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From YouTube: Kingston Ontario - EITP Meeting - June 7, 2017
Description
Environment, Infrastructure and Transportation Policies Committee meeting from June 7, 2017. For the full meeting agenda visit https://goo.gl/ft838J
A
Good
afternoon
everybody
I
just
going
to
let
everybody
know
that
I'm
calling
the
meeting
to
order
I'd
like
to
start
off
with
getting
an
approval
of
the
agenda.
If
I
could
councillor
Neill
and
seconded
by
Councillor
shell,
do
we
have
confirmation
of
the
minutes
from
the
May
9th
May
9th?
Oh
sorry,
we
have
to
sorry
I'm
skipping
through
well.
Can
we
vote
on
the
agenda?
All
those
in
favor
passes
unanimously
confirmation
of
the
minutes,
councillor
Neill
and
councillor
shell.
A
A
B
B
Might
have
to
do
a
demo
in
which
case
I'll
go
there,
but
so
drop
like
in
comparison
to
the
conventional
bike.
Sharing
systems
you
might
be
familiar
with
is
is
free
from
physical
Docs,
so
maybe
I
can
show
you
how
it
works.
So
I
have
the
drop
bike.
Smart
phone
application
here
on
my
phone
right
here,
so
I'm
just
launching
it
and
there
it
is
so.
Let's
imagine
I'm
walking
around
you
know
the
city
by
the
way,
a
quick
background.
B
I
spent
five
years
living
here
went
to
Queens
big
fan
of
the
city,
especially
in
the
summer,
so
I'm
walking
around
what
I
can
see
is
the
nearest
I'm.
Looking
basically
I
need
to
look
for
a
bike.
I
opened
I
launched
the
application
I
check
where
the
nearest
bike
is
I.
Click
on
lock,
I,
walk
up
to
the
bike.
B
So
once
you
finish
riding
the
bike,
we
don't
want
people
to
just
leave
these
bikes
anywhere,
especially
you
know
in
the
middle
sidewalks,
etc.
So
what
we
require
our
riders
to
do
is
is
find
a
bike
rack
or
bike
post
that
is
pre
registered
in
the
smart
in
this
draw
bike
application.
So
how
do
you
do
that?
Well,
let's
say
you're
done
riding
this
is
a
screen
you'll
see
right
and,
and
you
basically
look
at
the
screen
and
they'll-
tell
you
where
the
nearest
drop
bike.
B
Haven
is
so
a
drop-by
cabin
is
simply
the
new,
a
bike
rack
or
bike
post
that
you're
allowed
to
park
these
bikes
at
right
again.
We
do
this
because
we
don't
want
people
to
just
leave
the
bikes
anywhere.
So
these
are
virtual
docks
if
you
will-
and
we
work
with
the
city
to
figure
out
where
these
are
going
to
be.
So
actually
we
have
a
hypothesis
here,
so
that's
McDonald
Park,
some
main
Queens
University,
some
along
you
know
king
and
princess.
But
again
this
is
kind
of
like
a
preliminary
kind
of
thought.
B
But
the
point
here
is
to
show
you
that
let's
say
we
decide
that.
Oh
you
know
what.
Maybe
we
should
change
a
couple
of
spots
for
us.
It's
very
simple
to
do
that
because
we're
we
have
a
soft
piece
of
software
right.
So
anyway,
you're
done
riding,
you
click
end
trip,
and
now
what
we
do
is
we
ask
the
user.
So
the
first
thing.
B
That's
the
demonstration
I
might
be
worth
zooming
into
a
couple
things
first.
Why
did
we
ask
you
to
take
a
picture?
That's
actually
very
important.
So
there's
a
few
reasons.
First
psychologically,
we
determine
duct
on
the
system
when
you
know,
as
a
writer
that,
at
the
end
of
your
trip,
you
have
to
take
a
picture
you
might
you
might
you
might
treat
the
bike
with
a
bit
more
respect
but,
more
importantly,
we
actually
get
location
coordinates
where
the
drop,
but
where
the
drop
bike
has
been
left,
the
exact
longitude
and
latitude.
B
So
now
we
know
the
last
rider
to
have
used
the
bike
where
the
bike
was
left
and,
finally,
the
exact
look.
Sorry
the
condition
of
the
bike,
because
we
have
a
picture
right.
So
the
second
point
I'll
bring
up
is
in
terms
of
in
terms
of
cost
to
the
rider
because
we
have
removed
the
most
expensive
part
of
a
sort
of
conventional
bike
share
system.
B
The
physical
doc
riders
can
ride
this
for
just
$1
per
hour
and
finally
might
be
worth
actually
talking
about
walking
you
through
some
of
the
features,
if
you
will
of
the
bike
to
to
kind
of
illustrate
how
much
thought
we
put
into
this.
So
this
bike
actually
has
foam
based
tyres.
They
don't
go
flat
and
every
screw
on
the
bike
is
anti-theft,
so
it
requires
a
special
screwdriver
that
only
we
have
a
draw
bike
to
unscrew
something,
more
importantly,
every
part
on
the
bike
is
is,
is
a
non-standard
part,
so
that
disincentivizes
sort
of
feeds?
B
If
you,
if
you
take
you
know
the
pedals,
there's
really
nothing
much
you
can
do
with
them,
and
the
rear
light
is
actually
interesting.
The
rear
light,
the
entire
module
has
a
solar
panel,
an
accelerometer
and
an
anti
ambient
light
sensor,
built
right
in
to
the
piece.
That's
this
big
on
the
rear,
the
rear
sort
of
tire.
So
when
you're
riding
at
night
it'll
light
up,
I
mean
there's,
you
know
front
and
rear,
reflectors,
etc.
B
The
point
is:
we've
sort
of
mapped
all
the
regulatory
requirements,
of
course,
into
mic
receipts
adjustable
so
on
and
so
forth.
We
have
a
unibody
belt
that
is
just
more
ergonomic
for
riders
and
so
that's
drop
bike.
It's
you
know
it's
green,
it's
healthy!
It's
convenient
it's
affordable
and
it's
accessible.
So
thank
you.
Thank
you
for
your
time,
I'm
happy
to
answer
questions.
B
B
C
Very
much
the
presentation
really
really
fascinating,
so
you
were
I
think
you
were
about
to
speak
to
us
about
how
the
payment
system
works.
Are
you
registered
through
the
app
and
if
you
could
just
maybe
talk
about
what
any
potential
privacy
issues
there
might
be
with
anyone
using
the
app
app
and
all
the
data
required
for
this?
Okay.
B
So
when
you
sign
up
for
drop
bike,
you
input
your
credit
card
information,
so
we
actually
use
a
company
called
stripe.
So
stripe
is
actually
an
industry
leader
in
this.
In
the
payment
space,
a
lot
of
technology
companies
use
stripe
as
a
payment
method
as
a
payment
platform.
In
fact
I
mean
you
know
some
I
guess
prominent
examples
would
be
uber
until
they
got
so
big
that
they
decided
to
build
their
own
payment
infrastructure.
B
So
we
actually
follow
stripes
privacy
policy
when
it
comes
to
credit
card
information
and
financial
information
in
terms
of
data,
we
don't,
as
a
company,
we're
strictly
against
the
only.
The
only
thing
that
we
are
okay
with
doing
with
data
is
sharing
with
the
city
with
which
we're
working
with
so
anonymize
data,
about
where
you
know
where
the
bikes
are
being
written,
for
example.
So
maybe
there's
interesting
things
there,
maybe
we'll
be
able
to
identify.
B
For
example,
McDonald
Park
has
a
lot
of
activity
in
terms
of
biking,
but
there
are
only
X
number
of
bike,
racks
and
bike
posts.
So
that's
something
just
good
to
be
aware
of,
but
that's
sort
of
our
we
don't
sell
and
do
not
intend
on
selling
this
data.
At
all,
I
mean
this
is
actually
on
our
website.
We
put
up
our
privacy
policy,
an
terms
and
conditions,
so
that's
that's
up,
and
obviously
it's
going
to
be
in
the
smartphone
application
to.
D
The
reason
I
ask
that
is,
as
a
former
resident
of
Kingston
I'm
sure
you're
aware
that
we
have
a
very
strong
anti
poverty
activist
group
in
town
and
I
I
can
perceive
there
being
a
complaint
that
only
people
with
smartphones
are
going
to
have.
Access
to
this,
which
may
be
a
complaint,
may
be
problematic.
If,
if
people
are
frustrated
because
they
can't
use
the
bike,
there
might
be
greater
bike,
vandalism
kind
of
thing
and
I
I,
don't
know
how
you
might
be
able
to
address
that
issue.
That's.
B
B
D
B
And
I
think
that's
good
to
be
aware,
that's
good
to
hear-
and
this
is
something
we're
definitely
going
to
tackle,
I
think
again
as
a
as
a
company.
That's
just
sort
of
we're
right
now.
What
we're
focused
on
is,
let's
see
if
we
can
make
this
work
at
a
small
scale.
That's
that's
what
we're
focused
on
and
we'll
learn
have
small
learnings
I
wish
we
had
the
resources.
B
I
mean
we've
built
an
Android
app,
an
iOS
app,
which
some
companies
take
over
24
months
to
build,
and
we
built
that
in
the
past
30
days
we've
been
working
around
the
clock
as
a
team
and
I
wish.
We
had
the
resources
to
or
the
bandwidth
to
just
to
build
something
that
was,
you
know,
non
smartphone
and
I'm
sure
we
will
but
again
for
the
pilot.
It's
going
to
be
purely
smartphone
focused.
D
They
the
I,
understand
that
this
is
the
first
model
and
that
there's
a
second
model
being
planned,
and
this
is
the
model
that
I
saw
quite
a
bit
last
time.
I
was
in
Toronto
in
the
downtown.
I
saw
a
number
of
these
right
next
to
the
Dixie
bike
stands
in
fact,
and
which
I
thought
was
smart
marketing,
but
I'm
I'm
just
curious
what
the
next
iteration
the
next
model
will
have
that
this
model
doesn't.
B
Right
so
a
few
things
were
again:
I
think
how
we,
just
as
a
pre
context,
how
we
work
as
a
company
is
with
the
sort
of
you
know
the
entrepreneurial
mindset,
which
is,
let's
learn
from
feedback.
Let's
learn
from
the
pilot,
so
some
of
the
feedback
that
we've
gotten,
which
which
we
were
going
to
implement,
which
we've
decided
to
implement,
is
so
these
bikes
actually
have
24
inch
tires.
So
our
next
generation
of
bikes
will
have
26
inch
tires,
but
somebody
actually
said:
wait
a
minute.
I
really
like
these
tires.
B
I,
don't
want
the
26
inch
tires.
So
then
we,
our
response,
was
okay,
that's
interesting!
Maybe
that
means
we
should
have
a
mix
of
bikes
because
I
prefer
the
24
inch
tires,
but
my
brother
who's
like
six
five.
He
can't
really
ride
this
comfortably.
So
that's
one
feedback.
The
other
is
B.
It's
one.
It's
a
single
gear
bike
right,
so
multi
gear
is
definitely
a
need
as
well,
because
it
depends
on
where
you're
riding
the
bike.
That's
also
something
we'll
add
so
three
gear
bikes
is
something
that
we're
looking
into.
B
Actually,
we've
decided
we're
going
to
do
in
the
next
generation
of
bikes
and
I'm
sure
we'll
come
up
with
creative
ideas.
So,
for
example,
you
know
solar
panels.
This
wasn't
something
we
were
going
to
do
two
months
ago,
but
it's
interesting
there's
you
know
it's
a
creative
power
supply
that
we
can
have
and.
D
B
I
we
don't
let
people
do
that
and
I'll
explain
why
we
won't.
Let
you
end
your
trip
if
you're
not
at
a
designated
Haven,
that's
really
important.
So
if
you
try
to
enjoy
a
trip
somewhere,
where
shouldn't
be
two
things
first,
we
won't.
Let
you
end
it.
Second,
if
you
choose
to
end
it
anyway,
which
we
give
you
the
option
for
its
flagged
in
our
system,
wait
a
minute.
B
Why
is
there
a
user
or
writer
who
decided
to
end
the
trip,
despite
not
being
at
a
you
know,
designated
Haven,
we'll
look
into
that
our
operations
team
will
be
identified,
we're
actually
going
to
have.
You
know
we
call
them
dry
pot
drop
drop
like
warriors,
we're
going
to
have
them
around
the
city,
six
to
eight
of
them,
and
these
are
part-time
students
and
people
from
the
community
and
they'll
put
the
bike
where
it
should
be.
But
sorry,
coming
to
your
point
about
the
taranta,
so
we're
actually
not
launched
in
the
City
of
Toronto.
B
B
Would
be
great,
so
we
are
actually
doing
that
and
actually
so
120.
So
the
terms
I
think
about
like
120
days
or
until
October
16th,
whichever
comes
first
so
that
actually
solves
that
problem,
because
we
prefer
that
to
I
mean
we
want
to
see.
You
know
what
happens
when
people
in
Queens
start
school
in
September.
B
E
B
Yeah,
so
not
not
these
locks.
Oh
sorry!
Actually,
coming
back
to
the
other
question
future
bikes,
the
future
bikes
will
have
GPS
and
Bluetooth
enabled
locks
as
well
and-
and
the
way
that's
actually
different-
is
that
with
these
locks
we
know
where
you've
left
the
bike.
So
we
know
the
location
of
the
bike
before
and
after
a
trip,
but
with
GPS
and
Bluetooth
locks.
We
know
the
exact
route
traveled
and
that's
more
valuable
to
the
city,
because
that's
more
valuable
data
right.
B
Sorry,
coming
back
to
your
question
about
is
from
the
source.
So,
with
these
locks,
these
are
manual
locks.
The
app
will
tell
you
the
combination
once
you
scan
the
QR
code
and
you
simply
plug
in
the
combination,
you
press
a
button
and
the
onboard
lock
unlocks
for
future
generation
bikes
that
won't
be
a
need,
you'll,
simply
press
a
button.
You
will
need
to
put
in
a
combination
because
it'll
be
an
electronic
Bluetooth,
GPS
enabled
lock
I.
E
Was
the
impression
I
got
from
the
written
thing,
but
it
seemed
to
be
a
combination.
I
wasn't
quite
sure
how
it
worked.
My
next
question
is
this:
you
have
costs
yet
to
buy
the
bikes.
You've
got
overheads.
You've
got
an
Operations
team
right.
You
got
to
pay
these
people.
Presumably
you
want
to
pay
yourself
so
at
a
dollar
an
hour.
How
are
you
making
money
yeah.
B
Of
the
cost
breakdown,
so
we
got
this
question
often
which
is
well.
You
know
one
dollar
per
hour,
wait
a
minute.
Why
does
that
make
sense?
So
we've
run
the
unit
economics
on
this,
and
if
we
we
can
be,
we
can
actually
survive
as
a
business
and
be
profitable
potentially
if
we
do
two
rides
per
bike
per
day
for
eight
rideable
months
a
year.
Now
that
being
said
again,
the
purpose
of
the
pilot
is
to
learn.
B
So
if
$1
too
low,
maybe
we'll
have
to
do
two
dollars,
but
we
don't
see
foresee
having
to
go
beyond
that
and
two
rides
per
bike
per
day.
How
do
we
get
that
number?
So
in
Washington,
for
example,
there's
actually
four
rides
per
bike
per
day.
This
is
basically
the
industry
standard,
but
a
more
conservative
estimate.
B
E
E
G
If
you
like,
the
bridge,
I
won't
read
them.
You
can
read
them.
If
you
have
questions
about
how
Keef
arrived
at
the
wording
of
those
the
issues
are
essentially
was
the
right
question
asked
to
bring
us
to
the
answers
that
we're
now
looking
at.
With
regard
to
the
third
question,
was
the
right
question
asked
and
our
contention
that
a
key
for
conclusion,
the
consensus
of
Keith,
was
it?
G
No,
that's
not
obviously
the
case
and
second
point
we're
making
is
in
a
light
of
many
things
that
are
going
on
right
now
that
this
whole
issue
is
poorly
timed
for
a
final
decision
that
it's
worth
having
that
in
mind
as
you
deliberate
whenever
it
is
you're
going
to
and
further
say
that,
Keith
was
given
about
four
hours
to
look
at
this
question.
One
way:
another
I,
don't
I
can't
reproduce
for
you
all
the
ways
in
which
the
time
frame
telescoped
into
one
meeting
that
was
then
called
early,
but
there
was
more.
G
There
was
more
in
people's
minds
than
we
had
simply
time
to
to
express
and
bring
forward
to
you
so
I'll
I'll
leave
it
with
that
I'm
happy
to
take
questions
later
about
art.
That
put
the
two
points
that
we
raised
specifically
and
then
I
hope:
you'll,
listen
to
Rogers
delegation
as
a
citizen
within
with
the
fact
of
mind,
he
was
doing
this
as
preparatory
work
to
our
Keith
deliberations.
H
Okay,
thanks
Tom
I'll,
just
quickly
peek
page
through
this
and
stop
me.
If
there's
anything,
we
can
talk
about
it
later.
The
Kingston
transportation
master
plan
of
25th
2015
there
were.
There
was
a
version
in
20
2004,
then
one
in
2009
and
an
update
in
2015,
and
it
forms
one
of
its
one
of
the
foundation
documents
of
the
third
crossing
modeling,
the
2015
KTM
P,
was
seriously
flawed.
I
think
you
probably
remember
it
took
about
a
year
to
get
through
committee
and
council.
H
H
Some
of
the
modeling
I'll
explain
later
they
basically
assuming
74%
of
mode
sharing
cars
and
the
the
few
other
flaws
with
that
whole
study
was
that
major
upgrades
to
transit
were
not
incorporated
and,
as
we
know,
Transit
has
made
some
tremendous
improvements
in
the
last
few
years
and
there
was
no
discussion
of
greenhouse
gases.
Bau
means
business
as
usual.
It
was
a
business-as-usual
document.
Let's
just
keep
doing
what
we're
doing.
H
I
just
mentioned
that
Kingston's
road
network,
as
it
is,
is
oversupply
because
it
was
designed
on
level
of
service
D,
which
means
that
even
at
peak
capacity,
we
only
have
90
percent
of
the
roads
being
used.
So
that
would
mean
that
if
you
had
a
restaurant,
you
would
keep
ten
percent
of
your
tables
empty
permanently.
Even
at
your
peak
time,
I,
don't
think
that's
a
good
business
plan.
So
that's
why
I
think
we're
over
supplied.
H
That
is,
that
changed
in
the
EA
for
the
third
crossing
was
evaluated
using
the
same
level
of
service
D
and
because
that
was
in
effect
in
2012.
In
the
2015
Kingston
master
plan,
a
transportation
master
plan.
We
went
to
level
of
service
E,
which
means
that
we
would
have
a
hundred
to
five
hundred
percent
capacity
at
at
peak
pet.
Only
at
the
peak
times,
one.
H
But
we
engineering
did
their
jobs.
We
asked
them
in
2010
to
investigate
the
feasibility
of
implementation,
additional
transportation
capacity
across
cataract.
We
River,
and
we
know
that
with
what
we
didn't
and
what
we
should
have
asked
them
was
that
they
would
include
all
these
things
that
we
now
know
are
necessary
to
to
reduce
single
occupancy
vehicles.
We.
D
H
A
D
H
Sorry,
it's
a
little
bit
complicated.
So
thank
you
very
much.
So
we
should
have
asked
the
question
differently
and
this
is.
This
is
basically
a
reminder
of
what
was
what
was
what
the
law
of
the
financial
model
for
proposed
in
the
Kingston
transportation
master
plan
and
you'll
see
on
the
far
right
that
the
ones
in
red
brackets
are
what
the
council
changed
in
in
the
transportation
master
plan.
They
upped
those
those
mode
shares
and
they
made
it.
H
H
So
the
main
thing
one
of
the
things
I
wanted
to
talk
about-
was
the
two
major
major
papers
on
fundamental
laws
of
road
road
congestion
and
and
when
they,
when,
when
it's
talked
about
as
a
law,
it's
probably
pretty
sure
so,
in
other
words,
this
is,
is
to
put
it
simply
so
to
to
economists
from
the
University
of
Toronto.
Did
this
in
2009
they
basically
looked
at
us
data
for
the
last
40
50
years
and
and
said
there
I
just
highlighted
in
red.
We
find
that
vkt,
which
is
vehicle
kilometers
traveled
increases
proportionate
to
highways.
H
That's
like
saying:
if
you
build
a
road
it'll
get
filled,
so
the
law
of
congestion
basically
means
that
if
we
build
more
roads,
they
will
get
used,
they
don't
relieve
congestion.
Okay,
you
can't
build
your
way
out
of
congestion.
It's
been
I
can
go
over
this
in
more
detail.
If
you
give
me
a
bit
of
time,
but
there
were,
there
was
another
paper
by
man
named
Todd,
Lippmann
I
think
who's
come
here
talked
to
us
about
about
things,
and
he
said
the
same
thing.
H
It
also
in
imposes
costs
which
include
downstream
congestion,
accidents,
parking
costs,
pollution
and
other
environmental
impacts,
and
that's
that's
what
we
sometimes
call
induced
demand.
Okay,
that's
that's.
This
whole
notion
of
induced
demand,
and-
and
the
third
point
is
that
really
it
only
we
keep
producing
roads.
So
people
do
the
marginal
value
trips,
because
they're
there,
the
roads
are
there.
H
H
And
I
just
wanted
to
get
to
a
standard
definition
of
traffic
you're,
never
stuck
in
traffic.
You
are
traffic.
We
talked
about
the
future
of
urban
transportation
and
I
think
there.
The
future
is
really
quite
different.
It's
difficult
to
predict,
but
Anthony
Foxx,
who
is
the
US
Secretary
of
Transportation
in
the
Obama
administration,
said
that
the
reality
of
a
transportation
is
that
it
is
future
oriented
if
we're
planning
for
what
we
have.
H
We
are
behind
the
curve
and
I
just
I'll
stop
here
at
this
info
info
Graham
that
that
tell
if
that
tells
you
talked
about
three
revolutions,
so
there's
the
the
left-hand
side,
which
is
business
as
usual,
and
that's
what
we're
heading
for
it
and
we
will
result
or
the
planet.
Earth
has
roughly
about
a
billion
cars
right
now
in
2010.
We
will
double
that
by
2050
in
the
middle
scenario.
That's
this
the
first
part
of
the
revolution,
or
they
call
revolution
which
would
be
electrification
of
everything
plus
autumn
automation,
so
connected
cars
autonomous
vehicles.
H
If
we
just
keep
doing
the
same
mentality
of
single
occupancy
vehicles,
I'm
sure
we
will
have,
we
will
save.
What
you
see
on
the
bottom
panel
is
what
the
reduction
of
greenhouse
gases
are
and
in
the
old
model,
you
have
something
like
4.6,
megatons,
4,600,
the
middle
scenario,
where
we
only
do
what
we
do
now,
only
with
electric
and
connected
vehicles.
We
drop
down
nicely,
but
it's
still
1700
megatons.
C
Thanks
so
thanks
for
the
presentation,
I
guess
the
I'm
going
to
use
an
analogy,
I
think
just
Internet
when
you're
talking
about
congestion
and
how
we
essentially
that
that
should
be
the
goal
that
we
should
be
increasing
congestion
to
change
behavior
in
order
to
reduce
greenhouse
gases.
Ultimately,
which
is
something
I
agree
with.
However,
politically
it's
a
little
more
complicated,
for
example,
though
I
guess
the
analogy
that
might
be
helpful
and
I
just
want
oppose
this
as
a
question,
because
I
would
like
to
know
your
thoughts
on
various
alternatives
to
the
bridge,
for
example.
C
So
the
when
we
have
people
looking
to
park
curbside
in
the
city
they
drive
around
and
around
looking
for
parking,
as
I
did
on
my
way
here
and
burn
gas
while
they
do
that
and
create
greenhouse
gases,
and
then
I'm
not
entirely
sure,
if
we're
at
this
point
yet.
But
there
has
been
a
recognition,
at
least
in
the
city,
that
that
parking
should
be
therefore
more
expensive,
that
we
should
deter
people
from
parking
there
and
up.
But
if
we're
going
to
deter
them
from
parking
there,
we
need
to
move
them
to
two
lots.
C
A
little
bit
further
away
or
in
the
downtown
but
whatever
so
this
so
there's
a
deterrent
in
terms
of
cost
and
there's
an
alternative.
So
do
you?
What
would
you
propose
to
facilitate
this
transition
through
to
lower
greenhouse
gas
emission
all
together
and
through
increased
congestion
and
trying
to
change
people's
behavior?
Is
that
do
you
have
anything
in
mind
that
would
sort
of
emulate
the
types
of
decisions
that
we
tend
to
see
as
that
the
best
way
to
move
forward,
which
is
to
change
behavior,
but
also
provide
alternatives.
H
H
H
Although
that
you
know
they're
not
right
at
the
point
where
they've
got
these
smart
parking
meters
that
will
adjust
the
price
based
on
the
demand,
but
but
they're
almost
there
and
I,
don't
think
it's
very
far
away.
But
but
congestion
pricing
in
general
is
a
way
to
to
control
and
make
it
make
it
it's
the
same
as
the
parking
spots,
and
only
only
over
the
whole
transportation
mechanism,
and
so
of
course,
you'd
have
to
have
exemptions
for
people
who
work,
and
you
know,
take
people
who
have
an
obligation
to
be
somewhere.
G
G
So
there
was
just
a
presentation
about
a
way
to
facilitate
the
use
of
bikes
that
becomes
more
attractive,
but
people
are
less
a
less
able
to
get
in
their
car
and
go
wherever
they
want
whenever
they
want
yeah
and
the
second
one
of
the
are
the
motion
that
we
brought
forward
had
to
do
with
technological
transformation
that
people
are
talking
about
now
and
those
include
things
like
uber
and
automated
vehicles,
and
if
congestion
is
an
issue
of
congestion,
is
putting
pressure
on
people
to
alternatives.
The
likelihood
that
they'll
take
up
those
alternatives
increases
it.
G
It's
not
necessarily
the
responsibility
of
municipal
council
to
figure
out
how
it's
all
going
to
go.
There's
there's
it.
There
are
a
lot
of
factors
that
will
come
to
bear
of
congestion
increases.
The
flip
side
of
it
is
what
we
were
describing
it
to
you.
If
you
take
as
your
as
your
requirement
that
there
always
be
capacity
to
handle
whatever
amount
of
traffic
might
possibly
arise,
then
you
know
where
you're
going
and
it's
a
place
that
people
generally
think
is
not
desirable.
I
could
say
more
if
you
like
any.
F
Thank
You
mr.
chair
and
many
of
these
discussions,
we
talked
about
particularly
European
cities,
where
bicycles
are
very
important
and
transits
very
important
and
and
supported,
and
we
do
have
a
government
here.
That's
talking
about
high-speed
rail
between
Toronto
and
Hamilton,
but
as
a
councilor
looking
at
cities.
One
of
the
issues
I
find
is
you
need
the
people
to
be
close
enough
to
where
they
want
to
be
to
use
alternate
modes
of
transport.
I'm
talking
about
intensification
in
the
long
run.
F
You
know
we
have
a
city
with
all
the
services
in
the
core
and
then
people
coming
into
the
core
in
cars
and
people
living
working
in
the
East
living
in
the
West,
and
this
constant
back
and
forth
of
people
coming
from
the
east
into
Queens.
From
that
I
mean
it.
It's
quite
the
Travel
just
like
any
city,
but
we
don't
seem
to
have
an
interest
in
the
city
in
intensifying
in
the
core
as
well,
so
that
people
can
live
closer
to
where
they
work
and
shop.
So
is
that's
when
they
did
it
in
Europe.
F
Did
it
come
naturally?
Did
people
fight
it
like
they
do
here?
How
did
Europe
get
to
be
so
dense
in
their
core
city
cores
so
that
they
could
have
high-speed
transportation
right
inside
the
city?
You
know
right
in
the
heart
of
you'll,
see
no
cars
in
places,
it's
just
transit,
but
that
meant
they
got
people
living
down
there
really
intense
ways
and
that's
part
of
I
find
our
problem
as
councillors.
How
to
persuade
citizens
that
you
also
need
the
people
living
in
these
dense
communities
to
make
it
all
work.
So
you
can
bike
everywhere.
F
You
want
to
especially
as
you
age
you're,
not
going
to
buy
20
kilometers
to
work
and
back
I.
Don't
know
that!
There's
any
answer
right
about
this,
but
this
is
part
of
the
conversation
about
things
like
the
bridge
and
roads
and
Kingstown
visioning
when
we're
going
to
add
roads
to
allow
an
area
to
intensify
for
business
purposes,
an
area
that's
essentially
empty.
You
know
that
we're
trying
to
work
out
ways
so
we're
and
I
think
what
I'm
trying
to
say
is
we're
trying
to
think
of
transportation.
F
G
The
quicker
I
can
come
in
first.
A
quick
answer
to
the
Europe
question
is
that
the
cities
of
Europe
we're
dense
to
start
with,
and
then
traffic
patterns
have
always
been
more
challenging
and
the
need
for
alternatives
has
been
there
for
quite
a
long
time
and
they
figured
a
lot
of
the
medics
that
there's
more
to
it
than
that.
But
that's
the
general
form
of
the
answer
to
that
question.
The
there
are
a
couple
things
worth
bringing
bringing
into
that
conversation.
G
We
have
a
really
good
answer
to
what
might
still
be
the
wrong
question,
because
the
question
is,
we
were
told
by
the
consultant
engineer
who
was
at
our
last
meeting.
The
original
question
in
the
EA
was
about:
how
do
we
move
more
traffic
across
the
Cataraqui
River
the
need
and
best
way
to
facilitate?
We
said
to
them.
You
know
this
old
table.
If
you
have
a
hammer,
everything
looks
like
a
nail,
it's
more
than
that.
G
We
said
to
them
and
give
us
something
we
can
hit
with
a
hammer,
and
so
that's
been
the
tenor
of
the
fest
and
the
topic
of
the
conversation
ever
since,
and
it
comes
directly
to
your
question.
But
how
do
we
get
people
to
behave
differently
and
so
on
part
of
the
answer
to
that?
Is
we
look
at
it
with
the
same
determination
with
the
same
dedication
of
resources
that
we've
been
looking
at
the
bridge
I'm?
This
is
relevant
I'm
as
a
member
of
key
from
the
North
Kingstown,
Committee
and
I.
G
Keep
saying
and
keep
doesn't
really
get
traction
in
that
discussion,
that
I
understand,
but
I
keep
saying
we
want
everyone.
We
hear
speak
to
that
committee,
people
from
the
public
and
people
within
that
committee.
Everyone
I
think
that
exception
says
we
want
what
I've
been
calling
semi
autonomous
neighborhoods.
We
want
communities
where
walkable
destinations,
we
want
intensification,
we
want
commerce,
we
want
people
living
where
they
work.
G
Everybody
says
that
and
then
I
say,
but
we're
also
having
the
background
that
conversation,
the
ongoing
will
not
die
conversation
about
the
Wellington
Street
extension
and
we've
been
told
specifically
that
we
can't
discuss
the
bridge
and
john
counter
so
Michael
my
my
contribution,
they're
not
going
away
to
that
conversation.
How
can
we
talk
about
creating
meaningful
neighborhoods
in
a
place
that
you're
talking
about
wrapping
in
arterial,
roads,
you're
going
to
say
to
people
by
your
decisions?
Don't
don't
look
for
walk
or
destinations,
retail
and
work
here,
because
we're
providing
the
means
to
get
easily
elsewhere?
G
That's
an
important
part
of
this
discussion
ended
the
has
it
layers
directly
on
the
bridge.
No
one
has,
as
far
as
I
know
said.
What
is
the
root
problem
that
the
bridge
would
address
and
I
would
say
the
root
problem?
Is
you
have
too
many
keep
on
one
side
of
every
whining
wanting
to
go
to
the
other
socket
that
doesn't
necessarily
isn't
necessarily
best
answered
by
saying?
Okay,
here's
your
here's,
your
method
of
transportation,
whether
it's
the
401
or
a
ferry
or
I
would
say.
G
The
better
kind
of
answer
would
be
give
people
the
services
they
want
on
that
side
of
the
river.
So
they
don't
have
to
go
20
miles
across
town
to
the
Home
Depot
and
give
people
at
this
end
that
why
don't
you
say
anything!
Anybody
wants
them.
That's
either
they
cost
for
accept
jobs,
but
that
level
of
discussion
is
appropriate
and
the
resources
that
it
would
take
are
also
appropriately
spent
and
I.
Think
all
of
that
answers.
Your
question.
A
It's
it
would
be
very
difficult,
I
think
to
get
behind
something
like
this.
The
way
it's
written,
I'm,
not
sure
how
you
would
feel
about
that
comment.
My
feelings
are
that
it's
difficult
to
get
behind
this
with
the
way
it's
written
and
if
I'm
not
going
to
support
it,
I
figured
I
may
as
well.
Ask
you
the
question
directly
that
that's
kind
of
a
feeling
that
I
myself
may
have
sorry.
A
Just
figured
I'd
ask
you
directly
to
hear
your
response
that
this
the
way
it's
written
is
so
vague
and
there
aren't
really
strong
points
in
it.
It's
you
know.
There's
electric
vehicles,
you
really
like
services.
It
seems
very
vague
and
broad
trying
to
give
us
direction,
something
that's
quite
significant.
It
may
require
something
significantly
more
robust
than
this.
What
is
your
response
today?
A
G
Response
would
meaningfully
be
the
thing
he
preps
that
with
we
didn't
hear
about
this
until
and
when
we
weren't-
and
we
said,
can
we
talk
like?
Can
we
talk
about
this
and
can
we
get
in
here
and
then
there
was
a
attempt
to
schedule
a
meeting
that
didn't
work
and
then
another
meeting
was
scheduled
over
ours
and
there
should
have
been
more
time
where
Keefe
was
asked,
in
my
view,
for
Keith
and
therefore
EIT
were
given
the
opportunity
to
look
at
this
plan
and
bring
meaningful
comment
to
it.
G
That's
the
first
part,
and
so
the
fact
that
we
didn't
have
that
time
is
a
fact
and
I,
don't
think
it's
a
shortcoming
on
our
part
actually
like.
If,
if
there
wasn't
it's
me
and
someone
could
tell
me
what
I
should
have
done
in
future
I'd,
do
it
better,
but
that's
not
really
how
I
feel
about
it,
so
that
there's
that
I
think
the
points
that
we
boil
things
down
to.
G
In
the
conversation
we
had
in
the
conversation
we
had
at
our
last
meeting,
where
we
looked
at
this
specifically
with
there
was
another
poll
question
about,
but
something
else
we
decided.
No,
that's
not
relevant
we're
not
going
to.
We
don't
want
to
bring
that
forward,
and
then
we
listened
carefully
because
this
is
named
Frank
no
project
manager,
project
manager
for
the
bridge.
G
Franco
was
there
and
we
listened
carefully
to
what
he
said
about
these
and
other
comments
that
were
brought
forward,
and
at
the
end
of
that
we
said
this
party.
What
I
just
said
about
very
good
answers.
If
you
grant
all
of
it
and
say
a
very
good
answer,
kamcord
we
still
have
the
I
think
very
pointed
observation
that
it's
quite
possible.
G
What's
possibly
the
wrong
question,
that's
the
one
thing
and
the
thing
about
the
second
point
about
imminent
change
is
again.
It
comes
party
to
are
not
having
enough
time
to
give
you
all
the
examples
that
we
might
have,
but
I
don't
think
it's
a
controversial
thing
to
say
that
there's
a
lot
of
change
right
now
on
the
near
horizon
for
transportation
and
it's
quite
possible
that
the
context
within
which
the
decision
were
faced
with
has
changed,
and
that
would
be
our
further
observation
so
send
us.
Your
question:
have
I
changed
your
mind.
A
It
is
worthwhile
investigating
meaningful
alternative
urban
planning
options
to
reducing
traffic
congestion
and
greenhouse
gas
emissions
with
the
above.
A
decision
now
regarding
the
third
crossing
is
poorly
timed
in
that
there
are
technical
changes
imminent.
That
will
likely
impact
traffic
traffic
patterns
like
electric
vehicles,
uber
like
services,
ride-sharing
transport
management,
changes
in
autonomous
vehicles.
Do
I
have
a
mover
for
the
motion,
councillor
Neill
seconded
by
Councillor
Holland,
and
and
do
we
have
any
discussion
because
we're
new
I.
D
We're
always
told
that
the
401
is
not
meant
for
local
traffic,
but
the
reality
is
all
along
the
401
corridor,
local
traffic
utilizes
for
efficiency
reasons,
the
401
and
I
know
the
province
has
just
spent
a
hundred
and
sixty
some
million
dollars
to
widen
that.
Have
we
taken
that
into
account
when
we
looked
at
the
needs
assessment
for
a
third
crossing.
I
Through
your
mr.
chair
and
I
know
that
question
has
come
on
a
number
of
different
occasions
as
it
relates
to
highway
401
and
not
just
the
the
existing
capacity
of
a
four-lane
highway,
but
the
future
state
of
a
six
lanes
section
that
will
extend
between
Montreal
and
the
west
and
highway
15
in
the
east.
The
very
quick
and
easy
answer.
Your
question
is:
yes,
it
has
been
factored
into
the
modeling
work
that
the
city
has
done,
so
it
takes
into
account
any
of
the
intra
city
traffic.
I
D
I
I
But
again
we
do
have
that
information
as
it
relates
to
information
through
the
modelling
work
and
I
would
indicate
that
you
know,
though
the
model
is
is
a
is,
is
a
calibrated
model,
so
it's
yielding
good
results
in
that
respect,
that
we
would
have
some
confidence
in
terms
of
what
that
intra-city
volume
would
be.
That
would
be
using
the
401
and.
D
I,
remember
oh
in
2011,
or
perhaps
it
was
2012.
We
looked
at
some
plans
for
trying
to
mitigate
the
the
traffic
flow
across
the
causeway,
and
one
of
the
things
we
looked
at
am
was
strongly
encouraged
at
the
time
was
around
about
at
number
two
and
number
15
and
I
was
quite
hopeful
that
we
would
get
that
roundabout
and
then
take
another
look
at
the
traffic
flow.
Where
do
we
stand
with
that
and
wouldn't
that
mitigate
some
of
those
issues
on
the
causeway.
I
So
councillor
Neill
is
correct
in
that
circuit,
2011
I
believe
it
was
2012.
We
did
the
the
capacity
optimization
exercise
for
the
highway
2
corridor
and
that
looked
at
what
the
what
the
possible
options
were
to
try
to
maximize
the
capacity
of
that
particular
crossing
using
the
LOB
causeway,
and
there
were
a
number
of
different
items
that
were
recommended
to
make
those
improvements
at
a
granular
level.
They
included
traffic
signal
timing.
I
Some
synchronization
between
intersections
one
of
the
more
physical
improvements
that
was
put
into
place
was
the
extension
of
the
eastbound
left
turn
lane
at
highway,
2
and
15,
and
then
you're
correct.
Is
that
the
one
of
the
longer-term
recommendations
was
to
look
at
a
roundabout
at
highway,
2
and
15.
So
as
we
speak,
the
city
is
also
working
on
an
environmental
assessment
for
highway
15,
and
so
that
is
looking
at
in
terms
of
what
it
are
going
to
be.
I
One
of
the
options
is
around
it,
and
so
that
is
moving
for.
The
other
option
is
to
look
at
at
intersection
improvements
that
are
going
to
be
required
there
to
match
the
capacity
I
should
say
that
both
of
these
projects
work
in
concert.
So
your
your
transportation
system
improvements
are
looking
at
the
network.
I
Improvements
we're
not
looking
at
these
projects
in
an
isolated
manner
that
we
just
draw
a
box
around
highway
15
in
the
intersection
of
5e,
2
and
15
and
say
that's
an
isolated
project,
and
we
look
with
blinders
on
with
that,
and
then
we
turn
around
and
we
look
at
a
third
crossing
and
we
analyze
that
in
isolation,
these
projects
are
being
fit
together
and
they're
being
analyzed
in
that
manner.
So
the
the
improvements
that
will
occur
with
the
highway
15
projects
would
be
complementary
to
work.
That
would
happen
with
their
crossing
and
vice
versa.
I
I
So
again
the
environmental
assessment
for
high
of
82
and
15,
or
is
moving
that
project
forward
I,
don't
foresee
any
reason
why
those
improvements
won't
be
ultimately
implemented.
The
one
thing
I
will
draw
your
attention
to
is
that
the
the
final
conclusions
of
that
capacity,
optimization
study
that
was
done
in
2011-2012,
concluded
that,
even
with
all
of
those
improvements
being
made
along
the
highway
2
corridor,
including
the
roundabout
at
2
and
15,
it
still
wasn't
going
to
be
sufficient
to
negate
the
need
for
the
third
crossing
and.
D
Finally,
I
guess-
and
this
is
the
none
of
us-
have
a
crystal
ball.
So
it's
really
difficult,
but
I
continue
to
have
to
have
some
fear
that
what
we're
building
is
a
bridge
that
fits
more
readily
with
the
1980s
1990s
concept
of
future
traffic
needs
and
with
the
advent
of
self-driving
cars,
which
are
supposed
to
make
traffic
more
efficient
and
electric
cars
and
greater
car
sharing.
I
I
You
know
we
are
we're
believers
that
we're
going
to
actually
be
able
to
find
more
capacity
within
the
transportation
system,
and
there
may
be
technology,
that's
going
to
enable
that,
but
I
think
we
still
see
an
efficacy
and
the
third
grousing
that
can
still
fit
with.
All
of
that,
you
are
still
going
to
have
a
piece
of
infrastructure
that
still
enables
autonomous
and
connected
vehicles
to
use
that
or
transit
or
active
transportation.
All
the
things
that
I
think
we
are
going
to
anticipate
to
be
markers
of
the
future
transportation
system
for
for
our
community.
E
You
mr.
chair
just
went
back
to
the
question
of
the
modeling.
You
know
regarding
401,
you
soon
I've
discussed
this
many
times
and
with
that
and
I
asked
you
last
time
we
talked
with
two
an
apple
until
a
couple
months
ago,
whether
they
we
had
actually
done
the
tests,
which
you
again
said
today
that
we
have
not
about
how
much
401
usage
civilian.
E
E
Actually,
in
the
past
done
some
work
on
that
sort
of
thing,
almost
testing
hypotheses
and
so
on.
The
so
I'm
wondering
how
you
respond
to
that
because
we
don't
know
we're
dealing
with
a
model
which
is
a
series
of
algorithms
that
give
you
the
probabilities
of
something,
but
they
don't
actually
test
it
against
reality.
That's
an
extra
step
and
it's
an
extra
step
which
I've
been
recommending
for
years,
I'm
going
back
like
eight
years
or
something
and
personally
I
would
well
I
I.
Think
it's
the
responsible
thing
to
do
so.
I
I
Our
traffic
consultant
will
actually
be
with
counsel
as
part
of
the
special
counsel
meeting
to
be
held
next
week,
and
we
can
certainly
expand
more
in
terms
of
how
the
model
is
being
prepared,
how
the
model
is
being
calibrated
in
the
engineer.
The
traffic
engineers
opinions
as
it
relates
to
that
calibration
and
that
verification
process
for
the
model
and
how
well
it
is
actually
working
and
serving
as
a
predictor
for
future
traffic
volumes
within
the
city
of
kingston.
I
That's
that's
not
correct,
so
the
the
city
continues
to
to
take
traffic
counts
at
a
variety
of
different
locations
across
the
city,
so
those
traffic
counts
are
being
done
on
an
ongoing
continual
basis
and
those
do
serve
as
a
means
by
which
we
can
actually
do
that
process
of
both
calibrating
and
verifying
the
the
model.
So
so
I
would
caution
you
to
say
that
no,
it's
not
that
we
just
create
a
model,
and
we
don't
test
it
against
everything.
E
Okay,
that's
fair
enough!
Okay,
but
the
answer
to
the
question
have
we
done
the
counts
of
how
many
cars
are
using?
The
401
was
no,
whose
no
two
months
ago
and
I
was
no
tonight,
so
that's
the
crucial
number
how
many
vehicles
are
actually
using
the
401
that
are
coming
from
mostly
the
inside
and
going
back,
and
you
know
anecdotally
you
as
well
as
I,
but
just
talking
to
people
I
know
they're
doing
it
all
the
time
and
I
talked
to
people
and
they
come
to
conclusion.
E
Well,
it
would
be
nice
to
have
the
bridge
but
I
guess
it's
a
convenience.
That's
quote
actually
and
just
people
who
come
from
the
east
side
to
visit
one
right.
How
long
that's
taken
them!
I
grant
you
all.
Your
planning
is
both
into
the
future.
But
if
we
haven't
done
the
counts
of
how
many
cars
is
actually
using
it,
then
it
seems
to
me
that
is
a
lacuna.
There
there's
a
gap
in
our
knowledge
which
would
serve
as
a
test.
I
So
a
couple
of
things
there
one
is
a
more
of
a
qualitative
response.
That
is,
that
there's
no
disagreement
that
way.
401
is
actually
a
well
used
corridor
that
carries
an
awful
lot
of
that
intra
city
traffic
that
is
crossing
the
Cataraqui
River
and
in
fact
the
modeling
results
actually
show
that
that
of
all
of
the
crossings,
which
is
carrying
traffic,
your
401
corridor
is
actually
carrying
a
fairly
significant
volume
of
traffic
across
cataract
River.
I
The
issue
with
with
actually
trying
to
do
measurements
on
the
401
is
it
is
more
complicated
than
actually
just
trying
to
take
measurements
on
city
owned
streets.
Yes,
we
can
try
to
do
some
inferences
at
interchanges,
but
it
becomes
an
awful
lot
more
complicated
to
know
whether
or
not
those
vehicles
that
let's
say,
are
exiting
at
the
highway.
15
interchange
are
truly
just
City
traffic
or
if
they
are
intercity
traffic.
I
E
Okay,
okay,
I
would
just
say
this
that
the
response
was
gone
this
this
is
such
an
issue
because
jail
Richards
said.
As
comes
from
Neal
indicated.
This
is
going
back
to
2008
quickly.
They
said
that
401
was
not
to
be
used
by
local
traffic.
We
know
that
is
not
true.
Now
was
an
article
in
the
Kingston
Life
magazine.
They
quoted
representative
of
the
Ministry
of
Transportation
and
they
said
quite
clearly.
We
don't
care
what
kind
of
traffic
it
is.
We
don't
get
into
that.
E
We
just
know
we
have
to
carry
the
capacity
and
build
for
the
future.
However,
you
want
to
look
at,
and
so
that's
what
we
do
so
for
me
having
been
asking
to
this
for
paranal
nine
years,
I'm,
not
just
bothers
you
that
I'm,
sorry
I,
just
don't
think
it's
been
done
right.
The
other
question
I
have
is
one
of
the
things
that
means
suggested
by
people
live
on
the
east
side
even
and
other
people
is
why
we
would
not
look
at
the
did.
We
take
into
account
I.
E
E
Road,
the
gore
Road
extension,
you
know
how
it
goes
up
where
the
bridge
is
going
to
come
across
and
that's
coral,
which
is
perfectly
well
known.
The
idea
is,
has
been
for
like
decades
that
enrolled
a
parallel
road
15
would
run
through
the
military
base
out
to
the
401
so
that
military,
traffic
and
others
who
ever
wanted
to
use
it
could
miss
the
whole
highway
city
highway
in
exchange,
and
that
would
relieve
congestion
on
that
side
and
I
realized
systematically.
E
That's
not
everything
you
have
to
take
into
account,
but
as
far
as
that's
concerned,
it's
always
seemed
to
me.
That's
a
way
cheaper
than
a
bridge
I'll
just
say
which
I've
said
to
you
on
a
number
of
occasions
to
me
we
should
be
doing
everything
possible
not
to
build
a
bridge
because
it's
cheaper,
among
other
things,
way
cheaper,
so
and
also
addresses
all
these
other
environmental
issues.
Building
a
road
is
not
so
bad,
but
not
so
good,
but
at
least
it's
it's
addressing
some
of
the
issues.
I
That
would
basically
make
a
connection
from
highway
2
in
the
south,
up
to
Gore
Road
in
the
north,
with
some
change
in
leadership
at
the
base
that
that
option
of
that
opportunity
has
been
taken
off
the
table
and
there
has
been
no
expressed
intent
of
bringing
that
as
an
option
back
on
the
table.
So
so
that
is
not
something
that
is
being
further
brought
forward
in
terms
of
contemplation.
I
It
actually
probably
has
more
of
a
bearing
in
terms
of
the
environmental
assessment
that
is
that's
occurring
for
highway
15,
as
opposed
to
direct
implications
for
the
third
gossip,
but
in
any
event
that
that
was
a
discussion
that
was
occurring
with
CFP
Kingston
at
the
time,
but
not
on
the
table.
At
this
point,.
E
Fair
enough,
the
leadership
that
CFD
has
changed
a
couple
of
times
in
Santo,
but
we've
never
picked
up
the
discussion
with
them
and
I.
Think
the
connection
to
congestion
welded
to
the
third
Crossing
is
how
you
get
traffic
into
the
base,
the
largest
employer
on
that
side,
then
in
the
city
actually,
and
so
that
addresses
that
issue
in
part.
So
that's
that's
the
the
rationale
behind
it,
but
you
what
you're
saying
then
is?
I
E
E
One
of
the
other
things
that
I
think
the
taken
into
account
is
a
I've,
never
understood
why
we
didn't
address
the
emergency
issue
by
building
a
medical
facility
of
always
supposed
to
military.
Has
a
hospital
over
there.
So
would
we
did
we
take
that
into
account?
I
mean
that
wasn't
in
the
beginning
that
wasn't
even
on
the
table,
but
it
is
now
they're
building
it
as
we
speak.
So.
I
But
it's
also
geographically,
where
that
is
going
to
occur
within
the
city
and
that
information
is
used
to
inform
that
the
transportation
of
that
traffic
model
that
we
have
to
then
make
predictions
in
terms
of
where
that
those
kurtz
are
going
to
take
place.
So
I
caution
you
that
it
isn't
just
one
specific
development
that
that
is
occurring,
that
that
will
either
validate
or
remove
the
need.
I
I
think
you
need
to
consider
that
this
is
going
to
be
population
and
employment,
growth
and
growth
and
development
that
is
going
to
occur
over
the
course
of
the
next
twenty
year
period.
In
time.
That's
the
information.
That's
feeding
into
the
traffic
model
thus
was
we're
using
to
look
at
at
the
requirements
and
the
needs
for
the
transportations
in
the
city.
A
You
I
guess
the
only
comments
I'd
make
her
that
as
I
expressed
to
the
delegation
I
feel
like
the
wording
of
this
particular
motion
is
not
necessarily
a
positive
reflection
on
Keith,
I.
Think
and
I
understand
that
there
was
time,
restraints
and
I
think
we've
all
gone
through
different
scenarios
in
our
lives,
where
things
kind
of
happened
a
bit
frantically
towards
the
tail
end
of
something
where
you
get
short
notice.
Or
what
have
you?
A
But
my
concern
is
that
looking
at
this,
if
it
was
articulated
in
a
in
a
very
strong
way
that
even
I
didn't
agree
with
I
would
still
support
it,
because
it's
giving
valid
arguments,
there's
many
valid
arguments.
I'm
glad
I
asked
a
question
of
the
delegation,
because
I
think
that
they
gave
a
good
response
that
had
valid
points,
but
I
personally
believe
that
those
points
are
valid
towards
the
city
and
its
entirety
as
best
practices
to
get
people
from
using
motorized
vehicles
and
what-have-you
I.
A
Don't
think
it's
specifically
a
third
Crossing
issue
and
I
think
that
as
an
entire
community,
we
should
look
at
some
of
the
points
that
were
raised
by
the
delegation.
In
order
to
get
people
to
to
get
away
from
motorized
vehicles,
the
problem
is
living
in
Kingston
and
experiencing
some
of
the
traffic
issues
with
not
having
multiple
transfers.
Transportation
to
and
from
the
east
side
has
become
quite
a
significant
problem.
That's
my
stance.