keptn Community, 3 Mar 2022

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From YouTube: Keptn Community & Developer Meeting - Mar 03, 2022

Description

Discussion of the Keptn enhancement ideas with Adam Gardner, and also conversation on how we improve the process of submitting and discussing new ideas. GitHub Discussions vs. Issues, how we use Keptn Enhancement Proposals, etc. Then we discussed reviews on ArtifactHub and how we facilitate them. In the end, Oleg Nenashev provided updates regarding Keptn incubation and Google Summer of Code.

Meeting notes: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1y7a6uaN8fwFJ7IRnvtxSfgz-OGFq6u7bKN6F7NDxKPg/edit

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A

Hello today we are doing meetings thanks to adam and alan for joining um and let's take a look at our agenda.

A

So what do we have? We, I put items for captain and g-shock captain information and also I don't put a bunch of items.

A

Should talk about the 13.1 release and it goes for today.

A

So I don't know if you want, we can start from these items.

B

Okay, yeah um so yeah they're, basically um some discussions and some items that I have raised um and if anyone in apac on the call or later who's watching the the recording um wants to uh tackle these I'm happy to kind of help and sponsor and mentor you know uh through through through getting them in. So this first one um is about uh yeah, as you can see, different shield badges uh for captains. So there's a way you can um include those and the quality is just the quality gate output. It's just one example.

B

um So, basically.

A

It would be a part of either captain bridge or epa service right, yeah, actually, yeah.

A

One thing so I definitely support this idea. It actually opens question whether it should be discussion or a github issue right away, but yeah yeah in principle. It would be super useful to have it.

B

So the next one on the list.

B

uh This was being worked on and I think um afsar's had to drop off and budgie, so we're looking for some more contributors to this. um I think ourselves a bit too busy at the moment. Unfortunately, so this is um the idea that we're going to expand the captain cli to trigger any sequence, not just the delivery and the valuation.

A

Tasks, so one of examples could be manually trigger auto remediation. If you see that something is completely wrong, slides don't arrive, but you can actually trigger it manually right, correct, yeah,.

B

Look into cli development- that's that's a good one for for you to get started with the next one on the list.

A

Yeah, so maybe for that a good item would be to just start creating issues, so there is even a button for that. Okay, basically creating refuse. uh Maybe adding some items like health wanted, so help quantity is what is the text is not exactly correct so how github uses it? He is basically saying that we are looking for contributors to that. If it's newcomer friendly issue, what would be also awesome to have a good first issue?

A

I'm not sure whether it's a newcomer one, probably not, but yeah. So generally, it would be nice to start creating these items because.

B

That brings up a question actually well. First of all, we can't add, uh we can't add labels. I think that's only for admins of of the repository, so um we can obviously create the issues, but then you'd have to go in and add the labels, um but how do we want to use discussions versus issues in? In that context? I.

A

Think that any request for enhancement, which is quite straightforward, so I want to as a user. I want to see feature like that. I think it should go to issues because somebody could work on that. You can reference them and for discussions, it's another topic which really needs, for example, uh brainstorming, etc.

A

So when you don't have particular solution, you're ready to propose or but when you want to discuss the things. Obviously, here everything is quite a mix.

A

Personally, I'm not a big fan of github discussions at all, so they're, not all integrated with the rest of the ecosystem. In my opinion,.

A

Start moving, it.

A

Watch and you have to watch it to be subscribed um yeah.

A

So, regarding uh your comment about uh labels, etc, I think that, firstly, you can create it that and then somebody has to transition them, but what we already discussed in the community uh so.

A

It's basically introducing the default issue templates for the repositories which is currently lacking, for example, in captain core. I created it in captain sandbox, uh so.

A

So there is a github repository which uh provides some issue templates, so it goes across the entire organization, and currently I use all the format of issue templates that create issues like that. For example, I can show it to you, you create a new issue and basically you get a dialogue. You want default feature request recommendation.

A

If you create these tickets, uh the label gets automatically also added metadata for security and captain slot. So just a few pointers here and there, for example, if you create bug report, it automatically puts the label there.

A

So this is what I want to introduce, and actually I returned back to that. So maybe you have seen hub repository as johanna has to create and I would destroy all other things, but actually returned to that just a few days ago. So trying to initiate these profiles.

A

So if you want to contribute, it would be nice and what it makes sense uh to show that actually in the recent versions of github issues, you get also a dialogue, for example, in the jenkins community.

A

He created uh help desk uh using these forms. So, for example, here, uh if you want to request github permissions, you get the kind of follow form you fill out. So it's not even plain text and you can see that some fields are mandatory. Some are not.

A

You can get the drop downs et cetera. So basically it would be super useful if we introduce something like that in captain.

B

Yeah, absolutely that's that'll be that'll, be really good, because I was a bit concerned if we just um have a solution, but we plow everything into issues. It'll um it'll get quite cluttered, um so I was keeping things in discussion, but that kind of makes sense. If there's an already, if there's a yeah, if there's a concrete idea of how to solve something, it's probably an issue or rfe, um you know, and then, if it's just a general discussion, it's in discussions that that kind of makes sense to me so.

A

Our program that it's already quite utter and all engines, we have twenty thousand open issues, so this is nothing that bad, but still there is quite a lot of them and yes, some of them are created automatically.

A

You can see the applications have been pushed by github actions, etc. So it already requires some uh work, but at least it's there because, for example, personally, I don't actually look at discussions, because even the traditional issues and slack is just not for me- you can make capacity but you're different right, good things get proposed there.

A

So what you proposed for badges for uh triggering all of that are totally rigid things and if you put them as issues, if you put a metadata like help, wanted, etc, it actually becomes much better and then here I believe that now it supports so yeah, even here 28 issues, it needs help, so you click there and you can see that health wanted with first issues etc. So we have already gets this metadata and the moreover, well it's just useful. Also there is technology search.

A

So if you're looking for new issues for golang et cetera on github, then it will periodically suggest captain tickets as well. It's a way to get more contributors to speeding. Oh, it adds some traffic.

C

Cool excellent.

A

So thanks a lot for that and you're sorry for the detour, but additional support for workforce also plus 100.

B

Yeah pretty self-explanatory.

A

And we also have caps right yeah, so.

A

So narrate multiple api tokens. uh It would be really awesome, especially when you have permission scopes, because, uh assuming that you have permission model etc, you may want to have one topic that is read on one token, that is written, that they can trigger things another token for administration, these different scopes and permission models. So I think that it would be really nice if you put it to there.

A

Okay again, it raises the question whether it should be a pull request or again github issue. What do you think? Because you make a proposal uh here in cap, because you want to get feedback right.

B

Well, actually, if you look at the issue template basically the contributing guide says at the moment, you can do either you can do a pull request or raise an issue, um so I've kind of done both and and it's just yeah just trying to figure out what what happens why you know? Why would I do a pull request versus an issue um or vice versa? So um so the ideas are kind of all over the place at the moment um that I've been generating, um but.

A

Yeah so well through the same uh in other communities, bigger ones like james, so my suggestion would be to use one location.

A

It helped wishes for everything where we just have a proposal where we need to work on them, so discussions rather for abstract ideas, which can be broken down to a number of issues later and for enhancement proposals. Personally, I would rather consider it as a way of recommending the decisions, so we have an issue we discuss how we would like to implement that creating specification for that, and then we can have this specification, a capital enhancement proposal just for discussion without technical implementation, etc.

A

I'm not sure which it fits because yeah this one is basically okay. It's for the issue, in my opinion, so once you have, let's say 10 pages of specification describing how it would be implemented with people providing technical feedback that, yes,.

B

Yeah, I I agree and for another reason as well, because if, if you're, if you're new to not only captain- but you know this- this whole thing- you might you just- you want to get started as simply as possible and to me an issue is the simplest way to do that, um whereas a pull request can can it just adds a layer of difficulty that I don't think it warrants at that stage, you're right once you get down to okay, we're actually going to work on this, and this is concrete and we've got some ideas here.

B

We're going to start work then may yeah it becomes a pull request, but but just as kind of a here's, an idea I just want to get that in there and either get. I just want to get feedback. It might get rejected. So I don't want to go to that extra work of pull requests. Yeah.

A

So, in this case yeah I would suggest just be completion and you're closing github issues when rejecting is also important, because otherwise settings get cluttered, but all the reasonable ideas, I think, should be open major ideas. You want to work on and they could be edited on the roadmap so but yeah. Basically, this one right now with a rather big bad backlog of things, just that drives giovanni johannes and me crazy.

A

When you look at that, but it's part of our job so yeah, it's basically a job of product managers to get it started to fight with all this backlog. But right now, I'm pretty sure that nobody looks at discussions here. I create some issues based on help, discussions etc, but it's hard to handle so many channels.

A

And arguably so it's my personal opinion and I don't understand why we use this approach for capex, because all the content stays in uh pull requests. So unless you know where this request is located, you can read specifications etc.

A

I know that we basically took it from open telemetry, which again kind of makes makes sense uh in jenkins. We actually inherited a python approach, so in jenkins, we have sorry that they reference objects all over the place that just came from these communities so.

A

So here how we do use it and how, for example, python uses um instead of doing this infinite pull request, we actually have um visitors again with proposals and, for example, you can see that some proposals accepted some proposals are in front stage. So, for example, if you open subject in a draft state, you can see that there is some metadata you give us, but basically you can do the same markdown, and here we explicitly say that the status is a draft.

A

So it's basically open for discussion, feedback, we'll say discussion channels there when it's outside of the developer managers and basically these ideas all are incremental until the community wants to accept them. So you can see that there are some uh full requests uh going in uh but yeah. For me it seems to be a bit more natural, but then now what we're using in caps right now, it's something to discuss in the community later.

A

They would like to see children.

A

Only advantage of me think that you get a cool open graph when you reference it in social media. That's it.

A

Dashboard and this one's probably the same rate policy sequences.

B

That that one's more around yeah as it says that um restricting sequences for certain criteria.

A

Yeah and actually it also raises a good question, because we use enhancement, proposals issues for that. So it's another discussion, uh channel yeah that that is mostly used by you, yeah yeah, I'm not really sure where things go. uh Maybe it's something we need to actually define, because if you don't know where to put it, uh then nobody else also knows to put it yeah.

B

Well, it's not so much actually that there I don't. There are multiple channels of where it could go. That's actually the problem. um You could do an issue in there's like four different places that things could go so just tightening up where things go and why they go there and then that's, that's obviously very clear.

A

B

Yeah because, in the main repo we have um issues, we have discussions and then in the captain enhancement proposals we have, you can raise a pr and you can also raise an issue in the kep thing. So there's four different and then slack of course, but but just on git alone, we've got four different places that somebody could log in and suggest an idea. So I think that we should.

A

uh Centralize, so one of them could be just uh enhancement proposal, of course, another one. Well, basically just a common request for enhancement. It could be put in any repository.

A

So personally, I would rather think that we need labels etc, and this repository can be used for ids, but do not really map existing items, for example, some items like, uh let's say, badges, etc. We know that they would go to the captain court representative right, so maybe what you could do is just put them there, but if there is idea which doesn't uh particularly fit this repository, so for example, here we have a bunch of ideas that related to integration services which have no mapping to captain court repository at all.

A

It's just the place where people create them uh integrations so, for example, captain plugin for backstage integration, services, etc. All of that could be actually moved to captain proposals in this case. What would be? Basically, if you want to make suggestion generic one, you can go to enhancement proposals, then it can be routed to another repository, but if you know where it would be architecturally, etc, then you can just put it into the appropriate repository right away.

A

Make sense for you.

A

Currently, there is actually a magic button transformation, so it was added a couple of years ago, so it actually allows to drug things.

B

A

B

Kind of move things from one place to another yeah.

A

And also, there are all discussions too.

A

Just put it for my backlog, because I think it's really important if you have something, if you want to have to have something centralized.

A

Thanks for bringing it up.

A

For the discussions, I think that we need to disable discussions everywhere, except one repository, so otherwise it just scatters all over the place, for example here here. I think that we need to at least put all discussions in one place.

A

A

Thank you skin to bring in this topic, because it's really important.

B

So any yeah, as I say so any of those issues there I'm happy to work with obviously people in my time zone to sponsor and guide you through those. If you want to pick those up um that next bullet point requesting reviews, that was more of a ping to you, oh, like just to say, could someone have a quick look because there's about seven, um what I'm? What I'm trying to do?

B

My old services like jira service, trello and monday.com, I'm trying to migrate them away from dedicated services and move them to using uh the web hook and all the um yeah. So there's quite a few there monday os ticket trello zendesk, um because I feel that the web hook is a lot more um scalable and a lot more easy to use than than a custom captain um like a service.

B

Obviously there's a there's a place for that as well, but a lot of these kind of notification services can now be done with the web hook, whereas we didn't have that previously. So um yeah.

A

So I can just say what I actually started looking at last week, because I hit basically the same uh bandwidth issues and uh yeah. What I actually did. I created a new repository, so rob john himself to help his weapon configurations, and I also distracted this mac. So I will say: mac.

A

I cannot take mike because I firstly need to apply to be a member of the organization, uh but uh I started creating this repository and what I will do. I have no idea what is captain ecosystem team uh taking the numbers, uh I'm not sure how many surprising power the active anorexic perspective, uh but yeah. I think that we just need to introduce this.

A

Is what I wanted to do so that it facilities back.

A

What I will do right now is just adding that so that it appears on everyone's dashboard and yeah thanks a lot for doing this cleanup, uh so I will take a look.

A

I haven't checked almost any pull requests since the weekend, with obvious reasons but yeah I will catch up.

A

Oh anything else.

A

A

Thanks a lot for raising that, maybe I will actually be an artifact hub here, because it makes most of it.

A

um Okay, so fourth effect hub. I will try to catch up on that because yeah, there is quite a lot of things.

A

You definitely need to keep it up to date. Okay,.

A

That one, I do have any topics from your site.

C

A

And proceed so quick update on gsoc, so we are waiting uh for the confirmation uh on march 6. We should get a message whether we are accepted or not,.

A

Have all the major things in place? We have six project ideas. I still look into potential matters and more project ids. So if you have something in mind, feel free to propose or join, maybe one of your ideas, adam would be reasonable, or maybe you will be interested in some topics on the list.

A

Let's see and for us it's actually essential to have more potential mentors and more project ideas, because it's one of the criteria, how the project, how the organizations get selected, because it would be nice to have more people.

B

It's already yeah have a look through and if you think some of them are good candidates, let me know- and I can I'll I'm happy to as I say, happy to sponsor or support any of those. um So if, if that, if it works together, then then perfect. Yes,.

A

So basically, what we are looking at is that we need potential mentors, so it's no commitment at the moment and commitment to be made only in april uh when we select projects, but what we speak about in summit could be a few hours per week on reviews on meetings. Some chats with mentees, which is usually quite a good experience, can be load balanced between multiple mentors.

A

So I believe that we won't even consider a project if you have just one mentor so commenters are by minimum engineering, especially set a minimum two three, because summer breaks etc. Usually some people are not able to participate after all, um so it's not a huge commitment, but it's actually quite a good experience.

A

If you see anything interesting for you just it would be nice.

A

So we are waiting. uh Okay, everyone is welcome uh for captain incubation, just a quick update, uh so today I will be doing a presentation for attack up delivery, so we had a conversation.

A

I'm not sure what happened, because I have a bunch of proposals.

A

Okay, I will figure it out, uh but yeah. Actually we have this document the way heights, because I can only view that, so I can see suggestions uh yeah if you open it like that, you can see that there is some suggestions already. So if you see something that could be improved, you can change the permissions right now so that it's.

A

So I will be doing presentations and rest signing off for these individuals to talk about delivery so that we can receive the uh uc voltage. So this is what we discussed with carnegie davis.

A

So if you see some major missing items such so, there is a lot of things to be updated, but yeah any additional feedback and suggestions will be officiated, so I will be driving it going forward and I have a backup of the previous document, so just suggest any change and we see how we can land it.

A

Speaking of that, you may have noticed I'm doing some uh updates in the community repository. So basically it was deprecated. I unduplicated that and using it for a kind of storage for any community items.

A

So, for example, what I added documentation for project infrastructure which is currently painted, so we could just oh no. I did it for another project for open feature, but yeah. I will edit here too, but, for example, I didn't try to document captain and buy the report which defect existed but had no recommendation at so I planted it. I also started a captain integration page with all the summaries and this archive for the previous document.

A

So basically the idea is to use this repository as a storage for whatever community content that doesn't have special location right now and obviously I want to get rid of dco there so that it can be incrementally.

A

If you have anything from the notes etc, like experiences suggestions, it would be also one of the ways to work on and then for yes, so I basically use it as my backlog for wordpress things of community management um and yeah, but also some issues.

A

So yeah, that's what I wanted to say about this community logistics. There is some things but overall work and progress.

A

Going back to our agenda, I think that we don't have much items a lot just uh maybe they think we should have covered the first. We released a 13.1 release with bug fixes. So currently, this baseline should be stable for quality keys. uh uh There will changes openshift installer, so now it should actually work.

A

There will also changes for um sorry for open id connect, because before that there were some issues, for example, so logout and other things, so they were improvements and if you use any of these features, please try them out.

B

Yep uh from from my side, zero thirteen one- uh I avoided 13.0 for the bugs, but um I've had no issues so far with 13.1. So it's looking good from from my testing anyway,.

A

B

A

A

Yeah personally, I think that we should have released this version last week, because one of them defects, for example, for quality case- was fixed by a christian now over the weekend. So basically, the delivery was delayed by one week and impacted some users.

A

So it's probably something we need to think later how we actually do delivery when we have regression fixes, because final days ago, we can have easily shifted much earlier, so that some users have got a bug fix.

A

How it goes and yeah there is a bunch of changes going here and there how to track everything.

B

All good from my side, excellent.

A

Yeah, I don't have any other items. One do you have anything.

A

So I think that's in there, so thanks everyone and yeah. I made a bunch of action item ones for myself adam, so thanks for bringing it up and yeah, probably I'll, even take a bite tomorrow. If I have some bandwidth, I can't really focus on bigger stories after I do this.

B

Don't blame me.

A

I will probably do some with community logistics.

B

No worries, thank you very much for your time. Gents and uh yeah. Everyone stay safe. It's craziness, going on at the moment.

A

Okay, I'll publish the recording in one hour, so so thanks all.