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F
President
in
the
room,
I
would
also
note
that
vice
chair
beckler
is
here.
I
think
he
was
on
mute
when
he
said
president,
but
he's
present
remotely
from
his
district.
I
suppose
lynn
is
that
right.
D
That
that
is
correct.
Sometimes
I'm
technologically
challenged
sorry
for
not
hitting
the
unmute
button.
F
That's
what
that's,
what
millenniums
do
for
you?
You,
older
generation,
we
take
care
of,
you
make
sure
you
get
called.
F
E
G
F
All
who
are
against
to
say,
nay,
the
minutes
have
been
approved.
Also
number
two.
At
october
14th
meeting
the
committee
adopted
the
child
fatality
panel
report
by
voice
vote
statute
requires
that
reports
be
adopted
by
roll
call
vote.
That
was
my
pro
my
fault.
Is
there
a
motion
to
adopt
the
report
motion
motion
by
blanton
second
by
representative.
A
F
All
in
all,
in
favor,
okay,
no,
I
was
about.
I
was
about
to
mess
up
again.
If
we
didn't
have
staff
we'd
we'd
do
this
next
month.
Let's
have
a
roll
call
on
adopting
the
report.
B
H
G
G
B
D
D
B
B
F
D
D
F
Aye
all
right,
the
minutes
with
a
vote
14-0
have
been
amended
to
reflect
the
adoption
of
the
child
child
fatality
panel
report.
Okay,
so
now
we're
going
to
get
into
the
the
meat
of
this
meeting.
We
have
on
our
agenda
two
items:
the
county
attorney
traffic
safety
program
and
the
louisville
community
bell
fund.
We
have
testimony
on
that
second,
but
we'll
start
with
the
county
attorney
traffic
safety
program.
Before
I
turn
it
over
to
staff.
I
would
note
we
have
several
of
our
county
attorneys
here
today.
F
H
This
report
reviews
kentucky's
county
attorney
traffic
safety
programs
or
cats
kentucky
acts.
Chapter
190,
section
15
from
2021
requires
this
committee
to
review
the
system
of
traffic
safety
programs
operated
by
county
attorneys
in
the
commonwealth
in
fiscal
year
2020.
This
is
the
final
report
related
to
the
statutory
charge.
H
In
the
2012
regular
session,
the
general
assembly
passed
house
bill
480,
granting
county
attorney's
authority
to
operate
a
traffic
safety
program
for
traffic
offenders
prior
to
the
adjudication
of
their
offense.
This
is
a
diversionary
program
that
should
result
in
the
dismissal
of
a
citation
upon
completion.
H
H
H
H
This
information
is
then
reported
by
pac
to
the
legislative
research
commission.
Pursuant
to
statute,
the
statute
establishes
an
additional
25
fee
payable
to
the
court
clerk
who
pays
it
into
an
agency
account
with
the
administrative
office
of
the
courts.
This
revenue
is
to
be
used
for
hiring
deputy
clerks
and
enhancing
deputy
clerk's
salaries.
H
H
H
H
Cats
are
either
self-operated
by
the
county
or
provided
by
a
vendor
through
an
online
platform.
The
two
vendors
used
are
advent,
fs
and
drive
safe.
These
vendors
do
not
have
written
agreements
with
counties
but
have
informal
agreements
to
send
portions
of
the
fee
to
county
attorneys,
the
finance
administration
cabinet
and
the
administrative
office
of
the
courts.
H
H
H
Internal
controls
are
policies
and
procedures
that
provide
reasonable
assurance
that
statutory
objectives
are
achieved
more
specifically,
these
are
related
to
effectiveness
and
efficiency,
reliable
reporting
and
compliance
with
applicable
laws
and
regulations,
while
statute
does
not
provide
internal
controls
for
the
expenditure
of
program
revenue.
The
kentucky
county,
attorney's
association
has
prov
provided
guidance
on
how
county
attorney
offices
should
use
money
for
paying
office
operating
expenses.
H
The
lack
of
a
specific
internal
control
framework
is
consistent
with
oversight
of
county
attorney
offices
in
general.
The
auditor
of
public
accounts,
the
prosecutor's
advisory
council
and
the
department
for
local
government
all
have
some
statutory
role
related
to
county
attorney
offices,
but
none
have
duties
specifically
directed
at
cats.
The
apa
has
permissive
authority
to
audit
county
attorneys.
It
is
currently
working
with
kentucky
county
attorneys
association
to
begin
agreed
upon
procedures,
reviews
of
county
attorney
offices.
H
H
E
There
is
no
process
in
place
to
ensure
the
information
reported
by
county
attorneys
to
pac
is
consistent
and
accurate.
As
a
result,
there
is
also
no
process
to
verify
the
information
sent
to
lrc
leadership.
Kcaa
officers
stated
that
county
attorneys
generally
do
not
verify
information
sent
to
pac
pac
officials
stated.
The
form
should
provide
the
county
attorney
portion
of
the
charge,
a
staff
analysis
of
fiscal
year.
2020
fees
indicates
that
the
forms
may
provide
an
overestimate
of
the
county
attorney
portion.
E
E
The
overestimate
may
be
due
to
ambiguity
and
the
pack
form
the
top
line
on
the
slide
shows
what
the
report
requests
in
a
fiscal
year.
2021
form
it
asks
for
total
cost,
but
does
not
ask
the
reader
to
subtract
the
fac
or
vendor
fees
before
fiscal
year,
2021
the
form
incorrectly
requested
the
total
cost
less
a
30
aoc
fee.
E
Changing
the
form
to
disaggregate
fees
could
provide
more
meaningful
information
to
pac
and
the
legislature.
The
ambiguous
form
combined
of
high
reported
values,
means
that
pac
and
lrc
cannot
be
reasonably
confident
that
fees
are
consistently
and
accurately
reported
each
year
breaking
out.
The
fee
would
ensure
the
expected
information
is
submitted
and
there
will
be
no
confusion
over
an
80
or
126
dollar
average
recommendation
3.3
is
pat,
should
consider
reviewing
the
cat's
form
to
determine
whether
changes
are
necessary
at
minimum.
E
Recommendation
3.4
is
pat
should
consider
whether
to
request
that
staff
develop
processes
to
more
formally
follow
up
on
incomplete
or
apparently
inaccurate
information
from
county
attorneys.
For
example,
staff
could
quarterly
review
a
sample
of
cats
forms
to
ensure
that
submitted
data
is
consistent
and
accurate.
This
should
be
done
prior
to
reporting
information
to
lrc.
E
E
In
a
review
of
2014
cats
reports,
staff
found
17
instances
across
four
counties
where
county
attorneys
stated
that
ineligible
offenders
participated
in
cats,
transportation,
cabinet
officials
provided
a
table
of
281
instances
of
cdl
offenders
participating
in
cats.
These
offenses
occurred
in
2007,
2010
and
2014
through
2021
across
65
counties.
E
E
These
offenders
are
a
small
percentage
of
the
total,
but
it
may
not
be
a
complete
estimate.
Although
this
information
was
provided
by
the
cabinet,
there
is
no
mechanism
for
catching
the
instances.
There
may
be
more
cdl
offenders
than
we
are
aware
of,
or
there
may
be
offenders
from
another
restricted
category.
E
E
Recommendation
3.5
is
transportation.
Cabinet
staff
should
continue
to
document
cases
where
offenders
with
cdls
are
participating
in
or
have
participated
in
cats.
They
should
also
ensure
that
cdl
offenders
have
not
had
convictions.
It's
bunched
recommendation
3.6
is
kcaa,
should
work
with
the
transportation
cabinet
to
draft
guidance
for
county
attorneys
to
ensure
that
cabinet
officials
receive
notice
when
an
offender
attends
a
county
attorney
safety
program.
E
E
Krs
186
574
sit
c,
allows
county
attorneys
to
charge
a
reasonable
fee
to
program
participants
but
restricts
use
of
that
revenue.
The
statute
intends
for
fee
revenue
to
be
used
for
county
attorney
office
operating
expenses,
but
does
not
define
that
term.
There
is
no
formal
process
to
ensure
cats.
Revenue
is
being
used
appropriately.
E
E
E
The
previous
bulletin
focused
on
revenue
from
cold
check,
collection
and
delinquent
taxes,
but
these
had
the
same
requirements
to
be
used
on
office
operating
expenses.
The
association
is
also
working
with
apa
to
finalize
agreed-upon
procedures
to
review
county
attorney
offices.
This
will
include
a
procedure
to
judgmentally
sample
cat's
revenue
and
determine
if
it
was
spent
in
accordance
with
statutes.
E
Apa
and
kcaa
have
not
addressed
the
lack
of
contracts
or
procurement
processes.
Neither
advent
nor
drive,
safe
use,
written
agreements
for
providing
traffic
safety
programs
drive
safe,
has
drafted
a
written
agreement,
but
county
attorneys
have
not
requested
it.
Both
vendors
receive
the
entirety
of
the
fee
from
participants
and
distribute
its
parts
to
county
attorneys,
fac
and
aoc.
E
A
formal
agreement
could
serve
as
a
control
to
prevent
waste
abuse
or
inefficiencies.
It
may
also
prevent
any
confusion
over
the
obligation
of
vendors
distribution
of
fee
components
or
to
help
settle
disagreements.
As
an
example,
the
unused
drive
safe
contract
clearly
states
how
to
divide
offender
fees.
E
E
E
E
Before
we
take
questions,
I
want
to
thank
the
county,
attorneys,
association,
pac
and
apa.
They
took
questions
and
provided
data
throughout
the
process.
We
also
appreciate
their
feedback
on
finding
sheets,
which
included
our
findings
and
recommendations
on
october
28th.
We
provide
an
early
report
draft
based
on
their
feedback
and
we
will
now
take
questions.
F
All
right,
I
will
ask
the
first
question
and
wait
to
see
if
anyone
else
has
a
question,
so
we
did
a
lot
of
these.
We
did
this
review
a
very
good
review,
and
I
appreciate
you
you
guys
for
doing
this.
This
is,
I
think
this
is
mr
blevins's
first
report
with
us.
So
thank
congratulations
on
that.
F
So,
when
we,
when
we
went
into
this,
this
came
out
of
the
last
general
session,
our
session,
the
general
assembly,
we
were
informed
that
there
may
have
been
some
misconduct
that
was
being
engaged
in
related
to
these
programs.
After
looking
at
what
we've
looked
at
here
and
doing
my
own
questioning
of
various
county
attorneys
offices,
I'm
happy
to
note
that
I've
not
found
any
corruption
misconduct
any
of
that
any
of
that
stuff.
F
In
particular,
there
was
allegations
that
there
were
particular
county
attorneys
who
had
investments
or
ownership
interests
in
these
two,
these
two
companies.
I
think
that
I'm
satisfied
that
that
is,
that
is
untrue.
That's
a
statement
that
that
is,
that
is,
that
lacks
any
veracity.
I
don't
know
about,
maybe
when
it
was
in
the
at
the
inception
ten
years
ago.
I
don't
know
about
that,
but
but
it
doesn't
exist
today
and
it
hasn't
existed
for
the
last
few
years
if
it,
if
it
ever
ever,
did
so.
F
I'm
happy
to
note
that
there
are
a
number
of
things
that
you
guys
have
identified,
that
our
staffs
identified
that
could
be
improvements
and
a
number
of
recommendations
to
shore
up
the
process.
This
is
a
10-year
review.
If
you
will
this,
these
programs
became
legal
or
effective
in
2012,
and
so
this
is
a
good
good
time,
10
years
later,
to
fix
some
of
the
programs,
but
is
my
outlining
of
what
we
found
in
this
in
this
and
it's
outlined
in
this
report
is
it
is?
Is
that
fair?
F
E
I
would
I
would
generally
agree
with
that.
We
don't
have
any
specific
aside
from
the
apa's
report
from
2020.
We
don't
have
any
specific
evidence
that
things
are
going
wrong,
but
there
are
a
lot
of
processes
in
place.
Well,
in
most
cases
there
are
not
processes
in
place.
We
would
feel
better
if
the
processes
were
in
place
to
catch
anything
that
could
be
happening,
especially
to
provide
better
information
about
how
much
revenue
is
coming
in
to
the
county,
attorneys
and.
F
So
that
would
go
from
in
just
looking
at
the
recommendations.
The
bigger
ones,
in
my
view,
are
or
more
the
more
hefty
ones
would
be
to
maybe
ensure
that
we
have
an
rfp
process
or
some
kind
of
contracting
process
up
front.
Where
we
can,
we
can
make
the
make
the
programs
more
uniform,
perhaps
that
they
would
would
reach
the
appropriate
standard.
I
know
we
we've
mentioned
the
the
the
department
of
the
cabinet
a
number
of
times,
in
my
view,
I'm
a
little
uncomfortable
with
that.
F
It
seems
to
me
that
the
I
don't
really
want
people
from
frankfort
that
are
unelected
having
this
kind
of
control.
It
seems
to
me
that
pac
is
the
right
organization
packing.
The
attorney
general,
which
are
the
statutes,
are
replete
with
with
oversight
of
these
county
attorney's
offices
in
pack
in
the
attorney
general's
office.
So
it
would
seem
to
me
with
that
with
that,
with
those
slight
amendments,
I
think
the
I
I
don't
know
that
there's
anything
in
the
report
that
that
I
particularly
take
issue
with,
I
think
they're
they're
improvements
to
the
system.
F
I
want
to
talk
about
the
three
counties
that
we
didn't.
Look
at,
I
think
there
were
only
three
that
don't
use
any
program.
Is
that
correct?
Let
me
double
check
it
very
quickly.
I
know
one
of
those
is
is
a
county
that
I
represent
in
oldham
county
and
I
didn't
know
if
there
were
others.
E
Stay
tuned.
Sorry,
let
me
bring
up
a
reference
slide
very
quickly,
so
this
is
just
showing
the
number
of
counties
that
have
these.
If
you
look
in
2020
there's
a
total
of
102,
so
there's
actually
18
that
don't
have
any
programs.
F
E
No,
we
didn't
look
at
the
independent
ones.
That
would
just
be
a
huge
increase
in
scale
because
essentially
you're
looking
at
20,
18,
more
sorry,
the
ones
that
self-operate
you'd
be
looking
at
24,
more
programs.
So
that
requires
comparing
those
with
the
three
we
have
now.
F
Okay
and
you
referenced
it
now,
moving
to
expenditures.
The
statute
allows
these
monies
to
go
toward
operating
the
office.
Is
that
correct.
E
Yes
and
just
be
clear
when
it
says
that
it
is
also
including
personnel,
so.
F
You
could
pay
for
salaries
with
that
as
well.
I
think
that
was
one
of
the
major
major
catalysts
of
getting
this
done
is
to
make
sure
that
we
had
enough
prosecutors
to
keep
our
our
community
safe.
The
you
you
mentioned
that
some
of
it
went
toward
paying
off
credit
card
bills.
Is
there
any
indication
that
those
credit
card
bills
weren't
initially
for
the
operation
of
the
offices.
E
I
am
not
familiar
with
that.
I
would
ask
apa
staff
because
they
are
available
that
was
found
during
their
analysis,
the
reading
of
the
report.
It
did
not
appear
to
me
that
it
was
for
operations
of
cats.
I
would
ask
of
them
just
to
be
sure,
but
did
not
appear.
F
Correctly
and
I'll
follow
up
with
you
auditor
there,
otter
public
account
staff,
okay,
yes,
okay,
we
have
a
question
from
representative
fleming.
C
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
gentlemen,
thank
you
very
much
for
the
report.
I've
I've
received
comments
from
the
past
on
this
particular
program.
It's
good
to
see
that
things
are
clean
and
I
expect
them
to
be
just
knowing
quite
a
few
counties
and
tuning
my
own
county
attorney
in
jefferson.
County
are
good
individuals
in
terms
of
making
sure
the
money
is
prudently
spent
and
programs
are
delivered.
I
want
to
ask
just
a
couple
of
questions,
or
maybe
one
question
and
I'm
just
trying
to
more
informational
purposes.
C
When
you
look
at
I'm
just
going
to
strictly
look
at
the
total
fee.
If
you
look
at
the
total
fee
and
you
take
out
the
vendor
and
the
aoc
and
the
finance
and
cabinet
I'm
looking
at
roughly-
and
I
just
randomly
picked
a
couple
of
counties
around
50
to
60
percent
of
the
remaining
funds
that
go
back
to
the
county
attorney
is
that
a
rough
idea
was
that
a
rough
number,
a
good
number.
E
Okay,
just
to
be
sure
which
numbers
are
you
looking
at,
because
there
is
some
confusion,
we're
we're
concerned
that
those
may
not
be
accurate
numbers.
So
I
want
to
make
sure
what
you're
looking
at
I'm
looking
at
a
total
fee
total
fee.
C
Yeah
totally
so
on
your
appendix
b,
okay,
so
nothing
I'll,
take
jefferson
county,
nothing,
penelope,
jefferson,
county,
but
jefferson
county
their
fee
is
244..
C
So
if
you,
if
you
back
out
the
drive
safe,
aoc
and
fna,
then
that
romanian
amount
goes
back
to
the
county
attorney's
office.
Is
that
correct,
yes,
and
that
equates
around
50
60
percent?
Is
that
fair
is
that?
Is
that
what
you
sort
of
sort
of
see.
E
I'm
I'm
saying
it
feels
about
right
to
me:
I'm
a
check
of
jacob
made
sure
it's
right
him.
C
Is
in
your
mind,
based
on
your
research,
is
that
is
that
typical
or
is
that
standard,
and
then,
when
you
say
reasonably
rate,
what
are
you
comparing
that
to?
What's
your?
What's
your
standard
rate,
I
mean:
what
does
that
mean.
H
Yeah
in
our
conversations
with
the
kcaa,
they
indicated
that
they
wanted
their
total
price
to
end
up
roughly
the
same
as
it
would
be
if
somebody
paid
their
ticket
to
be
competitive
essentially
and
stay
in
that
ballpark.
C
It
does
not
define
a
statute,
it's
not
defined,
okay.
Well,
I
just
more
of
a
curiosity
question
and
I
know
that
I
know
the
county
attorneys
that
have
a
lot
of
other
expenses
and
so
forth.
So
there
is
some
flexibility
for
them
to
reallocate
that.
So
so
that's
good
all
right!
Thank
you
very
much.
H
We
weren't
able
to
establish
any
clear
reasons
for
it
simply
that
there
are
no
contracts
being
used
at
this
time.
D
I
just
wonder
about
the
complexity,
since
I
believe
that
the
state,
when
it
the
state
school,
offers
or
requires
an
rfp.
So
I
wonder
about
that.
I'm
also
wondering
about
the
uniformity
of
the
cost.
I
know
you
said
that
the
the
fees
are
meant
to
be
less
than
going
to
court,
otherwise
people
would
probably
not
use
them.
Is
it
from
your
studies?
E
We
did
not
directly
compare
every
rate
in
the
state
with,
I
suppose
what
a
typical
fee
would
be.
They
don't
appear
to
be
massively
higher
than
that.
They
all
appear
to
be
in
a
pretty
reasonable
range.
You
find
fun.
H
D
Sure
were
you
able
to
determine
why
a
county
attorney,
a
particular
county
attorney,
went
with
one
vendor
as
opposed
to
the
other?
Was
they
just
had
a
feeling?
Was
there
any
documentation
that
one
is
better
than
the
other,
at
least
in
some
part
of
the
program.
H
The
curriculum
appeared
to
be
pretty
comparable.
There
were
different
areas
of
emphasis.
I
think
kcaa
representatives
might
be
able
to
fill
you
in
a
little
bit
more
on
reasons
for
picking
one
over
the
other
from
what
we
can
tell.
It
seems
like
personal
preference.
E
Now
the
costs
are
pretty
similar,
I
believe
there
one
is
35
one
is
40.,
so
you're
not
paying
a
huge
difference,
depending
on
who
you
pick.
D
E
Yes,
before
I
get
to,
I
do
want
to
clarify
something
very
quickly:
they
don't
have
written
agreements,
our
understanding
is,
they
have
verbal
agreements,
so
they
talk
about
the
general
idea
of
what
they
want
them
to
do
and
requirements
on
your
actual
question.
Yes,
you
could
go
back
and
forth,
there's
nothing
restricting
them
from
staying
with
a
certain
vendor
for
a
certain
number
of
years.
It's
entirely
what
they
want
to
do.
D
F
You,
mr
chairman,
I
would
note
that
there
are
three
chairman
beckler
that
use
that
our
report
found
that
use
both
so
that
that
is
done.
It
appears-
and
I
would
also
note
that
I,
that
my
county
attorney
sent
me
a
link
not
because
I
got
a
ticket
but
to
test
it
and
so
I've
tested
over
the
last
week
and
the
programs.
F
I
can't
look,
I'm
not
talking
about
120
counts,
I'm
talking
about
jefferson,
it
was
a
pretty
good
program
and
I
refreshed
myself
on
some
things
that
I
didn't
know
about,
and
so
you
know
the
counties
that
maybe
all
counties
that
have
it
are
doing
that
similar
program.
I
hope
they
are.
If
they're
not.
F
I
would
suggest
that
they
do
that,
but
you
know
we're
going
to
have
the
county
attorneys
come
up
in
just
a
minute
and
answer
some
of
the
questions
that
have
been
asked,
especially
from
representative
beckler,
and
I
know
there
are
some
more
so
hang
tight.
We
may
have
more
questions
for
for
you,
gentlemen,
but
I
think
I
don't
know
who's
leading
this.
Is
it
miss
old,
miss
tappy,
come
on
up
and,
and
you
have
the
floor.
I
This
never
ceases
to
be
less
intimidating
sitting
in
this,
this
spot,
I'm
stacy
tapke,
the
kenton
county
attorney
and
I'm
presently
the
president
of
our
kentucky
county,
attorneys
association-
and
I
have
with
me
here
today
our
president-elect,
jenny,
oldham
from
hardin
county
and,
as
you
mentioned,
we've
got
one
of
our
board
members
and
your
county
attorney
mike
o'connell
and,
I
believe
on.
Hopefully
virtually
we
have
joe
ross,
the
logan
county
attorney
as
well
as
martin
hatfield,
the
pulaski
county
attorney.
I
If
he
was
able
to
join
worth
noting
that
joe
and
martin
are
both
two
members
of
our
three
county
attorney
representatives
on
the
prosecutor
advisory
council,
so
that
I
think,
would
be
good
for
any
potential
recommendations.
As
far
as
pac
would
you
prefer?
I
I
provided
a
letter
to
the
committee
that
kind
of
goes
over
everything,
I'm
happy
to
go
over
that
again
or
if
you
would
prefer
to
just
kind
of
open
it
up
to
some
questions.
I
I
Okay,
great
the
the
high
points
for
this.
These
programs
are
sort
serve
two-fold
purposes.
The
first
is,
of
course,
the
driver.
The
motorist
is
getting
some
education.
I
don't
know
about
the
rest
of
you
all,
but
the
last
time
I
took
driver's
ed
was
when
I
was
16
years
old
got
my
driver's
license
and
it
was
out
the
door.
So
this
is
a
good
opportunity
and
I've
too,
I
use
advent.
I've
also
done
the
program,
so
I
know
it's
got
some
good
tips
about
defensive
driving,
some
other
techniques.
I
I
It
also
helps
supplement
the
funds
believe
it
or
not.
We
appreciate
all
that
you
give
us
to
prosecute
the
laws
that
you
passed.
It's
not
enough.
We
have
to
supplement
salaries.
I
think
jenny
could
tell
you
she
has
to
supplement
victim
advocates,
because
we
don't
have
enough
funding
to
get
the
prosecuting
job
done.
This
isn't
county
work.
This
is
prosecution,
work,
and
so
this
has
sort
of
replaced.
What
we
used
to
have
in
cold
checks,
as
you
can
imagine,
nobody's
writing
those
anymore.
So
this
has
helped.
I
I
think
my
numbers
that
were
provided
to
you
of
what
I
generate
are
a
little
off
in
the
attachment,
but
they
do
provide
some
revenue
and
some
relief.
The
other
thing
to
note
is
you
provide
me
three
thousand
dollars
to
operate
again,
my
prosecutorial
office,
so
my
I.t
bill's
fifteen
hundred
dollars
a
month,
so
you
can
see
how
we're
sort
of
forced
in
a
way
to
to
rely
upon
these
funds
and
delinquent
taxes.
I
So
that's
part
of
what
this
this
provides
and
there's
other
people
who
benefit
from
the
fee
allocation
as
well
our
deputy
clerks,
as
you
know,
I
know
they
appreciate
it.
Amongst
several
others,
one
thing
to
note
is
how
our
systems
work,
those
who
are
utilizing,
drive,
safe
and
also
advent.
I
I
give
it
to
you
this
way,
which
do
you
prefer.
Do
you
like
pork,
or
do
you
like
beef?
You
know
they're,
both
good
they've,
both
got
value
so,
which
is
your
preference,
because
when
I
look
at
the
two
vendors,
that's
what
I'm
looking
at
price,
wise,
they're,
very
comparable
part
of
it-
is
what
does
my
staff
want
to
do?
My
my
gal,
who
verifies
the
data?
She
likes
the
advent
system.
She
likes
the
platform.
I
Another
thing,
I
would
say
is
disagree
a
little
bit
with
the
finding
of
the
the
data
and
whether
or
not
you
can
rely
upon
it.
It's
our
staff
who
are
putting
the
data
in
so
just
so.
You
understand
when
they
see
the
citation
they're
checking
on
the
citation
to
make
sure
the
person
is
not
a
cdl
holder,
they're
checking
the
courtnet
system
to
see
what
the
driving
history
is,
they're,
verifying
and
putting
in
the
data
themselves
and
then
we're
able
to
generate
an
excel
spreadsheet.
I
That
gives
us
all
the
name,
the
citation
number
and
other
things.
So
we
are
able
to
verify
the
data
if
you
all
are
interested
in
a
higher
level
of
review
beyond
that
you're
going
to
have
to
probably
look
at
allocating
some
costs
to
do
that,
and
then
I
will
also
say
that
my
understanding
is
that
to
the
transfer
transportation
cabinet.
I
know
it's
been
mentioned
throughout
here.
We're
not
aware
that
this
was
something
that
was
was
being
sought
by
the
transportation
cabinet
itself.
I
We
confirmed
that,
but
we're
happy
to
work
with
whoever
on
whatever
I
think
the
pac
form.
That's
a
great
point.
I
think
we
could
definitely
amend
that
form
to
make
it
very
clear
what
the
fee
is.
I
charge
170
and
then
that
breaks
down.
You
know
you
got
25
30
and
then
the
other
the
vendor
fee
and
then
then
my
fee
as
well,
and
I
think
that's
pretty
consistent.
I
I
think
what
almost
90
of
our
counties
are
using
one
of
these
vendor
systems,
so
you're
seeing
consistency
there,
the
apa
we're
working
with
them
on
agreed-upon
procedures.
As
far
as
operating
expenses,
there
are
several
counties
myself
included.
I
already
pay
for
an
audit
audits
are
expensive,
as
you
can
imagine,
so
we
do
have
some
counties
that
have
an
operating
budget
of
25
000,
so
for
them
to
pay.
The
audit
cost
would
be
significant
to
their
budgets,
just
so
you're
aware,
but
we've
been
working
with
the
auditor's
office.
I
Anything
else,
I
think
I
recommend
ask
your
local
county
attorney,
go,
get
go
to
their
office.
Look
at
their
program.
Ask
them
what
they
do.
Ask
them
why
they
do
it.
I'm
sure
they'd
be
happy
to
show
you
the
program
and
and
how
it
fits
within
their
community,
because
that's
part
of
it
is
it's
some
places
it's
tailored
to
the
community,
I'm
on
the
interstate
right.
So
I'm
going
to
have
some
different
criteria.
I
So
we're
happy
to
partner,
you
know
we're
open,
transparent,
ready
to
provide
any
information,
that's
required,
and
if
you
have
any
questions,
we're
happy
to
to
do
that.
I
would
note
I
wrote
myself
a
little
note.
Last
year
there
was
it
looked
like
about
point:
zero,
zero,
zero,
eight
percent
of
the
participants
for
cdl
license
holders.
We
wish
that
number
was
zero
and
we're
not
quite
sure
how
that
occurred.
But
you
know
we
don't
think
that
the
risk
is
high.
I
D
D
When
these
two
programs
got
started,
they
were
kind
of
coming
from
different
places,
stacy
referenced
advent
and
cold
checks.
They
were
an
established
program
and
they
were
doing
cold
checks
before
that.
So
a
lot
of
offices
were
familiar
with
them
beforehand,
so
a
lot
of
people
probably
went
with
advent
for
just
having
a
known
quantity.
D
I
was
one
of
the
few
that
went
with
drive
safe
early
on,
and
that
was
largely
based
upon
the
fact
that
at
the
point
in
time
that
we
started
this,
they
were
one
dollar
cheaper,
which
I
have
no
doubt
was
competitive.
But
my
thought
was
one
dollar
saved
for
a
logan
county
and
is
a
good
thing,
so
I
made
the
choice
to
go
with
drive
safe
at
the
point
in
time
that
I
did
that.
D
I
think,
from
my
perspective,
in
a
small
office
to
have
both
vendors
for
this
type
of
thing,
because
my
staff
would
be
spending
more
time
trying
to
figure
out
which
vendor
to
use
and
which
not
and
the
whole
point
of
this
is
just
so.
We
can
staff
our
offices
to
a
point
that
we
can
do
our
main
job,
which
is
be
prosecutors,
and
the
reason
at
the
point
in
time
that
we
didn't
have
a
formal
contract
was,
I
was
going
with
an
unknown
quantity
and
an
upstart,
and
they
seemed
to
have
a
good
program.
D
But
I
wanted
an
opportunity
that,
if
I
needed
to
break
through
with
that
relationship
and
move
on,
I
had
as
much
leeway.
So
I
think
a
lot
of
those
decisions,
though,
might
not
have
been
what
you
all
would
have
preferred
were
done
with
good
intentions.
So
I
just
wanted
to
pass
that
along
from
somebody
who
kind
of
started
doing
this.
Only
after
the
2012
legislation.
G
There
we
go
so
from
my
perspective
from
hardin
county,
I'm
the
fifth
largest
county.
We
do
welcome
this
opportunity
to,
of
course
talk
about
our
budget
and
also
to
provide
any
information
we
can
from
my
budget.
G
G
Another
thing
to
keep
in
mind
the
evolution
of
these
programs.
Prior
to
having
these
programs
in
place.
We
still
have
the
discretion
to
dismiss
a
ticket.
You
know
we're
all
about
second
chances
and
an
opportunity
to
to
get
it
right
before
these
programs.
It
was
just
a
straight
dismissal.
You
didn't
have
the
educational
component,
so
that's
very
valuable
to
us.
We
are
checking
records.
We
want
to
make
sure
that
there's
learning
going
on,
but
we
also
are
interested
frankly
in
providing
people
second
chances
and
breaks
when
it's
appropriate.
G
Let's
see
there
was
something
oh
cdls,
and
there
is
a
very
small
percentage.
It
was
interesting
information
through
this
oversight
to
see
what
that
percentage
was
and,
as
stacy
said,
it's
very
tiny.
I
believe
that
probably
comes
from
out-of-state
cdl
drivers,
so
we
do
our
checks,
but
I
don't
know
that
there's
a
good
database
if
it's
not
marked
on
the
citation
for
us
to
know
that
there's
not
an
out
of
state
cdl
involved
and
we'll
answer
any
questions
you
have.
F
I
want
to
mention
two
things
quickly
number
one
is
your
budgets
are
pretty
complex.
I
don't
know
that.
We
really
all
fully
appreciate
that
you
said
45
of
your
of
your
personnel
cover
has
come
from
pac,
which,
which
is
a
good
thing
that
leaves
a
big
big
hole
in
your
personnel.
Also
with
respect
to
operating
costs.
We
give
you
three
thousand
dollars
a
year.
F
This
isn't
meant
to
be
a
joke,
but
I
have
six
lawyers
in
my
firm
and
I
I
think
we
spend
more
than
three
thousand
dollars
on
printing
and
toner
and
that's
not
a
joke.
That's.
F
Yeah
I
mean
we
live
off
the
written
word
and
the
printer
is
important.
So
so
that's
something
that
other
committees
need
to
look
at.
This
is
not
a
budget
committee,
and
I
know
that
this
program
was
designed
to
help
not
only
personnel
costs
but
those
types
of
things.
So
I
think
that's
important
to
remember,
but
I
do
want
to
say
you
know
chairman
carol
and
I
have
very
briefly,
very
briefly,
discussed
working
together
on
some
legislation
on
this.
I
want
to
highlight
and
get
your
particular
comments
on
recommendation
3.2.
F
F
And
all
3.2
does
and
it'll
come
up
on
the
screen
is
it?
Is
it
says
that
we're
going
to?
We
recommend
that
the
prosecutors,
the
county
attorneys
work
with
all
the
groups
that
are
mentioned-
auditor
pac
so
forth
to
to
craft
some
legislation
to
improve
this
process.
F
I
don't
think
there's
there's
problems
for
integrity
or
intent
or
anything
of
that
nature,
but
I
know
that
my
two
county
attorneys
mike
o'connell
and
mr
mr
and
john
carter
john's
not
running
for
election.
I
don't
know
if
mike
is
not.
I
assume
he
is.
I
think
he
is.
I
don't
know
how
long
they'll
be
there.
I
have
confidence
in
them.
I
don't
know
who
the
next
ones
will
be
and
that's
true
in
120
counties.
F
So
it's
important
that
we
have
protocols
in
place
to
make
sure
that
those
types
of
things
the
people
in
jefferson,
county
and
odom
county
all
across
the
commonwealth
are
protected
in
the
future.
A
lot
of
money
go
through
these
programs,
and
that
has
to
be
acknowledged
so
that
we
need.
We
need
to
make
sure
that
we
have.
The
proper
protocols
in
place
so
is,
is
the
is
the
county
attorney
association?
I
So
this
is
a
reminder
that
we're
going
to
look
for
internal
control,
part
of
what
the
auditor's
office
and
we
have
talked
about
is
we
need
to
know
what
our
120
counties
have
as
far
as
operating
expenses,
for
example,
you
know
what
I
can
tell
you
what
kenton
county
had.
I
don't
remember
the
number
today,
but
I
do
an
audit,
so
you
can
see
everything
and
I'm
a
third
third
largest
county.
I
We've
we've
been
talking
about
a
lot
of
options
like
maybe
you
adopted
a
special
purpose
government
entity
style
review,
depending
on
the
amount
of
budget,
that
kind
of
a
thing,
but
we've
been
committed
to
that
process
over
we've
been
working
on
it,
since
I
think,
seems
like
forever,
but
we've
been
working
on
it
because
we're
trying
to
balance
all
of
those
things.
F
I
wonder
if
we
can
make
forever
conclude
before
april
15
2022.,
the
only
leader
jenkins,
was
on
this
committee
in
2012,
and
I
know
she
wants
to
make
sure
that
we,
I
think,
I'm
speaking
for
we've
not
spoken
about
it.
I'm
sure
she
wants
to
make
sure
that
it,
the
intent
that
they
pat
when
they
passed
in
2012,
is
a
fully
effectuated
with
protections
for
the
public,
both
in
safety
on
the
roads
and
and
monetarily.
I
I
F
F
C
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
I
asked
his
question.
My
staff
might
have
more
insight.
I
know
the
different
vendors
that
are
used
have
curriculum
and
so
forth,
but
I
couldn't
gather
or
find
information
on
the
folks
that
are
doing
self-operating.
Do
they
have
like
a
curriculum.
I
I
He
I
think,
has
run
that
program
for
quite
some
time,
he'd
be
better
to
tell
you
but
partners
with
law
enforcement.
They
do
more
of
an
in-person
henderson
county.
I
know
again
there's
a
prosecutor
and
law
enforcement
that
are
doing
kind
of
a
more
in
person
other
than
that
I
didn't,
since
the
overwhelming
majority
of
us
use
a
vendor,
I'm
not
as
familiar
with
the
communities
that
are
doing
self-run
programs.
C
Yeah
there's
23
of
them.
I
believe
and
there's
like
the
staff
said,
there's
18
that
are
don't
have
a
program
at
all
and
I'm
just
curious.
You
know
with
with
the
program
or
the
criteria
or
curriculum,
I
should
say
of
those
self-operating
systems
have
and
so
forth,
so
because
I've
I've
heard
anecdotally
that
you
just
want
to
check
in
and
that's
it
you
know
you
don't
go
through
any
cr
curriculum
or
anything
like
that.
You
know
so
you
know
it's
it's
an
easy
way
to
do
that.
So
I'm
just
curious.
I
Yeah,
I
know,
like
I
said,
I'm
not
as
familiar
that
may
be
a
diversion
program
you're
talking
about
where
you
have
to
not
get
another
ticket
and
they
have
to
monitor
you.
So
you
would
be
checking
every
month
to
make
sure
week
to
make
sure
that
the
person
who
was
cited
doesn't
pick
up
another
citation
because
there's
a
diversion
tactic
in
that,
because
every
time
you
think
about
running
that
red
light
you
are
reminded.
I
can't
do
that.
I
F
The
self-operated
I
would
like
to
get
a
list
of
the
counties
that
have
the
self-operated.
I
wouldn't
know
that
doesn't
mean
they
don't
have
a
program.
It
just
means
they
don't
use
one
of
the
two
and
also,
I
would
also
say
the
diversion
is
used
all
across
the
law.
I
know
we
don't
have
a
lot
of
lawyers
in
the
general
assembly
anymore,
but
diversi
that
there's
nothing
wrong
with
the
version.
It's
not
like
it's
a
win-win,
not
a
real
thing.
It
we
use
it
for
drug
offenses
for
criminal
for
violence.
F
We
use
it
all
across
the
board,
and
so
the
word
diversion
is
not
something
like
nothing
is
happening.
Just
wanted.
To
mention
that
I
know
a
lot
of
citizens
think.
Well,
I
just
pay
the
money
and
I
don't
have
to
do
anything
well,
if
you
reoffend,
it
can
be
used
against
you
again
in
the
future,
and
we
do
that
all
across
criminal
law,
including
a
traffic
representative,
blanton.
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
just
a
quick
comment.
If
I
may.
Yes,
sir
I'd
like
to
thank
you,
mr
chairman,
for
digging
into
this
issue
further
for
the
lrc
staff
and
their
diligent
work
and
for
the
county,
attorneys
association.
B
So
essentially,
what
we
are
doing
here
and
have
did
here
today
is
to
look
into
misinformation,
whether
intentional
or
unintentional,
I'm
not
going
to
judge
that
was
put
out
about
some
of
our
county
attorneys
in
this
commonwealth
and
what
the
research
has
shown.
The
investigation
has
shown
just
what
I
thought
it
would
show,
and
that
was
they're
not
doing
anything
outside
of
statute.
B
That's
already
sitting
there.
That's
permissible
for
them
now
may
have
highlighted
a
few
things
that
make
it
better.
I
don't
know
I'll.
Let
the
county,
attorney's
association
them
decide
that,
but
I
just
want
to
thank
you
all
for
for
looking
into
this
and
protecting
the
name
of
my
county
attorneys.
That's
doing
what
they
need
to
do
to
provide
good
service
to
the
people
of
commonwealth
and
I'll
leave
with
that.
Thank
you.
F
F
Thank
you
very
much,
so
next
we're
going
to
I'm
going
to
ask
miss
one
horse
to
come
up
to
the
table
and
you
have,
I
think
yes,
and
while
you
guys
are
coming
up
to
the
table,
I
think
miss
cook
is
with
you,
while
you,
where
you're
sitting
down
we're
going
to
what's
that
mac,
ms
mac
mix
mac,
thank
you
whoops.
I'm
sorry,
I'm
going
to
I'm
going
to
ask
for
a
motion
to
adopt
the
recommendation
of
the
of
the
of
the
staff
that.
C
F
B
G
D
G
F
G
E
F
F
F
J
Okay,
first
I'd
like
to
introduce
myself
for
those
of
you
who
do
not
know
me.
My
name
is
lois
windhorst
in
1981
I
founded
the
first
chapter
of
mothers
against
drunk
driving
here
in
kentucky.
J
J
J
I
had
and
decided
that
I
would
continue
to
volunteer
for
mad.
It
has
been
my
life's
work.
I
tell
people
that
impaired
driving.
It
didn't
affect
me
until
june
of
1980,
when
we
lost
two
family
members
to
a
repeat
offender
impaired
driver
so
once
it
affects
you
at
least
for
me,
I
could
not
turn
my
back.
J
I
was
not
well.
I
was
aware
of
the
bail
project.
I
thought
they
bailed
out
protesters
and
different
ones,
but
I
really
didn't
know
anything
about
them
at
6
30.
On
monday
evening,
on
dixie
highway,
there
was
a
17
year
old
girl
who
was
on
her
way
home.
She
had
just
dropped
her
brother
at
his
baseball
practice.
J
J
J
J
So
with
madeline,
it
wasn't
a
ripple
effect.
It
was
a
tsunami
for
our
community.
My
phone
started
ringing
tuesday
morning
at
6
30
in
the
morning.
People
who
know
me
calling
me
about
madeline
that
evening
we
went
to
a
candlelight
vigil
where
I
am
not
exaggerating:
hundreds
of
people
I
came
out
to
support
the
family.
J
J
J
J
At
that
point
I
didn't
know
much
about
the
offender,
except
for
that
he
was
impaired.
He
kept
driving
and
hit
a
pole
after
crashing
into
madeleine's
car.
He
jumped
out,
took
off
running
and
it
took
some
men
from
the
autozone
and
a
used
car
salesman
there
on
dixie.
They
chased
him
down
and
tackled
him
in
a
field
and
held
him
to
the
police
got
there.
J
J
They
recognized
him
because
of
his
former
arrest,
the
police
officer
called
for
backup.
It
took
three
police
officers
to
arrest
him.
He
injured
one
of
the
police
officers,
the
car
that
he
had
been
driving
was
stolen,
but
he
was
outside
of
the
car,
so
he
wasn't
charged
with
impaired
driving.
At
that
point
he
had
guns
that
he
had
stolen,
and
so
now
he
was
back
in
jail
for
more
charges.
J
J
I
also
found
out
that
his
day
of
crime
actually
started
in
shelby
county
kentucky.
He
stole
a
car,
he
stole
guns,
shelby
county
police
were
in
pursuit
of
this
man.
Instead
of
catching
him,
he
pulled
off
on
a
medium
as
he
crossed
into
jefferson
county
there.
On
64
going
west,
they
had
called
for
the
louisville
metro
police
department
to
assist.
J
J
J
J
I
found
out
that
they
had
posted
a
five
thousand
dollar
cash
bond
and
through
research
I
found
out
the
average
bond
they
post
in
jefferson.
County
is
probably
about
thirty
five
hundred
dollars
average.
J
So
then
I
did
more
research
and
I
found
out
that-
and
it
was
for
all
the
right
reasons.
This
non-profit
was
formed
where
people
who
didn't
have
the
bail
money
and
had
done
crimes
that
were
not
violent,
and
that
was
the
beginning
that
they
would
get
out
of
jail
instead
of
sitting
there
if
they
couldn't
post
a
500
bond.
J
So
with
that
being
said,
I
started
doing
more
research
I
found
in
2019
in
st
louis,
they
had
put
up
bail
for
a
domestic,
violent
offender
who
had
beat
his
wife
within
an
inch
of
her
life
as
soon
as
they
put
up
the
bail,
which
was
again
five
thousand
dollars,
he
left
the
jail
went
straight
to
the
house.
He
beat
her
again
this
time
she
didn't
make
it
so
in
kentucky.
J
Currently,
we
have
three
different
bell:
funds
working
in
1976,
the
general
assembly
eliminated
bail,
bondsmen
and
in
2011
there
were
updates
to
current
statutes
of
releasing
offenders
with
low
to
moderate
risk
scores
from
after
pre-trial
hearings,
governor
beshear
when
he
was
elected,
the
governor
of
the
commonwealth
january,
the
1st
2020.
J
J
J
J
J
In
these
cases
nobody
has
skin
in
the
games.
Yes,
if
they
go
to
court,
eventually
they'll
get
their
money
back.
These
projects
will
so
it
is
very
disheartening
because
I
always
say
that
impaired
driving
is
a
hundred
percent
preventable
and
let
me
tell
you
there
is
make
no
mistake:
the
death
of
madeline
could
have
been
prevented.
Had
it
not
been
for
the
bail
being
put
up
for
this
man,
you
know
with
criminal
cases,
there's
three
types
of
violations.
J
J
The
felonies
are
where
the
bad
offenders
fall
into.
These
are
people
who
have
rape,
domestic
violence,
and
I
don't
talk
about
smacking,
someone,
I'm
talking
about
beatings
and
one
of
the
things
we
found
out.
The
third
group
that
operates
in
louisville
kentucky
is
called
the
louisville
community
bail
fund,
this
bail
fund.
J
K
My
brother
didn't
ask
to
leave
this
earth.
He
got
shot
executed
out
about
a
lady
that
out
home
bond
and
she's
still
walking
the
streets.
We
not
been
a
quit
so
many
times
and
then
laid
it
over
laid
it
over
we're,
still
waiting
and
and
it's
rough
for
our
family,
because
his
mom
is
upset
because
she
has
now
forced
aids
counsel
and
it's
done
spread
it
out
through
her
whole
body
and
she
might
not
even
make
it
for
the
court
hearing
come
next
month.
K
You
know
so
it's
a
struggle
for
us
and
my
family
every
day,
because
we
used
to
him
being
there
all
the
time
you
know
he
knocks
on
the
door
every
day
when
he
get
up.
I
know
his
time,
I'm
up
at
his
time
every
day
you
know,
and
he
didn't
ask
to
do
that
and
it's
on
camera
some
film
everything
they
got
witnesses
and
everything,
and
it's
still
ain't,
nothing
being
done
about
it.
You
know
who
they
had
a
birthday.
We
done
had
virgil
stuff
for
him.
K
F
So
miss
mac,
it's
my
understanding
that
the
person
that
has
been
apprehended
for
murdering
your
brother,
yes,
was
released
on
a
50
000.
Full
cash
bond
that
was
paid
for
by
the
bell
fund.
Is
that
correct?
Yes,
and
that.
J
Was
the
louisville
community
bail
fund
in
october,
in
one
of
our
circuit
divisions
they
actually
the
judge
they
had
put
up
30
000
cash
for
an
individual
who
was
actually
involved
in
a
shooting
drug
dealing,
everything
they
put
him
on
h.I.p
and
when
they
went
out
to
the
house,
the
folks
from
h.I.p
to
check
on
him.
He
was
running
his
business
as
usual
scales,
the
money
everything.
J
J
I
don't
know
if
the
the
national
arm
of
the
bell
project
knew
of
all
the
convictions
and
everything
going
on
in
ohio
with
the
man
who
killed
madeline
and
now
used
to,
and
I
have
a
binder
sitting
on
the
floor.
That
is
full
of
cases
and
what
we
found
was
that
probably
50
to
60
percent
of
the
cases
where
bail
money
has
been
put
up.
They
are
violent
offenders,
rape,
child
pornography,
you
name
it
it's
in
there.
J
And
you
know
again,
I
have
no
problem
if
it's
a
misdemeanor,
but
when
you're
talking
about
a
bail
project
that
raised
millions
of
dollars
and
out
in
our
communities
putting
up
hundred
thousand
dollar
cash.
Fifty
thousand
dollar
cash-
thirty
thousand
dollar
cash.
There
is
something
that
needs
to
be
looked
at
by
the
general
assembly
to
protect
the
citizens
of
the
commonwealth,
and
I
understand
why
bail
is
there
and
I
have
to
tell
victims
every
day
why
it's
in
place,
but
the
max
didn't
even
know
that
50
000
had
been
put
out.
F
J
F
That
would
take
constitutional
amendment.
That's
not
the
effort
here.
My
understanding
is
these
groups
are
raising
a
lot
of
money,
and
so
it
seemed
to
me
that
we
need
to
know
ensure
that
that
money
being
raised
for
the
purpose
of
bella's
is
being
expended
appropriately
and
not
for
the
personal
benefit
of
the
folks
running
the
organizations
we
also.
My
understanding
is
the
type
of
offense
that
we're
talking
about
is
not
the
minor
types
for
which
these
programs
say
that
they
exist.
F
F
That's
that's
my
understanding
and,
and
I
what
I'm
hearing
you
say
is
that
you
think
that
we
should
put
road
map
or
put
put
put
restrictions
in
place
if
we're
going
to
allow
these
organizations
to
do
these
types
of
things
in
kentucky
to
make
sure
that
you
can
do
it
for
these
offenses,
but
not
these
other
offenses
and
then
here's
some
other
parameters
for
the
protection
of
the
public.
Is
that
what
yeah.
J
He
had
injured
a
police
officer,
he
had
been
charged
with
third
degree
assault.
He
had
been
charged
with
robbing
a
robbery
over
10,
000
and
being
a
convicted
felon,
you
know
and
having
guns
and
they
were
stolen
and
that
fast
he
was
out
to
do
this
to
madeleine
and
in
madeleine's
name.
That's
what
we
are
asking
for
are
some
guidelines
on
this.
B
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
Thank
you
all
for
coming
today,
I've
been
through
your
binder.
I've
got
many
hours,
sifting
through
the
binder
and
you're
right
and
unfortunately,
the
commonwealth
has
had
has
been
infiltrated.
B
They
don't
care
that
the
people
they're
bailing
out
are
appearing
for
court.
They
don't
care
whether
or
not
they're
reoffending.
They
don't
care
to
lose
the
money
that
they
put
up.
Okay,
that's
they
raise
millions
of
dollars
for
this
very
thing,
and
what
do
we
do?
We
turn
those
that
are
endangering
our
citizenry
of
this
commonwealth.
We
just
turn
them
right
back
out
on
the
streets
and
while
they
do
they're
costing
our
citizens
lives.
B
No
regard
for
for
for
human
life
whatsoever,
we're
not
talking
about
a
thousand
dollar
bond
of
somebody
that
can't
get
out
on
some
kind
of
we're,
talking,
thirty
thousand
fifty
thousand
dollar
bonds
and
and
and
I'm
like
the
chairman,
you
know
my
understanding
of
of
a
bond
to
begin
with,
of
the
person
that
is
putting
up
the
bond.
Is
that
you're,
taking
some
type
of
responsibility
to
ensure
that
one
they
are
not
reoffending
and
two
they
show
up
for
court.
B
B
B
J
Could
I
add
something
because
we
could
go
down
to
court
and
david
nichols
office,
our
clerk's
office?
We
could
pull
the
bonds
posted
and
we
could
see
the
bail
project
which
the
national
arm
or
the
chapter
that
is
in
jefferson
county,
but
the
third
one,
the
louisville
community
bail
fund
they're
no
longer
putting
their
names
when
they
post
bail
the
name
of
their
organization.
J
D
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
and
I
you
know,
I
have
to
say
that
somewhat
appalling
what
I'm
hearing
and
but
I
can't
say
that
I'm
surprised
by
this
a
couple
questions
that
I
have
d.
Have
you
all
done
any
research
and-
and
I
know
that
representative
blanton
mentioned
some
of
the
donors-
do
we
know
who
is
donating
to
these
organizations?
D
J
Well,
if
you
go
on
the
bail
project's
website,
the
national
arm
or
the
local
arm,
I
do
know
that
the
university
of
louisville,
the
ann
baden,
I
think
it's
called
biden
anyway.
They
are
one
of
the
sponsors.
I
don't
know
if
they've
donated
money
or
what
they
have
done,
but
you
can't
see
it
the
breakout
of
who
is
donating
or
what
have
you,
the
louisville
community
bail
fund?
D
And-
and
you
said
that
are
all
of
these
groups-
not
for
profits,
501.
J
The
chapter
of
the
national
arm
in
louisville
is
a
not-for-profit
and,
to
be
honest
with
you
all
I
can
tell
you
is
the
third
one,
the
louisville
community
bell
fund.
When
you
go
on
michael
adams,
page
or
whatever,
and
you
look
them
up,
they
call
themselves
a
limited
liability
company
or
an
assumed
corporation.
D
Right,
thank
you
and
mr
chair
just
one
final
question.
I
guess
it
being
not
for
profits
I'd.
D
I
struggled
to
see
how
it
would
be
acceptable
for
a
loss
if,
if
the
bail
were
to
be
forfeited
and
that
being
a
proper
expenditure
to
a
not-for-profit-
and
I
don't
know
the
what
federal
regulations
under
501c3
would
cover
that.
But
and
I
have
no
doubts,
these
organizations
have
researched
the
legalities
of
it,
but
I
think
it's
obvious
they're
trying
to
to
work
around
our
system
and
representative
blanton.
Mr
chairman,
I
would
be
more
than
happy
to
help
with
this
on
the
senate
side
to
get
some
parameters
put
on
these
folks.
D
F
D
F
Thank
you,
mr
chairman,
representative
blanton
is
fronting
that
issue,
so
we'll
I'll
ask
you
to
work
directly
with
him.
I'm
also
helping
him
as
a
wingman
in
this
in
this
issue.
I
would
note
that
these
organizations,
their
donors,
probably
don't
know
who
they're,
who
they're
getting
out
of
jail,
they're,
probably
trying
to
do
good
things,
which
is
what
all
of
us
support,
and
that
is
to
get
people
who
don't
have
the
money
out
of
jail
who
are
charged
with
with
smaller
crimes.
Representative
fleming.
C
Thank
you,
mr
chairman.
First
of
all,
sorry
for
your
loss,
that's
that's
something
that
I
would
totally
agree
that
it's
not,
it
should
not
have
happened,
because
obviously
there
is
a
failure
in
the
system
and
unfortunately
you
were
you're
affected
by
that
and
I
apologize
that
you
had
to
go
through
all
that.
C
I
wanted
to
ask
actually
one.
I
know
there
is
a
website
non-profit
website
that
lists
donors-
maybe
not
all
of
them,
but
a
fair
portion
called
guy
star
it
might
they
may
or
may
not
have
it,
but
all
non-profits
need
to
report
990s
and
other
things
that
pertain
to
that,
and
so
you
might
want
to
check
that
out
and
see
if
there's
any
information
on
those
organizations
you
come
across.
C
I
do
want
to
ask
you
this,
and
I
appreciate
representative
blanton
taking
a
lead
and
representing
the
chairman
nemus
looking
at
this
and
I'm
sure
they've
gotten
some
things
structured,
but
I'm
not
aware
of
that.
But
what
suggestions
or
thoughts
in
terms
of
putting
some
criterias
or
requirements
that
we
need
to
consider
in
drafting
a
bill
to
rein
in
and
control
and
monitor
the
the
operations
of
these
organizations
to
make
sure
they're
fulfilling
their
mission
and
not
sitting
there
abusing
it
and
circumventing
the
situation.
J
Well,
just
from
trying
to
look
at
things
myself,
I
think
it's
very
important
that
when
you
go
into
the
courthouse
to
set
up
bail
for
somebody
that
you
have
to
put
your
organization's
name
plus
the
person
carrying
the
money
in
to
do
it,
I
mean,
I
think,
that's
important.
If
someone
wants
to
go
back
and
look,
but
more
importantly,
is
actually
who
can
they
put
up
the
bail
for
how
much
money
can
be
put
up
on
a
bail?
You
know
I
I
just
these
domestic
violence
cases,
the
murder
cases.
J
J
J
J
J
Didn't
get
passed,
but
in
the
past
two
months
two
women
have
lost
their
lives
because
the
national
bell
project
came
in
bonded
out
the
individuals
and
they
went
straight
to
their
victims
and
shot
them
both
both
of
them.
That's
two
women
in
two
months
in
indy,
so
it's
not
just
happening
here
in
kentucky
it's
in
other
places
too,
and
it
the
criteria
that
you
look
at
and
again
they
have
no
skin
in
the
game.
J
F
J
F
That's
why
they're
not
building
them
out
yeah
these
organizations,
don't
know
don't
do
the
background
check
may
not
even
know
the
offense
and
miss
mac.
Thank
you
for
coming.
Your
testimony
was
eloquent
and
moving
the
judge
tried
to
protect
your
family.
Fifty
thousand
cash
bond
is
high.
The
judge
did
what
the
judge
should
have
done.
They
were
required
to
post
bail
in
kentucky
and
or
put
a
bill
and
put
a
put
a
a
bail
amount
on
on
defendants
in
kentucky
unless
their
capital
fences
and
their
significant
evidence.
F
F
F
All
right,
we
will
be
working
on
this
issue
and
thank
you
for
bringing
it
to
our
attention.
It's
an
important
issue
that
we
should
be
able
to
tackle
in
in
2022.