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C
C
D
A
Here,
thank
you.
We
have
a
quorum.
We
I'll
take
a
motion
to
approve
the
minutes.
We
have
a
motion
from
representative
Fleming
of
a
second
from
Senator
nemes,
all
in
favor
signify
by
saying
aye.
All
opposing
a
minutes
are
approved
all
right,
so
we
are
here
today
to
talk
about
some
issues
in
juvenile
Regional,
juvenile
detention,
centers
globally,
more
particularly
the
one
in
Linden
and
Jefferson
County,
and
so
today
to
testify.
We
have
the
cabinet
secretary,
Kerry
Harvey.
A
We
also
have
the
commissioner
of
just
Vicki
Reed
for
the
Department
of
Juvenile
Justice,
mayor
of
the
city
of
Linden,
Brent
Hagen,
who
will
be
called
up
in
in
a
moment,
and
we
we
have
one
other
gentleman
here:
Michael
Ross,
who
is
a
former
employee
of
the
of
the
cabinet,
so
I
think
Mr
secretary.
Thank
you
for
coming,
commissioner.
Thank
you,
I
think.
What
we'll
do
is
we'll
ask
if
you
have
any
opening
remarks.
A
C
D
D
I
have
been
in
our
current
positions
for
a
little
more
than
a
year
and
as
I
think
all
of
you
know
the
Department
of
Juvenile
Justice,
like
really
all
the
agencies
in
our
cabinet
has
a
mission
that
is
very
challenging.
Even
in
the
best
of
times,
we
currently
confront
a
set
of
circumstances
that
make
our
daily
operations
even
more
difficult.
D
In
order
to
give
you
a
better
understanding
of
the
topics
that
that
I
think
you're
interested
in
today,
I'll
start
by
giving
you
some
general
background
information
related
to
the
department
and
then
we'll
talk
about
some
of
the
recent
issues
that
the
Juvenile
Detention
Center
in
Jefferson
County
and
then
we'll
talk
about
what
we're
doing
to
address
our
current
situation.
Then
we'll
be
happy
to
answer
your
questions
as
best
we
can
and
and
I.
D
Don't
some
you
all
may
know
all
of
this,
but
just
in
case
you
don't
DJJ
operates
eight
Regional
Detention
facilities
across
the
state.
These
tend
to
be
relatively
small
facilities,
they're,
not
like
our
adult
institutions
where
they
keep
hundreds.
We
may
keep.
You
know
a
few
dozen
at
most
probably,
and
we
detain
youth
that
the
court
sends
us.
We
have
no
control
over
the
front
door
of
these
facilities.
There
may
be
law
law
enforcement
officer
that
drops
off
a
car
load
that
a
judge
has
ordered
detained.
D
You
know
at
three
o'clock
in
the
morning
and
it's
our
job
to
to
keep
them.
Today
we
have
approximately
approximately
207
in
detention
across
the
state
and
between
I
think
11
and
13
in
Jefferson,
County
and
I
say
approximately,
because
that
number
could
change
it
could
have
changed
while
I've
been
speaking,
it
changes
all
the
time.
D
What
we've
seen
over
time
is
that
there
seem
to
be
more
detainees
across
the
state
and
they
seem
to
be
charged
with
more
serious
offenses,
we're
more
likely
to
see
youth
who
are
charged
with
violent
offenses
who
are
charged
with
gun
crimes.
That's
certainly
the
case,
then.
I
saw
back
in
my
time,
Senator
Carroll
a
long
time
ago
was
County
attorney.
We
saw
mostly
truance
and
vandals
and,
and
that
sort
of
thing
we're
seeing
a
different
kind
of
charge.
D
Today,
we're
also
seeing
a
lot
more
kids
that
have
serious
mental
health
issues
and,
of
course,
that's
very
challenging
for
our
staff,
so
the
demands
on
our
facilities
are
increasing
and
we
expect
that's
going
to
continue.
Unfortunately,
we've
not
been
able
to
match
that
with
increased
Staffing
turnover
is,
is
an
ongoing
and
difficult
problem
in
all
of
these
facilities
and
and
in
all
juvenile
facilities.
D
in
FY
22,
we
hired
205
and
we
lost
236..
We
have
relatively
robust
Staffing
and
only
two
of
our
facilities,
the
easternmost
facilities,
buoyed
in
brethrit
and,
frankly,
we
struggle
everywhere
else
in
this
market.
We're
particularly
challenged
to
staff
Campbell
County,
which
is
on
limited
operation
because
of
our
inability
to
staff
it
and
in
Jefferson
County.
That's
not
unlike
our
Corrections
experience,
where
we
have
a
heck
of
a
hard
time,
hiring
correctional
officers
in
Oldham
County
as
I'm
sure
all
of
you
know.
So
why
is
that
the
case?
D
Well,
first,
these
are
incredibly
difficult
and
even
dangerous
jobs.
We
run
a
24
7
365
day
a
year
operation.
So
if
you
take
one
of
these
jobs,
you're
away
from
your
family
on
a
lot
of
days
when
you
really
don't
want
to
be
and
frankly,
the
compensation
is
simply
inadequate
in
this
unusually
difficult
labor
market.
That's
not
just
true
of
us,
it's
true
of
a
lot
of
employers,
but
it
certainly
shows
up
in
these
facilities
in
a
very
difficult
way.
D
D
D
So
turning
to
the
Jefferson
County
facility,
the
department
began
took
over
the
operation
of
the
detention
function
in
Jefferson
County
from
the
Louisville
Metro
Government
in
January
of
2020..
The
building
that
we're
using
was
not
built
to
be
a
Detention
Facility.
It
was
built
as
a
Youth
Development
Center,
and
that
has
consequences
because
it
doesn't
have
all
of
the
security
features
of
a
design.
D
D
As
we
came
out
of
covid.
Those
numbers
have
increased
to
where
now
we're.
Until
we've
made
some
moves
recently
to
depopulate
the
facility,
we
were
probably
keeping
in
the
mid-20s.
Now
there
are
more
youth
than
that
detained
from
Jefferson
County.
There
are
probably
any
given
day-
maybe
50
Jefferson
County,
Youth
and
detention,
but
a
lot
of
them
because
of
our
staffing
in
Jefferson
County
are
sent
to
other
facilities,
so
our
staffing
is
simply
not
kept
up
with
the
demand.
D
D
The
we
had
this
fire
incident,
which
occurred
in
August
I'm,
going
to
tell
you
what
I
know
about
that.
I
think
you'll
be
interested
in
knowing
what
I
know
about
it.
But
first
I
want
to
say
that
incident
is
still
under
investigation.
We
have
an
agency
in
our
cabinet
called
the
internal
investigations
Branch.
It's
a
group
of
I
think
six
or
seven
former
law
enforcement
officers
who
investigate
these
sort
of
incidents
for
us
they're,
not
part
of
the
Department
of
Juvenile
Justice
they're
independent
from
the
Department,
so
there's
no
bias
on
their
part.
D
I
say
that
I
want
you
to
know
that
investigation
is
still
ongoing
and
that's
important,
because
I'm
going
to
tell
you
what
we
know
today,
but
I've
learned
not
through
this
job,
but
through
many
decades
of
doing
these
jobs.
I
know
the
lawyers
on
the
panel
will
appreciate
this
and
the
law
enforcement
people.
When
you
have
an
incident
like
this
oftentimes,
the
first
reports
you
get
are
simply
inaccurate
and
you
have
conflicting
reports
and
you
have
to
just
dig
into
it
before
you
can
put
all
the
facts
together.
D
We
haven't
completed
that
process,
so
I'm
going
to
be
as
honest
with
you
as
I
can,
but
we
may
find
out
some
things
later
that
we
don't
know
today
and
we
may
find
out
some
things
that
we
think
are
true
today.
Maybe
is
not
true,
so
I
just
hope.
If
I
tell
you
something
that
turns
out
to
be
wrong,
it's
not
intentionally
and
I
hope.
You'll
you'll
grant
me
that
Grace.
If
that
happens,
we
had
a
female
youth
who
was
ordered
detained
by
deaf
Jefferson
County
district
judge
in
August.
D
This
was
a
time
again
we
were
extremely
short,
staffed.
I.
Think
for
the
most
part
we
would
have
had
three
or
four
staff
members
in
our
facility
at
any.
Given
time
that
could
have
gone
up,
a
little
could
have
gone
down
a
little
if
somebody
had
to
go
out
and
get
food,
because
the
cook
didn't
show
up
that
day
or
that
sort
of
somebody
called
in
at
the
last
minute.
So
we're
short,
staffed
and
and
I
do
want
to
say
kudos
to
the
central
office
staff
in
the
regional
staff.
D
D
So
they're
checking
in
this
young
female
and
it's
not
entirely
clear
to
me
how
it
happened,
but
she
managed
to
smuggle
and
Contraband
during
the
intake
process,
which
included
a
cigarette
lighter
and
a
phone
again,
I'm,
not
sure
how
she
accomplished
this,
but
I
am
sure
that
it
never
should
have
happened
and
I
offered
no
excuse
for
that,
and
ultimately
I'm
responsible
for
that.
That
was
a
failure
on
our
part
that
should
not
have
happened,
and
that
wasn't
the
last
one.
D
Unfortunately,
on
August
23rd,
it
appears
that
this
young
lady
passed
the
cigarette
lighter
to
a
male
juvenile
who
used
it
to
set
a
small
fire
in
the
day
room
where
they
congregate.
When
they're
out
of
their
their
rooms
that
are
locked,
he
used
a
t-shirt
his
best.
It
appears
from
the
videotape
to
set
a
small
fire
on
top
of
the
table.
D
It
obviously
shouldn't
have
happened,
but
the
fire
didn't
do
any
damage
didn't
amount
to
a
whole
lot.
Our
staff
came
in
after
the
fire
was
extinguished
and
there
was
no
significant
damage,
but
unfortunately,
and
inexcusably
that
igniter
that
cigarette
lighter
was
not
recovered.
After
this
August
23rd
fire,
it
should
have
been
recovered.
We
should
have
turned
that
place
upside
down,
Seven
Ways
to
Sunday
until
it
was
recovered,
but
we
did
not
and
we're
still
trying
to
determine
exactly
how
that
happened.
D
So
on
August
27th,
four
days
later,
this
same
lighter
was
used
to
start
another
fire
in
a
trash
barrel.
In
the
day
room,
the
fire
department
was
called.
Ultimately,
the
police
department
was
called
I.
Don't
think
this
was
a
roaring
Blaze,
but
obviously
anytime
you
have
a
fire
in
one
of
these
facilities.
It
is
a
serious,
serious
problem
during
the
confusion
of
this
one
of
the
youth
who
was
retained
there,
a
male
who
had
been
detained
for
a
misdemeanor
assault
escape
from
the
facility.
Again
that
should
not
have
happened.
D
As
I
said,
there
were
a
series
of
incidents
that
we're
trying
to
understand
exactly
how
it
happened,
but
we
know
it
shouldn't
have
happened.
So
this
is
what
we
believe
are
the
essential
facts,
but,
as
I
said,
the
matter
is
still
under
investigation
and
we'll
know
more
when
the
investigation
is
complete.
D
I
do
want
to
briefly
address
steps
that
we're
taking
to
try
to
address
these
problems,
some
of
which
are
particular
to
Louisville
and
some
of
which
are
are
more
general
for
the
problems
across
the
state.
The
Staffing
crisis
that
we
have,
in
my
estimation,
is
the
most
critical
problem.
We
have
it's
not
the
only
problem,
but
the
Staffing
crisis
makes
all
our
other
problems
worse.
So
what
are
we
doing
to
try
to
address
that?
Well,
we
currently
have
about
175
vacancies
in
the
in
in
this
area.
D
We
have
little
hope
of
filling
very
many
of
those
under
the
current
circumstances,
so
we're
going
to
cannibalize
a
number
of
these
vacancies
to
put
that
money
to
work.
That's
not
currently
working
for
us,
because
we
can't
fill
the
positions
and
we're
going
to
put
that
money
to
work
in
compensation
enhancements
for
existing
and
hopefully
for
new
employees.
D
We've
already
increased
the
shift
premiums
in
in
these
facilities,
where
we
have
I
think
in
all
our
detention
facilities
from
65
cents,
an
hour
to
213
an
hour
for
second
shift
and
weekend
and
holidays
and
a
dollar
thirteen
an
hour
for
third
shift.
We've
instituted
locality
premiums
for
the
six
locations
where
we
struggle
to
attract
adequate
Staffing,
and
that
would
be
a
dare
Campbell
Fayette,
Jefferson,
McCracken
and
Warren.
D
That
locality
premium
will
amount
to
264
an
hour
and
we
are
increasing
the
base
wage
for
youth
workers
and
youth
worker
supervisors
in
these
difficult
labor
markets
in
our
detention
facilities.
These
six
markets
to
the
midpoint,
which
is
I,
understand
the
Personnel
rules
and
I'm,
certainly
I,
probably
don't
understand
them
as
well
as
I
should,
but
I
think
that's
about.
All
you
can
do
is
go
to
the
midpoint.
D
So
when
we're
finished
with
this
process,
which
will
be,
we
started
this
process
some
time
ago
and
and
when
we're
all
finished
in
a
couple
of
weeks
where
we
will
stand
on
compensation.
Is
this
for
youth
worker
ones,
which
is
a
new
higher
probationary?
Employee
they'll
make
21.45
an
hour
now
I'm
talking
about
in
these
six
markets,
where
we
we
are
applying
these
locality
premiums.
D
This
includes
locality
for
youth
worker
2,
which
is
an
employee
who's,
come
off
of
probation,
it's
24.37
an
hour
for
youth
worker
3,
which
is
somebody
that's
received,
a
promotion,
it's
26.54
for
a
supervisor,
it's
28.93
and
in
addition
to
that,
they
have
the
shift
premium
opportunities.
So
we're
going
to
use
funding
from
approximately
65
of
our
vacancies
to
to
to
do
that.
Nobody
likes
to
use
up
vacancies,
but
we've
deemed
this
to
be
necessary.
D
There's
got
to
be
increased,
training
and
accountability,
and
all
I
can
say
about
that
is
that
we
already
do
a
lot
of
training
and
we're
going
to
do
more.
We
will
use
our
disciplinary
process
to
ensure
that
staff
failures
are
addressed,
while
doing
so
we're
going
to
fully
review
the
disciplinary
process
to
make
sure
that
it
is
adequate
and
to
make
sure
that
our
people
are
using
it
properly
and
as
intended.
D
D
I
would
love
to
know
the
level
at
which
we
have
to
compensate
people
that
will
allow
us
to
hire
an
adequate
staff,
but
I
do
not
know
where
that
is,
and
if,
if
anybody
has
ideas
on
that,
we're,
certainly
not
the
repository
of
all
wisdom,
we
would
we
would
love
to
to
get
anyone's
thoughts
on
on
where
that
magic
number
is
and
I
would
say,
however,
that
this
is
not.
This
effort
is
not
new.
This
is
the
third
effort
in
the
last
year
to
address
Staffing
and
compensation
issues.
D
Then,
when
the
general
assembly
enacted
the
budget
that
we're
operating
under
now,
you
graciously
increased
compensation
for
All
State
Workers,
including
these
by
another
eight
percent
and
I,
say
on
behalf
of
all
of
us
that
we
appreciate
that
very
genuinely.
So.
This
is
the
third
effort
in
the
last
year
to
increase
compensation
for
our
youth
workers.
I
hope
that
it
will
open
the
spigot
and
allow
us
to
hire
more
people
in
terms
of
Jefferson
County,
in
particular
as
a
consequence
of
the
ongoing
Staffing
problem
and
some
of
these
issues
that
we've
discussed.
D
We
are
significantly
reducing
the
population
and
have
already
done
so
that
we
are
detaining
in
that
facility.
We
essentially
are
going
to
use
it
as
a
holdover,
which
means
when
a
young
person
in
Jefferson
County
is
detained
oftentimes
in
the
middle
of
the
night,
oftentimes
on
weekends,
they'll
be
taken
to
that
facility
and
they'll
be
held
only
until
their
detention
hearing,
which
is
usually
within
48
hours.
If
the
court
releases
them
they're
released.
If
the
court
orders
them
further
detained,
they'll
be
taken
to
a
Dare
County.
D
So
to
put
it
another
way-
and
this
is
not
ideal,
but
it
is
appropriate
under
the
circumstances
we're
going
to
tailor
the
population
in
that
City
in
that
facility
to
meet
the
staff
that
we
have.
Ideally,
you
would
tailor
the
staff
to
meet
the
population
that
you
need
to
keep.
There
might
be
times
when
somebody
other
than
a
holdover
will
be
kept
in
the
facility,
but
that
will
be
the
exception
rather
than
the
rule
and
under
somewhat
extraordinary
circumstances.
D
We
are
procuring
body
scanners,
like
you,
see
in
jails
and
like
we
use
in
the
Department
of
Corrections,
so
that
we
check
in
a
youth
or
we
check
in
staff
they'll
go
through
a
body
scanner
and
we
think
that
will
make
it
much
harder
to
bring
Contraband
into
into
the
facility.
There
are
some
unique
aspects
of
searching
juveniles.
They
don't
go
through
the
same
intake
process
that
that
an
inmate
would
at
the
Kentucky
State
Reformatory,
and
we
think
these
body
scanners
will
make
both
the
youth
and
the
staffs
safer.
D
So
what
are
the
risk
of
this
program
that
we've
embarked
on?
Well,
one
risk
is
we
have
other
facility
issues
to
address.
I've
learned
and
I
might
should
have
known
this
sooner,
but
I
didn't
that
we
have
two
detention
facilities
that
were
built
with
drop
ceilings
with
false
ceilings.
D
While
we
repair
that
the
other
facility
that
has
that
issue,
we
will
be
proactively
replacing
that
ceiling
with
something
that's
more
secure,
but
again
when
we
get
to
that
it
will
take
some
beds
offline.
So
one
of
the
risks
we
have
I
mean
we
already
have
now
Campbell
Warren
and
Jefferson
on
limited
operation.
It
is
possible
at
some
point
that
we
could
simply
run
out
of
beds
if
this
could
become
an
arithmetic
problem
and
then
the
the
other
issue,
of
course,
is
with
this
additional
compensation.
D
There's
no
guarantee
that
that
will
turn
on
the
the
spigot
for
new
hires.
We
hope
it
will.
We
think,
we've
kind
of
emptied
the
bag
on
that,
but
there's
no
guarantees.
So
I'll
conclude
my
remarks
by
just
saying
that
our
staff
sometimes
makes
mistakes.
They
sometimes
make
big
mistakes,
not
nearly
as
many
as
their
boss.
They
none
of
them
make
as
many
mistakes
as
I
do
and
it's
the
mistakes
and
the
unfortunate
incidents
and
inexcusable
incidents
like
we're
talking
about
today
that
attract
public
attention
and
your
attention
and
that's
not
a
complaint.
That's
appropriate!
E
Thank
you,
Mr,
chairman
secretary
Harvey,
commissioner.
Thank
you
all
for
your
presentation.
E
I
do
understand
we're
all
human
I
do
understand,
sometimes
even
with
the
most
thorough
searches,
things
can
be
missed,
I
get
that,
but
I
want
to
talk
about
your
incentive
program
that
you're
looking
at
doing.
If,
if
I
understand
your
presentation,
you're
looking
at
doing
these
incentives
and
those
six
particular
areas
or
locations
that
are
struggling
to
either
maintain
or
hire
new
staff
that
excludes
those
in
the
East,
would
that
be
correct?.
D
E
So
they
would
get
the
shift
premiums,
but
not
the
locality,
pay
ing
from
the
East
and
seeing
how
that
we
are
able
to
fill
those
positions.
A
little
better,
I
understand
what
you're
trying
to
accomplish,
but
I
would
also
like
to
make
sure
that
we
try
to
keep
things
on
a
Level,
Playing
Field
in
all
those
positions.
If
you
have
a
a
position
within
your
cabinet
of
the
same
title,
the
same
amount
of
years
on,
then
you
should
essentially
be
making
about
the
same
pay
and
I.
E
E
We
know
so
you're
taking
some
of
that
Monies
to
help
fund
some
of
these
other
things,
but
there's
not
that
many
employees
in
the
East
that
it
would
make
that
that
big
of
a
difference
not
to
make
it
an
equal
for
all
of
your
employees-
and
you
know
I,
don't
know,
but
I
would
not
be
surprised
if
you
may
even
have
some
employees
at
the
breath
of
Cam
facility.
That
may
be
going
through
a
time
when
they
could
use
some
extra
money
right
now.
D
And
I
would
just
say,
representative
I
appreciate
those
sentiments.
I
think
you
you
make
some
good
points
and
I
think
and
I
hope.
You
know
that
we
love
our
employees
and
breath
it
and
Boyd
they're
in
many
ways,
keeping
us
afloat
now
so
I
think
we
can
take
a
look
at
that.
I
would
say,
particularly
with
regard
to
the
locality
premium.
I
mean
when
you
look
at
the
the
just
the
theory,
the
principle
of
a
locality
premium.
D
Is
you
use
that
to
attract
employees,
to
the
markets
where
you're,
having
trouble
and
and
also
in
many
cases,
I
think
that's
utilized
to
make
up
for
cost
of
living
differentials?
I
I
know
when
I
was
in
the
federal
government.
We,
you
know,
you
know
the
people
in
New,
York
or
San
Francisco
made
more
than
we
did
because
of
the
cost
of
living,
but
I
I
was
never
tempted
to
move
to
New,
York
or
San
Francisco
because
of
it
and.
E
I
completely
understand
that
wouldn't
disagree
with
that
at
all,
but
I
would
say
that
a
lot
of
people
may
not
realize,
but
it
costs
more
to
live
in
those
rural
areas
sometimes
than
it
does
the
urban
we
pay
more
for
groceries,
we
pay
more
for
energy.
Now
it
used
to
not
be
that
way
until
they
started
removing
our
coal,
but
that's
another
topic
for
another
group.
We
pay
more
for
our
gas
at
the
pumps
we
pay
more
for
home
home
insurance
for
auto
insurance.
E
Everything
we
purchase,
we
pay
higher
than
what
I
can
come
to
Lexington
and
get
it
and
I
know
this,
because
I
have
my
own
children
that
live
in
Central,
Kentucky
and
and
other
family
members
and
and
comparing
the
cost.
It's
costing
me
more
to
live
in
the
East
than
it
does
in
this
area.
Now
you're
in
a
more
competitive
job
market
here
and
in
that
sense,
I
I
agree
that
there's
there's
a
reason
for
it.
So.
D
E
D
B
Thank
you,
Mr
chairman
I,
wanted
to
I,
guess:
I
want
to
touch
base.
I
know
you're
you're,
faced
with
a
Monumental
task
and
I
appreciate
that
and
understand
what
you're
trying
to
accomplish,
but
it
seems
to
me
there's
basically
three
areas:
you're
challenged
with
and
I
would
I
would
say.
One
at
least
is
basically
widespread,
no
matter
what
sector
or
the
industry
profession
you're
in
it's
a
Workforce
issues.
We've
got
that's
across
the
board
teachers
Healthcare,
you
name
it.
We've
got
a
problem.
B
I
wish
I
hope
we
can
come
up
with
some
type
of
solution
to
go
down
that
path.
In
terms
of
finding
that
you
have
a
facility
issue,
what
I
can
understand
and
then
you
have
and
I
guess
to
a
certain
degree
of
judicial
issue
in
terms
of
releasing
these
kids
or
even
the
process.
In
terms
of
evaluating
you
mentioned
about
mental
health
that
obviously
I
knew
that
was
present,
but
that's
something
that
needs
to
be
really
peeled
back
in
terms
of
trying
to
find.
B
B
Is
that
the
only
solution
or
is
that?
Is
there
other
other
types
of
areas
you're
looking
at
and
what
I'm
trying
to
get
to
is
what
other
resources
are
you
tapping
into
for
my
best
practices
throughout
this
country
that
you
can
utilize
to
bridge
the
gap
to
what
you're
challenged
with
to
what
other
markets
have
gone
through
the
same
problem
or
going
through
the
problem
to
help
you
solve
the
problem?
The
issues
that
you're
faced
with.
D
I
mean
in
in
terms
of
attracting
an
adequate
staff.
We
we
primarily
have
looked
at
compensation
because
I
I
think
that's
the
primary
problem.
We're
not
exclusively
I
think
we're
always
looking
at
ways
that
we
can
utilize
creative
benefits
and
that
sort
of
thing
and
I
can
tell
you
and
I'll.
Ask
the
commissioner.
You
might
just
go
over
some
of
the
things
we've
done
in
the
last
year
to
try
to
recruit
staff.
C
Because
we
have,
we
have
problems
with
Staffing
is
not
just
youth
workers.
I
mean
obviously
that's
one
of
our
most
problematic
but
getting
Cooks.
We
have
some
places
where
we
have
three
cooks
that
we're
supposed
to
have.
We
have
one
when
she's
off
one
of
our
facilities
is
superintendent.
Does
the
cooking
anytime
that
she's
off?
So
you
know
it's
been
across
very
difficult
on
and
many
different
job
classifications,
so
we
started
social
media.
Since
I
came
in
last
year
we
started
Facebook
and
Twitter.
C
We
run
lots
of
come
work
for
us
and
we're
hiring
in
specific
positions.
We
hired
a
private
Ad
Agency
to
get
us
on,
indeed
with
those
annoying
pop-up
ads
that
you
see.
So
when
somebody
gets
on
there,
they
go
hey
come
work
for
us.
We've
done
radio
ads,
we've
had
I
think
over
25
job
fairs.
We
had
two
job
fairs
on
site,
one
at
Campbell
and
one
at
Jefferson
and
should
I
share
the
research.
D
Let's
just
tell
you
a
story,
because
it's
true
the
day
they
had
the
job
fair
at
Jeff
person
just
happened
to
be
a
day
that
I
was
visiting
that
facility
with
some
of
my
senior
staff
and
so
I
walked
in
and
they
had
cookies
and
balloons
and
pizza
and
I
thought
gosh.
You
didn't
have
to
do
this
for
me
and
they
didn't
do
it
for
me.
They
did
it
to,
for
they
were
having
an
open
house
for
job
Seekers
and
not
a
single
one
showed
up
so
that.
C
So
we
brought
people
from
our
HR
to
be
there
so
that
people
came,
we
could
walk
them
through
and
get
them
hired
that
day,
but
it
just
it
just
did
not
pan
out.
So
you
know
we
we
continually
look
for
places
and
you
know
colleges,
we've
worked
with
and
so
forth,
but
honestly,
so
far
it's
been
a
lot
of
effort
with
very
little
return
and.
D
B
C
It's
interesting
I'm,
a
member
of
a
group
called
the
correctional
Juvenile
Justice
administrators
and
it's
Commissioners
through
all
50
states
and
I
recently
went
to
the
National
summer
meeting
on
that-
and
this
is
this-
is
a
topic
for
everybody,
and
we,
you
know
it
was
like
more
workshops
were
done
on
the
staff
issue
than
anything
else.
So
we
have
shared
they've
shared
some
things
that
work
for
them.
We've
shared
some
things
that
work
for
us.
Some
of
them
have
been
able
to
do
things.
C
What
we've
not
been
able
to
just
because
of
state
government,
hiring
bonuses,
paying
people
who
refer
people
and
other
sorts
of
things
that
we
can
do,
but
I'll
give
you
an
example
in
Texas
they
they
have
quit.
They
only
run
the
post
disposition
facilities.
They
don't
do
what
we
do
with
detention
and
they
have
five
main
campuses.
C
They
shut
all
new
intakes
and
said
we're
not
taking
anybody,
because
we
don't
have
enough
staff
to
take
care
of
the
kids
we
have
and
they
were
giving
them
water
bottles
in
the
cells
because
they
didn't
have
bathrooms
to
use
for
that
purpose
because
they
don't
have
staff.
West
Virginia's
called
out
the
out
the
National
Guard
for
both
their
adult
and
juvenile
facilities.
It's
it's.
Somebody
asked
here
A
type
thing:
to
raise
your
hand
if
you're
having
Staffing
problems
and
everybody
in
the
room
does
it's
just
it's.
A
Thank
you
for
that.
We
have
a
lot
of
questions.
I've
got
a
number
of
them
I'm,
going
to
ask
a
few
of
them
right
now
and
then
we'll
go
to
other
people
and
I'll
come
back.
This
is
not
the
facility
that
the
Louisville
Metro
used
when
they
had
it
is
that
right,
correct
yep,
and
so
we
moved
it.
We
moved
to
a
facility
on
the
Fly
and
then
this
facility
right
now,
I
think
you've
told
me
before
commissioner
is
not
is
not
designed
for
this.
A
It's
not
up
to
the
task
is
that
right,
it
is
I.
Do
want
to
note
that
thank
your
secretary
for
for
bringing
up
those
two
incidents
that
arson
incident
and
the
Escape,
but
there's
a
bunch
more
I
want
to
go
through
a
number
of
them
just
to
make
sure
we
understand
the
gravity
of
the
situation.
This
is
not
a
one-off
on
July,
1st
and
I'm,
going
to
start
on
July
31st
a
lot
before
that
and
I'm
going
to
stop
on
September
4th.
There's
many
after
that,
as
well.
A
I
got
a
text
message
today
about
some
things:
I'll
talk
about
on
July
31st.
There
was
a
riot
kids
got
free
because
they
kicked
their
cell
doors,
open,
that's
going
to
the
facility
not
being
up
up
to
the
task
and
they
took
over
the
unit.
The
kids
did.
The
police
were
called
to
the
incident.
The
police
were
then
told
they
can
no
longer
bring
their
weapons
and
I
think
that's
resolving
our
commissioner.
We've
we've
allowed
Lyndon
police
to
respond
in
the
way
that
they
need
to
respond,
including
with
their
weapons.
Is
that
right.
C
Yes,
we've
talked
our
offensive,
Council
and
discussed
coming
up
to
discuss
and
clear
up
that
with
them,
because
generally
I
think
our
staff
got
confused
when,
when
law
enforcement
comes
to
interview
a
kid
like
an
investigation,
they
have
to
put
their
guns
up,
but
obviously,
if
they're
coming
in
on
a
we've
called
them
for
safety
issue,
it's
a
whole
different
thing.
So.
A
Okay,
so
that
was
on
July
31st
on
August,
the
14th
youth
jumped
a
staff
member.
The
staff
member
was
out
on
medical
leave
for
a
number
of
times
a
crack
ribbed,
so
that
was
that
just
was
sustained
by
being
jumped
not
enough
staff
on
the
on
site.
At
the
time
they're
over
20
youth
there,
which
violates
the
rule
of
16
being
the
old
cap
on
August
17th,
a
brawl
took
place
between
14
youths.
The
youth
were
all
over
the
building
fighting
each
other.
A
This
is
coming
from
one
of
your
employees,
and
this
is
their
language
on
August
22nd
there
was
another
Riot,
the
youth
were
refusing
to
return
to
their
unit.
They
were
running
all
over
the
building,
trying
to
open
exit
doors
and
Staff
office
stores.
Staff
member
was
injured
during
this
incident
and
went
on
light
duty.
Pull
police
were
not
called
for
this
incident.
This
is
what
employee
says
due
to
being
told
by
higher-ups
outside
the
building,
not
to
call
the
police
on
August
23rd.
That's
the
date
of
the
incident
that
you
mentioned
there
were.
A
There
were
multiple
incidents
on
that
day:
a
male
youth
retrieved,
the
lighter
from
the
female,
as
you
suggested,
and
and
started
at
arson.
That
small
of
the
I
think
you
said
was
a
t-shirt
on
the
on
the
table
that
didn't
cause
much
problem
later
on
that
day,
26
youth
in
the
building,
with
only
three
staff
on
duty,
two
of
which
were
female
and
one
male
youth
refused
to
go
back
into
a
cell.
He
took
keys
from
one
of
the
staff
members
and
opened
two
cell
doors.
A
The
youth
jumped
another
youth
staff,
Youth
and
staff
were
unable
to
properly
manage
the
situation.
Locks
had
to
be
changed
only
then
to
resolve,
or
at
least
to
address
that
situation.
A
few
days
later,
on,
August
26
staff
was
attacked
in
the
back
of
her
head
by
that
Theme
by
that
female
who
was
who
was
charged
with
arson
or
being
held
for
arson
the
next
day,
August
27th,
multiple
fires
were
set
by
that
same
female
with
her
lighter
that
was
still
not
retrieved.
A
A
The
right
situation
on
another
unit
during
the
fire,
the
female
that
set
the
fire,
attacked
the
responding
the
the
firemen,
and
so
it's
such
now
that
I'm
not
sure
that
we
have
an
understanding
of
whether
St
Matthews
London
Fire
will
respond
to
a
fire
in
the
facility
because
they're
worried
about
their
own
safety,
because
we
can't
keep
we
can't.
We
can't
ensure
that
people
are
are
not
running
wild
and
causing
riots
at
the
at
the
time.
A
On
September,
the
first
four
use
got
into
a
fight
staff
member
was
injured
and
was
on
light
duty
for
a
couple
I
think
a
couple
weeks
on
September
4th
and
September
5th,
there
were
only
two
staff
members
in
the
building
to
watch
over
22
youths.
I
think
the
rule
is
eight
youth
to
one
staff
member.
Is
that
correct.
A
For
daytime
okay,
so
that
was
obviously
not
there.
There
are
a
number
more
I
got
a
text
message
today
saying
that
there
was
supposed
to
be
a
change
as
of
October
the
3rd.
That
said
that
this
facility
would
only
have
eight
to
ten
kids
and
that's
violated
almost
every
day
said
that
her
or
this
person's
reports
are
doctored.
When
goes
back
and
looks
at
them,
they've
been
changed,
I,
don't
know
who
they've
been
changed
by,
but
they've
been
changed,
and
so
we're
going
to
be
investigating
more
we're.
A
Glad
we're
having
here
today
wanted
a
commitment
that
you'll
work
with
our
staff
to
to
when
we
go
to.
We
would
like
to
go
to
the
facility
and
and
look
at
some
documents
as
well.
That's
not
that's
not
a
problem.
Is
it
I.
D
A
Pull
from
the
same
side
of
the
Rope
there,
so
there's
there's
a
significant
issues.
It's
not
just
that
one
issue
that
you
that
you
referred
to,
or
the
two
issues
referred
to
on
August
23rd
and
they're
ongoing
another
problem
for
me:
I
want
to
know
what
the
law
is
on.
This
is
we're
step,
we're
housing,
young
men
with
young
women
and
we're
talking
about
13
14,
15,
16
and
17
year
olds.
A
I
have
reports
from
employees
that
these
kids
are
having
sex
with
one
another
they're
watching
pretty
pretty
grotesque
pornography
that
the
staff
members
are
aware
of.
Is
it
appropriate
to
to
house
young
men
with
young
women.
C
We
DJJ
has
housed
in
detention
now
post
disposition,
the
girls
go
to
Moorhead,
Treatment,
Center
so
and
a
day
or
sometimes
so.
For
that
type
thing
for
detention.
This
is
nothing
new.
As
long
as
I
know,
we
have
had
co-ed
and
one
of
the
reasons
for
that
I
mean
personally.
I
would
like
to
be
able
to
have
them
separated.
Just
like
I
would
like
to
have
the
11
year
old
truant,
not
with
the
17
year
old,
six
foot,
eight
sex
offender,
kid
that'd
be
nice
to
separate
our
facilities
are
so
small.
C
You
can't
really
run
parallel
programs,
so
you
know
everybody
is
single
housed,
but
the
kids
do
they
go
to
school
together,
they're
in
the
common
area.
They
go
to
the
gym
together
and
there
really
just
isn't
the
ability
to
separate
them.
You
even
get
into
the
issue
of.
If
you
had
one
paw-
and
you
said,
that's
just
girls
and
you
may
know
from
being
a
prosecutor,
you
might
have
two
girls
brought
in
on
a
murder,
and
the
prosecutor
says
they
are
not
to
be
together
because
they
I
don't
want
them
talking
about
their
story.
C
So
you
have
to
separate
those
you
have.
Two
girls
have
been
shooting
at
each
other
from
rival
gangs.
They
can't
go
in
the
same
unit
and
we
we
juggle
our
kids
all
the
time
with
trying
to
keep
gangs
and
so
forth,
separated
now
what's
keeps
it
safe
and
what
happened
recently
were.
There
is
exceedingly
exceedingly
rare.
We
meet
all
the
Priya
guidelines
and
standards,
but
it
does
someone
go
back
to
Staffing
because,
unlike
an
adult
jail,
you
wouldn't
have
like
a
big
area,
and
you
just
put
people
out
in
there
they're
supposed
to
be.
C
A
C
The
prison,
rape,
elimination
act
and
we
American
Correctional
Association.
You
know,
audits,
all
our
programs
Priya,
and
you
know
this
is
something
that's
done.
Across
the
Nation
and
we
just
don't
have
the
ability
I'd
like
to
but
I,
don't
know
how
we
could
accomplish
it.
A
C
I,
don't
know
which
each
from
the
you
know
each
of
the
wines
like
I
said
we
have
to
separate
based
on
so
many
different
things
for
kids
and
it's
constant,
sometimes
juggling
them.
But
we
don't
look
at
like,
for
example,
that
same
you
might
have
a
17
year
old,
with
rape
who
raped
a
boy
and
he's
in
with
a
whole
unit
of
of
males.
So
you
know
we
could
separate
based
on
those
the.
D
Okay,
okay
and
I
would
if
I
could
Mr
chairman
I
mean
certainly
I
I,
don't
you
know
I,
don't
think
anybody's
here
to
say
in
fact,
I
think
I've
been
pretty
forthcoming
and
saying
we
understand.
We
have
significant
issues.
These
are
long-standing
issues
there.
There
was
an
audit
by
an
outside
group
done
of
DJJ
facilities
in
2017.,
and
it
reported
that
we're
very
concerned
about
Staffing
in
these
in
these
facilities.
So
this
is
not
new.
D
The
and
again
we
make
mistakes
from
time
to
time,
but
I
think
the
the
most
intractable
core
problem
is
adequate.
Staffing
now
I'll
say
one
other
thing
and
I
don't
want
to
sound
too
harsh
here,
but
we're
not
keeping
kids
in
these
facilities
because
they
missed
the
day
of
Sunday
school,
we're
keeping
some
some
kids
in
these
facilities.
That
are
some
pretty
tough
characters
and
it
is
unfortunate,
but
sometimes
these
kids
are
going
to
assault
staff.
Sometimes
they're.
These
kids
are
going
to
assault
each
other
and
we
don't
like
nobody
likes
that.
D
But
nobody
should
be
surprised
by
that
either.
If
we
could
staff
these
facilities
appropriately,
we
would
be
able
to
prevent
more
of
those
incidents
and
we
would
be
able
to
intervene
faster
and
better,
but
I
agree
with
you.
These
are
every
one
of
these
incidences
is
a
problem.
I
can't
give
you
all
the
details
on
on
everything.
That's
happened,
but
we
want
to
get
to
a
point
where
we
can.
D
A
A
A
young
lady,
14,
15
years
old,
is,
is
housed
in
the
same
location
as
a
16
17
year
old
male,
who
might
have
been
charged
with
heinous
things,
including
rape,
I.
Don't
know
it
seems
like
you
say:
the
law
allows
that
it
ought
not.
Okay,
it
seems
that
that
has
to
change
immediately.
It
seems
to
me
we've
recognized
that
in
the
in
the
corrections
industry
from
time,
immemoral
and
I
would
ask
you
to
consider
that
immediately.
D
D
Let's
say
we
have
a
Jefferson
County
girl
who
is
put
into
tension
or
half
a
dozen
of
them
in
Jefferson
County,
and
we
say
because
you're,
a
girl,
we're
going
to
send
you
to
a
Dare,
County
or
Warren
County
or
to
Boyd
County
on
the
basis
of
your
gender,
and
that
means
that
your
family,
who
may
not
be
a
family
of
means,
will
never
get
to
come
see.
You
you'll
have
no
face-to-face
visit
with
your
family,
and
we
did
that
to
you
because
of
your
gender.
That
might
be
a
problem
too
setting.
D
D
A
F
Thank
you,
Mr,
chairman
and
secretary.
It's
good
to
see
you,
sir
sorry,
sir.
Thank
you
for
being
here
over
the
years.
The
the
level
of
offense
is
that
leads
to
detention,
his
increase,
where
there's
really
not
much
of
a
stomach
to
detain
a
juvenile
these
days,
they're
they're
released
pretty
quickly
so,
as
you
just
said,
that
kind
of
leaves
the
more
hardcore
kids
that
that
are
being
detained
with.
F
That
being
said,
is
it
time
that
we
reassess
the
model
that
that
we
use
and
the
rules
that
we
use
to
to
detain
these
kids
as
far
as
facilities
and
and
keeping
in
mind
and
I
want
to
stress
this,
because
I
know
exactly
how
this
could
be
twisted
around
by
the
media.
So
I
want
to
be
very
careful
with
my
words,
I'm,
not
saying
putting
an
eight-year-old
kid
into
an
adult
prison
or
jail
I'm,
not
saying
that
at
all
what
I
am
saying,
because
we
are
detaining
these
more
hardcore,
kids
that
are
often
violent.
F
Is
that
something
that
would
be
a
possibility
that
would
economically
be
more
feasibility
safety,
which
would
be
the
priority?
You
would
have
probably
a
higher
trained
individual
caring
for
those
more
resources
and
I
understand
the
separation
with
Department
of
Corrections
and
DJJ,
but
because
these
are
primarily
violent,
serious
offenders.
Do
we
need
to
reassess
the
way
we
house
them.
D
D
There
are
a
couple
of
things
that
come
to
my
mind,
I
mean,
first
of
all,
quite
frankly,
we
can't
hire
enough
correctional
officers
to
run
the
Adult
Correctional
Facilities
either
so
I
don't
know
who
we
would
have
I
mean
and
I
know
where
your
heart
is.
You
and
I
go
back.
I
know
your
heart's
in
the
right
place,
so
I
don't
misinterpret
what
you're
saying
at
all,
but
we
you
know
we
wherever
they
are.
We
got
to
have
people
to
take
care
of
them
and.
D
I
would
just
say
this
that
I
think
part
at
least
a
some
part
of
this
is
actually
through
the
success
of
Senate
Bill
200,
that
that
the
general
assembly
passed
what
eight
or
ten
years
ago
and
is
a
lot
of
the
the
youths
who
were
commit
charged
with
committing
lower
level.
Offenses
are
now
diverted
from
Court
they're
never
detained,
but
the
cohort
that
is
left
is
naturally
more
more
serious.
Offenders.
F
Which
is
which
is
exactly
my
point,
which
puts
more
the
staff
at
risk
to
a
far
greater
level
and
and
I.
You
know
as
we
go
through
all
of
this
Criminal
Justice
Reform
and
and
it's
not
that
I'm
opposed
to
it
for
lower
level,
but
as
we
get
softer
on
lower
level
and
more
opportunities.
Second,
third,
fourth
and
fifth
Chances
with
those
that
have
been
through.
F
All
of
that,
we
need
to
be
harshening
the
levels,
the
penalties
and
and
everything
that
goes
along
with
that
on
on
that
far
and
for
those
more
severe
offenders
that
are
repeat,
offenders
and
those
penalties
need
to
be
harsher
and
so
I
I
think
there's
a
rebalancing
of
the
way.
We
do
things
that
we
need
to
look
at
simply
because
of
of
where
the
system
has
evolved
and
I.
Think
that
includes
juveniles,
in
that
we
just
don't
have
the
stomach
to
detain
juveniles
anymore,
and
you
can
argue
both
sides
of
that
right
or
wrong.
F
Everybody's
goal
is
for
them
to
offend
once
and
it
never
happened
again,
but
that's
not
the
reality
at
all.
Otherwise,
our
prisons
wouldn't
be
full,
but
I.
Think
it's
something
to
think
about
are:
are
there
other
states
that
use
those
types
of
Partnerships
with
with
local
jails
or
in
in
housing,
in
different
facilities
or
different
areas,
but
for
the
more
hardcore
where
they
can
share
Services
support
services?
That
type
of
thing.
C
I
haven't
seen
many
where
they're
actually
sharing
resources.
There
are
other
states
that
do
different
things
with
kids
Kentucky's,
one
of
only
eight
states
that
doesn't
have
anybody
under
18
in
an
adult
jail
or
prison,
which
is
where
actually
on
the
national
standards
and
so
forth,
have
gone
to
because
of
the
fact
that
when
they
do
go
to
adult
facilities,
they
are
often
the
victims
of
rape
and
assault
and
the
much
poorer
outcomes
they've
showed
that
youth
charged
as
adults
are
34
percent,
more
likely
to
be
a
serious,
violent
offender.
C
So
you
have
to
you
know
it's
always.
A
balancing
act
of
I
know
exactly
what
you're
talking
about,
but
the
point
is
that
we
are
housing
and
keeping
a
lot
of
kids
that
are
doing
have
done
some
fairly
serious
things.
I
do
want
to
tell
where
you
spend
all
our
time
talking
about
detention,
but
we
do
operate
post-dispositional
facility
too.
Actually
we
have
28
facilities
and
Counting
the
kids
in
our
facilities
and
the
youth
that
we
touch
in
the
community,
we're
working
with
1400
kids
a
day.
So
you
know
you're.
C
Looking
at
a
lot
of
our
facilities,
our
post
disposition
are
considered
a
model
in
the
nation.
We
just
had
a
group
from
Puerto
Rico
come
to
to
see
them.
We've
got
New,
York
and
Chicago
coming
down
to
look
at
what
we're
doing
so.
I
would
really
invite
some
of
you
all
to
come
to
our
some
of
the
ones
in
the
East
here
again,
Lake,
Cumberland
and
woods.
Bend
are
two
of
our
Premier
programs
and
what
they
do
with
kids,
including
the
kids
charged
as
adult,
is
amazing.
C
We
actually
have
very
few
kids
who
actually
go
on
to
to
corrections,
I
think
out
of
Lake
cumber.
Last
year
they
had
four
kids
there
who
went
before
the
parole
board
and
three
of
them
were
paroled
and
part
of
that
was
because
those
facilities
are
very
treatment,
oriented,
they're,
small.
We
have
staff
there
or
they're
well
and
when
I
came
on
last
year,
those
were
suffering
too.
We
had
vacancies
in
our
group
homes.
We
had
vacancies
across
the
board
and
I'm
happy
to
say
with
the
other
than
one
YDC.
C
All
of
them
now
are
adequately
staffed,
but
we're
able
to
do
things
with
our
treatment,
programming
and
so
forth
with
their
vocational
program.
We
have
some,
you
know,
kids,
who
we
had
our
you
know:
high
school
diploma,
all
the
kids
came
for
our
graduation
ceremony,
so
I
do
want
to
Echo
the
secretary.
We
have
some
folks
doing
great
things,
and
this
has
been
a
very
difficult
year.
I
just
have
to
I
have
to
throw
this
out
here.
C
I
came
in
just
a
little
over
a
year
ago
and
covid
was
raging,
everybody
was
still
in
mask
and
we
had
through
our
facilities,
sometimes
Rampage
and
one
of
our
facilities.
We
had
14
kids
in
the
gym,
spread
out
trying
to
keep
them
separate.
Our
staff
is
there
in
full
PPE
trying
to
take
care
of
these
kids
and
these
facilities
that
not
only
are
dangerous
and
so
forth,
but
also
are
sick
and
dealing
with
those.
C
So
we've
dealt
with
that
and
then
in
in
December
I'm,
watching
the
news
and
find
out
that
a
tornado
hit
Mayfield
and
we
have
a
facility
there
and
it
hit
our
facility
and
thankfully
none
of
our
kids
and
staff.
But
within
24
hours
we
had
to
move
all
the
kids
out
of
their
disperse
them
all
to
our
other
facilities
and
then
to
get
the
other
side
of
the
state
in
the
East.
C
We
have
two
programs
there
in
breathit,
County
side
by
side,
our
detention
center
and
one
of
our
group
homes
and
day
treatment,
center
and
I
got
a
call
late.
One
night
saying
you
need
to
be
ready
to
evacuate
all
of
them
and
we
had
staff
that
lost
their
entire
everything.
One
guy
had
a
trailer
that
the
whole
trailer
and
they're
still
coming
in
to
work
and
dealing
with
those
kids
same
thing
at
Mayfield,
one
of
the
staff
that
was
there
that
night
taking
care
of
the
kids
keeping
them
calm
lost
all
her
own
home.
C
So
a
lot
of
our
people
are
heroes
and
I
just
really
want
to
make
sure
that
they
get
the
recognition
when
something's
bad.
We
want
to
take
care
of
it
and
hold
those
people
accountable,
but
too
often
I
feel,
like
some
of
our
people
go
unrecognized
for
going
in
day
in
day
out
and
dealing
with
this
very
difficult
job
and
environment
that
they're
in.
A
Thank
you
for
that.
Commission
there's!
No
doubt
about
that,
and
that's
one
of
the
reasons
that
we
want
to
look
into.
This
is
because
we've
got
a
number
of
Staff,
especially
in
Linden
who've,
had
to
take
off
because
they've
been
harmed
by
by
kids.
So
it's
not
just
the
safety
of
the
kids
in
the
community.
It's
also
of
those
tremendous
the
staff
that
were
here
and
I
would
note.
Chairman,
Carol
Kevin
bratcher
has
a
bill
to
revise
some
of
Senate
Bill
200
is
a
bipartisan
bill.
A
It
actually
had
law
enforcement
with
representative
bratcher
and
the
Metro
Greg
Fisher's
office
at
the
table
to
pass
that
it
passed
the
house
last
time.
Hopefully
we
can
get
it
through
the
rest
of
the
rest
of
the
way.
If
amendments
need
to
be
made,
we
can
look
into
that
as
well.
Senator
Thomas.
G
To
see
you
again
at
commissioner
Reed,
it's
always
nice
to
see.
You
I
had
a
different
reason
for
being
here
today
and
I'm
glad
that
secretary
Harvey
made
the
point
just
a
short
time
ago
that
we
have
to
understand
that
the
clientele
he's
dealing
with
and
that
and
that
that
his
clientele
are
not
church
choir
members.
Because
that's
why
that's
absolutely
correct.
G
You
have
a
very
tough
job,
but
what
I
want
to
talk
about
today,
secretary
Harvey,
commissioner
Reeves,
particularly
since
both
of
you
are
from
Lexington
these
days
when
you
wake
up
and
hear
the
Morning
News
every
day,
the
first
two
or
three
stories
about
some
shooting
or
someone
getting
getting
a
harmed
or
even
a
murder,
and
it's
on
everybody's
minds
and
Lexington
about
the
the
crime
rate
and
everywhere
I
go
people
want
to
talk
about
it.
G
Okay,
what
I
really
want
to
know
from
both
of
you
I
do
want
to
hear
from
both
of
you.
You
know
it's
not
the
work.
You
do
because
you're
just
just
housing,
a
situation,
you're
you're,
housing,
teenagers
and
children
who
our
manifestations
of
what
the
what
the
problems
are.
G
You
know
what
what
the
symptoms
are
in
our
society,
that
that
lead
to
them
being
arrested,
but
but
you
have
them
in
your
facility
and
I'm
sure,
there's
some
counseling
that
takes
place
some
some
some
some
some
some
back
and
forth
with
your
correctional
officers
as
to
to
you
know
why
they
they're
in
the
first
place
and
what
I
want
to
know
from
both
of
you,
because
we
have
to
get
a
handle
on
this
and
and
the
crime
issue
is
just
not
limited
to
Lexington
it's
in
other
major
cities
across
the
state
as
well.
G
What
I'm,
mostly
interested
in
because
again
this
is
my
responsibility
to
as
a
state
officials
how
to
address
this
and
resolve
this
or
limit
this.
So
what
I
really
want
to
know
from
both
of
you
and
commissioner
Harvey
I'll
I'll,
let
you
go
first
is
is
what
do
we
need
to
do
to
get
a
handle
on
our
crime
situation
in
Lexington
and
in
other
areas?
You
know
what
what
what?
What
are
some
of
the
root
causes
of
this?
G
That
we
need
to
address
and
and
and
and
and
and
hopefully
resolve
in
our
society
I
want
to
hear
from
you
first
and
then
you
Vicky
I
mean
commissioner
Reed
and.
D
G
D
D
I
mean
one
thing
is,
and
this
is
clear
to
me:
we
have
to
address
mental
illness
in
children
more
effectively
and
we
have
to
address
it
sooner
and
I'll.
Just
give
you
I'll,
try
not
to
filibuster
but
I'll.
Try
to
give
you
a
short
synopsis
of
a
real
case
that
we
deal.
G
D
D
So
what's
left
for
that
child,
a
Juvenile,
Detention
Facility,
where
our
people
making
17
bucks
an
hour
have
to
take
care
of
this
young
person
who
has
active,
ongoing,
serious
mental
illness.
Is
that
right
for
the
child?
Is
that
right
for
our
staff?
No,
so
that's
one
thing
that
that
we
need
to
to
look
at
Senator,
Thomas
and
then
I
think
we
just
need
to
intervene
in
general,
more
quickly,
I
when
I
was
U.S
attorney.
D
D
So
if
that's
what
the
gangs
are
doing,
we
need
to
be
working
on
those
kids
in
the
third
grade
in
a
way
that
we're
not.
Today,
we
need
more
resources
for
those
kids
and
in
those
communities,
and
we
need
to
the
the
way
to
improve.
The
best
way
to
improve
Juvenile
Justice
is
is
to
keep
them
out
of
the
system
the
first
time,
and
so
that's
where
we
ought
to
put
more
resources
and
that's
where
we'll
get
the
biggest
bang
for
our
buck.
C
Quickly,
the
gang
issue
has
become
huge,
Lexington
Louisville,
somewhat
Davis,
County
and-
and
we
are
seeing
those
issues
that
we
didn't
see
before
I'll,
give
you
an
example
of
the
Detention
Center
there
in
Lexington.
You
know
we
have
PODS
of
kids
and
one's
going
to
school,
one
way
and
one's
going
the
other
and
we
used
to
let
them
like
stay
on
one
side
of
the
hall
and
pass
each
other.
We
can't
do
that
anymore.
We
have
to
lock
all
the
kids
and
move
one
unit
at
a
time
or
they're
jumping
on
each
other.
C
So
you
know
the
gang
issue
has
been
huge
for
us
and
and
I
will
Echo.
We
need
to
look
at
a
lot
more
preventive
one
of
the
things
we
just
did
and
I
think
the
governor
announced
that
at
this
morning,
maybe
or
yesterday
morning
that
our
Title
II,
which
is
our
ojjdp
office
of
Juvenile
Justice,
and
don't
thank
you-
delinquency,
prevention
dollars
that
we
have
just
obtained
we're
putting
that
out
to
communities
for
one
of
the
things
is
the
youth
Advocate
Program.
C
If
you've
heard
of
that
which
assigns
used
directly
to
a
paid
person
who
works
within
15
to
20
hours
a
week
and
it's
a
whatever
it
takes
if
they
find
out
the
kids
stealing,
because
the
power
gets
cut
off
and
the
kids
stealing
so
that
they
can
keep
the
electricity
on,
you
know
they
work
with
maybe
helping
dad
get
a
job
and
so
that
the
family
stabilizes
they
work
with
the
school
system.
So
we've
had
that
going
in
Lexington
and
Louisville
and
very
effective.
C
It's
a
national,
evidence-based
model
and
we
just
got
the
funding
to
start
that
in
I,
believe
them
I,
hope,
I
have
the
County's
right,
Paducah,
Owensboro
and
Bowling
Green
I.
Believe
don't
hold
me
to
that.
But
with
some
of
those
so
I
think
many
programs
such
as
that
will
help,
but
it
some
of
them
you're
not
going
to
see
a
quick
turnaround
on
it.
G
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
Mr
Jefferson
asked
that
question
because
I
think
that's.
That
is
a
very
important
question
to
be
asked
and
addressed,
as
as
we
try
to
move
forward
and
try
to
get
a
handle
on
our
crime
problem
here
in
the
state
of
Kentucky.
H
Chairman,
thank
you
all
so
much
for
being
here,
I've
been
here
a
long
time,
28
years
and
in
79
days.
I
won't
be
here
anymore,
but
you
have
come
I
think
to
the
right
committee,
because
legislators
have
the
power
to
change
law.
If
we
don't
want
females
housed
with
male,
the
power
is
here
to
make
that
not
happen
in
Kentucky.
H
So
I've
always
been
amazed
over
the
years
when
I
sit
in
committees
that
we
bring
in
the
people
whose
budgets
we
control
and
kind
of
hold
their
feet
to
the
far
when
it
really
is
our
feed
that
should
be
held
to
the
fire
that
if
there
are
needs
that
are
not
being
met
because
of
budgets,
and
if
we
are
putting
kids
in
structures
that
aren't
appropriate
for
their
housing,
we
should
our
feet
should
be
held
to
the
the
fire,
because
it
is
us
that
appropriates
money.
H
It's
us
that
makes
the
laws
so
I
really
applaud
you
coming
and
being
very
honest
about
the
difficulties
that
you
are
having
I
hope
that
you
will
continue
to
come
before
the
legislature
and
talk
about
these
things
next
year
is
not
a
budget
year,
but
one's
coming
up.
H
I
would
love
to
because
I'm
from
Jefferson
County
I
would
love
to
see
a
different
structure
to
house
our
kids
so
that
less
lethal
kids,
that's
probably
a
terrible
way
to
categorize
them,
but
higher
risk
kids
could
be
kept
very
separate
from
lower
risk
kids
and
that
we
could
focus
on
treatment
because
Juvenile
Justice
was
was
carved
out
of
Corrections
because
it's
supposed
to
be
a
place
where
kids
get
treatment.
H
So
I
hope
that
the
next
legislature
we'll
look
at
funding
treatment
more
for
these
kids
earlier
interventions,
trauma-based
treatment
for
these
kids,
so
I
hope
that
you
will
continue
to
come
and
be
honest
and
truthful
with
us
and
ask
for
what
you
need
to
make
sure
that
these
kids,
these
and
I
know
we
want
to
sometimes
demonize
these
kids,
but
they
are
Kentucky,
kids
and
once
they
come
in
to
State
custody.
They're
all
of
our
children,
so
thank
you
so
much
for
coming.
A
Thank
you,
I
grew
representative
Jenkins.
I
would
also
note
that
you
guys
haven't
made
a
request
that
we
didn't
fulfill
and
neither
did
the
Bevin
Administration
when
they
took
over
this
facility.
So
if
you
make
a
request,
we'll
we'll
go
for
that
and
that's
what
we're
trying
to
do
as
legislators
is
dive
in,
but
just
to
be
clear
for
the
public
you've
not
made
a
request
that
has
been
that
has
been
unmet.
Representatives
sharp
thanks
chairman
and.
E
D
Is
this
something
that's
a
result
of
covid,
or
is
this
something
that's
always
been
there?
No!
No!
It's
it's
I
think
covid
seems
to
me.
D
I'm
sure
I
got
the
name
wrong,
but
in
that
audit
concern
was
expressed
in
2017
that
the
turnover
was
too
high
that
the
Staffing
was
too
short
and,
of
course,
when
you
have
high
turnover,
that
means
that
you're
always
training
new
people
and
you
don't
have
as
big
a
cohort
of
experienced
people
on
the
job.
So
it's
I
think
the
problem
is
worse
today
and
covid
I'm
sure
made
it
worse,
but
covet
didn't
cause
it.
It
existed
prior
to
covid
and
there's
and
that's
document.
E
Thank
you.
One
of
the
other
questions
I
have
is:
are
you
having
turnover
in
specific
locations
or
is
it
across
the
board.
D
Well
and
I'll,
let
the
commissioner
answer
more
fully,
but
we're,
as
I
indicated,
we're
it's
it's
worse
in
Campbell,
County
and
Jefferson
County,
and
that
that
mirrors
our
experience
with
the
Department
of
Corrections.
Again,
we
have
a
really
difficult
time:
Staffing
our
adult
facilities
in
Oldham
County,
but
with
the
exception
of
the
two
easternmost
facilities,
we
are
struggling
to
staff
in
the
other
six
detention
facilities.
So,
commissioner,
I.
C
Was
just
going
to
say,
it
really
is
a
much
so
much
a
detention
issue
problem
and
it's
because
by
far
it
is
the
most
difficult
job
that
we
have
out
there.
If
you're
working
at
one
of
our
Youth
Development,
Centers
and
one
of
the
group
homes,
you
have
kids
that
come
in
for
an
extended
period
of
time,
you're
doing
treatment
with
them.
C
You
did
relation,
you
know
them,
you
get
to
know
their
family,
you
take
them
on
outings,
you're,
playing
baseball,
you're
outside
they're,
doing
the
vocational
classes,
but
in
detention
centers
we
say
we
lose
a
lot
of
staff
half
out
of
our
four-week
Academy
used
to
the
first
time
they
went
in
and
those
two
double
doors
locked
behind
them
and
they
realized
that.
Not
only
are
the
kids
locked
in
they're
locked
in
and
it's
a
much
more
chaotic
environment.
You
may
have
a
kid
coming
into
a
group
home
one
new
kid.
C
Every
two
months
or
three
months
in
detention.
You've
got
could
be
a
car
load
of
six
I
mean
we
got
five
girls
from
one
of
the
who
set
a
fire
or
something
at
one
of
the
the
children's
homes
in
one
area
that
came
in
all
at
once,
you've
got
three
kids
on
suicide.
Watch.
You've
got
two
kids
going
out
to
court.
C
You've
got
one
kid,
you
know
who's
still
high
on
drugs
because
they
came
just
off
the
street
where,
when
they
go
to
our
other
facilities,
you
have
a
kid
coming
in
crying
because
he
was
just
driving
the
car
that
killed
his
best
friend.
So
it's
not
only
it's
not
only
physically,
demanding
and
stuff
is
very
emotional,
and
some
people
talk
about.
They
have
a
difficulty,
locking
the
kids
in
the
cells
at
night
that
that
you
know
so
it's
hard.
C
You
want
that
person
who
wants
to
help
kids,
but
then
it's
also
a
very
emotional
job
that
you're
doing
so.
It's
tough
work
and
so
I
really
admire
the
people
that
that
take
that
on
and
and
do
that
job
and
we
do
have
a
career
ladder.
That
is
the
one
nice
thing
I
would
like
to
mention
is
compared
to
some
areas.
We
do
have
that,
where
staff
can
can
work
up,
I
started
off
as
line
worker
and
juvenile
detention.
B
E
A
A
A
I
Name
is
Michael
Ross,
former
supervisor
of
Jefferson
region
of
juvenile
detention
center.
A
I
I
start
with
the
the
lighter
incident:
I
was
not
there
for
it,
but
once
you
get
the
intake
in
I,
don't
know
where
she
was
there
for.
If
the
police
didn't
search
her
and
find
the
lighter
once
you
get
there
once
they
get
to
intake
the
procedure
is
to
wander
and
have
a
female
staff
frisker
and
checkered
after
they
had
that
incident.
They
still
didn't
find
that
lighter.
I
She
should
have
been
taken
off
campus
either
the
superintendent
or
the
ysps
should
have
had
her
taken
off
campus
to
the
hospital
to
get
x-rayed,
make
sure
she
didn't
stuff
anything,
but
that
also
the
Staffing
they
supposedly
lowered
the
Staffing
or
whatever
I
mean
lowered
the
the
youth
in
the
facility.
I
But
to
my
knowledge
they
only
got
four
youth
workers.
You
can't
run
the
24-hour
facility
with
four
youth
workers.
The
rest
of
them
was
on
was
it
was
it
leave?
I
mean
aloe
medical
leave,
so
I'm,
not
sure
you
got
a
person
in
control.
I
You
need
a
float
staff,
you
need
well,
obviously,
the
supervisor
majority
you
needed
like
five
working
per
shift.
I
There's
no
way
you
can
do
it,
but
the
Staffing
that
they
got
right
now,
I,
don't
care
if
it's
just,
if
they're
only
down
to
four
or
five
residents,
there's
possibly
no
way
to
do
it
safely,
because
you
never
know
when
the
intake
is
coming
in
once
an
intake
does
come
in
after
you
reach
that
cap
they're
supposed
to
take
them
to
the
nearest
facility
or
whatever
police,
either
Louisville
Metro
was
supposed
to
take
them
or
the
transportation
DJJ
Transportation
should
transport
them
to
their
breath
that
or
any
other
facility.
I
A
I
I
When
I
was
there,
they
only
had
two
units
at
the
time
one
unit
has
restrooms
the
other
unit,
didn't
have
restrooms.
Now
they
got
three,
they
moved
the
intake
to
where
the
rec
room
used
to
be
with
that.
Now
they
can
house
up
to
30
Youth
and
three
isolation
rooms,
also
one
on
each
unit,
so
it
can
house
up
to
33.
I
one
of
my
former
youth
workers
told
me
they
were
up
to
37..
So
there's
no
way
you
can
justify.
I
A
I
When
we
first
opened
the
doors
didn't
even
lock
and
they
got
two
restrooms
on
the
unit.
So
if
the
kid
had
to
go
to
the
restroom
first
come
first
serve,
you
go
to
the
restroom
that
was
male
or
female.
Whatever
it
didn't
make
any
difference
at
first,
we
were
having
kids
just
run
out,
run
out
the
unit
staff.
I
Couldn't
you
know,
tell
me
stay
in
your
room
whatever,
but
the
doors
didn't
lock
then
once
they
finally
got
the
locks
put
on
there,
they
didn't
put
strong
locks
on
there,
so
the
kids
would
actually
kick
the
doors
open
when
they
got
upset
and
then,
if
they
were
on
the,
if
they
had
been
restrained
and
put
back
in
their
cell
if
they
had
to
go
to
the
restroom.
That
was
an
issue.
I
So
now
you
got
to
fight
again
when
you
let
them
out
to
go
to
the
restroom
I
think
from
upper
management
who
they
hired
in
they.
I
I
When
we
first
went
down
there,
we
told
them
it's
the
building's
not
up
to
code,
there's
nothing
in
there,
no
policies,
no
procedures,
nothing
was
set
up
for
it
and
we
didn't
want
to
go
down
there.
We
didn't
feel
safe
and
it
opened
in
December,
31st
2019.
I
I
Youth
rights
were
being
violated
same
as
now
continue
after
I
left
I
was
speaking
up
because
I
was
trained
to
follow
policies
and
procedures
of
DJJ
policy.
I
would
speak
up
hey.
This
is
not
right
and
to
keep
me
quiet.
They
moved
me
the
third
shift
where
I
had
been
the
the
first
year
supervisor
the
whole
time
they
didn't
want
me
seeing
stuff
that
they
were
doing.
I
I
was
like
because
I
would
like
come
in
a
kid
had
been
in
isolation
on
second
shift,
so
once
they
go
into
isolation,
they're
supposed
to
be
a
15-minute
check
every
time
they're
in
there,
you
is
supposed
to
go
and
physically
check
and
make
sure
they're
in
that
room.
Every
15
minutes
checks
wasn't
getting
done
so
I
reported
it
I
was
told
that
I'm
just
trying
to
get
somebody
in
trouble,
Paramount
supervisor
and
superintendent.
I
That's
what
I
was
told.
The
Staffing
issue
we
were
on
eight
hour
shifts,
so
the
group
home
was
forced
to
family
come
over
there
and
work
with
us.
I
When
I
got
detailed
down
there,
they
changed
the
off
days,
automatically
changed
ours
and
and
when
the
group
home
came
over
there,
the
Deputy
Commissioner,
he
was
fra
at
the
time,
worked
that
he
was
the
superintendent
of
the
group
home.
He
refused
to
change
the
new,
the
group
home
staff's
off
days,
so
they
had
three
days
off
either.
I
Was
it
Thursday
Friday
Saturday
a
Sunday
Monday
Tuesday,
which
created
overtime
for
no
reason,
because
when
they
first
came
over
that
we
had
plenty
of
staff,
but
he
refused
to
change
their
their
days
off.
I
got
the
in
my
folder
I
got
copies
of
to
show
you
the
schedule
or
everybody's
schedule,
whatever,
where
the
group
home
staff
there
was
detailed
over
there.
They
had
three
days
off
compared
to
us
and
we
had
staff
that
had
off
days
like
Tuesday
Wednesday
and
whatever
per
facility
needs
on
the
weekend.
I
You
don't
have
as
many
staff
superintendents
ysps
are
basically
gone,
but
we
had
two
ysps's
that
was
working
first
shift
Monday
through
Friday,
but
you
needed
one
of
them
to
have
the
weekends
off
I
mean
either
Friday
Saturday
or
Sunday
Monday
for
the
off
days,
but
they
both
had
the
weekend
off,
leaving
only
the
supervisor.
In
case
something
happens:
superintendents
Monday
through
Friday
and
something
happens.
Nobody
there,
the
cooking
situation
where
she
she,
commissioner
Reed
talked
about.
I
There
was
an
issue
the
whole
time
with
the
cooking
some
of
the
superintendents,
but
from
the
Louisville
they
said,
would
help
cook
on
the
weekends
or
come
in
on
that
time.
Couldn't
get
the
superintendent
that
was
running
the
detention
at
the
time
he
came
in
maybe
once,
but
that
was
his
time
and
they
were
forcing
the
supervisor
to
cook,
but
we
were
under
staff.
I
A
So
you
made,
you
said
there
was
a
grievance.
That
was
agreements
that
you
made
that
just
because
rules
weren't
being
followed
everything.
I
I
spoke
up
about
to
let
the
superintendent
know
that
was
just
higher
than
I.
We
can't
do
this
per
policy,
we
got
to
do
this,
we
need
help
or
whatever-
and
this
was
in
the
fall
of
2020.
A
Yeah,
okay,
and
so
you
no
longer
work
with
the
with
the
government.
Do
you
no.
I
There
was
just
too
many
safety
violations
that
that
they
were
doing
that.
Wasn't
right
incident
reports.
You
could
call
up
an
incident,
but
they
don't
have
any
paperwork
on
it.
So
I
don't
know
if
they
falsified
it
or
just
disappeared
incidents
that
I
brought
up
that
I
I
gave
a
Ombudsman
before
I
left
them.
People
got
investigated,
it
was
all
like
supervisors
or
ysps.
I
My
camera
access
was
taken
before
I
left
for
I
couldn't
monitor
certain
spots
in
in
the
the
facility
one
room,
particularly
where
we
have
phone
calls
for
you
I'm
like
well.
We
need
to
have
access
to
this
room
to
see,
if
anything
happens,
while
they're
in
there
talking
with
the
on
the
phone
or
with
the
counselors
that
came
to
speak
to
them,
the
worker
rather
and
I
was
denied.
I
I
If
you
monitor,
if
a
youth
workers
work
in
the
unit,
that's
supposed
to
stay
on
their
unit,
if
the
residents
are
in
their
cell,
the
youth
worker
still
got
to
physically
go
and
look
and
monitor,
make
sure
check
the
rooms
where
the
wine
that
beeps
and
Records
every
time
that
the
room
is
checked
on
the
unit
where
I
said
where
they
put
the
paper
in
between
the
mag
lock.
I
They
got
cameras
in
that
that
room
in
in
their
room
in
their
cells,
but
you're
physically
supposed
to
go,
watch
and
look
and
see
if
they're
in
there.
The
kids
are.
What
they're
doing
the
kids
basically
done
covered
up
the
cameras.
So
you
can't
see
the
other
two
units
have
no
cameras
in
the
rooms
with
no
youth
worker
either
because
they
don't
have
the
staff.
So
a
youth
can
do
anything
in
that
room.
But
you
like
I,
said
it's
supposed
to
have
somebody
monitoring
every
15
minutes
if
they're
in
their
cells.
A
D
A
I
got
two
more
questions.
One
do
you
have
do
you
have
any
comment
on
housing,
young
women
and
young
men
together.
I
That
was
kind
of
like
while
I
was
running
shift.
There
was
no
issue
with
it.
My
staff
might
make
sure
that
the
the
female
was
on
one
side
of
the
room
in
the
day
room
and
the
male
staff
was
on
the
other
you're
supposed
to
be
sitting
with
them.
I
I
know
it's
an
issue
because
I
know
of
the
two
incidents
that
actually
happened,
and
that
was
basically
for
staff
leaving
the
unit
and
what
incidents
are
you
talking
about?
I,
don't
know
about
these
incidents,
the
sexual
allegations
that
happen
just
from
staff
leading
the
unit.
I
None
of
them
have
been
trained
as
far
as
the
Academy
I,
don't
know.
If
they
still
do
it
because
I
know
just
before
I
left,
they
were
saying
that
they
were
going
to
start
training
them
on
the
end
of
the
detention
centers.
Instead
of
going
to
the
five-week
academy
which
I
went
through
so
like
I
said
they
don't
learn
policy
procedures,
whoever
the
youth
worker
that
trains
them.
I
A
All
right
last
question:
I
have
and
I
don't
know
if
anybody
else
has
any
is
taken
into
account.
The
as
Senator
Thomas
said
these
they're,
not
I.
Don't
think
you
think
you
said
Not
Angels
I,
don't
remember
how
you
put
it.
No.
A
That's
right
so
taking
into
account
that
these
children
are
not
in
the
church
choir
put
it
that
way.
To
borrow
words,
are
these
kids
safe,
no
they're.
I
I
If
you
look
at
the
the
rights,
if
a
kid
don't
get
phone
calls
kids
not
getting
showers,
those
are
rights
has
been
violated.
You
know,
I,
don't
even
know
if
they're
washing
their
blankets
weekly,
because
all
of
that
stuff
is
supposed
to
be
done.
This
was
brought
but
by
policy
and
procedure
in
the
DJJ
policies
and
I,
don't
know
about
what's
going
on
at
the
other
facilities,
but
as
far
as
that,
Jefferson
it's
not
it's
not
being
handled
and
I
know.
I
The
main
reason
for
that
is
because
of
the
main
person
that
was
over
Jefferson
and
was
blocking
everything
going
through
was
Deputy
Commissioner
George
Scott,
but
he
was
basically
over
the
hiring
putting
people
in
place
and
just
blocking
stuff
getting
up
to
the
Commissioners
from
look
Miss,
Harris,
Miss,
Reed
and
I'm,
not
sure
who
else.
A
A
Identify
yourself
for
the
record,
sir
Brent
Hagan
city
of
Linden
mayor,
thank
you
and
the
reason
I
asked
you
to
come
here
is
because
I
represent
this
area,
and
you
contacted
me
and
let
me
know
about
some
of
the
incidents
about
how,
when
your
police,
chief
and
also
St
Matthew's
linen
fire
had
to
respond
and
some
other
things,
and
so
you've.
You've
listened
to
this
today.
I
wanted
to
give
you
an
opportunity
to
to
to
address
this
committee
and
and
give
us
your
thoughts.
Okay,.
J
Well,
I
was
here
today
to
you,
know,
address
the
committee
I
believe
the
commissioner
and
secretary
pretty
much
admitted
the
things
that
I
was
going
to
bring
to
you
as
well
as
Mr
Scott
here
with
some
of
the
issues
that
policy
and
procedure
seem
to
be
one
of
the
biggest
issues
right
now,
mainly
with
our
newly
enabled
the
Linden
Police
Department,
that
we
don't
have
any
written
emergency
plan.
J
The
time
that
we
responded
to
a
fire,
the
staff
on
hand
did
not
have
keys
or
know
which
Keys
opened
certain
doors
so
that
the
firefighters
could
extinguish
the
fire.
Furthermore,
the
first
fire
that
was
discussed
earlier
this
afternoon
was
not
reported
to
any
fire
department
or
the
police
department.
They
extinguished
it
without
harm
us
I
assume,
but
they
didn't
let
anyone
know.
So.
That's
happened
a
number
of
times
from
what
I've
been
told
by
the
fire
chief
of
the
city
of
Saint
Matthews.
J
Is
your
mic
on
I
believe
so?
Okay
sitting
close
enough
okay,
so
it's
really
not
a
fit
for
maximum
security
facility.
As
it's
been
said
before,
the
doors
and
locks
are
routinely
broken,
the
window
a
window
was
kicked
out
during
the
last
response
for
a
fire
in
which
the
juvenile
escaped
someone
was
brandishing
a
piece
of
metal
at
one
of
the
firemen,
so
fire
chief
has
directed
his
his
firemen
if
they
make
a
run
they're
not
going
to
enter
the
building
unless
we
can
guarantee
their
safety,
and
so
we
need
to.
J
We
need
to
know
what
the
emergency
action
plan
is
moving
forward.
We
also
need
to
know
who
we
can
contact
after
hours,
because
this
incident
was
an
after
hours
incident.
The
commissioner
supervisor,
director,
or
anyone
on
site
was
not
able
to
be
contacted
for
us
to
make
arrangements
to
get
into
the
facility.
You
know
in
the
best
location,
to
extinguish
that
fire
so
other
than
that
I'm
here,
because
the
citizens
of
Linden
and
my
neighbors
and
and
constituents
are
concerned
about
their
safety.
J
In
fact,
the
escaped
inmate
some
months
ago
was
was
collected,
two
doors
down
from
where
I
live,
so
that
is
also
unacceptable,
but
we
have
to
do
something
if
it's,
if
it's
this
committee
and
and
you
as
lawmakers-
to
to
allow
them
to
have
more
money
to
to
upgrade
this
facility-
I'm,
not
against
it
being
in
my
city,
but
we
need
to
take
steps
to
get
these
things
with
policy
and
procedures
of
training
staff
needs
to
be
taken
care
of
for
this
to
continue
to
operate
because,
right
now
you
know
neighbors
fear
their
safety
anytime.
J
A
You
I
want
to
note
this
issue:
wouldn't
Reach
This
level,
if
it
weren't
for
you
mayor,
so
your
citizen
should
know
that
I
also
want
you
to
know
that
secretary
Harvey
is
sinking
his
teeth
into
this
and
I
think
he
is
very
serious
about
what
he's.
What
he's
trying
to
get
accomplishing
his
staff
and
he's
got
a
great
great
deal
of
experience,
and
so
now
that
he's
on
it
I
think
I
think
I
think
it's
going
to
go
in
the
right
direction.
A
F
You
know
I
just
want
to
kind
of
pull
all
this
together.
If
I
can
so
so
I
understand
that
the
levels
of
the
issues
here
first,
it
appears
that
this
is
a
facility
that
DJJ
should
have
never
taken
over.
To
begin
with,
we
should
have
never
put
any
offenders
juvenile
offenders
in
this
facility
not
designed
for
it
not
safe.
So
that
seems
to
be
the
first
question
as
to
why
that
happened.
There
seems
to
be
issues
with
reporting
that
that
may
or
may
not
have
made
it
to
the
commissioner's
office.
F
So
there
may
be
some
personal
policy
if
not
criminal
behavior
on
that.
That
needs
to
be
addressed
and
Mr
secretary
I
I
would
assume
that
the
breadth
of
your
investigation
will
cover
all
of
these
issues,
not
just
the
fires.
A
D
You
sure,
yes,
we'll
we'll
take
a
look
as
far
as
I'm
concerned
everything's
on
the
table.
I
think
we
all
want
the
same
thing.
We
want
these
kids
to
be
safe.
We
want
our
staff
to
be
safe,
I
mean
to
the
mayor
what
what
he
said
about
having
con
after
hours,
contacts
and
emergency
action
plan
that
is
entirely
reasonable.
We,
we
should
have
already
done
that
and
we'll
solve
that
mayor.
But
yes,
we'll
take
a
full
look
at
all
of
this.
D
F
D
F
D
F
D
Have
the
cdws
are
I
think
AOC
employees,
so
they're
not
we'd,
be
happy
to
talk
to
them
about
that.
If
we
have
any
volunteers
but
I've.
D
We
do
have-
and
I
mentioned
this
and
I
and
I-
think
these
folks
deserve
some
credit.
We've
got
a
whole
bunch
of
people
that
work
in
the
central
office
and
the
regional
office
that
have
have
over
the
last
year
or
so
spent
hundreds
of
hours
pulling
shifts
and
in
the
Louisville
facility
to
try
to
imperfectly
fill
the
gaps
and
I
was
told
that
and
I
told
my
Personnel
person
I
said
I
want
I,
don't
want
to
just
be
told
that
I
want
to
know
that
and
we
pull
the
records
and
we've
had
central
office.
D
People
that
collectively
have
spent
hundreds
of
hours
pulling
shifts
in
this
facility
and
I
think
that's
that's.
They
deserve
our
thanks
for
that.
Okay
and.
F
Today
is
there
an
immediate
risk
to
the
community
as
that
Center
that
facility
stands
today?
Is
there
a
need?
Has
the
governor
considered
moving
some
folks
in
to
to
help
there
until
there
is
a
more
until
y'all
can
get
some
staffing
there
is?
Are
we
any
better
off
today
than
we
were
when
these
things
happen?
Yes,.
D
Senator,
we
are
because
we
have
taken
steps
to
significantly
reduce
the
population
and
it's
our
job
to
make
sure
that
that
population
and
doesn't
creep
up,
because
that's
always
a
danger,
but
we
are
better
off
when
in
the
first
during
the
covet
days,
I
I
think
I
could
be
wrong
on
this
because
I
don't
know
every
incident,
that's
ever
happened
in
this
facility.
You
know
but
I
think
when
we
were
keeping
a
smaller
number
of
Youth.
We
didn't
encounter
these
problems
with
the
same
kind
of
frequency.
D
I
mean
that
makes
sense,
and
so
that
is
a
significant
step
that
I
think
has
has
made
things
better.
Now,
I
can't
sit
here,
no
one
can
at
any
facility
and
guarantee
that
something
bad
will
never
happen,
but
I
think
we
are
materially
better
off
I
think
when
we
get
these
body
scanners
in
the
facility
that
will
enhance
security
and
and
we're
I
I
I
promise
you
we
are
this
is
this
is
a
subject
of
daily
consideration
about
how
we
can
address
this
and
and
chairman
to
your
point,
I
appreciated
your
remarks.
D
We
are
going
to
dig
into
this.
We
will.
We
will
work
with
you
and
your
staff
and
and
Mr
Ross
I
appreciate
what
he
had
to
say.
I
I,
can't
you
know,
confirm
or
verify
every
little
incident,
but
I
think
he
made
the
point
more
eloquently
than
I
did
that
the
the
core
problem
is
a
staffing
problem
and
until
we
can
can
find
a
way
to
solve
that
we're
gonna
we're
gonna,
have
trouble,
but
in
this
particular
facility,
where,
as
long
as
we
keep
this
population
down,
we're
going
to
be
better
off.
Okay
and.
F
And
I
don't
disagree
with
you
that
that
Staffing
is
the
core
problem,
but
there
were.
It
appears
that
there
were
many
other
issues
that
were
not
properly
addressed
and
the
magnitude
of
the
problem
doesn't
I
know
you
well
enough
to
know
that.
Had
that
reached
your
ears,
there
would
have
been
something
done
about
that,
so
that
in
itself
is
a
separate
issue
and
is
a
problem
as
it
stands
last
session
budget
session.
If
there
was
ever
a
time
probably
in
the
history
of
this
state,
to
ask
for
money
for
something
this
was
the
session.
J
D
That
time,
at
least
as
far
as
I
know,
these
problems
had
not
really
manifested
themselves
in
a
way
that
it
was
at
my
to
had
come
to
my
attention.
I
think
as
I
understand
it,
we
did
have
some
defective
doors.
Now
this
this
facility
was
never
meant
to
be
a
Detention
Facility.
In
fact,
none
of
our
facilities
are
maximum
security.
I
I,
don't
want
anybody.
D
It's
my
you
know,
I
think
Adair
County
is
probably
the
the
stoutest
which
is
probably
built
to
the
standard
of
a
medium
security
adult
facility,
but
I
think
in
some
cases
we
we
had
doors
I'm
told
that
just
were
defective
from
the
manufacturer,
some
of
the
locks
and
that
sort
of
thing
so
that
when
we
were
making
our
budget
request,
I
can
tell
you
that
I
was
unaware
of
these
problems
and
I'll
take
responsibility
for
that
for
the
problems
with
the
physical
facilities.
D
F
You
know
some
of
these
things
are
predictable
and
with
the
level
of
expertise
within
DJJ
and
and
I
I.
Just
you
know,
some
things
you
can
just
predict
are
going
to
happen
too.
Many
too
many
offenders
in
an
unsecure
space,
with
a
not
properly
trained
understaffed,
a
recipe
for
disaster
and
some
of
your
lower
level
supervisors.
Whoever
somebody
dropped
the
ball
big
time.
D
And
and
I
I
think
I
acknowledge
this
I
certainly
meant
to
it
in
the
incidents
that
I
described
and
certainly
possible
in
the
incidents
the
chairman
described.
We
had
some
failures,
there's
and
we're
going
to
dig
into
that,
and
one
of
the
things
we're
going
to
do
is
is
a
fulsome
review
of
our
disciplinary
process.
Now
a
lot
of
the
disciplinary
process
is
is
rooted
in
state
law
and
state
regulation.
D
Well,
we've
had
some
adult
conversations
about
that
and
I
think
what
we
have.
We
have
to,
we
have
to
hold
our
people
to
an
appropriate
standard,
and
you
know
if
we
run
out
of
people.
We
run
out
of
people,
but
we
have
to
have
an
expectation
that
we'll
have
appropriate
performance
of
everybody
involved
in
this
system.
Up
to
and
including
me.
F
F
G
Thank
you,
Mr
chair
and
Mr
chair
I
really
have
more
of
a
summarization
than
a
question,
because
I
think
we've
done
an
excellent
job.
Today
you
and
my
Senate
co-chair
of
highlighting
the
problems
but
again
I
think
we
have
to
acknowledge
I
go
back
to
what
what
representative
Jenkins
said
that
we're
in
a
position
to
address
these
problems.
You
know:
we've
we've
highlighted,
as
secretary
Harvey
has
said,
that
Staffing
is
a
big
problem.
Okay,
if
Staffing
is
a
big
problem,
we
can
fix
that
chairman
nemus.
G
You
have
articulated
on
more
than
one
occasion
today
that
that
you
don't
like
the
fact
that
that
we,
we
house
boys
and
girls,
because
we're
all
talking
about
teenagers
in
one
facility,
but
we're
we're
lawmakers
we're
in
a
position
that
we
want
to
fix
that
I.
Think.
What's
clear,
as
the
secretary
Harvey
said,
that
as
things
stand
now,
we
are
not
in
violation
of
the
law.
We
are
not
in
violation
the
law,
because
we
have
have
boys
and
girls
together,
so
we're
not
doing
anything
unlawful.
G
You
know
why
we
have
this
problem
in
the
first
place
and-
and
we
really
got
to
address
you-
know-
reducing
the
population
because
you
said
secretary
Harvey
a
couple
of
times
a
day
too
that
if
we
keep
the
population
down,
we
don't
see
these
problems
that
you've
I
did
not
find,
and
we
don't
see
the
problems
that
we
see
again
in
areas
in
cities
across
this
state,
Lexington,
Louisville
and
others
of
constant
shootings,
constant
murders,
constant
crime.
We've
got
to
get
a
handle
on
that
people.
We've
got
to
get
a
handle
on
that.
G
So
I
appreciate
the
ideas.
You've
come
forward
with
today,
secretary
Harvey
and
commissioner
Reed
and
I'm
going
to
take
that
back
to
my
own
community
and
work
on
that.
So
so
we
can
we
we
can
get
Lexington
back
to
where
it
was
when
I
was
growing
up.
Vicki
a
second
second
commissioner,
Reed
and
and
have
Lexington,
be
the
kind
of
place
where
people
really
feel
comfortable.
You
know
walking
around
and
being
safe
in
their
communities.
D
And
I
appreciate
your
word
Senator
and
that
it
is
my
understanding
that
we're
not
in
violation
of
the
law
I'm
relying
on
our
legal
staff.
I'm
no
expert
on
that,
but
I
also
take
the
Chairman's
very
good
point.
That
I
mean
the
the
law
is
the
starting.
Is
the
first
question:
it's
not
the
last
question
and
we're
we're
certainly
looking
to
do
the
best
we
can
to
to
keep
staff
and
these
children
safe
and
to
provide
the
children
with
what
they
need.
Well,.
A
So
in
closing,
I
want
to
thank
you
for
coming
mayor.
Thank
you
for
coming
secretary,
commissioner.
Mr
Ross
appreciate
it
for
everybody's.
Come
you
know
with
respect
to
reducing
the
population
of
overall
juveniles,
that's
obviously
a
great
goal.
We
need
to
obviously
attack
the
causes
of
crime,
but
it
doesn't
look
like
our
juvenile
populations
are
going
to
go
down
anytime
soon
in
September,
Louisville
had
the
highest
number
of
murders
in
any
month
that
it
ever
had.
A
Lexington
has
already
broken
its
yearly
record
and
we're,
and
that
was
the
beginning
of
October,
and
if
you
talk
to
law
enforcement,
all
of
this
or
the
Lion's
Share
of
this
is
driven
by
juveniles,
so
we're
probably
going
to
have
more
juveniles
rather
than
fewer.
We
can
look
at
the
causes
of
that.
It's
important
to
do
that.
We
have.
We
have
experts
that
we
need
to
hear
from
and
so
forth
on
that
question.
But
this
question
today
is
about
this
facility
in
Linden
and
our
facilities.
A
Statewide
and
we've
talked
about
a
number
of
the
problems
all
over
the
state.
It
is
not
run
well,
some
of
it
most
of
it
and
perhaps
is
about
is
about
is
about
Staffing,
but
the
consequence
of
that
is
this.
Community
in
Linden
is
in
danger.
The
staff
members
are
in
danger.
Many
of
them
had
to
take
off
because
they've
been
harmed
by
these.
These
young
people,
these
young
people
are
in
danger
and
it
is
on
all
of
us,
especially
you
to
get
this
thing
resolved.
A
If
there
are
things
that
need
to
be
done
in
the
short
term,
let's
hear
them
immediately,
I'm
sure
chairman,
Carol
and
I,
and
everyone
on
this
committee
will
will
do
cartwheels
to
help
you
get
that
done,
but
also
we
need
to
get
a
midterm
and
a
long-term
approach,
and
it's
not
the
facility
in
Linden.
It
may
be
another
facility
in
Linden,
maybe
a
facility
in
St
Matthews,
maybe
one
downtown
Louisville,
maybe
outside
of
Jefferson
County,
but
this
facility
is
not
going
to
get
it
done
long
term.
A
So
we
need
to
have
that
kind
of
situation
looked
at.
Secondarily,
primarily,
we've
got
to
get
this
thing
under
control
and
I'm
glad
that
you're
on
it.
Our
staff
is
on
it
and
and
and
want
the
community
to
know
that
that
we're
we're
all
trying
to
to
pull
from
the
same
side
of
the
rope
and
get
and
get
this
accomplished,
so
the
safety
of
all
involved
can
be
can
be
protected.
With
that.