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A
A
A
E
E
A
Opposed
the
minutes
are
adopted
at
this
time.
I
would
like
to
make
just
a
brief
introduction
regarding
committee
staff,
administrator
Mr
Hoffman
here,
who
suited
to
my
left.
This
is
his
last
meeting
with
us,
and
I
would
like
to
thank
him
for
his
service
to
the
committee
and
he's
done
a
stellar
job,
and
so
other
members
may
have
comments
at
this
point
or
may
want
to
wait
until
the
end
of
the
meeting.
But
I
did
want
to
thank
you
for
your
work.
F
A
D
And
I'll
make
a
quick
comment:
I've
only
worked
with
with
Mr
Hoffman
for
I
guess
since
January,
really
maybe
a
little
bit
before
then,
but
you've
just
been
the
ultimate
professional
you
you
have
a
job
to
do
and
you
do
it
well,
and
we
are
definitely
going
to
miss
your
service
to
this
committee
and
to
the
lrc
as
a
whole
and
job
well
done,
and
best
of
luck
to
you
in
your
your
next
Adventures
I'll
say:
okay.
Thank
you,
sir.
A
I
think
at
this
point,
we'll
jump
right
into
the
item
number
three
on
the
agenda:
the
Kentucky
child
Fatality
and
near
fatality
external
review
panel
23
update
gentlemen:
you
have
the
table.
G
Good
afternoon
I'm
Jeremy
Skinner,
and
this
is
Jacob
Blevins-
we're
both
analysts
for
the
legislative
oversight
and
investigations
committee,
and
we
are
here
today
to
present
a
brief
summary
of
our
most
recent
evaluation
of
the
Kentucky
child
Fatality
and
near
fatality
external
review
panel
for
background.
The
panel
was
created
by
executive
order
in
2012
and
codified
the
following
year
in
2013.,
the
panel
statute
was
amended
in
2022,
with
the
passage
of
Senate
Bill
97,
among
other
things,
that
bill
changed
the
panel's
composition
and
Reporting
requirements.
G
G
The
panel
is
then
to
document
its
case
reviews
in
an
annual
report,
which
includes
findings
based
on
those
reviews,
along
with
recommendations
for
system
and
process
improvements.
Statute
also
requires
this
committee
to
conduct
annual
evaluations
of
the
panel's
operations,
procedures
and
recommendations.
G
G
G
This
update
was
an
improvement
over
the
previous
data
Tool
because
it
included
more
analysis,
friendly
options
such
as
multiple
choice,
rather
than
relying
too
heavily
on
text
boxes.
G
Additionally,
panel
staff
and
members
work
to
create
an
analyst
binder
which
serves
as
the
panel's
data
dictionary.
In
addition
to
being
a
step-by-step
reference
for
analysts
working
on
cases,
the
panel
uses
another
program
called
SharePoint
to
upload
information
and
records
from
chfs
to
a
secure
online
location.
G
Sharepoint
is
in
need
of
an
update,
reportedly
and
according
to
the
panel,
this
upgrade
will
be
costly
and
time
consuming.
The
panel
is
working
with
the
Commonwealth
office
of
technology
and
Justice
cabinet
budget
staff
to
explore
software
options.
This
may
mean
updating,
SharePoint
and
sticking
with
essentially
the
the
system
as
it
currently
is,
or
it
could
mean
purchase
purchasing
new
software
programs
for
case
reviews.
G
Regarding
the
panel's
budget
and
expenditures,
the
justice
and
Public
Safety
cabinet
interact
interacts
directly
with
the
panel
regarding
its
budget,
preparation
and
expenditures
for
context.
The
panel
is
attached
to
the
Justice
cabinet
for
staff
and
administrative
purposes
in
2014.
The
panel
through
the
cabinet
requested
420
000
in
annual
funding
for
panel
Staffing
and
operations,
and
this
420
000
was
included
in
the
2014
through
2016
budget
of
the
Commonwealth
as
part
of
as
part
of
the
Justice
Administration
budget.
G
Also
in
2014,
the
panel
and
Justice
cabinet
worked
on
a
memorandum
of
understanding
which
outlined
the
panel's
budget
and
expenditure
procedures.
The
mou
has
not
been
updated
since
that
time
and
is
likely
in
need
of
an
update
to
reflect
current
budget
and
expenditure
procedures
in
2021.
The
panel
worked
with
the
cabinet
and
submitted
a
budget
request
and
was
allotted
four
hundred
and
twenty
thousand
dollars
in
the
2022-2024
budget
of
the
Commonwealth.
Additionally,
expenditure
budget
authorities
were
established
in
emars
for
the
panel.
G
This
table
details
the
panel's
expenditures
from
fiscal
year
2015
through
fiscal
year
2023,
as
shown
here.
The
panel
has
yet
to
expend
up
to
the
400
up
to
the
full
420
000
that
were
envisioned
by
the
Appropriations
in
2014
and
2022.
However,
panel
expenses
have
increased
over
the
past
two
years.
The
bulk
of
panel
expenditures
are
related
to
Personnel
costs.
G
The
panel's
budget
request
in
2022
included
a
request
for
funding
for
two
full-time
positions:
a
social
service
clinician
two,
which
is
essentially
a
data
and
another
case
Analyst
and
an
epidemiologist
one
in
its
justification
for
additional
funding.
The
panel
indicated
increased
case
loads,
resulting
from
its
recent
collaborations,
with
DP
the
department
for
public
health
to
encourage
the
referral
of
cases
from
local
child
fatality
review
teams.
G
Panel
Staffing
remained
relatively
unchanged
throughout
fiscal
year
2023,
however,
in
July
2023,
the
start
of
fiscal
year
2024
the
panel
added
an
administrative
staff
member
who
will
be
shared
with
another
office.
The
office
of
drug
control
policy
Additionally.
The
panel
entered
into
a
memorandum
of
agreement
with
the
department
for
public
health
for
epidemiologist
services
and
the
epidemiologist
from
dph
will
assist
the
panel
in
analysis
for
its
annual
report.
G
Our
first
recommendation
recommendation
3.1,
is
that
the
panel
should
continue
to
work
with
the
Commonwealth
office
of
technology
and
Justice
cabinet
budget
staff
to
explore
options
related
to
the
software
platforms
that
it
uses
to
store,
review
and
analyze
cases.
The
panel
has
responded
to
our
recommendation
and
have
indicated
that
they
agree
with
it.
G
H
Senate
Bill
97
was
passed
during
the
2022
regular
session
and
amended
sections
of
KRS
chapter
620
and
KRS
chapter
72..
Specific
changes
were
made
regarding
a
number
of
areas,
including
the
panel's
composition,
the
deadline
by
which
the
panel
must
publish
its
annual
report,
the
privileged
nature
of
panel
proceedings,
records
opinions
and
deliberations
and
Corner
notifications.
H
H
A
requirement
was
also
added
for
law
enforcement
to
request
a
test
of
blood
breath
or
urine
when
a
report
includes
a
child
fatality
or
near
Fatality,
and
an
officer
has
reason
to
believe
the
child's
Supervisor
was
under
the
influence
of
drugs
or
alcohol.
At
the
time
of
the
incident
over
the
past
year,
the
panel
has
taken
action
to
implement
these
changes.
H
Specifically,
the
panel
has
assisted
with
training
for
coroners
and
law
enforcement
and
include
recommendations
in
its
annual
report
related
to
the
training
of
law
enforcement
officers,
Additionally
the
panel
notified
and
assisted
appointing
agencies
in
order
to
fill
vacant
panel.
Member
positions,
it
should
be
noted
at
this
time
that
table
2.1
in
our
evaluation
shows
that
there
are
currently
six
vacant
panel
member
positions.
However,
at
the
end
of
July,
three
new
members
were
appointed
to
the
panel.
H
The
panel
has
met
its
reporting
requirements
by
determining
and
forwarding
recommendations
to
responsible
agencies.
From
its
most
recent
annual
report,
the
panel's
2022
annual
report
included
21
recommendations
which
were
forwarded
to
recipient
agencies
on
February
1st
2023,
which
is
the
report's
publication
date.
H
H
Recommendation
3.3
is
that
the
panel
should
develop
procedures
to
follow
up
with
agencies
that
do
not
comply
with
statute.
For
example,
these
procedures
could
include
the
use
of
formatted
cover
sheets
attached
to
the
recommendations
for
agencies
to
complete
for
a
more
standardized
follow-up
process.
H
If
additional
panel
staff
are
needed
to
comply
with
the
statutory
changes,
this
should
be
noted
in
future
budget
requests.
The
agency
partially
agrees
with
its
recommendation,
as
stated
in
the
report.
They
believe
that
the
agency
follow-up
is
important,
but
do
not
have
the
time
nor
the
statutory
authority
to
enforce
recommendations.
H
For
example,
in
the
2022
report,
all
14
findings
were
based
on
data
or
analysis
identified
in
the
report.
All
21
recommendations
in
the
report
address
the
concerns
identified
in
the
findings.
All
recommendations
were
both
targeted
and
actionable
table.
3.9
in
the
report
provides
additional
information
on
the
panel's
findings
in
its
2022
annual
report.
H
H
H
F
Yes,
thank
you.
Mr
chairman
I,
just
have
a
quick
question
back
on
where
you
listed
recommendation.
3.3.
F
You
made
the
statement
that
the
panel
should
develop
procedures
to
follow
up
with
agencies
that
do
not
comply.
Can
you
tell
me,
or
do
you
know
why
there
are
agencies
that
are
not
complying
with
the
existing
statute?.
H
It
is
the
first
year
we're
doing
this.
The
law
passed
last
year,
so
there
is
a
little
bit
of
learning
curve.
Obviously
we
have
to
comply
with
statute,
but
we
don't
have
a
direct
answer
for
why
that
may
be
I
suspect
that
it's
just
nobody's
in
practice
with
the
process
just
yet.
G
At
this
point,
there's
several
factors
involved
because
they're
supposed
to
reply
in
writing
within
a
specified
time
frame
90
days,
10
of
the
recommendations,
which
doesn't
necessarily
mean
10
agencies.
Just
10
of
the
recommendations
were
met,
those
requirements
they
did
receive
an
additional
six
after
the
time
frame,
so
in
Late
July,
so
they've
received
the
majority
at
this
point.
16
out
of
21.
so
and
the
agencies
are
typically
within
chfs
department
for
Public
Health
other
departments
in
there.
G
And
there
are
some
like
the
Kentucky
Board
of
Pharmacy
they're
a
little
bit
more
outside
of
that
than
aren't
under
chfs,
but
they
so
they
overall
did
receive
a
you
know
pretty
decent
response,
just
not
necessarily
within
the
time
frame
desired,
but.
J
You
Mr
chair
I'm,
looking
at
table
3.8
about
recommendations
that
did
not
receive
an
agency
response
and
number
16
is
listing.
The
general
assembly
specifically
saying
that
through
the
Judiciary
Committee,
we
should
be
researching
National
legislative
models
pertaining
to
child
access
prevention
and
safe
storage.
Obviously
we're
not
an
agency,
but
are
we?
Are
we
a
Miss?
Do
we
need
to
respond
according
to
the
law
that
relates
to
this
board.
G
Yes,
we're
not,
we
haven't
had
any
experience
with
that.
We
don't
know
exactly
what
the
interaction
was
between
the
panel
and
and
those
committees,
so
I'm,
not
at
Liberty.
G
H
H
G
That's
kind
of
one
of
the
reasons
we
had
that
recommendation,
that
procedures
should
be
in
place
so
that
then
there's
at
least
at
least
a
standardized
set
of
steps
to
go
through
whether
it
be
follow-up
calls
follow-up
letters,
something
so
that
you
know
at
least
we
can
say
what
the
panel
could
say
at
that
point.
G
We
took
these
steps,
you
know
so,
but
as
far
as
that
particular
instance,
I'm
not
exactly
sure
what
it
would
occurred.
J
Okay,
thank
you.
Mr
chairman,
ask
one
more
question
on
a
different
topic.
Sure
thank
you.
You
mentioned
that
three
of
the
six
vacancies
had
been
filled
in
July.
Can
you
tell
me
specifically
which
ones
have
been
filled
and
where
those
Secretary
of
State
appointments,
Attorney
General
by
leadership
in
the
general
assembly.
G
They
were
all
attorney
general
appointments.
There
were
actually
Four
appointments,
we
say
three
new
ones,
because
one
was
a
reappointment,
someone
who
was
already
on
the
committee,
so
okay.
A
K
K
We
don't
have
any
profound
response
to
the
report.
We
think
it's
really
good
report.
I
think
you
know,
there's
there's
one
issue.
That's
hanging
out
this
is
year,
two
I
figured
got
mentioned
twice.
It
must
be
serious.
We
will
update
our
mou
solely
because
I
don't
want
to
come
back
next
year
and
have
to
explain
to
Senator
Thomas
my
own
Senator.
Why
we
didn't
update
our
mou,
so
we
will
take
action
to
do
that
and
what
we
did
last
year
that
we
did
not
do
previously.
K
So
there's
no
surprises,
you
know
so
people
know
what's
going
on
I,
always
like
to
tell
people
these
are
all
volunteers
who
do
this
work,
with
the
exception
of
the
case
analysts
who
go
through
the
great
details
of
what
happens
to
kids
and
Miss
Mahoney,
we
do
now
have
an
epidemiologist,
so
I
think
the
recommendation
reporting
the
data
and
Reporting
will
be
much
better
because
we
have
access
to
to
expertise
in
that
area.
K
We
have
clerical
support
which
will
help
us
remain
on
task
and
do
our
job
seriously
and
pay
attention,
because
we
really
focus
on
cases
and
not
so
much
the
administrative
stuff.
That's
where
the
mou
kind
of
dropped
for
us
and
I've
told
folks,
I
told
Alicia
that,
if
need
be,
I'll,
do
the
mou
with
my
partner
on
the
right
and
just
so.
We
have
an
mou
I
think
it
is
important
to
know
what
the
expectations
and
we
don't
want
to.
You
know
not
take
that
seriously.
But
overall,
we
concur.
I.
Think
think.
K
The
real
message
for
me
is
the
work
of
the
panel
and
what
takes
place
when
I
started.
We
met
quarterly
for
about
five
hours
with
a
fairly
elaborate
launch.
We,
since
post-covered,
we
are
all
virtual.
We
meet
every
month
now,
four
hours
for
two
successive
months
and
all
day
the
third
month,
so
we
went
from
meeting
maybe
annually
20
hours
to
the
neighborhood
of
now,
maybe
16
48
64
hours,
so
our
work
has
escalated.
K
You
know
and
I
kind
of
do
this
work
for
a
living,
but
we
have
people
on
this
thing
on
the
panel
who
take
time
away
from
their
everyday
duties.
People
who
do
this
every
day
you
know
I,
didn't
know
there
was
such
a
thing
as
pediatric
forensic
medicine.
K
We
have
three
of
those
people
Senator
Douglas,
who
serve
on
the
panel.
This
is
what
they
do
every
day,
so
we
take
the
work
seriously.
I
tell
people
I
said
last
year
my
wife
knows
when
it's
child
fatality
day
because
it's
you
know
I
come
home
a
bit
more
tired
than
I.
Typically
do
so.
The
work
is
seriously.
We
we
enjoy
the
oversight
we
get
through
this
process
to
identify
things
we
need
to
do
better.
You
know
our
job
is
kind
of
look
at.
K
You,
but
we
again,
we
take
the
work
seriously.
We
want
to
do
it
well,
we
look
at
a
lot
of
cases,
so
this
review
for
us
I,
think
is,
is
useful.
It
makes
our
work
better.
Just
so
you
know,
we've
been
doing
this
I've
been
doing
this
for
a
long
time
now,
Mr
Mahoney's
been
here
at
the
beginning,
I
guess
right
very
soon,
close
27.
anyway,
substance
abuse
permeates
our
cases.
K
A
lot
of
cases
involving
individuals
who
have
a
history
of
substance
abuse
a
lot
of
cases
of
kids
who
take
their
parents,
Suboxones
medications,
this
treatment
just
laying
around
and
they
pick
it
up
and
eat
it.
You
know
it's
it's
problematic
this
past
year,
I
think
a
big
change
for
us
is
we're
seeing-
and
this
is
reference
in
the
report,
many
more
cases
involving
kids
with
diabetes.
K
We
didn't
have
those
cases
so
really
last
couple
of
years
who
aren't
managing
themselves
well,
whose
family
isn't
supportive
of
that
management.
You
know,
teenagers
are
hard.
They
don't
want
to
do
things
that
make
them
different
necessarily
unless
they
really
want
to
you
know,
so
they
don't
want
to
take
insulin.
They
don't
want
to
have
those
dietary
restrictions,
so
I
think
that's
a
new
thing
we're
seeing
we
had
not
seen
before.
K
We
got
to
figure
out
a
plan
of
safe
care.
We
got
a
lot
of
situations
where,
where
your
young
people
have
access
to
firearms
in
the
home
and
it's
you
know,
they're
they're
not
secured
they're
not
put
away
and
bad
things
happen.
I
think
this
again
is
probably
the
most
important
work.
I
I
do
I
think
it's
really.
Our
goal
is
to
identify
patterns,
activities
and
maybe
down
the
road.
You.
M
K
Prevent
some
of
those
things
change
the
trajectory
for
some
kids
lives
or
what
takes
place,
but
it's
it's
again
we're
looking
at
kids
who
have
died
in
state
custody,
kids,
who
are
in
harm
by
parents.
Paramours
I
said
that
before
speak
a
little
bit
of
French
Paramore
means
by
love,
there's
nothing
about
love
and
the
typical
pair
more
in
cases
we
see,
you
know,
there's
not
a
lot
of
love
there.
K
H
I
Blanton.
Thank
you.
Thank
you
all
for
your
response.
Thank
you
for
the
lrc
staff
and
their
hard
work.
I
appreciate
the
fact
that
you're
making
progress.
You
know
you
can't
do
things
overnight.
It
takes
a
while
to
digest
figure
out.
Sometimes
we're
really
looking
for
here,
whether
they're
wanting
right,
because
we
can't
read
one
another's
Minds.
G
I
It
takes
time
yeah
and
I
think
the
effort
has
been
shown
that
you're
working
to
achieve
what
has
been
asked
of
you
for
that
I
commend
you.
My
question
actually
is
going
to
go
off
basis
of
this.
What
we're
here
about
today,
but
since
we've
got
you
here
today,
I
don't
know
if
you
would
have
this
information
readily
available,
but
when
you
presented
to
us
I
believe
last
year
there
was
some
numbers.
We
talked
about
the
near
fatality
numbers
and
and
the
fatality
numbers
for
the
past
few
years.
I
I
K
K
D
K
C
Thank
you
Mr
chair
and
thank
you
Steve
for
all
the
fine
work
you
do
and-
and
you
show
up
every
day
when
we're
in
session,
to
make
sure
that
you
stay
on
track
and
stay
advised
to
everything
that
we
do
in
the
legislature.
I
see
you
every
day
and
I
really
admire
your
constant
diligence
there
I
want
to
follow
up
on
on
someone.
You
said
you've
answered
my
question
partially,
but
you
indicated
how
your
workload
has
increased.
C
You
know
over
time
and
I
remember
when
this
panel
was
created
by
the
the
previous
governor,
Bashir
and
I.
Remember
all
the
horror
stories.
We
were
here
in
the
state
that
led
up
to
the
Christians
panel
in
2013.
one
year
before
I
actually
came
here,
but
you
mentioned
that
the
part
of
the
reason
for
the
increased
work
that
you're
doing
over
time
has
been
because
of
more
diabetes
cases
involving
children
and
more
paramour
related
incidents
between
paramours
of
parents
and
children.
Are
there
any
other
reasons
other
than
those
two?
C
K
Just
related
parents,
kids
themselves
ingesting
extended
family
using
substances.
You
know
some
misusing
prescribed
medications,
Suboxone
prescribed
Medicaid
decision
treatment.
Using
that
inappropriately
it's
just
you
know.
Many
cases
is
multiple
different
substances.
People
are
are
using
it's
just
it.
It
really
is
it's
pervas.
It's.
F
L
L
N
Thank
you,
Mr
chair.
Thank
you
very
much
for
the
work
that
you
do
I'm
looking
through
here
and
I'm
I'm
just
wondering.
Is
there
any
additional
demographic
information?
That's
available?
That's
not
in
this
report.
Yes,.
K
N
E
K
Collect
it's
it's
four
categories
of
information
in
every
case
and
is
up
to
I
mean
how
many
variables
is
it?
It's
a
lot,
200
200,
something
variables.
L
K
We
have
living
arrangements,
we
have
age,
we
have
substance,
abuse
what
it
was.
We
have
a
variety
of
injuries.
You
know
another
one
that
comes
up.
You
know,
and
this
is
always
baffles
me.
A
blunt
force
trauma.
K
We
don't
know
who
did
it?
You
know,
you
know,
I'm
a
dad
got
a
wife,
you
know
baby.
You
know
three
of
us
at
home
bone
first
trauma
the
kid
didn't.
Do
it
themselves?
No
answer
to
that.
I
think
it's
really
hard,
so
I
think.
So
that's
the
type
of
thing
that
shows
up
motor
vehicle
accidents
are
reported.
That
shows
up
you
know,
so
so
there's
all
sorts
of
data.
We
can
provide
pretty
much
anything
you
could
think
of
we
track,
and
then
we
make
a
recommendation.
You
know
was
it
preventable?
K
Yeah
the
recommendations
and
that
sort
of
thing
other
agencies
comes
from
that
data
set
so
cases
that
that
are
new
to
us
things
that
we
review
and
see
that's
other
recommendations.
We
looked
at
a
lot
of
cases
over
the
last
two
or
three
years:
teen
suicide
or
attempted
suicide,
and
that's
where
there
was
a
recommendation
on
psychological
autopsy
and
really
what
happened?
You
know
was
there
something
we
miss
it's.
You
know
I'm,
not
a
doctor,
100
levels
to
tell
you,
but
but
you
know
you
do
an
autopsy
to
find
things
out.
K
This
is
a
psychological
autopsy.
Can
we
identify
in
in
kids
who
have
have
committed
suicide?
What
happened
right?
So
that's
the
recommendation
we
made
and
and
there's
like
someone
said,
there's
three
of
those
people
in
the
state
who
can
do
that
work
but
I
think
that's
came
from
the
data
that
we
saw
in
our
cases
and
every
case
we
do
an
elaborate
data
report
of
what's
captured,
contributing
factors
cause.
You
know
you
know
we
debate
what
was
the
cause
of
the
injury,
the
near
death
or
the
death,
so
yeah
there's,
there's
ample
data.
N
K
A
N
Did
you
determine
maybe
in
this
report
certain
trends
that
would
allow
you
to
Target,
or
these
things
might
happen.
K
We've
actually
had
conversations
before
and
people
encouraged
us
not
to
identify.
You
know,
primarily
if
I
remember
correctly
from
Criminal
Justice
perspective,
you
know
so
so
we
don't
include
that
data
of
where
it
takes
place.
We
have
it
by
dcbs
region.
L
O
K
We
identify
previous
history,
whether
you
know
in
in
my
time.
Sometimes
it's
three
generations
of
involvement
with
dcbs.
You
know
so.
Yes,
we
identify
that.
We
do
look
at
missed
opportunities.
You
know
we.
We
want
to
keep
a
positive
relationship
with
dcbs
to
be,
you
know,
participatory
collaborative
with
them,
not
accusatory.
So
we
look
at
those
missed
opportunities
and
quite
often
those
will
come
up.
This
was
a
missed
opportunity.
There
was
a
neighbor
who
said
something
afterwards
investigation.
They
were
suspicious
of
what
was
going
on
in
that
home.
K
That
was
a
missed
opportunity
for
the
neighbor
to
tell
somebody
beforehand
that
might
have
prevented
it.
Cases
where,
where
there
may
have
been
a
change
in
a
key
person
in
the
family
that
didn't
get
handed
off
well,
so
yeah,
we
look
at
those
missed
opportunities
and
try
to
identify
what
those
are
to
minimize.
What
and
there's
some
number
of
those
that
we
have.
Oh.
K
L
That
is
certified
by
a
physician.
It's
a
statutory
definition.
K
L
It
really
depends
on
on
the
case
with
some
of
these
cases.
The
child
may
not
be
symptomatic
until
24
hours
later
and
then
they're
brought
to
an
emergency
department
and
the
there
was
a
you
know.
The
results
are
come
in
that
there
was
a
pediatric
abuse
of
head
trauma.
Then
you
have
to
go
back
and
determine
who
was
the
child
caregiver
during
the
last
24
to
48
hours
and
from
there
it
gets
a
little
confusing.
You
don't
know
if
that
child
was
at
a
daycare
for
half
the
day
or
with
this
parent.
L
O
L
Is
where
we
track
missed
opportunities
so
and
in
a
lot
of
those
cases
we
would
call.
Let's
say
if
there
was
law
enforcement
involved.
If
they
did
not
conduct
a
thorough
investigation,
we
would
call
that
a
missed
law
enforcement
opportunity
and
that's
where
we
would
go
back
in
from
a
prevention
standpoint.
We
need
to
increase
their
training,
you
know
they.
They
really
need
to
be
working
closer
with
medical
providers
to
maybe
try
to
develop
a
better
timeline
or
interview
and
how
they
interview
the
the
suspect.
L
D
D
My
question
is
on
the
Education
and
Training.
You
all
do.
I
know
you
reach
out
I
think
it
mentions
the
corners
in.
D
The
Kentucky
State
Police
are
implementing
this
as
well.
What
what
is
like
the
scope
of
your
your
training
like
who,
who
all
do
you
reach
out
to
local
police
departments?
Is
it
mostly
just
the
state
police
coroners?
And
then
what
is
the
reception
you
all
get
on
the
training?
That's
provided
I.
L
Will
say
most
of
the
training
that
the
panel
does
it's
zombie,
the
members
that
are
a
part
of
this
this
panel
are
the
ones
that
take
on
that
training.
So
for
coroners
we
have
Department.
We
have
at
least
two
members
from
the
Department
from
public
health.
They
take
back
what
we
talk
about
at
the
panel
and
they
conduct
the
training.
So
it's
not
like
we've
put
together
the
training
from
a
panel
perspective,
but
we
do
partner
with
those
agencies
to
help
them.
L
You
know,
conduct
the
training
same
with
Doc
JT
I
will
say:
that's
that
that's
where
the
difficulty
lies
with
making
some
of
these
recommendations
you
know.
Historically,
they
were.
They
said
we
were
not
identifying
responding
agencies.
We
would
make
recommendations
such
as
law
enforcement
in
general,
but
when
we're
making
a
recommendation
to
a
specific
agency,
let's
say
KSP
or
doc,
JT
on
training
we're
not
including
Lexington's
training
or
Louisville's
local
metros
training.
L
So
there
are
so
many
different
entities
out
there
that
are
available
or
potentially
could
benefit
from
these,
and
that's
where
we
said
we're
just
trying
to
continue
to
grow
and
develop
and-
and
you
know,
I
really
do
think
Jerry
and
his
staff
are
really
helping
us
along
the
way
to
try
to
get
this
developed
and
for
legislative
support
on
Senate
Bill
97
I
mean
that's
I.
Think
that's
going
to
be
huge
for
us
just
getting
in
and
talking
with
these
agencies.
Good.
D
Deal,
thank
you
and
one
more
quick
question
budget
question
looks
like
420.
000
a
year
is,
what's
been
allocated
many
of
those
years
that
that
amount
was
not
fully
used.
The
unused
funds.
Where
did
those
go
back
to
the
Justice
cabinet?
Do
they
go
back
to
the
general
fund
how's
that.
M
D
M
So
if
you're
looking
at
our
budget,
you
would
see
that
remaining
amount
laps
back.
We
don't
really
anticipate
that
for
this
year,
I
think,
as
they've
mentioned,
we've
brought
on.
You
know:
part-time
administrative
help
the
epidemiologist
through
contract
to
assist
with
some
of
this,
as
well
as
some
additional
cot
costs
to
kind
of
keep
that
SharePoint
system
up
and
running.
So
we
think
we're
going
to
probably
really
strategically
use
all
of
that
420
this
year.
Okay,.
D
M
We've
started
work
and
I've
been
at
the
panel,
the
last
few
panel
meetings
to
talk
about.
You
know
what
did
we
do
last
year
and
what
they
would
like
to
to
ask
for
in
the
in
the
biennial
budget
and
still
working
collaboratively
on
that.
We
have
a
draft,
but
it's
definitely
not
going
to
be
submitted
without
their
input
and
approval.
M
K
M
I
Get
that
but
and
I
know
this
was
some
of
it
was
just
examples
being
laid
out,
but
for
somebody
who's
been
in
the
real
world
and
the
real
experiences
of
these
things.
You
know
we
do
a
lot
of
things
in
our
laws.
I
Quite
frankly,
I
would
suggest
in
the
protection
of
those
who
are
committing
crimes
that
we
don't
think
about
until
it's
child
involved,
but
we're
sitting
here
talking
about
an
example
of
two
adults,
a
mother
and
a
father
and
a
child
blunt
force
trauma.
We
can't
prove
who
did
it?
What
does
the
laws
tell
us?
They
can
interview
them,
they
can't
force
and
take
a
polygraph.
It's
not
admissible.
They
can't
waterboard
them
make
them
tell
the
truth.
I
You
ain't
gonna,
find
a
prosecutor,
that's
going
to
indict
both
of
them
and
bring
them
before
a
jury
and
say:
okay,
you
all
figure
out
which
one
did
it.
That's
not
going
to
make
it.
That's
not
going
to
make
it
and
so
we're
talking
about
very
unfortunate
events,
but
we
also
got
to
look
at
our
legal
system
and
the
way
it's
set
up.
Somebody
ought
to
pay
for
the
death
of
these
innocent
children,
but
when
we
do
all
this
stuff,
there's
unintended
consequences
and
some
of
these
things
this
is
unintended
consequences.
I
It
prevents
us
from
carrying
out
the
punishment
for
that
child
that
didn't
deserve
that
everybody
did
everything
they
could
to
try
to
prove
it
right.
But
again
we
can't
make
them
talk,
there's
no
physical
evidence,
it
happens
and
then
we
get
upset
when
we
hear
about
a
child
and
sue
people
in
a
room.
Somebody
knows
what
happened
to
that
child
one
of
the
two
knew
or
they
both
were
involved.
What
happened
to
that
child?
I
But
we
can't
force
them
to
tell
us
and
that's
the
world
we
live
in
and
that's
reality.
There's
no
blame
to
place
on
any
of
you
all.
There's
no
plane!
Bang
blame
to
pla
place
on
the
cabinet
law
enforcement.
The
blame
goes
with
the
one
who
did
it,
but
we
can't
prove
who
did
it
and
we
have
to
live
with
that.
So
every
time
we
talk
about
Criminal,
Justice
Reform,
every
time
we
talk
about
these
things.
I
E
Not
really,
sir
okay
go
ahead.
I
I
just
want
to
thank
you
all
for
being
here
today
and
and
being
in
that
seat,
and
no
one
appreciates
what
it's
like
being
in
that
being
in
that
seat.
The
way
you
all
do
you
know
we're
looking
at
an
issue
here
where
one
of
the
things
we
seldom
talk
about
is
citizen
compliance.
We
talk
a
lot
about
system
compliance,
but
we
don't
talk
a
lot
about
citizen
compliance.
We
don't
talk
about
the
degradation
of
our
family
structures.
E
We
don't
talk
about
the
multiple
child
care
providers
and
we
often
don't
talk
enough
about
the
multiple
environmental
and
social
issues
that
those
child
care
providers
and
the
pressures
that
those
child
care
providers
are
having
having
to
deal
with
and
I
just
wanted
to
say
that
you
know
this
is
not
a
perfect
system
and
even
if
you
had
a
perfect
system,
you
couldn't
resolve
this
because
the
system
can
only
handle
what
the
system
has.
The
system
doesn't
deal
with
our
citizen
compliance
I,
just
I
just
wanted
to.
Thank
you
all
for
being
up
here
today.
A
Any
further
questions
I
had
I
did
have
one
question:
do
you
all
have
any
sort
of
statistic
or
number
of
children
who
may
have
been
removed
from
their
homes
and
then
placed
back
into
the
same
home
that
either
are
near
fatality
or
fatality.
A
Do
you
have,
can
you
trace,
though,
whether
or
not
that
child
has
been
previously
removed
and
then.