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From YouTube: Kingston, Ontario - Citizen Committee to Review Council Remuneration - December 20, 2021
Description
Citizen Committee to Review Council Remuneration from December 20, 2021. For full meeting agenda, please visit: https://bit.ly/3yL6b0O
B
A
A
B
A
Confirmation
of
minutes
we
need
to
vote
on
that
lindsay
someone
else
as
well,
mary,
jo
great,
and
then
we
need
to
vote
on
that
as
well.
So
we
all
vote
perfect
and
that
carries
okay.
So,
okay,
so
everyone's
read
the
minutes:
disclosure,
any
disclosures
of
pecuniary
interests,
don't
see
any
nope.
Okay,
great,
we'll
move
on
okay,
so
the
citizen
committee,
the
review
of
council
renumeration
meeting
any
delegations,
I
don't
believe
we
have
any
tonight.
A
B
B
All
I
would
say,
is
I've
presented
the
the
data
to
you,
I'm
happy
to
answer
any
questions.
People
may
have
about
it.
If
there's
anything,
that's
unclear,
we
did
receive
responses
from.
I
believe
it
was
eight
members
of
council,
so
we
did
get
a
fairly
good
sample
and
yeah
the
the
data's
been
presented
and
if
there's
questions
or
any
discussion,
I'm
happy
to
answer
any
questions
and
I
can
turn
it
back
to
you.
Laura.
E
F
Much
didn't
really
find
much
issue
with
it,
but
the
ones
who
did,
I
would
say
most
of
them,
found
it
to
at
least
sometimes
be
hostile
as
a
platform
and
some
counselors.
I
think
it
should
be
noted,
reported
hostile,
in-person
interactions
with
citizens
even
during
the
pandemic,
it
seems
so
which
was
very
disappointing
to
hear
but
yeah,
so
the
the
survey
results
themselves.
I
think
that,
honestly
there
you
know
the
amount
of
work
is,
is
a
lot
there
there's
a.
I
think.
F
Most
people
still
seem
to
feel
that
it's
a
it
should
be
a
part-time
job,
although
I
think
there's
a
good
merit
for
it
to
not
so
one
question
I
was
going
to
ask
of
the
city
clerk
is,
if
it's
possible,
to
get
a
list
of
which
communities
in
ontario
actually
have
full-time
councils.
I
assume
that
they're,
just
the
bigger
municipalities,
so
I
can't
imagine
smaller
ones-
would
have,
but
if
that's
a
list
that
we
could
get,
that
might
be
helpful
in
making
a
recommendation.
F
F
I
think
all
the
counselors
are
putting
in
maybe
one
exception,
and
I
think
there
was
probably
one
counselor
who
didn't
fill
up
the
surveys
it
looks
like
at
all,
but
they
they
all
seem
to
be
putting
in
pretty
much
full-time
hours,
even
though
it's
meant
to
be
a
part-time
job
normally
and
everybody's
working
a
lot
of
hours,
and
I
think
it's
very
noteworthy,
like
we
have
the
the
comparator
data's
from
the
eight
or
nine
communities
that
we
do
have.
And
you
know
the
information
is
presented
in
different
ways.
F
But
at
the
end
of
the
day,
the
counselors
and
mayor
are
presiding
over
a
half
a
billion
dollar
budget,
and
you
know
the
the
amount
of
work
that
they
have
on
their
plates
seems
to
be,
and
their
compensation
seems
to
be
inconsistent
with
the
the
the
magnitude
of
the
responsibility
that
they
have.
So
I
think
that
you
know
for
myself,
there's
a
lot
of
good
reasons
to
keep
it
as
a
part-time
job,
and
we've
seen
them
in
previous
reports
that
previous
iterations
of
this
committee
have
come
to.
F
D
We
only
finished
just
for
the
rest
of
the
committee
to
understand.
We
only
finished
the
one-on-one
interviews
last
monday
and
we
have
the
the
notes
from
the
individual
ones,
and
those
will
be
summarized
in
time
well
in
time
for
for
the
next
meeting,
and
I
I
just
wanted
to
echo
what
jordan
was
saying,
but
I
I
think
that
the
one
main
message
that
I
continued
to
hear
was
that
you
can
do
this
job
part-time,
but
you're
not
gonna.
D
D
You're
not
opening
it
up
to
young
young
people
with
young
families
by
being
part-time
and
making
40
grand
a
year
right,
they're
not
going
to
leave
their
other
jobs
to
do
this
with
that
kind
of
pay.
So
it
was
just
it's
just
fascinating
because
you
look
at
you
know
the
one
counselor
we
spoke
to
he
used
to
do
this.
You
know,
while
working
full-time,
now
he's
retired
and
is
doing
this,
and
he
said
the
hours
haven't
fluctuated,
but
it's
the
whole
dynamic
of
being
a
counselor
has
changed,
especially
with
a
pandemic.
D
There
are
more
demands:
it's
not
a
25
hours
a
day,
you're
on
call
seven
days
a
week,
and
you
are
expected
to
respond
to
the
constituents
who
reach
out
to
you
who
call
all
hours
and
you
have
to
respond
or
you
will
be
shamed,
whether
it's
online,
whether
it's
lots
of
yelling
lots
of
crazy
dialogue.
So
I
think
all
of
those
factors
have
to
be
considered
as
we
as
we
move
forward.
I
don't
know
how-
and
I
know
that
it
is
not
in
our
mandate
to
recommend,
but
I
think
it
we
were.
D
If
you
give
us
a
pay,
raise,
there
will
be
hell
to
pay
right.
The
public
will
not
accept
that.
So,
if
you,
if
we
want
change
or
if
change
is
going
to
to
go
forward,
it
has
to
be
through
a
referendum,
because
counselors
can't
vote
this
in
as
a
change
right.
It
has
to
go
to
referendum.
So
if
that's
all
prepared
and
ready
to
go,
which
is
a
long
shot
for
2022.
F
D
A
Thanks:
okay,
any
other
comments.
Indira,
we
are
at
the
section
that
we
were
discussing
the
survey
and
lindsey
and
jordan.
We
did
all
the
interviews
from
to
the
counselors
and
we
got
their
feedback,
but
the
notes
aren't
ready
yet
and
they
will
be
shortly
so
we're
just
commenting
right
now
about
the
the
feedback
from
the
survey
that
was
sent
in
the
minutes.
Yeah
we're
gonna
appreciate.
C
Sure
so,
just
on
the
the
question
of
recommending
that
that
the
counselors
ought
to
be
full-time,
I
think
we
did
identify
earlier
that
that
was
not
within
the
mandate
of
this
committee.
I
don't
think
that
it
prevents
us
from
suggesting
that
that
further
work
needs
to
be
done
to
actually
investigate
that
issue
and
to
jordan's
earlier
point
about
maybe
getting
some
additional
comparative
information.
But
again,
I
think
we
we
have
to
be
really
disciplined
about.
What's
within
our
mandate,.
A
I
agree,
I
think
maybe
we
can
just
put
a
note
at
the
end
saying
you
know
through
our
discussions
that
we've
had
with
counselors.
This
is
something
that
may
be
considered
for
the
next
council.
There
be
a
referendum
in
2026
or
in
the
I'm
sorry,
not
2026,
so
the
next
year
right
in
the
next
council
term
yeah.
I
don't
think
we
should
focus
on
it
a
lot,
but
I
think
it's
something
that
we
could
maybe
put
in
in
our
recommendations
is
what
we've
heard
and
what
we've
thought
of
now.
C
I
I
did
I
went
through
and
I
had
made
some
annotations
and
it
was
interesting
to
me
because
the
among
our
mandate
is
to
comment
on
administrative
support.
So
there
was,
there
was
some
sort
of
internally
inconsistent
information.
If
I
put
my
labor
hat
on,
because
the
ranking
order
for
administrative
tests
in
terms
of
time
was
the
lowest
and
it
seemed
to
be
pretty
much
the
lowest
across
the
board,
but
then
in
the
more
qualitative
responses
there
there
was.
C
They
were
not
consistent,
though,
but
there
were
some
comments
with
regard
to
benefits
of
administrative
support,
and
I
thought
there
were
a
few
comments
that
I
thought
were
interesting
around.
Well,
maybe
it's
actually
not
administrative
support,
that's
needed!
Maybe
it's.
Maybe
there
was
a
reference,
for
example,
to
research.
It
would
be
really
helpful
if
there
was
someone
who
was
able
to
do
some
research
which
in
my
mind,
is
something
different
than
administrative
support
which
might
be
assistance
in
meeting
bookings
or
things
of
that
nature.
C
A
Yeah,
I
think
those
are
good
comments.
I
think
in
my
mind
and
lindsay
and
jordan.
You
can
add
to
this
if
this
is
what
you
thought
too,
but
in
in
our
discussions
with
them,
I
found
a
lot
of
counselors
said
how
they
would
send
in
a
question
to
staff
and
what
took
a
lot
of
time
was
the
follow-up
on
the
question
to
staff.
So
maybe
that
would
be
a
situation
where
an
administrative
assistant
or
someone
that
they
could
share
could
follow
up
on
these
questions
to
staff.
A
Let's
say
you
said
you
sent
in
a
request
for
a
pothole.
For
example,
you
needed
the
pothole
fixed.
You
sent
this
request
in
and
nothing
nothing
got
done,
and
then
you
send
in
another
request
and
then
you
send
another
request
and
it
just
get
it.
You
know
it
happens,
it
happens,
it
gets
lost
in
a
bureaucracy
or
it
gets
lost
somewhere
and
then
someone
else's
pothole
gets
fixed
and
your
pothole
hasn't.
A
And
then
you
get
another
complaint,
oh
well,
his
pothole
got
fixed
and
mine
didn't
so
this
would
be
something
an
administrative
assistant
could
help
with
is
following
up
on
these
requests,
and
that's
what
I
heard.
I
also
heard
that
there
could
be
research
as
well
like
on
special
requests
to
for
what
would
you
call
it,
bringing
more
emotions
forward
to
get
work
done
or
to
get
more
information
too?
H
D
But
there
are
very
few
that
want
to
let
go
of
being
that
connection
right.
They
want
to
be
that
person
that
liaison
that
helps,
but
it
becomes
overwhelming.
So
I
agree
with
the
lord
with,
like
the
research
is
a
big
thing,
probably
almost
all
of
the
counselors.
We
spoke
to
mention
that
same
thing,
that
it
would
be
great
to
have
that
independent
person
that
they
can
go
to
and
say
I
need
comparatives
in
other
cities
and
this
that
and
the
other
thing,
but
they're
very
what's
the
word.
A
D
Protective
of
their
stuff
right.
So
if
they
want
to
put
a
motion
forward,
they
don't
want
to
share
that
information
with
anybody.
So
it
has
to
be
very
select
and
that's
why
one
counselor-
and
I
believe
that
was
in
the
in
the
in
the
survey
responses
to
saying
you
know
I
want.
I
want
money
to
hire
my
own
admin
assistant
and
I'm
like.
D
Well,
that's
not
going
to
happen,
but
you
know
I
understand
what
he's
saying
and
because
a
lot
of
a
bunch
of
the
other
counselors
said
the
same
thing,
but
I
don't
want
to
share
right.
I
don't
wanna
and
then
other
people
said
three
to
four
counselors
can
share
somebody
with
admin,
but
I
agree.
The
admin
part
of
it
is
more
of
the
research
and
it's
more
of
the
tracking
tracking
requests
that
go
through
contact.
A
And
also
a
new,
a
new
counselor
might
need
help
too
and
where
to
go
and
who
to
talk
to,
and
that
would
be
a
big
help
for
admin
support
too,
which
I
think
would
be
super
beneficial,
because
when
you
start
out
as
a
new
counselor,
you
don't
know
who
to
call
or
who
to
contact,
but
then
a
good
question.
I
was
talking
to
derek
today
and
he
he
had
some
ideas,
and
maybe
janet
can
help
with
this
as
well.
A
A
C
Okay,
I
was
going
to
comment
that
the
other.
The
other
remark
that
I
thought
was
was
actually
quite
insightful,
was
that
there
perhaps
are
some
processes
within
the
within
the
city
that
are
could
be
enhanced.
It
could
be
improved
to
sort
of
so
rather
than
layering
on
administrative
supports
to
be
chasing
down.
Information
that
may
or
may
not
have
been
actioned
or
tracked
is.
Are
there
some
ways
that
internal
processes
could
be
looked
at
so
that
it
would
actually
eliminate
some
of
those
things
it
was?
It
was
well
articulated.
E
It's
been
interesting
listening
because
in
some
ways
in
the
position
that
I'm
in
currently
and
my
relationship
with
the
city
of
kingston,
it's
sort
of
similar
to
a
counselor
in
the
sense
that
I've
got
to
get
things
done
or
I've
got
questions
to
be
answered
or
research
that
that
I
need-
and
I
don't
know
who
to
reach
out
to
when
I'm
hearing
you
you
talk
about
some
of
the
challenges
and
being
familiar
with
how
council
worked
in
belleville
and
this
isn't
what
they
did.
But
as
I'm
thinking
about
it,
it's
almost
like.
E
Wouldn't
it
be
nice
if
there
was
a
triage
where
the
questions
for
any
counselor
come
in.
It's
probably
not
realistic,
but
I
need
to
share
it
because
the
questions
coming
counselors,
if
you
have
a
relationship
with
the
counselor,
then
it's
sort
of
like
a
special
relationship
right
you're,
like
oh
yeah,
I'll,
just
call,
laura
or
I'll
just
call
sean
or
whatever
or
yeah,
he's
my
neighbor.
And
then
you
have
this
immediate
one-on-one
contact.
E
But
if
a
question
came
in
that
didn't
really
need
to
go
directly
to
a
counselor,
a
city
staff
person
could
take
care
of
it
or
a
department
could
take
care
of
it,
but
things
that
needed
to
be
personally
addressed
because
that's
most
of
what
they
do
really
is
relationship
building
and
making
sure
that
the
needs
of
their
constituents
are
being
met.
Then,
of
course
that
would
go
to
the
appropriate
counselor.
E
But
so
it's
it's
more
of
just
like
a
triage,
would
work
in
a
hospital,
and
there
is
a
triage
in
in
city
of
kingston,
a
woman
named
heather
for
the
types
of
things
that
that
we
at
the
bia
need
where
we
call
we're
supposed
to
call
her
and
then
it's
supposed
to
be
sort
of
disseminated
amongst
the
right
people,
but
that
would
just
give
them
one
layer
of
okay.
I
don't
need
to
answer
these
40
emails
because
they're
all
things
that
really
don't
need
to
be
answered
in
particular
by
me.
H
Yeah,
I'm
just
sort
of
building
on
on
what
indira
said
as
well,
and
I
I
think,
because
I
I
I
see
some
of
the
comments
in
there
but
the
need
for
support,
but
I
think
what
we
could
probably
look
at
doing
is
really
drill
down
and
find
out.
What
are
the
exact
needs
of
the
support,
because
then
it
may
not
be
just
an
admin
person.
It
may
maybe
it's
an
admin
person.
H
Maybe
that's
part
of
the
support,
that's
required
for
counsel,
but
maybe
it's
some
type
of
like
online
ticketing
type
of
system
for
for
issues
like
laura
you
mentioned,
you
know,
somebody
sends
it
a
constituent
asymmetric
pothole
to
be
filled
instead
of
just
sending
an
email
off
to
city
staff.
To
have
that
addressed,
it
would
be
like
an
online
ticketing
system
where
they
submit
it.
It
gets
populated,
right
away
and
gets
sent
off
to
whoever
gets
sent
off
within
the
city
staff.
H
And
then,
when
they're
done,
it's
been
filled,
they
click
complete
and
you
get
a
notification
as
a
city
councilor
saying
this
has
been
completed
and
that
way
it's
an
online
anyways.
I
think
there's
some
tech
solutions
that
could
be
had
to
solve
some
of
the
administrative
burden,
but
I
think
there
also
might
be
a
need
for
a
person
as
well,
but
let's
I
think
I
need
to
better
understand
what
the
actual
needs
would
be
from
counselors
if
it's
booking
meetings.
I
think
someone
made
a
note
to
a
crm
tool
in
here
as
well.
H
Maybe
there's
a
crm
tool
that
could
be
used
for
booking
meetings
and
planning
counselors
times
and
everything
else.
So
I
would
just
before
we
jump
to-
and
I
know
we
won't
jump
to
it,
but
before
we
decide
to
just
give
them
administrative
support,
let's
figure
out
exactly
what
the
needs
are
and
maybe
there's
other
solutions
that
we
can
apply.
E
Just
building
on
what
john
just
said,
there
is
a
ticketing
system
within
the
city.
I'm
sure
you
guys
know
that
the
the
the
struggle
with
the
ticketing
system
is
the
squeaky
wheel
still
gets
the
grease
right,
so
you
can
put
a
ticket
in
and
say
I
want
this,
but
you
know
this:
pothole
is
the
most
important
thing
in
the
whole
entire
city
and
17
other
things
get
in
the
way
within
five
minutes
and
then
you're
on
the
back
burner
where
counselor
comes
in
handy
is
where
they
say.
Listen.
E
A
E
F
Yeah
thanks
a
few
points
to
follow
on.
I
guess
when
I'll
start
work,
we
just
left
off
and
that's
with
the
support
for
the.
I
got
the
sense
that
there
wasn't
overwhelming
support
for
it.
I
you
know
a
lot
of
counselors
if
they
were
supportive
of
it
from
our
one-on-one
interviews.
It
didn't
come
through
quite
as
much
in
the
surveys,
but
if
they
were
to
have
an
administrative
support
person
they
they
would
want
it
unique
to
them.
F
They
don't
most
of
them,
don't
want
to
share
it
for
for
reasons
that
are
a
bit
disappointing,
but
that's
that's
the
the
reality
of
it.
So
I'm
not
sure
that
it
would
work
out.
I
don't
fully
understand
why,
for
the
research
part
of
things,
if
counselor
had
some
questions
on
a
topic
that
needed
to
be
researched,
why
they
couldn't
direct
staff
to
do
that,
I
think
that
should
always
be
an
available
option.
F
Maybe
there's
not
sufficient
staff
resources
available
for
that
to
happen,
but
you
know
so
I
think
just
increasing
the
the
general
staff
available
to
be
tasked
by
by
council
as
a
whole
would
be
a
helpful
thing
but
to
have
individual
support.
I
didn't
get
a
strong
sense
that
that
was
going
to
be
super
important.
F
It's
nonsense
that
contact
us
is
there
and,
and
it
would
be
best
if,
if
all
account,
I
know
why
they
don't
do
it,
but
if
counselors
just
told
people
the
contact
look,
this
is
the
phone
number
call
contact
us.
They'll
put
you
in
the
queue
your
thing
will
get
fixed.
I
mean
that
should
be
the
standard
response
and
and
to
pretend,
like
you,
have
some
sway
or
even
worse.
If
counselors
actually
have
the
ability
to
pump
somebody's
pothole
up
over
the
next
guy's
pothole,
I
mean
that
would
be
just
wrong.
F
There's
there's
a
q
system,
a
ticketing
system
that
the
city
uses
and
everybody
should
be
routed
to
that.
As
I
understand
it,
from
from
the
interviews,
a
counselor
gets
the
call
or
an
email,
a
text
whatever
about
a
pothole
and
they
just
submit
the
contact
us
request.
Anyway.
It's
a
hugely
inefficient
use
of
their
time
when
they
have
a
lot
better
things
to
be
doing
so
I
think
the
city
would
be
far
better
off
just
raising
awareness,
education
about
the
role
of
counselors
and
the
availability
of
contact.
F
Us
I
mean
every
time
you
get
a
bill
from
utilities,
kingston
or
your
property
tax
statement
or
something
it
should
say.
Here's
how
you
reach
the
city
when
you
have
a
pothole
or
there's
no
cloud
and
do
your
thing
or
that
you
know
the
garbage
people
left
your
recycle
bin
behind
or
something
like
it's
just.
It's
not
a
it's,
not
what
our
city
council
should
be
doing
frankly.
F
So
so
I'm
not
I'm
not
convinced
that
more
support
dedicated
just
to
as
counselors
as
I
I
didn't
hear
that,
as
you
know,
across
the
board
would
be
useful
and
and
where,
where
I
did
hear
it,
it
was
such
a
disparate
range
of
what
people
wanted
that
I
don't.
I
don't
think
there's
enough
common
ground
to
make
that
viable.
F
If,
if
there
is,
though
it's
clear
that
the
additional
support
should
not
be
considered
part
of
the
compensation
package
for
counselors,
that's
just
support.
It's
a
tool,
that's
available
to
them,
it's
a
resource,
but
related
to
that.
I
think
in
the
surveys
and
in
the
interviews
there
was
quite
a
few
people
who
indicated
that
they
would
like
to
have
a
proper
meeting
space
within
their
districts.
F
So
so
those
I
think
are
a
few
other
things
that
we
need
to
take
into
account.
One
thing
that
nobody
seemed
to
say
in
the
surveys:
I
didn't
see
it
at
least,
but
it
was
a
hunter.
It
was
absolutely
clear
when
we
did
the
interviews
and
I'm
sure
we'll
talk
about
it
more,
but
the
onboarding
process
is
quite
lacking.
The
not
you
know,
especially
for
the
new
counselors.
F
Despite
their
best
intentions,
they
don't
come
in
able
to
hit
the
ground
running,
there's
quite
a
bit
of
learning
on
the
job
we
heard
you
know
the
first
year
or
two
even
it
takes
before.
You
really
know
what
you're
doing
and
we've
been
talking
a
little
bit
about
the
role
that
a
support
person
might
play
in
helping
with
that,
and
that's
absolutely
the
case
that
you
know
having
somebody
who
you
go
to
for
your
questions
would
be
helpful,
but
I
see
existing
staff
should
be
filling
that
role.
F
I
don't
see
that
that's
something
that
we
need
to
hire
the
city
should
hire
somebody
just
to
be
the
the
question
answer
of
counselors.
I
think
that
that
should
already
be
existing
for
council
to
be
able
to
go
to
the
clerk
or
or
to
somebody
in
on
the
staff
who
they
ask
when
they
don't
know
where
to
direct
their
questions
where
to
direct
their
questions.
It
just
seems
to
me
that
that
should
exist.
F
It
shouldn't
be
something
that
we
separately
need
to
have
and
if
it
doesn't,
then,
then
we
should,
but
I
can't
see
it
as
being
support
for
an
individual
counselor
per
staff
person.
I
think
you
know
one
or
two
staff
people
who
that's
part
of
their
job,
but
not
maybe
all
of
their
job,
that
that
would
be
important.
A
A
You
know
maze
of
finding
the
right
person
to
get
this
and
and
they're
at
the
at
the
city
hall,
because
if
you
think
of
it
I'm
working
full-time,
I
have
a
request.
I
don't
have
time
to
chase
it
through
the
the
maze
of
all
these
different
people
and
that
person
the
admin
person
can
do
that
because
they're
they're
currently
at
the
city
hall,
and
they
can
go
to
each
desk
and
find
out
the
right
answer.
F
And
how
do
you
have
a
family
life
when
you're
you're
most
of
the
time
nine
to
five?
And
then
you
know
five
nights
a
month
here,
you're,
you
know
seven
to
midnight
or
two
in
the
morning.
I
don't
know
how
they
feel
yeah.
It's
hard,
big
problem,
though
the
retention
of
staff
and
the
the
sufficiency
of
staff.
Right
I
mean
we
need
to
have
enough
staff
to
actually
do
the
work
and
the
the
less
staff.
There
is
the
more
likely
the
staff
that
are
there
will
burn
out
and
not
stick
around
kingston
either
right.
F
C
Laura
my
hand
went
up
just
in
relation
to
jordan's
comments
about
you
know
considering
compensation
for
committee,
so
it
was
actually
a
question.
I
wasn't
sure
if
there
is
a
selection
process
for
participation
in
committees-
and
I
raised
the
question
in
the
context
of
you
know:
we
want
people
to
be
motivated
because
they
have
an
intrinsic
interest
or
subject
matter
expertise
in
a
particular
committee
area,
not
because
of
it
offering
added
compensation
so
just
that
that
may
be
mitigated
if
people
go
through
selection
process.
So
just
was
curious
about
that.
A
B
A
B
I
finally
stopped
calling
you
counselor
turner
after
three
years,
so
so
the
the
selection
process
is
staff
will
reach
out
to
counselors,
with
a
list
of
all
of
the
committees,
ask
them
to
indicate
which
ones
they
are
interested
on
serving
on.
We
really
hope
that
we
get
a
perfect
match
of
six.
People
want
to
volunteer
for
a
committee
with
six
members
and
then
we
take
it
basically
that
list
up
to
council
and
there'll
be
sort
of
three
separate,
distinct
motions
on
a
council
agenda.
B
Sort
of
you
know
affirm
the
committees
where
we
have
an
exact
match
between
volunteers
and
the
number
of
committee
members.
Sometimes
we
have
more
people,
not
often
more
people
volunteer
for
a
committee
than
there
are
positions,
and
in
that
case
either
members
will
step
back
or
they'll
be
an
actual
sort
of
runoff
election
happen
at
council.
So
the
the
committee
positions
for
councillors
are
selected
in
a
vote
by
the
council
members
themselves
and
then
in
cases
where
happens
more
frequently
than
too
many
people
is
not
enough
volunteers
for
committee.
B
So,
for
example,
laura
served
on
planning
committee
for
many
years.
That
is,
has
a
high
workload
to
it.
It
for
the
longest
time
was
six
members,
but
we
had
difficulty
as
the
city
finding
a
full
complement,
so
we
had
to
bring
it
down
to
five.
Members
have
recently
got
it
back
up
to
six
members.
So
that's
the
process,
there's
not
really
an
application
process.
It's
more
of.
Are
you
willing
to
volunteer
for
the
committee
and,
if
there's
a
runoff
required,
then
it's
voted
on
by
the
council
members
themselves.
D
Yeah,
I
I
think
that
the
comment
that
was
so
prevalent
during
those
interviews
was
on
planning,
so
those
counselors
who
are
not
on
planning
have
done
that
intentionally
because
of
the
workload
and
those
who
are
on
planning
are
saying
that
it
is
as
much
work,
if
not
more
than
preparing
and
attending
council
meetings,
with
the
growth
in
the
city
of
kingston,
the
the
demands
and
the
regulations
and
that's
a
whole
different
beast,
and
it's
so
very
important.
But
it
is
incredibly
time
consuming.
D
A
C
D
B
No
worries,
if
I
may
laura
the
city
does
have
I
love
talking
about
governance.
This
is
what
I
do.
There
are
four
standing
committees
of
council,
these
consist
of
six
members
of
council
and
they
basically
function
as
a
committee.
That
is
a
subcommittee
of
council
that
is
supposed
to
examine
issues
more
in
depth
and
then
make
recommendations
up
to
council
understanding
that
certain
things
require
more
study
or
more
discussion
than
would
be
allowable
at
a
council
meeting.
So
planning
committee
is
one
of
these.
B
It
deals
with
a
zoning
bylaw,
an
official
plan
amendment
under
the
planning
act.
It
meets
twice
a
month,
so
they
will
meet
roughly
24
times
a
year,
not
including
special
meetings,
which
I
think
in
average
year
we
might
add
two
or
three
of
those,
so
there's
potential
for
three
meetings
a
month
on
thursday
evenings.
There
are
also
three
other
standing
committees
they
meet
every
second
month
and
those
have
a
much
less
frequent.
B
So
those
three
standing
committees
which
cover
environment,
arts
and
administrative
policies,
they
may
meet
up
to
a
maximum,
maybe
six
times
a
year,
but
often
less
so
planning
is
definitely
lindsay's.
Characterization
of
planning,
as
the
biggest
time
commitment,
is
accurate
by
quite
a
large
degree
and.
B
B
I
don't
believe,
there's
any
official
rule
in
that
regard.
However,
my
experience
shows
that
people
who
serve
on
a
volunteer
to
serve
on
the
committee
will
attend
as
much
as
they
can
and
if
they
cannot,
they
typically
will
resign
from
the
committee
planning
is
particularly
important
that
we
maintain
quorum
at
it.
It
requires
four
of
six
members
attending
and
it
deals
with
a
lot
of
legislated
applications.
So
people
do
understand
the
commitment
I
think
when
they
sign
up
for
it.
If
not,
they
only
serve
on
it.
For
one
term.
A
It's
a
big
committee
and
you're
being
part
of
that
committee.
You
learn
a
lot
about
the
city
as
well,
and
you
learn
about
everything
that's
being
built
and
when
it
comes
to
council,
when
the
motions
come
to
council,
you've
read
the
file
and
you
know
it
cold.
So
it's
very
helpful
to
be
on
that
committee
so
that
when
you
make
when
you're
making
the
decision,
it's
it's
a
lot
easier
because
you
know
the
ins
and
outs
of
that
decision
go
ahead.
Jordan.
F
Yeah,
I
just
want
to
add
to
this
that
really
the
the
attendance
at
the
meeting
is
the
easy
part
right.
It's
the
preparation
for
the
meetings
I
mean
people
are
being
given
500
page,
you
know
effectively
binders
to
prepare
for
a
council
meeting
planning
is
I'm
sure,
no
different.
It's
a
huge
thing
and
planning,
especially
amongst
the
committees,
is
one
where
the
decisions
you
make
today
are
generational
right,
they're,
not
it's
not
like
deciding.
F
I
don't
know
some
some
trivial
thing
of
whether
we
should
you
know
it's
it's
it's
a
it's
a
long-term
thing:
it's
it's
not
a
short-term
thing,
something
in
the
next
three
years
or
five
years
or
next
month,
whether
we
should
raise
this
flag
on
that
day
or
declaring
it's
not
like
one
of
those
things.
It's
you
know
the
the
predicament
we're
in
now
with
the
housing
crisis
has
everything
to
do
with
decisions
that
were
and
weren't
made
20
years
ago.
F
Right
and
so
these
things
won't
be
solved
quickly
and
they're
fundamentally
important,
and
we
need
people
in
the
job
of
council
who
have
the
time
to
be
able
to
make
these
decisions
in
a
thoughtful
well-reasoned
way
and
to
be
compensated
properly
for
doing
that
right.
So
you
know
I
just.
I
think
that
we
we
shouldn't
get
lost
too
much
in
in
how
how
many
meetings
there
are,
how
long
the
meetings
are
it's
at
the
end
of
the
day.
B
H
But
I
would
like
to
at
least
make
a
recommendation
to
have
the
terms
of
reference
for
those
committees
looked
at
to
have
some
mechanism
built
in
there
for
people
to
attend
the
meetings
and-
and
I
appreciate
what
jordan
said
most
of
the
work
goes
in
well
before
the
meeting.
I
totally
agree
with
that,
and
I
understand
from
derek's
comments
that
you
know
it's
for
the
most
part
people
attend
because
they
want
to
attend
and
they
want
to
be
good
committee
members.
A
B
That's
a
great
question:
I
do
not
have
the
answer,
but
I
will
follow
up
with
them
shortly
and
I
think
this
is
actually
perhaps
laura
a
good
segue
into
another
one
of
our
agenda
items,
which
is
the
discussion
about
the
methodology
for
determining
compensation
or
remuneration.
I
should
say
I
I
feel
that
my
goal
of
getting
a
solid,
yes
or
no
on
whether
or
not
administrative
support
should
be
recommended
is
not
going
to
happen
tonight.
D
B
B
G
Hey
lindsay,
that's
a
great
question.
The
short
answer
is
no.
The
requirements
to
serve
as
a
municipal
council
counselor
are
set
out
in
the
municipal
elections
act,
which
is
simply
that
you
need
to
to
be
a
resident
of
the
municipality.
You
need
to
be
over
18.
and
you
know
not
disqualified
from
running
under
any
other
act,
and
that
in
itself
is
the
job
description.
G
Those
are
the
requirements
that
somebody
has
to
fulfill
in
order
to
file
the
nomination
papers
and
just
to
to
go
back
one
question,
or
I
think
maybe
it
was
your
question
as
well
lindsay
in
terms
of
the
the
staff
available
in
the
in
the
clerk's
department.
We
do
have.
You
know,
six
to
eight
sort
of
regular
full-time
staff
that
are
available
to
to
assist
counselors.
As
derek
said,
it's
not
sort
of
part
of
our
our
job
description,
but
but
we
all
do
pitch
in
in
that
regard.
G
We
also
do
have
a
position.
It's
a
council
research
intern.
This
is
a
partnership
with
queen's
university
and
their
mpa
program.
It's
not
a
position
that
we've
been
able
to
fill
the
last
two
years,
just
with
the
with
the
kovid
19
pandemic,
but
we
we
work
with
queens
to
recruit
somebody
from
the
mba
program
and
they
come
and
work
at
the
city
of
kingston
for
about
four
months
in
a
in
a
research
position.
G
A
Yes,
that
that's
true-
and
that
was
that
was
very
helpful.
I
didn't
use
the
service,
but
a
lot
of
the
other
counselors
did,
and
that
was
very
nice
to
have
that
available.
Okay.
So,
let's,
let's
move
on
to
the
next
question,
discussing
the
remuneration,
determination
and
preferred
option
for
administrative
report,
support
not
report,
so
renumeration
determination
and
preferred
option?
Okay,
so
are
we
anywhere
for.
B
I
renumeration
perhaps
a
starting
point
would
be
we've.
I've
shared
some
metrics
that
were
used
by
previous
iterations
of
the
committee,
so
perhaps
people
have
a
preference
for
one
of
those
or
perhaps
a
completely
new
metric
that
hasn't
been
thought
of.
So
I
just
know
the
importance-
and
I
think
jordan
mentioned
it-
of
coming
up
with
a
solid
methodology
behind
any
final
remuneration
recommendation.
F
Okay,
thanks
sorry
about
that,
I
think
that
it's
you
know.
I
appreciate
the
the
information
that
derek's
compiled
for
us,
depending
on
which
you
know
metric.
We
choose,
you
know,
there's
arguments
to
be
made
that
we're
a
little
high
we're
a
little
low,
but
I
think
in
talking
with
the
current
counselors,
there's
a
general
sense
that
their
compensation
is
not
commensurate
with
the
amount
of
work
that
they
do.
F
F
So
I
honestly
think
that
you
know,
despite
having
metrics
available
to
us,
the
remuneration
should
not
go
down
and
and
at
the
end
of
the
day,
it
should
go
up
by
at
a
minimum
of
an
inflationary
amount,
a
cost
of
living
amount
or
or
something
tied
to
that
you
know.
Looking
at
the
data,
I
think,
for
example,
the
the
cost
per
resident.
F
The
mayor,
the
cost
for
the
mayor
is
a
little
under
the
average
value.
The
cost
per
counselor
is
two
cents
more
per
per
resident,
but
really
it's
a
it's
a
good
bargain.
I
mean
for
a
dollar
33
we're
getting
a
mayor
and
a
counselor
in
whatever
district
you
live
in
per
year.
It
seems
like
you
know:
where
do
you
get
that
kind
of
value
for
your
money?
F
So
you
know
what
I
think:
that's
a
fair
way
to
do
it.
If
we
look
at
the
the
results
on
the,
I
found
it
very
interesting.
The
results
on
per
per
unit
of
operating
budget-
and
in
that
case,
the
the
higher
the
number,
the
better
you're
doing
and
kingston
is
the
the
best
or
second
best
in
that
along
that
metric.
F
Already
in
terms
of
value
for
money,
I
do
have
some
concern
that
somebody
might
say:
well,
then,
there's
incentive
to
have
a
higher
operating
budget
so
that
you
get
a
higher
salary
which
of
course
I
don't
think
would
have
ever
happened.
So
I'm
a
little
bit,
you
know
thinking.
We
shouldn't
probably
tie
it
to
that
that
metric,
but
it
is
a,
I
think,
a
very
valuable
metric
to
use
right.
I
mean
when
we're
talking
about
a
half
a
billion
dollar
budget.
F
It's
important
to
you
know
say
how
much
is
the
compensation
of
your
your
board
of
directors
as
a
fraction
of
the
budget
they're
overseeing
and
it's
it's
a
you
know
an
insignificant
amount
really
in
in
the
big
picture.
So
those
are
the
the
main
things
that
I
picked
out
of
it
was
that
we're
already
you
know
amongst
the
comparators
we
selected,
the
the
kingston
city,
council,
counselors
and
mayor
are
right
in
the
the
good
region.
F
And
so
I
I
would,
I
would
say
in
a
sense
it
doesn't
matter
which
metrics
we
pick
they're
all
pointing
in
the
same
direction,
we're
getting
good
value
for
our
money
right
now,
comparable
to
what
everybody
else
is
spending
in
the
comparators,
and
I
think
that
there's
a
good
argument
to
to
have
a
modest
increase
be
recommended.
So
that's
it.
B
C
C
I
also
think
that
in
looking
at
the
combination
of
operating
and
capital
budget,
it
reflects
some
of
those
complexities
that
we've
talked
about
that
and
to
jordan.
I
think
you
you've
stated
it
so
well.
We
we
need
to
recognize
the
the
critical
nature
of
these
roles
and
the
decisions
that
they
make
and
influence,
and
so
I
think
that
behind
that
much
of
of
the
the
outcomes
of
work
and
decisions
is
monetized
through
the
budget.
So
it's,
how
are
we
spending
our
limited
monies
for
capital
improvement,
for
example,
infrastructure
improvement?
C
Do
we
say
as
a
principle
that
it
is,
it
is
not
going
to
be
reduced
so
that
this
is-
and
we
know,
certainly
from
for
the
mayor
position
that
you
know
if
this
were
a
private
industry
organization,
you
can't
hire
a
ceo
for
less
than
whatever
that
that
amount
is
so
potentially
making
some
recommendations
that
it
it.
You
know
not
be
reduced.
B
Just
to
a
comment,
jordan
said:
I
know
we
have
this
discussion
laura.
I
feel
I
was
remiss
in
not
including
this
in
earlier
information,
but
the
current
structure
for
council
remuneration
is
that
there
is
an
increase
each
year
based
on
the
previous
year's
cpi.
So,
while
technically
their
base,
salary
is
40
000
in
actuality
in
last
20
21,
I'm
trying
to
think
of
which
years
I'm
talking
about
here.
B
F
I
just
wanted
to
follow
up
there.
Then,
when
we
did
the
survey
of
the
comparator
communities,
would
they
have
told
us
their
current
salaries
or
their
sort
of
floor?
So,
for
example,
the
other
way
around.
If
somebody
had
asked
us
would
we
have
told
them
forty
thousand
dollars
or
we
told
them
42
and
change
if
they?
If
we
were
asked
the
same
question,
that's.
B
What
I
want
that's
a
good
point.
I
was
asked
that
question
and
I
provided
them
with
the
the
base
salary
as
contained
in
the
bylaw.
So
what
I
may
do
is
do
some
follow
up
with
our
comparators
and
make
sure
I'm
getting
in
apples
to
apples
comparison
in
some
cases.
I
know
it
was
the
the
current
salary
now,
I'm
also
not
sure
if
other
municipalities
necessarily
factor
in
the
cost
of
living
increase.
So
I
can
do
some
double
checking
on
the
numbers
between
now
and
the
next
meeting.
F
F
If
you
can
tease
that
information
out,
they
kind
of
got
lost
in
the
in
the
narratives.
Here
I
wasn't
exactly
sure
so,
for
example,
the
first
two
slides
in
that
file,
the
first
one
is
average.
It
says,
including
average
of
eight
municipalities
and
the
other
one
says,
including
a
median
of
eight
municipalities,
but
within
a
specific
municipality.
I
couldn't
understand
how
the
two
numbers
would
change
unless
counselors
got
different
salaries
for
some
reason,
so
I
was
a
little
bit
confused
about
the
difference
functionally
between
the
first
two
graphs
sets
of
graphs.
B
B
May
have
been
an
error
on
my
part,
so
what
I
was
trying
to
indicate
is
that
the
last
in
each
graph,
the
last
two
sets
of
bars
indicate
what
the
averages
of
all
the
municipalities
and
what
the
median
is
for
all
the
municipalities.
So
the
individual
numbers
from
municipalities
are
just
one
straight
number.
So
what
you
see
for
kingston
is
just
kingston's
salary.
It's
not
any
averaging
out
of
different
council
levels
or
those
type
of
things.
F
F
D
G
B
Sure
I
have
a
a
plan
going
forward
is
from
the
the
information
I've
got.
It
seems
like
there's
a
bit
of
a
preference
towards
looking
at
a
ratio
in
terms
of
the
the
budget
aspect.
Indira
provided
me
with
an
interesting
way
of
looking
at
it
more
proportionality,
as
opposed
to
a
ratio,
a
different
metric.
B
G
B
A
A
B
I'll
make
a
quick
comment
here.
This
was
on
the
agenda
for
the
last
meeting,
but
unfortunately
we
didn't
have
time
to
get
to
it.
I
don't
think
it
begs
a
large
discussion
today
with
my
initial
work
plan.
I
think
we'll
probably
have
to
add
another
meeting
of
discussion.
I
don't
think
we're
quite
at
the
stage
where,
in
january,
at
the
19th
meeting,
we
can
present
a
draft
report.
I
think
there's
more
discussion
that
needs
to
be
had
and
I'm
not
seeing
anybody
disagreeing
with
that.
So
I
think
it
would
just
be
getting
people
thinking
about.
B
Is
there
anybody
who
would
be
interested
in
volunteering
to
either
help
author
or
to
author?
The
final
report?
Traditionally
it
has
been
a
committee
member
who's
taken
on
that
role.
Aya's
clerk
can
help
provide
some
support
to
that,
but
it
is
a
citizen-led
committee,
so
staff,
it's
not
like
a
traditional
case
where
staff
would
bring
a
report
and
then
the
committee
would
vote
on
it.
B
So,
basically,
looking
if
there's
anybody
who
would
be
interested
in
assisting
in
that
process
as
well
as
traditionally
the
person
who
has
authored
or
persons
who
have
authored
the
report
have
attended
the
council
meeting
where
it's
presented
to
help
provide
more
details.
Now
again,
it
doesn't
have
to
be
one
in
the
same,
so
it
would
just
be
seeing
if
there's
anybody
interested
in
taking
on
those
roles
laura.
B
I
would
say
just
to
avoid
any
awkwardness
that
people
don't
necessarily
have
to
put
their
names
out
here
tonight,
but
if
people
are
interested,
perhaps
what
they
can
do
is
contact
me
to
find
out
a
bit
more
and
it
can
be
more
discussed
at
a
future
meeting.
But
maybe
I'm
happy
myself
or
janet
can
answer
any
questions
about
that
process,
or
maybe
somebody
has
a
experience
working
on
this
in
the
past
that
can
help
guide
this
process
so
I'll
leave
it
at
that
and
open
it
up.
If
there's
any
thoughts
or
suggestions.
A
D
Yeah,
I
know
I
I
actually
don't
mind
I'll
consider
this.
I
just
need
to
get
through
this
holiday
season
before
I.
I
really
really
consider
it.
I
love
putting
this
stuff
together,
so
this
is
not
that's
not,
but
I'm
looking
at
the
document
that
was
sent
out,
city
of
kingston
city
council
agenda,
meeting
11
2018
report
39
received
from
the
council
remuneration
committee.
B
B
Get
through
a
decision-making
process,
so
that
is
not
something
that
has
currently
been
discussed
at
this
committee.
Just
I
don't
feel
that
it
might,
hopefully
it's
not
necessary
but
and
I'm
seeing
people
shaking
their
heads,
nodding
their
heads
in
agreement,
so
the
report
can
be
whatever
the
committee
or
the
drafter
wants
it
to
be.
But
yes,
that
is
a
good
template
there
and
I
think
janet
can
provide
some
more
context
as
she
was
involved
with
the
last
remuneration
committee.
G
Thanks
derek
yeah:
I
just
wanted
to
share
that
at
in
the
sort
of
the
last
iteration
of
this
committee.
There
were
some
additional
tasks
that
were
assigned
to
the
committee
that
this
committee
has
not
been
assigned
to
look
at.
One
of
those
was
the
the
loss
of
the
one-third
tax-free
component.
Previously,
a
third
of
a
council
member's
salary
was
considered
to
be
tax-free.
That
is
something
that
was
removed
at
the
at
the
federal
level.
G
So
the
committee
needed
to
assess
that
as
part
of
council's
overall
remuneration
and
the
potential
sort
of
income
tax
implications,
and
that
and
that
sort
of
thing
there
was
also
the
question
with
regards
to
part-time
versus
full-time
counselors,
which
was
in
the
previous
committee's
mandate.
But
as
we've
sort
of
touched
on
a
couple
times
tonight
is
not
within
the
scope
of
this
committee's
mandate,
so
that
did
lead
to
some
additional
volume
in
the
report
last
time
that
wouldn't
necessarily
wouldn't
need
to
be
included.
This
time.
B
Just
for
the
benefit
tonight,
I've
been
taking
some
more
detailed
notes
on
the
discussion,
because
I
feel
that
it
would
be
helpful
for
whoever
the
author
is
capturing.
Some
of
the
general
themes
of
the
discussions
we've
had.
These
won't
necessarily
be
included
in
the
meeting
minutes,
but
more
of
just
notes
for
our
own
purposes
as
a
committee.
Writing
that
final
report.
F
If
you
could
save
us
the
trouble
of
doing
the
math
ourselves,
if
you
could
calculate
based
on
the
the
metric
in
that
last
column,
of
what
the
mean
is
per
per
operating
budget
and
for
operating
plus
capital
budget,
what
that
would
correspond
to
if
we
multiplied,
you
know
kingston's
operating
budget
or
operating
plus
capital
budget
by
that
mean
value
or
or
median
value.
What
would
be
the
compensation
just
to
save
us
that
step
to
have
so
we
can
all
agree
on
what
that
calculation
is.
That
would
be
helpful.
I
think
I
can
do
that
thanks.