
with
my
staff
to
be
quite
honest
with
you
and
as
we
hire
more
people
on
it.
While
your
staff
has
become
very
much
an
expert-
and
I
agree,
I
believe
they
have
because
they
see
the
same
things
and
we
know
because
we
both
work
to
get
that
information.
K
B
C
Okay,
mr
chairman,
I
mean
I
think
that
could
have
been
done
and
when
this
thing
started,
which
was
way
well
you're
15
months
ago,
16
months
ago,
when
this
all
kind
of
hit
the
fan
there's
an
opportunity
to
take
him
30
60
days,
whatever
90
days,
you
would
have
had
those
employees
working
for
a
full
year,
helping
you
out
with
this,
because
they're
still
handling
a
lot
of
these
very
issues,
and
I
find
that
frustrating.
If
you
don't
have
an
answer,
I'd
suggest
you
call
your
boss
and
ask
him.
C
Why
was
that
help
not
taken
from
the
legislature
willing
to
put
everything
aside?
We
want
to
help
people
out
get
these
payments
to
help
adjudicate
these
things
quicker
to
be
able
to
detect
fraud
quicker,
it
would
have.
I
think
it
would
have
helped
tremendously,
but
it's
frustrating
for
me
when
that
was
offered.
It
was
rejected.
Summarily
the
second
question
I've
got,
mr
chairman,
if
you'll
indulge
me,
I
know
you're
talking
about
how
a
lot
of
our
employers
are
not
being
having
required
opinion.
C
I
got
a
call
from
a
constituent
yesterday
on
the
phone
saying
I
need
to
talk
to
an
employer
who
had
an
employee
who
had
a
fraudulent
claim
under
his
name
got
a
hold
of
someone
here
in
state
government
up
in
the
cabinet.
They
agreed
it's
probably
a
fraudulent
game,
we're
going
ahead
and
processing
and
getting
it
taken
care
of
the
employer
got
a
letter.
I
think
it
was
this
week
because
he
called
me
up
and
said
I'm
concerned
about
this.
He
was
told
basically
look
there.
C
There's
fraud
on
this
you'll
need
to
pay
this
back
to
the
state.
So
what
you're
gonna
have
to
do
to
cover
this
fraud
that
was
issued
because
you
got
paid
fraudulently?
You
need
to
pay
us
back.
For
that
he's
saying
I
didn't
submit
the
claim
it
was
someone
else
who
did
it
fraudulently
yeah.
We
know
that
so
you're
saying
the
employer
has
to
submit
payment
for
the
fraud
that
someone
else
committed.
Yes,
we'll
see
what
he
was
told
and
that's-
and
I
can
give
you
the
name
of
the
individual-
be
happy
to
provide
it.
C
Yeah,
but
we're
getting
those
calls
even
this
week.
I
got
a
call
yesterday
about
it
and
he
said
that
was
confirmed.
Yeah
you
need
to
pay
it
back.
Am
I
going
to
get
this
money
back
when
you
find
out
who
did
it
fraudulently?
Probably
not
it's
going
to
go
into
some
kind
of
a
separate
fund.
So
that's
what
we're
getting
these
calls
currently
right
now
and
I
got
it
from
somebody
yesterday
I'll
be
happy
to
give
you
the
information.
That'd
be
great.
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
D
Secretary
roberts
understand
that
there
was
a
outside
contract
that
was
awarded
during
the
unemployment
process.
The
process
unemployment
claims.
Yes,.
J
D
Okay,
how
did
that
process
come
about
to
determine
who
was
awarded
that
contract.
J
Nursing
young
is
the
only
only
company
that
we
we've
utilized
with
a
contract
to
assist
us
with
ui.
They
were
already
a
contractor
that
is
doing
work,
and
I
mean
organization
has
done
work
and
approved
by
commonwealth
of
kentucky
and
and
so
and
they
had
experience
assisting
with
other
states
and
and
we
contracted
with
them.
J
J
J
A
G
Secretary
roberts,
first
of
all,
we
hate
to
see
you
go,
and
I
hope
that
the
future
holds
well
for
you.
Thank.
G
With
the
when
I
was
at
the
labor
cabinet,
the
workers
comp
was
all
done
by
mail,
so
we
put
in
place
a
computer
system
that
was
up
to
is
now
up
to
date,
where
the
judges
and
the
attorneys
can
do
things
online.
We
went
over
to
the
education
workforce
cabinet
where
unemployment
insurance
was
at
that
time.
We
were
implementing
another
system
like
that,
so
that
people
wouldn't
have
to
do
everything
by
mail
or
go
into
the
only
option
was
going
to
unemployment
offices.
J
With
a
process
for
that,
there
was
an
rfp
that
was
actually
being
worked
on
during
the
tail
land
at
the
end
of
the
bevin
administration,
and
that
was
posted
and
put
it
out.
I
guess
about
february
or
march
or
2020,
and
if
you're
recalling
go
back,
I
think
it
was
either
in
2017
or
2018,
where
the
general
assembly
actually
applied
a
surcharge.
Whenever
the
trust
fund
got
to
a
certain
level,
there
was
money
to
go
into
the
scuff
fund.
J
The
scuff
phone
was
used
would
be
used
to
fund
for
that
rfp
for
the
replacement
of
that
system.
I
think
it
was
estimated
at
the
time
of
that
legislation.
It
would
cost
somewhere
around
60
million
dollars
to
replace
the
system.
We
have
a
little
bit
in
excess
of
30
million
dollars.
That's
in
that
fund.
J
The
general
assembly
also
appropriated
this
past
session
about
10
million
dollars,
so
we
have
about
a
little
over
40
million
dollars
available
that
rfp
we've
been
in
the
process
of
working
with
vendors
and
to
go,
and
I'm
at
a
point
where
the
process
with
an
rfp
is,
is
confidential,
but
we're
in
the
process
of
that
rfp.
In
the
latter
stages
of
that
rfp
of
trying
to
select
a
vendor
for
that,
so
that's
where
we
stand
on
reworking
and
rebuilding
the
ui
system.
G
J
We're
not
we're
not
using
erston
young
since
they
completed
that
contract
and
turned
over
information
in
january.
So
we
have
not
used
arson
young
since
that
time.
J
That's
that
one
of
the
things
as
you
do
additional
work.
The
way
the
federal
government
operates
from
the
stand
of
funding
is
additional
funds
become
available
almost
on
a
quarterly
basis,
as
they
looked
at
what
your
workload
is
and
standpoint
as
we
increase
work
and
and
performance,
then
additional
dollars
have
become
available
and,
as
those
dollars
have
become
available,
we've
been
looking
to
try
to
hire
our
own
employees,
and
so
we've
been
trying
to
gear
up,
and
you
can
only
do
what
the
federal
government
provides
for
you
that
additional
additional
funds.
G
We
passed
the
bill
recently
so
that
you
can
put
more
people
on
that.
That
would
be
approved.
K
We
we
are
having
trouble
like
other
businesses
to
get
get
folks
in
yes,
and
also.
You
will
note
that,
at
the
same
time
that
senator
alvarado
was
talking
about
staffing
going
up,
we
were
also
waiting
on
that
federal
guidance
to
give
us
flexibility
and
staffing
as
well,
and
we've
got
that
flexibility
in
staffing.
That
only
goes
through
september
of
labor.
This
labor
day
weekend.
A
I
have
well
I'll
add
to
that.
Do
we
have
any
folks
that
have
not
asked
a
question
so
we're
gonna?
We've
got
a
couple
of
follow-ups.
We're
going
to
go
representative
sharp.
Has
a
follow-up
question.
D
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
it's
been
reported
that
the
previous
bashir
administration
was
offered
federal
money
to
update
the
unemployment
insurance
computer
systems,
and
that
was
turned
down.
Do
we
know
why
that
was.
J
I
believe
the
standpoint
as
we
go
back
to
the
task
force
and
the
activity
when
we
we
dealt
with
this
issue
with
unemployment
insurance,
and
I
served
on
that
task
force
as
a
labor
representative
at
that
time
and
as
we
were
looking
to
making
changes
and
if
you
recall
there
was
modifications,
reducing
benefits,
some
benefits
and
increasing
taxes
on
employers
and
the
group
and
the
task
force
that
made
those
recommendations
felt
like
that
there
was
equal
give
on
both
sides
where
employers
are
going
to
be
paying
a
little
more.
J
J
D
J
At
this
point
to
say
who
was
part
of
that
discussion?
I
remember
on
the
task
force.
We
had
several
legislators
on
the
task
force.
There
was
at
least
two
members
from
the
house
and
two
members
from
the
senate.
There
may
have
been
even
been
three.
We
had
the
house
protest.
J
The
speaker
pro
tem
was
on
that
committee.
Senator
gibbons
served
on
that
committee,
so
obviously
that
task
force
was
not
just
individuals
from
the
private
sector,
from
business
community
and
from
the
labor
community.
We
had
legislators
on
there.
That
was
very
much
part
of
that
decision.
Making
process.
Now
I
can't
say,
was
that
conversation
with
the
senate
president?
I
really
don't
know.
D
C
Senator
alvarado,
thank
you
chairman
just
I
guess
from
this
point
going
forward.
These
task
forces
are
always
assigned
to
find
solutions
for
this.
So
I
guess
I'm
going
to
ask
you
as
members
of
the
leaders
of
the
cabinet,
really
your
wish
list
of
what
you
would
like
to
see
happen
coming
up
to
make
this
either
not
happen
again
in
the
future.
To
make
things
easier,
we
obviously
increased
staffing
is
one
issue.
C
J
Well,
obviously,
if
we
can
modernize
our
system,
that's
going
to
make
a
big
difference
and
we're
continuing
every
day
to
kind
of
look
to
see
are
there's
things
that
we
can
do
even
before
this
rfp
is
awarded,
because
it
may
take
two
to
three
years
to
to
make
that
be
a
an
outcome
looking
to
to
having
cross-training,
where
we
have
staff-
that's,
maybe
even
more
cross-trained
that
can
fill
in
and
do
other
things
where
maybe
in
the
past,
they
haven't
quite
done
that
there
needs
to
be
a.
J
All
staff
are
what
they're
considered
to
be
federally
funded
time
limited
it's
very
difficult
to
get
people
that
to
stay
there
very
long
and
if
you're
an
18,
a
employee
right
now,
you'll
pass
up
a
promotion,
because
you
have
to
leave
your
18
a
position
in
order
to
consider
a
promotion.
So
there's
there
are.
J
And
I
think
that
that's
something
the
general
assembly
ought
to
consider,
because
I
know
it's
very
difficult
when
you're
looking
at
trying
to
promote
someone
and
if
I'm
a
career
employee
and
I'm
an
18a
employee,
why?
Why
would
I
take
the
risk
of
stepping
over
for
a
small
promotion?
If
I've
got
to
leave
that?
And
so
that's
another
area.
F
J
We
still
have
a
backlog
of
claims
from
2020
and
the
standpoint
of
trying
to
adjudicate
a
lot
of
the
issues.
Just
like
what
you're
talking
about
addressing
issues
where
someone
or
maybe
even
you
know,
an
employer
has
protested
as
a
standpoint.
There's
still
a
backlog,
and
even
though
that
unemployment
rate
is
down,
it's
improving,
there's
still
a
backlog
that
needs
to
be
worked,
and
until
we
get
all
those
those
cases
work,
there's
going
to
still
be
that
need
to
provide
that
particular
service.
J
Well,
careers,
career
centers
have
always
been
open
and
we
provide
services
broader
than
just
unemployment.
The
majority
of
the
services
you
think
about
on
a
normal
situation
where
someone
comes
in
is
unemployed
is
not
only.
We
look
at
trying
to
help
you
with
your
benefits,
but
we're
also
trying
to
find
out.
How
can
we
help
you
find
a
job?
What
can
we
do
to
improve
whether
it's
an
education
issue
or
whether
or
not
you
need
to
help
you
with
your
resume
writing
interview
skills?
So
a
lot
of
the
a
lot
of
the
services
provided?
J
You
will
be
continuing
those
on
and
on
now,
what
will
happen
as
our
backlog
dissipates
and
is
resolved
then
that
staff,
as
those
funds,
disappear
those
federally
funded
times.
Positions
will
disappear
too,
but
you
still
want
to
have
staff
within
those
career
centers
that
can
assist
with
ui
that
did
not
exist
prior
to
to
us
reopening
the
career
centers.
There
was
no
one
in
the
local
center
that
had
that
ability
to
do
that,
and
that
will
continue
on
a
limited
basis.
J
Chairman
webber
there's
one
thing
I
wanted
to
share
just
so
just
a
point.
I
didn't
get
a
chance
and
y'all.
I
know
you'll
address
this
one
down
the
road
too,
but
your
trust
fund.
Currently
we
have
a
505
million
dollar
deficit,
575
million
that
has
been
appropriate
by
the
general
assembly
of
the
federal
funds.
Those
funds
will
become
available
in
the
new
fiscal
year
and
that
505
million
debt
will
be
paid
off
sometime
within
the
next
couple
of
weeks.
J
We
currently
have
a
positive
balance
in
the
trust
fund
of
345
million
dollars.
That's
due
to
employers
paying
in
their
first
quarter
their
taxes
and
also
some
of
the
dollars,
the
karex
dollars
a
general
that
governor
beshear
has
appropriated
to
the
trust
fund.
But
the
trust
fund
is
pretty
solid
shape
right
now,
especially
when
we
pay
off
the
505
million
dollar
debt.
A
Okay,
thank
you
for
that
information.
I
appreciate
you
coming
here
today
and
and
the
presentation
that
you
have
responding
to
the
questions
and
then
the
presentation
that
we
had
from
mr
mcfarland
and
and
kate
from
the
chamber.
A
One
of
the
things
that
that
I
would
like
to
have
as
chairman
of
this
task
force
or
co-chairman
of
this
task
force,
make
a
request
to
your
cabinet.
Is
this.
A
few
days
ago
I
had
a
chance
to
meet
with
legislative
director
eves.
We
had
a
good
discussion.
One
of
things
we
talked
about
was
updating
the
technology,
the
scuff
fund,
the
appropriations
from
the
general
assembly
and
the
need
to
have
a
very
archaic
system
updated.
A
A
So,
as
I
was
listening
to
the
discussion
earlier,
especially
from
mr
mcfarland,
one
of
the
things
that
that
I
thought
about
and
and
I'm
going
to
make
this
request
to
you-
I
know
secretary
roberts-
you
will
be
leaving
in
the
next
couple
of
weeks.
Secretary
link
will
be
coming
in,
I'm
assuming
you
folks
will
be
staying
on.
A
I
would
like
to
to
request
that
you
work
with
the
kentucky
chamber.
We
have
another
entity
here
today.
The
national
federation
of
independent
businesses
work
with
those
folks,
while
we're
in
the
process
of
developing
this
new
system
to
to
get
their
input
and
their
feedback
on
things
that
can
be
added
to
the
system
to
help
with
improvements,
help
make
information
available
to
business
entities
so
that
they
may
not
actually
have
to
speak
to
a
live
person.
They
can
actually
get
that
information
online.
A
I
will
follow
this
because
I
think
it's
important.
I
think
one
of
the
reasons
that
we
are
here
today
with
this
task
force
is,
I
don't
want
to
see
us
repeat
the
last
year
again
with
a
system
that
was
overwhelmed
and
and
folks,
I'm
still
you
know.
A
I
yesterday
I
had
a
request
from
a
constituent
who's
still
waiting
for
money
from
october
of
last
year
and
we're
we've
submitted
that
information
to
you,
but
I
would
like
for
you
to
work
with
them
to
get
input
on
how
to
make
that
system
better
and
how
to
make
that
system
more
efficient
and
more
workable,
so
that
we
get
it
right.
The
first
time
as
we
move
forward.
J
Obviously,
I
can't
really
speak
for
secretary
link,
but
I
do
believe
that
he
will
be
very
agreeable
to
do
that.
I
will
pass
that
along.
A
I
want
to
thank
you
all
for
appearing
before
the
task
force
and
answering
questions
and
presenting
today.
So
thank
you
very
much.
A
A
M
Hi,
my
name
is
amy
stade.
I
am
the
executive
director
of
the
kentucky
association
of
private
providers.
Thank
you
so
much
for
allowing
me
to
be
here.
M
I
will
admit
that
I
am
not
in
unemployment
insurance
expert,
but
these
issues
affect
my
members
tremendously,
and
I
thank
you
for
the
opportunity
to
be
here
to
talk
about
it.
Cap
is
a
trade
association
representing
over
100
providers
of
community-based
support
services
to
individuals
with
intellectual
and
developmental
disabilities.
M
Generally,
individuals
with
intellectual
and
developmental
disabilities
receive
these
services
through
the
supports
for
community
living
and
the
michelle
p
waiver
programs,
but
some
get
them
for
through
the
home
and
community
base
waivers
and
that's
just
a
little
background
knowledge
for
you,
these
individuals.
These
services
allow
individuals
with
significant
intellectual
and
developmental
disabilities
to
continue
to
live
in
the
community,
and
they
it
includes
24-hour
care.
M
So
we're
not
talking
about
institutional
settings
and
it's
a
cost
savings
for
the
commonwealth.
These
are
all
privately
owned
businesses.
These
are
not
state-run
businesses.
These
are
individual
business
owners
in
all
of
your
districts
generally,
when
we
think
of
unemployment
insurance
businesses
don't
get
much
sympathy.
M
We
all
hear
stories
of
companies
that
don't
contest
unemployment
claims,
because
it
costs
them
more
to
contest
the
claim
than
to
just
pay
it.
I'm
here
to
tell
you
about
small
business
owners
in
kentucky
who
cannot
increase
prices
to
keep
up
with
these
costs.
Cap
members
are
100
medicaid
reimbursed
by
the
by
the
kentucky
medicaid
program.
They
don't
bill
private
insurance.
M
Cap
members
cannot
increase
the
price
of
the
hamburger
to
offset
significant
increase
increases
in
their
cost
of
doing
business,
because
their
customer
is
the
kentucky
medicaid
program.
Additionally,
cap
members
are
unable
to
substantially
raise
wages
without
a
reimbursement
increase
from
the
medicaid
program.
The
margins
are
just
tight.
M
Just
for
some
background,
many
of
our
members
operate
what
are
called
adult
day
programs.
They
were
ordered
to
be
closed
in
march
of
2020
by
the
governor,
in
line
with
covet
orders.
They
were
not
allowed
to
reopen
until
june
2020
and
since
that
time
there
have
been
social
just
that
remain
in
place.
Today
there
are
social,
distancing
requirements
that
basically
amount
to
capacity
limits.
M
We
still
have
social
distancing
requirements
in
these
settings
and
so
they're
still
not
able
to
operate
at
full
capacity.
My
members
have
done
everything
they
should
have
done
to
stay
in
business.
They've,
gotten
ppp
loans,
they've
tried
not
to
lay
off
staff,
but
there
was
a
significant
period
of
time
where
they
were
ordered
to
be
closed,
had
to
lay
off
staff,
and
then
it
was
you
know
several
months.
M
Some
of
them
didn't
get
first
round
ppp
loans,
so
there
were
several
months
there
where
staff
were
laid
off
before
they
could
call
them
back
after
they
got
those
ppp
loans
and
again
that's
just
a
little
background
for
you
all
for
our
non-profit
members.
We've
got
several
non-profit
reimbursing
employers,
many
of
which
operate
those
adult
day,
programs
that
I
just
described.
M
These
non-profit
members
have
been
incredibly
grateful
that
for
the
federal
funds
that
have
been
directed
to
help
assist
these
reimbursing
employers,
without
this
assistance
they
would
have
gone
out
of
business.
They
would
have
gone
out
of
business,
so
we
are
incredibly
incredibly
thankful
for
that
assistance
for
our
contributing
employers.
We've
got
a
number
of
for-profit
contributing
employers.
We
would
just
ask
that
the
commonwealth
can.
Can
you
continue
to
control
unemployment
insurance
costs
just
in
any
way
possible?
We
appreciate
your
action
during
the
2021
session.
M
Workforce
you've
all
heard
a
lot
about
workforce
issues
and
our
waiver
providers
cap
members
are
suffering
right
now.
We've
reached
the
point
where
our
providers
cannot
recruit
enough
staff
to
cover
shifts,
leading
to
masses,
massive
increase
in
overtime
costs,
and
it's
important
to
remember
that
cap
members,
we
can't
reduce
operating
hours.
We
can't
close
down
for
the
day.
We
can't
just
limit
our
hours
nine
to
five.
This
is
24
hour
care,
so
we
don't
have
an
option.
M
M
Last
week
the
kentucky
chamber
presented
information
in
committee
indicating
that
the
additional
three
hundred
dollars
on
top
in
unemployment
insurance
on
top
of
what
the
worker
usually
receives,
amounts
to
about
15.75
an
hour.
The
reimbursement
rate
that
cap
members
receive
from
the
kentucky
medicaid
only
supports
ten
dollars
an
hour,
so
many
providers
have
to
offer
and
many
providers
have
to
actually
offer
lower
than
ten
dollars
an
hour
just
because
of
the
increased
unemployment
costs.
M
It's
impossible
for
waiver
providers
to
compete
with
the
additional
300
benefit,
we're
competing
with
the
government
and
the
government
sets
our
rates
so
we're
in
a
bit
of
a
pickle
right
now.
Additionally,
cap
members
have
reported
that
when
we
have
interviewed
job
applicants
and
offered
a
position,
these
members
were
told
that
the
individual
being
interviewed
would
call
them
back
when
their
unemployment
insurance
ran
out.
M
M
M
Just
a
story
to
sort
of
illustrate
what
I'm
talking
about
pre-pandemic,
so
not
during
the
pandemic,
a
residential
provider.
So
someone
who
provides
24-hour
care
received
a
credible
allegation
of
abuse,
meaning
that
a
staff
member
there
was
a
credible
allegation
that
a
staff
member
abused,
an
individual
with
a
disability
that
and
that
residential
provider
took
all
steps
necessary,
reported
it
to
all.
The
state
agencies
immediately
placed
this
person
on
leave
per
their
policy
did
all
of
the
right
things.
M
The
residential
provider
did
an
internal
investigation.
Adult
protective
services
also
did
an
investigation,
both
determined
that
the
abuse
occurred
and
the
caregiver
employee
admitted
that
he
or
she
abused
the
individual
with
the
disability
per
kentucky
regulation
when
there
is
a
substantiated
allegation
of
abuse
or
neglect
or
things
like
a
failed
drug
test.
There
are
several
reasons:
a
1915
z
waiver
provider
is
required
by
regulation
to
fire
that
employee.
M
That
provider
did
that.
That
employee
turned
around
applied
for
unemployment
and
received
it,
and
that's
not
a
one-off
that
happens
a
lot.
We've
got
a
lot
of
situations
where
waiver
providers
fire
an
employee
due
to
an
allegation
of
abuse
or
neglect,
doing
the
right
thing,
trying
to
protect
a
vulnerable
adult
and
then
are
penalized
in
the
form
of
increased
unemployment
costs,
because
that
employee
turns
around
and
is
granted
unemployment.
M
In
our
opinion,
shoring
up
this
standard
would
really
save
the
state
a
lot
of
money.
Other
issues
and
a
lot
of
these
have
already
been
addressed.
Employees
are
granted
unemployment
despite
being
employed
somewhere
else
full
time.
M
When
employers
have
tried
to
report
fraud,
they
don't
get
a
response
heard
stories
where
benefits
are
being
paid
and
the
employers
have
not
had
the
opportunity
to
appeal
just
a
number
of
stories
like
this,
like
you've
heard
from
everyone
else,
but
I
really
just
wanted
to
bring
to
your
attention-
and
this
is
unique
to
my
members
and
other
caregiving
industries
when
employers
are
firing
someone,
because
there
is
a
credible
allegation
of
abuse
and
neglect
or
because
they're
required
by
regulation
to
fire
them.
We
shouldn't
be
penalizing
them
and
that's
all
I've
got.
C
C
I
work
with
a
lot
of
individuals
in
a
very
similar
field
and
long-term
care
and
skilled
nursing
facilities,
and
I
know
the
difficulties
everybody's
experienced
during
this
time.
A
lot
of
loss
of
lives.
You
know-
and
we
know
that
it's
difficult
to
provide
care
to
our
medicaid
population
because
of
reimbursements
I
remind
people.
C
I
don't
think
a
lot
of
folks
who
are
in
healthcare
understand
how
tight
the
margins
are
in
this
state
for
lots
of
reasons.
As
a
provider,
we
were
very
tight
when
I
provided
you
know,
services
to
people
with
medicaid.
I
think
I
made
two
dollars
a
visit.
Four
visits,
an
hour
which
is
pretty
quick,
was
about
eight
bucks
an
hour,
and
I
actually
had
that
kind
of
a
profit.
Most
medical
practices
lose
money
and
I
think
it's
gotten
worse,
as
medicaid
reimbursements
have
dropped
over
time
and
costs
of
doing
business
have
gone
up.
C
C
We're
always
going
to
welcome
other
ideas
that
you
have
in
terms
of
what
we
could
do
better
in
the
future.
What
we
can
learn
from
our
mistakes
moving
forward
also,
are
there
other
factors
I
mean?
I
know.
C
Ama
has
come
out
with
a
position
saying
that
our
liability
costs
usually
is
described
as
a
liability
issue
for
a
lot
of
facilities,
and
sometimes
liability
will
come
from
that
as
well.
A
30
increase
in
liability
insurance
costs
for
medical
providers
in
this
state
this
upcoming
year,
which
is
the
highest
increase
by
far
of
anywhere
in
the
country,
and
I'm
wondering
if
you've
had
any
issues
in
terms
of
increased
costs
with
that
during
this
time,
as
far
as
coming
through
as
a
medical
provider,
you
know
again
with
all
the
risks
there.
M
Sure
so
our
ots
pt's
speech
therapist.
You
know
individuals
like
that
more
professional.
M
Yes,
obviously
there
is
a
liability
insurance
and
we're
kind
of
waiting
to
see
what
happens
with
that
as
as
for
our
residential
providers,
because
they're
community-based
settings
that
falls
under
a
business's
general
liability,
we
haven't
seen
any
increases
yet,
but
that
doesn't
mean
that
it's
not
going
to
happen.
We're
still
kind
of
waiting
to
hold
out,
but
with
those
residential
providers.
There's
not
a
professional
liability
insurance
associated,
it's
more
general
business,
but
again
we're
hoping
that
it
doesn't
happen,
but
it
may
and
again
any
increase.
M
M
I've
probably
got
there's
about
200
providers
statewide
about
half
of
those
are
members
of
our
association
in
our
association,
we've
probably
got
about
25
that
provide
those
day
services
only
that
I
kind
of
described
earlier
and
all
of
those
are
struggling.
Yeah.
A
Thank
you,
senator
alvarado,
any
other
questions
for
members
of
the
committee
amy.
Thank
you
for
sharing
that
I
I'm
glad
you
highlighted
the
concern
and
the
issue
regarding
abuse
and
neglect.
That
is
something
that
I
will
be
looking
at.
A
This
committee
itself
may
take
a
closer
look
at
as
we
proceed
during
the
discussions
on
reforming
unemployment,
insurance
reform,
but
I
appreciate
the
information
and
and
and
you
and
I
had
a
discussion
back
during
the
session
when
I
was
working
on
house
bill
413
and
one
of
the
things
that
came
out
of
that
discussion
that
that
I
think
is
important
for
the
members
of
this
committee
to
realize
is
that
if
we
have
your
facilities
closing
across
the
state,
these
folks
will
have
to
be
cared
for
in
some
capacity
or
another,
and
so
you
actually
provide
a
very
much
needed
service
that
will
be
sorely
missed
in
this
state,
and
so
I
think
it's
important
that
we
that
we
be
mindful
of
that.
A
A
All
right,
we
now
move
to
item
number
four
on
the
agenda.
If
tom
underwood
will
come
forward,
he
has
a
guest
in
person
and
then
one
remotely,
if
you
all,
will
introduce
yourself
for
the
record
and
then
after
you've
done
that
you
can
begin
with
your
presentation.
E
Thank
you
very
much,
mr
chairman,
and
members
of
the
task
force.
We
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
be
here
to
talk
about
what's
happening
to
small
business
out
there.
My
name
is
tom,
underwood,
I'm
the
state
director
for
the
national
federation
of
independent
business.
We
represent
around
four
thousand
small
businesses
across
the
state
and
are
the
largest
advocacy
assoc
organization
in
the
nation
dedicated
just
to
small
business.
Our
typical
members
have
fewer
than
50
employees,
many
of
them
only
three
to
five
employees,
a
big
portion,
so
they
are
the
true
mom
and
pop
main
street
businesses.
E
E
100
of
those
are
having
difficulty
finding
applicants.
86
percent
of
them
cannot
find
applicants
even
at
wages
that
are
equal
or
greater
to
the
benefits
that
are
being
received.
Now
it
was
gratifying
to
hear
from
the
cabinet
and
from
the
previous
testimony
about
the
processes
involved,
both
in
filing
claims
and
in
contesting
claims.
E
E
E
So
there
is
certainly
information
out
on
the
web,
that's
being
used
when
we
went
in
and
tried
to
file
online
about
that
fraud
to
have
it
looked
into.
None
of
the
questions
on
the
website
fit
the
situation
for
the
employer,
and
that
was
a
real
problem
at
that
time.
I
marked
up
the
piece
of
paper
in
red
and
mailed
it
to
a
unnamed
secretary
or
commissioner
and
asked
them
to
take
a
look
into
it
have
yet
to
hear
anything
back
on
that
as
well.
E
Unfortunately,
you
also
have
hundreds
of
other
constituents
that
don't
know
to
call
you,
and
that
is
a
real
problem
out
there.
I've
talked
recently
talked
to
an
employer
that
has
been
offering
25
dollars
to
anyone
that
will
come
in
and
fill
out
an
application
for
a
job
that
pays
17
an
hour.
He
has
had
zero
takers.
E
I
talked
to
a
convenience
store
owner.
Their
family
owns
two
convenience
stores.
They
are
so
short
on
employees
that
they
are
now
working
60
and
70
hours
a
week
themselves,
trying
to
keep
the
stores
open,
but
they
are
running
out
of
rope
at
this
time.
I
know
of
no
restaurants
that
are
fully
staffed
anywhere
in
the
commonwealth
of
kentucky.
E
Many
are
having
to
cut
their
hours,
even
keeping
their
capacities
at
the
pandemic
restriction
levels
just
because
they
simply
cannot
serve
the
customers
that
would
come
in
the
only
business
we've
been
able
to
identify
that
is
fully
staffed.
Is
the
telus
centers
that
are
calling
and
asking
you
to
talk
about
your
auto
warranty
system.
So
I
really
we're
late
in
the
day
and
I
don't
want
to
take
too
much
time.
E
I
would
like
to
ask
mr
eddycraft
to
tell
us
a
little
bit
about
his
business
and
about
his
experiences
and
then
we'll
go
to
mr
withrow
who's
on
zoom.
Thank
you.
N
Hey
good
afternoon,
thank
you
for
having
me
my
name
is
eddie
craft.
I.
N
Right
there
there
you
go
there,
you
go
eddie
craft,
I
am
from
louisville
kentucky
I
own
a
florist
with
my
brother.
We
were
founded
in
1850
and
I
am
sixth
generation,
and
this
year,
like
you
guys
know,
has
been
crazy
before
the
pandemic.
We
had
a
hundred
employees.
N
N
I
pay
a
competitive,
we
pay
a
competitive
wage,
we
have
benefits,
we
have
a
profit-sharing
plan,
but
it's
amazing
how
hard
it
is
to
find
people
to
hire
and
kind
of
along
those
lines
is,
is
you
know
over
the
last
three
months
I
counted
it
up.
I've
had
a
hundred
applications
and
we've
asked
all
hundred
of
them
to
come
in
for
an
interview
and
only
20
of
them.
You
know
two
and
ten
have
showed
up
even
for
an
interview
and
of
those
twenty
we've
hired
about
ten
ten
of
those.
N
So
you
know
just
in
a
nutshell.
It
confuses
me
and
a
lot
of
my
friends
who
are
looking
for
employees
on
why
we're
still
paying
these
benefits
federal
benefits
when,
as
everybody
knows
I
mean,
even
the
unemployment
office
is
looking
for
people,
why
we
keep
paying
these
benefits
when
there's
so
many
jobs
out
there.
E
L
Can
you
hear
me
now
you
may
proceed
all
right.
Thank
you
to
the
committee
for
having
me
today,
I'm
dan
wether
with
css
distribution
group.
I
started
my
company
16
years
ago.
We
are
a
national
distributor
of
pallets
and
packaging.
We
also
manufacture
pallets
in
a
50
000
square
foot
warehouse
off
bishop
lane,
so
I've
got
quite
a
story
about
hiring
we've.
When
we
started
the
warehouse
in
december
of
2019,
we
only
needed
a
few
employees,
but
over
the
pandemic,
we've
been
very,
very
fortunate.
L
We've
not
been
like
a
restaurant
that
had
to
shut
down.
L
We've
landed
a
couple
of
large
contracts
and
had
to
go
from
two
employees
to
ten
employees
in
a
warehouse
and
trying
to
find
employees
has
been
extremely
difficult.
We
have
gone
to
two
different
staffing
companies.
We've
posted
on.
Indeed,
we've
posted
with
a
company
called
joble.
If
you
don't
know,
javel
they're,
like
the
uber
of
warehouse
employees,
where
employees
can
sign
up
online,
they
literally
had
supposedly
hundreds
of
thousands
of
employees
signed
up
with
javel
and
of
the
ten
employees
that
said
that
they
would
come
to
work
for
us.
L
Not
one
of
them
showed
up
and
we've
posted
signs
out
in
front
of
our
building:
we've
gone
to
family
and
friends
and
and
and
posted
on
next
door.
We
post
it
on
facebook
and
we
only
have
two
full-time
employees
and
we
filled
the
rest
with
part-time
employees.
L
We
pay
14
to
17
an
hour
in
the
warehouse
and
we
I
finally
figured
out
a
way
to
at
least
staff
the
warehouse
with
college
kids
out
of
the
university
of
louisville.
L
L
So
I've
also
talked
to
literally
dozens
of
my
suppliers
to
find
out
what's
going
on
with
their
issue
and
and
I'm
part
of
a
letter
that
I
submitted
as
part
of
my
testimony
with
the
forest
products
industry
here
in
the
state
of
kentucky
and
48
other
companies
all
signed
on
to
that
letter,
they're
all
struggling
to
find
labor
and
most
of
the
labor
that
that
fill
the
jobs
in
the
forest
products.
Industry
are
the
types
of
labor
that
are
currently
getting
the
extra
unemployment.
L
This
is
labor.
That's
going
to
be
15
to
20
per
hour
labor,
so
someone
that
that
could
choose
to
stay
home
and
get
the
extra
300
per
week
federal
money
or
go
to
work.
I
don't
blame
the
laborers,
I
mean
they
can
get
stay
home
and
make
35
38
000
a
year
or
go
to
work.
They're
going
to
choose
to
stay
home.
We've
got
to
eliminate
that
extra
carrot
out
there
so
that
they
can
then
go
back
in
the
labor
force.
All
of
these
companies
have
signed
on
to
this
letter.
L
L
There's
a
limited
amount
of
supply
of
lumber,
which
makes
the
price
of
lumber
to
go
up
very
high,
so
without
a
doubt,
what's
happening
right
now
is
without
having
labor
out
there
to
fill
the
jobs.
It's
it's
greatly
impacting
our
industry.
It's
greatly
impacting
the
cost
of
the
products
that
are
out
there.
So
I'd
ask
the
task
force
to
please
take
a
look
at
that
and
see
what
we
can
do
to
stop
the
extra
carrot.
That's
out
there
right
now,
so
we
can
fill
the
jobs
that
are
that
are
out
there
all
day,
long.
E
Mr
chairman,
if
I
could
conclude
before
we
do
questions
the
asks
that
we
have
is
your
microphone.
Yes,.
E
I'm
just
not
very
loud
the
asks
that
we
have
are
as
follows.
First
off,
of
course,
the
pandemic
has
laid
bare
across
state
government
how
archaic
the
I.t
systems
are,
for
whatever
reason
they
we're
still
looking
for
people
that
can
program
fortran
and
I'm
probably
one
of
the
few
people
in
the
room.
That
knows
what
fortran
is
at
this
point,
we
would
like
to
see
some
arpa
funds
be
allocated
in
the
next
session
of
the
general
assembly,
specifically
for
bringing
those
systems
up
into
the
21st
century.
E
The
next
thing
we
would
like
to
see
some
sort
of
change
in
the
reporting
by
individuals
applying
for
work
where
the
employer
can
also
report
whether
that
individual
declined
to
show
up
for
an
interview.
We
believe
that
is,
data
that
needs
to
be
gathered
as
well
as
going
out
and
filling
out
applications.
E
We
believe
that,
as
time
has
been
said,
we
need
to
join
the
other
states
that
have
stopped
accepting
the
300
federal
incentive
program.
The
jobs
are
out
there.
Of
course,
there
are
people
that
need
help.
We
need
to
keep
the
programs
in
place
to
help
those,
but
we
have
got
to
get
people
back
into
the
workforce,
the
inflation
we're
seeing
and
the
supply
chain
difficulties.
A
Thank
you.
Thank
you
all
for
your
presentation
and
for
those
recommendations.
That
is
the
the
purpose
of
this
task
force,
to
gather
recommendations
from
folks
and-
and
we
appreciate
appreciate
you
mentioning
those
to
us
today.
First
question
we
do
have
for
you
is
represent
from
representative
pratt.
F
Actually,
I
am
I'm
also
a
member
nfib,
you
know.
As
you
talk
about
you
said,
90
percent
of
your
business
are
looking
for
employees.
I
would
say
it's
a
little
bit
higher
than
that
all
said
and
done
because
I
mean
literally
everyone
I
talked
to.
I
haven't
yet
just
found
anyone
saying
we're
fully
staffed
and
have
all
the
employees
we
need,
and
I
talk
to
businesses
every
day.
A
I
would
like
to
point
out-
and
I
think
you
probably
already
are
aware
of
this
but
representative
pratt
and
I
did
submit
a
letter
to
the
governor
as
chairs
of
the
economic
development,
workforce,
investment
and
small
business
and
information
technology
committees.
I
believe
I
got
that
correct,
asking
the
governor
to
suspend
kentucky's
participation
in
the
300
pandemic
assistance,
unemployment.
A
We
all
hear
from
business
owners
in
our
districts
and
across
the
state
that
they're
having
trouble
finding
employees
right
now
in
in
my
area.
A
busy
restaurant
that
on
any
given
day
of
the
week,
especially
a
monday,
will
be
packed
at
the
lunch
hour,
cannot
open
on
a
monday
because
they
don't
have
employees
to
work.
They
have
one
one
individual
that
will
work,
and
so
I
agree
with
you.
A
We
have
got
to
to
to
get
to
the
point
where
people
are
going
to
have
to
return
to
work
in
this
state,
and
I
will
share
with
you
my
disappointment
that
the
governor's
response
to
that
is
that
no,
he
will
not
seek
to
end
our
state's
participation
in
that
program.
Rather,
he
will
now
seek
to
incentivize
through
bonuses
and
other
means,
encouraging
people
to
go
back
to
work
in
this
state,
and
I
think
that
we've
got
to
move
beyond
that.
E
A
A
Thank
you
all
for
being
here,
mr
craft.
Thank
you
for
for
being
here.
I
didn't
realize
you've
been
in
business
since
1850,
but
I've
I've
seen
you
around
louisville
as
long
as
I
can
remember,
and
I've
been
here
over
30
years,
and
so
I
want
to
thank
you
all
for
being
here
for
members
of
the
committee.
The
next
task
force
meeting
will
be
july
26th
and
we
will
meet
at
10
a.m,
and
senator
nemas
will
be
co-chairing
that
meeting.