Kingston City Council, Ontario Environment, Infrastructure & Transportation Policies, 8 Oct 2019

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From YouTube: Kingston Ontario - EITP Committee - October 8, 2019

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Environment, Infrastructure and Transportation Policies Committee meeting from October 8, 2019. For the full meeting agenda visit https://www.cityofkingston.ca/residents/city-calendar-events/-/calendar/QUmzuR567ExT/event/38081639

A

Hello, everyone we're gonna, get started. We got 5 out of 6 members, so we have quorum, it's 6:05 and so I'm calling the meeting to order. We have an agenda. You'll see the agenda, it's basically the usual format. A couple of delegations couple of items of business, some correspondents so need a mover and seconder for the agenda as printed moved by Councillor Doherty, the second by a counter Oh Sanok. Any proposed changes to the agenda.

A

Seeing none all those in favor opposed and that carries, and then we have the confirmation of minutes from August 6th need a mover who is present at that meeting, moved by Councillor Doherty in a seconder answer, Neal any errors or omission of those minutes.

A

Seeing none we'll vote on the minutes, all those in favor pose and that carries disclosure of unary interest, seeing none delegations. So we have two delegations. The first is Joyce Joyce Hostin resident, who is speaking to us regarding front yard, Gardens, Boulevard, gardens and community gardens.

A

So you come up to the lectern here once you're ready to go I believe you have a presentation. Yes, so she has a presentation and you have five minutes for your presentation and then there are questions after that. I do keep track of time and I will give you a one minute warning.

B

Striving for the perfect lawn, which we now know our climate disaster, they're contributing to our problems, it's time to reimagine, curb appeal which I don't know if you know, but a leaf blower in one afternoon emits as much as a old Ford truck driven across coast-to-coast.

B

We need to adopt landscape care practices that submissions store, carbon and increase biodiversity. This is Lake size, pollinator garden, which we had 13 different species of butterflies and in one hour we also need to reflect in our landscapes our place and take a look. Can you tell which is Kingston versus Saudi Arabia versus Texas versus New York? You can't and yet we're Kingston we're unique and also to promote the well-being of current and future generations of all beings.

B

Our forgotten Ally is nature right now. 1% of public discussion is about natural climate solutions. 3% of funding natural climate solutions offer immense possibility for helping Kingston achieve our strategic goals, particularly demonstrating leadership and climate action and fostering health, healthy citizens and vibrant spaces. Our bylaws, though, needs some tweaking our yard bylaw and our noise bylaw.

B

We live our Tarrant. The territory that we inhabit is hona nashoni, an Amish nabi we're not really reflecting that we're in the mixed wood plains, ecozone great lake st. lawrence, that's my front yard, which was profile this summer in the press and that's a natural forest. We also our native grasslands of Nappanee plain a really unique ecosystem which we're not reflecting in our landscaping. There's a movement afoot and I'm not talking about the climate strikes that have been going on.

B

I'm talking about a positive movement already happening in Kingston across our city, we're starting to see people convert their front lawns into natural landscapes into wild scapes that invite biodiversity that store carbon in the soil that help with food security and just beautify. Our city promote community.

B

These are all in Kingston.

B

Are asked and with master gardeners, is that the city modeled the way with new practices, organic mowing and land care practices experimenting with polyculture hydroseeding update policies to help US citizens take action, so bylaw changes so that we don't have to mow.

B

We can have grass ornamental and native grasses banning two-stroke engines targeting targets and incentives, considering those for converting our lawns co-create with partners, experiences that helped trigger behavior changes, so simple processes for adopting green spaces Paris has a very simple form that you can fill out supporting wild scaping and food scaping here and here's what we can offer. We are started while escaping workshops and building content on our website. We can offer region, specific resources, expertise and education, help activate citizens and offer support in events and ideas like stop putting your leaves out, behavior change.

B

This is going to be our big challenge. Changing ideas about the perfect lawn is really about me, educating people to think in a different way, and yet 36% some studies say of climate action can be done by individuals, changing practices, and that includes changing how individuals care for their lawns. The outside look at those landscapes- just imagine ones in Seoul, Korea, the other ones in Kingston, but also upsides, include demonstrating climate leadership. The fostering healthy citizens and vibrant space.

A

B

Innovating new business models- this is one that I was just talking to the director of social innovation at Queens and their master's program and she's really excited about the innovation possibilities of natural climate solutions around the world. Things are happening that we're not currently doing Atlanta 10-acre food for us to tackle food security, katara, a productive permaculture campus, the whole university they're, converting Paris 50% of their city is targeted for porous in areas.

B

That's the proposed garden, Leone planting Sheffield, transforming from grey to green Seaside, Florida only native plants and front yards Toronto, biodiversity strategy, Sweden other countries, naturalizing parks and public spaces. Christchurch, an edible city because of das disaster resilience, Victoria, Boulevard, gardens.

B

Edible trails are springing up across Kitchener partnering with citizens to love their hoods, converting brown spaces to wild scapes and food scapes. Natural climate solutions offer immense possibility for helping Kingston for helping us achieve our climate and strategic goals, and we Master Gardeners can partner with you and helping you achieve those goals, but need your support.

A

Okay, you obviously rehearse that to get it into five minutes. That's.

C

A lot of information very.

A

Very well done so. Questions from the committee are now in order. Councillor Doherty.

D

Yes, thank you, your presentation. There was a lot there and I wonder if I have two questions. One is I. Would love to have a copy of your presentation just to really have a chance to look at it closely and also when you say we you need you our support. Like? Can you be more specific about that? Well,.

B

Okay, support in terms of reflecting by your own landscaping practices to showing the way by starting to do this in your own public spaces. So words, I, purchased, could be converted into meadows, setting targets and incentives. So that's another way of supporting is setting a target and saying can 25% Kingston convert front lawns prototyping, so prototype polyculture hydroseeding?

B

We are talking around the Oak Street KMP trail there about a potential experiment there so just and there seems to be some receptivity, so just official receptivity to the experiments that we want to try updating the yard and noise bylaws. So technically, most of those things in the yards that you saw are breaking the bylaws. So somebody complain, probably the city wouldn't I and we have in the wild, scraping work that we've started.

B

I had and put a limit on ten people to sign up, one of them was actually out of town and the reason she moved out into the country was because the city came and mowed down her perennials, her edible patch and charged her than six hundred and some dollars. So she left the city, and so the bylaws are impacting banning the two-stroke engines. I mean that's introduced and that's just the emissions that they pollute, that they give off introducing.

B

So in trying to adopt a public space right now we have to create a community garden. Can a board of directors get liability insurance go through and lakeside we're just about to plant our edible forest two years into it? That's a long time to go through a process. Paris has this really short little form, that's I, think eight questions and then the city offers seeds and they offer soil if necessary.

B

There's not this huge process that makes it pretty much impossible for like there's a little verge I would adopt, but I can't because I'm not gonna, create a community garden and just.

B

Events and so supporting so if we want to run event or maybe the city will sponsor event, but one of the ones that is the concept of an edible trail which could be either like right now, there's a community garden day which promotes going across to different community gardens on that day. Some say these are doing that as an edible trail, which is a combination of local foods, so restaurants that serve local food yards that have converted themselves in community gardens. Others are doing it in a more permanent fashion.

B

So imagine if knp trail had all along the trail. Things like Saskatoon, berries, berry, bushes, maybe some apple trees in places where people would care for the apple trees, because they need more care, and then that would encourage more people out. So that would be another way in saying not doing the traditional landscaping and say: hey community. Do you want to help you know? Do you want our support to do something different here.

D

Thank you very much for your rich presentation. I really really enjoyed it.

B

Is Derek and Sharon it's just on Google Drive and there is links in the notes section thanks.

D

Thanks I do have one more question, just one.

A

Second Derek: did you not already share that information with members of the committee? That's.

E

Correct so the presentations are on the you drive in the folder, where the agenda is.

D

Okay, excellent memory: do you so my other question was: do you include the indigenous community and I'm sure they have a lot of local experience and also knowledge? That would be great in in with the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. This may be a really great opportunity, as well yeah.

B

We're trying to increase our ties with that at lake side we did have there's someone who comes out every year and does a three sisters guild workshop and unfortunately, she's gone up to take on elder role in Northern Ontario, but there is with the Cassie group. So we need to find more partners in that community. So right it's an intention, but it's not there. Yet. Okay.

A

Council, mr. huff you're up next.

F

Thank you for your presentation, joyed that went fast, but I think what my colleague was asking too is we want we really. The time is now we hear you and all that you've presented resonates with me and I think with all of us, and so we don't want to lose you Wednesday, and we want to stay in touch with you and how I feel like saying. How can we not drop the ball?

F

How can we keep this moving forward and you know I know, for example, I am rural and I do know that a lot of the solutions to this I think you're, absolutely right. The nature is our ally and that's a great line, and it's very true, and so what I want to ask you is to to stay in touch with us.

F

That is all the individual whatever and see how we can come to a point where we can be instruments of change so because, if you just say do this and do this, it may not happen, but we we're all about changing the bylaws I believe, and you know we want to work with that and be successful. So I mean it's not just your group, but you have great ideas, and this is something to move forward with so I want to.

F

Thank you and I want to you to see that we want to partner with you on that. Okay.

B

Super and we are partnering with other groups to it's.

F

Part of this okay yeah. Thank you very much.

A

Sanok Thank.

G

You mr. chair, through you thank presentation. If you could go to slide 39, that's the one on the polyculture, hydroseeding and I. Just wondered like it says that it's some basically like a prototype experiment for the Oak, Street community garden and verge, is that is that the Boulevard between the sidewalk and the road like? Can you explain what that is and what type of seeds like if has polyculture hydroseeding? Is that like vegetable sees or is that pollinator seeding and what does that all mean? Okay,.

B

So right now we are going back and forth around this one sowing that with the city I, think operations mark a really lovely guy on site and a few days ago and he's very receptive to he was very receptive to not planting grass, so the orchard is going in then the trail is being built so along this section of the community garden in the orchard, wanted to not have grass. So there was going to be seeding of grass along that area.

B

Instead of grass, we asked for a meadow and we would plant it ourselves and just to not Hydra seed. Just came back to us saying still need one meter on each side that is hydrant we've seen it with normal grass, and so we want to go back and the concern there is that large or tall things will flop on the paths that make citizens unhappy.

B

So another option is to go with really low mix and the low mix could be considered. You know some of them are considered weeds right now in people's normal lawns, like prunella Vogue Paris, which is a medicinal herb, which is actually a very good ground cover, there's centers that are very low, clovers there's so there's different, very low species like that. That could be seen it there instead and that would still not because normal grass is very invasive and it'll go down into the meadow and it needs to be mowed regularly.

B

This mix wouldn't or another option is an echo lawn. They call it which it gets a maximum of three four inches high and it looks like a flowing carpet and it doesn't need to be moaned. If you don't mind it looking like a little flowing carpet, so an alternative to normal grass, which is going to turn brown in the summer anyway. So that's the mix that we're asking can we do, and it's just permission to do it.

B

It's not even for the city to funding is permission to not have grass hydro, seeded and the commitment omocha Street to care for it. Yeah.

G

That's a good explanation there for so I just learned something new things so.

B

The grass right now is more culture. Monoculture is never healthy, polycultures. Some could be some more native or less aggressive, grasses and sedges and other plants.

G

Alright, thank you and my session is, for then the pitter two slides above it so 37 and 36. So were these I know that ones in my district were the other pictures of front lawn Gardens? Would you say they were all sort of like around downtown around here or were they all over the place? Where were those pictures taken I would.

B

Say in the suburbs, are those challenging range I'm out in the suburbs and I was just in despair being out there? The one this one is in my neighborhood and there's only maybe three of us that have completely converted our front lawns out there most of them are are in this central area. There are some interesting ones over near the Senior Center in that area of town, but it's still pretty limited in the more outlying and I.

B

Think it's partly that I, larger lawns I know people driving by my yard, we'll stop and talk, and they kind of liked the idea, but they find it intimidating, which is why, as master gardeners, we're building up the support to help them say. Okay, you can help you do this. We know it's hard like that, like a big intimate anything to start but and then I guess the city featuring them as well as saying hey, look, we want you guys doing this having the city.

B

That's you know just the city support, saying and maybe linking from this any page to the wild scaping saying, say: hey, there is an option and there is support for you guys.

A

Okay, councillor Neill.

C

And a couple I'm happy to hear you're edible trees are soon to be planted, edible trees and actually is a motion that passed unanimously at counts. Oh six or seven years ago, and we also G just passed, thankfully roadside, while wildflowers for boulevards a pilot study along Sir John a for next summer. Hopefully it it will be proved a success. Are you aware of either of those things that council have passed unanimously?

C

B

I know the animal policy because we're taking advantage of it for in Lakeside and I'm, helping with oak screen as well. I was not aware that you had passed one for the wild side versions, sure Johnny. So that's great to hear yeah and.

C

C

Apologize bylaws and yard bylaws is: are there some specific bylaws you've looked at that? You would like to make recommendations to this committee to consider and I asked that, because I have a neighbor who received a threatening notice for what I thought was quite a beautiful, perennial garden.

B

There are examples of natural lands in that natural landscape bylaws out there. There are different formats. Different cities, I've taken some of like permission, which to me seems like a whole lot of admin, burden, verses, a bylaw that just says a natural landscape and defines what that is so that it doesn't I know, there's concern about.

B

We just a we'd, Mon I, think some education of by law offices would be good and maybe some content that we can help with to give to neighbors that be complaining about it, because this does goes to education in that the people that are used to those monoculture lawns are gonna, be concerned, so I think there's a combination. So I can point you to some bylaws that are out there and as examples of natural ones. Thank.

C

You I borrowed two that an excellent president.

A

Okay, I actually have a question because you didn't say you brought it up twice and to me it may be one of the areas where a new bylaw would be easily implemented and also very beneficial. So let's I would like to you to talk more about the two-stroke engines and the reason that your claim, which I agree with that it is extremely polluting. Even though it's a small engine as much as a large vehicle going coast-to-coast, and maybe you could tell us a little bit more of the technical reason for that.

B

Reason for that they've got no controls on there, they're very old technology, the type of engine that they are and so I don't know much more than that. I know some cities have banned them. A montreal has been phasing them out, washing had a huge campaign to ban them and I know they cause like they actually cause ear damage the blowers. But it's like an it's an old technology. That's not been monitored because it's a small engine but I don't know in the details. Well,.

A

What I read recently is part of the emission is in aerosol form from these engines, because they they have a very simple set up very few moving parts, and so some of the fuel just shoots out the exhaust on unag nighted, and so it's so it's Eris aerosol fuel going into the atmosphere as well, which which is even more detrimental than than than the exhaust as of that combination. But for that reason, anyways I will look into that.

A

One item myself and consult with colleagues and see if, if maybe a either a ban or a regulation regarding two-stroke engines needs to be looked at and and just ask that you keep an eye on on this committees, agendas to see. If maybe something comes forward in the future, and then you could come in and tell us some more about it. Thank.

H

You for your presentation.

A

Okay, thank you. So our next delegation also I believe, has a presentation on the screen. Astrid mashaallah is talking to us about supporting green infrastructure and the Canadian organic land care standard.

I

Thank you very much, I really appreciate being here, and it feels it feels kind of sneaky I'm really tall, so I have to change the.

I

It feels kind of sikhi, but two delegations on the same subject: more or less we're colleagues and I'm here to talk about the bigger picture and and how we can do more do more at a city level.

I

I'm, a landscaper I'm, a certified, organic land care, professional and I work with three organizations: nonprofits regeneration, Canada soul, the organic land care Society of organic urban land care and Canadian organic growers. What we all have in common is a mission to work with nature, not against it in a sustainable, but even a regenerative way. Sustainable is maintaining. Where we're at that's not good enough. We need to ramp it up, bring down more carbon.

I

This, unfortunately, on my screen is impossible to see but I'm here to address nature as our living green infrastructure years ago. We didn't even talk about it. We didn't even recognize it. We didn't put value to it. Now we do green infrastructure. Ontario is a large organization, communities of belonging, and these are the reasons why we need to take care of our living green infrastructure. We are surrounded by these problems every day every year and it's just increasing the climate and mentioning climate climate crisis is threatening our land, ecosystems and food systems.

I

Many many organizations and people are working on how to reverse this, so that land uses land use is regenerative and sustains ecosystems sequestering the atmospheric carbon. At the same time, which is driving planetary planetary heating, regenerative agriculture is actually showing us how drawing down carbon from the atmosphere works, and these advances in thinking and approaches to soil and land care can be applied to horticulture and urban settings and in my work with many municipalities and companies, homeowners we're seeing these approaches.

I

Practices work because the standard, the organic land care standard has been in place since 2001. It's in its seventh edition just to review. Look at modern development processes since World War Two. These large piles of topsoil really are compacted subsoil, they're, not very efficient they're, not really living soils, they're, degraded, top soils and they're not doing the job of what we need. Our landscapes to do. It's not enough where we're at today.

I

What's expected of this site, it's going to be great at top soil, typically to 4, to 6 inches added to these landscapes, and then the homeowner is left to deal with it or a lifetime. You cannot support trees.

I

This planting site contains compacted fill a gravel screenings, concrete washout anaerobic topsoil, which is what those piles are 1 to 2 percent organic matter. Typically in a healthy soil, is 5 to 8 percent compaction levels are approaching crazy levels. This is our present topsoil specification and reality in this province planting well. What is the correct tree for this site? I see incorrect planting of trees all the time in these situations. The truth is maybe no tree is suitable for many sites, including this one, and what will the contribution of these trees be in 40 years?

I

Well, they won't be alive. The average City tree is between 12 and 17 years, very costly. Look at what we're doing we're counting on these trees for future benefits such as stormwater management, but these trees, 40 years old, they've caused a lot of infrastructure damage to the sidewalks. Are these trees going to survive not at all for trees to provide these benefits? They require sufficient soil volume, soil quality to allow them to reach to maturity, the same benefits and requirements apply to all turf and other plants.

I

Also organic matter here is the key to a fully functional soil.

I

My point to all of this is that it's easier to implement higher standards for all future development than to try and fix the past substantial changes to urban forests and soil management. Best practices are required to ensure the natural functions of soil and vegetation are included in future developments, but it doesn't mean we cannot fix certain problem areas. There are. There are other ways to get around these problem areas enter organic land care and ecological approaches, as my colleague Joyce pointed out, many of these approaches. What will what we're calling lovingly here now in Kingston?

I

This movement of wild scaping will be very effective in some of these challenging places and.

J

I

Practices, the aim is to increase and protect organic matter. The simple truth is green infrastructure depends on vegetation which depends on soil, but actually depends on the organic matter, so in green infrastructure equals organic matter, and it's all because of this soil food web. It's an interconnected cyclical loop, where everything is based on the soil, microbes that are being fed by the plants and being fed through the food chain and back a living. Soil is what brings down carbon from the atmosphere.

I

So we can solve several problems at once, using the same practices to restore sorrell soil, carbon I. Don't want to talk about that. There is no cookie cutter approach when we're looking at organic land care. You do have this presentation available to you. What can we do? Well? Sustainable urban forests, trees that are growing in their native communities, like we see in nature, encourage industrial and business landowners to do more. Naturalized landscaping protect private trees by requiring private landowners to supply it to apply for a permit to take down trees of a certain size.

I

We can eliminate or reduce synthetic fertilizers. These are inputs that are highly costly to the city and we don't need them. If we manage our soils properly, there are more best practices. This is from the City of Toronto, the, preserving and restoring healthy soil best practices. What's next well, let's adopt organic land care principles. The organic land care standard is free. On-Site on the website. I would love to leave a copy for this committee.

I

What's next I think we should start small designating when to to park spaces. We I've just learned about Sir John, a McDonnell Boulevard, that's wonderful! Maybe we can do some more training is really needed. This is a new way of thinking. If we are looking at improving our soils, we need to look at soil differently. It's not inert, it's not chemical, it's not just physical, it's biological!

I

There's! The organic horticulture specialists that many municipalities are sending Park staff to they can do it online. They can do it in the classroom. Kingston is offering a course in January it's 14 weeks. It's a credit course and it's very much a foundation course for all organic land care practices, sending city staff to the.

A

I

A

And a half minutes so.

I

Ok, so here's my point: indigenous knowledge, leadership and practices with their millennia of ecosystem experience and understanding will be critical to long-term solutions, and some of the change that has to happen now is about ecosystems, moving from an extractive relationship to a reciprocal one, working with nature rather than against it. Thank you. Thank.

A

You questions from members of the committee elzar Neil thank.

C

You very much I'm going to the urban forest conference that you mentioned I'm. Looking forward to that I guess.

C

Are you aware of the motion that was passed at Council recommended by this committee for the naturalization component of of Bell Bell Park, and that seven over 76% of that will be naturalized?

C

What was a former golf course? Are you aware of that? No.

I

I'm not aware of that I'm really happy to would be interested to learn what the approach will be for sure, because I think there are resources and viously you have them as them at their fingertips, but for planning foundational document. The organic land care standard is really what I think is the guiding principle that can lead us through all of these developments and that's what I wanted to bring tonight and.

C

Just a quick question: since you're a professional Williamsville is going through a lot of development right now. That's my district and a lot of the landscaping seems to be going. The way of trees in landscape boxes is that.

C

A viable option for landscaping along a busy roadway, there's.

I

A lot Knology trees in boxes, it's expensive. Those trees will never live out their lifespan, not even close, that is the reality of it, but we want trees and we want trees in very tight quarters. So in certain situations, that's what we're dealing with and there's no way around it. It's just like a farmer wanting an orchard for fruit production. They prune those trees in such a way that is actually very harmful to those trees.

I

Those trees will never live out their lifespan, but they're there to produce fruit for a short time for an intensive time, and then new trees get planets. So the reality is sometimes it's difficult and these technologies are really helping us put trees in very difficult spaces. Yeah.

K

A

Councillor Oosterhouse.

F

Thank you. Thank you for your presentation. Again, that's an excellent there's, a lot there. I know you can go on for a while. So if there is anything else you wanted to say, I would like to know what that is, and one thing that comes to my mind. A lot is even as my own family embarks on that journey of making organic land care and I live in the country.

F

You know, but you know, I'm, less and less concerned about a manicured lawn but much more concerned about birds and butterflies and nature and and really trying to put it in practice. But many people are, you know or can't, be good at so many things, and you can leave us in the dust very quickly with your level of knowledge. So is there going to be not just courses? What would you put on seminars- and you know training, or what do you confor the common people to do something you know and to educate?

F

You know further us and get us along that pathway to benefit our community. How could how could that happen? Thank.

I

You for your questions and calm and as a Master Gardener like Joyce, that's one of our missions is to provide education to the community at large, and my specialty is soil. Health and.

I

So every opportunity we get we're doing that. What I would love to see, though, is on a more professional basis, perhaps with parks people having lunch and learns or choosing landscapes where we can highlight and just start spreading the word and looking at best practice. What did we try here? What did we try at Bell Park, or are we trying it in the boulevard? How can we apply that to other landscapes? These are very brief, but powerful moments that we can have they're more organized I know they happen in different cities.

I

One thing I'd like to point out, though witness said, is there anything else, I'd like to say the the the word organic scares a lot of people, and sometimes we say ecological Landcare or we have ecological landscape, design, ecological approaches to landscape maintenance.

I

The word ecological seems to be more trendy, especially in Ontario, but the word organic is legislated. We do have standards and it does mean a lot and that's what I think is the missing piece for a lot of people. We just don't understand what that actually means and how it differs from conventional land care.

I

So that's the education piece but of course, a home gardener who wants a pretty garden, isn't going to listen to me talk about those things, but it is an important distinction to make on the ground for those of us who are working in that way.

A

G

Authentic nature, thanks so much for this soon, so when we were talking about, for instance, the soil and it's not very good to grow trees in you know like in new subdivisions that sort of thing I know that the Toronto Star a few years ago, they had a lot of articles about that and I think the restriction was the building code like the builders will build to the building code and they don't have to change the type of soil. That is there. Do you know of any cities right now that are doing it right? That.

I

Is associate mrs. Saugus Mississauga, leading the charge more or less Victoria Barry.

I

Those are the most progressive communities right now: okay, there's a lot of stuff happening in the GTA, because growth is going crazy, and so this is a very important subject, but Mississauga has really invested in going back to basics and fundamental principles. Here, yeah.

G

Okay, that's great in with Mississauga, that's the City of Mississauga and Peel Region in Peel Region. How did they get there? Was it Master Gardeners? Do you know that really at.

I

That church, we well at Master Gardeners, so much as organic land care, the Society of organic urban land care has been doing work and fortunately, one of the leaders in the city of Toronto in in the innovation dissin office with parks. Toronto did do the order, get organic, horticulture specialist course, and she just ran with it and started putting teams together and now they even have, because it's a Union environment. They even have created an exam for those Union Parks employees who want to work more ecologically more organically.

I

They have to prepare to write an exam which sets them apart as a distinct specialty of horticulture or gardening, so lead hand gardeners, they can apply to do this exam, and so the city has been building teams like that, and the same has been happening in Mississauga.

A

D

Through you, just following up what councillor Gustav was mentioning the opportunity for training for people. Is there like a Master, Gardener, collective in town, I? Guess it's one of those I have a few questions, but that's one like is their network and like a website where people who know nothing about gardening could go to and say these are the people I made contact to get more information.

I

Essentially, it's the Society of organic urban land care website that has regional forums.

I

The master gardeners are really an a development through the Ministry of Agriculture Food and Rural Affairs to work directly with homeowners in place of extension office, work that used to happen in the field and so we're we're trained to work with homeowners and home landscapes. But this is above and beyond organic land care at this level is a real specialty and the Society of organic urban land care is really the hub and the website is becoming much more educational in nature.

I

There are resources, that's one of the biggest challenges to all towns and cities across Canada is where to source materials that will meet the specifications that we need to support the kinds of landscapes we're talking about, and so more III was just spending half a day with tomlinson and talking about this very issue where all of us working in this area are really aware of the shortfalls and what we need to do better, but unless there is a demand on the the end-user from the end-user, we're not going to change these things, and so my work as a professional I I find I'm doing at least 60% education.

I

I

So I would suggest the Society of organic urban land care. It's organic land care dot, see a website.

A

Ok, I have a question. This is. This is a very big thing that you're talking about.

E

A

Is requires a certain level of knowledge of biology that perhaps the average citizen will never be able to inspire, and that may be what you struggle with I know. I know what you mean when, when I talk about as a nurse when I talk with patients about health issues times, you know and got to keep it really simple, because they don't have the background that I have so. But that's not the basis of my question. I have a very specific question, so you may or may not know Kingston in a strategic plan.

A

In 2015 we implemented a called double the tree canopy by 2025, so in 2015 they did account of the urban trees on city property, and the idea was to plant that many again by 2025, so 10 years to plant roughly 30,000 trees according to the count that they did. So that's the way it was interpreted. It was very general, I wrote it so I was written generally on purpose and I'm happy that staff is working in in that direction.

A

So we have here several members of senior staff that are that are directly involved with that work and that planning and I would ask we're almost at the halfway point. It seems from your presentation that if we really wanted to double the canopy, we're gonna we're losing a lot of trees based on the poor quality of the soil that they're being planted in and I would add. My question is: what specifically, do you have to say to the senior staff here present to help them achieve that goal by 2025 we're almost halfway there?

A

Would we look at the soil? Do we look at changing the specific guidelines of a what builders, what soil they have to put down and then, whatever trees get planted, have a better chance? Is that what you would say that? Could you elaborate on that yeah.

I

Absolutely I mean tree planting in and of itself.

I

There are right ways to do it in wrong ways and I see contractors all the time being paid by the unit and not by the quality of the tree planting. So a tree gets plunked in a hole that is just barely big enough to hold its root ball. It's in a cage. The cage is not removed.

I

The burlap, if there's burlap the burlap snot removed, there's, maybe an inch or less between the hole and the root ball. And then it's mounted up like a volcano with this is the absolute wrong way to plant a tree and there's not there's going to be guaranteed. Nothing but trouble from that. So I, don't know how the trees are being planted. I would hope not like that, but unfortunately I see that too often.

I

So it's not just the method, but also we all know about right, place right plant, choosing the right trees but trees grow in communities. They grow in the taller. We're missing the really tall big trees in our canopies and I. Looked at the count. We are woefully low on oak trees in the city, for example. We need that green corridor across the country and is through the big trees, so we're missing those big trees, but those trees often live with understory trees that work together with them in sourcing fertility, nutrients macro and micronutrients.

I

They share water. They they share disease suppression and so the small understory trees are missing and then the shrub trees are missing. So really trees should be planted in Islands and not as isolated beings alone in the world to fend for themselves, and we asked so much of them. Oh.

A

So improve the quality of the soil, but also would through legislation but also change the practice of sort of one tree, every 55 feet or whatever the yard frontage is and go more into clustering, the trees so that they can actually support each other. Like.

I

Islands, which.

A

We probably do in part in parks, but even in parks were probably spacing them out quite a bit, so so coals are together and and different types, like you say, the understory and the and the shrubs and everything so more mimicking the natural environment, yeah.

I

So maples are very classically growing in that kind of environment, whereas an oak is more of a solitary, lone savanna type. Well, our White Oaks and our red oaks are typically. There are lots of other Oaks that aren't like that, but so yeah it's the way these landscapes are planted it. It will definitely save in work and expense down the road it pays.

I

It just pays perhaps.

A

We can have the companying counselor kneel on that trip to the urban conference to maybe get member of staff at least get that information as well. We can't go on all night, unfortunately, so I guess we'll have to leave it there, but thank you very much. We did learn something today and hopefully you'll stay in touch. Thank.

I

A

Well, the good news is, there is really only two items business, so that's where we are now. We will move to seven a which is winter maintenance policy. There's a report from Transportation and Public Works and there's also a recommendation for our consideration and, if passed, it will go to Council. So we'll ask staff to introduce the report and then we'll go to this item.

H

Thank you to the chair. This report is to update the public works. Winter maintenance policy policy outlines winter manian service levels for the various winter maintenance activities of Public Works performs.

H

While this policy is a standalone city policy, it is based on the Ontario minimum maintenance standards regulations under the Municipal Act, which establishes maintenance standards for municipal roadways in Ontario.

H

Many of the maintenance service levels are based on Road classification, which is determined by the speed limit of the roadway, as well as the traffic volumes where class, 1 or class 2 Road would receive a higher level of service than class 3 for flex. The city does not have a class 1, but we have several class twos and we have every other class two to six.

H

The previous versions of the policy and the minimum maintenance standard included items like went winter roadway patrol to observe road conditions during and prior to winter, storm weather monitoring, so Public Works has a value-added weather service to provide regular, consistent in in-depth forecasts, as well as roadway, snow accumulation, management and ice formation on roadways. The recent update to the minimum maintenance standards took a big swing to the winner. We are the winter maintenance activities that required, if you adopt a minimum maintenance standards and I'll just touch on some of the the key points.

H

But there is an option now available to the cities of Public. Works can declare a significant weather event, so the levels of service are based on your average or above average winter storm event, but oftentimes. We we experience, storms that are you know, significantly more snow accumulation or freezing rain than an average or slightly above average storm. So the declaration allows us to declare the significant weather event, which essentially puts a pause on the time response to the levels of service. It doesn't mean that we stop performing the the maintenance activities.

H

We still do that and then, at the end of the storm event, we would release the declaration and the times would kick in for a level of service response. All the minimum meanest answers also includes cycle lane, snow removal and ice conditions. Public Works has performed maintenance on cycle lanes in the past, but this policy change identifies specific standards that will follow for cycle lanes in the city and the minimum maintenance standards.

H

Another big change that was implemented was snow accumulation and icy sidewalks, which should have very little impact on the city, as our policy has included sidewalk maintenance in the winter for over 15 years. The standards in the minimum maintenance standards for sidewalks pretty much mirror what the city standards have been for a long period of time. So again we don't anticipate a lot of much of an impact to us on that regard.

H

Another addition is sidewalk, winter patrol, which is similar to the previous requirement for roadway patrol in the winters. Public Works has determined representative sidewalks that we would drive on the adjacent roadway. We would inspect the sidewalks, which would give us an indication of what we're experiencing on those sidewalks. We probably are experiencing on many sidewalks in that neighborhood and that would allow us to make decisions on responses for sidewalk plows for plowing and salting or sanding.

H

So, essentially, that's my brief on the report be happy to answer any questions. It.

A

Is I did read this report with interest because there is some new things here and hopefully we can at least get our heads around all the new items, with our questions we'll go to members of the committee. After that remember, the public also have a chance to ask questions: go ahead, counselor Ralph.

F

Mr. chair and thanks for their presentation bill, it's always good to hear this and I guess the context of my question does not anything specific I've experienced two winters as a councillor and I've really appreciated the? Maybe it's new. Maybe it's not the interaction we get to have with I think it was you, but maybe it be someone else now. You know giving us updates and progress reports and I found it very informative and educational about how how how we were handling our road conditions and I guess.

F

One question is: is that going to continue, then the rural? Is there something within here embedded? That is this a big change for you is my second question for for four rows. Is there something in here Am I? Am I hearing what I think I'm hearing is that you, you will have different priorities at different times, so that could mean I can expect less like you know how we'd get calls at different times right of the roads that seem to have been forgotten and in the countryside.

F

That's quite quite a lot in my opinion, but you know it's about, but certainly sounds like a lot. Sometimes so I guess I'm wondering if you can sort of address that a little bit will. Will you be able to say well, we haven't gotten to those roads because of the this proclamation of a weather system or something like that so, which is part of fact, I realize we have priorities so I guess my context is most of all my view and my position as a councillor and how I hear from my Pires addenda.

F

As this may be just sort of steel status quo, but with few more details, yes,.

H

Through you through the chair, firstly, yes, we do plan to continue the council updates for storm events during storms, just to provide some sort of indication or where we act with our storm response and as far as Road winter maintenance, there is no change. There's been no change to the road classifications or priorities are still the same oftentimes we get similar feedback from the public when's.

H

My road gonna be completed because the road did I Drive up, wasn't plowed, but when I get to a main road, it is, but that all comes down to the road classification system in the prioritization. But to answer your question, there is no change. It's basically status quo for roads.

F

Thanks, that's good to hear I mean I. Think I know that I do understand and completely read that the best efforts are made. So that's an understood so we'll still have the GPS and you'll be able to find out, or your staff will be able to find out if, if for somehow, they just forgot a road and they'll get back there. That's that all that all just continues is as good good management.

H

Absolutely yeah I'm, not gonna, tell you that we don't miss roads, it absolutely happens, but we do have GPS to monitor that those situations and we try to get back to those areas as quick as possible. Just.

A

Adored it thank.

D

You and through you, have a bunch of questions thanks for the report, it was really appeals. I also appreciate it, keeping to the minimum maintenance standard, because I think the minimum standard is not something that we should aim for and but in the new regulations coming down the line you you mentioned that sidewalk monitoring is such a new thing and so patrolling the sidewalks. Is there are there some? Can you explain more what the rules and regulations are because I would imagine.

D

Our residents are probably a very good patrollers of sidewalks and we would communicate with us regarding that I'm not saying that that's sufficient enough, but how do those that kind of feedback from people using the sides works? How does that count.

H

Through you, the chair, so yeah, it is a challenging change to the minimum maintenance standards. The regulation has been called the minimum maintenance standards since its inception. This revision is only minimum ADA standards by title. Every reference in the document has maintenance standards. I think the committee that put that work together has realized that it's not necessarily a minimum standard and often the city kingston standard is above that and in actuality in practice. We find that we are above that standard quite regularly.

H

Yes, calls from the public for sidewalk or roadway or pathway. Maintenance are common during the winter, and especially during a significant snow accumulation, but often times by the time that call comes through it's too late for the operation in that neighborhood.

H

So the road nor the sidewalk patrol should help us identify situations that we may not have been aware of in the case where it may be. A sidewalk was missed where there be value for public safety will be after a storm event and we've plowed, and perhaps somebody is placed snow on the sidewalk after the plows, went by and we're not aware of that or late late winter season, where we have a warm day and some snow melts and waters on the sidewalk and freezes at night.

H

So this patrol mechanism should allow us to to monitor them and capture a lot of those and then assign resources and.

D

Do we keep tab open, for example, do we have data from last year that where we could anticipate icing of of sidewalks for this year, coming, for example, I.

H

Have to say, unfortunately, no it's every winter is a little different. Every storm is a little different, so we're prepared with our materials and our equipment and patrols, just an opportunity to have a somebody. A competent person take a look at what's the existing conditions, our document that and then report that for response, if needed, can.

D

Have a few more questions: okay, thanks and do we prioritize around schools and certain areas, certain businesses, so.

H

Sidewalk prioritization is based on sidewalks, with high pedestrian traffic or sidewalks adjacent to arterial roads that there's no specific prioritization around schools. There's 50 some schools in the city and it's a challenge to pick what school you prioritize I would say without speaking for another Department but I know through actor transportation master plan. We are looking for active routes to school and that'll, be included in that discussion and will be winter maintenance.

D

A

J

You so first one it's it's referenced throughout the report, but I just don't know if I'm not making the connection or what the what the challenge is for me. But anyway, so we have the standards for sidewalks, walkway and walkways, and then the standards for bus stops am I correct that the bus stops are not changed by the ministry standards that those are based on that there isn't it change there. Yes,.

H

The the regulation has no mention of bus, stop winter maintenance, so bus stop winter. Maintenance is solely a city, Kingston Public, Works winter maintenance policy. So.

J

Those levels are, it does say that those are the Public Works levels that are determined here and then are they related to the sidewalk clearing in the area. I'm just curious like in practice how that works. So.

H

We review that you know the best. We can sidewalks are hand shoveled or we use a piece of equipment like a small loader, sidewalk plows travel, you know, point-to-point block the block much quicker than we crew can move bus, stop bus stop! So it's unfortunate. We can't necessarily time every bus stop clearing with the adjacent sidewalk clearing, but it is certainly a factor when we look at the routes. Okay,.

J

And just one more question: so the the walkway section, the.

J

Does this include like I know, we've talked a number of us heard in the suburban areas, the city that there are walkways that are not I said like they're, not where they wouldn't be high pedestrian routes, but they are connectors. So they connect one little cluster of houses or subdivision to another those kinds of walkways. If they, where are they prioritized and well, essentially, are they going to be done at some point, because I think what I?

J

What I've heard is that in the past they weren't maintained by the city and I'm, just not sure where we are with maintaining overall maintenance of those walkways that are that are like not very high pedestrian use and.

H

So after the hi pedestrian News priorities, our operation break breaks into zones and we'd have a snow plow, allowing all the sidewalks in that neighborhood and that would include the connecting walkways as long as the walkway is able to be plowed with a sidewalk bow and it kind of looks multi-hit beside them. They are a fair size and there's some walkways that just don't have the width out loud to travel down the walkway, but if they do, they are included with the sidewalk clearing. You.

J

Last one, so then, for those that don't meet that with requirement, then are they so we're not currently maintaining them? But if there was a concern resident had a concern. What what should we do? Should we essentially say they won't be maintained because the equipment doesn't sit there or like well. This is more a question for a commissioner hit a kid I'm sure as well, but like, if we're not currently doing that, is there any plan to do that in the future.

H

So yeah, that's something we consider for sure we're also looking at other equipment that could be purchased to plow those walkways when a sidewalk machine is assigned to a route, it's important that it can follow the whole route. So we are considering what can be done in the future, but there are currently walkways that just are not maintained in the wintertime similar to some sidewalks that may dead-end or they don't have a destination point. So we do have those conditions where they're just simply not maintained, but we certainly want to consider those in the future.

H

I don't have a plan. I can share with you today on those.

A

Counts, I think.

L

Through the through the chair just to to supplement Bill's response to that, that's correct so where we have walkways that we're currently not maintaining. There is no plan at this time to begin maintenance on them and, as he's indicated, it's usually there they're either not suitable for mechanical equipment, and we can. We don't have the resources to go down and hand on them or they dead-end someplace like at a school and we've.

L

We've got a few of those in in the West End neighborhoods, and so, ideally, over the course of the the active walk to school planning that is being done through the transportation group. Those routes would be identified that there still may be some that we that we simply can't maintain during the winter, but we're hoping to identify safe routes to school and, as bill has indicated, we will incorporate many winter maintenance standards into those routes.

J

This is a very tiny little question, so I'm I wonder if so currently some of those routes are being maintained by residents who go out. There's a Good, Samaritan and clean it with a shovel or something like that. Would it would it make sense for us to incorporate like find a way to recognize that or encourage that in the future. I guess, as part of if it's already happening, I'm just curious, how we might.

L

Through the chair we do, we do have quite a few spaces like that where, where their maintenance, sometimes we only find out about them when somebody is no longer able to do it and then and then the maintenance on them stop. Sadly, and we we get the same thing with some with some Boulevard cutting and things like that, but we don't have a formal program to be able to recognize them, but certainly anytime. We do become aware.

L

We always if we're out and about we're always talking to to residents in the area and- and we are grateful- it would be a really nice world if everybody chipped in and did their part.

A

Councillor Sanok.

G

Thank you, your mr. chair, so building on what councillor Holland was just saying. It is true that there's walkways that I heard about during the election and then when I sat down with you mr.

G

Lennon, in December, like we went over some of them, I think it would be good for us as councillors to get a list of which walkways like connectors, can't be maintained so that we can go back to the residents, like wit, Avenue, sorry crust with present Woodside Drive, whichever ones and all the ones that councillor homeland obviously has concerns about, and all the districts, probably if we could get a list so that we could then present that his winters coming up and the excuse last year was that it was just after the election, and we still had like so many things on the go.

G

But this winter like we really have to go back and follow up with everybody. And if we could present this list and give the reasons like you were saying, because if they're just not wide enough for mechanical means, then at least the expectation management's not there, because what we heard during the election is that the city's not doing it right and maybe there's a walkway that the city should be doing. That's just been overlooked, and that is wide enough for the city to do. But it would be good to have this list.

H

Through the chair, so yes, that is something that we identified. Public works this summer did a complete inventory on all the walkways in the city. So we now have data on the width length types of surface, because we also it's difficult to plow a gravel surface walkway.

H

So now we have that data and we're compiling the list of walkways and sidewalks where they might dead-end, or there might be various reasons why we can't actually plow it I, wouldn't want to suggest that we'll have it available before the start of the winter, but we are actively working on it right now. Thank.

G

You um my next question, is I also heard during the election on a few streets and Hayden the district that we're always the last Street to be done so I'm just wondering if public works like for the zones better out there. Do you always start with the same Street and always end with the lake.

G

The last Street so last year are all the same streets going to be started on first and the streets that were last to be done last year will be less this year or can Public Works change it up so that a street doesn't feel like they're, always the last Street once they're arterioles are done once the bus stop certain right, so I'm just talking about the presence and the courts you know can can Public Works change it up through.

H

The chair, yes, that's a practical thing to do. Our plow routes are a map and we, the plow operator, would start at the closest point from where they're coming from whether it's city yard or Creek for yard. But we have received concerns about that. So we we are winter maintenance training is now telling our operators that, if you start here, it's also important the next storm to maybe start in the other end of that zone are on that route. So we do try and monitor that.

H

But it's it's certainly it's in the training now, but our operators like many, are creatures of habit, and there are reasons for starting at certain points versus others just for our efficiencies. But we are looking at that as well. I.

G

Know that for the construction that right now is being done in front of Lancaster Drive, that I've already been starting to get a lot of emails of concerns from residents looking at how the snow is going to be removed in front of the to school phone lancaster, dr lancaster, public, school and mother teresa.

G

So I just wanted to make the point since we're talking about the snow removal plan that people are gonna, be watching that really carefully and what planning department told me to told the people which I have is that you know when the planning application went through. It gets circulated to all the departments, one being public works, and they can. You know they assured planning department that there was a snow removal plan in place.

G

I just wanted to raise that that, like over the last week, have already had two emails asking me how snow is gonna be removed in front of there. So that's just a warning. I have a question about. If it's really true is the more the first snowfall of the year. That's the most slippery is that we find because the roads are still kind of warm from like the summer and ice freezes up mostly.

H

Through the chair, we have a temperature row temperature, so ground temperature and air temperature would play a factor in that. So we get a wet snow and there's a reasonably warm ground temperature. The snow can pack onto the road surface quickly once the ground is frozen, that bond is less likely, but that's why we apply the anti-icing liquid on our arterial roads, especially early season winter and late season, to try and avoid that situation. That can't happen.

G

Thank you and my last question is just when you know how we have the bylaw: that's no parking on the roads from December 1st until April 1st and some people have complained to us that, as you know, that that's too excessive that other cities say that some like they can park on the roads as long as the city hasn't given an alert that there's a snow fall. If we looked at doing that on, you wouldn't recommend it right.

G

A

That subject so I'll allow the question, but I don't want us to spend half an hour on that particular thing, because it's not on the agenda. I.

L

Think I'll take that one through the chair, I I, do realize that that's a question that gets posed fairly regularly. It's not something we recommend. It's been brought before committee before when we were looking at the on street programs. Other cities do have it.

L

Usually we hear about Montreal and and Ottawa primarily, if we're continually trying to find ways to work with our residents in terms of on street parking, whether it's summer or winter and I, think we're struggling right now, even with with a non winter program in terms of vehicles and it's, it seems to be a constant battle between neighbors with cars parked on their Street and cars, not parked on their Street and so at this particular time. That is not on our work plan to look at changing that by law.

A

Council meal thank.

C

You I share since that councillor Daugherty expressed about snow removal not being a clear priority, or at least a level two priority, our own schools.

C

My district has Rideau public school, but many of my residents go to Winston Churchill, and the chair also shares those two schools and the number of cars that drop kids off and I know that we're trying to address that with our walk to school program.

C

But if I was a parent and there was no sidewalk that my child could walk on, I'd be driving them to school as well the otherwise. The option is they're walking on the road and I really strongly think that that should be a policy that we we look at and review. I've had this conversation annually in.

A

Essence from you: yes,.

C

When this reports and I'm wondering if the opportunity for you to review that policy,.

L

Through the chair again, the the we can review a policy, but that would be a significant shift and the reason that the priorities are established. The way they are is we look at the high volume, sidewalks and sidewalks that are adjacent to the high volume roads. That's because that's the least safe place if you do have to take the road. So if you were on a residential local street and the sidewalk isn't cleared and you're and you're you're forced to walk along the roadway, that's a safer situation, then a higher speed, higher volume traffic road.

L

So so that would be one one concern that we have it. It does seem counterintuitive and- and we don't disagree, but that's why we have finally an active transportation plan that has an implementation plan and it is going to take a while. But those that you know everything in the active transportation plan is prioritizing, that safe, walk to school and neighborhood, planning and I.

L

Think it's going to be through that process that we're going to be able to learn how we're going to be able to make it more safe for our children to get to school, to get across intersections and to reduce some of the habit that has built over the years with parents driving their kids to school and dropping them off and that's happening throughout the school year. Not just in the wintertime.

C

And I'm glad you brought rotation in your comments, I'm curious about and perhaps.

C

You can respond to how the, but do we have a commitment to plow bike lanes, because increasingly people are using their bikes year-round and how are we dealing with the bollards? Are they easily removed for snow removal or I know Hamilton removes them, puts them back in what between storm situations? Could you comment on that.

H

So the Bullards are the technology used is allows us to install anchors in the roadway and remove the Bullards in the winter months and then reinstall them into those anchors in the summer or in the spring, so that bike lanes can be plowed right to the curb line by the plow. That's plowing, the street. One of the challenges with bike lanes is: there's a lot of streets with very limited snow storage between the curb and the sidewalk or zero snow storage.

H

So Public Works is looking at and to do more snow removal physically removing the snow from the street in those psycho lanes and that's included in that process is additional equipment. In our 15 year, capital plan to purchase the proper equipment to increase that snow removal.

C

Thank you. I know this will be the first year, so it's it'll be interesting to see how it's dealt with. Thank you.

A

So a little bit of a recap, just in the form of a question you mentioned at the very beginning of the minimum standards coming from the province, provincial, the legislative change, and then our policy is the what we see here in Exhibit A, so I'm gonna go through a couple of sections and I just I'm, just looking for a yes, you know if I could be wrong about the sections that are new like the new things so going through, and it says this isn't exhaustive this. This is just the things that I've noticed.

A

So if it's not new, correct.

E

A

On the second page number three patrol and monitoring, we now have a sidewalk patrol three point: three which is new. Is that correct? Then we've always had the rule, but now we have had walked patrol for where we're monitoring the sidewalks, that's new, that's correct! Yes, okay and then the new is a significant weather event declaration, that's also new. That's.

H

Correct, okay and.

A

Then, over the page number six bicycle lanes. We now have specific standards in those tables that you see there for bicycle lanes. That's new, that's new as well! Yes and.

H

A

Okay, that's all I noticed that was significant and new. There's probably other few minor thing there. Anything else significant in this policy for us to consider that is, that is brand new. Now.

H

Those are the major changes to the policy. A lot of that maintenance work was previously performed by Public Works to some degree, if this just formalizes our work and then sets clear standards. Okay, great.

A

So that gets us the same page. So we know what, when we passed this, if we pass this and recommend it to council that what it's with those new items added I had a couple, some more minor questions. First one is the KMP trail and then the pan, the pathways through various parks, the paved pathways through parks, some of which are full 3-meter multi-use pathways. Some are smaller.

A

How do they fit into the sidewalk plowing and priorities.

H

The trails and the multi-use paths we look at the multi-use path on Bath Road. We don't use a sidewalk plow for that. It's wide enough for a pickup truck with a plow, so we have several pickup trucks with plows that plow parking lots in some of our city parks that are open for the winter and we've added at the multi-use path to one of those routes. The existing trail system like KP, trail oftentimes. It would be plowed with a sidewalk plow and a meter and a half width and then part of our storm cleanup.

H

We would do a second pass and follow the width to three meters. If that's the width of the the the trail and.

A

It's like Victoria Park, City Park that have the path with the high pedestrian pathways going through the parks they also sort of Velma list with the residential sidewalks are a part of a route or how does that work?.

H

Well, the main pathways through many of the Park City Park Victoria Park, are included in the sidewalk plow map and the same priority as the adjacent sidewalks. Not every pathway in every Park is this Bob some are gravel and they work. They wouldn't be plowed, but the main pathways through those parks are so.

A

She's sort of like what councillor Holland was describing with these connectors that are, if we were, if citizens want them, plowed they're gonna have to get their shovels out or their snowblowers, because I know even in City Park, there's pathways that can't be plowed by a sidewalk and and usually art.

A

My other question is about the prior are just general priorities, so we've got three tables in this, and only one is new, the one for bicycle lanes, so we have the road service standards and I'm just talking about the time frame, which is the last column, so if I create so they each of these is Sigma is altered significantly because of the winter event declaration. That last column refers to the time frame after the end of the significant winter event right, which is something that we can declare.

A

So if it's snows for 24 hours, the event is Environment Canada that says the snow. The warning the snowfall warning is ended and that's when the time that clock starts ticking for these tables. Yes,.

H

So three, the regulation in order to declare significant weather events, certain criteria have to be met, and that is a reference to Environment Canada's weather hazards list, which is significant, but it includes several winter type. Events, significant freezing rain, significant snow accumulation. So when Environment Canada issues that warning that's a trigger where a municipality may, if they wish to declare a significant winter event, and when that happens then, yes, the time frame in that column would then be put upon pause until the end of the declaration. And then those times would kick in right.

A

So that's sort of the the implication of declaring the significant weather event from your standpoint is it gives you that time frame to get the operations underway and you have these minimum standards with these time frames to to comply so on those time frames, you'll notice that the one for the roads is in in descending order for our six hours, 12 hours and then unmaintained, and then for the bike lanes. It's eight hours, 12 hours, 24 hours on maintain, so that's double the the window and then for sidewalks. It's 24 at 48 and 72.

A

So is that sort of over frankness is in the policy. But is that a reflection of the actual order that we do? The winter control like we start with the roads and the arterioles are prioritized? And then the collectors I know that there is sidewalk clearing underway before the road clearing is finished, but is there sort of a sequential nature of the operations like to start with roads and then go to the sidewalks, then go to the bus shelters? Or is that just the time frames to be like that? But it doesn't really reflect operations.

A

H

Our practice at the start of a storm is to assign plow trucks to roadways, sidewalks on sidewalk balls as well as bus stops, so we'll have crews assigned to each of those at the start of the storm or when there's enough accumulation to warrant snow removal. So it's.

E

H

A situation where we plow roads first and then we move the sidewalks were simultaneously performing winter maintenance and all those all the infrastructure really.

A

But there wouldn't be, and then the final question is: if this timeframe expires and there's say like who is it that I mean? Obviously you strive to make the standards, but if the standards aren't met, what are the consequences.

H

Yeah, we would measure that and we'd say we met X percentage of the winter storm events and we met our levels service, our history and Public Works is they were pretty close to 100% the situations where nod could include storm after storm. So if we haven't gone through all the roads or sidewalks and then another storm starts, then we basically look back to our priorities for arterioles and sidewalks, roads, etc and oftentimes. In those cases we haven't got to the some of the call, the sax or the sidewalks on some of those local roads.

H

So in those cases that's an overlapping storm, so we would identify it as we didn't meet the first storm service levels, but we had to restart our timing because of the next storm. So as far as consequences, it's more just for information purposes to allow us to determine what we need to do in the future. To avoid missing those service levels. Suppose.

A

If there was ever a shin, because minimum standard wasn't met, that could be admissible as evidence in a in a lawsuit. But that's not something that you would see on the operations side. Probably.

L

Mr. chair, this is my sort of first venture into minimum maintenance standards, I've understood our winter or winter policy for for a few years because of the transit operations. But there's a couple of things that I think would be helpful if I clarified them so you're, absolutely correct. The origin of minimum maintenance standards were were developed by the province many years ago. When the province started, to download highways and municipalities, we're saying how do we defend ourselves against claims, and so they created these standards and that they are?

L

You know, they're developed by a lot of lawyers and there's insurance experts and and municipalities that participate and they're reviewed every five years, and the review of five years is generally based on claimed experience that they look at and they go back to it. So the standards themselves were created essentially to say: if a municipality, it follows these standards and can document has documented and demonstrates them.

L

It does give a legal defense in in a claim situation over the years, they've gotten significantly better as through experience and things like that, and so these timeframes in in the church that you're looking at are right from the standards and they are indicated they indicate the timeframe by which, after the end of an event, so whatever the weather event is that's the timeline by which you strive to have that service level completed this time in the review.

L

The new piece is the ability to click, to declare a significant weather event and that's the ability then, for you know if we have like a very lengthy storm and we can't get off the arterials or whatever, and if we can't meet these standards, it's the ability for us to communicate to the community that we're declaring a significant event. It is an it is an opportunity to say to people if you don't need to travel, I mean you know, use use, particular caution because we're not able to keep up and then it's as bill said.

L

Then it essentially pauses our obligation to meet these and then the event declaration is is repealed and then we go back to trying to meet these timelines as we go. So in many ways our operation does follow these, but it's not it's not. You know, concurrent they're, they're, overlapping things, I think that's probably the biggest change. We we had this ability last year, I, don't believe we used it last year once once we used it.

L

So it just depends on the duration of the storm and the nature of the storm, but it, but it does give us the ability to let the members of the public and people traveling through our area know that we have a significant event and we're not able to meet these levels and therefore, travel is more risky.

A

Thank you, that's very I'm sure the council's here will know, then, if there is a significant event declared by the city, that's also a significant political event for us, because we will be fielding. The calls and the questions great I feel like we've covered most of the report. Are there any other questions before we go to members of the public? Okay members in public have a chance to ask questions or make comment on the report and the recommendation.

M

Thank mr. chair, so thanks to stop for the report and the answers and to the committee for great research and questions, so I've got 11 questions, I'm, not sure if we get through the ball, but I'm gonna rip them up so I'm going to start off by saying that I've noticed a significant improvement in City staffs work on winter maintenance control in the last few years. So praise for that. Thank you.

M

You've got a lot of specifics in here, but didn't see anything on precisely how you define the severity of the winter events, whether it's a minor average above average or significant. Do you have a table that you've studied or come up with on that?

M

Obviously you've got a lot of winter complexities as to how the events can combine with each other or whatever, but say a certain amount of snow. Is that significant or is it above average, or so you see where I'm going on that my father was a meteorologist for part of his career. So when I asked her whether question he could answer it, okay.

M

Next question I know that in the past, you've had issues with the winter maintenance vehicles breaking down right. It's gonna happen.

M

They get used a lot lot of skill to use them and so forth, and there's been a shortage of backups, so I'm wondering if you've addressed that shortage, do you have backup vehicles standing by if the vehicles you're using are breaking down?

M

Okay, next question is: do you organize the citizen? Complaints by electoral district I know there's been variants in district over the years ago. The area around Queens campus was left for like a week or ten days because we were on campus. Queens did their part, but the areas close to campus were just left, because you know no students around. So a lot of complaints about that.

M

How much contracting oat does this department do over the course of an average winter? You had your staff be able to handle certain things than you contract out. Perhaps the rural areas or certain districts? Do you have major events happening so do you got chart that K?

M

Is this winter? That's coming? Is it going to be the first one under the new guidelines or the second one? It's not exactly clear in the report on that.

M

The South causeway is a federal bridge. Right and I. Know in the past has been issues on say where the city's maintenance ends on to the west end of the causeway and where the federal maintenance starts. So it's with a narrow, sidewalk there and getting it through there like it's entirely ice I've seen it so I'm just wondering if you've addressed that specifically on next one I think is very significant. The downtown transfer point in the winter becomes very heavily used.

M

People use buses more when the weather's bad and there's a lot of buses going through there. There's a lot of people using the system and there's a lot of sidewalk traffic and a lot of vehicle traffic right.

M

So I've seen snow piled up right next to bus stops and it's very narrow, sidewalk there, and it's not a slope and social quit slippery. So I'm wondering if you have looked at the downtown transfer point civically and you actually studied it to see. If you can find ways to make that better, because it is important.

M

Okay: okay, thanks! Oh.

M

I'm, just looking at on page five last paragraph you sit as a new small-bore attachment was approved, the 2019 budget. This is for the bike lanes so has that been acquired. Yet for this winter, hoping in house I think what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna write up the other ones, but that's that's a good selection there and looking forward to seeing the improved work shown in this just wanders maintenance. Thank you.

A

Thank you, seeing no other members of the public staff has a chance to respond to the questions. Of course, any questions outside the scope of the report are not necessarily obligatory. Go ahead.

H

Through the chair, so I'll do my best to answer every question asked as far as fleet goes for backup vehicles. We have 29 Road, plow trucks, 16 sidewalk machines, and if we have the available staff resources to put somebody in each one of them, we will in those situations we don't have an active backup. If we don't have enough staff to fill all 29 plows, then there would be a plow available for backup.

H

We have mechanic staff, they work 24/7 when required to keep the equipment running. But plowing is tough on trucks and equipment, it's in coldest weather conditions and it is kind of a reality of what we do, but we do try and keep them maintained, serviced and back on the road as quick as possible.

H

As far as complaints from the public for during the winter storm event, we would look at the nature of the complaint if we know that we're in that neighborhood with our equipment, we'll look at our GPS technology and if we know we're there or we're going to be a night shift oftentimes we would a night shift could be through that neighborhood.

H

Before we get the service request in the morning or before we get a chance to look at it, but in the cases where somebody says their street was missed or sidewalk was missed, that is, some supervisor would put eyes on that and determine if additional resources are required. So hopefully that answers that question.

H

As far as the minimum mainland standard revision, it was revised in 2018, so this policy reflects those changes. The public works did practice those changes to that regulation. Last winter.

H

There was a lot of things that we wanted to try to determine how we could meet some of those standard changes and we were able to do that and then apply it to this policy moving forward the LaSalle causeway, although it is a federal jurisdiction, the city does plow the street, the road and the sidewalk and across the entire causeway, and then these far as a transfer point. Yes, so during a heavy snow accumulation winter event, snow piles do collect on the sidewalk area or jason-2 bus stops. We, it is a priority.

H

The round cage, kgh, downtown transfer, point Market, Square or snow removal priorities. When we move the blower's downtown to remove snow, we also have equipment that is dedicated to the downtown area, and that includes the transfer point. One of the challenges and one of the things we're mindful of- is to not have equipment doing a lot of forward and reversing movements during peak times during the day.

H

So most of that work happens at night, so you would potentially see snow piles during a storm or recently after a storm, but typically we would focus on clearing those out on the next night shift, and so hopefully that answers that question. As far as the snowblower goes, we have not received that snow blower, so I anticipated bein up. We won't have it for the start of winter. We do own two snow blowers, the city does, so our focus for cycle lanes will be using those blowers, as well as a regular snow removal.

H

So when we expand, we expect to be performing snow removal on nightshift much more frequently than we have in the past and is to adjust the snow removal required for the cycling policy change and then I'll just pass it over to Sheila. For the contract, you know, question.

L

Mr. chair, the we contract, the east side of the city and and some of the major arterials into the rural area we used to contract the the bus stops in the and the city, central and the west end. Until last year we brought we brought that service in-house, but I wanted to answer this question because it's really important.

L

We rely on the contracted service because we can have them hit the ground. At the same time, we can so we can get more people want more workers on the ground addressing across the city. Then, if then, if we just had in-house access, so it's really important and- and that manages well and the contractor doesn't just decide when they're going to plow they that has to be triggered by a city manager in the Public Works area.

A

Thank you so now we move to the recommendation that we need a mover and a seconder for it. Let's see it in the package.

A

Yeah, so that the EIT P committee recommended council that council adopt the revised Public Works winter maintenance policy is presented in exhibit a of report. 1901 o remover by councillor Neill, signed by councillor Doherty. Any comments, debate, council house.

F

Just didn't one more quick question: it got answered mr. Dixon, a question had a question was a good question about contracting out. Did I miss that and it's not an option. You talk about, requires additional record-keeping or increased staffing and equipment and obviously those are yellow lights. You know it's going to cost us more to to meet the minimums, which is the point here as well. So I guess I'm wondering we haven't really had we nailed the costs down and is contracting out an option.

L

Through the chair, yes, I'm afraid you did miss that actually that's okay, so we do contract out. We contract out the arterial roads in the rural area. We contract, sidewalk, snow clearing in the east and and the roads in the east and bus stops and the rest of the services are primarily provided in-house. The reason that we contract is is one for cost, but also because we can have more workforce available to tackle the storm all at the same time, rather than the tiered effect that we get.

L

When you see the standards, for you know, arterioles down to local roads.

A

Did you have anything else to say you can also have.

F

Doing do we have an ID where the costing is going and the increase there's that separate? Well, when will we see the effects of the increase.

L

Through the chair, I'm not sure what increase we're referring to well.

F

This minimum standard is, it says that requires increased staffing and equipment.

L

Thank you. The increased staffing and equipment will be primarily the addition to to be able to do the sidewalk patrolling and the additional snow clearing standards that are required primarily for cycling lanes. So it's really. It's not really a contractor issue for.

C

L

To be, those increases will be coming within the city's own budget and we partly in equipment and partly with some man-hours thanks.

A

So I'm guessing a 2020 budget, then we'll find out what the exact amount of the Public Works kwinto control budget will be at your a vo, we'll be able to look at that.

L

That is correct. It Xia broken out. Just as winter does our budget we are our staff perform winter control. They met parks maintenance, all of the things that they do so you won't necessarily see it that way it's built in, but mr. linen has been pretty creative in trying to to manage staff and and looking at routes, and so we've tried to keep it so that it's as manageable as possible. I.

A

Mean any other councillors wish to speak California.

C

If you could confirm- and this may be for the benefit of new counselors- we, if I, unless the policy has changed, we have a winter control budget which, if we don't spend it all in the year, it goes into a reserve so that in future years, when we have more storms, we don't have to take a wrench in our budget. Is that accurate.

L

There, actually that's not the way we do it. Some communities do that. What we do is we budget for our average winter expectation and if, if in fact, there was a surplus at the end of the year, it would be shown as a surplus in our budget. If we need, if we go over budget, then we have a contribution from the working fund reserve to offset that by policy.

A

Thank you. You know all right before I vote. I just wanted to say it's an asset counselors I'll. Just just has the chair of the committee that we appreciate the work. That's gone into this revised policy and we would understand some of the new changes may requires some adjustable by staff and and and of course, our patience with those adjustments, especially, for example, the cycling lanes and how to clear those and get the snow.

A

Removal done in a timely fashion seems to be a bit of a conundrum by my reading of the report, so I and I'm understanding I understand. That is something we're kind of at a bit of an unknown right now, because we don't know how much snow we're gonna get and how much for how much of a pickle we could get in with that snow removal. So I just wanted to say that before we vote that I appreciate the work that's going into it and I agree with the public comment that it has improved recently.

A

That said, I guess I'll call the question, and this and one else wants to speak. Okay, all those in favor. All those opposed okay that passes. Thank you very much. Our second of order of business is an informational report. Questions from the committee will be in order. We'll ask that's an it's a report from the president. Ceo of utilities, Kingston and you'll, see it it's the Kingston biosolids and biogas master plan, mister heat.

K

Through the chair, if I could just take a couple minutes to touch on a few highlights of the report, I would appreciate that and any questions that the committee might have mr. Lucas, who is sitting here beside me, who did the vast majority of the heavy lifting on this file, wrote the report. Mr. McClatchy also have some involvement and heather roberts from solid waste I'd say were the.

E

K

Group, but now in here really did most of the work and I'm sure he'd be happy to answer any questions. So just just a couple comments at the start. First off I would like to say this is I'd, say a very different type of project that we are looking at here. I think it's a very interesting one. It's something that I personally have had an interest in for probably about 20 years, since we became involved with the sewage system for the city of Kingston. I.

K

Think that's something that could be quite exciting for the City of Kingston I say the city of kinks are not saying the cooperation I'm saying the community, but also for the corporation in the City of Kingston and utilities Kingston. So.

E

K

A very, very, very high level what.

E

We're looking at here.

K

Is taking part of the sewage treatment process, so the wave is you plant as as an example where, during that process, in big tanks, I'm gonna try to keep this quite simple, where the the solid part of the sewage sits near the end of the process? Produces gas bruce's methane for years and I'm going back many many years ago. This would have been burnt off, I've been flared off.

K

We use it or have used it, for you know, process heat heating, the facilities and, more recently we do have a small Kochan unit at Ravens view that we use it for, but it's really moving beyond that and not just taking the amount of gas that would normally be produced, but actually try to enhance the production of gas, so you're getting more gas out of it, and one of the things that we are looking at is taking the organics and adding to it to produce more gas, then cleaning the gas that it's produced and looking at possibly injecting this back into our natural gas distribution system.

K

So that has a number of benefits, number one you don't have to buy it either. In the States or out west, you don't have to transport it. It is viewed as being I believe green natural gas is one of the terms for it and there are some very distinct value for that. So that's that's. At an extremely high level, I'm not going to go into the details of the report. It looks at a number of different options. We have been working at this since 2017 as I said.

K

We've actually talked about it for a number of years. Before that we've looked at a number of different scenarios, which facility would we possibly do it at? Would we look at starting a process?

K

Got a standalone facility talk to both the organics, adding to that looking at possibly increasing the amount of organics that we have and one of the things that's not touched on this report, but it's kind of always better vision of my is. If you could actually make this happen, then can we look at Nappanee, Rockville Belleville other places to bring in both the sludge and the organics as well, because you know, in addition to it being I, think a very, very good environmental project.

K

I think it could also be a very good economic development program project when you look at bringing those two things together, I think is actually pretty key so and I think I'm gonna leave it at that. I could ramble on about this all the evenings instead of something we're excited about, but open up for questions. One thing I do want to point out. This is a work in progress. This is not a final report. One of the reasons that we are here tonight is that mr.

K

Lucas and his team are going to embark on a process for getting public input into it. So we wanted the committee and council to be aware of what we are doing before we go down that road. We have suggested some possible viable options or preferred options, but I do want to point out, as we continue on with this. There may be others that come out I, wouldn't sort of jump off and say yes, this is what we're looking at for sure.

K

The other thing is, we have giving you rough to other estimates again, that's rough to all their estimates. They need to be be refined more, but one of the exciting things is and I'm kind of repeating myself I realized. We do believe that there is a business case for this if all the stars in line here so with that I, don't think I'll make any more comments, but we'd be happy to answer any questions. Thank.

A

You keep in mind this is an information report, we're not voting on this tonight and this kind of a preliminary report. But questions are in order so that we can understand the process, go ahead, counselor, Dougherty and then councilman.

D

Thank you, so I have a couple. What you would call high-level questions and then one one detailed question so I think this sounds really fantastic. What will what will it take to make it happen? And what could the potential best-case scenario timeframe be?.

K

When you started I thought these were gonna, be easy questions so, but but very valid questions. Well, what will it take to make it happen? I think, initially, the will of this committee, the will of counsel the will of the community, because we are going into a public process to get comments for this, and you know I haven't done this for many many years. You have you have projects that sound, really good.

K

They look good from a number of different aspects, but you can get a different perspective from from the public, so I think I think that will will be one I would say as we further refine this and the dollars get better refine there, there will be a financial side to it as well. As I said it looks promising at this point.

K

At certain points it did not look promising, I think as long as that continues on I think there's a good chance that it will happen in one form or another I guess what you know kind of what is the the best I'm gonna say the best possible outcome unless I think it's positive from environmental aspect as I talked about and also positive from a business case, aspect and I think it is one of these things if it again could all come together, we'll put Kingston in a very positive light.

K

You know you go back to some of the goals of the city. You know most sustainable city in the country that type of thing that I think it could be a good plus a lot.

D

Also has to frame like how long would something like this take to I.

K

Apologize I miss that hey I would say it's going to take years.

K

It's kind of difficult to say that right at the moment, if I think, if something like this could be in place and operating in five years, that would be very positive. I, don't think that's out of the question, but I think that would be a push to make that happen. I don't know well. Do you want to add to that? Yes,.

N

If I could add to that currently there's a real move with the Ministry of Environment conservation in parks. There's a group called the Ontario water consortium which I sit in on a button number of meetings and there's been discussions with ME CP.

N

Streamlining the process there's a number of approvals that will be needed, which can't be done until a detailed design is complete.

N

So if the move is positive, Stratford is going through this process slightly differently than us, but they're they're about to do embark on construction, I believe they're, they're, really forging ahead to help the rest of us and the province be able to expedite our processes, and you know I think Jim's right in saying five years. But if this happens it could be two to three years and in terms of in terms of the value I mean.

N

If you look at the table of net present values and we talked with sort of separated, organics simply Kingston's are separated, organics realistically and speaking with Heather Roberts. There is a potential to be able to easily double the amount that we have now from 4,000 tonnes to 8,000 tonnes, which makes a break even at the worst case scenario, to a positive 18 million dollars. Net present value.

D

And that's a via reportage I, just don't and and I think that's what you were just referring to that kind of calculation, the difference between the cataract or eBay 800. If four hundred four thousand tonnes versus the 8,000 tons and then and the net present value range, really jumps like from 12.5 million to 2.5 million. And so could you just explain that like it did we don't because I don't understand it.

N

Jared what these numbers represent so with the 4000 tons, that's a negative, twelve and a half million. So it's a really not a viable payback in the worst case scenario, to a positive breakeven scenario million dollars here. They're. A lot of this is based on a couple of scenarios, and the price of this renewable natural gas that can be obtained is really the key to it, as well as the amount of money that we could make from the tipping fees for the organics.

N

And so that's that's where the the range, if we double the amount of organics from four to eight thousand, it becomes a they break even to a really good news story and that's a based on 20-year payback thanks.

A

Sorry, just looking at the table, the third column biogas at fifty seven percent methane meters, cubed that that whole line there you'll see the numbers going up, but the capital costs are the same, a Cataraqui Bay right. So so that's higher volume and then the range there is dependent on the price and, as you said, the tipping revenue and.

N

The amount of gas that is actually produced by adding the additional organics- yes.

A

So the the range of the type of gas that you could the.

N

Yield that you might get and right now, the the analysis was based on what we currently are producing, which is about 57 percent methane content in order to make it renewable natural gas for pipeline injection, we have to basically make it 99.9%, methane and, and so there's roughly within the costs of all of the ones where we're looking at these, it's about a two and a half million dollar investment. To do that.

A

So Kelter Neil, what's first 10, counts for now.

F

Thank You mr. chair and thanks for the report, I I echo councillor, dougherty's, questions and I think this is fantastic. It's really not my wheelhouse to I'm very, very familiar with this. Was there a change then in the technology would cogent also be an increase, or this the green gas option will is that going to be in you know your future technology, obviously you're making you're weighing out which one /, which one will be more cost-effective, so, whether we produce electricity or whether we put green gas? How did you decide that do.

N

You know thank you. The current cogent unit that was installed in the 2006 to 2009 upgrade has about five years worth of realistic life left in her puzzle. At the end of that realistic life, do we put in another unit? Do we put in a fuel cell? Do we put in something different right now with the price of electricity? What it is, the actual benefit is not there from cogent.

N

In fact, we can optimize and increase the life of that cogent if we simply use it for electrical peak shaving, which means we're gonna, have even more gas to do something with, and that's where the concept of creating this clean gas and just to put it in perspective. So the current price for natural gas in the pipeline is between five and six dollars.

N

A Giga dual Fortis BC just signed a contract with Stratford for their gas and they're, paying $27 a gigajoule a four times four to five times increase the value of nitrous because they have a mandate in British Columbia for renewable natural gas. Now not a molecule of gas will make it there, but they will get the carbon credits for that part of the the next phase in this master plan process will be to work with the public and to work with Council and say what do we want to do with this gas?

N

Because you can see that last column in that table that I've been referring to it talks about the amount the percent of the natural gas would be as as compared to what we currently bring into the city, and it's it's not significant, but it.

E

Is significant.

N

When we start thinking, could we use this and say it's all being used for city facilities and all the city or or how many ever the city's facilities could be fueled by renewable natural gas?

N

Another real benefit from this is using it as transportation fuel. There's a lot of transports on the 401 currently that are running on natural gas. They are looking for converting to and buying renewable natural gas.

N

There would be some logistics involved with that and it might not be injecting in a pipeline or it might be putting it into a truck and taking it to the natural gas fueling station that they put in the Flying J in Nappanee. So there there is a huge benefit from a transportation sector to convert to something that is carbon neutral.

F

Fantastic I'm just thrilled to hear this and hope that it can be forward. Did you say so Stratford? Is there a mr. Polly in Ontario that where the green gas is now or we wanted the first to get it this far in the design in the concept stage, so.

N

Stratford is is probably one step ahead of us.

A

N

Working with the innovation branch at Ministry of Environment to basically test the waters, because we are dealing with a number of approvals, but not only with the wastewater treatment plant if we cited there, but also with the waste management regulation with the air and noise regulation, Environmental Protection, Act traffic, and so that's where the real time frame- and we, when we started this two years ago, took the approach that, where we're gonna have to go through these approvals, there was a great opportunity with the cap-and-trade program of money coming in that could fund this.

N

That died. But this this is not going to die. The clean fuel standard of the Government of Canada is coming in. We're gonna have to me to the other place where there's currently, an active effort to buy is in Quebec that they have their natural gas standards and there's a certain percentage that they're seeking to get as renewable natural gas within their the gas system in Quebec. So there's at least two markets and California is always out there.

N

F

Its must a fantastic work, keep it up. Thank you.

A

That's or near.

C

Thank you. A couple of questions you mentioned carbon neutral.

C

Is that how close to carbon neutral is the product at the end of this process and how and does that carbon neutral label include all of the all of the preparation to get to that product and I'll explain why I had an interesting conversation with somebody who's, an energy environmentalist approach, and his feeling was that that biogas is the bridge to where we need to get to to 2050, but eventually we need everything on an electrical grid with with renewable, green energy, solar and and wind and I'm just curious.

C

Whether we see this as a bridge to that 2050 target like how, if we're still burning fuel, how can it be carbon neutral.

N

So from a carbon neutral perspective, if you think about the only carbon that is going into this is organic material that comes out of our bodies or comes out of waste food, or so that's where, even when the cap-and-trade program in California is cap and trade program, if it's from an organic source where you're generating this gas material, then you don't pay carbon credits on that, you don't have to buy carbon credits for, and so that's where it sits, carbon neutral.

N

The other way the process can be even better is more than beneficial, where it can actually be a carbon sink is taking organic material that we heard earlier that you know possibly used on farm fields. If we take farm waste and put it into these digesters, then we're actually taking material. That's otherwise going to sit in the field and rot has an create methane, which is 37 times more potent of the greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. That is a huge benefit to actually reducing the carbon as far as a bridge to the future.

N

Yes, it's a bridge to the future, but it also can be the future because there is processes out there, where they're, taking they're taking pipeline gas and basically converting it into hydrogen and capturing this carbon dioxide and using it in an injection into into deep wells.

N

So again there. There is an example where, if we're creating this gas and then it gets further processed into pure hydrogen and right now, there is work being done in Canada to look at increasing the opportunity to inject pure hydrogen into the natural gas pipes, because we already got the infrastructure in place, it will still burn. It will burn as clean as as the methane and the County of Leeds in England is looking at going a hundred percent hydrogen with their natural gases and they're doing it on a piecemeal basis.

N

So there is, the hydrogen economy may soon, certainly rival the electric economy in 20 years, 30 years. If.

K

I could just add to that so I would say. Yes, it's a bridge, the future that we don't know and just having spent the last couple days in Toronto at a conference talking about what the future of energy is, the the the one thing I came away from. That was realizing that there has been more changes in the last six months and there probably has been in the last 60 years from an electrical perspective. The other comment, and although my background is electricity, the idea that we're gonna replace all fossil fuels with electricity.

K

The India infrastructure in this continent is just nowhere near capable of doing that. So I go to the comment about the future. There are the things that that are going to be discovered, we're gonna have to discover, and it just it may it makes me a little nervous but I think we're looking at electrification of Transportation, which is great, but the electrification of everything.

K

The the whole way that we look at the electric grid would have to completely change, and there were some numbers that were provided as the amount of energy in the province. Now that's electricity in the amount, that's natural gas and I. Think natural gas is like double: what's currently there for electricity, so just you would basically triple the electrical infrastructure. So that's a long-winded this. This is a step to the future of which we're not really sure what it's gonna be I.

C

Look forward more about this and attending the bubble. State you have planned the one other thing that I think is is a positive potential. Positive, for this is that right now we're using a an awful lot of very viable farmland to produce corn and other products for ethanol production and when we're living in a world, perhaps North America were blessed with having not having a food shortage, but in a world that has a food shortage, the idea of converting potential food to two F ethanol for for gas doesn't seem the best use of farmland.

C

A

A fascinating comment: it's not the subject of this report, unfortunately, and it is getting late any other questions about the report about the biogas.

A

Oh Seneca, hey.

G

When we go see mess with the public and whatnot, would there be any smell associated with doing this? That neighborhoods, you know, would be upset with.

N

Yes, but we are engineers and certainly any any location will have to have strict controls. You know and and I dealt with Ravens view where we have neighbors right on our fence line, and we have to be very conscious very cognizant of the impacts, and you know co-locating organics receiving facility. We know what nor Tara you know. Tomlinson's facility has caused out there and that's that is a composting facility. It's not a bio solid.

N

However I mean you come out to Ravens view. You come over to cataract wee-bey with the odor controls that are in place at the wastewater treatment plants that it is clearly demonstrated. There is an ability to control the odors through mechanical means, and that's really what would have to happen.

G

Think and then would we be able to pick up more garden waste like you know how right now, we can't really use the green bins for garden waste. It's only supposed to be food. So with this we could use garden waste as well, and maybe this would like we could pitch it to the public that we could. You know, like start doing garden. Waste pickup right at everyone's driveways, like is that a good spin that would be beneficial to the community.

N

It's not like we would. Yes, we could process the organics. It doesn't really matter what the organics are, but certainly we would have to be very careful about the recipe I think here of there's a facility on Disko Road in Toronto, where they basically take in the Toronto's source, separate organics from the residential area and they're, creating gas and they're making electricity with that.

N

Another facility is its storm Fisher in London Ontario, where they are currently making 2.7 megawatts of electricity with their facility and and but they're, simply taking in dry, our food waste from off spec foods, recalls from health, Brewers waste, etc. So they've got they've got a recipe there. Their facility is is happy the microorganisms that are in the in the tanks, it's possible.

N

It's perhaps a little too optimistic, I think the other side to the leaf and yard waste. Is it currently is actually a very good organic source for mulching, and you don't need to do a lot of processing with it. You know, and certainly talking earlier with it with our master gardeners I learned of the desire to get some mulch, and so there is perhaps a better opportunity to use that in an alternate way and I. Think personally, the holistic approach that we used for this.

N

This master plan that we're undertaking is what we need to sort of spread out even further with the organics and even with our waste collection. There are processes out there where, if the government of Ontario brings in an organics ban at the landfills, how strict are they going to be? Is it going to really hit the IC I sector, where we currently don't collect in Kingston?

N

There is a huge opportunity there to look at a processing facility where you're, basically, you take and you slurry the guard and you squeeze out the organics inorganics go off the landfill and the rest we process in begin to gas and there's technologies out there right now. They can do that. Thank.

G

You and Menten I'm just to wrap things up pet waste like pet ways from dogs. Would that be part of that? Or is that totally separate? Because when I saw the word anaerobic, digester I got all excited right because that's what it takes to process like dog waste. So.

N

Right now, flush it down your toe dog waste is not a problem. What we do have a problem with is cat waste. There are microorganisms in the cat feces that cannot be treated at a wastewater treatment plant conventionally, so so from pet waste. Your dogs are fine, unfortunately, the cat, the other piece to the cat waste is they tend to put the cat litter in, which is really just clay, and I mean it's a bulking agent which does not digest.

N

It would just become a big lump in our digesters and Paul review, miss McClatchey across the way they remembers our discussions about animal waste about two years ago.

A

Sara notes have any different kinds of waste. They want to ask a question about this. Is we've lost our our audience? Somehow?

A

No other questions, though it is, it is all. Joking aside, it is a very exciting project and look forward to the next report and thank you very much.

A

That's it yeah members before we wrap up that that piece members public have a chance to make comment. Ask questions you.

M

Thank You mr. chair, thanks for much to staff for very interesting report and some fascinating discussion. I want to praise council committee as well for their research and questions does bring back some memories for me second year chemistry course. From many years ago, we looked at sort of early concepts around this, so I'm wondering if you're looking at what they're doing and saved Netherlands Germany, Denmark and Japan on this I think there may be a little bit ahead of us and they have actually something functioning. Even let mistaken.

M

M

I'm wondering what the possibility of a potential partnership with Queen's University there's a note that they have some really tremendous chemists over there. I can Michael engineers dealing with some of specialised areas. It's clear from the discussion we've had that we have enormous expertise in the room already and I want to really praise that it's a specialised area, so I just think.

M

Maybe there's somebody at Queens who might really know a lot and would really pay the city well to to try to do a project with that, maybe yet say a thesis at the PhD level or something like that. So those are my comments. I want to wish you all the best with it.

A

Toph can respond.

N

Thank You mr. chair with respect to the technology that the this has been developed that we've been looking at. This bio hydrolysis was developed in France, and so it's it certainly is being utilized there, and you know we certainly are tapping in wherever we can to any of the technologies that are out there. I am actually very pleased to say that the Queen's research is. Is it's a great opportunity we have previously when we were finishing up the project at Raven's?

N

You did a research project where we were looking at the adding fats, oils and grease to our digesters, which is still quite a potential opportunity here, which might dovetail nicely in with this organics to further increase the gas production and provide an outlet for for waste. So I do a lot of work with dr. Pascal champagne, on that there was a number of theses that were produced. The PhD Chen Sealy was one of the ones that comes to mind because she's she was quite memorable done a lot of projects.

N

We are also currently undertaking another research project to optimise the digester startup and further improve the operation of the digesters and there's a a master he's. Currently a master's student Allen Chang, the Heron all from Mexico, is doing the work on that we under dr. Pascal champagne again, and he is looking at furthering his research at a PhD level, to look at the organics edition, so I'm glad to say that we're embarking on that already. So thank you.

A

That's great, thank you very much all right. The only thing left on the agenda is: we've got no motions or notices motion, but there's an item for other business and understand councillor Neill, wanted to. Let us know about a motion to council vacations to the active transportation master plan. Yes,.

C

We have a motion, that's going to be on the agenda that we get tomorrow night. It's regarding active transportation, camping opportunity at Lake, Ontario Park. As you may be aware, we closed the campground Oh a couple of years ago, and this is a recommendation that came forward. The current the chair of this committee seconded that motion and so I'm looking forward to it coming to Council next week.

C

Originally, the motion was to come here, but it's one of those awkward motions that actually belongs in three different apart: three different umbrella groups, admin services, EW or parks, because it engages all of those mandates. So this was at the recommendation of senior staff that we bring it directly to Council so that it doesn't get bounced around other committees. So if anybody has any questions regarding that motion feel free to call me or email me. Thank you.

A

So that'll be on the October agenda. Is a motion to council? Yes,.

C

Next week,.

A

So noted any other other business okay. So then we have correspondent. There's an item of correspondence in your package about Kingston Transit from mr. Dixon have a chance to read that, and our next meeting is not until December 10th, hopefully won't have a significant winter weather event by then and are looking for a motion to adjourn councillor Dougherty can throw stuff off all those in favor meeting is adjourned. Thank you very much.