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A
Co-Chair
Meade
co-chair
Rocky
Adams
here
all
right.
Thank
you
and
gosh.
It
seems,
like
you
know,
middle
of
October.
There
are
so
many
things
going
on
in
everyone's
districts
back
home,
so
I
am
very
grateful
that
we
were
able
to
have
this
meeting
first
of
all
and
second
of
all,
for
the
presenters
being
willing
to
accommodate
a
change
in
time.
A
So
thank
you
very
much
for
your
willingness
to
participate
today,
because
we
do
have
some
good
stuff
to
talk
about
I'm,
going
to
go
a
little
bit
out
of
order
because
the
kinship
care
in
Kentucky
update
they
have
a
time
constraint,
and
so,
if
we
could
have
Norma
and
Shannon
head
on
up
to
the
table,
welcome
first
of
all,
and
then
please
introduce
yourselves
for
the
record
and
we
look
forward
to
your
testimony.
B
So
thanks
for
for
having
us
today,
and
we
really
appreciate
the
opportunity
to
talk
about
what
we
know
about
kinship
care
in
Kentucky
and
what
we're
hearing
and
seeing
so
just
as
a
quick
refresher
when
we
talk
about
kinship
care,
there's
oftentimes
confusion
about
what
that
means.
A
lot
of
that
is
related
to
the
old
kinship
CARE
program
in
2013
that
where
the
moratorium
was
placed
on
that,
but
when
we're
talking
about
kinship
care
overall
in
Kentucky
we're
talking
about
three
types,
one
is
related
to
informal
kinship
care.
B
This
is
the
the
most
frequent
situation
and
I'll
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
data
and
who's
involved
in
that.
But
informal
kinship
care
includes
those
situations
where
parents
oftentimes
are
arranging
a
a
situation
where
the
child
is
being
cared
for
by
a
relative
or
close
family
friend
on
their
own
no
department
for
community-based
services.
Involvement
at
all
again,
this
is
the
majority
and
you'll
see
that
in
the
data
in
the
next
slide,
kinship
care
effective
can
care,
which
I
think
is
probably
what
we'll
be
focusing
on
for
the
most
part.
B
Today
is
those
children
who
are
placed
with
relatives
or
close
family
friends
or
fictive
kin
as
a
result
of
the
investigation
or
removal
due
to
dependency,
neglect
and
abuse,
where
there
is
department
for
community-based
services,
involvement
and
custody
of
the
child
is
either
maintained
by
the
relative
or
by
the
department
for
Cabinet
for
Health
and
Family
Services,
and
then
relative
foster
care
is
another
type
of
kinship
care,
and
this
is
a
more
formal
setting
where
you
have
the
Cabinet
for
Health
and
Family
Services
or
department
for
community-based
services
involved.
B
A
child
is
placed
with
a
relative
or
close
family
friend,
and
it's
done
so
formally
in
a
foster
care
type
setting,
but
with
a
relative
and
then
just
really
quickly.
As
of
the
most
recent
data
that
we
have
been
able
to
accumulate,
there
are
about
59,
000
children,
living
living
informally
and
formally
with
relatives
and
close
family
friends.
A
majority
of
these
children
are
living
with
grandparents,
some
of
them
great
grandparents,
but
that
is
from
the
the
most
current
census
data
that
we
have
been
able
to
access
and
what
I
will
tell
you
is.
B
B
What
we
also
know
is
that
there
are
children
who
are
living
in
that
that
kinship
care
or
infectivekin
setting
due
to
engagement
with
child
protective
services.
We
have
not
been
able
to
access
current
data
and
I'll
talk
about
why
a
little
bit
later,
but
there
is
there's
estimates
of
around
15
000
children
being
raised
by
relatives
and
kind
of
that
more
formal
setting,
and
then
we
also
have
as
of
October,
956,
kids
in
or
946
kids
in
relative
foster
care.
C
So
there's
been
a
lot
of
progress
made
over
the
years
and
just
to
kind
of
highlight
some
of
these.
You
know.
In
2014
we
had
the
caregiver
kinship
caregiver
authorization
affidavit,
which
allowed
relatives
to
have
a
form,
so
they
could
make
medical
and
educational
decisions.
We
had
a
kinship
hotline
established
and
hosted
by
dcbs
child
care
assistance
was
a
huge
one
for
a
lot
of
kinship
families
and
they
didn't
have
to
pay,
have
a
copay
and
their
income
considerations
were
not
a
big
factor
to
get
this
benefit.
C
Regulations
change
for
relative
placement
benefits
support
so
that
they
could
receive
that
electronically.
Instead
of
through
you
know,
snail
mail
and
all
of
the
the
long
bureaucracy
channels,
hb1
included
language,
so
that
you
know
we
had
more
kinship
support
legal
access
to
de
facto
custodians
and
hb2
in
2019,
with
the
service
array
and
a
collection
of
reporting
data
around
kinship
care
2019-2021
we
had
dcbs
Kentucky
faces.
This
is
when
Family
First
really
kicked
into
gear
and
there
were
more
options
as
far
as
kinship
foster.
C
You
know
fictive
Ken
in
the
in
those
areas
and
then,
of
course,
University
of
Kentucky
kinship
Resource.
Center
in
2021.
now
I
didn't
say
this
when
I
introduced
myself
earlier
I
am
president
of
the
kinship
families
Coalition
of
Kentucky,
and
the
reason
that
I
became
an
advocate
for
so
many
families
across
the
state
is
because
in
2014
my
two
granddaughters
were
put
into
the
system
and
it
did
not
work
the
way
it
needed
to.
They
went
straight
to
foster
care.
C
We've
come
a
long
long
way
and
I
can
tell
you
that
when
I
first
started
walking
these
halls
and
trying
to
meet
with
the
legislators
back,
then
the
majority
of
them
didn't
know
what
kinship
care
was,
or
they
thought
they
knew
what
it
was,
and
that's
not
what
it
was
at
all
and
now
I
can
tell
you
that
pretty
much
you
can
walk
the
halls
and
every
legislator
knows
I
mean
talk
about.
Hb1
talk
about
hb2,
look
at
the
things
that
are
happening.
C
B
This
committee
has
been
essential
to
making
that
progress,
especially
after
Hospital
one
established
this
committee,
but
then
in
subsequent
years,
related
to
a
look
at
fictive
kin,
as
well
as
some
of
those
increase
in
the
service
array.
So
we
really
appreciate
the
work
that
has
happened
so
what
Norma
had
alluded
to
related
to
some
of
the
changes
that
we
still
need
to
see.
I
want
to
give
just
a
quick
overview
of
something
that
the
kinship
families
Coalition
has
done.
B
B
There
are
still
questions
about
it,
so
we
we
hosted
that
Focus,
the
five
focus
groups
and
interviews
and
what
we
still
heard
was
there
was
an
improvement
in
access
to
Services.
People
are
starting
to
recognize
that
services
are
available,
especially
Financial
Services
across
the
board.
What
we
heard
was
that
there
is
a
real
need
for
improved
communication
from
the
Department
for
community-based
services,
as
well
as
other
agencies
that
support
the
the
relative,
caregivers
and
and
their
children
in
some
capacity.
B
There
is
an
urgent
need
for
Behavioral
Health
supports
you're,
also
going
to
hear
that
from
Michelle
Sanborn
for
our
relative
caregivers,
who
don't
necessarily
always
know
how
to
navigate
the
system
of
Behavioral
Health
supports
it's
really
essential
because
you
have
kids
who
have
experienced
trauma
who
are
healing
from
that
trauma
or
or
potentially
just
experience,
the
the
adverse
effects
of
that
and
are
really
in
need
of
Behavioral
Health
supports
another
identified
need
within
these
conversations
is
around
legal
supports
a
lot
of
our
relative
infective.
B
Can
caregivers
don't
know
how
to
navigate
the
legal
system
and
oftentimes?
They
are
not
Child
Protective
Services
involved,
so
they
don't
have
somebody
there
to
help
them
navigate
that
either,
and
they
are
often
looking
for
ways
to
one
make
sure
that
they
can
make.
You
know
those
medical
and
legal
or
medical
and
education
decisions,
but
then
also,
if
they're,
looking
to
pursue
a
more
permanent
situation
as
far
as
custody
goes.
They
need
to
know
how
to
navigate
that
as
well
again.
Ongoing
Financial
supports
is,
is
always
a
need.
B
You
have
a
lot
of
relative
caregivers
who
are
grandparents,
who
are
on
a
fixed
income
taking
in
kids,
who
are
growing
up
and
eating
more
and
needing
new
shoes
and
and
all
of
that
and
then
continued
access
to
training.
We
heard
from
our
relative
caregivers
that
they
need
to
know
what
to
anticipate
when
raising
kids
now,
as
opposed
to
20
or
30
years
ago.
It
looks
very
different
with
technology
with
the
requirements
for
schools,
with
a
lot
of
other
things
that
they
need
to
navigate.
B
They
need
training
around
that,
as
well
as
training
on
how
to
mitigate
the
impacts
of
the
trauma
that
the
children
experience.
There
was
also
a
lot
of
discussion
around
how
to
navigate
the
parent,
grandparent
or
parent
relative
scenario
as
well,
because
that
is
just
a
tricky
relationship
to
to
navigate
and
then
we've
also
been
getting
calls
like.
I
had
mentioned
around
just
better
understanding
the
system
navigating
the
system.
B
We
have
folks
reach
out
to
the
kinship
Coalition
that
think
we're
the
department
for
community-based
services,
sometimes
asking
for
status
updates
on
their
on
their
benefits
and
support,
so
we
are
often
directing
them
to.
Thankfully,
the
Kentucky
faces
program,
which
has
been
a
great
benefit.
B
So
we
came
here
with
some
recommendations
to
consider,
as
as
you
all
continue
to
dig
in
further
around
kinship
care.
Relative
care
supports
Norma's,
going
to
talk
about
a
couple
of
these,
but
I
did
want
to
talk
about
a
a
really
clear
opportunity
that
we
have
been
not
ignoring
necessarily
as
a
state
but
haven't
shown
a
whole
lot
of
priority
around,
which
is
the
guardianship
assistance
program
which
has
been
available
from
the
federal
government
since
2008.
B
There
are
40,
States,
10
tribes
and
the
depart
our
District
of
Columbia,
as
well
as
Puerto
Rico
and
the
Virgin
Islands,
who
take
advantage
of
the
guardianship
assistance
program.
It's
a
title,
IV
reimbursable
program.
B
Obviously
there
are
some
State
dollars
that
would
need
to
be
committed
as
well,
but
it
allows
for
relative
caregivers
who
have
cust,
who
are
taking
kids
into
a
foster
care
situation,
and
it
allows
for
them
to
access
funds
after
the
six
months
are
up
so
that
when
they
move
into
permanent
custody,
they
can
still
get
some
of
those
financial
supports
that
are
often
available
to
foster
parents
as
well.
So,
just
looking
for
some
Equity
related
to
foster
care
and
kinship
care.
C
So
I
wanted
to
highlight
three
three
main
topics
that
come
from
this
and
the
first
one
is
the
Kentucky
Transitional
Assistance,
Program
or
ktap.
C
So
that
is
a
program
that
is
very
much
appreciated,
but
what's
happening
with
a
lot
of
the
in
this
case
grandparents
that
I'm
talking
to
is
that
just
kind
of
put
in
this
perspective
you
had
no
notice
all
of
a
sudden
you're
taking
in
five
kids.
You
are
single
you're
you're
on
disability,
your
income.
You
did
not
plan
any
of
that.
That's
pretty
much!
C
What
we
know
happens
with
a
lot
of
Kenshin
families
that
are
out
there
is
no
planning,
and
but
you
do
what
you
have
to
do
to
take
care
of
family,
so
they
go
and
they
apply
for
ktab
and
what's
happening
is
that
there
is
a
child
support
component
that
that
kind
of
hangs
them
up.
They
have
to
acknowledge
that
if
the
biological
parents
don't
pay
child
support
that
they
could
lose
their
K-Town
well
to
me
that
doesn't
make
sense
it
is.
C
It
is
seriously
impacting
a
lot
of
families
because
you're
low
income
to
get
k-tap
in
the
first
place.
So
you
don't
have
a
lot
of
resources.
You
already
have
less
resources
because
you're
taking
on
all
these
kids
up
front-
and
you
may
you
know-
there's
all
these
unplanned-
that
unplanned
things
that
you
need
to
do
and
you
can't
focus
on
taking
care
of
the
kids,
because
you're
worrying
month
to
month
are
the
biological
parents
going
to
make
their
child
support
payments
or
not
and
am
I
going
to
have
this
income
next
month.
C
Foster
families
don't
have
to
worry
about
this.
They
get
to
do
what
they're
supposed
to
do,
which
is
focus
on
the
kids
and
navigate
the
system,
the
way
that
it
needs
to
be
done.
They
don't
have
any
other
burdens
of
other
people
that
they
can't
control.
Can
you
know
confusingness
and
complicating
things
and
I?
C
The
income
levels
I
believe
with
where
ktap
is
I,
think
it's
four
kids
to
get
to
300
now
think
about
that
I've
had
Parents
I've
had
grandparents
specifically
tell
me
this.
The
money
that
they
would
make
in
a
year
for
four
kids
is
probably
less
than
a
retainer
fee
for
an
attorney
to
go
chase
down
the
biological
parents
and
to
take
this
on
and
to
get
that
reinstated
and
they
give
up
and
that
to
me
defeats
the
whole
purpose
of
what
this
program
is
about
and
it
hurts
the
kids
in
the
long
run.
C
The
second
one
Shannon
talked
about
the
guardian
guardianship
assistance
program
so
think
about
this.
You've
got
families
out
there
that
are
electing
the
Foster
kinship
option,
and
that
is
huge
for
them
and
they
are
taking
care
of
the
kids
while
they're
in
the
system.
But
as
soon
as
custody
is
reached,
the
door
slams
shut.
You
might
could
go
to
k-tap,
which
is
way
low
compared
to
what
it
was
before.
C
But
what
they're
receiving
today
and
there's
nothing
else,
and
there
are
states
out
there
that
are
doing
this
kind
of
program
and
I
think
what
we
need
to
do
is
think
about
long
term
if
you've
got
a
four-year-old
and
you're
in
the
system
for
two
years
and
so
that
child
is
six
years
old.
What
are
you
going
to
do
to
raise
that
child
from
age
6
to
18.?
C
There's,
not
a
lot
of
support
there
and
I
just
feel
like,
while
we're
grateful
for
the
the
fact
that
we
have
the
foster
foster
option
out
there.
It
drops
it
just
drops
like
a
hot
potato
and
there's
nothing
else,
and
it's
like
sorry.
The
case
is
closed.
You
figure
it
out
from
there
and
long
term
we're
draining
other
resources
that
grandmother
that's
out
there,
that
is
in
her
60s
living
on
Social
Security.
C
Also
going
to
be
pulling
from
the
system
and
I
think
if
we
start
looking
at
some
of
these
potential
opportunities,
long-term
families
are
just
going
to
be
a
lot
better
and
then
the
last
one
Falls
around
communication
I
have
helped
several
grandparents
with
this
and
I
still
hear
that
it
is
a
problem,
though
it
is
getting
better,
so
a
grandmother,
she
got
a
phone
call
from
dcbs
and
in
this
particular
case
her
grandson
had
also
been
in
a
home
where
there
was
meth
and
the
social
worker
comes
to
her
and
she's
distressed
because
she's
first
hearing
about
this
and
she
gets
a
form-
and
it
says
what
she's
basically
told
is
you
can
take
custody
of
your
grandchild
or
the
state
will
take
custody
of
the
grandchild.
C
That's
all
she
heard
the
form
had
three
three
I
think
it's
three
options
on
there
so
immediately
she
said:
I
don't
want
the
state
to
take
my
grandchild,
so
she
checked
the
box
that
I'll
take
that
temporary
custody
and
then
she
found
out
a
couple
of
days
later
after
she
got
the
child
settled.
She
dealt
with
the
medical
pieces
that
felt
with
taking
care
of
that
child
because
of
the
exposure
to
meth,
and
then
she
finds
out.
B
Thanks
Dharma
the
last
the
last
two
are
related
to
a
pathway
for
respite
care.
Again,
just
looking
at
the
access
that
foster
parents
have
related
to
supports,
making
sure
that
we
also
have
respite
care
supports
for
our
relative
infective
skin
caregivers,
who
are
doing
the
same
job
playing
the
same
role.
B
Oftentimes
are
more
stressed
older
and
have
more
challenges.
They
are
in
need
of
respite
care
and
then
finally,
they're
in
in
House
Bill
2
of
2019.
B
There
was
a
option
to
create
a
report
for
kinship
placements
upon
request
of
I.
Believe
it
was
this
committee
we
saw
one
in
2020
and
what
I
would
love
to
see
and
recommend
is
we
need
to
continue
to
know
and
understand
the
data
so
that
we
can
adequately
support
the
relative
caregivers
in
in
Kentucky,
and
we
don't
have
access
to
that
right
now.
B
C
And
I
just
want
to
add,
there
was
a
Senator
that
I
talked
to
a
couple
of
years
ago
before
this
report
was
a
requirement
and
when
I
was
asking
for
some
more
services
and
assistance,
what
they
said
was
basically
well.
If
you
don't
have
how
much
it's
going
to
cost,
which
means,
if
you
don't
have
the
numbers,
I
can
help
you,
and
so
we
really
do
need
those
numbers.
A
Answer
them.
Thank
you
very
much,
and
you
know
it
was
interesting
because
I
was
you
got
to
it,
but
that
was
one
of
the
things
I
wanted
to
follow
up
on.
Is
the
report
from
house
bill
2.
B
Was
a
report
that
came
out
in
2020,
okay,
not
released
to
the
public
necessarily
but
provided
to
the
to
the
appropriate
committees
that
were
identified
in
the
the
statute,
but
having
some
more
consistent
access
to
those
numbers
for
you
all
and
for
for
folks
who
are
interested
in
seeing
seeing
those
numbers
and
also
advocating
for
what
needs
to
happen
is
really
important.
So
just
a
recommendation
that,
like
I,
don't
know
if
I
think
every
year
is
probably
too
much
and
potentially
a
burden
for
dcbs.
B
But
having
having
those
numbers
on
a
regular
basis
would
be
beneficial.
A
A
B
It's
that
child
support
component
is
on
the
federal
level.
I
think
the
the
hope
is
to
not
put
that
burden
directly
onto
relative
caregivers
to
pursue
it.
It
would
be
to
have
potentially
another
entity
pursue
that
child
support,
because
not
only
does
it
cause
a
burden
to
access
attorneys,
but
also
just
the
relationship
between
the
birth
parent
and
the
caregiver
gets
strained
pretty
significantly
as
well.
Okay,.
A
Thank
you.
This
is
very
enlightening.
I
love
the
update
and
thank
you
for
what
you
all
do
in
this
space,
because
it's
super
important
and
it's
the
most
economical
way,
but
we
have
to
do
a
better
job
of
supporting
the
families
that
are
participating
in
this.
Does
anybody
have
any
questions
before
we
move
on
to
the
next
one?
Okay,
thank
you.
Thank
you
and
as
Terry
Brooks
and
Shannon
you're
staying
we're
going
to
go
through
the
presentation
on
the
kids
count,
Data
Book.
A
Let
me
go
ahead
and
take
up
the
approval
of
the
minutes
from
the
September
14
2022
meeting
do
I
have
a
motion
to
approve
the
minutes.
All
right,
I
have
a
motion
in
a
second
all,
those
in
favor
signify
by
saying
aye
any
opposed
all
right.
The
minutes
are
approved
all
right.
Welcome.
We
have
the
thank
you
famous
Terry
Brooks
at
the
table.
D
A
D
Good
morning
I'm
Terry
Brooks,
with
Kentucky
youth
Advocates
and
last
year
she
was
Madam
chair.
She
was
Shannon.
University
of
Kentucky
has
now
told
me
that
she's
now
Dr
Moody.
So
just
so
we
just
so.
We
know
that
thanks
so
much
for
the
time.
I
also
really
appreciate
you
hearing
the
kinship
report.
Y'all
have
heard
me
say:
Judy
and
I
have
eight
grandkids.
D
Five
were
at
our
house
on
Sunday
all
representative
Raymond's
constituents,
and
that
was
for
fun
and
I
was
exhausted
by
the
end
of
the
afternoon,
so
that
notion
of
respite
care
can't
be
emphasized
enough.
We
really
appreciate
you
guys
taking
time
to
think
about
our
kids
count
report.
D
Some
of
you,
the
chairperson
for
sure,
has
heard
about
kids
count
enough
that
she
could
probably
do
the
presentation,
but
I
do
think
it's
important
that
we
that
we
make
sure
we're
all
on
the
same
page
so
before
we
get
into
the
data
and
implications
I
want
to
take
just
a
moment
and
remind
you
guys
what
kids
count
is
over
30
years
ago,
when
UPS
began
becoming
a
philanthropic
Force,
they
started
asking
questions
about
the
state
of
kids,
Across
America
and
what
they
heard
were
plenty
of
opinions,
anecdotes
and
stories.
D
What
they
did
not
have
was
Data.
If
you
know
anything
about
UPS,
you
know
that
they
are
not
interested
in
data.
They
are
obsessed
by
data.
They
really
want
to
know
how
long
that
package
card
driver
takes
to
get
from
his
or
her
vehicle
to
your
front,
porch
back
back
to
the
vehicle
and
on
the
road,
so
UPS
as
corporate
folks
designated
one
of
their
philanthropic
arms,
the
Anna
E
Casey
Foundation
to
essentially
invent
a
report
card
on
America's
kids.
The
next
thing
they
did
was
approached
a
group
in
each
state,
and
that
varies.
D
D
Casey
puts
out
in
June
they
put
out
the
national
report
that
really
says
where
Kentucky
ranks
on
on
in
four
domains:
Health
economic
well-being,
education
and
community
and
family.
They
do
four
indicators
on
each
of
those,
so
you
have
a
16
item
report
card
and
we
know
not
only
which
items
we're
improving
in
or
declining
in,
but
we
also
know
how
we
compare
to
other
states
when
I.
Look
at
that
National
report,
I,
don't
know
about
you.
D
Think
I'm
hoping
each
of
you
have
County
profiles
for
the
counties
that
you
represent,
so
you
should
be
able
to
look
at
your
counties
or
count
County
or
counties
and
see
how
they
compare
to
Kentucky
and
how
they
compare
to
the
nation
so
just
want
to
make
sure
we're
all
on
the
same
page
as
to
what
that
is
in
terms
of
a
quick
overview
of
where
we
stand
this
year
nationally.
In
terms
of
improvements
and
declines,
you
can
see
that
those
are
the
16
indicators.
D
You
can
see
that
overall
we
have
a
lot
of
indicators
where
we're
doing
better
than
we
did
previously
and
we
have
other
indicators
where
we
see
a
decline.
The
thing
that
I
would
caution
you
about,
and
you
already
know
this
is
in
every
one
of
those
indicators.
There's
actually
good
news
and
bad
news.
I'll
take
that
first,
one
because
I've
always
had
a
hypothesis
that
unless
and
until
we
address
childhood
poverty,
nothing
else
matters.
We
know
that
economic
well-being
so
impacts
Health
outcomes,
education
achievement.
D
So
you
look
at
that
and
we
need
to
celebrate.
There
is
no
question
that
we
need
to
celebrate
that
we're
on
a
four
or
five
year,
trajectory
of
a
decline
in
childhood
poverty
And.
Yet
when
there
are
a
quarter
of
a
million
kids
in
Kentucky
today
who
live
in
poverty,
we
can't
celebrate
where
we
are
the
other
area
that
each
of
these
represent
and
again
I'm
going
to
use
poverty,
as
just
one
example
is,
is
if
the
general
assembly
is
serious
about
disparities
digging
into
those
data
points
provide
remarkable
information
as
an
example.
D
The
typical
County
in
Kentucky
has
an
18
percent
childhood
poverty
rate.
What
fascinates
me
is
that
the
sixth
poorest
counties
in
Kentucky,
sixth
Southeast
Appalachian
counties
and
the
six
lowest
income
census
tracts
in
Louisville,
so
the
most
Urban
and
the
most
rural
communities
in
our
state.
They
have
identical
poverty
rates
at
40
percent,
so
you
know
where
I
go
on
that,
which
is
that
policy
solutions.
For
instance,
when
it
comes
to
Childhood,
poverty
are
just
as
applicable
in
urban
areas
and
rural
areas.
The
solutions
can
find
a
common
ground.
D
So
again
we
would
be
happy
because
I
think
the
chairperson
has
asked
us
to
limit
this.
To
four
hours
we
can
we
can
go
into
each
data
point,
but
I
just
want
to
highlight
that
any
of
these
that
you're
interested
in
as
a
committee
or
individually.
We
are
happy
to
talk
to
you
about
it.
We
do
an
analysis
of
all
16
data
points
with
policy
implications,
and
we
also
look
really
hard
at
what
other
states
are
doing
to
address
each
of
these
areas.
D
So
what
I
mean
you
all
get
a
voluminous
amount
of
data
and
a
voluminous
number
of
reports
and
I
am
very
aware
that
if
all
we
do
is
talk
to
you
about
numbers,
they
sit
on
your
shelves.
They
sit
on
my
shelf
at
least,
and
so
so
we
understand
that
it's
really
important
really
important
to
think
about
this.
So
what
I
would
suggest
to
you
that
there's
two
particular
applications
that
that
I
would
respectfully
request
you
consider
one
is
the
potential
for
local
action.
One
of
the
things
that
we
we
do.
D
A
lot
is
county-based
kids,
count
conversations.
We
in
fact
recently
just
finished
an
eight
County
tour.
We
started
in
Paducah
and
we
wound
up
in
Manchester
in
each
of
those
places.
We
had
legislative
leadership,
County
judges,
superintendents,
police,
Chiefs,
preachers,
policemen,
Community
Advocates,
and
we
dug
into
that.
County's
kids
count
data
of
really
what
what
are
the
priorities.
What
could
we
do?
D
What
are
actionable
items
and
I'm
probably
going
to
get
in
trouble
with
my
KY
colleagues
for
saying
it,
but
if,
if
we
always
say
to
any
lawmaker,
if
you're
interested
in
a
kids
conversation
in
in
your
District
as
long
as
you
provide
the
coffee,
we'll
be
there
and
we
would
love
to
be
able
to
to
engage
you
in
this
I
want
to
just
highlight
one
example,
and
that
example
is
in
Barron
County.
The
the
folks
in
Barron
County
really
put
together
a
robust
county
level.
D
Kids
count
conversation
I
just
want
to
give
you
this
as
an
illustration,
not
necessarily
what
you
would
do.
The
first
thing
that
we
at
Kya
did
was.
We
were
able
to
generate
a
foundation
support
for
the
community
at
around
twenty
five
thousand
dollars.
So
we
did
not
want
folks
to
come
together
and
just
talk
about
it.
We
wanted
to
say
that
if
you
come
up
with
a
plan
we'll
help
you
implement
it,
a
local
business
leader
actually
raised
a
local
match.
D
So
we
walked
into
that
Summit
with
fifty
thousand
dollars
on
the
table
of
discretionary
money
for
Barron
County,
as
they
dug
into
the
data
they
they
came
together
rather
quickly
and
as
a
County
wanted
to
focus
on
family
reunification.
D
They
ran
the
numbers.
They
literally
implemented
A
Five-Year
Plan,
where
they
knew
that
in
order
to
improve
by
this
percentage,
they
had
to
reunify
52
kids
in
the
county
a
year
to
reach
their
goal.
The
first
expenditure
of
that
fifty
thousand
dollars
was
seemingly
every
faith-based
community
in
the
in
the
county,
gave
out
t-shirts
with
the
number
52
on
them.
On
a
on
a
Sunday.
D
The
last
time
we
had
a
Children's
Advocacy
day
in
person
in
Frankfurt,
Barron
County
brought
three
busloads
of
community
leaders,
all
wearing
52
and
guess
what
they
actually
are
are
headed
toward
that
goal.
So
I
lift
that
up
simply
to
say
that
that
our
goal
with
this
data
on
one
level
is
to
give
local
communities
specific,
measurable
and
attainable
goals,
and
we
love
the
idea
that
that
we
see
cross-sector
folks
coming
together
at
a
county
level.
D
So
certainly
one
implication
is
around
local
action
and
you
know
where
we're
going
for
the
other
one,
which
is
policy
knowing
who
is
on
this
committee.
I
kind
of
wanted
to
raise
your
thinking
a
little
bit,
and
that
is
that
that
more
and
more
research,
both
from
Brookings
and
Michigan
State
start
have
started.
Looking
at
State
Legislative
policies
and
they've
developed
what
they
call
a
topology
of
of
state
level
policies
when
they
look
at
those
their
contention.
D
Is
that
that-
and
this
is
not
for
y'all-
and
it's
not
necessarily
in
Kentucky
nationally-
that
a
lot
of
legislation
gets
passed
that
supports
trends
that
actually
are
dying,
that
that
we're
supporting
efforts
that
no
longer
should
be
supported.
They
also
see
a
disproportionate
number
of
policies
that
simply
continue
current
practice.
D
What
this
particular
piece
of
work
does
is
they
look
at
Innovation
and
return
on
investment,
and
their
contention
is
that
if
policy,
if
you
want
policies
to
create
a
return
on
investments
both
economically
and
for
constituents,
we
have
to
look
at
boundary
spanning
issues
and
so
Shannon
and
I
I'm.
Sorry,
Dr,
Moody
and
I
want
to
talk
to
you
just
for
a
second
about
some
potential
boundary
spanning
activities,
as
some
of
you
know,
certainly
Senator
Rocky
Adams.
D
D
What
we
think
the
blueprint
is
going
to
be
and
we're
getting
ready
to
do
that,
so
these
are
not
on
the
docket
yet,
but
I
think
they're
coming
when
we
think
about
boundary
spanning
first
of
all-
and
you
all
get
this
you
all
as
committee
members-
certainly
understand
that
that
that
child
welfare
is
affected
by
everything,
I
mean
you
can't
talk
about
child
welfare
and
not
talk
about
economics
and
health
and
education
and
in
community
violence.
So
so
almost
any
policy
that
the
general
assembly
looks
at,
in
my
opinion,
is
child
welfare
policy.
D
We
also
know
that
some
child
welfare
policies
come
from
data
and
some
come
from
experiences
right
now
we're
working
on
one
of
the
other
things
we
do
that
that
some
of
you
know
is
occasionally
one
of
your
colleagues
will
ask
us
to
to
handle
a
constituent
issue,
we're
looking
right
now
at
at
three
parallel
cases
for
three
members
of
the
general
assembly
and
there's
also
a
Louisville
media
Outlet,
that's
looking
at
a
fourth
case
and
they're
all
identical,
and
that
is
that
that
young
people
who
have
Beyond
severe
health
issues
are
in
kinship
situations
or
just
regular
parental
care
situations,
and
for
some
reason
what
those
parents
face
is
to
get
the
medical
help.
D
They
need
the
only
achievable
way
to
do
that
is
to
give
up
custody.
Now,
if
you
as
a
general
assembly,
value,
Community,
Family
stability,
I'm,
assuming
no
one
in
this
room,
once
a
parent
or
a
grandma
to
be
faced
with
the
fact
to
get
my
child,
the
help
I
need.
My
only
alternative
is
to
give
up
custody.
So
we're
just
beginning
to
explore
that
some
of
you
may
know
more
far
more
about
that.
D
Certainly
probably
some
staff
folks
do
than
we
do
I'm
telling
you
that's
a
boundary
issue
that
I'd
love
for
you
to
look
at.
How
do
we
get
parents
and
grandmas
and
grandpas
the
help
they
need
without
giving
up
custody
of
their
children?
Here's
another
example
and
I
want
to
give
you
just
one
more
and
then
I've
asked
Shannon
to
give
you
a
couple
representative.
D
Banna
may
know
this
has
been
kind
of
on
our
radar
for
a
long
time,
and
it
continues
to
be
in
the
world
of
schools
in
Kentucky
those
comprehensive
schools
in
your
District
that
High
School
up
the
road,
the
the
elementary
school
around
the
corner.
They
are
called
A1
schools.
D
There
is
also
a
group
of
Education
entities
called
A5
programs
in
most
districts.
I,
don't
know
how
to
say
this
politely
but
they're
generally
the
places
where
kids,
who
have
been
suspended,
go
okay,
so
they
are
the
kids
who,
for
whatever
reason,
aren't
perceived
as
being
able
to
make
it
in
A1
programs,
but
there's
another
category
of
programming.
D
That
certainly
fits
this
committee's
oversight
and
that's
A6
programming.
That's
education,
programming
for
children
in
state
care,
Juvenile
Justice,
as
well
as
dcbs
I,
am
convinced
that
that
is
an
arena
that
that
demands
some
kind
of
program,
review
and
evaluation.
D
I
need
to
say
that
everyone
does
not
agree
with
our
assessment
and
that's
why
you're
hearing
me
hope
that
folks
would
do
a
review
rather
than
you
just
trusting
our
recommendations.
I
think
if
you
dig
into
that
what
you'll
see
is,
for
instance,
lack
of
academic
achievement,
kids
in
foster
care
graduate
at
barely
more
than
half
the
rate
of
the
rest
of
the
state.
D
What
does
that
mean
for
economic
viability,
because
my
sense
is
that
these
young
people
are
not
moving
to
Silicon
Valley
they're,
going
to
stay
in
your
community
and
we
we
better
find
a
way
to
make
sure
they
can
read
and
write
and
do
math.
Secondly,
we
are
convinced
that
there
is
an
issue
of
financial
inequity.
D
What
I
perceive
and
I
know
you're
going
to
hear
from
Miss
Sanborn
in
a
minute
and
she's
also
working
has
been
working
with
us.
What
we
perceive
is
that
there
are
certain
entities-
frankly,
probably
in
Senator
Rocky,
Adams,
representative
Raymond
and
Senator
Berg's
area.
A
big
residential
facilities
in
those
communities
produce
really
good
A6
programming.
But
when
you
ask
them,
they
tell
you
that
it's
because
they
put
in
millions
of
their
own
money
so
that
home
of
the
Innocents
or
Brooklawn
or
or
Bellwood
they
are
providing
services.
D
But
it's
because
they're
doing
their
own
version
of
a
bake
sale.
It's
not
because
they're
getting
the
money
they
need
in
residential
facilities
in
in
more
rural
areas.
Those
kids
are
suffering.
We
here
on
a
consistent
basis
that
those
kids,
the
most
vulnerable
in
the
state,
are
getting
leftovers
from.
You
know
A1
schools
or
they
are
inadequately
staffed
or
equipped.
So
we
have
questions
as
to
the
fiscal
Equity.
That's
at
play.
The
final
area
is
that
I
believe
knowing
where
you
guys
are
a
review
of
the
locus
of
government
governance.
D
D
No
one
is
responsible,
so
you
know
the
challenge,
because
if
there
is
a
group
of
young
people
who
don't
have
school
board
members
or
PTA
moms,
it's
kids
who
are
in
state
custody
and
so
I
would
invite
and
ask
that
that
you
all
as
a
group
or,
however,
normal
committee
structures
work
within
the
general
assembly,
an
area
that
is
ripe
for
a
program
review
and
then
sort
of
representative
bana
in
my
head.
It's
can
we
do
Cara
for
A6
programs.
Can
we
do
an
education
reform
package
for
A6
programs?
D
B
But
there
Kentucky
youth
Advocates
has
the
privilege
of
facilitating
a
group
of
Judges
the
department
for
community-based
services
and
administrative
office
of
the
courts,
and
we
do
that
because
there's
a
need
for
cross-collaboration
and
having
an
external
facilitator
is
helpful
for
that
and
the
reason
I'm
telling
you
this
is
because,
in
the
the
last
several
meetings
that
we
have
had
all
of
those
entities
are
in
agreement
around
the
same
issue,
in
that
there
are
issues
with
timeliness
to
permanency
for
Youth
and
care,
so
whether
it's
timeliness
to
adoption
timeliness
to
reunification.
B
There
are
major
issues
in
that
space.
We
also
know
that
oftentimes,
so
State
social
workers
are
put
in
situations
in
court
where
they're
having
to
respond
to
questions
that
frankly,
they
shouldn't
be
responding
to
or
need
to
have,
the
answer
for,
because
they're
not
attorneys
but
oftentimes,
because
of
the
way
that
the
cabinet
is
represented.
B
That
is
the
situation
that
they're
put
in
so,
and
we've
worked
with
the
office
of
Legal
Services,
the
judges,
AOC
and
dcbs
around
a
recommendation
related
to
ensuring
that
there
are
the
processes
by
trans,
ensuring
improved
Court
processes
by
transferring
the
presentation
of
the
case
from
the
county
attorney's
office
to
the
office
of
Legal
Services,
along
with
the
allocated
resources,
so
that
that
there
are
attorneys
who
understand
and
know
from
the
office
of
Legal
Services
how
to
present
a
case
for
these
dependency,
neglect
and
abuse
cases
adequately
and
in
a
way
that
gets
us
to
faster
permanency
and
better
outcomes
for
kids
and
families.
B
I
know
it's
really
kind
of
in
the
weeds,
but
that
is
that's
a
recommendation
that
was
created
by
judges,
the
AOC,
dcbs
and
folks,
who
have
been
thinking
about
this
for
quite
a
while
another
recommendation
or
or
something
to
consider
for
this
group
is
the
development
of
an
external
ombudsman's
office.
As
you
all
may
be
aware,
the
current
ombudsman's
office
is
sitting
within
the
Cabinet
for
Health
and
Family
Services
Under
The
Office
of
the
secretary
back
in
2018
when
House
Bill
one
was
in
development.
B
The
calls
that
they're
receiving
and
then
finally-
and
this
is
one
that
you
all
have
seen
on
the
blueprint
before
related
across
agency
reporting
right
now,
if
abuse
is
suspected
within
a
particular
agency.
B
That
report
is
being
made
from
that
agency
and
it
could
be
made
to
that
agency.
So,
for
example,
if
a
police
officer
is
a
alleged
perpetrator
of
abuse,
they
can
make
the
somebody
can
make
the
report
to
the
police,
and
then
it
can
live
there
there.
That
report
isn't
required
to
be
made
to
the
Cabinet
for
Health
and
Family
Services
or
the
county
attorney's
office,
which,
as
you
all
can
imagine,
can
create
some
some
real
problems
with
it
not
being
communicated
up
the
chain
or
across
agencies
to
then
be
dealt
with.
B
D
Now
you
know
we
can
keep
going,
but
what
we
wanted
to
do
was
just
highlight
some
of
those
boundary
issues
that
that
we
anticipate
bringing
you
and
try
to
get
you
involved
in
thinking
about
those
early
on.
We
obviously
would
welcome
your
questions.
You
know
we
appreciate
this
committee,
both
collectively
individually
and
and
certainly
the
chairperson's
persistent
support
of
what
we
do
when
it
comes
to
kids
and
families
and
child
welfare,
so
that
conclusive
Madam
chair
yes,.
A
Thank
you
very
much
for
your
all's
presentation.
You
know
your
kids
count
book
is
like
the
the
Bible
for
people.
The
members
of
this
committee
I
mean
we
really
comb
through
those
numbers
and
those
recommendations.
I'm
really
glad
that
you
brought
up
the
Asic
schools.
I've
never
heard
of
that.
But,
as
you
mentioned,
Jefferson
County
is
having
a
really
intense
conversation
about
what
we
do
with
juveniles
within
our
community.
A
That
are
disruptive,
and
you
know,
there's
two
schools
of
thought:
incarcerate
them
or
you
know
how
do
we
have
some
sort
of
mitigating
environment
for
them
to
respond
to
and
come
out
of
and
and
I
like
that,
anything
that
we
can
do
to
have
some
more
ideas
about
how
to
handle
that
you.
D
A
D
I
would
suggest
to
you
that
it's
really
a
state
system
we're
working
closely
with
Lori
Gibbons
and
her
team
at
AOC
I
think
what
they
would
say
is
that
that
whole
notion,
Senator
Westerfield,
facilitated
a
conversation
a
couple
months
ago,
on
that
the
whole
conversation
around
trauma-informed
care
for
young
people
who
either
have
made
a
mistake.
You
know
we're
not
denying
that
kids
make
mistakes
or
those
young
people
who,
for
instance,
have
been
neglected
and
abused
as
an
old,
broken
down
former
public
school
administrator.
D
D
D
We
actually
were
very
emboldened
when
Louisville
closed,
that
that,
to
his
credit,
Governor,
Bevin
and
then
representative
are
then,
commissioner
Butler
had
actually
put
together
a
group
of
Louisville
non-profits
and
some
20
non-profits
that
come
together
to
craft
a
strategy
around
a
community-based
diversion
and
detention
program
that
did
not
move
forward.
We
actually
facilitated
that
and
again
being
very
candid.
D
We
hope
that
the
mayoral
election
in
Louisville
produces
an
opportunity
for
us
to
resurrect
that
idea,
so
that
we
get
out
of
this
lock
them
up,
throw
it
away.
You're,
not
hearing
us
say,
don't
hold
them
accountable,
but
let's
not
throw
away
the
key
on
a
Statewide
basis
if
and
I'm
not.
But
if
I
were
a
representative
from
a
more
rural
area,
I
would
be
deeply
concerned
about
the
lack
of
financial
resources
that
kids
in
both
DJJ
and
dcbs
Facilities.
D
Have
those
young
people
should
not
get
The
Condemned
library
books
from
the
A1
school
they
should
not.
This
is
a
double
negative
on
purpose.
They
should
not
not
be
taught
by
non-certified
teachers
because
they
actually
need
what
higher
quality
more
highly
personalized,
more
differentiated
instruction
than
the
typical
kid
does,
and
so
for
the
kids
who
need
the
most
we're
tempting
to
give
them
the
least,
and
so
we
would,
depending
on
your
all's
direction,
we
would
be
happy
to
put
together
some
thinking
on
A6
and
move
that
ahead.
Thank.
A
You
that's
really
important
and
I
have
one
more
question
for
you
on
your
very
first
page,
the
2022
Kentucky
State
data
profile.
One
of
the
things
that
we
did
better
on
is
children.
Without
health
insurance
like
don't,
we
have
the
ability
to
have
every
child
covered.
Yes,.
D
Really
a
national
model
that
began
several
years
ago
and
has
continued
I
think
what
we're
I
think
what
we've
run
into
is
that
final
group
that
we
don't
have
we're
gonna
and
I
think
you
know
folks
in
in
the
cabinet,
would
agree
we're
going
to
have
to
get
more
and
more
Innovative
to
get
that
final
couple
percent.
But
the
overall
effort
has
been
really
good.
There
is
always
that
I
guess
that
gap
between
100
and
98,
but
but
that
is
a
real
that's
a
real
win
on
a
on
a
national.
D
A
Awesome
well,
unless
the
committee
has
any
more
questions.
Thank
you
very
much
for
your
presentation.
It
was
fabulous
and
I
will
be
following
up
with
you.
D
A
Okay,
last
but
not
least,
do
you
think
we
saved
the
best?
For
last
we
have
Michelle
Sanborn.
She
is
going
to
present
from
the
Children's
Alliance.
Please
introduce
yourself
for
the
record
and
proceed.
E
Here
we
go
so
thank
you
for
having
me
come
this
morning,
chairwoman,
Rocky
Adams,
I,
appreciate
it
in
committee.
I
could
talk
all
day
and
you
know
I
can
get
kind
of
a
little
passionate
and
long-winded.
So
I'm
going
to
stick
to
my
15
minutes,
so
I'm
going
to
try
to
follow
my
my
script
here.
That
is
my
15
or
20
I.
Think
it's
15
or
20
minutes.
E
So
anyway,
as
Dr
Moody
and
Dr
Brooks
communicated,
there
are
some
positive
things
going
on
in
Kentucky
and
actually
I
just
spent
a
week
with
some
colleagues
from
Across
the
Nation,
my
counterparts
and
other
states
and
actually
I
left
feeling
pretty
good
about
Kentucky.
So
I
was
like,
let's,
let's
do
a
pat
on
the
back
and
and
talk
about
some
of
the
good
things
we're
doing,
but
us
as
well
as
other
states
have
a
lot
of
room
for
improvement
in
child
welfare
So.
E
Today,
we're
going
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
positive
that's
going
on,
but
we're
also
going
to
talk
about
some
pain
points
and
and
kind
of
build
on
some
of
the
the
things
that
Dr
Brooks
and
Dr
Minnie's
communicated.
As
you
can
see.
This
is
just
point
in
time.
Data
provided
by
the
Cabinet
for
Health
and
Family
Services
here
that
are
out
of
Home
Care
number
is
that
top
pink
numbers
are
starting
to
go
down.
E
We
went
up
over
the
years,
but
we're
working
to
move
to
reduce
the
number
of
children
and
out
of
home
care,
foster
care.
Both
PCC
foster
care
families,
dcbs
foster
care,
families
are
holding
steady,
so
we're
continuing
to
recruit,
foster
parents.
We
need
more.
So,
if
anybody's
out
there
watching
anybody
here,
we
need
foster
parents,
we
need
more
kinship
care
parents
and
we
need
more
foster
parents,
so
I
will
say
that
and
then
lastly,
our
reduced
number
and
and
residential
this
line
doesn't
doesn't
really
show
it
and
we're
going
to
talk
a
little
about
that.
E
Because
I
think
that's
one
of
the
things
we
really
need
to
celebrate,
but
I'll
I'll
go
on
and
we'll
hit
that
reduction
in
residential
I.
Think
so,
when
you
see
those
point
in
time
and
you
can
come
see,
what
we're
doing
in
Kentucky
is
a
trend.
I
also
like
to
point
out:
where
are
we
and
compared
to
kind
of
the
national
average?
When
I
hear
my
colleagues
talk
and
hear
what's
going
on
in
their
states,
I
say
how
are
we
doing
so?
E
I
pulled
out
Kentucky
in
2006
data
and
Kentucky
in
2020,
and
that's
the
most
latest
or
current
data
that
I
can
get
through
the
federal
afghar
data,
and
this
is
actually
Federal
fiscal
year
data.
The
last
PowerPoint
was
really
point
in
time,
because
that's
what
I
have
for
Kentucky,
but
you
can
really
see
that
we're
doing
a
great
job,
reducing
the
number
of
kids
in
residential,
where
we
do
a
great
job
at
foster
care.
E
Obviously
you
can
see
we
need
to
do
a
better
job
of
increasing
our
kinship
care,
and
you
heard
Miss
Hatfield
share
some
of
the
the
movement
that
we've
been
doing.
We've
been
making
strides
and
we're
going
to
continue
can
see
the
Improvement,
but
that's
the
obviously
the
area
you
can
see
where
we
need
to
continue,
but
I
do
want
to
take
an
opportunity
to
say.
E
Congratulations,
congratulations
to
Providers
to
Administration
to
the
general
assembly
for
working
to
to
reduce
the
number
of
kids
in
residential
I
know
that
in
May
of
2005
that
was
when
I
was
at
the
cabinet.
We
had
20
percent
of
our
children
in
out
of
Home
Care
were
in
residential
services.
Today
we're
at
seven
percent
and
we're
going
to
talk
a
little
bit
about
the
the
the
the
Silver
Lining
to
that,
but
also
the
maybe
some.
It
is
definitely
still
a
cloud
potentially
in
that
reductions.
E
We
need
to
be
really
careful,
we're
being
Innovative
and
we're
moving
to
the
front
end
and
we're
providing
different
services
and
we're
ensuring
only
those
that
need
treatment
or
in
treatment,
but
we
also
need
to
make
sure
that
we're
supporting
those
kids
that
are
there.
That's
that
seven
percent
so
just
wanted
to
share
a
little
bit
about.
Where
are
kids
going
again
in
comparison
to
the
United
States
we're
doing
we're
doing
fairly.
E
Well
with
that
emancipation
we
could
probably
get
a
little
bit
better
at
work
to
to
getting
those
families,
The
Family
First
Act,
a
huge
federal
act
that
was
implemented
in
2018..
E
It
really
had
two
parts
of
of
the
bill:
one
was
to
create
what
we
call
qualified,
Residential,
Treatment
providers
or
qrtps
and
I'll
just
probably
refer
to
them
as
residential
I've
used
that
term.
That's
the
old
term,
that's
going
to
be
my
term
most
of
our
agencies
across
the
state
that
do
Residential
Services
are
qrtps
today
in
the
state
of
Kentucky,
and
it
also
allowed
for
drawdown
for
Prevention
Services.
E
The
Mandate
for
all
states
to
implement
was
October.
2021
Kentucky
was
an
early
implementer.
We
we
implemented
our
Prevention
Services
in
October,
19
and
I
have
already
implemented
our
qrtps
across
the
state,
but
as
of
today.
So
all
that
happened
and
several
years
ago,
30
other
states
have
approved
prevention
plans.
So
we're
way
ahead
of
the
curve.
E
So
this
really
should
be
really
a
circle
or
a
chain
or
a
link,
but
you
can
see
it
takes
all
of
these
different
levels
to
serve
the
type
of
children
that
that
we
that
we
work
with
the
Child
Welfare
involvement
is
all
across
the
the
Continuum
but
I
put
two
arrows
to
really
show
two
I
would
say
two
key
points
and
and
in
the
system
that
I
think
are
really
important
for
us
to
acknowledge
and
one
is
a
time
of
Investigation.
E
So
we
get,
we
get
a
referral,
someone
says:
maybe
there's
been
abuse
and
neglect
and
we
go
in
there.
And
then
we
have
this
family
preservation
piece
here,
something
that
you
all
have
invested
in
and
and
we've
actually
doubled
our
services
in
the
last
few
years,
so
that
we
we
can
prevent
that
removal
and
so
I
think
removal
is
really
key
and
the
reason
is
it's
key,
because
it's
once
we
put
a
child
into
out
of
Home
Care
in
our
foster
care
system.
E
So,
two
years
right,
many
of
our
kids,
many
of
our
kids
go
back
home
in
months,
maybe
even
weeks
and
and
in
some
cases,
but
but
a
few
months.
So
the
majority
of
our
kids
are
moving
quickly
through
this
system,
but
on
average
you
can
see
if
you
look
at
the
whole
Continuum,
which
means
some
kids
are
staying
in
on
our
system
for
years
and
again
it's
costing
our
our
agencies
or
our
state
and
it
cost
our
children
from
being
away
from
their
families.
E
So
it's
really
important
that
we
really
focus
on
I.
I
should
should
actually
go
back
where
that
removal
is
on
that
family
preservation,
putting
an
investment
in
those
services
to
keep
those
children
from
coming
into
that
kind
of
more
restrictive
care.
I
call
the
back
end
and
it's
the
front
end
and
then
also
making
sure
we
look
at
our
community-based
Behavioral,
Health
Services.
E
So
there's
two
areas
that
I
would
call
our
prevention,
I,
would
say
secondary
and
tertiary
prevention,
and
we
can
talk
primary
I've
been
talking
a
lot
to
our
colleagues
that
prevent
child
abuse
Kentucky
about
even
moving
further
to
the
front
end
right,
which
is
where
I
would
like
to
see
our
our
boundaries
go
right.
We
should
be
moving
to
the
to
that
front
end,
but
really
focusing
on
those
two
areas,
and
one
of
the
things
we
have
focused
on
is
that
family
preservation
area
and
I
stole
this
slide
from
I
asked
dcbs.
E
If
I
could
use
this
slide.
You
all
saw
this
slide
in
July.
Krista
Bell
presented
the
slide,
but
I
love
this
slide,
because
it
shows
that
our
investments
and
that
family
preservation,
Prevention
Services,
is
actually
showing
a
decrease
in
the
cost
of
our
Idaho
care
right.
You
can
see
that
it's
working,
so
thank
you
for
that
investment
and
know
that
we're
going
to
continue
to
improve
this
and
work
on
this,
but
that's
an
important
and
key
key
place
so
I
think
again.
Overall
we're
doing
well
and
later
you
can
see.
E
Some
of
my
colleagues
are
really
struggling.
So
I
want
to
make
sure
that
we're
we're
not
falling
into
those
concerns
that
some
of
the
other
states
have
gotten
into
so
I
really
want
to
share
really
two
concerns
that
are
I,
think
burning
or
pain
points
in
our
Continuum
of
Care
and
I.
Think
there's
some
concerns,
some
of
which
Dr
Brooks
brought
up
today
about
qualified
Residential,
Treatment
programs
and
resources
there
and
our
residential
agencies
and
then
also
our
community-based
Behavioral,
Health
Services,
which
is
prior
to
dcbs
interventions.
E
So
the
intensity
of
the
behaviors
of
our
kids
and
our
resident
has
gone
up
and
you're
going.
Why
is
that?
Well
now,
we've
we're
only
serving
those
kids
that
need
treatment,
which
means
it's
not
it's
not
just
a
group
of
kids
like
in
a
school
where
you
have
some
that
are
a
little
more
intense
and
some
that
are
a
little
right.
You're
now,
you've,
you've
called
out
and
now
we're
very
intense
I
had
a
a
program.
E
Tell
me
just
yesterday
that
they
used
to
be
able
to
serve
12
kids
in
a
cottage
and
now
seven
or
eight
is
all
they
can
do.
They
said
it's
just
the
the
Acuity
and
need
and
treatment
need
of
the
kids
that
they're
serving
today
are
so
severe
that
they
cannot
continue
to
serve
that
many
in
in
one
setting
right.
E
These
are
the
types
of
kids
that
were
that
were
serving
and
their
their
behaviors
are
to
the
point
where
our
psych
hospitals
are
not
serving
them.
We
have
two
agencies
right
now
that
have
two
children,
each
that
have
taken
their
children
to
the
psych
hospital
for
admission
and
the
hospitals
are
saying
they're
too
severe,
so
I've
reached
out
to
the
hospital
Association,
because
if
the
hospitals
can't
take
them,
which
is
then
what
right
we're
like
What,
but
we
have
to
take
them
back
in
our
residential
facilities.
E
They
can't
not
go
anywhere
so
where
we
need
to
make
sure
we
have
the
staff
and
the
people
to
to
treat
those
kids
and
I
know.
The
hospital
Association
is
working
with
dcbs
and
working
in
Partnership
to
try
to
come
up
with
Solutions
and
recommendations
for
proposals
to
treat
these
kids,
but
in
the
meantime,
they're
at
our
residential
facilities
and
we
need
staff
and
if
you
haven't,
heard,
there's
a
Workforce
crisis
all
across
the
nation.
E
So
again,
my
colleagues
that
I
was
commiserating
with
are
all
trying
to
figure
out
what
to
do
in
regards
to
the
workforce.
But
we
did
a
survey
of
our
members
prior
to
the
pandemic
and
the
residential
Direct
Care
staff
was
only
being
paid
on
average
11
an
hour
we've
gotten
a
rate
increase.
Thank
you
to
you
all,
so
we
appreciate
that,
and
today
it's
it's
about
14
or
15
an
hour,
and
so
14
15
an
hour
to
take
care
of
very
severe
youth.
E
E
What
kind
of
experience
are
we
seeing
with
these
Direct
Care
staff,
and
many
of
our
residential
agencies
have
really
had
to
stop
taking
referrals
they
they
they
can't
they've,
got
to
had
to
close
cottages
and
again
we
can
applaud
that
that
we're
we're
not
serving,
but
at
some
point
we're
going
to
reach
this
threshold.
Where,
where
will
these
children
go
right?
So
we
have
to
be
able
to
serve
those
that
need
treatment,
we're
doing
assessments
now
that
only
those
that
need
treatment
are
in
these
facilities.
E
A
E
They
they
have
they
in
the
past,
we've
had
a
lot
a
lot
of
kids
and
now
they're
starting
this
trickle
out,
because
we
brought
them
all
back
and
we've
been
working.
We
had
concerted
efforts
to
do
this,
but
now
they're
there.
They
are
starting
to
that
those
numbers
and
I.
Don't
I,
don't
have
those
numbers
on
me.
I
wish
I
did
we
can
we
can
talk
to
dcbs
about
getting
those
but.
A
E
Family
work
there's
no
reunification
right,
they're
they're
far
away,
so
we
have
made
concerted
efforts
to
bring
them
back.
But
when
we
get
to
this
point,
where
we're
hitting
right
we're
hitting
this
base,
where
else
are
they
going
to
go
and
other
states
are
calling
us
I
actually
had
a
call
from
a
judge,
just
I,
don't
know
probably
two
months
ago,
and
he
was
trying
to
get
names
of
my
agencies
so
that
he
could
send
his
kids
across
the
the
lines
to
to
our
facilities
and
I
told
them.
E
E
So
so
last
week
I
just
got
on
and
said
you
know:
what's
the
what's
the
going
rate
if
I
were
to
get
a
job
to
be
a
Hostess
or
to
work
at
Costco,
and
this
is
Louisville
last
week
and
you
can
see
it's
more
than
what
these
kids,
what
these
young
men
and
women
are
making
as
Direct
Care
staff
working
with
critically
just
traumatized
and
and
treatment
children.
E
So
the
other
area
that
I
want
to
talk
about
is
Behavioral
Health
Services.
So
this
is
the
front
end.
This
is
before
dcbs
involvement
and,
as
you
can
see,
we're
in
a
national
mental
health
youth
crisis.
So
there's
two
things
going
on
increased
need
and
then
again
the
workforce
crisis
is
gonna.
It's
gonna
hit
us,
so
we've
got
two
two
things
converging.
E
They
cannot
continue
to
to
work
and
provide
the
therapeutic
services
needed
in
our
communities
with
our
families
due
to
the
the
reimbursement
rate
and
I'll
I'll.
Show
you
a
little
bit
more
about
that,
but
on
a
national
level
we're
seeing
increased
depression,
increased
anxiety,
increased
ER
visits,
increase
suicide
attempts,
so
the
the
the
crisis
is
ramping
up.
E
At
the
same
time,
we're
losing
we're
losing
Staff
last
last
year,
December
so
beginning
of
this
year
we
did
a
survey
about
our
Behavioral
Health
Providers
as
part
of
the
Children's
Alliance,
and
they
were,
on
average
11
weeks
long
on
a
waiting
list
so
11
weeks.
So
that's
three
or
four
months.
I
can
say
that
as
a
parent
of
a
child
who
struggled
with
some
mental
health
issues
that
when
we
tried
to
work
through
a
lot
of
things
at
home
right
before
what
I
would
say,
calling
for
help,
we
can
work
on
this.
E
We
know
we
know
the
source
of
this
anxiety.
Let's,
let's
work,
I've
talked
to
teachers,
talk
to
people
at
church
right.
We
kind
of
surrounded
like
try
to
help
the
issue,
but
it
reached
a
point
where
I
needed
to
ask
for
help
and
I
was
able
to,
because
I
had
the
luxury
of
calling
a
private
therapist
and
paying
privately
to
see
somebody
that
week.
E
If
they
would
have
told
me,
oh
yeah,
yeah,
we'll
see
her
and
we'll
see
in
11
weeks.
I
would
have
said
well,
I
mean
the
crisis
will
be
over
then
or
or
she
may
not
be
here.
Then
right.
That's
that's
where
we
are,
and
so
11
weeks
and
my
mind
is
not
access
and
if
we're
required
to
provide
Medicaid
Access
Medical
access
to
these
services,
but
then
we're
putting
them
on
11
week
waiting
lists,
that's
really
not
access,
and
you
can
see
where
the
Behavioral
Health
members
turnover
rate
is
is
again
growing.
E
That's
that's
been
really
a
steady
job,
but
their
therapists
are
leaving
in
droves,
and
you
can
see
here's
the
Kentucky
Medicaid
rate
in
in
2014,
which
was
really
the
implementation
of
where
they
opened
up
bhsos
and
msgs,
which
is
our
multi-specialty
groups.
So
it's
those
that
are
in
the
community.
Beyond
our
community
mental
health
centers.
This
was
the
established
rate
for
an
hour
of
therapy.
It's
just
one
service.
E
These
providers
provide
many
other
types
of
services,
but
a
common
service
is
individual
therapy
with
our
families
it
was
75
30
back
in
2014
and
in
2022
it's
today.
This
is
our
current
rate,
which
is
78
dollars
an
hour,
and
if
you
just
Google
the
U.S
CPI
calculator,
you
can
see
that
same
buying
power
is
actually
95.
That's
over
25
percent
increase
from
75
to
95
and
that's
what
that's
what
we
need.
E
There
are
many
of
our
states
around
us
they're
getting
paid
over
a
hundred
dollars
an
hour
for
an
hour
of
therapy
cmhcs
on
average,
get
paid
100
an
hour.
Ninety
five
dollars
and
34
cents
is,
is
not
actually
that's
almost
too
low
to
ask
because
they
need
more
than
25
percent.
That's
where
they
are.
They
are
losing
hand
over
fist
and
boards
are
saying
we
can't
keep
up
with
this,
along
with
the
workforce,
kind
of
shorted
or
they're
struggling
with
getting
the
therapy.
They
can't
keep
up
with
resources.
E
We've
increased
our
administrative
burden
on
these
agencies.
So
what
I
mean
by
that
is?
We
have
six
mcos
and
they're
asking
for
audits
of
these
of
these
folks,
which
they
should
right.
We
should
be
making
sure
that
they're
they're
being
paid
for
and
doing
what
they
say-
they're
they're
being
paid
for
and
asking
to
be
billed
but
I
have
a
member
who
has
not
really
grown
over
the
years.
But
in
fiscal
year
18
19
20
21.
E
On
average
they
had
about
597
audits
the
whole
year
in
fiscal
year,
22
they
had
2100
Audits
and
as
of
July
and
September
two
months,
they've
had
601
audits
and
agencies
are
saying
that
they've
come.
They
complete
four
different
types
of
audits,
first,
with
six
different
mcos
and
when
it
started
the
mcos
were
asking
them
for
a
list
of
of
Records
like
this,
and
they
said
you
have
a
week
to
get
those
to
us
and
of
course,
providers
called
me
and
I
was
just
like
wait.
E
Wait
wait,
wait
a
minute,
we
don't
mind
getting
you
these
records,
but
you
have
to
give
us
time
because,
oh
guess,
what
we're
treating
children
where
Therapy
Services
we're
we're
in
their
homes
we're
traveling
we're.
Oh
we're
we're
behind,
because
we're
losing
therapists
right.
So
the
mcos
did
work
with
us
to
extend
the
time
frame
to
provide
those
records.
But
but
the
the
records
just
just
keep
being
asked
for
for
them
to
provide
these
audits
oftentimes.
E
They
don't
even
hear
back
from
the
audits,
which
is
very
frustrating
I,
think
they
do
all
this
work
and
it's
just
like.
So
where
are
we
so
also?
They've
reported
that
they've
because
of
billing
and
things
Audits
and
things
they've
had
to
increase
their
administrative
staff.
One
agency
said
they
went
from
seven
to
11
staff,
just
in
their
like
billing
program.
This
is
a
large
program
right.
E
Another
agency,
a
small
one,
said
that
oh
yeah
they've
had
to
quadruple
their
services,
their
administrative
staff,
so
they're,
so
we're
growing
our
administrative
staff,
but
we're
decreasing
our
treatment
because
we
can't
get
therapy
therapists.
One
of
my
members
who
provides
a
lot
of
services
in
many
of
your
areas.
E
They
used
to
have
35
therapists
and
a
really
a
kind
of
a
growing
program,
but
over
the
years
they've
lost
therapists
and
they
can't
they
can't
recruit
ones
they've
only
they
only
have
10
left,
and
so,
while
they're
continuing
and
they're
one
of
the
agencies,
where
their
board's
asking
do,
we
need
to
keep
doing
this
and
they
want
to
because
they're
committed
to
serving
these
these
youth
in
their
homes
they're
the
ones
out
in
the
communities
keeping
these
kids
from
coming
into
out
of
home
care
or
in
hospitals,
but
they
just
they
just
can't
keep
up
with
the
demand,
so
so
Workforce
Administration.
E
So
there's
kind
of
two
different
things
really
hitting
Community
Based
providers
too,
and
so
I'll
ask
you
for
kind
of
two
solutions.
One
is
we
really
need
to
increase
the
behavioral
health
rates
and
it
needs
to
be
more
than
25
percent.
I
know
that
seems
like
dramatic,
but
it's
like
we've
got
I
mean
something's
got
to
give
if
we
want
to
continue
to
to
either
sustain,
but
we
really
need
to
grow
that
program
if
we
want
to
keep
kids
from
from
going
into
out
of
Home
Care.
E
This
is
just
an
example:
25
would
cost
the
state
16.5
million
to
to
raise
those
rates,
the
overall
Behavioral,
Health
and
bhso
rates,
and
it
would
draw
down
another
38.6
million.
So
for
me,
I
just
think
adding
a
70
Federal
match
is
really
a
win-win,
because
this
is
this
is
money
that's
going
to
be
going
for
salaries
and
I.
E
You
know
I
think
Economic
Development
it's
for
salaries
for
money
that
goes
back
to
consumables
and
taxing,
but
it's
a
it's
a
really
about
making
sure
that
we
have
those
therapists
on
the
front
end
or
we're
just
going
to
continue
to
be
paying
higher
rates
and
and
for
more
kids
on
the
back
end
mandated
Services.
These
are
these
are
those
that
are
available
in
the
community,
so
I've
talked
a
lot.
E
You,
and
you
know
me
I,
like
data
I,
probably
could
go
work
for
for
UPS
what
Dr
Brooks
mentioned:
I'm
very
practical
I
I
talk
about
efficiencies,
I
want
to
save
the
taxpayers
money,
so
I'll
show
you
numbers
all
day
long,
but
in
the
end
it's
about
the
children
and
families
we
serve,
and
so
I've
included
in
the
PowerPoint
three
success
stories,
because
this
is
the
most
important
outcome.
E
This
is
why
we
do
what
we
do,
and
these
are
three
success
stories
from
Behavioral
Health
Providers
that
have
served
these
high-end
kids
successfully
to
keep
them
from
out
of
home
care
or
hospitals.
This
first
story
about
a
child
who
really
had
some
severe
behavioral
issues
because
he
had
a
brain
injury
and
the
therapist
actually
ended
up
going
and
walking
him
to
and
from
school
to
keep
him
safe
and
to
know
where
he
was
going
to
run
to
keep
him
right.
E
They
work
with
him
to
reduce
his
extreme
behaviors
and
and
he's
doing
well,
and
he
actually
comes
and
checks
on
them.
Success
story.
2
is
about
a
child
that
in
the
school,
this
provider
was
working
in
the
school
to
manage
these
behaviors
and
reduce
his
his
restraints
really
at
school,
and
also
they
worked
with
the
family
to
ensure
that
they
had
what
they
needed.
And
today
the
mother
has
a
job
and
the
child
is
doing
well
in
school
and
no
restraints.
E
So
when
I
asked
for
some
success
stories
from
my
agencies,
they're
like
we
could
I
mean
it
was
I
I
had
things
coming
left
and
right,
I
mean
I
could
put
success
stories
down
all
day
long
and
so
I
just
think.
It's
important
that
we
focus
on
this
is
the
positive
outcomes,
but
it's
again
the
the
less
expensive
thing
to
do.
E
E
They're
just
going
to
end
up
in
this
system
right,
and
so
we
really
have
to
protect
that
link
and
support
that
link
or
the
or
the
rest
crumbles,
and
then
supporting
legislation
to
reduce
the
number
of
mcos
to
three
I'm
I'm
for
managed
care,
I've,
I,
I,
believe
in
it
and
and
working
well.
We
have
great
Partnerships
with
the
MCO
six.
E
Six
is
too
many
the
administrative
burden
on
our
agencies
right
now,
it's
just
too
much
having
six
different
ways
to
do
things
is
is
is
crazy,
I
think
I
I
do
have
an
email
that
I
I'll
quickly
read
and
then
I'll
wrap
up.
I
just
got
this
from
a
behavioral
health
member.
It
says
it's
hard
to
keep
up
with
the
rates
so
low,
especially
since
we're
traveling
to
a
good
number
of
our
patients,
whether
that
be
in
the
home
or
school
and
Medicaid.
E
It's
no
wonder
these
young
therapists
want
to
hang
a
shingle
and
sit
on
their
couch
and
do
tele.
Telehealth
says
with
that
said
my
biggest
complaint
right
now.
It
continues
to
be
the
never-ending
audits.
I
got
one
from
one
MCO
on
Thursday
and
I
got
that
finished
and
on
Monday
got
another
one.
I
just
don't
have
the
staff
to
keep
up.
So
it's
important
that
we
try
to
reduce
the
administrative
burden
and
if
we
don't
do
this,
we're
going
to
look
like
my
colleagues.
These
are
links
to
news
articles
all
across
the
nation.
E
A
You
Michelle
I,
really
appreciate
your
presentation.
You
went
through
a
lot
of
stuff
and
it's
good
good
information.
You
know
one
of
the
things
I
was
thinking.
I
agree
with
you
on
the
the
MCO
audits,
but
part
of
the
reason
they
do.
It
is
because
they
can
and
so
I'm
thinking.
Maybe
an
idea
that
we
explore
is
maybe
co-chair.
Mead
and
I
send
a
letter
to
all
of
the
mcos
and
ask
them
to
justify
why
they
are
burdening
I
mean.
Are
they
finding
rampant
fraud?
A
I
doubt
they
are
because
I
know
how
these
organizations
operate
and
they're
all
good
citizens.
So
maybe
you
know
we
explore
something
like
that.
So
you
know
this
is
this
is
really
putting
a
burden
on
our
system
and
so
Justified
to
us
why
this
is
so
necessary,
so
anyways,
that's
just
an
idea
that
maybe
we
can
follow
up
on,
but
we
do
have
a
question
from
Senator
Berg.
F
Thank
you.
Thank
you
for
a
wonderful
presentation.
This
is
really
not
I.
Have
two
questions:
if
that's
okay,
Madam
chairwoman,
but
my
first
question
really
isn't
for
you
and
I
think
it's
more
of
a
question
for
us
which
is:
can
we
not
simply
require
the
mcos
to
consolidate
their
their
data?
You
know
to
come
together
and
find
out
what
information
do
we
really
need
to
make
sure
that
we
have
the
information
we
need
to
to.
F
Provide
adequate
services
and
to
make
sure
that
the
quality
of
services
provided
is
being
adequate,
but
instead
of
each
of
us
individually
requiring
this
data
from
everybody
consolidate
the
data
so
that
as
a
state,
we
know
what
we're
looking
at.
We
know
what
we're
asking.
We
know,
what
we're
monitoring
and
auditing
and
less
of
a
responsibility
on
the
individual
providers
to
provide
data
all
over
the
place.
That's
not
even
being
used
apparently,
so
that's
just
a
thought
you
know:
can
we
require
them
to
consolidate
their
data?
F
My
second
question:
if
I
may
proceed
is
possibly
a
question
for
you.
I
have
two
two
constituents
in
my
district
now,
both
of
whom
have
gotten
their
master's
degree
in
mental
health
care
services
I'm
at
a
University
of
Denver
and
apparently
their
accreditation
program
is
not
allowed
here
in
the
state
of
Kentucky.
F
So
both
of
these
young
women,
one
state,
is
still
in
Denver
working.
The
other
one
is
taking
a
position
in
Indiana
because
her
degree,
even
though
it
is
from
a
school
that
has
recognized
National
credentials,
we
don't
recognize
them
here
in
this
state.
Are
you
aware
of
anything
that
can
be
done
to
resolve
that.
E
So
it's
working
with
the
state
boards
on
reciprocity
and
we
have
been
working
with
with
the
various
boards
on
trying
to
get
reciprocity.
So
it
kind
of
depend
on
what
their
degree
is
in
and
which
board
to
communicate
with
that
board,
to
try
to
make
sure
that
they
they
get
what
they
need
in
order
to
to
be
licensed
in
Kentucky.
E
A
Okay,
any
other
questions
seeing
none.
Thank
you.
I
really
appreciate
it
and
before
we
adjourn
I
just
want
to
make
an
announcement
that
the
next
child
welfare
oversight
and
advisory
committee
is
Wednesday,
November,
9th
at
1
pm
and
I
promise
to
not
to
have
that
change
all
right.
So
if
there's
no
objection,
we
are
adjourned.