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From YouTube: Pari-Mutuel Wagering Taxation Task Force (11/19/21)
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A
A
Co-Chair
koenig
here
in
a
room,
we
have
a
quorum.
Thank
you
very
much
like
to
recognize
representative
fister
who's
seen
fit
to
come
and
join
us
and
learn
more.
We
appreciate
that
you'll
have
minutes,
for
our
previous
meeting
on
october.
4Th
sure
will
entertain
a
motion
to
approve
them
as
submitted.
A
Motion
made
by
representative
cook
second
by
representative
dixon,
all
in
favor
signify,
saying
hi
all
opposed
motion
carries
all
right.
We
have
three
items
on
the
agenda
and
we're
going
to
change
the
order
just
a
little
bit
and
we're
gonna,
let
patrick
cummings
with
the
thoroughbred
idea
foundation
begin.
He
is
remote
and
I
believe
he
is
out
of
town
this
weekend
to
celebrate
his
recent
nuptials
that
he
was
not
able
to
celebrate
previously
so
lest
his
family
and
in-laws
think
all
he
does
is
talk
about
this
stuff.
A
G
Thank
you,
chairman
appreciate
it,
and
I
would
have
liked
to
have
been
there
in
person,
but
this
is
certainly
the
next
best
thing.
So
thanks
for
the
opportunity,
I'm
just
going
to
share
my
screen
here
with
the
slides
and
just
make
sure
you
can
see
this
here
in
just
a
moment.
G
Okay,
so
thanks
again
for
the
the
invitation
to
be
with
you,
the
thoroughbred
idea
foundation
is
a
think
tank
and
advocacy
group
it's
privately
funded
and
we
simply
seek
improved
outcomes
for
horse
racing's
optional,
the
voluntary
financial
participants
in
the
sport
horse
owners
and
horse
players.
Of
course
that
is
bitters.
G
Horseracing.
The
ecosystem
in
america
requires
betters
and
the
revenue
that
their
participation
creates.
As
I
said,
bed
airs
are
horse.
Racing's
customers
and
the
decisions
that
are
made
legislatively
across
america
on
racing
can
have
really
far-reaching
effects.
But
while
you
often
see
operators
and
horsemen
come
to
these
sorts
of
events,
the
bettors
tend
not
to
feel
as
recognized
or
as
represented
in
these
circumstances
and
plenty
of
times,
I
think
horse.
G
The
horse
was
removed
from
paramutual
pools,
an
action
which,
more
or
less
can't
be
undone.
The
california
rules
of
racing
kicked
in
and
modern
games
ran
the
race
and
won,
while
everybody
who
had
a
bet
on
modern
games,
sat
idly
by
and
watched
it
and
were
losers
or
simply
got
a
refund
for
others
in
the
race.
Somewhat
unbelievably,
losers
became
winners.
Those
who
bet
the
second
third
and
fourth
place
finishers
were
suddenly
treated
as
if
they
had
run
first.
G
The
breeder
owner,
jockey
trainer
they'll
all
be
paid,
but
it
was
the
horse
players
who
took
the
brunt,
and
it's
just
one
of
many
sobering
realities
for
horse
players,
while
rules
have
evolved
to
focus
very
rightly
on
welfare
safety
performance
and
those
sorts
of
outcomes.
Customer
protections
have
not
evolved
track.
Embedding
operators
actively
seek
the
most
favorable
treatment
possible
horse
owners
and
breeders
enjoy
the
hhr
driven
purse
supplements
in
kentucky
and
some
other
states,
but
they're
also
well
looked
after
with
depreciation
rates
and
other
tax
considerations.
G
G
G
G
The
recommendations
in
this
paper
were
to
consider
modernizing
the
way
in
which
paramutual
winning
dividends
are
calculated,
specifically
adjust
breakage
or
the
breaks
from
the
nearest
dime
to
the
nearest
penny
and
believe
it
or
not.
This
is
within
kentucky
legislative
powers
to
adjust
I'll
give
you
a
brief
explanation
of
breakage
if
anyone's
looking
for
a
more
detailed
calculation
of
how
it
works,
it
is
at
the
end
of
my
slides,
but
I'm
not
otherwise
going
to
get
into
the
very
super
specific
numbers
of
it.
G
All
breakage
is
the
difference
between
what
winning
racing
bettors
should
be
paid
on
winning
bets
and
what
they
are
paid.
It
might
seem
like
an
oddity
that
there's
a
difference
between
the
two,
but
there
is,
and
that
difference
is
the
breakage
breakage
is
the
rounding
down
of
the
return
from
winning
paramutual
racing
wagers
kentucky
statute
requires
that
all
paramutual
winnings
be
rounded
down
to
the
nearest
10
cent
unit
and
that's
also
the
lowest
10
cent
unit.
G
All
states
have
some
form
of
breakage
policies
if
they
allow
for
a
pair
mutual
wagering,
some
are
instituted
by
rule
other
statute
and
in
kentucky
it
is
a
statutory
decision.
The
statute
that's
on
the
screen.
There
is
specific
to
thoroughbred
racing,
krs,
230.36151
and
2.
The
breaks
made
to
calculate
calculated
to
the
dime
after
deducting
paramutual
takeout,
the
total
pool
is
divided
by
the
amount
wagered
on
the
winner
or
winning
combination
in
an
exotic
bet,
a
very
simple
example
where
the
winning
dividend
would
say
just
more
than
9.76.
G
G
As
of
now,
the
breaks
to
the
nearest
lowest
10
cent
unit
are
retained
by
the
bet
taker
that
can
be
on
track,
which
is
a
very
extreme
minority
of
total
racing
wagering,
but
is
very
often
now
off
track
or
through
adws.
They
get
to
keep
the
breakage
states
determine
where
breakage
that
is
retained
at
physical
racetracks
goes,
but
the
amount
that
we're
talking
about
within
the
state's
actual
control
determination
is
very
small.
G
G
But
given
those
handle
figures,
if
the
on-track
breakage
rate
was
extrapolated
across
the
entirety
of
betting,
on
all
races
that
were
in
kentucky,
the
actual
total
is
more
than
9.3
million
dollars,
a
sum
which
represents
more
than
96
of
all
those
rounded
down
pennies
that
was
held
by
bet
takers
for
their
own
use.
The
vast
majority
of
this
money
is
never
felt
by
kentucky,
yet
it's
never
retained
by
kentucky
and,
frankly,
it's
more
or
less
been
this
way
for
pretty
much
the
entire
history
of
paramutual
wagering.
G
We
know
that
has
changed.
Here's
a
small
snippet
from
the
daily
racing
form
of
april
5th
1938,
citing
the
addition
of
more
betting
windows
to
speed
up
activity
in
the
mutual
department.
Time
was
money
and
counting
out.
Pennies
was
not
appreciated
by
the
tracks
and
surely
a
few
of
the
winning
customers
too.
There
was
a
day
where
breakage
was
highly
convenient
for
the
bet
taker
and
in
reality
it
did
offer
some
modicum
of
convenience
for
the
bettors.
But
of
course,
at
some
degree
of
cost,
herbert
swope
was
a
pulitzer
prize
winner.
G
G
After
these
remarks,
you
have
the
ability
now
or
at
some
point
in
the
future,
to
recommend
some
changes
which
could
lead
to
amendments
to
existing
statutes
for
how
the
breaks
are
calculated
for
races
run
in
kentucky
and
impact,
not
just
those
customers
in
kentucky.
But
anyone
outside
of
kentucky
who
is
betting
on
kentucky
races.
G
G
G
G
G
Before
I
finish,
I
just
want
to
take
a
moment
to
address
and
acknowledge
a
few
items
for
consideration,
some
that
we've
addressed
on
our
white
paper,
and
I
think
it's
just
worth
noting
that,
first
that
there
are
other
ways
to
do
this.
This
is
not
the
only
way.
It
is,
however,
probably
the
easiest
way
shifting
from
dime
to
penny.
Breakage
can
be
handled
in
a
few
other
ways,
but
legislatively
in
this
fashion.
G
Shifting
from
dime
to
penny,
probably
the
simplest,
if
you're
interested
in
hearing
some
other
ways,
I
certainly
would
would
be
very
open
to
that.
G
Second
in-person
betting
is
not
going
away.
Tracks
will
need
to
develop
more
modern
ways
to
pay
coins
again.
There
are
several
options
for
tracks
and
simulcasting
outlets
to
do
this
right
now,
if
you
bet
a
dime
superfecta
at
churchill,
downs
or
keeneland,
those
pay
out
up
to
the
penny.
So
it's
not
as
if
we
haven't
been
doing
something
like
this
already
would
just
be
doing
it
on
a
bit
of
a
grander
scale.
Mind
you,
though
that
remains
the
smallest
portion
of
overall
wagering,
a
third
piece
here
and
apologize.
G
I
was
behind
one
slide
there
for
you
down
at
the
bottom,
while
there's
no
public
documentation
on
this
matter,
it's
typically
private.
It's
widely
known
amongst
professional
letters,
those
who
are
wagering
millions,
sometimes
even
tens
and
hundreds
of
millions
of
dollars
annually
they
receive
their
breakage
back
to
them
as
a
rebate.
G
So
I
hope
this
was
helpful
to
you
and
I
I
certainly
look
forward
to
your
questions.
I
know
this
topic,
as
I
mentioned
at
the
beginning,
is
a
bit
in
the
weeds
talking
about
pennies.
But
years
and
years
ago,
legislatures
across
america
decided
to
take
the
first
step
and
take
those
pennies
from
customers
in
the
attempt
to
provide
some
measure
of
convenience,
albeit
at
some
cost.
G
The
world
has
changed.
Purse
supplements
have
changed,
operators
and
horsemen
have
far
greater
sources
of
revenue.
Now,
I'd
like
to
finish
by
calling
on
old
herbert
swope
once
again
he's
credited
with
a
line
that
I'm
sure
you've
certainly
heard
from
a
legislative
capacity.
In
some
point
he
said
I
cannot
give
you
a
surefire
formula
for
success,
but
I
can
give
you
a
formula
for
failure.
G
D
Mr
cummings,
thank
you
for
that
presentation.
Just
one
question.
I
know
it
is
getting
in
the
weeds
a
little
bit
on
breakage,
but
I've
been
well
aware
of
this,
for,
for
quite
a
while
being
a
horse
racing
fan
and
being
a
a
guy
that
likes
to
bet
on
the
ponies.
D
Okay,
but
has
there
been
any
movement
in
other
places,
other
states
to
try
to
recoup
some
of
the
some
of
the
breakage
or
recoup,
maybe
not
a
good
word,
but
or
direct
it
more
to
the
players
themselves
and,
and
if
so,
is
there
anything
that
that
can
be
done
to
enhance
the
sport
enhance,
maybe
reward
those
players
that
actually
come
to
the
track
or
or
to
participate
more.
D
G
You
yeah
that
there
have
representative
gentry,
there's
there's
been
a
couple
steps
that
have
been
taken.
Oaklawn
park
in
arkansas
pays
a
a
premium
for
on-track
bets
in
the
I
believe
it's
the
show
pool,
so
they
actually
pay
a.
I
think
it's
ten
percent
higher
rate
on
show
bets.
They
basically
top
up,
show
bets
on
track,
and
so
that
has
been
one
way
now
mind
you
oakland
park
has
a
very
loyal
following
it's
a
it's.
G
G
The
state
of
new
york
is
the
only
state
that
has
addressed
this
topic
and
they
did
it
very
similar
to
what
kentucky
has
done
here
with
this
task
force.
This
was
a
wholesale
review.
I
believe
it
was
under
governor
mario
cuomo
in
the
late
90s.
If
memory
serves,
but
I
know
the
former
owner
of
the
daily
racing
form,
stephen
christ
was
a
member
of
a
committee
that
looked
into
this
and
they
actually
did
change
breakage
policies
on
new
york
racing.
G
This
was
one
of
the
changes
that
I
referenced.
It's
a
little
bit
more
really
in
the
weeds
representative,
but
for
for
bets
that
return
less
than
10
dollars
the
brakes
go
to
the
nickel
for
bets
that
win
over
between
11
and
50
dollars.
I
believe
it
goes
to
the
dime
and
then
for
bets
that
win
more
than
that.
It
goes
to
the
quarter
and
then
over
a
certain
amount.
G
The
breaks
go
to
the
dollar,
but
our
organization
actually
did
do
some
research
on
this
for
the
new
york
racing
association
several
years
ago,
when
we
first
brought
this
topic
up
and
the
reality
was
customers
who
bet
on
racing
in
new
york,
the
breakage
rate
only
ends
up
being
about
four
tenths
of
a
percent,
whereas
in
kentucky,
as
I
showed
earlier,
it's
over
about
point
six
or
six
tenths
of
a
percent.
G
So
once
they
tackled
this
a
little
bit,
they
made
an
adjustment
in
the
90s
and
they
haven't
gone
back
to
it,
since
this
would
be
a
a
more
aggressive
change
for
any
american
racing
jurisdiction
and
again,
I
think
it's
one
that
that
just
makes
a
lot
of
sense
to
to
do
at
this
time.
D
D
D
I
don't
know
whether
that's
coming
to
the
track
or
whatever
and
there's
a
actually
a
pool
of
money
that
everybody's
trying
to
get,
and
I
I
think
you
could
do
a
lot
of
things
from
a
marketing
standpoint
from
a
publicity
standpoint-
and
this
is
just
one
of
many
suggestions-
I
the
the
fear
I
have
with
with
adding
a
little
bit
to
a
show,
pool
how
recognizable
is
that
going
to
be
and
and
what
is
the
sport
really
benefiting
benefiting
from
that,
except
the
the
ardent
gambler
that
that
actually
pays
attention
to
that
small
percentage?
A
I'm
just
gonna
point
out-
and
I've
pointed
this
out-
I
think
publicly
before
and
mentioned
it
to
the
tracks
and
the
representatives.
You
know
in
the
last
few
months
that
you
know
we've
there's
really
three
things
we
need
to
make
horse
racing
go,
we
need
the
breeders
and
the
owners,
we
need
the
tracks
and
we
need
bettors
and
we've
taken
care
of
the
first
two
and
if
we
do
anything.
C
A
As
far
as
I'm
concerned,
we're
gonna
take
care
of
the
last
group,
and
this
is
you
know
one
of
the
possible
ways
and
I
think
the
easiest
and
best
way
to
do
it.
I've
waited
for
encourage
the
tracks
to
give
me
their
thoughts
and
suggestions.
A
I've
not
heard
anything
from
them
yet
on
on
this,
I
would
have
loved
for
it
to
have
been
their
idea,
and
I
think
that
if
we
did
some
more
all
of
what's
being
suggested
here,
that
not
only
would
you
know,
players
benefit,
but
I
think
the
tracks
in
a
and
the
state
would
benefit,
because
more
of
that
money
would
be
put
back
in
and
for
people
that
do
this
on
a
regular
basis,
make
their
livelihoods
in
in
part
by
wagering.
A
When
you
can
get
a
better
return,
and
you
bet
enough
money,
it's
worth
it
to
take
your
money
away
from
places
that
don't
do
that
to
some
place
where
you're
going
to
get
more
return
for
your
larger
bets,
and
so
I
think
I
think
it
would
attract
more
bettors
and
quite
possibly
be
a
money-making
choice
for
the
tracks.
But
you
know
they
have
business
analysts
that
probably
know
better
than
I
do
about
these
things,
but
certainly
it
won't
be
a
complete
for
lack
of
a
better
term
loss.
A
They
will,
they
will
see
more
money,
come
back
in
one
way
or
the
other,
so
something's
going
to
happen
in
this
regard.
As
far
as
I'm
concerned,
if
going
forward,
so
thank
you
pat.
We
appreciate
you
taking
time
out
of
your
trip
thanks
chairman
all
right
next
item,
we're
going
to
have
rick
hiles
from
the
hbpa
come
and
talk
about
thoroughbred
development
fund
for
kentucky
racing,
so
we're
gonna
send
somebody
down
make
sure
we
got
the
powerpoint
working
correctly.
A
H
You
go
there,
we
go
yeah,
we
got
it.
Okay.
Did
everybody
hear
me?
Yes,
first,
okay.
I've
also
been
a
director
on
the
kentucky
thoroughbred
development
fund
board
advisory
board
that
we
do
things
we're
here
this
morning
to
speak
to
you
about
changing
a
statute
to
allow
us
to
change
the
kentucky
thoroughbred
development
fund
payments.
H
H
At
the
time
the
funding
was
minimal.
We
couldn't
afford
to
put
it
on
all
the
races
for
kentucky
breads,
so
they
decided
that
the
best
thing
to
do
was
to
put
it
into
your
non-claiming
events,
which
would
be
maidens
allowances
and
steak.
Events
to
the
better
higher
class
horses,
unfortunately,
claiming
horses
make
up
about
50
percent
of
the
races
and
the
only
running
for
about
17
of
the
money.
H
Probably
five
years
ago,
they
were
using
what
they
called
optional,
claiming
races
that
were
to
the
point
they
couldn't
fill
the
allowance
races.
So
they
allowed
a
horse
that
had
run
through
its
conditions
to
run
for
a
claiming
price
in
those
races
at
25,
000
or
above
the
problem
was
when
they
first
started.
This
you
had
horses
running
for
conditions
running
for
the
full
purse
and
the
horse
that
was
running
for
the
claiming
price
running
for
a
lot
less
purse.
So
we
decided
that's
not
fair.
H
H
So
what
we
want
to
do
is
we've
got
quite
a
bit
of
money.
Now
that's
in
this
fund,
and
so
we
feel
that
we
can
open
this
fund
up
to
give
to
non-claiming
I
mean
to
claiming
horses,
not
only
the
non-climbing
horses
and
without
interfering
with
the
purses
on
the
upper
level.
Horses.
We've
got
four
facilities
on
board
right
now.
H
It's
going
to
help
the
owners
number
one,
because
they're
going
to
run
for
more
purse
money,
it
may
entice
an
average
guy
that
wants
to
get
into
horse
racing
business
such
as
representative
gentry
or
somebody
that
more
money
that
he
can
make
with
just
a
regular
everyday
cleaning
horse.
H
It
allows
him
to
enjoy
the
game
and
it
may
even
create
more
claiming
going
on
in
which
the
general
fund
and
the
state
benefits
from
that,
because
every
time
a
horse
gets
claimed,
this
general
fund
gets
a
six
percent
sales
tax
on
the
value
of
that
horse.
Every
time
he's
claimed
and
just
to
put
that
in
perspective,
for
you
this
year,
there's
been
923
horses
claimed
for
22
million
four
hundred
thousand
dollars,
so
that
has
created
just
a
little
over
1.3
million
for
the
general
fund
in
revenues.
H
It
also
is
going
to
help
the
breeders,
because,
when
they
put
their
horses
in
the
sale
and
the
prodigency
of
the
broodmare,
the
earnings
per
fall
is
maybe
go
up
some
and
so
that
may
be
enticed
somebody
else
to
buy
the
horse
more
and
pay
more
for
the
horse,
because
you
look
at
how
much
the
foals
have
earned
out
of
a
broodmare
and
the
more
they
earn.
The
more
you're
enticed
to
say
well,
she's
a
pretty
good
producer.
Let's,
let's
take
a
chance
on
that.
So.
H
Anyway,
we
feel
like
that
this
is
the
right
thing
to
do.
H
Of
course,
all
of
this
would
have
to
go
before
the
kentucky
thoroughbred
development
fund
advisory
board
to
set
the
rates
and
how
much
each
race
would
get.
You
know
we
wouldn't
want
to
overload
claiming
races
to
the
point
that
it
became
noticeably
bad.
You
know,
but
so
we're
here
to
ask
you
to
consider
this
and
to
let
us
allow
put
money
into
non-claiming.
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
Thank
you,
mr
house,
for
being
here.
I
agree
with
everything
you've
said,
especially
the
part
about
it
cost
just
as
much
to
keep
a
five
thousand
dollar
claim,
as
it
does
an
allowance
for
us.
That's
sure,
absolutely
true
and
and
then
find
some
of
those
people
in
those
positions
that
owned
those
horses
were
running
for
a
purse
that
they
can
win
that
month
and
it
doesn't
even
cover
the
cover
the
month,
training
bet,
bills
and
stuff.
They
don't
have
so
we.
B
We
can
definitely
look
at
that,
but
I
think
there
is
a
a
line
that
we
have
to
be
aware
of
and
watch
as
you
well
know
where
we
don't
create
an
opportunity
we
have
to.
There
has
to
be
a
quality
control
in
there
to
make
sure
we're
not
maybe
somebody
out
there
that
would
play
to
enter
a
horse,
and
maybe
shouldn't
be
running
that
day,
because
the
purse
is
so
extremely
high
that
they
want
to
throw
it
in
there.
B
So
I
think,
with
that,
we
have
to
be
very
qui
very
aware
of
our
stick
with
our
quality
over
quantity
and
still
taking
care
of
the
people
that,
because
those
are
the
backbone
of
the
industry,
you
go
to
turfway
park
this
winter.
Those
are
the
people,
that's
what's
keeping
this
industry
running
right
here,
so
we
need
to
help
them.
We
need
to
increase
those
persons
and
make
it
work,
but
at
the
same
time,
let's
not
get
crazy,
like
some
other
states
have
done
and
maybe
create
a
dangerous
platform.
That's
out
there.
H
Yeah
and
I
agree
with
all
your
work
on
that-
I
agree
with
you.
I
think
that
our
smaller
tracks
like
ellis
park
and
turfway
park
would
benefit
more
from
this
than
churchill
downs,
where
kingland
would,
because
their
purses
are
so
much
lower
and
people
are
trying
to.
You
know
having
a
hard
time
up
there,
sometimes
if
they're
running
for
a
seven
or
eight
thousand
dollar
person,
they're
shipping
in
or
the
training
expense
or
bet
bills.
H
But
I
agree
with
you:
we
don't
want
to
make
them
look
unordinary
to
whom
the
public
or
somebody
looks
at
this
and
say
what
are
these
guys
doing?
You
know,
and
so
that's
why
this
would
have
to
go
before
the
kentucky
thoroughbred
development
fund
advisory
board
to
keep
the
levels
that
we
would
put
on
the
smaller
claiming
races
intact,
where
it
would
be.
B
H
H
H
And
it
may
entice
someone
to
say
you
know,
this
is
a
fun
game
and
the
more
people
you
get
to
take
it
participate
in
this,
the
more
you're
going
to
get
back
to
the
track
and
we'll
get
to
what
mr
cummings
was
talking
about.
The
adw's
have
just
taken
over
this
industry
to
where
we
need
the
people
to
come
back
to
the
racetracks.
Now
like
they
used
to
be.
F
Rick
marty,
good
to
see
you
a
full
disclosure.
I've
known
these
two
gentlemen
for
as
long
as
I've
been
in
kentucky
and
that's
29
years
this
month,
and
it's
good
to
see
you
both
rick,
I'm
really
happy
to
see
you're
on
the
road
to
healthy
recovery,
really
good
to
see
you.
You
look
and
sound
well,
and
that
makes
me
very
happy
been.
F
Yeah,
well
we're
glad
you're
here.
I
agree
with
everything
these
gentlemen
presented
today.
This
is
not
a
new
idea,
but
it's
an
idea
whose
time
has
come.
I
tried
to
get
it
passed
in
2009
that
it
caught
up
that
got
caught
up
then
in
the
the
debate
over
hhr,
which
has
now
been
settled
with
senate
bill,
120.
F
F
Not
every
horse
becomes
an
allowance
horse
and,
like
you
said,
the
numbers
are
was
at
50
percent
of
the
races
are
claiming
races
and
that's
the
that's,
the
bread
and
butter,
the
backbone
of
the
sport,
and
I
think
it's
time
that
we
change
the
statute
and
allow
those
some
of
those
ktdf
monies
to
be
used
for
kentucky
breads
that
run
in
claiming
races.
F
I
do
agree
with
representative
cook:
we
need
to
be
careful
not
to
overload
them
and
have
a
situation
like
they
had
in
new
york,
where
the
purses
were
so
big
on
claiming
races
that
it
created
an
incentive
to
keep
horses
in
racing
that
should
have
been
retired
and
we
want
we
want.
We
want
to
avoid
that.
I
mean,
let's,
let's
make
sure
that
the
purses
are
commensurate
with
the
the
horse's
value.
But
I
do
think
it's
a
great
idea.
F
It's
been
suggested
that
we
statutorily
set
a
floor
for
the
level
of
claiming
race
that
it
would
be
allowed
up
allowed
on,
but
I
would
rather,
we
change
the
statute
and
keep
it
more
broad
and
then
for
all
claiming
races
and
then
let
the
ktdf
advisory
board
make
recommendations
and
and
actually
set
the
rules
through
the
racing
commission.
Am
I
correct.
H
F
I
mean
during
during
the
winter,
for
example:
turfway
park
is
competing
with
mahoning
valley
and
near
youngstown
akron,
ohio
area
for
those
for
those
kind
of
horses,
and
it's
not
it's
not
a
very
far
drive
about
three
hour
van
ride,
right
up
to
mahoning
valley
to
run
your
horse.
So
that's
that's!
A
competitive
situation
during
the
summer
ellis
park
is
competing
with
indiana,
indiana
so
and
maybe
fairmont
park
in
illinois.
If
well,
it's
now
called
fanduel
race
park
right.
F
If,
if,
if
things
take
off
there
like
it,
could
that'll
be
putting
some
downward
competitive
pressure?
So
do
you
think
the
best
thing
for
us
is
to
simply
change
the
statute,
to
allow
ktdf
money
to
be
used
for
kentucky
breads
running
and
claiming
and
starter
allowance
races
and
then
leave
it
up.
Leave
the
details
up
to
the
ktdf
advisory
board
with
final
sign
off
by
the
racing
commission.
H
I
think
that's
absolutely
correct
and
you
didn't
mention
colonial
downs.
We
lost
a
lot
of
horses
this
summer
colonial
downs.
What
it
is
the
claimers
are
leaving
the
state
during
the
periods
of
ellis
park
and
turfway,
because
the
purses
are
so
much
bigger
and
we
want
to
keep
them
here
and
keep
in
mind.
This
only
will
apply
to
kentucky
bread,
horses
that
are
being
bred
in
kentucky
and
it
won't
apply
to
other
states
breed.
F
And
to
be
sure,
planting
races
run
at
keenland
and
churchill
are
an
important
part
of
the
daily
race
program
there
exactly.
But
what
we
need
to
remember
is
to
your
point
about
kentucky
brands,
the
reason
this
program
and
it's
a
one
of
a
kind
in
the
country
we're
the
only
state
where
we
don't
have
races,
restricted
just
to
state
brad's
right
other,
every
other
state.
They
have
races
restricted
just
to
state
bread
right.
We
say
all
comers
come
in
the
race
and
we
supplement
the
purses
for
an
existing
race,
so
a
maiden
at
turfway's.
F
If
it's
kentucky
brad
it's
running
for
sixty
thousand,
if
it's
pennsylvania,
bread
they
run
for
thirty
right,
it
creates
what
what
when
it
was
set
up
by
by
nick
nicholson
and
don
ball,
and
folks,
like
that
back
in
the
day,
it
was
set
up
to
create
an
incentive
for
people
to
buy
kentucky
breads
at
our
sales,
from
people
like
representative
cook
and
and
the
thousands
of
other
people
who
do
what
he
does
and
then
race
them
in
kentucky.
Exactly
so.
H
F
As
and
I
think,
it's
probably
better
to
have
a
panel
of
people
who
are
keeping
up
with
this
every
day
to
to
make
that
judgment
call
rather
than
have
the
general
assembly
set,
that
set
that
level.
H
And,
to
give
you
an
example
myself,
when
I
go
to
the
sales
or
even
looking
at
claiming
a
horse,
if
he's
not
a
kentucky
bread,
I
just
forget
about
him
anymore,
and
I
know
a
lot
of
owners
are
doing
that
too.
They
say
well
we're
going
to
race
in
kentucky.
We
want
the
kentucky
bridge
to
be
eligible
for
the
money
by
putting
this
down
into
the
claiming
races.
It
even
enhances
them
more
to
look
at
that
area.
F
D
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
mr
chair,
and
thank
you
guys
for
being
here
and
addressing
this
issue.
I'm
really
glad
to
hear
this
and
like
he
often
does
senator
thayer
stole
my
thunder
a
little
bit,
but
I
just
want
to
say
first
of
all
anything
that
makes
the
sport
stronger
and
more
accessible.
I'm
for
I
I
agree
with
senator
there.
I
don't
think
it
should
be
us
that
is
setting
the
amounts
that
they
could
put
into
the
claiming
starter,
lounge
traces.
D
However,
we
need
to
give
you
the
right
to
be
able
to
do
that,
because
you
know
the
claiming
races
is
the
heart
and
soul
of
horse
racing
on
a
daily
basis
at
the
track.
You
know
we
have
our
big
days
where
we
go
out
there
and
we
we
see
the
top
horse
horses
come
in
from
wherever
to
run
the
big
stakes
races,
but
if
you're
out
there
on
a
tuesday
wednesday
thursday,
you
guys.
D
The
heart
of
the
business,
the
every
day
of
the
business
is
the
claiming
ranks
and
your
percentages
bear
that
out
and
what
I
have
seen
with
a
lot
of
my
friends
that
follow
horse
racing
that
are
not
wealthy.
Owners
is
they're
getting
involved
in
ownership
and
these
little
syndicates
and
it's
a
lot
of
fun
and
in
many
cases
they
don't
really
make
anything
but
it.
But
it's
a
nice
way
to
get
to
the
track
and
learn
and
get
closer
to
the
sport
meet
the
trainers,
meet
the
jockeys
meet.
D
You
know
it's
a
it's
a
great
thing
and
that's
how
you
get
people
involved
that
otherwise
can't
afford
to
get
involved
in
the
sport.
So
I
think
this
will
help
that
and
I
I
would
be
very
supportive
of
this
piece
of
legislation
and-
and
there
was
one
other
thought
I
had
too
and
I've
kind
of
lost
it.
D
Oh,
let
me
just
say
this:
I
became
a
big
fan
of
horse
racing
when
I
was
like
eight
or
nine
years
old
and-
and
I
remember
this
like
it
was
yesterday,
this
is
when
I
became
a
horse
racing
fan.
This
is
when
I
became
began
a
fan
of
gambling
too,
which
may
not
be
a
good
thing,
but
I
won
the
the
pot
at
the
end
of
the
street
in
the
neighborhood
when
cannonade
won
the
100th
running
of
the
derby,
and
I
was
I
was
on
cloud
nine,
you
know,
I
think
it
it.
D
It
cost
me
a
dime
to
put
in
and
pull
that
little
name
out
of
the
hat.
You
know
that
all
the
neighborhood
kids
were
involved
with,
and
I
think
I
won
two
dollars
out
of
it
and
do
you
have
any
idea
how
much
candy
two
dollars
bought
in
1973
or
four
or
whatever
it
was
and
and
let's
just
say
I
came
home
that
day
and
I
learned
a
lot
of
life
lessons
you
know.
D
I
first
of
all
my
mother
taught
me
how
to
manage
money
better
than
going
to
the
store
and
spending
my
whole
two
dollars
on
candy.
But
what
she
didn't
know
is.
D
I
learned
a
big
lesson
about
networking
how
many
friends
I
acquired
that
day
when
I
came
three
bags
of
candy
home
at
eight
or
nine
years
old,
and
I
think
that's
where
I
got
my
name
little
allen,
the
littlest
kid
in
the
neighborhood
became
big
al
that
day,
but
anyway,
the
point
of
what
I
wanted
to
say
is
whatever
we
can
do
to
get
more
people
involved
with
the
sport
that
otherwise
may
not
be
able
to
afford
to
get
involved
in
ways
that
they
can
actually
get
involved
with.
H
I've
talked
way
too
long.
Thank
you.
I
will
tell
you
one
thing
for
the
people
that
want
to
get
involved
and
it
and
I
don't
care
if
it's
a
5,
000
claimer
or
a
allowance
race,
the
adrenaline
rush
and
the
shrill
that
they
get
when
that
horse
is
coming
to
the
finish
line.
First,
you
can't
explain
it
it's
just
it
overwhelms
you,
and
so
we
used
to
have
eight
ten,
twelve
horses
and
every
clamoring
race.
H
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I
want
to
shift
gears
guys
for
just
a
quick
second
here
and
you'll
have
to
forgive
me,
because
I'm
a
finance
guy
talking
about
horses,
not
a
horse
guy,
talking
about
finances,
so
my
questions
might
be
super
basic
and
even
misphrased.
Is
there
some
inside
of
the
standard
breads?
Is
there
some
kind
of
a
purse
change
for
kentucky,
sires
or
anything
in
in
coming
up
in
in
the
next
year?
I've
had
this
question
posed
to
me,
and
I
don't
even
know
I
don't
have
a
good
frame
of
reference.
F
Think
I
can
answer
that
the
kentucky
sire
stakes
is
funded
by
through
the
kentucky
breeders
incentive
fund,
which
is
funded
by
the
sales
tax
on
stud
fees,
and
they
are,
I
believe,
it's
at
the
red
mile
every
september
and
I
believe,
they're
thinking
of
expanding
it,
either
at
the
red
mile
or
one
of
the
new
tracks
in
oak
grove
or
corbin.
F
But
if
we
can
talk
offline,
I
can
probably
put
you
in
touch
with
someone
who
has
more
details
on
that
yeah.
That's
great
and
thanks.
F
A
Something
I've,
I
think,
is
important
and
have
had
in
my
sports
wagering
bill
the
last
few
years
and
before
you
all
get
started.
Let
me
just
state
and
people
are
surprised
to
learn
this
between.
A
Mutual
wagering,
the
lottery
and
charitable
gaming
kentucky
does
zero
for
problem
gaming
and
that's
unusual
and
frankly,
unacceptable,
and
so
mike
is
here
as
he
works
on
loading
up
his
powerpoint.
A
He
has
provided
us
voluminous
information.
Anything
you
want
to
know
is
is
in
the
packet,
I
believe,
but
we
worked
on
a
a
powerpoint
that
will
get
to
the
point
and
kind
of
discuss
what
needs
to
be
discussed.
A
B
A
Thank
you
absolutely.
If
you'll
y'all
will
introduce
yourselves
for
the
record
before.
E
E
E
The
council
cites
evidence
that
excessive
gambling
is
a
public
health
issue
that
can
be
best
addressed
through
a
state-operated
program
of
evidence-based
approaches
to
prevention,
mitigation
and
counseling.
The
council
is
not
advocating
to
get
funding
for
itself.
It
is
advocating
for
services
for
the
problem
gambler
and
their
families
and
for
society.
E
The
council
notes
two
of
the
most
significant
factors
for
individuals
to
gamble.
To
access
are
opportunity
and
proximity
with
expanded
gambling
opportunity
in
kentucky
more
people
will
be
closer
to
increased
gambling
opportunity.
The
need
for
a
publicly
funded
problem
in
addicted
gambling,
education
prevention
and
treatment
program
is
justified.
More
than
ever
before.
E
The
council
urges
the
kentucky
general
assembly
to
authorize
such
a
program
and
establish
a
recurring
funding
mechanism
from
existing
and
projected
revenue.
The
state
will
receive
from
legally
approved
gambling
kentucky
is
a
gambling
state,
most
kentucky
adults
gamble
and
gambling
expansion
over
the
last
10
years
makes
it
easier
to
gamble.
If
people
gamble
some
will
develop
a
gambling
problem
or
addiction.
E
The
harvard
medical
school
division
on
addictions
meta
study
remains
the
most
cited
reference
of
the
extent
of
addicted
gambling.
It
concluded.
One
percent
of
a
population
suffers
from
a
gambling
addiction.
That's
about
30
000
adults
in
kentucky
the
same
study,
pegs
problem
gambling
at
3
percent
are
some
90
000
kentucky
adults.
E
E
E
E
Gambling's
potential
impact
on
society
and
the
value
of
increasing
awareness
of
potential
harm
from
excessive
gambling
can
be
inferred
from
last
month's
announcement
by
the
national
football
league
that
its
nfl
foundation
will
grant.
6.2
million
dollars
over
the
next
three
years
to
the
national
council
on
problem
gambling,
which
will
use
the
funds
to
increase
prevention
and
responsible
gambling
messaging.
E
E
Following
the
release
of
lrc
report
number
316,
the
kentucky
council
on
problem
gambling
developed
a
five-year
plan
implementing
problem
gambling
services,
beginning
at
1.4
million
in
year,
one
increasing
to
3.7
million.
In
year
five,
the
state
now
receives
around
300
million
annually
in
receipts
from
legislatively
sanctioned
gambling
a
projection
cited
in
a
recent
paramutual
wagering
taxation
task
force
meeting
estimated
increased
revenue
from
historical
horse
racing
at
more
than
50
million
dollars
per
year
without
any
changes
to
the
tax
on
pair
mutual
wagering.
E
Even
funding
at
five
percent
of
that
projected
annual
increase
in
state
revenue
from
legal
gambling
would
fund
a
credible
program
in
kentucky
problem
and
addicted.
Gambling
is
a
public
health
issue
that
can
be
best
addressed
through
a
state-operated
program
of
evidence-based
approaches
to
prevention,
mitigation
and
counseling.
E
The
council
urges
the
general
assembly
to
designate
a
portion
of
the
revenue
received
for
legal
gambling
to
fund
a
public
program
of
problem
and
addicted
gambling.
Education
prevention
and
counseling
services,
the
opportunity
and
means-
are
before
the
general
assembly,
and
now
mr
arnett
has
a
brief
statement.
C
Thank
you
mike
I'm,
a
member
of
the
board
of
the
kentucky
council
on
problem
gambling
and
I'm
also
recovering
compulsive
gambler.
I
am
one
of
those
statistics
that
is
mentioned
by
mike
stone
I'll
skip
the
second
sentence,
because
I
am
here-
I've
recovered
from
the
health
problem
that
I
have.
I
was
a
practicing
attorney
in
northern
kentucky
for
almost
40
years,
I
began
gambling
in
1999
at
various
casinos
and
race
tracks.
C
I
developed
a
gambling
addiction
over
a
period
of
several
years.
To
the
extent
it
cost
me
my
career,
my
home
livelihood,
eventually
my
freedom
as
I
stole
from
clients
to
feed
my
addiction.
I
ultimately
was
charged
with
multiple
felony
counsel,
theft
and
forgery
convicted
and
given
a
10-year
prison
sentence,
of
which
I
served
three
years.
C
Compulsive
gamblers
in
this
state
would
greatly
benefit
from
programs
created
and
funded
by
legally
approved
gambling
legislation
to
be
used
for
awareness,
prevention
and
treatment
of
gambling
addiction.
Currently,
most
medical
insurance
carriers
do
not
cover
inpatient
treatment
for
gambling
addiction,
nor
other
treatment
options
that
will
be
covered
by
such
legislation.
C
A
Thank
you,
mr
stone.
Thank
you,
mr
arnett,
for
coming
and
telling
your
story
appreciate
that.
First,
before
I
open
up
to
questions,
I've
been
informed
via
text
that
all
tracks
do
put
some
amount
of
money
and
effort
to
problem
gaming.
So
I
didn't
mean
to
insinuate
that
they
didn't.
I'm
just
was
trying
to
say
that
we
as
a
general
assembly
and
the
government
have
never
required
that
don't
put
any
any
funds
to
it
and
or
require
that
funds
be
put
to
it.
A
So,
but
I
we
do
appreciate
that,
so
any
questions
for
our
presenters.
D
I
feel
like
I'm,
asking
a
lot
of
questions
all
right
guys,
thanks
for
being
here,
probably
know,
I've
long
been
an
advocate
for
problem
gaming
or
tax
revenues
from
gaming
activities
to
go
toward
expanding
the
programs
that
you
guys
offer,
and
thanks
for
what
you
do,
you
talked
a
little
bit
about
opportunity
and
proximity
being
the
drivers
here
of
problem
gaming
and
and
societal
costs
that
go
along
with
problem.
Gaming
are
gambling
gaming.
E
The
statistics
are
that
addicted
gamblers
have
a
the
spouse,
and
family
of
addicted
gamblers
suffer
from
significant
additional
abuse
that
needs
to
be
taken.
Care
of
employment,
loss
of
productivity,
unemployment,
insurance
costs
can
be
traced
to
gambling.
Bankruptcy
is
a
significant
cost
for
gambling
and
then,
of
course,
the
criminal
justice
costs
of
prosecution
and
what
goes
into.
E
D
Zoe
god
continue,
mr
chair.
Thank
you.
So
it's
pretty
accurate
to
say
additional
crime
evictions,
bankruptcies,
foreclosures.
D
These
are
all
common
things
and
tend
to
generate
more
government
management
issues
at
the
local
level
as
much,
if
not
more
than
at
the
state
level,
and
I've
said
before
that.
I
think
two
of
the
glaring
omissions
we
have
with
our
tax
revenues.
Is
you
guys
more
investment
in
problem
gaming?
I
see
this
states
all
over
the
country
and
the
other
thing
is:
there's
not
one
penny
that
goes
into
local
government
now.
D
I
know
I
mentioned
that
on
a
tv
show
earlier
and
and
did
not
know
that
league
of
cities
and
caico
wasn't
pushing
that
and
was
really
surprised
to
hear
that.
But
you
know,
if
they're
not
pushing
it,
then
why
should
I?
D
But
at
least
you
guys
really
want
to
see
something
done
for
you
guys,
and
I
think
you
put
you
play
a
very
important
role
and
and
I'll
also
want
to
congratulate
the
gentleman
beside
you,
who's
recovering
addict,
and
you
could
probably
talk
on
this
better
than
anybody,
because
you've
had
personal
experiences
and
it's
a
real
thing,
and
I
also
want
to
mention
too,
for
people
that
are
listening
and
don't
know
this.
D
There's
a
little
bit
of
a
backstory,
mr
stone
might
be
able
to
talk
about
this
a
little
bit
about
the
role
that
tom
meeker
former
president
had
on
seeing
the
interest
in
in
your
type
of
work
way
back
when,
and
so
I
don't
want
to
address
this
as
somehow
pointing
fingers
at
the
horse
racing
industry,
because
I
don't
really
think
that's
that's
accurate,
but
but
tom
knew
the
importance
of
this,
and
I
think
and
correct
me
if
I'm
wrong,
but
I
think
he
can
advocate
it
for
for
the
type
of
work
that
that
that
you
do
so.
E
I'll
be
happy
to
to
say
first
that
all
of
the
horse
racing
tracks
in
kentucky
are
members
of
the
kentucky
council
on
problem
gambling
support
our
efforts
and
our
utilizes
our
awareness
materials.
E
They
were
clean
in
that
regard,
but
they
weren't
improving,
emotionally
and
and
health-wise.
So
he
started
to
investigate
and
he
found
out
that
they
were
gambling
to
excess
and
then
he
found
out
there.
There
really
was
a
thing
from
dr
custer
at
brexville,
va
hospital
in
cleveland.
That
addicted
gambling
was
being
recognized
from
the
american
psychiatric
association.
E
So
he
went
and
spoke
with
mr
meeker
and
between
mr
meeker
and
mr
gleason
at
the
kentucky
lottery,
the
two
of
them
arranged
to
have
the
initial
funding
for
the
kentucky
council
on
problem
gambling,
so
they
were
instrumental
at
the
start.
When
mr
gleason
passed,
we
named
a
responsible
gaming
leadership
award
in
his
in
his
name
and
the
first
recipient
was
mr
meeker.
D
Thank
you
very
much
for
that,
and,
and
just
ask
my
colleagues
to
remember
you
know,
opportunity
and
proximity
are
the
drivers
of
of
this
type
of
activity.
I
also
want
to
reiterate
the
fact
that
most
of
the
people
that
participate
in
gaming
activities
do
not
have
these
problems,
but
there
are
a
percentage
that
do
and
for
those
you
know,
gambling
is
here.
It's
always
been
here.
D
D
C
Dealing
with
the
onset
of
my
addiction,
the
biggest
handicap
that
I
had
was
consulting
a
certified
gambling
counselor.
As
max
commented
upon
this
issue
and
his
notes,
there
are
now
five
certified
counselors
available
in
kentucky.
That's
woefully
inadequate.
At
the
time
I
was
seeking
the
services
of
a
counselor.
C
C
There
are
no
inpatient
treatment
facilities
in
this
state
there.
As
I
mentioned,
there
are
no
certified
counselors
in
my
area
and
there's
only
very
few
throughout
the
state
that
can
only
be
arranged
by
legislation
that
would
pay
for
those
kind
of
facilities.
If
I
could
have
just
had
help
early
on,
it
would
have
changed
my
life.
C
C
C
A
I
just
have
one
comment,
which
is.
I
believe
that
we
need
with
the
advent
of
these,
of
the
hhr
facilities.
We
need
to
have
a
self-exclusion
list
or
require
that
there
be
a
self-exclusion
list.
Now
they
may
do
that
on
their
own,
but
that
that
be
done
and
that
they
are
able
to
share
that
information
with
with
the
or
required
to
share
that
information.
I
should
say
with
other
tracks
and
that's
pretty
typical,
with
casinos
across
the
country,
so
that'll
be
in
any
legislation
I
may
file.
A
Putting
up
with
us
thank
you
now
we
appreciate
what
you
do
all
right,
so
we've
heard
lots
of
good
testimony
in
five
meetings.
We
all
received
a
draft
report
that
included
the
information
from
the
first
four
meetings
co-chair
there,
and
I
have
discussed
this
and
I
believe
he
has
a
a
motion
on
on
the
draft
report.
F
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I
do
first
of
all
I
would,
since
this
will
be
our
last
meeting.
I
want
to
thank
the
staff
led
by
jennifer
hayes
and
tom
hewlett
kevin
branscomb,
chase
o'dell
and
grant
minix
they've
done
a
great
job
working
with
us,
and
this
added,
of
course,
to
their
burden
for
the
regular
committees
that
they
do.
In
particular,
I
want
to
point
out
the
excellent
writing
done
by
jennifer
hayes
and
grant
minix
on
the
draft
report
very
well
done.
F
C
E
A
E
Does
it
have
about
21
pages
on
it?
A
B
A
A
Seeing
none
all
in
favor,
please
signify
by
saying
aye
aye
any
opposed.
No,
no
okay,
pain
in
the
chair
of
the
eyes.
Have
it
and
motion
carries
anything
else
for
the
good
of
the
order.
A
Not
I
appreciate
all
the
members
participation
in
this
task
force
and
I
would
like
to
echo
co-chair
thayer's
comments
about
the
staff.
We
appreciate
everything
you've
done
and
it's
been
a.
I
think,
a
good
task
force
and
we've
learned
a
lot
we'll
have
a
lot
of
good
suggestions
and
and
thoughts
to
deal
with
coming
session.
So
having
come
to
the
end
of
the
agenda,
we
stand
adjourned.
Thank
you.